June 27, 2023 • 41 mins
What does sustainability have to do with creativity?
My discussion with Mardi Lee, an eco-living facilitator, uncovers that there are more parallels between creativity and sustainability than you may initially think.
In this episode we discuss mindset, resourcefulness, incremental change and why everyone needs creativity in their lives.
Mardi also shares some tips on how to kickstart the journey to living a more eco-friendly lifestyle.
Happy listening!
xo Abi
Ps. For more information about this episode and our guest, head to: https://crispcomms.co/podcast-episodes/what-does-sustainability-have-to-do-with-creativity/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hello and welcome to Creativity (00:00):
Uncovered. My name is Abigail Gatling and I'm on a journey
(00:11):
to uncover how everyday people find inspiration, get inventive and open their imagination.
Basically, I want to find out how people find creative solutions for home, work, play and
everything in between. And my goal for this podcast is that by the end of it, you'll be
armed with a whole suite of tried and tested ways to summon creativity the next time that
(00:35):
you need it.
Now today I'm speaking to Mardi Lee. Mardi is an eco-living facilitator from Newcastle,
New South Wales and she empowers people to live a more simple and sustainable lifestyle.
And you may be wondering what the link is between sustainability and creativity. And
(00:57):
that's really the joy of this podcast because we don't know until we start talking about
it. And the more we can uncover it in all these different places, the more people will
be able to identify with it and identify creativity in their own lives. So let's do that in this
conversation. Welcome Mardi.
Oh, hello Abi.
(01:17):
Now before we start, I should actually point out that Mardi has actually gone to the Newcastle
Library and hired a podcasting studio so she can have this chat today. What a legend.
Thank you. I feel very special being in the podcast library at Newcastle Libraries. It's
a relatively new space and it feels great.
(01:39):
Yes. And you know, how very eco-friendly of you as well to use one of these public resources.
Yeah, that's exactly right. And the library is one of those first places of sustainability.
We've always had it there to borrow things and it's so good that it's come up with the
times and we can borrow things like a podcast studio.
(01:59):
Yeah, so great. I mean, it means that you don't have to invest in, you know, like a microphone
or lighting or anything like that that you may only use once or twice. That's great.
Yeah, sure is.
Yes. So that's great. Great that you're putting your money where your mouth is. So it's a good way
to start off this conversation. But let's go back a tiny little bit. You're an eco-living
(02:22):
facilitator and what is that and what does that include?
As a facilitator, I like to help empower our community to live sustainably every day. And
so what does that include? Well, luckily, since the easing of COVID restrictions, it
includes running workshops for our local community and sharing stories, the people as well. And
(02:48):
so the sharing of the stories can be like, I like to talk to our community and share
that either on social media or my website or as part of the workshops also.
And what's the ultimate goal there? Like, is it to help your helping people become more
eco-friendly or like, what's the goal?
Certainly more eco-friendly, but it helps them to understand that living sustainably
(03:11):
doesn't have to be all or nothing. They don't have to be that really strong advocate being
out there as an activist that we often see in the media. The goal is to really help people
understand that living sustainably can be realistic and that we can make changes in
our own homes quite easily.
Yeah, absolutely. So it's about incrementally making changes to be more sustainable.
(03:38):
Yeah, that's exactly right. And the incremental changes are about what we're starting with,
what we're really good at and what takes our fancy and what we're strong at doing. So,
for example, I really love secondhand and pre-loved. And so that's where I started with living sustainably
is how can I incorporate that into my household.
(04:02):
And how do you do that?
Well, it all started with op shopping and I think, you know, that was...
Oh, we love it.
Yeah, I know. But this was like, op shopping in the 1980s. So I had a guide camp that I
had, I was in the Girl Guide. So I had a guide camp that I had to go on and one of the recommendations
was, you know, have some really old clothes. So I remember going to St. Vinnie's or Vincent
(04:26):
to put some Vincent DePaul in Sutherland, in Sydney in the 80s and buying a pair of
jeans for $1, tie-dying them.
Wow.
And having that as my Girl Guide camping experience. So it started then and then the op shopping
has just sort of grown from there. There was a period in my 20s, you know, where I was
(04:47):
sort of doing a bit of growing up and realisation and independence where it didn't quite happen.
But then once having children, I went back into the op shopping and I would say 100%
of my wardrobe is now either op shopped, pre-loved or I've had it for a super duper long time.
Wow. That's very impressive. Because I mean, I think firstly, I think that people probably
(05:15):
wouldn't even realise that op shopping is not only, you know, a really cool way to get
interesting pieces, but it's also sustainable.
Oh yeah.
Yeah. But also, it takes a long time to do op shopping too. I find that it takes me a
good few goes to actually find stuff that fits in suits and so I mean, you having a whole
(05:38):
wardrobe of it that's really, really impressive.
Well, I must say I do like it. So I dedicate time to do it. But also I've had that time
since being having children. So I had my first child in 2005 and I noticed that that's when
I had the time to go op shopping. I was available at times where the op shops were open. And
(06:00):
so from there, I've been able to, you know, purchase things a lot more and get more understanding
about what I actually like when I go op shopping. And I'm so I'm now really targeted with my
op shopping fashion. And it also has helped me be creative in what I actually wear as
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well like different styles that I perhaps wouldn't have chosen if I bought these brand
new.
Oh, it's like a lucky dip. I love doing that at op shops that I never buy new books. I
love to read biographies and autobiographies and I sort of see it as a challenge that every
time I go to the op shop, I just find one there and I buy it and I read it and then
(06:44):
I give it back a couple of weeks later. But it means that I'm reading about all sorts
of people that I wouldn't normally read about, you know, Rex Hunt.
Rex Hunt!
Well, I was like, "Oh, fishing." But you know, he also played AFL and was a good player.
So that's the things you learn when you op shop.
(07:05):
Well, one of my mantras is like, you never know what you can find in an op shop. And
it really helps to open your mind about what what is out there. And as I said before, things
that you wouldn't normally buy at the main retail brand new shops you can purchase at
op shops and it gives you a whole different range of experiences and knowledge.
(07:29):
Yeah. So do you show people how to do op shopping or is it kind of opening their mind to the
idea of the sort of secondhand economy?
I have been doing some op shop trails in our local area targeting areas where I know there's
a string of op shops available. And so I help people, you know, say the advantages of op
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shopping, give a little bit of history about the op shopping as well and give them some
really hot tips. Like if you're after women's wear, don't just look in the women's department,
look in the men's department as well, because the op shop volunteers don't always know if
that item of clothing is originally intended for a male or female audience.
(08:12):
Yes. And also look in the sleepwear that that's my tip for people is that you can get some
really lovely little silk dresses and things like that in the sleepwear. People don't know
that it's sleepwear, you know, and you can also customize it. So that's good.
Yeah. Yeah. And so on your website as well, you have a bunch of resources showing how
(08:36):
people can become sustainable in other ways. And what really struck me about that is that
it's about getting into this resourceful mindset, it seems. So it's all about using waste in
different ways. Tell me a little bit about that because that seems to be...
(08:59):
something that people might need some coaching on.
Well, let me start with resourcefulness because it's only with reflection and time where I've
discovered that I've actually been resourceful my whole life. I think it started when I was
younger with my own family. I'm a child of the 70s and so I grew up in the 80s and the
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80s was very much a period of huge commercialisation and everything had to be big and extravagant.
However, my family when I grew up in Sydney was not that way inclined and so everything
was really paired back and only spent on what we actually really needed. I watched play
(09:48):
school when I was at that age and the thing that struck me the most that I really, really
wanted to do was the useful box and everything that came out of that useful box wasn't a
toy. It was something that you could find around the home and I was always really into
that. So in one way, I've always started being resourceful and then it progressed into my
(10:13):
teenage life, the resourcefulness. When it came to paper, I remember finishing high school
in the early 90s and I had these reams and reams of paper like all my study notes and
I'd written on one side and so at the end of my school life, instead of chucking it in
the recycling bin, I just got it out, flipped it over and then reused it every again and
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I think that resourcefulness thing continued into the rest of my everyday life and particularly
when I had children and knowing that when you first have children, it feels like you
can have everything that you ever needed or do you think that you ever needed but being
(10:58):
able to pair back on that was most important when I had children. Oh yeah, yeah, sorry
and I also forgot to say that because resourcefulness, I'm just sort of talking about resourcefulness
at the moment and it's a really big part of my life. Yeah, love the enthusiasm. Yeah
(11:19):
and I suppose being an early childhood teacher for 20 years as well, that is a key component
of being resourceful because we don't get things as an early childhood teacher, we don't
have enough money to go forward with things. So we needed to get as much as we can for
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free available or what was already seen as waste to be able to reuse that as well. So
often when children in preschool were doing paintings, we would be getting the engineers
or the draftsman's old padpaper or I don't know what you actually, like old plans, so
the nice big pieces of paper that were used on one side and then the children would paint
(12:05):
on the other side or things like going to Reverse Garbage in Sydney where we would purchase
what was seen as commercial industrial waste and then reuse that in different ways. So
I think all of these elements combined have led to me being resourceful in an everyday
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kind of way and to see that just because it's deemed as waste, it doesn't mean we have
to chuck it away. Yes, agreed, agreed. It seems like a lot of resourcefulness comes from necessity.
You know, like your thing, teachers are undefined, you've got to find a way to deliver your class
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in a creative way and so it's kind of born out of that. How do you deal with getting
people who have the means to be able to buy new or to live however they want to live?
How do you get them to start thinking about being more resourceful when it's not a necessity
for them? It really comes down to their want, their
(13:13):
want to be able to be resourceful regardless of how much money that they have available
to them or resources that they have available to them. And it depends on, yeah, what their
main driving force is for living sustainably because we can't be sustainable if we are
purchasing things all the time. We can use it in many other different ways.
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I suppose, yeah, it really just comes down to their own inclinations. How much they want
to have an impact upon the planet and their community without the expenditure and without
that realising that the money means that you need to live, you can live frugally even if
(14:02):
you've had got money. Yeah, yeah. Seems like there's kind of two challenges
there, right? It's the tapping into why people should be resourceful or sustainable. But
then the second part is how easy it is for them to do it in their lifestyle. I know that
whenever I'm talking to anyone about being a bit more sustainable and people are like,
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"Well, I'm just one person. How could I possibly make a difference? You need everyone to do
it to make a possible difference. So why do I even try?" Do you come across that very
often? Not very often. I suppose the people I mainly
talk to are those people who are edging on the side of they want to make a difference
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but they really don't know how. So they want those steps to go, "Well, where do I start?
What do I actually do?" And I think it is an attitude behaviour change thing. I'm not
there to change people's attitudes because there are going to always be those people
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who really don't care at all. They're at one end of their spectrum and the other end
of the spectrum are those who are highly activist and can't think of anything else.
And so I really am there for the people who are either teetering on the edge of, "Don't
know what to do. Don't know how to do it. I need a little bit of help." To those who
are feeling quite confident in already making change and they're on to the next change and
(15:32):
they're on to the next change. But do that with warmth and an open heart.
So how do you start that process with someone who's like, "I'd like to be sustainable. I'd
like to live more eco-friendly. But I'm a busy mum with five kids or I work so much.
I don't have time to go browse the secondhand markets." How do you start them on that journey?
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That would be a huge conversation of, "Okay, so if you're a busy mum and you've got lots
of kids and lunchboxes and time is a real dampener for you at the moment, what is it
that at the moment you're doing really well at? Is it perhaps you're wearing the same
outfit every day for five days in a row? Maybe that's the start to living more sustainably
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in that particular family environment. It really does depend on each person's circumstances
and what they want to change the most as well. So it's very easy for us to say, "Oh, well,
you need to walk more or you need to catch public transport more. But if that's not available
to you or accessible, then that feels like it's a far-reaching goal." So you need to
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start much, much smaller than that. It could even be as simple as how you clean your house.
Are you?
Yeah, how you clean your house. It could be, "I'm going to start with the bathroom and
I'm going to change and switch out my cleaning products. So instead of purchasing the mainstream
cleaning products which are highly toxic, it could be, "I'm starting to DIY a few cleaning
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products and I know I'm making a difference to my family and to my home as well."
Wow. Okay. So it does kind of go back to that thing we're talking about before. Incremental,
small changes is not all or nothing.
Yeah, exactly. And you can only do what you feel passionate about and what you feel strong
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about as well and making those changes and then more importantly, making it into a habit.
That's the whole thing about living sustainably. So shopping bags, grocery shopping bags have
been a really big thing in the last 20, 30 years and there's still people who can't make
a habit of taking their own shopping bags to the grocery store. So that's the habit
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formation that is key as well as people really, really have to feel a strong urge to follow
through with something in order to do it well.
Yes. And I saw on your website, you actually do have sort of instructions on how DIY, your
own sustainable shopping bag out of a T-shirt I think it was.
Yeah. Isn't that cool? That really combines like the huge textile waste problem we have
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and particularly T-shirts. I mean, we have lots of T-shirts circulating around and then
in order to make that into a grocery shopping bag and it's quite durable. Just the checkout
operators get a little bit struck by how challenging it can be to fit onto the garbage bag holder.
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But they work it out. It holds at least four litres of milk.
That's good. That's good. And I mean, this is about creativity and we sort of talked
about it. So much of creativity is a mindset and so much of sustainability is a mindset.
Another parallel I'm seeing here is that it's not all or nothing. If you don't have creativity
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in your life, it's not like you have to go out then all of a sudden become Picasso or whatever.
It's you got to start small, find opportunity to build into your life and make it a habit.
Just like you said. Yeah. That's exactly right. It has to and you have to be your own driving force
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in order for it to work. Yes. And it helps to have, I guess, people around you on that journey.
Right? Oh, absolutely. Whether it be your family, whether it be your friends who share
perhaps something that you're doing or really admire what you're doing, having that extra push
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and it could be just that, "Wow, I really love what you're doing." Or, "Gee, that's great thinking."
I mean, I had all my snap lock bags. I do still use them. There are times and places where
snap lock bags are really, really useful, particularly when you go over not hiking.
They're very lightweight and they seal up really well, but I don't throw them out.
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I actually reuse them. So I wash them out and I reuse them and they're hanging up on my clothesline,
my inside clothesline. And my mother-in-law comes up and she was like, aghast,
"You're the first person I've ever seen that has snap lock bags on their clothesline and not clothes."
But it's just those little steps that, yeah, I suppose that is a little bit creative
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and a little bit resourceful combined into one. I really find that creativity is at the
heart of sustainability. It's a really special kind of renewable resource.
I kind of love that you're merging your experience and your passion in this business.
That in itself is creative because quite often people keep their hobbies and their work
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lives very separate. Yours seems very enmeshed. I think my whole life is an enmeshment of
creativity and sustainability all up. And just like sustainability, my creativity has been
very incremental. There's been some pivotal moments, I suppose, but the older I get,
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the more I realise that I can be creative. I am creative. I just didn't realize it 30 years ago.
Okay. So what was the realization point for you? I suppose having the opportunity to let my
creativity shine through in many different ways and also having space and time. So the first
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time I realized that perhaps I thought a little bit creatively or a bit differently was again,
when I was on Mat Leave. Now, Mat Leave was a big thing for me because for my whole life,
it was either school, uni, full-time work. And then being on Mat Leave was the first time that I
(22:14):
was disconnected from work and spent my entire time at home with my new bubs and just had bubs
myself and the home to concentrate on. And so then it meant that things could start to blossom.
You could experiment with things and experiment with home decorating.
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Yeah. So just using, I was going out for walks with my new bubs and bringing home some sticks and
oh, what can I do with this? Or there was bulk waste cleanup in our area and people would throw
out things that I'd look at and go, oh, I'm sure there's something that you can do with that.
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And so it would come home with me and then it would sit on the front veranda just waiting for
that really ripe time. And then when something did happen, then I would get that external
motivation from someone else to say, wow, I would have never thought of that. That's so creative.
And so the more I did things, the more I got this external motivation from people, realizing that,
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oh, okay, I'm thinking a little bit differently from other people.
Yeah, lateral thinking is a huge part of creativity. And when we spoke the last time,
so we spoke a couple of weeks ago, that was one of the things that really struck me from our
conversation was that I think that creativity is about thinking about things a little bit differently.
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And you had sort of implied that about sustainability as well, that it's about
thinking slightly differently from I guess what the mainstream is and the usual path. Like you
said, switching out the things that you can easily buy at your local grocery store and using what you
have around the house and maybe going back to those older methods, the tried and tested methods.
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Yeah. Yeah. And I think creativity is all about thinking differently. And it's a real mix of our
own imagination, having the initiative to try something new, I suppose, having the confidence
as well, and being really open to the possibility that some things might not work and some things will.
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And then it's just that solving the problems that can happen and being able to think about those
problems in a different kind of way. Yeah. So creativity is, there's huge scope and sustainability,
it is all about thinking differently. We can't keep on living sustainably if we just follow the
(25:01):
norm all the time. There's always got to be like some kind of out of the box kind of thinking
to make progression and change happen as well. And I guess over time, it will be easier and easier.
I'm definitely seeing a trend. I'm thinking you probably don't have to think so crazily and out
(25:22):
of the box to be sustainable these days because there's more and more options available. There's
more and more information available to your fingertips as to giving you ideas on how to be
sustainable and make these little switches, including lots of tons of eco products out there as well.
But it just seems like it's all about the mindset. It just keeps coming back to the mindset to me.
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Yeah, it is the mindset and it's been having an open mind and being able to see different
perspectives on things as well. So it is that the critical thinking is really important about
living sustainably because that helps in becoming a more mindful consumer and more mindful about
what we do. But that lateral thinking about doing it differently is even more important
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as well. And just as I said before, seeing things from different perspectives.
So what is creativity to you? Creativity to me is it is all about thinking differently.
It is all about taking that different perspective and the perspective that you think is right for
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you at that time. And it's also about being curious because creativity is all about curiosity.
And just be willing to dip in and make some kind of change.
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Yeah, I love the idea of curiosity because it really is. It's kind of what if and then explore
and then find out. Yeah, yeah. That's right. And it's a beautiful word, curious or curiosity.
And also wondering, you know, to have a wonder as well and whether that means
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wondering your mind or wonder for a walk as well as what else is creativity. I suppose
creativity is about the process of doing something and it's really a very slow process
but a very rewarding process as well. So it's not necessarily... So the difference is
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I suppose play. So when I look back to me being a teacher for all those years, children play
all the time. And I think as an adult, we forget what play means and we forget how to play or our
play looks very, very differently and is prescribed by rules. Whereas I find that being creative for
(28:14):
me is all about that sense of play and having fun and just doing something for the sake of just
doing something because it is fun. And then it's from that that we can see, as I said,
from a different perspective or see with a new mind or an open and curious mind.
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Yeah. It's interesting that you mentioned children and play and how that sort of
fades out over time as you become an adult. That has come up a few times and it's...
I wonder what it is that happens throughout our journey and life that we are slowly reducing the
(28:58):
amount of spontaneous and erratic play. As adults, we just walk around on a very set track. What do
you think that is? That's a big question. Don't exaggerate the answer. I'm curious about it because
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it comes up a lot. What is happening to us and what can we do to help the next generation that
they don't lose it and have to find it? Oh, wow. I wonder if we lose that because an adult...
We become responsible. And as an adult that everything is goal focused and a goal is an
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outcome. A goal is essentially a product and then we forget that perhaps to get to that goal,
there could be different ways of going about that. It doesn't have to be this one streamlined,
must-do kind of effort. It's that process and that journey that you were talking about before
rather than the end result and the destination. I delved into the book, Julia Cameron's book,
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The Artist's Way. That was like taking a real liberty moment where I dedicated a day a week
just to explore without a map, explore without a goal and just go, "Oh, I wonder where around
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this corner..." Like I took myself for a walk around here in Newcastle one day. Just to the
whole, instead of walking from A to B, I was walking from A to potentially B but via C, D,
E, F and G in order to get to B. And that in itself just helped me clear that mind and didn't have
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that... Because you didn't have that goal. It was all about that process and it sparked a little
bit more curiosity and creativity. I was going to ask, how do you get yourself into that creative
mindset? Is it through walking like that and just giving yourself, like you said, the time and the
space to just be? The time and the space is so important but I also find that having a shower
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is one of my other places of sparking that creativity. It's not very sustainable, is it?
No. I'm like, "I want a five to ten minute shower but the offset is I don't do that every single day
but the offset is like I live sustainably in so many different other ways but I have to let my
(31:56):
creativity flow somehow." And it's like that clinging of that idea. So it could be just having
a longer shower than normal sitting outside. That's the other thing that I find really sparks
creativity is going outside, going for a walk because being outside is such a dynamic environment.
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Things change all the time, whether it be the weather or the way you go to places, things change.
Whereas when we're inside all the time, it's a very static environment. Nothing changes.
The air temperature is the same, the furniture is the same. Very controlled. Absolutely very
controlled but the more like I find that I get outside, the more I allow time and space
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to be creative and the more I allow my time to be observant about the things around me
helps delving to that creative side. I think, talking about this with my husband a couple of
months ago, that we're so busy, both of us run our own businesses and so we're always
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in a rush from one place to the other. But whenever you're taking the dog for a walk or
our nieces and nephews, you take them out for a little walk. The pace has to be slower. The dog
is sniffing every single tree, is looking at stuff, is being scared by the wind and because
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you're having to go at the same pace as your dog or the kid or whoever, is forcing you to slow down
and it's also forcing you to observe what's around you as well. You're like, "Oh, I didn't know that
house had painted their door red or did you know there was a park down that corner?" I kind of love
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it. This forced slowness has sort of opened your mind to things that you were probably too busy to
see. The time and space that you were mentioning before, I think that's exactly that, is that
you're giving, instead of being so focused on productivity and achievements and all those
sorts of things, you just give yourself the time and space to observe and just be like,
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"Huh, what happens if I do this?" Let me try that out.
Aren't dogs and kids amazing at helping you slow down?
Yes. You can't be annoyed at it either because they're so lovely and pure and so friendly.
Yeah, absolutely embracing that. Before having children, when we go traveling, my husband and I
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would, we'd be on the move all the time. We've got to see as much as we can at whatever times that
we need to be there. But having kids and going on a holiday that is like a travelling holiday
really does make you slow down, observe things, stop for a cuppa and relax a little bit more.
You probably gain that a whole lot more by being so available to the time and not seeing that time
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is pressure, but just embracing that time. Do you think that everyone needs creativity in their life?
Oh yes, everyone needs creativity in their life. My gosh, there's so much more interesting people.
If you've got a little bit of creativity, oh, if you're the person in a crowded room,
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I can pick out whether you're quite creative or not and you're the type of person that I'd love
to spend time with. Creativity makes for interesting people, interesting conversations
and makes things happen. I think everyone should embed a little bit of creativity into their life.
For extra interest. And there's also that inspiration. You might become that person
(35:57):
that someone else feels inspired by or they admire something that you actually do and maybe
that admiration is something that you've done a little bit differently.
Yeah, I love that. You never know who you're going to inspire.
You don't. And whether that's something that someone openly says that you're an inspiration
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or it's just like you've added a little part or a chapter in their story of life.
That's very sweet. I like that. I like that. And so what are some tips that you have?
I know we kind of spoken about what helps us get there towards creativity.
But what are some tips you think you can share with people if they want to start on that journey
(36:45):
and they just don't know what the first step is? Oh, I have a few tips that we might have already
touched on. Yeah. But one of them is, yeah, get outside. As much as you can, get outside. It's
a really dynamic environment. Things change all the time. Another tip would be to take an ordinary
(37:06):
habit or routine and do it a little bit differently. See what happens. Travel. Travel more. It doesn't
have to be a big travel. It doesn't have to be an overseas travel. But just get out of your home
environment because it's very easy for us to feel very comfortable in our own homes, our own communities
(37:29):
but the more that we travel, the more that it broadens our horizons and our minds. Get out and
travel more. Love that. Maybe take the time. We were talking about time and space before. So take
that time to observe and to listen and enjoy the process of thinking and doing and giving
(37:51):
yourself leeway to make mistakes. That's a big one. That is a big one. To not be afraid of mistakes
or the fear of failing because that stops so many people from even starting their journey.
And I know it's a really big catchphrase. You can learn from your mistakes but you really can.
(38:13):
But those mistakes can be like little tiny things of accidental,
that then lead to quite big changes in our lives. Oh yeah, absolutely. So I mean,
look at so many inventions in life that they have been born out of a mistake or
testing and measuring and something brand new comes out of it. I think I was reading the other day
(38:38):
about the person who invented sticky notes was actually trying to invent the world's strongest
glue and something went wrong in the formula. And so even though it's quite strong, it also can be
removed really easily and restocked. And so you could look at that and go, "That's a failure."
(38:59):
Or you go, "Hey, actually maybe there's another use for that." And so out of that,
this whole new journey has come out and probably made that guy a squillion dollars.
And look how well used post-it notes are now. Yeah, so useful. Although sometimes they can be a bit
(39:22):
too much, too many around your desk. Oh wow, okay. Well, thank you so much, Marty. I think that was
a really interesting conversation about the parallels between sustainability and creativity.
I think there are so many crossovers there. So tell me, if people want to
(39:44):
try and start that journey to eco-friendliness, how can they get in touch with you?
They can get in touch with me via my website, which is frenchfortuesday.com.au,
as well as all the social medias, which is primarily Instagram and Facebook.
They are the best ways to get in touch with me. Great. And I'll pop all those links on our website,
(40:09):
so people can access them there. But thanks so much for Marty for joining me today.
And I also want to thank everyone who has tuned in to listen to Creativity (40:14):
Uncovered.
I really hope that this episode has inspired you to take the first step. And that has given you
some ideas to help you so in creativity the next time that you need it. Thanks so much.
[Music]
(41:01):
If you've made it this far, a huge thank you for your support and tuning into today's episode.
Creativity (41:07):
Uncovered has been lovingly recorded on the land of the Kabi Kabi people,
and we pay our respects to elders past, present and emerging. This podcast has been produced by my
amazing team here at Crisp Communications, and the music you just heard was composed by James
(41:27):
Gatling. If you liked this episode, please do share it around and help us on our mission to
unlock more creativity in this world. You can also hit subscribe so you don't miss out on any new
episode releases.
Uncovered. My name is Abigail Gatling and I'm on a journey
(00:11):
to uncover how everyday people find inspiration, get inventive and open their imagination.
Basically, I want to find out how people find creative solutions for home, work, play and
everything in between. And my goal for this podcast is that by the end of it, you'll be
armed with a whole suite of tried and tested ways to summon creativity the next time that
(00:35):
you need it.
Now today I'm speaking to Mardi Lee. Mardi is an eco-living facilitator from Newcastle,
New South Wales and she empowers people to live a more simple and sustainable lifestyle.
And you may be wondering what the link is between sustainability and creativity. And
(00:57):
that's really the joy of this podcast because we don't know until we start talking about
it. And the more we can uncover it in all these different places, the more people will
be able to identify with it and identify creativity in their own lives. So let's do that in this
conversation. Welcome Mardi.
Oh, hello Abi.
(01:17):
Now before we start, I should actually point out that Mardi has actually gone to the Newcastle
Library and hired a podcasting studio so she can have this chat today. What a legend.
Thank you. I feel very special being in the podcast library at Newcastle Libraries. It's
a relatively new space and it feels great.
(01:39):
Yes. And you know, how very eco-friendly of you as well to use one of these public resources.
Yeah, that's exactly right. And the library is one of those first places of sustainability.
We've always had it there to borrow things and it's so good that it's come up with the
times and we can borrow things like a podcast studio.
(01:59):
Yeah, so great. I mean, it means that you don't have to invest in, you know, like a microphone
or lighting or anything like that that you may only use once or twice. That's great.
Yeah, sure is.
Yes. So that's great. Great that you're putting your money where your mouth is. So it's a good way
to start off this conversation. But let's go back a tiny little bit. You're an eco-living
(02:22):
facilitator and what is that and what does that include?
As a facilitator, I like to help empower our community to live sustainably every day. And
so what does that include? Well, luckily, since the easing of COVID restrictions, it
includes running workshops for our local community and sharing stories, the people as well. And
(02:48):
so the sharing of the stories can be like, I like to talk to our community and share
that either on social media or my website or as part of the workshops also.
And what's the ultimate goal there? Like, is it to help your helping people become more
eco-friendly or like, what's the goal?
Certainly more eco-friendly, but it helps them to understand that living sustainably
(03:11):
doesn't have to be all or nothing. They don't have to be that really strong advocate being
out there as an activist that we often see in the media. The goal is to really help people
understand that living sustainably can be realistic and that we can make changes in
our own homes quite easily.
Yeah, absolutely. So it's about incrementally making changes to be more sustainable.
(03:38):
Yeah, that's exactly right. And the incremental changes are about what we're starting with,
what we're really good at and what takes our fancy and what we're strong at doing. So,
for example, I really love secondhand and pre-loved. And so that's where I started with living sustainably
is how can I incorporate that into my household.
(04:02):
And how do you do that?
Well, it all started with op shopping and I think, you know, that was...
Oh, we love it.
Yeah, I know. But this was like, op shopping in the 1980s. So I had a guide camp that I
had, I was in the Girl Guide. So I had a guide camp that I had to go on and one of the recommendations
was, you know, have some really old clothes. So I remember going to St. Vinnie's or Vincent
(04:26):
to put some Vincent DePaul in Sutherland, in Sydney in the 80s and buying a pair of
jeans for $1, tie-dying them.
Wow.
And having that as my Girl Guide camping experience. So it started then and then the op shopping
has just sort of grown from there. There was a period in my 20s, you know, where I was
(04:47):
sort of doing a bit of growing up and realisation and independence where it didn't quite happen.
But then once having children, I went back into the op shopping and I would say 100%
of my wardrobe is now either op shopped, pre-loved or I've had it for a super duper long time.
Wow. That's very impressive. Because I mean, I think firstly, I think that people probably
(05:15):
wouldn't even realise that op shopping is not only, you know, a really cool way to get
interesting pieces, but it's also sustainable.
Oh yeah.
Yeah. But also, it takes a long time to do op shopping too. I find that it takes me a
good few goes to actually find stuff that fits in suits and so I mean, you having a whole
(05:38):
wardrobe of it that's really, really impressive.
Well, I must say I do like it. So I dedicate time to do it. But also I've had that time
since being having children. So I had my first child in 2005 and I noticed that that's when
I had the time to go op shopping. I was available at times where the op shops were open. And
(06:00):
so from there, I've been able to, you know, purchase things a lot more and get more understanding
about what I actually like when I go op shopping. And I'm so I'm now really targeted with my
op shopping fashion. And it also has helped me be creative in what I actually wear as
(06:21):
well like different styles that I perhaps wouldn't have chosen if I bought these brand
new.
Oh, it's like a lucky dip. I love doing that at op shops that I never buy new books. I
love to read biographies and autobiographies and I sort of see it as a challenge that every
time I go to the op shop, I just find one there and I buy it and I read it and then
(06:44):
I give it back a couple of weeks later. But it means that I'm reading about all sorts
of people that I wouldn't normally read about, you know, Rex Hunt.
Rex Hunt!
Well, I was like, "Oh, fishing." But you know, he also played AFL and was a good player.
So that's the things you learn when you op shop.
(07:05):
Well, one of my mantras is like, you never know what you can find in an op shop. And
it really helps to open your mind about what what is out there. And as I said before, things
that you wouldn't normally buy at the main retail brand new shops you can purchase at
op shops and it gives you a whole different range of experiences and knowledge.
(07:29):
Yeah. So do you show people how to do op shopping or is it kind of opening their mind to the
idea of the sort of secondhand economy?
I have been doing some op shop trails in our local area targeting areas where I know there's
a string of op shops available. And so I help people, you know, say the advantages of op
(07:51):
shopping, give a little bit of history about the op shopping as well and give them some
really hot tips. Like if you're after women's wear, don't just look in the women's department,
look in the men's department as well, because the op shop volunteers don't always know if
that item of clothing is originally intended for a male or female audience.
(08:12):
Yes. And also look in the sleepwear that that's my tip for people is that you can get some
really lovely little silk dresses and things like that in the sleepwear. People don't know
that it's sleepwear, you know, and you can also customize it. So that's good.
Yeah. Yeah. And so on your website as well, you have a bunch of resources showing how
(08:36):
people can become sustainable in other ways. And what really struck me about that is that
it's about getting into this resourceful mindset, it seems. So it's all about using waste in
different ways. Tell me a little bit about that because that seems to be...
(08:59):
something that people might need some coaching on.
Well, let me start with resourcefulness because it's only with reflection and time where I've
discovered that I've actually been resourceful my whole life. I think it started when I was
younger with my own family. I'm a child of the 70s and so I grew up in the 80s and the
(09:25):
80s was very much a period of huge commercialisation and everything had to be big and extravagant.
However, my family when I grew up in Sydney was not that way inclined and so everything
was really paired back and only spent on what we actually really needed. I watched play
(09:48):
school when I was at that age and the thing that struck me the most that I really, really
wanted to do was the useful box and everything that came out of that useful box wasn't a
toy. It was something that you could find around the home and I was always really into
that. So in one way, I've always started being resourceful and then it progressed into my
(10:13):
teenage life, the resourcefulness. When it came to paper, I remember finishing high school
in the early 90s and I had these reams and reams of paper like all my study notes and
I'd written on one side and so at the end of my school life, instead of chucking it in
the recycling bin, I just got it out, flipped it over and then reused it every again and
(10:37):
I think that resourcefulness thing continued into the rest of my everyday life and particularly
when I had children and knowing that when you first have children, it feels like you
can have everything that you ever needed or do you think that you ever needed but being
(10:58):
able to pair back on that was most important when I had children. Oh yeah, yeah, sorry
and I also forgot to say that because resourcefulness, I'm just sort of talking about resourcefulness
at the moment and it's a really big part of my life. Yeah, love the enthusiasm. Yeah
(11:19):
and I suppose being an early childhood teacher for 20 years as well, that is a key component
of being resourceful because we don't get things as an early childhood teacher, we don't
have enough money to go forward with things. So we needed to get as much as we can for
(11:40):
free available or what was already seen as waste to be able to reuse that as well. So
often when children in preschool were doing paintings, we would be getting the engineers
or the draftsman's old padpaper or I don't know what you actually, like old plans, so
the nice big pieces of paper that were used on one side and then the children would paint
(12:05):
on the other side or things like going to Reverse Garbage in Sydney where we would purchase
what was seen as commercial industrial waste and then reuse that in different ways. So
I think all of these elements combined have led to me being resourceful in an everyday
(12:27):
kind of way and to see that just because it's deemed as waste, it doesn't mean we have
to chuck it away. Yes, agreed, agreed. It seems like a lot of resourcefulness comes from necessity.
You know, like your thing, teachers are undefined, you've got to find a way to deliver your class
(12:51):
in a creative way and so it's kind of born out of that. How do you deal with getting
people who have the means to be able to buy new or to live however they want to live?
How do you get them to start thinking about being more resourceful when it's not a necessity
for them? It really comes down to their want, their
(13:13):
want to be able to be resourceful regardless of how much money that they have available
to them or resources that they have available to them. And it depends on, yeah, what their
main driving force is for living sustainably because we can't be sustainable if we are
purchasing things all the time. We can use it in many other different ways.
(13:39):
I suppose, yeah, it really just comes down to their own inclinations. How much they want
to have an impact upon the planet and their community without the expenditure and without
that realising that the money means that you need to live, you can live frugally even if
(14:02):
you've had got money. Yeah, yeah. Seems like there's kind of two challenges
there, right? It's the tapping into why people should be resourceful or sustainable. But
then the second part is how easy it is for them to do it in their lifestyle. I know that
whenever I'm talking to anyone about being a bit more sustainable and people are like,
(14:26):
"Well, I'm just one person. How could I possibly make a difference? You need everyone to do
it to make a possible difference. So why do I even try?" Do you come across that very
often? Not very often. I suppose the people I mainly
talk to are those people who are edging on the side of they want to make a difference
(14:46):
but they really don't know how. So they want those steps to go, "Well, where do I start?
What do I actually do?" And I think it is an attitude behaviour change thing. I'm not
there to change people's attitudes because there are going to always be those people
(15:08):
who really don't care at all. They're at one end of their spectrum and the other end
of the spectrum are those who are highly activist and can't think of anything else.
And so I really am there for the people who are either teetering on the edge of, "Don't
know what to do. Don't know how to do it. I need a little bit of help." To those who
are feeling quite confident in already making change and they're on to the next change and
(15:32):
they're on to the next change. But do that with warmth and an open heart.
So how do you start that process with someone who's like, "I'd like to be sustainable. I'd
like to live more eco-friendly. But I'm a busy mum with five kids or I work so much.
I don't have time to go browse the secondhand markets." How do you start them on that journey?
(16:00):
That would be a huge conversation of, "Okay, so if you're a busy mum and you've got lots
of kids and lunchboxes and time is a real dampener for you at the moment, what is it
that at the moment you're doing really well at? Is it perhaps you're wearing the same
outfit every day for five days in a row? Maybe that's the start to living more sustainably
(16:23):
in that particular family environment. It really does depend on each person's circumstances
and what they want to change the most as well. So it's very easy for us to say, "Oh, well,
you need to walk more or you need to catch public transport more. But if that's not available
to you or accessible, then that feels like it's a far-reaching goal." So you need to
(16:46):
start much, much smaller than that. It could even be as simple as how you clean your house.
Are you?
Yeah, how you clean your house. It could be, "I'm going to start with the bathroom and
I'm going to change and switch out my cleaning products. So instead of purchasing the mainstream
cleaning products which are highly toxic, it could be, "I'm starting to DIY a few cleaning
(17:10):
products and I know I'm making a difference to my family and to my home as well."
Wow. Okay. So it does kind of go back to that thing we're talking about before. Incremental,
small changes is not all or nothing.
Yeah, exactly. And you can only do what you feel passionate about and what you feel strong
(17:32):
about as well and making those changes and then more importantly, making it into a habit.
That's the whole thing about living sustainably. So shopping bags, grocery shopping bags have
been a really big thing in the last 20, 30 years and there's still people who can't make
a habit of taking their own shopping bags to the grocery store. So that's the habit
(17:56):
formation that is key as well as people really, really have to feel a strong urge to follow
through with something in order to do it well.
Yes. And I saw on your website, you actually do have sort of instructions on how DIY, your
own sustainable shopping bag out of a T-shirt I think it was.
Yeah. Isn't that cool? That really combines like the huge textile waste problem we have
(18:21):
and particularly T-shirts. I mean, we have lots of T-shirts circulating around and then
in order to make that into a grocery shopping bag and it's quite durable. Just the checkout
operators get a little bit struck by how challenging it can be to fit onto the garbage bag holder.
(18:42):
But they work it out. It holds at least four litres of milk.
That's good. That's good. And I mean, this is about creativity and we sort of talked
about it. So much of creativity is a mindset and so much of sustainability is a mindset.
Another parallel I'm seeing here is that it's not all or nothing. If you don't have creativity
(19:09):
in your life, it's not like you have to go out then all of a sudden become Picasso or whatever.
It's you got to start small, find opportunity to build into your life and make it a habit.
Just like you said. Yeah. That's exactly right. It has to and you have to be your own driving force
(19:30):
in order for it to work. Yes. And it helps to have, I guess, people around you on that journey.
Right? Oh, absolutely. Whether it be your family, whether it be your friends who share
perhaps something that you're doing or really admire what you're doing, having that extra push
(19:52):
and it could be just that, "Wow, I really love what you're doing." Or, "Gee, that's great thinking."
I mean, I had all my snap lock bags. I do still use them. There are times and places where
snap lock bags are really, really useful, particularly when you go over not hiking.
They're very lightweight and they seal up really well, but I don't throw them out.
(20:15):
I actually reuse them. So I wash them out and I reuse them and they're hanging up on my clothesline,
my inside clothesline. And my mother-in-law comes up and she was like, aghast,
"You're the first person I've ever seen that has snap lock bags on their clothesline and not clothes."
But it's just those little steps that, yeah, I suppose that is a little bit creative
(20:41):
and a little bit resourceful combined into one. I really find that creativity is at the
heart of sustainability. It's a really special kind of renewable resource.
I kind of love that you're merging your experience and your passion in this business.
That in itself is creative because quite often people keep their hobbies and their work
(21:07):
lives very separate. Yours seems very enmeshed. I think my whole life is an enmeshment of
creativity and sustainability all up. And just like sustainability, my creativity has been
very incremental. There's been some pivotal moments, I suppose, but the older I get,
(21:29):
the more I realise that I can be creative. I am creative. I just didn't realize it 30 years ago.
Okay. So what was the realization point for you? I suppose having the opportunity to let my
creativity shine through in many different ways and also having space and time. So the first
(21:54):
time I realized that perhaps I thought a little bit creatively or a bit differently was again,
when I was on Mat Leave. Now, Mat Leave was a big thing for me because for my whole life,
it was either school, uni, full-time work. And then being on Mat Leave was the first time that I
(22:14):
was disconnected from work and spent my entire time at home with my new bubs and just had bubs
myself and the home to concentrate on. And so then it meant that things could start to blossom.
You could experiment with things and experiment with home decorating.
(22:36):
Yeah. So just using, I was going out for walks with my new bubs and bringing home some sticks and
oh, what can I do with this? Or there was bulk waste cleanup in our area and people would throw
out things that I'd look at and go, oh, I'm sure there's something that you can do with that.
(22:56):
And so it would come home with me and then it would sit on the front veranda just waiting for
that really ripe time. And then when something did happen, then I would get that external
motivation from someone else to say, wow, I would have never thought of that. That's so creative.
And so the more I did things, the more I got this external motivation from people, realizing that,
(23:22):
oh, okay, I'm thinking a little bit differently from other people.
Yeah, lateral thinking is a huge part of creativity. And when we spoke the last time,
so we spoke a couple of weeks ago, that was one of the things that really struck me from our
conversation was that I think that creativity is about thinking about things a little bit differently.
(23:50):
And you had sort of implied that about sustainability as well, that it's about
thinking slightly differently from I guess what the mainstream is and the usual path. Like you
said, switching out the things that you can easily buy at your local grocery store and using what you
have around the house and maybe going back to those older methods, the tried and tested methods.
(24:16):
Yeah. Yeah. And I think creativity is all about thinking differently. And it's a real mix of our
own imagination, having the initiative to try something new, I suppose, having the confidence
as well, and being really open to the possibility that some things might not work and some things will.
(24:41):
And then it's just that solving the problems that can happen and being able to think about those
problems in a different kind of way. Yeah. So creativity is, there's huge scope and sustainability,
it is all about thinking differently. We can't keep on living sustainably if we just follow the
(25:01):
norm all the time. There's always got to be like some kind of out of the box kind of thinking
to make progression and change happen as well. And I guess over time, it will be easier and easier.
I'm definitely seeing a trend. I'm thinking you probably don't have to think so crazily and out
(25:22):
of the box to be sustainable these days because there's more and more options available. There's
more and more information available to your fingertips as to giving you ideas on how to be
sustainable and make these little switches, including lots of tons of eco products out there as well.
But it just seems like it's all about the mindset. It just keeps coming back to the mindset to me.
(25:51):
Yeah, it is the mindset and it's been having an open mind and being able to see different
perspectives on things as well. So it is that the critical thinking is really important about
living sustainably because that helps in becoming a more mindful consumer and more mindful about
what we do. But that lateral thinking about doing it differently is even more important
(26:16):
as well. And just as I said before, seeing things from different perspectives.
So what is creativity to you? Creativity to me is it is all about thinking differently.
It is all about taking that different perspective and the perspective that you think is right for
(26:39):
you at that time. And it's also about being curious because creativity is all about curiosity.
And just be willing to dip in and make some kind of change.
(27:00):
Yeah, I love the idea of curiosity because it really is. It's kind of what if and then explore
and then find out. Yeah, yeah. That's right. And it's a beautiful word, curious or curiosity.
And also wondering, you know, to have a wonder as well and whether that means
(27:23):
wondering your mind or wonder for a walk as well as what else is creativity. I suppose
creativity is about the process of doing something and it's really a very slow process
but a very rewarding process as well. So it's not necessarily... So the difference is
(27:50):
I suppose play. So when I look back to me being a teacher for all those years, children play
all the time. And I think as an adult, we forget what play means and we forget how to play or our
play looks very, very differently and is prescribed by rules. Whereas I find that being creative for
(28:14):
me is all about that sense of play and having fun and just doing something for the sake of just
doing something because it is fun. And then it's from that that we can see, as I said,
from a different perspective or see with a new mind or an open and curious mind.
(28:34):
Yeah. It's interesting that you mentioned children and play and how that sort of
fades out over time as you become an adult. That has come up a few times and it's...
I wonder what it is that happens throughout our journey and life that we are slowly reducing the
(28:58):
amount of spontaneous and erratic play. As adults, we just walk around on a very set track. What do
you think that is? That's a big question. Don't exaggerate the answer. I'm curious about it because
(29:20):
it comes up a lot. What is happening to us and what can we do to help the next generation that
they don't lose it and have to find it? Oh, wow. I wonder if we lose that because an adult...
We become responsible. And as an adult that everything is goal focused and a goal is an
(29:46):
outcome. A goal is essentially a product and then we forget that perhaps to get to that goal,
there could be different ways of going about that. It doesn't have to be this one streamlined,
must-do kind of effort. It's that process and that journey that you were talking about before
rather than the end result and the destination. I delved into the book, Julia Cameron's book,
(30:19):
The Artist's Way. That was like taking a real liberty moment where I dedicated a day a week
just to explore without a map, explore without a goal and just go, "Oh, I wonder where around
(30:40):
this corner..." Like I took myself for a walk around here in Newcastle one day. Just to the
whole, instead of walking from A to B, I was walking from A to potentially B but via C, D,
E, F and G in order to get to B. And that in itself just helped me clear that mind and didn't have
(31:03):
that... Because you didn't have that goal. It was all about that process and it sparked a little
bit more curiosity and creativity. I was going to ask, how do you get yourself into that creative
mindset? Is it through walking like that and just giving yourself, like you said, the time and the
space to just be? The time and the space is so important but I also find that having a shower
(31:33):
is one of my other places of sparking that creativity. It's not very sustainable, is it?
No. I'm like, "I want a five to ten minute shower but the offset is I don't do that every single day
but the offset is like I live sustainably in so many different other ways but I have to let my
(31:56):
creativity flow somehow." And it's like that clinging of that idea. So it could be just having
a longer shower than normal sitting outside. That's the other thing that I find really sparks
creativity is going outside, going for a walk because being outside is such a dynamic environment.
(32:18):
Things change all the time, whether it be the weather or the way you go to places, things change.
Whereas when we're inside all the time, it's a very static environment. Nothing changes.
The air temperature is the same, the furniture is the same. Very controlled. Absolutely very
controlled but the more like I find that I get outside, the more I allow time and space
(32:44):
to be creative and the more I allow my time to be observant about the things around me
helps delving to that creative side. I think, talking about this with my husband a couple of
months ago, that we're so busy, both of us run our own businesses and so we're always
(33:07):
in a rush from one place to the other. But whenever you're taking the dog for a walk or
our nieces and nephews, you take them out for a little walk. The pace has to be slower. The dog
is sniffing every single tree, is looking at stuff, is being scared by the wind and because
(33:28):
you're having to go at the same pace as your dog or the kid or whoever, is forcing you to slow down
and it's also forcing you to observe what's around you as well. You're like, "Oh, I didn't know that
house had painted their door red or did you know there was a park down that corner?" I kind of love
(33:48):
it. This forced slowness has sort of opened your mind to things that you were probably too busy to
see. The time and space that you were mentioning before, I think that's exactly that, is that
you're giving, instead of being so focused on productivity and achievements and all those
sorts of things, you just give yourself the time and space to observe and just be like,
(34:12):
"Huh, what happens if I do this?" Let me try that out.
Aren't dogs and kids amazing at helping you slow down?
Yes. You can't be annoyed at it either because they're so lovely and pure and so friendly.
Yeah, absolutely embracing that. Before having children, when we go traveling, my husband and I
(34:36):
would, we'd be on the move all the time. We've got to see as much as we can at whatever times that
we need to be there. But having kids and going on a holiday that is like a travelling holiday
really does make you slow down, observe things, stop for a cuppa and relax a little bit more.
You probably gain that a whole lot more by being so available to the time and not seeing that time
(35:06):
is pressure, but just embracing that time. Do you think that everyone needs creativity in their life?
Oh yes, everyone needs creativity in their life. My gosh, there's so much more interesting people.
If you've got a little bit of creativity, oh, if you're the person in a crowded room,
(35:28):
I can pick out whether you're quite creative or not and you're the type of person that I'd love
to spend time with. Creativity makes for interesting people, interesting conversations
and makes things happen. I think everyone should embed a little bit of creativity into their life.
For extra interest. And there's also that inspiration. You might become that person
(35:57):
that someone else feels inspired by or they admire something that you actually do and maybe
that admiration is something that you've done a little bit differently.
Yeah, I love that. You never know who you're going to inspire.
You don't. And whether that's something that someone openly says that you're an inspiration
(36:18):
or it's just like you've added a little part or a chapter in their story of life.
That's very sweet. I like that. I like that. And so what are some tips that you have?
I know we kind of spoken about what helps us get there towards creativity.
But what are some tips you think you can share with people if they want to start on that journey
(36:45):
and they just don't know what the first step is? Oh, I have a few tips that we might have already
touched on. Yeah. But one of them is, yeah, get outside. As much as you can, get outside. It's
a really dynamic environment. Things change all the time. Another tip would be to take an ordinary
(37:06):
habit or routine and do it a little bit differently. See what happens. Travel. Travel more. It doesn't
have to be a big travel. It doesn't have to be an overseas travel. But just get out of your home
environment because it's very easy for us to feel very comfortable in our own homes, our own communities
(37:29):
but the more that we travel, the more that it broadens our horizons and our minds. Get out and
travel more. Love that. Maybe take the time. We were talking about time and space before. So take
that time to observe and to listen and enjoy the process of thinking and doing and giving
(37:51):
yourself leeway to make mistakes. That's a big one. That is a big one. To not be afraid of mistakes
or the fear of failing because that stops so many people from even starting their journey.
And I know it's a really big catchphrase. You can learn from your mistakes but you really can.
(38:13):
But those mistakes can be like little tiny things of accidental,
that then lead to quite big changes in our lives. Oh yeah, absolutely. So I mean,
look at so many inventions in life that they have been born out of a mistake or
testing and measuring and something brand new comes out of it. I think I was reading the other day
(38:38):
about the person who invented sticky notes was actually trying to invent the world's strongest
glue and something went wrong in the formula. And so even though it's quite strong, it also can be
removed really easily and restocked. And so you could look at that and go, "That's a failure."
(38:59):
Or you go, "Hey, actually maybe there's another use for that." And so out of that,
this whole new journey has come out and probably made that guy a squillion dollars.
And look how well used post-it notes are now. Yeah, so useful. Although sometimes they can be a bit
(39:22):
too much, too many around your desk. Oh wow, okay. Well, thank you so much, Marty. I think that was
a really interesting conversation about the parallels between sustainability and creativity.
I think there are so many crossovers there. So tell me, if people want to
(39:44):
try and start that journey to eco-friendliness, how can they get in touch with you?
They can get in touch with me via my website, which is frenchfortuesday.com.au,
as well as all the social medias, which is primarily Instagram and Facebook.
They are the best ways to get in touch with me. Great. And I'll pop all those links on our website,
(40:09):
so people can access them there. But thanks so much for Marty for joining me today.
And I also want to thank everyone who has tuned in to listen to Creativity (40:14):
Uncovered.
I really hope that this episode has inspired you to take the first step. And that has given you
some ideas to help you so in creativity the next time that you need it. Thanks so much.
[Music]
(41:01):
If you've made it this far, a huge thank you for your support and tuning into today's episode.
Creativity (41:07):
Uncovered has been lovingly recorded on the land of the Kabi Kabi people,
and we pay our respects to elders past, present and emerging. This podcast has been produced by my
amazing team here at Crisp Communications, and the music you just heard was composed by James
(41:27):
Gatling. If you liked this episode, please do share it around and help us on our mission to
unlock more creativity in this world. You can also hit subscribe so you don't miss out on any new
episode releases.
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