April 15, 2024 • 33 mins
Lauren Spangler’s biggest creative boom came when she had LESS time than ever. But even though the timing was a little off, she was able to use this experience to redefine her relationship with her creative side.
After facing creative burnout, Lauren pivoted her career from being a musician and artist to a desk job as strategist. It wasn’t until years later, when she was up nursing her newborn that creativity stuck again. Lauren joins me on Creativity: Uncovered to share her story about how she was able to get back her creative spark.
Tune in to Creativity: Uncovered to hear about:
- Lauren’s previous career as a professional musician and artist
- How creative burnout crept up on her
- Navigating her dormant creativity
- When creativity re-struck
- How to fit creativity into parenting and family life
- How to maintain a daily creative habit
- Lauren’s creative coaching to help others re-engage their creativity
Happy listening!
xo Abi
P.S. For more information about this episode and our guest, head to: www.crispcomms.co/podcast-episodes/when-creativity-strikes-in-an-inconvenient-moment
Creativity: Uncovered is lovingly edited by the team at Crisp Communications.
Creativity: Uncovered is a registered Australian Trade Mark.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
[MUSIC]
(00:05):
>> I'll timed is such an interesting expression to me because
because of that word ill, it implies that it is a negative thing.
But my guest today and Creativity (00:16):
Uncovered proves that even though
sometimes the timing can be off a little bit,
you still can create a really positive experience and outcome.
[MUSIC]
Hi, my name is Abi Gatling and this is Creativity (00:31):
Uncovered.
This is a podcast where I try and uncover how everyday people find inspiration,
get inventive and open their imagination.
Basically, I want to know how people find creative solutions and
then how they use those at home, at work, at play and everything in between.
(00:53):
And my goal for the podcast is that by the end of it,
you will be armed with a whole suite of tried and tested ways to
summon creativity the next time that you need it.
[MUSIC]
So today I'm very excited to be speaking with Lauren Spangler,
who was a painter and a musician, a writer, creativity coach and a mom.
(01:16):
So welcome Lauren.
>> It's a treat to be here, Abi.
Thank you for having me.
>> My pleasure.
I'm really interested and excited about this chat because we spoke a couple of
weeks ago and I was like, I have so many more questions.
I have to wait for the podcast and now it's my opportunity.
>> Here we are.
>> Yeah, because I think this is a really fantastic topic for
(01:38):
the podcast because we have a couple of different types of people who listen to
the podcast.
It's people who are already working in the creative space and they want tips and
tricks to be able to push through creative blocks and stay creative and
motivated.
But then the second type is people who maybe feel that they're not
creative or they don't have the ability to be creative and we want to try and
(02:00):
unlock these new ways of tapping into creativity.
And I feel like you are going to help with both of these different audience types.
So I'm really keen to jump in.
[LAUGH]
So Lauren, when you reached out, I was super, super intrigued by the story.
Because for you, creativity struck at a pretty inconvenient time, would you say?
(02:23):
[LAUGH]
>> Yeah, well, restruct maybe.
I think it is something I loved for a long time and fell out of.
And then it sort of popped back up in an unexpected moment, for sure.
>> Yes, so let's talk about that.
So restruct, so you were working or playing in a creative space prior and
then perhaps your creativity dropped off?
(02:45):
What happened there?
>> Yeah, so I guess when I was little, I didn't think of it as creativity.
I just thought of it as play.
And my favorite ways to play were to draw or to write or to make music.
And so whenever I had a spare scrap of time, I was usually at the piano or
making a story or painting something.
And I was really lucky to grow up in a home where those things were embraced and
(03:10):
encouraged.
And so all through my childhood, I had lessons, I had wonderful teachers.
I went to school for music, I trained as a composer and a performer.
And after college, I was a professional musician for about a year.
And then for a variety of reasons, which I'd be glad to go into if you want.
(03:32):
But I wound up stopping and stopping completely and
building a completely separate career as a strategist in a entirely different
industry.
And I spent about seven years in what I thought was just a new chapter of life.
And what I realized now was actually sort of a deep creative burnout.
(03:53):
And I didn't expect it to ever end.
I thought that creativity and music and art and trying to do these things with a
high degree of intention was just something for the earlier phase of my life.
I thought that was over.
And so when I was in my late 20s and I had a career and I had kids and I had a
(04:15):
mortgage and I was living a very different life from the life of an artist that I'd
initially set out to live.
I suddenly started having this new surge of creative desire and these projects that
popped up that I wanted to work on.
And I started painting in the middle of the night and I started doing all these
really unexpected creative explorations that reminded me that I really wanted to go
(04:41):
back into that creative space.
But it sure didn't fit the new plan at all.
And so then I was sort of in this moment where I wasn't wanting to sacrifice all
the new roles and priorities I had.
But I wanted to sort of readopt this creative practice and creative identity
that was still important to me.
Wow.
There was so much there that I want to ask you about.
(05:04):
So much.
OK.
So you were in this creative career path and you veered away from that because
of burnout.
So does that mean that you were just putting out too much and not putting enough
back in?
Or like what do you think caused that burnout?
I think that was a big piece of it.
(05:25):
Yeah.
I think there was an imbalance in the way I was creating and the way I was enjoying
what I created and the play had sort of gotten sapped out of it for me and it
turned into something totally different than what it had been and what I had really
fallen in love with about being creative.
(05:45):
And now I look at it as a relationship with creativity, that we all have this
relationship with our creativity that is separate from the products of our
creativity and is separate from the perhaps the reception of our creativity
or the reviews we get on our creativity.
The relationship that we experience in our creative practice is its own aspect
(06:09):
that we have to tend carefully just like you would any relationship that's
important to you.
Right.
There are certain ways you would spend time in an important relationship.
You'd be sure to have fun in an important relationship.
There are ways you would think about and talk about and define yourself in
regard to an important relationship.
And looking back now I realized I was not doing that with my creativity when I
(06:33):
first started as a professional.
And so, yeah, what happened is I actually hit this moment where I felt like
there was this fork in the road where I could either continue trying to make it
in the creative world or I could build a life of financial stability and sort of
(06:56):
build the type of childhood for my children that I had had, which is one
where my parents were home with me.
My mom tucked this into bed at night and read us a story.
And at some point I had this sort of crisis and I realized I'm not going to
be able to do that with my kids because if I'm on a stage somewhere or on a tour
somewhere or whatever, I'm not going to be there for all those precious little
(07:17):
moments.
And also where I was in my career, where I was in the industry, I wasn't able
to create the sense of stability that I knew I wanted on some level.
And so music and art just wasn't affording me what I thought I wanted to
build an experience.
(07:38):
And so at that moment, because creativity was no longer fun and because it
wasn't bringing me the lifestyle that I was envisioning for my future, I decided
to step away from it.
And I was happy with that decision for quite a long time until I realized that
those creative dreams and visions and desires didn't go anywhere.
(08:00):
They just sort of sat in the background waiting to be listened to.
Yeah, wow.
That is so interesting.
And it's complex our relationship with creativity because as you said, it is a
relationship.
I love the fact that you sort of likened it to perhaps like a romantic
relationship, but whereas deeply, deeply personal.
And when you're constantly having to do it for other people and produce things
(08:24):
at the end rather than just play in the process, then it can get out of skew
like really quickly.
But that's really interesting.
I also think a couple of people on the podcast have mentioned the idea of
seasons as a relationship to your creativity where that was a season where
(08:45):
it was creativity was at the forefront and then it's OK for take that step back.
But eventually as all seasons keep progressing forward, you know, you're
going to somehow get back there again.
Yeah.
So so when you had this, you know, this the career as the strategist,
did you think about creativity at all?
Or were you just like, I just need a break from that?
(09:08):
It's not my focus at the moment.
Oh, yeah.
No, I definitely still made things.
I still enjoyed.
I still enjoyed playing at the piano to decompress or, you know,
drawing something for fun with my my kids.
But I think I had relegated it to this different category where I had sort of
said, OK, I'm not an artist, though, or I'm not a musician, though.
(09:32):
This is just a hobby.
This is just a small thing.
It's all very low stakes.
Like I don't want much out of this.
And I think that was a way to cope with the burnout and release the pressure and
just allow it to be this fun thing.
And probably at the time, that was the right medicine because it allowed me to
just get back into this easeful, kind of playful relationship with what I was making.
(09:56):
And I would say I created much less often.
You know, I think when I was young, I would play piano and make songs like daily.
It was something that I just couldn't stay away from.
And I think during my burnout, it was something that I would maybe once a month
I would go sit down and try to try to make something and wind up usually
(10:18):
getting a little frustrated or just deciding to cut it short.
And so it was a different type of practice and it didn't feel as
quite as fulfilling or wholehearted.
But it was still there sort of in drip drop levels throughout those years.
Yeah, wow.
It's interesting what you just said before about naming yourself as an artist
(10:39):
or as a musician, it's like an artist, capital A, musician, capital N.
You know, like your title.
Well, is that is that how you can make that separation that I'm, you know,
I'm I just do music versus I'm a musician that was able that gave you that separation.
Did it?
Yeah, I think at the time I needed some way to divorce my sense of success
(11:04):
as a person from whatever success or failure I was perceiving with my art.
And in in art school or in music school,
I think it's really easy to get those two things wrapped around each other so tightly
where if you're performing well or if the piece turns out nicely or whatever,
like you are fulfilling your role and you're a good capital A
(11:28):
artist or capital M musician.
And it puts a lot of pressure on the outcome.
I don't think that's a bad thing because I think it's important to hold ourselves
to a high standard and to strive for creating amazing things.
And the point of studying and training is to develop the techniques to do that.
And there has to be some critical feedback, right?
I don't think it's I don't think it's a bad thing.
(11:50):
But I do think it's a powerful thing in terms of how it shapes and shifts
the way you perceive yourself in relation to your artwork.
And so for me, music and art became this this title,
this noun that I had to like live up to.
And I think through recovering through burnout and reintegrating creativity
(12:14):
in a different way and rebuilding the relationship, I turned it back into a verb
of like, I'm going to paint, I'm going to make a song, I'm going to I'm going to sing
for a while instead of I'm going to go be a singer.
It's just a totally different energy for me and made it a lot more enjoyable.
And let me be back in it instead of,
you know, in the experience of doing it instead of analyzing the experience of doing it.
(12:37):
Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah, that that's really that's really interesting.
Oh, so interesting that it's it's such it's a mindset set shift for you to
change that.
And that's how you've changed your relationship, the creativity.
So so you're ticking along in this career in a not like non creative.
(12:58):
I'm using air quotes for anyone who's listening, audio, non creative career,
doing these little bits and pieces.
But you actually had a moment when you had a newborn baby and you felt like you
were restruct with your creativity.
Tell me tell me what that moment was and how that creativity was different to
(13:20):
the little bits and pieces you were doing throughout that time.
Yeah, I I had just given birth to my second son and he was tiny, teeny tiny.
We were still in the waking up in the middle of the night phase.
So we wake up and nurse like multiple times a night and he was he would fall
straight back to sleep and I would sit there awake in bed with nothing to do.
(13:42):
A dark house, everyone's sleeping, everything's quiet.
And the first thing that would pop to mind was like, I really want to go draw
something. And for a while, I thought this is probably just delirium.
I'm probably slowly deprived that I don't recognize this is a ridiculous time
to go get out like paints or pencil like this is not the moment.
(14:03):
Eventually, I just gave into it and I started keeping a pad next to my bed
and and the pen and and so when he would go back to sleep and I would stay awake,
I would just sort of start start drawing and start sketching things.
And I started I actually started sketching these mama and baby animals
(14:23):
and these little these little tender moments together.
And I I would start to sketch moments that I had experienced with my son that day.
These little precious newborn times that I didn't want to lose the memory of.
I would start to capture in these sketches and for moments with my toddler.
I also had a two year old at the time also running around.
(14:45):
And so he was also full of these really funny, fun, enjoyable
and also sometimes crazy and difficult and exhausting moments.
And in the ups and downs of all of that and also this upside downness
of just being in the throes of suddenly being a mom of two.
I think one way that I made sense of that was to capture the moments
(15:07):
that I really wanted to remember in these little sketches of these animals.
And so over a few months, I I created this collection that I just love
because now I look at it and it takes me right back to those little moments,
you know, three years ago when I was snuggling my little newborn
or chasing my toddler around the house and in in that practice,
(15:28):
in in this sort of like tidal wave of all these ideas and all these drawings coming out.
I realized that I was having so much fun and that I wanted to paint
and that I wanted to share this work with people and that I wanted to maybe put
the artist hat back on for a minute and think about whether these paintings
would mean anything to anyone else and would it help remind some other mom
(15:50):
of a tender moment she was enjoying with her little ones?
And so I started sharing them and connecting with people over the art
and it just sort of reignited this whole creative identity and practice
and desire and vision that had been dormant for a long time,
but felt really, really good to get back into.
But not the moment I would have chosen if I could have picked a moment
(16:14):
to suddenly learn, learn how to paint again and learn how to how to run
an art business and all of that probably would have timed it differently.
But it turned out it turned out well in the end.
Yeah, I can imagine it's you know, that saying if you want something done,
ask a busy person.
And yeah, that basically means the more you do, the more you can do.
(16:40):
And so you already have so much on your plate and probably very little personal time.
But you're like, I'm just going to squeeze this in and get work.
But what was like struck me when you're talking there was that
your creative expression at that time was just so born from this emotional
(17:04):
space where you are trying to remember these tender moments
and how you're feeling at that point in time.
And I think that's really important for creativity is that it is like
this deeply, deeply personal thing.
Yeah, it's a feel vulnerable doing things.
I know you're doing beautiful drawings of animals and things like that.
But it still feel kind of vulnerable because it's such an emotional thing.
(17:26):
It did. Yeah, I think there was also a piece there where I was sense making,
you know, this whole experience of becoming a mom or becoming a mother
of two or like it's this huge seismic shift.
And it's deeply disorienting.
(17:46):
It's like, what do you what do you anchor down into when everything
in your life is sort of uprooted and upended?
And so I think it was also a way for me to sort of choose
what to focus on and what I really wanted to take out of that really wild,
crazy season. And it is vulnerable.
It was personal and it was although it felt less personal
(18:10):
because I was drawing like, you know, pandas instead of myself.
Somehow that made it a little bit less revealing.
But yeah, I think there was also a piece there where I was I was struggling
with some postpartum anxiety.
I'd had a difficult experience with my first birth and my second birth,
brought a lot of that up.
(18:30):
And I think to focus on these moments of connection with my baby
or play with my children helped just bring me back to center a little bit
and and say, you know, whatever I'm afraid of in this moment
or whatever the season is bringing up for me and the fears that I'm facing as a mom,
I can still choose to focus on the things that are going right.
(18:53):
And these moments of bonding that I'm having.
And I think at some point there was this subconscious choice that like
that's what I wanted to carry out was the bonding.
I didn't want to remember all of the strife and fear and anxiety and and all of that,
which I think most new parents experience.
That was all there.
(19:14):
And that was a valid and important piece of that time.
The part that I really wanted to focus on and and keep for myself
was these tender little moments that I knew were fleeting.
So yeah, it is a really vulnerable collection of work.
But it really resonated with people and I found that a lot of them
it brought them back to some of these tender moments in their families.
(19:37):
And that was really rewarding for me.
Oh, that's lovely.
It sounds like it was kind of a cathartic experience for you as well.
And definitely from speaking with, you know, friends and family who've been
new parents like that it can really shake your sense of self
and your sense of like your identity.
(19:58):
And it's interesting to me that.
That was sort of happening to you, but you were refining or redefining
your identity back as becoming an artist again during that time.
That's just really interesting to me.
Yeah, no, that's been I think that's been huge in what's happened
(20:19):
in the three years since that sort of unexpected creative boom happened.
I think continuing to prioritize it has been an act of self care.
And self love to say, yes, I'm a mom.
Yes, I'm a strategist.
Yes, I'm a coach.
And I'm also going to go paint some stuff right now.
I'm going to go write a song.
(20:40):
I'm going to go record some music.
I think allowing that identity to flourish has been a huge help
in just rebalancing me in motherhood, but rebalancing our whole family.
I think it's great for my kids to get to see me go have fun making something
and and get to share it with them afterward.
(21:02):
And even if that means they can't knock on mom's studio door for 45 minutes
because she's got an idea she's working on and they're going to go play with dad
for a while, like even if it makes me unavailable to them for a slice of time.
I think it's worthwhile for them to see their parents prioritizing
and enjoying these things that are a different part of their identity
(21:24):
outside of parenthood.
Yes, I agree.
And them seeing you model like this almost self care,
you know, prioritizing your fun and your happiness is really important
because so many of our parents never did that
because there was this real sense of duty and people didn't have hobbies.
(21:46):
So I think.
Yeah, I think it's really great that you're doing that.
So what? Yeah.
What has the impact been since then?
So you said that you've started to do some of this work
and you're selling it to other people.
But yeah, are you working in creativity in the full full time?
Or are you? Yeah, yeah.
(22:07):
Actually, how what does it look like?
Yeah, no, it's.
It's a mix. It's a mix.
I definitely enjoy.
I haven't I haven't recorded music in a long time.
That's one thing I haven't done professionally in a while.
Although I am having fun writing it more now than I have in a long time.
I have some exciting projects that I'm looking forward to releasing sometime
(22:30):
eventually, non-committal answer here.
No timeline has been recorded on this podcast.
Yeah, but paintings I love.
So I've been selling artwork for a few years now about about two and a half years.
And at this point, all of my sales are direct to collector online.
I connect to the most of my collectors on Instagram.
(22:51):
It's a really fun operation, actually, because now my oldest son is old enough
to participate in that.
So he'll sometimes help me pack orders or he'll help me run them down to the post office.
And it's been really neat to have his help and him get to see the inside
of kind of a small art business and how that's run.
So it's a blast.
(23:12):
And then creativity coaching has has also joined the mix as I sort of developed
the framework in my own life about how to reintegrate creativity
and how to balance it with all the other things that I was prioritizing as a mom
and as a, you know, having a career, etc., etc.
(23:33):
I started to help other people do that as well.
And so now that's that's a huge piece of my focus and something I am really
passionate about and love to do.
And then I also.
Yeah, no, go ahead.
Oh, I was going to say like that the creative coaching that's so interesting.
So you've taken your experience of this and you're translating it to help
(23:56):
others do the same like what does that what does that look like?
Yeah, I find that there are a lot of people who are deeply skilled and passionate
and have this creative vision or this project that they want to bring into being.
But they feel like they're trapped and they can't do it because they feel
like they don't have the time or the space or, you know,
(24:18):
for many of us, we built our lives around a certain degree of financial
stability that we're not willing to sacrifice to just drop everything and
go be an artist.
I'm not willing or not able.
And so a lot of the people that I work with want help bridging the gap
between this creative work that they know they want to do, that they feel called to do
(24:38):
and the tangible daily actions that they can actually take to do that
and how that creative work can fit in with all these other hats that they wear.
I love I love sitting down with people and taking an inventory of what they want
to do with their creativity, what they want to experience with it,
what creative fulfillment would look like to them.
(25:01):
And then talk about how they can do that now in their real life.
And yeah, there's a framework as a process.
We walk through to do that and help them bring it in in a very real and fulfilling way.
And that that's the work that really lights me up right now,
because it's just so fun to watch this this fulfilled
(25:24):
experience be contagious and watch other people start to do it too.
It's it's really rewarding.
Yeah, I can imagine I I, you know, you've done the hard work of doing it yourself
in your in your life.
And now you're helping other people realize that too.
That must be a fantastic feeling.
It's great.
(25:44):
It's really fun.
And one of the most fun pieces is that I work with a range of people.
So I get to I talk with painters and illustrators and musicians and writers.
And the other day, I got to learn a ton about metal working
because I was working with a jeweler.
And I don't know the first thing about jewelry making.
But, you know, we were talking through her process and what it would take for her
(26:06):
to actually create this brand new collection that she has had on her mind for a long time.
And so she was talking to me about the mechanics of like the tools and equipment
she needed to do it and how that was or wasn't compatible with her newborn baby
that she was also now, you know, mother to.
And and as we were talking through all of that, I got to learn a tremendous amount
about what it's like to be a jeweler.
(26:27):
So that's a really fun part of the gig as well, learning about all these different crafts.
I bet it and it's it's cool that it's a it's a process that translates
to all these different mediums.
Like it I guess it's the same mechanics of it all.
It doesn't matter what sense part of creativity you apply it to.
(26:50):
Yeah, because I like to take it back to the root of the relationship
a person has with their creativity and that can apply in all sorts of different domains.
So and there are also people who are sort of multidisciplinary, like myself,
who might be an author and an illustrator or whatever.
And yeah, I find that there are some truths and some principles
(27:13):
that can help help most people no matter
no matter what their actual creative practice or discipline looks like.
Yeah. So you've reintroduced creativity into your life.
You're helping other people get it back into their lives.
Are you feeling creatively fulfilled now?
Or is this do you still have a creative itch that you are looking to scratch at some point?
(27:39):
Well, I have projects I'm excited to work on
and I always have more projects than I have time in the day to work on.
But no, I do feel extremely fulfilled because I think that's the piece of it.
I have to guard really carefully, especially the more projects I get to
start and the more clients I get to work with.
I feel like it's more and more important for me to protect the time
(27:59):
to just have that that free creative space.
I always recommend that people carve out 60 minutes a day,
which sounds like a lot before you do it, but it's not that much really.
Sixty minutes a day where they have absolutely no
expectations for what they're going to produce,
where they just get to go have fun, they just get to go play.
(28:22):
They don't have any interruptions
and they get to go explore and do whatever it is
that's going to bring them fulfillment on that given day and that given moment.
And I find that when I maintain that practice, I call it my golden hour.
That's what I call it just because it's sort of this like glowing, precious part of my day.
But when I uphold that golden hour and I uphold that rhythm,
(28:46):
it gives me a lot of opportunity to do whatever is going to bring me fulfillment
in that moment and it hasn't failed me yet.
It's been a really healthy thing for me over the past few years.
Yes, that's a great tip.
And yeah, it does sound like 60 minutes an hour.
That sounds like a lot of time, but, you know,
(29:07):
we probably spend way more of that just doom scrolling on our phones or doing something else.
For sure.
Make us feel as good.
Yeah, you know, I really benefited from swapping out the term.
I don't have time with the phrase, it's not a priority.
(29:28):
Because when I would tell myself, oh, you know, I don't have time to go draw.
If I would say it's not a priority to go draw, then sometimes that's true.
Like there are days where, yeah, it's not a priority to go draw.
But when you make that that swap of phrases, it gets you really clear
on where you're making priority calls and blaming it on bandwidth.
(29:49):
You know, I don't have time to go play Legos with my kid right now.
Well, it's not a priority to go play Legos with my kid.
I don't have time to go reach out to that perspective, you know,
collector of my work.
Well, no, it's not a priority.
Or if it is a priority, maybe there's something else there
that's keeping you from doing it.
So yeah, it's there is time there.
(30:11):
It just has to become an intentional practice around how we spend that time.
That swap of language is really
powerful because if you say because it if you say it's not a prior
to do that, that either hits you in the gut, being like, Oh, my gosh,
did I just say that?
Or you go, actually, no, it's not a priority.
(30:33):
If it comes out and it feels wrong, then you've made it.
Exactly.
It gives you your own gut check.
As soon as you say it, you know whether that's true or not.
Right.
And so as soon as I started asking myself what the priorities really were,
then, you know, it becomes pretty clear how you can build your day
around what your priorities truly are.
Yeah. Yeah. Wow.
(30:54):
Oh, my gosh. Such an interesting story and lots of great tips and takeaways there.
Thank you so much for joining me, Lauren.
That was a really cool chat.
Thanks for having me.
This is a blast.
And what I'll do is I'll pop in the show notes, the link to your website,
where there is some beautiful artwork on there.
Your drawings are just fantastic.
(31:16):
And there's also the information about your creative coaching
and all the other beautiful things that you're doing.
But I also want to say thank you to everyone who's tuned in to Creativity (31:23):
Uncovered today.
If you enjoyed this episode, please, wherever you're listening now or watching now,
jump on and give us a rating or review because this helps other people find this podcast
and share our message with more people.
And as always, if this episode has creatively inspired you, do get in touch.
(31:45):
I love to hear what it inspires you to do.
And then I hope it helps you some in creativity the next time that you need it.
Thanks and take care.
. If you've made it this far,
(32:25):
a huge thank you for your support and tuning into today's episode.
Creativity (32:29):
Uncovered has been lovingly recorded on the land of the Kabi Kabi people
and we pay our respects to elders past, present and emerging.
This podcast has been produced by my amazing team here at Crisp Communications
and the music you just heard was composed by James Gatling.
(32:50):
If you liked this episode, please do share it around
and help us on our mission to unlock more creativity in this world.
You can also hit subscribe so you don't miss out on any new episode releases.
(gentle music)
[MUSIC]
(00:05):
>> I'll timed is such an interesting expression to me because
because of that word ill, it implies that it is a negative thing.
But my guest today and Creativity (00:16):
Uncovered proves that even though
sometimes the timing can be off a little bit,
you still can create a really positive experience and outcome.
[MUSIC]
Hi, my name is Abi Gatling and this is Creativity (00:31):
Uncovered.
This is a podcast where I try and uncover how everyday people find inspiration,
get inventive and open their imagination.
Basically, I want to know how people find creative solutions and
then how they use those at home, at work, at play and everything in between.
(00:53):
And my goal for the podcast is that by the end of it,
you will be armed with a whole suite of tried and tested ways to
summon creativity the next time that you need it.
[MUSIC]
So today I'm very excited to be speaking with Lauren Spangler,
who was a painter and a musician, a writer, creativity coach and a mom.
(01:16):
So welcome Lauren.
>> It's a treat to be here, Abi.
Thank you for having me.
>> My pleasure.
I'm really interested and excited about this chat because we spoke a couple of
weeks ago and I was like, I have so many more questions.
I have to wait for the podcast and now it's my opportunity.
>> Here we are.
>> Yeah, because I think this is a really fantastic topic for
(01:38):
the podcast because we have a couple of different types of people who listen to
the podcast.
It's people who are already working in the creative space and they want tips and
tricks to be able to push through creative blocks and stay creative and
motivated.
But then the second type is people who maybe feel that they're not
creative or they don't have the ability to be creative and we want to try and
(02:00):
unlock these new ways of tapping into creativity.
And I feel like you are going to help with both of these different audience types.
So I'm really keen to jump in.
[LAUGH]
So Lauren, when you reached out, I was super, super intrigued by the story.
Because for you, creativity struck at a pretty inconvenient time, would you say?
(02:23):
[LAUGH]
>> Yeah, well, restruct maybe.
I think it is something I loved for a long time and fell out of.
And then it sort of popped back up in an unexpected moment, for sure.
>> Yes, so let's talk about that.
So restruct, so you were working or playing in a creative space prior and
then perhaps your creativity dropped off?
(02:45):
What happened there?
>> Yeah, so I guess when I was little, I didn't think of it as creativity.
I just thought of it as play.
And my favorite ways to play were to draw or to write or to make music.
And so whenever I had a spare scrap of time, I was usually at the piano or
making a story or painting something.
And I was really lucky to grow up in a home where those things were embraced and
(03:10):
encouraged.
And so all through my childhood, I had lessons, I had wonderful teachers.
I went to school for music, I trained as a composer and a performer.
And after college, I was a professional musician for about a year.
And then for a variety of reasons, which I'd be glad to go into if you want.
(03:32):
But I wound up stopping and stopping completely and
building a completely separate career as a strategist in a entirely different
industry.
And I spent about seven years in what I thought was just a new chapter of life.
And what I realized now was actually sort of a deep creative burnout.
(03:53):
And I didn't expect it to ever end.
I thought that creativity and music and art and trying to do these things with a
high degree of intention was just something for the earlier phase of my life.
I thought that was over.
And so when I was in my late 20s and I had a career and I had kids and I had a
(04:15):
mortgage and I was living a very different life from the life of an artist that I'd
initially set out to live.
I suddenly started having this new surge of creative desire and these projects that
popped up that I wanted to work on.
And I started painting in the middle of the night and I started doing all these
really unexpected creative explorations that reminded me that I really wanted to go
(04:41):
back into that creative space.
But it sure didn't fit the new plan at all.
And so then I was sort of in this moment where I wasn't wanting to sacrifice all
the new roles and priorities I had.
But I wanted to sort of readopt this creative practice and creative identity
that was still important to me.
Wow.
There was so much there that I want to ask you about.
(05:04):
So much.
OK.
So you were in this creative career path and you veered away from that because
of burnout.
So does that mean that you were just putting out too much and not putting enough
back in?
Or like what do you think caused that burnout?
I think that was a big piece of it.
(05:25):
Yeah.
I think there was an imbalance in the way I was creating and the way I was enjoying
what I created and the play had sort of gotten sapped out of it for me and it
turned into something totally different than what it had been and what I had really
fallen in love with about being creative.
(05:45):
And now I look at it as a relationship with creativity, that we all have this
relationship with our creativity that is separate from the products of our
creativity and is separate from the perhaps the reception of our creativity
or the reviews we get on our creativity.
The relationship that we experience in our creative practice is its own aspect
(06:09):
that we have to tend carefully just like you would any relationship that's
important to you.
Right.
There are certain ways you would spend time in an important relationship.
You'd be sure to have fun in an important relationship.
There are ways you would think about and talk about and define yourself in
regard to an important relationship.
And looking back now I realized I was not doing that with my creativity when I
(06:33):
first started as a professional.
And so, yeah, what happened is I actually hit this moment where I felt like
there was this fork in the road where I could either continue trying to make it
in the creative world or I could build a life of financial stability and sort of
(06:56):
build the type of childhood for my children that I had had, which is one
where my parents were home with me.
My mom tucked this into bed at night and read us a story.
And at some point I had this sort of crisis and I realized I'm not going to
be able to do that with my kids because if I'm on a stage somewhere or on a tour
somewhere or whatever, I'm not going to be there for all those precious little
(07:17):
moments.
And also where I was in my career, where I was in the industry, I wasn't able
to create the sense of stability that I knew I wanted on some level.
And so music and art just wasn't affording me what I thought I wanted to
build an experience.
(07:38):
And so at that moment, because creativity was no longer fun and because it
wasn't bringing me the lifestyle that I was envisioning for my future, I decided
to step away from it.
And I was happy with that decision for quite a long time until I realized that
those creative dreams and visions and desires didn't go anywhere.
(08:00):
They just sort of sat in the background waiting to be listened to.
Yeah, wow.
That is so interesting.
And it's complex our relationship with creativity because as you said, it is a
relationship.
I love the fact that you sort of likened it to perhaps like a romantic
relationship, but whereas deeply, deeply personal.
And when you're constantly having to do it for other people and produce things
(08:24):
at the end rather than just play in the process, then it can get out of skew
like really quickly.
But that's really interesting.
I also think a couple of people on the podcast have mentioned the idea of
seasons as a relationship to your creativity where that was a season where
(08:45):
it was creativity was at the forefront and then it's OK for take that step back.
But eventually as all seasons keep progressing forward, you know, you're
going to somehow get back there again.
Yeah.
So so when you had this, you know, this the career as the strategist,
did you think about creativity at all?
Or were you just like, I just need a break from that?
(09:08):
It's not my focus at the moment.
Oh, yeah.
No, I definitely still made things.
I still enjoyed.
I still enjoyed playing at the piano to decompress or, you know,
drawing something for fun with my my kids.
But I think I had relegated it to this different category where I had sort of
said, OK, I'm not an artist, though, or I'm not a musician, though.
(09:32):
This is just a hobby.
This is just a small thing.
It's all very low stakes.
Like I don't want much out of this.
And I think that was a way to cope with the burnout and release the pressure and
just allow it to be this fun thing.
And probably at the time, that was the right medicine because it allowed me to
just get back into this easeful, kind of playful relationship with what I was making.
(09:56):
And I would say I created much less often.
You know, I think when I was young, I would play piano and make songs like daily.
It was something that I just couldn't stay away from.
And I think during my burnout, it was something that I would maybe once a month
I would go sit down and try to try to make something and wind up usually
(10:18):
getting a little frustrated or just deciding to cut it short.
And so it was a different type of practice and it didn't feel as
quite as fulfilling or wholehearted.
But it was still there sort of in drip drop levels throughout those years.
Yeah, wow.
It's interesting what you just said before about naming yourself as an artist
(10:39):
or as a musician, it's like an artist, capital A, musician, capital N.
You know, like your title.
Well, is that is that how you can make that separation that I'm, you know,
I'm I just do music versus I'm a musician that was able that gave you that separation.
Did it?
Yeah, I think at the time I needed some way to divorce my sense of success
(11:04):
as a person from whatever success or failure I was perceiving with my art.
And in in art school or in music school,
I think it's really easy to get those two things wrapped around each other so tightly
where if you're performing well or if the piece turns out nicely or whatever,
like you are fulfilling your role and you're a good capital A
(11:28):
artist or capital M musician.
And it puts a lot of pressure on the outcome.
I don't think that's a bad thing because I think it's important to hold ourselves
to a high standard and to strive for creating amazing things.
And the point of studying and training is to develop the techniques to do that.
And there has to be some critical feedback, right?
I don't think it's I don't think it's a bad thing.
(11:50):
But I do think it's a powerful thing in terms of how it shapes and shifts
the way you perceive yourself in relation to your artwork.
And so for me, music and art became this this title,
this noun that I had to like live up to.
And I think through recovering through burnout and reintegrating creativity
(12:14):
in a different way and rebuilding the relationship, I turned it back into a verb
of like, I'm going to paint, I'm going to make a song, I'm going to I'm going to sing
for a while instead of I'm going to go be a singer.
It's just a totally different energy for me and made it a lot more enjoyable.
And let me be back in it instead of,
you know, in the experience of doing it instead of analyzing the experience of doing it.
(12:37):
Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah, that that's really that's really interesting.
Oh, so interesting that it's it's such it's a mindset set shift for you to
change that.
And that's how you've changed your relationship, the creativity.
So so you're ticking along in this career in a not like non creative.
(12:58):
I'm using air quotes for anyone who's listening, audio, non creative career,
doing these little bits and pieces.
But you actually had a moment when you had a newborn baby and you felt like you
were restruct with your creativity.
Tell me tell me what that moment was and how that creativity was different to
(13:20):
the little bits and pieces you were doing throughout that time.
Yeah, I I had just given birth to my second son and he was tiny, teeny tiny.
We were still in the waking up in the middle of the night phase.
So we wake up and nurse like multiple times a night and he was he would fall
straight back to sleep and I would sit there awake in bed with nothing to do.
(13:42):
A dark house, everyone's sleeping, everything's quiet.
And the first thing that would pop to mind was like, I really want to go draw
something. And for a while, I thought this is probably just delirium.
I'm probably slowly deprived that I don't recognize this is a ridiculous time
to go get out like paints or pencil like this is not the moment.
(14:03):
Eventually, I just gave into it and I started keeping a pad next to my bed
and and the pen and and so when he would go back to sleep and I would stay awake,
I would just sort of start start drawing and start sketching things.
And I started I actually started sketching these mama and baby animals
(14:23):
and these little these little tender moments together.
And I I would start to sketch moments that I had experienced with my son that day.
These little precious newborn times that I didn't want to lose the memory of.
I would start to capture in these sketches and for moments with my toddler.
I also had a two year old at the time also running around.
(14:45):
And so he was also full of these really funny, fun, enjoyable
and also sometimes crazy and difficult and exhausting moments.
And in the ups and downs of all of that and also this upside downness
of just being in the throes of suddenly being a mom of two.
I think one way that I made sense of that was to capture the moments
(15:07):
that I really wanted to remember in these little sketches of these animals.
And so over a few months, I I created this collection that I just love
because now I look at it and it takes me right back to those little moments,
you know, three years ago when I was snuggling my little newborn
or chasing my toddler around the house and in in that practice,
(15:28):
in in this sort of like tidal wave of all these ideas and all these drawings coming out.
I realized that I was having so much fun and that I wanted to paint
and that I wanted to share this work with people and that I wanted to maybe put
the artist hat back on for a minute and think about whether these paintings
would mean anything to anyone else and would it help remind some other mom
(15:50):
of a tender moment she was enjoying with her little ones?
And so I started sharing them and connecting with people over the art
and it just sort of reignited this whole creative identity and practice
and desire and vision that had been dormant for a long time,
but felt really, really good to get back into.
But not the moment I would have chosen if I could have picked a moment
(16:14):
to suddenly learn, learn how to paint again and learn how to how to run
an art business and all of that probably would have timed it differently.
But it turned out it turned out well in the end.
Yeah, I can imagine it's you know, that saying if you want something done,
ask a busy person.
And yeah, that basically means the more you do, the more you can do.
(16:40):
And so you already have so much on your plate and probably very little personal time.
But you're like, I'm just going to squeeze this in and get work.
But what was like struck me when you're talking there was that
your creative expression at that time was just so born from this emotional
(17:04):
space where you are trying to remember these tender moments
and how you're feeling at that point in time.
And I think that's really important for creativity is that it is like
this deeply, deeply personal thing.
Yeah, it's a feel vulnerable doing things.
I know you're doing beautiful drawings of animals and things like that.
But it still feel kind of vulnerable because it's such an emotional thing.
(17:26):
It did. Yeah, I think there was also a piece there where I was sense making,
you know, this whole experience of becoming a mom or becoming a mother
of two or like it's this huge seismic shift.
And it's deeply disorienting.
(17:46):
It's like, what do you what do you anchor down into when everything
in your life is sort of uprooted and upended?
And so I think it was also a way for me to sort of choose
what to focus on and what I really wanted to take out of that really wild,
crazy season. And it is vulnerable.
It was personal and it was although it felt less personal
(18:10):
because I was drawing like, you know, pandas instead of myself.
Somehow that made it a little bit less revealing.
But yeah, I think there was also a piece there where I was I was struggling
with some postpartum anxiety.
I'd had a difficult experience with my first birth and my second birth,
brought a lot of that up.
(18:30):
And I think to focus on these moments of connection with my baby
or play with my children helped just bring me back to center a little bit
and and say, you know, whatever I'm afraid of in this moment
or whatever the season is bringing up for me and the fears that I'm facing as a mom,
I can still choose to focus on the things that are going right.
(18:53):
And these moments of bonding that I'm having.
And I think at some point there was this subconscious choice that like
that's what I wanted to carry out was the bonding.
I didn't want to remember all of the strife and fear and anxiety and and all of that,
which I think most new parents experience.
That was all there.
(19:14):
And that was a valid and important piece of that time.
The part that I really wanted to focus on and and keep for myself
was these tender little moments that I knew were fleeting.
So yeah, it is a really vulnerable collection of work.
But it really resonated with people and I found that a lot of them
it brought them back to some of these tender moments in their families.
(19:37):
And that was really rewarding for me.
Oh, that's lovely.
It sounds like it was kind of a cathartic experience for you as well.
And definitely from speaking with, you know, friends and family who've been
new parents like that it can really shake your sense of self
and your sense of like your identity.
(19:58):
And it's interesting to me that.
That was sort of happening to you, but you were refining or redefining
your identity back as becoming an artist again during that time.
That's just really interesting to me.
Yeah, no, that's been I think that's been huge in what's happened
(20:19):
in the three years since that sort of unexpected creative boom happened.
I think continuing to prioritize it has been an act of self care.
And self love to say, yes, I'm a mom.
Yes, I'm a strategist.
Yes, I'm a coach.
And I'm also going to go paint some stuff right now.
I'm going to go write a song.
(20:40):
I'm going to go record some music.
I think allowing that identity to flourish has been a huge help
in just rebalancing me in motherhood, but rebalancing our whole family.
I think it's great for my kids to get to see me go have fun making something
and and get to share it with them afterward.
(21:02):
And even if that means they can't knock on mom's studio door for 45 minutes
because she's got an idea she's working on and they're going to go play with dad
for a while, like even if it makes me unavailable to them for a slice of time.
I think it's worthwhile for them to see their parents prioritizing
and enjoying these things that are a different part of their identity
(21:24):
outside of parenthood.
Yes, I agree.
And them seeing you model like this almost self care,
you know, prioritizing your fun and your happiness is really important
because so many of our parents never did that
because there was this real sense of duty and people didn't have hobbies.
(21:46):
So I think.
Yeah, I think it's really great that you're doing that.
So what? Yeah.
What has the impact been since then?
So you said that you've started to do some of this work
and you're selling it to other people.
But yeah, are you working in creativity in the full full time?
Or are you? Yeah, yeah.
(22:07):
Actually, how what does it look like?
Yeah, no, it's.
It's a mix. It's a mix.
I definitely enjoy.
I haven't I haven't recorded music in a long time.
That's one thing I haven't done professionally in a while.
Although I am having fun writing it more now than I have in a long time.
I have some exciting projects that I'm looking forward to releasing sometime
(22:30):
eventually, non-committal answer here.
No timeline has been recorded on this podcast.
Yeah, but paintings I love.
So I've been selling artwork for a few years now about about two and a half years.
And at this point, all of my sales are direct to collector online.
I connect to the most of my collectors on Instagram.
(22:51):
It's a really fun operation, actually, because now my oldest son is old enough
to participate in that.
So he'll sometimes help me pack orders or he'll help me run them down to the post office.
And it's been really neat to have his help and him get to see the inside
of kind of a small art business and how that's run.
So it's a blast.
(23:12):
And then creativity coaching has has also joined the mix as I sort of developed
the framework in my own life about how to reintegrate creativity
and how to balance it with all the other things that I was prioritizing as a mom
and as a, you know, having a career, etc., etc.
(23:33):
I started to help other people do that as well.
And so now that's that's a huge piece of my focus and something I am really
passionate about and love to do.
And then I also.
Yeah, no, go ahead.
Oh, I was going to say like that the creative coaching that's so interesting.
So you've taken your experience of this and you're translating it to help
(23:56):
others do the same like what does that what does that look like?
Yeah, I find that there are a lot of people who are deeply skilled and passionate
and have this creative vision or this project that they want to bring into being.
But they feel like they're trapped and they can't do it because they feel
like they don't have the time or the space or, you know,
(24:18):
for many of us, we built our lives around a certain degree of financial
stability that we're not willing to sacrifice to just drop everything and
go be an artist.
I'm not willing or not able.
And so a lot of the people that I work with want help bridging the gap
between this creative work that they know they want to do, that they feel called to do
(24:38):
and the tangible daily actions that they can actually take to do that
and how that creative work can fit in with all these other hats that they wear.
I love I love sitting down with people and taking an inventory of what they want
to do with their creativity, what they want to experience with it,
what creative fulfillment would look like to them.
(25:01):
And then talk about how they can do that now in their real life.
And yeah, there's a framework as a process.
We walk through to do that and help them bring it in in a very real and fulfilling way.
And that that's the work that really lights me up right now,
because it's just so fun to watch this this fulfilled
(25:24):
experience be contagious and watch other people start to do it too.
It's it's really rewarding.
Yeah, I can imagine I I, you know, you've done the hard work of doing it yourself
in your in your life.
And now you're helping other people realize that too.
That must be a fantastic feeling.
It's great.
(25:44):
It's really fun.
And one of the most fun pieces is that I work with a range of people.
So I get to I talk with painters and illustrators and musicians and writers.
And the other day, I got to learn a ton about metal working
because I was working with a jeweler.
And I don't know the first thing about jewelry making.
But, you know, we were talking through her process and what it would take for her
(26:06):
to actually create this brand new collection that she has had on her mind for a long time.
And so she was talking to me about the mechanics of like the tools and equipment
she needed to do it and how that was or wasn't compatible with her newborn baby
that she was also now, you know, mother to.
And and as we were talking through all of that, I got to learn a tremendous amount
about what it's like to be a jeweler.
(26:27):
So that's a really fun part of the gig as well, learning about all these different crafts.
I bet it and it's it's cool that it's a it's a process that translates
to all these different mediums.
Like it I guess it's the same mechanics of it all.
It doesn't matter what sense part of creativity you apply it to.
(26:50):
Yeah, because I like to take it back to the root of the relationship
a person has with their creativity and that can apply in all sorts of different domains.
So and there are also people who are sort of multidisciplinary, like myself,
who might be an author and an illustrator or whatever.
And yeah, I find that there are some truths and some principles
(27:13):
that can help help most people no matter
no matter what their actual creative practice or discipline looks like.
Yeah. So you've reintroduced creativity into your life.
You're helping other people get it back into their lives.
Are you feeling creatively fulfilled now?
Or is this do you still have a creative itch that you are looking to scratch at some point?
(27:39):
Well, I have projects I'm excited to work on
and I always have more projects than I have time in the day to work on.
But no, I do feel extremely fulfilled because I think that's the piece of it.
I have to guard really carefully, especially the more projects I get to
start and the more clients I get to work with.
I feel like it's more and more important for me to protect the time
(27:59):
to just have that that free creative space.
I always recommend that people carve out 60 minutes a day,
which sounds like a lot before you do it, but it's not that much really.
Sixty minutes a day where they have absolutely no
expectations for what they're going to produce,
where they just get to go have fun, they just get to go play.
(28:22):
They don't have any interruptions
and they get to go explore and do whatever it is
that's going to bring them fulfillment on that given day and that given moment.
And I find that when I maintain that practice, I call it my golden hour.
That's what I call it just because it's sort of this like glowing, precious part of my day.
But when I uphold that golden hour and I uphold that rhythm,
(28:46):
it gives me a lot of opportunity to do whatever is going to bring me fulfillment
in that moment and it hasn't failed me yet.
It's been a really healthy thing for me over the past few years.
Yes, that's a great tip.
And yeah, it does sound like 60 minutes an hour.
That sounds like a lot of time, but, you know,
(29:07):
we probably spend way more of that just doom scrolling on our phones or doing something else.
For sure.
Make us feel as good.
Yeah, you know, I really benefited from swapping out the term.
I don't have time with the phrase, it's not a priority.
(29:28):
Because when I would tell myself, oh, you know, I don't have time to go draw.
If I would say it's not a priority to go draw, then sometimes that's true.
Like there are days where, yeah, it's not a priority to go draw.
But when you make that that swap of phrases, it gets you really clear
on where you're making priority calls and blaming it on bandwidth.
(29:49):
You know, I don't have time to go play Legos with my kid right now.
Well, it's not a priority to go play Legos with my kid.
I don't have time to go reach out to that perspective, you know,
collector of my work.
Well, no, it's not a priority.
Or if it is a priority, maybe there's something else there
that's keeping you from doing it.
So yeah, it's there is time there.
(30:11):
It just has to become an intentional practice around how we spend that time.
That swap of language is really
powerful because if you say because it if you say it's not a prior
to do that, that either hits you in the gut, being like, Oh, my gosh,
did I just say that?
Or you go, actually, no, it's not a priority.
(30:33):
If it comes out and it feels wrong, then you've made it.
Exactly.
It gives you your own gut check.
As soon as you say it, you know whether that's true or not.
Right.
And so as soon as I started asking myself what the priorities really were,
then, you know, it becomes pretty clear how you can build your day
around what your priorities truly are.
Yeah. Yeah. Wow.
(30:54):
Oh, my gosh. Such an interesting story and lots of great tips and takeaways there.
Thank you so much for joining me, Lauren.
That was a really cool chat.
Thanks for having me.
This is a blast.
And what I'll do is I'll pop in the show notes, the link to your website,
where there is some beautiful artwork on there.
Your drawings are just fantastic.
(31:16):
And there's also the information about your creative coaching
and all the other beautiful things that you're doing.
But I also want to say thank you to everyone who's tuned in to Creativity (31:23):
Uncovered today.
If you enjoyed this episode, please, wherever you're listening now or watching now,
jump on and give us a rating or review because this helps other people find this podcast
and share our message with more people.
And as always, if this episode has creatively inspired you, do get in touch.
(31:45):
I love to hear what it inspires you to do.
And then I hope it helps you some in creativity the next time that you need it.
Thanks and take care.
. If you've made it this far,
(32:25):
a huge thank you for your support and tuning into today's episode.
Creativity (32:29):
Uncovered has been lovingly recorded on the land of the Kabi Kabi people
and we pay our respects to elders past, present and emerging.
This podcast has been produced by my amazing team here at Crisp Communications
and the music you just heard was composed by James Gatling.
(32:50):
If you liked this episode, please do share it around
and help us on our mission to unlock more creativity in this world.
You can also hit subscribe so you don't miss out on any new episode releases.
(gentle music)
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