September 15, 2025 • 43 mins
They called it Fox Hollow Farm, a quiet estate tucked away in the Indiana woods. By day, its owner, Herb Baumeister, was a family man, a businessman, someone who seemed perfectly ordinary. But at night, shadows lengthened, and secrets began to stir. Men vanished, whispers grew louder, and a chilling pattern emerged—one that would forever stain the ground where the farmhouse stood. What lay hidden beneath the surface was far darker than anyone could have imagined. As investigators began to connect the dots, they uncovered a chilling story that would leave a community shaken and questioning how well we ever truly know the people living next door.
SOURCES:
1) UPI Focus: Sheriffs link 9 deaths to Indiana man
2) Cold cases: Lyons homicide not only unsolved investigation
3) Bone found during Sunday search of Herbert Baumeister property
4) Remains found on serial killer's Indiana estate identified as man missing since 1993
5) While Julie Was Away
6) The Hunter of Fox Hollow: Part One
7) 'Several Tragedies' Still Left in Fox Hollow Farm Serial Killer Case, Coroner Says
8) 10th victim identified in Fox Hollow Farm serial killer case in Indiana
9) Encyclopedia of Indianapolis: Herbert R. Baumeister
10) Fox Hollow Farm in Westfield was home to Herb Baumeister, suspected serial killer
11) Where is Herb Baumeister’s wife Julie Baumeister and their children now?
12) Julie Baumeister: Where is Herbert Baumeister’s Ex-Wife Now?
13) Herb Baumeister’s killing field and the new effort to identify his victims: Forgotten at Fox Hollow
14) Herb Baumeister “The I-70 Strangler”
15) The True Story Of The Fox Hollow Murders
16) After 29 years, another victim of suspected serial killer Herb Baumeister identified after burned remains found at farm
17) Who Was Herb Baumeister? Revisiting the Serial Killer's Crimes and Horrifying Post-Murder Rituals 29 Years After His Death
18) A new push may finally identify all the victims of Indiana serial killer Herbert Baumeister
19) This private investigator cracked the case of notorious serial killer Herbert
SOURCES:
1) UPI Focus: Sheriffs link 9 deaths to Indiana man
2) Cold cases: Lyons homicide not only unsolved investigation
3) Bone found during Sunday search of Herbert Baumeister property
4) Remains found on serial killer's Indiana estate identified as man missing since 1993
5) While Julie Was Away
6) The Hunter of Fox Hollow: Part One
7) 'Several Tragedies' Still Left in Fox Hollow Farm Serial Killer Case, Coroner Says
8) 10th victim identified in Fox Hollow Farm serial killer case in Indiana
9) Encyclopedia of Indianapolis: Herbert R. Baumeister
10) Fox Hollow Farm in Westfield was home to Herb Baumeister, suspected serial killer
11) Where is Herb Baumeister’s wife Julie Baumeister and their children now?
12) Julie Baumeister: Where is Herbert Baumeister’s Ex-Wife Now?
13) Herb Baumeister’s killing field and the new effort to identify his victims: Forgotten at Fox Hollow
14) Herb Baumeister “The I-70 Strangler”
15) The True Story Of The Fox Hollow Murders
16) After 29 years, another victim of suspected serial killer Herb Baumeister identified after burned remains found at farm
17) Who Was Herb Baumeister? Revisiting the Serial Killer's Crimes and Horrifying Post-Murder Rituals 29 Years After His Death
18) A new push may finally identify all the victims of Indiana serial killer Herbert Baumeister
19) This private investigator cracked the case of notorious serial killer Herbert
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
This episode MA contained content of a graphic nature, including
descriptions of physical and sexual violence against adults, children, and animals.
Listener discretion is advised. Hi, this is Tanya. Hi, this
(00:37):
is Shannon, and we are Crimes and Consequences, a hardcore
true crime podcast. Hey Shannon, Hey Tanya, how are you doing.
I'm doing great, fabulous, couldn't be better.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yeah, I have a funny things.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
So, okay, I got these indoor security cameras right for Levi.
The one's over his crib. I got one in the
living room. I got a pack of four for a
decent price. I love it. I love being able to
pop over his crib and see how he's if he's
fussing stuff like that. Right.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
The one in the living room.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Is just straight on to like the couch, right, so
it's right under the TV that's mounted on the wall.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
And you know, when I go through it, it's just
usually me holding Levi.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
It's just who's ever holding Levi on the couch in
this certain spot is being recorded? Well, I forget and
I have given my daughter access to the course. The
camera's in the house, so she had left over to
her boyfriend's I got the boy down for the evening.
You know, Levi's down, He's good. I'm watching TV, you know,
(01:45):
and my usual Grandma's by herself. I'm a little high,
you know. I have my little ad d stems where
like I'll just hold my arm over my head and
let it hang in the air while I'm reading my
you know, I'm scrolling and I remember that the camera's on.
Like usually I turn it away for the evening, it's
(02:08):
just for whatever. I realized the freaking camera's been on,
and it made me think of that King of Queen's
episode where they had a camera on Arthur downstairs but
he didn't know it. I'm like, oh my gosh, our
Brook and Tony watching me scroll through my phone. I mean,
why wouldn't it's in our nature to watch, you know.
(02:33):
So I was like, oh, jeezu Lou, I cannot. I
don't want to jump up and turn the camera in
case they are watching, you know, I would just make
it weird, so stupid. So I'm rethinking the living room camera.
You know, I have four so one grown child and
(02:55):
one grandchild. I don't know how many cameras I need.
So that's my story. I had Arthur Spooner fearful bone.
Not a fear filled moment, just awkward.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
So what about girl?
Speaker 1 (03:09):
You know, I went to Chicago this past weekend with
my daughter. Her favorite K pop band was performing, and
it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
It was very sounded like fun. You're such a great mom.
I love that you just hop in the car.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, I'm like, road trip, that's right, road trip concert Chicago.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
We were driving home and we were started talking about
my mom and I'm like, you know, Nana loved a
road trip like my mom loved going on road trips.
I'm like, I love a road trip too. So going
to Chicago Friday, we drove there. Saturday, we came home
and I worked in the car on our drive there,
(03:48):
and I used my phone as a hot spot.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Isn't I love?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
I know it's one of the highlights of the time
we're living in now. Oh too much technology?
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I know. It was great.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
All I want in the time that I live in
as a woman is deodorant, tampons, and a good Wi Fi.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
A good Wi Fi. Oh yeah, well that's cool.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah. So I have a crazy story for you today.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Tell me.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
And it's a pretty famous one, like it's well known,
but I don't know if you've heard this story or not.
So it is about Herb Baumeister. Have you heard this one?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
It is not bringing about Baumeister. Does not roll off
the tongue, No, it doesn't Herb.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah, well, I'm going to tell you about this weirdo.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Okay please.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
The Midwest of the US is known as the Heartland, right,
and we live in the Midwest.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
And in the Midwest it's a major agricultural and industrial center.
Embracing this status, the region is also known to associate
itself with traditional American values, and Indiana lies within the
Heartland and boasts a diverse landscape, including forests and farmlands,
but also including several automotive manufacturing plants, much like Michigan.
(05:11):
During the eighties and nineties, there was a large population
boom around the capital, which is Indianapolis, which is where
our story takes place. Due to the efforts of the
mayor and his desire to increase sports tourism, the city
acquired the Baltimore Colts, a football team at the time,
and they hosted the nineteen eighty seven Pan American Games.
(05:32):
While the city's population boomed, a new demographic of people
were moving in. People frequenting the downtown areas had traditionally
been businessmen, and when those men would go home to
their wives, the city practically closed itself at five o'clock.
But then the nightclubs began popping up all around the city,
and they were gay nightclubs in particular. These gay bars
(05:56):
were a sanctuary for the community that they served. Outside
of the walls of those nightclubs, there wasn't much support
for the gay community, and many of the people of
Indianapolis felt pressure to accept the gay community, which contradicted
their conservative American values that you know, the heartland this
(06:18):
you know reputation.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah, you don't absolutely engage in gay sex openly.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
That's for behind closed doors. And this is like the
aid for others.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Right, and this is the eighties and nineties, and you know,
people were still quite uptight, very well. With the entrance
of the gay community to the city and headlines about
the AIDS crisis, you know, they became more meaningful as
homosexual men began to report missing from the club scene.
The police tended to dismiss the claims, often using the
(06:48):
AIDS epidemic as an excuse, saying, oh, they must have
gotten sick and they just don't go to the bars anymore.
But this was becoming an issue. They were being reported
missing and they were not really investigated well when the
victims were gay. It became a population that the police
really didn't put a lot of resources toward.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Yeah, that's sad, like how they deal with like prostitutes
and name Americans, you know, the right, they're deemed not
good enough to write invest in resources.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Right, Yeah, it's not like a blond white girl that
went missing, sure, exactly. So members of the gay community
were instead being targeted by law enforcement. They got tickets
for loitering or a male prostitution when stepping outside of
the bar. Like, they were just targeted and they didn't
feel safe. But the community was close knit, even if
the police were providing the missing and murdered men with
(07:43):
lazy investigations. The nightclubs provided a place for family and
friends to hang posters seeking information about their loved ones
who had disappeared, and bodies began littering the Highway I seventy.
As the number of missing and murdered gay men increased
emerged in fears of serial killer developed. So this is
(08:04):
the backdrop in front of which a report was made
to the Indianapolis authorities from a gay man named Mark
Goodyear one summer in the mid nineties. The night before,
Mark had seen a man at the bar that he
didn't recognize, staring at the wanted poster for a missing
man named Roger good Leut. Approaching the stranger, he introduced
(08:25):
himself as Tony Harris, using an alias in an attempt
to disguise who he was in the LGBTQ climate of
the time, and asked the stranger if he knew Roger.
The man answered no, he didn't. Then he asked the
man's name, and he said Brian Smart. So after spending
time together at the bar, Brian asked his new companion
(08:46):
Tony if he would want to go to his employer's
home to swim in the indoor pool and said, you know,
we can take supparate cars. So Tony said sure, but
he said we don't have to take two separate cars.
We can take one. He wanted his car left at
the bar in case he went missing, like so many
others had. He wanted someone to know, you know, looking
(09:07):
for him. So Tony got into Brian's car and they
drove in relative silence. Not for the lack of trying
on Tony's part, but Brian really didn't seem interested in
the two getting to know each other. They pulled into
the driveway of the name of the place was something
farm Tony would recall to the police. They drove down
the long entrance of an eighteen acre property, ending at
(09:31):
the front door of a tutor style mansion. Brian told
his guests that the power was off on the ground level,
but was still on in the basement where the pool was,
which a basement pool seems kind.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Of creepy right.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Going through the garage and down a set of stairs,
they reached the swimming pool in the basement. Upon reaching
the pool, Tony saw pool toys, a fully stocked bar,
and the weirdest of all. You're never going to guess
what I'm gonna say next, a bunch of posed mannequins.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I was close because I was gonna say, blow up.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Now you were close. Oh, One was just as a
woman modeled to reach into a cabinet. One was sitting
beside the pool dressed as a lifeguard, and others set
up just as other people by the water, enjoying like
a pool day. So Tony went into the changing room
to put on a swimsuit, and he came out shortly
(10:27):
to join Brian at the pool. After swimming around for
a bit, Brian started talking about his erratic fetishes, including
using autoerotic asphyxiation and strangulation. Then he asked Tony if
he'd like to see a quote unquote neat trick. Brian
described how squeezing somebody's neck and cutting off circulation to
(10:48):
the brain during sex can cause an extremely intense orgasm,
and asked if Tony would like to try it. Tony agreed,
and Brian took the pool hose that had been floating
in the water near the men and began wrapping it
around Tony's neck, tightening it slowly until he was strangling
his date. As the hoes got tighter, Tony realized that
(11:08):
Brian wasn't letting up, and realizing he might die, he
decided to pretend to pass out, going limp in the water.
Brian slowly let up, and after a few seconds, the
would be victim startled his attempted murderer by opening his eyes.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
We should have had a safe word.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
YEA in that moment, yeah, in that moment, it clicked
Tony accused Brian of being the man causing the disappearances.
He told Brian he was going to go to the police,
and Brian retorted, no one is going to believe a
person like you. So Tony realized he was correct about
the sacondation instead of being like, what the fuck are
(11:50):
you talking about? Right, the police hadn't shown interest in
the disappearances so far. He also knew he wasn't going
to help anyone else unless he got out of there alive,
so he decided to play along. The men drank their
fill from the full bar by the pool and partied
until Brian passed out. The following morning, Brian took Tony
(12:10):
back to his car outside the nightclub, saying goodbye. Brian
told Tony he'd love to see him again, and on
his way home, Mark Goodyear stopped by the Indianapolis Police Department,
which this seems really odd to me that he just
like let the guy go. Sitting down with a couple
of officers, he told him about the man. Brian smart
he lived in a mansion in Hamilton County and was
(12:33):
picking up gay men at the bars and strangling them. However,
Mark couldn't give an exact description of the home and property.
The clearest description he could come up with for the
estate was the sign at the entrance had the name
something Farm.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
This would be extremely useful.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Except the street the estate had been built on was
a road lined with farms. The police told him to
keep an eye out for the man again when he
went to the bar, and maybe try to get a
license plate number next time. The opportunity finally arose in
the spring of nineteen ninety five when Tony found Brian
Smart once again. That evening, Tony asked friend of his
(13:11):
to go outside and write it down, afraid of drawing
Brian's eye to him if he were to go and
get it himself. When it was handed over to the
Indianapolis Missing Persons, the detective assigned to the case ran
it through the DMV database. The man they were looking
for was named Herbert R. Baumeister of Fox Hollow Farm.
The authorities immediately drove over to the Save a Latte
(13:33):
thrift store, which was owned by Herb Baumeister and his
wife to question him. Oh Yes, a new twist. When
the detective arrived, she approached the counter and asked to
speak to the owner, Herb appeared shaking detective's hand, and
then she bluntly asked if he had ever visited any
of the gay nightclubs downtown, which, of course, he adamantly denied.
(13:58):
She told Herb that multiple witnesses had placed him at
the clubs several times, and she had gotten his license
plate number from one of those eyewitnesses. Knowing he couldn't
reasonably deny it anymore, he admitted that he did visit
the bars occasionally and his family didn't know about it.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Obviously, sure yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Accepting this as a likely truth of several, if not many,
of the men participating in the Indianapolis gay nightclub scene,
she shifted her approach to the detective, explaining she was
investigating the disappearance of some missing men from the bars
he visited. She indicated she felt he might know something
or be involved in some way. Then she asked if
(14:39):
the police search his property. HERB denied involvement in the
disappearances and murders. He said that any further question should
be said to his lawyer, a well known criminal defense
attorney in Indianapolis. When he went home, he told his
wife that a disgruntled former employee was making false claims
against him to the police, and they needed to be
(14:59):
very careful. And this didn't alarm her. They had been
business owners for many years and she knew an unhappy
employee would come along causing trouble sooner or later. When
the detective went back to the police station, she called
the attorney's office, who replied saying he didn't know or
represent Herbert Baummeister. The detective who went back to the
(15:20):
store and confronted Herb about the attorney's response, but then
Herb doubled down, insisting that he was being represented by
this attorney. She completed the check again and was again
shut down by the attorney saying Nope, we don't represent him.
So frustrated, annoyed, and ready to be the bad cop,
she went back to the Save a Lot, only to
(15:41):
be told that Herb had just gotten a retainer to
the law office, which called the lawyers for the third time.
She was told no, you cannot search mister Baumeister's property.
The detective was certain her suspect was involved in at
least some of the disappearances.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah resolved, she went to a.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Forensic anthropologist who suggested lying over Fox Hollow Farm in
a helicopter fitted with an infrared camera to see heat
from bodies possibly decomposing on the property. I know, I
didn't know that was a thing me. Either No evidence
was found, either there were no decomposed bodies, or it
had been too long since a body had been placed
(16:19):
there and it was no longer emitting heat, so she
was going to have to find another way. In November
nineteen ninety five, thirteen year old Eric Baumeister was playing
in a wooded area of Fox Hollows, underdeveloped eighteen acres,
just outside what would be considered the backyard. While playing,
he came across a pile of partially buried bones. Curious
(16:41):
about what he found, he grabbed the skull and took
it to his mother, Julie. Unsettled, she asked Eric to
take her to the area of the yard where he'd
been playing, where she saw the same pile of remains.
I know, this is fucking freaky things. Yeah. Later that
day she would bring up the discovery to her husband, Herb,
who would dismiss her concerns, telling her that those were
(17:02):
bones of an old medical school skeleton owned by his father,
doctor Herbert Ebaumeister. Julie's father in law, and her father
in law had been an anesthesiologist, so it wasn't a stretch.
Herb told his wife the skeleton had been made of
human bones, possibly as old as the eighteen hundreds, so
he'd felt it only proper to bury them rather than
(17:24):
throw them in the trash.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
I know, makes a hole a little deeper so your
son doesn't stumble across the.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Skull, right.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Julie had been married to her for twenty three years,
so she was aware he was a little odd, and
so she was able to put the incident, this incident
like to the side out of.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Her chalk it up as yep, something herbs working on. Right.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Just a few days later, she went out in the
yard and she noticed that the bones her son had
found were gone and probably taken by an animal, is
what she thought. Unknown to Julie at the time, he
was surrounded by dozens of other piles of fragments just
like the one Eric had found. Two years later, in
nineteen ninety six, the police would bring excavators, cadaver dogs,
(18:11):
and officers to do a thorough sweep, eventually finding more
than ten thousand bones and belonging to an estimated twenty
five victims, of which only ten victims have been identified
as of today. Oh my goodness, I'll tell you a
little bit about our little buddy.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Herb, Herb, Herb, Herb.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Herb Richard Baumeister was born in Indianapolis on April seventh,
nineteen forty seven, making him a series series aes. He
was born to doctor Herbert Eugene and Elizabeth Schmidt Baumeister,
the oldest of four. His childhood was normal. However, beginning
(18:53):
in adolescence, Herb began having issues fitting in and showed
signs of anti social behavior. During his time at North
Central High School. He would show curiosity in dead animals
and quote, ponder what it would be like to taste
human urine? End quote. Not your usual teenage activities.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Little ditty party, didty party?
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Oh it sounds like someone's on their way to a
ditty party.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Into a freak off.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
At one point, he both urinated and left a dead
bird on the desk of one of his teachers. After
that incident and a series of outbursts during class time,
the school reached out to his parents for intervention. Tests
were done, and the young man was ultimately diagnosed with
paranoid schizophrenia and antisocial personality disorder. There are no records
(19:46):
indicating he received treatment for either condition. He seemed to
lead a normal life for a little while, although he
was unable or uninterested in making friends due to his
morbid interests. He enrolled in college at Indiana University in
nineteen sixty five. Ultimately, though he dropped out his first semester,
he would try again, enrolling in nineteen sixty seven, although
(20:09):
he would never graduate. It was during his second attempt
at higher education that he met Juliana Satyr, his future wife.
The couple married in nineteen seventy one. Interestingly, that same year,
before they would marry, herb would be involuntarily committed by
his father for undisclosed reasons. The couple would go on
(20:33):
to have three children. However, Julie would eventually say that
during their over twenty five years of marriage, she would
only be intimate with her husband six times and she
never saw him naked.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Oh boy, six times in twenty five years? What is that?
That is outstanding?
Speaker 1 (20:52):
And they got pregnant three times, that's it's fertile.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
It's a wild, yes, wild statistic.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
You just don't know people's married situations. You know what
kind of contract they've made with each other.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Sure, on the outside were this, But on the inside
he has his tax at jeremy studio that he might
masturbate in.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
And this is my home life.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Hey got his mannequins by the pool.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Oh my gosh, I did forget about the mannquins.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Don't forget about the mannikins.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Ye.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Six months after being married, Herb was again committed by
his father, this time for two months. Julie excused the incident,
explaining that Herb's struggles with depression had reached a point
where he was simply hurting and needed help. But Herb
was an amazing father. He doted on their children, showering
them with attention. He took part in all aspects of childcare,
(21:54):
sharing the parental load with Julie. He would participate in
everything from choosing the children's squ ruols to making meals
and shopping for clothes in gifts. During his marriage, Herb
worked a series of odd jobs until he was eventually
hired at the Indiana State Bureau of Motor Vehicles. With
the steady income in Julie's work teaching high school English,
(22:17):
his family was able to afford a middle class home
in the Indiana suburbs. Neighbors described the couple as a
bit odd, but remembered Herb in particular to have been
highly energetic and excitable. His eccentricities were on full display
for his neighbors as he regularly would hand out coverless magazines.
(22:38):
Herb would participate in a scam, taking advantage of a
business policy of stripped cover returns, where sellers were eligible
for money back on unsold magazines and comic books if
they provided the covers of the publications as proof to
the distributor that they had been destroyed instead of sold.
Herb would dumpster dive for the man magazines at his
(23:00):
local croker, which had a habit of throwing them away
without stripping the covers. Taking advantage, Herb would grab the
magazines with the covers, bring them back home, remove the covers,
and then hand them out to people he would see
in a subdivision.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Oh my gosh, mom, you want to copy a red book?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Doesn't have the.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Cover, but yeah, the June issue. It doesn't have the cover,
but it's all there.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
But herb our neighbor was passing them out. You might
like it.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Occasionally, a neighbor would decline his offer of free coverless magazines,
which would annoy him to no end and had led
to him lashing out in front of several neighbors and guests.
Another incident took place where Herb took on the responsibility
of hiring contractors to build the landscaped signs at the
(23:48):
entrance to their subdivision. After the new sign was built,
Herb took it upon himself to place extravagant flower pots
on top of the sign, which the HOA asked him
to remove. Herb raged about how much work he'd put
into the project and he deserved to put whatever flowers
wherever he wanted, which was not what was agreed upon
when he took the job. Great eccentric Yes in nineteen
(24:14):
eighty five. Herb had been at the Bureau of Motor
Vehicles for a number of years, having worked his way
up to a supervisor position. Employees there had described him
as being quote a perfectionist given to sudden, unprovoked rages unquote. Eventually,
he was fired after he was caught urinating on a
letter addressed to the governor.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
That'll do it every time, Herb, come on, what the
fuck now?
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Out of work, Herb began going to gay bars in
Indianapolis to drink. During this time, he was arrested for
a hit and run accident while drunk and conspiracy to
commit theft, and both charges were dropped. Eventually, Herb was
able to find work at thrift store. This environment suited him,
and in nineteen eighty eight, he borrowed money from his
(25:05):
mom to open the first of three thrift stores, called
Save a Lot. The stores would turn enough of a
profit to give thousands annually to a charity benefiting neglected children.
The success of the business still let for his pride,
and the couple decided to open another location. It was
during the opening of the second store that strain and
the family began to show. This location wasn't as successful
(25:26):
as the first, and the hours that were required between
the two locations were long. This, coupled with the pressure
of parenting and some financial issues, led to Herb moving
out in February nineteen ninety one and filing for divorce.
This didn't last long. By November, Herb and Julie had
chosen to try to work things out, and at this
time the couple put down money on the four bedroom,
(25:48):
eighteen acre estate called.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Fox Hollow Farm.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
In January nineteen ninety two, the purchase of the Tudor
style mansion with an indoor pool was complete. The asking
price for the home was nine hundred and seventy nine
thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Oh my gosh in nineteen ninety two that I was
just saying nine, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
With two thrift stores in one location struggling, this purchase
did little to help the couple's finances. Herb's mental and
emotional volatility was showing as he became more and more
unpredictable around his employees, leading to a revolving door of workers.
This caused the environment in the story to become more
disorganized and dirtier. Cash flow was a erratic and their
(26:31):
home life began to fall apart. Julia and the children
began spending extra time at her mother in law's condo
on Lake Wawasee. She would leave Herb to look after
the stores, and without his wife there, he would also
be frequenting the gay bars. By the time the skull
was found on the property in November nineteen ninety four,
the craks in the marriage had become cavernous. In the
(26:54):
fall of nineteen ninety five. It had been about a
year since the skull had been found on Julie Moummeister's property. Police,
having been unsuccessful in obtaining permission from HERB to search
Fox Hollow Farm, decided to approach his wife. Julie was
on indeed, and could also authorize a search of the property.
Approaching missus Baummeister at the second save a lot location
(27:17):
on the north side of Indianapolis, the detective explained that
there had been several men connected to the gay community
who disappeared throughout Indianapolis. They informed her that her husband's
car had been spotted at a gay bar and suggested
HERB might be involved. Julie was angry and shaken when
she told them HERB was not violent and had never
ever accidentally given her an injury or bruise. After twenty
(27:39):
five years together, there was no way he was involved.
She did not consent to a search that day, and
when HERB got home, she told her husband about the
detectives coming to their home. He dismissed the claims of
the police, telling her that this was all to do
with the former employee who was out to get him.
As time progressed, Herb began day drinking while he worked
(27:59):
at the store, and Julie filed for divorce in January
nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
The calls didn't do it, his odd behavior, didn't write.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
But that day drinking, I'm I'm out.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
I'm out.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Six times of sex in twenty five years, but the
day drinking.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
That was the final straw.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
What you were saying about, like how the police how
She was like, Look, I've been married him for twenty
he's never even hurt me.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, he's not into the gene.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Then, yeah, that's why jeels okay, because you have parts
he don't like.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
That's all. That's why he's never hurt you. He doesn't
know what to do with you.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yes, exactly. She took the kids to stay close by
at a house in Carmel, Indiana.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Herb had taken.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
To disappearing for periods of time, and Julie had never
inquired where he'd been. The police had hoped that time
would have been what Julie needed to convince her to
let them search, and they came back in April, but
Julie still refused to let them in. However, during the
last week of June, the situation completely changed. Both of
the stores closed within that month, and Julie had filed
(29:12):
for divorce. On June twenty third, she revealed to her
attorney that Eric had found bones on the property. She
also disclosed that they had only had sex six times
during their twenty five year marriage. During the divorce now,
the first hearing had been scheduled and it was about
custody of the kids, and herb missed it, so Julie
(29:33):
was awarded emergency custody of the kids and a protective
order against her husband when she didn't hear from him.
After court, Julie finally allowed the police on to the
property on June twenty fifth, nineteen ninety six. Within seconds
on the property, the authorities were unearthing remains, pieces of clothing,
shotgun shells, and restraints. The wooded area Eric had found
(29:56):
the scullen was a relative cemetery, with el eleven complete
sets of skeletons being pulled from the edge of the woods.
Jullie was taken in for an interview with law enforcement
on June twenty sixth, nineteen ninety six, during which she
admitted that her husband was strange.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yeah, no shit, sherlock.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
The mannequins that Mark had said were posed within the
poolhouse during his police interview, Julie said had been posed
on their patio many times as well. HERB told her
that it made it feel like there was a party
going on, but that was just the light side of
her husband.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
In HERB. Yeah, it was whimsical, that's.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
A great word, but he also had a dark side,
she admitted.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Ultimately, our family has always been based on my world
being pretty much controlled by HERB. Julie told detectives he
was and still is a very mean man who can
do very mean things to people. End quote. She admitted
to feeling the need to walk on eggshells around her
husband as their marriage progressed and his bouts of rage
(31:10):
became more and more frequent and less predictable. She'd wanted
to allow the police to search the property, but feared
her would retaliate, and she didn't want to be subject
to his temper. Julie was also aware that her husband
had developed a habit of disappearing for hours at first
near the beginning of their marriage, coming home with mud
in the wheel wells of his tires or unexplained injuries.
(31:32):
As their marriage progressed. His disappearances began to be lengthier.
He would go missing for days or weeks at a time.
Julie never asked where he went or what he was doing. Girl,
I would be so far up his.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Liay Tanya, I was just fucking thinking that.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
I thought you are gone for more than if you're
say you're going to be back a fucking five. I
expect I'm relying on your words. You'd tell me to
bet five two three or six days, two weeks. You
should be afraid to come home to me. I'm gonna
tell you that right now.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
I know.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Fuck you're crazy. You ain't seem crazy.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
I won't be ignored, Dan, Yeah right, you know I
love gun clothes.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
I won't be ignored.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Oh that is that's crazy behavior. Yes, you can't be
up to good stuff if your if your wife's missing you,
if your spouse is missing you and you don't tell
her a shit, you can't be.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Up to good things. You're not helping the poor.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
How is she not asking?
Speaker 2 (32:37):
She just cann't give a fuck. She didn't want to,
but you didn't want to know. You didn't want to know.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
That's right, just like shut up, just leave her Herb,
go wash your truck.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Over the next two weeks, the police combed the property,
finding burnt and crushed bone fragments too numerous to count.
Herb Baumeister never appeared. By the time the police were
beginning the search at Fox Hollow Farms, Herb was aware
that he was likely going to be arrested. He began
making his way to Canada. Eight days after the search began.
(33:10):
On July third, nineteen ninety six, Herbert Baumeister drove into
Heinery Provincial Park in Ontario, north of Lake Huron, parked
his car just off the road, and shot himself. He
left behind a lengthy suicide note lamenting his failed businesses
in marriage. There was no mention of any murders due
(33:32):
to the fact that many of the remains were thoroughly
charred when they were disposed of. It wasn't until nineteen
ninety nine then investigators identified eight of the victims on
Fox Hollow Farm through DONA records in DNA, tex Johnny
Lee Bayer was twenty years old. He went missing in
May nineteen ninety three. Richard Douglas Hamilton Junior was reported
(33:53):
missing in July nineteen ninety three, and he was also
twenty years old. Manuel Martinez Resindez was thirty one years
old when he disappeared on August sixth, nineteen ninety three.
Thirty one year old Jeff Allen Jones was reported missing
in August nineteen ninety three. Stephen Hale, twenty six years old,
(34:14):
was last seen on April first, nineteen ninety four. Twenty
eight year old Alan Wayne Broussard was last seen at
an Indianapolis gay bar on June sixth, nineteen ninety four.
Michael Frederick Kern was forty six years old when he
went missing on March thirty first, nineteen ninety five. And
Roger Allen Goodlett, who was thirty three years old. He
(34:38):
had been with his mother assembling a bench on July
twenty second, nineteen ninety four, before he went home to
play with his kitten for a little while, and then
he left to go out to the bar. Through efforts
of his family members, Allen Lee Livingston, who had been
missing since August nineteen ninety three, he would be identified
utilizing DNA provided by his family. Daniel till Thomas Hallerin
(35:01):
was tenth and most recent set of remains identified in
April twenty twenty five. While the murders at Fox Hollow
Farmer estimated to number around twenty five men, It's believed
that he had started killing long before the estate was purchased,
which is crazy. In nineteen ninety eight, Herb Baummeister was
connected to the murders of the I seventy Strangler. In
(35:23):
the I seventy Strangler, between June nineteen eighty and October
nineteen ninety one, a dozen naked young men's bodies began
to show up along a stretch of Interstate seventy between
Indiana and Ohio. The killer was believed to have met
as victims in gay bars throughout Indianapolis, strangled them, and
dumped their bodies in rivers, streams, and ditches in the
(35:46):
area surrounding the highway. The bodies stopped showing up around
the time the Baummeister family moved to Fox Hollow Farms.
Wow Michael Riley left the Vogue Theater in the summer
of nineteen eighty three. He was last seen leaving the
club with an man matching description of Herb Boumceister, but
at the time there were no pictures, no reference point,
(36:06):
and Herb hadn't come onto the radar of law enforcement,
Michael's body would be found in the Hancock County stream.
This was the first of the dozen bodies found along
the I seventy corridor. The twelve official recorded victims of
the I seventy Strangler ranged in age from fourteen to
forty two. After discovering Herb's name, when Mark Goodyear came forward,
(36:31):
authorities showed the picture of Herb Baumceeister to the witness
who'd watch Michael Riley get into the vehicle the night
of his disappearance, and Michael Riley was the one that
they said was killed by the I seventy strangler. Right,
the witness identified Herb Boummeister as the man who had
last been seen with Michael Riley before his death. Recent
efforts to continue identifying the victims a Fox Hellow Farmer underway.
(36:55):
Hulu released a series called The Fox Hollow Murders, Playground
of a serial Killer. Earlier this year, is Hamilton County
Corner launches a new investigation to identify the victims from
the thousands of bone fragments found in the woods behind
the farm. This is not the last we will hear
of herb Baummeisters and the.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Fox Hill farm finding. That's terrible. I honestly, it's fucking monstrous.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
I know, cooking buried them on your property.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
What the hell? And then thousand bone fragments, I know.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
And to think too, he could be the I seventy
strangler is just and that he's.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Like nineteen eighty to ninety one. You said, yeah, the
I seventies strangler. I don't understand the forensics of scenes.
How could you go eleven years murdering people and nobody
was put on a task force. Something wasn't created to
help people?
Speaker 2 (37:53):
No, but it wasn't. I don't understand it.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
So of course whatever I don't understand makes me angry immediately.
And that's just honestly, I'm speechless. How many how many
bones are in a body? Like two fifty?
Speaker 1 (38:09):
I think three hundred to eighty, I don't.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Know, ten thousand divided by three hundred, Yeah, it's a
lot more.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
That's a lot of people, and that's just on its farm.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
That's yeah. How you can go unnoticed? I know, flabergacid.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
I just it is flabbergasting, And like you said, the
ice of New Strangler, I feel like in the last century,
you know, I mean forensics has grown so much, probably
and like really exploded twenty five thirty years, right. I
feel like before that if anybody got caught, it was
(38:43):
like a wing and a prayer.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Oh really was right? You are right?
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yes, take away from any type of investigations that people did,
you know, the police and stuff. I think nowadays it's
so much harder to get away. I mean people still
get away with stuff, don't get it wrong, but I
just like it's a lot harder because DNA. You know,
we're more familiar with DNA. There's fucking cameras everywhere.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
I was just.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Talking to a deputy for our county Sheriff's department today.
There are things out on the street that if you,
let's say your kid goes missing and your kid is
your kid drives, they can punch into all the police
and this is across the country. Please can pipe in
your license plate number and they can find. These things
(39:29):
are out on the streets so that when you pass it,
they'll know, oh, Anya's car was on grash it at
seven forty two pm on Wednesday, July fifteenth, and they
can pinpoint it. And I had no idea these things
were out there.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
I did either.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
I know, like, you can't get away with shit nowadays
it seems like, I don't know, you have to kill
like a stranger.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
That's so I forge right, the nefariousness of it, you know,
it's it's too much short.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
I love the technology. Yeah, I'm a motherfucker.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Get that fucker who sucker punches some old lady on
a New York street.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
You know, I'm all for it.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Or yeah, this car was seen passing this however they
have it, love it, but you know, the only part
of that makes me hate it is the potential to
abuse it. The good is just so much there, Like motherfucker.
But anyway, back to Herb and his things. Done that
he while he was here on earth. So he blew
(40:32):
himself away in a park to you know, it's just.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Like, yeah, way to go, Herb. Yeah exactly. Now the
trench took itself out. Yeah really, It's just you know,
there's so many unanswered. He is also the key to
families who are wanting closure and unable to get it
because taxi germy man, this is the world.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Oh wow, now we have a super save a lot.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
The franchise was built on a serial killer and his wife.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
It's called Miracle America.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
America was at everything, Tanya.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah, that was everything.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
So it's hard when it closes on a suicide.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
You know, no answers, no answers, I know, and you
know it's yeah, it's.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
And these men that he they have families that love
them very much.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Right, God, the guy was playing with his kitten before
you leave for the night to have fun. That's sweet,
I know, you know, and he took that sweetness from
someone's life.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
But that's why we're here to report make better choice
so people can make better choices.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Well, thank you Shannon for listening to this week's story,
and thank you everyone for listening as well. Before you go,
please hit the subscriber or follow button. Please visit our
website Crimesoconsequences dot com. Shannon developed a new shirt, a
new logo, and a.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
New little Yeah. It's called Splatter new Splatter one and
Splatter two.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Yeah, new design, So check it out if you they
are fine for sure. Yeah, they're very cool looking. And
if you want to hear more, you could check out
our Patreon. It's at patreon dot com. Slash t and
T crimes and what you get With your Patreon membership
is you get an extra episode.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Mostly every week.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
We try to do every week, but right now there's
like two hundred and fifty plus. Yes, dam I mean,
if you sign up now, you got hours, days, months.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Yes, yes they do, so check that out.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
You can also sign up through the Apple Podcast app.
So until our next episode, my.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Friend, until next time, my dear, I love you, I
love you.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
I will see you soon. Okay bye, I s.
This episode MA contained content of a graphic nature, including
descriptions of physical and sexual violence against adults, children, and animals.
Listener discretion is advised. Hi, this is Tanya. Hi, this
(00:37):
is Shannon, and we are Crimes and Consequences, a hardcore
true crime podcast. Hey Shannon, Hey Tanya, how are you doing.
I'm doing great, fabulous, couldn't be better.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yeah, I have a funny things.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
So, okay, I got these indoor security cameras right for Levi.
The one's over his crib. I got one in the
living room. I got a pack of four for a
decent price. I love it. I love being able to
pop over his crib and see how he's if he's
fussing stuff like that. Right.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
The one in the living room.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Is just straight on to like the couch, right, so
it's right under the TV that's mounted on the wall.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
And you know, when I go through it, it's just
usually me holding Levi.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
It's just who's ever holding Levi on the couch in
this certain spot is being recorded? Well, I forget and
I have given my daughter access to the course. The
camera's in the house, so she had left over to
her boyfriend's I got the boy down for the evening.
You know, Levi's down, He's good. I'm watching TV, you know,
(01:45):
and my usual Grandma's by herself. I'm a little high,
you know. I have my little ad d stems where
like I'll just hold my arm over my head and
let it hang in the air while I'm reading my
you know, I'm scrolling and I remember that the camera's on.
Like usually I turn it away for the evening, it's
(02:08):
just for whatever. I realized the freaking camera's been on,
and it made me think of that King of Queen's
episode where they had a camera on Arthur downstairs but
he didn't know it. I'm like, oh my gosh, our
Brook and Tony watching me scroll through my phone. I mean,
why wouldn't it's in our nature to watch, you know.
(02:33):
So I was like, oh, jeezu Lou, I cannot. I
don't want to jump up and turn the camera in
case they are watching, you know, I would just make
it weird, so stupid. So I'm rethinking the living room camera.
You know, I have four so one grown child and
(02:55):
one grandchild. I don't know how many cameras I need.
So that's my story. I had Arthur Spooner fearful bone.
Not a fear filled moment, just awkward.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
So what about girl?
Speaker 1 (03:09):
You know, I went to Chicago this past weekend with
my daughter. Her favorite K pop band was performing, and
it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
It was very sounded like fun. You're such a great mom.
I love that you just hop in the car.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, I'm like, road trip, that's right, road trip concert Chicago.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
We were driving home and we were started talking about
my mom and I'm like, you know, Nana loved a
road trip like my mom loved going on road trips.
I'm like, I love a road trip too. So going
to Chicago Friday, we drove there. Saturday, we came home
and I worked in the car on our drive there,
(03:48):
and I used my phone as a hot spot.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Isn't I love?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
I know it's one of the highlights of the time
we're living in now. Oh too much technology?
Speaker 2 (03:57):
I know. It was great.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
All I want in the time that I live in
as a woman is deodorant, tampons, and a good Wi Fi.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
A good Wi Fi. Oh yeah, well that's cool.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah. So I have a crazy story for you today.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Tell me.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
And it's a pretty famous one, like it's well known,
but I don't know if you've heard this story or not.
So it is about Herb Baumeister. Have you heard this one?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
It is not bringing about Baumeister. Does not roll off
the tongue, No, it doesn't Herb.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah, well, I'm going to tell you about this weirdo.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Okay please.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
The Midwest of the US is known as the Heartland, right,
and we live in the Midwest.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
And in the Midwest it's a major agricultural and industrial center.
Embracing this status, the region is also known to associate
itself with traditional American values, and Indiana lies within the
Heartland and boasts a diverse landscape, including forests and farmlands,
but also including several automotive manufacturing plants, much like Michigan.
(05:11):
During the eighties and nineties, there was a large population
boom around the capital, which is Indianapolis, which is where
our story takes place. Due to the efforts of the
mayor and his desire to increase sports tourism, the city
acquired the Baltimore Colts, a football team at the time,
and they hosted the nineteen eighty seven Pan American Games.
(05:32):
While the city's population boomed, a new demographic of people
were moving in. People frequenting the downtown areas had traditionally
been businessmen, and when those men would go home to
their wives, the city practically closed itself at five o'clock.
But then the nightclubs began popping up all around the city,
and they were gay nightclubs in particular. These gay bars
(05:56):
were a sanctuary for the community that they served. Outside
of the walls of those nightclubs, there wasn't much support
for the gay community, and many of the people of
Indianapolis felt pressure to accept the gay community, which contradicted
their conservative American values that you know, the heartland this
(06:18):
you know reputation.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah, you don't absolutely engage in gay sex openly.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
That's for behind closed doors. And this is like the
aid for others.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Right, and this is the eighties and nineties, and you know,
people were still quite uptight, very well. With the entrance
of the gay community to the city and headlines about
the AIDS crisis, you know, they became more meaningful as
homosexual men began to report missing from the club scene.
The police tended to dismiss the claims, often using the
(06:48):
AIDS epidemic as an excuse, saying, oh, they must have
gotten sick and they just don't go to the bars anymore.
But this was becoming an issue. They were being reported
missing and they were not really investigated well when the
victims were gay. It became a population that the police
really didn't put a lot of resources toward.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Yeah, that's sad, like how they deal with like prostitutes
and name Americans, you know, the right, they're deemed not
good enough to write invest in resources.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Right, Yeah, it's not like a blond white girl that
went missing, sure, exactly. So members of the gay community
were instead being targeted by law enforcement. They got tickets
for loitering or a male prostitution when stepping outside of
the bar. Like, they were just targeted and they didn't
feel safe. But the community was close knit, even if
the police were providing the missing and murdered men with
(07:43):
lazy investigations. The nightclubs provided a place for family and
friends to hang posters seeking information about their loved ones
who had disappeared, and bodies began littering the Highway I seventy.
As the number of missing and murdered gay men increased
emerged in fears of serial killer developed. So this is
(08:04):
the backdrop in front of which a report was made
to the Indianapolis authorities from a gay man named Mark
Goodyear one summer in the mid nineties. The night before,
Mark had seen a man at the bar that he
didn't recognize, staring at the wanted poster for a missing
man named Roger good Leut. Approaching the stranger, he introduced
(08:25):
himself as Tony Harris, using an alias in an attempt
to disguise who he was in the LGBTQ climate of
the time, and asked the stranger if he knew Roger.
The man answered no, he didn't. Then he asked the
man's name, and he said Brian Smart. So after spending
time together at the bar, Brian asked his new companion
(08:46):
Tony if he would want to go to his employer's
home to swim in the indoor pool and said, you know,
we can take supparate cars. So Tony said sure, but
he said we don't have to take two separate cars.
We can take one. He wanted his car left at
the bar in case he went missing, like so many
others had. He wanted someone to know, you know, looking
(09:07):
for him. So Tony got into Brian's car and they
drove in relative silence. Not for the lack of trying
on Tony's part, but Brian really didn't seem interested in
the two getting to know each other. They pulled into
the driveway of the name of the place was something
farm Tony would recall to the police. They drove down
the long entrance of an eighteen acre property, ending at
(09:31):
the front door of a tutor style mansion. Brian told
his guests that the power was off on the ground level,
but was still on in the basement where the pool was,
which a basement pool seems kind.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Of creepy right.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Going through the garage and down a set of stairs,
they reached the swimming pool in the basement. Upon reaching
the pool, Tony saw pool toys, a fully stocked bar,
and the weirdest of all. You're never going to guess
what I'm gonna say next, a bunch of posed mannequins.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
I was close because I was gonna say, blow up.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Now you were close. Oh, One was just as a
woman modeled to reach into a cabinet. One was sitting
beside the pool dressed as a lifeguard, and others set
up just as other people by the water, enjoying like
a pool day. So Tony went into the changing room
to put on a swimsuit, and he came out shortly
(10:27):
to join Brian at the pool. After swimming around for
a bit, Brian started talking about his erratic fetishes, including
using autoerotic asphyxiation and strangulation. Then he asked Tony if
he'd like to see a quote unquote neat trick. Brian
described how squeezing somebody's neck and cutting off circulation to
(10:48):
the brain during sex can cause an extremely intense orgasm,
and asked if Tony would like to try it. Tony agreed,
and Brian took the pool hose that had been floating
in the water near the men and began wrapping it
around Tony's neck, tightening it slowly until he was strangling
his date. As the hoes got tighter, Tony realized that
(11:08):
Brian wasn't letting up, and realizing he might die, he
decided to pretend to pass out, going limp in the water.
Brian slowly let up, and after a few seconds, the
would be victim startled his attempted murderer by opening his eyes.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
We should have had a safe word.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
YEA in that moment, yeah, in that moment, it clicked
Tony accused Brian of being the man causing the disappearances.
He told Brian he was going to go to the police,
and Brian retorted, no one is going to believe a
person like you. So Tony realized he was correct about
the sacondation instead of being like, what the fuck are
(11:50):
you talking about? Right, the police hadn't shown interest in
the disappearances so far. He also knew he wasn't going
to help anyone else unless he got out of there alive,
so he decided to play along. The men drank their
fill from the full bar by the pool and partied
until Brian passed out. The following morning, Brian took Tony
(12:10):
back to his car outside the nightclub, saying goodbye. Brian
told Tony he'd love to see him again, and on
his way home, Mark Goodyear stopped by the Indianapolis Police Department,
which this seems really odd to me that he just
like let the guy go. Sitting down with a couple
of officers, he told him about the man. Brian smart
he lived in a mansion in Hamilton County and was
(12:33):
picking up gay men at the bars and strangling them. However,
Mark couldn't give an exact description of the home and property.
The clearest description he could come up with for the
estate was the sign at the entrance had the name
something Farm.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
This would be extremely useful.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Except the street the estate had been built on was
a road lined with farms. The police told him to
keep an eye out for the man again when he
went to the bar, and maybe try to get a
license plate number next time. The opportunity finally arose in
the spring of nineteen ninety five when Tony found Brian
Smart once again. That evening, Tony asked friend of his
(13:11):
to go outside and write it down, afraid of drawing
Brian's eye to him if he were to go and
get it himself. When it was handed over to the
Indianapolis Missing Persons, the detective assigned to the case ran
it through the DMV database. The man they were looking
for was named Herbert R. Baumeister of Fox Hollow Farm.
The authorities immediately drove over to the Save a Latte
(13:33):
thrift store, which was owned by Herb Baumeister and his
wife to question him. Oh Yes, a new twist. When
the detective arrived, she approached the counter and asked to
speak to the owner, Herb appeared shaking detective's hand, and
then she bluntly asked if he had ever visited any
of the gay nightclubs downtown, which, of course, he adamantly denied.
(13:58):
She told Herb that multiple witnesses had placed him at
the clubs several times, and she had gotten his license
plate number from one of those eyewitnesses. Knowing he couldn't
reasonably deny it anymore, he admitted that he did visit
the bars occasionally and his family didn't know about it.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Obviously, sure yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Accepting this as a likely truth of several, if not many,
of the men participating in the Indianapolis gay nightclub scene,
she shifted her approach to the detective, explaining she was
investigating the disappearance of some missing men from the bars
he visited. She indicated she felt he might know something
or be involved in some way. Then she asked if
(14:39):
the police search his property. HERB denied involvement in the
disappearances and murders. He said that any further question should
be said to his lawyer, a well known criminal defense
attorney in Indianapolis. When he went home, he told his
wife that a disgruntled former employee was making false claims
against him to the police, and they needed to be
(14:59):
very careful. And this didn't alarm her. They had been
business owners for many years and she knew an unhappy
employee would come along causing trouble sooner or later. When
the detective went back to the police station, she called
the attorney's office, who replied saying he didn't know or
represent Herbert Baummeister. The detective who went back to the
(15:20):
store and confronted Herb about the attorney's response, but then
Herb doubled down, insisting that he was being represented by
this attorney. She completed the check again and was again
shut down by the attorney saying Nope, we don't represent him.
So frustrated, annoyed, and ready to be the bad cop,
she went back to the Save a Lot, only to
(15:41):
be told that Herb had just gotten a retainer to
the law office, which called the lawyers for the third time.
She was told no, you cannot search mister Baumeister's property.
The detective was certain her suspect was involved in at
least some of the disappearances.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah resolved, she went to a.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Forensic anthropologist who suggested lying over Fox Hollow Farm in
a helicopter fitted with an infrared camera to see heat
from bodies possibly decomposing on the property. I know, I
didn't know that was a thing me. Either No evidence
was found, either there were no decomposed bodies, or it
had been too long since a body had been placed
(16:19):
there and it was no longer emitting heat, so she
was going to have to find another way. In November
nineteen ninety five, thirteen year old Eric Baumeister was playing
in a wooded area of Fox Hollows, underdeveloped eighteen acres,
just outside what would be considered the backyard. While playing,
he came across a pile of partially buried bones. Curious
(16:41):
about what he found, he grabbed the skull and took
it to his mother, Julie. Unsettled, she asked Eric to
take her to the area of the yard where he'd
been playing, where she saw the same pile of remains.
I know, this is fucking freaky things. Yeah. Later that
day she would bring up the discovery to her husband, Herb,
who would dismiss her concerns, telling her that those were
(17:02):
bones of an old medical school skeleton owned by his father,
doctor Herbert Ebaumeister. Julie's father in law, and her father
in law had been an anesthesiologist, so it wasn't a stretch.
Herb told his wife the skeleton had been made of
human bones, possibly as old as the eighteen hundreds, so
he'd felt it only proper to bury them rather than
(17:24):
throw them in the trash.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
I know, makes a hole a little deeper so your
son doesn't stumble across the.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Skull, right.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Julie had been married to her for twenty three years,
so she was aware he was a little odd, and
so she was able to put the incident, this incident
like to the side out of.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Her chalk it up as yep, something herbs working on. Right.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Just a few days later, she went out in the
yard and she noticed that the bones her son had
found were gone and probably taken by an animal, is
what she thought. Unknown to Julie at the time, he
was surrounded by dozens of other piles of fragments just
like the one Eric had found. Two years later, in
nineteen ninety six, the police would bring excavators, cadaver dogs,
(18:11):
and officers to do a thorough sweep, eventually finding more
than ten thousand bones and belonging to an estimated twenty
five victims, of which only ten victims have been identified
as of today. Oh my goodness, I'll tell you a
little bit about our little buddy.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Herb, Herb, Herb, Herb.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Herb Richard Baumeister was born in Indianapolis on April seventh,
nineteen forty seven, making him a series series aes. He
was born to doctor Herbert Eugene and Elizabeth Schmidt Baumeister,
the oldest of four. His childhood was normal. However, beginning
(18:53):
in adolescence, Herb began having issues fitting in and showed
signs of anti social behavior. During his time at North
Central High School. He would show curiosity in dead animals
and quote, ponder what it would be like to taste
human urine? End quote. Not your usual teenage activities.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Little ditty party, didty party?
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Oh it sounds like someone's on their way to a
ditty party.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Into a freak off.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
At one point, he both urinated and left a dead
bird on the desk of one of his teachers. After
that incident and a series of outbursts during class time,
the school reached out to his parents for intervention. Tests
were done, and the young man was ultimately diagnosed with
paranoid schizophrenia and antisocial personality disorder. There are no records
(19:46):
indicating he received treatment for either condition. He seemed to
lead a normal life for a little while, although he
was unable or uninterested in making friends due to his
morbid interests. He enrolled in college at Indiana University in
nineteen sixty five. Ultimately, though he dropped out his first semester,
he would try again, enrolling in nineteen sixty seven, although
(20:09):
he would never graduate. It was during his second attempt
at higher education that he met Juliana Satyr, his future wife.
The couple married in nineteen seventy one. Interestingly, that same year,
before they would marry, herb would be involuntarily committed by
his father for undisclosed reasons. The couple would go on
(20:33):
to have three children. However, Julie would eventually say that
during their over twenty five years of marriage, she would
only be intimate with her husband six times and she
never saw him naked.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Oh boy, six times in twenty five years? What is that?
That is outstanding?
Speaker 1 (20:52):
And they got pregnant three times, that's it's fertile.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
It's a wild, yes, wild statistic.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
You just don't know people's married situations. You know what
kind of contract they've made with each other.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Sure, on the outside were this, But on the inside
he has his tax at jeremy studio that he might
masturbate in.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
And this is my home life.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Hey got his mannequins by the pool.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Oh my gosh, I did forget about the mannquins.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Don't forget about the mannikins.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Ye.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Six months after being married, Herb was again committed by
his father, this time for two months. Julie excused the incident,
explaining that Herb's struggles with depression had reached a point
where he was simply hurting and needed help. But Herb
was an amazing father. He doted on their children, showering
them with attention. He took part in all aspects of childcare,
(21:54):
sharing the parental load with Julie. He would participate in
everything from choosing the children's squ ruols to making meals
and shopping for clothes in gifts. During his marriage, Herb
worked a series of odd jobs until he was eventually
hired at the Indiana State Bureau of Motor Vehicles. With
the steady income in Julie's work teaching high school English,
(22:17):
his family was able to afford a middle class home
in the Indiana suburbs. Neighbors described the couple as a
bit odd, but remembered Herb in particular to have been
highly energetic and excitable. His eccentricities were on full display
for his neighbors as he regularly would hand out coverless magazines.
(22:38):
Herb would participate in a scam, taking advantage of a
business policy of stripped cover returns, where sellers were eligible
for money back on unsold magazines and comic books if
they provided the covers of the publications as proof to
the distributor that they had been destroyed instead of sold.
Herb would dumpster dive for the man magazines at his
(23:00):
local croker, which had a habit of throwing them away
without stripping the covers. Taking advantage, Herb would grab the
magazines with the covers, bring them back home, remove the covers,
and then hand them out to people he would see
in a subdivision.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Oh my gosh, mom, you want to copy a red book?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Doesn't have the.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Cover, but yeah, the June issue. It doesn't have the cover,
but it's all there.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
But herb our neighbor was passing them out. You might
like it.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Occasionally, a neighbor would decline his offer of free coverless magazines,
which would annoy him to no end and had led
to him lashing out in front of several neighbors and guests.
Another incident took place where Herb took on the responsibility
of hiring contractors to build the landscaped signs at the
(23:48):
entrance to their subdivision. After the new sign was built,
Herb took it upon himself to place extravagant flower pots
on top of the sign, which the HOA asked him
to remove. Herb raged about how much work he'd put
into the project and he deserved to put whatever flowers
wherever he wanted, which was not what was agreed upon
when he took the job. Great eccentric Yes in nineteen
(24:14):
eighty five. Herb had been at the Bureau of Motor
Vehicles for a number of years, having worked his way
up to a supervisor position. Employees there had described him
as being quote a perfectionist given to sudden, unprovoked rages unquote. Eventually,
he was fired after he was caught urinating on a
letter addressed to the governor.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
That'll do it every time, Herb, come on, what the
fuck now?
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Out of work, Herb began going to gay bars in
Indianapolis to drink. During this time, he was arrested for
a hit and run accident while drunk and conspiracy to
commit theft, and both charges were dropped. Eventually, Herb was
able to find work at thrift store. This environment suited him,
and in nineteen eighty eight, he borrowed money from his
(25:05):
mom to open the first of three thrift stores, called
Save a Lot. The stores would turn enough of a
profit to give thousands annually to a charity benefiting neglected children.
The success of the business still let for his pride,
and the couple decided to open another location. It was
during the opening of the second store that strain and
the family began to show. This location wasn't as successful
(25:26):
as the first, and the hours that were required between
the two locations were long. This, coupled with the pressure
of parenting and some financial issues, led to Herb moving
out in February nineteen ninety one and filing for divorce.
This didn't last long. By November, Herb and Julie had
chosen to try to work things out, and at this
time the couple put down money on the four bedroom,
(25:48):
eighteen acre estate called.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Fox Hollow Farm.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
In January nineteen ninety two, the purchase of the Tudor
style mansion with an indoor pool was complete. The asking
price for the home was nine hundred and seventy nine
thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Oh my gosh in nineteen ninety two that I was
just saying nine, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
With two thrift stores in one location struggling, this purchase
did little to help the couple's finances. Herb's mental and
emotional volatility was showing as he became more and more
unpredictable around his employees, leading to a revolving door of workers.
This caused the environment in the story to become more
disorganized and dirtier. Cash flow was a erratic and their
(26:31):
home life began to fall apart. Julia and the children
began spending extra time at her mother in law's condo
on Lake Wawasee. She would leave Herb to look after
the stores, and without his wife there, he would also
be frequenting the gay bars. By the time the skull
was found on the property in November nineteen ninety four,
the craks in the marriage had become cavernous. In the
(26:54):
fall of nineteen ninety five. It had been about a
year since the skull had been found on Julie Moummeister's property. Police,
having been unsuccessful in obtaining permission from HERB to search
Fox Hollow Farm, decided to approach his wife. Julie was
on indeed, and could also authorize a search of the property.
Approaching missus Baummeister at the second save a lot location
(27:17):
on the north side of Indianapolis, the detective explained that
there had been several men connected to the gay community
who disappeared throughout Indianapolis. They informed her that her husband's
car had been spotted at a gay bar and suggested
HERB might be involved. Julie was angry and shaken when
she told them HERB was not violent and had never
ever accidentally given her an injury or bruise. After twenty
(27:39):
five years together, there was no way he was involved.
She did not consent to a search that day, and
when HERB got home, she told her husband about the
detectives coming to their home. He dismissed the claims of
the police, telling her that this was all to do
with the former employee who was out to get him.
As time progressed, Herb began day drinking while he worked
(27:59):
at the store, and Julie filed for divorce in January
nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
The calls didn't do it, his odd behavior, didn't write.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
But that day drinking, I'm I'm out.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
I'm out.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Six times of sex in twenty five years, but the
day drinking.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
That was the final straw.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
What you were saying about, like how the police how
She was like, Look, I've been married him for twenty
he's never even hurt me.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, he's not into the gene.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Then, yeah, that's why jeels okay, because you have parts
he don't like.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
That's all. That's why he's never hurt you. He doesn't
know what to do with you.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yes, exactly. She took the kids to stay close by
at a house in Carmel, Indiana.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Herb had taken.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
To disappearing for periods of time, and Julie had never
inquired where he'd been. The police had hoped that time
would have been what Julie needed to convince her to
let them search, and they came back in April, but
Julie still refused to let them in. However, during the
last week of June, the situation completely changed. Both of
the stores closed within that month, and Julie had filed
(29:12):
for divorce. On June twenty third, she revealed to her
attorney that Eric had found bones on the property. She
also disclosed that they had only had sex six times
during their twenty five year marriage. During the divorce now,
the first hearing had been scheduled and it was about
custody of the kids, and herb missed it, so Julie
(29:33):
was awarded emergency custody of the kids and a protective
order against her husband when she didn't hear from him.
After court, Julie finally allowed the police on to the
property on June twenty fifth, nineteen ninety six. Within seconds
on the property, the authorities were unearthing remains, pieces of clothing,
shotgun shells, and restraints. The wooded area Eric had found
(29:56):
the scullen was a relative cemetery, with el eleven complete
sets of skeletons being pulled from the edge of the woods.
Jullie was taken in for an interview with law enforcement
on June twenty sixth, nineteen ninety six, during which she
admitted that her husband was strange.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yeah, no shit, sherlock.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
The mannequins that Mark had said were posed within the
poolhouse during his police interview, Julie said had been posed
on their patio many times as well. HERB told her
that it made it feel like there was a party
going on, but that was just the light side of
her husband.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
In HERB. Yeah, it was whimsical, that's.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
A great word, but he also had a dark side,
she admitted.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Ultimately, our family has always been based on my world
being pretty much controlled by HERB. Julie told detectives he
was and still is a very mean man who can
do very mean things to people. End quote. She admitted
to feeling the need to walk on eggshells around her
husband as their marriage progressed and his bouts of rage
(31:10):
became more and more frequent and less predictable. She'd wanted
to allow the police to search the property, but feared
her would retaliate, and she didn't want to be subject
to his temper. Julie was also aware that her husband
had developed a habit of disappearing for hours at first
near the beginning of their marriage, coming home with mud
in the wheel wells of his tires or unexplained injuries.
(31:32):
As their marriage progressed. His disappearances began to be lengthier.
He would go missing for days or weeks at a time.
Julie never asked where he went or what he was doing. Girl,
I would be so far up his.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Liay Tanya, I was just fucking thinking that.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
I thought you are gone for more than if you're
say you're going to be back a fucking five. I
expect I'm relying on your words. You'd tell me to
bet five two three or six days, two weeks. You
should be afraid to come home to me. I'm gonna
tell you that right now.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
I know.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Fuck you're crazy. You ain't seem crazy.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
I won't be ignored, Dan, Yeah right, you know I
love gun clothes.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
I won't be ignored.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Oh that is that's crazy behavior. Yes, you can't be
up to good stuff if your if your wife's missing you,
if your spouse is missing you and you don't tell
her a shit, you can't be.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Up to good things. You're not helping the poor.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
How is she not asking?
Speaker 2 (32:37):
She just cann't give a fuck. She didn't want to,
but you didn't want to know. You didn't want to know.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
That's right, just like shut up, just leave her Herb,
go wash your truck.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Over the next two weeks, the police combed the property,
finding burnt and crushed bone fragments too numerous to count.
Herb Baumeister never appeared. By the time the police were
beginning the search at Fox Hollow Farms, Herb was aware
that he was likely going to be arrested. He began
making his way to Canada. Eight days after the search began.
(33:10):
On July third, nineteen ninety six, Herbert Baumeister drove into
Heinery Provincial Park in Ontario, north of Lake Huron, parked
his car just off the road, and shot himself. He
left behind a lengthy suicide note lamenting his failed businesses
in marriage. There was no mention of any murders due
(33:32):
to the fact that many of the remains were thoroughly
charred when they were disposed of. It wasn't until nineteen
ninety nine then investigators identified eight of the victims on
Fox Hollow Farm through DONA records in DNA, tex Johnny
Lee Bayer was twenty years old. He went missing in
May nineteen ninety three. Richard Douglas Hamilton Junior was reported
(33:53):
missing in July nineteen ninety three, and he was also
twenty years old. Manuel Martinez Resindez was thirty one years
old when he disappeared on August sixth, nineteen ninety three.
Thirty one year old Jeff Allen Jones was reported missing
in August nineteen ninety three. Stephen Hale, twenty six years old,
(34:14):
was last seen on April first, nineteen ninety four. Twenty
eight year old Alan Wayne Broussard was last seen at
an Indianapolis gay bar on June sixth, nineteen ninety four.
Michael Frederick Kern was forty six years old when he
went missing on March thirty first, nineteen ninety five. And
Roger Allen Goodlett, who was thirty three years old. He
(34:38):
had been with his mother assembling a bench on July
twenty second, nineteen ninety four, before he went home to
play with his kitten for a little while, and then
he left to go out to the bar. Through efforts
of his family members, Allen Lee Livingston, who had been
missing since August nineteen ninety three, he would be identified
utilizing DNA provided by his family. Daniel till Thomas Hallerin
(35:01):
was tenth and most recent set of remains identified in
April twenty twenty five. While the murders at Fox Hollow
Farmer estimated to number around twenty five men, It's believed
that he had started killing long before the estate was purchased,
which is crazy. In nineteen ninety eight, Herb Baummeister was
connected to the murders of the I seventy Strangler. In
(35:23):
the I seventy Strangler, between June nineteen eighty and October
nineteen ninety one, a dozen naked young men's bodies began
to show up along a stretch of Interstate seventy between
Indiana and Ohio. The killer was believed to have met
as victims in gay bars throughout Indianapolis, strangled them, and
dumped their bodies in rivers, streams, and ditches in the
(35:46):
area surrounding the highway. The bodies stopped showing up around
the time the Baummeister family moved to Fox Hollow Farms.
Wow Michael Riley left the Vogue Theater in the summer
of nineteen eighty three. He was last seen leaving the
club with an man matching description of Herb Boumceister, but
at the time there were no pictures, no reference point,
(36:06):
and Herb hadn't come onto the radar of law enforcement,
Michael's body would be found in the Hancock County stream.
This was the first of the dozen bodies found along
the I seventy corridor. The twelve official recorded victims of
the I seventy Strangler ranged in age from fourteen to
forty two. After discovering Herb's name, when Mark Goodyear came forward,
(36:31):
authorities showed the picture of Herb Baumceeister to the witness
who'd watch Michael Riley get into the vehicle the night
of his disappearance, and Michael Riley was the one that
they said was killed by the I seventy strangler. Right,
the witness identified Herb Boummeister as the man who had
last been seen with Michael Riley before his death. Recent
efforts to continue identifying the victims a Fox Hellow Farmer underway.
(36:55):
Hulu released a series called The Fox Hollow Murders, Playground
of a serial Killer. Earlier this year, is Hamilton County
Corner launches a new investigation to identify the victims from
the thousands of bone fragments found in the woods behind
the farm. This is not the last we will hear
of herb Baummeisters and the.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Fox Hill farm finding. That's terrible. I honestly, it's fucking monstrous.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
I know, cooking buried them on your property.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
What the hell? And then thousand bone fragments, I know.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
And to think too, he could be the I seventy
strangler is just and that he's.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Like nineteen eighty to ninety one. You said, yeah, the
I seventies strangler. I don't understand the forensics of scenes.
How could you go eleven years murdering people and nobody
was put on a task force. Something wasn't created to
help people?
Speaker 2 (37:53):
No, but it wasn't. I don't understand it.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
So of course whatever I don't understand makes me angry immediately.
And that's just honestly, I'm speechless. How many how many
bones are in a body? Like two fifty?
Speaker 1 (38:09):
I think three hundred to eighty, I don't.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Know, ten thousand divided by three hundred, Yeah, it's a
lot more.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
That's a lot of people, and that's just on its farm.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
That's yeah. How you can go unnoticed? I know, flabergacid.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
I just it is flabbergasting, And like you said, the
ice of New Strangler, I feel like in the last century,
you know, I mean forensics has grown so much, probably
and like really exploded twenty five thirty years, right. I
feel like before that if anybody got caught, it was
(38:43):
like a wing and a prayer.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Oh really was right? You are right?
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yes, take away from any type of investigations that people did,
you know, the police and stuff. I think nowadays it's
so much harder to get away. I mean people still
get away with stuff, don't get it wrong, but I
just like it's a lot harder because DNA. You know,
we're more familiar with DNA. There's fucking cameras everywhere.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
I was just.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Talking to a deputy for our county Sheriff's department today.
There are things out on the street that if you,
let's say your kid goes missing and your kid is
your kid drives, they can punch into all the police
and this is across the country. Please can pipe in
your license plate number and they can find. These things
(39:29):
are out on the streets so that when you pass it,
they'll know, oh, Anya's car was on grash it at
seven forty two pm on Wednesday, July fifteenth, and they
can pinpoint it. And I had no idea these things
were out there.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
I did either.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
I know, like, you can't get away with shit nowadays
it seems like, I don't know, you have to kill
like a stranger.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
That's so I forge right, the nefariousness of it, you know,
it's it's too much short.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
I love the technology. Yeah, I'm a motherfucker.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Get that fucker who sucker punches some old lady on
a New York street.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
You know, I'm all for it.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Or yeah, this car was seen passing this however they
have it, love it, but you know, the only part
of that makes me hate it is the potential to
abuse it. The good is just so much there, Like motherfucker.
But anyway, back to Herb and his things. Done that
he while he was here on earth. So he blew
(40:32):
himself away in a park to you know, it's just.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Like, yeah, way to go, Herb. Yeah exactly. Now the
trench took itself out. Yeah really, It's just you know,
there's so many unanswered. He is also the key to
families who are wanting closure and unable to get it
because taxi germy man, this is the world.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Oh wow, now we have a super save a lot.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
The franchise was built on a serial killer and his wife.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
It's called Miracle America.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
America was at everything, Tanya.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah, that was everything.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
So it's hard when it closes on a suicide.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
You know, no answers, no answers, I know, and you
know it's yeah, it's.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
And these men that he they have families that love
them very much.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Right, God, the guy was playing with his kitten before
you leave for the night to have fun. That's sweet,
I know, you know, and he took that sweetness from
someone's life.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
But that's why we're here to report make better choice
so people can make better choices.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Well, thank you Shannon for listening to this week's story,
and thank you everyone for listening as well. Before you go,
please hit the subscriber or follow button. Please visit our
website Crimesoconsequences dot com. Shannon developed a new shirt, a
new logo, and a.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
New little Yeah. It's called Splatter new Splatter one and
Splatter two.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Yeah, new design, So check it out if you they
are fine for sure. Yeah, they're very cool looking. And
if you want to hear more, you could check out
our Patreon. It's at patreon dot com. Slash t and
T crimes and what you get With your Patreon membership
is you get an extra episode.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Mostly every week.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
We try to do every week, but right now there's
like two hundred and fifty plus. Yes, dam I mean,
if you sign up now, you got hours, days, months.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Yes, yes they do, so check that out.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
You can also sign up through the Apple Podcast app.
So until our next episode, my.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Friend, until next time, my dear, I love you, I
love you.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
I will see you soon. Okay bye, I s.
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