Monster: The Ed Gein Story - Part 2 (Bonus Episode)

This week we conclude our Halloween bonus series on Ed Gein by talking about episodes five through eight of Monster: The Ed Gein Story. How did this season compare to the last two and what creative liberties were taken to bring Ed Gein’s story to our TV screens? Listen now to find out.

You can stream the full season of Monster: The Ed Gein Story on Netflix.

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Theme: DARKNESS (feat. EdKara) by Ghost148

Episode Transcript

Sheriff (00:09):
My head?

Ed Gein (00:11):
Yes.

Sheriff (00:12):
Did you kill Bernice Warden?
I don't remember.
Did you kill Mary Hope?
I don't remember.
Did you kill Ray Burgess andVictor Travis?
No.

New Broadcast (00:29):
Did you kill an eight-year-old girl?

Sheriff (00:31):
Georgia Jean Weckler?
No, I didn't.
Did you kill your brother, Ed?

Ed Gein (00:40):
He died in a fire.
Asphyxiation, Lisa.
Broke Mother's Heart.

Remi (00:52):
And welcome back, everyone, to part three of our
special bonus Edgean series thatwe're doing here.
That's not how we initiallyplanned things, but that's the
way the cookie crumbles.
Thank you all so much forjoining us here today.
If you haven't listened to theprevious episodes, we would

(01:15):
highly recommend that you dothat before listening to this
one.
And if you have listened tothose episodes, please leave a
like, a comment, tell a friend,spread the word.
It always helps.
Ashley, how are you doingtoday?

Ashley (01:29):
I'm doing great.
And man, I am relieved that weare finally coming to a close on
our coverage of Ed Geen.
This turned out to be a muchbigger endeavor and experience
than we were initially intendingor anticipating.

Remi (01:45):
Agreed.
I am Ed Geened out, but westill have four episodes to go
in this Ryan Murphy series.
We are not gonna catch everyoneup on the first four episodes.
We're gonna assume that youguys have already listened to
that previous podcast.
So should we just dive right into episode five of Monster the

(02:11):
Ed Gean Story?
Titled Ice.

Ashley (02:15):
We should.
You are going to hell! Well,I'll make sure to keep House for
your son when I'm there.
I'm gonna laugh at yourfuneral.
My tagline for this episode isWinter New York City may be
cold, but nothing is as chillyas Adeline.

Remi (02:33):
My tagline for this episode is the age of Adeline.

Ashley (02:39):
That's good.
That's the one you were sittingon for a little bit.

Remi (02:42):
The second Adeline showed up, I was waiting for the
episode focusing on her to usethis tagline, and yep, this is
the Adeline episode.
We don't really get abackstory, but we get a full
taste of the kind of personAdeline is.
And spoiler alert, she is aterrible person.

Ashley (03:04):
Also, with this episode, I want to point out that I have
zero similarities anddifferences.
This is all just thoughts andwhat the fuck moments.
This episode, we just go evenfurther into Crazy Bill than the
last one, which is kind of hardto believe.

Remi (03:21):
That's been a pattern with this series so far.
And this episode starts withAdeline banging some random dude
we've never seen before up inher bedroom at her parents'
house, and she's apparently beenseeing this other dude for
quite some time now behind Ed'sback.
Downstairs, Adeline tells hermom that she doesn't want to be

(03:45):
a homemaker or a housewife, soAdeline's mom bitch slaps the
shit out of Adeline.
And Adeline wants to move outand be on her own, but doesn't
have any money, so she has tostay home and do what her mom
says, which is prepare for lifeas a homemaker or a housewife.

(04:06):
Back at Ed's place, Ed skinswomen's corpses while Adeline
watches and takes pictures.
You know, couple's goals.
Ed also really wants to havesex with Adeline, which I keep
forgetting they haven't doneyet, but Adeline keeps making up
excuses.
Which brings us to the sewingcircle lady, Eleanor Adams.

(04:30):
Adeline is forced by her motherto attend a sewing circle
hosted by Eleanor, who is alocal woman whose gatherings
Adeline deeply detests.
And FYI, a sewing circle, is agroup of people, typically
women, who meet regularly to sewor craft together, often for

(04:52):
charitable causes such as makinggarments for those in need, or
supporting social movements likeanti-slavery or missionary
work.

Ashley (05:02):
Well, and this is also kind of portrayed as Eleanor
teaching younger women how to begood wives.
Because they don't only gossipor sew.
Eleanor teaches them how tomake a candle.

Remi (05:14):
Yeah, in the next scene, Eleanor is teaching all the
ladies how to make candles.
And she also coughs a fewtimes, which is always a sign of
impending death from sicknessin any movie or TV show.

Ashley (05:28):
And I don't know what Adeline has against candles, but
she is not having this.

Remi (05:33):
Yeah, Adeline begins making some suggestive
references to the candle,insinuating that they're dicks,
and gets kicked out by Eleanor.
On her way out, Adelinepromises to laugh at Eleanor's
funeral.

Ashley (05:51):
And in the next scene, she does just that.

Remi (05:54):
Yeah, it's a hard cut to Adeline wearing all red,
laughing her ass off atEleanor's funeral, to the point
where her mom even sayssomething to her.
I mean, Adeline is reallygetting a kick out of everything
here.

Ashley (06:10):
But Adeline doesn't stop there.
She has much darker intentionsfor how to get her quote-unquote
revenge on poor, poor Eleanor.

Remi (06:20):
Later that night, while driving with Ed, Adeline says
that she's going to move to NewYork City, and invites Ed to
come along with her.
But Ed is a simple man withsimple dreams, who just couldn't
imagine life living in the bigcity.
He's never even been outside ofWisconsin.

(06:40):
Ed does, however, stilldesperately want to bone
Adeline, leading to thefollowing scene.

Adeline (06:49):
That needs to be my choice to do something like that
with somebody, and you'retaking my choice away.

Ed Gein (06:56):
You're the one that was pushing me for it.
I just got nervous because ofmother and then like distracted,
thinking she was gonna hollerat me, but I'm not worried about
that anymore.
I'm sorry, Eddie.
I'm just not ready.
But what is Sam Heck am Isupposed to do?

Remi (07:18):
As a compromise, Adeline suggests that Ed start banging
corpses as a substitute for herwhile she's away in New York.

Ashley (07:26):
And she knows just the corpse he should start with.

Remi (07:30):
Adeline takes Ed to a graveyard where she specifically
picks out the fresh grave ofEleanor Adams for Ed to dig up
and defile.
This is quite the vindictiverevenge for a woman that was
just trying to teach her how tomake candles.

Ashley (07:51):
I do not understand why this character acts so
differently around Ed comparedto everyone else in her life.
It does not make sense to me.
This motivation is notarticulated at all.

Remi (08:03):
And I don't want to poo-poo the actress, but I don't
think the actress is very goodeither.
Adeline is just a nasty, awful,twisted character who, yeah,
doesn't really have anymotivation behind what she's
doing.
She's just twisted and fuckedup just because.
From here, Adeline moves to NewYork City for a supposed job

(08:29):
interview with famedphotographer Ouija, portrayed by
Elliot Gould.

Ashley (08:34):
And he is a real person.
He was a photographer andphotojournalist who became known
for his stark black and whitestreet photography in New York
City.
He developed his signaturestyle by following the city's
emergency services anddocumenting their activity.
Most of his work depictedrealistic scenes of urban life,

(08:56):
crime, injury, and death.
He published photography booksand actually worked in cinema.
He collaborated with directorssuch as Jack Donahue and Stanley
Kubrick.
Fun fact, if any of you haveseen Doctor Strange Love, the
accent of Doctor Strange Lovewas actually based on

(09:17):
photographer Ouija.
Many believed that the nicknameOuija was a phonetic rendering
of the Ouija board because ofOuija's instant and seemingly
mystical ability to suddenlyarrive at crime scenes.

Remi (09:33):
Ouija is an interesting choice of name.
It makes me think of Squeegee,like what you use to get stuff
off your windshield.
It's just a funny word to me.
No offense to anyone out therenamed Ouija.

Ashley (09:47):
So he actually did have a nickname of Squeegee Boy when
he was in school because of hisearliest job being in the photo
lab, so it was a reference tolike wiping down prints.
His real name is Asher Fellig.

Remi (10:02):
Okay, so it wasn't too far off with the whole Squeegee
reference there.
Back to our story, Adeline hasher meeting with Mr.
Ouija and shows him some of herphotographs.
You know, the one she's beentaking of the dead bodies that
Edgeen has been carving up inhis free time.

(10:22):
However, Ouija does not reactto Adeline's work how she had
hoped.
He basically says that she hasno talent and that she must be
the sole resident of a smalltown called No Talentville.

Ashley (10:39):
It's actually pretty funny, because she asks him to
like repeat it, because she'skind of flabbergasted at what
he's saying.
And not only does he repeat it,he repeats it slowly with more
descriptions.
So he's really telling her,Well, I asked if you were from a
town called No Talentsville,and if you are the only person

(11:03):
that lives there.
Photographer Luigi just schoolsAdeline.

Remi (11:07):
It's also kind of funny because when she first shows up
to the meeting, his response toher is, Why do you keep writing
me so many letters?
So it seems like she basicallypestered this guy into having a
meeting with her, and he justshut her down immediately.
So Adeline is forced to go backto her freezing apartment in

(11:32):
New York City, which doesn'tcome with heat or water because
she cannot afford it.

Ashley (11:38):
It is so cold, her tears freeze to her face.

Remi (11:41):
And that is the last draw for Adeline.
She is pretty pissed that it'sso cold, her tears are freezing
on her face.
So she goes down to complain tothe landlady.
They get into an altercation,and Adeline ends up beating the
landlady with her shoe androbbing her.
Meanwhile, back in Wisconsin,we get a scene of Ed wooing

(12:06):
Eleanor's corpse, as if it werea date.

Ashley (12:09):
And the next 10 to 15 minutes are just so disturbing.
All my notes are like, oh mygod, no, gross, no, this is
disturbing.
I hate this.

Remi (12:19):
Ed seems like a bashful person on a first-time date with
this corpse.
Ed offers her some Chianti,which is of course a Silence of
the Lambs reference.

Ashley (12:32):
Speaking of Silence of the Lambs, there are moths
flying in the corner of thescreens throughout this entire
episode.
Before this, we've really onlyhad one moth, and now they are
not all over the place, as theywill be in the next episode, but
they are noticeable.
So Remy and I at this point arethinking we're getting into the

(12:53):
Silence of the Lambs part ofthis movie, where we will have a
little scene of Anthony Hopkinsand Jonathan Demi and a young
Jodie Foster.

Remi (13:02):
Yeah, I'm waiting for it at this point.
They keep dropping all of thesesubtle, well, not so subtle
hints about it, but that's notwhere we end up in this or the
next episode.
We then get Ed playing thelovely song Love Vienne Rose on
the accordion, serenading thecorpse on the table.

(13:24):
Then Ed has sex with Eleanor'scorpse.
It is needlessly graphic, it isneedlessly long, and I am not
happy I ever saw it in the firstplace.

Ashley (13:38):
And unfortunately, this will not be the last time we see
Ed Gean in a compromisingposition with poor, poor Miss
Eleanor.

Remi (13:47):
We then cut back to Ashley's favorite character, the
bitch of Buckenwald, Ilsa Koch.

Ashley (13:54):
And I'm very mad at this point.
I hate this character.
I hate it, I hate it, I hateit.

Remi (14:00):
She wasn't in episode four, and I remember you saying
that was your favorite episodeso far because there were no
scenes of this Nazi lady.

Ashley (14:10):
It's just completely unnecessary.

Remi (14:13):
It really doesn't have much to do with anything,
especially knowing what we knownow after the research from our
previous episode, that a lot ofthese accusations turned out to
not be substantiated in any way.
So she was a cruel, horriblewoman who was awful to Jewish
internment camp prisoners.

(14:34):
But the stuff about her makingthe lamps and other things of
that nature were never proven.

Ashley (14:41):
And if you want to still include this character, just
show a prolonged scene of himreading the comics that he has
or reading something about her,and that's all you need.

Remi (14:50):
Yes, this is the fourth episode she's been out of five
so far, which is a lot for thischaracter.
That again has nothing to dowith anything.

Ashley (15:00):
And we certainly do not need the scene that comes to
send this character off.

Remi (15:07):
We see Ilsa being captured and tried for her crimes, then
imprisoned.
While imprisoned, sheapparently starts having sex
with one of the prison guards ona regular enough basis to claim
that she has been impregnated.
Now, the real story of IlsaKoch's downfall was that she was

(15:29):
convicted in the 1947 U.S.
Buckenwald trials for crimesagainst humanity.
Her initial trial took place atthe former Daschu concentration
camp in Germany, conducted byan American military court.

Ashley (15:46):
And we just visited there.

Remi (15:48):
We did.
We just recently had a trip toGermany, and this was amongst
the places that we visited.
It was a very powerful, movingexperience.

Ashley (15:58):
It was one of the first internment camps.
It was kind of like Hitler'sprototype for all of the ones to
come, and it was one that a lotof prisoners actually started
at.
So if you ever find yourself inMunich, we highly recommend you
paying a visit.
It only took us about 50minutes, maybe an hour, to get

(16:19):
there via public transportation.

Remi (16:22):
Well, back to the true story of Ilsa.
She is sentenced to lifeimprisonment that is later
reduced, then reinstated byGerman courts.
She died of suicide in prisonin 1967.
So 20 years after she wasinitially imprisoned.
And there's no reports of herbeing impregnated by any guards.

Ashley (16:46):
And Remy's leaving out a very disturbing part.
As Ilsa is being essentiallyraped by this prison guard
because she is not in a positionwhere she can provide consent.
We also flash to Ed having sexwith deceased Eleanor,
insinuating, not eveninsinuating, telling her that he
is fantasizing about IlsaKodch.

(17:08):
And at this point in theepisode, I am thinking, is
Charlie Hunnam's career gonnasurvive this?

Remi (17:16):
It is one of those scenes that makes you look at everyone
else in the room and be like,should we keep watching this?

Ashley (17:25):
There are also buzzing sounds and a couple minutes
where he's like spraying herwith perfume.
So it is being made explicitlyclear here that Eleanor is
decomposing.

Remi (17:38):
There's also flashes of his mother during this scene,
and there's flashes of theliving Eleanor's body in place
of the corpse during severalparts.
It's very distasteful andunnecessary, and it didn't
happen.

Ashley (17:54):
Especially because it didn't happen.
It would be distasteful to putthis in if it did happen, but it
didn't.

Remi (18:01):
Yeah, this is just another reminder that Edgean did not
have sex with any of the corpsesthat he dug up.
At least there was no evidencefound of that.

Ashley (18:13):
But, anyways, back to Adeline coming back because we
end here on another just verydisturbing interaction.

Remi (18:21):
Slowly creeping towards the finale of this episode,
Adeline returns to Plainfield,and she is none too happy about
it.
She goes back home for dinnerwith her mom, and they are both
drinking milk, which I alwaysfeel the need to point out.
It's only creepy charactersdrinking milk or infantile

(18:42):
characters drinking milk inmovies.
A lot of the times it's serialkillers or psychopaths that are
drinking milk.

Ashley (18:50):
You think mom would be thrilled to see sweet, sweet
daughter Adeline, but she'sreally not.

Remi (18:56):
Not at all.
In fact, mom basically hatesAdeline and tells her the story
of how when she was pregnantwith Adeline, she used to throw
herself down the stairs over andover and over again, attempting
to miscarry.
And she tops it all off bycalling Adeline a batshit Nimrod

(19:19):
daughter, amongst other things.

Ashley (19:22):
And at this point, I'm asking myself, why are all the
moms in not just this season,but this entire series so
horrible?

Remi (19:31):
So from here, Adeline, furious at her mom, runs over to
Ed's place and basically throwsherself at him, finally ready
to consummate their impendingmarriage.
Another reminder that Ed andAdeline are engaged.

Ashley (19:49):
But at this point, Ed wants nothing to do with
Adeline, at least sexually.

Remi (19:53):
Yeah, Ed won't go through with it because Adeline's body
feels too warm.
So the episode ends withAdeline taking an ice bath to
lower her body temperature.

Ashley (20:07):
And that brings us to episode six, Buxom Bird.

Ed Gein (20:14):
Oh, I sure could use a slice apple pie.

Ashley (20:17):
Let's just sit down and we can talk about it.
Remy, what is your tagline forepisode six?

Remi (20:24):
My tagline for this episode is Frank Discussions.
What is your tagline, Ashley?

Ashley (20:32):
It is also about Frank.
Mine is Frank Warden'sThanksgiving Plans Are
Disrupted.

Remi (20:40):
Now this episode opens with Bernice Warden and her son,
Deputy Sheriff Frank Warden,played by Charlie Hall.
They are planning aThanksgiving together.
Frank has been feeling reallylonely lately and wants to have
a family Thanksgiving with hismom.
And mom is not on board atfirst, but she gives in and they

(21:04):
are happy to start planningthis joyous family event
together.
The next time we see Frank, heis with his partner, Sheriff
Arthur Schley, played by TylerJacob Moore.
And they are popping into hismother's hardware store sometime
later during the morning.
What they find there isblood-streaked floors and a

(21:28):
missing cash register.
But that's not all.
Frank discovers a note writtenby his mother to Ed Gean in the
back room of the shop, which shehad included with her gifted
pair of underwear.

Ashley (21:42):
So we're getting some similarities and differences
here.
Frank Warden was the person whofound the crime scene after his
mother was killed by Ed Gean,but he was by himself.
He went to the shop after theopening day of hunting season.
And it was not a box of giftedundergarments that led deputies

(22:03):
to Ed Geen.
It was a receipt written forAntifreeze.

Remi (22:07):
And that is the end of the opening part of this episode.
And it is by far the tamestopening the show has had so far.
I was actually prettyimpressed.
From here, Frank and Arthurfollow up on the lead back to
Edgeen's home.
They let themselves insidethrough the unlocked front door,

(22:30):
and the place is disgusting andfilthy, and there are moths
everywhere, and I meaneverywhere.
There is like thousands ofmoths fluttering around this
place.
Exploring deeper into the home,they discover fingernails on
the kitchen table, a few skinlamps here and there, a nearly

(22:52):
complete woman suit hanging on aclothing line, several skin
masks, a pile of guts on thefloor, and last but not least, a
human heart boiling on thestove.

Ashley (23:04):
And at this point, I'm thinking they better have had a
warrant to be able to strollinto the house, or none of this
shit would be admissible.

Remi (23:13):
Ashley, I said the door was unlocked.

Ashley (23:16):
I know, but they went in without permission, and there
was nothing outside that theycould have seen that would have
drawn their attention inside thehouse where it would have been
okay for them to go in, and theyreally didn't have any
suspicion that he had anythingto do with Bernice's murder,
other than this note that wasn'teven a note, it just said
Eddie.

Remi (23:36):
Well, Frank is pretty desperate to find his mom.
He is really torn to piecesabout her being missing.
He is in denial that she isdead, but after making the
discoveries in Gean's home, theycall what appears to be every
single police officer in theentire state of Wisconsin, who
all come swarming Gean's home,searching inside, taking

(24:00):
pictures, and discover Gean'sdrawer full of dried vulvas.

Ashley (24:05):
A lot of the discoveries they show here are the same.
They do show the box of driedvulvas.
They do a quick cut to a pairof curtains that have lips for
the drawstrings, and then theyalso show some face masks, even
though these ones don't havehair.

Remi (24:22):
Well, outside of the House of Horrors, Ed comes casually
cruising up the driveway withouta care in the world.
Seemingly completely obliviousto the multitudes of police
officers surrounding him, andhe's just like, hey fellas,
what's going on?

Ashley (24:39):
Two comments here.
One, Ed didn't just drive ontohis property by happenstance as
a search was well underway.
In reality, they actually foundhim at a neighbor's home and he
agreed to go with them to hishouse.
Second, if they found all thisshit in someone's house, you're
trying to tell me there wouldn'tbe an extensive manhunt

(25:00):
tracking down Ed Gean.
There would be so manydetectives just out in the town
looking for him.
They seemed genuinelysurprised, like, oh yeah,
someone owns this home, and herehe is.

Remi (25:11):
Well, all of this seemingly happened very quickly.
It seems like Ed maybe justwent to the store or something
and came back, and all of thishad gone down.

Ashley (25:20):
No, it would take a good chunk of time to get that many
police over to this house to thepoint where they are well
within their search ofphotographing and getting this
stuff out of the house.
They've been doing this for atleast an hour.

Remi (25:34):
Well, Ed is arrested by Arthur while Frank goes in to
investigate Ed Gean's barn.
Inside, Frank finds hismother's headless, gutted corpse
hanging from the rafters, andbecomes totally enraged, loses
control, and starts beating Edsenselessly while Ed is in

(25:58):
handcuffs.
Here's a quick rundown of thereal story of Frank Warden.
Frank Warden was a deputysheriff and was the first to
discover the crime scene at hismother's hardware store, just
like you said, Ashley.

Ashley (26:14):
I did not know he was a cop.
I thought for sure that wasfake.

Remi (26:18):
He actually led the investigation that led to the
arrest of Ed Gean.

Ashley (26:24):
That would be such a conflict of interest, but I will
say if it's a small town, thatkind of thing could happen if
they didn't have enough peopleof his status to run it.

Remi (26:35):
Frank was also unfortunately actually the one
to discover his mother's bodyhanging in Ed Gean's barn.
Though he did not beat up EdGean while Gean was being
arrested, but Geane wasphysically assaulted during his
interrogation by the otherofficer who is depicted in this

(26:55):
episode, Sheriff Arthur Schley.

Ashley (26:58):
That is shocking.
I was convinced.
I was positive.
I was 100% positive that themshowing Frank Warden finding his
mother in the barn, which ishow she was strung up, was
complete fabrication.
I'm floored.
And I think this might havebeen when in the episode we both
commented on how different thevibe is already feeling.

(27:22):
This for the first time allseason, we're on episode six of
eight here.
For the first time, we aregetting an episode that
represents what we wereexpecting from this entire
season.
And I thought maybe thedirector was different, so I
looked it up, but no, this makesno sense.
This director, Max Winkler,directed all but two episodes of

(27:47):
this entire series.
The only two he did not directwere the last two we covered for
this podcast.
Those were directed by thewriter, Ian Brennan.

Remi (27:55):
We did mention several times to each other while we
were watching this episode howwe wished that this was the feel
of the whole season.
But before this, everything'sbeen very over the top, and this
one just seemed a bit moregrounded in reality.
There's some loony shit thatcomes in here and there, but I

(28:17):
really appreciated that thisepisode showcased one of the
victim's family members and hadyou actually sympathize with
them, as opposed to what theydid with Bernice, which was just
shit all over her legacy.
I mean, I would be deeplyoffended if I was a member of
Bernice's family and saw herdepiction in this series as

(28:40):
having some kind of a sexualrelationship with Ed Gean and
giving him her underwear.

Ashley (28:46):
I'm sure we'll mention this in our final summary of the
series, but this really trulyis, for the first time all
season, the only time, the firstand only time where we actually
like and feel for someone whois not Ed Gean.
I like these two detectives.
I feel so bad for Frank Warden.

(29:06):
That changes in the nextepisode, which is such a
disservice, but I'm reallyenjoying this episode, and it
just makes me nostalgic for whatwe could have gotten.

Remi (29:18):
And as soon as you start thinking that way, a little bit
of ridiculous shows up in theform of our girl Adeline.
She is informed of Ed's arrestand is soon being hounded by
relentless press and the media.

Ashley (29:35):
Which is a good little nod to the fact of how quickly
reporters descended onto thissmall town after news of Ed Gean
and his crimes broke.

Remi (29:46):
Adeline makes a statement to the press, completely decked
out in red, again, and playsdown her relationship with Ed,
while also claiming that she hadabsolutely no involvement in
his crimes.
And at this point, I am kind ofhoping and wondering if this is
another bit of Ed's fantasy andthis is not a real

(30:09):
relationship, but time willtell.

Ashley (30:11):
I was hoping that Ed Gean would somehow hear this
interview and be like, that'sbullshit.
She put the idea to do all ofthis in my mind.
Because I like Ed more thanAdeline.

Remi (30:23):
Adeline is horrible.
She is a twisted, awful littlewoman, and a huge embellishment
of the real woman.
Because none of this is true.
Everything with Adeline isridiculous, and all of it is
completely made up.
Next we head to Ed'sinterrogation.

(30:44):
Ed says he doesn't remembermurdering anyone, and he also
claims that he never ate anyoneeither.
But does admit to having a bitof a hobby of digging up dead
bodies.

Ashley (30:58):
And this interrogation, or kind of the overall vibe of
it, is pretty reminiscent.
Ed did say, at least initially,that he didn't remember killing
Bernice.
Actually, not initially.
That's something he maintainedthroughout the entirety of his
life.
And when he was talking aboutgrave robbing and how he was
being accused of murder, hespoke about these things

(31:20):
nonchalantly, almost as if hedidn't appreciate the gravity of
his situation.

Remi (31:25):
Ed does have a pretty laissez faire attitude towards
the whole interrogation thing,but he does agree to take a lie
detector test.
In fact, it's his idea.
And surprise, surprise, hepasses with flying colors.

Ashley (31:41):
In reality, he actually did take two polygraphs, but
during them, he wasn't askedabout Bernice Warden or Mary
Hogan.
It was just about the otherunsolved cases in the state.
And at this point, I'm askingmyself, do you think the murders
of the two men and thebabysitter were just
metaphorical and a way to tie inTexas Chainsaw Massacre?
I have no clue.

Remi (32:02):
I do not think that that was included just to rope in
Texas Chainsaw, because the realcase, there is no proof a
chainsaw was ever used.
So they just needed a crimewith Ed using a chainsaw.
He uses it a few more timesthroughout the series.
So I don't think that was theprimary motivation.
From here, we head to Bernice'sfuneral, where we see Frank

(32:28):
heartbroken and mourning theloss of his mother, while
Adeline watches from the backrow.
Outside, Adeline runs up toFrank, pretending to be a
reporter of some sort, andstarts asking him pretty
insensitive and offensivequestions about his recently

(32:49):
deceased mother.

Ashley (32:50):
And about what it was like to find her.

Remi (32:53):
She is shooed away by Frank's partner, Arthur, and
Arthur feels bad for Frank.
You know, he was gonna spendThanksgiving with his mom, and
now that's obviously nothappening.
So Arthur invites Frank over tohis place for Thanksgiving to
share the holiday with Arthurand his family.
Frank agrees and goes overthere, and everything's looking

(33:17):
pretty swell for the most part.
And I am legitimately feelingsorry for Frank.
Like, this guy seems so sad andforlorn, and I just really
sympathize with him in thisscene.
It's the only characterthroughout the entire series
that I ever have any sort ofemotional reaction to.

(33:41):
So Arthur starts cutting up theturkey using his new electric
carving knife.
And everything seems fine atfirst, even though Arthur is
doing a really shitty jobcutting the turkey.
He's just cutting it in likeevery direction.
And this causes Frank to havesome horrific visions of his

(34:03):
mother on the dining room tablethere, being carved up like a
turkey by Ed Geen.
And that is the end of thisepisode.

Ashley (34:14):
And so we end on a what the fuck moment, and that is
kind of a signal to me that,okay, we got one normal episode,
and now we are about to launchback into Crazyville for the
last two.

Remi (34:26):
And the next episode negates some stuff about Frank,
like the sympathy that I wasfeeling for him.
But I was legitimatelysurprised at how much I liked
this episode, and it really didleave me craving this sort of
tone for the rest of the series,and it's sort of ridiculous
that it took us five episodes toget here.

(34:46):
Spoiler alert, it doesn't stickaround.
Now let's get into episode 7,Ham Radio.

Ilsa Kotch (35:02):
Come.

Remi (35:03):
Ashley, what is your tagline for this episode?

Ashley (35:08):
Ed acclimates to life at Central State Hospital.

Remi (35:11):
My tagline for this episode is Charlie Hunnam acts
his ass off.

Ashley (35:18):
We have to wait until the very end to get that,
though.

Remi (35:22):
This episode opens in 1958, where we see Frank is now
a drunk drinking in his car inthe morning.
Frank is also suing the Edgeanestate and selling all of Gean's
property at an auction.
Now, a bit of a reality checkhere.
Frank is portrayed asstruggling with alcohol after

(35:44):
the tragedy, which is true, butthe show also implies that he
somehow participated in orcondoned the auction of Edgein's
belongings, which is completelyfalse.

Ashley (35:57):
Yeah, it does not make sense that this crime victim,
because Frank is a crime victim,would be somehow able to gain
complete control over hismother's murderer's estate and
then to just sell it off on hisown.
There was an auction, and itwas to help pay off lawsuits,
but it was done by like anauction company.

Remi (36:19):
Exactly.
Frank did not participate inthe auction in any capacity, and
in reality, he stayed as faraway from any attempt to turn
the Geen case into a spectacleas possible.
At the auction, Frank ispromoting the event like a flea

(36:40):
market sale, selling Ed'sbelongings and even charging
admission.
Like literally, he is in frontof the auction with a big
megaphone.
Well, I guess it's the oldenday version of a megaphone.
And he's calling out to peoplecome see Ed Geen's property.
It's all for sale.
Extra, extra.

Ashley (36:58):
This did happen.
There was admission that wascharged to view the items before
the auction, and the auctioneersaid they did this to help weed
out the people that were justcoming as tourists and ones that
were actually serious in makingpurchases.

Remi (37:13):
Frank claims that roughly 200 people are attending the
auction that day, and they areplanning on auctioning off
Gean's 1949 Ford Sedan, which inreal life sold for $760, the
equivalent of $8,300 today.

Ashley (37:32):
And throughout the whole opening of this scene, Frank is
just being really nasty toeveryone he's interacting with,
especially his old pal Arthur.
And it just makes me sad thatthe director or the writer
thought we had to like bringthis character down a notch,
because now I don't like Frankanymore.

Remi (37:50):
I totally agree.
So, well done, writers.
However, in the show, Frankdoes not get to profit off of
the Geen estate as much as heanticipated, because we cut to

(38:13):
the Geen estate completelyburned to the ground, with Frank
looking on with a sadexpression on his face.

Ashley (38:22):
And the Geen house really did burn down.
So most of the belongings weredestroyed.
They were still able to auctionoff some items in the show.
They just auctioned off thecar.
So I think that that barn,perhaps, that was attached still
had stuff in it that they couldsell.

Remi (38:39):
We also see that Adeline is apparently a reporter now, or
pretending to be one, whilealso still pretending to be a
victim of Ed Gean herself.
From here we go to CentralState Mental Hospital, where
things are going great for EdGean, and he seems to be loving

(39:00):
life.
He even gets $300 from theauction mailed to him there.
Oh, and he was even featured inan article in Life magazine.
So doing pretty well forhimself.
Ed's nurse is a lady namedSalty, and Ed gives Salty his
estate auction money in exchangefor three ham radios and a pair

(39:22):
of women's underwear.

Ashley (39:24):
Fun fact, he did use some of the money that he earned
through his job as like acarpentry helper at the hospital
to buy one ham radio, but henever gotta use it.

Remi (39:35):
So not three and no women's underwear.
We quickly learn the reason whyEd wanted three ham radios when
we cut back to your favoritecharacter, Ashley, the bitch of
Buckenwald, who is in prison andreceives one of Ed's ham
radios.
Ed talks to Ilsa over the hamradio while wearing the women's

(40:00):
underwear he was also given.
But Ilsa says that the storiesabout her are all lies, though
she still is a hardcore Nazi.
When Ed tells Ilsa about thethings he's done, Ilsa thinks
he's sick in the head.
But we quickly learn that allof this is just apparently a

(40:22):
therapy session with Ed and hispsychiatrist, and all of this
ham radio stuff is in his mindor some sort of a hallucination.

Ashley (40:32):
But it's really done poorly, because we're not really
sure if it is just supposed tobe representing the therapies
having with a psychiatrist.
At the end of the episode, theyinsinuate that it was all a
hallucination, but these scenesare just so drawn out, and there
is like maybe two, maybe threeclips, brief clips of the

(40:53):
psychiatrist.
So the metaphors just fallflat.

Remi (40:58):
The bitch of Buckenwald has definitely overstayed her
welcome.
She has been in almost everyepisode of this series, and I
reiterate, has nothing to dowith Ed Gean.

Ashley (41:10):
She was in a total of six out of eight episodes.
That's the most, other than EdGeane, of course, and maybe
Adeline.

Remi (41:18):
Well, after Eddie gets off the ham radio with Ilse, he is
diagnosed as a deviant, fullstop, and then has a seizure.
Wrapping up Elsa's storyline,she has the prison guard's baby,
which is immediately taken awayfrom her.
Then there is some random shitwith her in her prison cell and

(41:42):
a little mouse.
Then she eventually hangsherself.
And I also just realized thatIlsa is being played by Vicky
Kreps, the same actress whoco-starred with Daniel Day Lewis
in the Paul Thomas Andersonfilm Phantom Thread.
And I'm wondering if sheactually shaved her head for
this role, and if so, does shethink it was worth it?

(42:05):
Next up, Christine Jorgensen, atransgender singer and actress,
who receives Ed's second hamradio in the mail.
This conversation withChristine is also another
therapy session with Edhallucinating while he is
talking to the doctor.
Ed tells Christine that theyhave a lot in common, which is

(42:28):
then interspliced with clips ofEd wearing his full lady suit,
dancing around naked in the snowwithout a care in the world.
This leads into the infamousSilence of the Lambs Buffalo
Bill Tuck scene to the songGoodbye Horses by Q Lazarus.

Ashley (43:01):
I love that song.

Remi (43:07):
And sidebar here.
So, technically speaking, I ama gynaphiliac, and I know

(44:01):
several other people who aretoo.
However, the way it's stated inthe show made me assume that it
meant something way different.
Now, let's get into a quickhistory lesson on the real
Christine Jorgensen.
She was an American transgenderwoman who became the first

(44:21):
widely known person in theUnited States to undergo
gender-affirming surgery inDenmark 1952.
Her transition madeinternational headlines and she
became a symbol of transgendervisibility, later working as a
performer, author, and lectureradvocating for gender identity

(44:43):
acceptance.
So she was a pioneer anddefinitely had nothing in common
with Ed Gean.

Ashley (44:50):
And I do want to say, even though I've been shitting
on this show all season now forhow they have poorly executed
their metaphors, I actuallyreally liked this one.
They made it much more apparentthat this was supposed to be
either in his head or based ondiscussions with his therapist.
And Christine is just a waymore likable character than

(45:11):
Ilsakotch.

Remi (45:13):
In reality, Ed Gean was reportedly fascinated by her,
and magazine articles aboutChristine's reassignment surgery
were discovered by police inGean's farmhouse.
Meanwhile, Salty the Nurse getsdemoted, and Ed gets a new
super strict nurse named Roz.

Ashley (45:33):
I did look up both of these nurses.
I was hoping at least one ofthem would have been based on a
real person, since that doesseem to kind of be the trend
that we've been encountering,but nope, they're both just
entirely made up.

Remi (45:47):
And yet they went with the name of Salty.
Anyway, before beingreassigned, Salty sneaks into
Ed's room later that night andgives him the keys to his room
so he can get out and stretchhis legs once in a while.

Ashley (46:02):
Yeah, Salty definitely has some good and bad
characteristics here.

Remi (46:07):
Ed then, of course, leaves his room, grabs a chainsaw from
the mental hospital's chainsawcloset, corners Nurse Roz in the
bathroom, and slaughters hermercilessly using the second
biggest chainsaw I've ever seenin any movie or TV show.
And in case anyone waswondering, the first is from a

(46:28):
Nicolas Cage fight in the filmMandy.

Ashley (46:32):
This is obviously a what the fuck moment, and I'm just
kind of annoyed with this showat this point.
We've moved on from the TexasChainsaw Massacre.
You've already done somementioning of Silence of the
Lambs.
Why are we going back?
Edgeen was not this crazy inthe hospital to the point where
he was having these like intensehallucinations all day, every

(46:53):
day.
So it's just sensationalism.
They're trying to get areaction.
I don't know what they're goingfor here, but I don't like it.

Remi (47:00):
Well, this time Ed realizes that all of this is in
his head because the next day hesees Nurse Roz alive and well
with zero chainsaw scars.
During Ed's next therapysession, Ed tells his therapist
that he's been talking to a facein the ceiling, which he calls

(47:23):
the devil.
From here, we get to CharlieHunnum's big emotional scene,
where Ed breaks down afterrealizing that he can no longer
tell what is real anymore.
And Charlie Hunnum fuckingnails this.
He is absolutely phenomenal inthis scene.

(47:43):
He really gave this performance110%.
I just think that thescreenplay and material let him
down.
But he was phenomenal in thisrole and specifically
extraordinary in this scene.

Ashley (47:58):
Yeah, two episodes ago, I did pose the question to Remy
of if you think this might bethe end of Charlie Hunnam's
career.
And I want to make it clearthat I really, really, really
hope that is not the case.
Despite us shitting on thisseason throughout these
episodes, Charlie Hunum isgiving it his all.
If this show somehow does getan Emmy or Golden Globe

(48:21):
nomination, it better be for himand only him because he does
such a good job throughout thewhole season, and especially in
this scene.
It is really emotional.
He is really crying, and he isjust doing a great job
portraying someone who isrealizing that everything they
have thought was real couldpossibly not be.

(48:43):
And then in the next scene, heseems so at peace and calm for
the first time in his life.
And that is often what happensto people when they first get a
diagnosis and start to makesense of aspects in their life
that have just seemed sounsensible for so long.

Remi (49:00):
And he keeps the voice, that weird Kermit the Frog voice
that he's been doing the entireseason.
He maintains that throughoutthis emotional breakdown.
And I've been thinking aboutthe voice recently because I've
been editing a lot of our EdGean episodes.
And I gotta say, it is anunusual choice, but I kind of

(49:24):
dig it.
I think he created a veryunusual, memorable voice for
this character that at least meand Ashley have been
impersonating throughout theentire week.
So Charlie Hunnam is a standoutin this show.
I just think the show is not upto the level that he is on.

Ashley (49:46):
And finally, folks, episode 8, and it is titled The
Godfather.
Remy, what is your tagline forthe season 4 finale?

Remi (50:04):
Welcome to the Ed Gean Fan Club.
Let me introduce you to ourother members.
What is your tagline, Ashley?

Ashley (50:13):
Ed's crimes inspire more than just Hollywood.

Remi (50:17):
Our episode begins in Lake Samamish, Washington, which is
about eight miles outside ofSeattle.
We then see Ted Bundy trickinga helpless woman into helping
him by wearing a fake cast andspeaking with a British accent.
Bundy then bashes theunsuspecting girl in the head

(50:38):
with a blunt instrument,knocking her unconscious.
The girl wakes up sometimelater, hogtied next to another
girl, and Bundy plays eeny meenyminy moe to pick his first
victim.
We then cut to sometime later,where we see Bundy returning to
the scene of the crime so thathe can have sex with his

(51:01):
murdered victims, rottingcorpses.

Ashley (51:04):
These women were Janice Ott and Denise Masland.
They were kidnapped at LakeSamamish about four hours apart
on July 14, 1974.
And it is believed that heforced one to watch as he raped
and killed the other.
Their bodies were found onSeptember 6, 1974, along with a

(51:26):
third woman who had gone missingfrom the University of
Washington before them.
Two of them had their headsmissing.
During his final confessionsbefore his execution on January
24th, 1989, Ted Bundy did admitto revisiting the bodies of some
of his victims to performsexual acts.

(51:47):
Sometimes he even diddecapitate them and keep their
heads as mementos in hisapartment.

Remi (52:01):
Well, to be fair, that movie was from the perspective
of his wife, who knew nothing ofhis crimes.
But this had me wondering whythey didn't choose Ted Bundy as
the focus of this season insteadof Ed Gean.
Clearly, Ted Bundy has a lotmore stories woven into the real

(52:22):
life events than a loner likeEd Gean had.
And I also gotta say I did notexpect that Ted Bundy would be
showing up in this series atall.

Ashley (52:34):
And if they would have done someone like Ted Bundy,
they could have done what theydid in season one with Jeffrey
Dahmer, which is give usinformation about the victims.

Remi (52:43):
Which is one of the things that I loved about that Dahmer
season.
Almost every single victim hadan episode dedicated to them.
We got to know who they werebefore they met Dahmer.
And that made it so much moreof a powerful experience when
viewing because you cared aboutthese characters.

(53:06):
And in this show, people arejust introduced and dispatched
as if it was a scream movie.
Continuing on our road trip, weend up in Salem, Oregon, where
FBI agents John Douglas andRobert Ressler, previously
depicted on the Netflix seriesMindhunter, have come to

(53:28):
interview a big, tall serialkiller named Jerry Brudos, in
the hopes of gaining someinsight into the Bundy killings,
as he remains at large and hisidentity is still unknown,
garnering him the nickname thePacific Northwest Killer.
Here's a bit of background onthe real Jerry Brudos.

(53:52):
Jerry Brudos was an Americanserial killer and necrophile who
murdered at least four women inOregon between 1968 and 1969.
He had a lifelong fetish forwomen's shoes and underwear,
often stealing them as ateenager, and he later kept them
as trophies along with the bodyparts of his victims.

(54:16):
Brudos would strangle orbludgeon women, photograph their
corpses, and sometimes dressthem up before disposing of
their bodies.
He was eventually caught afterone victim's body was found in a
river, and he confessed to themurders.
Brudos was sentenced to life inprison, where he died in 2006.

(54:37):
Good riddance.
Returning to Jerry and theMindhunter Guys, we learn that
Jerry loves huffing panties,jizzing in shoes, and claims to
have been inspired by the crimesof Ed Gean.
While in reality, there is nodirect evidence that Jerry
Brudos was ever inspired by EdGean.

Ashley (55:00):
This is gonna be a trend that's gonna continue
throughout this entire episode.

Remi (55:17):
Jerry tries them on, but loves them so much that he just
has to start jerking off rightthen and there.

Jerry Brudos (55:26):
Yeah, I don't think I'll be able to
concentrate with these on.
I might have to jerk off.
You guys mind if I jerk off?
I don't mind if you watch.

Remi (55:35):
Since Jerry wasn't very helpful, the FBI go to Ed Gean
for help instead.
These days, Gean is old,wrinkled, and gray, but still
gets fan mail.
However, his delusions andsexual impulses have diminished
with age.
And he is also being presentedas much more of a Hannibal

(55:57):
Lecter type.
Gean is shown crime scenephotos of the Pacific Northwest
killer's victims, and Ed tellsthe agents what tools he would
have used to commit the samecrimes.

Ashley (56:11):
So in reality, Detectives Douglas and Riesler
did not talk to Ed Gean whileinvestigating Ted Bundy.
But John Douglas did brieflyspeak to him once early in his
career, but described themeeting as, quote, so psychotic
that it really wasn't much of aninterview.
This prevented Geane from beingunhelpful in the Mindhunters'

(56:35):
attempts at building criminalprofiles for serial killers.

Remi (56:39):
Our next stop is Crest Hills, Illinois, where we meet
the birdman, Richard Speck, amale inmate with large breasts
who prostitutes themselves toother inmates for cold hard cash
and the occasional crack rock.
He also reportedly killed eightstudent nurses in a Chicago

(57:00):
townhouse while tripping on LSD.
One woman survived by hidingunder the bed, which led to
Richard's arrest.

Ashley (57:15):
He was convicted of all eight murders on April 15th,
1967, and sentenced to death,but his sentence was later
reduced to life without thepossibility of parole, and he
died of a heart attack onDecember 5th, 1991.

Remi (57:30):
And according to the show, after he was sentenced to
death, that was eventuallyoverturned because Illinois
abolished the death penalty.
Oh, and Richard also claims tohave been inspired by Ed Geane.

Ashley (57:47):
Not only inspired by Ed Geane, he calls Ed Gean his
idol.
But as you can probably guess,there was no evidence that
Richard Speck took anyinspiration from Ed Gean at all.

Remi (57:58):
Back at the mental hospital, we see Ed Geane making
himself a snazzy nipple belt,which probably isn't real, or
maybe it's a flashback.
I really don't know at thispoint.

Ashley (58:11):
He's making nipple carvings, and at another point,
he's in his little office, andthere's just newspaper clippings
about murders all over hisworkstation, and no hospital
would let either of these thingshappen.
This is very, very unconduciveto recovery.

Remi (58:29):
He's teaching the other patients leatherworking in this
mental hospital.
That is the last thing in theworld that they would have this
particular patient teaching.

Ashley (58:40):
Well, he actually did work as a carpentry assistant,
was making little handiworkthings.

Remi (58:45):
That's totally different than leatherworks.
Come on.
After finishing up his belt,Geen casually strolls through
the hallway, minding his ownbusiness, when an incredibly
agile mental patient jumps onhis back and starts biting his
neck like a rabid chimpanzee.
After this, Ed decides thatthings have gotten a little too

(59:09):
crazy for him in the mentalhospital, and he is ready to
leave.
But deep down he knows thatthat will never happen.
However, Ed isn't too happyknowing that what he did is now

(59:42):
inspiring others to do far worsethings.
Ed next gets a visit fromDeputy Sheriff Will Stanton, who
is visiting after receiving aletter from Ed.
Ed wants to help the sheriffcatch a killer currently on the
loose in Florida.
Which does turn out to also beTed Bundy.

(01:00:03):
Ed decided to reach out toSheriff Stanton because he
doesn't think that the FBI tookhim very seriously during their
meeting, but still is eager tohelp.
And surprisingly is able toreveal that the killer's name is
Ted, and he also knows theexact type of vehicle Ted is

(01:00:25):
currently driving.
Apparently, Ed got thisinformation from Richard Speck,
who received a revealing fanletter from Bundy and forwarded
it to Gean upon his request.
Both you and I actuallyimmediately called bullshit the
second that this scene happened.

Ashley (01:00:47):
This probably comes as a surprise to literally nobody,
but Richard Speck did not getmail from Ted Bundy, and Ed Gean
did not get mail from RichardSpeck.

Remi (01:00:59):
None of these people were communicating with each other
despite what the show would likeyou to believe.
Ed later learns while watchingthe news one day that his tip
led to Ted Bundy's capture.

New Broadcast (01:01:15):
A tip from a yet-identified informant who
gave police a very accurate andthorough profile of a rapist and
murderer, who authoritiesbelieve is rebounded to be a
good thing.

Remi (01:01:33):
And that was, of course, Lois, the mental patient, who
tells everyone that she meets togo suck cocks.

Ashley (01:01:39):
In reality, Ted Bundy was captured during a just
routine traffic stop in 1978after he did the Tri-Omega
sorority murders at FloridaState University.
Evidence leading to his arrestwas not from an unidentified
informant.
And right after the scene, Edis boasting to everyone who will

(01:02:01):
listen to him that he helpedcatch a serial killer, and
everyone just kind of looks athim and is like, sure Eddie,
sure, Eddie.
So now I'm asking myself, isthis supposed to be another
hallucination?
Again, unclear.

Remi (01:02:13):
Ed then passes out in his wheelchair, and both Ashley and
I thought he was dead at thispoint, but no, he's just asleep,
and we get a fun dream sequencefeaturing Charles Manson, Ed
Kemper, Jerry Brudos, andRichard Speck, all fangirling

(01:02:33):
out over Ed Geen.
After this absurd sequence, weget a scene with Ed and Roz, who
are now friends, after Edrealizes that he didn't kill her
with a chainsaw.
However, Roz has some bad newsfor Ed and reveals that he has
stage 4 cancer.

(01:02:55):
The two have a bit of adiscussion about how Ed's story
has been misinterpreted andembellished over the years.
And the show seems to beinsinuating that Ed Gean is the
quote-unquote godfather ofserial killers.

Ashley (01:03:14):
I had two thoughts with this whole scene.
One is it's actually prettyendearing because Ross is the
nurse he wanted to murder withthe chainsaw in last episode,
and she is really treating himwith kindness, and they do seem
to have developed a genuinerespect for each other.

Remi (01:03:33):
They're like best friends now.

Ashley (01:03:35):
The other thing is what she is telling him about people
twisting the story andsensationalizing it, I found
very ironic because isn't thatexactly what this series has
been doing all season?
Was this intentional?
Is this supposed to be acommentary?
Is this supposed to be thedirector saying, Fuck you all?
I don't know.

Remi (01:03:55):
Took the words right out of my mouth because next Ed is
paid a visit by Adeline.
Hey, she's back.

Ashley (01:04:04):
And bitch has not aged a day, despite Ed being 30 years
older.
They just threw some glasses onher face and were expecting us
to think that this was supposedto be a 60-year-old, 70-year-old
woman.

Remi (01:04:17):
Ed is far grayer and wrinklier than Adeline, which
made me think that Adeline mightend up being one of his
hallucinations.
But spoiler alert, she doesexist.
She is not a fantasy.
She is still just as crazy asever, and even has a death list

(01:04:39):
that she shows to Ed.
However, years of mentalillness have left Adeline far
less energetic and boisterousthan she was in her younger
days.
Ed and Adeline share a tendermoment together, and then that's
the end of Adeline.
Which brings us to the finaleof Monster, the Ed Gean story,

(01:05:04):
where we see Ed slowly passingaway while watching Owner of the
Lonely Heart by Yes.
Of course.

(01:05:38):
Wasn't that exactly what youwere expecting?

Ashley (01:05:41):
And then we still have four to five minutes left.

Remi (01:05:44):
At the end of this absurd music video sequence, Ed finds
his mother waiting for him atopa grand staircase, just like
Leonardo DiCaprio at the end ofthe film Titanic.
Augusta tells Ed that she'sproud of him for what he's done
to the family name.
And then Ed Gean finally dies.

(01:06:08):
Halloween years later, Gean'sgrave is being desecrated and
torn apart by a group of rowdyteenagers.
One of the teens is dressed asa Boy Scout and wanders off into
the graveyard.
While he's out there, he seesNorman Bates, Buffalo Bill, and
Leatherface all hanging outtogether.

(01:06:30):
And he gets freaked out, sodecides to hightail it out of
there.
As he drives off with hisfriends, Norman, Bill, and
Leatherface all disappear,leaving only Ed Gean standing
there holding a chainsaw, as hebegins to dance around like
Leatherface at the end of TexasChainsaw.

(01:06:52):
We get one final scene herewith Ed and his mom chilling on
their front porch, enjoying abeautiful day, as Ed's mom tells
Eddie, only a mother could loveyou.

Ashley (01:07:05):
God, it was literally the episode that would never
end.

Remi (01:07:10):
It started to feel like Lord of the Rings there for a
while.
It seemed like it could haveended multiple times, but just
kept going.
We had more than one musicvideo in this episode.
Which seems unnecessary for anEd Geen miniseries.
But call me crazy.
And that thankfully brings usto the end of Monster the Ed

(01:07:34):
Geen Story.
Now I'm sure you have a lot ofthings to say about this
miniseries, Ashley, as do I.
But before we get into all ofthat, what did critics and
audiences think of the previousseasons of Monster?

Ashley (01:07:55):
So season one of Monster, the Jeffrey Dahmer
story, got mixed to averagereviews from critics.
On Rotten Tomatoes, criticsgave it a 57% rating versus the
82% audience approval rating.
The critical consensus readwhile Monster is seemingly

(01:08:15):
self-aware of the peril ofglorifying Jeffrey Dahmer,
creator Ryan Murphy's salaciousstyle nevertheless tilts this
horror story into the realm ofqueasy exploitation.
Season one of Monster wasnominated for four Golden
Globes, including Best Limitedor Anthology Series or

(01:08:36):
Television Film, and Best Actor,Best Supporting Actress, and
Best Supporting Actor in aLimited or Anthology Series or
Television Film.
And as we mentioned in thebeginning of part one of the
bonus episode reviewing thisseries, Evan Peters won the Best
Supporting Actor category.
It was also nominated for fiveEmmys with Nisi Nash taking home

(01:08:59):
the award for Best SupportingActress in a Limited or
Anthology series or movie.

Remi (01:09:04):
Who did she play in the Dahmer season?

Ashley (01:09:07):
She played the mother of one of the victims.

Remi (01:09:10):
Ah, yes, you just showed me a picture of her, and I
remember her well from thatseason.

Ashley (01:09:16):
I remember she was only in maybe two episodes.
Possibly three, but I feel likeit was only two and not for
very long, but she gave a veryconvincingly emotional
portrayal.

Remi (01:09:29):
This was probably my favorite season amongst the
three so far.
I thought that Evan Peters wasbrilliant as Dahmer, and I don't
think it was glorifying him.
I don't think anyone walkedaway from that series thinking,
wow, Jeffrey Dahmer is cool.
It wasn't showing him in apositive light at all.

(01:09:53):
And I really admired the factthat they spent several episodes
highlighting the victims andmaking us know who they were and
understand them as a humanbeing before meeting their end,
as opposed to other seasons likethe current one that don't
really bother to do that.

Ashley (01:10:15):
And that was something we had talked about as we were
watching this.
Of all three seasons, theJeffrey Dahmer story is the one
I knew the most about.
I knew a lot about JeffreyDahmer.
There wasn't a lot of new stuffthat I gained from this season
from his perspective.
But what this season did thatwas unique is it did focus so

(01:10:36):
much on so many of the differentvictims, and we learned a lot
about them.
And on each episode, we woulddo a cursory Google search.
I'll bet, not as deep as a diveas we've done for this season.
But we did Google a lot ofthings, and a lot of things
turned out being true.
Well, and that takes us toseason two.

(01:10:56):
This one was Monsters, the Lyleand Eric Menendez story.

Remi (01:11:02):
This was a story I had heard of, but was far less
familiar with than the JeffreyDahmer story.

Ashley (01:11:12):
Well, similar to season one, it got mixed or average
reviews from critics.
It got 45% from critics and 58%from audiences on Rotten
Tomatoes.
So we are going down here.

Remi (01:11:26):
That's surprising to me.
I thought it was a prettywell-made season, and I thought
Javier Bardem and the two leadsdid a fantastic job.

Ashley (01:11:37):
The critical consensus read
off-puttingly sorted.
Monsters leaves viewers feelingguilty without enough pleasure
to compensate.
It was nominated for threeGolden Globes and four Emmys,
but did not win any.

Remi (01:11:55):
It seems like these series get a lot of flack for showing
the things that maybe youshouldn't show on a miniseries
like this.
These shows really do seem toget into the nitty-gritty, and
they don't shy away from tellingthe audience what happened.
That is not in reference tothis current season.

(01:12:18):
However, I feel like theprevious seasons did a good job
of doing that.
Was it salacious?
Yes.
But I still feel like theycaptured the emotional essence
needed while also making us notsympathize for the criminals in
this situation.

Ashley (01:12:37):
Well, and this season would also have episodes that
were kind of geared towards thedifferent brothers' perspective
of things.
So it was illustrating rightoff the bat that whatever
episode we are focusing on,whoever is kind of portrayed as
the main character, this iscoming from their perspective,
not necessarily saying this isfact or fiction.

Remi (01:12:58):
And this season was a lot less over the top than the first
and third season.
This was the most grounded ofall seasons, in my opinion, as
far as crazy out there imageryand things like that.

Ashley (01:13:14):
And it also led to a whole movement to get these guys
out of prison.
That is beyond the scope ofwhat we're going to talk about
in this podcast.
But this series, even though itby Ron Tomato standards wasn't
very well liked by critics oraudiences, it put the Menendez
brothers back in the spotlightand they were able to petition
for release.

(01:13:34):
Both of them were denied, butnonetheless, it really boosted
them into the spotlight.
Well, now let's get to seasonthree.
Monster, the Ed Geen story.
Now we're at 17% by critics onRotten Tomatoes and 53% by
audience.

(01:13:54):
Slight dip from last season.
It's still pretty new, sothere's no critical consensus
yet.

Remi (01:14:02):
17% for a mini-series?
I can't even think of a TV showor miniseries that scored that
low.
That is horrendous.
And you know what?
I kind of agree with it.

Ashley (01:14:18):
Looking back at all the ratings for these, I have to say
I think I agree most with theaudience scores.
82% for season one feels right.
58% for season two feels prettylow, in my opinion.
I thought the acting in thatwas just absolutely superb
across the board.
53% for season three feelsabout right, possibly even a

(01:14:41):
little high.

Remi (01:14:42):
17% though, that is the rock bottom.
I mean, I expected a lowrating, but wow, that's really,
really, really a step down forthis show.

Ashley (01:14:55):
Well, let's kind of talk about some of our biggest
qualms about this season.
And I want to do that becausewe chose to do this as our
season five bonus episodesbecause we were genuinely so
excited for season three ofMonster.
And I'm just so disappointed bywhat we got.

(01:15:15):
So, Remy, what are kind of someof your biggest takeaways,
qualms you have with the season,things you wish would have gone
differently?

Remi (01:15:25):
First off, I don't think that the story of Ed Geen is
enough to fill an eight-episodeminiseries where each episode is
one hour.
He was a guy who was prettylonely and spent all of his time
alone with dead bodies or hismother.

(01:15:47):
That doesn't really give a lotof room for a full story.
You can't just have a guy alonewith dead bodies.

Ashley (01:15:54):
It also doesn't give you any other characters to latch
on to and root for.

Remi (01:16:00):
Exactly, which is why this miniseries decided to embellish
that and basically take anyrumor or urban legend about Ed
Gean and incorporate it into thestory.
In the end, I do think all ofthat was supposed to be in

(01:16:20):
Gean's head and be some sort ofhallucination.
However, I don't think it wasdifferentiated enough to really
make that sort of impact.

Ashley (01:16:32):
Everything was in his head.
By everything, what do you meanby everything?

Remi (01:16:36):
I think all the crazy exaggerated shit like him with a
chainsaw, him killing thebabysitter, him killing those
two random dudes that were onhis property.
I think all of that wassupposed to be in his head.
The problem was the way that itwas portrayed on screen did not

(01:16:58):
accurately convey that, in myopinion.

Ashley (01:17:01):
Well, and the problem is, I don't think Ed Gean was
hallucinating himself, killingpeople with the chainsaw.

Remi (01:17:08):
I do not either.
I do think that Ed Gean had alot of psychological issues
going on and quite possiblyvisual hallucinations as well.
However, I don't believe thatEd Geane was reading things
about himself and thenimmediately starting to envision

(01:17:29):
himself do those things as ifit was part of his own reality,
which is what the show portrays.

Ashley (01:17:37):
I think they needed a way to link in these movies,
which I do appreciate they did,and they tried to do it in a
creative and unique way, but itjust fell flat for me because of
something I've drilled homethroughout this entire series.
In my opinion, it's reallyunclear when something is
supposed to be a metaphor andwhen it's not supposed to be a

(01:17:57):
metaphor.

Remi (01:17:59):
And as we discussed in our Ed Gean and Hollywood episode,
when it comes down to it, theseactually don't take a lot from
the real Ed Gean.
They take pieces here andthere, but they do embellish
them and make them much morehorrific.

Ashley (01:18:18):
Well, and that was another qualm I had when they
were even telling us about thedirectors of Psycho and Texas
Chainsaw Masker, they made itseem like these guys were
obsessed with Ed Gean and likeengrossing themselves in Ed
Geane, and that these characterswere 100% Ed Gean, and we also
know that's not true.

Remi (01:18:39):
Exactly.
Ed Gean was more of a side notein these writer-directors'
creative process.
Some of the stuff they heardabout Gean was incorporated into
these characters, but when itcomes down to it, Bates,
Leatherface, and Buffalo Billare all completely different

(01:19:01):
than Ed Gean.
So trying to weave thosecharacters into the actual story
as it's going on doesn't work.
Ed Gean never used a chainsaw.
He never kept women in a pit.
He never owned a hotel.
He had very little in commonwith these characters, yet the

(01:19:22):
miniseries is trying toincorporate them as if certain
things that Gean did is leadingto the film's interpretation.
When in actuality, all of thesefilms took influence from
multiple sources besides Gean.

Ashley (01:19:40):
Well, now that we've aired our grievances, let's
channel one of our favoritepodcasts.
They end each of their episodessaying what went right about a
movie set.
So, Remy, what went right, inyour opinion, about Monster
Season 3?

Remi (01:19:58):
Charlie Hunnum.
Charlie Hunnam gave 110% tothis performance.
And the material and directinglet him down.
But this guy was on board andhe gave it his all.
He created a very uniquecharacter, and he was able to,

(01:20:20):
in the moments that allowed him,portray real emotion.
And I'm kind of sad that he wassaddled with the worst out of
all of the seasons.
Because if he was given theright script, this could have
been phenomenal.
But like I said, the story ofGeen really doesn't warrant an

(01:20:43):
eight-episode miniseries.

Ashley (01:20:45):
I agree.
Usually the hosts of What WentWrong try to pick two different
things, but honestly, I feellike Charlie Hunnum went so
right with this that he deservesboth of our votes.
Like that second to lastepisode, the end scene, where he
is just giving it his all andso emotional, it was really

(01:21:07):
heartbreaking.
And that kind of brings me toanother point.
It's kind of a fault of CharlieHunnam that I'm even mentioning
this.
But something I disliked aboutthis whole season is the only
character I liked or ever feltfor, except for Frank, in one of
the two episodes he was in wasEd Geen.

(01:21:28):
That's it.
I didn't feel anything foranyone else.
Or if I did feel something forany other character, it was
disdain.

Remi (01:21:36):
That is another thing that I would say went right.
The episode focusing on Frankdealing with the fallout of the
death of his mother, and how heis just completely torn up about
it and so sad and lonely.
It is the only time in theseason, besides the scene that

(01:21:59):
you mentioned where Ed Geen isrealizing he's crazy and Charlie
Hunham is just giving it asall, that I actually feel for a
character.
And I should feel for everycharacter that has been in this
show.
I should especially feel forall the victims.
I should feel for Mary fromMary's Tavern, who barely got

(01:22:22):
any sort of screen time orbackstory or anything in the
show.
And Bernice Warden, whoseactual story is just shit on in
this show.
I would be furious if I was adescendant of her or any of her
family living today that sawthis show.
It is offensive.

Ashley (01:22:44):
Something else that was so interesting to me is that
they did not include even asingle scene with anyone who had
a family member that was dugup.
All of those people that wererelated to a person that Edgeen
dug up and desecrated, they arealso all crime victims.

(01:23:05):
And that would be extremelyalarming and unsettling if
someone did that to a loved oneof yours.
And the fact they didn'tinclude even a montage of a cop
trying to talk to these peopleto figure out who they were,
that's such a disservice.

Remi (01:23:23):
Well, that's because they were spending a bunch of time
with Adeline, a character who isvery tangenally related to the
true story, that the miniseriesdecided to turn into a
full-fledged character with acrazy ass backstory.

Ashley (01:23:41):
Adeline and the bitch of Buckenwald and all of these
crazy hallucinations linking inmovies and serial killers, and
this was just not what we wereexpecting from Monster Season 3
when we decided to do this as abonus episode.

Remi (01:23:57):
Ed Geen helped catch Ted Bundy.
Who the hell saw that coming?
Not me, because it is crazyhistorically inaccurate.

Ashley (01:24:07):
Remy, what are you hoping for for season four?
For those of you who don'tknow, season four has already
been announced.
It apparently is alreadyfilming, or at least in the
stages where it's about to startfilming.
It is going to be about LizzieBorden, and Charlie Hunnam is
returning as her dad.

Remi (01:24:25):
I honestly do not know a ton about the Lizzie Borden
story.
I haven't seen any of themovies or miniseries or any of
those things about her.

Ashley (01:24:37):
For those of you who don't know, there are two movies
about Lizzie Borden.
One with Christina Ricci, and asecond one with Chloe Savenier
as Lizzie Borden and KristenStewart as her house servant
maid, and they basicallyinsinuate that the reason Lizzie
Borden did this was because,and when I say did this, I mean

(01:24:59):
kill her parents, was becauseshe was having a lesbian
relationship in the 1800s withher housemaid.

Remi (01:25:07):
And I'm sure season four of Monster will be leaning into
that heavily.
However, I haven't seen any ofthese different versions.
And it's a story I don't know alot about.
So I will watch the new season,but I am much more skeptical

(01:25:27):
and less excited about it than Iwould have been.

Ashley (01:25:32):
Well, I called it.
I told you that the next seasonwas gonna be a woman.
I didn't think it was gonna beLizzie Borden.
I'm kind of concerned about itbecause this is an old, old, old
crime.
So there's gonna be even lesssolid fact for them to draw on.
I guarantee you they're gonnalean into that lesbian rumor
storyline.

Remi (01:25:53):
You thought it was gonna be Eileen Warnos, right?
That was one of the storiesthat you thought that they might
be doing.

Ashley (01:25:59):
That was one I thought could have been a possibility,
yeah.
I definitely thought it wasgonna be a woman.

Remi (01:26:05):
I'm surprised they're not going into any of the bigger
serial killers here.
Starting off with Dahmer andthen going to the Menendez
brothers, and then this latestseason with Geen, which in my
opinion was a loner who didhorrible stuff with corpses
mostly.
It's interesting that theydidn't turn the attention to one

(01:26:27):
of the other serial killers outthere.

Ashley (01:26:30):
I think they're trying to keep it quote unquote fresh
by featuring different types ofmonsters.

Remi (01:26:36):
It has been very different each season, so I will give
them that.

Ashley (01:26:41):
Well, one thing I will say, I'm gonna be very hopeful
that Ryan Murphy kind of has amore active role in season four.
If he does, I'm gonna have alittle more hope for it.
I think many people might notremember, but as I mentioned in
part one of this bonus episode,Ryan Murphy was completely
hands-off on this.
He has a created by andproducing credit.

(01:27:04):
In season one and two, he had adirecting and writing credit.

Remi (01:27:08):
I'm gonna call it right now.
Season five is going to be theguy from the Don't Fuck with
Cats documentary, Luca Mignata.
I think that is primed for amonster series.

Ashley (01:27:25):
Well, and another one they could do is Carla Homoca
and Paul Bernardo.
They were a couple that killedseveral people in Canada.
So plenty of ways to includenew quote-unquote monsters.
And based on what we've seenthus far, I think that's kind of
what they're going for here.

Remi (01:27:44):
I think the series started off really strong with Dahmer.
And then when the MenendezBrothers were announced for the
second season, I know you and Iwere kind of like, oh right, I
don't really know a lot aboutthe Menendez brothers, so we
went into that with an open mindand were pleasantly surprised.
And when we heard this seasonwas Geen, we were very excited

(01:28:08):
hearing that Charlie Hunnam wason board for this and the
quality of the previous twoseasons.
But if the show keeps up at thequality of this past season, I
don't know, man.
I don't think I'll even be ableto make it through Lizzie
Borden.

Ashley (01:28:24):
Yeah, we'll close this by just saying that Ian Brennan,
possibly Ryan Murphy.
Step it up, you guys.
And until then.

Remi (01:28:33):
Court is adjourned.
And join us next time for ButchCassidy and the Sundance Kid.
Completely different.