September 22, 2025 • 33 mins
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Drowning in debt? You're not alone. This eye-opening conversation with financial expert John Ezell cuts through the confusion to reveal why so many of us struggle with debt—and exactly how to break free.
The shocking truth? Most people have no idea where their money actually goes. One friend of John's discovered he was spending $2,200 monthly just on fast food lunches with his son. Another listener's mother spent hundreds monthly on cigarettes while claiming she had no money. These spending blind spots keep us trapped in financial stress, but there's a way out.
We dive deep into practical strategies that work in real life, not just theory. Learn the critical first step of tracking every dollar for 30 days (without judgment), then discover how to create a budget that feels liberating rather than restrictive. As John perfectly puts it: "A budget isn't about restriction; it's about direction. You're telling your money where to go instead of wondering where it went."
The episode breaks down two powerful debt elimination methods—the emotionally satisfying "debt snowball" versus the mathematically optimal "debt avalanche"—while explaining why psychology often matters more than pure numbers when conquering debt. We also explore creative ways to build an emergency fund (like the acquaintance who delivered pizzas part-time and eliminated all debt in three years), and why learning to delay gratification transforms your financial future.
Whether you're drowning in debt or simply want to optimize your financial life, this conversation delivers actionable wisdom without judgment or complicated jargon. By the end, you'll understand exactly what's been draining your wallet and have a clear roadmap to financial freedom. Ready to take control of your money? This is your starting point.
Order your copy today of "Achieve Optimal Brain Health with Nutrition," by Stefan McDermott.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DYWMB929
www.stefanmcdermott.com
Would you like Santa Claus and Mrs. Claus to come to your home or office? Contact The Santa Steven at Steven@theSantaSteven.com or book a party on https://www.gigsalad.com/the_santa_steven_aubrey or call 469-230-5956 for more information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Steven Killfoil (00:14):
Cross Roads Podcast welcomes you to Money
Moves for those who want to bein the know.
(00:39):
Good morning Cross Roads.
Welcome back to Money Moveseveryone.
I'm your host, Steven Killfoil,and today we've got a topic
that hits close to home for alot of folks, Debt.
(00:59):
Yep, that four-letter word thatsomehow feels longer than it
should.
But don't worry, becausejoining me is someone who knows
a thing or two about moneysmarts.
My guest today John Ezell.
John, how's it going?
John Ezell (01:18):
Hey, Steve, it's going great, thank you, and I'm
ready to talk about everyone'sfavorite hobby, owing money.
Steven Killfoil (01:29):
Yeah, because nothing says fun like that
monthly statement reminding youthat you're still paying for
that pizza you ordered in 2017.
John Ezell (01:40):
Right, Exactly, and hey, we're here to help some
people today to break that cycle, and I'm looking forward to it.
Steven Killfoil (01:49):
Absolutely Well .
So let's dive in First thingsfirst.
If you're trying to get out ofdebt, you've got to figure out
where your money's going right.
John Ezell (02:00):
That's right.
In fact, most people think theyknow where their money's
actually going, but they don'ttrack it.
And when they do begin to trackit, they're shocked at how it
goes out the window, so to speak, with regard to the speed,
because they're just not payingattention.
(02:20):
For example, to find out thatyou four hundred dollars a month
at the coffee shop okay, well,that's your prerogative, but if
you've got any debt, maybe youought to be focused on a
combination of the two somecoffee and some debt, right?
Steven Killfoil (02:35):
Exactly you were telling me about a partner
business that you were helpingthe they.
They found out they werespending an exorbitant amount on
eating lunch.
John Ezell (02:49):
Yeah, tell them about that so this was a
personal friend of mine.
Uh, he had a successfullandscaping business, he and his
son, and he had some otherworkers too.
But it turned out that oncethey started tracking their
expenses, what they found wasthat for lunch, only for a month
(03:15):
, they would spend betweenChick-fil-A or McDonald's $2,200
for two people.
Steven Killfoil (03:25):
And that's not hard to do if you're not paying
attention and you just land theplastic down and keep on going.
John Ezell (03:31):
And that's what they were doing.
Once they found that out, itshocked them, got their
attention and, at a minimum,they started bringing a sandwich
periodically, you know sothat's a good idea.
They took that savings let'scall it two thousand.
They still had some spendingwhen they were out, but they
(03:52):
tried to get on top of this.
They took that two thousanddollars and started accelerating
all their debts.
Yeah, and it's some.
It's miraculous.
It doesn't have to be $2,000.
It can be whatever the figureworks for you, but anything is
better than making those minimumpayments.
Steven Killfoil (04:10):
Oh yeah, my mother, God rest her soul.
She used to fight and fight andfight with me.
She said I just don't have anymoney, I have no money.
I said, Mom, you have money,you just don't want to stop
smoking.
John Ezell (04:23):
That was a retirement account for her right
Steven Killfoil (04:25):
Right.
And when I finally, I just satdown and I put it in black and
white and put it before her andyou know she, she gave me the
argument well, I've been smokingsince I was 16.
I'm not going to quit.
And then I said well then,don't complain about not having
money,
John Ezell (04:42):
right, yeah,
Steven Killfoil (04:42):
cause I was crazy.
She sent me to the store onetime I was visiting her for a
carton of cigarettes and abottle of gin.
The ticket for a carton ofcigarettes and a bottle of gin,
I mean, this is like a the literbottle
John Ezell (05:02):
sure
Steven Killfoil (05:03):
two hundred dollars
John Ezell (05:05):
it must have been some good gin
Steven Killfoil (05:07):
well, no, it was the cigarettes.
Yeah, I couldn't believe it
John Ezell (05:11):
For the carton yeah
Steven Killfoil (05:12):
Yeah, I said wow, man.
I mean it's 10 bucks a pack.
There's, you know, 20 packs, 10packs in a carton.
John Ezell (05:21):
Yeah, wow, wow, wow, wow.
Steven Killfoil (05:24):
I'm glad I quit smoking, I'd be broke
John Ezell (05:27):
For sure, for sure, between that eating out and
going to the equivalent ofStarbucks so often that they
know your dog's name
Steven Killfoil (05:39):
yeah, no kidding
John Ezell (05:41):
and your favorite drink right,
Steven Killfoil (05:42):
of course, of course
step-by-step standpoint.
So the first step is really totrack every dollar that you're
spending for at least 30 days.
In the old days, when we got areceipt for everything, I would
(06:04):
tell people put it in a plasticbag, put it in a lunch bag,
whatever, and at the end of themonth get them all out, add them
all up.
You know you don't have to doit that way.
We do things online.
Most of us today.
Go ahead and get a notebook andstart writing these things down
.
You could use an app it doesn'thave to be a notebook.
(06:25):
It doesn't really matter, justknow where the money is going,
and this is a judgment-free zone.
That first month You're justwriting it all down.
So you can get your arms aroundit
Absolutely, because it's very important to
know where you're at, and that'sthe trick with debt Most people
assume that they know wherethey're at and they don't.
John Ezell (06:45):
I see it all the time where people will come in,
we'll be visiting, we'll talkabout what their gross income is
per month and I'll just pick anumber and say $10,000.
Okay, and that might be twopeople working, it might be one
person working outside the home,and so on.
But then I will say, okay, whatare your expenses?
(07:06):
And they might say $6,000 amonth.
So then I say, okay, so doesthat mean you're saving $4,000 a
month?
And they're like, no, we're notsaving $4,000 a month.
What they haven't understoodprior to that is that their
lifestyle is chewing up all ofthat incremental bit and by
(07:29):
making a small change or two inthat particular scenario, $4,000
can become three pretty easy,and they're saving $1,000 a
month, much less getting moreserious about it.
Steven Killfoil (07:41):
Absolutely.
I mean, wow, you know.
So, after you know where you'regoing, the next step is
creating a budget.
And let's be real.
People hear the word budget andthink, oh, that's like a diet
for my wallet, or worse, that iscomplicated, don't?
(08:03):
You have to be an accountant.
John Ezell (08:06):
You know it really is, but just like a diet, once
you get used to it, and I likethat metaphor, or is it an
analogy?
But anyway I like the idea,because what happens is, once
you get used to it, you feelbetter.
Now, that's true with the diet,with diets feel better.
Steven Killfoil (08:26):
Now, that's true with the diet, with diets,
yeah, and it's true.
John Ezell (08:28):
With the budget, you feel better and you know the
thing about it is a budget isn'tabout restriction, it's about
direction.
You're telling your money whereto go instead of wondering
where it went.
Yeah, and you know, you don'thave to be an accountant to
create an effective budget.
(08:48):
True.
Steven Killfoil (08:50):
True, so that's a tweet right there.
You know, by the way, if you'refeeling intimidated by where in
the world do I start forcreating a budget?
You know what folks do I startfor creating a budget.
You know what folks Email me atcrossroadspodcast2023, at
(09:11):
gmailcom, and I will personallybe happy to send you a copy of
the Excel workbook we createdwhen we were in Dave Ramsey's
Financial Peace University.
It's that easy and I've got itand I'll be happy to share it
with you.
I'll just blank it out and youput your information in.
It's super simple.
(09:31):
All right, John, this is wherepeople kind of lean in the
strategies.
So how do we exactly starteliminating debt?
John Ezell (09:44):
Well, there's two popular methods.
The terms are similar, but they, of course, are different.
One is a debt snowball.
Now, this is where you listyour debts, from the smallest
debt to the largest debt, andyou begin by paying off the
smallest one as fast as possibleand then, from there, you take
(10:09):
the debt that you justeliminated and the payment
associated with it and you sendit ahead now to the next
smallest debt.
So imagine just like thesnowball rolling downhill.
In this case, you're gainingmomentum, and that is the way a
(10:30):
debt snowball works.
Now there's also somethingcalled a debt avalanche, and a
debt avalanche would be whereyou focus on the debt that has
the highest interest rate firstand you begin to knock that out
Now.
Mathematically, that's asmarter move.
(10:53):
However, debt and paying offdebt is more of an emotional
thought process.
So, even though, logically, themath says debt avalanche for
most people, they need to dothis debt snowball, because what
happens is just like thesnowball is rolling downhill and
(11:16):
getting bigger in terms ofmomentum, the debt is going down
at the same time.
Steven Killfoil (11:23):
Exactly, and that's how we did it at
Financial Peace University, andwe personally knocked out over
$75,000 worth of debt, and wedid it in the course of three
months.
John Ezell (11:36):
Wow, what an accomplishment.
I mean you should be the, youshould be the poster boy and
girl for uh for debt reduction.
Steven Killfoil (11:44):
It really, really works.
And, oh my goodness, each timewe hit a new plateau and when a
neck, the next step, and there'slike 10 stages in in financial
peace university, it was likethe burden just got lifted off
our shoulders and we felt goodyeah we felt really good yes
absolutely, yeah, yep, that,that's definitely, definitely it
(12:08):
.
Yeah, financial peace universityif you really are serious about
getting yourself out of debt,there's churches all around here
that put on that program.
Just look them up.
Just look up Financial PeaceUniversity and look where the
next class is and then enjoy itand get successful and get out
of debt.
(12:28):
That's all I'm going to say onthat.
So back to you, john.
John Ezell (12:34):
Well, I would just say in summary between the debt
snowball and the debt avalanche,you pick.
It doesn't matter which one youpick, but pick something and
pick the one that is going tokeep you the most motivated.
The goal is progress, notperfection.
Now, we've all heard that, butjust to reiterate, it takes just
(12:58):
as long to build a good habitas it does a bad habit.
So why not put your efforts insolving something that will
change the financial trajectoryof your life by getting your
debt under control?
Steven Killfoil (13:12):
Absolutely so.
Basically, snowball is moreemotional and the avalanche is
more logical.
John Ezell (13:20):
That's correct.
Steven Killfoil (13:23):
Well, I remember how we felt, like I
told you, when we startedFinancial Peace University.
I remember how we felt, like Itold you when we started
Financial Peace University, andeach time we managed to hit that
new goal, a new step, it feltgreat.
The best one, however, was whenthe only debt we had left was
our mortgage, and that one willbe knocked out in.
(13:45):
Well, now it's going to beseven or six more years.
Seven more years, yeah, soyou've climbed out of the hole.
So how do you keep from fallingback in?
John Ezell (13:59):
That is such a good question, Steve.
So two big things.
Number one before you'reaccelerating this debt, you've
got to build what is commonlythought of as an emergency fund.
Now, in a previous program Ithink we talked about that a
little bit, but that's step one.
(14:19):
And you've got to stop usingcredit like it's monopoly money.
You know one of the things thathappens if you've ever been to
Las Vegas and I've been twice asa guest of some friends as soon
as you walk in, you exchangethe cash in your pocket for
(14:40):
something that isn't cash.
And that's all by design,because then when you're putting
a bet down in the game, it'snot $100 bills looking at you,
it's these colored chips andjust like a credit card operates
(15:01):
in the same way.
You don't feel the painimmediately.
You're only going to feel itwhen the bill comes, and now
you've already spent that money.
So I don't think that usingcredit is going to make sense
for people who are reallyfocused on getting out of debt.
Start with the emergency fund,and one of the examples for that
(15:24):
would be to have a garage sale.
Yeah, Most people can raiseseveral hundred dollars to a
thousand plus dollars just byselling stuff you don't need or
want or forgot about to otherpeople who find it valuable
that's why they say one man'sjunk is another man's treasure
(15:47):
that's it exactly very very trueis another man's treasure.
Steven Killfoil (15:54):
That's it exactly.
Very, very true.
Yes, and you know, I I lookaround sometimes and I see, uh,
some of my neighbors garages.
They're sitting out in theirdriveway or their cars out in
the street and you look in thegarage, it's just stacked with
boxes and it's like I askedmyself why when, when I moved
into this house, we literallyeliminated, uh, I don't even
(16:17):
know what percentage of it, I'dsay at least 35 percent of the
stuff that we had we got rid ofit because it's like one I'm not
going to drag it with me,because if I haven't used it my
mother used to teach me this Ifyou haven't touched something in
six months to a year, get ridof it.
(16:40):
All it's doing is collectingdust, taking up space, and you
could sell it or donate it, butget rid of it because it's not
doing you any good.
It or donate it, yep, but getrid of it because it's not doing
you any good.
Yeah, and I started applyingthat rule, and now I've
accumulated more stuff and it'sabout time we do that again,
again little house cleaning,spring cleaning?
(17:02):
for a reason?
Yeah, absolutely definitely,definitely.
Okay.
So the emergency fund and nocredit cards.
You know Dave Ramsey is alsoadamantly against the use of
credit cards, and there's a verygood reason for that.
There's only 1% of thepopulation that actually knows
(17:27):
how to use what they call theother people's money right
properly.
My grandfather drilled thisinto my head.
He said if you're going to usethese things, never allow it to
carry a balance beyond 25 days.
If you cannot afford to do that, then don't use the card.
(17:48):
Save your money until you getthe money, then buy it yeah, he
was wise to instill that in youand you know it is.
That's just what the commonsense is, but you know that
that's what it is.
But now, okay, don't use creditcards.
But what about that new playstation that comes out?
Oh, oh no.
What about christmas?
(18:09):
And and all my family?
John Ezell (18:12):
you know this is going to be simpler, more simply
dealt with than you can imagine.
Uh, when does Christmas come?
What's the date?
Steven Killfoil (18:22):
the date December 25th
John Ezell (18:24):
okay and how about for 2027?
Will it be the same date?
Steven Killfoil (18:28):
same date okay.
John Ezell (18:29):
So what I'm saying is we know when Christmas is
coming, right.
Steven Killfoil (18:33):
Absolutely.
John Ezell (18:33):
So we don't need to wait until a month or two before
we could actually beginDecember 26th, saving for
Christmas.
But back to your point.
What if that PlayStation rollsup or you're trying to do this
or that or the other?
Hey, a little delayedgratification is going to be
(18:54):
good for the soul and for yourpocketbook.
So save the money then go getit.
Steven Killfoil (19:00):
Absolutely and.
John Ezell (19:01):
I'll tell you something you find out Once
you've saved the money andyou've done this sequentially in
life for a while.
It's amazing.
Now you have the money to go doany of these sorts of things
you want.
Ironically, you don't do them,though, very often because you
like what's in that bank account, and so it becomes a mind over
(19:25):
matter game.
All you're trying to do isswitch the momentum from having
to have something right now tobeing able to have everything
you want at a later dateabsolutely.
Steven Killfoil (19:38):
And I mean, let's face it.
Um, when my mom and dad wentchristmas shopping, they'd do it
.
They would start first.
Then you'd have those salesright after christmas layaway
programs uh penny sears, uhmontgomery wards, they all had
them.
So my folks would put stuff inon layaway way ahead of time.
(20:02):
By the time christmas rolledaround they were getting it out
of layaway.
It was paid for with cash rightthey never had a credit card.
John Ezell (20:10):
I wish people thought about that when they did
things like you know, thein-store financing, or one year
zero percent interest and again,if you've got the ability to
use other people's moneyproperly, which is a very small
percentage of the population asyou said yeah.
So if you're that one out of100, all right, I think I'd ask
(20:32):
your spouse if you're married,or your significant other or a
good friend.
Steven Killfoil (20:36):
Always ask your spouse.
John Ezell (20:38):
If you are that 1%, because your perspective or your
perception of your ability touse discipline might be
different than what family andfriends think.
Steven Killfoil (20:50):
Absolutely.
John Ezell (20:52):
So what you don't want to do is you don't want to
end up doing a payment planwhere, instead of paying $500
for a console, you pay $800.
And you certainly don't want torun into the debt for the
Christmas presents, as we said.
And you certainly don't want torun into the debt for the
Christmas presents, as we said.
And it was wise for you to justshare that.
(21:13):
You learned from your parentsabout the value of a layaway
plan and that's something thathad been around for a long time.
So I know that increments ofmoney, even if it's a small
(21:35):
amount over short periods oftime, can accumulate, but just
like the flip side of that,small increments of debt being
accumulated can, in a shortperiod of time, overrun you.
So be careful.
Steven Killfoil (21:44):
Yeah, touche, touche, you got that right,
touche, you got that right.
So back to that emergency fund.
How does one, you know, start?
You mentioned the you know thegarage sale, and that's fine.
But what if you don't have agarage sale?
(22:08):
How can a person actually startan emergency fund?
John Ezell (22:15):
Well, another acquaintance of mine.
What he did was he started areyou ready?
As a pizza delivery driver.
This was a part-time job.
This was a grown man.
He had a full-time job but hewas serious about getting out of
debt and because he lived in anapartment, he didn't have a
garage, which means, like mostpeople in Texas, he didn't
(22:38):
accumulate a garage full ofstuff and he did not and was not
able to have a garage sale.
So he took 15 hours a weekoutside of his regular job to do
pizza delivery and he startedaccumulating money that way.
He just decided he was going tosave all of that and in three
(23:01):
years he was done with all ofhis debt just from the tips and
whatever small payment they makeas a pizza delivery guy.
So all he did was get a job.
he traded some of his time forsome money and if you know, most
of us either have more time ormore money, but it's uncommon
(23:25):
that we have as much time as wewant as much money as we want.
Steven Killfoil (23:29):
All that will be it if you work at wgreens,
according to them in a perfectworld, it happens.
Right, right, oh wow, is thereany other thing you have to add
to this?
John Ezell (23:43):
Well, I think the biggest picture, the biggest
point that you can think about,as it relates to this concept
that we talked about today,which is a budget.
Now, a budget, specifically, isbased on exact dollars of money
coming in and money going out.
(24:03):
All right, and that's a greatplace to start, but eventually
you want to live your life insuch a way and I learned this
from our pastor years and yearsand years ago is to live off of
margins.
So maybe, instead of oh, we'regoing to spend $350 a week on
(24:26):
groceries, maybe it needs to bea percentage of what your
revenue is, just like it wouldbe if you bought a house.
The mortgage companies look atwhat percentage of your income
is going to go to service thatdebt.
So if they're looking at it andwhy are they looking at it?
(24:48):
Because they don't want to setyou up for failure they're only
going to give you the amountthat they feel was within that
range.
Maybe it's up to 33%, but Iwould just encourage people get
in a position where 20% or lessof your income is going to your
housing and eventually you canget that down to a real small
(25:10):
percentage, but maybe that's thefirst goal absolutely.
Steven Killfoil (25:15):
Wow.
This has been great advice.
Um, you know, if you want astructured system, check out
dave ramsey's financial peaceuniversity.
A lot of people have turnedtheir financial lives around
with it.
If you want to get startedright away, email us at
crossroadspodcast2023 atgmailcom and I will personally
(25:40):
put you in touch with John rightaway.
How's that sound?
Or, if you want, can they callyou?
John Ezell (25:48):
They can absolutely call.
I'm going to give you a phonenumber and I'll give you an
email address as well, if that'sall right.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Sure.
John Ezell (25:55):
So the phone number would be 214-929-0961.
Now, there's a pretty goodchance I won't actually be able
to pick up the call in thatmoment, often because I'm in a
meeting or another line.
However, if you'd be kindenough to leave a message, or
you could text to that as well,I'll do my best to get back to
(26:18):
you within 24 hours.
So that's the phone number.
The email address would be Johnwith an H, that's J-O-H-N at,
and then I'll give you a fewletters.
That's J-O-H-N at, and thenI'll give you a few letters C
for Charlie, p for Papa, r forRomeo, w for Whiskey, m for Mike
com.
So that's John@cprwm.
C-P-R-W-Mcom.
(26:42):
Perfect.
Steven Killfoil (26:48):
Well, that's all the time we've got for today
, John.
Thanks for joining me andhelping us laugh a little while
tackling a very serious subject.
John Ezell (26:54):
You know what?
It's my pleasure, Steve and I'malways happy to talk money and
keep that pizza budget in check.
Steven Killfoil (27:02):
Definitely, but you still got to have a pie
once in a while.
Yeah Amen, all right, friends,remember, debt doesn't have to
control your life.
Take control, make a plan andstick with it.
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The big fat man with the longwhite beard, he's coming to town
, the fat man with the longwhite beard, he's coming to town
To book an event party or someone-on-one time with the Santa
Steven.
(30:46):
Call 469-230-5956 or emailsteven@ thesantasteven.
com.
That's S-T-E-V-E-N@thesantasteven.
com, and we hope you have a verywonderful holiday season.
Remember, Christmas is just 87days away.
(31:10):
So if you want the Santa Stevento visit your home, call
469-230-5956 or email steven@thesantasteven.
com.
And that's Steven with a V.
Money moves.
(31:32):
For those who want to be in theknow, who's your daddy.
You, thank you.
You also don't forget to go onamazon and check out Stefan
(32:49):
McDermott's book Achieve OptimalBrain Health with Nutrition.
It's a really good book, easyto follow and it's written so
anybody can follow it.
It's real simple, but it isreally good and it'll help your
brain.
If you're especially trying toget out of debt, your brain's
(33:09):
going to need all the help itwants, right?
That's right, okay?
Well, until next week, I'mStephen Kilfoyle, and thanks for
tuning in to Money Moves and Iwill see you at the top.
Cross Roads Podcast welcomes you to Money
Moves for those who want to bein the know.
(00:39):
Good morning Cross Roads.
Welcome back to Money Moveseveryone.
I'm your host, Steven Killfoil,and today we've got a topic
that hits close to home for alot of folks, Debt.
(00:59):
Yep, that four-letter word thatsomehow feels longer than it
should.
But don't worry, becausejoining me is someone who knows
a thing or two about moneysmarts.
My guest today John Ezell.
John, how's it going?
John Ezell (01:18):
Hey, Steve, it's going great, thank you, and I'm
ready to talk about everyone'sfavorite hobby, owing money.
Steven Killfoil (01:29):
Yeah, because nothing says fun like that
monthly statement reminding youthat you're still paying for
that pizza you ordered in 2017.
John Ezell (01:40):
Right, Exactly, and hey, we're here to help some
people today to break that cycle, and I'm looking forward to it.
Steven Killfoil (01:49):
Absolutely Well .
So let's dive in First thingsfirst.
If you're trying to get out ofdebt, you've got to figure out
where your money's going right.
John Ezell (02:00):
That's right.
In fact, most people think theyknow where their money's
actually going, but they don'ttrack it.
And when they do begin to trackit, they're shocked at how it
goes out the window, so to speak, with regard to the speed,
because they're just not payingattention.
(02:20):
For example, to find out thatyou four hundred dollars a month
at the coffee shop okay, well,that's your prerogative, but if
you've got any debt, maybe youought to be focused on a
combination of the two somecoffee and some debt, right?
Steven Killfoil (02:35):
Exactly you were telling me about a partner
business that you were helpingthe they.
They found out they werespending an exorbitant amount on
eating lunch.
John Ezell (02:49):
Yeah, tell them about that so this was a
personal friend of mine.
Uh, he had a successfullandscaping business, he and his
son, and he had some otherworkers too.
But it turned out that oncethey started tracking their
expenses, what they found wasthat for lunch, only for a month
(03:15):
, they would spend betweenChick-fil-A or McDonald's $2,200
for two people.
Steven Killfoil (03:25):
And that's not hard to do if you're not paying
attention and you just land theplastic down and keep on going.
John Ezell (03:31):
And that's what they were doing.
Once they found that out, itshocked them, got their
attention and, at a minimum,they started bringing a sandwich
periodically, you know sothat's a good idea.
They took that savings let'scall it two thousand.
They still had some spendingwhen they were out, but they
(03:52):
tried to get on top of this.
They took that two thousanddollars and started accelerating
all their debts.
Yeah, and it's some.
It's miraculous.
It doesn't have to be $2,000.
It can be whatever the figureworks for you, but anything is
better than making those minimumpayments.
Steven Killfoil (04:10):
Oh yeah, my mother, God rest her soul.
She used to fight and fight andfight with me.
She said I just don't have anymoney, I have no money.
I said, Mom, you have money,you just don't want to stop
smoking.
John Ezell (04:23):
That was a retirement account for her right
Steven Killfoil (04:25):
Right.
And when I finally, I just satdown and I put it in black and
white and put it before her andyou know she, she gave me the
argument well, I've been smokingsince I was 16.
I'm not going to quit.
And then I said well then,don't complain about not having
money,
John Ezell (04:42):
right, yeah,
Steven Killfoil (04:42):
cause I was crazy.
She sent me to the store onetime I was visiting her for a
carton of cigarettes and abottle of gin.
The ticket for a carton ofcigarettes and a bottle of gin,
I mean, this is like a the literbottle
John Ezell (05:02):
sure
Steven Killfoil (05:03):
two hundred dollars
John Ezell (05:05):
it must have been some good gin
Steven Killfoil (05:07):
well, no, it was the cigarettes.
Yeah, I couldn't believe it
John Ezell (05:11):
For the carton yeah
Steven Killfoil (05:12):
Yeah, I said wow, man.
I mean it's 10 bucks a pack.
There's, you know, 20 packs, 10packs in a carton.
John Ezell (05:21):
Yeah, wow, wow, wow, wow.
Steven Killfoil (05:24):
I'm glad I quit smoking, I'd be broke
John Ezell (05:27):
For sure, for sure, between that eating out and
going to the equivalent ofStarbucks so often that they
know your dog's name
Steven Killfoil (05:39):
yeah, no kidding
John Ezell (05:41):
and your favorite drink right,
Steven Killfoil (05:42):
of course, of course
step-by-step standpoint.
So the first step is really totrack every dollar that you're
spending for at least 30 days.
In the old days, when we got areceipt for everything, I would
(06:04):
tell people put it in a plasticbag, put it in a lunch bag,
whatever, and at the end of themonth get them all out, add them
all up.
You know you don't have to doit that way.
We do things online.
Most of us today.
Go ahead and get a notebook andstart writing these things down
.
You could use an app it doesn'thave to be a notebook.
(06:25):
It doesn't really matter, justknow where the money is going,
and this is a judgment-free zone.
That first month You're justwriting it all down.
So you can get your arms aroundit
Absolutely, because it's very important to
know where you're at, and that'sthe trick with debt Most people
assume that they know wherethey're at and they don't.
John Ezell (06:45):
I see it all the time where people will come in,
we'll be visiting, we'll talkabout what their gross income is
per month and I'll just pick anumber and say $10,000.
Okay, and that might be twopeople working, it might be one
person working outside the home,and so on.
But then I will say, okay, whatare your expenses?
(07:06):
And they might say $6,000 amonth.
So then I say, okay, so doesthat mean you're saving $4,000 a
month?
And they're like, no, we're notsaving $4,000 a month.
What they haven't understoodprior to that is that their
lifestyle is chewing up all ofthat incremental bit and by
(07:29):
making a small change or two inthat particular scenario, $4,000
can become three pretty easy,and they're saving $1,000 a
month, much less getting moreserious about it.
Steven Killfoil (07:41):
Absolutely.
I mean, wow, you know.
So, after you know where you'regoing, the next step is
creating a budget.
And let's be real.
People hear the word budget andthink, oh, that's like a diet
for my wallet, or worse, that iscomplicated, don't?
(08:03):
You have to be an accountant.
John Ezell (08:06):
You know it really is, but just like a diet, once
you get used to it, and I likethat metaphor, or is it an
analogy?
But anyway I like the idea,because what happens is, once
you get used to it, you feelbetter.
Now, that's true with the diet,with diets feel better.
Steven Killfoil (08:26):
Now, that's true with the diet, with diets,
yeah, and it's true.
John Ezell (08:28):
With the budget, you feel better and you know the
thing about it is a budget isn'tabout restriction, it's about
direction.
You're telling your money whereto go instead of wondering
where it went.
Yeah, and you know, you don'thave to be an accountant to
create an effective budget.
(08:48):
True.
Steven Killfoil (08:50):
True, so that's a tweet right there.
You know, by the way, if you'refeeling intimidated by where in
the world do I start forcreating a budget?
You know what folks do I startfor creating a budget.
You know what folks Email me atcrossroadspodcast2023, at
(09:11):
gmailcom, and I will personallybe happy to send you a copy of
the Excel workbook we createdwhen we were in Dave Ramsey's
Financial Peace University.
It's that easy and I've got itand I'll be happy to share it
with you.
I'll just blank it out and youput your information in.
It's super simple.
(09:31):
All right, John, this is wherepeople kind of lean in the
strategies.
So how do we exactly starteliminating debt?
John Ezell (09:44):
Well, there's two popular methods.
The terms are similar, but they, of course, are different.
One is a debt snowball.
Now, this is where you listyour debts, from the smallest
debt to the largest debt, andyou begin by paying off the
smallest one as fast as possibleand then, from there, you take
(10:09):
the debt that you justeliminated and the payment
associated with it and you sendit ahead now to the next
smallest debt.
So imagine just like thesnowball rolling downhill.
In this case, you're gainingmomentum, and that is the way a
(10:30):
debt snowball works.
Now there's also somethingcalled a debt avalanche, and a
debt avalanche would be whereyou focus on the debt that has
the highest interest rate firstand you begin to knock that out
Now.
Mathematically, that's asmarter move.
(10:53):
However, debt and paying offdebt is more of an emotional
thought process.
So, even though, logically, themath says debt avalanche for
most people, they need to dothis debt snowball, because what
happens is just like thesnowball is rolling downhill and
(11:16):
getting bigger in terms ofmomentum, the debt is going down
at the same time.
Steven Killfoil (11:23):
Exactly, and that's how we did it at
Financial Peace University, andwe personally knocked out over
$75,000 worth of debt, and wedid it in the course of three
months.
John Ezell (11:36):
Wow, what an accomplishment.
I mean you should be the, youshould be the poster boy and
girl for uh for debt reduction.
Steven Killfoil (11:44):
It really, really works.
And, oh my goodness, each timewe hit a new plateau and when a
neck, the next step, and there'slike 10 stages in in financial
peace university, it was likethe burden just got lifted off
our shoulders and we felt goodyeah we felt really good yes
absolutely, yeah, yep, that,that's definitely, definitely it
(12:08):
.
Yeah, financial peace universityif you really are serious about
getting yourself out of debt,there's churches all around here
that put on that program.
Just look them up.
Just look up Financial PeaceUniversity and look where the
next class is and then enjoy itand get successful and get out
of debt.
(12:28):
That's all I'm going to say onthat.
So back to you, john.
John Ezell (12:34):
Well, I would just say in summary between the debt
snowball and the debt avalanche,you pick.
It doesn't matter which one youpick, but pick something and
pick the one that is going tokeep you the most motivated.
The goal is progress, notperfection.
Now, we've all heard that, butjust to reiterate, it takes just
(12:58):
as long to build a good habitas it does a bad habit.
So why not put your efforts insolving something that will
change the financial trajectoryof your life by getting your
debt under control?
Steven Killfoil (13:12):
Absolutely so.
Basically, snowball is moreemotional and the avalanche is
more logical.
John Ezell (13:20):
That's correct.
Steven Killfoil (13:23):
Well, I remember how we felt, like I
told you, when we startedFinancial Peace University.
I remember how we felt, like Itold you when we started
Financial Peace University, andeach time we managed to hit that
new goal, a new step, it feltgreat.
The best one, however, was whenthe only debt we had left was
our mortgage, and that one willbe knocked out in.
(13:45):
Well, now it's going to beseven or six more years.
Seven more years, yeah, soyou've climbed out of the hole.
So how do you keep from fallingback in?
John Ezell (13:59):
That is such a good question, Steve.
So two big things.
Number one before you'reaccelerating this debt, you've
got to build what is commonlythought of as an emergency fund.
Now, in a previous program Ithink we talked about that a
little bit, but that's step one.
(14:19):
And you've got to stop usingcredit like it's monopoly money.
You know one of the things thathappens if you've ever been to
Las Vegas and I've been twice asa guest of some friends as soon
as you walk in, you exchangethe cash in your pocket for
(14:40):
something that isn't cash.
And that's all by design,because then when you're putting
a bet down in the game, it'snot $100 bills looking at you,
it's these colored chips andjust like a credit card operates
(15:01):
in the same way.
You don't feel the painimmediately.
You're only going to feel itwhen the bill comes, and now
you've already spent that money.
So I don't think that usingcredit is going to make sense
for people who are reallyfocused on getting out of debt.
Start with the emergency fund,and one of the examples for that
(15:24):
would be to have a garage sale.
Yeah, Most people can raiseseveral hundred dollars to a
thousand plus dollars just byselling stuff you don't need or
want or forgot about to otherpeople who find it valuable
that's why they say one man'sjunk is another man's treasure
(15:47):
that's it exactly very very trueis another man's treasure.
Steven Killfoil (15:54):
That's it exactly.
Very, very true.
Yes, and you know, I I lookaround sometimes and I see, uh,
some of my neighbors garages.
They're sitting out in theirdriveway or their cars out in
the street and you look in thegarage, it's just stacked with
boxes and it's like I askedmyself why when, when I moved
into this house, we literallyeliminated, uh, I don't even
(16:17):
know what percentage of it, I'dsay at least 35 percent of the
stuff that we had we got rid ofit because it's like one I'm not
going to drag it with me,because if I haven't used it my
mother used to teach me this Ifyou haven't touched something in
six months to a year, get ridof it.
(16:40):
All it's doing is collectingdust, taking up space, and you
could sell it or donate it, butget rid of it because it's not
doing you any good.
It or donate it, yep, but getrid of it because it's not doing
you any good.
Yeah, and I started applyingthat rule, and now I've
accumulated more stuff and it'sabout time we do that again,
again little house cleaning,spring cleaning?
(17:02):
for a reason?
Yeah, absolutely definitely,definitely.
Okay.
So the emergency fund and nocredit cards.
You know Dave Ramsey is alsoadamantly against the use of
credit cards, and there's a verygood reason for that.
There's only 1% of thepopulation that actually knows
(17:27):
how to use what they call theother people's money right
properly.
My grandfather drilled thisinto my head.
He said if you're going to usethese things, never allow it to
carry a balance beyond 25 days.
If you cannot afford to do that, then don't use the card.
(17:48):
Save your money until you getthe money, then buy it yeah, he
was wise to instill that in youand you know it is.
That's just what the commonsense is, but you know that
that's what it is.
But now, okay, don't use creditcards.
But what about that new playstation that comes out?
Oh, oh no.
What about christmas?
(18:09):
And and all my family?
John Ezell (18:12):
you know this is going to be simpler, more simply
dealt with than you can imagine.
Uh, when does Christmas come?
What's the date?
Steven Killfoil (18:22):
the date December 25th
John Ezell (18:24):
okay and how about for 2027?
Will it be the same date?
Steven Killfoil (18:28):
same date okay.
John Ezell (18:29):
So what I'm saying is we know when Christmas is
coming, right.
Steven Killfoil (18:33):
Absolutely.
John Ezell (18:33):
So we don't need to wait until a month or two before
we could actually beginDecember 26th, saving for
Christmas.
But back to your point.
What if that PlayStation rollsup or you're trying to do this
or that or the other?
Hey, a little delayedgratification is going to be
(18:54):
good for the soul and for yourpocketbook.
So save the money then go getit.
Steven Killfoil (19:00):
Absolutely and.
John Ezell (19:01):
I'll tell you something you find out Once
you've saved the money andyou've done this sequentially in
life for a while.
It's amazing.
Now you have the money to go doany of these sorts of things
you want.
Ironically, you don't do them,though, very often because you
like what's in that bank account, and so it becomes a mind over
(19:25):
matter game.
All you're trying to do isswitch the momentum from having
to have something right now tobeing able to have everything
you want at a later dateabsolutely.
Steven Killfoil (19:38):
And I mean, let's face it.
Um, when my mom and dad wentchristmas shopping, they'd do it
.
They would start first.
Then you'd have those salesright after christmas layaway
programs uh penny sears, uhmontgomery wards, they all had
them.
So my folks would put stuff inon layaway way ahead of time.
(20:02):
By the time christmas rolledaround they were getting it out
of layaway.
It was paid for with cash rightthey never had a credit card.
John Ezell (20:10):
I wish people thought about that when they did
things like you know, thein-store financing, or one year
zero percent interest and again,if you've got the ability to
use other people's moneyproperly, which is a very small
percentage of the population asyou said yeah.
So if you're that one out of100, all right, I think I'd ask
(20:32):
your spouse if you're married,or your significant other or a
good friend.
Steven Killfoil (20:36):
Always ask your spouse.
John Ezell (20:38):
If you are that 1%, because your perspective or your
perception of your ability touse discipline might be
different than what family andfriends think.
Steven Killfoil (20:50):
Absolutely.
John Ezell (20:52):
So what you don't want to do is you don't want to
end up doing a payment planwhere, instead of paying $500
for a console, you pay $800.
And you certainly don't want torun into the debt for the
Christmas presents, as we said.
And you certainly don't want torun into the debt for the
Christmas presents, as we said.
And it was wise for you to justshare that.
(21:13):
You learned from your parentsabout the value of a layaway
plan and that's something thathad been around for a long time.
So I know that increments ofmoney, even if it's a small
(21:35):
amount over short periods oftime, can accumulate, but just
like the flip side of that,small increments of debt being
accumulated can, in a shortperiod of time, overrun you.
So be careful.
Steven Killfoil (21:44):
Yeah, touche, touche, you got that right,
touche, you got that right.
So back to that emergency fund.
How does one, you know, start?
You mentioned the you know thegarage sale, and that's fine.
But what if you don't have agarage sale?
(22:08):
How can a person actually startan emergency fund?
John Ezell (22:15):
Well, another acquaintance of mine.
What he did was he started areyou ready?
As a pizza delivery driver.
This was a part-time job.
This was a grown man.
He had a full-time job but hewas serious about getting out of
debt and because he lived in anapartment, he didn't have a
garage, which means, like mostpeople in Texas, he didn't
(22:38):
accumulate a garage full ofstuff and he did not and was not
able to have a garage sale.
So he took 15 hours a weekoutside of his regular job to do
pizza delivery and he startedaccumulating money that way.
He just decided he was going tosave all of that and in three
(23:01):
years he was done with all ofhis debt just from the tips and
whatever small payment they makeas a pizza delivery guy.
So all he did was get a job.
he traded some of his time forsome money and if you know, most
of us either have more time ormore money, but it's uncommon
(23:25):
that we have as much time as wewant as much money as we want.
Steven Killfoil (23:29):
All that will be it if you work at wgreens,
according to them in a perfectworld, it happens.
Right, right, oh wow, is thereany other thing you have to add
to this?
John Ezell (23:43):
Well, I think the biggest picture, the biggest
point that you can think about,as it relates to this concept
that we talked about today,which is a budget.
Now, a budget, specifically, isbased on exact dollars of money
coming in and money going out.
(24:03):
All right, and that's a greatplace to start, but eventually
you want to live your life insuch a way and I learned this
from our pastor years and yearsand years ago is to live off of
margins.
So maybe, instead of oh, we'regoing to spend $350 a week on
(24:26):
groceries, maybe it needs to bea percentage of what your
revenue is, just like it wouldbe if you bought a house.
The mortgage companies look atwhat percentage of your income
is going to go to service thatdebt.
So if they're looking at it andwhy are they looking at it?
(24:48):
Because they don't want to setyou up for failure they're only
going to give you the amountthat they feel was within that
range.
Maybe it's up to 33%, but Iwould just encourage people get
in a position where 20% or lessof your income is going to your
housing and eventually you canget that down to a real small
(25:10):
percentage, but maybe that's thefirst goal absolutely.
Steven Killfoil (25:15):
Wow.
This has been great advice.
Um, you know, if you want astructured system, check out
dave ramsey's financial peaceuniversity.
A lot of people have turnedtheir financial lives around
with it.
If you want to get startedright away, email us at
crossroadspodcast2023 atgmailcom and I will personally
(25:40):
put you in touch with John rightaway.
How's that sound?
Or, if you want, can they callyou?
John Ezell (25:48):
They can absolutely call.
I'm going to give you a phonenumber and I'll give you an
email address as well, if that'sall right.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Sure.
John Ezell (25:55):
So the phone number would be 214-929-0961.
Now, there's a pretty goodchance I won't actually be able
to pick up the call in thatmoment, often because I'm in a
meeting or another line.
However, if you'd be kindenough to leave a message, or
you could text to that as well,I'll do my best to get back to
(26:18):
you within 24 hours.
So that's the phone number.
The email address would be Johnwith an H, that's J-O-H-N at,
and then I'll give you a fewletters.
That's J-O-H-N at, and thenI'll give you a few letters C
for Charlie, p for Papa, r forRomeo, w for Whiskey, m for Mike
com.
So that's John@cprwm.
C-P-R-W-Mcom.
(26:42):
Perfect.
Steven Killfoil (26:48):
Well, that's all the time we've got for today
, John.
Thanks for joining me andhelping us laugh a little while
tackling a very serious subject.
John Ezell (26:54):
You know what?
It's my pleasure, Steve and I'malways happy to talk money and
keep that pizza budget in check.
Steven Killfoil (27:02):
Definitely, but you still got to have a pie
once in a while.
Yeah Amen, all right, friends,remember, debt doesn't have to
control your life.
Take control, make a plan andstick with it.
And now for a few announcements.
And now for a commercialannouncement from our man from
(27:25):
the north pole, the s SantaSteven.
He's coming soon.
You better watch out.
You better not cry, you betternot pout.
I'm telling you why.
(27:45):
Why Santa Claus is coming totown, gather round.
He's making a list, checking ittwice.
He's going to find out who'snaughty and nice, santa Claus is
coming to town.
This holiday season, bring themagic of Christmas right to your
(28:06):
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Imagine the joy on your child'sface when Santa and Mrs Claus
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Stories, laughters, photos andmemories to last a lifetime.
Ho, ho, ho, merry Christmas Ho.
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Ho ho.
Merry Christmas.
And don't forget, we even bringsweet holidays cheer for
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Hosting a party, big or small.
The Santa Steven brings theholiday sparkle From the family
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We spread joy in every settinggatherings to corporate events.
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(29:37):
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You better watch out, you betternot cry, you better not pout.
I'm telling you why.
Santa Claus is coming to town.
(30:23):
The big fat man with the longwhite beard, he's coming to town
, the fat man with the longwhite beard, he's coming to town
To book an event party or someone-on-one time with the Santa
Steven.
(30:46):
Call 469-230-5956 or emailsteven@ thesantasteven.
com.
That's S-T-E-V-E-N@thesantasteven.
com, and we hope you have a verywonderful holiday season.
Remember, Christmas is just 87days away.
(31:10):
So if you want the Santa Stevento visit your home, call
469-230-5956 or email steven@thesantasteven.
com.
And that's Steven with a V.
Money moves.
(31:32):
For those who want to be in theknow, who's your daddy.
You, thank you.
You also don't forget to go onamazon and check out Stefan
(32:49):
McDermott's book Achieve OptimalBrain Health with Nutrition.
It's a really good book, easyto follow and it's written so
anybody can follow it.
It's real simple, but it isreally good and it'll help your
brain.
If you're especially trying toget out of debt, your brain's
(33:09):
going to need all the help itwants, right?
That's right, okay?
Well, until next week, I'mStephen Kilfoyle, and thanks for
tuning in to Money Moves and Iwill see you at the top.
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