June 27, 2025 • 45 mins
In this episode of Crunchy Stewardship, hosts and cousins Katie Fiola Jones and Chrissy Rombach explore alternatives to traditional health insurance, including Christian Healthcare Ministries (CHM) and Crowd Health. They discuss the financial benefits, differences in coverage, and their personal experiences with these health cost-sharing mechanisms. Katie shares her positive experiences with CHM and her considerations about switching to Crowd Health, while Chrissy weighs the pros and cons of leaving traditional health insurance. The episode provides a detailed comparison of costs, how each model handles expenses, and their alignment with Christian values. They also touch on topics like direct primary care, the implications of IVF, and the importance of making informed, prayerful decisions about health care. The hosts encourage listeners to subscribe, leave reviews, and join their Facebook group for continued discussion and support.
Episode Takeaway:
This Crunchy Stewardship episode highlights a significant shift in healthcare, moving beyond traditional insurance to health cost-sharing ministries and even crowdsourcing platforms like Crowd Health. These alternatives are presented as potentially more affordable and values-aligned options, particularly for those seeking faith-based principles in their healthcare decisions. The discussion emphasizes their focus on major medical events while encouraging members to take a more active and informed role in managing their routine and preventative health costs, fostering a greater sense of personal stewardship over one's well-being.
Chapters:
00:00 Welcome to Crunchy Stewardship
02:06 Introduction to Health Insurance Alternatives
03:38 Comparing Costs: Traditional vs. Non-Traditional Health Coverage
04:45 Christian Healthcare Ministries: An In-Depth Look
08:31 Exploring Crowd Health
24:21 Faith and Healthcare Choices
30:48 Direct Primary Care Explained
43:50 Final Thoughts and Encouragement
Links We Mentioned:
- CHM: https://agapeinvests.com/chm (Katie’s Referral link. Use number (231) 475-0280 when asked who referred you)
- CrowdHealth: https://www.joincrowdhealth.com/
- Medishare: https://www.medishare.com/
- Check out Katie’s Christian Healthcare Ministries Review videos on YouTube. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbGQ6XVmrx6m6RW3vn25WbC12GLHxneDW&si=r1jzqxOGDiS-8Rnj
Connect With Us:
Join Our Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/crunchychristianmama
Follow us on Instagram @crunchystewardship
FREE How to Afford Non-Toxic Living Workbook: https://crunchystewardship.com/how-to-afford-non-toxic-living
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Katie (00:00):
Hey, and welcome to Crunchy Stewardship.
My name is Katie Fiola Jones.
Chrissy (00:04):
And my name is Chrissy Rombach.
We are two cousins who arepassionate about learning and
sharing knowledge to equipothers to steward their
spiritual, mental, emotional,financial, and physical health
in order to honor God in everyaspect of their lives.
Katie (00:20):
In our podcast, we are taking a deep dive into what it
means to steward our lives as.
God originally intended for uswith the resources that he has
given us, we are going to lookat topics such as food,
medicine, finances, mentalhealth, and lots more through a
natural lens and with a biblicalfoundation.
(00:41):
Before we dive in to our topictoday, we just wanna give you a
reminder to subscribe to ourpodcast if you haven't already,
and leave us a five star reviewand let us know what you are
loving about this podcast.
We love hearing from you, and italso helps our podcast to be
seen by people who are lookingto learn more about how to
(01:05):
steward their health and theirfinances in a way that glorifies
and honors God.
And, if you haven't already, youcan sign up for our weekly
newsletter by going to the linkin the show notes and join us
there and you'll get notifiedwhen we have new episodes as
well.
But without further ado, we arediving into this week's topic,
(01:29):
which is actually kind ofextension onto our conversation
from last week.
So if you haven't tuned intothat episode, I'd probably
recommend starting there becausethis conversation is going to
kind of build off of what westarted discussing last week,
which was all about healthcareand kind of how our healthcare
(01:51):
system has fallen apart and howit's not really doing what it
probably was originally intendedto do is to actually keep us
healthy.
And so in today's episode, weare actually going to start
diving into and looking athealth insurance alternatives.
(02:12):
My husband and I have been usingChristian Healthcare Ministries
for the last four plus years andhave really been loving it.
But we're also at the same timeconsidering leaving Christian
Healthcare Ministries forsomething else new that I've
been researching.
So today Chrissy and I are goingto discuss health insurance
compared to a health costsharing ministry compared to
(02:34):
this new form of kind of quoteunquote healthcare, which is
crowdsourcing your healthexpenses So it's slightly
different than a cost sharingministry as well.
And so we're gonna kind ofcompare these things so that way
if you are consideringpotentially switching to a
health cost sharing program or acrowdsourcing program.
(02:57):
Hopefully we can equip you withsome tips and things to consider
if you are looking at that.
But I know Chrissy, you and yourhusband are using traditional
health insurance and you're alsoconsidering switching to
something like ChristianHealthcare Ministries or Crowd
Health, which is this other onethat Wes and I are now
considering.
So, let's just start off by whatjust comes to mind when you are
(03:22):
thinking about switching and arethere any specific questions
that are the most pressing foryou guys?
Chrissy (03:31):
Yeah, I guess the biggest question that I ask when
considering switching away fromtraditional health insurance to
a non-traditional health shareor a crowdsourcing form of
health coverage is mostly likethe cost of it and how the cost
of each of them compares both ona day-to-day basis and.
(03:56):
On a basis of when tragedystrikes or when we do have a
medical incident.
How that cost impacts ourfamily.
So would you be able to likekind of give an outline or a
layout of what Medi-Share versusChristian Healthcare Ministries
(04:17):
versus Crowd Health, how each ofthose day-to-day costs compare
to each other, and then how themedical incident cost compares
with each other.
Katie (04:29):
Yeah.
Yeah, great question.
I think that is definitely thenumber one thing that people
always wanna know is like, whatis it gonna cost me?
And is it more or less, weactually did end up switching to
Christian Healthcare Ministriesbecause it was more affordable
and we got more for what we werepaying on a monthly basis
(04:49):
compared to traditional healthinsurance.
So some people are like, oh,well I only pay like really
small number for my healthinsurance per month, but then
their deductible ends up beinglike$15,000.
So you're like, well, ifsomething really bad happens
that then your$15,000 out ofpocket for whatever that medical
(05:10):
event might have been that costyou so much money.
I actually do want to expressbefore we go further into this
episode that am not like abroker or licensed professional
for insurance in any sense.
So, if you're looking for morespecific advice on your
(05:31):
situation.
The details and the things thatI'm sharing are more my own
experiences and not necessarilyfinancial advice for anybody.
So just, you know, take thatwith a grain of salt as you
listen to this.
It's just my experience and myobservations of these different
things.
But we found that it was moreaffordable to switch to
(05:53):
Christian Healthcare Ministries.
And their plans are actuallypretty decent prices.
You can actually look them allup and we'll have links to each
of these programs for easyaccess for you in the show
notes.
So if anyone wants to kind ofcheck them out, One thing that's
nice about CHM is that itdoesn't matter where you live or
(06:15):
generally how old you are,unless you are 65 plus, then you
actually spend less on a monthlybasis for their senior share
program, is super cool.
It's only$115 and out of all oftheir programs, they have three
other ones, gold, silver, andbronze.
The CHM Senior Share Program hasnot changed prices in like four
(06:37):
years.
So on my YouTube channel, I'vebeen doing reviews of CHM every
year and I update like what arethe changes that are coming with
it?
And consistently I share thedata from all the past years and
consistently the senior shareprogram has not increased their
price, which is kind of cool andnice for those who are in
(06:58):
they're older years of life.
And so that could be reallybeneficial because something
like Crowd Health actually doesnot allow, currently, does not
allow anybody over the age of65, and that is to help keep the
costs a little bit lower for theprogram in general.
Because typically speaking,people older in life, they have
(07:20):
more medical expenses, sokeeping them outside of the
program, like not allowing themin does allow for the rest of
the Crowd Health members to keeptheir costs low.
So the interesting thing aboutMedi-Share, I don't have their
prices off the top of my headright now.
(07:40):
You do have to go through some,like a qualification to get into
Medi-Share.
And what's interesting is theprices are dependent on where
you live as well as your likehealth status and your age and
things like that.
Whereas like CHM as long as youare under 65, it's the same
price.
But then if you're 65 plus, thenit's it's an even lower price.
(08:03):
and so it doesn't matter whereyou live, it doesn't matter on
your health status, which couldbe beneficial or not.
A lot of people do like thatmedi-Share does charge less if
you are healthier and youngerand things like that.
But at least at CHM it's just,it's very easy, very simple to
find out.
Now, with Crowd Health, I did dosome research.
(08:26):
'cause again, for us, this iswhat we're considering
potentially jumping into.
So I've done a pretty deep diveinto their program and I've
literally read their entiremanual.
'Cause I wanna know everythingthat I can about it before
jumping into it.
But they have.
Their breakdown of their priceis actually in two individual
things, and it technically canfluctuate per month, which is
(08:48):
very interesting.
So you have a$55.
Per month per person.
They call it the advocacy fee,and that is just to be a part of
their program.
It does get you free virtualcare.
Both primary and urgent.
They have talk therapy for free.
They, you get a personal careadvocate who helps you find
people that you can work withthat give you affordable prices
(09:10):
and they give you like billnegotiating support and a few
other things.
So it basically gets you accessinto the Crowd Health resources
in general.
So that's$55 per month perperson.
And then you have what they callthe monthly contribution.
So what's interesting about itis that on a monthly basis you
(09:31):
will get a message from theirapp saying.
Hey, Chrissy is going through aknee surgery again and she
Chrissy (09:43):
Hey, we don't need to be making fun like that.
Who's the one who's had threeknee surgeries?
Katie (09:49):
Only had two and then Wes had one ankle thing,
Chrissy (09:52):
oh, sorry about it.
Katie (09:55):
But we, so then you'll get a notification saying,
here's how much.
Yeah.
Every member of Crowd Health isbeing asked to share to Chrissy.
And from my understanding, youbasically hit like, accept, and
then the money goes directly toChrissy's bank account.
Like it'll just show up and, andyou, Chrissy will get
(10:17):
notifications whenever peopleare sending you the money, which
is so interesting.
'cause with, with ChristianHealthcare Ministries, it goes
to CHM and then CHM disperses itto you.
Chrissy (10:27):
So I actually do have one question about that from a
tax perspective.
Does that count as a form ofincome for the person?
Like how is that money viewedfrom a tax perspective going
straight into your bank account?
Katie (10:42):
Wow.
You know, that is a really goodquestion.
That's not something I eventhought about at this point, but
it's definitely something that,now that you bring it up, I
definitely wanna find outbecause you're right, like if
you're getting, and it would be,you know, it is money that
you're using directly for healthexpenses, so it's not like.
(11:04):
You know, hopefully nobody'staking advantage of it and
pocketing it and stuff.
I mean, if you have a healthexpense, you do have to submit
your bills, right?
With CHM too, you have to submitall of your bills in and they
have to approve it.
So I assume that Crowd Healthwould go through a similar
approval process before theyjust start sending you money.
Right.
But yeah, I don't know how thatworks because it could be like
(11:26):
hundreds of thousands of dollarspotentially if you have large
medical bills.
So.
Chrissy (11:31):
Right.
I wonder if they maybe have aparticular bank account for the
medical expenses and say like,okay, you are now a part of
Crowd Health.
You have this Crowd Health Bankaccount that is to be used for
your medical expenses and youcan't really use that money for
(11:52):
other things.
That's just what would makesense for me.
'cause that way you avoid theIRS viewing that money as income
or some other form of somethingor other.
Katie (12:02):
That is a really great point I definitely should look
into that.
I do know that you sending moneyto somebody else is not
considered like tax deductible.
'Cause I know like when you havemedical related expenses, you
can get tax deductions for allof that in general, but the
(12:22):
money that you spend on CrowdHealth or that you send to other
people for your kind of monthlycontributions, those are not tax
deductible.
So I did come upon thatinformation, but as far as like
what happens when you receivethe money, that's a good
question, Chrissy.
Chrissy (12:39):
I have one more question about the Crowd Health.
So they send, once a month, theysend you one person who would
need help paying for something?
Katie (12:48):
From my understanding, it sounds as though you, so as a
family, you will have certainmaximum limits that you could
share to other people, but youwill get like a notification.
Again, this is kind of mylimited experience with it, but
you have an app, the CrowdHealth app, and then you would
(13:10):
get a notification saying, thisis the monthly share amount that
we're asking from you.
And so hypothetically, it soundslike, I mean, even in their
description it will say that,the maximum monthly crowdfunding
amounts listed.
not fixed and can be adjustedbased on the actual spending of
(13:34):
you and the crowd, like as awhole.
So if, if all of us have a tonof medical expenses, you could
be asked to give the maximumamount, which for a family of
three plus is$420 per month.
And then that's again, plus the,the$55 per person per month.
(13:54):
But if you're a single personbetween the ages of zero and 54.
Oh, and I guess they do havedifferent levels, so it's up
until 54, it's$140 per month.
But then once you're in the 55to 64, you know, getting up to
the 65 age, it's$280 per month,so it is more expensive as you
(14:17):
age versus with CHM, once youhit 65, then you have a lower
sharing amount, so at least youwould have that to potentially
look forward to if you switchover to that.
So.
I calculated it that if ourlittle family of three switched
to crowd health, the advocacyfees would be$165 for the three
(14:41):
of us.
So again, that's that$55 perperson, and then the
contribution maximum would be$420 per month, it could be
lower depending on the needs ofeverybody.
So the total out of pocket.
To be a part of Crowd Healthwould be$585.
Chrissy (15:00):
You're saying that's the maximum contribution though,
does that imply that you're notalways asked to give that$465?
Katie (15:12):
Yeah, from my understanding it says that it
could be lower, and I actuallydid watch a YouTube video where
the couple that was talkingabout being a part of Crowd
Health said that there was onemonth where they were asked to
give something like$10 to$20less than their typical maximum
amount because the needs of thecommunity were much lower.
(15:36):
So that's one thing that'sreally unique is that no matter
what the needs are withChristian Healthcare Ministries,
you're always paying the sameamount into it.
It's considered your sharingamount and, they pool it
basically, so that way if themoney isn't all used for
somebody's expenses, then theywould save it for something in
(15:58):
the future.
Whereas like Crowd Health, theybasically only ask for what is
absolutely needed in thatmoment.
And they take in account like ifyou have scheduled things.
So they ask that, you would say,that, you would tell them, oh
yeah, I have a scheduledsurgery, a knee surgery coming
up in two months, and this isthe estimated amount that I was
(16:19):
given from my provider.
And so they can at least likestart to prepare for some of
those things.
But if in general everybody'sdoing really well, nobody's
getting sick nobody has allthese surgeries, nobody's having
babies, right.
Then, whatever.
Then they wouldn't ask for more.
And, and that one couple did sayin their review that they have
(16:40):
experienced that they had a lessamount.
But compared to CHM, wecurrently spend like over$800
because we pay$255 per person.
So that's three of us.
For our kind of just our regulargold level program, but then we
(17:00):
also have the CHM Plus program,which I'm forgetting off the top
of my head how much it is, butit's something like$35 or
something per person, per month,which the CHM plus program
basically bumps your maximumsharing amount to be unlimited
if you're on the Gold program.
So if you're on the regular Goldprogram, you can only share a
(17:23):
maximum of like$250,000, Ithink, per medical incident.
And so the like plus programbasically makes it so that
there's no ceiling for how muchyou can actually share.
And so we've done that becausewe have had experiences that
made so that we needed to itunlimited and we realized that
(17:45):
very quickly we needed to be apart of that.
So Crowd Health does not have aa cap.
There's no maximum amount thatyou can share, which is also
just very interesting.
It's like a lower amount, butthen there's not a maximum and
their quote unquote deductibleis much more affordable it works
(18:09):
very differently in that they'redeductible, quote unquote.
Again, I'm using quotes'causethat's not actually a
deductible, but it's similar tothey have, it's not an annual
thing, it's like a per medicalevent and it is only$500.
I used an example in last week'sepisode of Wes' ankle surgery
was originally$22,000 out ofpocket after all of the self-pay
(18:34):
discounts.
Now, in our case with ChristianHealthcare Ministries, we had
$1,000 that was our personalresponsibility that we needed to
take care of first, and theneverything after the$1000 was
shareable within CHM.
Well, if we were to do that sameevent.
With Crowd health, it would onlybe$500 that we would be
responsible for.
(18:56):
However, the difference there isthat, if he had some other
medical event that same year, hewould be again responsible for
the first$500 of the expensesand then everything else would
be shareable.
So it's, it's slightly differentin that it's not like a annual
maximum thing, but it could belower if you don't incur a lot
of medical events.
(19:16):
So that was kind of interesting.
Chrissy (19:18):
And I recall, I mean I listened to the same podcast
that you did originally thatbrought to light this idea of
crowd health, the company.
And from my understanding fromthat podcast was that each month
you're given an opportunity toshare or an opportunity to give.
You don't always have to givethe maximum.
(19:41):
Is that correct?
Katie (19:42):
Yes, that is actually, and that is one thing that I was
trying to figure out a littlebit more about, because it
really weird to be like, oh, youhave the option right now to say
yes or no.
Because again, you get notifiedsaying Chrissy has a knee
surgery coming up, and we'reasking all of the members right
now to give$100 towards hersurgery and you could say yes or
(20:09):
no.
And it sounds like if you don'trespond within two days, the
automatic default is that yousay yes and you have like a bank
account connected to the app andthen it would automatically do
that for you.
So it is kind of nice because atfirst I was like, that sounds
like a lot of responsibility ifI'm getting notified all the
time about people's medicalevents and needing to figure it
(20:30):
out.
And in most cases, so theyactually, what's really, really
fascinating is there's a senseof accountability within Crowd
Health that each member has twodifferent scores.
They have the generosity score,and then they have a health cost
rating.
So the generosity score reflectsyour crowdfunding activity.
(20:52):
So it basically will say howoften you say yes or no to those
requests, but at the same time,it takes into account your
health cost rating.
So.
There is no in-network withcrowd health, which is very
interesting.
And something that I personallyreally love about Christian
Healthcare Ministries is itdoesn't matter where I go,
(21:12):
whereas in, Medi-Share, they dokind of have a preferred
network.
You can go outside of it, butthey only share like a certain
amount of that money orsomething from my understanding.
So Medisure does want you tokind of work with the providers
that they already kind of deemedgood, so you don't really have
as much choice.
So with crowd Health, they willgive you a score based on the
(21:38):
actual market price, fair marketprice of the procedure that
you're getting.
So again, going back to anexample of like a knee surgery.
If you go to a place and theyquote you 30 grand for this knee
surgery, and maybe that's righton par, like that is the average
for a knee surgery.
And so crowd health will belike, Hey, that's good.
(22:00):
You're, you're within the rangeof a fair market price for this.
And so they'll give you like agreen score for that.
But if you go to some fancyprofessional, which you can do
and it's your choice.
might give you a higher, morelike a negative score based on
the fact that it's moreexpensive to go to that provider
(22:20):
and their out of pocket costmight be 50 grand.
And so it's really interesting'cause it, it kind of helps you
to keep a little bit accountablefor what you're paying for
things and what you're sharing.
So it's really intriguing to me
Chrissy (22:35):
That also makes me think like if you're going to
have an elective surgery such asa knee surgery or something like
that, that is scheduled, it'salmost incentivizing a person to
go to an outpatient surgerycenter rather than to a
hospital.
Because once you go to ahospital, the costs just shoot
(22:55):
up through the roof.
But going to an outpatientsurgery center, even though it
does technically give you lessaccess to extensive resources,
if you end up needing them, ithelps to keep the cost of your
procedure significantly lower,and they really do those lower
risk.
Surgeries in those outpatientsurgery centers such as ACL
(23:17):
surgeries or a meniscus surgeryor like a typical tubes in the
ears kind of things.
Those are the kind of surgeriesthat they do in outpatient
surgery centers, the kind thathave really low risk of becoming
bigger than they actually are.
And so by doing that, you know,it's really a great way to limit
the cost of a procedure.
(23:39):
So that's probably somethingthey also take into account of
like.
Where are you having thissurgery done?
You know?
Katie (23:46):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
It's, it's all reallyinteresting.
And to your point a little bitto that is one of the things
that I was the most curious tolearn about as far as like
switching, potentially switchingto crowd health is I really love
(24:08):
Christian Healthcare Ministriesbecause they are very faith
focused and because of that, Iknow, for the most part that the
majority of people withinChristian Healthcare Ministries,
like all of the members are allChristians and they're all
adhering to the same generallifestyle, covenant of living
with biblical principles.
(24:29):
And so I was very curious toknow a little bit more about
like what Crowd Health wouldshare versus not share.
And so I did learn that theydon't cover services related to
abortions, gender change, IVF,certain like smoking or alcohol
(24:49):
related incidents.
So that was definitely a plusfor me.
I mentioned last week that onething that is kind of nice but
some people don't love aboutChristian Healthcare Ministries
is that if you were to have apregnancy outside of wedlock, so
even if it's like a partner ofyours, but you're not married,
(25:12):
they would not share the cost ofthat within CHM because they
want you to sign this lifestylecovenant that says like sex is
strictly for marriage and ismeant to be for married couples.
And so if you're gettingpregnant outside of marriage,
then they're basically sayinglike, no, that's outside of our
lifestyle covenant.
(25:32):
So we won't share the cost ofthat.
So Crowd Health does not, theyjust basically say as long as
it's not through, well actuallyI guess they don't say if it's
from an like an IVF.
Like if it's an IVF pregnancy ornot, but they basically said
adoption abortion,contraceptives, IVF treatment
(25:55):
and pregnancy conceived beforemembership.
So it doesn't necessarily saypregnancy from IVF because
that's also something that CHMdoes not cover, is if you did
get pregnant with something likeIVF, they actually won't cover
that pregnancy as well, which isalso a game changer for a lot of
people if you are looking topotentially, do that.
Chrissy (26:20):
That's very interesting.
IVF is definitely one of thosethings that I never really
thought about the moralimplications of it until I
started getting into thisconversation and hearing more
about it.
The concerns of IVF and now, Imean, speaking as a person who
is the result of IVF.
(26:42):
That's the only way that myparents could conceive was
through IVF.
In my perspective, you know, itis truly a blessing that it's an
option to get pregnant by meansof IVF.
But at the same time, you know,the Bible very clearly states
that God loves each and everyperson as they are and who they
(27:05):
are as they were created and.
They are a person created inGod's image from the point of
conception.
And so the issue with IVF isthat.
Which actually took me a longtime to identify and why some
people I think could have such ahard time understanding is that
(27:25):
the idea of IVF requires you tothrow away the unused embryos,
which in God's eyes are a livinghuman being made in his image,
who he loves.
And so, yeah, it took me a longtime to understand the moral
implications of IVF, but nowthat I do, I mean.
(27:47):
It's really difficult from myperspective since I am the
result of IVF, and I'm verythankful for it, but I also
understand the moralimplications of it now, and I
understand why these healthsharing organizations don't
support IVF.
Katie (28:04):
Yeah, I would love to dive into the topic of IVF a
little bit more.
I've been so curious to knowmore about your own thoughts,
especially because.
I learned at a, like a muchlater age in life that you and
your sisters were born out of
Chrissy (28:23):
Um,
Katie (28:24):
IVF.
Chrissy (28:26):
Yeah, my sisters and I didn't really know about it
either until I was, I think Iwas 16 and my sisters were 14,
and Aunt Julie dropped the bombat Christmas and mentioned it,
and that's how we all found out.
It's very funny to look back on.
Katie (28:41):
It's like, hello.
Yes, I, I am very curiousbecause it is something that,
you know, we had gone through aninfertility journey ourselves,
and a lot of people did suggestto us to look into IVF and I
didn't really know too muchabout it except for the fact
that I just didn't feel quiteright about it and I never could
(29:04):
place my finger on why, becauseagain, I had never researched
too much into it.
I just, for me originally it waslike I could, I know that going
through IVF, you have to likestick yourself with hormones.
With a needle like daily, anhour, like it just sounds like
so much pain for me.
And I'm like, that soundsterrifying because I already
hate needles a lot.
(29:24):
So there was that, but I just,there was something else, but I
never could quite point to it.
And yeah, I've been learning alittle bit more about it and I
think it would be a goodepisode.
To discuss in the future.
So if you're listening andyou're curious to like hear us,
just discuss it from a biblicalperspective as well as someone
who considered potentially doingIVF and from Chrissy who is the
(29:46):
blessing and result of an IVFpregnancy, like, I think it'd be
really curious to let us know ifyou would be interested in
hearing more about that.
Chrissy do have other questionsabout Christian Healthcare
Ministries or Crowd Health
Chrissy (30:02):
Yeah.
So in the last episode wementioned direct primary care.
First off, what exactly isdirect primary care and how does
that fit into these healthsharing organizations?
Katie (30:15):
Awesome question.
So what's interesting aboutChristian Healthcare Ministries,
Crowd Health and I believe alsoMedi-Share, they do not cover
the expenses for simple primarycare visits.
So either wellness checks, solike if you get strep throat or
you get sick, or your kid youknow, falls and you're like, I
(30:37):
need to go get this arm lookedat, just like to see if they
need stitches or something.
Like those smaller things arenot shared within these
memberships.
They're considered like, again,like you're supposed to, the way
that I view it is like you saveup in your emergency fund or
just like a health thing like ahealth I line item on your
(30:59):
budget.
Like we literally just set asidelike a hundred or so dollars
just for simple visits or thingslike that.
And so they don't pay for them.
But if in the case, like forkids who are getting sick a lot
or getting hurt a lot, and youwant some sort of provider to.
(31:20):
Be available to you a moreregular basis, someone who
really knows your family.
That's where something likeDirect Primary Care can be
really beneficial.
And we actually, I tested outsome direct primary care
originally by myself, just tosee how it was and see if it was
super beneficial for me as anadult, like a healthy, young
(31:41):
adult to use.
And what it, what it basicallycomes down to is you pay a
monthly subscription fee foraccess to your doctor on almost
like an unlimited basis.
So you can go as often or asinfrequently as you'd like, and
you typically get direct access,like text access to your doctor
(32:05):
when you have questions.
Or maybe like, virtual careoption as well.
And so you'd pay a monthlysubscription fee and get access
to certain services and, andthat's that.
And you, you have that.
And me, as an adult who ishealthy and young, I did not
(32:26):
find a lot of benefit in it formyself.
Maybe someone who gets sick moreoften or something like that, it
might be a little bit morebeneficial for you as an adult.
For our son, we actually havedone direct primary care for him
for the last year of his life.
We pay$55 per month and he hasunlimited access to his doctor
(32:47):
and that's it.
So$55 and we can, I text ourdoctor pictures of rashes and of
different things that I won'tget into here'cause it's a
little and we are able to justchat and I bring him in for his
regular checkups But yeah, as weget ready to move, I actually
(33:08):
was just texting Dr.
Brown.
I love Dr.
B.
I was just texting him and, andyou know, updating him like,
yeah, we're gonna be cancelingour membership probably at the
end of this month.
And so I was preparing him.
He already knows that we'removing but we've been
considering what we're going todo moving forward because
there's not, like, we're goingto a rural area in Michigan and
there's not a lot of theseproviders out there in general.
(33:29):
And so if we did want to join adirect primary care, it's gonna
be like 45 minutes to an houraway.
And I'm like, that doesn'treally seem as beneficial.
And so I don't really know yetwhat we're gonna do, but what is
nice with.
Christian Healthcare Ministriesand with Crowd Health, and I
think Medi-Share also has anoption like this, is that they
(33:51):
do offer free virtualtelehealth, like primary care
visits.
So that's for both like sick andwellness visits, also for like
your annual physicals and thingslike that.
But it's not always the same aslike going into your doctor.
So it is nice to have if you'relike, Hey, I just need to jump
on here really quick.
But I haven't used ChristianHealthcare.
(34:12):
I've used it once, I think whenI had a rash on my arm.
But I actually talked to yourmom more than I talked to the
telehealth person.
When I had the, I had like adermatitis thing on my arm.
It was like this weird, almostexclamation point looking thing,
and I was like sending herpictures.
And she helped me more than Ithink the doctor did, but the
doctor gave me a prescriptionfor it.
So.
Chrissy (34:33):
I am sure my mom and I both, my mom for reference for
our listeners is also a nurse.
And so of everyone in thefamily, we are the two nurses
and i'm sure both of us nowshare all of the fun text
message pictures of fun, grossthings that our family members
have.
(34:53):
Anyways, back on topic.
in terms of direct primary care,I am curious, do direct primary
care providers tend to lean moreon the functional medicine side
of things, or do they tend tolean more on the western
medicine side of things?
Katie (35:09):
Yeah, so the provider that we have, I would say is
like kind of in the middle.
I.
They have been very open-mindedabout our medical choices, and
they do promote morechoice-based medical decisions,
(35:31):
like actually like informedconsent, medical decisions,
versus just doing what therecommended pediatric stuff is
for our son.
And, and so I would say going toa typical pediatrician or maybe
even family doctor, they're alittle bit more regimented of
(35:52):
like, you must come in at thesemonth marks and you have to get
these done and, and all thisstuff, and, and it's just a
little bit more protocol based.
Like this is just the protocolfor when we see kids and what we
do for the kids and all thestuff that we take care of,
whereas like our.
direct primary care physicianthat my son sees is like a lot
(36:14):
more laid back where he's like,yeah, you could come in at the
three month mark.
Yeah, you could come in at thesix month mark.
And so I've been kind of like,yeah, is there any specific
times that we should come in?
And he's like, you can come in,get him weighed, you know, you
can come in whenever, you cancome in every week if you
wanted, and get him weighed andchecked out and everything.
And.
We've kind of been just doingevery, every three-ish months
(36:34):
right now, but now that he'sgotten to the one year mark,
it's like, okay, well weprobably don't need to go that
often as much..
And we have asked him questionsabout.
You know, hey, what do you thinkabout getting some chiropractic
care for Malachi for thissituation?
Or have you heard anything aboutthe benefits of acupuncture for
allergies and things like that?
(36:55):
So we've asked him and he hasn'thad like a ton of information.
He has encouraged us to check itout and has not told us not to
do it or anything.
So he's definitely like, I wouldsay, middle of the road and I
would.
I, I guess I can't really speakfor a lot of the others out
there, but I'm sure you couldpotentially find both sides of
(37:16):
the spectrum of someone who is alittle bit more western versus
like alternative naturopath-likeBut I would say what we're more
so considering when we move isfinding someone who is more of
like a naturopath physician andthat.
(37:36):
My friend has a really great oneout here in Colorado and I
really love their relationshipand I'm like, I would love to
find someone like that for us inMichigan.
So I'm definitely gonna besearching pretty hard for
someone who will be kind of likeour family doctor, but who is
definitely more like functional,natural instead of western
(37:57):
medicine.
Chrissy (37:57):
Cool.
Well, okay, so I know youmentioned earlier in this
podcast that you have someYouTube videos out through your
other business that explain alot of these concepts with
Medi-Share and ChristianHealthcare Ministries.
Where exactly can our listenersgo to find those YouTube videos?
Katie (38:17):
Yeah, they're probably some of my most popular videos
on my YouTube channel, and lotsof people have questions about
them, and I would love tocontinue to answer your
questions either on YouTube orin our Facebook group, which is
Crunchy Christian Mamas on aBudget I.
But you can find my YouTubevideos simply by looking up
Katie Fiola Jones.
We'll link to it in the shownotes below as well, so you can
(38:40):
go check those out.
And, and I'll keep you guysupdated too on whether or not we
switch.
I'm really curious to test itout, like the Crowd Health
stuff.
The only thing that kind ofmakes me slightly nervous is
just the fact that they've onlybeen around for like four years.
I, I think they started sometimeduring the pandemic and
Christian Healthcare Ministriesis actually one of the longest
(39:02):
standing health cost sharingministries out there, and they
have always, they have a hundredpercent shared all of the
medical bills that have come inthat have been qualifying.
And even more so, because evenif your bills aren't, like, they
have like this prayer page andyou can get more medical
expenses shared and stuff, whichis really cool.
(39:24):
But CHM has a really good trackrecord and like tech health
companies, like health techcompanies like Crowd Health give
me a little bit of a pausebecause I've tried other things
out there.
Like Forward Health was like atech health company that we
tried out a while back that kindof did a direct primary care
(39:44):
virtual thing, and they're,they're gone now and that they
started right before thepandemic, and then I tried them
after the pandemic and they're,they went under and I'm like, so
stuff like that, it, it makes mea little nervous.
And I think that's giving me thebiggest pause before switching
outside of CHM.
And so but, it's either we'regonna switch to crowd health or
(40:06):
probably stick with CHM for alittle bit longer.
Chrissy (40:10):
Some encouragement on the Crowd Health thing.
If I do recall correctly, Ibelieve even though it's only
been around for four years, theyalready have over 10,000
members, and they do have thatsame 100% track record of
getting all of the medicalexpenses paid for.
And I believe they said thatthey've had a couple million
(40:33):
dollar medical bills thatthey've gotten completely
covered from merely just those10,000 members.
So that's encouraging to me thatthey're growing and I see that
they're picking up traction.
You know, one of the things thatin this podcast that we both
listened to about Crowd Health,they talked about how Crowd
(40:54):
Health really does embody whatit means to live as a Christian
and to provide for those inneed.
You know, in the Book of Acts,it talks about how everybody
gave to everybody and nobody wasamong them who was in need.
And so even though Crowd Healthdoesn't technically identify as
a Christian organization.
They do have Christianownership, and their whole
(41:18):
principle does rest on thebiblical principle of everybody
giving to everybody and nobodyamong the people being in need.
And so I really do love thataspect of crowd health that it
is my choice to give and alsoeverybody is giving and also
nobody is in need.
And so, I think that's also veryencouraging from that aspect.
(41:41):
It is just, the one thing isyou're not required to be a
Christian, to be a part of crowdhealth, which I also think is
really cool, that it could be ameans by which the gospel can go
out among the people and morepeople can learn the truth of
Jesus and how living a liferooted in the gospel and
following the Lord is trulybeneficial and a joy.
(42:01):
And so I think that is also likea spiritual benefit, not just of
Crowd Health, but also ofChristian Healthcare Ministries,
you know?
The joy of being able to providefor one another and take care of
one another through sharinghealthcare costs.
So that's another little Itidbit that I think is pretty
cool about both of those.
Katie (42:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I definitely gonna beconsidering it more heavily here
soon, so stay tuned.
Um, we'll I'll, I'll share anupdate at some point if we do
decide to switch and ourexperience of it.
And I'm sure you will seeYouTube videos of it on my
channel because I love sharingthat kind of stuff with
everybody to give you moreknowledge and make better
(42:45):
decisions for yourself.
But with that, at the end ofthis episode, I think one thing
to remind you as a listener isno matter what these decisions
you are making with yourhealthcare providers and
insurance and all of the crunchystuff that we talk about with
food and medicine and things.
(43:07):
The best course of action isalways to consult God and be
prayerful about your decisionsand really include him in the
discussion of which choices tomake because at the end of the
day, we, we do really want toglorify and honor him with our
(43:28):
health choices and the way thatwe are viewing our bodies as a
temple.
And so just remember that and,and you know, just know that you
can always change course, right?
Like, I'm here saying like, withChristian Healthcare Ministries,
we might be changing coursebecause after a while we, we
found something that might workbetter for our family.
Just keep that, keep that inmind.
(43:50):
Like it's not an end all, beall.
Like don't get too stressedabout it and figure out what
works best for your family and,and just go to God in prayer
with that.
And so with that, we do prayover all of you guys and we,
really hope that theseconversations can be beneficial.
I know hopefully for Chrissyright now, this was beneficial
for you you're kind of learningtoo, and.
(44:12):
And so I, I just hope that thisconversation blesses you and
your discovery of differentoptions out there because
there's, there's more than justwhat the conventional way of
doing You know, there's morethan that.
So consider that and.
Join us over at our Facebookgroup, which is Crunchy
(44:33):
Christian Mamas on a Budget andwe can keep the discussion
going.
If you have other questions orhave other opinions or thoughts
on it, let us know.
And please don't forget tosubscribe, share this episode
with a friend who's alsoconsidering switching, um, and
just wants to learn more andleave us a five star review.
If this episode was helpful, letus know.
(44:55):
On Spotify, you can even likeput comments on that.
We've had some people put somecomments on our episodes and we
really enjoy seeing that andlove hearing from you guys and
um, yeah, just gives us a bit ofencouragement as we continue to
record these for you.
So with that, my name is Katieand I'm signing off.
Chrissy (45:14):
And my name is Chrissy.
Peace and Blessings, everybody.
Hey, and welcome to Crunchy Stewardship.
My name is Katie Fiola Jones.
Chrissy (00:04):
And my name is Chrissy Rombach.
We are two cousins who arepassionate about learning and
sharing knowledge to equipothers to steward their
spiritual, mental, emotional,financial, and physical health
in order to honor God in everyaspect of their lives.
Katie (00:20):
In our podcast, we are taking a deep dive into what it
means to steward our lives as.
God originally intended for uswith the resources that he has
given us, we are going to lookat topics such as food,
medicine, finances, mentalhealth, and lots more through a
natural lens and with a biblicalfoundation.
(00:41):
Before we dive in to our topictoday, we just wanna give you a
reminder to subscribe to ourpodcast if you haven't already,
and leave us a five star reviewand let us know what you are
loving about this podcast.
We love hearing from you, and italso helps our podcast to be
seen by people who are lookingto learn more about how to
(01:05):
steward their health and theirfinances in a way that glorifies
and honors God.
And, if you haven't already, youcan sign up for our weekly
newsletter by going to the linkin the show notes and join us
there and you'll get notifiedwhen we have new episodes as
well.
But without further ado, we arediving into this week's topic,
(01:29):
which is actually kind ofextension onto our conversation
from last week.
So if you haven't tuned intothat episode, I'd probably
recommend starting there becausethis conversation is going to
kind of build off of what westarted discussing last week,
which was all about healthcareand kind of how our healthcare
(01:51):
system has fallen apart and howit's not really doing what it
probably was originally intendedto do is to actually keep us
healthy.
And so in today's episode, weare actually going to start
diving into and looking athealth insurance alternatives.
(02:12):
My husband and I have been usingChristian Healthcare Ministries
for the last four plus years andhave really been loving it.
But we're also at the same timeconsidering leaving Christian
Healthcare Ministries forsomething else new that I've
been researching.
So today Chrissy and I are goingto discuss health insurance
compared to a health costsharing ministry compared to
(02:34):
this new form of kind of quoteunquote healthcare, which is
crowdsourcing your healthexpenses So it's slightly
different than a cost sharingministry as well.
And so we're gonna kind ofcompare these things so that way
if you are consideringpotentially switching to a
health cost sharing program or acrowdsourcing program.
(02:57):
Hopefully we can equip you withsome tips and things to consider
if you are looking at that.
But I know Chrissy, you and yourhusband are using traditional
health insurance and you're alsoconsidering switching to
something like ChristianHealthcare Ministries or Crowd
Health, which is this other onethat Wes and I are now
considering.
So, let's just start off by whatjust comes to mind when you are
(03:22):
thinking about switching and arethere any specific questions
that are the most pressing foryou guys?
Chrissy (03:31):
Yeah, I guess the biggest question that I ask when
considering switching away fromtraditional health insurance to
a non-traditional health shareor a crowdsourcing form of
health coverage is mostly likethe cost of it and how the cost
of each of them compares both ona day-to-day basis and.
(03:56):
On a basis of when tragedystrikes or when we do have a
medical incident.
How that cost impacts ourfamily.
So would you be able to likekind of give an outline or a
layout of what Medi-Share versusChristian Healthcare Ministries
(04:17):
versus Crowd Health, how each ofthose day-to-day costs compare
to each other, and then how themedical incident cost compares
with each other.
Katie (04:29):
Yeah.
Yeah, great question.
I think that is definitely thenumber one thing that people
always wanna know is like, whatis it gonna cost me?
And is it more or less, weactually did end up switching to
Christian Healthcare Ministriesbecause it was more affordable
and we got more for what we werepaying on a monthly basis
(04:49):
compared to traditional healthinsurance.
So some people are like, oh,well I only pay like really
small number for my healthinsurance per month, but then
their deductible ends up beinglike$15,000.
So you're like, well, ifsomething really bad happens
that then your$15,000 out ofpocket for whatever that medical
(05:10):
event might have been that costyou so much money.
I actually do want to expressbefore we go further into this
episode that am not like abroker or licensed professional
for insurance in any sense.
So, if you're looking for morespecific advice on your
(05:31):
situation.
The details and the things thatI'm sharing are more my own
experiences and not necessarilyfinancial advice for anybody.
So just, you know, take thatwith a grain of salt as you
listen to this.
It's just my experience and myobservations of these different
things.
But we found that it was moreaffordable to switch to
(05:53):
Christian Healthcare Ministries.
And their plans are actuallypretty decent prices.
You can actually look them allup and we'll have links to each
of these programs for easyaccess for you in the show
notes.
So if anyone wants to kind ofcheck them out, One thing that's
nice about CHM is that itdoesn't matter where you live or
(06:15):
generally how old you are,unless you are 65 plus, then you
actually spend less on a monthlybasis for their senior share
program, is super cool.
It's only$115 and out of all oftheir programs, they have three
other ones, gold, silver, andbronze.
The CHM Senior Share Program hasnot changed prices in like four
(06:37):
years.
So on my YouTube channel, I'vebeen doing reviews of CHM every
year and I update like what arethe changes that are coming with
it?
And consistently I share thedata from all the past years and
consistently the senior shareprogram has not increased their
price, which is kind of cool andnice for those who are in
(06:58):
they're older years of life.
And so that could be reallybeneficial because something
like Crowd Health actually doesnot allow, currently, does not
allow anybody over the age of65, and that is to help keep the
costs a little bit lower for theprogram in general.
Because typically speaking,people older in life, they have
(07:20):
more medical expenses, sokeeping them outside of the
program, like not allowing themin does allow for the rest of
the Crowd Health members to keeptheir costs low.
So the interesting thing aboutMedi-Share, I don't have their
prices off the top of my headright now.
(07:40):
You do have to go through some,like a qualification to get into
Medi-Share.
And what's interesting is theprices are dependent on where
you live as well as your likehealth status and your age and
things like that.
Whereas like CHM as long as youare under 65, it's the same
price.
But then if you're 65 plus, thenit's it's an even lower price.
(08:03):
and so it doesn't matter whereyou live, it doesn't matter on
your health status, which couldbe beneficial or not.
A lot of people do like thatmedi-Share does charge less if
you are healthier and youngerand things like that.
But at least at CHM it's just,it's very easy, very simple to
find out.
Now, with Crowd Health, I did dosome research.
(08:26):
'cause again, for us, this iswhat we're considering
potentially jumping into.
So I've done a pretty deep diveinto their program and I've
literally read their entiremanual.
'Cause I wanna know everythingthat I can about it before
jumping into it.
But they have.
Their breakdown of their priceis actually in two individual
things, and it technically canfluctuate per month, which is
(08:48):
very interesting.
So you have a$55.
Per month per person.
They call it the advocacy fee,and that is just to be a part of
their program.
It does get you free virtualcare.
Both primary and urgent.
They have talk therapy for free.
They, you get a personal careadvocate who helps you find
people that you can work withthat give you affordable prices
(09:10):
and they give you like billnegotiating support and a few
other things.
So it basically gets you accessinto the Crowd Health resources
in general.
So that's$55 per month perperson.
And then you have what they callthe monthly contribution.
So what's interesting about itis that on a monthly basis you
(09:31):
will get a message from theirapp saying.
Hey, Chrissy is going through aknee surgery again and she
Chrissy (09:43):
Hey, we don't need to be making fun like that.
Who's the one who's had threeknee surgeries?
Katie (09:49):
Only had two and then Wes had one ankle thing,
Chrissy (09:52):
oh, sorry about it.
Katie (09:55):
But we, so then you'll get a notification saying,
here's how much.
Yeah.
Every member of Crowd Health isbeing asked to share to Chrissy.
And from my understanding, youbasically hit like, accept, and
then the money goes directly toChrissy's bank account.
Like it'll just show up and, andyou, Chrissy will get
(10:17):
notifications whenever peopleare sending you the money, which
is so interesting.
'cause with, with ChristianHealthcare Ministries, it goes
to CHM and then CHM disperses itto you.
Chrissy (10:27):
So I actually do have one question about that from a
tax perspective.
Does that count as a form ofincome for the person?
Like how is that money viewedfrom a tax perspective going
straight into your bank account?
Katie (10:42):
Wow.
You know, that is a really goodquestion.
That's not something I eventhought about at this point, but
it's definitely something that,now that you bring it up, I
definitely wanna find outbecause you're right, like if
you're getting, and it would be,you know, it is money that
you're using directly for healthexpenses, so it's not like.
(11:04):
You know, hopefully nobody'staking advantage of it and
pocketing it and stuff.
I mean, if you have a healthexpense, you do have to submit
your bills, right?
With CHM too, you have to submitall of your bills in and they
have to approve it.
So I assume that Crowd Healthwould go through a similar
approval process before theyjust start sending you money.
Right.
But yeah, I don't know how thatworks because it could be like
(11:26):
hundreds of thousands of dollarspotentially if you have large
medical bills.
So.
Chrissy (11:31):
Right.
I wonder if they maybe have aparticular bank account for the
medical expenses and say like,okay, you are now a part of
Crowd Health.
You have this Crowd Health Bankaccount that is to be used for
your medical expenses and youcan't really use that money for
(11:52):
other things.
That's just what would makesense for me.
'cause that way you avoid theIRS viewing that money as income
or some other form of somethingor other.
Katie (12:02):
That is a really great point I definitely should look
into that.
I do know that you sending moneyto somebody else is not
considered like tax deductible.
'Cause I know like when you havemedical related expenses, you
can get tax deductions for allof that in general, but the
(12:22):
money that you spend on CrowdHealth or that you send to other
people for your kind of monthlycontributions, those are not tax
deductible.
So I did come upon thatinformation, but as far as like
what happens when you receivethe money, that's a good
question, Chrissy.
Chrissy (12:39):
I have one more question about the Crowd Health.
So they send, once a month, theysend you one person who would
need help paying for something?
Katie (12:48):
From my understanding, it sounds as though you, so as a
family, you will have certainmaximum limits that you could
share to other people, but youwill get like a notification.
Again, this is kind of mylimited experience with it, but
you have an app, the CrowdHealth app, and then you would
(13:10):
get a notification saying, thisis the monthly share amount that
we're asking from you.
And so hypothetically, it soundslike, I mean, even in their
description it will say that,the maximum monthly crowdfunding
amounts listed.
not fixed and can be adjustedbased on the actual spending of
(13:34):
you and the crowd, like as awhole.
So if, if all of us have a tonof medical expenses, you could
be asked to give the maximumamount, which for a family of
three plus is$420 per month.
And then that's again, plus the,the$55 per person per month.
(13:54):
But if you're a single personbetween the ages of zero and 54.
Oh, and I guess they do havedifferent levels, so it's up
until 54, it's$140 per month.
But then once you're in the 55to 64, you know, getting up to
the 65 age, it's$280 per month,so it is more expensive as you
(14:17):
age versus with CHM, once youhit 65, then you have a lower
sharing amount, so at least youwould have that to potentially
look forward to if you switchover to that.
So.
I calculated it that if ourlittle family of three switched
to crowd health, the advocacyfees would be$165 for the three
(14:41):
of us.
So again, that's that$55 perperson, and then the
contribution maximum would be$420 per month, it could be
lower depending on the needs ofeverybody.
So the total out of pocket.
To be a part of Crowd Healthwould be$585.
Chrissy (15:00):
You're saying that's the maximum contribution though,
does that imply that you're notalways asked to give that$465?
Katie (15:12):
Yeah, from my understanding it says that it
could be lower, and I actuallydid watch a YouTube video where
the couple that was talkingabout being a part of Crowd
Health said that there was onemonth where they were asked to
give something like$10 to$20less than their typical maximum
amount because the needs of thecommunity were much lower.
(15:36):
So that's one thing that'sreally unique is that no matter
what the needs are withChristian Healthcare Ministries,
you're always paying the sameamount into it.
It's considered your sharingamount and, they pool it
basically, so that way if themoney isn't all used for
somebody's expenses, then theywould save it for something in
(15:58):
the future.
Whereas like Crowd Health, theybasically only ask for what is
absolutely needed in thatmoment.
And they take in account like ifyou have scheduled things.
So they ask that, you would say,that, you would tell them, oh
yeah, I have a scheduledsurgery, a knee surgery coming
up in two months, and this isthe estimated amount that I was
(16:19):
given from my provider.
And so they can at least likestart to prepare for some of
those things.
But if in general everybody'sdoing really well, nobody's
getting sick nobody has allthese surgeries, nobody's having
babies, right.
Then, whatever.
Then they wouldn't ask for more.
And, and that one couple did sayin their review that they have
(16:40):
experienced that they had a lessamount.
But compared to CHM, wecurrently spend like over$800
because we pay$255 per person.
So that's three of us.
For our kind of just our regulargold level program, but then we
(17:00):
also have the CHM Plus program,which I'm forgetting off the top
of my head how much it is, butit's something like$35 or
something per person, per month,which the CHM plus program
basically bumps your maximumsharing amount to be unlimited
if you're on the Gold program.
So if you're on the regular Goldprogram, you can only share a
(17:23):
maximum of like$250,000, Ithink, per medical incident.
And so the like plus programbasically makes it so that
there's no ceiling for how muchyou can actually share.
And so we've done that becausewe have had experiences that
made so that we needed to itunlimited and we realized that
(17:45):
very quickly we needed to be apart of that.
So Crowd Health does not have aa cap.
There's no maximum amount thatyou can share, which is also
just very interesting.
It's like a lower amount, butthen there's not a maximum and
their quote unquote deductibleis much more affordable it works
(18:09):
very differently in that they'redeductible, quote unquote.
Again, I'm using quotes'causethat's not actually a
deductible, but it's similar tothey have, it's not an annual
thing, it's like a per medicalevent and it is only$500.
I used an example in last week'sepisode of Wes' ankle surgery
was originally$22,000 out ofpocket after all of the self-pay
(18:34):
discounts.
Now, in our case with ChristianHealthcare Ministries, we had
$1,000 that was our personalresponsibility that we needed to
take care of first, and theneverything after the$1000 was
shareable within CHM.
Well, if we were to do that sameevent.
With Crowd health, it would onlybe$500 that we would be
responsible for.
(18:56):
However, the difference there isthat, if he had some other
medical event that same year, hewould be again responsible for
the first$500 of the expensesand then everything else would
be shareable.
So it's, it's slightly differentin that it's not like a annual
maximum thing, but it could belower if you don't incur a lot
of medical events.
(19:16):
So that was kind of interesting.
Chrissy (19:18):
And I recall, I mean I listened to the same podcast
that you did originally thatbrought to light this idea of
crowd health, the company.
And from my understanding fromthat podcast was that each month
you're given an opportunity toshare or an opportunity to give.
You don't always have to givethe maximum.
(19:41):
Is that correct?
Katie (19:42):
Yes, that is actually, and that is one thing that I was
trying to figure out a littlebit more about, because it
really weird to be like, oh, youhave the option right now to say
yes or no.
Because again, you get notifiedsaying Chrissy has a knee
surgery coming up, and we'reasking all of the members right
now to give$100 towards hersurgery and you could say yes or
(20:09):
no.
And it sounds like if you don'trespond within two days, the
automatic default is that yousay yes and you have like a bank
account connected to the app andthen it would automatically do
that for you.
So it is kind of nice because atfirst I was like, that sounds
like a lot of responsibility ifI'm getting notified all the
time about people's medicalevents and needing to figure it
(20:30):
out.
And in most cases, so theyactually, what's really, really
fascinating is there's a senseof accountability within Crowd
Health that each member has twodifferent scores.
They have the generosity score,and then they have a health cost
rating.
So the generosity score reflectsyour crowdfunding activity.
(20:52):
So it basically will say howoften you say yes or no to those
requests, but at the same time,it takes into account your
health cost rating.
So.
There is no in-network withcrowd health, which is very
interesting.
And something that I personallyreally love about Christian
Healthcare Ministries is itdoesn't matter where I go,
(21:12):
whereas in, Medi-Share, they dokind of have a preferred
network.
You can go outside of it, butthey only share like a certain
amount of that money orsomething from my understanding.
So Medisure does want you tokind of work with the providers
that they already kind of deemedgood, so you don't really have
as much choice.
So with crowd Health, they willgive you a score based on the
(21:38):
actual market price, fair marketprice of the procedure that
you're getting.
So again, going back to anexample of like a knee surgery.
If you go to a place and theyquote you 30 grand for this knee
surgery, and maybe that's righton par, like that is the average
for a knee surgery.
And so crowd health will belike, Hey, that's good.
(22:00):
You're, you're within the rangeof a fair market price for this.
And so they'll give you like agreen score for that.
But if you go to some fancyprofessional, which you can do
and it's your choice.
might give you a higher, morelike a negative score based on
the fact that it's moreexpensive to go to that provider
(22:20):
and their out of pocket costmight be 50 grand.
And so it's really interesting'cause it, it kind of helps you
to keep a little bit accountablefor what you're paying for
things and what you're sharing.
So it's really intriguing to me
Chrissy (22:35):
That also makes me think like if you're going to
have an elective surgery such asa knee surgery or something like
that, that is scheduled, it'salmost incentivizing a person to
go to an outpatient surgerycenter rather than to a
hospital.
Because once you go to ahospital, the costs just shoot
(22:55):
up through the roof.
But going to an outpatientsurgery center, even though it
does technically give you lessaccess to extensive resources,
if you end up needing them, ithelps to keep the cost of your
procedure significantly lower,and they really do those lower
risk.
Surgeries in those outpatientsurgery centers such as ACL
(23:17):
surgeries or a meniscus surgeryor like a typical tubes in the
ears kind of things.
Those are the kind of surgeriesthat they do in outpatient
surgery centers, the kind thathave really low risk of becoming
bigger than they actually are.
And so by doing that, you know,it's really a great way to limit
the cost of a procedure.
(23:39):
So that's probably somethingthey also take into account of
like.
Where are you having thissurgery done?
You know?
Katie (23:46):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
It's, it's all reallyinteresting.
And to your point a little bitto that is one of the things
that I was the most curious tolearn about as far as like
switching, potentially switchingto crowd health is I really love
(24:08):
Christian Healthcare Ministriesbecause they are very faith
focused and because of that, Iknow, for the most part that the
majority of people withinChristian Healthcare Ministries,
like all of the members are allChristians and they're all
adhering to the same generallifestyle, covenant of living
with biblical principles.
(24:29):
And so I was very curious toknow a little bit more about
like what Crowd Health wouldshare versus not share.
And so I did learn that theydon't cover services related to
abortions, gender change, IVF,certain like smoking or alcohol
(24:49):
related incidents.
So that was definitely a plusfor me.
I mentioned last week that onething that is kind of nice but
some people don't love aboutChristian Healthcare Ministries
is that if you were to have apregnancy outside of wedlock, so
even if it's like a partner ofyours, but you're not married,
(25:12):
they would not share the cost ofthat within CHM because they
want you to sign this lifestylecovenant that says like sex is
strictly for marriage and ismeant to be for married couples.
And so if you're gettingpregnant outside of marriage,
then they're basically sayinglike, no, that's outside of our
lifestyle covenant.
(25:32):
So we won't share the cost ofthat.
So Crowd Health does not, theyjust basically say as long as
it's not through, well actuallyI guess they don't say if it's
from an like an IVF.
Like if it's an IVF pregnancy ornot, but they basically said
adoption abortion,contraceptives, IVF treatment
(25:55):
and pregnancy conceived beforemembership.
So it doesn't necessarily saypregnancy from IVF because
that's also something that CHMdoes not cover, is if you did
get pregnant with something likeIVF, they actually won't cover
that pregnancy as well, which isalso a game changer for a lot of
people if you are looking topotentially, do that.
Chrissy (26:20):
That's very interesting.
IVF is definitely one of thosethings that I never really
thought about the moralimplications of it until I
started getting into thisconversation and hearing more
about it.
The concerns of IVF and now, Imean, speaking as a person who
is the result of IVF.
(26:42):
That's the only way that myparents could conceive was
through IVF.
In my perspective, you know, itis truly a blessing that it's an
option to get pregnant by meansof IVF.
But at the same time, you know,the Bible very clearly states
that God loves each and everyperson as they are and who they
(27:05):
are as they were created and.
They are a person created inGod's image from the point of
conception.
And so the issue with IVF isthat.
Which actually took me a longtime to identify and why some
people I think could have such ahard time understanding is that
(27:25):
the idea of IVF requires you tothrow away the unused embryos,
which in God's eyes are a livinghuman being made in his image,
who he loves.
And so, yeah, it took me a longtime to understand the moral
implications of IVF, but nowthat I do, I mean.
(27:47):
It's really difficult from myperspective since I am the
result of IVF, and I'm verythankful for it, but I also
understand the moralimplications of it now, and I
understand why these healthsharing organizations don't
support IVF.
Katie (28:04):
Yeah, I would love to dive into the topic of IVF a
little bit more.
I've been so curious to knowmore about your own thoughts,
especially because.
I learned at a, like a muchlater age in life that you and
your sisters were born out of
Chrissy (28:23):
Um,
Katie (28:24):
IVF.
Chrissy (28:26):
Yeah, my sisters and I didn't really know about it
either until I was, I think Iwas 16 and my sisters were 14,
and Aunt Julie dropped the bombat Christmas and mentioned it,
and that's how we all found out.
It's very funny to look back on.
Katie (28:41):
It's like, hello.
Yes, I, I am very curiousbecause it is something that,
you know, we had gone through aninfertility journey ourselves,
and a lot of people did suggestto us to look into IVF and I
didn't really know too muchabout it except for the fact
that I just didn't feel quiteright about it and I never could
(29:04):
place my finger on why, becauseagain, I had never researched
too much into it.
I just, for me originally it waslike I could, I know that going
through IVF, you have to likestick yourself with hormones.
With a needle like daily, anhour, like it just sounds like
so much pain for me.
And I'm like, that soundsterrifying because I already
hate needles a lot.
(29:24):
So there was that, but I just,there was something else, but I
never could quite point to it.
And yeah, I've been learning alittle bit more about it and I
think it would be a goodepisode.
To discuss in the future.
So if you're listening andyou're curious to like hear us,
just discuss it from a biblicalperspective as well as someone
who considered potentially doingIVF and from Chrissy who is the
(29:46):
blessing and result of an IVFpregnancy, like, I think it'd be
really curious to let us know ifyou would be interested in
hearing more about that.
Chrissy do have other questionsabout Christian Healthcare
Ministries or Crowd Health
Chrissy (30:02):
Yeah.
So in the last episode wementioned direct primary care.
First off, what exactly isdirect primary care and how does
that fit into these healthsharing organizations?
Katie (30:15):
Awesome question.
So what's interesting aboutChristian Healthcare Ministries,
Crowd Health and I believe alsoMedi-Share, they do not cover
the expenses for simple primarycare visits.
So either wellness checks, solike if you get strep throat or
you get sick, or your kid youknow, falls and you're like, I
(30:37):
need to go get this arm lookedat, just like to see if they
need stitches or something.
Like those smaller things arenot shared within these
memberships.
They're considered like, again,like you're supposed to, the way
that I view it is like you saveup in your emergency fund or
just like a health thing like ahealth I line item on your
(30:59):
budget.
Like we literally just set asidelike a hundred or so dollars
just for simple visits or thingslike that.
And so they don't pay for them.
But if in the case, like forkids who are getting sick a lot
or getting hurt a lot, and youwant some sort of provider to.
(31:20):
Be available to you a moreregular basis, someone who
really knows your family.
That's where something likeDirect Primary Care can be
really beneficial.
And we actually, I tested outsome direct primary care
originally by myself, just tosee how it was and see if it was
super beneficial for me as anadult, like a healthy, young
(31:41):
adult to use.
And what it, what it basicallycomes down to is you pay a
monthly subscription fee foraccess to your doctor on almost
like an unlimited basis.
So you can go as often or asinfrequently as you'd like, and
you typically get direct access,like text access to your doctor
(32:05):
when you have questions.
Or maybe like, virtual careoption as well.
And so you'd pay a monthlysubscription fee and get access
to certain services and, andthat's that.
And you, you have that.
And me, as an adult who ishealthy and young, I did not
(32:26):
find a lot of benefit in it formyself.
Maybe someone who gets sick moreoften or something like that, it
might be a little bit morebeneficial for you as an adult.
For our son, we actually havedone direct primary care for him
for the last year of his life.
We pay$55 per month and he hasunlimited access to his doctor
(32:47):
and that's it.
So$55 and we can, I text ourdoctor pictures of rashes and of
different things that I won'tget into here'cause it's a
little and we are able to justchat and I bring him in for his
regular checkups But yeah, as weget ready to move, I actually
(33:08):
was just texting Dr.
Brown.
I love Dr.
B.
I was just texting him and, andyou know, updating him like,
yeah, we're gonna be cancelingour membership probably at the
end of this month.
And so I was preparing him.
He already knows that we'removing but we've been
considering what we're going todo moving forward because
there's not, like, we're goingto a rural area in Michigan and
there's not a lot of theseproviders out there in general.
(33:29):
And so if we did want to join adirect primary care, it's gonna
be like 45 minutes to an houraway.
And I'm like, that doesn'treally seem as beneficial.
And so I don't really know yetwhat we're gonna do, but what is
nice with.
Christian Healthcare Ministriesand with Crowd Health, and I
think Medi-Share also has anoption like this, is that they
(33:51):
do offer free virtualtelehealth, like primary care
visits.
So that's for both like sick andwellness visits, also for like
your annual physicals and thingslike that.
But it's not always the same aslike going into your doctor.
So it is nice to have if you'relike, Hey, I just need to jump
on here really quick.
But I haven't used ChristianHealthcare.
(34:12):
I've used it once, I think whenI had a rash on my arm.
But I actually talked to yourmom more than I talked to the
telehealth person.
When I had the, I had like adermatitis thing on my arm.
It was like this weird, almostexclamation point looking thing,
and I was like sending herpictures.
And she helped me more than Ithink the doctor did, but the
doctor gave me a prescriptionfor it.
So.
Chrissy (34:33):
I am sure my mom and I both, my mom for reference for
our listeners is also a nurse.
And so of everyone in thefamily, we are the two nurses
and i'm sure both of us nowshare all of the fun text
message pictures of fun, grossthings that our family members
have.
(34:53):
Anyways, back on topic.
in terms of direct primary care,I am curious, do direct primary
care providers tend to lean moreon the functional medicine side
of things, or do they tend tolean more on the western
medicine side of things?
Katie (35:09):
Yeah, so the provider that we have, I would say is
like kind of in the middle.
I.
They have been very open-mindedabout our medical choices, and
they do promote morechoice-based medical decisions,
(35:31):
like actually like informedconsent, medical decisions,
versus just doing what therecommended pediatric stuff is
for our son.
And, and so I would say going toa typical pediatrician or maybe
even family doctor, they're alittle bit more regimented of
(35:52):
like, you must come in at thesemonth marks and you have to get
these done and, and all thisstuff, and, and it's just a
little bit more protocol based.
Like this is just the protocolfor when we see kids and what we
do for the kids and all thestuff that we take care of,
whereas like our.
direct primary care physicianthat my son sees is like a lot
(36:14):
more laid back where he's like,yeah, you could come in at the
three month mark.
Yeah, you could come in at thesix month mark.
And so I've been kind of like,yeah, is there any specific
times that we should come in?
And he's like, you can come in,get him weighed, you know, you
can come in whenever, you cancome in every week if you
wanted, and get him weighed andchecked out and everything.
And.
We've kind of been just doingevery, every three-ish months
(36:34):
right now, but now that he'sgotten to the one year mark,
it's like, okay, well weprobably don't need to go that
often as much..
And we have asked him questionsabout.
You know, hey, what do you thinkabout getting some chiropractic
care for Malachi for thissituation?
Or have you heard anything aboutthe benefits of acupuncture for
allergies and things like that?
(36:55):
So we've asked him and he hasn'thad like a ton of information.
He has encouraged us to check itout and has not told us not to
do it or anything.
So he's definitely like, I wouldsay, middle of the road and I
would.
I, I guess I can't really speakfor a lot of the others out
there, but I'm sure you couldpotentially find both sides of
(37:16):
the spectrum of someone who is alittle bit more western versus
like alternative naturopath-likeBut I would say what we're more
so considering when we move isfinding someone who is more of
like a naturopath physician andthat.
(37:36):
My friend has a really great oneout here in Colorado and I
really love their relationshipand I'm like, I would love to
find someone like that for us inMichigan.
So I'm definitely gonna besearching pretty hard for
someone who will be kind of likeour family doctor, but who is
definitely more like functional,natural instead of western
(37:57):
medicine.
Chrissy (37:57):
Cool.
Well, okay, so I know youmentioned earlier in this
podcast that you have someYouTube videos out through your
other business that explain alot of these concepts with
Medi-Share and ChristianHealthcare Ministries.
Where exactly can our listenersgo to find those YouTube videos?
Katie (38:17):
Yeah, they're probably some of my most popular videos
on my YouTube channel, and lotsof people have questions about
them, and I would love tocontinue to answer your
questions either on YouTube orin our Facebook group, which is
Crunchy Christian Mamas on aBudget I.
But you can find my YouTubevideos simply by looking up
Katie Fiola Jones.
We'll link to it in the shownotes below as well, so you can
(38:40):
go check those out.
And, and I'll keep you guysupdated too on whether or not we
switch.
I'm really curious to test itout, like the Crowd Health
stuff.
The only thing that kind ofmakes me slightly nervous is
just the fact that they've onlybeen around for like four years.
I, I think they started sometimeduring the pandemic and
Christian Healthcare Ministriesis actually one of the longest
(39:02):
standing health cost sharingministries out there, and they
have always, they have a hundredpercent shared all of the
medical bills that have come inthat have been qualifying.
And even more so, because evenif your bills aren't, like, they
have like this prayer page andyou can get more medical
expenses shared and stuff, whichis really cool.
(39:24):
But CHM has a really good trackrecord and like tech health
companies, like health techcompanies like Crowd Health give
me a little bit of a pausebecause I've tried other things
out there.
Like Forward Health was like atech health company that we
tried out a while back that kindof did a direct primary care
(39:44):
virtual thing, and they're,they're gone now and that they
started right before thepandemic, and then I tried them
after the pandemic and they're,they went under and I'm like, so
stuff like that, it, it makes mea little nervous.
And I think that's giving me thebiggest pause before switching
outside of CHM.
And so but, it's either we'regonna switch to crowd health or
(40:06):
probably stick with CHM for alittle bit longer.
Chrissy (40:10):
Some encouragement on the Crowd Health thing.
If I do recall correctly, Ibelieve even though it's only
been around for four years, theyalready have over 10,000
members, and they do have thatsame 100% track record of
getting all of the medicalexpenses paid for.
And I believe they said thatthey've had a couple million
(40:33):
dollar medical bills thatthey've gotten completely
covered from merely just those10,000 members.
So that's encouraging to me thatthey're growing and I see that
they're picking up traction.
You know, one of the things thatin this podcast that we both
listened to about Crowd Health,they talked about how Crowd
(40:54):
Health really does embody whatit means to live as a Christian
and to provide for those inneed.
You know, in the Book of Acts,it talks about how everybody
gave to everybody and nobody wasamong them who was in need.
And so even though Crowd Healthdoesn't technically identify as
a Christian organization.
They do have Christianownership, and their whole
(41:18):
principle does rest on thebiblical principle of everybody
giving to everybody and nobodyamong the people being in need.
And so I really do love thataspect of crowd health that it
is my choice to give and alsoeverybody is giving and also
nobody is in need.
And so, I think that's also veryencouraging from that aspect.
(41:41):
It is just, the one thing isyou're not required to be a
Christian, to be a part of crowdhealth, which I also think is
really cool, that it could be ameans by which the gospel can go
out among the people and morepeople can learn the truth of
Jesus and how living a liferooted in the gospel and
following the Lord is trulybeneficial and a joy.
(42:01):
And so I think that is also likea spiritual benefit, not just of
Crowd Health, but also ofChristian Healthcare Ministries,
you know?
The joy of being able to providefor one another and take care of
one another through sharinghealthcare costs.
So that's another little Itidbit that I think is pretty
cool about both of those.
Katie (42:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I definitely gonna beconsidering it more heavily here
soon, so stay tuned.
Um, we'll I'll, I'll share anupdate at some point if we do
decide to switch and ourexperience of it.
And I'm sure you will seeYouTube videos of it on my
channel because I love sharingthat kind of stuff with
everybody to give you moreknowledge and make better
(42:45):
decisions for yourself.
But with that, at the end ofthis episode, I think one thing
to remind you as a listener isno matter what these decisions
you are making with yourhealthcare providers and
insurance and all of the crunchystuff that we talk about with
food and medicine and things.
(43:07):
The best course of action isalways to consult God and be
prayerful about your decisionsand really include him in the
discussion of which choices tomake because at the end of the
day, we, we do really want toglorify and honor him with our
(43:28):
health choices and the way thatwe are viewing our bodies as a
temple.
And so just remember that and,and you know, just know that you
can always change course, right?
Like, I'm here saying like, withChristian Healthcare Ministries,
we might be changing coursebecause after a while we, we
found something that might workbetter for our family.
Just keep that, keep that inmind.
(43:50):
Like it's not an end all, beall.
Like don't get too stressedabout it and figure out what
works best for your family and,and just go to God in prayer
with that.
And so with that, we do prayover all of you guys and we,
really hope that theseconversations can be beneficial.
I know hopefully for Chrissyright now, this was beneficial
for you you're kind of learningtoo, and.
(44:12):
And so I, I just hope that thisconversation blesses you and
your discovery of differentoptions out there because
there's, there's more than justwhat the conventional way of
doing You know, there's morethan that.
So consider that and.
Join us over at our Facebookgroup, which is Crunchy
(44:33):
Christian Mamas on a Budget andwe can keep the discussion
going.
If you have other questions orhave other opinions or thoughts
on it, let us know.
And please don't forget tosubscribe, share this episode
with a friend who's alsoconsidering switching, um, and
just wants to learn more andleave us a five star review.
If this episode was helpful, letus know.
(44:55):
On Spotify, you can even likeput comments on that.
We've had some people put somecomments on our episodes and we
really enjoy seeing that andlove hearing from you guys and
um, yeah, just gives us a bit ofencouragement as we continue to
record these for you.
So with that, my name is Katieand I'm signing off.
Chrissy (45:14):
And my name is Chrissy.
Peace and Blessings, everybody.
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