June 20, 2025 • 43 mins
In this episode of the Crunchy Stewardship podcast, cousins Chrissy Rombach and Katie Jones discuss the high costs of healthcare and methods to manage these expenses effectively. They explore traditional health insurance, explaining premiums, copays, deductibles, and out-of-pocket maximums. They highlight issues within the system, such as the rising costs influenced by both providers and insurance companies. They introduce alternative healthcare strategies, focusing on non-traditional health insurance options like Christian Healthcare Ministries and Crowd Health. The episode covers their personal experiences with these health cost-sharing programs, emphasizing their benefits, such as significant discounts for self-pay patients and no network restrictions. The cousins also touch on the necessity of a mindset shift towards investing in preventative care and managing catastrophic health events. They conclude with a teaser for the next episode, which will delve deeper into the specifics of various health-sharing companies.
Key takeaway:
This Crunchy Stewardship episode reveals that while traditional health insurance in the U.S. is costly and often misaligned with consumer interests, health cost-sharing ministries offer a budget-friendly, faith-centered alternative. These ministries concentrate on covering significant medical events, encouraging individuals to invest in their preventative health through self-pay options and direct provider relationships, rather than relying on a system that often prioritizes profit over patient well-being.
Links:
- CHM: https://agapeinvests.com/chm (Katie’s Referral link. Use number (231) 475-0280 when asked who referred you)
- CrowdHealth: https://www.joincrowdhealth.com/
- Medishare: https://www.medishare.com/
- Check out Katie’s Christian Healthcare Ministries Review videos on YouTube. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbGQ6XVmrx6m6RW3vn25WbC12GLHxneDW&si=r1jzqxOGDiS-8Rnj
Chapters:
00:00 Welcome to Crunchy Stewardship
01:20 Introduction to Today's Topic: Paying for Health
02:29 Understanding Health Insurance Basics
06:12 The Economics of Healthcare Costs
07:31 Exploring Non-Traditional Health Insurance
08:38 Personal Experiences with Health Cost Sharing
15:23 Challenges and Benefits of Non-Traditional Healthcare
42:10 Conclusion
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chrissy (00:00):
Hello and welcome to Crunchy Stewardship My name is
(00:04):
Chrissy Rombach.
Katie (00:05):
And my name is Katie Jones.
We are two cousins who arepassionate about learning and
sharing knowledge to equipothers to steward their
spiritual, mental, emotional,financial, and physical health
to honor God in every aspect oftheir lives.
Chrissy (00:18):
In this podcast, we are taking a deep dive into what it
means to steward our lives asGod originally intended for us
with the resources that God hasgiven us.
We will look at topics likefood, medicine, finances, mental
health, and tons more through anatural lens and with a biblical
foundation.
Katie (00:38):
Before we dive into today's episode, if you have
been following along andenjoying this podcast, make sure
you are one subscribed, and two,make sure to go and leave us a
five star rating wherever youare listening to this.
This really helps other peopleto find our show in the future.
And if you aren't already signedup for our weekly newsletter,
(01:02):
take a moment right now.
Pause and go and do that byclicking the link in the show
notes below.
Uh, we send out tips through ournewsletter as well as keep you
updated on new episodes thatcome out weekly.
So go ahead and do that now.
Chrissy (01:18):
Today's episode, we're kind of shifting gears a little
bit and turning an eye towardshow do we effectively pay for
our health?
Because health is expensive.
Let's be real.
Anytime anybody goes to thehospital or has any sort of
significant, not primary careevent happen to them, it can get
(01:42):
a little bit pricey.
And so we're just gonna facethat reality today of health is
not cheap and it's one of thosethings that we have to prepare
for both financially andspiritually and emotionally and
mentally too.
So we have to prepare for these.
So we're gonna talk a little biton ways that we can prepare for
health crises today.
(02:03):
And also methods that both theUnited States and private
companies have put into place tohelp us pay for these things.
So we're gonna talk about healthinsurance, how health insurance
works exactly And then alsoalternative non-traditional
health insurance type thingsthat you can use to also help
(02:24):
pay for your health costs.
So starting off, we're justgonna give like a blanket
overview of what is healthinsurance, how does it work, and
what does it do for you?
So health insurance originallystarted as a means by which the
United States could help theirpeople pay for health costs.
(02:47):
Just because health is expensivehealth crises are expensive.
So health insurance wasoriginally created to help the
people be able to pay for theirhealthcare.
The way it essentially works iseach month.
A person pays what's called apremium, which is a set amount
of money they pay towards theirhealth insurance company to say,
okay, if I get sick, you aregonna cover me.
(03:10):
And so for my premium, forexample, is$344 each month we
pay two our health insurancecompany in order for them to
protect us when we get sick.
So there are premiums you payevery month.
In addition to that, there arewhat's called copays, which is a
set number that you pay wheneveryou go to a normal health thing.
(03:36):
They have set numbers forprimary care, specialty care,
urgent care, and emergency roomvisits.
So if you go to either of those,you're going to pay a copay, and
then usually the healthinsurance company says that they
will cover the rest of whatevercare was needed during that
visit.
In addition to that, they havewhat's called a deductible.
(03:57):
So a deductible is how much youwill pay towards your healthcare
each year until the insurancecompany starts chipping in
pretty much.
So essentially the idea is youcover the first.
say,$10,000 of care that youreceive in a year, and after you
hit$10,000 worth of care thatyou have received, then the
(04:20):
insurance company will startpaying a percentage of the costs
thereafter.
With that, there is also an outof pocket maximum that a person
will pay each year.
It can be a lot of money that aperson could pay maximum each
year out of pocket.
So say maybe$20,000.
(04:40):
If you think about$20,000 ayear, year over year, over year
for chronic illnesses, that isincredibly expensive.
And health insurance companiesknow this now.
They, only allow you to pay upto your maximum out of pocket
expense.
And then they will cover 100%thereafter.
So they say.
(05:01):
When a person signs up fortraditional health insurance,
they are given an outline of thethings that their health
insurance company will or willnot pay for upfront.
For instance, a health insurancecompany may pay for regular
annual checkups.
Or, treatment at an OB's office,but fertility care, maybe not.
(05:23):
Additionally, they might pay forprimary care visits or regular
testing that you get done everysingle year, preventative care.
But if you wanna get a test forsomething that you think might
be going on, but isn'tnecessary, the health insurance
company likely will not pay forthat test So often what happens
(05:45):
is a doctor will have to get atest or a procedure approved by
the health insurance company inorder to do it, because the
health insurance company is theone that is going to be paying
unless the patient wants to payfor a test or a procedure out of
pocket, which for most patientsis incredibly expensive and very
(06:08):
difficult to do.
Now, one of the biggest problemswith health insurance and
healthcare in general as to whythe cost is going up so much is
because, you know healthcareproviders such as doctors,
hospitals, things like that,they are the provider of the
service, right?
(06:29):
And unfortunately, the peopleactually benefiting from the
service is not the consumer.
The consumer is the insurancecompany.
And so if we think about generaleconomics, you know, if both the
provider of the service and theconsumer of the service wants
the cost of the service to goup, the service is going to go
(06:53):
up.
That is just the nature of it.
And in this situation.
That is the truth.
Both the provider of the serviceand the consumer both want the
cost to go up, because when thathappens the person actually
receiving the services pays moremoney towards both entities, and
so that has become one of thebiggest problems with
(07:14):
healthcare, why it has become soincredibly expensive because
everybody who's involved inwhether or not a procedure is
done wants the cost of theprocedure to go up because they
make more money off of it.
And so this is where we can lookinto non-traditional healthcare
strategies It's, it's veryunwise to not have any form of
(07:40):
health coverage because when aperson goes to the hospital
without any form of healthinsurance or non-traditional
health insurance, then they willwalk outta the hospital facing
an astronomical bill no matterwhat.
But there are alternative healthinsurance strategies that have
(08:01):
been implemented, that areavailable to the public, that
can be used to create a moreaffordable method to acquiring
healthcare.
And Katie, I know you've beenusing a non-traditional
healthcare method for manyyears, and you're actually
thinking about transitioning toa different non-traditional
healthcare method, would you beable to just go through and kind
of explain what exactly anon-traditional health insurance
(08:26):
strategy entails and how it canbe better or worse for you?
Like the pros and cons of it, asyou have experienced through
using it.
Katie (08:36):
Yeah, so we actually switched to a health cost
sharing ministry back in, Ithink it was 2021.
And it was a little bit for afew different Yeah.
So when we turned 26,'causethat's when you typically get
off of your parents' healthinsurance.
Wes and I, when we got married,we were both on our parents
(08:58):
'cause we got married when wewere 24 and eventually a couple
years later, so that would'vebeen, yeah, right before 2020
was that year.
And we just went to the,healthcare marketplace,
whatever, just looked intowhatever health insurance was
out there because, I startedworking as an entrepreneur, so I
(09:19):
didn't have health insurancethrough an employer and then Wes
at the church that we were at,did not have health insurance
through them, and so we justdidn't know what we were doing,
and we got some just traditionalhealth insurance.
We never really ended up usingit very much in general because
we're pretty healthy people andit was costing us a lot.
(09:41):
I actually, I, I don't have thenumbers in front of me.
I probably should pull them up.
I actually did a review back in2021 or 2022.
My first review of our healthcost sharing ministry, and I
talked about like the breakdownof the costs for like how much
we actually have been saving nowthat we switched to a health
(10:01):
cost sharing ministry.
And that was the, the mainreason we switched was it was
just costing us so We, We werebarely using it and it was a
high deductible and we were justkind of like, you know, this is,
I just.
I feel like there's somethingbetter out there.
And I had started hearing aboutdifferent cost sharing
ministries out there and didsome research and I was like,
I'll try it out.
(10:22):
So I actually switched myselffirst.
I jumped over, Wes stayed ontraditional health insurance for
a while kind of tested it out,and I actually went through and
used it all for, um, my meniscusrepair and everything got
covered and it worked reallygreat and I was like, this is
what working out fantastically.
(10:42):
And so we switched Wes over aswell.
And so we actually, we useChristian Healthcare Ministries
and we've been with them nowsince 21.
And we've really been enjoyingthem.
They've been really wonderful.
One of my favorite things isobviously they are faith-based,
but Christian is in their nameand that means that they decide
(11:06):
the types of medical events,like medical incidents and stuff
that get covered need to alignwith of like their biblical
principles that they have setbefore them and for members.
That they need to align to.
And we've actually really,really appreciated that.
There's some things that peopledon't agree with, and I think
(11:27):
that is okay.
They don't cover, like if get,pregnant out of wedlock, they
will not share the medical,expenses for that pregnancy
because you did not adhere to ayou know, biblical lifestyle
that they, you know, you have tosign a covenant basically before
(11:47):
you join Christian HealthcareMinistries saying you're not
going to partake in these kindsof things.
But if you do, then thoseexpenses are not going to be
shared if, if you have them.
And I actually really appreciateAnd because health cost sharing
like ministries and programslike this, because they're not
traditional health insurance,they don't need to cover all the
(12:08):
things that Obamacare now saysthat we have to cover in health
insurance.
And because of that, they'reable to keep the monthly kind of
like premiums.
They're not necessarily calledpremiums.
'cause again, it's not healthinsurance.
In Christian HealthcareMinistries, they the monthly
share amount.
It's like how much you shareinto the ministry.
And so because they don't coverall the things, it helps keep
(12:33):
our monthly share amount, muchlower.
This is different per medicalcost sharing program, because
Medi-Share is one of the morepopular ones out there, they
actually align a little bit moreclosely to how traditional
health insurance works withhaving copays and deductibles
(12:54):
and a network that you have towork with for providers.
Whereas with ChristianHealthcare Ministries, we don't
have copays.
We have something similar to adeductible, but it's much lower
and it has to meet certainrequirements and stuff.
And I on on our plan, it'sactually 1,250, so that's kind
of like our quote unquotedeductible.
(13:15):
And we're on Gold plan, which isthe more expensive one.
And so like they're almost theirhigh deductible plan, I'm using
quotes here$6,000 per year kindof would have to pay per year
for incidents and stuff.
Chrissy (13:33):
You, you're saying that the highest level that they have
has.
A$6,000 deductible
Katie (13:38):
The lowest, so their bronze plan has the highest but
their gold plan, which is whatwe're on, is Like the lowest
deductible, but it's the highestmonthly premium
Chrissy (13:53):
got it.
That's what I was saying.
So high monthly premiums withlow deductibles or low monthly
premiums with high deductibles,
Katie (13:59):
Yes, and that's kind of like the whole point of health
insurance and everything youhave to consider like the
deductible that you are willingto take.
And I'm using the worddeductible just as a general
blanket term because most of usunderstand what a deductible
kind of is.
But again, with these healthcost sharing programs, it's not
exactly a deductible.
(14:20):
It's very similar to, butthere's few quirky differences
that I go into in some of myYouTube videos, if anybody wants
to dive into like ChristianHealthcare Ministry
specifically, I'm trying to keepit as general as possible if
you're looking into otherprograms.
But you know, you kind of thinkabout, what risk am I willing to
take when it comes to my healthexpenses?
(14:42):
So if you do have a largemedical event, do you have an
emergency fund set aside to payfor a higher deductible?
When we, like earlier on, weactually did do that, and we did
do the higher deductible becauseI'm like, okay, we don't have as
much risk and we have this moneyset aside for the deductible if
anything were to happen for ourcar insurance, we actually a, a
(15:05):
pretty high deductible'cause I'mlike, cars are paid off and so
I'm like, if anything happens,we just.
Pay the deductible and we, it'sfine'cause we have the money set
aside to pay for that kind of anemergency.
But, there are a lot ofbenefits.
One of the big things that Ihave come to really, really love
(15:25):
with Christian HealthcareMinistries and some of the other
cost sharing programs out theredo this, is that they do not
have a network that you have towork with.
So you get to choose whichprovider you go to.
So you could pick like the bestperson for whatever your need
is.
So if you have cancer and youwant to see the best doctor to
(15:47):
help you treat that, you can goto that doctor it, you don't
have to worry about them beingin network or not.
And, and that's really somethingthat we've actually appreciated
and in simple ways because whenWes had his ankle surgery, I
sent him to the same orthopedicplace that I went to for my
(16:07):
meniscus a few years beforethat.
And then I didn't have to worryabout whether our physical
therapist was in network.
I just picked the closest onethat I thought was the greatest.
Um, And so that way it was likeonly two minutes from my house,
and I didn't have to worrywhether they were a network
because when you're a part of acost sharing program, you're
actually considered a self-paypatient and, and I know that
(16:29):
some people get really freakedout about that because they're
like, oh, well then I have topay everything outta pocket.
And what if they don't pay?
We've been with CHM and have hada lot of different medical
events at this point, andeverything that qualifies for
sharing has been shared and wehave gotten the reimbursements
back for those expenses.
And we have had no problems withit.
(16:51):
Now we have had a few medicalevents that do not technically
qualify for sharing, but we knewthat ahead of time going into it
and we knew, well, this is justsomething that's gonna be out of
pocket for us.
So it's a little of like amentality switch, We've, we've
really come in America tobelieve that health insurance
just pay for all of our healthexpenses no matter what they
are.
(17:11):
And so because of that, we feelvery entitled when we go to,
like the doctor and we're like,well, this needs to be paid for
and this needs to be paid for,and my labs and this, and blah,
blah, blah.
But, we think of our health inthat sense, I've had friends who
are like, oh, well, I wouldreally like to get this looked
at, but my health insurancegonna get pay for it, so I'm
just not gonna go do that.
(17:32):
And I'm like, what if you couldbe critically ill and you have
no idea just because you justdon't wanna pay for it yourself
out of pocket.
It's like we've lost the senseof going to the doctor or going
to any kind of provider.
It, like, you wanna think of itas like a preventative Like Your
(17:54):
like quality of life could bebetter if you actually get these
things taken care of and itneeds to be an investment into
yourself and your future even togo and take care of these things
versus throwing it off becausemy health insurance isn't gonna
pay for this.
And so you know, we've beengoing like the acupuncturist
lately we go to thechiropractor, we go to all these
(18:15):
different people and CHM doesn'tpay for those things, but I know
that it's an investment into ourhealth, so that way we won't get
sick and won't need to go to thehospital and won't need to have
all these chronic illnesses.
And so it's just a mentalityshift that I think country
really, really needs.
Chrissy (18:34):
I I also wanna touch on that a little bit.
You mentioned in-network versusout-of-network doctors and you
know, I live in North Carolina.
There's A lot very large healthproviding companies here in this
part of the state.
And so it's actually reallyunfortunate because if there is
a specialist at a differententity who is like the number
(18:57):
one specialist in the UnitedStates, I am not able to go to
that specialist because myhealth insurance is provided
through the entity that I workfor.
And so because I work for ahospital, they only cover
doctors in network through thehealth.
Chrissy (3) (19:15):
system I work for so if the number one
neurosurgeon is in a differenthealth system and I need a
neurosurgeon, now, I don't needa neurosurgeon.
But if this ever happened, thatwould be really unfortunate
because I would not have accessto the best neurosurgeon in the
United States, even thoughthey're only a 15 minute drive
away from me.
And so.
(19:36):
That is one of the things that'slike really hard to kind of wrap
your head around of whether ornot a doctor is in network or
out of network and being able togo to whichever provider you
would like.
Another thing that I actuallyfound interesting about my
traditional healthcare is, theydid not cover my chiropractor.
Chrissy (19:57):
And so I decided to start going to a chiropractor
because of back pain.
Due to the nature of my jobbeing a nurse.
You know, it happens and myinsurance, did not cover the
chiropractor, but at the sametime, so I, I am now a patient
paying out of pocket at mychiropractor's office, but the
(20:18):
amount that I'm paying out ofpocket.
For each appointment is lessthan my copay would have been if
I used my health insurance topay for my chiropractor.
And I've also heard it's verysimilar with, getting
ultrasounds during pregnancy.
If you decide you want a 3Dultrasound for your baby, you
(20:40):
pay significantly less money ifyou decide to pay out of pocket
for this procedure, rather thanallowing the health insurance
company to pay for theprocedure, or if the health
insurance company says theywon't cover it, you know?
And so, I've also heard the sameabout the use of an ambulance if
you do not have healthinsurance.
(21:03):
The cost of an ambulance issignificantly cheaper than if
you do have health insurancebecause the health insurance
companies want the cost to behigher because then they get
paid more.
And so it, it's just, it's kindof like a, a backwards thought.
And so Katie, yeah, I thinkyou're very right in that we
(21:24):
need to shift our understandingof how health is paid for in
America because traditionalhealth insurance is not a
catchall for the costs.
Like they say, they cover 80% ofthe costs, but me paying 20% of
$2,000 is still more than mepaying 100% of$100.
(21:45):
You know, and that's the kind ofcost difference that we're
talking about here.
For these situations.
Katie (21:51):
Wes' ankle surgery, so as a self-pay patient, we get all
of the itemized bills from ourproviders and whenever we go to
the provider, we tell them, Hey,we're self-pay.
Do you offer any self-paydiscounts?
And in almost a hundred percentof the cases, they offer
(22:12):
significant reductions in thebills.
So I actually have the numbersin front of me, Wes' bills
before any of the discounts.
This is total for everything.
This is going to the emergencyroom.
'cause he, his situation was,uh, he fell from a roof and so
we went to the ER for that.
And then it was all the, likegetting the MRI and, and going
(22:33):
for all the follow-upappointments and then the actual
surgery that he had and thephysical therapy.
So everything total was$112,000.
A little bit over.
After the discounts, it was$22,000, so that's almost$90,000
in discounts alone.
(22:53):
So we sent all of these bills toChristian Healthcare Ministries
to then be shared amongst theministry.
Out of pocket we only paid athousand dollars, so kind of at
the time our shareable kind ofquote unquote deductible, like
that was our personalresponsibility is what it's
called.
And so it
Chrissy (23:11):
So because Of Your Christian healthcare ministries,
you paid out of pocket 1% ofyour entire healthcare bill.
Also can we just acknowledge thefact that a broken ankle
requiring surgery costs ahundred thousand dollars?
Katie (23:28):
Yeah, it was, I mean, again, it every every single
bill, like like the x-rays andthe follow-ups and physical
therapy.
So it's everything.
And I
Chrissy (23:35):
But still.
Katie (23:36):
But the physical therapy appointment alone, so have, I, I
have spreadsheets of this stuff.
Just a single appointment beforeself-pay discounts was$430.
And then every time Wes wouldpay only$95 of that.
So he'd pay$95,$95 each timehe'd go and we'd submit the
bills and then get a check inthe mail from Christian
(23:57):
Healthcare Ministries for thosethings.
Chrissy (23:59):
I'm gonna be real, I promise you.
Those physical therapists arenot getting paid$400 an hour.
They're not getting paid$95 anhour.
Katie (24:09):
Yeah.
And then, so here I've heard somany instances.
I don't have personal experiencewith this, but after listening
to reviews on YouTube or justhearing other podcast episodes,
I've I've literally heardstories of people who, am.
the ambulance ride actually is areally good example.
I think I heard this on apodcast the other day where
somebody had an ambulance rideand it was going to be like,
(24:31):
they got a bill in the mailafter their insurance paid for
things, they were responsiblefor$800.
And so they fought it andthey're like, Hey, why is this
ambulance ride still$800 andthey're like, oh, I'm so sorry.
We actually realized that wedidn't put your insurance in
here properly.
We'll run it through yourinsurance again and send you the
bill.
And so they're like, great,thank you so much.
Well, a month or so later, theyget another bill in the mail
(24:53):
from the ambulance company, andit's now higher.
Then it the$800 and they'relike, Hey, what's going on?
I thought you were gonna sendthis to the insurance company.
They're like, oh, well we did.
This is now your responsibilityafter insurance is paid and it
costs them more.
And same thing like people go tophysical therapy like that.
Chrissy (25:14):
And then the question goes to show, well, can I choose
to not use my insurance to coverthis?
And the answer is no, becauseyou have now identified that you
have an insurance, plan thatcovers your ambulance ride.
And so therefore you must usethe insurance plan that quote
unquote covers your ambulanceride even though their coverage
(25:35):
still results in you paying morefor the ambulance ride.
Katie (25:38):
It seriously, is so, like, like the system is broken.
We really have gotten to thisplace where again, both the
provider and the insurancecompany benefit from the cost
going up.
And then we as the consumer ofthese health expenses, health,
products, basically, we are theones footing the bill for all of
(26:01):
this, and they all just benefitfrom us staying sick.
And I hate to say it sometimesbecause I have so many friends
similar to you that are, thatare providers, they are nurses,
they're doctors, they'resurgeons, dentists, like.
I have friends who are in theseindustries and I would never say
that Chrissy herself is lookingfor me to stay sick or that any
(26:22):
of my friends are wanting me tostay sick.
I just don't think that theyrealize a lot of times like
what's going on with theinsurance companies and
everything, and when peoplestart to recognize that, they
realize the corrupt system thatthey are sort of a part of.
And we had a friend who, youknow, moved outside of
(26:42):
traditional Um, chiropractic tostart their own chiropractic
care, facility or, company.
And he does not take insurancebecause going through insurance,
he's like, it's gonna cost youas a patient so much more to
come see me, even if yourinsurance is involved.
And for him too, he gets paidless from the insurance
(27:03):
companies.
And so it, it almost feels likenobody's winning and you're
like, what is going on?
So whenever I find providers whojust do not work with insurance
in general, I love them.
Like that's where we sendMalakai for appointments.
We do direct primary care, whichis a whole nother world, we just
pay for a monthly subscriptionwith them and go as often as we
(27:23):
want., And it's so much betterbecause there's no middleman
telling us what we can and can'tdo.
And, it's just so crazy.
Chrissy (27:33):
And that's another thing is that the middleman, the
health insurance companies arethe ones essentially deciding
whether or not a procedure or atreatment is necessary
Katie (27:43):
That is so insane to me
Chrissy (27:45):
Which it's crazy because these are a bunch of
people who are not doctors whodo not work in healthcare,
making the ultimate decision onwhether or not a treatment is
going to be covered or paid forfor this patient.
And so we could be talking aboutlife saving treatments.
That insurance companies merelyjust like will not pay for, and
(28:05):
it's very unfortunate.
In addition, like we have abunch of patients who need to go
to acute rehab or a skillednursing facility after leaving
the hospital because they'remedically cleared.
But yet they had a broken hip,and so they're unsafe to
mobilize at home by themselves.
And so they need to go to somesort of inpatient rehab until
(28:25):
they're able to mobilize safely,you know?
And ultimately it is theinsurance company's decision on
whether or not they're able togo to a good quality rehab
facility or a low quality rehabfacility.
And I just look at it, I'm like,this is so incredibly unfair
that if you have crappyinsurance, that you can't go to
(28:48):
a facility.
Now I do wonder, I have hadpatients who are self-pay, they
are sometimes completely unableto go to nursing facilities or
acute rehab.
So Katie, I don't know if youhave any, experience with that.
Do you know if these healthshare companies cover nursing
facilities or, acute rehab, likeinpatient rehab, sort of things.
Katie (29:12):
My initial reaction is probably not, for some of these
situations.
I don't believe ChristianHealthcare Ministries does.
I'm not sure about somethinglike Medi-Share, Medi-Share
might, don't take me at my wordfor that.
So people have to go do theirown research on that, but so,
we're actually consideringswitching from Christian
(29:33):
Healthcare Ministries for a fewdifferent reasons.
And one of the places that weare looking at switching, I know
that for them specifically, theyactually only allow people up to
the age of 65, and then onceyou're over 65, you have to go
find something else like maybeChristian Healthcare Ministries
or Medi-Share.
And so they probably wouldn'thave something like that
Chrissy (29:54):
So that sounds like another strategy that they use
to keep those health sharingcosts low.
For the vast majority of thepopulation that is below the age
of 65, who doesn't have thechronic, continuous, health
needs.
So like a, a normal middle-aged,healthy person, the vast
majority of their healthcareneeds are probably emergency
(30:17):
based, situations or traumabased situations rather than
chronic illnesses.
And I think that's kind of thefocus of a lot of these health
share things is they focus a lotmore on providing for those
traumatic situations and theemergency situations.
But for chronic illnesses andchronic conditions, they really
(30:39):
do encourage you to get ahead ofyour chronic illnesses to
prevent them from happeningbecause they don't cover them as
well.
Katie (30:49):
I mean, it does bring us back to the point of like if we
start shifting our mindset tohealth insurance or a health
insurance type thing, being moreof a provider in these
catastrophic situations, likein, in an emergent situation.
(31:10):
That's really what it's intendedfor.
We really need to start gettingaway from the idea of like
health insurance covering all ofour little preventative things
because that should be more ofan investment into our health.
Like those kinds of things, likegoing to your doctor on a
regular basis and going andtaking care of some small things
like that should be morepreventative and more of an
(31:32):
investment in yourself, in yourlong-term future.
Whereas like I think healthinsurance is better used for
emergencies and that's what wehave really done.
Or like maybe not evenemergencies.
Let me clarify that (31:44):
larger incidents or larger medical
events like, so pregnancy isanother one that can cost, you
know, out of pocket for us.
Well, I will do a little likedisclaimer.
Ours was a little bit,different.
For a normal pregnancy ifeverything had gone totally
(32:04):
normal for us, it would've beenless than$15,000 for the whole,
pregnancy and birth andeverything.
And then we would've only paidaround like 2 to$3,000 out of
pocket.
'Cause the personalresponsibility is slightly
higher for a maternity eventwith Christian Healthcare
Ministries.
And so it was slightly differentand we can get into that another
day.
(32:25):
But it would've like if we startthinking of health insurance
just for the emergentsituations, and then put our
finances and actually invest inour health, like take whatever
we were gonna be paying forthose premiums and high
deductibles and invest in ourhealth.
That's what we've been reallydoing ourselves, like Wes and I
(32:46):
with our family is, okay, wehave this for the catastrophic
events and any pregnancies andthings like that, but
day-to-day, yeah, we are goingto the acupuncturist.
Yeah, we are going to thechiropractor.
Yeah.
I do go to my annual physicalsand get my labs done and things
like that.
And that's all out of pocket forus.
And that is just an investmentand it's something I put on my
budget for every year and wehave an amount saved for that.
(33:08):
And so it's just a different wayof thinking and we need to start
getting to that versus askingour health insurance what we can
and can't do.
It's just, it's so silly.
Chrissy (33:19):
I, I think in addition to that, you know, Max and I, I
mentioned earlier we weretalking about transitioning from
traditional healthcare tonon-traditional healthcare.
And we're in that same positionthat you guys were in at the
beginning of your marriage of weare both pretty healthy and so
we don't really use the extentof our health insurance.
We pay nearly$350 a month.
(33:42):
We go to primary care and maybeone or two urgent care visits a
year for like the flu.
You know, it, it's not a hugecost that we are incurring of
healthcare at this point in ourlives because we are generally
healthy, and so we havestrategized of like, okay, we're
already spending$350 a month on.
(34:04):
Health insurance, even though wedon't use it nearly at all
because we are healthy people.
And so we've strategized that ifwe decide to switch to a
non-traditional health insuranceor a non-traditional healthcare
company, then we can still savethat$350 a month and use it for
(34:27):
those preventative things likeacupuncture, chiropractic,
annual physicals, things likethat, direct primary care.
And even then with all of thosethings added up.
We would still be able to payfor those out of pocket and save
for the catastrophic events thatwill inevitably happen because
(34:48):
we're human and we live onplanet Earth.
And that's what happens tohumans on planet Earth is things
go wrong.
And so, yeah, just like the$350a month can more than pay for
the expenses that we actuallyincur throughout the year, and
(35:08):
so would give us the opportunityto save for those catastrophic
events and be able to coverourselves by ourselves more
effectively than a healthinsurance company can because at
this point, paying$350 a monthtowards the health insurance
company.
Limits us from being able tosave for catastrophic health
events where we might get a billin the mail that is equal to our
(35:32):
annual deductible of$10,000Where we'd say, well, we have an
emergency fund, but we don'thave a medical fund.
You know?
And so, and at what point do yousay, well, I lost my job because
of this medical expense?
Well, there, boom, emergencyfund, gone in two seconds, you
know?
Katie (35:50):
I've been hearing lot more also, again, like these are
on my podcast and YouTube videosand stuff, that there have been
a lot of instances where healthinsurance companies will like
hit you with these surprisebills and they'll decline your
claims and things like that.
(36:11):
And for things like, one of theexamples that I heard, and I may
have shared it on here before,but it was the guy who brought
his daughter in to, get her earschecked.
She was having chronic earinfections and couldn't sleep,
and it was like really impactingher quality of life and just her
ability to stay healthy ingeneral.
(36:33):
And the doctor had recommendedputting tubes in her ears and
she got the surgery done.
And the hospital said, yeah, wework with your insurance in
general.
That was kind of the phraselike, we work with your
insurance.
And so they, here as thecustomer, were thinking, okay,
great.
You're gonna work with theinsurance.
The insurance is gonna pay forthis.
But after the surgery was done,their kiddo was doing really
(36:57):
well.
Sleeping was, becoming morehealthy, not having all these
chronic ear infections.
And then a few months later theyget a bill in the mail for
thousands of dollars, like Iwould think it was like$30,000
for this surgery.
And it was like, sorry, thisclaim was declined.
And so they battled with theirinsurance month over month for
so long for this insuranceclaim, saying no, the doctor
(37:21):
said it was medically necessary,but they, the insurance company
was like, Nope, this is, thiswas just something that you were
choosing to get done.
It was elective and theinsurance company kept declining
it and they fought for so longand they finally were like, this
is pointless.
Like, we, we are not gonna win.
We can't, and then they werefinding out that so many other
people were dealing with thesesame things.
(37:41):
And this is like a bigwell-known company.
I won't plaster it out there,but it's like this health
insurance company is doing thison several occasions and I'm
like, oh my gosh.
That is really scary and ratherunfortunate that you think that
your insurance company's gonnahelp pay for you.
And then unfortunately, it'sdriving patients to like
(38:01):
bankruptcy because they're like,I thought I would be able to do
this with my insurance and now Ican't and I can't pay for this.
So yeah it's, I've, I actually,I think I have the quote, one
out of five claims submitted tohealth insurance plans are
denied every year.
So that's 20% of health claimsright now, like this is a
(38:23):
current stat that I have and soyou just don't know and that's
the scary thing.
It's like you, your provideritself, your doctor is saying
these are medically necessary,but then your insurance
company's like, nah.
Chrissy (38:34):
I do wonder, are there, do you know of any situation in
which it would be beneficial forsomebody to stick with a
traditional health insurancecompany rather than switching to
a non-traditional healthinsurance company?
Katie (38:51):
Ugh.
Yeah.
Well, what's interesting too,again, with the cost sharing
programs, a lot of them supportpeople who are healthier.
That being said, ChristianHealthcare Ministries does not
decline anybody based on theirhealth.
And so you could be anybody, butI mean, one thing to consider is
that CHM does not pay forongoing prescriptions.
(39:14):
So if you have any kind ofmedical prescription for a
chronic illness that you have,CHM will not pay for that out of
pocket.
Now, I know that for some peoplethat actually could be an
astronomical expense dependingon the medication that you're
taking, and so sticking withtraditional health insurance
(39:36):
might potentially be beneficialin that situation.
But what I would even encouragefor that person is if that's
you, then work to potentiallyreverse whatever it is that you
have, if it's possible.
Like find a naturopath doctorwho can help you actually get
out of that.
Autoimmune disease or something,so that way you don't have to
continue with that medicationlong term.
(39:58):
And then consider switching.
The other program that we'reconsidering looking into and
switching to they don't takepeople who are obese.
And so if you weigh over acertain amount, and it's
different for both male andfemale, they won't allow you
into the program.
And because you know, there's alot more health costs, that are
(40:19):
typically incurred from peoplewho are obese.
And so
Chrissy (40:23):
Katie, what's the name of that one?
Katie (40:24):
The program itself is called, Crowd Health.
So it's similar to likecrowdsourcing, right?
So crowdsourcing for your healthand.
Yeah, we're considering it.
Christian Healthcare Ministries,their cost has been increasing
over the last few years, prettyconsistently.
They've also had morerestrictions, like CHM has added
(40:48):
some more restrictions as far aswhat you can and can't share.
And there's just been a lot morefine print that it's like, okay,
working around a lot of thesethings.
I also really like So, Crowdhealth does not have a cap for
the expenses that you can share.
So you were mentioning that withthe deductibles and stuff, with
(41:10):
a traditional health insurance,you have a deductible that you
pay, but then after you pay thedeductible, the health insurance
will pay a certain percentage ofthose expenses after your
deductible, but only up into acertain amount.
And then after that, you'reresponsible for it.
CHM has something similar,unless you're on their CHM plus
Program, where if you add theCHM Plus program, it makes the
(41:34):
sharing unlimited.
But crowd health, there is nocap.
There's no maximum to how muchyou can share within reason.
I mean, obviously if there'ssomething catastrophic that's
happening and you have millionsof dollars worth of medical
bills, which is a, a very realpossibility because we have
experienced that ourselves, likemillions of dollars.
They would fund that and workwith the whole Crowd Health
(41:59):
community to fund that.
But they also want, they have alot of like interesting scoring
and stuff, but we can get intothat a little bit more later
Chrissy (42:08):
So I really wanna dive into a little bit more on like
the specifics of the differencesbetween Christian Healthcare
Ministries, Medi-share, and thisnew Crowd Health that you're
mentioning, Katie.
But unfortunately we are runningout of time and so we can get
into all three of thosespecifics during this episode,
but.
(42:28):
Stay Tuned.
Next Friday we're gonna betalking about all three of those
and the specifics of them, thecomparison pros, cons, compare
and contrast with all three ofthese different health sharing
companies that are out there andpotentially more if we hear
about more.
If there are other companiesthat you wanna hear about, let
us know, and we might be able tocreate another podcast in the
(42:51):
future about other healthcarecompanies that are available to
the public.
So, yeah, come back next Friday.
These episodes are posted everyFriday, wherever you listen to
your podcast on Spotify, Appleor YouTube.
And make sure if you are lovingour podcast, you leave a five
star review so other people canhear about it more easily and
(43:15):
learn more just as you arelearning.
And we are learning altogether.
So.
Thanks for tuning into ourconversation today.
Be sure to subscribe and alsojoin us over on Facebook.
On our Facebook group, CrunchyChristian Mamas on a Budget
where we share tips and trickson everything health, from food
to cleaning supplies, tohealthcare to chickens.
(43:37):
Love the chickens.
We also have created anInstagram page.
It's called Crunchy Stewardship.
Easy to find.
We are public, so go ahead andfollow us over there and, we can
continue these conversations andget involved in our community.
Until Next time, this is Chrissy
Katie (43:52):
and this is Katie.
Chrissy (43:53):
and thanks for listening to Crunchy
Stewardship.
Hello and welcome to Crunchy Stewardship My name is
(00:04):
Chrissy Rombach.
Katie (00:05):
And my name is Katie Jones.
We are two cousins who arepassionate about learning and
sharing knowledge to equipothers to steward their
spiritual, mental, emotional,financial, and physical health
to honor God in every aspect oftheir lives.
Chrissy (00:18):
In this podcast, we are taking a deep dive into what it
means to steward our lives asGod originally intended for us
with the resources that God hasgiven us.
We will look at topics likefood, medicine, finances, mental
health, and tons more through anatural lens and with a biblical
foundation.
Katie (00:38):
Before we dive into today's episode, if you have
been following along andenjoying this podcast, make sure
you are one subscribed, and two,make sure to go and leave us a
five star rating wherever youare listening to this.
This really helps other peopleto find our show in the future.
And if you aren't already signedup for our weekly newsletter,
(01:02):
take a moment right now.
Pause and go and do that byclicking the link in the show
notes below.
Uh, we send out tips through ournewsletter as well as keep you
updated on new episodes thatcome out weekly.
So go ahead and do that now.
Chrissy (01:18):
Today's episode, we're kind of shifting gears a little
bit and turning an eye towardshow do we effectively pay for
our health?
Because health is expensive.
Let's be real.
Anytime anybody goes to thehospital or has any sort of
significant, not primary careevent happen to them, it can get
(01:42):
a little bit pricey.
And so we're just gonna facethat reality today of health is
not cheap and it's one of thosethings that we have to prepare
for both financially andspiritually and emotionally and
mentally too.
So we have to prepare for these.
So we're gonna talk a little biton ways that we can prepare for
health crises today.
(02:03):
And also methods that both theUnited States and private
companies have put into place tohelp us pay for these things.
So we're gonna talk about healthinsurance, how health insurance
works exactly And then alsoalternative non-traditional
health insurance type thingsthat you can use to also help
(02:24):
pay for your health costs.
So starting off, we're justgonna give like a blanket
overview of what is healthinsurance, how does it work, and
what does it do for you?
So health insurance originallystarted as a means by which the
United States could help theirpeople pay for health costs.
(02:47):
Just because health is expensivehealth crises are expensive.
So health insurance wasoriginally created to help the
people be able to pay for theirhealthcare.
The way it essentially works iseach month.
A person pays what's called apremium, which is a set amount
of money they pay towards theirhealth insurance company to say,
okay, if I get sick, you aregonna cover me.
(03:10):
And so for my premium, forexample, is$344 each month we
pay two our health insurancecompany in order for them to
protect us when we get sick.
So there are premiums you payevery month.
In addition to that, there arewhat's called copays, which is a
set number that you pay wheneveryou go to a normal health thing.
(03:36):
They have set numbers forprimary care, specialty care,
urgent care, and emergency roomvisits.
So if you go to either of those,you're going to pay a copay, and
then usually the healthinsurance company says that they
will cover the rest of whatevercare was needed during that
visit.
In addition to that, they havewhat's called a deductible.
(03:57):
So a deductible is how much youwill pay towards your healthcare
each year until the insurancecompany starts chipping in
pretty much.
So essentially the idea is youcover the first.
say,$10,000 of care that youreceive in a year, and after you
hit$10,000 worth of care thatyou have received, then the
(04:20):
insurance company will startpaying a percentage of the costs
thereafter.
With that, there is also an outof pocket maximum that a person
will pay each year.
It can be a lot of money that aperson could pay maximum each
year out of pocket.
So say maybe$20,000.
(04:40):
If you think about$20,000 ayear, year over year, over year
for chronic illnesses, that isincredibly expensive.
And health insurance companiesknow this now.
They, only allow you to pay upto your maximum out of pocket
expense.
And then they will cover 100%thereafter.
So they say.
(05:01):
When a person signs up fortraditional health insurance,
they are given an outline of thethings that their health
insurance company will or willnot pay for upfront.
For instance, a health insurancecompany may pay for regular
annual checkups.
Or, treatment at an OB's office,but fertility care, maybe not.
(05:23):
Additionally, they might pay forprimary care visits or regular
testing that you get done everysingle year, preventative care.
But if you wanna get a test forsomething that you think might
be going on, but isn'tnecessary, the health insurance
company likely will not pay forthat test So often what happens
(05:45):
is a doctor will have to get atest or a procedure approved by
the health insurance company inorder to do it, because the
health insurance company is theone that is going to be paying
unless the patient wants to payfor a test or a procedure out of
pocket, which for most patientsis incredibly expensive and very
(06:08):
difficult to do.
Now, one of the biggest problemswith health insurance and
healthcare in general as to whythe cost is going up so much is
because, you know healthcareproviders such as doctors,
hospitals, things like that,they are the provider of the
service, right?
(06:29):
And unfortunately, the peopleactually benefiting from the
service is not the consumer.
The consumer is the insurancecompany.
And so if we think about generaleconomics, you know, if both the
provider of the service and theconsumer of the service wants
the cost of the service to goup, the service is going to go
(06:53):
up.
That is just the nature of it.
And in this situation.
That is the truth.
Both the provider of the serviceand the consumer both want the
cost to go up, because when thathappens the person actually
receiving the services pays moremoney towards both entities, and
so that has become one of thebiggest problems with
(07:14):
healthcare, why it has become soincredibly expensive because
everybody who's involved inwhether or not a procedure is
done wants the cost of theprocedure to go up because they
make more money off of it.
And so this is where we can lookinto non-traditional healthcare
strategies It's, it's veryunwise to not have any form of
(07:40):
health coverage because when aperson goes to the hospital
without any form of healthinsurance or non-traditional
health insurance, then they willwalk outta the hospital facing
an astronomical bill no matterwhat.
But there are alternative healthinsurance strategies that have
(08:01):
been implemented, that areavailable to the public, that
can be used to create a moreaffordable method to acquiring
healthcare.
And Katie, I know you've beenusing a non-traditional
healthcare method for manyyears, and you're actually
thinking about transitioning toa different non-traditional
healthcare method, would you beable to just go through and kind
of explain what exactly anon-traditional health insurance
(08:26):
strategy entails and how it canbe better or worse for you?
Like the pros and cons of it, asyou have experienced through
using it.
Katie (08:36):
Yeah, so we actually switched to a health cost
sharing ministry back in, Ithink it was 2021.
And it was a little bit for afew different Yeah.
So when we turned 26,'causethat's when you typically get
off of your parents' healthinsurance.
Wes and I, when we got married,we were both on our parents
(08:58):
'cause we got married when wewere 24 and eventually a couple
years later, so that would'vebeen, yeah, right before 2020
was that year.
And we just went to the,healthcare marketplace,
whatever, just looked intowhatever health insurance was
out there because, I startedworking as an entrepreneur, so I
(09:19):
didn't have health insurancethrough an employer and then Wes
at the church that we were at,did not have health insurance
through them, and so we justdidn't know what we were doing,
and we got some just traditionalhealth insurance.
We never really ended up usingit very much in general because
we're pretty healthy people andit was costing us a lot.
(09:41):
I actually, I, I don't have thenumbers in front of me.
I probably should pull them up.
I actually did a review back in2021 or 2022.
My first review of our healthcost sharing ministry, and I
talked about like the breakdownof the costs for like how much
we actually have been saving nowthat we switched to a health
(10:01):
cost sharing ministry.
And that was the, the mainreason we switched was it was
just costing us so We, We werebarely using it and it was a
high deductible and we were justkind of like, you know, this is,
I just.
I feel like there's somethingbetter out there.
And I had started hearing aboutdifferent cost sharing
ministries out there and didsome research and I was like,
I'll try it out.
(10:22):
So I actually switched myselffirst.
I jumped over, Wes stayed ontraditional health insurance for
a while kind of tested it out,and I actually went through and
used it all for, um, my meniscusrepair and everything got
covered and it worked reallygreat and I was like, this is
what working out fantastically.
(10:42):
And so we switched Wes over aswell.
And so we actually, we useChristian Healthcare Ministries
and we've been with them nowsince 21.
And we've really been enjoyingthem.
They've been really wonderful.
One of my favorite things isobviously they are faith-based,
but Christian is in their nameand that means that they decide
(11:06):
the types of medical events,like medical incidents and stuff
that get covered need to alignwith of like their biblical
principles that they have setbefore them and for members.
That they need to align to.
And we've actually really,really appreciated that.
There's some things that peopledon't agree with, and I think
(11:27):
that is okay.
They don't cover, like if get,pregnant out of wedlock, they
will not share the medical,expenses for that pregnancy
because you did not adhere to ayou know, biblical lifestyle
that they, you know, you have tosign a covenant basically before
(11:47):
you join Christian HealthcareMinistries saying you're not
going to partake in these kindsof things.
But if you do, then thoseexpenses are not going to be
shared if, if you have them.
And I actually really appreciateAnd because health cost sharing
like ministries and programslike this, because they're not
traditional health insurance,they don't need to cover all the
(12:08):
things that Obamacare now saysthat we have to cover in health
insurance.
And because of that, they'reable to keep the monthly kind of
like premiums.
They're not necessarily calledpremiums.
'cause again, it's not healthinsurance.
In Christian HealthcareMinistries, they the monthly
share amount.
It's like how much you shareinto the ministry.
And so because they don't coverall the things, it helps keep
(12:33):
our monthly share amount, muchlower.
This is different per medicalcost sharing program, because
Medi-Share is one of the morepopular ones out there, they
actually align a little bit moreclosely to how traditional
health insurance works withhaving copays and deductibles
(12:54):
and a network that you have towork with for providers.
Whereas with ChristianHealthcare Ministries, we don't
have copays.
We have something similar to adeductible, but it's much lower
and it has to meet certainrequirements and stuff.
And I on on our plan, it'sactually 1,250, so that's kind
of like our quote unquotedeductible.
(13:15):
And we're on Gold plan, which isthe more expensive one.
And so like they're almost theirhigh deductible plan, I'm using
quotes here$6,000 per year kindof would have to pay per year
for incidents and stuff.
Chrissy (13:33):
You, you're saying that the highest level that they have
has.
A$6,000 deductible
Katie (13:38):
The lowest, so their bronze plan has the highest but
their gold plan, which is whatwe're on, is Like the lowest
deductible, but it's the highestmonthly premium
Chrissy (13:53):
got it.
That's what I was saying.
So high monthly premiums withlow deductibles or low monthly
premiums with high deductibles,
Katie (13:59):
Yes, and that's kind of like the whole point of health
insurance and everything youhave to consider like the
deductible that you are willingto take.
And I'm using the worddeductible just as a general
blanket term because most of usunderstand what a deductible
kind of is.
But again, with these healthcost sharing programs, it's not
exactly a deductible.
(14:20):
It's very similar to, butthere's few quirky differences
that I go into in some of myYouTube videos, if anybody wants
to dive into like ChristianHealthcare Ministry
specifically, I'm trying to keepit as general as possible if
you're looking into otherprograms.
But you know, you kind of thinkabout, what risk am I willing to
take when it comes to my healthexpenses?
(14:42):
So if you do have a largemedical event, do you have an
emergency fund set aside to payfor a higher deductible?
When we, like earlier on, weactually did do that, and we did
do the higher deductible becauseI'm like, okay, we don't have as
much risk and we have this moneyset aside for the deductible if
anything were to happen for ourcar insurance, we actually a, a
(15:05):
pretty high deductible'cause I'mlike, cars are paid off and so
I'm like, if anything happens,we just.
Pay the deductible and we, it'sfine'cause we have the money set
aside to pay for that kind of anemergency.
But, there are a lot ofbenefits.
One of the big things that Ihave come to really, really love
(15:25):
with Christian HealthcareMinistries and some of the other
cost sharing programs out theredo this, is that they do not
have a network that you have towork with.
So you get to choose whichprovider you go to.
So you could pick like the bestperson for whatever your need
is.
So if you have cancer and youwant to see the best doctor to
(15:47):
help you treat that, you can goto that doctor it, you don't
have to worry about them beingin network or not.
And, and that's really somethingthat we've actually appreciated
and in simple ways because whenWes had his ankle surgery, I
sent him to the same orthopedicplace that I went to for my
(16:07):
meniscus a few years beforethat.
And then I didn't have to worryabout whether our physical
therapist was in network.
I just picked the closest onethat I thought was the greatest.
Um, And so that way it was likeonly two minutes from my house,
and I didn't have to worrywhether they were a network
because when you're a part of acost sharing program, you're
actually considered a self-paypatient and, and I know that
(16:29):
some people get really freakedout about that because they're
like, oh, well then I have topay everything outta pocket.
And what if they don't pay?
We've been with CHM and have hada lot of different medical
events at this point, andeverything that qualifies for
sharing has been shared and wehave gotten the reimbursements
back for those expenses.
And we have had no problems withit.
(16:51):
Now we have had a few medicalevents that do not technically
qualify for sharing, but we knewthat ahead of time going into it
and we knew, well, this is justsomething that's gonna be out of
pocket for us.
So it's a little of like amentality switch, We've, we've
really come in America tobelieve that health insurance
just pay for all of our healthexpenses no matter what they
are.
(17:11):
And so because of that, we feelvery entitled when we go to,
like the doctor and we're like,well, this needs to be paid for
and this needs to be paid for,and my labs and this, and blah,
blah, blah.
But, we think of our health inthat sense, I've had friends who
are like, oh, well, I wouldreally like to get this looked
at, but my health insurancegonna get pay for it, so I'm
just not gonna go do that.
(17:32):
And I'm like, what if you couldbe critically ill and you have
no idea just because you justdon't wanna pay for it yourself
out of pocket.
It's like we've lost the senseof going to the doctor or going
to any kind of provider.
It, like, you wanna think of itas like a preventative Like Your
(17:54):
like quality of life could bebetter if you actually get these
things taken care of and itneeds to be an investment into
yourself and your future even togo and take care of these things
versus throwing it off becausemy health insurance isn't gonna
pay for this.
And so you know, we've beengoing like the acupuncturist
lately we go to thechiropractor, we go to all these
(18:15):
different people and CHM doesn'tpay for those things, but I know
that it's an investment into ourhealth, so that way we won't get
sick and won't need to go to thehospital and won't need to have
all these chronic illnesses.
And so it's just a mentalityshift that I think country
really, really needs.
Chrissy (18:34):
I I also wanna touch on that a little bit.
You mentioned in-network versusout-of-network doctors and you
know, I live in North Carolina.
There's A lot very large healthproviding companies here in this
part of the state.
And so it's actually reallyunfortunate because if there is
a specialist at a differententity who is like the number
(18:57):
one specialist in the UnitedStates, I am not able to go to
that specialist because myhealth insurance is provided
through the entity that I workfor.
And so because I work for ahospital, they only cover
doctors in network through thehealth.
Chrissy (3) (19:15):
system I work for so if the number one
neurosurgeon is in a differenthealth system and I need a
neurosurgeon, now, I don't needa neurosurgeon.
But if this ever happened, thatwould be really unfortunate
because I would not have accessto the best neurosurgeon in the
United States, even thoughthey're only a 15 minute drive
away from me.
And so.
(19:36):
That is one of the things that'slike really hard to kind of wrap
your head around of whether ornot a doctor is in network or
out of network and being able togo to whichever provider you
would like.
Another thing that I actuallyfound interesting about my
traditional healthcare is, theydid not cover my chiropractor.
Chrissy (19:57):
And so I decided to start going to a chiropractor
because of back pain.
Due to the nature of my jobbeing a nurse.
You know, it happens and myinsurance, did not cover the
chiropractor, but at the sametime, so I, I am now a patient
paying out of pocket at mychiropractor's office, but the
(20:18):
amount that I'm paying out ofpocket.
For each appointment is lessthan my copay would have been if
I used my health insurance topay for my chiropractor.
And I've also heard it's verysimilar with, getting
ultrasounds during pregnancy.
If you decide you want a 3Dultrasound for your baby, you
(20:40):
pay significantly less money ifyou decide to pay out of pocket
for this procedure, rather thanallowing the health insurance
company to pay for theprocedure, or if the health
insurance company says theywon't cover it, you know?
And so, I've also heard the sameabout the use of an ambulance if
you do not have healthinsurance.
(21:03):
The cost of an ambulance issignificantly cheaper than if
you do have health insurancebecause the health insurance
companies want the cost to behigher because then they get
paid more.
And so it, it's just, it's kindof like a, a backwards thought.
And so Katie, yeah, I thinkyou're very right in that we
(21:24):
need to shift our understandingof how health is paid for in
America because traditionalhealth insurance is not a
catchall for the costs.
Like they say, they cover 80% ofthe costs, but me paying 20% of
$2,000 is still more than mepaying 100% of$100.
(21:45):
You know, and that's the kind ofcost difference that we're
talking about here.
For these situations.
Katie (21:51):
Wes' ankle surgery, so as a self-pay patient, we get all
of the itemized bills from ourproviders and whenever we go to
the provider, we tell them, Hey,we're self-pay.
Do you offer any self-paydiscounts?
And in almost a hundred percentof the cases, they offer
(22:12):
significant reductions in thebills.
So I actually have the numbersin front of me, Wes' bills
before any of the discounts.
This is total for everything.
This is going to the emergencyroom.
'cause he, his situation was,uh, he fell from a roof and so
we went to the ER for that.
And then it was all the, likegetting the MRI and, and going
(22:33):
for all the follow-upappointments and then the actual
surgery that he had and thephysical therapy.
So everything total was$112,000.
A little bit over.
After the discounts, it was$22,000, so that's almost$90,000
in discounts alone.
(22:53):
So we sent all of these bills toChristian Healthcare Ministries
to then be shared amongst theministry.
Out of pocket we only paid athousand dollars, so kind of at
the time our shareable kind ofquote unquote deductible, like
that was our personalresponsibility is what it's
called.
And so it
Chrissy (23:11):
So because Of Your Christian healthcare ministries,
you paid out of pocket 1% ofyour entire healthcare bill.
Also can we just acknowledge thefact that a broken ankle
requiring surgery costs ahundred thousand dollars?
Katie (23:28):
Yeah, it was, I mean, again, it every every single
bill, like like the x-rays andthe follow-ups and physical
therapy.
So it's everything.
And I
Chrissy (23:35):
But still.
Katie (23:36):
But the physical therapy appointment alone, so have, I, I
have spreadsheets of this stuff.
Just a single appointment beforeself-pay discounts was$430.
And then every time Wes wouldpay only$95 of that.
So he'd pay$95,$95 each timehe'd go and we'd submit the
bills and then get a check inthe mail from Christian
(23:57):
Healthcare Ministries for thosethings.
Chrissy (23:59):
I'm gonna be real, I promise you.
Those physical therapists arenot getting paid$400 an hour.
They're not getting paid$95 anhour.
Katie (24:09):
Yeah.
And then, so here I've heard somany instances.
I don't have personal experiencewith this, but after listening
to reviews on YouTube or justhearing other podcast episodes,
I've I've literally heardstories of people who, am.
the ambulance ride actually is areally good example.
I think I heard this on apodcast the other day where
somebody had an ambulance rideand it was going to be like,
(24:31):
they got a bill in the mailafter their insurance paid for
things, they were responsiblefor$800.
And so they fought it andthey're like, Hey, why is this
ambulance ride still$800 andthey're like, oh, I'm so sorry.
We actually realized that wedidn't put your insurance in
here properly.
We'll run it through yourinsurance again and send you the
bill.
And so they're like, great,thank you so much.
Well, a month or so later, theyget another bill in the mail
(24:53):
from the ambulance company, andit's now higher.
Then it the$800 and they'relike, Hey, what's going on?
I thought you were gonna sendthis to the insurance company.
They're like, oh, well we did.
This is now your responsibilityafter insurance is paid and it
costs them more.
And same thing like people go tophysical therapy like that.
Chrissy (25:14):
And then the question goes to show, well, can I choose
to not use my insurance to coverthis?
And the answer is no, becauseyou have now identified that you
have an insurance, plan thatcovers your ambulance ride.
And so therefore you must usethe insurance plan that quote
unquote covers your ambulanceride even though their coverage
(25:35):
still results in you paying morefor the ambulance ride.
Katie (25:38):
It seriously, is so, like, like the system is broken.
We really have gotten to thisplace where again, both the
provider and the insurancecompany benefit from the cost
going up.
And then we as the consumer ofthese health expenses, health,
products, basically, we are theones footing the bill for all of
(26:01):
this, and they all just benefitfrom us staying sick.
And I hate to say it sometimesbecause I have so many friends
similar to you that are, thatare providers, they are nurses,
they're doctors, they'resurgeons, dentists, like.
I have friends who are in theseindustries and I would never say
that Chrissy herself is lookingfor me to stay sick or that any
(26:22):
of my friends are wanting me tostay sick.
I just don't think that theyrealize a lot of times like
what's going on with theinsurance companies and
everything, and when peoplestart to recognize that, they
realize the corrupt system thatthey are sort of a part of.
And we had a friend who, youknow, moved outside of
(26:42):
traditional Um, chiropractic tostart their own chiropractic
care, facility or, company.
And he does not take insurancebecause going through insurance,
he's like, it's gonna cost youas a patient so much more to
come see me, even if yourinsurance is involved.
And for him too, he gets paidless from the insurance
(27:03):
companies.
And so it, it almost feels likenobody's winning and you're
like, what is going on?
So whenever I find providers whojust do not work with insurance
in general, I love them.
Like that's where we sendMalakai for appointments.
We do direct primary care, whichis a whole nother world, we just
pay for a monthly subscriptionwith them and go as often as we
(27:23):
want., And it's so much betterbecause there's no middleman
telling us what we can and can'tdo.
And, it's just so crazy.
Chrissy (27:33):
And that's another thing is that the middleman, the
health insurance companies arethe ones essentially deciding
whether or not a procedure or atreatment is necessary
Katie (27:43):
That is so insane to me
Chrissy (27:45):
Which it's crazy because these are a bunch of
people who are not doctors whodo not work in healthcare,
making the ultimate decision onwhether or not a treatment is
going to be covered or paid forfor this patient.
And so we could be talking aboutlife saving treatments.
That insurance companies merelyjust like will not pay for, and
(28:05):
it's very unfortunate.
In addition, like we have abunch of patients who need to go
to acute rehab or a skillednursing facility after leaving
the hospital because they'remedically cleared.
But yet they had a broken hip,and so they're unsafe to
mobilize at home by themselves.
And so they need to go to somesort of inpatient rehab until
(28:25):
they're able to mobilize safely,you know?
And ultimately it is theinsurance company's decision on
whether or not they're able togo to a good quality rehab
facility or a low quality rehabfacility.
And I just look at it, I'm like,this is so incredibly unfair
that if you have crappyinsurance, that you can't go to
(28:48):
a facility.
Now I do wonder, I have hadpatients who are self-pay, they
are sometimes completely unableto go to nursing facilities or
acute rehab.
So Katie, I don't know if youhave any, experience with that.
Do you know if these healthshare companies cover nursing
facilities or, acute rehab, likeinpatient rehab, sort of things.
Katie (29:12):
My initial reaction is probably not, for some of these
situations.
I don't believe ChristianHealthcare Ministries does.
I'm not sure about somethinglike Medi-Share, Medi-Share
might, don't take me at my wordfor that.
So people have to go do theirown research on that, but so,
we're actually consideringswitching from Christian
(29:33):
Healthcare Ministries for a fewdifferent reasons.
And one of the places that weare looking at switching, I know
that for them specifically, theyactually only allow people up to
the age of 65, and then onceyou're over 65, you have to go
find something else like maybeChristian Healthcare Ministries
or Medi-Share.
And so they probably wouldn'thave something like that
Chrissy (29:54):
So that sounds like another strategy that they use
to keep those health sharingcosts low.
For the vast majority of thepopulation that is below the age
of 65, who doesn't have thechronic, continuous, health
needs.
So like a, a normal middle-aged,healthy person, the vast
majority of their healthcareneeds are probably emergency
(30:17):
based, situations or traumabased situations rather than
chronic illnesses.
And I think that's kind of thefocus of a lot of these health
share things is they focus a lotmore on providing for those
traumatic situations and theemergency situations.
But for chronic illnesses andchronic conditions, they really
(30:39):
do encourage you to get ahead ofyour chronic illnesses to
prevent them from happeningbecause they don't cover them as
well.
Katie (30:49):
I mean, it does bring us back to the point of like if we
start shifting our mindset tohealth insurance or a health
insurance type thing, being moreof a provider in these
catastrophic situations, likein, in an emergent situation.
(31:10):
That's really what it's intendedfor.
We really need to start gettingaway from the idea of like
health insurance covering all ofour little preventative things
because that should be more ofan investment into our health.
Like those kinds of things, likegoing to your doctor on a
regular basis and going andtaking care of some small things
like that should be morepreventative and more of an
(31:32):
investment in yourself, in yourlong-term future.
Whereas like I think healthinsurance is better used for
emergencies and that's what wehave really done.
Or like maybe not evenemergencies.
Let me clarify that (31:44):
larger incidents or larger medical
events like, so pregnancy isanother one that can cost, you
know, out of pocket for us.
Well, I will do a little likedisclaimer.
Ours was a little bit,different.
For a normal pregnancy ifeverything had gone totally
(32:04):
normal for us, it would've beenless than$15,000 for the whole,
pregnancy and birth andeverything.
And then we would've only paidaround like 2 to$3,000 out of
pocket.
'Cause the personalresponsibility is slightly
higher for a maternity eventwith Christian Healthcare
Ministries.
And so it was slightly differentand we can get into that another
day.
(32:25):
But it would've like if we startthinking of health insurance
just for the emergentsituations, and then put our
finances and actually invest inour health, like take whatever
we were gonna be paying forthose premiums and high
deductibles and invest in ourhealth.
That's what we've been reallydoing ourselves, like Wes and I
(32:46):
with our family is, okay, wehave this for the catastrophic
events and any pregnancies andthings like that, but
day-to-day, yeah, we are goingto the acupuncturist.
Yeah, we are going to thechiropractor.
Yeah.
I do go to my annual physicalsand get my labs done and things
like that.
And that's all out of pocket forus.
And that is just an investmentand it's something I put on my
budget for every year and wehave an amount saved for that.
(33:08):
And so it's just a different wayof thinking and we need to start
getting to that versus askingour health insurance what we can
and can't do.
It's just, it's so silly.
Chrissy (33:19):
I, I think in addition to that, you know, Max and I, I
mentioned earlier we weretalking about transitioning from
traditional healthcare tonon-traditional healthcare.
And we're in that same positionthat you guys were in at the
beginning of your marriage of weare both pretty healthy and so
we don't really use the extentof our health insurance.
We pay nearly$350 a month.
(33:42):
We go to primary care and maybeone or two urgent care visits a
year for like the flu.
You know, it, it's not a hugecost that we are incurring of
healthcare at this point in ourlives because we are generally
healthy, and so we havestrategized of like, okay, we're
already spending$350 a month on.
(34:04):
Health insurance, even though wedon't use it nearly at all
because we are healthy people.
And so we've strategized that ifwe decide to switch to a
non-traditional health insuranceor a non-traditional healthcare
company, then we can still savethat$350 a month and use it for
(34:27):
those preventative things likeacupuncture, chiropractic,
annual physicals, things likethat, direct primary care.
And even then with all of thosethings added up.
We would still be able to payfor those out of pocket and save
for the catastrophic events thatwill inevitably happen because
(34:48):
we're human and we live onplanet Earth.
And that's what happens tohumans on planet Earth is things
go wrong.
And so, yeah, just like the$350a month can more than pay for
the expenses that we actuallyincur throughout the year, and
(35:08):
so would give us the opportunityto save for those catastrophic
events and be able to coverourselves by ourselves more
effectively than a healthinsurance company can because at
this point, paying$350 a monthtowards the health insurance
company.
Limits us from being able tosave for catastrophic health
events where we might get a billin the mail that is equal to our
(35:32):
annual deductible of$10,000Where we'd say, well, we have an
emergency fund, but we don'thave a medical fund.
You know?
And so, and at what point do yousay, well, I lost my job because
of this medical expense?
Well, there, boom, emergencyfund, gone in two seconds, you
know?
Katie (35:50):
I've been hearing lot more also, again, like these are
on my podcast and YouTube videosand stuff, that there have been
a lot of instances where healthinsurance companies will like
hit you with these surprisebills and they'll decline your
claims and things like that.
(36:11):
And for things like, one of theexamples that I heard, and I may
have shared it on here before,but it was the guy who brought
his daughter in to, get her earschecked.
She was having chronic earinfections and couldn't sleep,
and it was like really impactingher quality of life and just her
ability to stay healthy ingeneral.
(36:33):
And the doctor had recommendedputting tubes in her ears and
she got the surgery done.
And the hospital said, yeah, wework with your insurance in
general.
That was kind of the phraselike, we work with your
insurance.
And so they, here as thecustomer, were thinking, okay,
great.
You're gonna work with theinsurance.
The insurance is gonna pay forthis.
But after the surgery was done,their kiddo was doing really
(36:57):
well.
Sleeping was, becoming morehealthy, not having all these
chronic ear infections.
And then a few months later theyget a bill in the mail for
thousands of dollars, like Iwould think it was like$30,000
for this surgery.
And it was like, sorry, thisclaim was declined.
And so they battled with theirinsurance month over month for
so long for this insuranceclaim, saying no, the doctor
(37:21):
said it was medically necessary,but they, the insurance company
was like, Nope, this is, thiswas just something that you were
choosing to get done.
It was elective and theinsurance company kept declining
it and they fought for so longand they finally were like, this
is pointless.
Like, we, we are not gonna win.
We can't, and then they werefinding out that so many other
people were dealing with thesesame things.
(37:41):
And this is like a bigwell-known company.
I won't plaster it out there,but it's like this health
insurance company is doing thison several occasions and I'm
like, oh my gosh.
That is really scary and ratherunfortunate that you think that
your insurance company's gonnahelp pay for you.
And then unfortunately, it'sdriving patients to like
(38:01):
bankruptcy because they're like,I thought I would be able to do
this with my insurance and now Ican't and I can't pay for this.
So yeah it's, I've, I actually,I think I have the quote, one
out of five claims submitted tohealth insurance plans are
denied every year.
So that's 20% of health claimsright now, like this is a
(38:23):
current stat that I have and soyou just don't know and that's
the scary thing.
It's like you, your provideritself, your doctor is saying
these are medically necessary,but then your insurance
company's like, nah.
Chrissy (38:34):
I do wonder, are there, do you know of any situation in
which it would be beneficial forsomebody to stick with a
traditional health insurancecompany rather than switching to
a non-traditional healthinsurance company?
Katie (38:51):
Ugh.
Yeah.
Well, what's interesting too,again, with the cost sharing
programs, a lot of them supportpeople who are healthier.
That being said, ChristianHealthcare Ministries does not
decline anybody based on theirhealth.
And so you could be anybody, butI mean, one thing to consider is
that CHM does not pay forongoing prescriptions.
(39:14):
So if you have any kind ofmedical prescription for a
chronic illness that you have,CHM will not pay for that out of
pocket.
Now, I know that for some peoplethat actually could be an
astronomical expense dependingon the medication that you're
taking, and so sticking withtraditional health insurance
(39:36):
might potentially be beneficialin that situation.
But what I would even encouragefor that person is if that's
you, then work to potentiallyreverse whatever it is that you
have, if it's possible.
Like find a naturopath doctorwho can help you actually get
out of that.
Autoimmune disease or something,so that way you don't have to
continue with that medicationlong term.
(39:58):
And then consider switching.
The other program that we'reconsidering looking into and
switching to they don't takepeople who are obese.
And so if you weigh over acertain amount, and it's
different for both male andfemale, they won't allow you
into the program.
And because you know, there's alot more health costs, that are
(40:19):
typically incurred from peoplewho are obese.
And so
Chrissy (40:23):
Katie, what's the name of that one?
Katie (40:24):
The program itself is called, Crowd Health.
So it's similar to likecrowdsourcing, right?
So crowdsourcing for your healthand.
Yeah, we're considering it.
Christian Healthcare Ministries,their cost has been increasing
over the last few years, prettyconsistently.
They've also had morerestrictions, like CHM has added
(40:48):
some more restrictions as far aswhat you can and can't share.
And there's just been a lot morefine print that it's like, okay,
working around a lot of thesethings.
I also really like So, Crowdhealth does not have a cap for
the expenses that you can share.
So you were mentioning that withthe deductibles and stuff, with
(41:10):
a traditional health insurance,you have a deductible that you
pay, but then after you pay thedeductible, the health insurance
will pay a certain percentage ofthose expenses after your
deductible, but only up into acertain amount.
And then after that, you'reresponsible for it.
CHM has something similar,unless you're on their CHM plus
Program, where if you add theCHM Plus program, it makes the
(41:34):
sharing unlimited.
But crowd health, there is nocap.
There's no maximum to how muchyou can share within reason.
I mean, obviously if there'ssomething catastrophic that's
happening and you have millionsof dollars worth of medical
bills, which is a, a very realpossibility because we have
experienced that ourselves, likemillions of dollars.
They would fund that and workwith the whole Crowd Health
(41:59):
community to fund that.
But they also want, they have alot of like interesting scoring
and stuff, but we can get intothat a little bit more later
Chrissy (42:08):
So I really wanna dive into a little bit more on like
the specifics of the differencesbetween Christian Healthcare
Ministries, Medi-share, and thisnew Crowd Health that you're
mentioning, Katie.
But unfortunately we are runningout of time and so we can get
into all three of thosespecifics during this episode,
but.
(42:28):
Stay Tuned.
Next Friday we're gonna betalking about all three of those
and the specifics of them, thecomparison pros, cons, compare
and contrast with all three ofthese different health sharing
companies that are out there andpotentially more if we hear
about more.
If there are other companiesthat you wanna hear about, let
us know, and we might be able tocreate another podcast in the
(42:51):
future about other healthcarecompanies that are available to
the public.
So, yeah, come back next Friday.
These episodes are posted everyFriday, wherever you listen to
your podcast on Spotify, Appleor YouTube.
And make sure if you are lovingour podcast, you leave a five
star review so other people canhear about it more easily and
(43:15):
learn more just as you arelearning.
And we are learning altogether.
So.
Thanks for tuning into ourconversation today.
Be sure to subscribe and alsojoin us over on Facebook.
On our Facebook group, CrunchyChristian Mamas on a Budget
where we share tips and trickson everything health, from food
to cleaning supplies, tohealthcare to chickens.
(43:37):
Love the chickens.
We also have created anInstagram page.
It's called Crunchy Stewardship.
Easy to find.
We are public, so go ahead andfollow us over there and, we can
continue these conversations andget involved in our community.
Until Next time, this is Chrissy
Katie (43:52):
and this is Katie.
Chrissy (43:53):
and thanks for listening to Crunchy
Stewardship.
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