What to Prioritize First in Your Crunchy Journey with Anna McLaughlin

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hey, and welcome to CrunchyStewardship.

(00:01):
My name is Katie Fiola Jones.
Chrissy and I are cousins whoare passionate about learning
and sharing knowledge to equipothers to steward their
spiritual, mental, emotional,financial, and physical health
in order to honor God in everyaspect of their lives.
In our podcast, we take deepdives into what it means to
steward our lives as Godoriginally intended for us with

(00:23):
the resources that he has givenus.
We look at topics such as food,medicine, finances, mental
health, and lots more through anatural lens and with a biblical
foundation.
Today is another specialepisode.
Obviously Chrissy is not herewith me again, but I do have a

(00:43):
very special guest with me forthis episode, so you don't have
to listen to me rambling on thistime.
Hopefully you enjoyed thatepisode where it was just myself
sharing some free tips on how tostart to live a non-toxic
lifestyle and honor God withyour body and your finances.

(01:04):
This episode is with a goodfriend of mine, Anna, who is
going to talk to us a little bitabout what do we do when there
is just so much overwhelm withthe options that we can choose
when it comes to our.
Health and wellness journeys.

(01:25):
Obviously Chrissy and I havegone through so many different
areas of health and wellness andit can feel really overwhelming
at times when you feel like youneed to do so many different
things differently.
Well, in this episode, Anna isgoing to give us some practical
tips on what we can be doingwhen we feel that overwhelm.
Um, and, and just taking a stepback.

(01:47):
This whole health and wellnessjourney, we do want to be good
stewards of our bodies and ourresources and our energy even.
And so she's going to give ussome practical tips on how to do
that.
This episode you'll get to hear,um, a few words from Malachi as

(02:08):
well.
We were recording this episodekind of in the middle of the
day, and Malachi was supposed tobe napping, however, that did
not happen.
Well, actually, he was napping.
I accidentally woke him up.
It was a whole thing that itwas, you know, it was just a
challenge.
This episode is also coming outa little bit later than usual
because there were sometechnical challenges that I had

(02:31):
when editing this episode, andso I don't know.
It felt very much like therewere some spiritual attacks
going on.
In the process of getting thisepisode out.
Um, so yeah, maybe, I mean, it,as I was re-listening to this
episode, I think that there wasa reason why Satan was attacking

(02:51):
it, because in this episode we.
Just bring it all back to Jesusand remind ourselves not to make
this health and wellness journeyan idle.
And I think that the enemy wasnot happy about that.
And so I think there's somethingto be said about all of these
challenges that we faced gettingthis episode out there to you.

(03:11):
So take that, um, in mind, youknow, hold that in your heart as
you listen to this episode.
Um, and I'm just praying thatyou will be spiritually
refreshed.
Uh.
From this episode with Anna, solet us know what you think about
it.
This is our second episode witha guest as well.
So if you enjoy having, likegetting the chance to hear from

(03:33):
other people in the health andwellness kind of crunchy
Christian space, let us know sothat way we can find other
people to bring on.
And if there's like a specialistor someone that you'd love to
hear from, let us know as welland we can try to find those
people to, uh, bring on and.
Just get to hear a little bitmore from a different

(03:54):
perspective and people who kindof know things because again,
Chrissy and I don't know all thethings all the time, and so it's
great getting to hear fromothers and get some new opinions
and thoughts and ideas outthere.
So anyway, with that, we willjump into the conversation with
Anna.

Katie (04:11):
Okay, everyone.
So now we're going to introduceour wonderful guest today, Anna
mcl.

Anna McLaughlin (04:18):
mla.

Katie (04:18):
Is it McLaughlin?
Is that how you pronounce it?

That it could be one of

Katie (04:22):
Great.

things.
You got it?

Katie (04:24):
Yeah, and I just second guess myself right there.
I should have just gone for itconfidently.
I am really excited to have youhere today, Anna.
Just a, a brief intro and then Iwanna, I want you to tell people
who you are and what you do, butAnna and I met, gosh, it's
probably been at least sixmonths, six months ago through,
it was a po It's uh, what's thatplatform called?

it

Katie (04:47):
Uh.

where we met or was it something else?

Katie (04:50):
It was pod match.
So yeah, it was at the timewhere I was just trying to get
on more podcasts myself as aguest and pod match helps guests
and podcasts meet.
And we kind of met, andhonestly,

It

Katie (05:06):
was around the time where my cousin and I, Chrissy, who
would do this podcast together,we're talking about doing a
podcast together

and

Katie (05:15):
we were just getting things started ourselves.

but I

Katie (05:18):
I was getting on more podcasts to talk about faith and
finances at the time.

And

Katie (05:24):
so I had originally kind of reached out to you saying
like, Hey, I'd love to talkabout money and, but I also see
that you're kind of in this likecrunchy space.
Like I remember going throughyour website and being so
excited that I found you becauseat that point

I

Katie (05:40):
did not know a lot of other kind of crunchy people
besides my cousin and a few ofmy friends.
And so I just got really excitedabout that and I was like, I
also kind of would love to talka little bit about this because
it is actually a passion of mine

just to

Katie (05:54):
to talk about like health and wellness and family and all
these wonderful topics from abiblical perspective.
So I was so excited to connectwith you.
And now here we are, my cousinand I have this podcast that I
think I told you about at thetime,

you did

Katie (06:09):
and yeah, and I'm like, I would love to have you on our
podcast just to.
To talk and share a little bitof your journey and some of the
things that are really, thatyou're really passionate about.
So yeah, that's my quick introof why you're here.
But why don't you tell us alittle bit more about who you

(06:29):
are and what you do and, andwhat you're passionate about,
and even what your podcast kindof goes into

Yeah, so my name is Anna.
I'm a homeschooling mom of four.
My kids are ages 13 to seven,and um, and I also have a
podcast Overwhelmed toOvercomer, and that is a podcast
that's really geared towardsministering to Christian women
and helping to walk out.

(06:58):
purpose from a place of reallybeing rooted in the love of God.
So my, my primary core valuesare, um, belonging, stewardship,
and co and courage.
So the belonging pieces, notonly first and foremost
belonging with into the father,really leaning into that John 15

(07:18):
vine and branches walk.
But then from there, what doesit look like to belong with
ourselves, to feel, you know,safe in who we are and, and
confident in that, what does itlook like to belong with those
we love and to have healthyrelationships, healthy family
systems and all of that.
I'm a first generationChristian, so there was a lot of
undoing to do.
And so there's, there's a bigemphasis on that in the, in the

(07:40):
overwhelm to overcome ourconversation.
then, um, stewardship.
You know, we, we aren't savedthrough our works.
I really like Wes Huff thesedays.
He's a theologian I've beenlistening to a lot.
Uh, he says, we're not saved byour works, but we're saved for
works.
Like then for, for once we'resaved.
Then it's like, okay, now wewalk this thing out by advancing
the kingdom, our, um, our workis to glorify God and to enjoy

(08:04):
him forever.
That's part of the, oh, one ofthe, the Wesley.
lost it anyway.
It's one of those catechisms,it's one of the ca it's one of
the Catechisms Westminster.
There we go.
And so, um, so stewardstewardship.
How do we, how do we be faithfulwith what we've been given?
And then, um, and that onlyworks when we first belong.

(08:26):
'cause otherwise we're inshoulds and not toss.
And then courage.
Just, we need guts.
We need guts to trust God.
We need guts to trust otherpeople.
We need guts to be brave and goout and do the thing.
So that's what we talk about inoverwhelm to overcomer.
I have amazing guests like you.
Come on.
I share my own thoughts of whatthe Lord's doing in my life.
It's always current.
So I'm like, literally yesterdayI was praying and here's where
we are today.

(08:46):
So, um, I've been doing that forabout two years and really all
the businesses are quiet rightnow.
I, I did coaching for a season.
I have this dream of doingretreats and um, really the
focus right now is home.
And then this podcast is mylittle offering to the world.

Katie (09:02):
Yeah, I think you and I are in a similar season of just
having businesses and have been,you know, we've had that kind of
stuff, but God has called us tobe present with our families,
but it's always so fun to.
Have kind of these passionprojects on the side to get to
still share with the world.
I

have

Katie (09:23):
always kind of considered myself an educator in many
different realms, and this isone of those ways in which I can
still be teaching and sharing

what

Katie (09:34):
God is, is, you know, sharing with me, but not in, I
don't know.
I feel like with podcastingthere is kind of like a,

it's,

Katie (09:44):
it's, it's a little bit more freeing.
There's a lot more space tolike, just

yourself.

Katie (09:50):
and get to share.
Yeah.
What's current, like what isreally going on right now?
This podcast, we're gonna berecording it and it is going to
come out I think this week.
So it's like, it is go, it's sofresh.
Like it is just right here,right now.

It's,

Katie (10:05):
But we're not here to talk about podcasting
necessarily.
Um, I actually have you on todayto talk about kind of crunchy
stuff, but.
From the perspective of like,what really is important,
because so many of our listenersand my friends who come to me
and ask all the questions,

um,

Katie (10:25):
one of the biggest questions that I get from
everyone is like, what do I dofirst?
What is going to make thebiggest impact?
You know, what do I need to bedoing right now?
Like, is this thing really thatimportant or should I focus on
something else?
And so there is,

there's

Katie (10:40):
so much, and this crunchy world really can be very
overwhelming.

Yeah.

Katie (10:44):
I mean, Christy and I have already had, you know, 20
plus episodes and most of themare all about different things.
And so if you count that as like20 plus different topics,

looks

Katie (10:55):
like there are just so many different things

That

Katie (10:58):
we could be doing.
But it really does come down tothe question of what's the most
important and.
Yeah.
Where do we focus our energy andour resources?
So if we're thinking about itfrom a stewardship perspective,
we can't just go and spend allour money on every single thing
that we hear about when we hearabout it.

(11:18):
So yeah, why don't you sharewith us what your

kind of

Katie (11:23):
of theory and how you approach that topic.

so, so I'll start with where I started in
the crunchy world, because Ihave a feeling this might
resonate there.
There's a little bit, it's, it'soften described as, and then I
went down the rabbit hole,right?
And all of a sudden now I'mseeing all the things.
for me, the rabbit hole wasbasically about 14 years ago.
I was pregnant with our

Katie (11:47):
Hmm.

and um, and I started going to a chiropractor
because a friend of mine reallyliked him and what he had to
say.
And so we went from verytraditional OB GYN oversight,
you know, and I, and I would saythings like, well, I really
wanna have a natural birth.
And her response was, it's just,you just have to be flexible.
You just have to let it playout.

(12:09):
And, you know, fast forward sixmonths, several of my friends
were under her care and thosethat were all ended up with
C-sections.
And so, so for me, and come tofind out that the, I live in
Charlotte, North Carolina, theC-section rate is about a third.
And, um,

Katie (12:25):
Whoa.

and World Health Organization says
anything over 11% is probablymalpractice.
At least that

Katie (12:30):
Um,

14 years ago.
Okay.
So,

Katie (12:33):
that's crazy.

crazy.
So.
I'm on this very traditionalpath, you know, McDonald's is
just kind of the, the, my breadand butter on a busy day.
And, um, and I start going totalk to the, going to this
chiropractor's, um, seminars andstuff.
And all of a sudden we're havingconversations about, um, about
just different types ofmedications and what do we do

(12:56):
about, um, shots and what do wedo about the birth process
itself?
What kind of care should we beunder?
And um, and food and healthyfats and meats and quality of
vegetables and all of thesedifferent things.
And I remember at one pointsitting on my couch crying and
telling my husband, I can't eatanything.

(13:20):
I was either pregnant or justhad the baby.
And, um, you know, because allof a sudden everything I thought
was kind of neutral at, you

Katie (13:29):
Mm-hmm.

um, was, was bad for me.
And

Katie (13:33):
Mm-hmm.

I didn't know where to start.
So I went about it like atypical Type A in my twenties
and decided that we were justgonna do all the things,
absolutely everything, all atthe same time.
And, um, I was a corporatelawyer at the time, so we did
have some means.
So we just started pouring moneyinto chiropractic and healthier
foods and.

(13:55):
I don't even remember all thewhole essential oils.
Everything that people told mewas the thing.
I did it.
And my husband kept saying like,if you're gonna leave your job,
you know, we, we really can't.
'cause that was the goal was forme to not be a lawyer anymore.
Which, you know, got, we, we gotthe opportunity to do that a
couple years in, but I justcouldn't imagine not having

(14:16):
these things.
'cause you're, you're supposedto, you know, you're supposed to
have these things.
well, so that's where I startedand if that sounds familiar, I
think that's where a lot of usstart with the crunchy world.
'cause all of a sudden we seeit, we can't unsee it, and then
we join a couple of Facebookgroups and everybody's talking
about everything.
And what I will say is this.

(14:38):
There can be a lot of legalismand there can be some blinders
because each person, you know,it's kind of that adage every,
um, to a hammer, everything's anail, right?
And so if you're a chiropractor,it's all about spinal alignment.
If you're an essential oilsperson, it's all about the oils.
If

Katie (14:58):
Mm-hmm.

nutritionist, it's all about, you know, clean
meats and healthy fats and farmto table.
And I mean, I remember we wentout to dinner at a vegan
restaurant one night and it waslike$200 for the two of us.
And we were like, we're not evenfull.
The gourmet

Katie (15:16):
boy.

right.
You know, and it's just,

Katie (15:17):
Yes.

days when you're a corporate lawyer, you
can swing that these days.
You know, believe it or not, I'msure you know this, Katie,
stay-at-home.
Moms don't get paid that much.

Katie (15:27):
Not much at all.

How about that?
So we, um, so.
person would kind of tell us theimportance of their modality and
they believed it.
And you know what?
Like, that's great.
They should, they should be thatpassionate about what they're
offering.
Um, but we spent a, we spent alot of money and a lot of time,

(15:49):
and here's what shiftedeverything for me.
Katie, I'll give you this as acounterpoint.
And this is really where Istand.
It's gonna be frustrating forsome of your people who just are
like, gimme the list.
I want the list.
But I'm all about that

Katie (16:01):
Mm-hmm.

with the father, so I'm gonna take you
there instead.
Um, so I, I hit a point where myhusband got a knee replacement.
My toddler at the time, myyoungest was completely all
about daddy, 1000%.
And so, and my husband all of asudden can't go upstairs and put
him to bed.
And so here I am getting readyto be solo momming for the next

(16:25):
several weeks while my husbandrecovers from this knee
replacement.
And I know my son's gonna havelike a nightmare on his hands
because he wants daddy all thetime.
And I broke out in hives, likeall over my body,

Katie (16:37):
Oh

everywhere.
they didn't, they didn't go awaylike the spots left, but I was
itchy for months.
I spent

Katie (16:46):
wow.

$1,200 on an amazing functional medicine
person.
She got me on the supplements,she did testing.
We did all these differentthings.
And it became almost like thisobsession of mine, this
full-time job of like, I'm itchyall the time,

Katie (16:59):
Trying to cure it.
Yeah.

And there came a point where the Lord was like,
will you accept that you'reitchy right now?
Like, just stop.

Katie (17:08):
Oh wow.

And I entered into a season of basically rest.
I took baths, I took walks, Itook naps.
Not even necessarily to try tofix the problem, but just really
what was happening, unbeknownstto me, and the Lord was just
leading me through, is he washelping me calm down my nervous
system.
I sat, so it was Epsom saltbass.
I sat, I sat outside in thesunshine with my feet in the

(17:32):
grass.
I drank water.
I slept.
And wouldn't, you know, one daymy husband looked at me and he's
like, you haven't talked aboutbeing itchy in a really long
time.
And I was like, oh, it was gone.

Katie (17:45):
Yep.

And I needed that lesson so desperately.
And I feel, and this is myinvitation to you who are
listening, if you've beenfrantically trying to pin down
the list of where do I start, ifyou've had conversations with
your husband where he is, like,if we buy all organic and double
our grocery bill, that's notsustainable.
Or some, yeah, we're gonna haveto pick up extra shifts or

(18:08):
here's how our life's gonnachange.
you know, it's, we're not gonnalive forever.
It's not gonna be all perfectand buttoned up.
We all have what I like to callweak ankles.
You know, for me it's my mentalhealth.
That's what starts to go if I'mnot taking care of myself, my
husband's got joint issues, youknow, I know people with skin
issues.
Like we've got, we've

Katie (18:28):
Mm-hmm.

ankles and so what's the work to be with the
father?
know, we start and we end thereand then from there, watch for
where he's leading you.
that's really what it's allabout.
When we've tuned our hearts tohim, then if there's a thing
that needs done,'cause see whatthe crunchy community can, can

(18:50):
get in is they can get in adeficit mindset where it's like
you're lacking this.
And I remember being so excitedfor different purchases.
We bought a small red light, webought an air purifier, and I
was like, this is it.
This is gonna end the congestionissues, this is gonna end the
digestive issues, this is gonnaend the joint issues.
And we, spent bunches of money.

(19:11):
And when I'm

Katie (19:12):
Yep.

bunches, like for us, because we at, at a
point in time had the means.
Um, there was a year where wespent I think almost$20,000 on
chiropractic care.
Can you imagine

Katie (19:23):
Yep.
Yeah, that's a lot.
That is a lot.

Because it was.

Katie (19:26):
I love the chiropractor, but that is a lot.
Yeah.

we were gonna fix it, right?
We're gonna fix

Katie (19:31):
Yeah.

had a lot of joint issues, digestive issues
really didn't feel good.
And so I'm on it, babe, I'mgonna figure this

Katie (19:38):
Hmm.

I'm gonna solve.
And man, are we walking in lovewhen we're solving a puzzle?

Katie (19:44):
Wow.

so that's where I come down is, is if we, and
one of the really simple testsis like, am I operating in the,
the fruits of the spirit or am Inot?
So

Katie (19:55):
Mm-hmm.

am I coming from a place of love and joy and
peace?
Or I'm kind of sitting back andgoing, okay, Lord, what's next?
Oh, this just keeps comingacross my vision.
Oh, this just keeps

Katie (20:06):
Mm-hmm.

Is this the next thing?
Wow.
We have an extra$200 that weweren't expecting.
And that's the exact price ofthat thing.
Like, that's where we're reallycoming from, a place of abiding.
And what the, what the, me beingitchy season really taught me
was.
I can do all the right things.
And if I'm coming at it from aplace of striving and fear and
control, I'm never gonna end upin the right place.

(20:28):
And then conversely, there's somuch the Lord gives us that's
just free, you know, breathingand

Katie (20:35):
Mm-hmm.

and naps and grass,

Katie (20:38):
Sunshine.

right?
And all of a sudden now I'm in aplace of abundance where there's
more than enough for me to feelwell enough to serve in the way
that he called me.
And for a season that meant Iserved itchy, right?
I served my

Katie (20:53):
Mm-hmm.

and I itched.
And that was uncomfortable.
But he gave me the grace to doit.
And then it got to a point whereI didn't even notice that it was
gone because I was lookingsomewhere else.

Katie (21:04):
Wow.
You and I sound very similar inmany areas of our lives.
I didn't realize how much weactually had in common.
My crunchy journey reallystarted with pregnancy as well,
and I had decided I was going todo a natural birth.
I would not have called myselfcrunchy in many regards.

(21:25):
I didn't even really know whatthat phrase was.
I, you know, I lived in Coloradoat the time, which I, I don't
know if I told you.
I think I did.
I moved to Michigan, so I livein Michigan now.
And not Colorado, but in,

of making that

Katie (21:38):
that's right.

like boxing things up and everything.

Katie (21:42):
Totally.
So in Colorado, the word crunchyusually was also like intermixed
with the word granola, whichtended to be more earthly
eco-friendly and stuff, whichcomes out of like Boulder.
So that was like myinterpretation of it.
So when I started hearing wordslike crunchy, I was like, no,
that's not me.

(22:03):
But then I started reallylearning more about it and I'm
like, oh yeah, no, a lot ofthese things do align with where
I'd like to go and, and thethings I wanna learn.
But are you a firstborn?

I, well, I'm a functional firstborn.
I'm nine years younger than mybrother, so the bro, I'm
functionally actually

Katie (22:18):
Got it?
Mm-hmm.

defining it, which is every seven years you
have a new, a new only.
So

Katie (22:25):
Yeah.
Okay.
That makes sense.

if you can believe it, Katie, but we're
really weird.

Katie (22:29):
Oh,

my brother's my full brother, nine years older
than my little sister wasadopted when I was 18.
So I've got a,

Katie (22:36):
oh, yeah.

baby, a little middle, a little only all mixed
together.
But yeah,

Katie (22:42):
Very fascinating.

the type A, I've got a lot of first born in
me and you'd think I was thefirst born until you see my
brother and then you're like,oh, he's the first Bornes
firstborn of

Katie (22:51):
Oh my gosh.
So yeah, my, so Christy and Iare both firstborns and hence we
both love figuring things outand learning all the things.
And when you were explaininglike

your

Katie (23:06):
husband being this like problem or puzzle that you have
to solve, that is a hundredpercent me.
And in fact, just this pastweek, I totally did the same
thing.
He had like this mysterious rashand I went through all the
things.
I was like, this is gonna solveit, and it didn't, and then this
is gonna solve it, and then itdidn't, and then this is gonna
solve it and it didn't.

(23:26):
And it was.

it

Katie (23:28):
ended up being our

laundry

Katie (23:30):
detergent that, oh, of course.
I tried to go the little crunchyroute and I made our own laundry
detergent, but it was too potentand it was irritating

Oh, the

Katie (23:40):
him.
And so he was getting, yeah, hewas getting some, uh, underarm
like rashes.
So it was like

all

Katie (23:48):
my other, like oils and lotiony things and all these
things.
Nothing was working and it wasjust as simple as

changing

Katie (23:55):
that.
And, and we have, we have someother free and clear stuff that
I'm like, let's see if this willdo it.

And

Katie (24:01):
sure enough,

but I'm

Katie (24:03):
in that same space where I love having a puzzle to solve.
I, I love puzzles so much, andso I often see people as a
puzzle to solve, and I see myproblems as just like this
puzzle to solve with some healthsomething.
And I, yeah, I often go down theroute of like, oh, let's go to
the chiropractor.

(24:24):
Oh, let's, you know, consideracupuncture here, or let's see
what oil fixes this.
So

it,

Katie (24:30):
it really can be overwhelming.
Especially too, like you said,there are so many people who
specialize in these areas andthey're like, This is going to
be the thing that will solveyour problem.
And you try that thing and itmaybe it helps.
Like we, we tried a essentialoil, coconut oil mixture and
he's, and he's like, yeah, it'skind of helping relieve the

(24:52):
itchiness and some of thetenderness.
But the rash was still there fora couple days.
So then we tried something elseand then we tried, you know, so,
oh, actually I think you werethe one who told me about, uh, a
little bit more abouthomeopathy, or you had someone
on your podcast who talked abouthomeopathy.
I listened to that podcastepisode of yours.

(25:13):
And so we've actually done somehomeopathic remedies for certain
things that have definitelyhelped

with

Katie (25:20):
certain ailments.
Um.

And

Katie (25:22):
So I, again, same thing.
I was like, I'm gonna look upwhich homeopathic remedy is
gonna fix it.
And the one that I ended upgoing with didn't really seem
like it did the job.
And

anyway,

Katie (25:32):
it, I totally understand that, and I feel like there are
so many people that do kind ofsay the same thing to me where
they're like, oh yeah, I thoughtthis one solution would be it,
but it didn't help.
Or maybe it only helped a littlebit and so they had to go onto
the next thing.
So yeah, it's, it's all veryoverwhelming.

It can be.
And, and that's why I love tostart with Jesus, right?
To really

Katie (25:59):
Hmm.

with the father and that place of intimacy,
because it's all, it's all true,right?
So there's the place of like,let's not be too quick to jump
to the next thing.
Are we operating out of a senseof fear?
But then there's also this placeof stewardship of like, let's
move our feet.
You know?
And I love the phrase, none ofit is wasted, right?
And the father, none of it iswasted.
And so when we, you know, whenwe spent$20,000 on a

(26:21):
chiropractor and it didn't doanything for us, well, part of
that was part of my lesson to,and I can't say it didn't do
anything.
Sometimes how do you know,especially with kids, because
they're always developing.
So

Katie (26:33):
Oh, totally.

where would they have been without this, I
don't know.
How do you

Katie (26:37):
Mm-hmm.

'cause you can only walk down one path at a
time.
You can't live in both worlds.
And so, you know, was part ofthat just our, um, lesson
learned, which we could absorbat the time because we were, you
know, we were earning a decentincome, um, a really good
income.
And so now that's a piece of mystory.
And so if that's what it took,okay.

(26:59):
Right.
So that now we don't make thosechoices.
So, um, so kind of freely and,you know, the other thing that's
so beautiful about being a childof God is, um, a.
So a friend of mine would sharethese wonderful stories of,
yeah, I walked into Goodwill andhere's this amazing pot that
like costs 80 bucks most of thetime and it was$2.

(27:20):
And like, God just loves me somuch.
And I was like, God, like I wanta$2 pot.
he was like, Anna, you A, youdon't need one'cause you can
afford the$80 pot.
And B, you don't stop and giveme a chance to give you the$2
pot'cause you're on Amazonwithin 30 seconds.
And so we really need that likemoment to sit and wait and just

(27:43):
say, okay, you going to correctthis Because he knows our
budget, he knows our bandwidthand our abilities.
I mean we're actually healthiernow than we've ever been.
And we're spending money onless, like almost nothing.
'cause I kind of went to this,and I'll touch on this briefly

(28:03):
too.
We went to this, um, kind ofground zero place where for a
while I was representing asupplement company.
And then I was like, it reallydidn't, it was good, but was it
the best for everybody or werepeople buying it because of me
was it their

Katie (28:20):
Yeah.
Wow.

And so that was really humbling for me to sit
and go, okay, I'm not offeringanything to anybody.
And this is actually thebeginning of my decision to lay
down all the businesses.
Um, but I think, you know,really brought a conviction to
me of I'm not comfortablerepresenting something because
there will be people who willbuy it because they, they care
about me, they like me, andmaybe it's not their best,
especially for people who arereally relational.

(28:42):
And so we went to ground zeroand bought nothing, and I was
like, why don't I use up allthis stuff that's in our house?
And so I'm like, oh look, we'vegot a multivitamin.
We'll take that for a while and.
I don't know whether it's just,the Lord knows right now with me
not working, that we don't havethe financial means to be
spending, spending, spending,spending.
And so he's just tending to ourhealth in, in a, honestly, in a

(29:05):
supernatural way.
Right.
I don't know whether, whetherit's because we're operating in
more peace and less fear, and sothat's actually our nervous
system from getting hijacked andus getting sick.
is it that, you know, now wemaybe didn't need some of those
things to begin with and we, itwas just white noise in the
background.
I don't know.
But that's why it, I mean, it'slike I said, some, some of, some

(29:28):
of your listeners, like friend,if you're hearing this and
you're like, just gimme ananswer, go to the father.
That's what I have.
'cause it's all true.

Katie (29:39):
Yeah, and I completely agree because, oh, there are so
many moments that I haveexperienced as well where I will
question

everything I'm

Katie (29:54):
I'm doing, especially too when I come across a piece of
information

that

Katie (29:59):
almost contradicts something somebody else told me,
and I'm like, wait a minute nowI'm so confused because

this

Katie (30:07):
person said that this was the right path and, and this is
going to

be

Katie (30:11):
be the solution.
But now

this

Katie (30:14):
person is kind of saying something slightly different and

It's

Katie (30:19):
again, it, it just gets so clouded and you have to
wonder like, what is the truth?
And there are so many momentswhere I have to pause and just
put.

everything

Katie (30:29):
aside.
And what, what actually worksbest for me is

turning

Katie (30:34):
off social media, deleting it from my phone,
because that's often where allthe confusion comes from is
like, someone said this, butnext, the, the real right after
that says another thing.
And then this person says thatthis thing is now toxic and it's
killing all of us.
And it's all the, and there's alot of fear that people are
pumping out and often they'reselling something.

(30:57):
So I get very, I can get veryoverwhelmed many times.
And so for me, the best thing todo is really just to turn it all
off,

Yep.

Katie (31:05):
get into the word.
I mean, honestly, even justplaying worship music to kind of
recenter my heart is so.
Helpful and so beneficial.
And honestly, it makes me abetter wife and mother at the
same time because a lot of thatoverwhelm

tends

Katie (31:23):
to get pushed out and portrayed to other people that
don't necessarily deserve it.
So, uh, I So what,

Is

Katie (31:34):
there something that you can recommend to us?

So.

Katie (31:38):
So, yes, the first place that we need to go is to the
father and spending time withhim and in prayer and, and
letting him.
Lead and guide us

yeah.
With

Katie (31:49):
wisdom into the right direction.

Yeah.

Katie (31:52):
Is there maybe a next

right

Katie (31:55):
step or piece of

like a, that

Katie (31:58):
a tip that you would give us to kind of like

make

Katie (32:00):
that decision

so

Katie (32:02):
that maybe people might be able to avoid kind of having
your chiropractic moment wherethey're like, I'm gonna pour in
all this money to this place andmaybe it's the right place or
not.
Like how do we then make thatdecision or distinction with
what thing to choose next?

so, so I'll preface that by saying, first of
all, I think that there's a,there's, there's a trap that we
can fall into that's helpful tojust be aware of on the front
end, which is there is, um,there's this sense in really
all.
All paths, even in the.
Path of faith or the path of,um, you know, homeschooling our

(32:45):
children and then of course forthe path of the, of this crunchy
walk, that it's all linear.
There is a right step, there isa right path.
And so we can end up gettinglike, well, which is it?

Katie (32:57):
Mm-hmm.

one.
And even in the food arena,we've got our, um, our, our
functional medicine support.
Basically our doctor, um,

Katie (33:05):
Mm-hmm.

encouraging us to do whole food plant-based.
And then our, um, our gymmembership is really encouraging
us to do paleo, which isbasically like meat.
And so literally the two cannotboth be.

Katie (33:19):
Totally.

They,

Katie (33:21):
Mm-hmm.

be the right path for us.
But the important thing torecognize is that, um, there,
there isn't one universal rightpath.
And that's okay.
So it real, that's why, that'swhy I say it all comes back to
the father.
And so recognizing, um, I viewmy podcast, for example, as more
of a sampler platter of ideasbecause if you listen to the

(33:43):
whole two years, even my ownrecommendations would change
over time.
Where it's like, oh, I thoughtshe said this, I thought she
said this.

Katie (33:50):
Yeah.

and many of them, they, they can all
coexist, but it's just where dowe go first?
You know, do I sit back and waitfor the father to lead?
Do I take action?
don't know.
on what's your, what's yourtendency?
Is it more courageous for you tosit and be, or is it more
courageous?
Does it require more faith foryou to sit and abide for a

(34:12):
little bit and be willing to layit down?
Does it take more courage andfaith for you to take action?
You know, and that's

Katie (34:18):
Wow.

the, so then we're digging into those types
of questions.
And so, um, I think it'simportant to remember there is
not one known truth aroundhealth that you need to ferret
out.
Okay?
There are many.
Good tools and which one youneed is something that

(34:39):
ultimately only God himselfknows and can reveal to you.
Because everybody's gonna say,you start with the nervous
system, you start with sleep,you start with hydration, blah,
blah, blah, blah.
So there's that.
Okay.
So that's the first thing I'dsay.
Just keep that premise in mindat all times, because otherwise
you are going to go all in onthe next best tool.

(35:01):
And it can, it can be veryexpensive and very time
consuming.
um, and can have, like youtalked about, Katie, relational
implications, especially if you

Katie (35:12):
Mm-hmm.

usually it's the wife because we are the
detail, God

Katie (35:18):
Mm-hmm.

see the details.
And, um, I love an old pastor ofmine described it as, um, I set,
it's like a football game.
So of course it was a footballanalogy, right?
And he said, I set theboundaries of play then my wife
calls the calls, the plays fromthere.
So she's the creative, right?
She's creating, here's how we'remaking memories, here are our
traditions, here's how we doschool, here's what we do during

(35:40):
mealtime.
And then, um, and then the, thehusband provides a ton of
freedom for the wife to do that.
Um, but then he sets the fieldof play like, here's our budget,
you know, here's how much I'mwilling to give to the crunchy
endeavors.
And then you pick what's next,babe, right?
And so having that sense ofpartnership is I think, really
healthy from there.

(36:02):
The first thing I would do isfill your cup with all the free
stuff.
So

Katie (36:08):
Yes.

are you in prayer?
Are you walk?
Are you living in gratitude,like one of the most, um.
One of the strongestcorrelations for health is
what's going on between our earsin our, in our own mind.
If we're negative, if we'refearful, if we're anxious, if
we're condemning, if we'reungrateful, we are going to be

(36:30):
sicker then if we are gratefulat ease at rest and we can't
force that, but we know what thesource is, right, right back to
the father.
So, you know, I literally will,while just kind of when I'm
feeling a certain kind of way,I'll just play worship music and
just imagine it kind of fillingour home and kind of pushing

(36:51):
out.
One of the things we learn inhomeschool is that air takes up
space.
And so I imagine that worshipmusic pushing out all the fear,
all the anxiety, and taking up a

Katie (37:00):
I love that.

isn't that sweet.
All the

Katie (37:03):
That's so cute.

get and so all the free stuff.
And so here's a, here's a few, alist of a few things that are
free.
So praise and worship, you know,really being in the word
memorizing scripture.
Um, there's a great theologian,Derek Prince, he died I think 20
years ago.
He was sick in the hospital.
I think it was while he was in.
Um, he was, uh, in the military.

(37:26):
I think he was in the Britishmilitary.
And he read the, I think it wasin the Psalms that says, um,
your word is my medicine.
And so he is like, how do youtake medicine?
Because he was sick at the time.
How do you take medicine threetimes a day with meals?
So three times a day he would,um, read the word as medicine
and he was healed.
And so, um, so you know, are wein the word?

(37:49):
And then how's our sleep?
Are we getting, you know, sevenplus hours a night?
How's our hydration?
Are we drinking?
Most people say half your bodyweight and water.
Uh, maybe electrolytes wouldserve as well.
right?
Epsom salt

Katie (38:04):
Hmm.

are great little detox tools.
That's not free, but it's prettydarn cheap.
Um, grounding.
Get your toes in the grass, get

Katie (38:12):
Yeah.

turned up to the sun.
Uh, personally, my my belief isthat the things God made are
good.
And so I'm, I'm down withsunshine, you know, maybe I'm

Katie (38:21):
Yeah.

all day, but I, I don't, I don't wear sunscreen.
I just watch when I'm out.
Um, and that's, that's not a,here's what you should do, but
I'm just saying, I get the realsun.
I

Katie (38:30):
Mm-hmm.

the real

Katie (38:31):
Mm-hmm.

roll up my sleeves, get my feet without
socks, without shoes, withoutanything that's, that's, uh, not
natural between me and theground.
And, um, and really get that,get that exposure.
There's something that's like,it literally resets our, ah,
what is it?
Some sort of magnetic, there'slike a magnetic

Katie (38:50):
Yes.

Yeah.
So I

Katie (38:51):
Yes.

I don't know.
So, um.
Touch.
Are you getting hugs?
Are you getting laughter?
Connection, right?
Like, think

Katie (39:01):
Yeah.

all the free things the Lord has given us,
nourishing our minds.
Have you picked up a booklately?
Um, you know, even just openingthe windows while you're at
home.
Um, breathing is a powerful one.
My, uh, the coach that I workedwith for a number of months, he
would have me breathe in throughthe nose and out through the
mouth with a ha.

(39:22):
And I mean, just one breath, Ifeel better.
Um, so what.

Katie (39:26):
Yeah,

then get nerdy about it.
What else can I, what else can Ibring into our home that's free,
right?
How else can I minister to myfamily music, right?
There's, there's this reallycool stuff about the frequencies
of like classical music andworship music in comparison.

Katie (39:44):
just reading that.
Yeah.

Yeah.
So get nerdy and just see Lord,because, and I'm not, it's not
all about the money.
There is a time and a place forinvesting in something there's a
lot out there that is just rightthere for you.
So that's, that's my fir that'sthe first step that I would

(40:08):
suggest.
And you know, I mean, one of mymaladies, my itchiness was
healed through free stuff, napsand connection and breathing and
rest.
And so grab hold of as much ofthat as you possibly can.
If, if money's not a concern.
If you're on the same page withyour partner, one of the things
that I talk about and you cangrab, I have a podcast episode

(40:30):
called Hierarchy of Covenants inoverwhelm to overcomer, one of
the way early ones in 2024,probably in the spring.
Um, of the things the Lord gaveme that's been very helpful is
this idea of what our order of,um, relational like hierarchy.
I like basically what do we putfirst and so first our

(40:52):
relationship with God.
Then if we're married, it's ourrelationship with our spouse.
Then if we have children, it'sour relationship with our
children and then it's everyoneelse.
So I.
So being mindful of what, whatis my husband's conviction on
all of this?
Is he setting the field of playof like,'cause if there's any
sort of tension and conflict, itmight be that you just need to
set a number.

(41:12):
'cause he's gonna look at thebig, big picture and see the
money going out the door and belike nervous about it.
So if there, so it might be thatjust setting a boundary is gonna
set things at ease.
Like, Hey, I'm still workingthis out.
I don't know what's gonna be themost beneficial for us or not.
Can we, do we have$200 a month,$50 a month of room for me to
start playing with organic foodsor supplements or electrolytes

(41:36):
or you know, chiropractic careor whatever it is.
Set the number.
And that's going to really helpyou guys feel aligned so that
you feel like you're walkingtogether as a team where he's
not seeing like, okay, and nowwe're getting, again, my husband
would say things like.
What are we getting now?
Like there's another package,there's another company you just
talked to this late.
I mean, I try, I the, I knowwhat I'm talking about.

(41:59):
'cause we spent 14 years with mespending all the money on all
the things.
And I was sure this next one wasgonna really make a difference.
Right?

Katie (42:07):
Oh.

Always.
It's always gonna make adifference.
And what helped us the most wasfor us to decide, okay, it's
never gonna be more than thisevery month.
And maybe sometimes we'llallocate it here and maybe
sometimes we'll allocate itthere.
And that's just our health andwellbeing budget, what we're
willing to spend.
So that gives you the freedom toplay and nerd out and watch the

(42:28):
reels and see the YouTube videosand talk to the friend who
swears this thing has changedher life.
'cause the thing is just be,yeah, it has, she's not lying.
But keep in mind, just'cause itchanged her life doesn't mean
that's, it's your next thing.
Right.
I can't tell you

Katie (42:42):
Yeah.

times the symptoms someone described lined
up with exactly what someone inour family was dealing with.
And the very same tool that didthe trick for them did not work
for us.
And that's okay.
Like it

Katie (42:55):
Yeah.

right?
So, um, so that's what I wouldsay is like first.
Jesus.
Right.
Really make sure thatrelationship is strong, because
that is source for everything.
Because if you don't have thatgood if you're not deeply
connected to the vine, then thefruit's just gonna not be that
great.
It's just, it's how it works inthe kingdom.

(43:18):
And just a little side note, ifyou're looking for something
that's gonna help spur this on,my favorite, favorite book
that's not the, that's not theScriptures, is, um, the True
Vine by Andrew Murray, which isa deep dive on John 15.
How it is, how, how we can livea branch life.
This, and this is, and I neverthought about this until this

(43:39):
year.
It's the

Katie (43:40):
Oh

it's one of the last things that Jesus said to
his disciples before thecrucifixion.
And so you think about likesomeone's last words,

Katie (43:47):
yeah.
Yeah.

was his message.
Connect, with us.

Katie (43:53):
Wow.

Uh huh.
So it's verse by verse 31,chapters are all three pages
long, and it's one

Katie (44:00):
Wow.

digest and marinate on.
So

Katie (44:05):
that.
I wanna add that to my list.

list.
Yeah.
So did I

Katie (44:08):
I love books.

doing my first born linear thing, so, okay.
So we're gonna get close to thefather, we're gonna do the free
stuff.
We're gonna make sure that we'rein unity with our husband if we
have one, really get clear on,okay, much are we willing to put
towards this stewardship?
You know, it's, it's a, it's anelement of stewardship, it's

(44:31):
just one.
Okay.
the next thing I'd say fromthere is once you've got those
foundation pieces in place, thenI'd be looking out and I'd be
going, okay, what is our bestbang for our buck?
Really look, just take a minuteand get clear before the father.
Okay, here are all the membersof our family.

(44:51):
What am I noticing?
Where they need some support andwhat's, what's the, is there
some sort of like underlyingthing that resonates with
everybody?
Is there some sort, you know,for example, if there's a lot of
hyperactivity going on, thenokay, how are we doing on sleep?
How are we doing on lighting?
Do we have like a lot of reallyharsh UV blue lights?

(45:13):
Or do we have softer light?
How are we doing on exercise andtime outside connection as a
family?
How are we doing on food dies?
All of the, and just start tonotice.
Okay, hyperactivity seems to bethe big thing.
What it, what is the, what's,what would most powerfully move
the needle?
Because when you start talkingabout hyperactivity, well, it's

(45:33):
essential oils and it's spinal,you know, it's chiropractic care
and adjustments and it'sgrounding and

Katie (45:38):
Yeah.

know, and it's like big gross motor activities
and it's homeschooling, youknow, you to, there are so many
directions that you could go

Katie (45:46):
Mm-hmm.

so what is it?
You know, it might just be,maybe we start by changing our
evening routine, right?
Okay.
Maybe there's an Epsom salt bathfor everybody in the evening.
Maybe there's like quiet readingtime instead of TV time.
Maybe the screens go off at fouro'clock.
There's so much you can do.
But do you, I don't know if youguys can hear in my voice, it's

(46:08):
like there's this sense of calmwhere it's like, huh, we're not
in a hurry.
Like God's a generational Godfriend.
You don't have to fix it allright now.
Like you just don't.
You don't have to fix it allright now, because there's some
parts of this torch that yourchildren are gonna carry instead
of you.
And that's okay.
my, uh, my jaw's all jacked up.

(46:29):
It pops every time I open mymouth more than a little bit.
And my mom actually tried tohelp get it fixed and it ended
up making it worse.
'cause the dentist had some,like, new conference he'd gone
to.
He's like, this is the, this isthe thing.
And so she spent all the moneyon the thing.
And now my jaw's worse than itwas before.
And, um, you know, I know thatit's there, it's okay.
You know, maybe we'll fix itsomeday.

(46:49):
Maybe we won't.
But there's bigger fish to fryin this season and a smaller
budget.
And so, um, it, we don't have tobe afraid.
Like we know where we're goingand we're going to be limited in
this life.
There's gonna be some thingsthat get fixed and some things
that maybe don't.
But the question is, Lord, what,what's the next step so that I
can serve you faithfully?

(47:10):
What does stewardship look likefor my people right now?
And then you do just one thingat a time, just one.

Katie (47:17):
Um, I actually really like that, and the idea of being
able to let go of.
Doing all the things, becausethat's one of the challenges
that I often face is, yeah,wanting to do it all, but just
trusting that the things that Iam acting on, that God will show

(47:38):
up in those.
And I actually, I love what yousaid, uh, a while ago in our
conversation of having

the

Katie (47:45):
courage to not

do

Katie (47:49):
something.
Like, is it more courageous foryou to act or to just sit back
and wait?
Because for me, I am definitelya doer.
I, I, again, like want to fixthings and solve them.
And if I can find something thatI think will solve the problem,
I will almost always try it.
But I really, it does take a lotmore faith and a lot more

(48:12):
courage for me to.
Just wait and to pause.
And our journey to gettingpregnant with Malachi was pretty
much that was, I saw ourinfertility as another puzzle.

and

Katie (48:29):
for several years I tried lots of different things.

There were

Katie (48:33):
were many things that I was not willing to try and

was

Katie (48:36):
like,

once I

Katie (48:38):
I kind of hit that wall where the, the only next thing I
could do were all the thingsthat I didn't want to do, then I
was like, I, I have nowhere elseto go, but to just wait on the
Lord.
And so God brought me to a pointwhere I needed to stop and I
needed to just trust.

Um,

Katie (48:55):
that was so hard for me.
And looking back on it, did I dothat?
Well, probably not,

No.

Katie (49:00):
but I, my husband would probably say no.
If we were being honest, and Iwas, I was pretty like, honest
with it too, that I'm like, Ijust don't think that God wants
us to have children this way.
And,

and I

Katie (49:12):
I, and I kind of came to terms with that and I was like,
I'm okay with that.
Like, God, if that's just notour path,

Fine,

Katie (49:18):
whatever.
And it was kind of like a fine,if you're not gonna give it to
me, I'm just going to be okaywith it.
And I, and it wasn't, you know,I didn't, I wasn't mad at him
necessarily at that point.
I, I did go through periods offrustration and anger towards
God and towards myself and toeveryone.

But

Katie (49:36):
it finally was the moment where I kind of totally laid it
down

at the

Katie (49:42):
the foot of the cross and said.

this

Katie (49:45):
is not something that I can control.
God is the giver and the takerof life, and if he wants us to
have children, he will make ithappen.
And it was literally a couplemonths after that that we got
pregnant and it was after threeyears, I mean three years

Of

Katie (50:02):
actively trying to get pregnant and doing all the
things.
It was finally the moment where.
I gave in and I said, okay, thisis not something I can control.
And there have been so manymoments like that in my life

That

Katie (50:19):
that's just like the biggest and most obvious one to
me.
But there have been so manysmall moments where I put stuff
aside.

my

Katie (50:26):
businesses were like o like oftentimes one of those
moments too of like,

I

Katie (50:31):
would go, go, go and be into that whole hustle mentality

and

Katie (50:36):
not seeing a lot of results.

But then

Katie (50:38):
then the moment that I would step aside and be like,
okay, I just need to take aSabbath from all this and just
really rest and

stop it.

Katie (50:48):
like really, like, just stop.
Like those were the momentswhere

God

Katie (50:52):
would all of a sudden provide

people and

Katie (50:54):
and clients and sales and all the things that I'm like,
I'm, I haven't done anything in,in several days.
Or even like there'd be timeswhere it'd be like months where
I'm like, I just need to notfocus on this so heavily.
It's, it's so beautiful how Godreally does want our hearts.
Like he, that's really what he'safter.
And you're right, the wholehealth and wellness space, it is

(51:19):
something that we need tosteward well, but we also need
to make sure we're not making itan idol.

Mm-hmm.

Katie (51:26):
And for me, that is

very

Katie (51:28):
easily one of those places that God is, is
constantly re correcting myheart to make sure that I'm not
focused

on,

Katie (51:36):
on health and wellness and all the things being the
thing that's going to sink me orheal me And,

Well you

Katie (51:43):
yeah.

up such a good point too, I think, Katie,
because, um, oftentimes there'sa root underlying the striving
or fear or whatever.
And so, you know, just like youwere talking about of like, when
we, when we get to the pointwhere there's nothing else left
to try, then that's where wehave to come face to face with
the emotions of grief.

(52:04):
You know, like, what if wearen't gonna have another baby?
Like, what if this is it?
And that's, I mean, when we'restill in motion, it's not hope.
It's kind of like manufacturedhope of like, it's strategy
really, of like, and control,oh, I'll do this, I'll do this,
I'll do this, I'll do, I'll dothis.
You know, and you're chasingdown these rabbit trails that
someone else is saying could,could be the answer.

(52:25):
And ul and ultimately what we'remissing is the answer, which is
to look full on his wonderfulface and say.
I'm willing for this.
my very small version of that isI'm, I'm back in my story of
like, I'm willing to be itchy,right?
I'm willing to itch, right?
But all but how much moredifficult, I'm willing lay down
the hope of another child in ourfamily.

(52:48):
I've already gone down this pathfor three years.
People know we want this.
It's embarrassing, it's painful,it's brutal.
And my, my version of that and,you know, we live lives that,
that are fallen.
You know, we, and and that's a,it can be a really big deal at
times.
And so for me, a part of mystory is my dad was, um,

(53:10):
diagnosed with, with a veryrare, and at the time, 100%
fatal form of cancer when I wasyears old.
He was put on a clinical trialand he was paralyzed by the
effects of the chemotherapy.
'cause it was, you know, kind ofa, a little bit of a like, let's
throw it in the wall and seewhat happens.
so, um, I married a man.

(53:32):
My husband's 14 years older thanI am, and so when he, when he,
my dad was 50 when all thishappened, and I didn't realize
it at first, but when my husbandstarted, when the clock ticked
over from 49 to 50, I'd alreadybeen living in a lot of fear as
far as his health was concerned.
But we went to next level, andif he didn't call me or check in

(53:53):
with me or get home, by the timehe said he would, he was dead in
a ditch somewhere.
And in my brain, I hadcorrelated, you know, this
basically if, if he's not okay,I'm not okay, so I've gotta make
sure he's okay.
And I, I almost couldn't fathoma husband that was well at 50
because it felt so traumaticwhat had happened with my dad.

(54:15):
And so part of this journey ofmoving into we're gonna do
what's free, we're gonna be slowto move forward, we're really
gonna trust the father.
It's easy for me to say now, butthis was a hard, it was a hard
road, and it might be that youfriend are finding the same,
that it's really hard to laydown that striving because

(54:37):
there's a reason we strive, andultimately it's because we
aren't fully trusting and we'reafraid of what might happen.
if I lay this down, if I stopscrambling to try to fix the
inflammation and fix the jointsand fix the weight, and fix the
high blood pressure, and fix allof those things, if I stop
trying to fix it, then I couldlose him.
if I lost him while striving,then yeah, our marriage might

(54:59):
not be as happy as it could be,but at least I'll know I did
everything I could, right?
And so for me to go, okay, iscausing conflict.
He's stressed about the expense.
He's stressed about this longlist of things he's supposed to
do.
He's healthier now.
Actually, now that I'm notpushing, there's still a list of
things I look at.
I'm like, oh, I would love tosee some of these things shift.

(55:21):
see you feel better.
I've learned to be a little bitmore open-handed, but came
coming face to face.
I remember my dad asking me atone point, he's like, and what
if you lose him at 52?
Anna?
do you really want this to beyour marriage where you're
harping at him all the time?
And like kind of, you know,elbowing him when he grabs a
second, you know, cookie fromthe buffet or whatever.

(55:43):
Is that what you want for yourmarriage if you only get him
for, you know, these, whateverit would've been at the time,
you know, 13 years or whatnot.
Um, and I had to face that fullon and go, okay, I'm willing to
be a better wife, even if thatmeans opening up my hands and
saying, Lord, do your will.

Katie (56:00):
Yeah, that,

Right.

Katie (56:05):
that hits hard.
I mean, I've had my own momentswhere I've had to just kinda
give people over to the Lord andjust and, and save.
Yeah.
It is your will God and

the

Katie (56:21):
The thing I've always had to tell myself or like I
actually had to proclaim it outout loud.
Um, I don't know if we ever gotinto Malachi's birth story, but
um, he had a lot ofcomplications at birth and was
hospitalized.
Both of us actually werehospitalized

for

Katie (56:40):
about a month,

And

Katie (56:42):
I did, I had to have some moments of just coming to the
Lord and saying, if this doesn'tturn out the way that I want it
to, I will still praise yourname.
Like you are still good.
And I remember saying that outloud and praying it out loud
with our pastor and our parentsand And now here he is like

(57:04):
crying in the background and I'mlike praising God every moment
that.

It

Katie (57:08):
was his will at that moment to keep him and to keep
me around.
And I, I am so thankful that Iget to be his mother every
single day.
Um, but I still hold fast tothat.
If

it

Katie (57:20):
didn't turn out this way, God is still good.
I still trust him.
Um, it probably would've beenvery hard after that for me to

get

Katie (57:30):
back to a place of just joyfully praising God.
You know, I think there's a, alittle bit of a difference of
praising God in, in the midst ofpain and sorrow and loss, and
still proclaiming truth.

but

Katie (57:46):
Sometimes it's not as joyful as we would like it to
be.
Um, and I think that he stillsees that and recognizes it
because you think about Jesusthe night before he was going to
be crucified, he was weeping inthe garden, asking God to take

the

Katie (58:02):
cup away from him, like what he had to go and do to, you
know, sacrifice himself on thecross.
He didn't want to have to do it.
And he was so sorrowful overthat, but yet

still

Katie (58:17):
saying, your will be done, Lord, not mine.
And

That is

Katie (58:23):
is,

something that,

Katie (58:25):
that that is just a very true form of worship to come to
God saying

through

Katie (58:30):
tears, I trust you.
You are still good and I wantyour will to be done because we
know that his will is ultimatelythe best for us.
Um, and that.
Comes down to all thesedecisions with health and
relationships and our finances

and

Katie (58:47):
that we can only do so much.
But if we continue to put thatstriving ahead of just trusting
God,

then

Katie (58:56):
we're kind of missing the point of the works in the first
place because the works, likeyou said, are not the thing that
it's going to save us.
They are just the thing thatcome

after

Katie (59:06):
recognizing God's faithfulness and provision in
our lives.
And so we need to

have

Katie (59:13):
that properly ordered in our hearts.
Um, but it's not, it's easier,easier said than done.

that's right.
And it's, it's a lifetimejourney.
And so wherever, wherever weare, it's all about being more
faithful in the next step.
And you know, I think one thingyou said, Katie, that I think is
worth just really like.
Touching on really quickly, andI know we've gone a lot of
different places, but, um, whenyou were talking about just
that, like there's, there arepoints in scripture where it's

(59:42):
called a sacrifice of praise,that we offer a sacrifice of
praise.
And that, that it really is,it's an act of will to choose
and say, I'm willing to lay thisdown.
And the beautiful thing issometimes, many times we get to
take it back up again, but it'sjust like Abraham with Isaac of
like, are you willing to layyour one and only son on the

(01:00:02):
funeral, the funeral beer as asacrifice?
And then only then does the ramappear.
Right?
then there's still this place.
I just wonder,'cause when youtalked about just the anguish of
Christ in the, in the garden inHebrews, I, I looked it up real
quick.
Um, I was like, there'ssomething about joy and laying

(01:00:23):
down his life.
And so Hebrews 12 says, um.
I, I'm gonna read, I'm gonnaread a few verses because the
lead in is so powerful with whatwe're talking about.
Therefore, since we aresurrounded by such a great cloud
of witnesses, let us, this isour invitation right now.
Let us throw off everything thathinders and the sin that so
easily entangles and let us runwith perseverance the race

(01:00:47):
marked out for us.
Let us be faithful stewards,right?
Fixing our eyes on Jesus, thepioneer and perfecter of our
faith.
I think it's elsewhere calledthe author and perfecter of our
faith.
then it says this, for the joyset before him, he endured the
cross scorning at shame and satdown at the right hand of the
throne of God is effectively hestepped into his full authority.

(01:01:10):
Okay?
Consider him who endured suchopposition from sinners so that
you will not grow weary and loseheart.
So even in the midst of thislaying down, costly as it is to
say, I'm willing to not strive.
I'm willing to lay down the,this sense of like, I can, I, I

(01:01:31):
will, we'll get this figured outand sit for a minute and go,
even if, if this thing's neverfixed, even if I, even if I live
the rest of my life with thischallenge, even if we never
figure out what's going on, likewe've got a, we've got a,
something with one of our kidsthat after 10 years we still
don't know what it is and itkeeps cropping up and causing

(01:01:52):
problems for her.
We don't know.
if we never know, we can stilloperate from a place of joy.
It doesn't mean we're happy thatit happened, but we've got this
sense of it.
The joy set before him, hewasn't happy about the cross.
He wasn't joy.
He's joyful in all things.
So I don't know.
Theologically, what I, what Ican say

Katie (01:02:14):
Yeah.

Anna McLaughlin (01:02:15):
him, it was like

Katie (01:02:16):
Uhhuh.

what was, he knew what it was for

Katie (01:02:20):
Mm-hmm.

to glorify God, which ultimately.

Katie (01:02:25):
but like you were saying, yeah, I don't think it, it
wasn't easy necessarily for himbecause

sweat

Katie (01:02:30):
that anguish that we read about.
Yeah.
The sweating of blood.
Like, I can't even imaginegetting to a point where you
have.

like

Katie (01:02:38):
that,

that

Katie (01:02:39):
anguish of like, I know this needs to be done, but this
is so hard, like this,

this

Katie (01:02:45):
act, I, and I think there's so many areas of our
lives where we, we get toexperience a tiny bit of that,
of like,

this is

Katie (01:02:52):
is really hard, but I know it is for the good of our
family or for the good of

the

Katie (01:02:56):
kids learning, you know, discipline is a really easy
example of like, this is noteasy to discipline you,

Yeah.
But

Katie (01:03:02):
I know it is for your good.
And it's just one of those smallways that we get to experience a
little bit

of

Katie (01:03:09):
what Jesus did.
And it gives us that posture ofgetting to be very thankful and
grateful that he did what he didfor us.
Because even just the act ofdisciplining is so hard
sometimes for me that I'm like,oh my gosh.
And that was so much worse, uh,for you.
So much harder and morechallenging for you to go to the
cross for us.

(01:03:29):
So, but it's so beautiful.
It is so beautiful.
And.
An amazing reminder, um, as wedo face our own challenges
within our health and familiesand

with

Katie (01:03:41):
our finances, that

he

Katie (01:03:43):
has overcome

all of

Katie (01:03:45):
of these challenges.
He has already defeated all ofthe problems we have faced that
we will face, that we are facingcurrently.
Um, and that eventually we willbe restored completely and fully
to the original design that hehad for us.
Because all these challengesthat we face with our health
and, and, and in all these areasof life

stem

Katie (01:04:08):
from the fact that we are fallen and we are sinful.
And it is just, that's just ourreality.
It's not, we're not going to beable to fix it all.
And I'm, I'm saying this tomyself too, like, I'm not gonna
be able to fix it all and I haveto be okay with that and trust
God because he already knows

the

Katie (01:04:25):
result of all of this.
Um, and that we.
We will be restored, we will bereconciled.
Um, and yeah, it's, I justpraise God for that.

I know, right?
What, what, what a promise.
And I love, I love the phraseLi, or I love the word limited.
We're limited.
And I feel like that thatcaptures so much where it's just
like, not ever going to all beresolved in this life, but it
will be in the next one.
there is nothing.
There's absolutely nothing thatneed keep us from fulfilling the

(01:05:02):
work that he has called us to doto glorify his name.
that may mean that we're gonnado it while we're hurting, or
that may mean that he'll healthat hurt and glorify his name
that way.
But it's the same answer nomatter what our work is to
glorify God and to enjoy himforever Hard.

(01:05:22):
Sometimes we'll do that from aplace of deficit and other times
we'll do that from a place offullness and maybe a miracle did
it, or maybe this supplement orthat supplement did it.
Um, but may we be humble enoughto recognize that ultimately
he's the author of the wholething.

Katie (01:05:36):
Amen.
Oh.

Anna,

Katie (01:05:40):
I really enjoyed having you on and having this
conversation.

too.

Katie (01:05:44):
I thank you all for bearing with us while Malachi
hangs

out

Katie (01:05:50):
with us in this conversation.
And

I, I

Katie (01:05:55):
love doing things messy because I think that it is

just a

Katie (01:05:59):
a beautiful representation again, of, of the
way that, that God dideverything.
It's like the, you know, it'sjust he came into our messes and
he showed up and yeah.

I

Katie (01:06:11):
am very thankful that he is here with us.
Right buddy?

I know this was a treat for me to get to see the
little one.
My youngest is

Katie (01:06:18):
I know.

now.

Katie (01:06:20):
Wow.
Well, I've heard it goes fast.
Um, he is already 19 months, soI already feel like, oh my gosh.
And that's why

we're in

Katie (01:06:28):
in that stage where you're like, oh, I really have
to start thinking about howwe're gonna discipline and

figure

Katie (01:06:34):
out all these things because it's not as just easy as
like taking you away fromsomething all the time.
And we actually have to likestart to figure it all out.
And

So

Katie (01:06:44):
disciplining right now is on the top of my mind as far as
like those challenges that we'refacing and yeah.

You

Katie (01:06:51):
But

I ever got on that?

Katie (01:06:54):
yes.

Um, this was from an organization called
NACD, national Academy of ChildDevelopment that we worked with
for a number of years.
And, um, it talk and they havethis great, if you want a free
resource, that's epic forparenting.
It's called Miracles of ChildDevelopment.
And you can go to the NACD storeand get the audio file for free.
It's like a six hour longseminar by the head of the

(01:07:18):
organization, Robert Doman,D-O-M-A-N.
And it is like, it blew my mindwhen I heard it.
Just all, and of course, sixhours, it goes a lot of
different directions.
But one of the key things hesaid is that, um, anything is
learned by, um, frequencyintensity.
You want, you want highfrequency, so we're gonna repeat

(01:07:39):
this multiple times.
You want short duration and youwant high intensity.
So we're going to teach thingsin a, in really short bursts
with a lot of intensity.
And specifically in the realm ofdiscipline.
Whenever a child does anythingwe like, it's the biggest party
ever.
Especially if there's, ifthere's one thing, so for those

(01:08:00):
of you that are parents, ifthere's, if there's something in
particular that you're reallyworking on with your child,
like, um, you know, they thinkit's really fun to go off and
dump all the things out and makea big mess in the room, then,
you know, focus there.
Right?
And if they are currently notdumping things out in the room,
then it's, oh, I love howquietly you're playing.

(01:08:21):
You're doing such a wonderfuljob.
And then, you know, here's alittle token, or put a sticker
on the sticker chart way to go.
So proud of you.
And then if they are, um,currently doing something that
they're not supposed to do in acorrections needed, it's like.
an event at all, because weseek, especially children seek
stimulation.
And so if we yell and we scream,I can't believe you did that,

(01:08:44):
even though we think, wellthey've, we've, now we've really
shown'em that's bad.
It's like they, they're gonnaveer back into that space, uh,
because that was a highintensity response that they
got.
And so they're gonna be seekingthat.
So instead it's like, whoopsies,we dumped our toys out.
Let's clean'em up.
Oh, you're not willing to, okay,do you wanna clean'em up now or
do you wanna go sit in in thechair over there for a minute
until you're willing to cleanthem up?

(01:09:06):
totally unaffected.
And then we, and then as soon asthey're doing what we want,
you're cleaning up your toys.
You are such a big helper.
I'm so proud of how grown youare.
And it's just that constant highstimulation input of praise.
And then when there's somethingthat's wrong, there's absolutely
a correction.
And it's very clear what it is,but there's not any emotion

(01:09:27):
behind it that changed ourfamily

Katie (01:09:32):
I like that.
I've actually heard the neutraltone when like kind of giving a
discipline and Yeah, that's hardsometimes

It's

Katie (01:09:41):
when you're like, whatcha doing?

know.
Why would you do that?
Especially toddlers, man.
Because like permanent markerdrawn on the wall seems so fun,
right?

Katie (01:09:49):
My gosh.
Oh my gosh.
All the things.

Uhhuh?
Yeah.
And

Katie (01:09:52):
I will look that up.
I really like that.
I love that.
I've, I love all the resourcesand that kind of stuff, so I am
definitely gonna check that out.
Yes.
Oh, free things of the best.

the best.

Katie (01:10:04):
All right, Anna.
Well, thank you so much.
Um, we are all very grateful forall of your wisdom and your tips
and just reminding us to bringit all back to the Lord.
It's, it's just always such a, aneeded reminder.
And so I'm glad that we had thisconversation today, and I hope
that everybody else felt thatway.

Um,

Katie (01:10:25):
Um, will you just quickly share with us how people might
get connected, including, um,remind us your podcast and Yeah.
Anything.

absolutely.
Yeah.
So the best way to find me iseither go to anywhere you listen
to podcasts, overwhelmed toOvercomer is the name of the
podcast.
Um, or you can find me onYouTube.
YouTube.
Also the podcast, overwhelmed toOvercomer.
My handle is from my oldbranding.
She considers a field, so youcan find me on YouTube there.

(01:10:53):
Um, my website is currently onhiatus while we figure out what
else we're doing, but I'm onsocial media here and there and,
um, have a free guide alsocalled Overwhelmed to Overcomer
that can help you cut the noiseand really focus on what is my
one thing right now.
So, as you're thinking aboutwhat does it look like to walk
this thing out faithfully, ifhealth is really your, your big

(01:11:16):
item that you're really focusedon, you can actually drill down
to one habit that you're goingto be focused on for a season,
um, or whatever.
It's, whether it's.
it's time with the Lord or it's,um, marriage or relationships or
forgiveness or hydration orwhatever it is, you can drill
down, um, to just one thing thatyou're going to be focusing on

(01:11:37):
and start building healthyhabits around it so you can
connect with that also podcastsand, and YouTube all the places,
and that's easy.

Katie (01:11:48):
Great.
I'll make sure to get links forthose and put those in the
description of this podcast sopeople can find you.

Thanks so

Katie (01:11:55):
I hope they do.
I hope you go check her podcastout.
So go check her out over there,guys.
So thank you so much, Anna.
See you later.

pleasure.

Katie (01:12:05):
Yeah.

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