January 6, 2025 • 40 mins
Welcome back to another episode of Cryptid Cocktail Party! This week we kick off 2025 strong, not really, with an alien abduction case that we feel is underrated, sick as hell, and rad as fuck, but also changed how people in the community looked at group abductions. This week we cover...the Allagash Abductions (as well as some of the myths on Hypnotic Regression Therapy)
Enjoy!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey everybody.
(00:25):
Welcome back to another episode of crypto cocktail party show.
We have a few drinks, share a few laughs, take a dive into the unknown.
I'm your host Dave joined as always, but my good friend, Sarge the destroyer.
How you doing handsome?
I should have known that was going to be the first thing I just needed to.
I, so for those of you who, who don't know why I did that, I just got a sound
(00:48):
board, a mixing board or whatever.
Um, because my microphone wasn't great and I wanted to up my game a little bit.
And then I discovered that I could change my voice and now I'm going to
abuse this shit out of that ability.
It's going to be such a pain in the dick for me.
I already said, I'll always warn you what I'm going to do it.
(01:09):
Oh, well, I appreciate that, but, but, uh, but how you doing?
Well, how's, how's life?
How are things?
I'm phenomenal.
I just had a birthday.
I turned, I turned 43 on Friday.
Yeah.
Old fuck dude.
Yeah.
I'm old as shit.
So old, too old to, I mean, some might say, yeah, I don't know who I say.
I'm going to say it.
(01:31):
I'm too old.
I say that now and I'm almost 38.
So it's not like, it can't really, it just feels like too much.
It's too much.
I feel like once you get past the age of 33, is this like when everything
just kind of starts like steady decline?
Yeah.
You, you really just like, once you hit like 33, you just start buying more
and more ibuprofen and ice packs.
(01:51):
Oh yeah.
Dude, I go through ibuprofen like the Skittles dude.
Yeah.
I live on ice packs.
I just, I'm constantly re one joint in my body always has an ice pack on it.
Yeah.
It's not ideal.
Don't use use word of advice for the kids out there.
Don't grow up.
Yeah.
Simple as that.
I think it's, you know, emotionally and physically just don't do either of them.
Just be, I mean, the cool thing is I now own all the toys.
(02:14):
My parents wouldn't buy me when I was younger.
That is the upside of being with a full time job.
It's kind of worth the effort that goes into it.
I agree.
I agree.
Sarge, it's our first episode of 2025, I think.
Hot damn.
I know.
Right?
Wild to think that what a roller coaster of a year 2024 was.
(02:35):
Roller coaster, absolute roller coaster.
So good.
You know, we got sponsored, we got an award.
We got an award, which is insane to me.
But man, I still don't believe it.
I feel like all of this is just a prank.
That's like an elaborate prank.
Someone's like pulling a really elaborate prank.
It's like that episode of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, where they make D a famous
stand up comedian.
(02:55):
Yes, it is a hundred percent how I feel that this is going.
But yeah, so thanks everyone for an awesome 2024.
It's been wild.
That's great.
And it's only just been getting better.
We had awesome guests.
We had fucking Jordan.
We had fucking Jonathan from Latinos Against Spooky shit.
Like it's just been great.
And hopefully 2025 just fucking.
(03:16):
We're just going to keep going.
We're going to keep and if anybody can get in touch with Aaron from Ghost Adventures,
tell him I need him on an episode.
So many questions.
It's funny you say because I actually emailed Steve from Ghost Hunters to see if he would
be even better.
So I did reach out to Aaron just recently, actually.
I found him on Instagram, but I don't know if he's going to I don't know if he's going
(03:38):
to respond.
Do you know why?
Fucking Nick, dude.
Nick, what's his name?
I forget his name.
He's not on there anymore.
He was off there in like 2014.
They had a falling out.
Yeah. But now he's a rapper and it's fucking great.
Yeah.
Is it raps about ghosts?
I just want to hear him rhyme about ectoplasm.
It's pretty it's gnarly.
My my buddy's podcast, Cool Parents podcast.
(04:00):
They cover a lot of Ghost Adventures stuff, not because they're a paranormal podcast,
so just because it's fucking ridiculous and it's so funny.
And Nick Nick's raps come up quite often.
I'm going to look this up.
I'm going to send it to everyone I know.
It's so good.
Yeah. So I today's episode, our first episode, 25.
(04:21):
I think laid back, laid back, cool, fun, nothing crazy.
Let's ease into the new year.
I feel like is a good idea.
Right. It's a it's a palate cleanser.
Yeah, pretty much.
So today, Sarge, we're going to be heading to the great state of Maine, the way life
should be. Oh, yeah.
To the Allagash Wilderness region of the state.
(04:44):
More trees, less assholes.
So are you familiar with the Allagash Wilderness, that region?
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
So for those of you who don't know or unfamiliar with the Allagash Wilderness,
it's one of those places where you're either going to have like one of the most
peaceful, beautiful camping trips of your life or you're going to end up as a
protagonist in a very specific genre of horror movie.
(05:05):
It's like, yes. Yeah.
One of those beautiful but terrifying places.
Yeah. Like deliverance.
Deliverance is an accurate representation of all of the rural
east parts of the of the country.
Exactly. So it's essentially 92 miles of just like dense forests,
glassy lakes and pristine rivers.
And it's literally in the middle of nowhere.
(05:27):
I think I read I'm not sure this is, but within the Allagash Wilderness area,
I think it's less than 200 people live there.
Like it's remote.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Now, unfortunately for today's subjects, their trip up to the Allagash played out
more like the second scenario more than the first as far as their camping trip
went this week.
(05:48):
We're going to be covering the Allagash abductions.
Is this something you're familiar with?
No, not at all. I'm very excited.
Are you? I can hear your voice.
I'm turned on.
And just so we're clear, this is this is like an alien abduction story.
We didn't like switch genres to true crime.
Not yet, anyways.
Not yet. Not yet.
Once we run out of orange, multi-armed cryptids.
(06:12):
So all right, let's dive into this, bitch.
Are you ready?
Yeah, let's fucking do it.
I'm so excited.
I love alien abductions up here because there's nothing better than somebody
with like a thick New England accent trying to describe constellations.
Dude, they fucking had me right near Alpha Centauri.
I swear to God.
Oh, yeah.
Don't you know, you don't go up there.
(06:33):
That's where you get abducted.
I can't get there from here.
No, back in the day, this is all orange groves.
I don't know.
Fuck it. All right.
This was one of my favorite things to say in a main accent.
Oh, yeah. Back then, it's all orange groves.
Fozzy, I could say.
In a main accent, that's a funny thing to say.
(06:54):
And I don't know.
I agree. I agree.
All right. So in August of 1976, four buddies decided to go on a two week
camping trip up in the Allagash.
Wilderness and I said a little cheat filled with hiking, canoeing, fishing,
maybe some smooching.
I don't know.
Oh, just four dudes enjoying the great outdoors and being one with nature
and possibly with each other.
No, I'm just kidding.
It's not gay if you're in the woods.
(07:16):
It's not gay if you're in the woods.
That's the rules.
Yeah.
The group consisted of one.
Maybe now regret saying what I said, because this is a brothers, Jim and Jack
Weiner and their I mean, it is rural Maine.
And their two friends, Charlie Foltz and contender for Rural Maine.
And contender for best name that we've covered on the show so far in 2025.
Chuck Rack.
(07:37):
Yes.
Chuck Rack has a take no bullshit attitude.
Chuck is wild.
Now, all four of them were art students from Massachusetts who decided to take
this trip to just, you know, get away from it all to the hustle and bustle of
fucking getting high and discussing the difference between Monet and Manet.
But I get it. You know, like,
(07:59):
I have a ton of friends that went to art school in Boston.
Art school can be stressful.
And if anyone can survive two weeks in the most remote parts of Maine, it's
definitely four dudes from like MassArt or Mocha.
Like, yeah, it's going to be trouble.
It's going to be a little bit of trouble.
Yeah. So the first few days out in the wilderness, business as usual, just your
run of the mill boilerplate camp and trip with your boys, drink beers, fishing,
(08:25):
all that stuff that is until the second night.
Now, Jim noticed a strange bright object in the sky.
He said it appeared for about 30 seconds or so and then vanished.
The group didn't really think too much of it and chalked it up to like a plane
or a satellite, which it makes me think that this didn't say, but this means
that the ball of light was probably moving across the sky and not just
stationary because I feel like if it was just a stationary ball of light and
(08:49):
then it just went away, you wouldn't assume it was a plane or a satellite.
Right. Unless you were like maybe behind the plane, like watching it fly off
into the distance, but then then the light would change.
So I don't know. I get everything I just said.
Yeah. They weren't like in a panic over it or anything.
And they just went about their night. So it wasn't like some wild, nothing crazy
happened. Yeah. Yeah.
That is until two nights later on August 20th, 1976.
(09:13):
This is when shit got really real, real quick.
The four dudes paddled their canoes out onto Eagle Lake to do some night fishing,
but not before making their campfire like as big like a basically made a bonfire
just so that the way they could see. Yeah. So they could see. Right.
So that's a smart play, actually. Yeah. They stoked it up real big.
Now the sky is clear. Stars are out. Everything is calm.
(09:34):
That is until it wasn't suddenly Chuck soon followed by the rest of the men sees
this massive light in the sky. And it's not just like hovering above the tree
line. Like this thing is moving towards them and at a speed that is not
comfortable. Oh, no. You think their first instincts after, you know,
(09:56):
they all finally noticed this thing would to be like, get the fuck out of there.
Right. Yeah. No, they just would be my response. They just kept fishing.
And then Charlie, arguably the dumbest of the group, decides he's going to take
his flashlight and like shine like SOS at it. Oh, God. Yeah.
I mean, that's that's really a great idea. Flash SOS at any aircraft while
(10:18):
you're on a remote lake. That's always going to end well. Yeah.
Now, I'm sure he realizes now in hindsight that this was a bad move,
because whatever the object was, it decided it was going to shoot its own
beam of light down at them. And that's when Chuck was like, guys, we we got to
start moving like now. Time to go. The the beam of light followed the men
along the water as they hurriedly paddled their way back to shore. But the beam
(10:41):
of light only got closer and closer until the beam finally caught up with them.
And then, bam, the men were back on shore at their campsite watching the light
vanish into the sky. The fact that the men don't really actually remember
reaching shore, but we're now back at camp, didn't really seem to phase them.
Each one individually probably assume that the fear and adrenaline of being
chased by a rogue light made them temporarily black out or something.
(11:03):
Or because it was so hectic in the moment that they simply just didn't realize
they had hit shore because they got they stood up out of the canoes and then
watched the light vanish. They must not have really been focused on that part,
because not going to lie, that sounds fucking terrifying. The weirdest part to
them was that the well stoked fire that they had lit only minutes ago was now
(11:24):
completely burnt out, suggesting that they had been gone for several hours.
But dudes being dudes, they're like, that's weird.
Then this went to bed and then proceeded to spend another 10 days in the woods.
Wow. No fear whatsoever.
No fucks given. Pretty good for some art students, I feel like, because if that
(11:46):
was me, I grew up in that area, I'd still be like, yeah, we're going to go.
Just done. Now, they didn't experience anything else in the woods those last
10 days. And when they returned home, they told their family and friends about
their weird encounter with the lights, but nobody believed them. And they were
just went about their lives. Yeah. No one ever believes you until.
Yeah. Now that is until 1988. Jack started having strange nightmares about
(12:12):
the four men sitting on a bench naked and being just absolutely terrified.
And these creepy humanoid beings with giant black eyes. It was around this time
that Jim, Jack's brother, suffered a fall that triggered seizures, which caused
him to start having visions of alien visitors levitating in his bedroom, as well
as the same strange nightmares as his brother. Now, at some point, I believe it
(12:33):
was around the same time the four men are hanging out at a party, just shooting
the shit. And they started discussing the the incident on Eagle Lake. It's then
that they realized that all four of them, not just Jack and Jim, are having
basically the same nightmares. So they all decided it was time for some answers
to what's going on. So Jim reaches out to UFO researcher Raymond Fowler to try
(12:57):
this hip new thing, regressive hypnosis. Oh, good. I just want to pause for a
second and talk about Raymond Fowler. He's the guy who pretty much like he
literally wrote the book on this story. He was a well known UFO researcher back
in the day, authoring books on some of the most famous UFO and alien abduction
cases like the Betty and Barney Hill abduction. So he wasn't like just some
(13:21):
UFO enthusiast. Like he was like a meticulous, dedicated guy. And he really
threw himself at these cases to try and get to the bottom of these stories. He
was already well established at the time, like super credible. So when these guys
came to him, like they knew like he was their guy. But I don't know what his
credentials were for like fucking around in people's brains. You know what I mean?
(13:42):
I don't recommend it if you don't have any credentials. Yeah, well, whatever. But
anyway, so under the guidance of Fowler, all four of the men agreed to go under
separate regressive hypnosis set. I can't say this without stumbling to go under
separate regressive hypnosis sessions to try and uncover what had happened during
those missing hours. And boy, did they uncover some fucking stuff. Are you ready
(14:03):
for this shit? No, I'm so ready. I'm I'm very excited. This is actually so
hypnotic regression is actually something that I know a little bit about
not only for researching the episode, but also just in my ancillary research into
the satanic panic. So I'm a bit of a fan of pseudosciences that don't actually
(14:27):
work and actually cause bigger problems. Don't get your skeptic hat on just yet.
Let me let's you know, there's a time and place for this. All right. Sorry. I'm
just throbbing right now. I'm ready. So each of the men described being taken
aboard a craft where they were separated immediately upon entry. Classic alien
move. They were led into different rooms that they described as being cold,
(14:48):
metallic and eerily sterile. There, the aliens began their experiments. Now,
what kind of experiments you may be asking? But stuff always just the
stuff. It's super awesome, highly invasive experiments you'd expect from
aliens. Needles were inserted inserted into their heads, their arms, spines,
dick and balls. Yep. Yeah, sounds about right. The being seem particularly
(15:12):
interested in collecting reproductive material. They collected semen, blood.
They even scraped off skin samples with what looked like a metallic curved
planar that they put on their chest. You know, like a planar, like a what? Yeah.
Yeah. No, I know what you're talking about. At least that's like how I
interpreted what was being described. Yeah. No, no matter what you're picturing,
it's probably just as worse. Yeah. No, they described the creatures performing
(15:36):
these tasks as having large black almond shaped eyes, spindly limbs and grayish
skin. The beings never spoke to the men directly. Instead, they quote unquote
talked directly into their minds. The telepathy. OK, they were saying stuff
like you will not be harmed and this is necessary. Necessary for what? You may be
asking. They did not clarify. No, they never do. They never do. They're like
(16:00):
this is necessary. Now bend over and spread them cheeks. Boy, no, I think I
think one of the creepiest parts is so did the men who experienced it was just
like how like detached the being seem like there's no motion, but there's also
no malice and also no no empathy like they just purely clinical detachment from
their subjects, which makes sense when you think about it, because like when
(16:24):
human beings are testing on animals, we're like, don't worry about this. But
we have no idea. You know, when they shoot an animal with a tranquilizer
dart, like I'm sure it hurts them. I'm sure they don't enjoy it. Oh, no. But
also like if you're just seeing something as a scientific subject, you're not
thinking about. Yeah, no, it's yeah. But anyway, so that's what they remember.
(16:45):
That's what they got from this whole regressive therapy thing. Super fucked up.
I would want to forget it, too. And I honestly think that if I came out of the
hypnosis, like I would just be like, fuck you, Fowler, like maybe forget again.
Like now they just have to live with that now. Yeah. Thanks for the help, you
dick. Right. Like what do you do? Like now you have to go to like actual real
therapy to like get over it. Right. No, you just I don't need this shit in my
(17:09):
life. I was better off not remembering. I can deal with one or two nightmares
every couple of months. Yeah. So basically. So that was that was their story.
But I mean, that is if we believe their story, you know, and why should we?
Well, for starters, they all describe the same exact events during their
hypnosis sessions down to like the smallest details. And they were conducted
(17:31):
separately. So it's not like they could bounce ideas off of one another. Second,
they all also went underwent polygraph tests. Now, I know polygraph tests are
like super fucking foolproof, but it's worth noting that not one of them showed
any signs of deception when they were recounting their experiences. And then
another reason why it's kind of believable is their artwork, especially
(17:52):
gyms. Remember, these are fucking art kids, by the way. Right. Right. Right.
Art students. It is hauntingly vivid. And if you get a chance to look it up,
definitely do. But his sketches are detailed, like the bees got every vein
on his testicles. The beings, the craft and even like the instruments they used
on them. It gives the story some kind of like a really unsettling, like
(18:16):
tangibility to it. Like it's not just some like abstract idea. Like the
incident clearly left a mark on him, but. Not everyone believes this story, and
there are always going to be skeptics. Some argue that what the foreman
experience could have been natural phenomena. For instance, the lights in the
sky may have been ball lightning. Some also suggest that it could also have
(18:38):
been experimental aircraft. Now, I personally don't buy either of those.
Ball lightning is crazy rare, especially in Maine. It was obviously swamp gas.
And the the Allagash, like it's so fucking remote that there's no way
there's an experimental Air Force base out there. Yeah. I mean, why? Why would
(18:59):
they do it there? Why wouldn't they do it over the desert where it's flat? So if
the plane goes down, it's easy to find. Yeah. It also doesn't explain like the
missing time or the vivid memories uncovered during their hypnosis, which
brings us to our next skeptic viewpoint. Regressive hypnosis. Sarge, you're kind
of like a mini expert on this. Oh, man. You want to cover this one? I am what it
(19:20):
is and why it's kind of bullshit. OK, so hypnotic regression is a practice of
hypnotizing patients to access repressed memories. So practitioners believe that
by putting patients into a state of hypnosis, the typical inhibitions of our
mind are weakened enough to access the more remote areas of memory. So to
understand this type of therapy, it's also important to first understand why
(19:42):
someone would want to access these memories like you actually touched on a
little bit like I would rather just not remember this. Yeah, just let me forget.
Yeah, but not not to Sarge plane here, but humans use memory to inform future
decision making. Obviously, we all know that. Yeah. And this is an easy way for
our minds to help navigate, for instance, the best routes to get to a place that
(20:04):
we've already been to. Like, don't go this way. You know, there's a swamp in
the way you're going to get wet. Go this way instead, for instance, you don't
want to go down there. You can't get there from here. Get that from well. So
but this also helps us to survive. So for instance, if we touch a stove when it's
on the unpleasant memory, the pain that we receive the burn will remind us not
(20:25):
to touch the oven in the future. Natural Institute of Health reports that
negative memories are often more vivid than positive or neutral ones. And this
is why most people can remember even mild insults with a lot of clarity, but
can't remember what they had for breakfast yesterday. Yeah, explains a lot
of my shower thoughts. Yeah, yeah, mine too. I mean, I'm really trying not to
think of you in the shower, but it still comes up. Well, it is established that
(20:51):
negative memories can reinforce positive behaviors. Some negative memories are
also so traumatic that our brains are believed to retain them, but
unconsciously locked them away in an effort to protect us from vividly
reliving the trauma repressed memories. Now you said believe because I I should
probably should have done some research on this too, but I heard a thing that
like repressed memories aren't even really a thing. So I'll get there. I'll
(21:14):
get there. You're not far off. So some examples of what could be a repressed
memory would be experiences like childhood abuse, violent crime, natural
disasters, things like that. Yeah, the problem with so called repressed
memories is that while victims do not clearly remember the memory itself, our
bodies would still have the physiological response to some of the
circumstances that existed during the event in which the memory was created,
(21:37):
which could trigger stress, anxiety and panic. These circumstances could be
different smells, different sounds or even something as simple as a strong
breeze. In my case as a veteran with PTSD, I'm triggered by the smell of
metal shipping containers, large crowds in the area around the finish line of
the Boston Marathon. But because I do not suffer from repressed memories, I
can take steps to mitigate that. However, with people who have repressed
(22:00):
memories, they won't know what's going to trigger them until it's too late.
It's believed that accessing these repressed memories will give therapists
the opportunity to treat the symptoms and potentially desensitize the patient
to more common triggers. While there are many practitioners of this form of
therapy, there are just as many, if not more detractors. The argument against
repressed memory itself is pretty complex. There's a whole rabbit hole you
(22:22):
can fall down if you're so inclined. I'm just going to try to simplify it with
three main points. First one, memories are copies of copies of copies. Science
now believes that when we are remembering something, we're actually just making a
new memory based on the details we retained from the old memories. In that
practice, some of the clarity is lost. So the emotion remains strong associated
with the memory itself, but the memory becomes more an amalgamation than a
(22:46):
verbal retelling. So this is why an eyewitness testimony alone can be a
hindrance to a case. Think of like the cross-examination scenes from my cousin
Vinnie. The research into repressed memory found that people are more likely
just forgetting things than actually repressing them. And evolutionarily, this
kind of makes a lot of sense because if there was a super
(23:08):
traumatic event, why would you mind hide them from you? It would only
protect you to remember it. So you would have a much better chance of surviving.
So if you remember why there's a strong breeze, then you know why it's making you
panic and why you should avoid it. And then finally, the instance of repressed
memory, purely anecdotal, there's no way to measure a repressed memory with any
(23:32):
sort of reliability. Now, the arguments against hypnotic regression are also
kind of complex, so I'll simplify with really just this one kind of big bullet
point I put together. So hypnosis is an effective treatment for behaviors
because under hypnosis, the subject of the hypnotism is highly open to
suggestion. It can help people overcome undesirable habits or encourage people
(23:55):
to engage in desirable habits. However, even skilled, well-meaning hypnotists
are incapable of telling real memories from false ones. So when they use
hypnosis to bring up these repressed memories, they don't know what they're
bringing up. They don't know if it's real or not. And the reason for that is that
repressed memories are, you're almost in like a dreamlike state when you're
(24:16):
under hypnosis. It's not the same as a dream, but it's very similar. Your mind
kind of... Sounds kind of like a sleep paralysis kind of thing. Exactly.
For instance, what was experienced during the hypnotic regression sessions
during the satanic panic of the late 70s and mid 90s through the mid 90s is that
many of these repressed memories were actually just false memories
(24:37):
inadvertently created by the hypnosis practitioner because hypnosis is so
closely linked to dreaming. I was going to say, this is one of the big things
is that when they're under, when they're in this state, they can... The person
doing the hypnosis can kind of ask leading questions and kind of give you
leading... Exactly. And then you just kind of form that shit in your own brain.
And then they're like, oh shit, see, I was right. Which is why I'm not really
(25:01):
super swayed by the fact that all of their stories matched up because of course
their stories matched up. Yeah. It's the same guiding principle. Exactly.
The one common denominator between all of them is like, he could be like, if
Jack was under and he's like, no, Jim saw this. Did you see this as well?
He's like, oh shit, yeah, I definitely saw the dude getting blamed a lot.
(25:22):
Yeah. And it becomes a sort of yes and situation. So the therapist may not
always be trying to implant memories. They may just be trying to get to the
bottom of the truth when you've got a true believer like this guy who is a
UFO researcher. I don't think he did the actual thing, but he was present in
the room. So he might've been... Yeah. So he's probably yes ending his whole way
(25:44):
through it. And back in the 70s and 80s, they really didn't fully understand how
suggestible people were in hypnotic regressions. A good example of the
satanic panic style hypnotic regression is a book called Michelle Remembers.
Oh fuck. This book was written by a highly unethical therapist who with the
help of his patient uncovered alleged satanic ritual abuse only for the accused
(26:08):
of the abuse to refute these claims with undeniable proof, such as locations
that supposedly these crimes were committed in, never existing. It was, it
was, it was a, there's a Martin preschool case. You're thinking of the
McMartin trial, which happened in California. Michelle Remembers was a
Canadian story. Okay. But there was also kind of the same thing where they were
saying that underneath the school, there was like a bunch of tunnels and stuff.
(26:32):
They dug up the school and didn't find nothing. It wasn't there. But also, so in
Michelle Remembers, another highlight, Satan actually makes a physical
appearance apparently, which is just bad shit insane. And as for the unethical
behavior, just so you don't think I'm trying to ad hom this guy, I want you to
fully understand aside from exploiting as highly suggestible patient, the
(26:55):
therapist, Dr. Lawrence Pasder later married this same patient, the subject of
the book while continuing to treat her and promote himself as an expert in
satanic ritual abuse, a thing with which never actually existed. So that is why I
am not a huge believer in satanic regression. I mean, I'm hypnotic
regression. It's just insane. But that makes you think that maybe you planted
(27:19):
in her mind that he, she loved him. Yes. Yes. That is what I believe. Yes.
Because she was, she was basically 18 or 20, I think at the time he started this
and he was in his like forties, he was married with kids. Maybe he was just,
maybe he was just hot as hot doc, dude. He was just a hot doc. He's a doctor's
(27:41):
daddy. Yeah. So basically the skeptics saying that regression therapy is
bullshit. And I agree a hundred percent. I don't, I think that the whole repressed
memory thing is very false memory adjacent to the whole thing. Like, so I
(28:03):
agree with that. And they actually say that people are really bad at
determining whether they have a false memory or, or a repressed memory. Oh, I'm
sure that half my memories aren't real. I think I made up most, most of my
backstory is probably all fake. I've no idea. I can't tell you how many times I
remembered something and then only to talk to somebody who was there and they
(28:25):
were like, no, it didn't happen that way. Yeah. It's just, it's how our brains
work. Yeah. I, but the thing is I believe to remember the things that I want to
remember. Yes. I'll try to remember the more positive version of the story,
regardless of who remembered it. Yeah. And I'm not, I'm not saying that I'm
skeptical of this abduction. Honestly. I actually kind of liked the idea of it. I
(28:47):
want to hear more about it, but in terms of the hypnosis aspect of it, pure
bullshit, full on. Yeah. So the other things that the skeptics are saying
besides, you know, natural phenomenon, fake fucking military air bases in the
Northern Maine and the regression therapy is that some are saying that this case
(29:08):
just may be all made up. Like, I mean, but that's always a good possibility, but
that's also like what every fucking skeptic says. I mean, like if that was the
case, like why stick to the story for decades? Why go through all the troubles
of like the hypnosis, the polygraph tests and endure like the scrutiny of public
(29:29):
opinion, which basically what we're kind of doing now doesn't seem really worth
it. But also this theory kind of, it doesn't help that the fact that Chuck
decades later would claim that parts of his story were exaggerated and then
recanted much of his experience. He also said the men were highest block before
going, I was really hoping it would eventually get to that point because I
(29:51):
was, I was pretty confident that somebody was high, but they, but they, they said
that they, they smoked a bunch of hash, which I don't think makes you hallucinate.
I'm pretty sure it's basically just like weed resin is like it's, it's weed. It's
cannabis. I'm not super familiar with hash. The one time I smoked it. I, I
didn't hallucinate. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Not really familiar with what it
(30:14):
is. Somebody just handed it to me and I, it's nothing. It's not like, so they
weren't like fucking like tripping on acid, which is kind of weird because it
was the seventies. You think that would be the case, but no, they did. There's
a bunch of hash like before they went on the lake that night. And then he, he
claimed that this is also part of like a get rich quick scheme. And the four of
them thought that they could make a pretty penny by telling their story. Okay.
(30:38):
But, but he also still claims that he did see a craft and he said that he did feel
like they were being watched while out there. And so I don't, so I don't know
what his deal is, but the other three men still defend their stories and they no
longer speak to Chuck. So, okay. Yeah. So maybe, I mean, I don't know. I think, I
(31:02):
think there's a really good possibility that the hypnotic regression therapy
probably implanted a little bit of this story. So for somebody like Chuck, you
know, they'd lost some time. They were smoking hash. So if it's anything like
weed, it's going to kill a good portion of time. Yeah. I've certainly smoked
enough where I brain dumped an entire evening. Yeah. And then you're like, why,
(31:26):
how the fuck did I end up on my couch eating ice cream? Exactly. Like if you ever,
if you ever like gone out with friends and smoked and then you just, your memory
turns back on and you're in your house and you're like, I hope to God I didn't
drive. Right. But it's also like, it seems like, or maybe Chuck's brain is just
(31:48):
more like he's more, he's not as susceptible to hypnosis as the others. And
then he's so like, he realized like, wait, like this didn't fucking happen. Like
it's actually interesting that you say that maybe, maybe he was yes. And the
other guy was like, I don't remember if I was like, I don't remember that. I
don't remember. I was like, I was like, I don't remember that night. Maybe that
day that is what happened. And maybe I just made out with those two brothers.
(32:11):
Yeah. Maybe I don't know needle in my Dick and balls. Maybe they were just
sounding me. Exactly. Exactly. That could be the case. So maybe Chuck is the one
who's like, no, you guys listen, this is not a thing. And they're like, no, fuck
you, Chuck. We remember now. And he's like, all right, fine. Whatever. Like a
whole experiment in college, Chuck, you were at art school in Boston in the
seventies. I mean, come on, there's nothing wrong with it. You drive a truck
(32:35):
once. It doesn't make you a truck driver and no one's judging you. You know, I, I
don't care if you guys got it on like, yeah, you try and stuff out. But, but
whether you believe it or not, the Allagash abductions, like they remain one
of the most iconic cases in UFO lore. Like, well, it may not be like as well
known as some of the others. It is often cited alongside like the Travis Walton
(32:59):
fire in the sky. Yeah. I was thinking a lot of the correlations with Travis
Walton story. Kind of like that. And then also like the Betty and Barney Hill
abduction as like, this is one of the most credible and chilling encounters, I
guess you could say. I love that story too. I mean, we've talked about this
before, but I love going up to that gas station. Yeah. The one, the mural across
from where they were abducted and go to the mural. I frigging love it. It's like a
(33:23):
religious experience for me. Yeah. So I mean, like in this, this case also helped
popularize the idea of an alien abduction as not just like a solitary event, but
something that could happen to like a group of people, which added like a new
layer of complexity to the whole like UFO abduction phenomenon. So whether it
happened or not, it definitely, it shed some light on some stuff in the community
(33:44):
that people were starting to take notice of. So that's kind of cool. Yeah. I think
it kind of makes this story more accessible to, to people too. And just in
terms of them being like, oh my God, like I go camping with my buddies sometimes,
you know? Yeah. I give them smooches around the webs. I would actually love to see,
I would love to see a UFO when I'm out camping. That'd be so frigging cool. I mean,
(34:06):
I, I've been out camping. I've seen satellites go by. I mean, I wouldn't want to
fucking put a needle in my dick and balls, but I don't want to be sounded by
aliens for sure. I mean, I, I mean, well, I mean, I guess it depends how drunk I am,
how I'm feeling, how hot are the aliens? Yeah. They didn't, they didn't sound hot.
No, they didn't. No, they didn't. But yeah, I want to believe this story is true.
(34:29):
I do. I do too. Especially cause it happened in our own backyard. I mean, we can
drive up to Allagash. Yeah. I'm realizing now that like, I just kind of ended the
story and went straight into the theory. So that's because like, I couldn't find
like any back, like they didn't like go home and then talk to the media. You know
what I mean? Like it wasn't like one of those days where like you hear about it
in the newspapers for like a bunch of, and then everyone in town is shitting on
(34:51):
them and like fucking calling them frauds. She liked that. Like, so it kind of
just is that it's like their story. They found the dude, they did the hypnosis
and then, you know, the guy wrote a book about it later. And then like, it wasn't
so like, I think the nineties or whatever that unsolved mysteries, the original
one did a story. But even then, like, I don't remember hearing it. I had never
(35:14):
heard of this case until now. So I mean, I'm never convinced by the get rich quick
scheme angle when people talk about that for these stories, because no one is ever
in the history of alien abductions gotten rich because they got abducted by
aliens. True. I mean, Travis Walton got a movie made about him. I don't know if he
made money. I don't think he's rich though. Oh God, no, not by any means. Yeah.
But I mean, he's probably better off than fucking Chuck. Yeah, that's true. I mean,
(35:38):
all he did, all he did was surprise me with the fact that there's a town called
Snowflake in fucking New Mexico. That's how did that happen? You know, wishful
thinking, I guess, or maybe global war. Maybe there was a one point. We don't
know. But I actually, I met somebody from Snowflake and I was like, Oh my God,
fire in the sky. And she was considerably younger than I was. She's a college
(36:01):
student. She's like, what are you talking about? I'm like, forget it. Don't worry
about it. You wouldn't get it. No, so they have it kind of more relaxed episode.
We didn't really go too hard on anything. Nothing too crazy except for the
sounding thing. You know, I want to believe the story is true. Like something,
I do too. Something definitely happened to the men out there, whether they,
whether they just high saw fucking weird light in the sky and then forgot, or
(36:26):
maybe they did get full on sounded by grays. Who knows? Or maybe it was a
little bit of both. Maybe they just had a passionate night of wonderful carnal
experiences in the deep dark remote recesses of the main forest. Well, I mean
they didn't not leave for another 10 days. So exactly. You know, maybe they
were like, Hey, we need to explain all these weird scars in our body. Exactly.
(36:51):
All right. So what do you, what do you think about this story? I like it. I want
to go camping there. I want to go right now. It sounds like a nightmare. Not
right now. It's cold and shitty, but we should go there and record a podcast
from these woods. All right. See what happens. Maybe we'll get fucking. Yeah.
Just see what happens. You know, just get up there. Just the male urge to get
(37:12):
abducted with your boys. Yeah, exactly. I got FOMO. The masculine urge to get
sounded by aliens next to your boys. Sometimes I wonder if some of these alien
abduction stories are just a way for like some really repressed dudes to just
get some of their fantasies out. All right. Sorry. That's the end of the
(37:36):
episode. I think we did okay for our first episode back in 2025. Maybe we
nailed it. I have no idea. Fucking who knows? All right. Is there anything you
want to, you want to plug before we? Yes. The coloring book is still live.
Saj's super normal.com. Get a coloring book and color your pain away. Also on
Friday. I'm going on Scotch fully yours with some buddies of mine. Is he going to
(38:02):
air Friday or is it going to? I don't know. I'll put out some stuff on the
internet. I'll post something on the socials so that people can tune in
appropriately. I'll, I'll support it. Doug, who is one of the co-hosts that I
know. It's a great guy. I'm sure we're going to have a good time. Hell yeah. Yeah.
If you want to keep up with what's going on with Saj, you can follow him on all
(38:24):
of the socials at Saj's destroyer on most platforms. Yeah. Just Google Saj
destroyer. You'll find it. Yeah. Or you can find all of the socials at the link
in our Instagram, which you can follow at Crypto cocktail. You follow us on
TikTok, Crypto cocktail party. Please leave us a rating and review. It's super
helps. Tell your friends to listen to the show. Even if you don't, you know, even
if they don't like it, you know, just get them to listen to one episode. That's their problem, not yours.
(38:46):
You, you, you led them to water, make them drink it. Steal their phone, download
every episode and then leave a rating and review as them. Yes. I think that's
encouraged. I think that works for me. I smoke some hash first so they don't
remember. Yeah. It might be fraud, but I don't give a fuck. It's not really like,
it's only fraud if you get caught. I mean, it's not like a criminal fraud. Yeah.
(39:08):
It's like a, it's like a little rap scallion fraud is what that is. Yeah. It's
very new, encourageable, scallywag. It's a very tiny Tim crime. Yeah. Yeah. All
right. Thanks so much everyone. 2025 is going to be our year. I could feel it.
And I think with that out of the way, Sarge, do you want to say goodbye? And I love you to the audience.
(39:29):
Goodbye. And I love you guys.
(39:59):
Yeah.
Hey everybody.
(00:25):
Welcome back to another episode of crypto cocktail party show.
We have a few drinks, share a few laughs, take a dive into the unknown.
I'm your host Dave joined as always, but my good friend, Sarge the destroyer.
How you doing handsome?
I should have known that was going to be the first thing I just needed to.
I, so for those of you who, who don't know why I did that, I just got a sound
(00:48):
board, a mixing board or whatever.
Um, because my microphone wasn't great and I wanted to up my game a little bit.
And then I discovered that I could change my voice and now I'm going to
abuse this shit out of that ability.
It's going to be such a pain in the dick for me.
I already said, I'll always warn you what I'm going to do it.
(01:09):
Oh, well, I appreciate that, but, but, uh, but how you doing?
Well, how's, how's life?
How are things?
I'm phenomenal.
I just had a birthday.
I turned, I turned 43 on Friday.
Yeah.
Old fuck dude.
Yeah.
I'm old as shit.
So old, too old to, I mean, some might say, yeah, I don't know who I say.
I'm going to say it.
(01:31):
I'm too old.
I say that now and I'm almost 38.
So it's not like, it can't really, it just feels like too much.
It's too much.
I feel like once you get past the age of 33, is this like when everything
just kind of starts like steady decline?
Yeah.
You, you really just like, once you hit like 33, you just start buying more
and more ibuprofen and ice packs.
(01:51):
Oh yeah.
Dude, I go through ibuprofen like the Skittles dude.
Yeah.
I live on ice packs.
I just, I'm constantly re one joint in my body always has an ice pack on it.
Yeah.
It's not ideal.
Don't use use word of advice for the kids out there.
Don't grow up.
Yeah.
Simple as that.
I think it's, you know, emotionally and physically just don't do either of them.
Just be, I mean, the cool thing is I now own all the toys.
(02:14):
My parents wouldn't buy me when I was younger.
That is the upside of being with a full time job.
It's kind of worth the effort that goes into it.
I agree.
I agree.
Sarge, it's our first episode of 2025, I think.
Hot damn.
I know.
Right?
Wild to think that what a roller coaster of a year 2024 was.
(02:35):
Roller coaster, absolute roller coaster.
So good.
You know, we got sponsored, we got an award.
We got an award, which is insane to me.
But man, I still don't believe it.
I feel like all of this is just a prank.
That's like an elaborate prank.
Someone's like pulling a really elaborate prank.
It's like that episode of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, where they make D a famous
stand up comedian.
(02:55):
Yes, it is a hundred percent how I feel that this is going.
But yeah, so thanks everyone for an awesome 2024.
It's been wild.
That's great.
And it's only just been getting better.
We had awesome guests.
We had fucking Jordan.
We had fucking Jonathan from Latinos Against Spooky shit.
Like it's just been great.
And hopefully 2025 just fucking.
(03:16):
We're just going to keep going.
We're going to keep and if anybody can get in touch with Aaron from Ghost Adventures,
tell him I need him on an episode.
So many questions.
It's funny you say because I actually emailed Steve from Ghost Hunters to see if he would
be even better.
So I did reach out to Aaron just recently, actually.
I found him on Instagram, but I don't know if he's going to I don't know if he's going
(03:38):
to respond.
Do you know why?
Fucking Nick, dude.
Nick, what's his name?
I forget his name.
He's not on there anymore.
He was off there in like 2014.
They had a falling out.
Yeah. But now he's a rapper and it's fucking great.
Yeah.
Is it raps about ghosts?
I just want to hear him rhyme about ectoplasm.
It's pretty it's gnarly.
My my buddy's podcast, Cool Parents podcast.
(04:00):
They cover a lot of Ghost Adventures stuff, not because they're a paranormal podcast,
so just because it's fucking ridiculous and it's so funny.
And Nick Nick's raps come up quite often.
I'm going to look this up.
I'm going to send it to everyone I know.
It's so good.
Yeah. So I today's episode, our first episode, 25.
(04:21):
I think laid back, laid back, cool, fun, nothing crazy.
Let's ease into the new year.
I feel like is a good idea.
Right. It's a it's a palate cleanser.
Yeah, pretty much.
So today, Sarge, we're going to be heading to the great state of Maine, the way life
should be. Oh, yeah.
To the Allagash Wilderness region of the state.
(04:44):
More trees, less assholes.
So are you familiar with the Allagash Wilderness, that region?
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
So for those of you who don't know or unfamiliar with the Allagash Wilderness,
it's one of those places where you're either going to have like one of the most
peaceful, beautiful camping trips of your life or you're going to end up as a
protagonist in a very specific genre of horror movie.
(05:05):
It's like, yes. Yeah.
One of those beautiful but terrifying places.
Yeah. Like deliverance.
Deliverance is an accurate representation of all of the rural
east parts of the of the country.
Exactly. So it's essentially 92 miles of just like dense forests,
glassy lakes and pristine rivers.
And it's literally in the middle of nowhere.
(05:27):
I think I read I'm not sure this is, but within the Allagash Wilderness area,
I think it's less than 200 people live there.
Like it's remote.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Now, unfortunately for today's subjects, their trip up to the Allagash played out
more like the second scenario more than the first as far as their camping trip
went this week.
(05:48):
We're going to be covering the Allagash abductions.
Is this something you're familiar with?
No, not at all. I'm very excited.
Are you? I can hear your voice.
I'm turned on.
And just so we're clear, this is this is like an alien abduction story.
We didn't like switch genres to true crime.
Not yet, anyways.
Not yet. Not yet.
Once we run out of orange, multi-armed cryptids.
(06:12):
So all right, let's dive into this, bitch.
Are you ready?
Yeah, let's fucking do it.
I'm so excited.
I love alien abductions up here because there's nothing better than somebody
with like a thick New England accent trying to describe constellations.
Dude, they fucking had me right near Alpha Centauri.
I swear to God.
Oh, yeah.
Don't you know, you don't go up there.
(06:33):
That's where you get abducted.
I can't get there from here.
No, back in the day, this is all orange groves.
I don't know.
Fuck it. All right.
This was one of my favorite things to say in a main accent.
Oh, yeah. Back then, it's all orange groves.
Fozzy, I could say.
In a main accent, that's a funny thing to say.
(06:54):
And I don't know.
I agree. I agree.
All right. So in August of 1976, four buddies decided to go on a two week
camping trip up in the Allagash.
Wilderness and I said a little cheat filled with hiking, canoeing, fishing,
maybe some smooching.
I don't know.
Oh, just four dudes enjoying the great outdoors and being one with nature
and possibly with each other.
No, I'm just kidding.
It's not gay if you're in the woods.
(07:16):
It's not gay if you're in the woods.
That's the rules.
Yeah.
The group consisted of one.
Maybe now regret saying what I said, because this is a brothers, Jim and Jack
Weiner and their I mean, it is rural Maine.
And their two friends, Charlie Foltz and contender for Rural Maine.
And contender for best name that we've covered on the show so far in 2025.
Chuck Rack.
(07:37):
Yes.
Chuck Rack has a take no bullshit attitude.
Chuck is wild.
Now, all four of them were art students from Massachusetts who decided to take
this trip to just, you know, get away from it all to the hustle and bustle of
fucking getting high and discussing the difference between Monet and Manet.
But I get it. You know, like,
(07:59):
I have a ton of friends that went to art school in Boston.
Art school can be stressful.
And if anyone can survive two weeks in the most remote parts of Maine, it's
definitely four dudes from like MassArt or Mocha.
Like, yeah, it's going to be trouble.
It's going to be a little bit of trouble.
Yeah. So the first few days out in the wilderness, business as usual, just your
run of the mill boilerplate camp and trip with your boys, drink beers, fishing,
(08:25):
all that stuff that is until the second night.
Now, Jim noticed a strange bright object in the sky.
He said it appeared for about 30 seconds or so and then vanished.
The group didn't really think too much of it and chalked it up to like a plane
or a satellite, which it makes me think that this didn't say, but this means
that the ball of light was probably moving across the sky and not just
stationary because I feel like if it was just a stationary ball of light and
(08:49):
then it just went away, you wouldn't assume it was a plane or a satellite.
Right. Unless you were like maybe behind the plane, like watching it fly off
into the distance, but then then the light would change.
So I don't know. I get everything I just said.
Yeah. They weren't like in a panic over it or anything.
And they just went about their night. So it wasn't like some wild, nothing crazy
happened. Yeah. Yeah.
That is until two nights later on August 20th, 1976.
(09:13):
This is when shit got really real, real quick.
The four dudes paddled their canoes out onto Eagle Lake to do some night fishing,
but not before making their campfire like as big like a basically made a bonfire
just so that the way they could see. Yeah. So they could see. Right.
So that's a smart play, actually. Yeah. They stoked it up real big.
Now the sky is clear. Stars are out. Everything is calm.
(09:34):
That is until it wasn't suddenly Chuck soon followed by the rest of the men sees
this massive light in the sky. And it's not just like hovering above the tree
line. Like this thing is moving towards them and at a speed that is not
comfortable. Oh, no. You think their first instincts after, you know,
(09:56):
they all finally noticed this thing would to be like, get the fuck out of there.
Right. Yeah. No, they just would be my response. They just kept fishing.
And then Charlie, arguably the dumbest of the group, decides he's going to take
his flashlight and like shine like SOS at it. Oh, God. Yeah.
I mean, that's that's really a great idea. Flash SOS at any aircraft while
(10:18):
you're on a remote lake. That's always going to end well. Yeah.
Now, I'm sure he realizes now in hindsight that this was a bad move,
because whatever the object was, it decided it was going to shoot its own
beam of light down at them. And that's when Chuck was like, guys, we we got to
start moving like now. Time to go. The the beam of light followed the men
along the water as they hurriedly paddled their way back to shore. But the beam
(10:41):
of light only got closer and closer until the beam finally caught up with them.
And then, bam, the men were back on shore at their campsite watching the light
vanish into the sky. The fact that the men don't really actually remember
reaching shore, but we're now back at camp, didn't really seem to phase them.
Each one individually probably assume that the fear and adrenaline of being
chased by a rogue light made them temporarily black out or something.
(11:03):
Or because it was so hectic in the moment that they simply just didn't realize
they had hit shore because they got they stood up out of the canoes and then
watched the light vanish. They must not have really been focused on that part,
because not going to lie, that sounds fucking terrifying. The weirdest part to
them was that the well stoked fire that they had lit only minutes ago was now
(11:24):
completely burnt out, suggesting that they had been gone for several hours.
But dudes being dudes, they're like, that's weird.
Then this went to bed and then proceeded to spend another 10 days in the woods.
Wow. No fear whatsoever.
No fucks given. Pretty good for some art students, I feel like, because if that
(11:46):
was me, I grew up in that area, I'd still be like, yeah, we're going to go.
Just done. Now, they didn't experience anything else in the woods those last
10 days. And when they returned home, they told their family and friends about
their weird encounter with the lights, but nobody believed them. And they were
just went about their lives. Yeah. No one ever believes you until.
Yeah. Now that is until 1988. Jack started having strange nightmares about
(12:12):
the four men sitting on a bench naked and being just absolutely terrified.
And these creepy humanoid beings with giant black eyes. It was around this time
that Jim, Jack's brother, suffered a fall that triggered seizures, which caused
him to start having visions of alien visitors levitating in his bedroom, as well
as the same strange nightmares as his brother. Now, at some point, I believe it
(12:33):
was around the same time the four men are hanging out at a party, just shooting
the shit. And they started discussing the the incident on Eagle Lake. It's then
that they realized that all four of them, not just Jack and Jim, are having
basically the same nightmares. So they all decided it was time for some answers
to what's going on. So Jim reaches out to UFO researcher Raymond Fowler to try
(12:57):
this hip new thing, regressive hypnosis. Oh, good. I just want to pause for a
second and talk about Raymond Fowler. He's the guy who pretty much like he
literally wrote the book on this story. He was a well known UFO researcher back
in the day, authoring books on some of the most famous UFO and alien abduction
cases like the Betty and Barney Hill abduction. So he wasn't like just some
(13:21):
UFO enthusiast. Like he was like a meticulous, dedicated guy. And he really
threw himself at these cases to try and get to the bottom of these stories. He
was already well established at the time, like super credible. So when these guys
came to him, like they knew like he was their guy. But I don't know what his
credentials were for like fucking around in people's brains. You know what I mean?
(13:42):
I don't recommend it if you don't have any credentials. Yeah, well, whatever. But
anyway, so under the guidance of Fowler, all four of the men agreed to go under
separate regressive hypnosis set. I can't say this without stumbling to go under
separate regressive hypnosis sessions to try and uncover what had happened during
those missing hours. And boy, did they uncover some fucking stuff. Are you ready
(14:03):
for this shit? No, I'm so ready. I'm I'm very excited. This is actually so
hypnotic regression is actually something that I know a little bit about
not only for researching the episode, but also just in my ancillary research into
the satanic panic. So I'm a bit of a fan of pseudosciences that don't actually
(14:27):
work and actually cause bigger problems. Don't get your skeptic hat on just yet.
Let me let's you know, there's a time and place for this. All right. Sorry. I'm
just throbbing right now. I'm ready. So each of the men described being taken
aboard a craft where they were separated immediately upon entry. Classic alien
move. They were led into different rooms that they described as being cold,
(14:48):
metallic and eerily sterile. There, the aliens began their experiments. Now,
what kind of experiments you may be asking? But stuff always just the
stuff. It's super awesome, highly invasive experiments you'd expect from
aliens. Needles were inserted inserted into their heads, their arms, spines,
dick and balls. Yep. Yeah, sounds about right. The being seem particularly
(15:12):
interested in collecting reproductive material. They collected semen, blood.
They even scraped off skin samples with what looked like a metallic curved
planar that they put on their chest. You know, like a planar, like a what? Yeah.
Yeah. No, I know what you're talking about. At least that's like how I
interpreted what was being described. Yeah. No, no matter what you're picturing,
it's probably just as worse. Yeah. No, they described the creatures performing
(15:36):
these tasks as having large black almond shaped eyes, spindly limbs and grayish
skin. The beings never spoke to the men directly. Instead, they quote unquote
talked directly into their minds. The telepathy. OK, they were saying stuff
like you will not be harmed and this is necessary. Necessary for what? You may be
asking. They did not clarify. No, they never do. They never do. They're like
(16:00):
this is necessary. Now bend over and spread them cheeks. Boy, no, I think I
think one of the creepiest parts is so did the men who experienced it was just
like how like detached the being seem like there's no motion, but there's also
no malice and also no no empathy like they just purely clinical detachment from
their subjects, which makes sense when you think about it, because like when
(16:24):
human beings are testing on animals, we're like, don't worry about this. But
we have no idea. You know, when they shoot an animal with a tranquilizer
dart, like I'm sure it hurts them. I'm sure they don't enjoy it. Oh, no. But
also like if you're just seeing something as a scientific subject, you're not
thinking about. Yeah, no, it's yeah. But anyway, so that's what they remember.
(16:45):
That's what they got from this whole regressive therapy thing. Super fucked up.
I would want to forget it, too. And I honestly think that if I came out of the
hypnosis, like I would just be like, fuck you, Fowler, like maybe forget again.
Like now they just have to live with that now. Yeah. Thanks for the help, you
dick. Right. Like what do you do? Like now you have to go to like actual real
therapy to like get over it. Right. No, you just I don't need this shit in my
(17:09):
life. I was better off not remembering. I can deal with one or two nightmares
every couple of months. Yeah. So basically. So that was that was their story.
But I mean, that is if we believe their story, you know, and why should we?
Well, for starters, they all describe the same exact events during their
hypnosis sessions down to like the smallest details. And they were conducted
(17:31):
separately. So it's not like they could bounce ideas off of one another. Second,
they all also went underwent polygraph tests. Now, I know polygraph tests are
like super fucking foolproof, but it's worth noting that not one of them showed
any signs of deception when they were recounting their experiences. And then
another reason why it's kind of believable is their artwork, especially
(17:52):
gyms. Remember, these are fucking art kids, by the way. Right. Right. Right.
Art students. It is hauntingly vivid. And if you get a chance to look it up,
definitely do. But his sketches are detailed, like the bees got every vein
on his testicles. The beings, the craft and even like the instruments they used
on them. It gives the story some kind of like a really unsettling, like
(18:16):
tangibility to it. Like it's not just some like abstract idea. Like the
incident clearly left a mark on him, but. Not everyone believes this story, and
there are always going to be skeptics. Some argue that what the foreman
experience could have been natural phenomena. For instance, the lights in the
sky may have been ball lightning. Some also suggest that it could also have
(18:38):
been experimental aircraft. Now, I personally don't buy either of those.
Ball lightning is crazy rare, especially in Maine. It was obviously swamp gas.
And the the Allagash, like it's so fucking remote that there's no way
there's an experimental Air Force base out there. Yeah. I mean, why? Why would
(18:59):
they do it there? Why wouldn't they do it over the desert where it's flat? So if
the plane goes down, it's easy to find. Yeah. It also doesn't explain like the
missing time or the vivid memories uncovered during their hypnosis, which
brings us to our next skeptic viewpoint. Regressive hypnosis. Sarge, you're kind
of like a mini expert on this. Oh, man. You want to cover this one? I am what it
(19:20):
is and why it's kind of bullshit. OK, so hypnotic regression is a practice of
hypnotizing patients to access repressed memories. So practitioners believe that
by putting patients into a state of hypnosis, the typical inhibitions of our
mind are weakened enough to access the more remote areas of memory. So to
understand this type of therapy, it's also important to first understand why
(19:42):
someone would want to access these memories like you actually touched on a
little bit like I would rather just not remember this. Yeah, just let me forget.
Yeah, but not not to Sarge plane here, but humans use memory to inform future
decision making. Obviously, we all know that. Yeah. And this is an easy way for
our minds to help navigate, for instance, the best routes to get to a place that
(20:04):
we've already been to. Like, don't go this way. You know, there's a swamp in
the way you're going to get wet. Go this way instead, for instance, you don't
want to go down there. You can't get there from here. Get that from well. So
but this also helps us to survive. So for instance, if we touch a stove when it's
on the unpleasant memory, the pain that we receive the burn will remind us not
(20:25):
to touch the oven in the future. Natural Institute of Health reports that
negative memories are often more vivid than positive or neutral ones. And this
is why most people can remember even mild insults with a lot of clarity, but
can't remember what they had for breakfast yesterday. Yeah, explains a lot
of my shower thoughts. Yeah, yeah, mine too. I mean, I'm really trying not to
think of you in the shower, but it still comes up. Well, it is established that
(20:51):
negative memories can reinforce positive behaviors. Some negative memories are
also so traumatic that our brains are believed to retain them, but
unconsciously locked them away in an effort to protect us from vividly
reliving the trauma repressed memories. Now you said believe because I I should
probably should have done some research on this too, but I heard a thing that
like repressed memories aren't even really a thing. So I'll get there. I'll
(21:14):
get there. You're not far off. So some examples of what could be a repressed
memory would be experiences like childhood abuse, violent crime, natural
disasters, things like that. Yeah, the problem with so called repressed
memories is that while victims do not clearly remember the memory itself, our
bodies would still have the physiological response to some of the
circumstances that existed during the event in which the memory was created,
(21:37):
which could trigger stress, anxiety and panic. These circumstances could be
different smells, different sounds or even something as simple as a strong
breeze. In my case as a veteran with PTSD, I'm triggered by the smell of
metal shipping containers, large crowds in the area around the finish line of
the Boston Marathon. But because I do not suffer from repressed memories, I
can take steps to mitigate that. However, with people who have repressed
(22:00):
memories, they won't know what's going to trigger them until it's too late.
It's believed that accessing these repressed memories will give therapists
the opportunity to treat the symptoms and potentially desensitize the patient
to more common triggers. While there are many practitioners of this form of
therapy, there are just as many, if not more detractors. The argument against
repressed memory itself is pretty complex. There's a whole rabbit hole you
(22:22):
can fall down if you're so inclined. I'm just going to try to simplify it with
three main points. First one, memories are copies of copies of copies. Science
now believes that when we are remembering something, we're actually just making a
new memory based on the details we retained from the old memories. In that
practice, some of the clarity is lost. So the emotion remains strong associated
with the memory itself, but the memory becomes more an amalgamation than a
(22:46):
verbal retelling. So this is why an eyewitness testimony alone can be a
hindrance to a case. Think of like the cross-examination scenes from my cousin
Vinnie. The research into repressed memory found that people are more likely
just forgetting things than actually repressing them. And evolutionarily, this
kind of makes a lot of sense because if there was a super
(23:08):
traumatic event, why would you mind hide them from you? It would only
protect you to remember it. So you would have a much better chance of surviving.
So if you remember why there's a strong breeze, then you know why it's making you
panic and why you should avoid it. And then finally, the instance of repressed
memory, purely anecdotal, there's no way to measure a repressed memory with any
(23:32):
sort of reliability. Now, the arguments against hypnotic regression are also
kind of complex, so I'll simplify with really just this one kind of big bullet
point I put together. So hypnosis is an effective treatment for behaviors
because under hypnosis, the subject of the hypnotism is highly open to
suggestion. It can help people overcome undesirable habits or encourage people
(23:55):
to engage in desirable habits. However, even skilled, well-meaning hypnotists
are incapable of telling real memories from false ones. So when they use
hypnosis to bring up these repressed memories, they don't know what they're
bringing up. They don't know if it's real or not. And the reason for that is that
repressed memories are, you're almost in like a dreamlike state when you're
(24:16):
under hypnosis. It's not the same as a dream, but it's very similar. Your mind
kind of... Sounds kind of like a sleep paralysis kind of thing. Exactly.
For instance, what was experienced during the hypnotic regression sessions
during the satanic panic of the late 70s and mid 90s through the mid 90s is that
many of these repressed memories were actually just false memories
(24:37):
inadvertently created by the hypnosis practitioner because hypnosis is so
closely linked to dreaming. I was going to say, this is one of the big things
is that when they're under, when they're in this state, they can... The person
doing the hypnosis can kind of ask leading questions and kind of give you
leading... Exactly. And then you just kind of form that shit in your own brain.
And then they're like, oh shit, see, I was right. Which is why I'm not really
(25:01):
super swayed by the fact that all of their stories matched up because of course
their stories matched up. Yeah. It's the same guiding principle. Exactly.
The one common denominator between all of them is like, he could be like, if
Jack was under and he's like, no, Jim saw this. Did you see this as well?
He's like, oh shit, yeah, I definitely saw the dude getting blamed a lot.
(25:22):
Yeah. And it becomes a sort of yes and situation. So the therapist may not
always be trying to implant memories. They may just be trying to get to the
bottom of the truth when you've got a true believer like this guy who is a
UFO researcher. I don't think he did the actual thing, but he was present in
the room. So he might've been... Yeah. So he's probably yes ending his whole way
(25:44):
through it. And back in the 70s and 80s, they really didn't fully understand how
suggestible people were in hypnotic regressions. A good example of the
satanic panic style hypnotic regression is a book called Michelle Remembers.
Oh fuck. This book was written by a highly unethical therapist who with the
help of his patient uncovered alleged satanic ritual abuse only for the accused
(26:08):
of the abuse to refute these claims with undeniable proof, such as locations
that supposedly these crimes were committed in, never existing. It was, it
was, it was a, there's a Martin preschool case. You're thinking of the
McMartin trial, which happened in California. Michelle Remembers was a
Canadian story. Okay. But there was also kind of the same thing where they were
saying that underneath the school, there was like a bunch of tunnels and stuff.
(26:32):
They dug up the school and didn't find nothing. It wasn't there. But also, so in
Michelle Remembers, another highlight, Satan actually makes a physical
appearance apparently, which is just bad shit insane. And as for the unethical
behavior, just so you don't think I'm trying to ad hom this guy, I want you to
fully understand aside from exploiting as highly suggestible patient, the
(26:55):
therapist, Dr. Lawrence Pasder later married this same patient, the subject of
the book while continuing to treat her and promote himself as an expert in
satanic ritual abuse, a thing with which never actually existed. So that is why I
am not a huge believer in satanic regression. I mean, I'm hypnotic
regression. It's just insane. But that makes you think that maybe you planted
(27:19):
in her mind that he, she loved him. Yes. Yes. That is what I believe. Yes.
Because she was, she was basically 18 or 20, I think at the time he started this
and he was in his like forties, he was married with kids. Maybe he was just,
maybe he was just hot as hot doc, dude. He was just a hot doc. He's a doctor's
(27:41):
daddy. Yeah. So basically the skeptics saying that regression therapy is
bullshit. And I agree a hundred percent. I don't, I think that the whole repressed
memory thing is very false memory adjacent to the whole thing. Like, so I
(28:03):
agree with that. And they actually say that people are really bad at
determining whether they have a false memory or, or a repressed memory. Oh, I'm
sure that half my memories aren't real. I think I made up most, most of my
backstory is probably all fake. I've no idea. I can't tell you how many times I
remembered something and then only to talk to somebody who was there and they
(28:25):
were like, no, it didn't happen that way. Yeah. It's just, it's how our brains
work. Yeah. I, but the thing is I believe to remember the things that I want to
remember. Yes. I'll try to remember the more positive version of the story,
regardless of who remembered it. Yeah. And I'm not, I'm not saying that I'm
skeptical of this abduction. Honestly. I actually kind of liked the idea of it. I
(28:47):
want to hear more about it, but in terms of the hypnosis aspect of it, pure
bullshit, full on. Yeah. So the other things that the skeptics are saying
besides, you know, natural phenomenon, fake fucking military air bases in the
Northern Maine and the regression therapy is that some are saying that this case
(29:08):
just may be all made up. Like, I mean, but that's always a good possibility, but
that's also like what every fucking skeptic says. I mean, like if that was the
case, like why stick to the story for decades? Why go through all the troubles
of like the hypnosis, the polygraph tests and endure like the scrutiny of public
(29:29):
opinion, which basically what we're kind of doing now doesn't seem really worth
it. But also this theory kind of, it doesn't help that the fact that Chuck
decades later would claim that parts of his story were exaggerated and then
recanted much of his experience. He also said the men were highest block before
going, I was really hoping it would eventually get to that point because I
(29:51):
was, I was pretty confident that somebody was high, but they, but they, they said
that they, they smoked a bunch of hash, which I don't think makes you hallucinate.
I'm pretty sure it's basically just like weed resin is like it's, it's weed. It's
cannabis. I'm not super familiar with hash. The one time I smoked it. I, I
didn't hallucinate. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Not really familiar with what it
(30:14):
is. Somebody just handed it to me and I, it's nothing. It's not like, so they
weren't like fucking like tripping on acid, which is kind of weird because it
was the seventies. You think that would be the case, but no, they did. There's
a bunch of hash like before they went on the lake that night. And then he, he
claimed that this is also part of like a get rich quick scheme. And the four of
them thought that they could make a pretty penny by telling their story. Okay.
(30:38):
But, but he also still claims that he did see a craft and he said that he did feel
like they were being watched while out there. And so I don't, so I don't know
what his deal is, but the other three men still defend their stories and they no
longer speak to Chuck. So, okay. Yeah. So maybe, I mean, I don't know. I think, I
(31:02):
think there's a really good possibility that the hypnotic regression therapy
probably implanted a little bit of this story. So for somebody like Chuck, you
know, they'd lost some time. They were smoking hash. So if it's anything like
weed, it's going to kill a good portion of time. Yeah. I've certainly smoked
enough where I brain dumped an entire evening. Yeah. And then you're like, why,
(31:26):
how the fuck did I end up on my couch eating ice cream? Exactly. Like if you ever,
if you ever like gone out with friends and smoked and then you just, your memory
turns back on and you're in your house and you're like, I hope to God I didn't
drive. Right. But it's also like, it seems like, or maybe Chuck's brain is just
(31:48):
more like he's more, he's not as susceptible to hypnosis as the others. And
then he's so like, he realized like, wait, like this didn't fucking happen. Like
it's actually interesting that you say that maybe, maybe he was yes. And the
other guy was like, I don't remember if I was like, I don't remember that. I
don't remember. I was like, I was like, I don't remember that night. Maybe that
day that is what happened. And maybe I just made out with those two brothers.
(32:11):
Yeah. Maybe I don't know needle in my Dick and balls. Maybe they were just
sounding me. Exactly. Exactly. That could be the case. So maybe Chuck is the one
who's like, no, you guys listen, this is not a thing. And they're like, no, fuck
you, Chuck. We remember now. And he's like, all right, fine. Whatever. Like a
whole experiment in college, Chuck, you were at art school in Boston in the
seventies. I mean, come on, there's nothing wrong with it. You drive a truck
(32:35):
once. It doesn't make you a truck driver and no one's judging you. You know, I, I
don't care if you guys got it on like, yeah, you try and stuff out. But, but
whether you believe it or not, the Allagash abductions, like they remain one
of the most iconic cases in UFO lore. Like, well, it may not be like as well
known as some of the others. It is often cited alongside like the Travis Walton
(32:59):
fire in the sky. Yeah. I was thinking a lot of the correlations with Travis
Walton story. Kind of like that. And then also like the Betty and Barney Hill
abduction as like, this is one of the most credible and chilling encounters, I
guess you could say. I love that story too. I mean, we've talked about this
before, but I love going up to that gas station. Yeah. The one, the mural across
from where they were abducted and go to the mural. I frigging love it. It's like a
(33:23):
religious experience for me. Yeah. So I mean, like in this, this case also helped
popularize the idea of an alien abduction as not just like a solitary event, but
something that could happen to like a group of people, which added like a new
layer of complexity to the whole like UFO abduction phenomenon. So whether it
happened or not, it definitely, it shed some light on some stuff in the community
(33:44):
that people were starting to take notice of. So that's kind of cool. Yeah. I think
it kind of makes this story more accessible to, to people too. And just in
terms of them being like, oh my God, like I go camping with my buddies sometimes,
you know? Yeah. I give them smooches around the webs. I would actually love to see,
I would love to see a UFO when I'm out camping. That'd be so frigging cool. I mean,
(34:06):
I, I've been out camping. I've seen satellites go by. I mean, I wouldn't want to
fucking put a needle in my dick and balls, but I don't want to be sounded by
aliens for sure. I mean, I, I mean, well, I mean, I guess it depends how drunk I am,
how I'm feeling, how hot are the aliens? Yeah. They didn't, they didn't sound hot.
No, they didn't. No, they didn't. But yeah, I want to believe this story is true.
(34:29):
I do. I do too. Especially cause it happened in our own backyard. I mean, we can
drive up to Allagash. Yeah. I'm realizing now that like, I just kind of ended the
story and went straight into the theory. So that's because like, I couldn't find
like any back, like they didn't like go home and then talk to the media. You know
what I mean? Like it wasn't like one of those days where like you hear about it
in the newspapers for like a bunch of, and then everyone in town is shitting on
(34:51):
them and like fucking calling them frauds. She liked that. Like, so it kind of
just is that it's like their story. They found the dude, they did the hypnosis
and then, you know, the guy wrote a book about it later. And then like, it wasn't
so like, I think the nineties or whatever that unsolved mysteries, the original
one did a story. But even then, like, I don't remember hearing it. I had never
(35:14):
heard of this case until now. So I mean, I'm never convinced by the get rich quick
scheme angle when people talk about that for these stories, because no one is ever
in the history of alien abductions gotten rich because they got abducted by
aliens. True. I mean, Travis Walton got a movie made about him. I don't know if he
made money. I don't think he's rich though. Oh God, no, not by any means. Yeah.
But I mean, he's probably better off than fucking Chuck. Yeah, that's true. I mean,
(35:38):
all he did, all he did was surprise me with the fact that there's a town called
Snowflake in fucking New Mexico. That's how did that happen? You know, wishful
thinking, I guess, or maybe global war. Maybe there was a one point. We don't
know. But I actually, I met somebody from Snowflake and I was like, Oh my God,
fire in the sky. And she was considerably younger than I was. She's a college
(36:01):
student. She's like, what are you talking about? I'm like, forget it. Don't worry
about it. You wouldn't get it. No, so they have it kind of more relaxed episode.
We didn't really go too hard on anything. Nothing too crazy except for the
sounding thing. You know, I want to believe the story is true. Like something,
I do too. Something definitely happened to the men out there, whether they,
whether they just high saw fucking weird light in the sky and then forgot, or
(36:26):
maybe they did get full on sounded by grays. Who knows? Or maybe it was a
little bit of both. Maybe they just had a passionate night of wonderful carnal
experiences in the deep dark remote recesses of the main forest. Well, I mean
they didn't not leave for another 10 days. So exactly. You know, maybe they
were like, Hey, we need to explain all these weird scars in our body. Exactly.
(36:51):
All right. So what do you, what do you think about this story? I like it. I want
to go camping there. I want to go right now. It sounds like a nightmare. Not
right now. It's cold and shitty, but we should go there and record a podcast
from these woods. All right. See what happens. Maybe we'll get fucking. Yeah.
Just see what happens. You know, just get up there. Just the male urge to get
(37:12):
abducted with your boys. Yeah, exactly. I got FOMO. The masculine urge to get
sounded by aliens next to your boys. Sometimes I wonder if some of these alien
abduction stories are just a way for like some really repressed dudes to just
get some of their fantasies out. All right. Sorry. That's the end of the
(37:36):
episode. I think we did okay for our first episode back in 2025. Maybe we
nailed it. I have no idea. Fucking who knows? All right. Is there anything you
want to, you want to plug before we? Yes. The coloring book is still live.
Saj's super normal.com. Get a coloring book and color your pain away. Also on
Friday. I'm going on Scotch fully yours with some buddies of mine. Is he going to
(38:02):
air Friday or is it going to? I don't know. I'll put out some stuff on the
internet. I'll post something on the socials so that people can tune in
appropriately. I'll, I'll support it. Doug, who is one of the co-hosts that I
know. It's a great guy. I'm sure we're going to have a good time. Hell yeah. Yeah.
If you want to keep up with what's going on with Saj, you can follow him on all
(38:24):
of the socials at Saj's destroyer on most platforms. Yeah. Just Google Saj
destroyer. You'll find it. Yeah. Or you can find all of the socials at the link
in our Instagram, which you can follow at Crypto cocktail. You follow us on
TikTok, Crypto cocktail party. Please leave us a rating and review. It's super
helps. Tell your friends to listen to the show. Even if you don't, you know, even
if they don't like it, you know, just get them to listen to one episode. That's their problem, not yours.
(38:46):
You, you, you led them to water, make them drink it. Steal their phone, download
every episode and then leave a rating and review as them. Yes. I think that's
encouraged. I think that works for me. I smoke some hash first so they don't
remember. Yeah. It might be fraud, but I don't give a fuck. It's not really like,
it's only fraud if you get caught. I mean, it's not like a criminal fraud. Yeah.
(39:08):
It's like a, it's like a little rap scallion fraud is what that is. Yeah. It's
very new, encourageable, scallywag. It's a very tiny Tim crime. Yeah. Yeah. All
right. Thanks so much everyone. 2025 is going to be our year. I could feel it.
And I think with that out of the way, Sarge, do you want to say goodbye? And I love you to the audience.
(39:29):
Goodbye. And I love you guys.
(39:59):
Yeah.
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