April 24, 2025 • 34 mins
Are you holding back your best work?
On this episode of Culture Raises US, host Astor sits down with renowned
artist Hebru Brantley to talk about the importance of releasing your creativity
into the world. Hebru shares why you shouldn’t let fear or perfectionism keep
your projects hidden away, and what it truly means to “die empty.”
Tune in for a powerful conversation about the realities of being a creative,
building a legacy, and the cycles of influence that shape our communities.
Whether you’re an artist, a dreamer, or simply looking for inspiration to take
your next step, this episode will challenge you to share your gifts—before it’s
too late.
Listen now on iHeart, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your
podcasts.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
To who much is given, much is required. Part of
that requirement is sharing. Culture is the heartbeat within our lives,
and it's at the core of so many things. While
we live in a time when we are starving for wisdom,
I welcome you to your wisdom retreat that culture raises us.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I failed my way to success. I just wasn't afraid,
so I would always rather try than not.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Hebrew Brantly is an American contemporary artist known for his distinctive,
narrative driven work. He's had countless exhibitions to date, as
collaborated with a host of brands that span from Adidas
to A Few Blows, to name a few. His roster
of notable collectors includes Lebron, jay Z and Beyonce and
George Lucas.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
An artist is the great of their time. The work
that they do is representative of that time in which
they existed in I think my work generated a sense
of hope and wonder. Once I kind of started to
see that response that the work brought about in people,
I really leaned into it. You don't want to like
die and leave a legacy, or your albums on the
(01:02):
computer die empty.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
What do you think is a thing that separates creatives
that make it to the ones that don't.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
To good question.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
When you hear culture, what does that mean to you?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
If I'm honest, it doesn't mean the same thing it
used to.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Please honestly, is what we need right now?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I think culture is like one of those yes, you know,
for me, culture meant something different, right, It meant it
was a little bit more inclusive, you know. But again
now I don't know what it really means. Right. It's
sort of lost its it's flavor, it's lost its meaning,
it's lost its death. I think, you know, too many
(01:41):
people reach for that word to try to identify something
or put something in context.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
What did you once define it as? What did it
once mean to you?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I think culture just really identified with sort of a
unique conversation around who I am and who I identify
myself as right as it relates to community and you know,
sub any community, but like within hip hop culture, within
you know, arts culture, within music, film, whatever that is.
(02:15):
But I think that you know, it was it was
a word used to identify, you know, sort of subgroups
and folks that held sort of a deeper belief in meaning,
you know, and you know, moved sort of with a
different purpose purpose.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yeah, yeah, and there's a I definitely agree and hear
you on a number of those elements. And I think
that's why these conversations are so important, because I feel
like culture, as diluted as it's become in certain spaces,
is still super important because I think it's a through
line of a number of things. I mean, a number
of us have grown up in cultures, of a number
(02:50):
of us have helped shape cultures. But you're right, it's
been taken by many and been diluted stretched. But the
hope is we can find some sense of what it
means and now utilize it in all the right ways.
It was amazing to see you at Art Basle. That
was my first art Basle, So the irony of seeing
(03:12):
you in such a prominent position touched my heart. Touched
my heart. And I think it's no coincidence that art
and culture are so closely attached because I look at
you know, artists being something that has a great influence
when it's made, but then also great influence years later,
very much like the responsibility we have with cultures. So
(03:35):
what role do you think artists like yourself kind of
play in shaping and guiding and pushing society intoday's what
we call culture.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
It's a good question. I think it's the same as
it's always been when you look historically, right at the
forefront of any movement, behind that are the artists, you know,
And I think that it's the same now in that
in that way. However, again, the sort of over monetization
(04:07):
of the word and the idea has diluted that a bit.
But I think, you know, and then we don't necessarily,
you know, we're not in the same space in terms
of who we look towards for that sense of culture,
that sense of identity, right. I think you know, a
lot of the people that are followed and the people
(04:27):
that are sort of put up on that pedestal are
not creatives, right.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
And the influences who've been influenced by a check or brand,
which is wild I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
No, it's it's it's it's it's it's it's like the
it's like the the what is it the I don't know,
it's it's it's a revolving door, right. That that's of
the same thing. People that are influencers who've been influenced
and will continue to be influenced by you know, larger energies,
you know, initiatives. But yeah, I think you know, artists
(05:01):
have always sort of defined that, you know, and you
look at even to the point of, like you know,
real estate, right, Like, the artists move into an area,
the artists populate that space. The artists make it cool.
The companies come in, they they move in, they make
(05:23):
the area unaffordable for the artists. Other people come in
populate the area for far more money, right like Rinse
jacked up, and then the artists have to go and
sort of do the same thing all over again. Yeah,
and it happens everywhere. But you know, I don't I
don't mean to sound bitter. I'm just you know, I
think that, like, you know, now, currently the role of
(05:45):
the artist is, in my opinion, is more important than
it ever has been, because we need artists, right because
you know, especially in a society facing this whole debate
on you know, artificial intelligence and the manipulation of images
and media, you know, you need the truth and you know,
(06:08):
creators are the only ones that can sort of bring
that truth forward, right, And you know, it's always an
uphill battle, It's a struggle.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
You know, you're built for it.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah, I'm definitely built.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
I listen, I have no choice, right, we do choices,
You've chosen.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yes, I'm in it. I'm too deep in it. This
is what I'm saying. Like that, I'm already I'm already
way off in the water. I'm not going back.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
No, listen and talk about the water that you're in,
because I think as you talk about that, i'd love
to hear how you're remaining true to what you know
is the responsibility right now and the need you're right
of creatives to lead.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
At the risk of sounding like an old head, right like,
I just I feel like tradition is one of the
most powerful ideas that we have as a people, not
just as a you know, black people, but as people
as humans. And you know, I think that where in
(07:07):
a lot of ways, And this again could be just
age or speaking from a certain perspective, but I feel like,
you know, when you lose a sense of tradition, we
lose a sense of ourselves and we slip sort of
further and further away from you know where. Yeah, and
so I think that, you know, for someone like myself,
(07:27):
you know, I can only speak or create from a
place of honesty, and that place of honesty is a
culmination of experience and just again sort of creating from
a place of like these are my collective memories, this
is my collective experience and and understanding sort of where
(07:50):
we've come from and and you know, helping that, letting
that help dictate where we're going to it to a
greater degree.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
So what was that one mindset shift that kind of
changed things for you?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I think when I started to apply that that mindset
of like fuck it right and not being afraid to fail.
And I said all the time, like I failed my
way to success and I just wasn't afraid to right.
And it's like I'd rather I just being in a
(08:25):
position to where I would always rather try than not,
you know, try and fail then have not tried at all.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah. You know when I met you years ago, we
worked together on a collaboration of Adidas Thank you to Pharrell,
my cousin French, cousin Luke in BBC. You know I
knew then the amazing creative that you were. How what's
the process in choosing who you work with and your why,
(08:55):
because I think that also plays a key role in
kind of how you just answered the last question, right.
A lot of this journey you're not taking on your own,
it comes with sometimes working with others.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
What's your process, Well, it's always it's always has to
sort of come from an honest place, like I don't
I'm not in the in the in the in the
in the market to take on collabse that like are
just for the money, right, Like there you know, as
a person that's worked for a big brand, right, you know,
(09:25):
it's about like the effectiveness comes into storytelling, right, And
for me it's it's a lot of that where like
you know, the collaborations and the things that I've done
in the past with bigger brands and companies. For me,
it's like what's the story between me and that product
and me and that brand? And so you know, for
(09:47):
a Didas again, the correlation between like my upbringing and
hip hop, what Adidas meant, what Adidas means was was
was there? It was easy, right, And it's a it's
a product that I use and I wear and I
believe in. So why not collaborate and try to make something,
you know, to elevate again my creativity to stretch a
little bit and do that thing. So I think it's
(10:08):
it's it always sort of starts from there, like I'm
not gonna put my name on something that I don't
you know, really rock with, right.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Right, So as your work evolves and experiences continue to
kind of shape your perspective, what topics are their themes
that you want to delve into or try to get
more involved in.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Good question, you know, I tend to play around with,
you know, in my work, I've dealt with themes of
like you know, of heroism, of afrofuturism, you know, and
this idea of like I've said it a million times,
but like empowerment over power, right, because it's such a
(10:54):
real thing, you know, where we don't have, you know. Again,
the the the stance on community is a lot different
from when I grew up to what it is now, right,
And I think that like, you know, we don't have
those icons anymore, those heroes anymore, you know, and you know,
(11:18):
we've sort of we're left out to to see without
you know, some some sort of guidance for real. For
and again, not to say that we're completely lost or
anything like that, but I just feel like, you know,
a lot of the work and that the attention that
I put into the work in terms of thematics, is
like focusing on that and and that level of like
(11:40):
upliftment and and for me, I kind of unintentionally tapped
into something where I think my work kind of generated
a sense of like hope and wonder. And I think
that once I kind of started to see that response
that the work brought about in people, I really leaned
(12:02):
into it. You know, there is a bit of like
a satirical side to the work, and I think as
I get older, I try not to lose that, even
though it's hard, right, It's harder to find hope, it's
harder to stay and be optimistic at times. Right. You know,
(12:23):
the older you get, the further the curtain gets kind
of pulled back, right, the more you see, right. And
so I think now, you know, it's it's a bit
of that, but I think it's stretching, right, It's it's
as I've grown just as a man, as an artist.
You know, the work I think has grown both within
the context of it and also the aesthetic. And you know,
(12:44):
right now, I've just been exploring a lot of different
a lot a lot more different themes. But I feel
like it's really important. You know, it's a very well
known artist and collagist Romer Bearden.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Oh please, man huge, So the same our basil. You know,
they had a whole deal for Beard. I have a
wild stuff. Can I jump in on this? So growing
up in New York City apartment building, I had a gentleman.
You know, growing up an apartment building, the family is
the village that lives in the apartment building. You got
the babysitter that might be on the ninth floor, or
(13:19):
you might go stay with your friend on the tenth
floor with his parents, whatever. But there was a gentleman,
Russell Goings, who I will never forget, one of the
smartest men I've ever known in my life, wise wise wise,
wise wise. And he was an art collector. And so
now I'm talking with my youthful years, so this is
the ninety eighties. And he would talk about and he
would have art all over his apartment, all over the place.
(13:43):
To come to find out, he was like best friends
with Roal Mayor and Bearden. And he has one of
the deepest collections of pieces and artifact from Bearding. And
I didn't even get the GISTs of it then, but
he would always school me and educate me on art
because I was so I went to high school for art.
So this was a piece that he helped injecting me
(14:05):
of getting familiar with a prominent black artist. And just
when I think about Beard, and I think about his
use of collage, because that was his specialty, I look
at how that correlates into collaborations. Yeah right, because when
you look at collages is how do you bring all
these different materials and things together to work to create
something new and special. So as you just mentioned that
(14:28):
and then going back to our basle where they now finally,
I'm hoping the Romeor Bearding story is going to be
told and more people learn about him. But I love
that you just share that, So please go on, because
you pinched a nerve because not a lot of people
know about Romeo Beard. And then I had the fortune
of growing up in a building where one of his best.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Friends, Yeah, you had a like a seat.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
No, He's like grabbing pieces and showing me on the
ground and I'm like okay, And now I'm like, damn,
I wish i'd have known really then.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
But that's like we all have those moments. I wish
I would.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
So go ahead, So you're bringing a beard, Well, I
was bringing.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Up beer just just for the fact of, like, you know,
there's a quote that I'm gonna butcher. But the effectively
it to surmise it is like, you know, an artist
is basically the sort of great of their time, right
They are the the you know, the storyteller of their time.
You know. The work that they do is representative of
(15:29):
that time in which they existed in. And so for
me as as an artist, that's known for you know,
sort of reaching back in history and then moving past
history to sort of a future context and then more
of a fantastical sort of approach in certain aspects, I
(15:50):
kind of, you know, have been more focused on right now.
And so I think that like you know, I don't,
but a lot of the work that I've been really
interested in doing speaks to now versus you know, versus
you know, here then there over here. It's right now
(16:11):
because I feel like, you know, we're living in a
very very interesting time and you know, we have to
we gotta we gotta talk about it, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
But that's that's tough because a couple of things when
you talk about the right now, the right now is
constantly changing every day, So is that how is that
staying right now but to the point of not living
in the future and not living in the past, because
I can even think for myself and I'm sure for you,
life feels like it's so much faster now, way faster,
like children everything. And I think it's because we're always
(16:41):
looking towards that next milestone, and by putting something on
that next milestone, you're now eliminating everything that's happening in between.
So it's like this fast forward. So it seems like
because I feel like it was just yesterday that I
was celebrating last year's New Year's, not this one last
year's because it's all so fast. So how do you
(17:02):
discipline yourself to truly stay in the now and creating
that space, because that's tough, it is.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
I think one of the cheat codes is that you know,
I create fast, right, and so it is more of
like it's like journaling in a diary, you know. And
these pieces that I've been working on definitely represent moments
(17:31):
to me, at least they represent certain moments, you know,
of this second half of my journey. But the idea
is to not be so precious in terms of my
execution and output. You know DJ Jazzy Jeff I heard
(17:52):
him say like on a podcast. You know, he was
talking about as it pertained to like producers, right, and
he was saying, you don't want to like die and
leave you know, a legacy or your albums on a computer.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Because you didn't want to release them because they weren't perfect.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Right, you know, and like die empty and so that that,
I don't know, that just really struck a chor with me.
And you know, it might not necessarily be the best advice,
but I think that you know, I have a lot
to say. I'm interested in a lot, right, and you know,
(18:29):
I don't want to, you know, be facing my maker
at any point feeling full and feeling like there's still
so much I have to do. I mean, there will
always be those things, but correct, but ultimately, I think
when it comes to my my my craft, I want
to I want to put it all out there, you know.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
And so that's what helps you to get things out
in a timely fashion. You you spoke on something just
now alluded to interesting times, I mean, and given this
state of things, we're in very interesting times, what are
you doing specifically to kind of ensure that the cultures
and the spaces that you frequent are being nurtured properly.
(19:12):
And what would you recommend for other creatives and consumers
to do in these very interesting times?
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I don't you know, hmm, that's a good question. I
think for me, at least it more now than at
any point in my journey, I've been really focused on community.
And you know I say community, I mean, you know
those that do what I do or something adjacent, right,
(19:46):
building and nurturing a tribe in that way, and you know,
checking in on other creatives, my people, having dialogues with them,
you know, I think that that's a way through, you know,
if we're all talking, right, if we're all in dialogue,
learning from one another, different experiences and so forth, is
(20:10):
hypercritical right to understand what's going on in certain spaces
and not leave that up to social media to dictate
the times and where people are going and where things
are headed. Because again, like I say, like firm believer
that you know, artists and creators we dictate the culture
and what's to come, right, And I'm just you know,
I'm curious to understand and know what this person over
(20:33):
here is thinking. And what they're focused on, and you
know what's interesting them right now, and you know versus
this one over here, and you know, it's that level
of information. I think that helps all of us grow,
right because at the end of the day, like we're
all creatives, we're not in competition with one another. You know,
the competition is inward, not outward, and we all have
(20:56):
a responsibility to you know, the greater narrative. And so
for me, it's been really fun because you know, being
a creative man, you can you can be a hermit,
you know, and it's easy before you know it, like
you know, weeks months go past, you haven't heard from
this person and you haven't reached out or you know,
(21:18):
life it starts life in right, and you know, it's
I just feel like it's just important, man, Like you know,
we're starting to I'm getting to the age too where
like you start losing people, right, losing you know, family,
losing friends, losing idols, right, heroes, and so you know,
(21:40):
it's it's just it's really important to ah, you know,
to keep in foster that sense of like community.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I think part of you know, that question of the
interesting times, you know, d and I now has become
a you know, it's been a topic and when looking
at how that really ended up helping white women more
than any other group, what are the things we need
to now ensure that diversity is reflected in the spaces
(22:14):
that we've shaped over decades of time.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
I don't know. I don't know. I don't pretend to know.
You know, I think it knee jerk response is like
it feels like that's a thing that starts top down
less bottom up. You know. I think that, you know,
Pharrell spoke about it just in the sense of those
(22:42):
that are sort of in power have a semblance of
power that are you know, people of color that have
come from certain backgrounds, like you know, collectivizing, right, And
that's always been a conversation, right, And you know, we
have spurts and we have moments, right. But the hardest
thing for us to do is like, you know, pull
(23:05):
in consistently, consistently, right. You know, there's so many different uh,
you know, there's so many other groups that do it
well right through time and creation. But like I think
we have such a hard time with it. But that
goes back to our history and you know, so forth.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
So many layers and I even look at, you know,
things like fasting right and in seasons of fasting, which
obviously can be more than food, alcohol and social media
and all that I look at, it is there like
a communal fast that you would advocate we move to
(23:43):
to help us get even more clarity, alignment, focused consistency.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
On social media.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
I think you were going to say that.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
It runs our life, that algorithm runs our life. We
can't find our way without it. It's become so habitual that, like,
you know, again, you find yourself, you find yourself doom
scrolling without even realizing you doing it right and you've
already sucked in. That's fifteen minutes going by your life right.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Time is everything.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
It's everything. I have young kids, and you know, it's
really hard to find that balance and strike that balance
with them, you know, to keep them off of tablets
and so forth, right, But you know, it's that thing
where like we're really adamant about how often they're able
to use not without a lack of you know, them
(24:35):
whining or complaining or asking for it. But I think that, like,
you know, for as long as I can regulate that
for them, because I noticed that, you know, without that,
what they go to is like my daughter reads, you
know what I mean, she'll pick up the book or
she'll pick up the pencil or the pen right, write
a story, you know, start to do some illustrations, paintings, right,
(25:00):
and there's a whole nother world if I just look
up right and we're all about to it's like the
de evolution too, which is so funny to me because
that like that evolutionary like chart where it's like monkey chromagnum. Man,
you know, it's like, we're going back is going to
(25:22):
be like this in a few years. They have back problems.
Hunched over staring into your phone. So yeah, man, don't
you just.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Do quite the image in my head that you're right?
Like literally? Yeah, yeah, So give me your perspective on
AI and how it's affected creatives to date and how
you might even see create affecting creators moving forward.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
We're doomed man terminator in the days now? No, you know, honestly,
I don't know. I think it's it's it's alarming in
certain aspects and then and others I can see certain benefits.
It's something that I don't think. I know, I know
a little bit, but I don't know enough about to
(26:09):
speak on just in terms of the potential applications that
exist right now, right you know, I see the helpfulness
that it can sort of bring for certain things, But
I think the thing that I fear is the level
of immediacy that it allows for. And with that, you know,
(26:33):
with us becoming more and more dependent upon machines and computers,
we become further detached from the human side of things,
and that can also bleed into making right art making
and aesthetics. And so I think that like, if we are,
you know, so reliant upon the immediacy of creation, you
(26:59):
know our aesthetics will suffer.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
So listen for the next generation of creatives, what would
you tell them that you wish somebody would have shared
with you earlier in your career?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
A lot? Actually, financial literacy is one, for sure. I
think understanding the game, understanding what to do when you
do first get a few dollars right tomorrow is not guaranteed,
and it's not We're not in the space where every
two weeks we're getting a check, you know, And so
(27:36):
to understand how to budget for your life is really important.
And I think the only other thing I would just
say is that you know, there is no absolute, no
other secret to the success of being an artist other
than you have to work your ass off to find
(27:56):
your voice. It's experimentation. You have to mix this thing
with this to see how it works, and then let
me record the results. All right, so that works, Gonna
take this now, I'm gonna rework the equation. And so
you know, you have to just work your ass off, right,
and you can't get discouraged by somebody else's expectation of
(28:19):
your vision.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
That sounds like a bar and a gem in general.
Of you have to define what success is and you
have to be unapologetic about that and not allow for
the programming or the society to define that for you,
because that's gonna send you in a total spiral. Have
you defined what success looks like for you?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
I have? I have. I think you know, for me,
success has changed, right that the definition and I think
right now, success is what I found. You know, I
got health, I've got wealth, I have love around you know,
(29:04):
and that's success, bro. You know, success is being able
to pay your mortgage on time, right, like family can eat,
kids can go to private school, get a good education
like that. Success to me, you know, it's not about
the other side of like, you know, the the glitz
(29:25):
and glamour, being seen, being known, you know, access to
certain things. That's for me. That's probably me personally. I
just think that, you know, that's it. Like when I
started out on this journey many many years ago, you know,
if I'm a name drop real quickly, I spent one
(29:47):
of the most amazing evenings with Jeffrey Wright and Most
Death just years and years ago, and I was just
like Man of Sponge. I was just asked brothers. I mean,
I know they were tired of me, right, but I
asked him a million and a half questions. And you know,
(30:08):
one of the things that Most said that was one
of the simplest things, was like, when he first, you know,
started rhyming and doing all this, all he ever wanted
to do right was being in a position where throughout
his entire life he can just make dope shit okay.
And I was like, that is as simple as that is.
(30:34):
That's not easy to do right, to live your life
and furnish your life by your creations alone and not
have to depend upon others and other sources to help,
you know, feed your family. And so for me, it
(30:54):
was like I just held that and again it's not
that profound, but it was just like, that's all I
want to do. I just want to make shit that
I think is dope, and hopefully other people will sort
of gravitate too, and that can help sustain my life,
my lifestyle. And yeah, that's it. And so for me
(31:15):
that was just that was you know, that's success, man.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
And it's inspiring. It's inspiring because when people start to
live by that, I think we start breaking down the
barriers of the programming or what the definition of success
has been put in us to think. It is right,
and it sounds freeing. Most of us gotta be one
of the freest people like his spirit, and just that
(31:40):
sentiment is super freeing. And you know what, to be honest,
that probably unlocked the freedom and you to be who
you are to date.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
It did with uncomplicated the pursuit, right. You know, it's like, oh, yeah,
I guess it is.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
That's simple, that simple. Let's make it that simple. What
do you think is a thing that separates creatives that
make it to the ones that don't.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Heart you know, it's a very vulnerable thing to put
yourself to put your yourself and your creativity out there
to be consumed and you know, digested by the world.
And you know to do that you got to have yeah,
you know, you got to have heart.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Well listen, I mean we could do this for days.
You know, we always end this by asking, you know,
what are the three seeds you'd want to leave with
the stewards of culture moving forward? So the three key things,
and again you've dropped so much, but if there are
three things that you would say, here are the things
that I think for us to be in good hands
(32:47):
of those who are going to help nurture and shape
this culture as we know it moving forward, that we
need to get back your one thousand percent correct as
you started with.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
At least two that come to minds like cultivation and
openness and openness being you know, sharing not gatekeeping. You know,
I didn't get here by myself, and you know no
(33:16):
one gets there alone. And I think that you know
a bit of that, you know, those particular people that
help me, that openness, that they showed, that ability that
like them pulling me up. You know, I think that
that's it's always important. And again, like we have to
kind of cultivate our own and and you know again,
(33:38):
community man, community, community, community.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I thank you for that, and I thank you for
being a reflection of all this. And I mean, I
know I've told you and I started this about how
proud and excited I was to see you continue to
evolve in the space. And we need more of you.
We need more of you being example, We need more
of you sharing, We need more of you stretching yourself
(34:04):
into spaces that God is going to cover. And I'm
so glad you're in a place of putting your workout,
just putting it out. You're not sitting with it like
I look forward to you being empty. And I thank
you for every Thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Bro.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
We truly appreciate your support because it helps us fulfill
our mission of promoting cultural awareness and personal development. Please
click the subscribe button below to help ensure and solidify
our mission
To who much is given, much is required. Part of
that requirement is sharing. Culture is the heartbeat within our lives,
and it's at the core of so many things. While
we live in a time when we are starving for wisdom,
I welcome you to your wisdom retreat that culture raises us.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I failed my way to success. I just wasn't afraid,
so I would always rather try than not.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Hebrew Brantly is an American contemporary artist known for his distinctive,
narrative driven work. He's had countless exhibitions to date, as
collaborated with a host of brands that span from Adidas
to A Few Blows, to name a few. His roster
of notable collectors includes Lebron, jay Z and Beyonce and
George Lucas.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
An artist is the great of their time. The work
that they do is representative of that time in which
they existed in I think my work generated a sense
of hope and wonder. Once I kind of started to
see that response that the work brought about in people,
I really leaned into it. You don't want to like
die and leave a legacy, or your albums on the
(01:02):
computer die empty.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
What do you think is a thing that separates creatives
that make it to the ones that don't.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
To good question.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
When you hear culture, what does that mean to you?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
If I'm honest, it doesn't mean the same thing it
used to.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Please honestly, is what we need right now?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I think culture is like one of those yes, you know,
for me, culture meant something different, right, It meant it
was a little bit more inclusive, you know. But again
now I don't know what it really means. Right. It's
sort of lost its it's flavor, it's lost its meaning,
it's lost its death. I think, you know, too many
(01:41):
people reach for that word to try to identify something
or put something in context.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
What did you once define it as? What did it
once mean to you?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I think culture just really identified with sort of a
unique conversation around who I am and who I identify
myself as right as it relates to community and you know,
sub any community, but like within hip hop culture, within
you know, arts culture, within music, film, whatever that is.
(02:15):
But I think that you know, it was it was
a word used to identify, you know, sort of subgroups
and folks that held sort of a deeper belief in meaning,
you know, and you know, moved sort of with a
different purpose purpose.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yeah, yeah, and there's a I definitely agree and hear
you on a number of those elements. And I think
that's why these conversations are so important, because I feel
like culture, as diluted as it's become in certain spaces,
is still super important because I think it's a through
line of a number of things. I mean, a number
of us have grown up in cultures, of a number
(02:50):
of us have helped shape cultures. But you're right, it's
been taken by many and been diluted stretched. But the
hope is we can find some sense of what it
means and now utilize it in all the right ways.
It was amazing to see you at Art Basle. That
was my first art Basle, So the irony of seeing
(03:12):
you in such a prominent position touched my heart. Touched
my heart. And I think it's no coincidence that art
and culture are so closely attached because I look at
you know, artists being something that has a great influence
when it's made, but then also great influence years later,
very much like the responsibility we have with cultures. So
(03:35):
what role do you think artists like yourself kind of
play in shaping and guiding and pushing society intoday's what
we call culture.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
It's a good question. I think it's the same as
it's always been when you look historically, right at the
forefront of any movement, behind that are the artists, you know,
And I think that it's the same now in that
in that way. However, again, the sort of over monetization
(04:07):
of the word and the idea has diluted that a bit.
But I think, you know, and then we don't necessarily,
you know, we're not in the same space in terms
of who we look towards for that sense of culture,
that sense of identity, right. I think you know, a
lot of the people that are followed and the people
(04:27):
that are sort of put up on that pedestal are
not creatives, right.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
And the influences who've been influenced by a check or brand,
which is wild I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
No, it's it's it's it's it's it's it's like the
it's like the the what is it the I don't know,
it's it's it's a revolving door, right. That that's of
the same thing. People that are influencers who've been influenced
and will continue to be influenced by you know, larger energies,
you know, initiatives. But yeah, I think you know, artists
(05:01):
have always sort of defined that, you know, and you
look at even to the point of, like you know,
real estate, right, Like, the artists move into an area,
the artists populate that space. The artists make it cool.
The companies come in, they they move in, they make
(05:23):
the area unaffordable for the artists. Other people come in
populate the area for far more money, right like Rinse
jacked up, and then the artists have to go and
sort of do the same thing all over again. Yeah,
and it happens everywhere. But you know, I don't I
don't mean to sound bitter. I'm just you know, I
think that, like, you know, now, currently the role of
(05:45):
the artist is, in my opinion, is more important than
it ever has been, because we need artists, right because
you know, especially in a society facing this whole debate
on you know, artificial intelligence and the manipulation of images
and media, you know, you need the truth and you know,
(06:08):
creators are the only ones that can sort of bring
that truth forward, right, And you know, it's always an
uphill battle, It's a struggle.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
You know, you're built for it.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah, I'm definitely built.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
I listen, I have no choice, right, we do choices,
You've chosen.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yes, I'm in it. I'm too deep in it. This
is what I'm saying. Like that, I'm already I'm already
way off in the water. I'm not going back.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
No, listen and talk about the water that you're in,
because I think as you talk about that, i'd love
to hear how you're remaining true to what you know
is the responsibility right now and the need you're right
of creatives to lead.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
At the risk of sounding like an old head, right like,
I just I feel like tradition is one of the
most powerful ideas that we have as a people, not
just as a you know, black people, but as people
as humans. And you know, I think that where in
(07:07):
a lot of ways, And this again could be just
age or speaking from a certain perspective, but I feel like,
you know, when you lose a sense of tradition, we
lose a sense of ourselves and we slip sort of
further and further away from you know where. Yeah, and
so I think that, you know, for someone like myself,
(07:27):
you know, I can only speak or create from a
place of honesty, and that place of honesty is a
culmination of experience and just again sort of creating from
a place of like these are my collective memories, this
is my collective experience and and understanding sort of where
(07:50):
we've come from and and you know, helping that, letting
that help dictate where we're going to it to a
greater degree.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
So what was that one mindset shift that kind of
changed things for you?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I think when I started to apply that that mindset
of like fuck it right and not being afraid to fail.
And I said all the time, like I failed my
way to success and I just wasn't afraid to right.
And it's like I'd rather I just being in a
(08:25):
position to where I would always rather try than not,
you know, try and fail then have not tried at all.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah. You know when I met you years ago, we
worked together on a collaboration of Adidas Thank you to Pharrell,
my cousin French, cousin Luke in BBC. You know I
knew then the amazing creative that you were. How what's
the process in choosing who you work with and your why,
(08:55):
because I think that also plays a key role in
kind of how you just answered the last question, right.
A lot of this journey you're not taking on your own,
it comes with sometimes working with others.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
What's your process, Well, it's always it's always has to
sort of come from an honest place, like I don't
I'm not in the in the in the in the
in the market to take on collabse that like are
just for the money, right, Like there you know, as
a person that's worked for a big brand, right, you know,
(09:25):
it's about like the effectiveness comes into storytelling, right, And
for me it's it's a lot of that where like
you know, the collaborations and the things that I've done
in the past with bigger brands and companies. For me,
it's like what's the story between me and that product
and me and that brand? And so you know, for
(09:47):
a Didas again, the correlation between like my upbringing and
hip hop, what Adidas meant, what Adidas means was was
was there? It was easy, right, And it's a it's
a product that I use and I wear and I
believe in. So why not collaborate and try to make something,
you know, to elevate again my creativity to stretch a
little bit and do that thing. So I think it's
(10:08):
it's it always sort of starts from there, like I'm
not gonna put my name on something that I don't
you know, really rock with, right.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Right, So as your work evolves and experiences continue to
kind of shape your perspective, what topics are their themes
that you want to delve into or try to get
more involved in.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Good question, you know, I tend to play around with,
you know, in my work, I've dealt with themes of
like you know, of heroism, of afrofuturism, you know, and
this idea of like I've said it a million times,
but like empowerment over power, right, because it's such a
(10:54):
real thing, you know, where we don't have, you know. Again,
the the the stance on community is a lot different
from when I grew up to what it is now, right,
And I think that like, you know, we don't have
those icons anymore, those heroes anymore, you know, and you know,
(11:18):
we've sort of we're left out to to see without
you know, some some sort of guidance for real. For
and again, not to say that we're completely lost or
anything like that, but I just feel like, you know,
a lot of the work and that the attention that
I put into the work in terms of thematics, is
like focusing on that and and that level of like
(11:40):
upliftment and and for me, I kind of unintentionally tapped
into something where I think my work kind of generated
a sense of like hope and wonder. And I think
that once I kind of started to see that response
that the work brought about in people, I really leaned
(12:02):
into it. You know, there is a bit of like
a satirical side to the work, and I think as
I get older, I try not to lose that, even
though it's hard, right, It's harder to find hope, it's
harder to stay and be optimistic at times. Right. You know,
(12:23):
the older you get, the further the curtain gets kind
of pulled back, right, the more you see, right. And
so I think now, you know, it's it's a bit
of that, but I think it's stretching, right, It's it's
as I've grown just as a man, as an artist.
You know, the work I think has grown both within
the context of it and also the aesthetic. And you know,
(12:44):
right now, I've just been exploring a lot of different
a lot a lot more different themes. But I feel
like it's really important. You know, it's a very well
known artist and collagist Romer Bearden.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Oh please, man huge, So the same our basil. You know,
they had a whole deal for Beard. I have a
wild stuff. Can I jump in on this? So growing
up in New York City apartment building, I had a gentleman.
You know, growing up an apartment building, the family is
the village that lives in the apartment building. You got
the babysitter that might be on the ninth floor, or
(13:19):
you might go stay with your friend on the tenth
floor with his parents, whatever. But there was a gentleman,
Russell Goings, who I will never forget, one of the
smartest men I've ever known in my life, wise wise wise,
wise wise. And he was an art collector. And so
now I'm talking with my youthful years, so this is
the ninety eighties. And he would talk about and he
would have art all over his apartment, all over the place.
(13:43):
To come to find out, he was like best friends
with Roal Mayor and Bearden. And he has one of
the deepest collections of pieces and artifact from Bearding. And
I didn't even get the GISTs of it then, but
he would always school me and educate me on art
because I was so I went to high school for art.
So this was a piece that he helped injecting me
(14:05):
of getting familiar with a prominent black artist. And just
when I think about Beard, and I think about his
use of collage, because that was his specialty, I look
at how that correlates into collaborations. Yeah right, because when
you look at collages is how do you bring all
these different materials and things together to work to create
something new and special. So as you just mentioned that
(14:28):
and then going back to our basle where they now finally,
I'm hoping the Romeor Bearding story is going to be
told and more people learn about him. But I love
that you just share that, So please go on, because
you pinched a nerve because not a lot of people
know about Romeo Beard. And then I had the fortune
of growing up in a building where one of his best.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Friends, Yeah, you had a like a seat.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
No, He's like grabbing pieces and showing me on the
ground and I'm like okay, And now I'm like, damn,
I wish i'd have known really then.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
But that's like we all have those moments. I wish
I would.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
So go ahead, So you're bringing a beard, Well, I
was bringing.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Up beer just just for the fact of, like, you know,
there's a quote that I'm gonna butcher. But the effectively
it to surmise it is like, you know, an artist
is basically the sort of great of their time, right
They are the the you know, the storyteller of their time.
You know. The work that they do is representative of
(15:29):
that time in which they existed in. And so for
me as as an artist, that's known for you know,
sort of reaching back in history and then moving past
history to sort of a future context and then more
of a fantastical sort of approach in certain aspects, I
(15:50):
kind of, you know, have been more focused on right now.
And so I think that like you know, I don't,
but a lot of the work that I've been really
interested in doing speaks to now versus you know, versus
you know, here then there over here. It's right now
(16:11):
because I feel like, you know, we're living in a
very very interesting time and you know, we have to
we gotta we gotta talk about it, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
But that's that's tough because a couple of things when
you talk about the right now, the right now is
constantly changing every day, So is that how is that
staying right now but to the point of not living
in the future and not living in the past, because
I can even think for myself and I'm sure for you,
life feels like it's so much faster now, way faster,
like children everything. And I think it's because we're always
(16:41):
looking towards that next milestone, and by putting something on
that next milestone, you're now eliminating everything that's happening in between.
So it's like this fast forward. So it seems like
because I feel like it was just yesterday that I
was celebrating last year's New Year's, not this one last
year's because it's all so fast. So how do you
(17:02):
discipline yourself to truly stay in the now and creating
that space, because that's tough, it is.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
I think one of the cheat codes is that you know,
I create fast, right, and so it is more of
like it's like journaling in a diary, you know. And
these pieces that I've been working on definitely represent moments
(17:31):
to me, at least they represent certain moments, you know,
of this second half of my journey. But the idea
is to not be so precious in terms of my
execution and output. You know DJ Jazzy Jeff I heard
(17:52):
him say like on a podcast. You know, he was
talking about as it pertained to like producers, right, and
he was saying, you don't want to like die and
leave you know, a legacy or your albums on a computer.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Because you didn't want to release them because they weren't perfect.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Right, you know, and like die empty and so that that,
I don't know, that just really struck a chor with me.
And you know, it might not necessarily be the best advice,
but I think that you know, I have a lot
to say. I'm interested in a lot, right, and you know,
(18:29):
I don't want to, you know, be facing my maker
at any point feeling full and feeling like there's still
so much I have to do. I mean, there will
always be those things, but correct, but ultimately, I think
when it comes to my my my craft, I want
to I want to put it all out there, you know.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
And so that's what helps you to get things out
in a timely fashion. You you spoke on something just
now alluded to interesting times, I mean, and given this
state of things, we're in very interesting times, what are
you doing specifically to kind of ensure that the cultures
and the spaces that you frequent are being nurtured properly.
(19:12):
And what would you recommend for other creatives and consumers
to do in these very interesting times?
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I don't you know, hmm, that's a good question. I
think for me, at least it more now than at
any point in my journey, I've been really focused on community.
And you know I say community, I mean, you know
those that do what I do or something adjacent, right,
(19:46):
building and nurturing a tribe in that way, and you know,
checking in on other creatives, my people, having dialogues with them,
you know, I think that that's a way through, you know,
if we're all talking, right, if we're all in dialogue,
learning from one another, different experiences and so forth, is
(20:10):
hypercritical right to understand what's going on in certain spaces
and not leave that up to social media to dictate
the times and where people are going and where things
are headed. Because again, like I say, like firm believer
that you know, artists and creators we dictate the culture
and what's to come, right, And I'm just you know,
I'm curious to understand and know what this person over
(20:33):
here is thinking. And what they're focused on, and you
know what's interesting them right now, and you know versus
this one over here, and you know, it's that level
of information. I think that helps all of us grow,
right because at the end of the day, like we're
all creatives, we're not in competition with one another. You know,
the competition is inward, not outward, and we all have
(20:56):
a responsibility to you know, the greater narrative. And so
for me, it's been really fun because you know, being
a creative man, you can you can be a hermit,
you know, and it's easy before you know it, like
you know, weeks months go past, you haven't heard from
this person and you haven't reached out or you know,
(21:18):
life it starts life in right, and you know, it's
I just feel like it's just important, man, Like you know,
we're starting to I'm getting to the age too where
like you start losing people, right, losing you know, family,
losing friends, losing idols, right, heroes, and so you know,
(21:40):
it's it's just it's really important to ah, you know,
to keep in foster that sense of like community.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I think part of you know, that question of the
interesting times, you know, d and I now has become
a you know, it's been a topic and when looking
at how that really ended up helping white women more
than any other group, what are the things we need
to now ensure that diversity is reflected in the spaces
(22:14):
that we've shaped over decades of time.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
I don't know. I don't know. I don't pretend to know.
You know, I think it knee jerk response is like
it feels like that's a thing that starts top down
less bottom up. You know. I think that, you know,
Pharrell spoke about it just in the sense of those
(22:42):
that are sort of in power have a semblance of
power that are you know, people of color that have
come from certain backgrounds, like you know, collectivizing, right, And
that's always been a conversation, right, And you know, we
have spurts and we have moments, right. But the hardest
thing for us to do is like, you know, pull
(23:05):
in consistently, consistently, right. You know, there's so many different uh,
you know, there's so many other groups that do it
well right through time and creation. But like I think
we have such a hard time with it. But that
goes back to our history and you know, so forth.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
So many layers and I even look at, you know,
things like fasting right and in seasons of fasting, which
obviously can be more than food, alcohol and social media
and all that I look at, it is there like
a communal fast that you would advocate we move to
(23:43):
to help us get even more clarity, alignment, focused consistency.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
On social media.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
I think you were going to say that.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
It runs our life, that algorithm runs our life. We
can't find our way without it. It's become so habitual that, like,
you know, again, you find yourself, you find yourself doom
scrolling without even realizing you doing it right and you've
already sucked in. That's fifteen minutes going by your life right.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Time is everything.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
It's everything. I have young kids, and you know, it's
really hard to find that balance and strike that balance
with them, you know, to keep them off of tablets
and so forth, right, But you know, it's that thing
where like we're really adamant about how often they're able
to use not without a lack of you know, them
(24:35):
whining or complaining or asking for it. But I think that, like,
you know, for as long as I can regulate that
for them, because I noticed that, you know, without that,
what they go to is like my daughter reads, you
know what I mean, she'll pick up the book or
she'll pick up the pencil or the pen right, write
a story, you know, start to do some illustrations, paintings, right,
(25:00):
and there's a whole nother world if I just look
up right and we're all about to it's like the
de evolution too, which is so funny to me because
that like that evolutionary like chart where it's like monkey chromagnum. Man,
you know, it's like, we're going back is going to
(25:22):
be like this in a few years. They have back problems.
Hunched over staring into your phone. So yeah, man, don't
you just.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Do quite the image in my head that you're right?
Like literally? Yeah, yeah, So give me your perspective on
AI and how it's affected creatives to date and how
you might even see create affecting creators moving forward.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
We're doomed man terminator in the days now? No, you know, honestly,
I don't know. I think it's it's it's alarming in
certain aspects and then and others I can see certain benefits.
It's something that I don't think. I know, I know
a little bit, but I don't know enough about to
(26:09):
speak on just in terms of the potential applications that
exist right now, right you know, I see the helpfulness
that it can sort of bring for certain things, But
I think the thing that I fear is the level
of immediacy that it allows for. And with that, you know,
(26:33):
with us becoming more and more dependent upon machines and computers,
we become further detached from the human side of things,
and that can also bleed into making right art making
and aesthetics. And so I think that like, if we are,
you know, so reliant upon the immediacy of creation, you
(26:59):
know our aesthetics will suffer.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
So listen for the next generation of creatives, what would
you tell them that you wish somebody would have shared
with you earlier in your career?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
A lot? Actually, financial literacy is one, for sure. I
think understanding the game, understanding what to do when you
do first get a few dollars right tomorrow is not guaranteed,
and it's not We're not in the space where every
two weeks we're getting a check, you know, And so
(27:36):
to understand how to budget for your life is really important.
And I think the only other thing I would just
say is that you know, there is no absolute, no
other secret to the success of being an artist other
than you have to work your ass off to find
(27:56):
your voice. It's experimentation. You have to mix this thing
with this to see how it works, and then let
me record the results. All right, so that works, Gonna
take this now, I'm gonna rework the equation. And so
you know, you have to just work your ass off, right,
and you can't get discouraged by somebody else's expectation of
(28:19):
your vision.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
That sounds like a bar and a gem in general.
Of you have to define what success is and you
have to be unapologetic about that and not allow for
the programming or the society to define that for you,
because that's gonna send you in a total spiral. Have
you defined what success looks like for you?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
I have? I have. I think you know, for me,
success has changed, right that the definition and I think
right now, success is what I found. You know, I
got health, I've got wealth, I have love around you know,
(29:04):
and that's success, bro. You know, success is being able
to pay your mortgage on time, right, like family can eat,
kids can go to private school, get a good education
like that. Success to me, you know, it's not about
the other side of like, you know, the the glitz
(29:25):
and glamour, being seen, being known, you know, access to
certain things. That's for me. That's probably me personally. I
just think that, you know, that's it. Like when I
started out on this journey many many years ago, you know,
if I'm a name drop real quickly, I spent one
(29:47):
of the most amazing evenings with Jeffrey Wright and Most
Death just years and years ago, and I was just
like Man of Sponge. I was just asked brothers. I mean,
I know they were tired of me, right, but I
asked him a million and a half questions. And you know,
(30:08):
one of the things that Most said that was one
of the simplest things, was like, when he first, you know,
started rhyming and doing all this, all he ever wanted
to do right was being in a position where throughout
his entire life he can just make dope shit okay.
And I was like, that is as simple as that is.
(30:34):
That's not easy to do right, to live your life
and furnish your life by your creations alone and not
have to depend upon others and other sources to help,
you know, feed your family. And so for me, it
(30:54):
was like I just held that and again it's not
that profound, but it was just like, that's all I
want to do. I just want to make shit that
I think is dope, and hopefully other people will sort
of gravitate too, and that can help sustain my life,
my lifestyle. And yeah, that's it. And so for me
(31:15):
that was just that was you know, that's success, man.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
And it's inspiring. It's inspiring because when people start to
live by that, I think we start breaking down the
barriers of the programming or what the definition of success
has been put in us to think. It is right,
and it sounds freeing. Most of us gotta be one
of the freest people like his spirit, and just that
(31:40):
sentiment is super freeing. And you know what, to be honest,
that probably unlocked the freedom and you to be who
you are to date.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
It did with uncomplicated the pursuit, right. You know, it's like, oh, yeah,
I guess it is.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
That's simple, that simple. Let's make it that simple. What
do you think is a thing that separates creatives that
make it to the ones that don't.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Heart you know, it's a very vulnerable thing to put
yourself to put your yourself and your creativity out there
to be consumed and you know, digested by the world.
And you know to do that you got to have yeah,
you know, you got to have heart.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Well listen, I mean we could do this for days.
You know, we always end this by asking, you know,
what are the three seeds you'd want to leave with
the stewards of culture moving forward? So the three key things,
and again you've dropped so much, but if there are
three things that you would say, here are the things
that I think for us to be in good hands
(32:47):
of those who are going to help nurture and shape
this culture as we know it moving forward, that we
need to get back your one thousand percent correct as
you started with.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
At least two that come to minds like cultivation and
openness and openness being you know, sharing not gatekeeping. You know,
I didn't get here by myself, and you know no
(33:16):
one gets there alone. And I think that you know
a bit of that, you know, those particular people that
help me, that openness, that they showed, that ability that
like them pulling me up. You know, I think that
that's it's always important. And again, like we have to
kind of cultivate our own and and you know again,
(33:38):
community man, community, community, community.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I thank you for that, and I thank you for
being a reflection of all this. And I mean, I
know I've told you and I started this about how
proud and excited I was to see you continue to
evolve in the space. And we need more of you.
We need more of you being example, We need more
of you sharing, We need more of you stretching yourself
(34:04):
into spaces that God is going to cover. And I'm
so glad you're in a place of putting your workout,
just putting it out. You're not sitting with it like
I look forward to you being empty. And I thank
you for every Thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Bro.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
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Host
Astor Chamber
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