Greg Bowen - Making Connections & Being Involved - Cumberland Road

Episode Transcript
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T.J. (00:02):
You're listening to the Cumberland Road, and I'm your
host, TJ Malinoski. Thefollowing is a faith
conversation with Greg Bowen, aCumberland Presbyterian minister
who's serving the Liberty Churchin McMinnville, Tennessee. My

(00:23):
conversation with Greg is bothfascinating and interesting. He
brings humor and perspective tohis life. We had a lot of
commonalities being discoveredin our conversation. Greg spent
seventeen years of his life inthe broadcasting media industry,
and I was interested in pickinghis brain. What he thought of

(00:46):
podcasting, what he thought ofconversations, and of course, he
thinks of ministry. Enjoy thisfaith conversation with Greg
Bowen.
Well, Greg, I feel like, youneed to be on this end of the

(01:09):
podcast. We met probably aboutfive years ago, and you were
telling me that you have acareer in or had a career in
broadcasting. So let's startthere. What did you do before
you got into ministry?

Greg (01:26):
Absolutely. And, TJ, thanks for having me and being a
part of the Cumberland Roadbroadcast and podcast. And you
know what? The broadcast worldopened my eyes to a lot of
different avenues. But I tellpeople whenever I'm kinda giving
them a little backgroundhistory, was born and raised on

(01:47):
a farm and we've milked cows andI wanted to do whatever I could
to get away from farm work.
That was tough. Seven days aweek and working on Sundays and
and so I kinda my career throughlife and everything brought me
around to the grocery business.And guess what? It was seven

(02:10):
days a week and, and, tough,tough work there. And then then
I became a milkman.
Most people do not know thatabout me. I worked for vibrant
company out of Nashville,Tennessee called Purity Dairies,
selling milk from a cow. I mean,you know, it kinda sounds gross

(02:32):
whenever you think about it. Andthen I thought, that is so
appealing. Let's stop sellingmilk and let's sell air.
So I got into the broadcastbusiness selling advertising for
radio stations, a company calledCommon Wealth Broadcasting out
of the, out of Kentucky. And atthe time they had 24 radio

(02:56):
stations and, and just awesomeopportunities. We were the
flagship for Western KentuckyUniversity sports. And I I got
to meet so many people andathletes, celebrities through
the broadcast business. But Iwas not on the radio.

(03:20):
I produced a lot of shows. I wasable to set up a lot of
equipment. I entertained a lotof clients, but most of all, was
in charge of sales andmotivating salespeople and
selling myself to buy air. Andthink about that. Mean, air's
free, right?

T.J. (03:38):
Right.

Greg (03:39):
Until you start trying to make a living with it. And then
you're like, no one gets up inthe morning and says, Man, I
think I'm gonna buy some airtoday. So that's kind of the
background of my broadcasthistory, but I loved producing
commercials. I loved writingcommercials. I loved being but

(04:03):
most of all, I loved theinteraction with the people, not
just with the clients, whichwere great, but the salespeople
and the people, the DJs and allof that, because there were
dynamics.
If I were somebody used to askme and say, well, are you on the
radio? And and my comeback was,if I was on the radio, you'd be

(04:27):
turning it to a differentstation because I'm too vanilla.
You know, those DJs, the goodones that keep your attention
that make you think when you'redriving down the road or working
out in the yard or in yourgarage, the ones that keep your
attention are the ones that'sdoing their job. They think that

(04:48):
they're talking to just you. Andman, I don't know that I had
that capability over theairways, but they did teach me a
lot.
So that's kind of the backgroundof broadcast media.

T.J. (05:01):
Yeah. You're right. Because the a DJ in in the radio
industry, you have to beengaging. You have to have your

Greg (05:08):
Yeah.

T.J. (05:08):
Unique personality and, in many cases, unique voice. Mhmm.
But I'm fast forwarding in away, you're not a radio DJ, but
you are a public speaker.

Greg (05:23):
Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And

T.J. (05:26):
But you tried to avoid. You ended up doing it in a
different path, in a differentway.

Greg (05:30):
Yeah. And and whenever you're whenever you have a sales
team, you you guess what? You'reyou're trying to motivate them
to go out and sell advertisingand to be around clients and
treat people the way you wantedto be treated. And and really

(05:51):
and truly my passion, if I had adream job that that was in the
secular world, it would becoaching baseball.

T.J. (06:02):
Okay.

Greg (06:02):
And and that's what I love because baseball is a
motivational sport, but alsodone with meticulous and with
purpose and intentionality.Okay, why are we doing this to
get to this point? And I guessit all ties in. So I like to

(06:23):
motivate people, and that's howI ended up in the broadcast
business. My boss used to tellme, if you can sell chocolate
milk, you can sell radio.
Okay. I said, I don't know aboutthat, but

T.J. (06:39):
Well, in the, let's go back a little bit. In the Purity
milk company and you weredelivery, did you deliver
residential to schools,businesses? What did that look
like?

Greg (06:52):
Pretty much all. I was trained out of Nashville for for
home delivery. I did homedelivery for a week just so you
would know how that would work.And we and yes, I am 58 years
old, but whenever it was stillhappening, whenever we would go
into people's houses and leavethem bacon and eggs and half and

(07:16):
half and butter. And you're justlike, Man, what's keeping people
from just still Well, that's whythey did away with it, you know,
because it was too dangerous.
But, yeah, I come through thepurity ranks. I became a route
jumper. I was a routesupervisor. I I helped work if

(07:37):
there were accidents or anythinglike that or whatever. I I
helped the guys out and andreally and truly, it there's
nothing like getting up atanywhere from 12:30 to 03:30 in
the morning and and being out onthe roads delivering milk and
they're like, is their storesopen?

(07:58):
Well, guess what? A lot ofschools have to have that milk
whenever them kids roll inthere.

T.J. (08:03):
That's right.

Greg (08:03):
So so I've I've done a lot of the aspects of that. And let
me tell you, that's hard work.

T.J. (08:12):
Any interesting stories in the broadcast marketing aspect?

Greg (08:17):
You know, sometimes some of the kookiest commercials that
you that the customer approvesyou to put on the air, you're
thinking, okay, the FCC willprobably fine us for this. And,
but a lot of times it gets thebiggest ratings and the biggest

(08:44):
turnaround, and people come in,and that's what produces
selling. And one of thecampaigns that we were a part of
in the radio business, I didn'tget to write the commercial
myself, but it I I like pig pigbutts, and I cannot lie. Okay?

(09:07):
It was a play off the word, youknow, big.

T.J. (09:11):
Yeah.

Greg (09:11):
But it it turned out great. And that was produced in
house and and just so many funthings and keeping it
lighthearted. And and we haveall different types of platforms
too. So it it people anytimethey're talking about a

(09:32):
commercial, you know you'redoing your job. And that doesn't
produce sales, but it willeventually because people will
say, where is that coming from?
So that's just one example. Andyou can edit that out. No.

T.J. (09:48):
Not only did you sell, air, but did you also write the
jingle the jingos jingles.

Greg (09:57):
Did you write

T.J. (09:58):
yeah. Jingles. In the scripts, did you do that?

Greg (10:03):
Not the jingles. The jingles most of the time we
hired companies that that wouldcome in produce most of those.
But a lot of the scripts, yeah,each salesperson was in charge
of what we called building thehouse. Okay? Whenever you went
to the client, you were like,okay, mister bank president,

(10:26):
tell us about your bank.
We have the friendliest people,whatever bank says they have the
friendliest people. So you hadto dig down to build the house
for that particular client. Andyou couldn't just throw all of
the wood on there and just say,build me a house. Okay. I wanted
three bedrooms.
You only gave me two bedrooms.So you had to dig and then every

(10:49):
salesperson wrote their owncommercial and, for the client.
And then we had some help thatour production manager would
come back and say, okay, allright, can we change this line?
And by the way, it was a thirtysecond commercial and you've got
enough for a two minutecommercial. It, you know, so it

(11:11):
was all a learning process,something to me that whenever
you're listening to the radioand you hear those commercials,
you're like, gosh, what is that?
And the big thing, what aboutthose car commercials at the end
where they say all those wordsand you can't understand?

T.J. (11:32):
Right.

Greg (11:32):
Well, that's the disclaimer. They've only got
that one car for $10,000Everything else is 60,000. Okay?
So there's always legal jargonwith that and attorneys, that
you have no idea.

T.J. (11:49):
When you would meet with a client, would you have one or
multiple interviews to kindacapture the intent and what they
wanted to articulate, what theywanted to market? Because in a
way, would imagine you have tobe, well, a good interviewer a

(12:10):
good detective to kind of mineand discover what they really
wanted to do. But then, at thesame time, you're also marketing
yourself because you want themto buy that airtime. So what is
that balance? What is that

Greg (12:27):
Sure.

T.J. (12:27):
Like?

Greg (12:28):
Great great question. I I had a awesome boss that had this
line and you had to keeprepeating it to a client to try
to get to not just thecommercial part of it, but to
the informational part. And youcould play on these words a

(12:48):
little bit. Tell us somethingabout your business or your
product that you think everyoneknows, but they don't. Okay.
Prime example, a Cadillacdealership. Everybody knows what
a Cadillac is. Everybody wouldlove to have a Cadillac. Now

(13:10):
that may have changed than itdid whenever our parents desired
to drive a Cadillac. ButCadillac, what makes someone
want to go out and buy onetoday?
Well, is it the symbol? No, thesymbol don't get you anywhere,
but it does carry a sense ofstandard, you know?

T.J. (13:32):
Yeah.

Greg (13:33):
So we just kept trying to play on that. And then once we
got them to talk about thefeatures in the car, the, the,
how, how Cadillac has freeservice for two years and how it
is rated one of the safest carsto put your children in the end.

(13:54):
Guess what? We started coming upwith a concept of Cadillac
driving style, but it's alsosafe for your family. Okay.
You know, that hits home.

T.J. (14:06):
Yeah.

Greg (14:06):
And how would you know that? I don't drive a Cadillac.
Yeah.

T.J. (14:12):
You do. You I guess, in a way, you are a detective trying
to capture in thirty seconds orless. What is the message that
you want to convey?

Greg (14:27):
Yeah. Absolutely. And you have to keep asking the
question. And and I say thatbecause that was part of the
sales too, whenever you wereselling them on the concept of
buying advertising. Advertisingdoes not work with one thirty
second commercial.
Okay. The Super Bowl is a primeexample of that. We are too much

(14:51):
removed from the Super Bowl. Andif I were to ask you right now,
TJ named me three commercials inthe Super Bowl.

T.J. (14:59):
I couldn't.

Greg (15:00):
You couldn't. You know, but you can probably think back
and the screaming pig now thathas been shown through
basketball season so much, thatwas in the Super Bowl, but you
remember it because it's playedso many times now. You know, the
the pig went, we we we all theway home. I I am so tired of

(15:22):
that commercial. I can't waittill basketball season's over,
so they shut that off.
But it makes you remember whatit's all about.

T.J. (15:32):
What skills, what lessons did you learn in broadcasting
media industry that carry overinto the ordained ministry?

Greg (15:47):
Really and truly, some of those same questions I ask to
people that I meet with andwhenever I'm writing sermons and
preparing, whether that be for awedding, a funeral, or for my
congregations on Wednesdays andSundays, I'm asking, what is

(16:10):
something that you can sharethat you think everyone knows,
but they don't? And are youbreaking it down to where they
can grasp it? Because there area lot of times that commercials
run through and you're like,what on earth were they even
selling?

T.J. (16:30):
Especially usually, it's hard to tell. And I I know we're
I know we're kinda transitioninga little bit here, but there
have been, you know, televisioncommercials or streaming
commercials that I don't evenknow what the product is.

Greg (16:46):
Yeah.

T.J. (16:47):
It ends up being for, you know, cologne or perfume or

Greg (16:51):
Exactly. Or Yep.

T.J. (16:52):
Yeah. Something not tangible. But from the verbal,
from the audio point of view,you have that opportunity to
especially, I think, in insermons and preparation and
delivery is you have the abilityto take the time to convey that
idea, but yet you still have tobe concise.

Greg (17:16):
You can't meander. You can't. You can't. And and that
transitions also into wheneveryou're trying to help people
through hard times or asituation in their life or they
wanna meet with you and it theycome in wanting to meet about
one thing, but it kinda getsdown another road and you have

(17:36):
to bring them back. Hey, let'slet's concentrate on this one.
Then we'll let's write a secondcommercial. Let's meet next time
on that particular subject. Youyou know? So yeah, the Lord
prepared me as much as possiblefor a lot of different avenues.

(18:00):
And I started late in life, youknow, compared to most, you
know, but it was definitely thepath, but it was also the path I
knew whenever it was time todedicate everything to full time
ministry.

T.J. (18:20):
Well, I've been looking forward to having this
conversation because I met youon the front end of Cumberland
Road. It was 2020 or 2021, butearly early. And I was teaching
a class, and you were in itpreparing for ministry. And I

(18:43):
remember you casually saying,yeah. I I have a, you know,
radio broadcasting background,And that intimidated me because
I didn't know I still don't knowwhat I'm doing, you know, in
terms of of, you know, having aguest on, inquiring about their
faith, the journey that they'vebeen on, and then even the more

(19:08):
practical technical stuff of ofrecording it, editing it, doing
intros, outros, music, fadingin, and all these different
things that I knew nothingabout.
And I know a little bit more,but not a whole lot more. And so

(19:28):
I'd I've I have been lookingforward to this conversation.
Now I feel a lot better becauseI thought I walked away from
that casual comment of thinking,oh my goodness. Greg Greg was
the DJ. Greg was the producer.
Greg you know, Greg knows, andyou

Greg (19:46):
do know a lot more

T.J. (19:47):
about this than I do. So you have I I shouldn't have
waited the these years later. Ishould have.

Greg (19:53):
Exactly right. No. Not at all.

T.J. (19:57):
Because occasionally, when you're working on, at least for
me, when you're working onsomething like this, you you
wonder, you know, how is thisgonna be heard? How, you know,
will people give Greg, theguest, you know, a fair shake, a
fair listen?

Greg (20:12):
Sure.

T.J. (20:12):
Or will it be something that I do either in my questions
or leading the conversation oron the technical side that will
throw up a barrier for thelistener to not listen to Greg?
So, I mean, that goes through mymind every time I put one of
these out.

Greg (20:31):
I get you. You've But that also what makes you unique in
your podcast carrying on.There's a reason why you've got
over a hundred of theseavailable to people, you know?
So

T.J. (20:44):
Yeah. Probably stubborn. Just just keep it. Just keep
going. No.
Look. I believe people's faithjourney is very compelling, and
God moves in ways that differfrom person to person and
whether someone is called in theministry or not, but God

(21:06):
transforms lives. And Yeah. I amhighly interested in hearing
those transformations, which areevery time always in progress.
There's no point of arrival.

Greg (21:20):
Better not be.

T.J. (21:22):
And I enjoy just kinda hopping on in that particular
person's life to learn moreabout them, to hear where they
are. And, you know, they'veeveryone has been gracious
enough to allow me to do that sofar. And and, you know, as I've
said before, in a way, this is aform of evangelism. To hear

(21:45):
other people's stories caninspire us to share our own
journey with others.

Greg (21:52):
Yeah. Absolutely.

T.J. (21:55):
Greg, I've bounced you around all over the place. Let
let's go back towards thebeginning and early in your
life. And let's begin there. Yougrew up in Kentucky. And as soon
as you're able to walk, and holdchores, you were caring for

(22:18):
cows.
So we can we can start there andstart family life and the
expectations for you as a kidgrowing up?

Greg (22:26):
Absolutely. I grew up on a family farm, and we we milked
cows virtually all of my lifewhenever I was young and I have
three older brothers and a momand dad that loved us very much.
They loved us so much. Theyworked us and taught us how to

(22:55):
work and how important it wasthat you, if you want something
out of life, you're going tohave to work for it. It's not
going to just be given to you.
I am thankful for that, but wenever stopped at any point in
time knowing where thoseblessings came from, to know
where a good crop, whenever itwas harvested, whenever there

(23:20):
was a lot of times just to getus through, it was that milk
paycheck that hit, that was ableto feed the family. It was cash
flow and it was a business. And,And my parents taught me that.
And my mom, not only was she thehousewife and took care of all

(23:42):
the clothes and all the mealsand fed all the hands and
everything, they taught atchurch. He led worship.
I mean, it it never stopped. Itit was always a continuum. It's
and that's all I knew. You know,you you you milked at 04:00 on

(24:02):
Sunday so you could be at churchat seven. And the and and
sometimes if the pastor didsomething at 05:30 at church and
then would ask my father, hey,we missed you.
And he was like, Well, if you'dhave come out and help me milk,
we could have been here. Youknow? The cows still had to be

(24:26):
milked on Sunday. But theytaught me that. And I had three
older brothers that worked andstill work today and and just
what a what a awesomeopportunity and and to be that.
I but TJ, I I tell this as partof my testimony too. I don't

(24:50):
have this. I I fell off thewagon or and and I don't mean I
haven't I've I've sinned andfallen short of the glory of
god. Trust me. But I don't havethis big story of, I didn't know
Jesus Christ, who he was untillate in life.

(25:11):
And I don't, but I relish thatstory like that because I was
raised. I was raised by Godfearing people, and I truly mean
that. If you didn't do what dadwanted you to do, he put the
fear of God in you. And so but Iwas. I was blessed.

(25:33):
We went, I had Sunday schoolpens. You know, for for not
missing. I've got every vacationbible school we went to and
other churches we went to. Wewent to gospel singing after
gospel singing And guess what?It didn't damage me too much.

(25:56):
So I have a great testimony thatdoesn't have to go down a road
of glimmer of no hope becausethere was hope all the time. I'm
able to share that with peoplethat at any point in time, can
be drawn near and serve our LordJesus Christ.

T.J. (26:19):
Being immersed in the Christian faith also immerses us
in a community of otherbelievers. So, Greg, talk about
important people, especiallywill stay kind of early in life
that influenced you, thatdeepened your faith, that

(26:41):
encouraged you to earn thosepins of attendance. And Sure.
Yeah. Who were those folks?
What did that

Greg (26:49):
look Yeah. I was born and raised in the Methodist Church
and very proud of that. Okay. Ihad some great, great ministers
that that had conversations withus on a level. And I'm talking

(27:09):
about seven, eight, nine, 10years old.
They knew how important that,that age was. My first sermon
was at a children's or youthgathering at a Methodist church.
And the preacher, our preacherat the time, Travis Kelter

(27:33):
Kelter, he gave me a book and hesaid, Hey, you're bringing a
devotional tonight. Well, Ididn't even know what devotional
meant, you know? And I went inand all I know is how he would
preach, okay?
Yeah. And I took that littlebook and I found the scripture

(27:53):
and presented that night. Andwhenever we walked out there, he
said, Man, you're going to be apreacher one day. And I was 11
years old at the time and lovedit ever bit of it. And, but I
didn't, I, I, those were justwords to me.

(28:16):
I had no idea that. So that'sone example. Brother Dan Smith
was another minister that comein whenever I was in my teenage
years that just loved beingaround kids. And he was a young
minister and had a lot of energyand just fit in well with about,

(28:39):
there was about 20 of us in theyouth group at the time, and you
know how that is. And so it justwas good.
And then transitioning over toyour later years of whenever you
know everything in high schooland, and, and my parents,

(29:01):
continually, as I was at homeand before I was married, they
were like, Hey, you going tochurch? Well, yeah, I guess so.
It wasn't an option. If youlived and slept in the house,
you went to church. You know,you might slide by if it was

(29:23):
prom night or something, butother than that, man, that was
just a it was a part of yourevery day

T.J. (29:33):
Mhmm.

Greg (29:34):
Living was to make sure and attend just the same as it
was doing your part of the farmwork.

T.J. (29:41):
So You mentioned being a part of a youth group and a
pretty good sized youth group.Talk about that for a little bit
and how that is formative in thefaith too as a youth, being
around peers who are, you know,still physically growing, your

(30:02):
brain is forming, you have allthese hormones, you're in
school, you're in differentsports, different activities.
There's so much going on at thattime of life. Being around and
being in a youth group, aChristian youth group, can
either make you or break you inthe sense of remaining attached

(30:24):
and faith infiltrating yourdecisions. So how did that work
for you, Greg?
Was it a place of fellowship, orwas it a place of of deepening
your discipleship?

Greg (30:37):
Really and truly, the perfect scenario. It it was I
had a couple of people that wereyouth leaders at the time, Janet
Gaypart, she was our youthleader, and her and her husband,
very young at the time and justengaged and loved being around

(31:01):
kids and didn't have their ownkids yet. And, and, and was just
wanted to make sure that we hadthe opportunity to know who
Jesus Christ was and how much heloved us and showing that love
through the church and throughbeing able to provide us with a

(31:24):
fun time also. And as I got intoministries, everywhere you go
and the people you talk to andeven older people will talk
about their youth days at campand whenever they enjoyed and

(31:46):
how that grew their discipleshipand how that grew their
faithfulness and relationshipwith Jesus Christ. I talk about
a lot of being intentional.
Okay? We can be intentionalwithout having to and make it

(32:08):
fun. So that that's that's a bigpart of the career that I didn't
know that the Lord was planningfor me and teaching me and
showing me. And I look back nowand yes, I'm 58 years old, but I
love being in contact with thechildren. I love having

(32:30):
children's church with them.
I love going in their Sundayschool classes. I love just
cutting up with them. You know,I want to stay a kid. I know it
can't happen, but I love beingaround the kids.

T.J. (32:45):
I also grew up in an environment that had strong
children and youth programs. AndI look back now, and find how
informative that is in myinteractions with everybody. And
I didn't know at the time howimportant it was to be in a

(33:11):
youth group because there's alot of people who didn't have
those opportunities to

Greg (33:16):
That's right.

T.J. (33:17):
Build relationships, be silly, go on trips, go on
mission trips, go on retreats.It was that really provided me
other opportunities to I mean, Idid mischievous things on those
retreats Sure. And things likethat. Sure.

Greg (33:35):
But it

T.J. (33:35):
did get it it gave me an out to where I could have been
in other groups. I could havebeen doing something else that
may have been more detrimentalor harmful to me or to others.
And I look back and how that'sinfluenced me. It's also how

(33:55):
it's very important to interact,as you had mentioned earlier,
with the children and youth inthe local church to break down
those barriers because you hidebehind a pulpit or a podium or
something to that matter. You'reon an elevated stand and you're

(34:16):
a child or youth already.
So you most well, maybe not inmy case and you're quick. But
most of

Greg (34:25):
the time, they're looking Exactly.

T.J. (34:28):
Yes. And to be able to break those barriers down and
see you as just another memberof the faith community. Yeah.
You have a role. You have a giftthat you're sharing.
You're providing a service toGod to other people. But, you
know, you're you're just a guy,one member of many members in

(34:51):
the faith community. Mhmm.

Greg (34:53):
Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't agree with you more. I love that
children's church on Sundaymorning. I tell my congregation,
I like for the children still tocome down and we do that in the
pulpit, altar area because Iwant them to feel comfortable

(35:18):
about using that.
I want them to feel comfortableabout being in God's house and
yes, treatment with respect, butit's there for us to use too.
And the more they feelcomfortable about coming down
there and, and learning a lessonor praying, then we don't get

(35:41):
into people whenever they'reolder age saying, oh, I can't go
down there. All these questions.Those kids don't ask questions.
They wonder what kind of TootsiePop I'm going to give them, you
know, or whatever.
So, yeah, I want it to becomfortable whenever they walk
in the door. They know this ismy church and it's God's house.

(36:05):
I'm gonna respect it. But, heloves me being here. Just like,
you know, we would welcome ourown kids and grandkids into our
home.

T.J. (36:16):
You mentioned that you are the youngest of four. So in your
teenage years, you're gettingclose to graduation. What were
there any expectations that youwould be a dairy farmer, remain
on the farm? What did your momand dad want for you? What and
what did you want for yourselfat that time?

Greg (36:38):
You know, I struggle with that. I I struggle with that all
of my life. What what is mycareer? What what is my calling?
And, and I never could really, Inever could really pinpoint
that.
You know, I, I struggle withmaking decisions, but I never
struggled with trying to makemoney and providing for my

(37:01):
family. You know, that was apiece of cake. I think I have
been without a job one day in myentire adult life, one day. And
my wife says that's the cleanestthat the house has ever been
because I spent that one day ofunemployment on the house. And

(37:24):
that is a blessing too.
But at the age of I was 16 yearsold, I was in Chicago, Illinois
on a FFA four H trip. And I wasfixing to meet Orville
Redenbacher. I had won a contestthrough impromptitude speaking I

(37:56):
was going to get to meet OrvilleRedenbucker and sit beside him
having dinner in Chicago throughfour H. And right before I was
going in to do that, my mom anddad had bought me $10 worth of
calling cards. And there's a lotof people that are probably

(38:17):
listening to a podcast thatsays, what on earth are calling
cards?
Well, they were small creditcards you put in your number and
you can call long distance,where it they wouldn't have to
accept your call and just ringring into the house phone.
Right. So

T.J. (38:34):
yeah, as opposed to calling collect.

Greg (38:37):
Yeah. And say, will you accept this call? You're going.

T.J. (38:41):
Yeah, I forgot about those. Yeah, you could. You
could go to the store and buythese cars. They had a bunch of
numbers on it. You had to typein the numbers in

Greg (38:49):
the punch in every number.

T.J. (38:51):
And then once it cleared, then you could dial the number
that you were trying to reach.

Greg (38:57):
That's right. And she my mom had purchased me $10 to take
with me. Dollars 10 worth, youknow, and it was so much a
minute. So I remember callinghome and whenever I called home,
my mom answered and she said,Your dad wants to talk to you.

(39:17):
And I was like, What have Idone?
I'm in Chicago. What am I introuble for? Or whatever. And he
gets on there and he says, Greg,there's been a gentleman that
wants to buy the farm and thecows, but we'll keep it if
you'll if you want to stay inthe farm life, we'll keep it.

(39:40):
We'll keep right on going.
And I instantly said, sell it,please, please. Get rid of it.
Sell it.

T.J. (39:50):
That's a lot to lay on a 16, 17 year old.

Greg (39:55):
But you have to yeah. There's a little backstory to
that. My father had had hadquadruple bypass surgery, had
had a heart attack. And fromabout the age of 11 to 12 in my
middle school years, I wasmilking twice a day. And pretty

(40:22):
much running the dairy operationall on my

T.J. (40:26):
own. Okay.

Greg (40:27):
That's a lot to put on a teenager. So, and cows, man,
guess what? You know, and whatdidn't make me a fan of school
either because I couldn't evenconcentrate on school thinking
about, man, gotta go home andmeal. And I love sports, TJ. I

(40:49):
wanted to play football, Iwanted to play baseball and all
of that, and couldn't do it.
And that's nothing bad. I mean,it was just what life dealt you.
-Yeah. -And so I was like, oh,man, at 16, we get rid of the
farm. Well, by the time wetransitioned through, man, I was

(41:09):
done graduated by the time wegot rid of all the cows.
You know, I thought, yes.

T.J. (41:16):
But you didn't But, anyway. You didn't hesitate in
your response?

Greg (41:20):
No. Not at all. And and so we we parted ways, and and and
with that, we we becamedifferent types of breadwinners.
My dad went back out and hebecame salesman. And then he was
selling for a siding and windowcompany.

(41:42):
And two of my older brothers,they got together and said,
let's just open up our ownplace. We'll just sell home
siding and windows ourselves.And we won't have to, we'll cut
out one of the middle people andwe'll make us more money. And
they made a great living thatway. And, and that back many,

(42:06):
many years now, my father hadleft the site after being there
and with the workers and that'sall he did was sail and passed
away with a massive heartattack.
That was, I think maybe hisfourth or fifth heart attack,

(42:26):
But yet again, he went outworking, he went out, he never
stopped. He was always, and itwas never about work. It was
about, man, talking to people,engaging and just, yeah, pretty
special. And then I said I hadthree older brothers. I have one

(42:47):
brother that has already passedaway and that was a tough one in
my ministry career to be able todo his funeral.
I didn't think I would be ableto do it, but the Lord helped me
through that process. And he wasmy hero. He was bad to the bone.

(43:09):
And didn't mind to tell you.Well,

T.J. (43:13):
not to make it light, but I would imagine that someone
listening to this is gonna wannaknow, did you end up meeting
Redenbacher?

Greg (43:25):
Oh, yes. Yeah. Oh, yes. And and he was old then too. And
when I was 16 years old and andI was like, man, how did he even
get here?
But you know how you are whenyou're that age. Everyone's old.
But he was an old dude and, butjust so kind. And he wanted to

(43:49):
know everything about me and ourfarm and he acted like I was his
grandson. I thought, man, that'spretty cool.
Yep. So we had dinner and thenhe went on about his way, but he
was dressed like, just like heis on the picture on the box.

(44:11):
So, I don't even think he's onthe box anymore, but they're
still oval red buck or popcorn.

T.J. (44:17):
Yeah. I remember, let's see. White hair, dark
eyeglasses, bow tie, collaredshirt.

Greg (44:26):
Very thin, very thin. Yeah. Yeah. And that's that's
how he was. But just thatgrandpa look.
I I pictured it. I figured hewent outside and probably smoked
a Marlboro or a Winston orsomething.

T.J. (44:47):
Greg, walk me through. I've learned about your days at
Purity, the dairy farm, Mhmm.And your broadcasting career,
how did you shift walk methrough kinda your calling into
ministry. And if you need tobackpedal and and kinda give

(45:10):
some context prior to that, thatthat's fine. But, you know, what
was that transition like, thatcalling like?

Greg (45:19):
Well, part of the calling, I think, goes all the way back
to, yes, whenever I was a youngboy and part of the youth groups
and those type things, I lovesinging in the choir and I love
all of the stuff that come withwhat you wanted youth to do.

T.J. (45:43):
But

Greg (45:44):
in transitioning through all of that, my wife and I
married at the age of 20. Andshe was always very active at
camp and things like that. Andshe was a Cumberland
Presbyterian. And I was aMethodist. And I had to change.

(46:05):
No. That's not that's not true.We just seen that and and we
didn't have kids or anything butwe it was difficult going to two
churches. We go to my church oneSunday and then her church the
next Sunday and and and we werejust like, what are we going to

(46:26):
do here? Well, the opportunitycame along for us to twenty
year, twenty year old Sue and I,newly married.
They needed a youth director. Ofcourse they needed a youth
director. And will y'all takeit? Yeah. So, sure we will.

(46:53):
And we were paying the otherpeople, but we can't pay you.
Okay, all right. I've read thatbook before too, okay? So
anyway, but we did. And we hadgame night, we had devotionals.
We had the lock ins. The wholedeal of what you used to could
do. Okay? With youth and, soreally and truly, I I could not

(47:22):
be in ministry if it wasn't forSue. And and she helped that.
Now, further even back, myparents, grandparents, all of
them served a big portion ofdirecting me and growing my
relationship with the Lord, butreally and truly ministers that

(47:47):
I began to come in contact withand us showing how to lead as a
team. And we've been a team eversince.

T.J. (47:58):
And

Greg (47:59):
and then I would come in with the crazy ideas of man, I'm
going teach a Sunday schoolclass or, or you you got the
kids in the nursery and ifyou've got the kids in the
nursery, then I'm going to go dosomething else. And so all of

(48:19):
that, to circle back around,then at a young age, by the age
of 22, we had a baby ourselves,you know? And then I walk in one
day and said, we're going tomove from Campbellsville,
Kentucky to Glasgow, Kentucky. Iwalked in and told my wife that
on Monday and we were living inGlasgow on Saturday.

T.J. (48:43):
Great. That's

Greg (48:46):
right. Yes. That was the grocery business and man. Yeah.
And just transition and guesswhat my wife said, let's go.
And she was trying to finish upcollege and we she enrolled at
Western Kentucky University andwe rolled on and really and

(49:08):
truly that was where wetransitioned into Cumberland
Presbyterians all the time. Now,I was already a member of the
Campbellsville Church with herand but I didn't know anything
about them much. Mhmm. Andwhenever we moved down here, we
said, where are we going to goto church? And and Sue said,

(49:30):
well, I know this guy namedFreddie Norris.
And he he goes with us to camp.He leads camp. He's a real funny
guy and he's a great guy. Solet's just try out the Glasgow
CP Church. And guess what?
We tried it out and never leftand they let me be a part of the
softball team and ever goodchurch has a softball team, you

(49:57):
know, or used to years ago. Andyet again, connections and and
being involved, being involvedin somebody else's life. And and
and it just continued to grow.But my ministry led from and I

(50:18):
don't know how far you arewanting me to take this, but I
feel like my true ministry beganwhenever we transitioned out of
a pastor and the new pastor camein and said, Hey, I'd like for

(50:38):
you to be an elder. And I waslike, I'm not qualified for
that.
And he real quick turned aroundand said, guess what? None of us
are. That's that's why we haveto depend upon the Lord's
guidance and trust in him and bein his word. And I was like,

(51:00):
okay, let's give it a try. Youknow, and and we've we're all
guilty as ministers of doingpeople like that.
And and there are some good andbad in those type things. But
but that's where, that's whereit all started. I was at Ella
for nineteen years in a row andwe might need to edit that out

(51:22):
because that's against everbylaw or anything like that.
But, you know, but there wasnobody to rotate at the time
whenever the church was growing.

T.J. (51:33):
Right. Right. And And and some sessions don't rotate.

Greg (51:38):
That's exactly right. Yeah. But this one should be. It
was just a it

T.J. (51:46):
Well, you were a young man then.

Greg (51:49):
I I was. Yeah. Yeah. Really young.

T.J. (51:53):
This minister and, of course, the congregation saw
something in you to be an elder.What do you think that was
looking back now?

Greg (52:05):
Sue was a really good worker. Mhmm. Because I'll be
honest with you. There were alot of Sundays. I was not at
church because I was the managerat the grocery store.
I saw everybody after church,but I was working at the grocery

(52:26):
store and Sue took our daughterat the time to church. And with
that being said, she Wednesdayswere our night together. That we
had a program called Logos.

T.J. (52:42):
Yeah. Yeah.

Greg (52:42):
And I I know you're familiar with that. But that was
so rich to a young family. Wewere broke, TJ. We we, you know,
we we were broke, and it waskind of our entertainment on
Wednesdays to be able to go andhave a nice sit down meal and
and and sit there and talk toother kids. And, and those kids

(53:06):
talk to our little daughter atthe time and, and gave us a
break.
And, but it also gave us a timeto sit down as a couple in a
class. And then, you know, howthat usually goes, you tend to
class enough, then you become ateacher. So, and then she would

(53:31):
always teach a class. She, youknow, she would teach all day
and then teach on Wednesdays andSundays. Use the same people.
Yeah.

T.J. (53:42):
I'll interrupt you here for a moment. Something that you
said is pretty profound. When asa church leader, an elder,
minister, deacon, volunteer,whatever it may be, we often
look at the things being offeredwithin the church, you know, the
programs like logos in terms ofgoal oriented, in terms of,

(54:05):
okay, it's going to accomplisha, b, and c. Yeah. That is the
purpose of logos.
That's the purpose of anyparticular program. Sure. I
hadn't really thought much aboutit. You and your family looked
at it from a from thatperspective, but on a totally
different level of this is forus with limited funds. This is

(54:28):
our entertainment, you said, butit's also our our building of a
community.
I think that often getsoverlooked, that we look at the
programs and the events that aredesigned and implemented,
offered within a church, and weare able to answer very well.
This is why we're doing it. Thisis what we want to accomplish.

(54:52):
Maybe we need to be a littlemore open to the people who are
actually participating that youmight get that out of it, but it
serves another purpose as well.

Greg (55:02):
Yes, absolutely. And and it served us very well. You
know, it it really did. And thelogos program was great for our
church and bringing that in. Andguess what?
We were wholeheartedly. We paidall the dues to Logos. I mean,

(55:24):
it was expensive. And we usedtheir material we did the, they
had the comforter. We even hadthe full time comforter that
walked around to the kids thatyou couldn't control and they
helped us with that.
And you're just like, man. Andwe rotated and we played games

(55:49):
and we found out about eachother. And yes, TJ, programs
like that work, but the devilhas taken things like that in
today's world. And stolen ourattention. Gave people other
avenues that that take away fromthat gathering as Christians or

(56:15):
as an opportunity to bring thosekids into the church like that.
And there are otherorganizations out there that are
great. Don't get me wrong. Butbut we have kinda lost our fire
just a little bit about beingone of those organizations.
Okay? The after school programs,everybody knew Wednesday after

(56:41):
school on logos night.
You went to the church, and thatwas where you went. You went
downstairs to the the tablesdownstairs, and you knocked out
your homework. And and And itwas just like being at home. You
finished your homework. Well,not yet.
Then what are you doing? Get itdone. You know, had a snack form

(57:04):
and everything. And then youwent on. Was a- but you had to
have the workers.
And in today's world, it's thesame 20% doing 80% of the work.
And it does. It takesdedication. You can't do that in
a 30 person church. So, yeah, Ikeep going back, if we stay on

(57:32):
here long enough, the devil hasus right where he wants us
because there's too many otherthings out there and steal us
away and gather our attention.
It's too easy to say, I believeI'd rather go do this.

T.J. (57:49):
Right. Right. I think, also that everything has a
season. So a program like Logosthat maybe was successful, had
its place maybe in the eighties,nineties, early '2 thousands.
But the needs, maybe they changeas well in Sure.

(58:11):
Church or churches need to adaptto be able to I don't think the
needs necessarily have changed,but the way to meet those needs.
We we need to be creative. Someeting on a Wednesday night may
not be feasible, but thatdoesn't mean that tutoring is

(58:36):
still a need. Snack or anevening meal Yeah. Youth and
children is a need.
It's just how do we how do weaddress those? And I think maybe
the distinction is and I'm notpicking on logos at all. I mean,
we can really

Greg (58:55):
No. I get you.

T.J. (58:56):
Put any of these in there. Maybe it really is contextual.
So those universal orinternational programs, one size
fits all, maybe it is more thecircumstances in the context of
the local church. You know? Alocal doesn't even have
children.

(59:17):
So you wouldn't go with logosbecause, you know Does it? Yeah.

Greg (59:22):
But it doesn't mean you couldn't use some of those same
concepts like sitting down andhaving a meal together. That
because there there are widowsor widowers of the church that
always talk to their spouse andnow that spouse is gone, there's
nobody there to talk to.

T.J. (59:43):
Right.

Greg (59:44):
You know, one of the things that I've found in
commonality with all of thosegroups, and it's hard to meet
all of those, especially as apastor that's supposed to have
all the right answers. Okay? Butwhether you're talking about

(01:00:08):
senior adults, young parents,youth, they all fight some of
the commonality things andsometimes it's loneliness,
sometimes it's health concerns.You say, well, does a youth talk
about health concerns? Okay.

(01:00:30):
We are off the charts more thanever about youth dealing with
different mental health concernsor even physical health
concerns. And what aboutfinancial struggles? We have
taught kids more than ever theimportance of money. Okay. And

(01:00:51):
they start worrying about it ata younger and younger age.
So all of these different thingsand they fit into every one of
those categories. What abouttechnology? Okay. You say, well,
the kids don't have any problemwith technology. Oh, they don't?
Is that why they're trying toget rid of certain platforms?

(01:01:13):
Yes, they do struggle with it.Well, how does an older person
struggle with it? They can'tanswer their phone. Okay?
So there's all those strugglesthere, but they still all
intertwine. And we just have tobe able to find the release of
how to say, okay, Mr. Senioradult, what are you struggling

(01:01:36):
with? Well, I'm having troublewith my Internet at the home.
Okay.
Alright. Hey, if you can get achild to open up to you or a
young person to open up to youand say, what are you struggling
with? Man, I am struggling withjust this kid that will not
leave me alone. Okay. Alright.

(01:01:59):
How can we approach that? So,yeah. And and I didn't mean to
chase a rabbit on you there orwhatever, but I I but

T.J. (01:02:09):
I think

Greg (01:02:09):
that's what logos kinda brought to us. It it opened up a
conversation.

T.J. (01:02:16):
I I think it emphasizes the need for community and the
different members within thecommunity.

Greg (01:02:24):
Yeah. You have Yep.

T.J. (01:02:25):
Maybe even different sets of issues or problems or
challenges, values as well, butthat recognition that this is a
community. And, you know, letlet's enjoy the benefits of
being in a community. So myweakness is your strength. My
strength is your weakness. Andbut the only way to discover

(01:02:47):
those things is to spend time inthe community.

Greg (01:02:51):
Sure. Yeah. And and that's why I like today. Yes. I love
baseball, but I love going tothe kids games.
Okay? I I love just sitting outthere and they they think and I
tell them, hey, I'm coming towatch you, but I I'm coming out
there just so I can set out inright or left field away from

(01:03:14):
all the parents and just sit outthere and enjoy a baseball game
and watching those kids play,you know? That's what I like.
And so yeah.

T.J. (01:03:27):
How did the transition from elder and a calling to
ministry occur? What was thatlike?

Greg (01:03:41):
Pastor and Reverend Tim Stuttler, Cumberland
Presbyterian minister, came toour church, and he was the one
that introduced me to theconcept of being an elder and
that we needed to that being anelder was more than just handing

(01:04:01):
out bulletins on Sunday morningand opening doors for people,
which is an important part. I'mnot making light. Okay? But he
started teaching us as elders ofwhat it meant to be teachers and

(01:04:23):
examples and try to live throughthe eyes of Christ. And that's
what would grow a church andthat's what would grow your
family.
And that's it didn't say youwouldn't have storms. It would
just help you get through thestorm and then enable you to
give an example of why you weregoing through the storm of how a

(01:04:45):
Christian is supposed to act. SoTim Stuttler started a program
in the church and not rightaway, but he started asking some
of the elders, hey, like for youto preach on Sunday night. Well,
the word the word preachsometimes will scare people. I'm

(01:05:08):
no preacher.
You know?

T.J. (01:05:11):
That's what we hired

Greg (01:05:12):
you for. That's right. That's exactly right. And and
but looking back, it was reallythe way to go about it because
it it was teaching us how tocommunicate Jesus Christ to the
community.

T.J. (01:05:28):
Mhmm.

Greg (01:05:29):
And you started right with your own family. You know?
Whenever you're a kid and you'resinging, you think you're the
best singer in the world becauseyou sing in front of mom and dad
and they just clap for you andtell you how good you are and
everything. But then you have togo out into the world and
sometimes people don't agreethat your singing is that good.

(01:05:51):
And so Tim had the foresight tosay, Hey, let's start speaking
here.
And then himself and a couple ofretired ministers would meet
with us afterwards. And theywere not critical or tell us,

(01:06:12):
Oh, you misquoted scripture,because I'm sure I did. They
were in there and say, Wow, haveyou ever thought about using
this this way? Have you thoughtabout this scripture this way
and kind of give us feedback?But most of all, TJ, they loved
on us and prayed over us.

T.J. (01:06:35):
All the elders took a turn of leading a Wednesday night or
a Sunday night.

Greg (01:06:41):
Yeah. That that was willing. Now there were some
that that's not their calling.

T.J. (01:06:46):
Mhmm.

Greg (01:06:47):
And and I get that. But as an elder, we are called to teach
and we are called to spread thegospel. Now some of them spread
it in different ways. But if youwere willing to do that, well,
that's that's where that startedin the congregation. And and and
from there, I thought, man, II'm really blessed out of this.

(01:07:10):
Not that I was doing a good job,but the Lord blessed me for
doing it. Does that make sense?

T.J. (01:07:16):
Yeah. You were given an opportunity.

Greg (01:07:19):
Yeah. And and through that blessing, and and it wasn't
about, oh, everybody left andsaid, oh, great sermon. Great
sermon. It wasn't about that atall. Because in my background,
which prepared me, I refereedand umpired for nineteen years.

(01:07:40):
So you always had thatcongregational member that tells
you that you did a good job, butyou also got that other one
that'll tell you, man, youmessed that up bad. Okay? That
refereeing and umpiring helpedme with that. Okay? So through
that process, it led me to thenext step of becoming a Gideon.

T.J. (01:08:04):
Okay.

Greg (01:08:06):
I really thought that was my calling. I loved going to
other churches and speaking andjust talking to people about,
let's get the word of God outinto so many hands. That today

(01:08:26):
gives me one of my favoriteBible verses. You know, the
Gideons are built off Isaiahfifty five eleven. It says, so
this is my word that goes out ofmy mouth and it shall not return
empty.
And I I just think that is sopowerful. You you know, it's his
word. We're just the one that'sspreading it. And and if we

(01:08:50):
continue to do that, it wouldnever be empty. It will it will
continue to multiply and bless.

T.J. (01:08:55):
The message that you gave as a Gideon in different
churches, was it the same inevery location? Did you change
it up?

Greg (01:09:05):
No. You you were free to change it up. They you could use
whatever scripture you wantedto. But that to me, though, was
the basis of what the Gideonswere. Mhmm.
Okay? And I kinda wrapped upevery sermon with that.

T.J. (01:09:24):
Okay.

Greg (01:09:25):
But with the Gideons, what was unique, you'd go into some
places, and I'm sure you canidentify to this, you go into
some churches, the preacher wasnot willing to give up his time
at all. Okay. So a lot of timesyou would get there and you were
going to have a Gideon serviceand you got the children's time.

(01:09:48):
Okay. Or, or they would say,okay, I'll, I'll let you speak
right after the offering.
You're like, okay. So you had tobe flexible. And I was very
flexible in that. I had a five,ten, fifteen, and twenty minute
sermon each time I went out.

T.J. (01:10:10):
Okay.

Greg (01:10:11):
Whether I had five minutes or twenty minutes. And then
there were other extreme cases.You get there, and then they
sang two songs and said, Now weturn it over to the Gideons. And
so you had the whole service,you know, but you come out
better if you let them out tenminutes early.

T.J. (01:10:30):
Right.

Greg (01:10:30):
You get more donations. And the donations were always,
you just went to the back andyou opened up your bible and
whatever they laid in the bible,and that's how we collect it at
the time. And just superblessed. I never will forget, I

(01:10:51):
got to a church, and TJ, thesetwo churches sat within probably
less than 10 yards of eachother. Two different churches.
One was a Baptist missionary andthe other one was like a Baptist
missionary tomb or somethinglike that. But they had split.

(01:11:17):
They they had split, but therewere still two congregations
there. And I was like, man, thisis intimidating. I haven't even
walked in the door.
So I I I walk in the door and agentleman meets me in Bill
Boveralls.

T.J. (01:11:34):
All right.

Greg (01:11:36):
He says, First Gideon speaker we've had in ten years.
I said, Well, thank you forhaving us. The last one kept us
to fifteen after. What are yougoing to do? I said, Well, I
don't know.
I don't know how much time I'vegot today. And they said, You've

(01:11:57):
got fifteen minutes. I said,Okay, that's fine. But it ended
up being about thirty, but Istill did the fifteen minute one
and I let them out early. And hewas the first one that come
through and he reached down intohis wallet out of the front of
them bib overalls, and he laidtwo $100 bills down in that

(01:12:19):
bible and says, You can comeback anytime you want to.
And you can tell he kinda ranthe church, you know? He wasn't
the pastor, but he was a And soI always find that very
interesting, but I loved meetingthe people. I loved spreading

(01:12:40):
God's word. And I just knew thatwas my calling. I was gonna be
able to go on mission trips.
I was gonna deliver Bibles andand got to do that. I just
figured I'd still be doing thattoday.

T.J. (01:12:55):
How often were you a Gideon speaker? Could you do it
every Sunday?

Greg (01:13:01):
You could. I I because not everyone in your camp, per se,
is what they called it, wantedto be a speaker. Some were
donation getters, others werejust handing out the scriptures
at campuses and some were justgoing into schools at the time,

(01:13:26):
you know, all of this, who haddifferent jobs. But there were
about four of us that werespeakers, and we would rotate.
Okay?
But there were times, TJ, I wasthree Sundays in a row. And I
loved it. And at the time, I waslike, wow, is this really?

(01:13:49):
Should I be at my own church orwhatever like that? But yet
again, I I knew I was gonna bethere on Sunday night.
I knew I was gonna be there onWednesdays. It it it was serving
in multiple capacities. Itreally was.

T.J. (01:14:04):
Walk me through the transition from public speaking
and preaching through the Gideonand how that translated into a
calling in the ministry for theCumberland Presbyterian Church.

Greg (01:14:20):
You know, I I've been blessed with a gift. I love to
tell stories. I love to tellstories, and I love to I love to
be a coach. I love coachingpeople. I love to motivate
people or try to motivatepeople.
And whenever I was with theGideons, that's what I was

(01:14:43):
doing, that it was the Lord'swork, that he was taking your
donations and multiplying them.And whenever I would leave there
or whenever we were part of thatservice, the Lord and the Holy
Spirit were working in ways thatI would see it, it was moving

(01:15:03):
them emotionally. Emotionally tobe a part of growing God's
kingdom. And it didn't have tojust happen in their own
churches and communities. It wasgonna happen in places that we
wouldn't see.
And with that, I was like, Man,the Lord's given me this

(01:15:26):
opportunity to share with thesepeople. And then they would ask
me to come back and speakanother time that didn't have
anything to do with the Gideons.

T.J. (01:15:38):
Okay.

Greg (01:15:41):
And I was like, Okay, what's going on here? And then
as transitioning and then backto my home church there in
Glasgow, it just people justkept asking, Hey, will you can

(01:16:02):
you cover for me this Sunday atthis church? Or they would say,
oh, hey, are you preachingSunday? You need to be preaching
Sunday night, you know? And andso it was the Holy Spirit
moving.
And guess what? Tim loved itbecause he wasn't having to
prepare two sermons for aSunday. He was pushing it off on

(01:16:27):
myself and Barry Cradock. I knowyou've met Barry before and just
what a and we did quite a bit ofthat. Now there were other
elders too that spoke andthings, but we were just the
ones that fell into the pastorrole for right now.

T.J. (01:16:49):
What was it like entering into the educational process to
become an ordained minister as asecond, third, maybe even a
fourth career?

Greg (01:17:02):
Yeah. Too old to be going back to school.

T.J. (01:17:07):
Was that your first reaction?

Greg (01:17:09):
It was. It it scared me to death because TJ, I was a
farmer. I was not a scholar.Okay? I was a laborer.
You give me a project, I'llknock it out for you. Yeah. The
heavier, the better. Yeah.

T.J. (01:17:27):
Yeah. You're a doer.

Greg (01:17:28):
Yeah. And schooling to be totally transparent, and I'm not
ashamed of this, I have to readscripture over and over again
sometimes to be able to evencomprehend it and books to be
able to comprehend it. Andsometimes I have trouble

(01:17:52):
translating it and just puttingit into the right words that
someone older than eight needsto hear.

T.J. (01:18:03):
Greg. Greg, I I don't think you're unique in that area
at all. I have to do the samething multiple

Greg (01:18:11):
times. Man, and I just struggled with that. I really
did. And then and in myprofessional career, I had a
boss that came through and atthe time it really, it really
hurt my feelings. It really did.

(01:18:33):
He said, hey, I've got a bookhere for you. And I said, Okay.
And it was How to Speak inEnglish for Dummies.

T.J. (01:18:49):
Oh no.

Greg (01:18:51):
Okay. Well, I was in the broadcast career. So you
couldn't go on and just be thehick all the time if you were
gonna be on the radio.

T.J. (01:19:04):
Right. Okay.

Greg (01:19:06):
So he said, I'm not, I'm not saying you're dumb. I'm just
saying, if you want to leadpeople, you need to use some
proper language and properpronunciations. And I think this
will help you. So we're going togo through this together. And I

(01:19:26):
had to report to him everyMonday and we did a conference
call.

T.J. (01:19:35):
Right.

Greg (01:19:36):
And he was like, Okay, do you get your homework done? And
at the time, I was like, Now,that doesn't keep me from using
the wrong verbs or nouns or inthe wrong language still today.
I'm very much a country bumpkin.I'm still labeled, boy, you're

(01:19:59):
just a country boy, aren't you?I sure am.
Yes, ma'am. But it did it didenlighten me that there there's
a difference in the two theirs.

T.J. (01:20:12):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. You you I'm surprised that I mean,
because it could have gone acouple different ways and
granted I was not in your shoes.The book could have just been
handed it to you and just sentyou away. This this individual
did work through the book withyou.

(01:20:32):
So there was a level ofcommitment.

Greg (01:20:35):
Yeah. Absolutely. And and what guess what? It was gonna
make me better for his businesstoo. Yeah.
Because I I was meeting I wasgoing to be meeting with clients
that were going to be spendingquite a few thousand dollars.
And you don't want to go in andmeet with someone and ask them

(01:20:55):
for something. And you act likeyou're from the backwoods and,
you know, and I actually wasfrom the backwoods, but, you
know, you have to act better.

T.J. (01:21:11):
Yeah. Yeah.

Greg (01:21:12):
And and it proved dividends.

T.J. (01:21:14):
Yeah. I'm I'm chuckling not at your expense. It's just
No. The older I get, the moreI'm like, okay. Just kinda own
or lean into who you are.
You know? An internal discussionfor me. And, not that help is
not certainly needed. And I hopeif help was offered, I would

(01:21:38):
receive it. But there is a levelof like, just being comfortable
in your own skin.

Greg (01:21:44):
Sure. And at the time, was already, I'd already taken quite
a few pause classes and gottensome homework back that was
looked like people had bled overthem, you know, and rightfully
so. But it was also teachingexperience of, man, you're gonna

(01:22:11):
have to put some thought intothis. Okay. And trying to be by
vocational, man, there werethere were times that I was
working sixty plus hours a weekand then trying to preach and
then trying to do a posh class.
And for four years there, I wasI was coaching baseball Wow. At

(01:22:36):
at the at the middle schoollevel. I I was a head baseball
coach at the middle schoollevel. And and, yes, I I was
like, man, don't tell me you'vegot something to do. I'll match
that and raise you two.
You know, come to church.

T.J. (01:22:55):
Yeah.

Greg (01:22:57):
But looking back, I POS gave me a lot of anxiety. And
for the people that say that POSis a a cheap way out, a easier
way out, I invite you to jump inon a few of those classes. And a

(01:23:24):
few of those, and you try, usesome of that. And I think you
will be and but I needed it.Okay?
The and to be honest with you,the part that I hated the most
was staying in the dorms. And Iand I told Michael Qualls that,

(01:23:46):
you know, because we could havebeen doing this long, long time
ago, but I have builtrelationships by going to Bethel
University with people out ofArkansas, Oklahoma, here in
Tennessee. I never would be atthe Liberty CP Church if I had

(01:24:08):
never went to Paws. I would not.And and the Lord knew that.
Okay? So, yeah, that that highanxiety at that time and credit
where credit's due, I startedusing the resources that were
around me. My wife, schoolteacher, thirty eight years, be

(01:24:30):
retiring in about four weeks.Okay. All right.
Well, I'm sorry. I said thirtyeight years. That's how long
we've been married. Thirty,thirty three years she's she's
taught. Okay?
And my daughter is an Englishmajor. So I was like, Man, quit
turning these papers in and justusing Grammarly. Let them look

(01:24:53):
over that thing and see if theycan help you just a little bit,
you know?

T.J. (01:24:59):
It takes a level of humility though. I mean

Greg (01:25:02):
It does.

T.J. (01:25:03):
To have your own child, adult child, but have your own
child or your spouse read overyour work. I mean, it really
makes it vulnerable as opposedto your instructor, you know,
somebody like me. I mean, youdon't know me. You know? This is
my input or my opinion or thegrade.
But, you know, your spouse, yourchild, that's a little bit

(01:25:25):
different. They're stuck withyou.

Greg (01:25:28):
But my competitive nature and my work ethic that my
parents had put in there, man,it was just something about, you
just didn't wanna get that gradeback and you're just average.

T.J. (01:25:45):
Yeah. You

Greg (01:25:46):
know? And I know I am. I am just an average student. But
you're doing this in the longrun for the Lord that's way
above average. But I had to comedown from my high horse on that
just a little bit.
Let's just get through this andthen we'll be okay.

T.J. (01:26:08):
Well, and let me clarify for a minute, I should have done
this earlier. The program ofalternate studies is a pathway
for ordination to the word andthe sacraments in the Cumberland
Presbyterian Church. Someone whois called can go to a graduate
school of theology. Another pathis to program of alternate

(01:26:32):
studies. Greg's path was programof alternate studies.
And that's why I was curious,you know, how challenging
challenging that is for you, forthe busy person that you are and
were at that time.

Greg (01:26:50):
Sure. And that and I accepted a church in Edmondson
County, Kentucky, and had notstarted my POS program. This was
in 02/2012.

T.J. (01:27:01):
Alright.

Greg (01:27:01):
Okay? I never took my first POS class till 02/2015.

T.J. (01:27:11):
Okay.

Greg (01:27:13):
Because for one reason or another, they lost the
paperwork. It took approval togo through, you know, the the
presbytery has to meet with youand then you had to get
approved. It was just such along process and then and then

(01:27:36):
they lost the paperwork again.

T.J. (01:27:38):
Oh, wow. Wow.

Greg (01:27:40):
So, in that process, I was beginning to question, I missing
something? Am I really supposedto be doing this? But it also
allowed me through that processto finish up my baseball career

(01:28:02):
to say, okay, I've got that outof the way. I was able to coach
my son. Okay.
Got that out of the way. And notthat I was trying to get it out
of the way. I just didn't knowat the time. Okay?

T.J. (01:28:16):
You needed to kind of shed some of these things that you
were doing so that you couldfocus

Greg (01:28:22):
on That's right. That's exactly right. And and then once
that happened, and and guesswhat? I was working in the
broadcast business, and wheneverI would leave and go to Memphis
for those pause classes orwhatever, they allowed me to use

(01:28:42):
back to back weeks.

T.J. (01:28:44):
Oh, wow.

Greg (01:28:45):
Which it and and a lot of businesses will not let you take
back to back weeks on vacationbecause you're just away from
the business too long.

T.J. (01:28:55):
Right.

Greg (01:28:56):
But they would allow me to do that. Nice. And there's
nothing like sleeping in a twinbed in a dorm room. You know, I
was sick. I was literally sickto my stomach.
The the first week that I wasthere ever. It just tore me up

(01:29:18):
from the floor up. And It was abit but it grew me.

T.J. (01:29:23):
Yeah. It was

Greg (01:29:24):
a big Yeah. Your routine

T.J. (01:29:26):
was turned upside down. You were, you know, starting a
new adventure, and you're gonnahave to write, read, study,

Greg (01:29:37):
speak. Exactly. Yeah. And and it's we weren't living out
in the forest. Okay?
We had running water, bathrooms,all of that, but it it still was
not home. And and it wasn't, Ididn't feel like I was in
control and had more food than Ihad at home. You eat all the

(01:30:01):
time at Potts. So whenever youwent in person, I think a lot of
it now is more online. But

T.J. (01:30:10):
Well, overall okay. Now now that the preparation, the
education for ordination isbehind you, overall, how was
that experience for you andhelping you in what you're doing
today?

Greg (01:30:26):
It it was crucial. It was crucial. It it it taught me how
to use God's holy word. Okay? Atthe time, I didn't know that.
It also taught me that, hey,this ethics class, it doesn't

(01:30:46):
just stop here. We have justgive you a grain of sand. You're
going to have to desire to keepgoing into pastoral ethics and
people ethics. I could go on andon about all of those classes,
each and every one. PatPickett's, the disciples class,

(01:31:12):
Pat Pickett's, the the Psalms,all of those classes like that.
It it's not a one time read. Andthe and the Lord's word is not a
one time read. You can't justget it out of one part of it.
And I feel like I'm preaching alittle bit, but it I look back,

(01:31:35):
and I don't know why God didn'tstrike me dead out of the pulpit
of some of the sermons that Ipreached early. Okay?
He his grace is definitely big.I can contest that.

T.J. (01:31:53):
That's why I'm laughing is still Yeah. Yeah. Whether in the
preparation or delivery, thefailures are on me. Amen.

Greg (01:32:11):
Me too. And and and I've been gracious enough to be
surrounded by elders that helpedme, a family that supported me.
And guess what? Like it or not,whenever you get me, we're a

(01:32:33):
close enough family, you get usall. You know, my daughter is so
inspirational and she has herown pages and she's wrote for
the CP Magazine before andevotionals and things like that.
And she'd been born and raisedKungwon Presbyterian. That's all
she knows. And so very blessed.My wife, super talented teacher

(01:33:01):
and can write her own curriculumfor VBS and has done that for
the last two years. And we likeserving TJ, and that's part of
what the schooling was even asbad as I hated it.
It's crucial, and I see theimportance of continuing

(01:33:24):
education.

T.J. (01:33:27):
Alright. Let me do an experiment with you. With your
background in broadcasting andyour marketing in terms of,
articulating and expressingideas in a concise way, In
thirty seconds or less,describe, the church that you're

(01:33:48):
currently serving, LibertyCumberland Presbyterian Church
in McMinnville, Tennessee, in away that the listener knows
nothing about the congregationand why would they even be
interested. You can take asecond if you need it. Just kind

(01:34:10):
of formulate your ideas.
But I thought I would throw thischallenge at you. It's it's also
a transition in our conversationas well.

Greg (01:34:19):
Sure. Sure. I'm not timing. I'm not timing. This
would be this would be reallyreally this would be really
really rough, but it it wouldprobably start out something
like this.
Well, greetings, everyone. Thisis Greg Bowen from the Liberty

(01:34:40):
Cumberland Presbyterian Church.So nice to be in front of you
this afternoon. Just wanna takethe opportunity to share with
you. Hey.
Are you looking for somethingfun? Are you looking for
something that will help you getthrough the week? Are you tired
of just coffee and Red Bull? Howabout the Lord Jesus Christ?

(01:35:05):
Every Sunday we have services.
We have Sunday school at 10AM,worship service at eleven. We'd
love for you to come and be apart of that. You can even come
hungry. We've got donuts andcoffee. We'd love to share with
you, but most of all, we justlove to share with you and your
family to help you get throughwhat sometimes we just don't

(01:35:28):
know how we're going to make itthrough the storm.
We can help you get through thatstorm because we know a God, and
that god is Jesus Christ. Comevisit us. 317 Liberty Lane,
McMinnville, Tennessee. Hope tosee you soon. God bless.

T.J. (01:35:44):
Greg, that is scary good. That is scary.

Greg (01:35:50):
Know about that. But

T.J. (01:35:52):
For off the cuff, I mean, you didn't know I was gonna ask
you. I didn't know I was gonnaask you that. So that was not
rehearsed. So, alright. You younow have it on recording.
So, this gets published. You canplay it back and thinker with it
and publish it somewhere else.

Greg (01:36:15):
Take that to the local radio station or something. You

T.J. (01:36:18):
know? Or TikTok or it's already made. Alright. Let's
expand the conversation out abit. So we talked about liberty.
You you introduced liberty. Whatmakes it unique? Let's talk
about the CumberlandPresbyterian Church as a

(01:36:39):
denomination. What do you thinkare some of its strengths, and
what are your hopes for thechurch moving into the future?

Greg (01:36:54):
Denomination wise. Correct? Correct. We're talking
denomination.

T.J. (01:36:57):
Church large. Cumberland Presbyter at large.

Greg (01:37:02):
Denomination wise, there's a reason why I stay connected to
the Cumberland PresbyterianChurch because I truly believe
it is what its confession offaith says. We are a
connectional church and we wantto be like Christ. Come, be a

(01:37:26):
part of us. Okay? And let's growtogether.
I'm a prime example of that.Okay? That we don't have to come
ready. Perfect. Okay?
We just have to come be willingto change and move closer in a
relationship with it. Man,that's what draws me so much.

(01:37:49):
And there's other denominationsthat say, yeah, we believe that
too. Well, until I don't dresslike you do or believe
everything that you believe, youknow? And there's room for
modification in there just alittle bit.
Okay? Teaching wise, and notthat we're taking anything from

(01:38:14):
the scripture. I'm saying wedon't hold you to the exact
standard of how we takecommunion or baptism. Big one,
okay, that people like to fightabout. So that's why I'm so

(01:38:36):
involved and connected to theCumberland Presbyterian
denomination.
Plus, my wife gave me theultimatum. No. No, she didn't.
She couldn't. Looking into the

T.J. (01:38:48):
future, what are some aspirations and hopes that you
have for the denomination? Thechurch at large.

Greg (01:38:58):
Sure. Sure. And and please hear me whenever I make this
statement. I would like to seeus become more engaged with some
plant churches in the areas thatare heavily populated. Okay?

(01:39:20):
Now, we are doing well in othercountries really spreading the
word of god and people arebecoming Cumberland
Presbyterians. Okay? But most ofall, they're becoming followers
of Jesus Christ. Mhmm. And Ithink if our denomination will

(01:39:40):
will shift that focus just alittle bit, and we wouldn't have
to turn the heat up much thatthat we we shift the focus to to
going into concentrated areasand repeating the message of
drawing people in just like ajust like a commercial.

(01:40:03):
Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Peoplewill come to know the Lord. And
people will it it will help growour denomination.
And that's what concerns meabout our denomination.
Especially if we can't come tosome type of unity off of some

(01:40:25):
of our conflicts. Guess what?TJ, you and I don't have to
agree on everything. And we canstill like each other.
And we can still be on podcasttogether. And we can still sit
down and eat together and thingslike that. What we can't do is

(01:40:46):
say, TJ, he believes that way.So I'm done with him.

T.J. (01:40:52):
Right.

Greg (01:40:53):
You know, and, but that's what Satan wants. The devil
works in a way that he he'slooking to to spread people, and
he's done that most of all withfamilies.

T.J. (01:41:06):
Yeah. There's a long list of reasons why you wouldn't want
to hang out with me.

Greg (01:41:13):
Me as well.

T.J. (01:41:14):
Just ask anyone in my family.

Greg (01:41:17):
Help me out. Me as

T.J. (01:41:21):
well. I hear what you're saying in terms of not to make
light of it. But, yeah, that'sthe easy part. The hard part is
I think working together.

Greg (01:41:31):
Sure. Absolutely. Yeah.

T.J. (01:41:34):
No one told me it would be easy.

Greg (01:41:37):
Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. Guess what? Whenever
we are going through the motionsof trying to help people, we're
back yet again to the example.

(01:41:57):
The example. And guilty ascharged, You know, sometimes we
have to look at ourselves andthat's why the importance of
staying in the word, staying inourselves, staying connected to
our Lord helps us evaluate thatand quit judging so many other

(01:42:20):
people and yeah, I I know allthat sounds like on repeat but
that that's that's how I feelabout it and and I and I love
the intentionality of just beingfocused on God's will and God's
plan.

T.J. (01:42:40):
Greg, to wrap up our conversation, can you name a
song or a album and or a moviethat you've watched that has
impacted your faith, made yourfaith a little bit stronger,

(01:43:01):
spoke to you in a particularway?

Greg (01:43:05):
My worship leader, piano player at the church that I came
from, Mount Pleasant inKentucky, and then even down
here. Surely the presence of theLord is in this place. Okay? And

(01:43:28):
that that song was not justwrote about the presence of the
Lord is just shows up on Sunday.It's it's talking about us
personally.
Mhmm. Surely the presence of theLord is in this place. Even
though I don't deserve him to bewith me. He's still with me. And

(01:43:49):
even whenever I'm messing up,even whenever I I'm misquoting
scripture, surely the presenceof the Lord is in this place.
And that is just so powerful tome. And so that's a song that
that continues to move me tothis day. Whenever it's sung in

(01:44:13):
church or I hear it on the radioand I play it often to remind
me. He's with you even throughthe troubled times.

T.J. (01:44:24):
Any movie?

Greg (01:44:26):
I I'm not a big movie guy.

T.J. (01:44:28):
Alright. I was expecting some sort of baseball movie.

Greg (01:44:33):
Yeah. No. I love all of those and everything, but I I

T.J. (01:44:43):
Well, man, I'll help bail you out. Know, a man Okay. If
you probably didn't have time tosit down and watch an entire
film. If you like me, will takeme three days to get through a
film.

Greg (01:45:00):
Yeah. And I'm a big, I like lines and things like that
or whatever. You would call mecrazy. Do you know how a lot of
times I calm my mind of a night?

T.J. (01:45:18):
No. What do you do?

Greg (01:45:21):
Watch Andy Griffith.

T.J. (01:45:23):
Okay. Alright.

Greg (01:45:25):
Now I'd be a hard stump on an Andy Griffith quiz, but I I
it just calms me. There'sthere's no there's no gunshots
in it except for Barney's everynow and then. But there's no
killing. It's light humor. Andthere's a lot of times I've

(01:45:49):
never even watched it becauseI've seen it so many times.
I can tell you what's playing inmy mind or what's on the screen.
But I just, I just listened toit because it removes me from,
and, and, but if I were to showthe audience my playlist, I

(01:46:12):
might be excommunicated. I don'tknow. Because I listen to a lot
of music and things like thatwhenever I'm working and those
type deals. I, If I were tolisten, I have to be locked in
to your podcast.
Uh-huh. Okay? I can't thinkabout other things.

T.J. (01:46:32):
Okay.

Greg (01:46:33):
Okay? But I can listen to Andy Griffith and think about
other things and be doing otherthings and not mess it up too
bad.

T.J. (01:46:40):
Okay.

Greg (01:46:41):
But if but if I'm listening to that, I can't turn
around and, you know, be engagedin something and be productive.
That that's my single sidedmind, I guess.

T.J. (01:46:55):
Well, Greg, when this podcast, this conversation comes
out, are you gonna listen toyourself?

Greg (01:47:03):
Maybe partially.

T.J. (01:47:06):
It's hard.

Greg (01:47:07):
It it is. I I mean, I try to every Sunday, I try to go
back and listen to what I'vedone, how bad I've messed it up.
And then I'm like, well, it'sdone out there now. There's
nothing I can do about it. SoI've never listened to the

(01:47:31):
entire sermon.

T.J. (01:47:32):
Okay.

Greg (01:47:33):
They would have to take that fast forward button off my
iPhone to

T.J. (01:47:37):
do that.

Greg (01:47:40):
I I just struggle with that part of it. I I think I
think I've noticed something,and you've revealed to me today
about yourself. We are selfconscious people. We we we would
like to everything to be perfectand if it tears up, I can fix

(01:48:01):
it.

T.J. (01:48:02):
Yeah.

Greg (01:48:02):
And just sometimes we just can't fix it. And even through
your editing, whenever you getthrough today, you won't be able
to fix all of my mistakes.

T.J. (01:48:16):
Yeah. I, you know, I'm yeah. I'm learning. I I don't
edit for content, and I don'tsee my goal as well fixing you.

Greg (01:48:27):
Yeah.

T.J. (01:48:29):
And I'm not

Greg (01:48:29):
But I would.

T.J. (01:48:30):
On fixing me. So

Greg (01:48:32):
Yeah. Yeah. But I would, though. You know?

T.J. (01:48:37):
You know, the Cumberland Road is two people having a
faith conversation about god andthe hopes that those who listen
to it may have a deeper sense ofhow god is moving in the world.
And that's an imperfectconversation.

Greg (01:48:55):
Yeah.

T.J. (01:48:55):
I try to clean background noise, breaks. We took a break
earlier, of course. But otherthan that, I mean, I don't know
where people are when they'relistening. I hope they enjoy,
and I hope they get somethingout of each and every guest. I
know that I do.

Greg (01:49:15):
True. Amen to that.

T.J. (01:49:17):
Thank you so much for giving me most of your morning
to be able to have this thistime, your your faith journey.
And I've glad to get to know youbetter. And

Greg (01:49:32):
Man, I've enjoyed it.

T.J. (01:49:33):
I know. Yeah. We have crossed paths several times, but
never really sat down had had anopportunity to sit down and have
a deep discussion like today.

Greg (01:49:46):
True.

T.J. (01:49:47):
I'm glad you're able to.

Greg (01:49:50):
Can I can I share what I share with my congregation 99.9%
of the time? And And it's just,it's became my motto just a
little bit, I guess, throughscripture.

T.J. (01:50:04):
Let's hear it.

Greg (01:50:05):
But it's all based out of number six and I truly believe
this. Okay? And I pray this forall of my people, and I pray it
for you. May the Lord bless youand keep you. May His face shine
graciously down upon you and allof your podcasts and all of your

(01:50:25):
ministry.
But most of all, TJ, I pray hegives you peace.

T.J. (01:50:32):
Thank you, Greg.
Thank you for listening to thisepisode of Cumberland Road.
Greg's journey reminded me of apassage from Leo Roston, a
writer and humorist, in his bookFrom Passions and Prejudices. I
cannot believe that the purposeof life is to be happy. I think

(01:50:56):
the purpose of life is to beuseful, to be responsible, to be
honorable, to be compassionate.It is, above all, to matter, to
count, to stand for something,to have it make some difference
that you lived at all. Thanksfor listening.

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Greg Bowen - Making Connections & Being Involved

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Greg Bowen - Making Connections & Being Involved