Matt Gore - Publishing, Faith, and the Flair for Collecting - Cumberland Road

Episode Transcript
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T.J. (00:03):
You're listening to the Cumberland Road, and I'm your
host, TJ Malinovsky. Thefollowing is a faith
conversation with Matt Gore, aBritish journalist, historian,
pop culturalist, author, and anenthusiast for all things

(00:26):
collectible. He is the editorand publications manager of one
of the longest running magazinesin North America, the Cumberland
Presbyterian, a magazine whosemotto reflects its church's
namesake, in essentials unity,in nonessentials liberty, and in

(00:50):
all things charity. Enjoy thisfaith conversation with Matt
Gore.
Matt, you are the editor andpublications manager of the
Cumberland Presbyterian, apublication that has been in

(01:13):
circulation for a 194 years,focusing on faith based articles
and news of the church. Aquestion for you is, what are
the challenges and joys of beingresponsible for a magazine with
such a long history and legacy?

Matt (01:31):
I think the primary challenge is probably securing
material to include in themagazine.

T.J. (01:38):
I figured you would say hitting the deadline.

Matt (01:43):
No. Generally, we've hit the deadline. During the
pandemic, we had a long periodof not hitting the deadline
Mhmm. Which was made even worseby a long period of the postal
service taking up to 3 months toactually circulate an issue of
our magazine. But more oftenthan not, we hit the deadline.

(02:06):
I can't recall an instance wherewe have missed the drop dead
deadline, which is where youthrow up your hands and and give
up all hope of having themagazine out on time. But, yeah,
I'd still say the the mainproblem, main problem, main
challenge is getting material toput in the magazine.

T.J. (02:32):
When you talk about material, do you mean, you know,
contributions from writers,journalists, churches? Are you
talking about your own writings,all the above?

Matt (02:45):
Well, I'm, I guess, trapped here. So having my
contribution is not all thatdifficult because I'm here every
day and I'm gonna do that.What's difficult is getting the
material that the GeneralAssembly has said we have to
cover. The things that GeneralAssembly's dictated are supposed

(03:06):
to be in the magazine, and thatis the news from presbytery's
and synods. And it's likepulling teeth to get that
information sometimes, and andfrom some people.
Mhmm. You know, some people

T.J. (03:23):
are

Matt (03:23):
very rapid and send a synopsis of their actions of
their judicatory justautomatically, and some have to
be reminded over and over again.And then we have some
presbyteries that just never doreport, and that is despite
general assembly telling themthey have to.

T.J. (03:44):
Walk me through I'm in a unique position because we work
in the same building. But walkme through kind of the process
of magazine of an issue fromstart to finish? For those who
don't know of what that entailsfrom your perspective as an
editor and publications

Matt (04:06):
manager? Well, the process really starts or can start
months in advance. I currentlyhave on my computer, folders for
each month of the year, goinginto at this point, going into
2020 5. And as material occursthat should be included in a

(04:28):
specific issue, because we havea map of content over the course
of a year. So if I havesomething for a specific issue,
it could be a year from now.
We'll go ahead I'll go ahead anddrop that into the folder for
for that specific month. Butreally what occurs, like, 2

(04:50):
months before an issue is due,I'll start gathering short
subjects and obituaries, thekind of thing that we run every
month, and start dedicating themto that issue and, you know
specific folders for the issue.And as time progresses,

(05:11):
hopefully, people in the church,presbyteries, synods, you know,
congregations, whoever wants tosubmit material will send
something during that timeperiod. So in theory, when it's
actually time to gatherinformation for a specific
issue, already have some thingsin the bank that are ready to be

(05:34):
fleshed out and ready to run-inthat issue. Also, works the same
way with letters to the editoror op ed pieces.
An op ed piece is simply alonger than normal letter to the
editor usually. We do notsolicit any of that material,
but we have not yet failed torun anything that has been

(05:57):
submitted

T.J. (05:59):
Yet.

Matt (05:59):
Yet. I'm not saying it's not possible. In fact, there are
I have 2 very similar lettersthat would theoretically go in
the April issue, and I willprobably push one of them back
till May rather than have justan overabundance of the same
opinion in that issue. I'm oftenasked why, still on the

(06:28):
editorial content, why we don'trun letters or op ads supporting
or attacking one position oranother. And the reason for that
is we run what we get.
And if everyone is on everythingthat's submitted is on the same
side of an issue, then that'swhat we run. We're not going out

(06:50):
looking for people to take thecounterpoint.

T.J. (06:56):
What is it like to edit the material as it comes in?
Because I've been on the writingside, but I haven't been on the
editorial side where you may getutter grammatical garbage,
speaking specifically of my ownsubmissions. But but how do you

(07:19):
keep the integrity of thearticle and the writer's intent?
And can you always determinewhat the writer's intent is?

Matt (07:28):
No. No. Can't always be determine what the writer's
intent is. And in which case,we'll go back to the writer and
say, hey, is this what you mean?Or this is what you wrote.
I think it means this. Is thatwhat you really mean? And then
give the writer an opportunityto come back and change what

(07:51):
they've written, correct whatthey've written, so that there
isn't any room formisinterpretation. I've done
that numerous times, and I'vedone that numerous times trying
to correct something that seemsto be fallacious. Only to have
the writer insist that that istheir intent.

(08:15):
And then at that point, it's outof my hands because I'm not
interested in changing anyone'sintent.

T.J. (08:24):
Mhmm.

Matt (08:24):
I want their message to come through. Now we will check.
We will fix grammar, spellingerrors, things like that, but
not the intent of what thewriter's trying to express.

T.J. (08:40):
Right. I'm notorious for having tremendously long string
on sentences. Has a has a verb,has a noun, and

Matt (08:50):
Yes. You are.

T.J. (08:52):
But they can go on and on and on. And, I know that about
and I try to do better. However,what about there's also tones in
writing, like many of us writethe way we speak. Is that a
challenge that you face as aneditor? Because writing an

(09:15):
article or does it matter aboutthe content?
Maybe that that tone isappropriate for the content. Or
maybe it's just me just kind ofreflecting back on my own
writings that sometimes we dowrite the way that we speak, and
yet it doesn't look as polishedwhen you go back and read the

(09:38):
material. Again, I'm speakingfrom my own perspective, but how
do you is that an issue that youhave faced as an editor? Is it
is it that big of a deal?

Matt (09:48):
It's it's it is a it's an it's an issue. It's not a large
issue. Some people do write inan incredibly conversational
style. But when you say peoplewrite how they speak, they don't
really write how they speak.Because when they're writing
something, they have time tothink about it, to clean it up,

(10:11):
and you don't tumble overjumbled thoughts, whereas in a
an actual conversation, you do.
So, you know, peep people tendto express themselves better
even if they don't think they doin a written form than in a
spoken form.

T.J. (10:32):
How about the joys? We've talked about some of the
challenges. What are the joys ofbeing responsible for the
Cumberland PresbyterianMagazine?

Matt (10:42):
I think probably the greatest joy is the occasions
where someone really appreciatesan issue of the magazine or an
article in the magazine. Andlook, can't wait to tell you how
wonderful they thought aspecific article was, how
delighted they were that wementioned, excuse me, that we

(11:06):
mentioned their church in anarticle, how delighted they were
that we ran a picture of theirBoy Scout troop or or whatever.
But that's really a lot of funwhen someone does that. Another
thing that and this is gonnasound strange, but another thing
that really makes me happy iswhen a subscriber renews their

(11:26):
subscription for an absurdlylong period of time. And I think
the current the current recordis 12 years.

T.J. (11:35):
Wow.

Matt (11:36):
Yeah. 12 year subscription renewal, which and that that
shows a lot of confidence in thepublication.

T.J. (11:44):
Right.

Matt (11:44):
That they're willing to invest well, it's not a great
deal of money because we'refairly inexpensive, but still 12
years worth of it.

T.J. (11:53):
Yeah.

Matt (11:55):
I got a kick out of that.

T.J. (11:56):
Yeah. From a print publication, the cost of the
magazine is not that much. Butgoing back to the challenges for
a minute, you know, most ofpeople's consuming of news and
information and faith basedarticles is moving online. It's
digital. It's not the paper.

(12:18):
How is that or has that affectedthe Cumberland Presbyterian as a
publication?

Matt (12:24):
Well, of course it has. I mean, that you know, that is
just the way publishing is atthe moment. It's probably
affected us less, becauseCumberland Presbyterian tends to
have both an older and moretraditional demographic.

T.J. (12:44):
Mhmm.

Matt (12:46):
That is we have young we have young subscribers, but I
would say our our youngsubscribers tend to be old
souls, who probably would bejust as happy living 50 years
ago as they are today. So whilewe we, like everyone else, are

(13:12):
declining in circulation slowly,it's probably less apparent in
our little niche than it is justin a general publication.

T.J. (13:24):
Alright. We've talked about your role in the church.
Let's talk about Matt when hewas younger. Did you dream of
being an editor of a magazine

Matt (13:36):
Yes.

T.J. (13:36):
When you

Matt (13:37):
were a kid? Absolutely.

T.J. (13:39):
How far back?

Matt (13:39):
When I was in my, oh, early teens. And I wasn't
necessarily an editor of amagazine, but an editor of a
periodical of some kind. This isabout the time that the, Lou
Grant TV show was airing.

T.J. (13:57):
Well, tell me more.

Matt (13:59):
Okay. You familiar with the Mary Tyler Moore Show? Young
fellow.

T.J. (14:04):
Yeah. I've heard of it.

Matt (14:05):
Yes. You've heard of it. Okay. Mary Tyler Moore Show was
a vastly popular sitcom starringMary Mary Tylenolore as a
producer in a newsroom inMinneapolis. Her boss was the
crotchety, cranky Lou Grant, whowas an old newspaper man who
just happened to be running atelevision newsroom.

(14:26):
When that series went off theair after, I think, 12 years,
they spun Lou Grant off into hisown series. Now I'm not just
positive, but I believe LouGrant ran as a hour long drama
for 3 years, 3 seasons, in whichLou Grant became the city editor

(14:50):
of a fictional Los Angelesnewspaper. And that was about
the time that I was thinkingjournalism was really cool. And
I was lucky that I have went toa high school that offered
journalism classes, had ajournalism oh, not a an entire

(15:10):
curriculum, but at least had aseries of journalism classes,
which I was able to take. And II thought that was just the
neatest thing and I always or Ithought anyway that I wanted to
be a print journalist,preferably in a Metropolitan
Daily Newspaper.

(15:31):
Now that part the Metropolitanpart never really happened.
Although I did work for theGlasgow Daily Times

T.J. (15:42):
In Kentucky.

Matt (15:43):
In Kentucky. Glasgow, Kentucky, and the Park City
Daily News, and that's theBowling Green Paper, is the Park
City because of the downtownpark. So they call it the Park
City, Not to be confused withPark City, which is about 20
miles further up the road.

T.J. (16:01):
Really?

Matt (16:02):
Yeah. So, yeah, that and that was off on a point of
confusion. But, yes, I wrote forPark City Daily News, wrote for
the Glasgow Daily Times, and Ithink I had one article in the
Barron County progress.

T.J. (16:16):
What is the attraction then and now to the journal
journalism aspect of of thisrole, of this career that you
have?

Matt (16:25):
I wish I could single that out. And I've often really
wondered what it is thatattracts me, you know, to that.
I, yeah, I used to think that itwould be really neat to be a war
correspondent, to be on, like, aon the front lines reporting the
news. And then I think aboutthat situation and, you know, in

(16:50):
any other circumstance, thatwould fill me with dread.

T.J. (16:53):
Right.

Matt (16:54):
But to be reporting on it, somehow, I don't know. It's just
it's sort of a differentfeeling. So I went through I
mean, when I was graduating fromhigh school, I looked around for
schools that were good atjournalism. There were really
two criteria. Are do they have agood journalism department, and

(17:17):
what kind of scholarship willthey give me?

T.J. (17:20):
These are very crucial to a young person.

Matt (17:22):
These are extremely crucial. Because my my parents
sort of left me alone. It'slike, yeah, go to college. You
figure out how you're gonna dothat. So, you know, I'm not not
saying they didn't help me, butit was always understood that I
would be dependent uponscholarships and work my way
through school.

(17:43):
So the schools that had the bestjournalism departments at the
time I guess I was just lucky inthat I was living in Glasgow,
Kentucky when I graduated fromhigh school, and Western
Kentucky University at that timehad one of the 2 best journalism
departments in the country.

T.J. (18:03):
Wow.

Matt (18:03):
And they also offered me an academic scholarship. So
there you go. There that's wentto journalism school at Western
Kentucky University and thengraduated with a journalism
degree.

T.J. (18:19):
What happened next? Did you did you do the war
correspondent? Did you findyourself in a combat situation?
Did you leave the confines ofthe state of Kentucky? Where did
where did Matt go aftergraduation?

Matt (18:35):
Well, after oh, this is kind of a this is a convoluted
tale. After graduation, I lookedfor a job. Now I was looking in
multiple fields because by thetime I graduated, I'd picked up

(18:55):
a second major, which I had asecond major in history, and I
had enough hours for althoughyou you couldn't declare 2
majors and multiple minors, ButI had enough hours to have
multiple minors, which isridiculous.

T.J. (19:18):
I can see history and journalism overlapping.

Matt (19:21):
History and journalism go together well. I had also enough
hours for a computer scienceminor. Had enough hours for an
English minor. And and then Howlong

T.J. (19:31):
were you in

Matt (19:32):
school? In a normal a normal 4 years in college.

T.J. (19:39):
Okay.

Matt (19:39):
Of course, I I was never a freshman. I started as a
sophomore because I had enoughtest or CLEP credit. I don't
know if CLEP is still around,but I had another enough college
level equivalency placement, Ithink, to skip my 1st year of
college. Still took me 4 yearsto graduate. And somewhere

(20:02):
around, I think in my 2ndsemester, it dawned on me that
where 3 classes were considereda a full course load.
Most people took 4 or maybe 5,but there weren't actually, at
that time, any limit in thenumber of classes you could
take, and it was all for thesame fee. Really? Yes. So you

(20:26):
once you had paid your my firstsemester, I think it was tuition
was a $139. So okay.
So once you had paid your yourmoney, you could take as many
classes as you could talk youracademic advisor into letting
you take. And you look at acourse catalog for a, you know,

(20:46):
I went to Western KentuckyUniversity and it's a pretty
diverse institution, and they'vegot some cool stuff in that
course catalog. It's like, howdo you not take supernatural
folklore? I don't know how youdon't take that. I mean, I had
to take that.
They offered classes in the artof film Okay. Which was

(21:09):
essentially a movie appreciationclass. Well, that's really cool.
So

T.J. (21:16):
It's amazing that you graduated. That you're

Matt (21:19):
It's amazing I'm not still there.

T.J. (21:21):
That's what I mean.

Matt (21:21):
I'm just still taking stuff. Yeah. So I had as many
as, 27 hours in 1 semester,which is considered, you know,
ridiculous. Yeah. I'm glad thatI had an academic adviser that I
don't know that he had my bestinterests at heart.

(21:43):
What he was interested in wasgetting me out of his office as
quickly as possible. Mhmm. So wewould signed off on everything
that I ever wanted to take,which is how I ended up with a
history major. Because wherewas, somewhere late in my

(22:03):
college career, maybe like 1stsemester senior, And one of my
professors says that he neededto talk to all the history
majors, so if all the historymajors would stay, everyone else
could go. Well, I want a historymajor, so I stood up to go.
And he turned to the limo misterGore, aren't you a history
major? I said, no. He said,you've taken every class I

(22:28):
teach. I said, well, yeah. Hadyou thought about picking up a
history major?
No. But so after that, Iexplored it, and I did. I
dropped the my second, the majorI was working on at the time and
picked up a history major. So soI ended up with a double degree.

(22:52):
But, oh, I I graduated with manymore hours than we're required
to graduate.
And when I finally put togethermy degree program, when I
finally had to file it, again,with a diff a different academic
adviser at that point, We westruggled a little trying to
figure out where in the world tofit things in, you know, my

(23:14):
degree program. It was funthough. I had I had an absolute
blast in college. I took somereally weird stuff.

T.J. (23:23):
How has it helped you in where you are in your career
now?

Matt (23:27):
Having taken all kinds of weird stuff?

T.J. (23:29):
Yeah.

Matt (23:29):
I was gonna a great background knowledge in things
that I'm interested in.

T.J. (23:35):
Yeah.

Matt (23:36):
I'm completely lost in things that I'm not interested
in. But in lots of areas, I havefairly good grounding in in the
basics, at least. I think Ithink that helps anyone.

T.J. (23:49):
You've amazed me over the years. I can ask you obscure
questions about usually, it'spop culture. Even to the point
where I can give you a partiallyric. I'm like, hey. I have
this lyric stuck in my head, butI don't remember who sings it or
I don't know who sings it.
And and I'll, text it to you orask you about it, and you're

(24:13):
like, oh, yeah. That's the BeeGees or Nina Simone or, you
know, whoever it is.

Matt (24:19):
Yeah.

T.J. (24:20):
I don't know how you do that.

Matt (24:24):
Music was has always been a big deal to me. I mean, I
can't make music. I, you know,gave up on the idea of being,
you know, a guitar player in arock band a long time ago,
because I that's not my talent,and I can't sing. And I think
7th grade chorus, they they justtold me to shut up. Up.

(24:46):
But I've always appreciatedpopular music.

T.J. (24:49):
Mhmm.

Matt (24:50):
I guess as a kid, I listened to a lot of top 40
radio. And somewhere along theline, I started collecting music
that interested me Mhmm. Whichwas primarily at that time
British invasion driven by TheBeatles, Rolling Stones, Kinks,
The Who, bands like that that Ireally, really loved. So all

(25:13):
through high school, I wasdiscovering music from it seems
like it it seemed at the timelike it was old, but it was
really, you know, 5 to 10 yearsold.

T.J. (25:26):
Right.

Matt (25:26):
And I don't know. I just have seem to have a a way of
remembering lyrics.

T.J. (25:34):
It was music that was new to you.

Matt (25:36):
It was it was new to me generally. I remember the most
probably the most embarrassingthing, most embarrassing
argument I ever had in highschool was when I tried to tell
someone that Elton John wrotePinball Wizard.

T.J. (25:48):
Did he?

Matt (25:49):
No. Pete Pete Townsend wrote

T.J. (25:51):
Pinball. Okay.

Matt (25:52):
But by golly, as a 15 year old, I insisted it was Elton
John.

T.J. (25:56):
And you're still carrying it to this day.

Matt (25:58):
Yeah. Because I'm still in touch with the guy that I had
the argument with, and every nowand then he brings it up.

T.J. (26:07):
Well, I also want to bring up that you were born in
England. I thought maybe wecould kinda walk through the
early parts of your life andSure. How you came to the United
States, where you lived in theUnited States, and, you know,
the relationship with yourparents and your family and that

(26:28):
sort of thing. So I'll let youtake over. One day in the past,
not too far away, little MatthewGore was born in England.

Matt (26:39):
I was born in Preston, Lancashire in 1962. Preston is
the nearest big town to where myparents lived at the time, which
was Leyland, Lancashire.Leyland, Lancashire is best
known for its trucks and buses,British Leyland, Leyland Motors,

(27:08):
which became an umbrella thatencompassed most of the
important British automobileMarquise. That is before the
British auto industry fell apartin the seventies. So my dad was
an engineer for British Leylandin Leyland.
My mom was from the seasideresort town of Blackpool, which

(27:32):
is, you know, 25 or 30 milesaway. It's not, it's not far at
all. They met because my mother,after World War 2, worked in a
tailor shop. And my dad and hisfriends used to go to that
tailor shop to get suits made,and, you know, that's how they

(27:56):
were introduced to each other.Mom was the office girl and
Jackson's the tailor inBlackpool, Lancashire, where my
dad liked to shop for his betterquality clothes.
Dad had, immediately after WorldWar 2, had been in Canada. The
company he worked for, BritishLeyland, sent him to Canada

(28:19):
right after World War 2 tobasically get some of their
production facilities going inCanada. He while in Canada or on
while he was living in Canada,he also toured in the United
States. And he said, so in theearly fifties, he decided if the

(28:41):
opportunity ever came up, hewould be willing to relocate
preferably to the United Statesor to Canada, but he wasn't he
didn't weren't really rulinganywhere out because he thought
that's where the future was.Then have you heard of the brain
drain?
No. Okay. The brain drain, tookplace in Europe after World War

(29:04):
2. So when American colleges anduniversities couldn't turn out
engineers and technicallyeducated people fast enough for
American industry. Americanindustry was expanding so
rapidly.
So American companies wentaround the world essentially

(29:25):
searching for qualifiedengineers. And England was a
favorite target for them,Because you hire a British
engineer, chances are you'regoing to be able to make
yourself understood with them.But I mean, they also recruited

(29:45):
from from Europe as well, fromSouth America. Technical people,
anyway, came to the UnitedStates in in great numbers. And
in 1968, dad was recruited by acompany called Safeguard
Industries, which was amanufacturer.
They hired him to come and workin their factory in Aberdeen,

(30:13):
South Dakota. Okay. And theymade gearboxes and engine blocks
for the automotive industry. Soin 1968, we uprooted from
England and moved to SouthDakota. Dad came first.
He came in, I think, March of68. Then my mom and I didn't

(30:36):
come until June or so.

T.J. (30:39):
So 68, you're 6 years old?

Matt (30:42):
Yeah. 6 years old.

T.J. (30:43):
So you you were old enough to have memories, make memories
in England.

Matt (30:49):
I mean, yeah. There are things that I remember about
England.

T.J. (30:52):
Looking back on that time, were you excited about the move?
Dreading it?

Matt (31:00):
I don't know. I think it was just an adventure at the
time. Mhmm.

T.J. (31:03):
Because it was permanent. Well, it was permanently
permanent.

Matt (31:06):
After moving to the United States, and all all my relatives
were in England, or well, almostall my relatives were in
England. Mhmm. So we went backonce or twice a year for, gosh,
until I was probably and I wasin college and we were still

(31:27):
going back once or twice a year.

T.J. (31:28):
Oh, wow.

Matt (31:29):
And sometimes for extended periods of time. Like, we might
go and spend 2 months. Mhmm. Sookay. You're kind of there.
It's not really a vacation. It'sjust kind of like the other
place you live.

T.J. (31:41):
Okay.

Matt (31:42):
So it wasn't really like being gone. Yep. So we were in
South Dakota, and my dad likedto say that we moved around
chasing dollars. And after ashort fairly short period, about
a year, he took a job with acompany in Wisconsin, so we
moved to Wisconsin. Then thecompany that had hired him in

(32:06):
South Dakota in the first placedecided they really needed him
back, so we moved back to SouthDakota.

T.J. (32:12):
Wow. Did you attend the same schools? In When you moved
back?

Matt (32:17):
Yeah. Same school that I left. How was that? Well, that
was at when I when I came back,it was for the start of 2nd
grade, and that was when peopleasked me what happened to my
accent. Interesting.
So somewhere between leavingSouth Dakota and going to
Wisconsin and then coming backto South Dakota, my accent went

(32:38):
away.

T.J. (32:39):
Interesting.

Matt (32:40):
Which was absolutely not a conscious thing.

T.J. (32:43):
How long were you

Matt (32:44):
gone? Just about a year.

T.J. (32:47):
Wow. That quick.

Matt (32:48):
Yeah. And then we came back to came back to Aberdeen,
South Dakota, which actuallyAberdeen, South Dakota was a
great place to grow up. It wasit was a great place to be a
kid. We lived there until, gosh,sometime in the early seventies
and then moved to North Dakota,then to South Carolina, then to

(33:13):
Glasgow, Kentucky, then myparent then we moved to Cave
City, Kentucky. And then when mydad retired, my dad and mom
moved back to South Dakota, andI stayed in Kentucky.

T.J. (33:26):
Because of the school?

Matt (33:27):
Yeah. And I was currently in school. I was about a
sophomore. Tell I wasn't either.Would've been a junior.
Never mind.

T.J. (33:33):
Tell as just as a side story, tell the story of when
you would go over to England fora month or 2 and how you got
around as a form oftransportation. The story, what
your dad would do as opposed tousing public transportation or a

(33:53):
rental car. Because can youimagine the rental fees if you
had a rental car for a month or2 at a time? I I don't know why,
but this story amazes me.

Matt (34:03):
Sometime, I guess, sometime in the early seventies,
my dad decided that rental carfees were ridiculous. And I'm
sure they were nothing comparedto what they are today. Mhmm.
But to him, they were justcrazy. So what we would do and
again, we were going to Englandfor an extended period of time,

(34:25):
like weeks, not just, you know,2 weeks of a vacation, but, you
know, I'm sure a a short tripwould probably have been a
month.
Okay. So my dad would the firstthing we would do when we got
there well, first, we'd we'd flyto, no. We fly to London. But
then when it became possible,we'd fly to Manchester because

(34:47):
that's an easy easy trip to thepart of England I'm from. And
once we were situated, like onday 2, dad would go looking for
a car to buy.
We would go to, like, used carlots and he knew people and look
at cars. And dad will be lookingfor a car, which in England they

(35:09):
call it an MOT. The MOTcertificate is the Ministry of
Transport, and each year youhave to have your car inspected,
and the Ministry of Transportgives you a certificate saying
this car is good for. And wewanted a car with a 12 month MOT
because it meant you had adecent car, it was gonna last a

(35:30):
year, and I guess the othercriteria was that we were
looking for a cheap car. So hewould buy a car, and we would
use that car while we were inEngland.
And then, like, the day beforewe left, he would find someone
to sell it to. I'm sure he linedup buyers before the last day.

(35:50):
But what it seemed like to mewas that it was like all of a
sudden, well, here's this guy.He's gonna buy the car. And,
yeah, we did that many times.
And he it was particularlypleasing to my dad when he made
money. Because sometimes hewould sell the car for more and
he paid for it. Mhmm. So it'slike, basically, you got paid to
drive around.

T.J. (36:10):
Right. I just think it was a creative way and really genius
of I don't wanna play pay thethe rental fees, which would be
quite a bit if you're drivingaround for a month or 2. And so
you just buy a car, use it likea rental, and then right before
you return, he'd sell it.

Matt (36:32):
Yep. That was exactly what he did. We had some interesting
cars. I remember a variety ofFords we had. One, the
speedometer didn't work, So wewould just sort of guess how
fast we were going.
No. Yeah.

T.J. (36:53):
As you were growing up in the States, you had several
moves, you know, to differentlocations. Did that bother you
as a kid? I mean, you you getestablished in one area. You
make your friends. You know, yougot your bike route.
You've got the places you wannaplay. You're involved in
different things, and thenyou're relocating because of
work. How did you Did you adjustwell to that? Was that

Matt (37:19):
Apparently, I never really thought about it much because
it's just sort of the way itwas. Okay. It's like you're
gonna move. And I under I hearthe same thing out of, PKs.
Mhmm.

T.J. (37:30):
That Preacher kids.

Matt (37:31):
Preacher's kids. That, you know, their dad's gonna move.
So, you know, don't get too usedto where you're living. I think
that does something to youpsychologically. I have very few
friends that I've maintainedfrom much.
Although, I have a few.

T.J. (37:49):
Mhmm.

Matt (37:50):
But people are a lot easier to somehow to give up
that way. It's like you move on,you never see them again, and
you kinda really don't worryabout it

T.J. (38:02):
Yeah.

Matt (38:02):
Because it happens, you know, over and over. Think that
cycle is probably damaging, butI didn't know I didn't think
about it at the time. I leastliked leaving Fargo, North
Dakota. I really enjoyed Fargo.It's a great place.

(38:25):
We moved there or moved fromthere to Charleston, South
Carolina, and Charleston, SouthCarolina sucked. Well, at the
time, the at the time, NorthDakota had one of the highest
rated school systems in thecountry. And I Fargo North High

(38:45):
School was, like, the 2ndhighest rated school in North
Dakota. So in, like, one of thebest school systems, you're in
one of the best schools. I movedto Charleston, South Carolina,
which was one of the worstschool systems in the country.
And the contrast between the twowas it's like night and day. It
was like, where the heck have wegone? So after a fairly short

(39:10):
period of time or my parents hadactually discussed it and
decided that they didn't wannamove me again. So they were
gonna stay there until Igraduated from high school. And
my dad just happened to ask.
He said, you know, would youcare? Would you be upset if we
move from here? He's like, no.No. Please get me out of this
place.
I don't care where we go. Sorry,Charleston. Charleston was a

(39:33):
great place to visit.

T.J. (39:34):
Mhmm. Wasn't great to live in for you.

Matt (39:37):
It wasn't great to live in for me. That's exactly right.
Best thing about Charleston wasthere was an Arthur Treacher's
Fish and Chips close to ourhouse, and I really like that.
But otherwise, not so great.

T.J. (39:52):
Where was your faith or did you have any faith in these
growing up years in differentparts of the country?

Matt (40:01):
We were fairly consistent. We were everyone people usually
think I'm gonna be Church ofEngland. It was not. We were
Congregationalists. Mygrandmother on my dad's side was
one of the stalwarts in theChurch of England church in
Leland, Lancashire.

(40:22):
So, you know, there there was nonot going to church. You know,
every Sunday, I go to church,wear my little my little shirt
and tie and go to Sunday school.We, like, marched in a church
marched in church parades and itwas it's it's different.

T.J. (40:44):
Yeah. It's hard.

Matt (40:45):
It's hard. It's not America. Yeah. So when we came
to the United States, we foundthe a congregational church,
Plymouth Congregational Churchin Aberdeen, South Dakota. It's
a UCC congregation.

(41:06):
We went to that church. I I wentto that church for years, and
I've met some some really,really good people in it. The
friends that I still have fromthat time period were people who
were in that church. We went toNorth Dakota. I I don't remember
what we did in Wisconsin.
I have no memory of going tochurch in Wisconsin, which is

(41:28):
weird because we were verychurch going. But then I was 7,
so Yeah.

T.J. (41:34):
And you lost your accent.

Matt (41:35):
And I lost my accent and learned to swim and got my first
action figure all all while inWisconsin. Then we went to North
Dakota, and again,Congregational Church. When we
moved from there to SouthCarolina, we visited around.

(41:56):
There were no congregationalchurches in South Carolina. Been
there during the AmericanRevolution, the
Congregationalists attended tobe Tories, and they'd run them
all out of South Carolina afterthe American Revolution.
So that was kind of odd. Andthen the Kentucky, and again,
sort of shopped around churches.Again, there was no UCC

(42:22):
congregational church there. Wevisited churches of Christ, but
they were not the kind of churchof Christ that we were used for.

T.J. (42:31):
I bet not.

Matt (42:31):
Don't but and it's odd because that's Glasgow,
Kentucky, when we lived there,is the first place I ever became
aware of the CumberlandPresbyterian Church. It's not
because of anything to do withtheir services. They were on top
of a great hill to sled. So ifthere was any snow, that's where

(42:52):
you went to go sledding was bythe Cumberland Presbyterian
Church.

T.J. (42:55):
That was your first introduction.

Matt (42:57):
To the we used to park in the CP church parking lot to go
sledding. Yeah. And I knewpeople in, high school who went
to the Cumberland PresbyterianChurch. Have friends now who are
still in that church.

T.J. (43:12):
So you used the church for pleasure, enjoyment during the
winter months there in Kentucky.

Matt (43:20):
Yep. Never went to a service there, though.

T.J. (43:24):
That's great. So even in your teenage years, your your
mother and father dragged you toworship services?

Matt (43:33):
I wasn't really dragged.

T.J. (43:35):
Okay.

Matt (43:36):
I mean, I was not unwilling to go to church at
that time. And here okay. I'lltell you why. And and this is
this is ridiculous, but it wasthe thing that attracted me
about going to going to tochurch was Sunday school. The

(43:56):
church we went to was usingDavid c Cook curriculum.

T.J. (44:00):
Alright.

Matt (44:01):
And David c Cook it's, you know, it's not just highbrow
curriculum, but, you know, it'sit's solid, and you're not gonna
get anything outrageous one wayor the other in in Davidson Cook
curriculum. But between, oh,about 2nd grade and 6th grade,
the curriculum piece, or one ofthe curriculum pieces for

(44:23):
children was a comic book. Sowe're gonna go to church on
Sundays and I got a comic book.Well, okay, it was typically a
Bible story comic, or they alsohad a character, probably more
than you want to know, calledTullus, who was a Christian boy

(44:44):
in Roman times. And Tullus hadsome pretty interesting
adventures.
It's all kind of a a Ben Hurkinda thing going on.

T.J. (44:54):
Okay. Alright.

Matt (44:55):
And so each Sunday, I got one of my I got a comic, and
that was great. Absolutely lovedthat.

T.J. (45:02):
Were they color strips, or or was it just black and white?

Matt (45:07):
No. They're color. They were color.

T.J. (45:08):
Alright.

Matt (45:09):
David c Cook still publishes it.

T.J. (45:11):
I imagine you have a vast collection.

Matt (45:14):
I don't have a vast collection, but I have a
collection. They you know,Richard McGrill, who used to be
the executive of the Board ofStewardship, says that's how he
passed Old Testament inseminary, was from David c
Cook's Bible Comics.

T.J. (45:35):
Interesting.

Matt (45:36):
And now we just put that out there for the whole world to
know.

T.J. (45:43):
So instead of being, like, repulsed or dragged to, worship
service, You actually lookforward to it. But how about
your when did you feel that yourfaith was deepening in terms of
a relationship, with God whereit was just be it was more than

(46:06):
just showing up for the comicbooks or showing up for the
girls, or showing up for themeals, or all the

Matt (46:12):
different incentives. All the reasons you go to church
that have anything to do withgoing to church.

T.J. (46:16):
Yeah. All the different reasons and incentives that we
go.

Matt (46:20):
Somewhere around, let's say, sophomore year of high
school, my best friend and I, atthe time, decided we were gonna
read the Bible. It's just one ofthose things like, have you ever
read this? No. Have you everread it? No.
So Scott Breivold and I, andwe're still friends today, Scott

(46:42):
Brivaled and I decided we weregonna read the Bible, and we
did. Okay. So, it's like, youknow, 2 15 year olds having a an
unguided Bible discussion.

T.J. (46:56):
Okay. So was this like a challenge? Or would you read
sections and then converse onit?

Matt (47:02):
It it wasn't a stated challenge, but it was kind of a
challenge because we would likeit's like, well, what'd you
read? And and it's like, oh, Iread up through, you know, 2nd
Samuel. And I said, oh, well,now now one of us is behind. You

(47:24):
gotta catch up. Right.

T.J. (47:25):
And

Matt (47:25):
you can't just catch up, then you gotta read, you know,
some more. So so it wasn't achallenge, except we did, like,
kinda race each other. As and wetalked about stuff that was in
the Bible. And we talked aboutprobably the things that caught
the attention of teenage boys.Right.

(47:46):
Which wasn't necessarily the keytheological point at on
anything. It's just like, man,can you believe that's in there?
And there seemed to be quite afew things like that. Can you
believe that's in there? So wewe read through it.
We we discussed it. And and, Iguess, at about the time we went

(48:14):
to Kentucky and church shoppedand didn't really find anywhere
to go, I just kinda gave up onit. And I guess I decided that I
wasn't sure God was active inthe world anymore. I said, I
didn't know the words for it. Ididn't know the what to describe

(48:36):
at the time.
I guess I was a deist and didn'tknow that I was a deist. And
stayed that way through college,and into into graduate school.
And it was actually one of myroommates that shook me out of

(48:57):
the whole thing, John Hudson,who one of my roommates. And and
John's a Christian. He's we'restill friends today.
Lives in Nashville. See himevery now and then, always by
accident. But John made astatement that I thought was

(49:18):
profound. It was profound forour circle of friends at the
time then. And basically, whathe said was, like, you can
believe in the Loch Ness Monsterand UFOs and Bigfoot, but why is
Jesus such a big deal for you?

(49:38):
Yeah. Why is he? But thatconversation that we had
probably when we were both,like, 22 started me thinking
more on an adult level aboutreligion, about the Bible, about
Jesus, the church, the whole thewhole everything. But then it

(50:01):
wasn't until because I married,you know, Susan Knight, and
marrying Susan Knight meant youwould be a Cumberland
Presbyterian. It wasn'toptional.

T.J. (50:21):
Give, just some brief background on Susan and her
connection to the CP church andand, of course, how the 2 of you
met.

Matt (50:34):
Alright. First, we'll start with the way we met, which
is which is relatively easy. Wemet when I was in graduate
school. We probably had actuallyencountered each other before I
was in graduate school. Mhmm.
But we really met when I was ingraduate school, because my
graduate advisor, who was doctorLowell Harrison at Western

(50:54):
Kentucky University, while I wasworking on a master's degree in
his excuse me, a master's degreein history. Doctor Harrison said
that in order to get throughgraduate school, you really
needed to make good friends withthe interlibrary loan librarian.
And Susan was the interlibraryloan librarian.

T.J. (51:17):
Now this was a blanket statement to everybody.

Matt (51:20):
Yes. This was through a class.

T.J. (51:21):
Okay.

Matt (51:22):
Yeah. I can't remember what the name of the class was.
Something about it was basicallyan an introduction to doing
serious research. And he said,you need to make good friends
with the interlibrary loanlibrarian. So I made good
friends with the interlibraryloan librarian.

T.J. (51:40):
Apparently, you did. So how did the 2 of you meet? Was
it over a book? Was it

Matt (51:45):
I went went into her office and asked her to find
something for me, and she did.

T.J. (51:50):
Alright.

Matt (51:51):
She's been doing that now our entire married life, and
she's been finding me things. Sohere's some ridiculous citation
to a journal that was publishedin 18/62. Can you find that? And
then she does, which I I thinkit's an incredible talent. And
it served me well in grad schoolbecause I had several times when

(52:13):
a professor said, how in theworld did you ever find a copy
of that?
It's like, I made really goodfriends with the interlibrary
loan librarian.

T.J. (52:22):
Was it love at first sight?

Matt (52:24):
It was friendship at first sight. We had musical interests
involved. Susan's background wasin before she became a librarian
and started collecting librarydegrees, she, she'd been a music
major. She was very into music.Mhmm.
And not just all not just likeshe was particularly into church

(52:45):
music, but not only churchmusic. So we had like the
Beatles and Bruce Springsteen incommon. So, I guess when we
started really, really we kindafell into dating, I guess. And,
like, started going, hey. Do youwanna go see Bob Dylan?

(53:05):
And I go, yeah. So we go to BobDylan. Was that a date? Well, I
guess it was. I didn'tnecessarily know it at the time.
But so over a period of becausewe had known each other I guess,
we'd known each other for atleast 6 years before we got
married.

T.J. (53:25):
Okay. So you shared common interests.

Matt (53:28):
We shared common interests. And I don't know. The
common interests are music andbibliography, which are not
people's usual common interests,but it works for us.

T.J. (53:39):
How long have the 2 of you been married?

Matt (53:44):
Carrie 300 years Carrie? Since we get married. We got
married in 1989. So we've beenmarried 35 years.

T.J. (53:53):
Alright. Congratulations. Or you were gonna tell me the
connection of Susan Knight.

Matt (54:01):
Oh, Susan to to the Cumberland Presbyterian Church.
Yeah. Well, I first knew her.

T.J. (54:07):
Yeah. What did you marry into?

Matt (54:09):
When we first knew her, I knew she was very involved in
the Cumberland PresbyterianChurch in Bowling Green.

T.J. (54:15):
The church on the hill with a good sled ramp.

Matt (54:17):
No. This is that was Glasgow. Church in Bowling Green
is the church that puts on thebodacious Christmas light show.

T.J. (54:25):
Okay.

Matt (54:26):
And I knew of that church because of the Christmas light
show, although I'd never setfoot inside it.

T.J. (54:33):
So arch Cumberland Presbyterian churches gather
reputations for not just beingchurches, but also places of
enjoyment, whether it'sChristmas

Matt (54:43):
lights I suppose

T.J. (54:44):
so. Sledding ramps.

Matt (54:46):
See, by that time though, by the time that Susan and I
were involved, I had been to aCumberland Presbyterian church
because another friend of minewas a Cumberland Presbyterian.
Mhmm. Jim Woosley, a CumberlandPresbyterian out of the Caney
Fork Cumberland PresbyterianChurch, who is a, you know, a

(55:07):
relative of by marriage ofLouisa Weasley. I'd been to his
church and we had, for an eventwe put on in college, we went
and borrowed the tables from thechurch, where his dad was an
elder. So, okay, I knew a littlebit more about the Cumberland
Presbyterian Church by thattime.

(55:30):
Susan was very involved inBowling Green. I didn't realize
to what degree, but as we becamemore involved, you know, it
turned out her dad, JamesKnight, was the executive
presbyter or I'm sorry, thesynodic executive of Kentucky
Senate.

T.J. (55:48):
Mhmm.

Matt (55:49):
And this is just before the middle judicatory
realignment Yeah. When KentuckySynod went away.

T.J. (55:56):
88, 89.

Matt (55:58):
Yeah. A little before that. Mhmm. So so there was
that. I went to the BowlingGreen Church.
Cordell Smith was a pastor atBowling Green. Bowling Green
was, from my background in acongregational church, Bowling

(56:18):
Green was I kind of fit rightin. Bowling Green CP fit right
in with my church experience. Itwasn't any of the crazy stuff
I'd experienced. It was sort ofwhat I thought of as normal
church.

T.J. (56:30):
In terms of worship?

Matt (56:31):
In terms of worship. Yes. Yeah. It was it was normal
church. Yeah.
And it was a very welcomingchurch. Had I not been with
Susan, I don't know how if itwould have been as welcoming. I
kinda think it would have. But,you know, it was an excellent
play place to land. So her dadwas a Cumberland Presbyterian

(56:55):
minister, and her brother was aCumberland Presbyterian
minister.
And her mom was the or thedaughter of a Cumberland
Presbyterian minister. And heruncles at least how many of
them? Several of her uncles wereCumberland Presbyterian

(57:15):
ministers. And

T.J. (57:18):
If you were with Susan

Matt (57:19):
cousins were Cumberland Presbyterian ministers.

T.J. (57:21):
If you were with Susan, you were attending and expected
to be active in a CumberlandPresbyterian congregation
somewhere

Matt (57:31):
Absolutely. Or

T.J. (57:33):
you weren't gonna make the

Matt (57:33):
cut. Exactly. And this became apparent very quickly.

T.J. (57:37):
Immediately. Yeah.

Matt (57:39):
That's the requirement.

T.J. (57:41):
I can hear the conversation now. I'll find you
this book, but are you aCumberland Presbyterian? And
you'd be like, no. I've sled onyour hills, and I've gone to
your light shows. And she goes,you will be a Cumberland
Presbyterian.

Matt (57:56):
That's what that that's yep. That's it.

T.J. (58:01):
Let's talk about the the Cumberland Presbyterian Church,
today. Matt, from yourperspective as an editor, as a a
long time member of thedenomination, what are some of
the greatest gifts we offer tothe local communities that we're
attached to and really to theworld as a denomination?

Matt (58:29):
Well, in general, with a couple of exceptions, I've found
the Cumberland Presbyteriandenomination to be extremely
friendly and extremely welcomingand not particularly judgmental,
which I've enjoyed and Iprobably needed at various times

(58:53):
in my life. Also, and this issomething that I've heard people
criticize, and that is that theCumberland Presbyterian Church
is a lot like a family.

T.J. (59:08):
Mhmm.

Matt (59:09):
And, that's true. And I think a lot of that has to do
with the relatively small sizeof the Cumberland Church, the
fact that there's only 1Cumberland Presbyterian College,
and that in the past, a lot ofCumberland Presbyterians have
sent their kids to BethelCollege, now University. And

(59:30):
that we've mixed them, jumbledthem up, mixed them together,
and as you as you would withyoung people together, then
these kids are marrying eachother. And, I mean, and so that
family thing, it's not it's likea family. It is a family.
I know on one occasion, adenominational employee was

(59:53):
saying something about 1 of theelders in one of our churches.
And after a minute or 2, I justturned and said, you know that
Susan's cousin, don't you? Andthe response, well, well, of
course he is.

T.J. (01:00:09):
That sounds like something I would do.

Matt (01:00:13):
So there is that element of it, and I think that's what
has in the past given us our,like, live and let live attitude
is. You get all these people,you're at you're friends. You
went to college together. You'rea circle of friends. And you
might have differences ofopinion on theology or politics

(01:00:34):
or whatever, but that doesn'tovercome the fact that you were
friends in the first place

T.J. (01:00:38):
Mhmm.

Matt (01:00:39):
And that he married your sister or that Right. Yeah. So
that family feel, and Iparticularly enjoy that, and I
think it's something that is a alarge positive in our favor.

T.J. (01:00:55):
Yeah. If you think about it, generally speaking, one of
the human needs is to be part ofa family. You know, to be part
of a larger group, somethingbeyond yourself that you can
connect to. And that would takean interest in you as well as

(01:01:16):
you take an interest in a bodythat is larger than just you as
an individual. And at the sametime, the drawbacks to a family,
and you've kind of alluded tothis, at least from a
denominational perspective, itcan be very incestuous where,
you know, you end up going toschool and you meet, and you've

(01:01:41):
married somebody's cousin orsomebody's dad is a minister and
mother is a minister and, youknow, brother is an elder and so
forth and so on.
It it's just there's potentialto to all just be related from,
you know, like a marriage orbloodline. But but at the same

(01:02:02):
time, for a denomination thatcontinues to strive to to grow,
that's difficult to the familychanges. And so there isn't just
like 1 or 2 or 3 names thatspread out among the church. I'd

(01:02:25):
say that's even more so todaythan maybe 50 years ago or 80
years ago where you just hadthese family names that, were
movers and shakers within thedenomination. So I think it's a
both and.
There's blessings to be kind ofthe family oriented, but those

(01:02:49):
blessings also come with, youknow, warnings not to only be
inwardly and only to care foryour family as well. Yeah. You
can look inwardly and completelyignore the outside world

Matt (01:03:03):
True.

T.J. (01:03:03):
And become very tribalistic. Yeah.

Matt (01:03:07):
And I I don't think we've done that. I think well, we
certainly haven't done thatentirely. There are some
churches that basically are,well, typically rural, but are
just a family church.

T.J. (01:03:24):
Yeah.

Matt (01:03:24):
Where if you visit, they kind of look at you funny and
wonder

T.J. (01:03:28):
Why are you here?

Matt (01:03:29):
Why are you here? What kind of cousin are you? Who are
you related? Who are you relatedto? Nobody.
Well, then why are you here?

T.J. (01:03:35):
And then they see a name like Milanovsky and they
automatically know that you'renot part of the tribe. Outsider.
Yes. I'm chuckling because it'shappened more than once.

Matt (01:03:52):
There are gores in the Cumberland Presbyterian Church
besides me, and I have beenasked on numerous occasions if
I'm related to those gores.Mhmm. And I always have to say
no. I'm sorry. I don't know yourgores.

T.J. (01:04:06):
What are your hopes, aspirations, dreams for this
denomination looking into thefuture?

Matt (01:04:18):
I hope that we can continue to appreciate each
other despite our theologicaland political differences. It
seems to be becoming be becomeit seems to be becoming harder

(01:04:39):
and harder to do. But even giventhat, as I visit Cumberland
Presbyterian churches, thatstrife that we feel on sort of
in the judicatories doesn't seemto exist or at least I haven't

(01:05:03):
seen it reflected in thecongregations. I don't think
anyone's looked at me askance asI visited the Cumberland
Presbyterian Church and wonderedif I'm there for if I have some
sort of agenda, which I don't.If I show up at a church, I'm
there to worship at that church,and that just typically just

(01:05:24):
happened to be the closestCumberland church on that given
Sunday.

T.J. (01:05:28):
You don't have a, press pass that you wear when you walk
into worship?

Matt (01:05:34):
I have a press pass that I wear on occasion when I go to
meetings of judicatories. Andnot so much, because I think
most people know I'm in thepress. I'm the Cumberland
Presbyterian. But I hope itserves to remind people that I'm

(01:05:56):
there as an an unbiasedobserver. Not the only thing if
I show up at a presbytery, onlything I'm really after is I
would like to increase thenumber of subscribers to the
magazine.
That's the extent of, you know,my politicking at your
presbytery. Because if you wouldsubscribe, I'd greatly

(01:06:18):
appreciate it.

T.J. (01:06:19):
There's your agenda then.

Matt (01:06:20):
That's my agenda. Hi. I'm from Memphis. Hand your wallets
in now.

T.J. (01:06:26):
Okay. You've made your agenda public. So it's no longer
here.

Matt (01:06:30):
I don't wanna sell subscriptions. It's like when
you were a kid and selling gritor something. I don't guess
that's something that anyonedoes anymore.

T.J. (01:06:39):
No. The only grit I know is showing, that you have
gumption, and then grits,plural, is something that you
actually eat.

Matt (01:06:49):
Grit used to be a newspaper.

T.J. (01:06:51):
Oh, okay. Yeah. That was the actual name of it?

Matt (01:06:54):
It was called grit. There was often ads in the back of
comic books that you could raiseyou could earn extra money by
selling grit. I think it wasweekly. I'm not sure. I never
never had the urge to sell grit.

T.J. (01:07:06):
See these are the kinds of things that I was alluding to
earlier. You just have these popculture, these little snippets
of history that you patientlygo, okay, well, let me explain
to you who Mary Tyler Moore is.Let me let me tell you about a
newspaper that was called Grit.It's one of the things that

(01:07:28):
fascinates me. I can always walkaway feeling a little bit
smarter.
Although it pushes out, like,what I think more important
information in my head with thethe trivia that you were able to
talk about.

Matt (01:07:38):
Imagine what it's keeping out of my head? You mean how
much what I might accomplish ifall that crap, you know, if I
didn't know Charo had been onLove Boat 6 times? I mean, if
that stuff wasn't in there. Iknow.

T.J. (01:07:53):
You could have the, you know, some great engineering
feat that was pushed out at theage of 23.

Matt (01:08:00):
Gone.

T.J. (01:08:01):
That is gone. Well, speaking of tidbits of
information, you are a historianand have relished in in all
types of different histories,including the Cumberland
Presbyterian history. So forfun, what is some little tidbit
of information that you'vediscovered about the church that

(01:08:22):
amused you, that, humored you,that, is unique?

Matt (01:08:28):
Oh, gosh. All the things that are really fun are
Scandalous? Yeah. Scandalous,horrible. They're, you know, the
machine gun preacher inOklahoma.
I still have to write an articleabout him at some point.

T.J. (01:08:45):
Well, pick pick a couple that just kind of stick out to
you.

Matt (01:08:49):
I was really fascinated when I found out that Roxy Hart,
made well known by the musicalChicago, was a Cumberland
Presbyterian.

T.J. (01:08:59):
Really?

Matt (01:09:00):
Yeah. That was that was fascinating. Although her name
wasn't actually Roxy Hart, butthe character was based on a
Cumberland Presbyterian woman.The when I watched True Grit

T.J. (01:09:19):
the first one

Matt (01:09:20):
the first one with John Wayne, the real one, for, I
don't know, probably the thirdtime, because I'd seen it a
couple times as a kid, probablywas about the 3rd viewing where
I caught the line about being aCumberland Presbyterian and
proud of it, and actuallyknowing what she was talking
about.

T.J. (01:09:39):
So you understood the movie reference.

Matt (01:09:41):
I understood the reference in the movie.

T.J. (01:09:43):
Which is gone in a blink of an eye.

Matt (01:09:44):
It is gone in the blink of an eye. And they didn't see fit
to put it in the in the remake.Although the remake is much
truer to the book.

T.J. (01:09:54):
Except for that part.

Matt (01:09:55):
Except for that part.

T.J. (01:09:56):
Because the Cumberland Presbyterian reference is in the
book. It's in the novel. Right?

Matt (01:10:00):
It's in the oh, yes. It's in the novel. It's clear in the
novel that, she is a CumberlandPresbyterian girl from, Gum
Springs, Arkansas, which makesthat book a lot cooler if you're
CP and then you know Right.Yeah. That, you know, they're

(01:10:23):
talking about Yale County,Arkansas.
They're talking about realchurches and not too unreal
people.

T.J. (01:10:34):
Well, it would be a mistake on my part if I didn't
ask you about, collecting stuff.You are a, you have quite an eye
and an ear for collecting items,memorabilia from every genre,

(01:10:54):
every aspect of that issomething that is tangible and
can be displayed or enjoyed insome form or fashion, from comic
books, to music, to just somuch. So I'm gonna ask you
probably the most difficultquestion of the day is, what is

(01:11:18):
your favorite thing to collectthat brings you the most joy
when you find it on the shelf,find it on a display?

Matt (01:11:33):
See that that's just that's an impossible question to
answer. It's like asking whichone of your kids is your
favorite.

T.J. (01:11:41):
Right. Because you're

Matt (01:11:42):
not supposed to have one.

T.J. (01:11:43):
I've given you these softball questions on your face.

Matt (01:11:46):
I appreciate that too.

T.J. (01:11:48):
And then but I stumped you with

Matt (01:11:50):
With what do you what's the most fun? And that the
answer to that is, like, dependson my frame of mind at any given
moment. Because it it's I reallydon't know how to describe it.
It's for want of a better term,let's call it object acquisition
syndrome.

T.J. (01:12:10):
Is it a real thing? Are you making that up?

Matt (01:12:12):
It might be.

T.J. (01:12:13):
It is now?

Matt (01:12:13):
It might be, but I I don't know that it is. But it'll be a
reference to something, orsomething in passing, or
something that you see out of inthe background in a frame on a
television program or something,and you start I mean, the way I
work anyway, you start thinking,I wonder if those are out there.

T.J. (01:12:37):
I

Matt (01:12:38):
wonder if I could find one of those. And then it's sort of
not exactly an obsession, butbecome driven to a degree to
find that object. I'll give youan example.

T.J. (01:12:55):
Alright.

Matt (01:12:55):
Something that I really, that intrigued me, that I really
wanted for years years years,and that is, there was a 19
forties comic strip called theSpirit. The Spirit was an
adventure hero. He appeared inthe Sunday comics and a lot of
American newspapers for yearsyears years. Well in one of the

(01:13:21):
stories of the spirit, there's asong. It's called, Every Little
Bug's Got His Baby TO Hug.
And, okay, that that's fine. Andthen I found out that the sheet
music to that song from thecomic strip had been published

(01:13:45):
back in the forties. Alright.Well that's intriguing, and it's
not something you can easilyfind. So for years after that,
going into used bookstores orantique malls, antique stores,
places that had old sheet music.

(01:14:05):
I would always flip through thesheet music hoping to find this
really obscure sheet music forevery little bug's got his baby
to hug. And then finally, afterlooking for it for probably 40
years, a couple of years ago atan antique mall in
Goodlettsville, I found a copyof

T.J. (01:14:27):
it. Wow.

Matt (01:14:28):
And there was a a moment of elation. Didn't doesn't last
terribly long, but, like, wow, Ifound it. Score. And now that's
something that my daughter isgonna have to deal with when
something happens to me, and shewon't have any idea.

T.J. (01:14:49):
And to give those who are listening perspective, Matt has,
in his office, collectiblescovering the spectrum from
science fiction to music tomovies to military memorabilia,
sports.

Matt (01:15:09):
Cumberlandia.

T.J. (01:15:10):
And and absolutely, Cumberland. And, house
beautifully decorated, withsimilar stuff. And, recently
opened up a, antique booth tosell, but also I think as is

(01:15:31):
your friend, sort of displaysome of your collective stuff.

Matt (01:15:36):
To a degree. Yeah. I think, yeah, that's right.

T.J. (01:15:38):
I've never asked you this before, but how do you you know,
you're you're always on a huntbecause, you know, I'd bump into
you throughout the week, andyou'd be like, oh, did you know
that I found this? Or look whatI found. And so what how do you
do that? I mean, do you havewhat are you looking for when

(01:15:59):
you are in your travels and whenyou're going shopping and things
like that? Is it veryintentional?
Or is it do you just have a oris there a mental catalog of,
like, a wish list of

Matt (01:16:12):
I I think that's it. I think there is kind of a mental
catalog. And I've been doingthis long enough now that I
mean, I started reallycollecting things in, you know,
when I was about 8 years old. Solike 1970, I've started I
started accumulating things. Anda lot of the things that I've

(01:16:34):
wanted, I've got.
It's like the comic book. Therearen't very many comic books
that I'm actually looking foranymore. I mean, there's plenty
I'll take if they come along,but I'm not seeking out very
many specific things. And it'ssort of a I don't know, because
I collect so much stuff fromstamps and coins and postcards,

(01:16:57):
military, all kinds of things, Ican go into a antique mall, and
it's hard not to find somethingthat I collect. Does happen
occasionally, though.
I can't find anything at all.But I kind of have a heightened
awareness of collectibles, and Ialso will buy things that are

(01:17:21):
for resale. Because now forsince 1998, I've been selling
collectibles online, and I'vesold all kinds of things online.
And, like, one of the best oneof the best finds I had was at a
yard sale not more than 200yards from where we're sitting
right now. They had a lot ofrecords.

(01:17:42):
They were in nice shape. Theywere a quarter a piece, which,
you know, that's great to startwith. But what I found was the
Barbara Eden Sings. And BarbaraEden, if you're aware, is Genie,
and I dream of Genie. One sideof the album has a picture well,

(01:18:04):
the sleeve that is, has apicture of Barbara Eden as
Jeanie in the Jeanie costume.
And on the other side, it's justnormal normal people clothes.
And I really had not that muchinterest in that as an album.

T.J. (01:18:19):
Mhmm.

Matt (01:18:20):
I don't I'm sure it was, like, easy listening, and I
really just didn't care. But itwas a quarter and it was in
beautiful condition, and Ibought it for my quarter and
sold it on eBay to a guy inJapan for a $125. And he then
paid, like, half that much againin shipping to get it to Japan.

T.J. (01:18:41):
Wow.

Matt (01:18:43):
That's fun. It's just kinda fun to do that. Now for
each thing that I've done likethat, I've done something else
that was stupid, where it'slike, hey. Oh, I I I bought some
a roll of, Indianapolis StreetRailway tokens.

T.J. (01:19:03):
Okay.

Matt (01:19:03):
Well, doesn't that sound like it ought to be something
that's kinda cool?

T.J. (01:19:07):
Yeah. I guess so.

Matt (01:19:07):
Well, I mean, if Yeah. Okay. Because it's a that's
exonemia, by the way. That's thecollecting of things that look
like coins but aren't reallycoins.

T.J. (01:19:16):
Like a token.

Matt (01:19:17):
Like a token. So I bought a roll of the things, and I
can't well, I probably shouldn'teven say what I paid for it. But
I thought it was a really gooddeal until I realized and found
out later that the owners of theIndianapolis Street Railway had,
after they quit using tokens,had sold them all. So there are

(01:19:38):
probably millions of thosetokens out there. They have very
little value whatsoever.
Aw. So I was delighted to findmy role, only to discover, yeah,
I probably overpaid for that byabout 10 times what it was
worth.

T.J. (01:19:53):
I'm glad you said this earlier. I was gonna give kind
of a disclaimer, at least anexplanation that your
collectibles, you kinda have 2pairs of eyes. One is these are
things that Matt likes, enjoys,but you're also looking from a
resale. Now you where you haveno emotional attachment
whatsoever, except that maybeyou could flip it, and then the

(01:20:18):
proceeds from that or the the,profit that you made just helps
you to continue to shop forsomething else.

Matt (01:20:25):
Exactly. And that's my goal is to have what I sell,
fund what I buy. And I thinkanother thing is

T.J. (01:20:30):
I I just didn't want listeners to think that, you
know, Matt Gore is this hoarderand you can't open the front
door of the house, kind of

Matt (01:20:37):
Well, that's almost true. But

T.J. (01:20:38):
no. No. No. No.

Matt (01:20:40):
That would never go on in Susan Knight Gore's household.
But something else that's funabout it, it's an awful lot of
fun to find something that youif you have a friend who you
know will really appreciate anobject, and you could find it
for him.

T.J. (01:20:55):
Yes.

Matt (01:20:55):
Yeah. That that gives me a big jolly. And then you doesn't
have it's not about makinganything or getting any
compensation. It's just like, Iknow my friend is really gonna
like this.

T.J. (01:21:08):
Yes. And you're able to find it, whatever it is, usually
not for the asking, like, retailprice, as in you know, full
price, I should say. You know,it'd be like, hey, I know you
were willing to spend $28, but Ifound this for 11.

Matt (01:21:28):
Yep. Yeah. And that's fun.

T.J. (01:21:32):
Yeah. Yeah. Matt, what books would you recommend to
listeners of Cumberland Roadthat, you think would give him a
pretty good idea of who areCumberland Presbyterians, what
they believe, and a little bitabout the history. Just to if

(01:21:56):
you were an outsider looking inand going, man, I run across
this podcast, and they keeptalking about this church, and
I've seen it or I know a littlebit about it. I know nothing
about it.
What would be some good introsto to and and for those who have
been Cumberland all their life,what are what are some books
that, you would recommend?

Matt (01:22:16):
Well, I'm gonna put my college professor hat on.

T.J. (01:22:19):
Okay.

Matt (01:22:22):
I think, like, about the first five chapters of my book
are excellent for that. Andthat's, you know, the history of
the Cumberland PresbyterianChurch in Kentucky to 1988. And
why I say that's sort ofholistic is because all of our
adjudicatories were based out ofKentucky in the first period of
our founding. So it deals a lotwith that. I like Mac McDonald's

(01:22:48):
history of the CumberlandPresbyterian Church is, I think,
a lot of fun to read.
Although you have to take itwith a grain of salt, and it's a
good idea to check to see if thestories BW McDonald is telling
you are actually true or notMhmm. Or completely true. Oh,

(01:23:10):
that is great for that. There'sa book by Portis. It's actually
a collection of novellas.
And one of the stories in thebook is a conversation on the

(01:23:31):
porch between 3 ministers. Andone of the ministers is the
Cumberland Presbyterianminister.

T.J. (01:23:38):
Interesting.

Matt (01:23:41):
I'm struggling to remember what Portis' first name is right
now, and it's it's escaped me.It's He is the man who wrote
True Grit, and he was aCumberland Presbyterian.

T.J. (01:23:51):
Okay.

Matt (01:23:52):
And and that's an excellent book. It's been out of
print since, like, 5 minutesafter it was published. But if
you could find a copy of it,then I I'm sorry. I can't even
tell you what the title of thebook is.

T.J. (01:24:08):
Charles Portis.

Matt (01:24:09):
Yeah. Thank you very much. Charles Portis. He just died
within the last few years. Andthat's when it was finally
revealed that he actually wasCumberland Presbyterian.

T.J. (01:24:18):
It had to be revealed after his death?

Matt (01:24:20):
Well, I don't know why. But, you know, in this day I

T.J. (01:24:23):
say that comically, but

Matt (01:24:24):
okay. In this in our these days of the Internet, he was a
guy who was, I guess, atraditional recluse. The
importance didn't talk topeople. He didn't do interviews.
When he was a journalist, thepaper he worked for had to
insist that he get a telephonebecause he didn't wanna have a

(01:24:48):
telephone.

T.J. (01:24:49):
How did they communicate? Telegram?

Matt (01:24:51):
Well, that was the thing. I had to insist that he got a
telephone. So he he was kind ofguarded. But then when when he
when he passed and there was alittle information came out in
his various obituaries, and it'slike, well, yeah. This guy, he
was the, I think I think hisgrandfather was a Cumberland
Presbyterian minister.

(01:25:12):
And of course, his book TrueGrits, one of the classics of
modern American literature. Oh,the 5th Chinese daughter is also
if you have any interest at allin missions, the history of

(01:25:32):
missions, Chinese immigration,Chinese culture in general, book
by Jade Snow Wong. And in it, itretell tells her faith story,
and that she was that she wasbrought to Christ by a
missionary. Never mentioning whothe missionary is, but the
missionary was Gaem Saen Qua,who is, you know, should be well

(01:25:55):
known to all CumberlandPresbyterians.

T.J. (01:26:04):
That's a pretty good list. That keeps somebody busy for a
little while. So I keep tryingto

Matt (01:26:09):
think of how to recommend to people call Cumberland
Presbyterians, which is is drierthan it needs to be. It's an
excellent book, but it it's allit's not as easy to read as
McDonald. I've in my opinion,anyway.

T.J. (01:26:26):
Yeah. Don't jump from McDonald to the Campbell book.
Yeah. Because one is colorful,you know, folksy on purpose.

Matt (01:26:37):
Yes.

T.J. (01:26:38):
And then the other one is almost academic.

Matt (01:26:40):
The other one is just the facts, ma'am.

T.J. (01:26:42):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. I have another fun question for
you.
Let's, let's take a coupleminutes. You and I have never
done this before. Let's walkthrough all the different jobs
you've had. Because you've hadsome interesting ones. Like one
time you you worked forRadioShack for a while.
I did. But that was on thereason I bring that one up, that

(01:27:03):
is right as the home computer isbecoming accessible to to the
nation and to the world. So thetiming that you worked for
RadioShack was kind of like thiswell, the pinnacle of RadioShack
and also the pinnacle of thehome computer.

Matt (01:27:17):
Yeah. That would be like 1978 to 1980, and they just had
introduced the TRS 80 computer.And that's how I got the job
working at RadioShack, was bygoing into RadioShack in
Glasgow, Kentucky after schooland learning how their TRS 80

(01:27:38):
computer worked to the pointwhere I knew as well as anybody
who worked there how thecomputer worked.

T.J. (01:27:45):
That's how you got the job.

Matt (01:27:46):
And the managers said, one day I was in there showing a
customer all the things thatthis computer could do. And
after I think they bought 1. Andbut after the customer left, the
manager said, do you want a job?So I worked there for a couple
of years. And it's the same timeI was working at McDonald's.

(01:28:08):
Wow. So there's a, yeah, it'skind of diverse. And I work for
McDonald's in Glasgow as well.

T.J. (01:28:16):
Where else have you worked? What about teenage
years?

Matt (01:28:19):
Teen oh, well, those were teenage years.

T.J. (01:28:20):
Okay.

Matt (01:28:21):
But, before that well, first thing I ever did, I had a
paper route, which kind of fitsin with

T.J. (01:28:29):
Yeah.

Matt (01:28:30):
My other stuff. Then I was given another one of those
strange backhanded jobs. When Iwas underage, I worked for the
FM News Company in Fargo, NorthDakota. FM stood for Fargo
Moorhead. Immediately across theRed River from Fargo is

(01:28:52):
Moorhead, Minnesota.
So Fargo FM News, FargoMoorhead. They were an
independent news distributor inin that area. And, well, I got
the job there by going in onWednesdays, which were new comic
book day. And one of the store'semployees asked me if I wanted

(01:29:15):
to help put out the comic books.So, you know, you know, you help
me put these out, I'll give yousome.
How

T.J. (01:29:24):
old how old were you?

Matt (01:29:26):
14.

T.J. (01:29:27):
Okay. So Oh, wow. Put out a few comics, get a free comic.

Matt (01:29:32):
Yeah. I can't remember how the comics were 20¢ or a quarter
then. So, you know, for a coupleof bucks, that's that's 10 comic
books or 8 comic books. So I Istarted doing that, going in on
Wednesdays, helping put out thecomics, got paid in comics. They

(01:29:52):
that particular store's managerdecided that I was pretty good
at that, or he was reallydisinterested in doing that.
And I moved on from putting outthe new comics to putting out
the new magazines completely.And I was getting paid out of
the cash drawer, which wasgreat. And then one day, on one

(01:30:15):
Wednesday, I went, and the ownerof the company's son was the
person who was at the desk. Hewas the clerk in the store that
day. And I went I'm thinking tomyself, oh, man.
I'm not getting anything forthis. And I'm I'm not, you know,
I'm not gonna be able to do thistoday. And I walked in and he

(01:30:37):
says, hey, Aren't you the guywho puts out all the new
magazines? Uh-huh. He's, well,what do they usually pay you for
that?
So I told him, well, that's notenough. Wow. Okay. So it was
still, you know, it was still inNorth Dakota at that time. You
supposedly, unless it was afamily business, you were
supposed to be 16 before youcould work.

(01:30:59):
So I I got the fun of puttingout all the new magazines and
comics and books and gotactually got paid for it. It was
awesome.

T.J. (01:31:09):
Something tangible about the printed paper.

Matt (01:31:13):
Yes. Ink Love it.

T.J. (01:31:15):
Photos, drawings, letters, words, numbers. And putting them
all together or even mixing themup. They can say many different
things to different people. It'spretty neat.

Matt (01:31:30):
And and that was awesome and completely, you know, off
the books, they gave me a plaquewhen I left.

T.J. (01:31:38):
My goodness.

Matt (01:31:39):
The plaque said to Matthew Gore, the favorite underground
employee of the FM News Company.

T.J. (01:31:48):
I like that. Sounds nefarious.

Matt (01:31:50):
Yeah. Just just slightly nefarious.

T.J. (01:31:53):
Right. Right.

Matt (01:31:55):
In fact, while doing my little my book gig, we got
snowed in in that shopping mall.Had to spend the night there
once. It was it was on a I thinkit was on a Saturday. Mhmm. And
about, oh, 1 o'clock, the one ofthe employees from the Hickory
Farm store came to us and said,have you had a customer in a

(01:32:17):
while?
I was like, no. Well, I wanna sowe walked to the door of the
mall and looked outside. Therewas like 3 feet of snow drifted
up against it. We couldn't openthe doors. We we were stuck in
the mall.

T.J. (01:32:29):
Oh, wow. But you had electricity?

Matt (01:32:31):
I had electricity.

T.J. (01:32:32):
Okay. So you had Hickory Farms Cheese and Sausages. Yes.

Matt (01:32:36):
There was no food court in that mall, which was a pity.

T.J. (01:32:39):
Okay. So you weren't gonna go hungry and you had
entertainment.

Matt (01:32:42):
Yeah. And the other end of the mall, one of the anchor
stores was at Woolworths.

T.J. (01:32:49):
Oh, okay.

Matt (01:32:50):
And while Woolworths had had the sense, the Woolworths
people figured out that we weregetting snowed in and sent their
employees home and closed. Buteverybody else, like, the people
on the inside of the mall Right,because

T.J. (01:33:06):
we couldn't see out doors.

Matt (01:33:07):
We couldn't say we had outside doors. We did. So we
were stuck. It's kind of fun,actually. Spending the night in
the mall.

T.J. (01:33:13):
Yeah. I mean, like I said, you had you had food. Yeah. You
had stuff to read. You hadentertainment.

Matt (01:33:18):
Well, it was great.

T.J. (01:33:19):
Was there a music store in the building?

Matt (01:33:20):
There was.

T.J. (01:33:21):
We'll see. You had music?

Matt (01:33:22):
Yep. And electricity. Yeah. There it was kinda fun.
Worked there.
Let's see. Where else did Iwork?

T.J. (01:33:31):
You worked at a bank.

Matt (01:33:32):
I did. I worked for for

T.J. (01:33:34):
a bank.

Matt (01:33:34):
I worked for Citizens Bank in Glasgow, Kentucky, which was
one of the butcher banks. Areyou familiar with the butchers?

T.J. (01:33:41):
You know, you even told me this the other day, but I have
since forgotten. So what's aButcher Bank?

Matt (01:33:46):
CH and Jake Butcher brothers who were big, Tennessee
financial people. They were inthe, oh gosh, I guess seventies.
They were the guys who tried tocorner the silver market, which
apparent which turned out to betoo big for them to manage to do
it. But it was one of theirbanks, Mhmm. And that was

(01:34:13):
another great place to work.
Went in at 4 o'clock in theafternoon and ran the computer
until about 1 o'clock in themorning when it had done all its
processing.

T.J. (01:34:23):
How big were the computers back in that time?

Matt (01:34:26):
It's an IBM System 3, was about half the size of this
office that we're sitting innow. Pretty good sized thing. It
was

T.J. (01:34:37):
Just for that branch.

Matt (01:34:39):
Just well, actually, we did the we did the data for I
don't know how many. I guessthat was the main we were the
main bank and there were 2others

T.J. (01:34:54):
Okay.

Matt (01:34:55):
In the Citizens family. Okay. So we did their processing
too.

T.J. (01:34:59):
Alright. And this is in the seventies, eighties?

Matt (01:35:03):
This would be starting, like, 1980.

T.J. (01:35:05):
Okay. So, I mean, computers were as big as a car.

Matt (01:35:08):
Yeah. The computer was huge. It, backed up its data on,
we called them data packs, butthey were essentially a plastic
container that had 10 floppydisks in it. 10 10 inch floppy
disks. You would slide them intoslots on the on the computer and

(01:35:32):
use those those were ourbackups.
We made a backup of all the dataon the computer every night.
Mhmm. We, you know, appliedchecks to people's accounts by
using optical character readers.

T.J. (01:35:46):
Cutting edge at the time.

Matt (01:35:47):
It was cutting edge. It was great. It was funny because
when they first you know, theywere very proud of that IBM
System 3. It's like and this wasthe bank building on the Square
in downtown Glasgow. It had beenremodeled, but the bank itself,
I think, had been built in,like, the 18 eighties
originally.

(01:36:08):
So this new computer isinstalled in the new addition to
the building, and they put itin, and we're there running
because that's when I got hiredwas when they had this new
computer, and they needed peopleto do it. And they came to
Western Kentucky University whenI was in my 1st year looking for
computer students who would dothis, and I'm sure also with

(01:36:30):
everything, you would do thisand do this relatively cheaply.
Mhmm. But we were still I thinkwe were making something like 5
times minimum wage, which, youknow, when you're when you're
18, 19 years old, that that'sgreat. Mhmm.
So we were in there and runninga thing, and there's a, a

(01:36:50):
thunderstorm is rolling in. Andpreviously, whenever there had
been a thunderstorm, they didn'tstart you had to shut the
computer down completely,disconnect it from power. But
this new system was secure, andthat wasn't supposed to be an
issue. So we were in thererunning running the computer.

(01:37:12):
I've got me and a guy named MikeClay.
And there's this giant clap oflightning and huge thunder, and
it was, like, right on top ofus. And the computer went off,
and we looked over, and there'ssmoke coming out of it. Oh, no.
Which is like, that can't begood.

T.J. (01:37:29):
Mhmm.

Matt (01:37:31):
Well, obviously, that wasn't good. But, you know, IBM
replaced it. And their peoplecame in to try to figure out why
this has happened. They came into replace the thing and got it
all up and running. And again,and a few months later, another
thunderstorm, same result, Blewanother computer.

(01:37:53):
And these things were they werelike $3,000,000 a piece. These
are not cheap computers. Soapparently, but the second time
one of their computers isblowing up, we got the smart
guys.

T.J. (01:38:03):
Mhmm.

Matt (01:38:04):
It's like the top of the class all came in to figure out
why. And it turned out that whenthey had grounded the thing,
they'd found this, like, copperwire or copper cable, like as
thick as your arm, that wasearthed perfectly.

T.J. (01:38:24):
Alright.

Matt (01:38:25):
And that is what they had grounded the computer to, was
that cable, because they got aperfect ground on the thing.
They found it was in the wall.It turned out on that old 18
eighties building, the other endof that was on the going to the
lightning rod on the roof. Sothey grounded the computer to
the lightning rod.

T.J. (01:38:46):
Oh, my goodness.

Matt (01:38:47):
Yeah. Well, they fixed that after the second time they
blew up a $3,000,000 machine.Right. Right.

T.J. (01:38:53):
You also worked you you should be telling these stories.
You also worked at theCumberland Presbyterian Resource
Center.

Matt (01:39:00):
I did.

T.J. (01:39:02):
Oh, for a while.

Matt (01:39:04):
Yeah. Starting in 92. 1992.

T.J. (01:39:09):
If you're looking at me, I I

Matt (01:39:11):
don't know. You were there. No. I was hired. I took a
a temporary job.
I was teaching computer classes.We had moved to Memphis so Susan
could take the job as thedirector of the historical
foundation. And so I wasessentially job hunting, but I
found I had a job teachingcomputer classes.

T.J. (01:39:31):
Mhmm.

Matt (01:39:32):
Teaching people how to use WordPerfect and the basics of a
DOS operating system and andsuch like.

T.J. (01:39:40):
Mhmm.

Matt (01:39:40):
Which was actually kind of fun, but had no insurance. It
was just like, you might teachone class this week and then 4
classes next week. And it wasactually it was pretty decent
money, but the no insurance partwas kind of, you know, kind of
harrowing. And a position cameup at the center. I was working

(01:40:05):
in the, warehouse for CPResources.
So after, you know, well, Iwon't make as much money, but
this comes with insurance. Sothat's better. And there was a
retirement plan, and that'sbetter. So I applied for and got
the job working for CPResources, as, you know, a clerk

(01:40:30):
in in the warehouse. And youhaven't left?
Working with Greg Miller.

T.J. (01:40:35):
And you haven't left since?

Matt (01:40:36):
I have not left since. I went from that to being,
warehouse manager, to beingmanager of CP Resources, and
then the editor of theCumberland Presbyterian.

T.J. (01:40:54):
You graduated?

Matt (01:40:55):
Sort of. Yeah. So the job I took temporarily in the early
nineties turned into a careerworking for the Cumberland
Presbyterian denomination.

T.J. (01:41:07):
Full circle. That childhood dream. Yeah.

Matt (01:41:11):
Yeah. I've and I've said many times, there's really
there's no up from my job here.The the thing that I most would
want to do at the center is

T.J. (01:41:23):
What you're doing.

Matt (01:41:24):
What I'm doing. It's fun.

T.J. (01:41:29):
Matt, I've enjoyed our time. And I've enjoyed hearing
your faith journey. And I didn'tknow the your your background
growing up in terms of faith andthe Congregationalist. And I
didn't know the story of of howyou came to the Cumberland

(01:41:51):
Presbyterian Church. I hadn'theard you tell it.
And, so thank you for giving meyour afternoon and sharing your
faith and taking me on theinteresting journey that we'll
call Matt Gore's life.

Matt (01:42:10):
Thank you, TJ.

T.J. (01:42:13):
Thank you for listening to this episode of Cumberland Road.
I close with an editorial fromthe Cumberland Presbyterian
Magazine dated 18/83. There isnothing that so truly represents
the mind and spirit of a churchto the outside world as its

(01:42:38):
publications. These go wherepreachers and teachers cannot.
Thanks for listening.

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Matt Gore - Publishing, Faith, and the Flair for Collecting

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Matt Gore - Publishing, Faith, and the Flair for Collecting