February 20, 2025 • 37 mins
In this episode, we sit down with Kattie Laur, a podcaster, podcast producer, and a well-known voice in the Canadian podcasting space. Kattie is also the author of Pod the North, a must-read newsletter that explores the Canadian podcast ecosystem, featuring interviews, podcast discoveries, and the latest industry news.
Kattie shares insightful stories, valuable advice, and her passion for podcasting, along with some of the challenges she’s faced along the way. Whether you're a seasoned podcaster or just starting out, this episode is packed with great takeaways.
In This Episode, We Discuss:
🎙 Kattie’s journey into podcasting and what inspired Pod the North
📢 The state of Canadian podcasting and what makes it unique
💡 Advice for new and aspiring podcasters
🎧 Common challenges in podcasting and how to overcome them
Connect with Kattie Laur:
Podcasts mentioned in the episode:
What did you think of today's episode? We want to hear from you!
Thanks for tuning in to Curious Conversations! We hope you enjoyed listening as much as we enjoyed creating it for you. Don't forget to stay connected with us on our website and Instagram for more exciting content. Also, make sure to hit that follow/subscribe button and leave us a rating to help us grow and reach more people like you.
Enjoy another curious conversation for teens by teens!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kattie (00:00):
One of the things that I always encourage hosts to do is
to also remember that, likethey are a part of the
conversation too right, likesomebody falls in love with the
podcast, normally because theylove the hosts and what the
hosts are bringing to the table.
So if a guest says somethingthat you're like I don't know if
I necessarily agree with thatthen you should say that.
Or if you have a follow-upquestion, you should say that.
(00:22):
Or, yeah, just remember, youcan pop in whenever you want.
It's your show and there's norules on podcasting.
Xavier (00:31):
Hi, welcome to Curious Conversations, a podcast for
kids, by kids.
I'm one of your hosts, xavier.
Emma (00:39):
And I'm your other host, emma, and we're so excited to
bring you another season ofinteresting discussions with
people from all walks of life,to learn about their passions
and what inspires them.
Xavier (00:48):
We are still as curious as ever and we hope you will
join us on our journey.
Hi everyone, today we are superexcited to talk with Katie
Lauer.
She's a podcaster, producer andthe creator of Pod the North, a
really cool newsletter allabout the Canadian podcast scene
.
Basically, she knows a lotabout podcasting.
(01:09):
This was such a funconversation because it was the
first time we got to chat withanother podcaster about well
podcasting.
Katie shared some awesomeadvice, told us what she loves
about making podcasts and eventalked about some of the
challenges that come with it.
If you ever thought aboutstarting a podcast or just want
(01:30):
to know what goes on behind themic, this episode is for you, so
let's get into it.
Emma (01:38):
Hi Katie.
Thank you so much for joiningus on the show.
Kattie (01:41):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm very excited to be here.
It's so funny joining a callwith two people at the exact
same time.
What grade are you guys in?
Grade nine, ooh, okay.
Yeah, first year of high schoolhardcore yeah.
Emma (01:58):
So, katie, you've been in the producing podcasting
industry for a while.
You're a podcast producer andthe author of Pod North, a
newsletter for Canadianpodcasters.
So, before we get into all that, do you remember the first
podcast you listened to?
Kattie (02:14):
Oh yeah, I remember it very vividly.
It feels like it wasn't thatlong ago because podcasting
hasn't been that popular forvery long, but I remember I
think I was on a treadmill orlike on an elliptical at the
time and I decided to just hitplay on this podcast called
Reply All and it was this guylooking into, like, who is
(02:37):
behind all of those scammy phonecalls that you get.
So he actually tracked downthis company, this huge company
who is based in India, and hewent to India, found all of
these people who worked for thiscompany and discovered the
scammy people behind all of thisstuff.
It was nuts and that justopened up a whole world of
(03:00):
storytelling and everything youcould do with audio.
It was crazy.
So I remember this very well.
Emma (03:06):
Wow, that's, that's insane .
I wonder how he got that idea.
I mean, obviously people wouldlisten to that.
Kattie (03:12):
Yeah, it was basically just a podcast where a guy was
like how the heck doestechnology work and why are
these things happening?
And then decided, listen, I'm ajournalist, I could probably
figure this all out.
Emma (03:25):
Then did oh yeah, best podcast start with curious
people, so oh yeah, reallyinteresting, definitely, uh.
Xavier (03:32):
So we would like to know a little bit more about pod the
north.
Uh, why did you start it andwhy did you decide to focus on
canadian podcasting?
Kattie (03:41):
oh, I mean, I definitely have an answer for this that
I've talked about a bunch, butI'm starting to question how
much the two of you, a couple ofgrade nines, will care about it
.
But basically I will.
I just worked in podcasting orI was desperate to work in
podcasting for a long time.
I went to I mean by grade 12, Iwas like I definitely want to
(04:02):
work in radio.
I went through all ofuniversity and was like, yeah, I
, I definitely want to work inradio.
I went through all ofuniversity and was like, yeah,
I'm definitely going to work inradio, for sure, this is the
game plan.
I graduated and I did not get ajob and I was like what the heck
?
So I applied for jobs over andover and over again after
graduating, couldn't find any.
Finally did find some, whichwas me making my own work.
(04:25):
I decided to just find someclients who would pay me to make
them podcasts.
And then I was like listen, whyis this so hard?
Why am I a talented producer?
I learned all this stuff fromschool, but nobody's giving me
jobs, nobody's emailing me back.
I don't even know what is goingon here.
So basically, by meeting peoplein Canadian podcasting, I
(04:47):
realized that everybody sort offelt the same way.
Everyone was like I don't knowwhat's going on here and I feel
like my talent isn't being sortof showcased or nobody even
knows I exist.
So that's what brought me toPod the North, which was
basically a mission to connectthe Canadian podcasting
ecosystem and making sure that,like people who are just making
podcasts for fun, like you guys,or people who are doing it on
(05:10):
like a professional level andgetting paid by people, all feel
like they know what's going onaround here and can find each
other as resources and hire eachother and just make it easier
to exist here.
Emma (05:22):
Wow, that's, that's certainly a lot.
I mean that just that's.
You took a kind of a big holein the kind of canadian
podcasters and you kind of tiedus all together, which I think a
lot of us will be thankful for,because it's, it's kind of nice
to know and like learn andrebound ideas off each other,
and that newsletter is just it'sgoing to start a whole
(05:44):
community?
Xavier (05:45):
Yeah, I have a feeling Helps people connect.
Kattie (05:48):
That's the plan, and you're totally right too, emma,
because I started the newsletterthinking like listen, I think
only like a couple of my friendsare going to read this.
It's mostly just me ranting andcomplaining and then all of a
sudden it just exploded and awhole bunch of people really
resonated with it and it's beenaround for about two years and
it's kind of kicked off theground more than I expected it
(06:11):
to.
I got a bunch of speaking gigsfrom it over the last couple of
years.
I did a live event a couple ofyears ago to celebrate the one
year anniversary of it.
Got CBC podcasts involved.
Yeah, it's kind of picked upoff the ground more than I
expected.
So hopefully everything youjust said is going to come to
fruition one day.
Xavier (06:32):
Hopefully.
Kattie (06:33):
I will, for sure.
Emma (06:36):
So it seems like you have a bit of everything when it
comes to podcasts.
You just said you kind ofstarted off just kind of helping
a few people out.
So, through your wholeexperience working in the
podcasting industry said youkind of started off like just
kind of like helping a fewpeople out.
So, like through your wholeexperience working in the
podcasting industry, what hasbeen your, what do you love most
about it and what's yourfavorite thing about it?
Kattie (06:52):
Well, I think, if you can't tell already, I love
talking.
I love talking to people aboutpodcasts.
I love talking on podcasts andalong with that I think I have a
lot of just creativity that Ilike to express in some capacity
.
And podcasting was so funbecause you could just do
whatever you wanted.
There's really no rules inpodcasts.
(07:14):
You might think if you want towork in radio, you have to work
for a big company, but turns outyou can make radio on demand
for anybody to listen to andjust do your own thing, and you
don't have to find a job.
On demand for anybody to listento and just do your own thing
and you don't have to find a job.
It's still hard to get paid inpodcasting, though, so that
takes work.
But yeah, what I love so muchabout it is just like I love
just being a part of thecreative process and also
(07:35):
finding like really importantstories and things that people
are talking about that I thinkare valuable in the world and
helping them grow audiencesaround them.
So that's the work that I donow is around like building
audiences and buildingcommunities.
But yeah, I think I've alwayshad like a bit of a justice
streak in me and I've alwayssought out like good things for
(07:58):
people and when I see thatpeople have important things to
say, then I want to make surethat people hear those things.
I see that people haveimportant things to say, then I
want to make sure that peoplehear those things.
Emma (08:06):
I mean totally.
I think in the next comingyears, podcasts are definitely
going to be on the increase.
They already are, oh yeah.
Especially with radio.
I think podcasts are almostsurpassing it.
It's really important foreveryone to get something to say
, because everyone can learnsomething from someone else
Totally.
Kattie (08:24):
Absolutely Totally.
Xavier (08:27):
And that's amazing, like trying to connect different
people.
Kattie (08:30):
Thanks, it's hard, it's a lot of work.
I'm definitely like tired allthe time.
I will say that, but I can'thelp it.
When you feel like you can'thelp, but do something, it just
happens.
Xavier (08:44):
It always feels better when you can help Totally.
Kattie (08:47):
Yeah.
Xavier (08:48):
That's awesome, obviously, but even just hosting
a podcast, we know that it'snot always easy.
So what's the most challengingthing about working in
podcasting?
Kattie (08:58):
That's such a big question, xavier.
As specifically as a host or in, like making a podcast, what
are you the most curious aboutIn both?
Okay, I think.
Like in hosting a podcast, Ithink it's hard to stay in the
moment and like listen to yourguest while also thinking about
(09:21):
how to like make an interestingconversation and drive a
narrative through theconversation that you're having.
So sometimes you have like aplan of questions that you're
going to ask somebody, but thensomebody kind of goes on another
tangent that might be moreinteresting than the questions
that you've planned, and makingthat judgment call in the moment
(09:41):
is kind of like distracting atthe same time.
So, yeah, that's the toughestpart about hosting a podcast, I
think, is like staying in themoment but also deciding what's
the most interesting and alsosticking to the game plan,
because if you work in thisfield and you have a producer or
a whole team behind you,they've probably spent a lot of
(10:03):
time doing research for you andwriting interview questions for
you, and so you don't want tocompletely abandon everything
that they've prepared.
You got to stay a team playertoo.
So, yeah, those are the hardestparts of hosting.
And then, in terms of producing,let's say.
I mean there's so many differentways to approach this, but
(10:25):
let's talk about it in terms oflike deciding on what sort of
topic to do for a podcastepisode.
I mean, when you start a podcastyou might have millions of
ideas or you might think youhave a really good idea until
you think about all the episodesyou can do and you're like,
wait, I think that's only goodenough for one episode, like, I
don't think we have much morethan this.
(10:45):
So figuring out what themission of your podcast and if
there's enough in there to makea show an interesting show, can
be really challenging and it canbe like a long conversation
with teams that you have.
I don't know, maybe you've hadthis conversation with your mom
already, so I know she's apodcast producer and I'm sure
(11:07):
she's got lots of great ideasfor the show too, and you guys
have different ideas.
So sometimes, like having thatcollaborative team, you have to
figure out all right, like how,when am I going to just step
back and let somebody else'sidea go forward?
Or how hard am I going to pushfor my ideas and when do I know
that something is a compellingpitch?
Lots of things in that there.
Emma (11:31):
Well, yeah, it's certainly a lot of work.
I say, hosting and producingpodcasts, yeah, you guys would
know.
Yeah Well for hostingspecifically.
I mean, I think the best partabout what makes a good podcast
is kind of, like you said, abalance of good questions and
letting your guests go on atangent about interesting things
, because at the end of the daythey're the expert.
(11:53):
But I think that's just kind ofa unique dynamic between hosts
and guests, just exactly likeyou pointed out, because you
kind of keep them on track, butthey're the expert and they're
the one making the showinteresting.
Kattie (12:04):
Yeah, to keep them on track, but they're the expert
and they're the one making theshow interesting.
Yeah, I'll add too one of thethings that I always encourage
hosts to do is to also rememberthat they're a part of the
conversation too, right?
Somebody falls in love with thepodcast normally because they
love the hosts and what thehosts are bringing to the table.
So if a guest says somethingthat you're like I don't know if
I necessarily agree with that,then you should say that.
(12:26):
And.
Or if you have a follow upquestion, you should say that.
Or yeah, just remember like youcan pop in whenever you want.
It's your show and there's norules on podcasting.
Emma (12:36):
Oh yeah, for sure.
I mean the host is what makes,like, your audience and viewers
consistent.
And in terms of producing, Imean, obviously we don't know
much, but our mom, she produceslots of podcasts and I think
probably the most importantthing is she means she's the
dynamic, the same dynamic wehave with her and all her other
(12:56):
like podcasts.
Is that just a lot of goodcollaboration?
And you know, like all theselike-minded people coming into a
room, there's always good ideascoming out of it, which I think
is almost the beauty ofpodcasts.
Kattie (13:07):
Totally yeah.
I think they call it like avery democratic space where it's
open to a lot of differenttypes of open opinions and yeah,
I keep saying it, but likethere's no rules in podcasting.
It's so true, like it's stillsuch an early medium that you
can just kind of experiment anddecide what you want on the fly
(13:27):
and see if it works andresonates with your audience and
then, if it doesn't, you can goback to the way that you were
doing things, and it's not thatbig a deal.
Emma (13:35):
Just earlier you were talking about tips for hosts
specifically, but what is youradvice around building an
audience, a podcast audience anda community especially for
independent podcasters?
Because you're kind of making aconnecting community within
hosts with your newsletter, buthow do you kind of build a
podcasting audience, a communitywithin your audience?
(13:55):
How do you kind of build apodcasting audience, a community
within your audience?
Kattie (13:59):
Totally.
I think, first and foremost,the question you have to ask
yourself is, like, who is thispodcast for?
And you can think about it as,even as visually, as like okay,
this somebody is clicking playon this podcast and they're
thinking to themselves oh my God, finally I found a podcast
(14:26):
that's exactly for me.
Who is that person?
What are they like?
What are they up to every day?
You don't even have to thinkabout like how old they are.
Sometimes that's important, andsometimes their gender might be
important, but normally it'sjust a matter of like what their
interests are and what theirvalues are.
And so think about, like whothat person is for.
And then, now that you know whothat ideal person is, where do
they exist in the world?
Usually, there's a lot of otherpodcasts out there that might
(14:49):
have a very similar audience toyou, and so you can start to do
like strategizing around, likemaybe I should be a guest on
that podcast too and try and tapinto that show.
There's a couple of differenton that podcast, too, and try
and tap into that show.
There's a couple of differentways that you can collaborate
with other podcasts, but thenalso you can go to events where
(15:09):
those people are.
Maybe sometimes that's apodcast conference.
But maybe, let's say, you makea travel podcast.
Maybe you go to a travelconference or you go to some
event where a whole of likepeople who just graduated from
high school are looking to go ontheir trip around like
Southeast Asia or something, andyou go meet all these people
there.
So it depends on where youraudience, who you want your
audience to be, and then someclever and creative thinking
(15:32):
about where they exist in theworld and how you can tap into
that.
Xavier (15:36):
So you mentioned using podcasts for social good by like
bringing people together.
What do you mean by that?
Kattie (15:44):
Totally Well.
So I don't know if you guysknow, but the world is kind of
chaotic right now.
Xavier (15:49):
Absolutely.
Kattie (15:51):
There's a lot of stuff going on and it's all very
stressful stuff and the mediahas changed a lot since, like I
was growing up, like theirpodcasts weren't.
I mean, I'm 32 years old, Idon't think I'm that old but
like just 10 years ago thereweren't very many podcasts out.
Like radio was still a bigthing, even Spotify wasn't
(16:11):
really a thing.
Like we were illegallydownloading music off the
internet and listening to it onour iPod.
Like media is just changing sofast and so it's hard to know
where to like trust informationthat's coming to you and now I
think like we're getting anunderstanding that, like humans
are humans, there's a variety ofperspectives out there that,
(16:31):
like some you may severelydisagree with and some you may
very much advocate for, andpodcasting has sort of landed
into this beautiful space ofbeing able to showcase voices
that are important and lend avariety of different
perspectives.
So I think, when it comes topodcasting for good, I would
(16:52):
love to see because of howaccessible this medium is for me
.
I'm 32 years old, so spending$150 on a microphone it's not
that big of a deal for me and itisn't for a lot of 32-year-olds
.
Maybe it's different forteenagers, I would assume.
But typically podcasting isn'tvery expensive of a thing to do.
(17:15):
It's a pretty accessible thingto just make on your own.
Some people call it like a DIYkind of space, like a
do-it-yourself space, and it'svery reminiscent to me of like
the 80s, when people were makinglike underground punk music and
stuff and just recording theirstuff in their garages.
All of that to say like you canmake your own podcast pretty
(17:35):
easily, and so I would hope thatpeople are starting to use the
medium of podcasting to spreadgood messaging.
Unfortunately, we're not seeingthat a lot in the podcasting
space, so my advocacy aroundthis is to get more people using
their voices and more advocacyand more like money to those
(17:56):
people who are using podcastsfor good and for social justice.
So that's where my head is atin terms of podcasting for good.
Emma (18:04):
Oh yeah, for sure.
I'd say it's so important tolike podcast.
It's a beautiful tool, as yousaid, and using it for social
good it just makes sense as ofright now.
Kattie (18:16):
Right it 100%.
Makes sense.
Yeah, it just makes sense as ofright now, right it 100%?
Emma (18:19):
makes sense.
Yeah, so you obviously like youkind of, especially with your
newsletter.
You know the ins and outs ofthe Canadian podcasting world.
You know like all these toppodcasts.
So you were just talking aboutsocial good.
Can you give us some examplesof some podcasts you think are
podcasting for social good?
Kattie (18:38):
Ooh, great question, love this.
Okay, one of my favoritepodcasts right now is a show
called Tech Won't Save Us.
You guys probably know howingrained technology is like a
part of our lives.
At this point, like we can't,like I can't, I get, so stuck in
doom scrolling.
At this point, it's awful, um.
So this podcast called techwon't save us, it looks at the
(19:01):
podcast industry, like the wholeglobal industry, and basically
unpacks the idea that, like techbillionaires can save us all,
um, and that it takes like a lotmore than just technology to
like save the world.
Um, and so this host, parisMarx.
They have different guests onwho are like technologists or
(19:25):
experts about whatever fieldthat they exist in, and just
have a variety of conversationsthat are just rooted in
technology that's trying to likechange the world and kind of
looks at it critically.
So try and think of an example.
One that I listened to wasabout how like easy and breezy
(19:46):
traveling through airports hassupposedly gotten and how you
can just like book your ticketsonline and everything.
You barely even talk to aperson when you travel.
At this point, like it's crazy.
You don't have to do anything,you even get like a robot to you
travel.
At this point it's crazy.
You don't have to do anything,you even get a robot to print
(20:07):
your bag sticker and everything.
But with that has come a lot ofsketchy things that the travel
and airport airlines have beendoing to just basically make
more money off of people, maketraveling way less accessible
and make traveling way moreuncomfortable.
So they not only have theythey've been like kind of
getting rid of people working atthese places and losing jobs,
but they've also been makinglike like the the space between
(20:30):
chairs shorter so they can fitmore seats in.
They've been like up, like up,upselling people on how you have
to pay for like a bag.
Now, even just to carry on youhave to pay for.
So yeah, things like that thatthis podcast is digging into is
like what the heck is technologydoing to our world and what do
(20:52):
we actually need to do to solvethe problem that it's trying to
solve?
Emma (20:56):
Yeah, I think podcasts like that are just what the
world needs.
I mean kind of bringingawareness to the general public
about the issues technology isbringing, or just anything.
So you're talking about socialgood.
And to the listeners listening,I mean we get some people are
interested in starting a podcast, and I'm sure you get that all
the time.
So many times when we try totalk to them, they say they want
(21:19):
to start one and they sometimeshave an idea or sometimes even
just a title they like.
So, as I said, this must happento you all the time.
So, for anyone listening who'sthinking about starting their
own podcast, what advice wouldyou give them?
Kattie (21:34):
Ooh, I would say there's a couple pieces of advice, so
this might be a very lengthyanswer for you, but I would say
the first place to start is,like listen to podcasts, I think
, because there's a lot ofpeople who think they're pretty
funny out there and they're likeha ha ha, I should start a
podcast and I'm like I don'teven have you even listened to
one before, do you?
(21:55):
Do you know what kind of formatyou would want to do?
Because by listening to otherpodcasts, you get a better idea
of what you like and what youdon't like about other podcasts.
You get just inspired by othershows to decide on how you want
to do things, and that was ahuge part of how I started my
own podcast last year.
I was really inspired by thisone show called Normal Gossip
(22:19):
and I loved how they toldstories on that.
Basically, they get likeanonymous gossip stories and
then tell their guest this story.
So you as the listener are justlistening to this gossip story
the entire time and it's sofunny.
Yeah, so I just find inspirationfrom podcasts that I listen to
and things that I don't like,and then from there, like I
(22:41):
mentioned already, think aboutlike who your audience would be.
And this is where, like peoplewho typically are, like I'm
going to start a podcast, thisis where they just shut down
immediately because they didn'tactually think about their
audience.
They just thought about how funit'll be to like talk into a
microphone which is fun, I canconfirm this but when nobody's
listening, like, does it reallymatter, or are you just, is it
(23:04):
kind of cringe that you're theonly person like just talking
into the ether and nobody'slistening, right?
So thinking about who youraudience is is like the next big
chunk there.
And then from there, thinkabout, like, can you make maybe
five episodes out of this?
Can you make 10 episodes out ofthis idea?
If you can make only six, maybeyou can make a miniseries and
(23:28):
like, leave it at that and thenmake something new, like maybe
you don't want it to continue onand on and on forever, maybe
you only want it to be a limitedrun.
So think about how long youwant it to last as well, and
(23:52):
that'll give you also ameasurable goal of what to go
forward with, because for myshow that I launched last year
called Canardian I so yeah, Iwould say listen to podcasts,
figure out who your audience issee how long you want to do it
for.
And then, yeah, write a scriptand just record it.
Xavier (24:08):
That's great advice and I can Thank you, and I can also
confirm that it's so fun to talkto people and talking to a
microphone.
Kattie (24:17):
Yeah.
Xavier (24:18):
But could you tell us more about your podcast?
Kattie (24:22):
Sure.
So I mentioned that I was superinspired by that gossip podcast
.
There's a story about, like agirl's trip who.
These girls just graduated fromcollege and they decided to go
on a Southeast Asia triptogether and the four of them
decided they were each going tosplit and plan apart a leg of
(24:42):
their trip and basically theywent through the first three
legs until the last girl justdisappeared, just dipped, and
they didn't find out whathappened until they looked at
their phones and tracked herlocation and she was at the
airport headed home.
Basically, she just got a freetrip from her three friends and
(25:07):
then just like disappeared offthe face of the planet and just
like, yeah, crazy stories likethat.
So yeah, humanity is messy.
So this is what inspired mypodcast.
So I knew with Pod the Norththat I obviously love to support
Canadian podcasters as much asI can, but I was like a podcast
just talking about podcasts.
(25:27):
There's so many of those outthere already and the whole
point of this is to likehighlight their personalities.
I want to make a podcast wherepeople fall in love with other
Canadian podcasters and then golisten to their show.
So how do I do that?
I'm going to make them talkabout something that they can
definitely talk about and sharelike really compelling stories
(25:48):
about.
To me, that is hometowns.
So every episode of Canardian Ihave a Canadian podcaster come
on and we gossip about theirhometown.
I do a ton of research ahead oftime to see what the internet is
saying about this hometowncredible.
(26:11):
It is not peer-reviewed, it'snot got all these wonderful
resources.
The resources that I use forthis show are Reddit, facebook
groups, weird articles online,just hearsay, talking to people
that I know from those hometowns.
So, yeah, I put together like akind of some information about
(26:33):
the general vibe of thishometown and then I pick two
main stories that I've uncoveredabout this hometown.
So one of them recently wasabout like a lantern music
festival that took over the SixNations Reserve, telling
everybody that it was going tobe hosted in Toronto until all
(26:53):
these people showed up on thereserve and got kicked out
Things like that.
So, yeah, I think it's alsoopened up a ton of interesting
learnings that I've had aboutjust the history of Canada, a
lot of interesting contextaround just how cities were
formed here and all of thepeople that were displaced and
(27:14):
or killed because of that, and Ithink it's like opened up a lot
of important conversationsaround power and reconciliation
in like some really fun ways.
So, yeah, that's what the showis doing.
We're gossiping about Canadianhometowns with Canadian
podcasters.
Xavier (27:35):
And you get the information from what people
think about those hometowns.
Kattie (27:39):
Yeah, pretty much.
So Facebook groups are agoldmine for this content.
Boomers love to talk onFacebook groups and love to
share their opinions.
Oh, it's such good stuff totalk about on the show.
Xavier (27:56):
So you were talking a little bit about Pod the North
there.
Could we talk about a littlebit a different part of Pod the
North and could you maybe giveus a sneak peek on what's going
to be the next edition of Podthe North?
Kattie (28:07):
Sure, so I'm working on.
So Pod the North, as anewsletter that I work on on the
side, is chaotic.
There's a lot of ideas that Ihave to write about and there's
a lot of things on the go allthe time.
So basically every issue of Podthe North has sort of like a
summary rundown of things thatare going on in the ecosystem,
(28:30):
just so everybody knows what'sgoing on.
But then there's also like abig piece that I write or I
interview somebody about.
So, coming up, I am in the midstof writing a piece about what
indie podcasters should do if apolitician asks to be on their
podcast, like how to approachthat interview, why they might
(28:51):
want to be on that podcast,because for a lot of indie
podcasters, if a giantpolitician asked to be a guest
on your show, it could be like,oh my God, what this is so
flattering, yes, please, untilyou take a step back and realize
why they truly are wanting tobe there, what kind of questions
you can actually get away withasking them.
So that's a piece that I'mworking on right now, and then
(29:14):
I'm also working on what else.
There's some other excitingthings I like to dissect, just
like some of the big players andcorporate entities here that
you guys might not be asfamiliar with because you
haven't been through thetrenches yet.
But just, you wait, if you keeppodcasting you will.
But yeah, just some fun pieceslike that.
(29:36):
That's the first one that I canthink of off the top of my head
.
Emma (29:42):
So you said you like talking a lot, but you also seem
very passionate about writing.
What's your favorite and why?
Kattie (29:53):
There's a variety of different kinds of pieces that I
write.
This is the thing.
So sometimes I write like mywhat I think is just like DIY
journalism is what I'll call it.
So I'm super curious about apiece and I'll do interviews and
then just kind of write anessay and put those interviews
in between, sprinkled in betweenjust to prove my point, or to
(30:16):
prove a point.
One of the ones that I did thatI'm really proud of and that
resonated with people a lot wasare awards worth it for
podcasters?
There's a ton of podcastingawards out there and a lot of
them are based on like apopularity contest basically,
where basically the podcast withthe biggest audience wins,
they're going to get the mostvotes.
(30:36):
Um, there aren't a lot outthere with, like a judge and
jurors who are judging thecredibility of like how a story
is told, how it's produced andall that stuff.
So I did a dig, a deep diveinto it and ended up finding out
a little bit more about thisone podcasting awards than I
anticipated and found out thatone of these awards companies
(30:59):
called the Webby's is making,like I don't know almost a
million dollars off of like oneaward ceremony and like really
not doing much for the community.
It's ultimately like people winwhen they have enough money to
buy a trophy, basically.
So I ended up unpacking it andfinding out just how scammy some
(31:21):
of these things can be.
So that's one of my favoritepieces that I've unpacked and
resonated with people the most.
Then I've also been writing justsome more creative stuff or
just like sort of informedessays I guess I'll call it
informed but air quotes for ourlisteners there.
But I wrote a piece about how,like branded podcasts might end
(31:42):
up getting more chaotic if theyend up kind of following the way
that TikTok is going.
And I know you guys haveprobably seen ads and sponsored
content on TikTok a bunch andInstagram reels and you can see
(32:10):
how chaotic those vibes can bethese TikTok accounts that are
representative of an entire hugebrand and just commenting like
unhinged stuff in the comments,posting crazy things, and I was
like what happens if they get ahold of the podcasting space?
So I did like a whole write upabout my thoughts about what
could happen if we follow thechaotic vibes that seem to be
(32:33):
doing so well for brands andwhat that could look like in
podcasting.
So, yeah, those are a couple ofmy favorite pieces, and
somewhat recent ones too.
Xavier (32:43):
So that's crazy that the awards go to just not like the
best podcast, but just thepodcast that most people listen
to Pretty much.
So like besides our podcast, doyou have some other favorite
independent podcasts that youlove to listen to Pretty much so
like besides our podcast, doyou have some other favorite
independent podcasts that youlove to listen to?
Kattie (32:58):
Yeah, okay, let me think about that for a second.
So I mentioned Tech Won't SaveUs.
That's an independent podcastand it's gotten so successful
that the host, paris Marks, andtheir producers they're like
just they've gotten to build acareer out of this stuff.
Paris is also an author too, sothey always go around the world
(33:20):
and sort of talk about techstuff.
So that's a great independentpodcast.
There's another really good oneabout chess, and this is the
thing.
You're never going to make agiant podcast for everybody.
You're usually going to bemaking a podcast for like a very
niche, engaged audience.
My friend and her partner makea podcast called Rooked the
(33:41):
Cheater's Gambit and it's aninvestigative quote unquote
investigative podcast into theworld of chess.
And looking at this big scandalthat happened like a whole
bunch of years ago, um, andlooking at this big scandal that
happened like a whole bunch ofyears ago, uh, it got so like
for a while people didn't reallycare about this because it's
like just people who are intochess like I'm always following
(34:02):
the world of chess drama, um,until elon musk got involved in
it and started tweeting about itand making comments and like
stirred up all this controversyaround it.
Now everyone.
Now everyone's involved.
Yeah, now everybody needs toknow about chess.
So, uh, yeah, jess and herpartner ryan end up doing some
interviews to understand, like,the world of the chess culture,
(34:27):
um, but it ends up beingbasically ryan just trying to
convince jess to like chess.
It's a really fun show.
Every episode kind of unpacks adifferent theme that's existing
in the world of chess.
But it's also a really fun justlike not examination.
Just it shows their dynamic asa couple and as like a chess
(34:47):
obsessed guy and a not so chessobsessed person, they just have
a really fun dynamic.
Uh, talking about this.
So that's another really goodindie podcast well, I, I love
chess, it's, it's oh, there yougo.
It's a great show.
It's a great show, xavier,you're gonna love it.
I should watch it or listen toit.
Emma (35:07):
Listen to it oh, this has been a fantastic interview, but
we go.
We have one more question.
What's the secret to a greatinterview just like this one?
Kattie (35:19):
Ooh, I mean, like you said, the confidence you got to
have confidence.
I think a great interviewfollows some sort of like maybe
narrative arc in some capacity.
I think a great interviewstarts with the best questions
first, because, especially inpodcasting, you want to keep
people around right from thejump.
(35:40):
And a great interview feelslike personal and like I don't
know personal to the guest andlike the interviewer actually
cares.
Yeah, those are all my tips.
Emma (35:57):
they're they're amazing tips there.
You've obviously been aroundthe block a few times a couple
of times yeah, definitely havethem well, thank you so much
this has just been an amazingtime, so eye-opening to the
world of podcasts.
I mean, you're obviously sopassionate and like just so
informed about the subject.
(36:17):
I think like people couldlisten to you talk for hours
about it.
It's, it's amazing.
Thank you so much this is thething.
Kattie (36:24):
I could talk about it for hours.
I don't know if people want tolisten to it, and just because I
can talk about things for hoursdoesn't mean I'm the best
person, so always listen todifferent perspectives.
Emma (36:35):
Thank you so much.
Xavier (36:36):
Thank you so much for your time.
We had a lot of fun.
Kattie (36:39):
Thank you guys.
Emma (36:43):
Thank you for listening and I know all the shows.
You probably listened to saythis, but if you enjoyed this
episode, please follow and ratethe podcast.
Xavier (36:50):
Also, we would love to connect with you and hear your
thoughts about our episodes.
You can find us on Instagram orvisit our website.
The links are in the show notes.
Thanks for tuning in.
Bye.
One of the things that I always encourage hosts to do is
to also remember that, likethey are a part of the
conversation too right, likesomebody falls in love with the
podcast, normally because theylove the hosts and what the
hosts are bringing to the table.
So if a guest says somethingthat you're like I don't know if
I necessarily agree with thatthen you should say that.
Or if you have a follow-upquestion, you should say that.
(00:22):
Or, yeah, just remember, youcan pop in whenever you want.
It's your show and there's norules on podcasting.
Xavier (00:31):
Hi, welcome to Curious Conversations, a podcast for
kids, by kids.
I'm one of your hosts, xavier.
Emma (00:39):
And I'm your other host, emma, and we're so excited to
bring you another season ofinteresting discussions with
people from all walks of life,to learn about their passions
and what inspires them.
Xavier (00:48):
We are still as curious as ever and we hope you will
join us on our journey.
Hi everyone, today we are superexcited to talk with Katie
Lauer.
She's a podcaster, producer andthe creator of Pod the North, a
really cool newsletter allabout the Canadian podcast scene
.
Basically, she knows a lotabout podcasting.
(01:09):
This was such a funconversation because it was the
first time we got to chat withanother podcaster about well
podcasting.
Katie shared some awesomeadvice, told us what she loves
about making podcasts and eventalked about some of the
challenges that come with it.
If you ever thought aboutstarting a podcast or just want
(01:30):
to know what goes on behind themic, this episode is for you, so
let's get into it.
Emma (01:38):
Hi Katie.
Thank you so much for joiningus on the show.
Kattie (01:41):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm very excited to be here.
It's so funny joining a callwith two people at the exact
same time.
What grade are you guys in?
Grade nine, ooh, okay.
Yeah, first year of high schoolhardcore yeah.
Emma (01:58):
So, katie, you've been in the producing podcasting
industry for a while.
You're a podcast producer andthe author of Pod North, a
newsletter for Canadianpodcasters.
So, before we get into all that, do you remember the first
podcast you listened to?
Kattie (02:14):
Oh yeah, I remember it very vividly.
It feels like it wasn't thatlong ago because podcasting
hasn't been that popular forvery long, but I remember I
think I was on a treadmill orlike on an elliptical at the
time and I decided to just hitplay on this podcast called
Reply All and it was this guylooking into, like, who is
(02:37):
behind all of those scammy phonecalls that you get.
So he actually tracked downthis company, this huge company
who is based in India, and hewent to India, found all of
these people who worked for thiscompany and discovered the
scammy people behind all of thisstuff.
It was nuts and that justopened up a whole world of
(03:00):
storytelling and everything youcould do with audio.
It was crazy.
So I remember this very well.
Emma (03:06):
Wow, that's, that's insane .
I wonder how he got that idea.
I mean, obviously people wouldlisten to that.
Kattie (03:12):
Yeah, it was basically just a podcast where a guy was
like how the heck doestechnology work and why are
these things happening?
And then decided, listen, I'm ajournalist, I could probably
figure this all out.
Emma (03:25):
Then did oh yeah, best podcast start with curious
people, so oh yeah, reallyinteresting, definitely, uh.
Xavier (03:32):
So we would like to know a little bit more about pod the
north.
Uh, why did you start it andwhy did you decide to focus on
canadian podcasting?
Kattie (03:41):
oh, I mean, I definitely have an answer for this that
I've talked about a bunch, butI'm starting to question how
much the two of you, a couple ofgrade nines, will care about it
.
But basically I will.
I just worked in podcasting orI was desperate to work in
podcasting for a long time.
I went to I mean by grade 12, Iwas like I definitely want to
(04:02):
work in radio.
I went through all ofuniversity and was like, yeah, I
, I definitely want to work inradio.
I went through all ofuniversity and was like, yeah,
I'm definitely going to work inradio, for sure, this is the
game plan.
I graduated and I did not get ajob and I was like what the heck
?
So I applied for jobs over andover and over again after
graduating, couldn't find any.
Finally did find some, whichwas me making my own work.
(04:25):
I decided to just find someclients who would pay me to make
them podcasts.
And then I was like listen, whyis this so hard?
Why am I a talented producer?
I learned all this stuff fromschool, but nobody's giving me
jobs, nobody's emailing me back.
I don't even know what is goingon here.
So basically, by meeting peoplein Canadian podcasting, I
(04:47):
realized that everybody sort offelt the same way.
Everyone was like I don't knowwhat's going on here and I feel
like my talent isn't being sortof showcased or nobody even
knows I exist.
So that's what brought me toPod the North, which was
basically a mission to connectthe Canadian podcasting
ecosystem and making sure that,like people who are just making
podcasts for fun, like you guys,or people who are doing it on
(05:10):
like a professional level andgetting paid by people, all feel
like they know what's going onaround here and can find each
other as resources and hire eachother and just make it easier
to exist here.
Emma (05:22):
Wow, that's, that's certainly a lot.
I mean that just that's.
You took a kind of a big holein the kind of canadian
podcasters and you kind of tiedus all together, which I think a
lot of us will be thankful for,because it's, it's kind of nice
to know and like learn andrebound ideas off each other,
and that newsletter is just it'sgoing to start a whole
(05:44):
community?
Xavier (05:45):
Yeah, I have a feeling Helps people connect.
Kattie (05:48):
That's the plan, and you're totally right too, emma,
because I started the newsletterthinking like listen, I think
only like a couple of my friendsare going to read this.
It's mostly just me ranting andcomplaining and then all of a
sudden it just exploded and awhole bunch of people really
resonated with it and it's beenaround for about two years and
it's kind of kicked off theground more than I expected it
(06:11):
to.
I got a bunch of speaking gigsfrom it over the last couple of
years.
I did a live event a couple ofyears ago to celebrate the one
year anniversary of it.
Got CBC podcasts involved.
Yeah, it's kind of picked upoff the ground more than I
expected.
So hopefully everything youjust said is going to come to
fruition one day.
Xavier (06:32):
Hopefully.
Kattie (06:33):
I will, for sure.
Emma (06:36):
So it seems like you have a bit of everything when it
comes to podcasts.
You just said you kind ofstarted off just kind of helping
a few people out.
So, through your wholeexperience working in the
podcasting industry said youkind of started off like just
kind of like helping a fewpeople out.
So, like through your wholeexperience working in the
podcasting industry, what hasbeen your, what do you love most
about it and what's yourfavorite thing about it?
Kattie (06:52):
Well, I think, if you can't tell already, I love
talking.
I love talking to people aboutpodcasts.
I love talking on podcasts andalong with that I think I have a
lot of just creativity that Ilike to express in some capacity
.
And podcasting was so funbecause you could just do
whatever you wanted.
There's really no rules inpodcasts.
(07:14):
You might think if you want towork in radio, you have to work
for a big company, but turns outyou can make radio on demand
for anybody to listen to andjust do your own thing, and you
don't have to find a job.
On demand for anybody to listento and just do your own thing
and you don't have to find a job.
It's still hard to get paid inpodcasting, though, so that
takes work.
But yeah, what I love so muchabout it is just like I love
just being a part of thecreative process and also
(07:35):
finding like really importantstories and things that people
are talking about that I thinkare valuable in the world and
helping them grow audiencesaround them.
So that's the work that I donow is around like building
audiences and buildingcommunities.
But yeah, I think I've alwayshad like a bit of a justice
streak in me and I've alwayssought out like good things for
(07:58):
people and when I see thatpeople have important things to
say, then I want to make surethat people hear those things.
I see that people haveimportant things to say, then I
want to make sure that peoplehear those things.
Emma (08:06):
I mean totally.
I think in the next comingyears, podcasts are definitely
going to be on the increase.
They already are, oh yeah.
Especially with radio.
I think podcasts are almostsurpassing it.
It's really important foreveryone to get something to say
, because everyone can learnsomething from someone else
Totally.
Kattie (08:24):
Absolutely Totally.
Xavier (08:27):
And that's amazing, like trying to connect different
people.
Kattie (08:30):
Thanks, it's hard, it's a lot of work.
I'm definitely like tired allthe time.
I will say that, but I can'thelp it.
When you feel like you can'thelp, but do something, it just
happens.
Xavier (08:44):
It always feels better when you can help Totally.
Kattie (08:47):
Yeah.
Xavier (08:48):
That's awesome, obviously, but even just hosting
a podcast, we know that it'snot always easy.
So what's the most challengingthing about working in
podcasting?
Kattie (08:58):
That's such a big question, xavier.
As specifically as a host or in, like making a podcast, what
are you the most curious aboutIn both?
Okay, I think.
Like in hosting a podcast, Ithink it's hard to stay in the
moment and like listen to yourguest while also thinking about
(09:21):
how to like make an interestingconversation and drive a
narrative through theconversation that you're having.
So sometimes you have like aplan of questions that you're
going to ask somebody, but thensomebody kind of goes on another
tangent that might be moreinteresting than the questions
that you've planned, and makingthat judgment call in the moment
(09:41):
is kind of like distracting atthe same time.
So, yeah, that's the toughestpart about hosting a podcast, I
think, is like staying in themoment but also deciding what's
the most interesting and alsosticking to the game plan,
because if you work in thisfield and you have a producer or
a whole team behind you,they've probably spent a lot of
(10:03):
time doing research for you andwriting interview questions for
you, and so you don't want tocompletely abandon everything
that they've prepared.
You got to stay a team playertoo.
So, yeah, those are the hardestparts of hosting.
And then, in terms of producing,let's say.
I mean there's so many differentways to approach this, but
(10:25):
let's talk about it in terms oflike deciding on what sort of
topic to do for a podcastepisode.
I mean, when you start a podcastyou might have millions of
ideas or you might think youhave a really good idea until
you think about all the episodesyou can do and you're like,
wait, I think that's only goodenough for one episode, like, I
don't think we have much morethan this.
(10:45):
So figuring out what themission of your podcast and if
there's enough in there to makea show an interesting show, can
be really challenging and it canbe like a long conversation
with teams that you have.
I don't know, maybe you've hadthis conversation with your mom
already, so I know she's apodcast producer and I'm sure
(11:07):
she's got lots of great ideasfor the show too, and you guys
have different ideas.
So sometimes, like having thatcollaborative team, you have to
figure out all right, like how,when am I going to just step
back and let somebody else'sidea go forward?
Or how hard am I going to pushfor my ideas and when do I know
that something is a compellingpitch?
Lots of things in that there.
Emma (11:31):
Well, yeah, it's certainly a lot of work.
I say, hosting and producingpodcasts, yeah, you guys would
know.
Yeah Well for hostingspecifically.
I mean, I think the best partabout what makes a good podcast
is kind of, like you said, abalance of good questions and
letting your guests go on atangent about interesting things
, because at the end of the daythey're the expert.
(11:53):
But I think that's just kind ofa unique dynamic between hosts
and guests, just exactly likeyou pointed out, because you
kind of keep them on track, butthey're the expert and they're
the one making the showinteresting.
Kattie (12:04):
Yeah, to keep them on track, but they're the expert
and they're the one making theshow interesting.
Yeah, I'll add too one of thethings that I always encourage
hosts to do is to also rememberthat they're a part of the
conversation too, right?
Somebody falls in love with thepodcast normally because they
love the hosts and what thehosts are bringing to the table.
So if a guest says somethingthat you're like I don't know if
I necessarily agree with that,then you should say that.
(12:26):
And.
Or if you have a follow upquestion, you should say that.
Or yeah, just remember like youcan pop in whenever you want.
It's your show and there's norules on podcasting.
Emma (12:36):
Oh yeah, for sure.
I mean the host is what makes,like, your audience and viewers
consistent.
And in terms of producing, Imean, obviously we don't know
much, but our mom, she produceslots of podcasts and I think
probably the most importantthing is she means she's the
dynamic, the same dynamic wehave with her and all her other
(12:56):
like podcasts.
Is that just a lot of goodcollaboration?
And you know, like all theselike-minded people coming into a
room, there's always good ideascoming out of it, which I think
is almost the beauty ofpodcasts.
Kattie (13:07):
Totally yeah.
I think they call it like avery democratic space where it's
open to a lot of differenttypes of open opinions and yeah,
I keep saying it, but likethere's no rules in podcasting.
It's so true, like it's stillsuch an early medium that you
can just kind of experiment anddecide what you want on the fly
(13:27):
and see if it works andresonates with your audience and
then, if it doesn't, you can goback to the way that you were
doing things, and it's not thatbig a deal.
Emma (13:35):
Just earlier you were talking about tips for hosts
specifically, but what is youradvice around building an
audience, a podcast audience anda community especially for
independent podcasters?
Because you're kind of making aconnecting community within
hosts with your newsletter, buthow do you kind of build a
podcasting audience, a communitywithin your audience?
(13:55):
How do you kind of build apodcasting audience, a community
within your audience?
Kattie (13:59):
Totally.
I think, first and foremost,the question you have to ask
yourself is, like, who is thispodcast for?
And you can think about it as,even as visually, as like okay,
this somebody is clicking playon this podcast and they're
thinking to themselves oh my God, finally I found a podcast
(14:26):
that's exactly for me.
Who is that person?
What are they like?
What are they up to every day?
You don't even have to thinkabout like how old they are.
Sometimes that's important, andsometimes their gender might be
important, but normally it'sjust a matter of like what their
interests are and what theirvalues are.
And so think about, like whothat person is for.
And then, now that you know whothat ideal person is, where do
they exist in the world?
Usually, there's a lot of otherpodcasts out there that might
(14:49):
have a very similar audience toyou, and so you can start to do
like strategizing around, likemaybe I should be a guest on
that podcast too and try and tapinto that show.
There's a couple of differenton that podcast, too, and try
and tap into that show.
There's a couple of differentways that you can collaborate
with other podcasts, but thenalso you can go to events where
(15:09):
those people are.
Maybe sometimes that's apodcast conference.
But maybe, let's say, you makea travel podcast.
Maybe you go to a travelconference or you go to some
event where a whole of likepeople who just graduated from
high school are looking to go ontheir trip around like
Southeast Asia or something, andyou go meet all these people
there.
So it depends on where youraudience, who you want your
audience to be, and then someclever and creative thinking
(15:32):
about where they exist in theworld and how you can tap into
that.
Xavier (15:36):
So you mentioned using podcasts for social good by like
bringing people together.
What do you mean by that?
Kattie (15:44):
Totally Well.
So I don't know if you guysknow, but the world is kind of
chaotic right now.
Xavier (15:49):
Absolutely.
Kattie (15:51):
There's a lot of stuff going on and it's all very
stressful stuff and the mediahas changed a lot since, like I
was growing up, like theirpodcasts weren't.
I mean, I'm 32 years old, Idon't think I'm that old but
like just 10 years ago thereweren't very many podcasts out.
Like radio was still a bigthing, even Spotify wasn't
(16:11):
really a thing.
Like we were illegallydownloading music off the
internet and listening to it onour iPod.
Like media is just changing sofast and so it's hard to know
where to like trust informationthat's coming to you and now I
think like we're getting anunderstanding that, like humans
are humans, there's a variety ofperspectives out there that,
(16:31):
like some you may severelydisagree with and some you may
very much advocate for, andpodcasting has sort of landed
into this beautiful space ofbeing able to showcase voices
that are important and lend avariety of different
perspectives.
So I think, when it comes topodcasting for good, I would
(16:52):
love to see because of howaccessible this medium is for me
.
I'm 32 years old, so spending$150 on a microphone it's not
that big of a deal for me and itisn't for a lot of 32-year-olds
.
Maybe it's different forteenagers, I would assume.
But typically podcasting isn'tvery expensive of a thing to do.
(17:15):
It's a pretty accessible thingto just make on your own.
Some people call it like a DIYkind of space, like a
do-it-yourself space, and it'svery reminiscent to me of like
the 80s, when people were makinglike underground punk music and
stuff and just recording theirstuff in their garages.
All of that to say like you canmake your own podcast pretty
(17:35):
easily, and so I would hope thatpeople are starting to use the
medium of podcasting to spreadgood messaging.
Unfortunately, we're not seeingthat a lot in the podcasting
space, so my advocacy aroundthis is to get more people using
their voices and more advocacyand more like money to those
(17:56):
people who are using podcastsfor good and for social justice.
So that's where my head is atin terms of podcasting for good.
Emma (18:04):
Oh yeah, for sure.
I'd say it's so important tolike podcast.
It's a beautiful tool, as yousaid, and using it for social
good it just makes sense as ofright now.
Kattie (18:16):
Right it 100%.
Makes sense.
Yeah, it just makes sense as ofright now, right it 100%?
Emma (18:19):
makes sense.
Yeah, so you obviously like youkind of, especially with your
newsletter.
You know the ins and outs ofthe Canadian podcasting world.
You know like all these toppodcasts.
So you were just talking aboutsocial good.
Can you give us some examplesof some podcasts you think are
podcasting for social good?
Kattie (18:38):
Ooh, great question, love this.
Okay, one of my favoritepodcasts right now is a show
called Tech Won't Save Us.
You guys probably know howingrained technology is like a
part of our lives.
At this point, like we can't,like I can't, I get, so stuck in
doom scrolling.
At this point, it's awful, um.
So this podcast called techwon't save us, it looks at the
(19:01):
podcast industry, like the wholeglobal industry, and basically
unpacks the idea that, like techbillionaires can save us all,
um, and that it takes like a lotmore than just technology to
like save the world.
Um, and so this host, parisMarx.
They have different guests onwho are like technologists or
(19:25):
experts about whatever fieldthat they exist in, and just
have a variety of conversationsthat are just rooted in
technology that's trying to likechange the world and kind of
looks at it critically.
So try and think of an example.
One that I listened to wasabout how like easy and breezy
(19:46):
traveling through airports hassupposedly gotten and how you
can just like book your ticketsonline and everything.
You barely even talk to aperson when you travel.
At this point, like it's crazy.
You don't have to do anything,you even get like a robot to you
travel.
At this point it's crazy.
You don't have to do anything,you even get a robot to print
(20:07):
your bag sticker and everything.
But with that has come a lot ofsketchy things that the travel
and airport airlines have beendoing to just basically make
more money off of people, maketraveling way less accessible
and make traveling way moreuncomfortable.
So they not only have theythey've been like kind of
getting rid of people working atthese places and losing jobs,
but they've also been makinglike like the the space between
(20:30):
chairs shorter so they can fitmore seats in.
They've been like up, like up,upselling people on how you have
to pay for like a bag.
Now, even just to carry on youhave to pay for.
So yeah, things like that thatthis podcast is digging into is
like what the heck is technologydoing to our world and what do
(20:52):
we actually need to do to solvethe problem that it's trying to
solve?
Emma (20:56):
Yeah, I think podcasts like that are just what the
world needs.
I mean kind of bringingawareness to the general public
about the issues technology isbringing, or just anything.
So you're talking about socialgood.
And to the listeners listening,I mean we get some people are
interested in starting a podcast, and I'm sure you get that all
the time.
So many times when we try totalk to them, they say they want
(21:19):
to start one and they sometimeshave an idea or sometimes even
just a title they like.
So, as I said, this must happento you all the time.
So, for anyone listening who'sthinking about starting their
own podcast, what advice wouldyou give them?
Kattie (21:34):
Ooh, I would say there's a couple pieces of advice, so
this might be a very lengthyanswer for you, but I would say
the first place to start is,like listen to podcasts, I think
, because there's a lot ofpeople who think they're pretty
funny out there and they're likeha ha ha, I should start a
podcast and I'm like I don'teven have you even listened to
one before, do you?
(21:55):
Do you know what kind of formatyou would want to do?
Because by listening to otherpodcasts, you get a better idea
of what you like and what youdon't like about other podcasts.
You get just inspired by othershows to decide on how you want
to do things, and that was ahuge part of how I started my
own podcast last year.
I was really inspired by thisone show called Normal Gossip
(22:19):
and I loved how they toldstories on that.
Basically, they get likeanonymous gossip stories and
then tell their guest this story.
So you as the listener are justlistening to this gossip story
the entire time and it's sofunny.
Yeah, so I just find inspirationfrom podcasts that I listen to
and things that I don't like,and then from there, like I
(22:41):
mentioned already, think aboutlike who your audience would be.
And this is where, like peoplewho typically are, like I'm
going to start a podcast, thisis where they just shut down
immediately because they didn'tactually think about their
audience.
They just thought about how funit'll be to like talk into a
microphone which is fun, I canconfirm this but when nobody's
listening, like, does it reallymatter, or are you just, is it
(23:04):
kind of cringe that you're theonly person like just talking
into the ether and nobody'slistening, right?
So thinking about who youraudience is is like the next big
chunk there.
And then from there, thinkabout, like, can you make maybe
five episodes out of this?
Can you make 10 episodes out ofthis idea?
If you can make only six, maybeyou can make a miniseries and
(23:28):
like, leave it at that and thenmake something new, like maybe
you don't want it to continue onand on and on forever, maybe
you only want it to be a limitedrun.
So think about how long youwant it to last as well, and
(23:52):
that'll give you also ameasurable goal of what to go
forward with, because for myshow that I launched last year
called Canardian I so yeah, Iwould say listen to podcasts,
figure out who your audience issee how long you want to do it
for.
And then, yeah, write a scriptand just record it.
Xavier (24:08):
That's great advice and I can Thank you, and I can also
confirm that it's so fun to talkto people and talking to a
microphone.
Kattie (24:17):
Yeah.
Xavier (24:18):
But could you tell us more about your podcast?
Kattie (24:22):
Sure.
So I mentioned that I was superinspired by that gossip podcast
.
There's a story about, like agirl's trip who.
These girls just graduated fromcollege and they decided to go
on a Southeast Asia triptogether and the four of them
decided they were each going tosplit and plan apart a leg of
(24:42):
their trip and basically theywent through the first three
legs until the last girl justdisappeared, just dipped, and
they didn't find out whathappened until they looked at
their phones and tracked herlocation and she was at the
airport headed home.
Basically, she just got a freetrip from her three friends and
(25:07):
then just like disappeared offthe face of the planet and just
like, yeah, crazy stories likethat.
So yeah, humanity is messy.
So this is what inspired mypodcast.
So I knew with Pod the Norththat I obviously love to support
Canadian podcasters as much asI can, but I was like a podcast
just talking about podcasts.
(25:27):
There's so many of those outthere already and the whole
point of this is to likehighlight their personalities.
I want to make a podcast wherepeople fall in love with other
Canadian podcasters and then golisten to their show.
So how do I do that?
I'm going to make them talkabout something that they can
definitely talk about and sharelike really compelling stories
(25:48):
about.
To me, that is hometowns.
So every episode of Canardian Ihave a Canadian podcaster come
on and we gossip about theirhometown.
I do a ton of research ahead oftime to see what the internet is
saying about this hometowncredible.
(26:11):
It is not peer-reviewed, it'snot got all these wonderful
resources.
The resources that I use forthis show are Reddit, facebook
groups, weird articles online,just hearsay, talking to people
that I know from those hometowns.
So, yeah, I put together like akind of some information about
(26:33):
the general vibe of thishometown and then I pick two
main stories that I've uncoveredabout this hometown.
So one of them recently wasabout like a lantern music
festival that took over the SixNations Reserve, telling
everybody that it was going tobe hosted in Toronto until all
(26:53):
these people showed up on thereserve and got kicked out
Things like that.
So, yeah, I think it's alsoopened up a ton of interesting
learnings that I've had aboutjust the history of Canada, a
lot of interesting contextaround just how cities were
formed here and all of thepeople that were displaced and
(27:14):
or killed because of that, and Ithink it's like opened up a lot
of important conversationsaround power and reconciliation
in like some really fun ways.
So, yeah, that's what the showis doing.
We're gossiping about Canadianhometowns with Canadian
podcasters.
Xavier (27:35):
And you get the information from what people
think about those hometowns.
Kattie (27:39):
Yeah, pretty much.
So Facebook groups are agoldmine for this content.
Boomers love to talk onFacebook groups and love to
share their opinions.
Oh, it's such good stuff totalk about on the show.
Xavier (27:56):
So you were talking a little bit about Pod the North
there.
Could we talk about a littlebit a different part of Pod the
North and could you maybe giveus a sneak peek on what's going
to be the next edition of Podthe North?
Kattie (28:07):
Sure, so I'm working on.
So Pod the North, as anewsletter that I work on on the
side, is chaotic.
There's a lot of ideas that Ihave to write about and there's
a lot of things on the go allthe time.
So basically every issue of Podthe North has sort of like a
summary rundown of things thatare going on in the ecosystem,
(28:30):
just so everybody knows what'sgoing on.
But then there's also like abig piece that I write or I
interview somebody about.
So, coming up, I am in the midstof writing a piece about what
indie podcasters should do if apolitician asks to be on their
podcast, like how to approachthat interview, why they might
(28:51):
want to be on that podcast,because for a lot of indie
podcasters, if a giantpolitician asked to be a guest
on your show, it could be like,oh my God, what this is so
flattering, yes, please, untilyou take a step back and realize
why they truly are wanting tobe there, what kind of questions
you can actually get away withasking them.
So that's a piece that I'mworking on right now, and then
(29:14):
I'm also working on what else.
There's some other excitingthings I like to dissect, just
like some of the big players andcorporate entities here that
you guys might not be asfamiliar with because you
haven't been through thetrenches yet.
But just, you wait, if you keeppodcasting you will.
But yeah, just some fun pieceslike that.
(29:36):
That's the first one that I canthink of off the top of my head
.
Emma (29:42):
So you said you like talking a lot, but you also seem
very passionate about writing.
What's your favorite and why?
Kattie (29:53):
There's a variety of different kinds of pieces that I
write.
This is the thing.
So sometimes I write like mywhat I think is just like DIY
journalism is what I'll call it.
So I'm super curious about apiece and I'll do interviews and
then just kind of write anessay and put those interviews
in between, sprinkled in betweenjust to prove my point, or to
(30:16):
prove a point.
One of the ones that I did thatI'm really proud of and that
resonated with people a lot wasare awards worth it for
podcasters?
There's a ton of podcastingawards out there and a lot of
them are based on like apopularity contest basically,
where basically the podcast withthe biggest audience wins,
they're going to get the mostvotes.
(30:36):
Um, there aren't a lot outthere with, like a judge and
jurors who are judging thecredibility of like how a story
is told, how it's produced andall that stuff.
So I did a dig, a deep diveinto it and ended up finding out
a little bit more about thisone podcasting awards than I
anticipated and found out thatone of these awards companies
(30:59):
called the Webby's is making,like I don't know almost a
million dollars off of like oneaward ceremony and like really
not doing much for the community.
It's ultimately like people winwhen they have enough money to
buy a trophy, basically.
So I ended up unpacking it andfinding out just how scammy some
(31:21):
of these things can be.
So that's one of my favoritepieces that I've unpacked and
resonated with people the most.
Then I've also been writing justsome more creative stuff or
just like sort of informedessays I guess I'll call it
informed but air quotes for ourlisteners there.
But I wrote a piece about how,like branded podcasts might end
(31:42):
up getting more chaotic if theyend up kind of following the way
that TikTok is going.
And I know you guys haveprobably seen ads and sponsored
content on TikTok a bunch andInstagram reels and you can see
(32:10):
how chaotic those vibes can bethese TikTok accounts that are
representative of an entire hugebrand and just commenting like
unhinged stuff in the comments,posting crazy things, and I was
like what happens if they get ahold of the podcasting space?
So I did like a whole write upabout my thoughts about what
could happen if we follow thechaotic vibes that seem to be
(32:33):
doing so well for brands andwhat that could look like in
podcasting.
So, yeah, those are a couple ofmy favorite pieces, and
somewhat recent ones too.
Xavier (32:43):
So that's crazy that the awards go to just not like the
best podcast, but just thepodcast that most people listen
to Pretty much.
So like besides our podcast, doyou have some other favorite
independent podcasts that youlove to listen to Pretty much so
like besides our podcast, doyou have some other favorite
independent podcasts that youlove to listen to?
Kattie (32:58):
Yeah, okay, let me think about that for a second.
So I mentioned Tech Won't SaveUs.
That's an independent podcastand it's gotten so successful
that the host, paris Marks, andtheir producers they're like
just they've gotten to build acareer out of this stuff.
Paris is also an author too, sothey always go around the world
(33:20):
and sort of talk about techstuff.
So that's a great independentpodcast.
There's another really good oneabout chess, and this is the
thing.
You're never going to make agiant podcast for everybody.
You're usually going to bemaking a podcast for like a very
niche, engaged audience.
My friend and her partner makea podcast called Rooked the
(33:41):
Cheater's Gambit and it's aninvestigative quote unquote
investigative podcast into theworld of chess.
And looking at this big scandalthat happened like a whole
bunch of years ago, um, andlooking at this big scandal that
happened like a whole bunch ofyears ago, uh, it got so like
for a while people didn't reallycare about this because it's
like just people who are intochess like I'm always following
(34:02):
the world of chess drama, um,until elon musk got involved in
it and started tweeting about itand making comments and like
stirred up all this controversyaround it.
Now everyone.
Now everyone's involved.
Yeah, now everybody needs toknow about chess.
So, uh, yeah, jess and herpartner ryan end up doing some
interviews to understand, like,the world of the chess culture,
(34:27):
um, but it ends up beingbasically ryan just trying to
convince jess to like chess.
It's a really fun show.
Every episode kind of unpacks adifferent theme that's existing
in the world of chess.
But it's also a really fun justlike not examination.
Just it shows their dynamic asa couple and as like a chess
(34:47):
obsessed guy and a not so chessobsessed person, they just have
a really fun dynamic.
Uh, talking about this.
So that's another really goodindie podcast well, I, I love
chess, it's, it's oh, there yougo.
It's a great show.
It's a great show, xavier,you're gonna love it.
I should watch it or listen toit.
Emma (35:07):
Listen to it oh, this has been a fantastic interview, but
we go.
We have one more question.
What's the secret to a greatinterview just like this one?
Kattie (35:19):
Ooh, I mean, like you said, the confidence you got to
have confidence.
I think a great interviewfollows some sort of like maybe
narrative arc in some capacity.
I think a great interviewstarts with the best questions
first, because, especially inpodcasting, you want to keep
people around right from thejump.
(35:40):
And a great interview feelslike personal and like I don't
know personal to the guest andlike the interviewer actually
cares.
Yeah, those are all my tips.
Emma (35:57):
they're they're amazing tips there.
You've obviously been aroundthe block a few times a couple
of times yeah, definitely havethem well, thank you so much
this has just been an amazingtime, so eye-opening to the
world of podcasts.
I mean, you're obviously sopassionate and like just so
informed about the subject.
(36:17):
I think like people couldlisten to you talk for hours
about it.
It's, it's amazing.
Thank you so much this is thething.
Kattie (36:24):
I could talk about it for hours.
I don't know if people want tolisten to it, and just because I
can talk about things for hoursdoesn't mean I'm the best
person, so always listen todifferent perspectives.
Emma (36:35):
Thank you so much.
Xavier (36:36):
Thank you so much for your time.
We had a lot of fun.
Kattie (36:39):
Thank you guys.
Emma (36:43):
Thank you for listening and I know all the shows.
You probably listened to saythis, but if you enjoyed this
episode, please follow and ratethe podcast.
Xavier (36:50):
Also, we would love to connect with you and hear your
thoughts about our episodes.
You can find us on Instagram orvisit our website.
The links are in the show notes.
Thanks for tuning in.
Bye.
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