June 22, 2025 • 31 mins
Cut The Tie Podcast
Episode 274
What happens when a former police officer turns mental health advocate and entrepreneur? In this episode of Cut The Tie, host Thomas Helfrich speaks with Joe Smarro—CEO and Owner of Solution Point+—about the urgent need for emotional intelligence, leadership reform, and how the power of presence can change everything.
Joe shares his transformation from a decorated crisis negotiator to an advocate for change within public safety and corporate culture. Together, they explore how real transformation begins with inner work, vulnerability, and cutting ties to outdated systems of authority and success.
About Joe Smarro
Joe Smarro is the Owner and CEO of Solution Point+, a training and consulting company focused on mental health, leadership, and emotional intelligence. A former Marine and decorated member of the San Antonio Police Department's Mental Health Unit, Joe rose to national attention through the Emmy-nominated HBO documentary Ernie & Joe: Crisis Cops. Today, he travels globally, helping teams create cultures rooted in humanity and courage.
In this episode, Thomas and Joe discuss:
- The evolution from cop to consultant
Joe explains how his experience on the front lines of mental health crises inspired him to co-found a company dedicated to systemic change. - Cutting ties with emotional suppression
From the military to law enforcement, Joe reflects on how emotional armor becomes a trap—and why vulnerability is the real strength. - The power of emotional intelligence in leadership
Joe unpacks why the best leaders are present, emotionally aware, and willing to have hard conversations with grace. - Why police and corporate cultures need the same thing
Joe draws a powerful parallel between dysfunction in law enforcement and burnout in business—both demand new tools, not just new rules. - Challenging the "tough guy" mindset
Through storytelling and self-awareness, Joe offers a blueprint for how men can lead with heart, not just hardness.
Key Takeaways:
- Emotional armor can become your cage
Suppressing emotion might help you survive—but it keeps you from truly living. - Leadership is presence
Being fully present is one of the most underrated leadership tools in high-stress environments. - Inner work creates outer impact
True change in systems starts with personal responsibility and deep self-reflection. - Mental health is operational readiness
Teams that prioritize wellness aren't soft—they're strategic. - Transformation starts with courage
Whether it’s law enforcement or leadership, courage today means being real, not just resilient.
Connect with Joe Smarro:
🌐 Website: solutionpointplus.com
💼 LinkedIn: Joe Smarro
🎥 Featured in: Ernie & Joe: Crisis Cops (HBO)
Connect with Thomas Helfrich:
🐦 Twitter: @thelfrich
📘 Facebook Group: Cut the Tie
💼 LinkedIn: Thomas Helfrich
🌐 Website: cutthetie.com
📧 Email: t@instantlyrelevant.com
🚀 Ins
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Cut the Ties podcast.
I am your host, thomas Helfrich, and I'm on a mission to help
people in this world escrowedAmericans cut ties to whatever's
holding them back in life sothey can achieve success and the
success they've defined ontheir own terms.
Today I'm joined by Joe Smarrow.
Joe, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm doing real good man.
Thank you, I'm excited to behere.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I like your chair.
It's almost like you're in afluffy cloud.
Good man, thank you, I'mexcited to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I like your chair.
It's almost like you're in afluffy cloud.
I am floating right now, thomas, and yeah, this chair is very
comfortable and I don't knowwhat it is to recommend, but it
is nice.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Well, nice to meet you.
Take a moment, introduceyourself to the audience and
what it is you do, yeah, man.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
So Joe Smaro, I'm the CEO and co-founder of Solution
Point Plus.
We are a well, I guess we sayinternational now because we
crossed the border into Canada,but we are a training and
consulting firm that operates atthe intersection of public
safety and behavioral healthcare, and I'm also a combat
decorated Marine and a proudveteran and husband and father.
(00:57):
And, yeah, as far as thebusiness goes, we provide
training, mental health,de-escalation, wellness,
resiliency, and we have aboutseven deliverables that we offer
.
All I guess 95% is in person.
Right now.
We are looking at expanding ourvirtual options, but we have a
one day, a two day, a three dayand a five day offering based on
the training that's requested.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
That's great.
You do have competition orspace for this, so tell me about
why people pick you.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, so the competition?
I think one.
There's a pretty large chasmbetween our competitor and who
we are.
So we're I guess you would calla small boutique firm, in that
we were about 11 people withinthe business.
Right now, our largestcompetitor probably has a few
thousand and they've been aroundfor five decades has a few
(01:45):
thousand and they've been aroundfor five decades.
The reason people choose us isbecause we are nimble, we're
very fast to from like contractto deployment and also we are
the true essence of been there,done that.
While we do have evidence-basedand we have degrees, that is
nothing in which we lead ourtrainings.
That's all background stuff.
We live by a philosophy offacts tell and story sell, and
so we're very story ridden.
(02:06):
I personally have a lot ofresilience, a lot of childhood
trauma from sexual abuse,physical abuse, leaving home at
15, being a father, my senior ofhigh school joining the Marine
Corps because of that, and thentwo combat deployments, getting
out of the Marine Corps, joininga police department in San
Antonio, having an in-custodydeath my first year on, and then
about eight or nine years ofimmense suffering, using women
(02:29):
and pornography as my vice tojust survive.
I hated myself so much and wasan incredibly insecure man that
would use women to feel anything, but I would also be married,
and so that doesn't tend to gohand in hand.
And so, by the time I was 31, Ihad multiple divorces, four
kids from three women, payingthree grand a month in child
support on a cop salary.
(02:49):
And now, like I live my lifetruly from this mantra that
everything is my fault, I'vetaken complete ownership.
I'm very proud of therelationship I have now with all
my children, the youngest onebeing 13.
And 13 years ago is when Ireally pivoted and stepped into
my own truth.
And now, through all the workI've done for myself, I use that
(03:11):
to fuse all of our trainingcurriculum and to connect with
the audiences that we touch, andI do a lot of keynote speaking
as well.
I'm also an author.
My first book came out lastyear called Unarmed, and a lot
of those stories and tenets arein that book as well.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I thought you were describing Trump there for a
minute.
Like five divorces, fourdifferent kids.
Yeah, usually, I would like isthe Trump you know here today?
Yeah, I, it's not a politicalstatement, that's just alignment
of data, in fact, just throwingit up there.
Yeah, I think for sharing allthat.
I mean really like I always tryto get people to cry on the
show besides me.
So if I can pull that off today, I want you to know.
But it's not your way past thatnow and you're not crying more.
(03:49):
I've done a lot of crying in mylife.
Yes, true, it's like you have.
Yes, you know, what's amazingand beautiful in your story is
that a lot of people put abullet in the head.
After all that And'm done I andyou.
You said the other way.
I'm going to go make somethingin my life and you're still
young.
I mean, like you know you're,you haven't.
You know, probably, look at mewith early forties, maybe, I
(04:11):
don't know, like 40 years oreight.
You're young relative to likeyou know, it wasn't that far ago
.
So you tell me plenty of yourjourney in the tie you needed to
cut was all that how?
Just go to that.
I will actually back up first.
Tell me, was there an actualmoment?
Was it the birth of your son,or is there an actual moment?
You're like that's it.
(04:31):
I've truly hit the lowest ofrocks and bottoms that I could
possibly go with now.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, so, and two things.
First is I'm definitely notimmune to the suicidality.
I've been suicidal since I was15 and it's been something that
has truly, like, plagued my life.
Thank God I have not made thatdecision, but the thing that
really woke me up I remember itwas my second wife was leaving
me and I had cheated.
I got caught and she was like Ihate you for what you've done
(05:00):
and like something'slegitimately wrong with you.
Like, like, truly likesomething is wrong with you.
And I remember, as she was liketaking the kid and leaving, I
was sitting there and I was likeokay, I, like I have this is
very binary for me Like I'msitting in my I can picture in
my townhouse and I'm staring atmy gun belt and I'm still a
police officer at the time andI'm like, okay, I either need to
(05:22):
a commit to what she's sayingis true and something is wrong
with me and go to the VA and askfor help, even though in my
mind, like all the stigma ofbeing a Marine and being a man
and being a cop and all this oflike you know, I have all my
limbs, I'm not burnt, like Ihave no physical ailments, like
just suck it up Right, like quitquit being a week.
Suck it up Right Like quit,quit being a week.
(05:49):
Yeah, and so it was.
It was like I either need tokill myself and just be done
with this or I need to walk intothe VA and just say like, yeah,
I don't know what, butsomething is wrong.
Now, luckily, I chose that and Iwent to the VA 13 years ago,
cause that was, that was myfourth child.
So it wasn't like I had a kidand it changed my life Like.
No, I was.
I was to be honest with you andI love my children.
They know I love them and Itell them, but like I was tired
(06:14):
of having kids because none ofthem were planned.
And when you are living like anidiot and you just are out
there, you know, living thebachelor life, shit's going to
happen.
And so, yeah, I, I love mychildren, but none of them were
planning.
So they all came with a lot oflike heartache and pain and like
not being born into therelationship that I'm actually
in, and so it took a long timeto get there.
But I walked into the VA.
I said, hey, I don't knowwhat's up.
I guess something's wrong withme, according to my ex-wife, uh,
(06:35):
I need help.
And so they were like, well,let's get into it.
And they just started talkingto me about my story and my
childhood and they were likeJesus man, like did you know
that with your childhood trauma,with any combat exposure, you
were 300 times more likely todevelop PTSD?
And I was like, well then, whydid they even let me join?
And they're like, oh, becausewe don't actually screen for
that.
Like, yeah, we don't care aboutyour childhood trauma, we just
(06:57):
want to know that you can dosome pushups, pull ups and hold
the gun.
And so I was like, oh, that'sinteresting.
And so then you quickly realizethat, because they don't screen
for a lot of people that comeinto the military, we're only
compounding and exacerbating thetrauma they come in with.
It's the same in firstresponders, and so it
exacerbates a lot of thesesymptoms of trauma unprocessed,
(07:18):
ultimately leading up to where,if people can't get to the place
where they're going to A acceptlook, you did everything you
had to do as a child to survive.
You survived it, but now thosestructures you created to
survive childhood no longerserve you.
So now you have to unlearn alot of things.
You have to create the identityyou want to be true in your
life, and then you have toviolently execute until that
(07:39):
becomes a reality.
Anything short of that is justan excuse.
And you're wanting to projectand blame someone else for why
you are the way you are, and youcan do that.
That's your right, but it'snever going to serve you and
it's never going to fulfill you.
It's going to be miserable, andI was that for many years.
Now that I'm on the other sideof ownership, I have incredible
freedom in my life, because whenmy life is going awesome and I
(08:00):
grow a seven figure business outof nothing, with no MBA, no, no
background, and I don't, Idon't know what the hell I'm
doing and yet was able to grow amultimillion dollar business,
all from being passionate aboutpeople believing in the things I
say, learning and actually nothaving an ego to say like yeah,
I'm not, like no, no, this is mybaby.
Tell me how amazing my baby is.
(08:21):
No, I pay people to tell me howugly my baby is.
I've paid people like AlexHormozy and Tom Bilyeu to poke
holes in my business and say,like dude, you're an idiot, why
would you do it this way I'mlike I have no idea because I
truly don't know what the hellI'm doing.
So I pay to get feedback tohelp me level up, and that was a
big difference to take me frombeing a one entrepreneur to an
(08:41):
entrepreneur and nowunderstanding that, oh, this is
just a game and there's layersto this game and there's a lot
of pay to play in this game andyour proximity is your power and
so it's all these things oflike.
Surround yourself with theright people, don't be afraid to
ask for introductions and don'tbe afraid to ask questions,
like if you're the smartestperson in the room, as they say,
then you're in the wrong rooms.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Well, and always be in the room too, right?
That's the other kind of pieceof that.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, you know we need to make decisions, you
gotta be sure.
So I got to ask who's better,tom or Alex?
Uh, two very different styles.
Uh, I, I truly respect both,but I, tom Tom is my number one.
Alex makes no mistake about it.
He's an absolute savage when itcomes to like he wants to be a
multi-billionaire.
That's his focus.
It's all about EBITDA, it's allabout margins.
It's all about making moneyover everything else.
(09:30):
Tom, while he's already abillionaire and had his exit
from Quest, I actually got to goto his house and do like a
mastermind and sit with him foreight hours at his table with
seven other business owners, andI see more compassion on his
side.
Again, I don't think Alex iswrong for this, but I just think
he's very focused because he'sstill on the climb.
I think Tom has reached hisgoals and now he's like reverse
(09:56):
engineering and I also love tome like.
Alex is the business savant.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Tom is the mindset a savant, and that happens to be
really, really good at businessand understanding first
principles thinking you know,it's interesting and I always
wonder like the guy has billionsand why he would still be in
the weeds doing stuff.
And I'm like, like to me it'slike, you know, that mindset is
obviously like there's a passionand drive there that's way
(10:22):
beyond.
When you hear that in thatworld and I love that you've
gone, do that, I will tell you.
I asked that selfishly becauseI've I've really struggled to
find mentors I could trust, andnot that I'm always the smartest
one in the room, but I oftencan see that the person who's
claiming to be, who wants to bea coach or mentor, is not Right
and so, yeah, so I've reallystruggled with this.
(10:44):
I'm 49 and I'm like man, I knowI need one still, I just can.
So that's why I ask, becauseI'm like all right, but then the
Alex personality would probablydrive me crazy, but like all
right, but then the alexpersonality would probably drive
me crazy, but at the same timeit's probably the one I would
have to be near because it's theone that's like just drive,
drive, drive, drive.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
But anyway, I was grateful to have both.
But yes, it's, they're verydifferent.
Just energy aura, um, they'relike tom is way more relaxed and
just you know, matter of fact,and alex is just I like.
I asked him personally, likewhat do you do when you're not
working, like for fun, likewhere do you and lay?
Personally, like what do you dowhen you're not working, like
for fun, like where do you andLayla go on vacation?
(11:20):
What do you do for fun?
He was like no, like even if wetake a vacation, we're still
working, like that's what weenjoy.
To me, this is fun.
We're never off.
And I'm like, yeah, that's notappealing to me.
I don't want to be abillionaire, right, like I want
to be sneaky wealthy, I want tonot worry about money, but I
don't want to be a billionaireand I really I like a chill life
.
I want to golf five days a week, I want to spend time with
people I love and I want to keepspeaking, write the next book
(11:42):
and do do a podcast and likejust chill out.
That's the life I want and sothat's the thing I'm striving
for.
It's very different than likeworld domination yeah,
absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
There's some of my clients are like hell, I took a
week off last year and it ruinedlike my quarter.
I'm like, yeah, I do not wantyour business.
Uh, oh here, all right, I'mhappy you like it, I don't want
it.
I'm one who's like, um, I'lleven say I just don't want to
work my money.
So, like you know, I golf fivedays a week.
Even I get bored of that.
I love golf, but I mean I'llthrow fishing in there maybe
occasionally, or just sit athome watch Netflix, but I all
(12:16):
right.
Thank you for all that.
By the way, today you'vecovered so much.
I don't think I have to ask aton of questions, so I
appreciate just the openness andsharing.
I feel like you've done thisbefore.
Maybe it was part of writing abook.
What are you most grateful fortoday, though?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
The fact that I have not had to go back to a nine to
five when I left the policedepartment.
So I left at 15 years, Iresigned, I didn't retire, I
didn't have a pension and I hada lot of people other cops,
people in my circle telling mewhat an idiot I was, that I
wasted 15 years, why would I notjust do five more years?
And I was like, yeah, but I'mjust not happy.
(12:52):
And they're like, yeah, none ofus are, but we don't leave.
And I'm like, well, that's ahorrible way to live your life.
And but I won't lie, like I wasterrified that what if this
doesn't work?
Like what if I don't have whatit takes?
What if this fails and I haveto eat crow and go back to that
agency or another one?
Because that's, I can easilyjust go back to a police
(13:16):
department and like fall back inrank.
And my goal was to not have todo that.
And it was a two-year goal,because you're only allowed to
leave for up to two years andthen after that you're basically
gone, you're obsolete, you haveto go back to the academy and
now I've aged out.
So now it's like this is all ornothing.
And if, because I can't go backto policing, then it's like,
well, what would I even do?
So that's always been in theback of my mind.
I truly am most grateful that Iget to wake up every day and do
(13:37):
the thing that I love.
What I tell people is if anyoneasked me not that they do, but
if anyone asked me like Joe, inyour opinion, like what's the
secret to life?
I would say find a hobby, likesomething you actually enjoy,
turn it into a skill, like tryreally hard to be in the top 1%
and then learn to monetize it.
If you do those things likethat to me is freedom, that to
me is like a beautiful life.
(13:58):
That to me is immense gratitude.
Now, that's high level, macro,and then, honestly, on the micro
side of it, it really like notto be cliche, but I'm grateful
every day that I just that I getto like wake up and be housed,
employed again, pay myself asalary doing the work that I
love doing and that, like I canput food on my table, like it's
really simple.
(14:18):
And because I think we live ina world where people are so
distracted and overwhelmed and Isee so much like collective
suffering, I think we've lostperspective and we've become
inundated with things that don'tactually matter, and we're
consuming so much of otherpeople's lives and experiences
that we overwhelm ourselves and,I think, take for granted
(14:41):
everything that is right infront of us.
And so my gratitude is like oneof my foundations of life, and
so I just live truly gratefully.
When I wake up, it's like it'spart of my morning routine.
I wear this compass Thomas onmy wrist.
It's my like true Northreminder.
It never comes off, and everyday I wake up I start with three
things like reflection when amI?
Why am I here?
(15:01):
Who contributed to this?
Especially cause I'm on theroad about 20, 25 days a month.
And then I go into my gratitudethree things in the last 24
hours that can never repeat, andit forces me to find three good
moments in every 24 hour period, and so I'm trained in my brain
to find good in everything, nomatter how stressful the
business is like oh, we just hadour worst quarter.
(15:24):
Uh, in fact, real story, mybusiness is eight years old.
This is the first year 2025that we're going to have.
As of right now, halfway in,we're going to have a down
revenue year.
It's the first time we were at100, 120% every year, every year
, every year.
Now we're actually losingrevenue because we lost a big
client in the state of Iowa andthis is the first time where
(15:45):
we're down and it excites me, itactually is exciting me,
because I'm like, okay, cool, weget to now reset, we can reset
and reorient and then look atlike, how do?
What do we want to do next?
What skill do I need to learnto develop?
What client do we want topenetrate next?
How can we go about this?
And I don't see it as a problem, I see it as a blessing.
So even in something like that,I just uh, gratitude is a huge
(16:05):
part of my life.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Well, when something like you know lose a big client,
you definitely feels like it'shappening to you as quickly as
you can pivot.
Okay, it happened for me.
What am I going to do from it?
And what I typically found isand this is a big thing because
this happens to everybody you'regoing to lose a client at some
point.
It makes you go look at whereyou've been complacent, where
you could have done better toretain that client, or you can
(16:28):
expand the other way, and thoseare usually the opportunities to
kind of get you off your ass,to go look at it slightly
different and say what was thevalue we did?
Or what do we?
How do we know?
How do we go leverage that?
To go trade with paperclip, isthat?
That's where I find theexcitement, in that it's like
all right, I gotta, I gottahustle, because if it comes easy
and everyone's coming to youall the time, then it's like it
just feels transactional.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Um, whereas the I like the idea of starting
something new or building a newcurriculum, or having a new idea
that we can learn to monetizethat doesn't exist yet and
(17:09):
that's what we've done.
And to your point, like, yeah,right away I was like, oh, this
sucks, this is happening to us.
This isn't fair.
Then I look at cause.
It was actually like apolitical, bureaucratic decision
as a state of Iowa and theyredistrict and so all 12 of our
actual CEO clients we've workedwith they all lose their jobs
July 1st of this year.
So I'm like, well, I can sithere and feel bad for myself.
(17:31):
I actually have a ton ofempathy for what they're
actually going through and so Ireally feel bad for all of our
clients in Iowa that are havingto endure this change.
And simultaneously it's likeall right, this gives us a
unique opportunity to leveragethe eight years of traction we
built with them, and now we cango and see what we can build and
do it somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
And listen, I get.
I look at 12 people going outin industry.
It could be 12 new clients thatsame size potentially.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah, and exactly that Cause they're not going to
like, while they might be losingtheir jobs, they're not going
to stay unemployed forever.
And some of them are talkingabout going to other States and
I'm like, yeah, that's a greatidea.
You sure, If all people are indifferent States right now, yeah
, and and and truly like we havea great relationship with.
I mean, we've worked with allof them, but we're really close
with like four of them and yeah,if any four of those land on
(18:22):
their feet somewhere and haveclout, like for sure they would
advocate for us and bring us in.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
So it's kind of like uh it's, it's a tree that bared
fruit that has been split intofour or five and like now, you
got to wait for it to kind ofgrow up and get the more fruit
and now you should have a lotmore.
But like.
But this is where I also like,sometimes go with.
I find when people go those,those individuals are going
through some tough times.
Right now they're in a, they'rein a low and they're in a,
they're in a state of disdisorientation.
(18:47):
I just try to be there with forthem as a friend, even if it's
been like our businessacquaintance, like hey, what can
I do to help right now?
Is there anything I can do?
Because that's what's going toactually carry more than the
work that you did have anauthentic be there for someone.
Because someone was there foryou, you're going to be there
for somebody else.
Um, I know I said and I thinkanybody listening right, that's
when a client's going throughsomething like that, take off
(19:09):
the business piece and ask themhow you actually help them as a
person, because sometimes I meansome people, I need food for my
family or like, and that canhappen.
You're like all right, well,can I send over groceries for
the week or something like youdon't know, like where people
might be check.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
To check in in one week you have to work is a big
deal, and so anyway it's hugeand I just to piggyback real
quick to us, I think, becauseI've seen this in my short time
where, especially in thegovernment contract space, um,
we've worked with a client wherewe were like the the secondary,
or the the subcontractor on itand the prime was very buttoned
(19:46):
up, very proper, and I'm likeI'm high relational and so I'm
like like this is one of myphilosophies and we teach it in
de-escalation.
I read about in the book, butit's always like focus on the
person, not the problem, and soI'm like, yeah, yeah, I know for
sure, like the only reasonwe're having this conversation
is because you have a need andwe have a solution.
Now we're going to get to that.
(20:06):
But like, who are you?
How long you been doing this?
What do you care about?
What matters to you?
What would you like to seehappen?
When you focus on the personalside and this is where we thrive
been as successful as it hasbeen with no marketing.
We do no marketing spend.
It's just truly been all wordof mouth to grow from $9,000 in
(20:26):
2017 to two and a half millionlast year, and it was just from
people advocating for us andthen being relational, so that
you don't feel like this is atransaction.
In fact, you want us to winbecause of how much we want you
to win.
And we've had clients like, oh,it's the end of the budget
season, we've got this moneyleft, like, hey, is there
something you can just likethrow at us so we can just throw
(20:47):
you this money?
And I'm like, in what worlddoes this happen?
But because they're again trulythey understand that we value
them, not as a transactionpartner and just as a business
relationship, but like thehumanity side of this really
does matter to us as our company.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah, we have a couple of our biggest customers
are in the government space likesame chasing three letter
agencies.
Like it's long, long salescycles.
One thing I will tell youanybody else listening is you
should always invest in thelongterm play on the brand side
of the marketing, because whenyou need to be known for an rfp,
it's too late and so it's likeyou know specifically you want
(21:23):
to be the one helping write therfp right, as you know already.
But it's like that.
Anybody out there.
Make that investment if you'regoing to be in that government
space, because, like the ones wework with, even for two, three
years and it's paying.
The trees were planted and theywatered it and they paid for it
and now it's got lots of fruitbecause everyone knows that's
where you know, so we can takethat one offline.
I, I get that space yeah some,at some point your your uh
(21:47):
generals and colonels you knewgo away yeah yeah they, uh, they
start retiring out.
They're like, oh shit, who'sthe new guy?
He's got his own guys, allright.
So rapid fire question for you.
I've been asking this in thereverse today what's the worst
business advice you've evergotten?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
oh, the worst business advice is, ah, I would
say, fake it till you make it.
I don't like that at all.
I think authenticity matters.
And, yeah, if you're out therefaking it because, again, I
think it's like, it's almostlike your credit score and your
(22:26):
weight, I get it takes a longtime to establish, but you can
ruin it very quickly.
And, and so you know, one ortwo small mistakes can truly
tarnish a brand and reputation.
Uh, and so the idea of fake itlike I, I will tell people, like
no, I don't know how to do that.
Or this is a new space to me.
Or like no, I'm not sure whatyou mean by that.
Instead of pretending trying toimpress someone, I'll own that.
(22:48):
Like yeah, I don't know thatspace, but I'm happy to like
learn um.
But.
So I think faking until youmake it is probably the worst
advice let's do that on teamsfor For the military.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
You're on teams Like, yeah, I'm good, my pay call
will be we're good For fun.
Exactly, yeah, I'll be back.
Do you know what that means?
Anyway, that wouldn't go wellIf you had to start over today
and you can go back to any pointin your timeline which you have
some juicy timeline points I'mcurious how you're gonna answer
(23:22):
this one.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
When would you go back?
What?
What do you do differently?
Yeah, that's, that is tough forme because, again, I like I not
because it's convenient to mylife, but I really believe this
to be a true statement, which isI've learned to become grateful
for the things I wish neverhappened and like it's like
everything in like this.
(23:43):
I have this tattoo right here,thomas, that says Amor Fati, and
it's the Latin of love, of fate, and I really believe if
something's happening in yourlife, it's supposed to happen
because it's it's a, it's alesson, and everything that
happens to you is either acoffin or a classroom type thing
.
And so to go back and like undoa mistake would mean that maybe
I would be in a different place.
I'm in now and I'm not tryingto skirt the question, but if I
(24:05):
had to answer gun to head, thenI would say probably 2017, when
I started my business.
I don't know that I would havewaited three years, because the
truth is in 2020, uh, when weleft, we grew, uh like about
900% the first year we went fulltime, and so then it's like why
(24:26):
would I, why would I wait?
If I did this three yearsearlier.
Where would I be now threeyears later?
And so that probably would beas like I would.
I would really think, um, Iwould probably start much
different in the business.
I would have started higher, Iwouldn't have played so small.
One of the biggest lessons I'velearned in my own business is
learning the value of what youoffer.
(24:48):
Just for context, to give youan apples to apples, one of the
trainings we offer right now,for example, it's a five-day
training.
Right, we used to do that.
Five-day training, twofacilitators plus our travel,
five-day training.
We would do it for threethousand dollars, all in that's
cost and everything.
We now will charge thirtythousand for the same thing, and
(25:11):
I have a lot of mentors tellingme that it's offensive, how low
that is and that's a horriblerate and that I should be
charging twenty five thousand aday.
But because we work in publicsafety, they're oftentimes very,
very we'll just say, broke, andso they don't have the money.
But even then, though, like togo from a $3,000 product to a
$30,000 product, nothing changedexcept for my ask, and they
(25:34):
just kept saying yes, so like.
That's just one example of likeno-transcript and being able to
(26:01):
like easily justify why wecharge what we charge for our
services.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah Well, you know I love that.
You have to uh, uh, throw outthere what you're worth, and
sometimes you just throw theturd on the table and we'll see
if anybody cleans it up, andthat's what you do and I know,
yeah Good, I'm glad you did.
The other piece is when it'snot, you know, when you do that
to an entrepreneur, it's thesame suit, different pocket.
(26:28):
When it's someone else's budget, they don't care.
This guy just don't get mefired.
And so knowing that determinesprice quite a bit.
So last question, if there's aquestion I should have asked you
and I didn't what was that?
Speaker 2 (26:45):
question.
How do you answer it?
Man?
This is good, Thomas.
I feel underprepared, which ison me, because I have a feeling
that's something you askeveryone and I wish I thought
about this.
So you do a good episode we'rejust seeing there.
Here's my, here's my, likescouts, honor, word of mouth,
honor to you is cause when yousaid, when you said YouTube as
(27:06):
well, when we were chattingbefore, like that I go there a
lot for things and I'm a visualmore than just audio, I am gonna
, cause I'm just fascinated withyou, your work, your other
guests, and so I will belistening to your episodes,
although I didn't do itbeforehand.
So a question that you shouldhave asked me, but different,
(27:29):
yeah.
So I guess, what is one, thecounter of, maybe not even to
the worst business advice, butlike, what is one piece of
advice that you think could helpall people?
And my answer to that would beand I'm I and I'm going to quote
Tom Bilyeu here, because again,this really resonated with me
and I would say, like was one ofthose one degree shifts in my
life but he says the only thingin life that matters is how you
(27:51):
feel about yourself when you'reby yourself, and again, it's
about minimizing distractionsand, as an entrepreneur, to make
it about business, if that'smuch of your audience, then the
truth is is that every day, youwake up into a room of a hundred
doors and your job is to close99 of them.
I think too many of us thinkit's about adding, we think it's
an addition If I just addedmore, if I just got more, if I
just had more, if I just didmore.
(28:11):
But the reality is it's aboutminimizing, it's about reducing,
it's about subtracting and ifyou would just close all those
doors.
It ties into this idea because Ithink again, someone that works
in the mental health spacethere's so much suffering that
is evident all around, and Iimagine when those people
because the second part to this,which is not his, it's mine,
(28:33):
but the scariest place in theworld for man to be is alone in
their thoughts, and so how doyou feel about yourself when
you're by yourself?
And I hate being by myself alonein my head, that's a recipe for
suicidality, for what I callthe four plagues of the
entrepreneur, which is uh, andforgive me I'll explain, but
just chips, tits, Netflix andsprints, and that's food or
alcohol.
(28:53):
Boobs meaning sex, extramaritalaffairs, pornography, uh,
Netflixream Time, doom scrollingYouTube, TikTok, Instagram, and
then even the sprints going tothe gym, working out excessively
to avoid your family or doingthe thing you're supposed to be
doing for your business.
To me, in my experience ofhospitalizing a lot of people,
those four plagues create a lotof problems, and it's all in an
(29:17):
attempt to avoid having to sitwith yourself.
And until you can learn to lovethe company you're in when
you're alone, your life is goingto be incredibly more difficult
than it needs to be.
So that would be my advice.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
I could have done a whole like podcast on just a
whole like series.
Like we get it, we'll breakthat, um, but once you've been
here, joe, you get to come back.
So I do look forward to, uh,interviewing you again in six
months.
Take a touch base.
That's kind of the thing we dois, once you're on, and you
don't suck which you didn't,which is great.
Thank you, man.
Thank you Tell me and everybodyelse how to get ahold of you
first and who should get aholdof you.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Yeah, so two websites joesmarrowcom is personal
website, business website,solutionpointpluscom.
And then, as far as socials go,instagram, joe Smarrow,
linkedin, joe Smarrow, facebook,joe Smarrow.
It's all on Joe Smarrow.
And then we also have a companysocials as well.
But I would love, if youconnected with me, send me a DM
that you heard me on the cut thetie podcast.
(30:10):
I'd love to send you a book.
If you do that, I'll sign itand do it for free.
And in that order, just becauseof what we're growing right now
, I would say Instagram, thenLinkedIn, but yeah,
joesmarrowcom andsolutionpointpluscom are the
best ways to get ahold of me orthe business.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Awesome, Thank you.
Thanks for coming on today.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Thank you brother Appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Everybody's been here before.
Thanks for coming back.
If this is the second time ormore, you know you've been here,
keep coming back.
And if this is the first, Ihope we hooked you, because you
made it to this point you'redefinitely coming back.
So, thanks, get out there, gocut a tie to something holding
you back To find that success inyour own terms.
You know it's how you'rechasing.
Thanks for listening.
Welcome to the Cut the Ties podcast.
I am your host, thomas Helfrich, and I'm on a mission to help
people in this world escrowedAmericans cut ties to whatever's
holding them back in life sothey can achieve success and the
success they've defined ontheir own terms.
Today I'm joined by Joe Smarrow.
Joe, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm doing real good man.
Thank you, I'm excited to behere.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I like your chair.
It's almost like you're in afluffy cloud.
Good man, thank you, I'mexcited to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I like your chair.
It's almost like you're in afluffy cloud.
I am floating right now, thomas, and yeah, this chair is very
comfortable and I don't knowwhat it is to recommend, but it
is nice.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Well, nice to meet you.
Take a moment, introduceyourself to the audience and
what it is you do, yeah, man.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
So Joe Smaro, I'm the CEO and co-founder of Solution
Point Plus.
We are a well, I guess we sayinternational now because we
crossed the border into Canada,but we are a training and
consulting firm that operates atthe intersection of public
safety and behavioral healthcare, and I'm also a combat
decorated Marine and a proudveteran and husband and father.
(00:57):
And, yeah, as far as thebusiness goes, we provide
training, mental health,de-escalation, wellness,
resiliency, and we have aboutseven deliverables that we offer
.
All I guess 95% is in person.
Right now.
We are looking at expanding ourvirtual options, but we have a
one day, a two day, a three dayand a five day offering based on
the training that's requested.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
That's great.
You do have competition orspace for this, so tell me about
why people pick you.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, so the competition?
I think one.
There's a pretty large chasmbetween our competitor and who
we are.
So we're I guess you would calla small boutique firm, in that
we were about 11 people withinthe business.
Right now, our largestcompetitor probably has a few
thousand and they've been aroundfor five decades has a few
(01:45):
thousand and they've been aroundfor five decades.
The reason people choose us isbecause we are nimble, we're
very fast to from like contractto deployment and also we are
the true essence of been there,done that.
While we do have evidence-basedand we have degrees, that is
nothing in which we lead ourtrainings.
That's all background stuff.
We live by a philosophy offacts tell and story sell, and
so we're very story ridden.
(02:06):
I personally have a lot ofresilience, a lot of childhood
trauma from sexual abuse,physical abuse, leaving home at
15, being a father, my senior ofhigh school joining the Marine
Corps because of that, and thentwo combat deployments, getting
out of the Marine Corps, joininga police department in San
Antonio, having an in-custodydeath my first year on, and then
about eight or nine years ofimmense suffering, using women
(02:29):
and pornography as my vice tojust survive.
I hated myself so much and wasan incredibly insecure man that
would use women to feel anything, but I would also be married,
and so that doesn't tend to gohand in hand.
And so, by the time I was 31, Ihad multiple divorces, four
kids from three women, payingthree grand a month in child
support on a cop salary.
(02:49):
And now, like I live my lifetruly from this mantra that
everything is my fault, I'vetaken complete ownership.
I'm very proud of therelationship I have now with all
my children, the youngest onebeing 13.
And 13 years ago is when Ireally pivoted and stepped into
my own truth.
And now, through all the workI've done for myself, I use that
(03:11):
to fuse all of our trainingcurriculum and to connect with
the audiences that we touch, andI do a lot of keynote speaking
as well.
I'm also an author.
My first book came out lastyear called Unarmed, and a lot
of those stories and tenets arein that book as well.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I thought you were describing Trump there for a
minute.
Like five divorces, fourdifferent kids.
Yeah, usually, I would like isthe Trump you know here today?
Yeah, I, it's not a politicalstatement, that's just alignment
of data, in fact, just throwingit up there.
Yeah, I think for sharing allthat.
I mean really like I always tryto get people to cry on the
show besides me.
So if I can pull that off today, I want you to know.
But it's not your way past thatnow and you're not crying more.
(03:49):
I've done a lot of crying in mylife.
Yes, true, it's like you have.
Yes, you know, what's amazingand beautiful in your story is
that a lot of people put abullet in the head.
After all that And'm done I andyou.
You said the other way.
I'm going to go make somethingin my life and you're still
young.
I mean, like you know you're,you haven't.
You know, probably, look at mewith early forties, maybe, I
(04:11):
don't know, like 40 years oreight.
You're young relative to likeyou know, it wasn't that far ago
.
So you tell me plenty of yourjourney in the tie you needed to
cut was all that how?
Just go to that.
I will actually back up first.
Tell me, was there an actualmoment?
Was it the birth of your son,or is there an actual moment?
You're like that's it.
(04:31):
I've truly hit the lowest ofrocks and bottoms that I could
possibly go with now.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, so, and two things.
First is I'm definitely notimmune to the suicidality.
I've been suicidal since I was15 and it's been something that
has truly, like, plagued my life.
Thank God I have not made thatdecision, but the thing that
really woke me up I remember itwas my second wife was leaving
me and I had cheated.
I got caught and she was like Ihate you for what you've done
(05:00):
and like something'slegitimately wrong with you.
Like, like, truly likesomething is wrong with you.
And I remember, as she was liketaking the kid and leaving, I
was sitting there and I was likeokay, I, like I have this is
very binary for me Like I'msitting in my I can picture in
my townhouse and I'm staring atmy gun belt and I'm still a
police officer at the time andI'm like, okay, I either need to
(05:22):
a commit to what she's sayingis true and something is wrong
with me and go to the VA and askfor help, even though in my
mind, like all the stigma ofbeing a Marine and being a man
and being a cop and all this oflike you know, I have all my
limbs, I'm not burnt, like Ihave no physical ailments, like
just suck it up Right, like quitquit being a week.
Suck it up Right Like quit,quit being a week.
(05:49):
Yeah, and so it was.
It was like I either need tokill myself and just be done
with this or I need to walk intothe VA and just say like, yeah,
I don't know what, butsomething is wrong.
Now, luckily, I chose that and Iwent to the VA 13 years ago,
cause that was, that was myfourth child.
So it wasn't like I had a kidand it changed my life Like.
No, I was.
I was to be honest with you andI love my children.
They know I love them and Itell them, but like I was tired
(06:14):
of having kids because none ofthem were planned.
And when you are living like anidiot and you just are out
there, you know, living thebachelor life, shit's going to
happen.
And so, yeah, I, I love mychildren, but none of them were
planning.
So they all came with a lot oflike heartache and pain and like
not being born into therelationship that I'm actually
in, and so it took a long timeto get there.
But I walked into the VA.
I said, hey, I don't knowwhat's up.
I guess something's wrong withme, according to my ex-wife, uh,
(06:35):
I need help.
And so they were like, well,let's get into it.
And they just started talkingto me about my story and my
childhood and they were likeJesus man, like did you know
that with your childhood trauma,with any combat exposure, you
were 300 times more likely todevelop PTSD?
And I was like, well then, whydid they even let me join?
And they're like, oh, becausewe don't actually screen for
that.
Like, yeah, we don't care aboutyour childhood trauma, we just
(06:57):
want to know that you can dosome pushups, pull ups and hold
the gun.
And so I was like, oh, that'sinteresting.
And so then you quickly realizethat, because they don't screen
for a lot of people that comeinto the military, we're only
compounding and exacerbating thetrauma they come in with.
It's the same in firstresponders, and so it
exacerbates a lot of thesesymptoms of trauma unprocessed,
(07:18):
ultimately leading up to where,if people can't get to the place
where they're going to A acceptlook, you did everything you
had to do as a child to survive.
You survived it, but now thosestructures you created to
survive childhood no longerserve you.
So now you have to unlearn alot of things.
You have to create the identityyou want to be true in your
life, and then you have toviolently execute until that
(07:39):
becomes a reality.
Anything short of that is justan excuse.
And you're wanting to projectand blame someone else for why
you are the way you are, and youcan do that.
That's your right, but it'snever going to serve you and
it's never going to fulfill you.
It's going to be miserable, andI was that for many years.
Now that I'm on the other sideof ownership, I have incredible
freedom in my life, because whenmy life is going awesome and I
(08:00):
grow a seven figure business outof nothing, with no MBA, no, no
background, and I don't, Idon't know what the hell I'm
doing and yet was able to grow amultimillion dollar business,
all from being passionate aboutpeople believing in the things I
say, learning and actually nothaving an ego to say like yeah,
I'm not, like no, no, this is mybaby.
Tell me how amazing my baby is.
(08:21):
No, I pay people to tell me howugly my baby is.
I've paid people like AlexHormozy and Tom Bilyeu to poke
holes in my business and say,like dude, you're an idiot, why
would you do it this way I'mlike I have no idea because I
truly don't know what the hellI'm doing.
So I pay to get feedback tohelp me level up, and that was a
big difference to take me frombeing a one entrepreneur to an
(08:41):
entrepreneur and nowunderstanding that, oh, this is
just a game and there's layersto this game and there's a lot
of pay to play in this game andyour proximity is your power and
so it's all these things oflike.
Surround yourself with theright people, don't be afraid to
ask for introductions and don'tbe afraid to ask questions,
like if you're the smartestperson in the room, as they say,
then you're in the wrong rooms.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Well, and always be in the room too, right?
That's the other kind of pieceof that.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, you know we need to make decisions, you
gotta be sure.
So I got to ask who's better,tom or Alex?
Uh, two very different styles.
Uh, I, I truly respect both,but I, tom Tom is my number one.
Alex makes no mistake about it.
He's an absolute savage when itcomes to like he wants to be a
multi-billionaire.
That's his focus.
It's all about EBITDA, it's allabout margins.
It's all about making moneyover everything else.
(09:30):
Tom, while he's already abillionaire and had his exit
from Quest, I actually got to goto his house and do like a
mastermind and sit with him foreight hours at his table with
seven other business owners, andI see more compassion on his
side.
Again, I don't think Alex iswrong for this, but I just think
he's very focused because he'sstill on the climb.
I think Tom has reached hisgoals and now he's like reverse
(09:56):
engineering and I also love tome like.
Alex is the business savant.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Tom is the mindset a savant, and that happens to be
really, really good at businessand understanding first
principles thinking you know,it's interesting and I always
wonder like the guy has billionsand why he would still be in
the weeds doing stuff.
And I'm like, like to me it'slike, you know, that mindset is
obviously like there's a passionand drive there that's way
(10:22):
beyond.
When you hear that in thatworld and I love that you've
gone, do that, I will tell you.
I asked that selfishly becauseI've I've really struggled to
find mentors I could trust, andnot that I'm always the smartest
one in the room, but I oftencan see that the person who's
claiming to be, who wants to bea coach or mentor, is not Right
and so, yeah, so I've reallystruggled with this.
(10:44):
I'm 49 and I'm like man, I knowI need one still, I just can.
So that's why I ask, becauseI'm like all right, but then the
Alex personality would probablydrive me crazy, but like all
right, but then the alexpersonality would probably drive
me crazy, but at the same timeit's probably the one I would
have to be near because it's theone that's like just drive,
drive, drive, drive.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
But anyway, I was grateful to have both.
But yes, it's, they're verydifferent.
Just energy aura, um, they'relike tom is way more relaxed and
just you know, matter of fact,and alex is just I like.
I asked him personally, likewhat do you do when you're not
working, like for fun, likewhere do you and lay?
Personally, like what do you dowhen you're not working, like
for fun, like where do you andLayla go on vacation?
(11:20):
What do you do for fun?
He was like no, like even if wetake a vacation, we're still
working, like that's what weenjoy.
To me, this is fun.
We're never off.
And I'm like, yeah, that's notappealing to me.
I don't want to be abillionaire, right, like I want
to be sneaky wealthy, I want tonot worry about money, but I
don't want to be a billionaireand I really I like a chill life
.
I want to golf five days a week, I want to spend time with
people I love and I want to keepspeaking, write the next book
(11:42):
and do do a podcast and likejust chill out.
That's the life I want and sothat's the thing I'm striving
for.
It's very different than likeworld domination yeah,
absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
There's some of my clients are like hell, I took a
week off last year and it ruinedlike my quarter.
I'm like, yeah, I do not wantyour business.
Uh, oh here, all right, I'mhappy you like it, I don't want
it.
I'm one who's like, um, I'lleven say I just don't want to
work my money.
So, like you know, I golf fivedays a week.
Even I get bored of that.
I love golf, but I mean I'llthrow fishing in there maybe
occasionally, or just sit athome watch Netflix, but I all
(12:16):
right.
Thank you for all that.
By the way, today you'vecovered so much.
I don't think I have to ask aton of questions, so I
appreciate just the openness andsharing.
I feel like you've done thisbefore.
Maybe it was part of writing abook.
What are you most grateful fortoday, though?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
The fact that I have not had to go back to a nine to
five when I left the policedepartment.
So I left at 15 years, Iresigned, I didn't retire, I
didn't have a pension and I hada lot of people other cops,
people in my circle telling mewhat an idiot I was, that I
wasted 15 years, why would I notjust do five more years?
And I was like, yeah, but I'mjust not happy.
(12:52):
And they're like, yeah, none ofus are, but we don't leave.
And I'm like, well, that's ahorrible way to live your life.
And but I won't lie, like I wasterrified that what if this
doesn't work?
Like what if I don't have whatit takes?
What if this fails and I haveto eat crow and go back to that
agency or another one?
Because that's, I can easilyjust go back to a police
(13:16):
department and like fall back inrank.
And my goal was to not have todo that.
And it was a two-year goal,because you're only allowed to
leave for up to two years andthen after that you're basically
gone, you're obsolete, you haveto go back to the academy and
now I've aged out.
So now it's like this is all ornothing.
And if, because I can't go backto policing, then it's like,
well, what would I even do?
So that's always been in theback of my mind.
I truly am most grateful that Iget to wake up every day and do
(13:37):
the thing that I love.
What I tell people is if anyoneasked me not that they do, but
if anyone asked me like Joe, inyour opinion, like what's the
secret to life?
I would say find a hobby, likesomething you actually enjoy,
turn it into a skill, like tryreally hard to be in the top 1%
and then learn to monetize it.
If you do those things likethat to me is freedom, that to
me is like a beautiful life.
(13:58):
That to me is immense gratitude.
Now, that's high level, macro,and then, honestly, on the micro
side of it, it really like notto be cliche, but I'm grateful
every day that I just that I getto like wake up and be housed,
employed again, pay myself asalary doing the work that I
love doing and that, like I canput food on my table, like it's
really simple.
(14:18):
And because I think we live ina world where people are so
distracted and overwhelmed and Isee so much like collective
suffering, I think we've lostperspective and we've become
inundated with things that don'tactually matter, and we're
consuming so much of otherpeople's lives and experiences
that we overwhelm ourselves and,I think, take for granted
(14:41):
everything that is right infront of us.
And so my gratitude is like oneof my foundations of life, and
so I just live truly gratefully.
When I wake up, it's like it'spart of my morning routine.
I wear this compass Thomas onmy wrist.
It's my like true Northreminder.
It never comes off, and everyday I wake up I start with three
things like reflection when amI?
Why am I here?
(15:01):
Who contributed to this?
Especially cause I'm on theroad about 20, 25 days a month.
And then I go into my gratitudethree things in the last 24
hours that can never repeat, andit forces me to find three good
moments in every 24 hour period, and so I'm trained in my brain
to find good in everything, nomatter how stressful the
business is like oh, we just hadour worst quarter.
(15:24):
Uh, in fact, real story, mybusiness is eight years old.
This is the first year 2025that we're going to have.
As of right now, halfway in,we're going to have a down
revenue year.
It's the first time we were at100, 120% every year, every year
, every year.
Now we're actually losingrevenue because we lost a big
client in the state of Iowa andthis is the first time where
(15:45):
we're down and it excites me, itactually is exciting me,
because I'm like, okay, cool, weget to now reset, we can reset
and reorient and then look atlike, how do?
What do we want to do next?
What skill do I need to learnto develop?
What client do we want topenetrate next?
How can we go about this?
And I don't see it as a problem, I see it as a blessing.
So even in something like that,I just uh, gratitude is a huge
(16:05):
part of my life.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Well, when something like you know lose a big client,
you definitely feels like it'shappening to you as quickly as
you can pivot.
Okay, it happened for me.
What am I going to do from it?
And what I typically found isand this is a big thing because
this happens to everybody you'regoing to lose a client at some
point.
It makes you go look at whereyou've been complacent, where
you could have done better toretain that client, or you can
(16:28):
expand the other way, and thoseare usually the opportunities to
kind of get you off your ass,to go look at it slightly
different and say what was thevalue we did?
Or what do we?
How do we know?
How do we go leverage that?
To go trade with paperclip, isthat?
That's where I find theexcitement, in that it's like
all right, I gotta, I gottahustle, because if it comes easy
and everyone's coming to youall the time, then it's like it
just feels transactional.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Um, whereas the I like the idea of starting
something new or building a newcurriculum, or having a new idea
that we can learn to monetizethat doesn't exist yet and
(17:09):
that's what we've done.
And to your point, like, yeah,right away I was like, oh, this
sucks, this is happening to us.
This isn't fair.
Then I look at cause.
It was actually like apolitical, bureaucratic decision
as a state of Iowa and theyredistrict and so all 12 of our
actual CEO clients we've workedwith they all lose their jobs
July 1st of this year.
So I'm like, well, I can sithere and feel bad for myself.
(17:31):
I actually have a ton ofempathy for what they're
actually going through and so Ireally feel bad for all of our
clients in Iowa that are havingto endure this change.
And simultaneously it's likeall right, this gives us a
unique opportunity to leveragethe eight years of traction we
built with them, and now we cango and see what we can build and
do it somewhere else.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
And listen, I get.
I look at 12 people going outin industry.
It could be 12 new clients thatsame size potentially.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah, and exactly that Cause they're not going to
like, while they might be losingtheir jobs, they're not going
to stay unemployed forever.
And some of them are talkingabout going to other States and
I'm like, yeah, that's a greatidea.
You sure, If all people are indifferent States right now, yeah
, and and and truly like we havea great relationship with.
I mean, we've worked with allof them, but we're really close
with like four of them and yeah,if any four of those land on
(18:22):
their feet somewhere and haveclout, like for sure they would
advocate for us and bring us in.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
So it's kind of like uh it's, it's a tree that bared
fruit that has been split intofour or five and like now, you
got to wait for it to kind ofgrow up and get the more fruit
and now you should have a lotmore.
But like.
But this is where I also like,sometimes go with.
I find when people go those,those individuals are going
through some tough times.
Right now they're in a, they'rein a low and they're in a,
they're in a state of disdisorientation.
(18:47):
I just try to be there with forthem as a friend, even if it's
been like our businessacquaintance, like hey, what can
I do to help right now?
Is there anything I can do?
Because that's what's going toactually carry more than the
work that you did have anauthentic be there for someone.
Because someone was there foryou, you're going to be there
for somebody else.
Um, I know I said and I thinkanybody listening right, that's
when a client's going throughsomething like that, take off
(19:09):
the business piece and ask themhow you actually help them as a
person, because sometimes I meansome people, I need food for my
family or like, and that canhappen.
You're like all right, well,can I send over groceries for
the week or something like youdon't know, like where people
might be check.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
To check in in one week you have to work is a big
deal, and so anyway it's hugeand I just to piggyback real
quick to us, I think, becauseI've seen this in my short time
where, especially in thegovernment contract space, um,
we've worked with a client wherewe were like the the secondary,
or the the subcontractor on itand the prime was very buttoned
(19:46):
up, very proper, and I'm likeI'm high relational and so I'm
like like this is one of myphilosophies and we teach it in
de-escalation.
I read about in the book, butit's always like focus on the
person, not the problem, and soI'm like, yeah, yeah, I know for
sure, like the only reasonwe're having this conversation
is because you have a need andwe have a solution.
Now we're going to get to that.
(20:06):
But like, who are you?
How long you been doing this?
What do you care about?
What matters to you?
What would you like to seehappen?
When you focus on the personalside and this is where we thrive
been as successful as it hasbeen with no marketing.
We do no marketing spend.
It's just truly been all wordof mouth to grow from $9,000 in
(20:26):
2017 to two and a half millionlast year, and it was just from
people advocating for us andthen being relational, so that
you don't feel like this is atransaction.
In fact, you want us to winbecause of how much we want you
to win.
And we've had clients like, oh,it's the end of the budget
season, we've got this moneyleft, like, hey, is there
something you can just likethrow at us so we can just throw
(20:47):
you this money?
And I'm like, in what worlddoes this happen?
But because they're again trulythey understand that we value
them, not as a transactionpartner and just as a business
relationship, but like thehumanity side of this really
does matter to us as our company.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah, we have a couple of our biggest customers
are in the government space likesame chasing three letter
agencies.
Like it's long, long salescycles.
One thing I will tell youanybody else listening is you
should always invest in thelongterm play on the brand side
of the marketing, because whenyou need to be known for an rfp,
it's too late and so it's likeyou know specifically you want
(21:23):
to be the one helping write therfp right, as you know already.
But it's like that.
Anybody out there.
Make that investment if you'regoing to be in that government
space, because, like the ones wework with, even for two, three
years and it's paying.
The trees were planted and theywatered it and they paid for it
and now it's got lots of fruitbecause everyone knows that's
where you know, so we can takethat one offline.
I, I get that space yeah some,at some point your your uh
(21:47):
generals and colonels you knewgo away yeah yeah they, uh, they
start retiring out.
They're like, oh shit, who'sthe new guy?
He's got his own guys, allright.
So rapid fire question for you.
I've been asking this in thereverse today what's the worst
business advice you've evergotten?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
oh, the worst business advice is, ah, I would
say, fake it till you make it.
I don't like that at all.
I think authenticity matters.
And, yeah, if you're out therefaking it because, again, I
think it's like, it's almostlike your credit score and your
(22:26):
weight, I get it takes a longtime to establish, but you can
ruin it very quickly.
And, and so you know, one ortwo small mistakes can truly
tarnish a brand and reputation.
Uh, and so the idea of fake itlike I, I will tell people, like
no, I don't know how to do that.
Or this is a new space to me.
Or like no, I'm not sure whatyou mean by that.
Instead of pretending trying toimpress someone, I'll own that.
(22:48):
Like yeah, I don't know thatspace, but I'm happy to like
learn um.
But.
So I think faking until youmake it is probably the worst
advice let's do that on teamsfor For the military.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
You're on teams Like, yeah, I'm good, my pay call
will be we're good For fun.
Exactly, yeah, I'll be back.
Do you know what that means?
Anyway, that wouldn't go wellIf you had to start over today
and you can go back to any pointin your timeline which you have
some juicy timeline points I'mcurious how you're gonna answer
(23:22):
this one.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
When would you go back?
What?
What do you do differently?
Yeah, that's, that is tough forme because, again, I like I not
because it's convenient to mylife, but I really believe this
to be a true statement, which isI've learned to become grateful
for the things I wish neverhappened and like it's like
everything in like this.
(23:43):
I have this tattoo right here,thomas, that says Amor Fati, and
it's the Latin of love, of fate, and I really believe if
something's happening in yourlife, it's supposed to happen
because it's it's a, it's alesson, and everything that
happens to you is either acoffin or a classroom type thing
.
And so to go back and like undoa mistake would mean that maybe
I would be in a different place.
I'm in now and I'm not tryingto skirt the question, but if I
(24:05):
had to answer gun to head, thenI would say probably 2017, when
I started my business.
I don't know that I would havewaited three years, because the
truth is in 2020, uh, when weleft, we grew, uh like about
900% the first year we went fulltime, and so then it's like why
(24:26):
would I, why would I wait?
If I did this three yearsearlier.
Where would I be now threeyears later?
And so that probably would beas like I would.
I would really think, um, Iwould probably start much
different in the business.
I would have started higher, Iwouldn't have played so small.
One of the biggest lessons I'velearned in my own business is
learning the value of what youoffer.
(24:48):
Just for context, to give youan apples to apples, one of the
trainings we offer right now,for example, it's a five-day
training.
Right, we used to do that.
Five-day training, twofacilitators plus our travel,
five-day training.
We would do it for threethousand dollars, all in that's
cost and everything.
We now will charge thirtythousand for the same thing, and
(25:11):
I have a lot of mentors tellingme that it's offensive, how low
that is and that's a horriblerate and that I should be
charging twenty five thousand aday.
But because we work in publicsafety, they're oftentimes very,
very we'll just say, broke, andso they don't have the money.
But even then, though, like togo from a $3,000 product to a
$30,000 product, nothing changedexcept for my ask, and they
(25:34):
just kept saying yes, so like.
That's just one example of likeno-transcript and being able to
(26:01):
like easily justify why wecharge what we charge for our
services.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah Well, you know I love that.
You have to uh, uh, throw outthere what you're worth, and
sometimes you just throw theturd on the table and we'll see
if anybody cleans it up, andthat's what you do and I know,
yeah Good, I'm glad you did.
The other piece is when it'snot, you know, when you do that
to an entrepreneur, it's thesame suit, different pocket.
(26:28):
When it's someone else's budget, they don't care.
This guy just don't get mefired.
And so knowing that determinesprice quite a bit.
So last question, if there's aquestion I should have asked you
and I didn't what was that?
Speaker 2 (26:45):
question.
How do you answer it?
Man?
This is good, Thomas.
I feel underprepared, which ison me, because I have a feeling
that's something you askeveryone and I wish I thought
about this.
So you do a good episode we'rejust seeing there.
Here's my, here's my, likescouts, honor, word of mouth,
honor to you is cause when yousaid, when you said YouTube as
(27:06):
well, when we were chattingbefore, like that I go there a
lot for things and I'm a visualmore than just audio, I am gonna
, cause I'm just fascinated withyou, your work, your other
guests, and so I will belistening to your episodes,
although I didn't do itbeforehand.
So a question that you shouldhave asked me, but different,
(27:29):
yeah.
So I guess, what is one, thecounter of, maybe not even to
the worst business advice, butlike, what is one piece of
advice that you think could helpall people?
And my answer to that would beand I'm I and I'm going to quote
Tom Bilyeu here, because again,this really resonated with me
and I would say, like was one ofthose one degree shifts in my
life but he says the only thingin life that matters is how you
(27:51):
feel about yourself when you'reby yourself, and again, it's
about minimizing distractionsand, as an entrepreneur, to make
it about business, if that'smuch of your audience, then the
truth is is that every day, youwake up into a room of a hundred
doors and your job is to close99 of them.
I think too many of us thinkit's about adding, we think it's
an addition If I just addedmore, if I just got more, if I
just had more, if I just didmore.
(28:11):
But the reality is it's aboutminimizing, it's about reducing,
it's about subtracting and ifyou would just close all those
doors.
It ties into this idea because Ithink again, someone that works
in the mental health spacethere's so much suffering that
is evident all around, and Iimagine when those people
because the second part to this,which is not his, it's mine,
(28:33):
but the scariest place in theworld for man to be is alone in
their thoughts, and so how doyou feel about yourself when
you're by yourself?
And I hate being by myself alonein my head, that's a recipe for
suicidality, for what I callthe four plagues of the
entrepreneur, which is uh, andforgive me I'll explain, but
just chips, tits, Netflix andsprints, and that's food or
alcohol.
(28:53):
Boobs meaning sex, extramaritalaffairs, pornography, uh,
Netflixream Time, doom scrollingYouTube, TikTok, Instagram, and
then even the sprints going tothe gym, working out excessively
to avoid your family or doingthe thing you're supposed to be
doing for your business.
To me, in my experience ofhospitalizing a lot of people,
those four plagues create a lotof problems, and it's all in an
(29:17):
attempt to avoid having to sitwith yourself.
And until you can learn to lovethe company you're in when
you're alone, your life is goingto be incredibly more difficult
than it needs to be.
So that would be my advice.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
I could have done a whole like podcast on just a
whole like series.
Like we get it, we'll breakthat, um, but once you've been
here, joe, you get to come back.
So I do look forward to, uh,interviewing you again in six
months.
Take a touch base.
That's kind of the thing we dois, once you're on, and you
don't suck which you didn't,which is great.
Thank you, man.
Thank you Tell me and everybodyelse how to get ahold of you
first and who should get aholdof you.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Yeah, so two websites joesmarrowcom is personal
website, business website,solutionpointpluscom.
And then, as far as socials go,instagram, joe Smarrow,
linkedin, joe Smarrow, facebook,joe Smarrow.
It's all on Joe Smarrow.
And then we also have a companysocials as well.
But I would love, if youconnected with me, send me a DM
that you heard me on the cut thetie podcast.
(30:10):
I'd love to send you a book.
If you do that, I'll sign itand do it for free.
And in that order, just becauseof what we're growing right now
, I would say Instagram, thenLinkedIn, but yeah,
joesmarrowcom andsolutionpointpluscom are the
best ways to get ahold of me orthe business.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Awesome, Thank you.
Thanks for coming on today.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Thank you brother Appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Everybody's been here before.
Thanks for coming back.
If this is the second time ormore, you know you've been here,
keep coming back.
And if this is the first, Ihope we hooked you, because you
made it to this point you'redefinitely coming back.
So, thanks, get out there, gocut a tie to something holding
you back To find that success inyour own terms.
You know it's how you'rechasing.
Thanks for listening.
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