June 28, 2025 • 43 mins
Cut The Tie Podcast with Thomas Helfrich
Episode 280
After spending 31 years in the California prison system, Danny Darling walked out with more than just his freedom—he carried a new purpose. In this powerful episode of Cut The Tie, Thomas Helfrich speaks with the founder, prison consultant, and life coach about how he broke free from rage, institutional trauma, and the cycle of incarceration to build a business that helps others do the same.
From being sentenced at 16 to helping ex-felons adjust to civilian life, Danny’s story is about healing, accountability, and radical transformation. This isn’t just a redemption story—it’s a blueprint for reclaiming your identity.
About Danny Darling:
Danny Darling is the founder of a reentry consulting business that supports incarcerated and formerly incarcerated individuals through coaching, strategy, and personal empowerment. Sentenced as a teen under California’s felony murder rule, Danny served 31 years in maximum security prisons before being released in 2020. Now, he helps others cut ties to their old identities and build new lives on the outside—with empathy, grit, and truth.
In this episode, Thomas and Danny discuss:
- Prison as identity and environment
What it’s like to go from youth to adulthood inside one of the country’s toughest prison systems. - Cutting the tie to anger and hate
How Danny found healing by confronting the emotion that once protected him—and kept him stuck. - Adapting to life outside the walls
Why sleeping with the light on or scanning parking lots is just part of the reintegration process. - How business gives power back
For many formerly incarcerated individuals, entrepreneurship is the only path to freedom and stability. - The seven people you must meet in prison
Danny teases his upcoming book and how small roles (like the guy behind the food line) can save your sanity.
Key Takeaways:
- You are not what you did—unless you never grow from it
Redemption begins with ownership and ends with reinvention. - Cutting ties means letting go of anger
Danny’s biggest transformation came when he dropped the emotional armor that helped him survive. - Healing is ongoing—and real
You don’t walk out of prison unchanged. But you can unlearn the pain over time. - Employment is a privilege, not a guarantee
Self-employment can be the best (and sometimes only) path forward after incarceration. - Hope doesn’t knock. You have to build the door.
Danny’s release came after decades of rejection—and one final breakthrough.
Connect with Danny Darling:
📘 LinkedIn: Danny Darling
📖 Book Coming Soon: The Seven Most Important People You Need to Meet When You Go to Prison
Connect with Thomas Helfrich:
🐦 Twitter: @thelfrich
📘 Facebook: Cut The Tie Group
💼 LinkedIn: Thomas Helfrich
🌐 Website: cutthetie.com
📧 Email: t@instantlyrelevant.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Cut the Tie podcast.
Hi, I'm your host, thomasHelfrich, and I want you to get
out there and fulfill themission right.
Cut the tie to somethingholding you back, become the
best version of yourself.
And today we are joined byDanny Darling.
Danny, how are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I'm doing fantastic.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
I'm excited to have this conversation an incredibly
cool story and not one you getto hear a lot of as well, so I'm
teasing it for you peoplelistening.
This is pretty cool.
Danny, do you want to take amoment and just introduce
yourself and tell me a littlebit about your business?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
So my name is Danny Darling and I'm the founder of
Prison Consultant Life Coach forEx-Felons.
I've spent 31 years insideCalifornia state prisons and
basically I have a very uniqueperspective about the prison
system, corrections in general,how to deal with the police as
well, the correctional officersthat are in there, as well as
(00:52):
the inmates, because it is atwo-pronged attack that you're
going to be facing.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Wow, that's great.
So just bring that up.
You were in for 31 years andnow you're given coaching to
people coming out or peopleabout to go in as well.
Right, I mean, I usually askthe question what makes you
unique?
I think that's that summarizesthe answer.
You were in there for 31 yearsand came out with a smile on
your face, so, which is which isa good thing, you came out.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Well, after being, after being in there for that
long, everybody comes home witha smile on their face, I bet.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
When did you go in?
How old were you initially?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I was 16 when I was arrested 16.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Oh my.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
God, yes, I was tried as an adult.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeesh, I got to ask what'd you go in for?
Was it one offense or multipletimes, coming back and forth?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
It was.
It was two offenses.
It was my first offense, butthere was two charges.
It was a robbery murder.
It's called the felony murderrule in California.
If you were involved in afelony any felony and somebody
dies if it was intentional oraccidental, you're automatically
guilty.
So the prosecution went withall or nothing.
If you found that they went fora robbery and the man died,
(02:04):
he's guilty.
So the prosecution went withall or nothing.
If you found that they went fora robbery and the man died,
he's guilty.
But if you found that theykilled him and then they took
his property, he's innocent, hewalks away and that was their
whole thing.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
So, like in that example, if you're driving the
car and two of the people you'rewith kill somebody on bank
robbery, and they get in yourcar and you drive away knowingly
that what they did, if you hadno knowledge of what they were
doing, and they just get in thecar and you're like, hey, would
you guys get your money?
Or?
But if you knew you're screwedit.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
It doesn't matter if you, if they were.
We were driving down the street.
We pulled over at a 7-eleven orsomething.
They went, they went in.
They said, hold on, we'll beright back.
They went and got some stuff.
They killed somebody came back.
I drive away.
I am an accomplice in thatwhole area.
The prosecution assumes thatyou knew what was happening and
(02:55):
therefore you're automaticallyguilty of the murder.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
What do you think people are with you?
Like he had no idea.
We didn't tell him what he did,he was just driving us nobody's
ever done that, so I don't knownever happened in the history.
They, they plead the old down.
It was his idea.
It was his idea, absolutely,absolutely.
That's a crazy.
That's crazy.
16 years old and they go into aprison.
(03:20):
I, I, uh, I'm gonna ask thatquestion, like what I mean?
So you go through jail, you getincarcerated, but then you get
stuck into.
Do you go from juvie to thentransfer to adult, or how does
that work?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, so I was at juvenile hall until I turned 18
and I went through prelim allthat good stuff.
Turned 18, within a couple ofmonths I had my trial and then
from county jail I went to cmfcalifornia medical facility wow,
holy moly man.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Yeah, the fact you got out of there without like in
in your own life, honestly likeI'd be like like you're, you're
16, with like basically aneternity twice the length of
your life ahead of you at thatmoment in jail.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
You don't even see that your reality is.
I'm going to die in prisonbecause one let's face it you've
never been in prison beforeYou're.
At a young age, I felt I was ahandsome looking kid so I wasn't
going to be a sexual predatoror anything.
I wasn't going to have nobodyvictimize me, so I was going to
fight for me, which I thinkanybody would, and it just comes
(04:29):
down to the mindset.
I'm going to die in here, so ifsomething happens, I'm going to
make it really rough for them.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
We'll get to when you got released.
Well, I'll tell you.
You have this.
This business you've started,and I think you said you had a
book you're writing too.
Do you want to tease that bookright now?
A little bit business you'vestarted, and I think you said
you had a book you're writingtoo.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Do you want to tease that book right now a little bit
?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
So the book I'm working on is called the seven
most important people you needto meet when you go to prison.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
All right, you got to spoil it for us who are the
seven no-transcript, becausethey make special food for
(05:35):
themselves up in there and thenthey bring it back to you back
in the building and you eat justa little bit better.
You know, imagine eating boiledeggs every Thursday, sos
biscuits and gravy every Tuesdaymorning.
Every Sunday you get scrambledeggs.
It's just because of monotonous.
(05:55):
But then you get once in awhile your friend brings you
back a banana pancake or anapple pancake.
It just changes your day.
Your outlook on life changesimmediately.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Small things.
I'll assume you apply some ofthose small things Now that
you're out.
You're like man, I love to heara bird without a bar in my way,
Right, Like it's a Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I mean okay.
So when I was when I was foundsuitable cause I had to go in
front of a panel to come home,so I had to convince people I
was found suitable because I hadto go in front of a panel to
come home, so I had to convincepeople I was no longer a threat
to society I got stuck on theyard in the rain.
So we have to sit on the groundwhen there's an alarm.
So I'm sitting in a puddle ofwater, rain's coming down and
I'm just smiling because I knowin a couple of months I'm going
(06:39):
home.
But why am I mad that I'm stuckand I'm getting soaked and I'm
wet?
I love stuck and I'm gettingsoaked and I'm wet.
I love it.
I love driving.
I love being stuck in trafficand my family's looking at me
like what's wrong with you.
I'm like I love this Shoot.
This is awesome.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
So tell me about the journey a little bit.
I mean, like when did you getthe idea to start this business?
Were you like when I get out?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Or did any of those thoughts happen while you're
incarcerated?
Absolutely not.
It all started about two and ahalf years ago.
I was looking for a physical ora therapist or some sort of
life coach, but nobody's gonethrough the life I've gone
through.
So how can they really adjustwith me?
Can they really adjust with me?
(07:27):
For example, I've been home fiveyears now and I'm getting ready
to turn 53, but I still have tosleep with the light on.
I still have to sleep with a TVon, the fan blowing.
I can't sleep without it.
If those threes aren't working,I'm not getting a good night's
rest.
I has a habit.
I sleep better during thedaytime with the light outside,
people talking in the other room, because in prison it's never
(07:50):
dark, it's never quiet, peopleare always moving.
I can't do it.
I'm still adjusting.
When I went to a Texasroadhouse the next door to this
restaurant is a car wash whenthe car wash alarm sounded it's
the same alarm we have in prison.
So when it sounded I dropped tothe ground.
(08:11):
I was looking for threats andmy family's standing there.
They're looking down at me likewhat's wrong with you?
And I'm like you guys have noidea Like that's what you do.
It's there's still a lot.
So, yeah, yeah.
So I want to help other peoplethat are coming home.
Let them know they're not alone, they're not isolated.
(08:32):
These are all feelings that weall have, and it's not the
majority, it's all of us.
We have these emotions and whatwe don't know how to identify
our emotions.
In prison.
We don't talk about them.
Prison crying is a sign ofweakness, you know so.
There's a lot of dynamics andwe don't openly share our
emotions in groups in prisonlike this, because we don't want
(08:54):
the next person to have anyleverage over us.
So I want to create a safespace for us.
I mean, when vets come homefrom the military, from being
overseas, they have VA doctorsthat help them.
We don't have anybody for usthat are by us, unless the
therapist can only give us somuch, right.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
And you're, um, a forgotten group for sure.
I mean like in society, likeyou know, you and I connected
through our Facebook group and Iheard your story.
And I mean like in society,like you know, you and I
connected through our Facebookgroup and I heard your story and
I'm one of those people like Iwant to hear this.
This guy's trying to make goodout of a hard as shit life.
Right, I mean like you're a kidand all of a sudden, next thing
you know you're almost 48 yearsold, getting out of prison and
you're like now I got to.
(09:38):
Ironically, a lot of people arein their own prison for that
same amount of time working forother people, doing not quite
the same stress level as youwere under.
But the point is now they'rereinventing themselves.
They don't know how you.
There's a lot of parallels towhat you're doing, to what a lot
(09:59):
of people find themselves in intheir lives that you just
there's only so much time leftand you're very grateful for the
time you have now and sure asshit you're not going to be part
of any cars or anybody elserobbing a bank.
No, we're good.
Did you think back?
Why 31 years Like?
Why you had a like you probablyweren't a threat two years
after you did it.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
No.
So when I first went in now inCalifornia prisons there's
different levels and you seesome movies where they talk
about super max.
Those are level four yards.
Those are the maximum securitylevels of California.
It's Pelican Bay, new Folsom,it's New Corcoran and they're
very rough.
I mean you go to the yard withthe mentality I'm going to die
(10:39):
today, but I'm going to takesomebody with me.
You know, because you neverknow when it's going to happen.
It's it can jump off at anytime.
Sometimes you can feel it onthe yard.
I've walked into the chow halland it's quiet, nobody's talking
.
You know something is going tohappen sometime.
They're just waiting for whoand when they get there.
So when you're dealing with that, your mindset is, it's volatile
(11:04):
, it's going to go, and then youhave to be ready.
Now it took a number of yearsfor me to one get out of my own
way or cut the tie that washolding me back, and I really
had to do it.
It took some time to adjust toit and once I made my decision,
it took time to actually getaway from the people I was with,
(11:25):
because they were a comfortzone.
You know, if you're going to gointo war.
You want to go to war with somesavages, so you develop the
savage mentality and it takestime to get rid of that.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Right, and you're talking about time out, since
you've been out and you had toyou had to unlearn some
behaviors that don't work.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
I'm still unlearning them.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
What's been the hardest one you had to unlearn
Sitting in a restaurant where Ican't see everybody.
So you know cause, like whenyou're in a chow hall you're
looking for threats.
Everybody's a threat in prisonunless you know them, and then
sometimes your friends could bea threat too.
But so when I go to arestaurant I have to sit to
where I see the door and I seethe majority of people.
(12:12):
I can't sit in the middle.
I got to sit along a wall, sothat way I know nobody's behind
me.
Now I've gotten to the point towhere, eh, I'll sit over there,
I'm good, let's go.
Yeah, you know, because I haveto take that mentality.
Not everybody is a threat, youknow.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I still look around the room, at least to the level.
Yeah, at least to the levelthey were in prison, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I still look around and see who's who who in body
language and see if anybody'spissed off or anything, but I
I'm comfortable enough to sit inthe middle of the room.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
It's huge.
Do you remember?
Well, tell me about so instarting your business, which is
interesting.
There was a guest we had onrecently that uh for former for
recovering addicts and somepeople coming out of prison or
just people who've.
They're getting a rough startin life because they can't find
jobs because they were addictsor they broke laws or whatever
else you probably should connectto who's in California but he
(13:07):
has food trucks and he helpsguys learn to own their own and
his idea was if I can help themfind a place to get a job and a
talent and own something that'stheir only chance for employment
is self-employment.
It really, for the most part,it is right no-transcript my
(13:39):
anger, my hatred for everybodyelse.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Wow Now, I never grew up racist.
Even though California prisonsis extremely racist, I've never
grown up in a racist attitude.
My stepdad is Black, before hepassed two years ago.
My sister and my niece are bothmixed.
I have a Vietnamesebrother-in-law.
I got Mexican family members.
(14:02):
I mean, we just have a plethoraof people in our family tree,
but in prison you only isolatewith those that you identify
with.
So if you go in as a white boy,that's who you're going to be
talking to.
That's it, that's all.
It took me 10 years to changemy ethnicity from white to other
, and that was a journey initself because I had to break
(14:23):
away from that.
But I just.
I was at the point where Ihated everybody.
So that way, if anybody came atme, I couldn't be like dude,
you were my friend, what youknow, it was just cut it be mad
at everybody.
So that way, the angers thereor something were to happen.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
It's almost like a defense mechanism.
At that point to stay alive, Ican't trust anyone, so I got to
hate everyone, so I got to beready to go without hesitation,
absolutely.
So, once you got out, you gotthat journey to get out.
Do you remember the moment,though, when you were going to
let go of the anger?
When you got out, or maybe itwas before?
I should ask the question toeveryone when did you know you
were going to have to break thatanger cycle?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I went to a self-help group.
It's called phases I don'tremember what the acronym was,
but it was a really powerfulmoment of the guy that was
speaking.
Him and his wife went away forthe weekend for their 10 year
anniversary, asked the neighborto watch their daughter while
they were gone.
He came home, found a videotapeand a VCR.
(15:28):
Yes, this is older days, youknow, we don't have VCRs, no
more.
But he, the neighbor,videotaped himself molesting his
daughter.
So he went next door, beat thisguy up very badly, did some
horrible things to him butdidn't kill him.
He didn't want to kill him.
He left them with the Klossbybag for the rest of his life.
(15:52):
His daughter came up to visitand said Daddy, why are you in
jail?
He said when you get older I'llexplain it to you because you
won't understand now.
So when she turned 16, she wentback up for her birthday and
she said Daddy, for my birthday,I want to know why you were in
jail.
He said because I didn'tprotect you.
Her answer excuse me.
(16:14):
Her answer said Daddy, who'sprotecting me now?
And it was at that moment hecut everything away.
That's when I realized I haveto start cutting people out too.
I got to come home and it's,it's powerful.
You know who's protecting menow?
Speaker 1 (16:35):
It's hard, it's unmanageable.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah, you know, and we think at the time we're gonna
punish this person for doingwhat they did to me and my
family, but ultimately you'rethe one punishing yourself.
You have to let the authoritiesdo it, give them all the
evidence.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
You got to step away and that's one of the hardest
things to do yes, it soundsbrutally because, uh, in the
moment you know you're, uh, thepart of the brain that's
supposed to think like thatshuts off, ends you absolutely.
I mean, like it's like thatwould the level of rage that
(17:15):
that guy probably, you know thefact he didn't kill him is
amazing to me, though I'mprobably, probably, he probably
would if she would have, becausehe probably ended up in the
same spot.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
But yeah, they gave him attempted murder and gave
him a life sentence for it.
And he, he looked at the judge.
He says your honor, I didn'twant to kill him, otherwise he
would have been dead.
I want him to know every timehe has to clean his cloth me bag
this is a direct result of whatshe did and he was just Did the
(17:44):
guy go to jail for assaultingthe daughter?
I don't know.
We didn't ask that question atthat time.
Yeah, that would be irrelevantat this point.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
To me.
It's crazy, by the way, didsome guy gets a life sentence
unless he had priors forsomething that's unlikely to be
repeated Like such extreme?
It's not like it was like thedude cut him off and he beat the
shit out of him and it's likethis guy right, you know it's
some very personable.
That happened that you knowlike like unlikely that was
going to happen again.
Yeah, you should serve sometime, no question, but forever
(18:17):
that who's that help?
Anyway, crazy.
You know that that's a.
That's a very powerful moment.
By the way, you want to comeback to that.
That.
You saw it and since then,maybe, maybe before you talk
about the impact it's had onyour life, how did you take that
first step to let the anger go?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
So when I went back to my cell and I was, I was
figuring that out and I put onsome music and the song that
came on is Michael Jackson's manin the mirror and if you
actually listen to it, it's youwant to make that change.
Be that change is what he'ssaying.
And I was like, okay, I got tofigure this out, I got to make
(18:59):
this change.
I got to do this.
So I went around and found somefacilitators, asked them what
groups were coming up, took abunch of groups at that point
and because I'm taking groups,it's less time for me hanging
around the people that I werehanging around with and then it
slowly started distancing mefrom them, which was the best
thing I needed.
And then it just from there, itwas a ripple effect.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
It just like good things just started opening up
and happening for me.
Did the impact?
Is that the reason you wereable to get out?
Yes, without it you don't think.
You think you're still in there.
Absolutely, wow, absolutely.
That is impact, because now youget to be around your family
and make friends and new friendsand start a whole new life.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah, and I get to meet you, so that was kind of
awesome.
There you go.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I like it, man.
I love that.
I love to hear people doturnarounds.
I mean, would we have beenfriends at 16?
Probably not.
Probably not while you'reincarcerated either, but I can
be friends.
Probably not while you'reincarcerated either, but I can
be friends with you.
Yes, hey, listen, I couldalways use somebody with a
swivel of a head looking out forthe threats, because I'm
clueless.
I'm the instigator typicallyNot anymore in my old life, but
my eve.
I was definitely the instigator.
(20:13):
I never was the one that gotcaught.
It was always somebody else.
To be fair, I wasn't robbinganything or causing.
I wasn't to that degree.
We're talking like TP in ahouse.
Anyway, all right.
So tell me about this a littlebit.
You made the change.
You cut the tie to anger.
You take the first steps groups.
You start dissing stuff frompeople who have like-minded
thinking.
You have to go to a new group.
(20:34):
What was the impact?
You know, initially.
You know, isolating yourself inprison, I would guess, is not a
good thing because you'revulnerable to all.
But then what's the?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
impact sense.
Well, when you leave one groupof friends and you're doing
self-help groups, now it's adifferent, like-minded group of
people that we're talking about,people who are trying to change
, that are changing, that wantto go home.
So then my mind started workingwith them.
So then we developed brand newprograms called annual cultural
(21:08):
awareness days, where we set upinside of a gym 27 tables.
We have different ethnic groups, races, cultures.
Everybody come together andspend eight hours talking about
their individual culture so thatway other people can identify
and learn more about them.
And like, one of the things thatwe did is we we kind of picked
(21:29):
on the Muslims for it becausethey had the most.
Everybody was worried about whythey do what they do.
They pray five times a day,they put out a mat, they bow
down, they they subjugatethemselves and they were like,
why do they do that?
But people are afraid to askthem because then they make them
defensive.
Why are you asking me what'sgoing on?
(21:50):
So this here was a way todiffuse all that Ask your
questions, get it out there, andonce that happened, the
administration seen that we weretrying to change.
We were trying to change theculture in prison to where we
knew more about each other andit just hey, how would you like
to do this, how would you liketo do this?
I could really use your helpdoing this and it just became a
(22:10):
bigger, bigger, bigger thing.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
So that's fantastic and now you've taken that
afterwards, it got you out ofprison and I mean one of the
things, I'm sure, but that's abig one to be able to say I
changed my outlook in life,right, and you applying that, it
sounds like then, to your, your, your business a bit.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yes, the whole thing is.
I think society benefitsgreatly from helping other
people, not yourself, Notyourself.
You know you can have men planta tree that's not going to have
shade for another 70 years.
They're probably not going tobe around in 70 years.
That shade is for somebody elsebehind them and it just makes
(22:50):
life so much better because it'snot about you.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
It's about helping other people.
That's beautiful.
What's your advice to alistener?
I mean, it seems like you couldhave quite a bit of it, but if
you had to distill life advicedown to a listener right now, I
would ask the five what's?
Speaker 2 (23:10):
And it really is what's holding you back?
What's in your way?
You know and just keep going.
You got to ask that about fivetimes to really cut the fat away
from the actual problem,because we'll dress up a problem
like I can't get a job?
Well, why can't I get a job?
Well, nobody's hiring.
Well, let's cut that out theway, because people are hiring.
(23:31):
So what's holding you back?
Well, I don't want to work inMcDonald's because they make low
money or it's beneath me.
Well, let's cut that out.
Okay, let's figure it out,let's do this.
And I've seen one guy say well,I'll never work in McDonald's
because I'm not going to have no24-year-old kid be my manager.
(23:51):
I'm 50.
So what if he's your manager?
You're making some money,you're earning an honest income.
You're not going back to prison, you're not chasing drugs.
What's your problem?
Put your ego and your pride tothe side, get out of your way
and move forward.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
It's crazy to me.
It's like you don't need to gowork for anyone.
You can make six figures as aplumber or an electrician and
they don't care.
You went to prison.
They care that you show upevery day on the job.
Learn your shit, do the thingsyou're supposed to do.
Hand me a pipe when I asked fora pipe.
Hand me a tool and ask you fora tool, and at some point you'll
do the stuff.
Like to me, it's like you.
You can.
(24:30):
You can learn a trade at anypoint and in four years you can
be a master plumber.
Four years you could be amaster electrician, which means
you can own a business and itmeans you can employ people.
And it's me.
It's like you can get out andyou can start.
You could start doing somethingtoday.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Because like one of the best books I've ever read,
and and I actually have it hereand it's one of your questions
that you that you had asked me,and it's seven moments that
define excellent leaders.
All right, it's by Lee J Cullenand this book is amazing.
It's really simple read.
It's not like it's a bold printor a fine print.
(25:11):
It's not like it's a bold printor a fine print.
It's really easy.
And he said he had a friend whowanted to go to medical school,
but it was four years.
He said so how old are yougoing to be in four years?
He's like well, I'm going to be34.
He said okay, so if you go tomedical school in four years,
how old are you going to be?
He's like 34.
He says so what's holding youback?
Just do it Four years Okay.
(25:34):
So if it's four years to be amaster electrician, do it In
four years it's like you'rebroke.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
You actually make good 50, 60, 70 K a year being
an electrician's hell helper.
It's like you're broke gonethrough the years.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah, my little brother.
He went to prison for sevenyears, eight months, learned how
to be a welder, got certifiedin prison to be a welder.
Now he's home.
He's got his own plumbinglicense, he's got his general
electrician's license, he's gothis general contractor's license
and he's got a boilerplatelicense.
He's been home for 18 years.
(26:11):
He smashed it.
He's been home for 18 years.
He smashed it.
He's making great money, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
So I have kids who have not yet served any time,
but hopefully they won't.
But I look at the cost of likecollege and I compare it to what
say well, you know, go suck upyour pride of what you think you
should be titled.
Go get a crack in your ass andgo be a plumber for four years
and by the end of it, by thetime you're 22, when you could
have gotten on Cone's you'dmight be you know I'll.
(26:37):
I'll put you some businessclasses so you can learn how to
run a business.
But you can go and build amultimillion dollar plumbing
company by knowing plumbing orby knowing a HVAC services or
some type of like absolutelyessential service.
To me that's like for anybodyreally.
But specifically when no onewill hire you and they ask you
the question hey, have you evercommitted a felony or whatever
(26:58):
else?
And you're like I'm asked tojust stop applying at this point
, unless the person who owns abusiness was a felon at some
point Unlikely you're going toget the job, so why fight that
and get angry about it?
Go build your own life aroundit.
If anything you probablylearned is you can.
You can stick out hard shit ifyou got out of prison.
So learning a new tradeshouldn't be nearly as hard as
(27:20):
23 hours a day in a small littlecell, worried of something to
come there and shank you.
I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know.
I'm talking my ass because you,you know the world, I don't.
I'm just saying I just watchedmovies and the horrible history
channel ones where I'm like Holycow, these super maxes.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yeah, have you seen Shawshank redemption?
I have, okay.
So when red goes to the paroleboard, he's like, yeah, I'm just
up for rejection.
Because when I got locked up,that's how it was we had Duke
Bayesian as governor.
He was no murderers getting outof my watch.
Pete Wilson stepped in.
(27:59):
He said the same thing nomurderers getting out of my
watch.
And it was Gray Davis when hestepped in.
Nobody's going home on my watch.
So when we went to the board weknew we weren't going home.
That was out.
So why are we even trying atsome point?
Because if you already knowthey're not going to give it to
(28:19):
you, why bother?
You know and it took PeteWilson to be recalled Governor
Schwarzenegger stepped in and hebecame governor in 1994.
And that was when we firststarted seeing lifers go home.
It was few and far between, butwe saw some go home.
That's when we started gettinga little bit of glimmer and a
(28:39):
little bit of hope.
Now, granted, he was lettingsome ex-officers who got life
sentences for doing some verypoor shooting on the line of
duty and they got life sentences, but at least somebody was
going home and it just slowlyhelped.
When Governor Brown came backinto office.
(29:00):
He helped out too.
He's seen that a lot of peoplehad changed and then he had
started changing the policy.
So when it comes down to it, inseeing Shawshank Redemption, he
goes in 10 years, I'm up forrejection.
Goes back 10 years later, I'mup for rejection.
The last time he goes in thereit's 30 years later.
He says, what's rehabilitationto you?
(29:24):
And he's like, well, this iswhat it means to you.
But this is what I would say tothat kid 30 years ago.
And they found him suitable.
And it's almost the same typeof mentality.
It's like, yeah, I'm going upfor this thing and I'll be back
in a couple hours.
Let's play some more cards ordominoes on the yard.
And then finally, peoplestarted going home.
(29:44):
We had to start taking it moreserious.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yeah, I mean it gives you hope.
Speaking of hope, a littlerapid fire question section who?
Speaker 2 (29:57):
gives your inspiration.
A lot of people actually, and Ican't really put it on one
person, but like I'll see anelderly person sitting down on a
chair and he'll be eating somegelato or ice cream or something
and I'll talk to him and askhim about his life, that's the
normal person who gives meinspiration is because one they
(30:20):
made it to where they're atRight.
Dude, I'm 50, coming up to be53.
I want to be 70 years old and Inever thought I'd make it past
20.
I mean, I went to, I went toold Folsom in 1990 as a 18 year
old kid.
I never thought I was going tomake six months, so every day is
(30:41):
a blessing for me.
So everybody that's stillgetting by, knowing that they
have hardships, they havetroubles, they have family
issues, they have mental healthproblems, they're still getting
by.
Even the people mental healthproblems, they're still getting
by.
Even the people that arehomeless, they're still getting
by.
They're not dead and that's thepeople who give me hope.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Beautiful as your business is growing, in pieces
like this.
What's been the best businessadvice you've received?
In pieces like this, you knowwhat's been the best business
advice you've received.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Be mindful of the client, really be mindful of it,
because it's not easy foreverybody, especially dealing
with us coming home.
We don't do groups like thisthat often.
It's very difficult.
It's one.
We got to take time out of ourschedule On Monday through
Friday.
You're working your butt offSaturday and Sunday.
(31:37):
You kind of want to kick back.
You want to drink a beer, sitby the pool if you have one, get
a blow up pool, like I do.
You know it doesn't have to befancy, but I have a blow up pool
.
Yes, I do.
It's really nice too and justkick back and relax and enjoy
the finer things light.
But if I have to drive an hour,spend two hours and come back,
that's four hours out of my day.
(31:57):
That's gone and some would sayit's wasted.
But it's really not.
If you were to break it down,let's do a 30 minute zoom call
with three or four people, oreven one-on-one, and let's just
talk about some of our issues.
Now that we're home, let's justbe real.
We need a place where we aresafe and we don't have to worry
about anybody else.
Nobody's trying to get leverageon anybody out here.
(32:18):
We're just trying to help eachother and that's the whole key,
you know.
And and it starts with cause Iwas on one of these meetings and
for 45 minutes nobody wanted totalk and I was, like trying to
text the moderator, like youneed to start this, you need to
open it up.
You know, you need to becomevulnerable and let these people
(32:39):
know what's going on.
And that's when I startedspeaking up and dudes like, all
right, well, we're out of time.
I'm like we're in a role, don't, don't cut the time.
You know, if people have to getoff, they'll tell us hey, I
don't have the time we were in,right?
Speaker 1 (32:54):
now you would have been stabbed for saying that no,
don't say, that Don't say.
But it would have been funny.
You're lucky we're not in rightnow.
I would have shank over.
When in your life would youhave started over and what would
you do differently?
Speaker 2 (33:16):
I think 1989, I wouldn't have left my house that
night.
I mean that would be a goodstart over, but I was still
angry, so I probably would havedied somewhere along the lines
During this process.
You know, and a lot, lot ofpeople say, would you go back
and do things differently?
And for a while I was saying,yes, but with this I've learned
(33:38):
so much, I've grown so much andI know I can help more people.
So I think just getting out ofmy own way and starting this
when I came home would have beenbetter instead of waiting.
It's it's five years.
I should have.
I should have had my book done,published on my second or third
book by now, you know, andthat's the problem, because we
(34:00):
get complacent.
I mean, I've been to Daga Bay,I've been to Disneyland, I've
been to Universal Studios,hollywood, I'm traveling up and
down the state of California.
I want to travel, I want to seethings, but here's the thing If
you're doing this, then youdon't have time for this.
So you have to make time andcreate it for what you need to
(34:21):
do, and I think I would havedone that differently back then,
instead of traveling to allthose places and enjoying my
life start that, but I treasurethese moments in these days, so
yeah, I would.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
I would say you're uh , you're doing the right thing
by doing the moments in life.
The number one rule of writinga book is you have to
procrastinate.
It's that simple.
So that's that's how you writea book.
95% of his procrastination, 5%,is writing and finishing it.
So if you haven't hit your 95,yeah, if you haven't you're on.
(34:56):
Listen, I think you're on adifferent path, and one that
you're creative for yourself,not one that was created for you
, right?
And so, whatever your childhoodwas, it made you angry.
Whatever's happened now in yourlife.
It sounds hard, I'm notdismissing it, but it is now in
the past and it's made you whoyou are and what you'll become
today.
So you get to choose everymoment moving forward, and I
don't think you're making badchoices by.
(35:17):
I'm going to go enjoyDisneyland is not a bad choice.
I'm going to get shit faced andall sleep in the pool.
Probably there's better choicesin that one, but exactly, and
that's just it.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
It's a choice, not a mistake.
It's a choice.
You're a big guy.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
I mean you have one too many and get a little
aggressive.
In that pool it's popping.
I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
You're taking it down .
Speaker 1 (35:39):
You do not look like a small man.
You want to be careful.
Take it easy on your pool, allright.
If there was one question Ishould have asked you today and
I didn't, what was that questionand how would you have answered
it?
Speaker 2 (35:51):
I actually have it written here.
So the one question would bewhat are some of the issues or
traumas you have today becauseof your incarceration?
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Because that's where it comes down to.
I told you a whole podcast onthis answer.
What is that answer?
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Well, when are we doing the second podcast?
No, I'm kidding.
Well, when are we doing thesecond podcast?
No, I'm kidding, you were, uh,you're.
So it really is.
Oh, awesome, like when me andmy girlfriend are going out to
the store or restaurant orsomething.
I exit my home first and I lookaround the street for any
threats.
I know there's not none.
I have an officer that livesnext door to me, but I still
(36:28):
look.
Look, I'll walk her to the car.
I'll open the car door, I'llput her in the car.
Then I'll go around because I'mdriving, I'm defensive driving,
I'm looking everywhere.
I'm checking every mirror,looking for everything.
When we get out, I get outfirst.
I walk around and I'm looking,surveilling the parking lot for
threats.
I'll open her door.
(36:53):
Let's go in, we go in.
I'm the first one in the storeand I get it.
Gentlemen are supposed to holdthe door open for her.
I'll hold it up behind me assoon as she has it.
Then I'm going in making surethat there's no threat.
And it's hard because it's justme being programmed that way in
prison.
You have friends that you arewith.
They know how to identifythreats as well.
My girlfriend does not.
I'm looking for body language,posture, the whole anger,
(37:17):
everything.
I'm checking hands as peopleare walking.
So even when we come out, I'mthe first one out of the store,
I'm checking everything, I'mputting her in the car and it's
just.
These are little traumas thatwe have and it's really not a
trauma, I guess, but there'sjust so much.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
I don't.
I mean that's, I don't evenknow.
When veterans come home,military come home, and they're
trying to assimilate them tobecome civilians.
One of my guests she said don't, you're a veteran, you're
always a veteran, so act likeone.
This is something that's been,will now be, from the majority
of your life, right, and and ithas its benefits and everything
else as well, except that thatyou just feel you're a little
(38:01):
bit more aware and safer becauseyou have a reality of life of
how it kind of really can be.
I don't think it's a negative.
It may be annoying, but thetruth is just that's who I am,
that's who I do it, becausethat's who I am now and maybe
over time it'll, and I think Idon't think you should beat
yourself up with that becauseit's it's just like you could
probably go crazy trying tobreak that and it doesn't really
(38:22):
add the value that you're goingto want it to once you do.
I don't know.
No, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
No, I don't know.
Now one thing there are acouple of things before we close
out, because I know we'rerunning out of time.
But I was arrested on February19th, 1989.
Okay, february 19th.
I was released on February 19thof 2020.
(38:50):
31 years to the day, wow, okay.
I was 16 years when I wasincarcerated right, 16 years old
.
If you double that, it's 32years.
Okay, I did one year shy of twothirds of my life in prison.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
This is what I know.
This is my fifth year home.
I got locked up when I was 16.
I don't smoke, I generally takecare of myself.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
I should have a good 30 years of cognitive ability
left and I'm 49 or 48 at thetime, but 49.
And the point was I basicallyjust graduated high school,
again with 30 years of knowledge.
You're coming out.
If you kind of keep it together, you should have at least good
20 to 30 years of good cognitiveability, with some pains
towards the ends.
But the truth is you're justkind of getting out again and
(39:56):
now you're starting over with abunch more knowledge of the way
of the world.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
So you got to go pick what that is when my girlfriend
took me to different places,she said it was like watching
the world through the eyes of atwo-year-old, because everything
was new to me.
See, when I got locked up at 89, it was first month last month
(40:20):
of the down payment for rent.
Now it's credit.
Do you have credit?
When did that happen?
Speaker 1 (40:28):
I mean cash.
If you pay for a full year ofrent in advance, most people not
only will discount it for you,they will accept it.
Cash wins too.
How do you get that much cash?
What you got to do is sell moreshit and have it cost less.
Oh okay, it's really easy.
Actually, you sell somethingfor less than you paid for it,
(40:48):
and that difference is oh wordsof wisdom right there.
Right, I will tell you, though,like, but like.
Even when you're doing yourbook and you're doing your group
, there's always like now youhave.
There's nothing stopping you.
Like you can, you can learn atrade as well, and you can have
side hustles.
You can do whatever you need todo, that's you know that it to
(41:08):
make money.
It just depends on what youwant to go do and what you will
go do.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
I make jewelry on the side.
I started in prison makingjewelry, I saved up $200 in
prison and I made 1800 off of it.
So it's, it's a crazy hustle.
Yeah, I mean, granted, myaudience was right there in
front of me.
I mean, they couldn't gonowhere, they were just buying
my stuff.
(41:33):
But you know, hey, I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
I know a guy that that makes pens as his hobby so
he buys all the components andmakes custom pens, like people
writing oh, wow you know thatthing that people do sometimes
and yeah, he'll.
He'll sell them for four or fivehundred bucks a piece.
His material is like a hundredbucks.
It'll take like two daysbecause he gets in the weed with
it and does it, and then hesells these custom pens for
ceremony or whatever else.
That's cool Side hustle.
(41:59):
I'll tell you a side hustle.
Hold on, I'll say goodbye onthe show and we'll talk here in
a second.
Danny, thanks so much forjoining me today on the podcast.
I've really enjoyed theconversation and your journey.
Appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
And those listening listen getout there.
Go cut a tie to somethingholding you back.
Really unleash the best versionof yourself.
Become the entrepreneur youalways wanted to.
(42:20):
No-transcript.
Welcome to the Cut the Tie podcast.
Hi, I'm your host, thomasHelfrich, and I want you to get
out there and fulfill themission right.
Cut the tie to somethingholding you back, become the
best version of yourself.
And today we are joined byDanny Darling.
Danny, how are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I'm doing fantastic.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
I'm excited to have this conversation an incredibly
cool story and not one you getto hear a lot of as well, so I'm
teasing it for you peoplelistening.
This is pretty cool.
Danny, do you want to take amoment and just introduce
yourself and tell me a littlebit about your business?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
So my name is Danny Darling and I'm the founder of
Prison Consultant Life Coach forEx-Felons.
I've spent 31 years insideCalifornia state prisons and
basically I have a very uniqueperspective about the prison
system, corrections in general,how to deal with the police as
well, the correctional officersthat are in there, as well as
(00:52):
the inmates, because it is atwo-pronged attack that you're
going to be facing.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Wow, that's great.
So just bring that up.
You were in for 31 years andnow you're given coaching to
people coming out or peopleabout to go in as well.
Right, I mean, I usually askthe question what makes you
unique?
I think that's that summarizesthe answer.
You were in there for 31 yearsand came out with a smile on
your face, so, which is which isa good thing, you came out.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Well, after being, after being in there for that
long, everybody comes home witha smile on their face, I bet.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
When did you go in?
How old were you initially?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I was 16 when I was arrested 16.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Oh my.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
God, yes, I was tried as an adult.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeesh, I got to ask what'd you go in for?
Was it one offense or multipletimes, coming back and forth?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
It was.
It was two offenses.
It was my first offense, butthere was two charges.
It was a robbery murder.
It's called the felony murderrule in California.
If you were involved in afelony any felony and somebody
dies if it was intentional oraccidental, you're automatically
guilty.
So the prosecution went withall or nothing.
If you found that they went fora robbery and the man died,
(02:04):
he's guilty.
So the prosecution went withall or nothing.
If you found that they went fora robbery and the man died,
he's guilty.
But if you found that theykilled him and then they took
his property, he's innocent, hewalks away and that was their
whole thing.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
So, like in that example, if you're driving the
car and two of the people you'rewith kill somebody on bank
robbery, and they get in yourcar and you drive away knowingly
that what they did, if you hadno knowledge of what they were
doing, and they just get in thecar and you're like, hey, would
you guys get your money?
Or?
But if you knew you're screwedit.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
It doesn't matter if you, if they were.
We were driving down the street.
We pulled over at a 7-eleven orsomething.
They went, they went in.
They said, hold on, we'll beright back.
They went and got some stuff.
They killed somebody came back.
I drive away.
I am an accomplice in thatwhole area.
The prosecution assumes thatyou knew what was happening and
(02:55):
therefore you're automaticallyguilty of the murder.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
What do you think people are with you?
Like he had no idea.
We didn't tell him what he did,he was just driving us nobody's
ever done that, so I don't knownever happened in the history.
They, they plead the old down.
It was his idea.
It was his idea, absolutely,absolutely.
That's a crazy.
That's crazy.
16 years old and they go into aprison.
(03:20):
I, I, uh, I'm gonna ask thatquestion, like what I mean?
So you go through jail, you getincarcerated, but then you get
stuck into.
Do you go from juvie to thentransfer to adult, or how does
that work?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, so I was at juvenile hall until I turned 18
and I went through prelim allthat good stuff.
Turned 18, within a couple ofmonths I had my trial and then
from county jail I went to cmfcalifornia medical facility wow,
holy moly man.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Yeah, the fact you got out of there without like in
in your own life, honestly likeI'd be like like you're, you're
16, with like basically aneternity twice the length of
your life ahead of you at thatmoment in jail.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
You don't even see that your reality is.
I'm going to die in prisonbecause one let's face it you've
never been in prison beforeYou're.
At a young age, I felt I was ahandsome looking kid so I wasn't
going to be a sexual predatoror anything.
I wasn't going to have nobodyvictimize me, so I was going to
fight for me, which I thinkanybody would, and it just comes
(04:29):
down to the mindset.
I'm going to die in here, so ifsomething happens, I'm going to
make it really rough for them.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
We'll get to when you got released.
Well, I'll tell you.
You have this.
This business you've started,and I think you said you had a
book you're writing too.
Do you want to tease that bookright now?
A little bit business you'vestarted, and I think you said
you had a book you're writingtoo.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Do you want to tease that book right now a little bit
?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
So the book I'm working on is called the seven
most important people you needto meet when you go to prison.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
All right, you got to spoil it for us who are the
seven no-transcript, becausethey make special food for
(05:35):
themselves up in there and thenthey bring it back to you back
in the building and you eat justa little bit better.
You know, imagine eating boiledeggs every Thursday, sos
biscuits and gravy every Tuesdaymorning.
Every Sunday you get scrambledeggs.
It's just because of monotonous.
(05:55):
But then you get once in awhile your friend brings you
back a banana pancake or anapple pancake.
It just changes your day.
Your outlook on life changesimmediately.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Small things.
I'll assume you apply some ofthose small things Now that
you're out.
You're like man, I love to heara bird without a bar in my way,
Right, Like it's a Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I mean okay.
So when I was when I was foundsuitable cause I had to go in
front of a panel to come home,so I had to convince people I
was found suitable because I hadto go in front of a panel to
come home, so I had to convincepeople I was no longer a threat
to society I got stuck on theyard in the rain.
So we have to sit on the groundwhen there's an alarm.
So I'm sitting in a puddle ofwater, rain's coming down and
I'm just smiling because I knowin a couple of months I'm going
(06:39):
home.
But why am I mad that I'm stuckand I'm getting soaked and I'm
wet?
I love stuck and I'm gettingsoaked and I'm wet.
I love it.
I love driving.
I love being stuck in trafficand my family's looking at me
like what's wrong with you.
I'm like I love this Shoot.
This is awesome.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
So tell me about the journey a little bit.
I mean, like when did you getthe idea to start this business?
Were you like when I get out?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Or did any of those thoughts happen while you're
incarcerated?
Absolutely not.
It all started about two and ahalf years ago.
I was looking for a physical ora therapist or some sort of
life coach, but nobody's gonethrough the life I've gone
through.
So how can they really adjustwith me?
Can they really adjust with me?
(07:27):
For example, I've been home fiveyears now and I'm getting ready
to turn 53, but I still have tosleep with the light on.
I still have to sleep with a TVon, the fan blowing.
I can't sleep without it.
If those threes aren't working,I'm not getting a good night's
rest.
I has a habit.
I sleep better during thedaytime with the light outside,
people talking in the other room, because in prison it's never
(07:50):
dark, it's never quiet, peopleare always moving.
I can't do it.
I'm still adjusting.
When I went to a Texasroadhouse the next door to this
restaurant is a car wash whenthe car wash alarm sounded it's
the same alarm we have in prison.
So when it sounded I dropped tothe ground.
(08:11):
I was looking for threats andmy family's standing there.
They're looking down at me likewhat's wrong with you?
And I'm like you guys have noidea Like that's what you do.
It's there's still a lot.
So, yeah, yeah.
So I want to help other peoplethat are coming home.
Let them know they're not alone, they're not isolated.
(08:32):
These are all feelings that weall have, and it's not the
majority, it's all of us.
We have these emotions and whatwe don't know how to identify
our emotions.
In prison.
We don't talk about them.
Prison crying is a sign ofweakness, you know so.
There's a lot of dynamics andwe don't openly share our
emotions in groups in prisonlike this, because we don't want
(08:54):
the next person to have anyleverage over us.
So I want to create a safespace for us.
I mean, when vets come homefrom the military, from being
overseas, they have VA doctorsthat help them.
We don't have anybody for usthat are by us, unless the
therapist can only give us somuch, right.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
And you're, um, a forgotten group for sure.
I mean like in society, likeyou know, you and I connected
through our Facebook group and Iheard your story.
And I mean like in society,like you know, you and I
connected through our Facebookgroup and I heard your story and
I'm one of those people like Iwant to hear this.
This guy's trying to make goodout of a hard as shit life.
Right, I mean like you're a kidand all of a sudden, next thing
you know you're almost 48 yearsold, getting out of prison and
you're like now I got to.
(09:38):
Ironically, a lot of people arein their own prison for that
same amount of time working forother people, doing not quite
the same stress level as youwere under.
But the point is now they'rereinventing themselves.
They don't know how you.
There's a lot of parallels towhat you're doing, to what a lot
(09:59):
of people find themselves in intheir lives that you just
there's only so much time leftand you're very grateful for the
time you have now and sure asshit you're not going to be part
of any cars or anybody elserobbing a bank.
No, we're good.
Did you think back?
Why 31 years Like?
Why you had a like you probablyweren't a threat two years
after you did it.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
No.
So when I first went in now inCalifornia prisons there's
different levels and you seesome movies where they talk
about super max.
Those are level four yards.
Those are the maximum securitylevels of California.
It's Pelican Bay, new Folsom,it's New Corcoran and they're
very rough.
I mean you go to the yard withthe mentality I'm going to die
(10:39):
today, but I'm going to takesomebody with me.
You know, because you neverknow when it's going to happen.
It's it can jump off at anytime.
Sometimes you can feel it onthe yard.
I've walked into the chow halland it's quiet, nobody's talking
.
You know something is going tohappen sometime.
They're just waiting for whoand when they get there.
So when you're dealing with that, your mindset is, it's volatile
(11:04):
, it's going to go, and then youhave to be ready.
Now it took a number of yearsfor me to one get out of my own
way or cut the tie that washolding me back, and I really
had to do it.
It took some time to adjust toit and once I made my decision,
it took time to actually getaway from the people I was with,
(11:25):
because they were a comfortzone.
You know, if you're going to gointo war.
You want to go to war with somesavages, so you develop the
savage mentality and it takestime to get rid of that.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Right, and you're talking about time out, since
you've been out and you had toyou had to unlearn some
behaviors that don't work.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
I'm still unlearning them.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
What's been the hardest one you had to unlearn
Sitting in a restaurant where Ican't see everybody.
So you know cause, like whenyou're in a chow hall you're
looking for threats.
Everybody's a threat in prisonunless you know them, and then
sometimes your friends could bea threat too.
But so when I go to arestaurant I have to sit to
where I see the door and I seethe majority of people.
(12:12):
I can't sit in the middle.
I got to sit along a wall, sothat way I know nobody's behind
me.
Now I've gotten to the point towhere, eh, I'll sit over there,
I'm good, let's go.
Yeah, you know, because I haveto take that mentality.
Not everybody is a threat, youknow.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I still look around the room, at least to the level.
Yeah, at least to the levelthey were in prison, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I still look around and see who's who who in body
language and see if anybody'spissed off or anything, but I
I'm comfortable enough to sit inthe middle of the room.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
It's huge.
Do you remember?
Well, tell me about so instarting your business, which is
interesting.
There was a guest we had onrecently that uh for former for
recovering addicts and somepeople coming out of prison or
just people who've.
They're getting a rough startin life because they can't find
jobs because they were addictsor they broke laws or whatever
else you probably should connectto who's in California but he
(13:07):
has food trucks and he helpsguys learn to own their own and
his idea was if I can help themfind a place to get a job and a
talent and own something that'stheir only chance for employment
is self-employment.
It really, for the most part,it is right no-transcript my
(13:39):
anger, my hatred for everybodyelse.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Wow Now, I never grew up racist.
Even though California prisonsis extremely racist, I've never
grown up in a racist attitude.
My stepdad is Black, before hepassed two years ago.
My sister and my niece are bothmixed.
I have a Vietnamesebrother-in-law.
I got Mexican family members.
(14:02):
I mean, we just have a plethoraof people in our family tree,
but in prison you only isolatewith those that you identify
with.
So if you go in as a white boy,that's who you're going to be
talking to.
That's it, that's all.
It took me 10 years to changemy ethnicity from white to other
, and that was a journey initself because I had to break
(14:23):
away from that.
But I just.
I was at the point where Ihated everybody.
So that way, if anybody came atme, I couldn't be like dude,
you were my friend, what youknow, it was just cut it be mad
at everybody.
So that way, the angers thereor something were to happen.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
It's almost like a defense mechanism.
At that point to stay alive, Ican't trust anyone, so I got to
hate everyone, so I got to beready to go without hesitation,
absolutely.
So, once you got out, you gotthat journey to get out.
Do you remember the moment,though, when you were going to
let go of the anger?
When you got out, or maybe itwas before?
I should ask the question toeveryone when did you know you
were going to have to break thatanger cycle?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I went to a self-help group.
It's called phases I don'tremember what the acronym was,
but it was a really powerfulmoment of the guy that was
speaking.
Him and his wife went away forthe weekend for their 10 year
anniversary, asked the neighborto watch their daughter while
they were gone.
He came home, found a videotapeand a VCR.
(15:28):
Yes, this is older days, youknow, we don't have VCRs, no
more.
But he, the neighbor,videotaped himself molesting his
daughter.
So he went next door, beat thisguy up very badly, did some
horrible things to him butdidn't kill him.
He didn't want to kill him.
He left them with the Klossbybag for the rest of his life.
(15:52):
His daughter came up to visitand said Daddy, why are you in
jail?
He said when you get older I'llexplain it to you because you
won't understand now.
So when she turned 16, she wentback up for her birthday and
she said Daddy, for my birthday,I want to know why you were in
jail.
He said because I didn'tprotect you.
Her answer excuse me.
(16:14):
Her answer said Daddy, who'sprotecting me now?
And it was at that moment hecut everything away.
That's when I realized I haveto start cutting people out too.
I got to come home and it's,it's powerful.
You know who's protecting menow?
Speaker 1 (16:35):
It's hard, it's unmanageable.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah, you know, and we think at the time we're gonna
punish this person for doingwhat they did to me and my
family, but ultimately you'rethe one punishing yourself.
You have to let the authoritiesdo it, give them all the
evidence.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
You got to step away and that's one of the hardest
things to do yes, it soundsbrutally because, uh, in the
moment you know you're, uh, thepart of the brain that's
supposed to think like thatshuts off, ends you absolutely.
I mean, like it's like thatwould the level of rage that
(17:15):
that guy probably, you know thefact he didn't kill him is
amazing to me, though I'mprobably, probably, he probably
would if she would have, becausehe probably ended up in the
same spot.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
But yeah, they gave him attempted murder and gave
him a life sentence for it.
And he, he looked at the judge.
He says your honor, I didn'twant to kill him, otherwise he
would have been dead.
I want him to know every timehe has to clean his cloth me bag
this is a direct result of whatshe did and he was just Did the
(17:44):
guy go to jail for assaultingthe daughter?
I don't know.
We didn't ask that question atthat time.
Yeah, that would be irrelevantat this point.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
To me.
It's crazy, by the way, didsome guy gets a life sentence
unless he had priors forsomething that's unlikely to be
repeated Like such extreme?
It's not like it was like thedude cut him off and he beat the
shit out of him and it's likethis guy right, you know it's
some very personable.
That happened that you knowlike like unlikely that was
going to happen again.
Yeah, you should serve sometime, no question, but forever
(18:17):
that who's that help?
Anyway, crazy.
You know that that's a.
That's a very powerful moment.
By the way, you want to comeback to that.
That.
You saw it and since then,maybe, maybe before you talk
about the impact it's had onyour life, how did you take that
first step to let the anger go?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
So when I went back to my cell and I was, I was
figuring that out and I put onsome music and the song that
came on is Michael Jackson's manin the mirror and if you
actually listen to it, it's youwant to make that change.
Be that change is what he'ssaying.
And I was like, okay, I got tofigure this out, I got to make
(18:59):
this change.
I got to do this.
So I went around and found somefacilitators, asked them what
groups were coming up, took abunch of groups at that point
and because I'm taking groups,it's less time for me hanging
around the people that I werehanging around with and then it
slowly started distancing mefrom them, which was the best
thing I needed.
And then it just from there, itwas a ripple effect.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
It just like good things just started opening up
and happening for me.
Did the impact?
Is that the reason you wereable to get out?
Yes, without it you don't think.
You think you're still in there.
Absolutely, wow, absolutely.
That is impact, because now youget to be around your family
and make friends and new friendsand start a whole new life.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah, and I get to meet you, so that was kind of
awesome.
There you go.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I like it, man.
I love that.
I love to hear people doturnarounds.
I mean, would we have beenfriends at 16?
Probably not.
Probably not while you'reincarcerated either, but I can
be friends.
Probably not while you'reincarcerated either, but I can
be friends with you.
Yes, hey, listen, I couldalways use somebody with a
swivel of a head looking out forthe threats, because I'm
clueless.
I'm the instigator typicallyNot anymore in my old life, but
my eve.
I was definitely the instigator.
(20:13):
I never was the one that gotcaught.
It was always somebody else.
To be fair, I wasn't robbinganything or causing.
I wasn't to that degree.
We're talking like TP in ahouse.
Anyway, all right.
So tell me about this a littlebit.
You made the change.
You cut the tie to anger.
You take the first steps groups.
You start dissing stuff frompeople who have like-minded
thinking.
You have to go to a new group.
(20:34):
What was the impact?
You know, initially.
You know, isolating yourself inprison, I would guess, is not a
good thing because you'revulnerable to all.
But then what's the?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
impact sense.
Well, when you leave one groupof friends and you're doing
self-help groups, now it's adifferent, like-minded group of
people that we're talking about,people who are trying to change
, that are changing, that wantto go home.
So then my mind started workingwith them.
So then we developed brand newprograms called annual cultural
(21:08):
awareness days, where we set upinside of a gym 27 tables.
We have different ethnic groups, races, cultures.
Everybody come together andspend eight hours talking about
their individual culture so thatway other people can identify
and learn more about them.
And like, one of the things thatwe did is we we kind of picked
(21:29):
on the Muslims for it becausethey had the most.
Everybody was worried about whythey do what they do.
They pray five times a day,they put out a mat, they bow
down, they they subjugatethemselves and they were like,
why do they do that?
But people are afraid to askthem because then they make them
defensive.
Why are you asking me what'sgoing on?
(21:50):
So this here was a way todiffuse all that Ask your
questions, get it out there, andonce that happened, the
administration seen that we weretrying to change.
We were trying to change theculture in prison to where we
knew more about each other andit just hey, how would you like
to do this, how would you liketo do this?
I could really use your helpdoing this and it just became a
(22:10):
bigger, bigger, bigger thing.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
So that's fantastic and now you've taken that
afterwards, it got you out ofprison and I mean one of the
things, I'm sure, but that's abig one to be able to say I
changed my outlook in life,right, and you applying that, it
sounds like then, to your, your, your business a bit.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yes, the whole thing is.
I think society benefitsgreatly from helping other
people, not yourself, Notyourself.
You know you can have men planta tree that's not going to have
shade for another 70 years.
They're probably not going tobe around in 70 years.
That shade is for somebody elsebehind them and it just makes
(22:50):
life so much better because it'snot about you.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
It's about helping other people.
That's beautiful.
What's your advice to alistener?
I mean, it seems like you couldhave quite a bit of it, but if
you had to distill life advicedown to a listener right now, I
would ask the five what's?
Speaker 2 (23:10):
And it really is what's holding you back?
What's in your way?
You know and just keep going.
You got to ask that about fivetimes to really cut the fat away
from the actual problem,because we'll dress up a problem
like I can't get a job?
Well, why can't I get a job?
Well, nobody's hiring.
Well, let's cut that out theway, because people are hiring.
(23:31):
So what's holding you back?
Well, I don't want to work inMcDonald's because they make low
money or it's beneath me.
Well, let's cut that out.
Okay, let's figure it out,let's do this.
And I've seen one guy say well,I'll never work in McDonald's
because I'm not going to have no24-year-old kid be my manager.
(23:51):
I'm 50.
So what if he's your manager?
You're making some money,you're earning an honest income.
You're not going back to prison, you're not chasing drugs.
What's your problem?
Put your ego and your pride tothe side, get out of your way
and move forward.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
It's crazy to me.
It's like you don't need to gowork for anyone.
You can make six figures as aplumber or an electrician and
they don't care.
You went to prison.
They care that you show upevery day on the job.
Learn your shit, do the thingsyou're supposed to do.
Hand me a pipe when I asked fora pipe.
Hand me a tool and ask you fora tool, and at some point you'll
do the stuff.
Like to me, it's like you.
You can.
(24:30):
You can learn a trade at anypoint and in four years you can
be a master plumber.
Four years you could be amaster electrician, which means
you can own a business and itmeans you can employ people.
And it's me.
It's like you can get out andyou can start.
You could start doing somethingtoday.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Because like one of the best books I've ever read,
and and I actually have it hereand it's one of your questions
that you that you had asked me,and it's seven moments that
define excellent leaders.
All right, it's by Lee J Cullenand this book is amazing.
It's really simple read.
It's not like it's a bold printor a fine print.
(25:11):
It's not like it's a bold printor a fine print.
It's really easy.
And he said he had a friend whowanted to go to medical school,
but it was four years.
He said so how old are yougoing to be in four years?
He's like well, I'm going to be34.
He said okay, so if you go tomedical school in four years,
how old are you going to be?
He's like 34.
He says so what's holding youback?
Just do it Four years Okay.
(25:34):
So if it's four years to be amaster electrician, do it In
four years it's like you'rebroke.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
You actually make good 50, 60, 70 K a year being
an electrician's hell helper.
It's like you're broke gonethrough the years.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah, my little brother.
He went to prison for sevenyears, eight months, learned how
to be a welder, got certifiedin prison to be a welder.
Now he's home.
He's got his own plumbinglicense, he's got his general
electrician's license, he's gothis general contractor's license
and he's got a boilerplatelicense.
He's been home for 18 years.
(26:11):
He smashed it.
He's been home for 18 years.
He smashed it.
He's making great money, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
So I have kids who have not yet served any time,
but hopefully they won't.
But I look at the cost of likecollege and I compare it to what
say well, you know, go suck upyour pride of what you think you
should be titled.
Go get a crack in your ass andgo be a plumber for four years
and by the end of it, by thetime you're 22, when you could
have gotten on Cone's you'dmight be you know I'll.
(26:37):
I'll put you some businessclasses so you can learn how to
run a business.
But you can go and build amultimillion dollar plumbing
company by knowing plumbing orby knowing a HVAC services or
some type of like absolutelyessential service.
To me that's like for anybodyreally.
But specifically when no onewill hire you and they ask you
the question hey, have you evercommitted a felony or whatever
(26:58):
else?
And you're like I'm asked tojust stop applying at this point
, unless the person who owns abusiness was a felon at some
point Unlikely you're going toget the job, so why fight that
and get angry about it?
Go build your own life aroundit.
If anything you probablylearned is you can.
You can stick out hard shit ifyou got out of prison.
So learning a new tradeshouldn't be nearly as hard as
(27:20):
23 hours a day in a small littlecell, worried of something to
come there and shank you.
I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know.
I'm talking my ass because you,you know the world, I don't.
I'm just saying I just watchedmovies and the horrible history
channel ones where I'm like Holycow, these super maxes.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yeah, have you seen Shawshank redemption?
I have, okay.
So when red goes to the paroleboard, he's like, yeah, I'm just
up for rejection.
Because when I got locked up,that's how it was we had Duke
Bayesian as governor.
He was no murderers getting outof my watch.
Pete Wilson stepped in.
(27:59):
He said the same thing nomurderers getting out of my
watch.
And it was Gray Davis when hestepped in.
Nobody's going home on my watch.
So when we went to the board weknew we weren't going home.
That was out.
So why are we even trying atsome point?
Because if you already knowthey're not going to give it to
(28:19):
you, why bother?
You know and it took PeteWilson to be recalled Governor
Schwarzenegger stepped in and hebecame governor in 1994.
And that was when we firststarted seeing lifers go home.
It was few and far between, butwe saw some go home.
That's when we started gettinga little bit of glimmer and a
(28:39):
little bit of hope.
Now, granted, he was lettingsome ex-officers who got life
sentences for doing some verypoor shooting on the line of
duty and they got life sentences, but at least somebody was
going home and it just slowlyhelped.
When Governor Brown came backinto office.
(29:00):
He helped out too.
He's seen that a lot of peoplehad changed and then he had
started changing the policy.
So when it comes down to it, inseeing Shawshank Redemption, he
goes in 10 years, I'm up forrejection.
Goes back 10 years later, I'mup for rejection.
The last time he goes in thereit's 30 years later.
He says, what's rehabilitationto you?
(29:24):
And he's like, well, this iswhat it means to you.
But this is what I would say tothat kid 30 years ago.
And they found him suitable.
And it's almost the same typeof mentality.
It's like, yeah, I'm going upfor this thing and I'll be back
in a couple hours.
Let's play some more cards ordominoes on the yard.
And then finally, peoplestarted going home.
(29:44):
We had to start taking it moreserious.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yeah, I mean it gives you hope.
Speaking of hope, a littlerapid fire question section who?
Speaker 2 (29:57):
gives your inspiration.
A lot of people actually, and Ican't really put it on one
person, but like I'll see anelderly person sitting down on a
chair and he'll be eating somegelato or ice cream or something
and I'll talk to him and askhim about his life, that's the
normal person who gives meinspiration is because one they
(30:20):
made it to where they're atRight.
Dude, I'm 50, coming up to be53.
I want to be 70 years old and Inever thought I'd make it past
20.
I mean, I went to, I went toold Folsom in 1990 as a 18 year
old kid.
I never thought I was going tomake six months, so every day is
(30:41):
a blessing for me.
So everybody that's stillgetting by, knowing that they
have hardships, they havetroubles, they have family
issues, they have mental healthproblems, they're still getting
by.
Even the people mental healthproblems, they're still getting
by.
Even the people that arehomeless, they're still getting
by.
They're not dead and that's thepeople who give me hope.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Beautiful as your business is growing, in pieces
like this.
What's been the best businessadvice you've received?
In pieces like this, you knowwhat's been the best business
advice you've received.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Be mindful of the client, really be mindful of it,
because it's not easy foreverybody, especially dealing
with us coming home.
We don't do groups like thisthat often.
It's very difficult.
It's one.
We got to take time out of ourschedule On Monday through
Friday.
You're working your butt offSaturday and Sunday.
(31:37):
You kind of want to kick back.
You want to drink a beer, sitby the pool if you have one, get
a blow up pool, like I do.
You know it doesn't have to befancy, but I have a blow up pool
.
Yes, I do.
It's really nice too and justkick back and relax and enjoy
the finer things light.
But if I have to drive an hour,spend two hours and come back,
that's four hours out of my day.
(31:57):
That's gone and some would sayit's wasted.
But it's really not.
If you were to break it down,let's do a 30 minute zoom call
with three or four people, oreven one-on-one, and let's just
talk about some of our issues.
Now that we're home, let's justbe real.
We need a place where we aresafe and we don't have to worry
about anybody else.
Nobody's trying to get leverageon anybody out here.
(32:18):
We're just trying to help eachother and that's the whole key,
you know.
And and it starts with cause Iwas on one of these meetings and
for 45 minutes nobody wanted totalk and I was, like trying to
text the moderator, like youneed to start this, you need to
open it up.
You know, you need to becomevulnerable and let these people
(32:39):
know what's going on.
And that's when I startedspeaking up and dudes like, all
right, well, we're out of time.
I'm like we're in a role, don't, don't cut the time.
You know, if people have to getoff, they'll tell us hey, I
don't have the time we were in,right?
Speaker 1 (32:54):
now you would have been stabbed for saying that no,
don't say, that Don't say.
But it would have been funny.
You're lucky we're not in rightnow.
I would have shank over.
When in your life would youhave started over and what would
you do differently?
Speaker 2 (33:16):
I think 1989, I wouldn't have left my house that
night.
I mean that would be a goodstart over, but I was still
angry, so I probably would havedied somewhere along the lines
During this process.
You know, and a lot, lot ofpeople say, would you go back
and do things differently?
And for a while I was saying,yes, but with this I've learned
(33:38):
so much, I've grown so much andI know I can help more people.
So I think just getting out ofmy own way and starting this
when I came home would have beenbetter instead of waiting.
It's it's five years.
I should have.
I should have had my book done,published on my second or third
book by now, you know, andthat's the problem, because we
(34:00):
get complacent.
I mean, I've been to Daga Bay,I've been to Disneyland, I've
been to Universal Studios,hollywood, I'm traveling up and
down the state of California.
I want to travel, I want to seethings, but here's the thing If
you're doing this, then youdon't have time for this.
So you have to make time andcreate it for what you need to
(34:21):
do, and I think I would havedone that differently back then,
instead of traveling to allthose places and enjoying my
life start that, but I treasurethese moments in these days, so
yeah, I would.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
I would say you're uh , you're doing the right thing
by doing the moments in life.
The number one rule of writinga book is you have to
procrastinate.
It's that simple.
So that's that's how you writea book.
95% of his procrastination, 5%,is writing and finishing it.
So if you haven't hit your 95,yeah, if you haven't you're on.
(34:56):
Listen, I think you're on adifferent path, and one that
you're creative for yourself,not one that was created for you
, right?
And so, whatever your childhoodwas, it made you angry.
Whatever's happened now in yourlife.
It sounds hard, I'm notdismissing it, but it is now in
the past and it's made you whoyou are and what you'll become
today.
So you get to choose everymoment moving forward, and I
don't think you're making badchoices by.
(35:17):
I'm going to go enjoyDisneyland is not a bad choice.
I'm going to get shit faced andall sleep in the pool.
Probably there's better choicesin that one, but exactly, and
that's just it.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
It's a choice, not a mistake.
It's a choice.
You're a big guy.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
I mean you have one too many and get a little
aggressive.
In that pool it's popping.
I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
You're taking it down .
Speaker 1 (35:39):
You do not look like a small man.
You want to be careful.
Take it easy on your pool, allright.
If there was one question Ishould have asked you today and
I didn't, what was that questionand how would you have answered
it?
Speaker 2 (35:51):
I actually have it written here.
So the one question would bewhat are some of the issues or
traumas you have today becauseof your incarceration?
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Because that's where it comes down to.
I told you a whole podcast onthis answer.
What is that answer?
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Well, when are we doing the second podcast?
No, I'm kidding.
Well, when are we doing thesecond podcast?
No, I'm kidding, you were, uh,you're.
So it really is.
Oh, awesome, like when me andmy girlfriend are going out to
the store or restaurant orsomething.
I exit my home first and I lookaround the street for any
threats.
I know there's not none.
I have an officer that livesnext door to me, but I still
(36:28):
look.
Look, I'll walk her to the car.
I'll open the car door, I'llput her in the car.
Then I'll go around because I'mdriving, I'm defensive driving,
I'm looking everywhere.
I'm checking every mirror,looking for everything.
When we get out, I get outfirst.
I walk around and I'm looking,surveilling the parking lot for
threats.
I'll open her door.
(36:53):
Let's go in, we go in.
I'm the first one in the storeand I get it.
Gentlemen are supposed to holdthe door open for her.
I'll hold it up behind me assoon as she has it.
Then I'm going in making surethat there's no threat.
And it's hard because it's justme being programmed that way in
prison.
You have friends that you arewith.
They know how to identifythreats as well.
My girlfriend does not.
I'm looking for body language,posture, the whole anger,
(37:17):
everything.
I'm checking hands as peopleare walking.
So even when we come out, I'mthe first one out of the store,
I'm checking everything, I'mputting her in the car and it's
just.
These are little traumas thatwe have and it's really not a
trauma, I guess, but there'sjust so much.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
I don't.
I mean that's, I don't evenknow.
When veterans come home,military come home, and they're
trying to assimilate them tobecome civilians.
One of my guests she said don't, you're a veteran, you're
always a veteran, so act likeone.
This is something that's been,will now be, from the majority
of your life, right, and and ithas its benefits and everything
else as well, except that thatyou just feel you're a little
(38:01):
bit more aware and safer becauseyou have a reality of life of
how it kind of really can be.
I don't think it's a negative.
It may be annoying, but thetruth is just that's who I am,
that's who I do it, becausethat's who I am now and maybe
over time it'll, and I think Idon't think you should beat
yourself up with that becauseit's it's just like you could
probably go crazy trying tobreak that and it doesn't really
(38:22):
add the value that you're goingto want it to once you do.
I don't know.
No, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
No, I don't know.
Now one thing there are acouple of things before we close
out, because I know we'rerunning out of time.
But I was arrested on February19th, 1989.
Okay, february 19th.
I was released on February 19thof 2020.
(38:50):
31 years to the day, wow, okay.
I was 16 years when I wasincarcerated right, 16 years old
.
If you double that, it's 32years.
Okay, I did one year shy of twothirds of my life in prison.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
This is what I know.
This is my fifth year home.
I got locked up when I was 16.
I don't smoke, I generally takecare of myself.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
I should have a good 30 years of cognitive ability
left and I'm 49 or 48 at thetime, but 49.
And the point was I basicallyjust graduated high school,
again with 30 years of knowledge.
You're coming out.
If you kind of keep it together, you should have at least good
20 to 30 years of good cognitiveability, with some pains
towards the ends.
But the truth is you're justkind of getting out again and
(39:56):
now you're starting over with abunch more knowledge of the way
of the world.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
So you got to go pick what that is when my girlfriend
took me to different places,she said it was like watching
the world through the eyes of atwo-year-old, because everything
was new to me.
See, when I got locked up at 89, it was first month last month
(40:20):
of the down payment for rent.
Now it's credit.
Do you have credit?
When did that happen?
Speaker 1 (40:28):
I mean cash.
If you pay for a full year ofrent in advance, most people not
only will discount it for you,they will accept it.
Cash wins too.
How do you get that much cash?
What you got to do is sell moreshit and have it cost less.
Oh okay, it's really easy.
Actually, you sell somethingfor less than you paid for it,
(40:48):
and that difference is oh wordsof wisdom right there.
Right, I will tell you, though,like, but like.
Even when you're doing yourbook and you're doing your group
, there's always like now youhave.
There's nothing stopping you.
Like you can, you can learn atrade as well, and you can have
side hustles.
You can do whatever you need todo, that's you know that it to
(41:08):
make money.
It just depends on what youwant to go do and what you will
go do.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
I make jewelry on the side.
I started in prison makingjewelry, I saved up $200 in
prison and I made 1800 off of it.
So it's, it's a crazy hustle.
Yeah, I mean, granted, myaudience was right there in
front of me.
I mean, they couldn't gonowhere, they were just buying
my stuff.
(41:33):
But you know, hey, I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
I know a guy that that makes pens as his hobby so
he buys all the components andmakes custom pens, like people
writing oh, wow you know thatthing that people do sometimes
and yeah, he'll.
He'll sell them for four or fivehundred bucks a piece.
His material is like a hundredbucks.
It'll take like two daysbecause he gets in the weed with
it and does it, and then hesells these custom pens for
ceremony or whatever else.
That's cool Side hustle.
(41:59):
I'll tell you a side hustle.
Hold on, I'll say goodbye onthe show and we'll talk here in
a second.
Danny, thanks so much forjoining me today on the podcast.
I've really enjoyed theconversation and your journey.
Appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
And those listening listen getout there.
Go cut a tie to somethingholding you back.
Really unleash the best versionof yourself.
Become the entrepreneur youalways wanted to.
(42:20):
No-transcript.
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