Cut The Tie Podcast
Episode 270
What happens when a high-powered attorney walks away from a 20-year career to launch a beauty brand built around healing? In this vulnerable and inspiring episode of Cut the Tie, host Thomas Helfrich sits down with Ling Ling Nie, founder of Tender Cosmetics, a company reshaping how we think about beauty, with products that feel as good as they look.
Ling Ling opens up about health scares, identity struggles, and her journey from burnout to bold reinvention. She shares how stepping away from law helped her reconnect with her creativity, build a more sustainable life, and create a brand focused on self-care and empowerment.
About Ling Ling Nie:
Ling Ling Nie is the founder of Tender Cosmetics, a premium beauty brand designed around a unique cooling effect that refreshes the skin and uplifts the wearer. Before founding Tender, she spent two decades as a successful attorney and in-house counsel. After a health crisis forced her to rethink everything, Ling Ling cut ties with the career that defined her and stepped into a more purpose-driven, balanced path as a founder and creative entrepreneur.
In this episode, Thomas and Ling Ling discuss:
- Why redefining success starts with reclaiming your health
Ling Ling shares how a medical emergency forced her to reassess her identity, priorities, and purpose, eventually leading her to leave law and launch her own beauty brand. - How Tender Cosmetics was born out of healing
More than a makeup line, Tender is a reflection of Ling Ling’s personal transformation. Each product is designed to help people feel good, especially in life’s hardest moments. - What it really takes to cut the tie to your career identity
Ling Ling explains how she untangled her self-worth from professional titles and learned to value herself beyond performance. - The power of diversifying your identity
From volunteering in hospital emergency departments to launching a startup, Ling Ling talks about the importance of exploring new roles—and finding success in unexpected places.
Key Takeaways:
- Your job is not your identity
Tying your entire self-worth to a career is a recipe for burnout. You’re more than your title. - Healing can be a brand mission
Beauty isn’t just how you look—it’s how you feel. Products can restore confidence and energy, especially during life’s low points. - Just start—even if you don’t know it all
Perfection kills momentum. You don’t need to know everything before you begin. - Be curious about yourself
Try new things. Follow strange ideas. Growth happens when you step outside the role you’ve always played.
Connect with Ling Ling Nie:
💄 Website: www.tender-cosmetics.com
📸 Instagram: @tender.cosmetics
📸 Instagram: @_linglingnie_
💼 LinkedIn: Ling Ling Nie
Connect with Thomas Helfrich:
🐦 Twitter: @thelfrich
📘 Facebook: Cut the Tie Group
💼 LinkedIn: Thomas Helfrich
🌐 Websi
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Cut the Tie podcast.
Hi, I'm your host, thomasHelfrich, and I'm on a mission
to help you cut the tie towhatever it is holding you back
in your life from success.
Now that success does need tobe defined by you or you will be
chasing someone else's dream.
I am joined today by with LingLing.
Ling Ling, that's not your fullname.
Is it Ni or Nye or Nye?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Ling Ling is my first name.
Ni is my last name.
I have an actual sort of formalChinese name but I don't go by
that.
I go by Ling Ling.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Okay, for just entertainment purposes, let me
try to pronounce it it's KuiLing.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Ni is my Chinese yeah .
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Is that right, kui Ling?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Kui Ling.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Kui Ling.
Yeah, yeah, perfect, it's yourniece.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Now I'll be like, okay, yeah, that's right, just
say my name over and over again.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I'll be speaking Chinese, in no time, nice to see
you, and will you just take amoment introduce yourself and
what it is you do.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Sure Ling Ling Ni.
I'm the founder of TenderCosmetics.
I'm based here in Atlanta and Istarted Tender in 2022 and then
launched the brand online inJanuary this year.
Tender Cosmetics is a premiummakeup brand.
It's known for its creamyproducts that also have this
(01:13):
unique cooling effect when youapply it to your skin, and it
keeps you refreshed throughoutthe day.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Well, very good.
Well, as an Atlanta person aswell, that's very cool.
So now I can get some stuff formy forehead wrinkles.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Forehead wrinkles you look great.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Zoom.
It's a great zoom.
It's just, it's a gray filter.
Let's just leave there.
You see me, but I can actuallywatch clothes, not only on his
abs.
That that's not even true, andand it's gonna be anyway.
Sorry, see you, you'reexpecting one thing and now
you've you set me in a whole newdirection for a loop oh well,
all right, very cool, so allright.
There are a lot of cosmeticsbrands out there.
Uh, why did people pick yours?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Well, I think what makes what makes Tinder unique
is that we prioritize how beautyactually feels, not just how it
looks.
It's that sensorial experiencethat really is at the center of
our brand, and that coolingsensation is what sets us apart,
in my opinion.
So the person wearing theproducts not only looks great,
(02:10):
but they also feel great, and so, in that way, these products
kind of give back to the personwearing them, which is not
something you typically see.
And you know why I starteddeveloping these products was
because of some health issues Ihad as a result of being a
workaholic.
To be frank, I've been anattorney for 20 years now.
It's a very stressful job tohave, and I neglected my health
for a really long time andultimately got pretty ill and I
(02:32):
spent years having to, kind of,you know, put myself back
together.
But one of the good things thatcame out of that was wanting to
create products that would helpother people feel great, so
that they can, you know, thrivein whatever they set out to do.
Did you become an attorney whenyou were like 12?
Speaker 1 (02:44):
that would help other people feel great, so that they
can thrive in whatever they setout to do.
Did you become?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
an attorney when you were like 12?
No, I started practicing.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
I was a licensed attorney at age 24.
And now you're full-time intoTinder Cosmetics.
You've left that world.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yeah, I left my legal career.
I'm not sure if it's forever,but at least for some time I
left my legal career, you knowat least.
You know I'm not sure if it'sforever, but you know at least
for a time for some time.
I left it in in March and soI've been working exclusively
full time on building TenderCosmetics because I felt like it
really needed some dedicatedtime.
When things started reallyramping up, I just felt like
Tender was gaining, likewhatever was left over at the
end of the day in terms ofenergy, so I just really wanted
(03:23):
to take the time to give it mybest.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, you put the script on it.
That's hard to do and we'reprobably going to explore that
here in a minute.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Take a moment here, though define, you know, before
we get into your journey, andkind of the metaphoric ties that
you've cut to get where you are.
How do you currently definesuccess?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I think there are two ways that I define success.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I mean for me and a lot of people, especially a lot
of the people that have beenguests on your show, I'm sure,
success means the freedom tospend your time the way you want
to.
That's one way I define success.
But you know, I also know thatyou can't be successful, you
know, on your own and help fromother people is really key.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
So success for me is also being able to help others
discover their talents and helpthem along their journey in the
same way that others have helpedme.
Well, tell me about yourjourney a little bit.
And to achieve that success,what was kind of the biggest tie
you've had to cut?
Yeah, I think one of thecontributing reasons that I
think led me to neglect myhealth in the past is that I
tied my identity solely to mylegal career, and that's a tie
that I had to cut because whatthat did was make me value
myself, you know, only throughmy career accomplishments and I
(04:44):
became kind of a one-dimensionalperson, which is probably not
that exciting to be around andpretty harmful in the long run,
because that investment, youknow, of all my energy and my
time into my legal career didnot allow me to develop a system
to value myself outside of workand that would have brought a
lot more equilibrium, I think,and sustainability to that
equation for me.
Having said that, I do thinkthat a high degree of intensity
(05:05):
is necessary at times, you know,particularly if you have a
specific goal that you're tryingto chase and you know being
overweighted in your career iskind of part of that sacrifice
you make to be successful.
But I just don't think it'spossible to operate in that gear
forever without suffering sometype of consequence.
Um, you know, there's thatexpression like if your laptop
is acting up, you know, go aheadand unplug it, and then when
(05:27):
you plug it back in, it seems towork perfectly again.
So I think you can, definitelycan and should at times kind of
go all in in your career, butyou do have to also be set and
sort of unplug, so to speak, tomake sure your body, you know,
and your mind can actuallysupport, you know, your ambition
.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Was your, was the?
Was the career?
First of all, acknowledge that.
Yes, I struggle with this too.
I think many people do strugglewith the idea that your
identity is not wrapped up inyour work somehow and it is.
I mean if you're separated andyou're creating duality of life,
and that's not healthy either.
So it is part of the journey.
It can't be the only part ofthe journey.
But did you find that, thatthat definition of success back
(06:07):
when you're an attorney andyou're chasing it was?
Was that something you definedor was that something parents or
other influences were saying?
That's what you should do.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Experience as an Asian American, especially one
whose parents immigrated here inthat, you know, I was sort of
told what I was going to be whenI grow up and I grew up in a
culture where you don't reallychallenge that.
So from a very young age myparents wanted me to be a lawyer
.
So that's what I did and Ididn't, you know, disagree with
them.
I said that sounds great, I'lldo that.
But it wasn't really sort ofthat self-selection to be an
(06:43):
attorney.
So when the pressure got really, really intense, I didn't sort
of have that purpose to fallback on to keep me going, and
that was a very challengingthing to deal with and sort of
part of why wrapping myself upin this identity that wasn't
really one I'd chosen for myselfwas a struggle.
Not to sound ungrateful, I'mglad I'm a lawyer.
(07:03):
It's been a really fruitfulcareer for me and I really do
enjoy it now.
But when you didn't gravitatetowards something, quite
naturally because of your ownpersonal interests, when the
pressure comes, I think the wayyou cope and the way you manage
it is really different.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Spot on.
So when I coach work withentrepreneurs, the first thing
we do on day one is a three Pexercise, which is your, your
passion, your potentials, yourskills, and then you're the
problem you solve.
And if those three bubblesaren't of some size, you don't
go there.
You got to rethink one of them.
And if your passion keepsshrinking, shrinking, shrinking,
shrinking, and it doesn'tmatter how big your skills are,
(07:42):
how big of a problem you solve,eventually you won't have a
center to go after, uh, and your, your light and your eye
direction will go someplace else, and and that's that's.
That's a great thing, becausethen you're really kind of,
you're moving to where you'resupposed to have gone or where
you're when you're supposed togo.
So I I think it's very natural,um, but do you look?
I guess mary's question is doyou look?
I guess Mary's question is doyou look at it, as this happened
(08:04):
for me or happened to me?
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Oh, I never.
I will never subscribe to thebelief that life is happening to
me.
I firmly believe you have tohave this sort of mental model
in your mind that you're't wantto happen.
But if you adopt a mindset thatit's happening to me, you take
away the agency and the actualchoices.
(08:27):
You do have to sort of putthings back on track.
So yeah, I believe that there'sa choice in every situation.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
I mean especially set up a new company.
I got the legal part.
We're easy here, we're good,Don't need counsel on that one.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I've worked in-house primarily for most of my career
as a lawyer, so justunderstanding how business
operate, that was really helpfuland it gave me a little bit of
a leg up to kind of know whatit's like to set up a company
and then sort of know thedifferent work streams involved
in running a business.
You know that's not something Iwould have had had I not worked
in-house for years.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, I mean you can draw upon the advantage of it.
For sure that's a pretty goodone.
Because you're like I don'tknow, we're talking about a
contract.
I'll actually read it.
It's like to us other layman'swe just throw in the GPT and say
, hey, what's wrong with it?
Which is actually still prettyhelpful for negotiation.
But we'll take that on adifferent show.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
GPT is great.
You know, I'm not going to sayI didn't do that.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
I hired a attorney not so long ago for a fair
credit reporting act issue thathas popped up for me and we were
negotiating the deal and I waslike I put it in there and it
came back with a whole strategyof how and I got, like you know
know, a third instead of 48.
I did this whole, I did andthey, they took it.
They even argue.
I'm like, man, you guys, youguys got work anyway.
I'm not sure I should hire youas an attorney at this point.
(09:52):
I'm like you didn't evennegotiate with me, so you're all
right.
Well, in your own journey, thehealth things were huge.
A person without their healthhas but one dream, right, you
know, and if you have, if youhave it, you got a million.
So, and not asking you to getinto that as much, but it just
you have the moment, everyonehas it.
Some people say it's over time.
It's usually just one momentthat you realize I'm making the
(10:13):
move, I'm done.
Yeah, what was your moment.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
It's really hard I think you would agree and others
would agree.
It's really hard to change theway that you value yourself.
And it didn't happen for me,you know, in a single moment or
overnight.
It was kind of a long processto trying to discover who I am,
when I'm not being a lawyer.
But I do recall the firstmoment I realized that I had to
(10:39):
be serious about changing things, even though I didn't really
know exactly how I was going todo that.
But it was when I was in thehospital the night before I had
to have surgery and I remembersaying a prayer, you know, that
everything would go well and Ipromised myself that if
everything did go well, I'mgoing to turn things around and
you know I'm going to be.
I'm going to be that laptopthat gets unplugged for a bit so
(11:01):
I could create a healthier lifefor myself.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Good for you and that I mean that's really a moment
About to go on.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Renee, when you're punched in the face with your
mortality you know it's trueyour entire perspective changes
and all the things that were soimportant to you just seem so
trivial and you just want tofeel better.
You don't want to be laying ina hospital bed.
You know watching the world goby and people having you know
amazing memories and experiences, and you're just laying here.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
It's very sobering I don't want to go in the hospital
.
That's the sounds horrible.
Uh, sure, extended, but yougive it in and out.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Let's make that like a like a chick-fil-a speed, you
know well, during my, during myjourney in, in, in my health
journey you know it was allduring COVID, so I couldn't even
have visitors and the entiretime I was in the hospital I
never saw a single face, becauseeveryone was wrapped up in
masks and goggles and faceshields.
It was like I wasn't human.
(11:58):
You kind of felt like a scienceexperiment in some ways.
I bet you wish you had sometender cosmetics to cool your
shoes Well what's interesting isI I remember I would drag my
body out of bed every morningjust to put moisturizer on,
because it made me feel human.
It really made me feel humanagain, and that's something I
kept coming back to when I wasdeveloping a company, about why
(12:19):
I'm doing this and how it'simportant for people, especially
during difficult times, to feelgood about themselves.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
We'll move forward.
But I will tell you I don'twear makeup.
But if I did, I wouldn't wantplumper over my face because it
burns.
Just going to throw that outthere.
Cooling sounds better.
Cooling lips on cheeks is muchbetter than plumper burning a
hole in the side of my cheek,yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
I think so too.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
But cayenne pepper in the makeup should be flogged
with a rubber chicken.
There's one thing to know yourjourney and the tie you need to
cut.
And you got the moment.
But then there comes the how.
Yeah, and that's hardest,because it's commitment to a
moment that's now fading.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
It's like, oh, I'm OK , now Talk to me about your how
in actually taking on even morethings and adding more to my
plate.
But what that did was help mediversify my identity and that's
like a mantra I kind of live bynow is to diversify my identity
to see myself pursuing andactually enjoying things outside
of the legal career I'd been,you know, so devoted to.
(13:38):
So one example of somethingthat I did was I became an
emergency department volunteerat the hospital near me, and I
show up every other Saturdaymorning at 6 am and my job was
to make sure the staff had, like, all the medical supplies they
needed, that there were enoughwheelchairs at the entrance to
help patients and that thenurse's stations were fully
stocked.
And it was a completelydifferent exercise from what I'm
(14:01):
used to doing day to day, butit was truly rewarding.
And it was truly rewarding tosee myself being fulfilled and
successful at somethingdifferent.
And then, of course, the otheryou know big leap I took to
diversify my identity wasstarting my business, and that's
really kind of set me on a newcourse, both professionally and
personally, that I'm prettyexcited about.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Are you finding in your falling back the habits of
you're going to go way too fastinto the new thing and end up in
the same spot?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
No, I don't think I can ever allow myself to get to
that point again.
It was truly life altering tofind myself, you know, unwell
and unable to pursue the thingsthat really brought me joy, and
I mean I've got scars all overmy abdomen to remind me every
morning.
You know about what happenswhen you don't take care of
yourself.
So I'm fairly confident thatyou know I'll be able to pursue
(14:55):
sort of new endeavors with amuch healthier sense of sort of
equilibrium.
Just the idea of you and beingin the hospital again is quite
upsetting when you've been therefor a while.
So I'm fairly confident I cankeep things on track.
Of course I have sort of atendency to be a workaholic.
It's my DNA.
But I just got to keepreminding myself.
(15:17):
It's a daily sort of exercise.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
That's good.
Scars are cool.
If anybody doesn't know this,the more scars you have, the
better story is yours AlwaysAbout.
Scars concern me.
I don't know what they've beendoing in their life.
I mean, how have you not fallenoff of one thing?
Really, laudra Witch, you'reanyway got in a knife fight.
I don anyway got a knife fight.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I don't know no, you're right, you're right.
That's actually so much moreinteresting, though, to have
scars from a knife fight ratherthan scars from a story.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
You can tell the story however you want.
You gotta tell the rest of thestory.
You know it was a vicious nightfight in hong kong.
I was dizzy.
All I wanted was a mexican food, which you can't fall right.
Right anyways, I was lookingfor that atlanta barbecue down
down hong kong.
Uh got a knife fight over atri-tip steak right I can do
(16:05):
this for hours but I'm not goingto all right.
What's been the impact?
I mean, you've touched on a lotof it, but you know, maybe the
impact not even just to yourself, to others around you.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
You know just in life what's been your impact since I
mean, the impact hasreverberated just throughout
everything that I that I do now.
You know, when I stopped makingmy legal career, my entire
personality, my entire identity,it really was as if these like
blinders came off and I wasactually able to see and
appreciate all the world buzzingaround me.
(16:35):
You know, like nobody actuallycares about this new company
policy that I'm drafting andimplementing, you know, but I
was making it the most importantproblem on my plate and I would
think of nothing else until itwas like finished.
And again, I'm not advocatingagainst that level of, you know,
dedication to your job, but itcan't be, you know, at the cost
of shutting out the life aroundyou and the people you know who
(16:55):
love you.
That doesn't feel great.
It doesn't set you up forsustainable success.
That's another sort of mantra Irepeat to myself is sustainable
success.
And it was through that personaltransformation that I
discovered I wanted to developproducts that would actually
make you feel great andrefreshed and that can help you
start the day off with energyand with positivity, so that you
(17:16):
can really accomplish thethings that you want without,
you know, sacrificing yourwell-being.
And I think I also discoveredthat I really love expressing
myself creatively andartistically, which is not
something you get to do oftenwhen you're sort of just doing
day-to-day legal work.
But I get to do that now indesigning my packaging, in
creating photos and videocontent for my company and sort
(17:38):
of managing the website and allsorts of e-commerce things that
come with it.
So I feel like it's helped mesee and develop multiple
dimensions of myself, which isnot something that I could have
done had I not gone through thisexperience.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah, I mean listen, I have so many questions.
My little 10-year-old, sinceshe's eight, has been selling
light.
We make her own all natural lipbalm.
We make stuff.
She sells it at school and theytold her she can't sell school,
but she's like she got cash andeven the family.
I'll tell you right now, likethat girl, like I'm serious,
like she is, like she, she comesup with stuff.
So I've already bought a deepbraille for her to the natural
entrepreneur.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
That's amazing she.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
She says she's learning from daddy and I'm like
let me tell you all the stuffyou shouldn't do.
Um, watch what I'm doing anddon't do any of that, and then
no, I need an additionalquestion to be a layer, if
you'll take.
It is uh, you touched about itjust briefly and I wanted to
come back was you can't do italone and and so you talk to me
about maybe the relationshipsaround you that's been
supportive, not there there thathave formed sense.
(18:34):
Like just because I think thisis a part a lot of entrepreneurs
get stuck in, is this I'm alonesomewhere actually, and that's
just.
You're not going to go anywherereally, or it's very difficult,
and now they just feel alone.
You meet someone who is, whobelieves in you and can see
skills and talents that youdon't even recognize in yourself
.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
And so there was a period of time in my career in
my mid-30s that I met anattorney who has truly changed
my life in terms of helping medevelop some of these roles that
I never really considered wouldbe part of my career because I
just didn't think I had thepedigree for them or whatnot.
So in my legal career certainlythere have been very
influential people like that whohave basically sort of built
(19:54):
the bridge for me to go from onerole to the next.
And I try to do that for up andcoming attorneys as well,
because I'm just so grateful andthere are just some
opportunities that I would nevereven have been able to apply
for or even be considered for,even know existed without these
people in my life.
So I tried to pay it forwardand continue to do that for the
(20:15):
generation coming up behind me.
And then I think in my currentsort of endeavor as an
entrepreneur, what's beenextraordinarily inspiring is how
much other entrepreneurs wantto help other entrepreneurs.
It's incredible.
You know I was a bit scared toask people for advice or help
(20:38):
because you know they're busy oryou know who is this annoying
person trying to start abusiness asking me like really
basic questions, but the levelof sincere interest in trying to
understand what I'm trying tobuild and helping me unpack some
of the challenges that I'mcoming up across, and you know
what are some potentialsolutions and the appetite to
(21:02):
help me through that for no cost, like they weren't charging me,
you know, to kind of help merun through issues.
They really really enjoyedproblem solving and I think
that's a common thread you seein entrepreneurs is that they
truly enjoy the difficult things, the untying knots.
You know something they reallyreally thrive on whether it's a
(21:23):
problem directed to theirbusiness or someone else's, they
really want to help you figureit out.
So that's been really reallyinspiring.
Very surprising to me andthey've been some.
There've been some difficult.
You know just logistical thingsI had to work through in terms
of you know ordering, you knowplastic tubes and you know just
logistical things I had to workthrough in terms of you know
ordering, you know plastic tubesand you know formulating
products and how many times wewant to go back and do that and
(21:44):
is it really worth theinvestment to do you know a, b
or c versus x, y and z to getthe right return.
You know these are questionsthat I would sit alone when
trying to wrangle my brainaround, um, but the minute I
would just sort of you know,casually mention it to another
entrepreneur, they would say,okay, here's how, here's what I
would do, here's how I wouldthink about it, how about this,
(22:05):
how about this, how about that?
And it's amazing that thatlevel of like collaboration that
you don't even have to ask for,they just sort of dive in
wanting to help you.
So I couldn't have gotten towhere I am now with Tinder
because I had no experience inthe beauty industry or any
connections whatsoever.
I was just trying it on my own.
But I couldn't have gotten towhere I am without people just
volunteering to help me solvesome of these problems.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I love that and the reason I ask that question is
because that move that you madeis a whole new world in every
aspect of it, and specificallythe collaboration piece is
because they've been throughstuff and someone else has also
helped brainstorm with them andentrepreneurs tend to have that
slight touch of ADHD that goesfor the association of ideas and
you get a few that are incontrol, that can really help
(22:49):
you.
It's a good spot to be.
There's a few that are likeokay, just stop talking, because
we're very good at givingadvice, and sometimes we're like
I didn't ask for any, butthat's okay.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
I mean because you but at that point you have to be
careful too, because I'm asponge and I want to hear
everyone's perspective.
I really do, because everyone'sgot a unique line of sight into
solving a problem, based upontheir career and what things
they've seen and what thingsthey've seen.
But you can't let yourself gettoo far away from the DNA of
(23:21):
your brand and the reasons whyyou started this brand and the
purpose and the mission of thecompany.
It's really easy, becauseyou'll talk to someone who's
been proven to be a successfulbeauty entrepreneur, for example
, who's developed amulti-million dollar brand, and
they're telling you to do thesethree things just seem really
sort of unusual at this time,and so you really have to think
(23:45):
okay, do I just do those threethings or do I take a minute to
think are these the right thingsfor me to do at this stage?
In my company and I have a biastowards action I always want to
just jump on the next thing, andwhen I come away from some of
these meetings, I almost have anaction item list and I think,
okay, now I got to do these 10things they told me to do, and I
have to remind myself that Ineed to be a little bit more
(24:07):
deliberative and actually workthrough each of those to make
sure this is the right time todo it.
You know the advice is sound,it's very good and they're
proven to be successful.
So I know it's good advice, butit might not be the right time
for me.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah, I try to give some reflective points.
Sometimes the audience are in.
You know, take it if you wantto.
This is a big thing, as peoplegive you information, capture it
, and my background is AI andsome other stuff around this.
So before I became this, I wasconsulting on AI and intelligent
automation.
So I say this with the idea thatcapture as much data as you can
(24:39):
and about the person, theirsuccess, who they are, their
lens, if you will and startputting it into a thing called a
Google notebook LM, a privateLM for yourself, a chat GPT for
you, and just start putting yourdata in there, because you're
going to forget about some ofthe stuff, and some of the stuff
they're telling you isincredibly important, because
they're five years down the roadand they're like I wish I would
have done this, but you're likeI don't have the time for that.
(25:01):
They know that.
But they're like, man, I wish Iwould have made the time for
that, but you're like there's noway I'm doing that, and so, as
you start thinking through that,then you can start asking this
on your own LLM questions, like,hey, I want to stay on, that's
going to get me off brand, or isthis a business thing I should
be doing now, and those two areusually the two decisions I ask.
Is this something that gets meaway from what I sell, do and
(25:21):
solve?
Or is this more of a setup forbetter success, scale and anyway
?
So capture it all, put itsomewhere and go query it
occasionally.
You'll find that you'll.
You'll really be happy you didthat a year or two years I've
never even considered doing that.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
I think that's a really really good suggestion.
Yeah, thank you for that Wow.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
It's a way to scale your thinking, because you will
not be able to keep up with it.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I have stuff scribbled on notes and they're
literally like scattered allover my desk right now.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Just start putting into a note file and then you
dump it in there or put it onyour app and you just get a
context and just put in and saveit, save it, save it.
It's very worse.
Just put it in the chat.
I recommend doing that becauseit's a lot to keep up on and
there are a lot of gold nuggets.
But you'll not see it with therock encrusted around it, right?
So the AI will start.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yeah, I love that.
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
More work for you.
Here you go, list of things togo do shit's a brain dump.
Take all your stuff and braindump it somewhere else and then,
when you get stuck, go query it.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a great idea.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
I never heard of that .
Well, I mean, hey, this is whyI business coach people, right,
I can show them how to spendtheir money.
So well, no, this is free.
Actually, what are you mostgrateful for?
Speaker 2 (26:36):
I am most grateful, I guess, for being alive, first
and foremost, good one.
Someone I used to work withactually recently passed away
from cancer, and she was reallyin the prime of her life, very
joyful person.
She brought a lot of positivityto the world and those
tragedies, I think, make itreally clear that you can't be
(26:58):
wasting your time being unhappyor being stagnant.
Everyone's been put on thisplanet for a reason or many
reasons, and the journey isgetting to discover what those
reasons are.
So I'm very thankful that I'mhealthy now and I had this
opportunity to have newexperiences and just continue to
learn new things.
That's what I'm grateful forand just continue to learn new
things.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
That's what I'm grateful for.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Take our conversation and give a lawyer's closing
statement of advice to thelistener.
Hmm, I would say my advice isto be more curious about
yourself.
More curious about yourself.
Don't have a single track mind,but feel free and safe to
explore the things you might begreat at but just never thought
(27:47):
was part of your story, and youdon't have to turn like your
current life upside down to dothat.
You know that's a scary thingto do and also not actually
totally practical or feasible,depending upon know your
circumstances.
But you can do it in small waysto.
To start, you know, by takingon like a new hobby.
The other day I was thinking Iwant to learn to tap dance.
Um, and you can just learn howto do that on youtube and just
(28:09):
try it and see how that changeshow you feel about yourself and
does it unlock some new, likenewfound interest in expressing
yourself through throughmovement.
You know, um so things likenewfound interest in expressing
yourself through throughmovement.
You know, um so things likethat helps yourself in a
different way, helps you seeother people in a different way
and I think it ultimately bringsyou closer to knowing who you
are.
So I think that would be justacross the board advice.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I love it.
You know the idea.
The idea behind that issomething that I think I see a
lot.
I've done it myself.
Where it's you myself, whereit's stagnant and you stop
learning new things or tryingnew things.
And we left the autobiography.
But the other day I was like Iwouldn't play tennis for the
first time it sounds crazy inAtlanta, but I loved it.
I'm like, oh gosh, this mightruin my relationship because I'm
(28:54):
having too much fun and I mightwant to do this way too much,
because anything worth doing isworth overdoing.
Right and come on anyway.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Look, if you're an extremist, then you're in good
company, because that's how I am.
I'm like all in or not Do this.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
My friend was like, don't go buy rackets.
Like, oh, I'm going to buythree.
Like, if there's not one, we'vegot to get backups right.
Just because I get pissed andbreak one, we've got to.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Personally no.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
That is crazy that you just discovered tennis and
you live in Atlanta, because Ifeel like you can't drive more
than half a mile without comingup across some tennis court
somewhere.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
A little backdrop.
I played racquetballcompetitively through high
school and college and I loveracquet sports and I kind of got
burned out on it for like 15years.
Then I got really fat and thenI had gotten back in shape and
and then I got hurt and then Iwas like you know, I don't want
to play racquetball anymore.
I I'll do it recreationallymaybe, but I'm more likely to
(29:47):
get hurt Cause anyway.
So I was like I and all thesepeople are complete tennis and
they knew it.
And I went and played and myone friend was like for your
first day, you're pretty, youcan really hit it like, well, I
go once I get into this.
Yeah, my point being is on thatlist is also stand-up comedy.
I've been talking about that.
I'm gonna go do it.
I'm gonna go find a place andgo try it and and I'm like I
shouldn't be, I'm on tv.
The point being, you're makingsuch a great point because it's
(30:09):
like go, go, embarrass yourself,go try things, go do it,
because that's where lifehappens and we're all guilty of
saying till tomorrow, right ohyeah, I mean I recall my first
vendor meeting when I wasbuilding this company and I'm so
like embarrassed but also justI think it's very funny now when
I look back.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
I didn't, I didn't know like the terms of the trade
, you know.
So I would call things thethingy.
I was like, how do I pour theformula into the thing that
houses the product?
And the lady was just confusedbecause she didn't know what I
was talking about.
I didn't know the correct wordsto use.
But you can't let that sort ofembarrassment, you know, stop
you.
If you really want to dosomething, just do it.
(30:48):
No one's going to that.
That meeting was not recorded.
No one's going to play it backfor me to hear you just have to
just bite the bullet and be likewell, if I embarrass myself,
that's fine as part of theprocess yeah, you should have
recorded it, play it foryourself later, just when you
you know you sell the companyfor 100.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
You'd be like.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Let me show you my first meeting yeah, I don't even
know what to call a tube.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
I don't even know what you think of a jigger when
you fill with stuff from thatthat's exactly what I was
talking about.
I was like call me, you can rubit on the face.
What are you making exactly?
All right, four rapid firequestions.
Let's do this, okay, and I'mgoing to flip it, cause I
usually use the positive goingnegative today, I don't know why
.
What is the worst business?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
advice you've ever received oh, the worst business
advice I've ever received.
I mean, I understood what theywere saying.
It was to really do yourresearch and homework before you
start.
And I understood what they weresaying.
I wanted to make sure, assomeone who's not part of the
beauty industry, I really needto understand the landscape.
Um, and so they said, you know,make a business plan.
(31:51):
Uh, research your competitors,read about the risks inherent in
beauty.
You know one thing I do when Iinterview for for jobs or try to
get to know a company ifthey're public, I read their
form 10k and there's a wholesection on on risks, and I
really suggest that you know,really understand, what you're
getting yourself into.
And I don't think that wasgreat advice, because I think
(32:12):
when you're trying to start yourown company, it's important, of
course, to kind of know whatyou're getting into in a general
sense, but start.
So, if I flip the questionaround back, what was the best
advice I got?
It was to just start.
Just start and the pieces willsort of fall into place.
You take the first step and thenyou take the next step and
suddenly you're like, oh, wow,I'm actually doing this and it's
(32:39):
really hard and it's veryconfusing and painful at times,
but that's what it means to runa business.
It's not this sort ofromanticized idea of you sitting
in your office and everything'sgoing great.
Everything's always fallingapart.
That's just the nature ofrunning your own company.
So I think that probably wasn'tthe best advice.
I didn't take it, obviously.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
I think there's a degree of personality in it too.
Right, you should be learningthe business all the time.
But I agree with you, and we'reprobably on the same wavelength
of extreme is just start, justgo, and we'll you know, let's
head south Off.
We're heading to Florida.
We don't need to planeverything.
The idea is, though, focus onthe problem that you're solving,
(33:18):
and who cares what's thedesperate problem you're going
to solve and for whom?
And if you got those two thingstogether, the offer, the
service, the product will comescreaming at you of what you
need to go build or do, and thenit's just a question of well,
how do I do that?
And then that's just a questionof well, how do I do that?
And then that's that's when itkicks in.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
That's when you do the research of, like, what
product cools a face and sendburnt the hole inside of my face
, right and really, because nowit's around a problem, it's
around an adventure, a story itactually makes me kind of sad
sometimes when I think about howmany incredible ideas for new
products and services are outthere that someone has thought
about but they never acted on,because they were just like
(34:00):
waiting for the right moment.
They're waiting for the rightpartner they were waiting for I
don't know something to forcethem to do it.
You know, there's just not aright time.
You just gotta, you just gottado it.
And I, I, I just wonder howmany wonderful ideas haven't
been born yet.
Someone's not ready, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
More than have made it out.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
See it kind of repeats in life, right, there's
like a million things that go toone egg and it's like not
everything survives, right.
So, like that, one good idea Igot through.
So anyway, that's probably thesame ratio.
Life tends to repeat itself inmath.
Who gives you inspiration?
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Oh, my parents.
My parents give me a lot ofinspiration.
I would say you know about them.
You may have incredible stories.
My dad's actually written hismemoirs.
I wish my mom would too as well, because it's so, so unique.
But they both left their homecountries to experience the
world.
And they didn't have to leave,they just chose to take kind of
a leap of faith and see what wason the other side, and I think
(34:58):
that sense of adventure, senseof curiosity, is something that
really inspires me.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
I love that.
It's beautiful.
Not everybody can say that,Okay.
So if somebody is about to gostart, do you have a book,
though you would say this is agood one to read first.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
There are so many books.
I mean I think I haven't quitefound the book that gives me
inspiration as an entrepreneuryet I like read several, but I
haven't found one that was likethis is the Holy Grail.
But when I think back on mylegal career, there definitely
is a book that comes to mind.
When I graduated from lawschool my dad gave me this book.
(35:41):
It was called Nice Girls Don'tGet the Corner Office and I
really liked that book a lotbecause I'm people please their
by nature and the book sort oftalks about how that type of
behavior, while very positive inday-to-day life, it doesn't
really get you far in theprofessional world because
people misinterpret that asweakness or incompetence.
(36:02):
So that's a book I'd recommendjust for people in their legal
careers, especially women.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
All right, Now exploring Pierce versus Post.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
What is that?
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Come on, it's like day one of law school Pierce
versus Post Bucks get shot.
You know what I have to tellyou this.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
I hated law school.
I hated day one of law school.
Pierce versus Post Bucks getshot.
I have to tell you this I hatedlaw school.
I hated every second of lawschool.
I got there and I was like whatis this?
My goal my whole life becausemy parents told me to be a
lawyer was to get into lawschool.
I just never even thought aboutwhat actually is taught in law
school.
And I got there and I found itso boring.
And it's a struggle to getthrough.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
I gotta pay back the law school loans but never got
my jd.
I'll leave it at that, okay.
Okay, I was like doing payrollin the background.
I don't say I'm running, Ianyway.
Another day over coffee I'llexplain.
Um, yeah, I was like who caresabout this stuff?
If you had to start over today,where in your timeline, where
would you go and what would youdo differently?
Speaker 2 (37:00):
this is a very, almost like, difficult question
for me to answer because Iactually wouldn't do anything
differently, and I'm sure youget that response.
But I wouldn't do anythingdifferently.
All the good parts, all the badparts, all the painful parts
make up your life story.
You know, maybe I wouldn't,maybe I wouldn't have like
permed my hair when I was ninebecause I looked like a poodle
in some of these photographs.
Like maybe that.
But in terms of like decisions,in terms of you know, when you
(37:24):
reach a fork in the road and youtake the road less traveled or
whatnot, like, I wouldn't changeany of those decisions, even if
they turned out you know tothink it's part of my story.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
This was a.
This is one of those weirdperson I test you had said
everything happens for me.
You just confirmed it.
Um the uh.
Actually only about two peopleout of a few hundred interviews
have ever said that and trulythe best answer anyone's ever
given though, though that is agreat one.
It's a, it's a life and noregrets was.
I wish I would have gotten ablack coffee instead of a latte.
And he said but I'm gonnacorrect that right after this.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
And he said but I'm gonna correct that right after
this.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
It's pretty damn good answer right there next present
in the moment.
So if there's a question, Ishould have asked you today I
didn't.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
What would that question have been?
It would be where can youpurchase tender cosmetics?
It's coming next you have thatone coming so all the answer is
tender dash cosmeticscom, but ifyou want something, I guess
more.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
I mean, I like she was, that's a pretty good, no,
meaningful, it didn't.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
I would say maybe the question she asked me but
didn't is when do I see myselfin 10 years?
Is where do I see myself in 10years?
And the answer is I can't thinkof like a specific role or like
a specific scenario that I wantto be experiencing in 10 years,
but I just hope that I'm happy,I hope that I'm healthy and I
(38:50):
hope that I'm doing things andspending time, you know, with
people that appreciate and loveme.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
I was going to ask you really actually about the
safari you're going on heretomorrow, so give me, give me
the two minutes on the safari,cause you've talked about doing
different things.
You've left that one off.
That's a pretty cool one.
That's beyond tap dancing.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
It is.
We're still coming back to that, though, yeah, so I just uh,
I've always wanted to go onsafari, and now that I'm my own
boss and I make my own schedule,I can actually make it happen.
Um and so Kenya is thedestination.
I heard that was the place tosee the most diverse sort of
range of animals, and, uh, I'm alittle scared because I had to
get like three vaccines and I'mtaking these anti-malarials.
(39:33):
I just hope I come back alivewithout some, you know, deathly
illness.
But, yeah, I think it's goingto be fun.
I think I think nature ishealing.
I think watching animals in thewild just survive and and and
live the way I think Godintended all creatures to live
(39:54):
is profound, and so I'm reallylooking forward to feeling, you
know, changed by that experience.
I hope I will be.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
I can't imagine you wouldn't be, and hopefully for
the more positive.
And I do hope you come backwith great skin, because it
really is going to wreck yourbrand if they can't use your
face.
You're like I went to after andI didn't.
We'll change the story at thatpoint.
Shameless plug time for you.
Uh, who should get a hold ofyou?
How do they do it?
Speaker 2 (40:18):
um, anyone who wants to learn about more, learn more
about tender cosmetics, anyonewho wants to, uh, consider a
career pivot, or who's startingbusiness.
I love to talk with people likethat because I find it very
encouraging.
It kind of keeps me going whenI'm sort of surrounded by people
who are kind of in the sameworld as I am now.
And you can find me on LinkedIn.
I have a personal Instagramit's underscore, linglingme
(40:40):
underscore and then my businessInstagram is tendercosmetics and
you can sort of follow thebrand, follow what we're
launching, all the differentcampaigns we're doing on
Instagram.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Well, thank you so much for taking a few moments of
your day with me.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Thank you very much.
This was really great.
I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Appreciate it and anybody who's still here.
Thank you for being here andmaking it to this part of the
show.
If this is your first time here, I do hope it's the first of
many, and if you've been herebefore, thanks for coming back.
Get out there, go cut a tie tosomething holding you back, but
first define.
Welcome to Cut the Tie podcast.
Hi, I'm your host, thomasHelfrich, and I'm on a mission
to help you cut the tie towhatever it is holding you back
in your life from success.
Now that success does need tobe defined by you or you will be
chasing someone else's dream.
I am joined today by with LingLing.
Ling Ling, that's not your fullname.
Is it Ni or Nye or Nye?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Ling Ling is my first name.
Ni is my last name.
I have an actual sort of formalChinese name but I don't go by
that.
I go by Ling Ling.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Okay, for just entertainment purposes, let me
try to pronounce it it's KuiLing.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Ni is my Chinese yeah .
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Is that right, kui Ling?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Kui Ling.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Kui Ling.
Yeah, yeah, perfect, it's yourniece.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Now I'll be like, okay, yeah, that's right, just
say my name over and over again.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I'll be speaking Chinese, in no time, nice to see
you, and will you just take amoment introduce yourself and
what it is you do.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Sure Ling Ling Ni.
I'm the founder of TenderCosmetics.
I'm based here in Atlanta and Istarted Tender in 2022 and then
launched the brand online inJanuary this year.
Tender Cosmetics is a premiummakeup brand.
It's known for its creamyproducts that also have this
(01:13):
unique cooling effect when youapply it to your skin, and it
keeps you refreshed throughoutthe day.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Well, very good.
Well, as an Atlanta person aswell, that's very cool.
So now I can get some stuff formy forehead wrinkles.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Forehead wrinkles you look great.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Zoom.
It's a great zoom.
It's just, it's a gray filter.
Let's just leave there.
You see me, but I can actuallywatch clothes, not only on his
abs.
That that's not even true, andand it's gonna be anyway.
Sorry, see you, you'reexpecting one thing and now
you've you set me in a whole newdirection for a loop oh well,
all right, very cool, so allright.
There are a lot of cosmeticsbrands out there.
Uh, why did people pick yours?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Well, I think what makes what makes Tinder unique
is that we prioritize how beautyactually feels, not just how it
looks.
It's that sensorial experiencethat really is at the center of
our brand, and that coolingsensation is what sets us apart,
in my opinion.
So the person wearing theproducts not only looks great,
(02:10):
but they also feel great, and so, in that way, these products
kind of give back to the personwearing them, which is not
something you typically see.
And you know why I starteddeveloping these products was
because of some health issues Ihad as a result of being a
workaholic.
To be frank, I've been anattorney for 20 years now.
It's a very stressful job tohave, and I neglected my health
for a really long time andultimately got pretty ill and I
(02:32):
spent years having to, kind of,you know, put myself back
together.
But one of the good things thatcame out of that was wanting to
create products that would helpother people feel great, so
that they can, you know, thrivein whatever they set out to do.
Did you become an attorney whenyou were like 12?
Speaker 1 (02:44):
that would help other people feel great, so that they
can thrive in whatever they setout to do.
Did you become?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
an attorney when you were like 12?
No, I started practicing.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
I was a licensed attorney at age 24.
And now you're full-time intoTinder Cosmetics.
You've left that world.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yeah, I left my legal career.
I'm not sure if it's forever,but at least for some time I
left my legal career, you knowat least.
You know I'm not sure if it'sforever, but you know at least
for a time for some time.
I left it in in March and soI've been working exclusively
full time on building TenderCosmetics because I felt like it
really needed some dedicatedtime.
When things started reallyramping up, I just felt like
Tender was gaining, likewhatever was left over at the
end of the day in terms ofenergy, so I just really wanted
(03:23):
to take the time to give it mybest.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, you put the script on it.
That's hard to do and we'reprobably going to explore that
here in a minute.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Take a moment here, though define, you know, before
we get into your journey, andkind of the metaphoric ties that
you've cut to get where you are.
How do you currently definesuccess?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I think there are two ways that I define success.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
I mean for me and a lot of people, especially a lot
of the people that have beenguests on your show, I'm sure,
success means the freedom tospend your time the way you want
to.
That's one way I define success.
But you know, I also know thatyou can't be successful, you
know, on your own and help fromother people is really key.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
So success for me is also being able to help others
discover their talents and helpthem along their journey in the
same way that others have helpedme.
Well, tell me about yourjourney a little bit.
And to achieve that success,what was kind of the biggest tie
you've had to cut?
Yeah, I think one of thecontributing reasons that I
think led me to neglect myhealth in the past is that I
tied my identity solely to mylegal career, and that's a tie
that I had to cut because whatthat did was make me value
myself, you know, only throughmy career accomplishments and I
(04:44):
became kind of a one-dimensionalperson, which is probably not
that exciting to be around andpretty harmful in the long run,
because that investment, youknow, of all my energy and my
time into my legal career didnot allow me to develop a system
to value myself outside of workand that would have brought a
lot more equilibrium, I think,and sustainability to that
equation for me.
Having said that, I do thinkthat a high degree of intensity
(05:05):
is necessary at times, you know,particularly if you have a
specific goal that you're tryingto chase and you know being
overweighted in your career iskind of part of that sacrifice
you make to be successful.
But I just don't think it'spossible to operate in that gear
forever without suffering sometype of consequence.
Um, you know, there's thatexpression like if your laptop
is acting up, you know, go aheadand unplug it, and then when
(05:27):
you plug it back in, it seems towork perfectly again.
So I think you can, definitelycan and should at times kind of
go all in in your career, butyou do have to also be set and
sort of unplug, so to speak, tomake sure your body, you know,
and your mind can actuallysupport, you know, your ambition
.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Was your, was the?
Was the career?
First of all, acknowledge that.
Yes, I struggle with this too.
I think many people do strugglewith the idea that your
identity is not wrapped up inyour work somehow and it is.
I mean if you're separated andyou're creating duality of life,
and that's not healthy either.
So it is part of the journey.
It can't be the only part ofthe journey.
But did you find that, thatthat definition of success back
(06:07):
when you're an attorney andyou're chasing it was?
Was that something you definedor was that something parents or
other influences were saying?
That's what you should do.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Experience as an Asian American, especially one
whose parents immigrated here inthat, you know, I was sort of
told what I was going to be whenI grow up and I grew up in a
culture where you don't reallychallenge that.
So from a very young age myparents wanted me to be a lawyer
.
So that's what I did and Ididn't, you know, disagree with
them.
I said that sounds great, I'lldo that.
But it wasn't really sort ofthat self-selection to be an
(06:43):
attorney.
So when the pressure got really, really intense, I didn't sort
of have that purpose to fallback on to keep me going, and
that was a very challengingthing to deal with and sort of
part of why wrapping myself upin this identity that wasn't
really one I'd chosen for myselfwas a struggle.
Not to sound ungrateful, I'mglad I'm a lawyer.
(07:03):
It's been a really fruitfulcareer for me and I really do
enjoy it now.
But when you didn't gravitatetowards something, quite
naturally because of your ownpersonal interests, when the
pressure comes, I think the wayyou cope and the way you manage
it is really different.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Spot on.
So when I coach work withentrepreneurs, the first thing
we do on day one is a three Pexercise, which is your, your
passion, your potentials, yourskills, and then you're the
problem you solve.
And if those three bubblesaren't of some size, you don't
go there.
You got to rethink one of them.
And if your passion keepsshrinking, shrinking, shrinking,
shrinking, and it doesn'tmatter how big your skills are,
(07:42):
how big of a problem you solve,eventually you won't have a
center to go after, uh, and your, your light and your eye
direction will go someplace else, and and that's that's.
That's a great thing, becausethen you're really kind of,
you're moving to where you'resupposed to have gone or where
you're when you're supposed togo.
So I I think it's very natural,um, but do you look?
I guess mary's question is doyou look?
I guess Mary's question is doyou look at it, as this happened
(08:04):
for me or happened to me?
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Oh, I never.
I will never subscribe to thebelief that life is happening to
me.
I firmly believe you have tohave this sort of mental model
in your mind that you're't wantto happen.
But if you adopt a mindset thatit's happening to me, you take
away the agency and the actualchoices.
(08:27):
You do have to sort of putthings back on track.
So yeah, I believe that there'sa choice in every situation.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
I mean especially set up a new company.
I got the legal part.
We're easy here, we're good,Don't need counsel on that one.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I've worked in-house primarily for most of my career
as a lawyer, so justunderstanding how business
operate, that was really helpfuland it gave me a little bit of
a leg up to kind of know whatit's like to set up a company
and then sort of know thedifferent work streams involved
in running a business.
You know that's not something Iwould have had had I not worked
in-house for years.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, I mean you can draw upon the advantage of it.
For sure that's a pretty goodone.
Because you're like I don'tknow, we're talking about a
contract.
I'll actually read it.
It's like to us other layman'swe just throw in the GPT and say
, hey, what's wrong with it?
Which is actually still prettyhelpful for negotiation.
But we'll take that on adifferent show.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
GPT is great.
You know, I'm not going to sayI didn't do that.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
I hired a attorney not so long ago for a fair
credit reporting act issue thathas popped up for me and we were
negotiating the deal and I waslike I put it in there and it
came back with a whole strategyof how and I got, like you know
know, a third instead of 48.
I did this whole, I did andthey, they took it.
They even argue.
I'm like, man, you guys, youguys got work anyway.
I'm not sure I should hire youas an attorney at this point.
(09:52):
I'm like you didn't evennegotiate with me, so you're all
right.
Well, in your own journey, thehealth things were huge.
A person without their healthhas but one dream, right, you
know, and if you have, if youhave it, you got a million.
So, and not asking you to getinto that as much, but it just
you have the moment, everyonehas it.
Some people say it's over time.
It's usually just one momentthat you realize I'm making the
(10:13):
move, I'm done.
Yeah, what was your moment.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
It's really hard I think you would agree and others
would agree.
It's really hard to change theway that you value yourself.
And it didn't happen for me,you know, in a single moment or
overnight.
It was kind of a long processto trying to discover who I am,
when I'm not being a lawyer.
But I do recall the firstmoment I realized that I had to
(10:39):
be serious about changing things, even though I didn't really
know exactly how I was going todo that.
But it was when I was in thehospital the night before I had
to have surgery and I remembersaying a prayer, you know, that
everything would go well and Ipromised myself that if
everything did go well, I'mgoing to turn things around and
you know I'm going to be.
I'm going to be that laptopthat gets unplugged for a bit so
(11:01):
I could create a healthier lifefor myself.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Good for you and that I mean that's really a moment
About to go on.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Renee, when you're punched in the face with your
mortality you know it's trueyour entire perspective changes
and all the things that were soimportant to you just seem so
trivial and you just want tofeel better.
You don't want to be laying ina hospital bed.
You know watching the world goby and people having you know
amazing memories and experiences, and you're just laying here.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
It's very sobering I don't want to go in the hospital
.
That's the sounds horrible.
Uh, sure, extended, but yougive it in and out.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Let's make that like a like a chick-fil-a speed, you
know well, during my, during myjourney in, in, in my health
journey you know it was allduring COVID, so I couldn't even
have visitors and the entiretime I was in the hospital I
never saw a single face, becauseeveryone was wrapped up in
masks and goggles and faceshields.
It was like I wasn't human.
(11:58):
You kind of felt like a scienceexperiment in some ways.
I bet you wish you had sometender cosmetics to cool your
shoes Well what's interesting isI I remember I would drag my
body out of bed every morningjust to put moisturizer on,
because it made me feel human.
It really made me feel humanagain, and that's something I
kept coming back to when I wasdeveloping a company, about why
(12:19):
I'm doing this and how it'simportant for people, especially
during difficult times, to feelgood about themselves.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
We'll move forward.
But I will tell you I don'twear makeup.
But if I did, I wouldn't wantplumper over my face because it
burns.
Just going to throw that outthere.
Cooling sounds better.
Cooling lips on cheeks is muchbetter than plumper burning a
hole in the side of my cheek,yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
I think so too.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
But cayenne pepper in the makeup should be flogged
with a rubber chicken.
There's one thing to know yourjourney and the tie you need to
cut.
And you got the moment.
But then there comes the how.
Yeah, and that's hardest,because it's commitment to a
moment that's now fading.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
It's like, oh, I'm OK , now Talk to me about your how
in actually taking on even morethings and adding more to my
plate.
But what that did was help mediversify my identity and that's
like a mantra I kind of live bynow is to diversify my identity
to see myself pursuing andactually enjoying things outside
of the legal career I'd been,you know, so devoted to.
(13:38):
So one example of somethingthat I did was I became an
emergency department volunteerat the hospital near me, and I
show up every other Saturdaymorning at 6 am and my job was
to make sure the staff had, like, all the medical supplies they
needed, that there were enoughwheelchairs at the entrance to
help patients and that thenurse's stations were fully
stocked.
And it was a completelydifferent exercise from what I'm
(14:01):
used to doing day to day, butit was truly rewarding.
And it was truly rewarding tosee myself being fulfilled and
successful at somethingdifferent.
And then, of course, the otheryou know big leap I took to
diversify my identity wasstarting my business, and that's
really kind of set me on a newcourse, both professionally and
personally, that I'm prettyexcited about.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Are you finding in your falling back the habits of
you're going to go way too fastinto the new thing and end up in
the same spot?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
No, I don't think I can ever allow myself to get to
that point again.
It was truly life altering tofind myself, you know, unwell
and unable to pursue the thingsthat really brought me joy, and
I mean I've got scars all overmy abdomen to remind me every
morning.
You know about what happenswhen you don't take care of
yourself.
So I'm fairly confident thatyou know I'll be able to pursue
(14:55):
sort of new endeavors with amuch healthier sense of sort of
equilibrium.
Just the idea of you and beingin the hospital again is quite
upsetting when you've been therefor a while.
So I'm fairly confident I cankeep things on track.
Of course I have sort of atendency to be a workaholic.
It's my DNA.
But I just got to keepreminding myself.
(15:17):
It's a daily sort of exercise.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
That's good.
Scars are cool.
If anybody doesn't know this,the more scars you have, the
better story is yours AlwaysAbout.
Scars concern me.
I don't know what they've beendoing in their life.
I mean, how have you not fallenoff of one thing?
Really, laudra Witch, you'reanyway got in a knife fight.
I don anyway got a knife fight.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I don't know no, you're right, you're right.
That's actually so much moreinteresting, though, to have
scars from a knife fight ratherthan scars from a story.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
You can tell the story however you want.
You gotta tell the rest of thestory.
You know it was a vicious nightfight in hong kong.
I was dizzy.
All I wanted was a mexican food, which you can't fall right.
Right anyways, I was lookingfor that atlanta barbecue down
down hong kong.
Uh got a knife fight over atri-tip steak right I can do
(16:05):
this for hours but I'm not goingto all right.
What's been the impact?
I mean, you've touched on a lotof it, but you know, maybe the
impact not even just to yourself, to others around you.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
You know just in life what's been your impact since I
mean, the impact hasreverberated just throughout
everything that I that I do now.
You know, when I stopped makingmy legal career, my entire
personality, my entire identity,it really was as if these like
blinders came off and I wasactually able to see and
appreciate all the world buzzingaround me.
(16:35):
You know, like nobody actuallycares about this new company
policy that I'm drafting andimplementing, you know, but I
was making it the most importantproblem on my plate and I would
think of nothing else until itwas like finished.
And again, I'm not advocatingagainst that level of, you know,
dedication to your job, but itcan't be, you know, at the cost
of shutting out the life aroundyou and the people you know who
(16:55):
love you.
That doesn't feel great.
It doesn't set you up forsustainable success.
That's another sort of mantra Irepeat to myself is sustainable
success.
And it was through that personaltransformation that I
discovered I wanted to developproducts that would actually
make you feel great andrefreshed and that can help you
start the day off with energyand with positivity, so that you
(17:16):
can really accomplish thethings that you want without,
you know, sacrificing yourwell-being.
And I think I also discoveredthat I really love expressing
myself creatively andartistically, which is not
something you get to do oftenwhen you're sort of just doing
day-to-day legal work.
But I get to do that now indesigning my packaging, in
creating photos and videocontent for my company and sort
(17:38):
of managing the website and allsorts of e-commerce things that
come with it.
So I feel like it's helped mesee and develop multiple
dimensions of myself, which isnot something that I could have
done had I not gone through thisexperience.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah, I mean listen, I have so many questions.
My little 10-year-old, sinceshe's eight, has been selling
light.
We make her own all natural lipbalm.
We make stuff.
She sells it at school and theytold her she can't sell school,
but she's like she got cash andeven the family.
I'll tell you right now, likethat girl, like I'm serious,
like she is, like she, she comesup with stuff.
So I've already bought a deepbraille for her to the natural
entrepreneur.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
That's amazing she.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
She says she's learning from daddy and I'm like
let me tell you all the stuffyou shouldn't do.
Um, watch what I'm doing anddon't do any of that, and then
no, I need an additionalquestion to be a layer, if
you'll take.
It is uh, you touched about itjust briefly and I wanted to
come back was you can't do italone and and so you talk to me
about maybe the relationshipsaround you that's been
supportive, not there there thathave formed sense.
(18:34):
Like just because I think thisis a part a lot of entrepreneurs
get stuck in, is this I'm alonesomewhere actually, and that's
just.
You're not going to go anywherereally, or it's very difficult,
and now they just feel alone.
You meet someone who is, whobelieves in you and can see
skills and talents that youdon't even recognize in yourself
.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
And so there was a period of time in my career in
my mid-30s that I met anattorney who has truly changed
my life in terms of helping medevelop some of these roles that
I never really considered wouldbe part of my career because I
just didn't think I had thepedigree for them or whatnot.
So in my legal career certainlythere have been very
influential people like that whohave basically sort of built
(19:54):
the bridge for me to go from onerole to the next.
And I try to do that for up andcoming attorneys as well,
because I'm just so grateful andthere are just some
opportunities that I would nevereven have been able to apply
for or even be considered for,even know existed without these
people in my life.
So I tried to pay it forwardand continue to do that for the
(20:15):
generation coming up behind me.
And then I think in my currentsort of endeavor as an
entrepreneur, what's beenextraordinarily inspiring is how
much other entrepreneurs wantto help other entrepreneurs.
It's incredible.
You know I was a bit scared toask people for advice or help
(20:38):
because you know they're busy oryou know who is this annoying
person trying to start abusiness asking me like really
basic questions, but the levelof sincere interest in trying to
understand what I'm trying tobuild and helping me unpack some
of the challenges that I'mcoming up across, and you know
what are some potentialsolutions and the appetite to
(21:02):
help me through that for no cost, like they weren't charging me,
you know, to kind of help merun through issues.
They really really enjoyedproblem solving and I think
that's a common thread you seein entrepreneurs is that they
truly enjoy the difficult things, the untying knots.
You know something they reallyreally thrive on whether it's a
(21:23):
problem directed to theirbusiness or someone else's, they
really want to help you figureit out.
So that's been really reallyinspiring.
Very surprising to me andthey've been some.
There've been some difficult.
You know just logistical thingsI had to work through in terms
of you know ordering, you knowplastic tubes and you know just
logistical things I had to workthrough in terms of you know
ordering, you know plastic tubesand you know formulating
products and how many times wewant to go back and do that and
(21:44):
is it really worth theinvestment to do you know a, b
or c versus x, y and z to getthe right return.
You know these are questionsthat I would sit alone when
trying to wrangle my brainaround, um, but the minute I
would just sort of you know,casually mention it to another
entrepreneur, they would say,okay, here's how, here's what I
would do, here's how I wouldthink about it, how about this,
(22:05):
how about this, how about that?
And it's amazing that thatlevel of like collaboration that
you don't even have to ask for,they just sort of dive in
wanting to help you.
So I couldn't have gotten towhere I am now with Tinder
because I had no experience inthe beauty industry or any
connections whatsoever.
I was just trying it on my own.
But I couldn't have gotten towhere I am without people just
volunteering to help me solvesome of these problems.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I love that and the reason I ask that question is
because that move that you madeis a whole new world in every
aspect of it, and specificallythe collaboration piece is
because they've been throughstuff and someone else has also
helped brainstorm with them andentrepreneurs tend to have that
slight touch of ADHD that goesfor the association of ideas and
you get a few that are incontrol, that can really help
(22:49):
you.
It's a good spot to be.
There's a few that are likeokay, just stop talking, because
we're very good at givingadvice, and sometimes we're like
I didn't ask for any, butthat's okay.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
I mean because you but at that point you have to be
careful too, because I'm asponge and I want to hear
everyone's perspective.
I really do, because everyone'sgot a unique line of sight into
solving a problem, based upontheir career and what things
they've seen and what thingsthey've seen.
But you can't let yourself gettoo far away from the DNA of
(23:21):
your brand and the reasons whyyou started this brand and the
purpose and the mission of thecompany.
It's really easy, becauseyou'll talk to someone who's
been proven to be a successfulbeauty entrepreneur, for example
, who's developed amulti-million dollar brand, and
they're telling you to do thesethree things just seem really
sort of unusual at this time,and so you really have to think
(23:45):
okay, do I just do those threethings or do I take a minute to
think are these the right thingsfor me to do at this stage?
In my company and I have a biastowards action I always want to
just jump on the next thing, andwhen I come away from some of
these meetings, I almost have anaction item list and I think,
okay, now I got to do these 10things they told me to do, and I
have to remind myself that Ineed to be a little bit more
(24:07):
deliberative and actually workthrough each of those to make
sure this is the right time todo it.
You know the advice is sound,it's very good and they're
proven to be successful.
So I know it's good advice, butit might not be the right time
for me.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah, I try to give some reflective points.
Sometimes the audience are in.
You know, take it if you wantto.
This is a big thing, as peoplegive you information, capture it
, and my background is AI andsome other stuff around this.
So before I became this, I wasconsulting on AI and intelligent
automation.
So I say this with the idea thatcapture as much data as you can
(24:39):
and about the person, theirsuccess, who they are, their
lens, if you will and startputting it into a thing called a
Google notebook LM, a privateLM for yourself, a chat GPT for
you, and just start putting yourdata in there, because you're
going to forget about some ofthe stuff, and some of the stuff
they're telling you isincredibly important, because
they're five years down the roadand they're like I wish I would
have done this, but you're likeI don't have the time for that.
(25:01):
They know that.
But they're like, man, I wish Iwould have made the time for
that, but you're like there's noway I'm doing that, and so, as
you start thinking through that,then you can start asking this
on your own LLM questions, like,hey, I want to stay on, that's
going to get me off brand, or isthis a business thing I should
be doing now, and those two areusually the two decisions I ask.
Is this something that gets meaway from what I sell, do and
(25:21):
solve?
Or is this more of a setup forbetter success, scale and anyway
?
So capture it all, put itsomewhere and go query it
occasionally.
You'll find that you'll.
You'll really be happy you didthat a year or two years I've
never even considered doing that.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
I think that's a really really good suggestion.
Yeah, thank you for that Wow.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
It's a way to scale your thinking, because you will
not be able to keep up with it.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I have stuff scribbled on notes and they're
literally like scattered allover my desk right now.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Just start putting into a note file and then you
dump it in there or put it onyour app and you just get a
context and just put in and saveit, save it, save it.
It's very worse.
Just put it in the chat.
I recommend doing that becauseit's a lot to keep up on and
there are a lot of gold nuggets.
But you'll not see it with therock encrusted around it, right?
So the AI will start.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yeah, I love that.
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
More work for you.
Here you go, list of things togo do shit's a brain dump.
Take all your stuff and braindump it somewhere else and then,
when you get stuck, go query it.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a great idea.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
I never heard of that .
Well, I mean, hey, this is whyI business coach people, right,
I can show them how to spendtheir money.
So well, no, this is free.
Actually, what are you mostgrateful for?
Speaker 2 (26:36):
I am most grateful, I guess, for being alive, first
and foremost, good one.
Someone I used to work withactually recently passed away
from cancer, and she was reallyin the prime of her life, very
joyful person.
She brought a lot of positivityto the world and those
tragedies, I think, make itreally clear that you can't be
(26:58):
wasting your time being unhappyor being stagnant.
Everyone's been put on thisplanet for a reason or many
reasons, and the journey isgetting to discover what those
reasons are.
So I'm very thankful that I'mhealthy now and I had this
opportunity to have newexperiences and just continue to
learn new things.
That's what I'm grateful forand just continue to learn new
things.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
That's what I'm grateful for.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Take our conversation and give a lawyer's closing
statement of advice to thelistener.
Hmm, I would say my advice isto be more curious about
yourself.
More curious about yourself.
Don't have a single track mind,but feel free and safe to
explore the things you might begreat at but just never thought
(27:47):
was part of your story, and youdon't have to turn like your
current life upside down to dothat.
You know that's a scary thingto do and also not actually
totally practical or feasible,depending upon know your
circumstances.
But you can do it in small waysto.
To start, you know, by takingon like a new hobby.
The other day I was thinking Iwant to learn to tap dance.
Um, and you can just learn howto do that on youtube and just
(28:09):
try it and see how that changeshow you feel about yourself and
does it unlock some new, likenewfound interest in expressing
yourself through throughmovement.
You know, um so things likenewfound interest in expressing
yourself through throughmovement.
You know, um so things likethat helps yourself in a
different way, helps you seeother people in a different way
and I think it ultimately bringsyou closer to knowing who you
are.
So I think that would be justacross the board advice.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I love it.
You know the idea.
The idea behind that issomething that I think I see a
lot.
I've done it myself.
Where it's you myself, whereit's stagnant and you stop
learning new things or tryingnew things.
And we left the autobiography.
But the other day I was like Iwouldn't play tennis for the
first time it sounds crazy inAtlanta, but I loved it.
I'm like, oh gosh, this mightruin my relationship because I'm
(28:54):
having too much fun and I mightwant to do this way too much,
because anything worth doing isworth overdoing.
Right and come on anyway.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Look, if you're an extremist, then you're in good
company, because that's how I am.
I'm like all in or not Do this.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
My friend was like, don't go buy rackets.
Like, oh, I'm going to buythree.
Like, if there's not one, we'vegot to get backups right.
Just because I get pissed andbreak one, we've got to.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Personally no.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
That is crazy that you just discovered tennis and
you live in Atlanta, because Ifeel like you can't drive more
than half a mile without comingup across some tennis court
somewhere.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
A little backdrop.
I played racquetballcompetitively through high
school and college and I loveracquet sports and I kind of got
burned out on it for like 15years.
Then I got really fat and thenI had gotten back in shape and
and then I got hurt and then Iwas like you know, I don't want
to play racquetball anymore.
I I'll do it recreationallymaybe, but I'm more likely to
(29:47):
get hurt Cause anyway.
So I was like I and all thesepeople are complete tennis and
they knew it.
And I went and played and myone friend was like for your
first day, you're pretty, youcan really hit it like, well, I
go once I get into this.
Yeah, my point being is on thatlist is also stand-up comedy.
I've been talking about that.
I'm gonna go do it.
I'm gonna go find a place andgo try it and and I'm like I
shouldn't be, I'm on tv.
The point being, you're makingsuch a great point because it's
(30:09):
like go, go, embarrass yourself,go try things, go do it,
because that's where lifehappens and we're all guilty of
saying till tomorrow, right ohyeah, I mean I recall my first
vendor meeting when I wasbuilding this company and I'm so
like embarrassed but also justI think it's very funny now when
I look back.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
I didn't, I didn't know like the terms of the trade
, you know.
So I would call things thethingy.
I was like, how do I pour theformula into the thing that
houses the product?
And the lady was just confusedbecause she didn't know what I
was talking about.
I didn't know the correct wordsto use.
But you can't let that sort ofembarrassment, you know, stop
you.
If you really want to dosomething, just do it.
(30:48):
No one's going to that.
That meeting was not recorded.
No one's going to play it backfor me to hear you just have to
just bite the bullet and be likewell, if I embarrass myself,
that's fine as part of theprocess yeah, you should have
recorded it, play it foryourself later, just when you
you know you sell the companyfor 100.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
You'd be like.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Let me show you my first meeting yeah, I don't even
know what to call a tube.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
I don't even know what you think of a jigger when
you fill with stuff from thatthat's exactly what I was
talking about.
I was like call me, you can rubit on the face.
What are you making exactly?
All right, four rapid firequestions.
Let's do this, okay, and I'mgoing to flip it, cause I
usually use the positive goingnegative today, I don't know why
.
What is the worst business?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
advice you've ever received oh, the worst business
advice I've ever received.
I mean, I understood what theywere saying.
It was to really do yourresearch and homework before you
start.
And I understood what they weresaying.
I wanted to make sure, assomeone who's not part of the
beauty industry, I really needto understand the landscape.
Um, and so they said, you know,make a business plan.
(31:51):
Uh, research your competitors,read about the risks inherent in
beauty.
You know one thing I do when Iinterview for for jobs or try to
get to know a company ifthey're public, I read their
form 10k and there's a wholesection on on risks, and I
really suggest that you know,really understand, what you're
getting yourself into.
And I don't think that wasgreat advice, because I think
(32:12):
when you're trying to start yourown company, it's important, of
course, to kind of know whatyou're getting into in a general
sense, but start.
So, if I flip the questionaround back, what was the best
advice I got?
It was to just start.
Just start and the pieces willsort of fall into place.
You take the first step and thenyou take the next step and
suddenly you're like, oh, wow,I'm actually doing this and it's
(32:39):
really hard and it's veryconfusing and painful at times,
but that's what it means to runa business.
It's not this sort ofromanticized idea of you sitting
in your office and everything'sgoing great.
Everything's always fallingapart.
That's just the nature ofrunning your own company.
So I think that probably wasn'tthe best advice.
I didn't take it, obviously.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
I think there's a degree of personality in it too.
Right, you should be learningthe business all the time.
But I agree with you, and we'reprobably on the same wavelength
of extreme is just start, justgo, and we'll you know, let's
head south Off.
We're heading to Florida.
We don't need to planeverything.
The idea is, though, focus onthe problem that you're solving,
(33:18):
and who cares what's thedesperate problem you're going
to solve and for whom?
And if you got those two thingstogether, the offer, the
service, the product will comescreaming at you of what you
need to go build or do, and thenit's just a question of well,
how do I do that?
And then that's just a questionof well, how do I do that?
And then that's that's when itkicks in.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
That's when you do the research of, like, what
product cools a face and sendburnt the hole inside of my face
, right and really, because nowit's around a problem, it's
around an adventure, a story itactually makes me kind of sad
sometimes when I think about howmany incredible ideas for new
products and services are outthere that someone has thought
about but they never acted on,because they were just like
(34:00):
waiting for the right moment.
They're waiting for the rightpartner they were waiting for I
don't know something to forcethem to do it.
You know, there's just not aright time.
You just gotta, you just gottado it.
And I, I, I just wonder howmany wonderful ideas haven't
been born yet.
Someone's not ready, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
More than have made it out.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
See it kind of repeats in life, right, there's
like a million things that go toone egg and it's like not
everything survives, right.
So, like that, one good idea Igot through.
So anyway, that's probably thesame ratio.
Life tends to repeat itself inmath.
Who gives you inspiration?
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Oh, my parents.
My parents give me a lot ofinspiration.
I would say you know about them.
You may have incredible stories.
My dad's actually written hismemoirs.
I wish my mom would too as well, because it's so, so unique.
But they both left their homecountries to experience the
world.
And they didn't have to leave,they just chose to take kind of
a leap of faith and see what wason the other side, and I think
(34:58):
that sense of adventure, senseof curiosity, is something that
really inspires me.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
I love that.
It's beautiful.
Not everybody can say that,Okay.
So if somebody is about to gostart, do you have a book,
though you would say this is agood one to read first.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
There are so many books.
I mean I think I haven't quitefound the book that gives me
inspiration as an entrepreneuryet I like read several, but I
haven't found one that was likethis is the Holy Grail.
But when I think back on mylegal career, there definitely
is a book that comes to mind.
When I graduated from lawschool my dad gave me this book.
(35:41):
It was called Nice Girls Don'tGet the Corner Office and I
really liked that book a lotbecause I'm people please their
by nature and the book sort oftalks about how that type of
behavior, while very positive inday-to-day life, it doesn't
really get you far in theprofessional world because
people misinterpret that asweakness or incompetence.
(36:02):
So that's a book I'd recommendjust for people in their legal
careers, especially women.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
All right, Now exploring Pierce versus Post.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
What is that?
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Come on, it's like day one of law school Pierce
versus Post Bucks get shot.
You know what I have to tellyou this.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
I hated law school.
I hated day one of law school.
Pierce versus Post Bucks getshot.
I have to tell you this I hatedlaw school.
I hated every second of lawschool.
I got there and I was like whatis this?
My goal my whole life becausemy parents told me to be a
lawyer was to get into lawschool.
I just never even thought aboutwhat actually is taught in law
school.
And I got there and I found itso boring.
And it's a struggle to getthrough.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
I gotta pay back the law school loans but never got
my jd.
I'll leave it at that, okay.
Okay, I was like doing payrollin the background.
I don't say I'm running, Ianyway.
Another day over coffee I'llexplain.
Um, yeah, I was like who caresabout this stuff?
If you had to start over today,where in your timeline, where
would you go and what would youdo differently?
Speaker 2 (37:00):
this is a very, almost like, difficult question
for me to answer because Iactually wouldn't do anything
differently, and I'm sure youget that response.
But I wouldn't do anythingdifferently.
All the good parts, all the badparts, all the painful parts
make up your life story.
You know, maybe I wouldn't,maybe I wouldn't have like
permed my hair when I was ninebecause I looked like a poodle
in some of these photographs.
Like maybe that.
But in terms of like decisions,in terms of you know, when you
(37:24):
reach a fork in the road and youtake the road less traveled or
whatnot, like, I wouldn't changeany of those decisions, even if
they turned out you know tothink it's part of my story.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
This was a.
This is one of those weirdperson I test you had said
everything happens for me.
You just confirmed it.
Um the uh.
Actually only about two peopleout of a few hundred interviews
have ever said that and trulythe best answer anyone's ever
given though, though that is agreat one.
It's a, it's a life and noregrets was.
I wish I would have gotten ablack coffee instead of a latte.
And he said but I'm gonnacorrect that right after this.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
And he said but I'm gonna correct that right after
this.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
It's pretty damn good answer right there next present
in the moment.
So if there's a question, Ishould have asked you today I
didn't.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
What would that question have been?
It would be where can youpurchase tender cosmetics?
It's coming next you have thatone coming so all the answer is
tender dash cosmeticscom, but ifyou want something, I guess
more.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
I mean, I like she was, that's a pretty good, no,
meaningful, it didn't.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
I would say maybe the question she asked me but
didn't is when do I see myselfin 10 years?
Is where do I see myself in 10years?
And the answer is I can't thinkof like a specific role or like
a specific scenario that I wantto be experiencing in 10 years,
but I just hope that I'm happy,I hope that I'm healthy and I
(38:50):
hope that I'm doing things andspending time, you know, with
people that appreciate and loveme.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
I was going to ask you really actually about the
safari you're going on heretomorrow, so give me, give me
the two minutes on the safari,cause you've talked about doing
different things.
You've left that one off.
That's a pretty cool one.
That's beyond tap dancing.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
It is.
We're still coming back to that, though, yeah, so I just uh,
I've always wanted to go onsafari, and now that I'm my own
boss and I make my own schedule,I can actually make it happen.
Um and so Kenya is thedestination.
I heard that was the place tosee the most diverse sort of
range of animals, and, uh, I'm alittle scared because I had to
get like three vaccines and I'mtaking these anti-malarials.
(39:33):
I just hope I come back alivewithout some, you know, deathly
illness.
But, yeah, I think it's goingto be fun.
I think I think nature ishealing.
I think watching animals in thewild just survive and and and
live the way I think Godintended all creatures to live
(39:54):
is profound, and so I'm reallylooking forward to feeling, you
know, changed by that experience.
I hope I will be.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
I can't imagine you wouldn't be, and hopefully for
the more positive.
And I do hope you come backwith great skin, because it
really is going to wreck yourbrand if they can't use your
face.
You're like I went to after andI didn't.
We'll change the story at thatpoint.
Shameless plug time for you.
Uh, who should get a hold ofyou?
How do they do it?
Speaker 2 (40:18):
um, anyone who wants to learn about more, learn more
about tender cosmetics, anyonewho wants to, uh, consider a
career pivot, or who's startingbusiness.
I love to talk with people likethat because I find it very
encouraging.
It kind of keeps me going whenI'm sort of surrounded by people
who are kind of in the sameworld as I am now.
And you can find me on LinkedIn.
I have a personal Instagramit's underscore, linglingme
(40:40):
underscore and then my businessInstagram is tendercosmetics and
you can sort of follow thebrand, follow what we're
launching, all the differentcampaigns we're doing on
Instagram.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Well, thank you so much for taking a few moments of
your day with me.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Thank you very much.
This was really great.
I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Appreciate it and anybody who's still here.
Thank you for being here andmaking it to this part of the
show.
If this is your first time here, I do hope it's the first of
many, and if you've been herebefore, thanks for coming back.
Get out there, go cut a tie tosomething holding you back, but
first define.
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