Ebenezer Ekuban

He moved from Ghana to the United States when he was 7. Ebenezer Ekuban didn’t know anything about football and had no aspirations of playing the game because he was focused on academics. When his father told him he needed to do something outside of school, Ebenezer decided to try football his junior year of high school. He became a quick learner on both sides of the ball, playing tight end and defensive end and after just two years of high school ball, he turned some heads and had a number of offers to play in college.

He opted for the University of North Carolina where he played tight end sparingly for two years, then was switched to defensive end and thrived. So much so, the Dallas Cowboys moved up to draft him in the first round of the 1999 NFL Draft. At that point, Ebenezer became the first Ghana born player in the NFL.

Injuries crept in during his 5 years in Dallas and he dealt with three different head coaches, including Bill Parcells. It didn’t take long for Eb to realize he wasn’t a “Parcells Guy.” He signed with the Browns as a free agent and then the next season was traded to the Broncos where he fell in love with Denver. After 10 years in the NFL, Ebenezer and his wife Karen made their home in the Mile High City where they are raising four children.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
And they had put in this playcalled Orange Special. This is my sophomore
year. It was a seam routewhere I was going to be wide open
because of whatever the quarterback and theoffense line we're going to do. They
said, this is your ball,You're going to catch it and you're gonna
score. We get the Syracuse.My number is called up. All right,
I get in the game. Theball is snapped Orange Special. I'm

(00:21):
wide open. The ball comes tome perfectly. Everything moves so slow,
so perfectly. The ball hits mein my hands and I drop it wide
open, a clear drop. Welcometo Cut, Traded, Fired, Retired,
a weekly podcast featuring conversations with professionalathletes and coaches who have experienced being

(00:44):
cut, traded, fired, andor they're retired. I'm your host,
Susie Wargen. Ebenezer Ecuban not onlyhas one of the greatest names, he
was also the first player from Ghanato play in the NFL. That's a
cool stat but also consider this,Ebenezer didn't start playing foot football until he
was a junior in high school.He played tight end and defensive end in
high school, and then tight endhis first two years in college. At

(01:07):
the University of North Carolina, thencame a dropped pass during a game.
UNC recruited some guy named Algie Crumpler, and Ebenezer moved over to the defensive
side of the ball, where hethrived with the tar Heels and became a
first round draft pick of the DallasCowboys. He spent five years in Dallas,
dealt with three head coaches and afew injuries, then signed as a

(01:29):
free agent with the Browns. Aftera season there, he was traded to
the Broncos, where he finished aten year NFL career. He's got some
great stories and continues to stay humblethanks to his very grounded beginnings in Ghana.
Ladies and Gentlemen. Ebenezer Ekuban cuttraded, fired, retired podcast with
Susie Wargin Ebenezer Ecuban, how areyou. I'm doing fantastic, good good.

(01:56):
It's great to see you. Youlook like you could still play.
Do you feel like you can stillplay? Well? You know what,
It's interesting A lot of people saythat I could give you about five snaps
right now, and that's about it. I mean, I watched these guys
and man, I've been retired sincetwo thousand and nine, and they've just
got faster, stronger, and it'sjust amazing to see these guys move the

(02:20):
way they don't. Yeah, Iknow, they just keep getting better,
which doesn't seem like it's possible.I mean, you you have d Lineman
running four fives and four fours atthe combine. Yeah, I mean,
what'd you run? I ran afour to six eight. But you have
to take into account they have anadvantage because they have win aided equipment,

(02:40):
were adynamic. We were running abaggy shorts and thick soled sneakers that were
an inch stick at the bottom.So it's all relative right now, I'm
sure I could run a four orfive eight with all that gear, with
all that gear, absolutely more propsto them. Oh, I love it.
I love it. All Right,Well, I'm so glad you're here

(03:00):
because we're going to kind of gothrough your whole story. You've got a
very cool upbringing in the fact thatyou were born in Ghana. I was.
I was at the age of seven. My dad brought myself and my
sisters to the United States, obviouslyjust for better opportunities, and never had
an interest in football at all.I was always a big kid a little

(03:21):
bit on Chubby's side more so thananything else. And I came home one
day and my dad said, youknow what, you need to do something.
You can't just go to school andcome home and do nothing. He
was a real, real disciplinarian andalways focused on academics, so everything was
just academics, good grades, that'sall that matters. But he said,
you need to do something more.So I tried out for the football team

(03:42):
my eleventh grade year in high schooland played okay, I mean the first
year was so bad. I meanjust running around like a chicken with his
heads cut off because I didn't startany of the terminology. All I knew
about football was growing up in Washington, DC. Washington Washington Redskins play,
So instead of being in a quoteunquote jock and knowing all the things to

(04:02):
do on the field, I justpretty much just ran with the coaches told
me to run, stop when theytold me to stop, catch the ball
when they threw it to me.And it was fun but definitely definitely hard
and a big adjustment my first yearlearning cur So it was your junior year
of high school. You were inMaryland at Blandensburg High School, yeah,
Bladensburg or Bladensburg, Okay, thankyou. And you were a two way

(04:23):
player. You played tight end aswell as defensive ends. I did.
I went both ways. And Ialso was the kicker, the team kicker.
Yeah, I would you like betterback in high school playing on offense
or defense or special teams for thatmatter. No, it definitely was not
special teams. I was a straightahead kicker, so I kicked with my

(04:45):
toes, so you never knew wherethe ball would go on kickoff. Sometimes
it go out of bounds. SometimesI would hit a good one and it
would go deep. But it wasn'tlike these kickers who kicked with the solid
of your foot and all that.Who knew you had to do that or
could do that. So I definitelyenjoyed offense. I love catching the ball.
I could do that really well.I had great hands for not playing

(05:06):
football that long. And I definitelyenjoyed the offensive side of the ball the
most. You had five touchdowns andeleven sacks. I believe your senior year
were you still a two way player? Your senior year? Was that your
junior year? That was my senioryear? Okay, yeah, mind you?
My junior year was just trying toget my feet wet, figuring out

(05:27):
how you play it. I wasjust a big kid trying to hit,
trying to not get hit. Andby my senior year, though, I
was really enjoying the game of football, learning the little nuances of this is
why this happens, and this iswhy you have to be here versus there,
and it really started growing on me. Then I started watching more pro
football, watching more of the Redskinsgames, and I started putting two and

(05:49):
two together. Oh okay, nowit makes sense. And I started becoming
more of a student of the game, not just being out there just to
be out there, just to havefun. All those academics that your dad
taught kind of came to fruition.I bet you were an honor student in
high school, so you had thesmarts to pick up the game. I
picked it up very fast, especiallythe terminology. It was more so of

(06:10):
the technique that I needed to workon and not just relying on my big
size just to get things done,but knowing the proper technique to get things
done instead of just overpowering people.And I just remember my head coach was
Pat Murphy. He said, man, you know what do you really like
this game? Because you sure arequiet? This was me. I'm an
introvert at heart, yes, veryreserved, very quiet, and all around

(06:33):
me there are guys that are brah. I'm like, what is all this
nonsense for? Why do you haveto do all that before a game?
Why do you have to do allthat before practices? So I just learned
from an early early on, justbe yourself and you are who you are.
Don't fake it to make it.Just be who you are and just
work hard and play hard and thatshould be good enough. I want to

(06:53):
go back a little bit to yourtime in Ghana when you were growing up
until you were seven. What doyou remember about that and what was that
like as an up and how didthat help shape kind of who you then
became. As you said, you'rekind, You're a huge human being,
and you would think that there's alot there, but you're very, very
reserved. I mean, my timein Ghana was great. I still remember
it. I've been back. Thelast time I went back was in college.

(07:15):
I had planned to take my familyback, but then COVID hit because
I wanted my younger kids to getolder so they could actually remember the moment,
still planning to go next year.I just remember I grew up with
my grandmother taking care of me becausemy mom and dad had split. My
mom had moved to London, mydad moved to DC DC area. He
was working for the Cynicalese Embassy.So my grandmother, her name was Ontifio,

(07:40):
she raised me. I just rememberthe humble beginnings of going with her
to the market every weekend to sellfruits and produce fresh bread, whatever she
had made. I would always helpher carry the bags, and while she's
working, I'm underneath, planning around, walking around, just being a goofy
old five six seven year old kid. You know, that start really humbled

(08:01):
me to learn to appreciate where I'vecome and how far I still have to
go, and without that struggle.But being that age, you never thought
it was a struggle. This wasjust life. You didn't know what you
didn't know. This was just life, and it was a great life.
Everything was simple. Help my grandmotherout, come home clean, do the
dishes, go to school in myuniform, have some friends play soccer in

(08:24):
the yard. I mean, thiswas it was a great life. And
I wouldn't change anything about that lifebecause it propelled me to where I am
now and when I came to theUS. You know, obviously there are
more creature comforts, but having thatstart and having that mentality of, you
know, the simplicity of life,yes, carried over when I came here,

(08:46):
even though things were more luxurious,even though we had more opportunities,
even though quote unquote things were easierfinancially. But those things that humble beginning
really just transformed and translated all theway back to where I am and who
I am now. Wow, andhow old are your sisters? I have
six sisters, so I gotta Iknow. I'm the downy boy. You're

(09:07):
the only boy downy boy, andI have two older and four younger.
So safe to say that having bathroomtime for myself non existent, always an
issue. And I think that's whyI'm so reserved, because I grew up
up around a lot of talkers.I don't think females like to talk today
sometimes, so oh my gosh,you probably couldn't get a word in edgewise.

(09:30):
I could never. My sisters wouldalways say, I remember when I
got married. They told my wife, he's a little quiet. She asked
him, how was how was Igrowing up. She said, he's a
little quiet. He doesn't say much. He kind of just comes home,
gets in his little corner, doeshis work. He'ts go to sleep.
And I was like, well,what do you think is going to happen?
You don't let me talk. Yeah, but it was great, funny,

(09:52):
It was great. That's funny.All right. So let's get back
then into high school and you decidedto go to the University of North Carolina.
Did you have a opportunities in otherplaces? Did you make the five
visits that a lot of guys make. I did. I did my first
visit. Well, let me startoff by this, Never in my life
did I envision even going to college, even going to college on a football

(10:15):
scholarship. I was going to goto college regardless, but more so on
an academic route versus the athletic route. So when this whole recruiting phase started,
I mean, I was kind ofbewildered, kind of shocked that,
oh wow, I can actually,you know, use this as a tool
to get a free education. Youknow, at that time, like you
said, you have the five visits, A lot of people they were just

(10:35):
making decisions. Made me take aone or two and I was like,
no, if I get five,I'm going to go to five and I'm
going to enjoy it. And that'swhat I did. My dad he wanted
me to go to Boston College becausehe was big on academics. He wanted
me to go to a private school. So my first visit was to Boston
College. And let's just say Igot off that planning in January and I

(10:58):
say, well, no, Iam not going to Boston College. Great
school, great visit, great players. But I was freezing the whole weekend
and I got back home and Isaid, oh, yeah, it's a
great school. Dad, Yeah,definitely, definitely, I think I want
to go there. Because I couldn'ttell him no because it was cold.

(11:18):
Yeah, I couldn't tell him no, not because of that reason. Yeah,
So he allowed me to take myother four visits. I say,
Dad, yeah, I'm gonna goto Boston College, but you know,
I just want to take all theseother four just to have fun, not
to have fun. My second visit, it was supposed to be to Hawaii,
but Hawaii said that I had averbally commit before they got my flight,

(11:39):
and I was like, okay,I guess that's not gonna happen because
I was just trying to go toHawaii. Just I've never been to Hawaii
before. So my second visit,I actually went to see you you did.
I came here. Terry Lewis wasmy recruiting coordinator and flew me out
here. I had a great trip. I remember Desmond Thomas and Phil so

(12:00):
Void they were my host because theywere from the Maryland, DC area.
I just remember coming here, hada great time, visited, hung out
with Rashaan Salam all those guys,Cordell Stewart, and I'm like, wow,
this is what college football is about. And I really had a good
time, and I thought this wasthe place that I was going to come
really because this was the first tripwhere I actually like felt kind of home.

(12:24):
I guess you guys had one ofthose warm February or January days.
Yeah, it wasn't like Boston Collegewhere it was ten below so I think
it was a balmy thirty five,but the sun was out so it felt
like right like fifty. Nice.Yeah, we had a great weekend.
That was my second visit. Mythird visit was to UCLA. Never wanted
to go to UCLA. I'm beinghonest, but I never been, never

(12:48):
been to California before, so I'mlike, let me just go there.
Sure I knew I wasn't going togo there. Fourth visit was the UVA
University of Virginia. That was agreat visit and my dad liked UVA too,
because he actually accompanied me to thatvisit because it was close to DC,
so we drove up there. Hereally liked UVA for the fact that
it was close to the house,it was a great academic institution, and

(13:09):
he can come support me. Soafter four I was pretty much done.
I'm like, okay, all right, he likes UVA. He wanted me
to go to Boston College. Ilike, cee you, I think I'm
going to go to see you becausethat's what I liked. Yeah, my
fifth visit, a call came fromUniversity of North Carolina was Mike Brown.
Mac Brown called said, hey,I Beneezer, can you give me one

(13:30):
shot? Just one shot. Iknow you're already thinking you're going to go
to see you. You have yourheart set on making a decision. Just
give us a try. Just comegive us a tour of our campus and
just see no obligations. Just come. Mat came to my house the next
week. He was the only headcoach to come personally recruit me, the
only one, the only one headcoach. I have beat coordinators recruiting coordinators,

(13:56):
but he was the only head coachto come to my house and sit
in my living room with my dadand say, hey, you know what
I talked to Ebenezer last week.We will love you to come on campus
for its fifth tour. And Idid. And when you know it,
I get to UNC and something hitme in my gut, like, wow,
this is where I need to be. I didn't do a lot of

(14:20):
research on the players, the school, whatever, but it just felt like
home. It felt right, Itfelt right. I went back home and
I said Dad, I'm going NorthCarolina. He's like, sure, you
don't want to go to Boston College. I was like, no, I'm
not going to Boston College. Ialready knew that. Yeah, I already
knew that. I did that.I was like, you, sure you
don't want to go to see you. It's like, Dad, I love
to see you. But you knowwhat, something just felt right about Chapel

(14:41):
Hill. So that's all she wrote, and that's why I made my decision.
Oh how smart of you to takeall five, because you're right,
so many guys will just do acouple and then they don't know what they
missed out on. And had younot taken that fifth one, how different
everything could have been for you.It could have been so different. And
I'm so glad I did because ifI would have just commit to see you,
I would have never explored Carolina,and who knows how my future would

(15:03):
have turned out. And I justremember the biggest thing coming out of high
school. Every coach, they allhad the same line, hmhm, you
only play two years of football?Hunt really only one because your eleventh grade
year you didn't really do much.But you know what, You're big and
you can run. We can teachyou football. Just get here, we'll
teach you football. But you're bigand you can run. We can work

(15:24):
with that. Like, okay,all right, where do I sign?
They want the body? They wantthe body? Yeah, the body.
That's funny. So your freshman andsophomore year at UNC, you don't start,
but you're on offense. My freshmanand sophomore year, I didn't red
shirt. I had wanted to redshirt because I was so new to the
game. I thought that's what peopledo to learn the game, get a

(15:46):
year underneath their belt. They toldme, no, you're not resturing.
You're going to be a backup toFreddie Jones. You're too big of a
body. We can use you now. So I mean, what am I
gonna say? I can't say no, you know. I mean? So
I played my first and second year. I backed up Freddy Jones, who
was an all acc tight end.Yeah, he played counting years in the

(16:07):
NFL, ten years. That wasa great experience. He was also from
the Maryland, DC area, whichis kind of cool. Yeah, connection,
so we jailed and connected in thatway. So I backed him up
for two years. I was nevera problem kid on the field, just
did what I said, went toschool, good grades. And my junior
year it was my time to shinebecause Freddy had graduated. So this is

(16:30):
my time. I've put in mydudes, I've worked hard for two years.
Back in the mouth. Okay,I'm going to shine right now.
Let's just say that things didn't goas planned. I guess that's the best
way to say things didn't go asplanned because it's actually happened to My sophomore
year. We were playing at Syracuse. I was backing up Freddy Jones.

(16:52):
Tim Brewster was my head coach.He was just a Titans coach. Yeah,
he was my Titans coach. Excuseme, now, my head coach.
MC Brown was the head coach.He was my Tennans coach at the
time. And they had put inthis play called Orange Special. This is
my sophomore year at Syracuse. Itwas a seam route where I was going
to be wide open because of whateverthe quarterback and the offense line we're going
to do. They said, thisis your ball, You're gonna catch it

(17:15):
and you're gonna score. We getthe Syracuse My number is called up.
All right, I get in thegame, the ball is snapped Orange Special.
I'm wide open. The ball comesto me perfectly. Everything moves so
slow, so perfectly. The ballhits me in my hands and I drop
it wide open, a clear drop. I walked back to the sideline.

(17:40):
Hey, we still won that game, but obviously I was pretty disappointed.
Yeah, and you know, Ijust remember getting back on the bus and
I had this stern look from MacBrown even though we won, you know,
because he wanted me to catch it. And I always like Mac,
but he remembered that play because inthe offseason after my sophomore year, recruited
a guy named Algie Crumpler. Oh, I wonder why they him out of

(18:06):
all the tight ends available, Whywould you recruit a good one? Well,
obviously I wasn't there tight end,but Algie came in and he just
awed everybody. He awed me becauseeverything that I struggled to do on that
side of the ball being a tightend, it was effortless for him.

(18:29):
Obviously he had been groomed a longtime. His dad played in the league.
His brother, I believe car Lesterwas a tight end the league.
He just came in and I'm like, Wow, he's only a true freshman
and he's doing all this already.How far is he going to get?
So I saw the right on thewall. The coaches saw the writing on
the wall. They still remembered OrangeSpecial from Syracuse. Mac Brown calls me

(18:53):
in the office and says, youknow what, Evniezer, Hey, you're
a great tight end, but I'mjust like, you know right now,
this kid's better than you. Soif you want to stick the football and
get some playing time, we didn'teven move you on the defensive line in
the field because you know what,we had a lot of departures. You
can fit in well there with yoursize and speed. We know there's going
to be a learning curve, butthat's where we need you. It's your

(19:15):
choice to make do whatever you wantto do. And obviously you have to
remember during those times in nineteen ninetyseven nineteen ninety six, there was no
transfer portal. Oh heck no.So you get this speech from your head
coach saying, hey, this iswhat's going to happen. Someone's better than
you, that's behind you, he'sgoing to be playing. If you want

(19:37):
to stay be a backup. Sureyou can back him up, or you
can move to the other side ofthe ball where we can get you in
the fold rotation, get some reps, and I think you'll be really good
at that position. I call mydad. It wasn't even no brainer.
He's like, what are you callingme for? I was like that,
what do you mean? What amI calling for? He said that I
have to move to defense, hesaid, And so your question is,

(20:00):
yeah, your question is you're there, You're there for your education, move
over to defense, get good grades, and do what you want to do.
Afterwards, I'm like, okay,that wasn't much help. Yeah,
So next day I talked to back. I said, okay, let's do
it. Let's do it. Itrust that you're gonna put me in the
best position available to make me abetter player. And that's what he did,

(20:22):
and I moved over to the defense. And the transition was tough,
a new whole new learning curve,whole new learning curve, whole new curve.
But you know what, it wasgood that I went through that,
and that's when I started really seeingjust how different both sides were. The
Only thing I missed I don't't sayI missed it, but Tim Brewster he
would curse you out in a minute. He would he would look deep inside

(20:47):
your soul when you messed up attight end and curse you out in a
minute. When I moved over tothe defensive side of the ball, my
position coach was Donnie Thompson, andhe was a good coach during coach,
but he was more of a comicaljovi, you know what I mean,
like telling country jokes this or that. So it made it easier to enjoy
that side of the ball him beingmy position coach than when Tim Brewster was

(21:10):
cursing me out for taking one badstep on an alignment or whatever. So
that's funny. When you are asenior, you set a school record for
twenty three tackles for losses, you'rean All American All CC, and you're
on the Dean's List. How'd youbalance a switching over to the defensive side
and learning that and then also academics, Obviously you did them both very well.

(21:32):
I did. I did it,but that comes from my foundation.
Academics has never been anything. Ihad to work. I mean I had
to work. I had a study, but it's always been ingraining me to
what you do. That's what youdo. Never bring a sea home.
That was a rule in the house. Never bring a sea home. Okay
b's, okay, a's are verygood bees I'll take, but you never

(21:55):
better bring your sea home. AndI never did. Wow, And you
have that same rule for your ChILI do I do, which sometimes I
have to really watch myself because I'mlike, ah, this B minus is
kind of like a C in mybook. But I'll let you slide on
that. So I still have thesame rules. But it gives them a
bar. Absolutely, it gives youa bar. And if you strive for

(22:17):
greatness. You're gonna be great.You know, if you bring your top
notch game every play or every timein the classroom, and you try to
keep getting better and better and better, those things would naturally come. But
it all comes with preparation, anythingyou do setting yourself up for success.
And so the transition academically, no, it wasn't hard because I was accustomed
to it. I was used togoing to class. I was used to

(22:38):
doing my homework. I was usedto going to study hall. I was
used to doing what I do academically. Now, the transition athletically from the
offensive side to the defensive side wasa lot easier than I envisioned. What
I found out, I would saymy first month during the transition was how
freer I was playing defensive end.And I say that because when I was

(23:02):
at tight end, I was alwaysa thinker. When you're running a route,
you have to decipher, Hey,is this a zone? Is this
man or man? Where do Isit? Where do I go? So
you constantly having to navigate what thedefense is giving you to know where you
have to go. You'll constantly whenyou line up to block a defensive end,
who does a take inside? Hard? You have to adjust your angles

(23:22):
this or that. But when Igot to the defense side of the ball,
put your hand in the dirt,go follow that ball. Get somebody.
I mean pretty much, That's whatI was told the first month.
Put your hand in the dirt andgo get who we got the ball.
That was Donny Thompson. Put yourhand on dirt, go get who got
the ball? Like, okay,I can do that. And I rotated

(23:45):
in and it was very intimidating.I'm not gonna lie because at that time
in Carolina we had some pretty stellardefensive lineman Vonney Holliday, we had Marcus
Jones, we had Greg Gallis,we had so many guys that I went
first round the NFL that I wasbacking up while I learned, and I
saw what it took to become great, and that competition, pushing them or

(24:11):
trying to push them made me betterbecause I knew I had somebody in front
of me that I could look upto how things are done. And everybody
was good. Everybody was great,took me in under their arms, showed
me everything, And after got throughthe first phase of just going after the
ball, I started learning the nuancesof defensive line play and that also made
it more fun. So obviously whateverthey did did rub off on you because

(24:34):
you go in the first round ofthe NFL Draft, the Cowboys trade up
to get you. Yeah, tothis day, I'm still shocked. I
mean, having played two years ofhigh school football, yeah, having played
the first two years a tight endin college, having played just two years
of defense, and to be afirst round pick. I mean, I
tell you what, only God couldwrite that path. That's a movie script.

(24:57):
They should do a movie on yougot the greatest name ever. So
oh, thank you very much.And don't forget first ever player from Ghana
to be in the NFL. AndI never thought about it. Like I
said, I watched the Redskins.I love watching them. But at that
time, I remember Christianna Koye theNigeria Nightmare, and you know, I

(25:18):
like watching him because he was fromAfrica, but I never put two and
two together that he's from Nigeria,I'm from Ghana and I'm the first Like
I never thought like that, ButI'm like, wow, you couldn't have
scripted this or written this down thatthis what your future holds. But you
know, I just prided myself onwhatever I do. I can't control the

(25:44):
outcome, but I can control thepresent, and that present is every day
that you practice. Make sure it'syour best practice, or at least try
to make it your best practice.And I try to tell my kids that,
like every practice is not going tobe perfect, but control what you
can control, and what you canrole is your effort. Effort, effort,
effort. If you have good effort, you make a mistake, your

(26:04):
coach ain't gonna be pissed off atyou. But if you have effort and
you make a great play, yourall world. Yeah you know what I
mean. But the common denominator iseffort. Go hard all the time,
and you'll never be wrong. Absolutelyyour NFL or your rookie season. You
are on the All Rookie team forthe NFL. Your second year, that's

(26:27):
when you have the toe injury.Is that kind of your first major injury?
Did you have anything in college whereyou were injured or was that the
first time? That was a bigfirst time. I just remember in college
I was healthy as can be.And maybe because guys were smaller, slower,
and you'd only played for a coupleof years in high school, you
didn't have that repetitiveness since Pop Warneror something like that, and I noticed

(26:49):
that to retract back to high school. I think that really helped me.
I bet it did, because Inoticed my senior year a lot of the
guys that I played with my junioryear, they didn't want to play anymore.
And I was like, you're agood player, why aren't you playing.
He's like, oh, I don'twant to get hit anymore. I'm
tired of being hit. And thosesame kids were playing at seven six,

(27:12):
seven, eight years old getting hitall the time. Yeah, And I'm
like, oh, wow, Scott'sa limit for me. This is new,
this is fun, I'm learning newthings. And they were burnt out
already. And that was the mainreason to this day I kept my kids
out of football until high school.Makes sense, yeah, because not only

(27:33):
because of the bodilygue now with allthe CT stuff and confessions, but I
told them, hey, if youget to high school, you choose to
do what you want to do.You know, if you want to hang
out with your friends and play football, go ahead and do that. But
you know you're not going to doanything to high school. Yeah. No,
And I think there's a huge burnoutfactor and you see it, especially
with parents that get their kids intothings so early thinking they're going to make

(27:53):
it far. You know, mykids got great potential that you can see
at five years old. And thenby the time the kid kids, the
kid gets to high school, they'reburnt out. They're burnt out. Yeah,
which is too bad. It isbad because you know, sometimes I
get it because it's a total differentlandscape now being a youngster playing sports than
it was when I played. Imean when I was young, my football

(28:15):
coach encouraged me to play out thesports, play basketball, play baseball.
But now it's like, oh no, we're gonna stick to this sport.
You have to specialize, like wow, yeah, which I think is is
such a disservice to the athlete.It's work. Yeah at ten years old
onwards. Yeah, you can't evenenjoy the game. It's work. So

(28:37):
you have all this time invested forwhat if you don't get a full college
scholarship. You've already paid for college, So now you're gonna pay for college
again with all the yeah, thetravel, yeah, personal coaching workouts in
the off season, specialized camps,all this, and that you're paying for
college now. Son, if youdo that for you, Dawn. If

(29:00):
your kid don't get a scholarship,you paying for college twice. It's a
great way to look at it.It's true. Yeah, all right,
so you get that injury. Thenyour second year in the season, you
have a toe injury. What wasthat like? Because I do talk to
a lot of guys about the injuryfactor and how lonely that gets. And
if that's your first one and it'sin the pros and it's your second year,

(29:22):
it's frustrating. It's frustrating. Andmost people would think, well,
it's just a toe, like,oh, but you have to have your
toes. It was my big toethat I gets located, and that'll put
your balance off and everything, andit's just hurts so bad. And I
just I mean, that's where allyour talk comes from being a rusher,
you know, when you bend,all your power comes from there. And

(29:42):
at that time, playing for theDallas Cowboys, we had that artificial turf
that wasn't like what we have nowwith all the black stuff that pops out
and softer. It was literally acarpet rolled over concrete. God, so
horrible for you, Yeah, butit was definitely frustrating. Ever been hurt
in college, never been heard inhigh school, and not till I got

(30:03):
to the Cowboys. My second yearwas my first major injury. Then it
just it's almost like a domino effectafter that. Then I heard any disk
after that, and then little thingsafter that, and it's just, you
know, one thing after another,trying to come back. Then something else
happens trying to come back, andsomething else happens. But you know,

(30:25):
the Cowboys drafted me first round.I believe I was the twentieth or raw
pick, so they had high expectationsfor me to come in and produce a
SAP. They had drafted Greg Ellisthe year prior from North Carolina, who
I backed up in the first round. So the next following year they're drafted
me to come in and so wecan be the two bookends. And you

(30:48):
know, I appreciate Jerry Jones foreverything it did. I wish things would
have turned out, but you know, I can't. I can't control injuries,
you know what I mean? Andyou know else came in right in
two thousand and three, and therewere some you guys didn't quite see it
right. We didn't because you mind, you chang Gelly was my first coach.
After two years, he was firedand I think Dave Campo became the

(31:14):
second coach, And so Parcels wasyour third coach, the third coach in
five years. But with Parcels allthe prior the two other coaches there were
four to three guys. I wasrunning a four to three difference. Zimmer
was our defensive coordinator, the exhead coach of the Vikings, Mike Zimmer
Zimmer, So we were always afour to three defense, which I came

(31:36):
from college and I was customed to. When Bill Parcelles came, Obviously,
Bill's Parcels is a three to fourguy, but during that transition he had
to play that three four to threebecause he had to get more of his
guys in whatever. So his firstyear there we still ran a four to
three. But I just wasn't Bill'sguy. Great coach, but you know,

(31:57):
Bill, you his guy or you'renot his guy, you know what
I mean? Yeah, And thatgoes for every coach in the NFL,
I'm sure. And that's when itreally hit me that you know, it
doesn't matter what you've done, orhow emphatic you are, or how good
you are, sometimes is you're aperson's guy or you're not his guy.
Yeah, And I remember, Ibelieve its against the Philadelphia Eagles. I

(32:21):
haven't been playing all year, playingokay, And I came into the locker
room and I didn't see any ofmy gear in my locker room. Unbeknownst
to me the night before, Imean, we travel, we stay in
a hotel, we have team meetings. No one said anything to me,
Hey, you're going to be anactor in the next game. So I
walk in the locker room thinking everythingwas normal. I see no pads,

(32:42):
no jersey, no nothing in lockerroom. And I'm like, what's going
on. I went to Mike McCord, who was an equipment guy. He's
like, you're not playing, Likeokay, Like what's going on. It's
like, I don't know. Ijust do what I'm told. You're not
playing. I didn't put your stuffin the locker. Oh. So you
know, as a champ, Igot out there. I stood on the
sidelines ra ha ha, you know, save face as best I could.

(33:06):
But that hurt hard. That hurthard. That was a road game.
That was a road game. AndI'm like, you know what, you
know what, that's not cool.It's not cool. So if I festered
over it, and the next dayI had to talk. I was like,
you know what, that's that's classless. You know, the whatever reporters
came in the locker room and Isaid, you know what, that's classless.
You know, how do you dothat? Just tell me the night

(33:27):
before I'm not gonna play. Hey, it's your call. You're the head
coach. Okay, I'm not gonnaplay. I'm not gonna be an active
but you show up and then yourstuff's not in your locker. Yeah.
I thought I was pretty clodless.And I told Bill that, and you
know, let's just say it wasa short conversation and we didn't see out
of eyes since then, and itwas it was the worst. We're written

(33:50):
on the wall that that was gonnabe my last show with the Cowboys.
Yeah, and that was. Thatwas five years I was a free agent.
And after that, I was like, you know what, it's been
great, great organization. I loveJerry Death. I mean, you talk
about an owner that loves his players, that's Jerry Jones. He gets a
lot of slack, but you cantell he loves his guys. Man,

(34:14):
And and I wish I could haveproduced a way better for Jerry because you
know, I love playing for JerryMan. He was different because all the
other owners when I was in Clevelandor here, they were off right.
Yeah, Jerry would come, dap, you up, come in the locker
room, Hey, have an easierhow you doing. I'm like, huh.

(34:36):
Jerry was sitting in your meeting roomswhile the coaches are coaching, and
I get why coaches feel a littlethreatened by him. Sure, because Jimmy
Johnson, I e or by everybodyelse. But as a player, man,
I mean, that was something Ihad never seen before. Yeah,
that's cool. Well the thing is, then you're used to that, then
you go to Cleveland as a freeagent and have a completely different EI.

(35:00):
Right. Well, football was good. It was a good experience as far
as the ownership goes. Yeah.I think our learner was the owner at
that time, and maybe I sawhim three times during the whole season.
One time was for the team gettogether, you know, started the season,
Yeah, And the second time wasmaybe at the Christmas party, and

(35:21):
the third time was exit meetings.Oh okay wow yeah yeah. And so
Cleveland you get reunited with Dave Campo, who is your head coach with the
Cowboys. He's your defensive coordinator rightat Cleveland. I did let me go
back because this is where my mindsetand all honesty it started switching from this

(35:42):
game is fun until this game isa business. Yes, okay, these
moments and everything that I learned fromthe the from Bill Parcells him one of
his guys, Well it was happeningto me now because Dave Campbell was my
he coordinator. He goes to Cleveland. My D line coach, Andre Patterson

(36:04):
was my D line coach with theCowboys. He Dave Campbell brings him to
Cleveland. Next thing you know,Andre Patterson, my D line coach,
wants me in Cleveland. So Isaid, oh, okay, this ain't
so bad anymore. Wanting your guyfavorite. Yeah. So you know,
when you're the wanted boy, it'sdifferent than the unwanted. Yeah. Yeah.

(36:27):
But that's when the business side comingand me starting to finally realize that,
Okay, this is a network.Yes, if you're someone's guy,
you can play a long time inthis league because they trust you, they
know how you work, they knowwhat your goods and bads are, So
it makes sense. Stop taking stuffso personal and after that year in Cleveland.

(36:49):
I didn't. I didn't take itpersonal. And I understood where Bill
was coming from because I wasn't hisguy. Okay, don't take it personal.
He wants his guys in and Irealized that, and it's okay.
That's why I respect them. ButI respect them after the fat learn.
Yeah. Absolutely, And you're young. I mean, gosh, Iveneezer at

(37:10):
that time, you know, you'rein your late twenties. And I mean,
if we all can look back atwhat we were like in our twenties
and go, oh my god.I thought I knew everything and I didn't
know anything. I didn't know anything. I didn't know much. I knew
a lot, but I knew nothing. Yeah, if that's safe to say,
absolutely, yeah, I understand that. And Cleveland it was great,
but Butch Davis was our head coach. I still remember it to this day.

(37:32):
I remember how cold was now youget that lake effect going, oh
man, that was so cold.I think the dumbest thing I did was
we were playing San Diego in December. They came into Cleveland Stadium and we're
like, oh man, we're aboutto blow them out. They're coming from
San Diego, California. And thisis when I was still young and tough.
I think it was a negative thirteenwinch ol factor. So I come

(37:54):
out with no leg warmers on,no arms sleeves. I mind you,
I'm still young, I'm and stupid. So I learned my lesson and San
Diego came in there and whooped allbutts. I mean it was like thirty
to fifteen, and we're just like, how the heck does this happen?
California boys coming into Cleveland this coldand doing what they did. But they

(38:17):
did that was when they had PhilipRivers, Gates and all those. They
had a great team nucleas. AndI tell you I love Cleveland. I
mean that fan base, Oh mygoodness. They're a hardcore. They are
hardcore. They love you to death, man, and if you're opposing team,
they hate you to death. Butthey have some really loyal fans.

(38:37):
And I enjoyed my time there.Yeah, it really did. And your
second year, Romeo Crenell comes inand changes over to a three four right,
hey, going back to the BillParceales days. You're not a guy,
Butch Davis, Dave Campo, AndrePatterson four to three. We want
you coming here to Cleveland had eightsacks my first year there. I thought

(38:58):
things were good, but Davids getsfired. The next year, Roma Cronell
comes in, a three four guy, a guy that worked under Bill Parcells
or Belichick. Yeah, the Belichickwhole, that's right. Yeah. So
Romeo calls me into his office.Hey, we're thinking about trading you.

(39:19):
It's like, okay, nice tomeet you. It was it was great.
It was no hard feelings. Itwas no are you class lists s
ob, none of that. It'slike, Okay, this is the business
of this, this is how businessis, right. I'm not your guy.
Yeah, Hey, there we go, and you get traded to Denver.
I get traded to Denver. AndrePatterson calls me, say, because

(39:44):
he had come to Denver, Oh, because Romeo came. He brings his
staff over, right, So thatwhole coaching staff was out. Cold.
Coaching staff was out. Andre Patterson, my first D line coach with the
Cowboys, my coach with a Dline coach with the Cleveland Brown Ounce took
a job. Him and Jacob Berniebecame the D line coaches here in Denver.

(40:05):
Oh. That's why we became thebrowncos and brought all those Browns in.
Yeah, that was after the fact, though, But I got traded
for Reuben Draws first and whatever.Three weeks later. A couple of weeks
later, all these other guys,my teammates, came Canard Lang, Gerard
Warren, Michael Myers, Courtney Brown, Courney Brown. Like, wow,
it's like I never left Cleveland.Oh man. The weather, well,

(40:30):
let me tell you this. Sometimeswhen I came to it was in May.
I came to sign my papers anddoue the physical. First, you
guys had one of those wet snowsnow, and I'm like, I looked
at my wife, I'm like,oh my lord, what have we gotten
into. We thought we were leavinga cold place. Well we're in the
same damn place. It snows inMay, and I'm like, oh,

(40:53):
what the heck are we doing.We thought we was leaving Cleveland. Cleveland
followed us. But the next dayit was forty five sunny, and it
all started melting away. And that'swhen Denver slowly started growing on us.
The weather and all that, becauseCleveland left. Hey, once October hits,
it's gloomy, it's gray, it'scold till April. And where we

(41:17):
lived in Cleveland, we lived inNorth Woralton. The first thing, the
best thing I realized about Cleveland isthat in the winter time, our community
was a ghost town because all ourneighbors were snowbirds. They were gone in
Arizona, they were gone to Florida. And it's like we had the whole
community to ourselves, block parties,to ourselves. Nobody was there. Funny,

(41:39):
it was like, wow, whereis everybody going? You know,
with time you realized where everybody wasgoing to estave the cold exactly. Yeah,
what was your time in Denver?Like, Oh, Denver was phenomenal?
Mind you, Denver was the firsttime in my career that I won.
Oh my first Dallas huh, myrookie year in dollars. We made

(42:01):
the playoffs at eight and eight.It took three teams losing in Week sixteen
for us to get in. Oneof the crazy mathematical possibilities there we go.
So I wouldn't call it eight andeight a winning season, but you
know, we went to the playoff. Gets you in hey, I believe

(42:22):
if I'm right, that's where weare. We were, And subsequent to
that, obviously in Carolina we won, So that wasn't my first time winning
that was my first time Denver winningin the professional league in the coast.
So four years. The next fouryears in Dallas weren't good. We were
always losing, never made a playoffagain. Cleveland, I think we were

(42:44):
five and whatever, five and eleven, whatever it is, five and twelve.
But when I got to Denver,it was just a total different feeling.
I mean, mind you getting here, it was a veteran squad.
Trevor Price, Wilson, Champ Bailey, I mean these were pros, Prosy,

(43:05):
Jake Plumber, Tom Nalan, MattLefsis, Ben Hamilton, George Foster.
I mean, these guys were like, oh you named some classics,
my goodness, you know. Andeverywhere else I went you would have good
guys call guys, but it wasn'tas many as I saw here in Denver,
where guys were pretty accomplished and stillplaying well. Rod Smith all those

(43:30):
guys, and we get here.Here's two thousand and six when you came
here, right, two two thousandand five, okay, And Jake Plumber,
yeah, yeah, that's when yougot the trade, yep. And
it was great, man, justto be around that atmosphere where mind job
was getting older too, where man, these guys they're trying to win now,

(43:51):
you know what I mean. There'sno rebuilding, there's no none of
that. Then we got defensive helpfrom the other Bronco brown Coles that came
in, and we were a solid, solid staff, solid solid staff.
Great room to be in. Youhad it in two thousand and six.
You had seven sacks, seventy eighttackles, two passes defensed, and one
force fumble. Now, good year, seventy eight tackles. D Liman don't

(44:14):
get seventy eight tackles, No theydon't. I mean the limen are like
maybe twenty eight to right, that'sa lot forty max maybe, Yeah,
yeah, I know, a greatyear. What was I thinking? Man,
I should have just been a passrusher. I should have I should
have I should have stopped being ateam player and just you know what,
I just want to get sacks.Let me get eighteen sacks and thirty tackles.

(44:37):
That's what they do now, that'syeah, right, Okay. Then
in two thousand and seven, injuryhits again, and that's when you tear
your achilles, oh man. Andthat and we've seen that so much this
last year, so many achilles injurieswith big name players, and I don't
feel like it happened as much backwhen you played as it's happening now.
And I don't know why that is, but it's such a more now devastating.

(45:00):
Yeah, it didn't happen when Itore minds. It wasn't happening.
Nobody was tearing it was. Itwas more and so like, oh lord,
am I really gonna come back fromthis? You know what I mean?
I know, Uh, the bestway I can compare it is back
in the day when you used totear your ACL it was a career ender.
Now you just spray some wind dexon it and six months later you're

(45:22):
back to running and nothing was missed. Right, So I'm guessing that's where
the trend is going with achilles rightnow. But it's crazy to see how
many guys are tearing achilles, youknow, and it's a full year.
I mean, I know there wasthe talk last year about Aaron Rodgers come
back, and there's no way he'sgonna come back and play. Come on,
shush up. Why he would evenstart that mess? I think I
think Aaron likes just, oh,he likes starting messes in general. You

(45:45):
don't think Aaron is a reserve,quiet hermiticrat. Is that what you're saying.
It's the opposite of I'm like,come on, man, you can't
come back from a torn achilles andthat short of a time span. I
don't know if he was trying tolike galvanize some raw raw stuff to get
the jets going. I believe that'swhat he was trying to do. Yeah,

(46:07):
way, No, it's such adevastating injury. And then again,
where do you find yourself in thetraining room where there are people that were
there that you bonded with when youwere going through that rehab it was But
you know what, as a player, man, the worst place you can
be is a playing room. BecauseI don't care who tells it. You
feel like you're not part of theteam. You can be told that you

(46:30):
are. You can sit in everyteam meeting, every position meeting, when
your guys are out there practicing andyou're sitting in the training room getting ice
and stem and ultrasounds, and you'reaway from what really matters, and that's
the guys. Even when practice isover and you're sitting in the locker room

(46:50):
and they're telling some goofy stories aboutwent on the field you have heartily laughed
because you weren't there to experience ityourself. So it's the worst place to
be is a training room. Noone obviously wants to get hurt, and
you're going to get hurt. It'sjust the nature of the game. But
to say that you feel like you'restill part of the team, that's a
lie. Anybody tells you that,that's a lie. And nobody's ever told

(47:12):
me that. They always say that, they always say it is. It's
literally the worst. It's the hardestplace to be. It is so hard.
It is so hard. But youknow what, tearing down Achilles and
coming back from it, I hadgreat pride. I had a great staff
in the Broncos training room with Greekand all those guys helping me. I
mean, you did come back.I did come back forty nine tackles that

(47:35):
year. I did come back.I wasn't the same. I wasn't the
same. You can feel that Ididn't have the initial burst, but you
learn to work with it. FirstOff, you're getting older, yeah,
all right, you're getting slower andthey're younger, bigger, faster guys coming
in. Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowdercoming to take your job, right,

(47:57):
So what are you gonna do?Yeah, hey, you just do the
best you can and suck it up. Keep those young boys at Bay.
But I wasn't myself. I wasnever I never had the same pop getting
off the ball. But I wasserviceable. And was that more Ebenezer of
the injury or of your head thinking, eh, what if it happens again?
No, it was more of theinjury, okay, because in my

(48:19):
mind I was fully cleared. I'mlike, okay, I'm running the training
staff. They've done a great job. They've been more than patient to make
sure I was fully recovered before Idid any football activities, So they weren't
rushing me to get back out there, because, mind you, I had
a full season. I told myachilles in a preseason game at Dallas.
Oh that's right. It was atDallas, dudgess of all the places,

(48:42):
right, Oh, I know right. I'm like, why couldn't it be
in Green Bay? Why I gottabe where I started my career. Because
they're saying, all, there hegoes again. Remember I told you,
yeah exactly. So it was thepreseason, so I had a full year
to be right. I didn't doit in week eight or ten where you're
shouldn't get back for the start ofthe season. You know what I mean.
You had that full year. That'sgood. That's good. So then

(49:05):
in two thousand and nine you havea good season and no eight when you
come back. Nine is the wahwah wah. Josh McDaniels comes in again,
a three to four. You wantto hear it? To tell this
story again, I've never heard itthat story. Check parcels Romeo Cornell.
They come from the same tree.Yes, they start with that one big

(49:29):
tree named Bill. There's another Billin there too, oh my goodness.
And there's there as well. Thewriting was on the wall. I never
personally spoke to McDaniels. Because theseason was over and I was a free
agent. I had a chance togo to the Raiders. I flew to

(49:50):
Oakland, met with their staff.Was going to sign with Oakland for one
or two years. I don't rememberwhat the deal was. But the only
reason I didn't signed was because theywanted me to make an exception because if
I hurt any disk, that ifI should hurt my disk again, they
wouldn't be hell liable. I calledmy wife on the phone. She's like,

(50:13):
what that hell you say. Youmean you're gonna go out there risk
your body again, but if youhurt your back again, they're not gonna
cover you. She's like, comeon back home. This is this is
it? Yeah, no, thisis it because yeah, I could have
gone there and played one more seasonbecause at the time, maybe it still
is now because Oakland was where youwent to die as a player. Oh

(50:36):
yeah, right, yeah, Imean absolutely. In the locker room,
we all talked about it. Hey, when I get to year ten,
eleven, twelve, let me goto Oakland. It's still two more years
because I know they will let medo that, David, They'll pay us.
You'll just stumbach it up and stilltwo more years, you'll be good,
because that's what the Raiders are knownfor. But I called my wife.

(50:57):
She's like, you know what yourgoal with to always get ten years?
Okay, you've achieved your goal.Yeah, what if you go out
there and something seriously injured yourself?Yeah, I mean, just take what
you've gotten, you've been blessed,walk out, walk away from the game,
and come back home. And reluctantlyI agree with her. Yeah,
I still remind her to this daythough I could have been in Oakland got

(51:21):
eleven years. That one year couldhave been five more years of living expenses.
Mind you, I know you wereworking out because I did a story
on you when I was at nineNews. We went to Red Rocks,
I mean, did that story withLauren, and I mean you were running
those I was like, oh mygosh, ebaneese are sweating and yeah,
this is mean still training to stayin shape for that call, you know

(51:45):
what I mean. And man,man, I hope you got some good
footage. Oh we did it.I was hurting. We put that in
for an award. It was soit was a really really good story.
I mean it was. It wasawesome, great video out there. You
gave me some motivation because any otherday at Red Rocks with Lauren, I
don't know, I might give youthirty minutes Max when the camera's a oh

(52:06):
yeah, I'm gonna full blown.We going all fifty minutes, ten minutes
warm up, fifty minutes of workingout, let's go, and now I'm
cramping, cramping on the way backhome, trying to look good for you.
Well you did. It was agreat story. I appreciate that but
but you do you retire then afterthat, so you don't go to Oakland,
and then you're done. I'm done. It was a fast ten years.

(52:31):
I mean it felt like a blinkof an eye. I bet it
did. And you never realize itwhen you're younger, when you're still puppy
faced and wet behind the ears.At twenty two as a rookie, that
man, this really goes by fast, and you really cherish those days.
I really cherished my time here inDenver because, like I said, this

(52:52):
was the first time as a prothat I won, and we were so
close to getting that ring, andI was on the tailor my career.
But I it was so rewarding tojust win. I didn't get a super
Bowl. Pittsburgh came in here andthey beat us at home to go to
the super Bowl. And honest story, wink wink, we all got together

(53:14):
before the game and we said,you know what, who the hell wants
to go to Detroit for a SuperBowl? If the Super Bowl was in
San Diego, Orlando, Miami,we would have won that Pittsburgh game.
I'm telling you right now, pleasedon't tell nobody know I won't. This
was who the hell wants to goto Detroit for a Super Bowl. So
we said, you know what,hey, man Drew and bad as he's

(53:34):
from Detroit, let them get thisone man so we can set them off
good because there's no bonuses involved ingoing to the postseason. Would you want
to have a Super Bowl? Yeah? Yeah, that's a good story,
right, Yeah, that's a greatstory. I wish it was true,
but it wasn't. Untrue. Well, now it's been fifteen years since you
retired. What have you done.You've got your family, You've stayed here.

(53:57):
I got a chance to see you. You were the honorary captain at
a game this year, which wasgreat. So getting back involved as far
as an alumni goes. Yeah,it's been great. It's been wow,
fifteen years. I never really thoughtof it's been got long. Yeah,
who, it's been great. Obviouslywe stayed in the Denver area. Yeah,
Denver has been great to us.It's grown on us immensely, not

(54:20):
only because of the weather, notonly because of the people, but just
staying around the guys. Yeah,that played well. So many that are
here still, So many that arehere still, in which I was shocked
by because usually when most people retire, they go back to their respective homes,
whether it's California, Florida, Texas. But Colorado's a great place it

(54:42):
is. And our kids were gettingolder, especially my oldest who's twenty seven,
and I just remember that, Hey, why would we move back to
Texas because we still had our homein Texas. Every off season we would
go back to Sousomgore, Okay,and stayed there for the off season,
train whatever, then come back andwe decided that, you know what,

(55:02):
no, we're gonna stay here afull year because she was getting older,
she was making friends, and shewas tired of moving. Mind you,
she was in Dallas. She wentto Cleveland for a season. Now when
Denver enough's enough. This is thisis where we're gonna lay and focused on
her. And that's why we stayedafter I retired instead of moving back to

(55:22):
Texas. That's great. And howmany kids total we have four? For
our oldest is Natalia, she's twentyseven. We have a nineteen year old,
Ezra. Ezra is currently a linebackerUniversity of Northern Colorado right now.
Nice and he went all my kidswent to Regis High School and I have
a tenth grade Regis right now,Isaiah. He's playing football. Mind you,

(55:45):
they waited till they could could,but he's doing well. Then I
have my baby. She's eleven.She's Olivia, and I got to meet
her at the game. She's adorable, Yeah she is. Everybody says that,
Oh she's so sweet. Yeah,everybody. That was a cold game.
That was eve and my eyes werewatering so bad because it was so
cold. And she came up tome while you were out doing the coin

(56:05):
toss and she said, are youokay? Are you crying? And I
was like no, no, Isaid, my eyes are watering because it's
so cold. But she was soconcerned about me, and I'm like,
oh my gosh, what a doll. Yeah, she's a mother. Hen,
she's a mother. Hen so sweet. I mean most kids. Sometimes
I take her with me to gowork out when I swim or whatever,
and I take her to Lifetime Fitness. They have a great kids area where

(56:28):
they can watch them for two anda half hours. I'm like, huh,
that with mine too. Hey,I ain't even gonna work out,
you can just have my kids.I'm like two and a half Okay.
This is a good membership. Ilove this place. Okay. So when
she goes in there, most kidswhen she was younger, even now,

(56:49):
they want to play around, basketball, bounce house. She's always where the
infants are, helping with the littlebabies. So she's a she's like a
mother. Yeah. So that's justher spear and that's what she likes to
do. And I'm glad she's justlike her mom. Her mom was the
same way. That's great, good, good. So what's been keeping me
busy? Now? You know what? I achieved my goal. I got

(57:10):
my ten years in and that wasalways my goal. So after I retired,
it is my wife turn. Wealways had an agreement that she would
stay at home ar the kids,make sure everything was good while I played.
So after I retired, her nameis Karen, it's time for me
to pay forward and pay it backto her. So she's big on philanthropy.

(57:31):
She's doing a lot of stuff inthe hometown she grew up in Boli,
Oklahoma, trying to revitalize the communityand putting on a lot of charitable
concerts, rodeos, everything, justtrying to bring the community back. So
within that time frame from when I'veretired till now, I'm in a supportive
role in trying to assist more athome while she does what she wants to

(57:54):
do her dream. Right, Sowe just fliped. No, it is
cool, cool, it is cool. And I tell you what, I
got a whole new appreciation for stayat home moms. I ain't gonna lie,
Susie. Man, these kids aresome bad kids. I don't even
drink, but I feel like Ineed a drink every night when I was
watching them, especially when they wereyounger, like wool and when you do

(58:17):
the carpool lane and things like that. Oh my goodness, I swear I'm
like just a dedicated uber driver.I'm ripping. Do you talk to Reuben
Drones very often? Because Run justwent through all this as well, and
he was stay at home dad andthen his wife said she was going to
take it back over and he's like, no, no, no, no,
no, I'm friends with all themoms. You can't. I got
this now. You can't come backinto my right, my world. You

(58:38):
know what. That's what my wifesaid. The first the first five six
months me being at home and metrying to run stuff. My wife had
that conversation with me, like,you know what, this is what I
do you go find something else todo. You can't just you can't come
in and be with you, cometelling me how to run the house.

(59:00):
There you've been playing for ten years. Like, no, that's I got
this. She has last word.Oh my goodness, I'm like, okay,
yes, ma'am, whatever you say. Hey, sorry, But I
have a whole new appreciation for stayhome parents because it's not just moms.
Now what I find out a lotof dash, especially since COVID with remote

(59:21):
work and everything, now, alot of dads are stay home dad's and
there I have a whole new appreciationfor what mothers do and what they've done
because it's a lot of work.It is. The downside is I can't
cook. So when I'm stay homedad, we eating out. You get

(59:43):
Chick fil A. I got allthe apps on my phone. I got
crazy reward points. Where can weeat today? Oh man, they get
so mad at me because every birthdayI'm one one stop to stop. Hey,
I I'm everywhere. I'm everywhere everybirthday. You get those free meals

(01:00:04):
or free drinks. Yeah, ohman, I'm going to get the seven
eleven for free slurpees on seven elevenOn July eleventh, you got to do
that. I don't, but nowyou know I'm there. The kids love
that I'm there. Now. OhEvaneezer, this has been great. I
have one last question for you,and I ask all my guests this.
As you look back on your careerand you think about the ups and the

(01:00:24):
downs and when you've gone to differentplaces, what do you tell people or
how do you counsel your your ownkids about when they go through difficult times
in life and how to get through. And you seem to always have had
a great attitude on moving forward.The biggest advice I give my kids or
anybody planning, you got to enjoythe journey, because you know what I

(01:00:45):
wish I would have enjoyed a lotmore. It goes by so fast in
a blanket and eye. You neverwant to look back and tell yourself what
did I do this for? Yougotta enjoy the journey. The journey is
not always going to be smooth,it's not always going to be downhill.

(01:01:07):
But whatever comes forth on that road, take it with a grand in stal.
Learn from it the goods, thebad, the uglies. But you
gotta enjoy it because whether it's goodor bad, it's still going to help
you, propel you to where you'regoing to be or want to be.
Yeah, so enjoy it. Iwish I would have done that a lot

(01:01:29):
more. I was too hard onmyself. I was too hard on myself
being a first round pick for theDallas Cowboys because I put all this expectations
on me, on what I wasexpected to be. Yeah, then you
get hurt twice. Then you andthe dumps they don't want you anymore.
You leave. It's like, no, you're in the freaking NFL. They

(01:01:51):
are only twenty five hundred jobs inthe world and you're one of them.
Enjoy the process. You got healthykids, you got a great wife,
you got a roof over your head. Enjoy the process. It's easier said
than done because I'm human. You'rehuman. Sometimes we get in our ways
and we want to complain about this, complain about that. But I tell

(01:02:15):
my kids, enjoy the process,have fun because it's not gonna last forever.
No, it doesn't. It's football. It's not gonna last forever.
I tell my boys, I say, you know what, everything has some
expiration date, whether you're playing sportsor job or in life. We ain't
gonna be here forever. We allhave expiration dates, So why you're doing

(01:02:36):
whatever you're doing, do it tous fullest and have fun, keep it
simple. I love it, Ebanezer, this was phenomenal. Thank you for
taking the time to come in withyou. I thank you. I mean
you've been you've always been around.No, seriously, I'm like, I'm
no, no, no, no, no, I'm like it just it's

(01:02:57):
just remarkable, remarkable to see howlong you've been doing this, and you've
always been a pros pro. You'vealways been cordial, You've always been like
a smile on your face, youknow from what I'm talking about just with
me. I don't know how youout with everybody else. Oh no,
I feel that well, hopefully otherpeople feel that. People always greeted me
with a smile on your face.Hey, eb how you doing this?

(01:03:19):
And that? So I appreciate youfor being you and a person that you
are and always being a professional witha smile on your face. And it
seems as though you enjoy what you'redoing. I love it, and you're
joined the journey. So I enjoythe relationships. I enjoy getting to know
people. I love knowing people's storiesand so I love it when people will

(01:03:40):
sit down and tell me their stories, because I think everybody's is really important
and it's important to share and haveother people realize where we all come from.
True. Yeah, absolutely, allright, ev, thank you,
You're welcome. Thank you, ThanksEbenezer. New episodes of Cut, Traded,
Fired, Retired are released on Tuesdays. Please follow, download, rate,

(01:04:00):
and review this podcast wherever you listento podcasts, and you can keep
up on new releases by following onTwitter and Instagram at ctfur podcast and also
on the website ctfurpodcast dot com.Do you know someone who could use some
motivation, share an episode of thepodcast with them. I'm your host,
Susie Wargin. Thanks for listening,and until next time, please be careful,
be safe, and be kind.Take care