Mark Knudson

He’s the only person who played high school, college and professional baseball in the state of Colorado. After graduating from Northglenn High School, a suburb north of Denver, Mark Knudson went straight up I-25 to Colorado State University where he majored in journalism and pitched for a baseball program that was dissolved a decade after Mark left for the pros.

Mark was drafted by the Astros in 1982 and credits his college ball for giving him a fast track to the majors: he debuted in single A and just 3 years later, he made his MLB debut. In 1986, Mark was traded to the Brewers which stung, but he made the most of it and became their Opening Day starter in 1991. Unfortunately, the next day he came down with a virus and was never the same that year. He was sent to their AAA team (the Denver Zephyrs) where he helped win a championship and then was released when the Brewers weren’t going to bring him back to the show.

Mark kept a home in the Denver area while he was playing and in the early 90’s was “enlisted” to be a spokesperson to help bring Major League Baseball to Denver. In his final year in the pros, Mark played for that team and was the first Colorado born player to be on the Rockies roster.

The day after Mark retired, his wife had triplets and they would later add another daughter. In retirement, he’s worked in numerous mediums in journalism and continues to do so between writing, radio and podcasting. He’s also a high school baseball coach for Prospect Ridge Academy in Broomfield.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
George Bush Sr. Was throwing outthe first pitch that day, so Secret
Service was everywhere. So while whileI'm standing there on the phone in your
underwear and my underwear, the SecretService comes in with their dogs and they're
sniffing all the lockers. And thatdog would not leave me alone. That
dog wanted some of me. Whatam I going to do? I'm standing
there on the phone with Urban Joe. I'm trying to talk to them and
trying to tell them, hey,there's a police dogger sniffing' me. Oh

(00:20):
my god. So it was interesting. I can't believe you actually did an
interview with them before you were goingto a pitch opening day. Welcome to
Cut, Traded, Fired, Retired, and Conversation number seventy. Of course,
that number doesn't matter chronologically because youcan listen to these episodes in any
order you prefer. This podcast continuesto amaze me as I reconnect with longtime

(00:42):
acquaintances and also get to know othersbetter as they relate their stories about being
cut, traded, fired, andor retired. This is still the coolest
project. I'm your host, SusieWargen. I've known about this episode's guest
for a long time. After all, He's a Colorado native from a north
suburb of Denver like me, andhe played baseball at my alma mater,
Colorado State University when they still hada baseball team. Mark Knutson also played

(01:06):
twelve years of professional baseball, includingthe first season the Colorado Rockies were in
town, which makes him the onlyplayer in state history to have played at
the high school, college, andpro levels in Colorado. The day after
Mark retired from baseball, his wifehad triplets, and Mark wove his way
through retirement by working a number ofjobs in the media, something he still
does to this day along with beinga high school baseball coach. He's got

(01:30):
some great advice and thoughts for thosewith youngsters considering baseball, and also talks
about a couple of his biggest regrets. Ladies and gentlemen. Mark Knutson Cut
Traded, Fired, Retired podcast withSusie Wargin Mark Knutsen, how you doing.
I'm well, I'm trying to staywarmed. I know we are here

(01:51):
in one of the coldest days ofwinter twenty twenty four so far, but
this is so fun because I don'thave as many baseball players in and I
find the grind of baseball so fascinating. You were in for twelve years,
and we're going to kind of talkabout your upbringing. I mean, you
are Colorado through and through as muchas they get. And then what you're
doing now. You you've continued toreinvent yourself in retirement, which is a

(02:15):
lot of fun. So we'll startat the very beginning. You're a Norseman.
You grew up in North Glenn acrossthe street school. I'm a Broomfield
girl, so I'm from the northside as well. You guys were a
small town. We were in theBoulder exactly. Roomstick is what people called
it there. Yeah, so yougrew up in North Glenn. Obviously you're
into baseball, but what other sportsdid you have? And how did you

(02:36):
get into baseball? We played everythingback then, didn't we Just I mean
I was telling my wife yesterday,days like this, when the roads are
just We're got the hockey sticks out, we're playing street hockey, we're putting,
we're doing the whole Wayne's World thing, throwing up to let the cars
go by and then getting back outthere. And yeah, we played hockey.
So we played everything, you know, We did everything seasonal, and
I think, honestly, and I'vetalked to some baseball people about this,
that's why you didn't have as manyinjuries in baseball as you do now,

(03:00):
because guys weren't playing baseball around theywere doing other things, and you're being
more well rounded. And Joe Maddenis somebody I used to talk to a
lot when he was here, andhe was the first scout that ever called
me. Really he was a boldercollegian, but he used to say,
yeah, you guys did everything.You didn't play baseball. You runs,
so your arms were fresh, youdidn't have some arms. So yeah,
we played it all. We Youknow, it doesn't mean we were good
at all of it. But youknow, you're playing golf in your backyard
and I could actually hit a Ishould say this, but I could actually

(03:23):
hit a driver from my backyard intothe grounds at Northland High School, go
over over two streets, nice,I hit it low. We were in
trouble. Tried to pick your moments, but yeah, we did. We
played everything. When did baseball becomeyour thing? I think whatever becomes your
thing is what you're best at.Wasn't real big then, and growing up
I got bigger my senior year inhigh school. I wasn't very big.

(03:43):
I haven't started shrinking yet. Ilove basketball, but I wasn't good enough
to play it. You remember,but Northland was really the second biggest school
in the state. Back then,there was a time where Northland was ruling
the roots. Cherry Creek was numberone, Northland was number two in size.
There was no horizon, there wasjust Thornton, and so you had
to be good, really good tomake a team. And I wasn't really
good enough to make the basketball team. I wasn't good enough to play football.
I loved playing football, I lovedit. I just wasn't very good

(04:04):
at it. So baseball became thething. Because you're good at something,
you just keep going. Were yougood at pitching? Were you good at
hitting? Were you good at outfield? Did you have a specific position?
Well, I was a pitcher primarily, but we played everything because you know,
if you're one of the better players, you're going to find a place
for it. But we were goodenough by the time I was a senior
that I would DH when I wasn'tpitching. I actually had a teammate same
last name, spelled it differently pronouncethe same the same. Okay, Steve

(04:27):
would pitch, I would DH forhim, and vice versa, and so
on. The box score might readhome run Canots and win. They thought
it was great, but Steve didhalf the worst guys kicking by Yeah,
but Steve did half the work.No. We we were very good and
Northland was very good back in thosedays in all the sports. So you
played what you could play. Whathappened with the college front. You went
to Colorado State University when they hada baseball team, which was dissolved in

(04:48):
nineteen ninety two. You were therea couple of years before, ten years
before that. Yeah. Did youhave other schools that contacted you? Yeah,
I don't know if you know edwoy Tech. He's a balat Christian,
Yes, next or neighbor growing up, and taught me how to play
baseball, and he was tight inwith Western State. So the Western State
coach recruited me. But Western State, I mean, it's like today in

(05:08):
April, and I just didn't wantto go go somewhere where I was going
to get to play, and alsowanted to go somewhe where the journalism department
was good because I knew I wantedto go this direction. I'd gotten to
know guys like Dick Connor and peoplelike that, so I really wanted to
pursue the journalism stuff. And soit was either it came down to UNC
or CSU. Tom Petrov, thelegendary coach at UNC, great man lost
him a couple of years ago.Just an outstanding guy. He tried to

(05:30):
get me to come to UNC.I was close to going to UNC,
but the journalism department, Gary Ozelloin company sold me on CSU, and
that's why ended up at SEEING reallycan take credit for that. So Ozi,
for those that don't know, anincredible sports information director for CSU for
a very long time. What washe doing then? My first year,
my freshman year, Gary was theassistant Mike Mills. Gary was them two
guys. Okay. Gary would alwaystell me, you know, I don't

(05:51):
think you can make the big leader. You gotta have three things going for
you to make the big leagues.You got to look good in a uniform.
He said, you got to chewtobacco. I didn't chowot tobacco.
And you gotta have a name easyto pronounce. You're kind of O for
three. You're probably not going toget and speaking of that, how many
people mispronounce your name well of thecountry. But that's fine. But Gary
became the sad when I was asophomore, and so he saw me as
a way to Hey, I don'thave to send a student assistant on a

(06:13):
road baseball road trip. I gothim. So if I'm not pitching,
I'm doing the student assistant stuff onthe road trips. Were you really?
You were double duty? Oh mygoodness, for Grey for three years.
And actually when I came back tofinish my last semester at CSU, after
I'd been with the Astros for ayear, I went back to work for
Gary one more semester. Oh mygosh. Now, how did you get
to know like Dick Connor when youwere in high school? Was because they
were covering it. Yeah, Iremember Jim Benton came out and did a

(06:33):
story on a legendary high school writerfor the Rocky Right the Mountain News at
the time. And so you gotaround those guys and you tell them you
have an interest in this field,and they're going to take more of an
interest in you. And I spentsome time with Dick Connor. He came
to speak at a journalism class onthe French shows Journalism and classes I took
at CSU and Dick said to me, I feel guilty sometimes for getting paid

(06:56):
to do what I do. AndI said, sign me up. I'm
in, Send me to the Master'sme to Wimbledon. I'm in. I
know. That's how I feel aboutdoing Broncos sidelines. And I'm like,
I get paid to stand here.I get to listen to Dave in my
ears, so I know all thedetails about everything that I can't see because
they're right in front of me andthey pay me to do this. It's
crazy, except not today, exceptnot today. We don't want to be
in Buffalo today. No, allright, So you end up going to

(07:18):
Colorado State University. Tell me aboutyour time there, and is it bittersweet
that they have a club team that'sdone very well, well, very very
well, but they don't have thebaseball team anymore. That's frustrating for a
lot of us. When it firsthappened, Corey Johnson was the ad when
they first dropped it, and youknow, Corey wasn't very well respected,
especially after he left, and kindof burned some bridges when he left.

(07:39):
But we were all fun on growguys when we were there, and he
was the man right, and thenCorey Johnson comes in, and I think
old James might have been in between, but Corey was. You made pledges
and you didn't follow through. Thatwas nonsense. I understand why they dropped
baseball, and it was frustrating whenit happened. In fact, they started
to do it while I was asenior. They cut our budget in half
midway through the season and we hadto pay for our own used to stay

(08:00):
on the last two road trips.Really, so, well, we're going
to finish the season. We hada good team by you beat us out
for the championship, but we hada good team, So no, I
mean I enjoyed every minute of it. I enjoyed every minute of being at
Colorado State. It was It wasa great place to go to school.
It was just big enough to bea big college and I'm big time football
and yet small enough that you kneweverybody. And I had nothing but good
things to say about my time thereand training I got in sports information set

(08:24):
me up perfectly. My first assignmentat CSU was a freshman was to cover
a swim meet men and women stillhad men swimming then, And so I
write it in inverted pyramid newspaper stylethat I'd learned to write through my high
school days. And when I getit back from Mike Mills's call these red
lines, and it was all aboutaccentuate the positive and the negative only gets
two lines at the bottoms of themen lost in nets that the women did
great, the men did terrible.So so I learned about public relations writing,

(08:46):
how it was different from news.It was very different. It was
a great, great experience. That'sawesome. Did you ever consider going to
Boulder? Was that an option foryou? My family's all from Nebraska,
Okay, so no, No,it was a hard no. And here's
the funny thing saying. In nineteeneighty I finished my sophtware and I beat
CU. They still the team.Their quarterback was Bill Solomon, who was
also on their baseball team. Struckhim out three times. I'm feeling my

(09:07):
big red at that point, right. And then that summer I'm playing for
a summer team based out of Greeley. We're playing against the Boulder Collegiates,
who are outstanding. Right. JoeCarter, Tony Gwynn, Spike going.
I mean that team was absolutely low. Wow. Larry Schultz had replaced her
Brown as a baseball coach at CuO, and Larry Schultz was in the stands
and he was talking to my parentsand some other parents about if CS she
dropped baseball him CS she was goingto drop baseball? Would your son want

(09:28):
to come to Boulder? And mydad started laughing, So I don't think
you could make that happen. Andthen they dropped Larry's program just like that
a few months later. See whodropped in nineteen eighty So I didn't play
against my junior and senior year,just my freshman and sophomore. Wow.
So yeah, Larry got the rugpulled out from under without any idea that
Chuck Fairbanks was coming in to takeall the money for football and that was
going to be that. So itwas shocking for a lot of us.
And I think it's done damage tobaseball in this state period because I think

(09:54):
it made it easier for CSU todrop baseball. And I understand the economics
involved the title line stuff, Iget it. But UNC, which was
the best of the baseball lot backthen. Un C went to the College
World Series in nineteen seventy four.In fact, most people don't know that
only I think twelve schools in Americahave been the more college World Series in
UNC, but the last that lasttime for UNC was nineteen sventy four under
Tom Petrov. They were the best. But I think even they suffered from

(10:16):
ce you not having baseball anymore,because now everybody started looking out of state.
We've had some great baseball players thatwent out of state because they just
don't deem this a baseball place.So yeah, I think see you dropped
it hurt CSU obviously. I meanthan Wyoming came around on the heels of
CSU a couple of years later.So interesting, it's been disappointed. Just
boom boom. But that was disappointing. Yeah, all right, So you
go through your time at CSU,you get drafted by the Astros before you're

(10:37):
done with school, So how doesall of that carry out? Because you
did graduate, kudos to you.I didn't get drafted as a junior.
I had kind of an up anddown junior year. I was all right,
is not good. But the lategreat Bus Campbell, who you may
you've probably heard his name was,He was our pitching grouer around here,
the scout, the drafted Roy Holliday, the Boulder Collegian's pitching coach. For
all those years, Bus was withoutpeer and I missed him to this day.

(10:58):
He came and started working with mebefore my senior year and kind of
turned things around. And then Iwent from not being drafted as a junior
to be in a third round pickas a senior. Wow, what did
he do different with you? It'sa mechanic, it's a lot of it's
mechanical, or you know the kidsI work with now, I talk about
a golf swing being the same everytime, and that's what a pitching delivery
has to be. And Bus justhad a way. He just had a
knack. I don't really know howto explain it. He was He turned

(11:18):
down many offers to be a bigleague, minor league pitching coach. He
wanted to stay here, teach here, coach here. That's impressive. That's
why he's one of the very fewpeople who've never been a head coach to
be in the Colorad Sports Hall ofFame. And he every bit deserves that.
We pushed hard for that to happen. So Bus turned me around.
I got drafted in the third round, but I hadn't finished school. I
changed concentrations from news editorial, whichI don't know if you went through news

(11:39):
editorial up there, I was aspeech calm so different, and that was
separate from journalism and concentrations. IfI was going to be a news editorial,
I graduate, I had to gofind a beat and spend all spring
sleeping in the city hall offices waitingfor a and I just couldn't commit that
time. So I changed concentrations,which caused me to need more PR and
marketing classes, which turned out tobe a good thing for me. I

(12:00):
need an extra semester, so Iwent back, I got drafted. I
played a year of minor league ball. I went back and finished in eighty
three. You didn't know anybody atcampus. When I got back, it
felt like I was on a formplanet. Oh I bet you I get
back there in your fifteen You've gonefifteen months. You feel like you've been
gone forever. Yeah, well,all the people that you're usually around are
not there anymore, all right,So let's get into your baseball career.
You get drafted by the Astros.Like you said in eighty two, your

(12:20):
debut. Your major league debut isthree years later in nineteen eighty five.
Well, what was that like?First of all, when you play college
ball, and I was any ofthese kids, and there's a lot of
them out here, high school kidsthat have big dreams, and they should,
but the fastest path to the bigleagues is through college. Walker Martin
is a three A kid played eatonlast year I coach in three. I
didn't have to play him, thankfully. The guy hit twenty home runs in
one hundred at bats, which isjust ridiculous. He's a great player,

(12:41):
and he was drafted by the Giants. But Walker's he's behind the eight ball
now because he was a football playeralso, great athlete, great player,
but from a learning curve standpoint,he's probably looking at six years maybe seven
in the minor leagues, and he'sgot a ton of guys ahead of him
who've taken a ton more reps thanhe has, ground balls, batting practice,
whatever. Anderson, who he's acoach at UNC now, but he

(13:01):
was a coach in Thebrasco when theywent to the College World Series. Mike's
been around. He said it right, he said, every year you've been
in college with at least two yearsor maybe more in the minor leagues because
of the well just growing up,just maturing, you know, I mean,
and a high school kid, youknow, a million dollars in better
hope, he's taking his parents withhim wherever he's being. Life in the
low miners is not a lot offun. It's tough, and it don't

(13:22):
pay well, so you're eating intothat bonus. I'm very very glad.
I wasn't good enough to be draftedout of high school, not even close.
But by the time I'd gone throughfour years at CSU, I was
older than most kids that were beingdrafted, because most are drafted by after
the junior year. So I wentstraight to Abel High eight. The reason
I was able to make it inthree years is because I skipped so many
minor league levels having played college balland in the WHACK at the time,
you know, San die State,Hawaii, there was some very good BYU

(13:43):
were very good. Yeah, Iplayed against in college, played against Corey
Snyder and Wally Joyner and Tony Gwynnand all those guys in the WHACK.
So it was a good league andthat allowed me to skip three levels.
So when I went to a ball. I was certainly in over my head.
But back then they weren't rushing peopleup too fast. They're making you
conquer the level you're at before youadvance. And I did that on a

(14:03):
half season by half season basis andfinally got to the big leagues. And
so it worked just about perfect.Yeah, I think they had Astro's handling
me just right. So your bigleague debut was like, what, how
did it happen? How did youfind out that you were getting a call
up? And the miners Back then, again, this is pre analytics,
right, there's no computer programs.You're sitting there keeping a paper chart.
So I see, after you pitch, you're sitting in the stands and you're
keeping a chart. And I'm sittingin the stands. And Bob Kennedy was

(14:24):
one of our senior vice president typesfor the organization. He comes down to
assists next to me late in thegame and he says, ask me if
I'm married. No, I'm notmarried. He says, well, good,
then you can pack up and getout of here. In the morning.
You're going to Houston. My managerwas kind of upset that he didn't
get Managers love to be the oneto tell you that. Y. Yes,
managers kind of upset with them fortelling me that, But again,
I'm on the plane the next day. Now, I've been in spring training
with these guys, right, I'dspent time with Phil Garner and Nolan Ryan

(14:46):
and all the great players we hadin the Astros system at the time,
and they were really good mentors.But it's different when you get to the
big leagues because now it's everything counts. No more spring training throwaway games.
Everything counts. And I'd done wellin spring training, but not not enough
to make the team obviously, sowhen I get called up, I'll be
honest. And during that flight,I was petrified during the flight from just

(15:07):
petrified. But when I got thereand then I was got around the players,
everything relaxed again. So everything wasgood. But the night before my
major league debut, we played nineteeninnings against the Mets, and so the
bullpen was pretty much spent, andmy manager told me, so you're out
there, You're just going out there. You're out there, and I remember
I got beat. I don't rememberwhat the final score was by the Phillies,

(15:28):
but I gave up seven runs andseven innings, like one at a
time, no big innings, justone at a time, or you had
to go seven because the bullpen wasdepleted. And I got I got to
the pictures, obviously, batted Dan. I walked up home plate for my
first at bat. And this iswhen the Astros were in the National League
and in the Astro Dome. Yeah, so walk up from my first at
bat and we're behind three nothing orwhatever it is. The place is cascading

(15:50):
with booze and I'm I look aroundand the late bow Diaz was catching the
Phillies and looked up and he said, Hey, hang in there, kid,
what are you gonna do? Whatare you gonna do? I probably,
I'm sure I struck out day.Mike Schmidt was going through a little
spell with Philadelphia fans. As weall know her can be a little rough.
Even the great Mike Schmidt is hearingit from the Philly fans about that

(16:11):
time. For some reason, maybehe's in a slump or something, but
I remember there's pictures of him wearinga black, curly haired wig out on
the field as a disguise, asa mock disguise the Phillies. You're coming
out to hit after work, comingout the field. I'm walking off the
field and he walks by me andlooks at me and he goes, hey,
kid, you want to borrow mywig? Okay, I mean,
I'm just a dumb kid. Idon't know anything. But it steals you,

(16:32):
right, It hardens you because yourealize, hey, this is what
I was able to learn through beingin journalism was they're boooning the performance,
not booming the person. True.So if you don't take it personally,
it's too many athletes today take itpersonally when they get booed or get something
critical written about it, and it'shard not to take it personally. It
is hard, but yeah, yougot to separate the job performance from the
person. And ironically, the springbefore I had been writing a diary for
the Rocky Mount News because I've beendoing some streaming work with the Rocky Mount

(16:56):
News in the off season. Minorersdon't get paid a lot. You gotta
keep working. Jick Connor was theirnorm. Clark was at the at the
Rocky level do a diary of springtraining. This is great, it's fun,
but I didn't have any equipment,so I had to borrow it from
the Houston Chronicle. Guys. Sonow here are the Houston Chronicle guys after
my debut, having to write thetruth, nothing about the truth about me.
And I walk into the clubhouse andthey're standing there kind of looking at

(17:17):
me like, oh sheep. He'slike, you know, a' you mad
at us because we had to sayyou got beat up yesterday. No,
I'm not mad. It's true ithappened. Nobody's gonna be harder on me
than I am. So no,I wasn't. I wasn't upset with them
at all. And I think thatI don't think that was the norm.
I think most of the time,if a guy had a bad outing and
got ripped, he was not tookeen and hearing about it writing about the
next day. So yeah, thenjust don't read it. You know.
It's interesting. I talked to DennyNagel a few weeks ago and his podcast

(17:38):
is out, and he said,you know, his thing was, he
said, I wanted people to likeme, and it was so hard on
him when he came here and athey're paying he and Mike Campten a ton
of money and they're not performing andhe's getting booed, and he's like,
they had every reason to boomy becauseI was getting paid a bunch of money
and I wasn't performing. But he'slike, I just I wanted to be
liked so badly, and that wasso hard, and it is. It's

(18:00):
very difficult to separate performance from personsometimes. But you can only control what
you can control. Yeah, andyour performance and what you do is and
your behavior and your reaction to thosethings all that you can control. In
so, my teammates aren't going totheir teammates aren't jumping off your bandwagon when
things go bad, because everybody.Baseball is an extremely humbling game. Even
for the greats him sixty two games, you can't be excellent every single day.

(18:21):
I saw Nolan Ryan get humbled,and that's saying something. And when
that can happen to him, itcan happen to anybody. You've just got
to learn how to handle it properly. And if you do, if you
categorize it and say, Okay,that was a bad performance, I'm moving
on to the next one. Ifthey boo, they boo. I can't
control what they do, but I'lltry to do better next time. Yeah,
in nineteen ninety, you have yourcareer best ten wins that year,
Then the next year in opening dayof ninety one. You get the start,

(18:44):
get the win, and then youcome down with a crazy violence.
In spring training that year, TeddyHigerett was our best pitcher, our ace
pitcher, and one Niavis was anothergreat He threw no hitter for the Brewers
a couple years before that. Hewas a great pitcher. They both got
hurt. I was going into theseasons at number three and suddenly I'm elevated
on the one and we we Wehad a meeting in spring trading with Don
Fear, the players Union rep.They go around they talk to every team.
So we have the meeting and afterwardswe're standing around in Don's talking.

(19:07):
He says, oho, you guysopen up with and somebody says, we
all open up with the Rangers.Nolan Randy goes, oh, good luck
with that. I'm standing right nextto him. I'm in the starter.
It was good luck with that.I'm like, thanks for the conference.
So we get to your player rep, right, yeah. So we get
to Arlington and it was crazy obviouslyOpening day in the old stadium and I'm
in the locker room and the phonerings. I'm the only one in there.
Everyone else taking bating practice. It'sone hundred degrees really hot for early

(19:30):
April. So I'm standing in theclubhouse. Guy hands me the phone and
it's Don Martin from here, fromright here, Don Martin. I'm Don
Martin. He wasn't here yet.He was with Irvin Joe, Kay Big
or whatever it was at the time, and he says, Irvan Joe want
to put you on the radio.I said, I'm standing here in minder.
We're doing nothing, So okay,So I do an interview with Ervin
Joe before the game, before thegame when you're the starting pitcher. Oh

(19:52):
my gosh, Mark, I didn't. I'm a media guy. I'm a
journalist. I don't care. That'shilarious. George Bush Senior was throwing out
the first pitch that day, soSecret Service was everywhere. So while while
I'm standing there on the phone inmy underwear, the Secret Service comes in
with their dogs and they're sniffing allthe lockers. And that dog would not
leave me alone. That dog wantedsome of me. What am I gonna

(20:12):
do. I'm standing there on thephone with Irvan Joe. I'm trying to
talk to them and trying to tellthem, hey, there's a police dogger
sniffing me. It was interesting.I can't believe you actually did an interview
with them before you were going topitch opening day. I'm also not surprised
Don Martin called you an asto.Like most producers would not do that.
Don would have you know. Donhad no palms about it, no qualms

(20:33):
about it. I'd work get youon the show. I'd worked with them
at k Big in the off season. Nerve had started me working radio sales.
I know all those guys yet,so they're just calling up a buddy.
After that escapade got over, thenI got to go out and warm
up and they were unveiling a statueof Nolan Ryan before the game. No
one's on the mound and they're handingout American little American flags, and the
old bullpen at Arlington was I mean, the mound was inches from the stands

(20:56):
right right there. I'll never forgetthese people waving these American flags at me
while I'm warming up, like I'mIvondrago or something. I say, wait,
now, you know this, astime goes by, you become better
than you actually were. And Ididn't honestly pitch very well that day,
but Nina de Dolan. I thinkwe won five to four, but I
got through my five or six innings, whatever it was. The bullpen got

(21:17):
to win and I got to win. And suddenly you're the guy that beating
Nolan Ryan. Well, a lotof guys beating Nolan Ryan, and he
lost a lot of games in hiscareer, and I didn't have any hits
that day, so I don't wantto take in men's credit. It was
fun. It was great to bepart of that. But the next day
I came back to the ballpark andI went feeling very well. We had
an off day and I wasn't feelingvery well and I went out for practice.
I was getting lightheaded and the trainerbrought me in the training room and
said lay down. I passed outon the training table. They diagnosed me

(21:37):
with something called coliomegulovirus. I haveno idea what it is. So I
was out for almost a month withthat. Wow, and then I lost
fifteen pounds and I had to goback and regain myself. I didn't get
my footing until middle of the season. By that point, I was in
the bullpen, and I wasn't likingthat because I'd lost my spot in rotation
by technically by injury, which noone wants to lose. I mean,

(21:57):
I came into relief against the A'sand just had a great game. It
was a doubleheader, and whatever reasonthe Empires wanted to leave early, the
strikes on the size of a barndoor. Nobody could get. It was
a getaway double header day. Ohgeez. So this is the sacing.
So I think I struck out nineguys in four innings or something. It
was ridiculous. But I'm feeling goodnow and I want to be back in
the rotation, and I made thatknown, which is my one regregret in

(22:18):
baseball. Should have just cut mymouth shut. Should have done what the
team asked me to do. Iwould advise anybody else to feel the same
way. Things would have worked outwell in Milwaukee. But that was my
last gym Milwaukee because I asked tobe traded, they sent me down and
they at leased me at the end. I came down to Denver. We
won a championship here with the Zephyrsninety one, and I had my best
pitching that year was obviously with theZephyrs later part of the season when we
won the American Association and the InternationalLeague Championship. But stay where you're at.

(22:41):
You know, this transfer portal thingwas stay where you're at, work
through it and good things will happen. Yeah. Interesting you say that,
And I failed to mention that inAugust of eighty six you were traded to
the Brewers, so I didn't bringthat into the story there. That all
happened before. That was the firsttraining part about that was I went from
a first place team to a lastplace team and they kept me and I
was the fifth man in the rotation. When I was with the Astros that
year, we were three or fourgames ahead of the Giants in the Nationally
West of the time, but theywanted some experiencely traded myself and a guy

(23:04):
named Don August to the Brewers.Unto the picture for Danny Darwin. Danny
Darwin went off and won like tengames the rest of the year, but
didn't set foot on the field inthose playoffs with the Mets. You remember
those playoffs with with Dwight Gooden andNolan Ryan and Mike Scott, that epic
playoff series. I watched from homeand Dany Darwin watched from the bench.
He said, I could have donethat. I could have Saud on the

(23:25):
bench, but no, I wasIt was fun to watch my teammate celebrate,
but there's some heartbreak there when you'rewatching them celebrate. Mike's got through
a no hitter to clinch the divisionand the champagne's going and I'm watching them
from a frigid hotel in Milwaukee.But it turned out to be the best
for my career, no question,okay. And then to fast forward to
the end of your career then withMilwaukee. So what you said about the
transfer portal is interesting to me becausewe are seeing so many college age kids

(23:48):
now just go I mean everywhere,and there's there's not enough places open for
all the ones that are in theportals, so you're gonna get kids that
are completely left out in the cold. Tubby Smith, the basketball coach,
said it Besie, we're teaching kidshow to quit, and that's exactly what
we're doing. And it's got tobe frustrating for them to go into that
portal and never come out of it, really, So I like your advice
stay where you are, stick withyou know, if you if you work
your way through it, you persevereand you're going to get your opportunity right.

(24:11):
So in Milwaukee they designate you forassignment. They say, here to
Denver. Play with the Zephyrs atMile High and we had a great team
and we won the championship and everythingwas good. But then I'm a free
agent at the end of the season. Oh okay. I signed with the
Padres after that, and then you'rewith the Padres in ninety two. Came
to the Rockies in ninety three whenthey were an expansion team. Almost forced
my way into that situation. Tobe honest with you, I mean,

(24:33):
I turned out a lot of otheropportunities. It probably would have been better
for me, but I want tobe part of this. My wife and
I were at the groundbreaking at Coursefieldwhen Sam sipleasi, you will put the
shovel and where home plate is.In fact, my last year with Milwaukee,
or maybe it was, it wasa ninety season because a short All
Star break because we had had awork stoppage might have been a strike.
They all run together, so wehad a shortened All Star break. And

(24:56):
so I came home and Mayor Webbhad sent one of his guys to my
house to pay me up to goup and down the front range. I
came here to the well the studiosat KA were we're downtowntown at on Mike
Rosen show. I'm on on theseshows. I'm doing these things, campaigning
for us to vote yes for thestadium, vote yes for cours. I
spent three days going up and downthe front range saying vote for the campaign
trail. Then I flew out toChicago because we had one night in Chicago,

(25:18):
and then I turned around and flewthe next day to Oakland and we
played the World Championays and I beatDave Stewart on a Friday night in Oakland.
So it was a world win week. But no kidding, you feel
like you're part of it if youhelped, absolutely, so yeah, it
was. It was great. SoI did because Randy Smith, who was
executive with the Padres, was leavingthe Potters to come to Denver to join
the Rockies. And I'm like,you know, that's where I want to

(25:38):
be, Randy, I told him, and well, I don't know,
we'll see what happens. And thenI got an opportunity to sign as a
free agent with the Rockies minor leaguefree agent. I was at the expansion
Draft, and I'd doned Don Baylorfrom our days together in Milwaukee, and
he was like, yeah, let'slet's do it. Didn't make the team
out of spring training because of rostersituation back then. You know, you
had a forty man roster, butif you took somebody off that you lost
them. And they had young guyswho they knew weren't quite ready yet.

(26:00):
But if they had taken them offand putting Armando Renoso and I were the
two guys that got sent to colorOn Springs to start the year because we
were non roster really and they keptsome guys who ended up not being good
enough, and we both got anopportunity. By the time I got my
opportunity, though I was not ina very good place physically. I was
living in Broomfield and driving color Springsevery day and my wife was very pregnant,
very pregnant. Right, So yes, when I did get my chance

(26:22):
up here again, I said Ihad one regret, but I really have
two because I don't think I gavemy best I didn't put my best foot
forward when I came here. Interesting, it was fun to play, you
know, fun to take them outin front of sixty thousand people, and
even crazier when you go out andget knocked all over the place by the
Braves and Baylor comes out to takethe ball from you, and they're standing
and giving you innovation. I rememberwalking off the field, and I'm not
trying to assult anyone who's listing,but I'm walked off the field. I

(26:42):
looked up in the stands. Isaid, were you people even watching the
game? You see? I justgot knocked all over the place and you're
cheering. But we were just soexcited to have baseball. Was the only
place you pitched, was it?Mile high? Never pitched a cruse field.
I retired a week before my kidswere born. Okay, so they
were going to send me down backdown to Color Springs, and I said,
I'm going to have to throw mylast pitch in Riverfront Stadium in Cincinnati,

(27:03):
so we'll call it a career.Oh wow, you were the first
Native to be a player with theRockies, which is a very cool.
Cool. It is cool. Andthen Kyle Newman told me last year,
the writer for the Post told methat I'm the only guy who have played
high school ball, college ball,and professional baseball in Colorado. That's really
cool. Oh, I like thatone. So, as you mentioned,
your wife has triplets a week afteryou retire. Wow, well, I

(27:25):
mean obviously wasn't surprised it was coming, but nine months to prepare for that.
But that's another reason I had pushedto stay here to sign with this
team, because I didn't want togo off somewhere else. Did you always
keep a home here? Okay?In fact, when I played for the
Zephyrs, you know, I'd comehome and go home, and I lived
my wife and I had a housein Westminster, and every also helped looking
for apartments. See at the ballpark. Before you talk about the babies,

(27:48):
how did you and your wife meet? Because you weren't married when you got
called up with the Astros, sosomewhere she came in and put up with
all your stuff pretty much we met, she was she had moved here with
her sister and was working at theFresh Fist company when we met. So
no kidding. She's still a Californianat heart. She now owns a coat.
Most people moving in California don't knowthe jacket she took her refuse,
but she now owns a coat,So she's wearing it today. That's great.
And then does she travel along withyou wherever you with kids? Obviously

(28:11):
what we're playing with walk. Shedid a lot of traveling, and it
was good for her to get tosea places like Cleveland and New York and
Boston and Swite. Absolutely she enjoyedthat part. Okay, now the triplets,
what what are we traveling at thatpoint? Yeah? Boys? Girls?
What do you have with your triplets? Two girls and one boy?
Triplets? And then we have ayounger daughter also, oh gosh, you
had more. Yeah. So they'reall thirty years old, same age as

(28:32):
the Rockies. Oh my gosh.So they're all doing what My son has
autism, so he lives with Momand I. And so the girls are
all doing very well in their ownthat is great. One is an FBI
agent, actually, no kidding,very impressive. Okay. So then after
retirement, obviously your dad for along time still our dad. Oh yes,
And then you get into what youwent to school for. You You
you've worked in so many parts ofthe media as far as whether it be

(28:57):
TV, radio, you do podcasts. You're writing though, I know you
must love writing, because that's whatI see the most of well, that's
why obviously grow up collecting. Imean, my parents used to get crazy
because I had stacks of sports sectionsunder my bed. I learned to inverted
pyramid before I even know what invertedpyramid was. I just wrote that style,
and you mimic what you read.So yeah, writing was always what
I wanted to do. I gota chance to do it as a high

(29:17):
school, got a chance to doin college. So it was what I
wanted to do, and it waseasy, an easy decision to jump back
into it, not knowing that ifI was doing it properly, I would
have left baseball and gone to workin lineman or something like that, right,
and work my way up the ladderlike everybody else does. Everybody else
has to work their way up theladder. I think I came out of
out of baseball expecting that my baseballcareer was going to have me let me
jump over some of those steps.And that's not the way the real world

(29:38):
works. It might work for aguy who's leaving the field and going into
the broadcast boosts for football or somethinglike that, but in writing, there
was too many good people doing whatI wanted to do who were better than
I was and had paid their duesand I hadn't, So I found myself
trying to force my own niche andI got to write for the Colorado and
briefly and some other outfits briefly,but never really got an opportunity to be
a the guy or the columnists.How many columnist jobs are there in town

(30:03):
four not well, and it diminishedin half when the Rocky went away.
And so those jobs are not forpeople who are not trained. And the
guys we have have had doing themover the years here are all outstanding.
We've had some fantastic When you lookat the Kislows in the Woody, I
mean decades and decades they've been here. Connor was before that, and now
we've got Sean Keeler and guys likethat who are great at what they do.

(30:23):
Yeah, and you're not gonna supplantthem. They're not just gonna give
you a job because you used toplay baseball, right, So that's been
a harder road really than baseball was. Baseball was very regimented. You did
this, you did this, Thisis you're on your own kind of and
it's been a harder road. I'vedone some sports talk obviously, but nowadays,
honestly, unless you're Dave Logan orsomebody like that, you've got to
bring revenue with you in some capacity, whether it's advertisers or are you going

(30:45):
to sell it yourself? Very true. And a lot of these guys on
the radio who want to be onthe radio now don't understand the correlation between
sales and programming. In fact,when I worked in this building, sales
on the fourth floor, weren't they, and sales on the second floor and
programs on the fourth floor. Yes, neverthe two shall meet, yeah,
And now they have met, andthe fourth floor and third floor together.
Don Martin and I have this conversationwhen he brought me back to do sales
here, and it was two thousand. I did sales briefly. I wasn't

(31:07):
very good at it, but Ilearned a lot. You learned that those
two things are so integrated. Ifthey're not talking and not communicating, not
working together, it's not going toget done. And that's the business now.
And I tell kids who are goingto broadcast school, I said,
better learn how to sell, youbetter learn how to market yourself, because
that's the way the business is now. That's great advice and something that I
don't think about telling people that Iprobably should, that you have got to
prove your worth. The revenue's gotto come with you. It's all about

(31:30):
sales. It's all about the dollar. And what else can you do?
Can you podcast and add a sponsorto that? Blah blah bah, oh
the clicks whatever it is? Now? How other measures? What the measurements
are? Now, you've got toproduce that or they'll find somebody that can.
So what is your favorite thing thatyou do now in retirement as far
as the journalism, Parker, ButI was talking to Patrick Lyines yesterday,
the longtime Rockies writer, and hesaid, you know, the thing is

(31:51):
the funny thing is what we liketo do best pays is the least.
And that's absolutely yes. I lovemy Breco sideline job. Does not pay
me the rest you have you haveto do your other stuff. So I
love writing, obviously, but that'snot something. I write four columns a
week basically right now for what hepays his website and for Mile High Sports.
So I'm doing plenty of writing.I write for the Mylea sports magazine.

(32:12):
I love. That doesn't make youa ton of money and neither.
Just high school baseball coaching, whichI got involved in Severnal eight years ago,
which is addictive. And Dave cantell you this too. You get
addicted to that. It doesn't payyou a lot. In fact, I
don't think it pays Dave anything.If I'm not mistaken. He does not
take a paycheck. Yeah, butit's probably what he loves to do the
most. It is with me.It's it's addicting and it's something that baseball
is not a year round sport,but I'm involved with these kids on your
round basis. I'm going to watchhim play football or basketball, or I've

(32:35):
got off season batting practice like wehave on Saturdays, or something like the
indoor stuff. It's something that consumesyour time. You certainly got to find
a way to make some more moneyoff on side, because if you're not,
you can't do what you really loveto do. Right, And you
said they're three a yeah, wortheOkay, Prospectidy Prospect Ridge Academy in Brumfield,
in my home right up there bytop Golf. We're real close.
Oh yeah, okay, twenty fiveokay, all right, Yeah, it's

(32:59):
funny. I'll bring up to anyagain because he's the pitching coach out of
Chatfield and his kids graduated last year. But the juniors came to him and
said, you know, coach,would you please come back? And He's
like, I just love these kidsso much. So I'm like, yeah,
one dred percent. You bet onehundred percent on the Spotlin you start
looking at oh, because I've hadpeople why don't you go back and take
over at north Plane. Well,I love Northland coach and our buddies.
I'm not taking that job. ButI live in Johnstown and the Johnstown Roosevelt

(33:22):
High School. Somebody who knew thead said the ad would like to talk
to you. So I'm not goinganywhere. I've got a forty minute drive
to school, but I don't carebecause it's right now on I twenty five.
I don't care. I'm where Iwant to be right now. I'm
not good enough Firson All to moveup. I haven't won enough games to
or at an elevation to a fourA or five day job. But I
really like where I'm at. Ilove these kids, and I sit there
saying, well, after this classgraduates, or after this class graduates,
but then the next one comes inand you're just all enthralled with that group,

(33:44):
and I don't see myself leaving there. And kudos to you for doing
that, because it's so special.It's so hard to find those great coaches
out there that just love it andcontinue to teach and coach. I'm privileged,
I'll use that word. I don'tuse it lightly. I'm privileged to
have as an assistant coach Bob Body, who was at Naiwan. He's been
everywhere, David Bodie's son place forthe Cubs. His grandson, Zeke is

(34:06):
my best player. Bob's coach forforty six years. It's like having an
encyclopedia stand of next year. Ohmy gosh. It's having somebody who'll tell
you if you want to, I'mgonna take this pitch out. I know
you're not. Leave him alone.He's fine, just the way is don't
And Bob saved me from making alot of mistakes because, as Bud Black
and I talked about a corps oneday, the first thing you learn is
what you don't know. The firstthing I learned when I got the job

(34:27):
was WHOA I was a pitching coach. I know WHOA well. I don't
know. Is amazing. Bud said, try to learn to think three things
ahead. That'll slowly things down foryou and you'll kind of give a better
feel for what's going on. Letthe hitting coach and the base coaches do
their thing, and you just tryto think three nings ahead. And that's
helped a lot. It's hard tobecome that CEO that has to look at
the whole picture and not just thespecialized area where you were so used to
being. You cannot get caught upas a manager and pitch to pitch.

(34:50):
If you do, then things sneakup on you all of a sudden it's
the seventh inning or whatever, andyou go, oh, I should have
done this, I should have donetwo innings ago. So yeah, I
think we see that happen in football, when all of a sudden you'll your
coach make a mistake. You're like, wait, do they even know what
time? How much time is lefton the clock, or how many time
outs they have? And that's whathappens. You get so caught up in
something you're like, no, no, no, no, You've got to
look at everything now, not justone thing. Ye, absolutely right,

(35:13):
all right, Marc, As wewrap this up. I ask all my
guests their best advice they give topeople, And you've alluded to a lot
of this throughout of what you tellpeople as they kind of go through life.
You had the grind of baseball,and now you've had the grind of
after retirement, of trying to figureout, okay, what works. How
do you kind of keep reinventing yourself? Well, I think the most important
thing is to be able to kindof roll with the punches, especially in

(35:34):
baseball is a game that teaches youto recover from failure because you get knocked
down seven out of ten times ifyou're great, more often if you're not.
And if you can't get back up, dust yourself off and get back
in there, you can just laythere and lose, or you can get
back up, dust yourself off,and keep going. Failure is not permanent,
it's just temporary. And if youdon't learn how to deal with that,
and if you don't learn how toaccept it, then it's going to

(35:55):
eat you live. And you can'tparticipate in that. You've got to go
do something that doesn't involve winning andlosing. But then again, what in
life doesn't involve winning and losing?Absolutely. And that's a great thing you
say about baseball because if you thinkwe talk about hitters and a four hundred
average is great, that's four hitsout of every ten. Yeah, oh
you know, and if you doanything four times good out of ten times
us, you're like, eh,yes, not so good. If a

(36:15):
quarterback completes forty percent of his passes, he's not playing much right. It's
a game based on failure and recoveryfrom failure. A guy hit a line
drive and third basementll snagget and histeammates will say, hang with him,
What else can you do? Yougo up there next time and hit a
blooper over the third basem said,you got a hit. Now you're even
Where can everybody find all your stuff? Mostly Mile High Sports obviously. I'm
on Twitter at mark Nuts and fortyone and Woody page dot com, my

(36:37):
national stuff for Woody, my localstuff for Mile High Sports, and Mile
High Sports Magazine. We've gone toa quarterly format now, which I think
is kind of cool because we cando a little deeper stuff. I'm doing
a lot of C issue features formthe magazine. Saw that and see you
too. I'll do some CU stuffI'm not everybody's favorite, and Boulder Dean
and I have a long history.I mean, I played against Dion when
he was in the big playing boldbaseball. I'm not a deal camp,

(37:00):
but you know, people will forgiveme when that when he leaves town,
and it will happen. At somepoint, it will happen. Yeah,
all right, Hey Mark, thanksso much, pleasure, Thank you,
Mark. New episodes of Cut,Traded, Fired, Retired are released on
Tuesdays. Please follow, download,and like this podcast wherever you listen to
podcasts. You can also keep upon new releases by following on Twitter and

(37:22):
Instagram at CTFUR podcast and on thewebsite CTFR podcast dot com. I'm your
host, Susie Wargen. To learnmore about me, visit susiewargin dot com.
Thanks for checking out this episode,and until next time, please be
careful, be safe, and bekind. Take care