November 15, 2025 • 56 mins
Join host Tom Butler as he takes listeners on an adventure in his search for a new bike – a quest that proves to be different than anticipated. Tom also shares his thoughts on a innovative pump he backed on Kickstarter, giving you the scoop on whether this crowdfunded cycling accessory lives up to its promises.
The episode features an engaging conversation with Dave Brengelmann, who shares his experienced insights on mountain biking in Whistler, British Columbia. While Whistler's Mountain Bike Park has earned worldwide fame, Dave makes a compelling case that the truly exceptional riding experiences are found beyond the park's boundaries. He reveals the lesser-known trails and hidden gems that make Whistler a mountain biker's paradise.
Whether you like hearing about new bikes, curious about the latest cycling gear, or dreaming of your next two-wheeled adventure in one of the world's premier mountain biking destinations, this episode delivers the inspiration and information you need. Perfect for anyone who loves exploring fantastic places on two wheels.
Links
Zilch Webpage: radian-usa.com/collections/zilch
Zilch Video: youtu.be/7bKUteTzn3g?si=yl0W4G8F-I--E6Bi
Here is your invitation to join a great launch party for the summer cycling season. Join the Cycling Over Sixty Tour de Cure PNW team. Whether you are local or come out to experience cycling in the great Northwest, I would love to have you help make this a ride with a purpose. And to send a message that the joy of cycling is here for everyone, regardless of age. Go to tour.diabetes.org/teams/CO60
I know it is early but we are looking to get the Cycling Over Sixty Tour de Cure team together as soon as possible. You can find all the info at tour.diabetes.org/teams/CO60
Thank you Konvergent Wealth for sponsoring CO60 Jerseys for the Tour de Cure!
Become a member of the Cycling Over Sixty Strava Club! www.strava.com/clubs/CyclingOverSixty
Cycling Over Sixty is also on Zwift. Look for our Zwift club!
Please send comments, questions and especially content suggestions to me at info@cyclingoversixty.com
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Show music is "Come On Out" by Dan Lebowitz. Find him here : lebomusic.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tom Butler (00:23):
So I'm starting off this week by focusing on my
search for a gravel bike.
I need a different bike thatwill serve three functions.
One is to ride on gravel, thesecond is to do the bike
camping, and finally, I thinkthe same bike can handle cycle
cross racing.
I'm gonna bring you along as Igo through the process of
finding a new bike.
(00:43):
I've got a ton of questionsabout what bike is right for me.
I'm expecting it's gonna take awhile to find just the right
bike, and I'm not sure where thejourney will take me, but I'm
bringing you along.
Here is my first segment ofthat search.
I'm in my car in the parkinglot outside Northwest Tryon
Bike, and I'm beginning mysearch for a gravel bike.
(01:10):
So I just have a simple thingI'm trying to figure out today,
and that's how do I determinewhat I want as far as frame
dimensions?
I really like the way that myspecialized reb feels.
Can I just try to duplicatethat the frame dimension on a
(01:32):
gravel bike, or do I need to bethinking about a gravel bike
frame differently?
So this is step one.
Uh I don't know how many stepsit'll be, but the first step
here is to get a handle ongetting a gravel bike that'll
fit me.
So here we go.
I'm back in the car after mydiscussions at Northwest Try and
(02:00):
Bike, and uh I'm surprised tosay that my search for a gravel
bike is over.
So there was this was not along process.
We got talking about a specificbike.
Uh, it just like checked offall the boxes, boxes I didn't
(02:22):
even know were gonna be boxes,long discussion, and so I'm
done.
So that was fast.
Stay tuned.
I'll be giving more details onwhat I chose, why I chose it,
and all that stuff.
And I am really excited.
Yeah, sometimes things don't goexactly as planned.
(02:45):
I never imagined that I wouldbe able to walk into the closest
bike shop to me and have thefirst bike we talked about be
perfect.
But that is what happened, andthat makes the journey I was
going to bring you along on wayshorter than I expected.
I'm not sharing the details ofthe bike here, I'll save that
for a whole episode.
But I'm excited to reveal whatI chose and go through all the
(03:08):
reasons why I made the choices Imade.
It might take a few weeks toget the bike in my hands, and
I'll talk about it as soon as Ican.
I can share something else thatis new.
I'm not as excited about thisas the new bike, but I'm still
pretty pumped about it, which isa terrible pun because I want
to share some information on mynew bike pump.
Several months ago Iparticipated in my first
(03:30):
Kickstarter campaign.
I pre-purchased a Zilch floorpump.
It's sold by a company namedRadian.
I've never liked standard floorpumps.
The bond trigger pump I have isdifficult to get connected
fully to the stem.
For some reason, I frequentlysmack my thumb when I'm
disengaging the nozzle from thestem.
My dissatisfaction with thebond trigger meant that I was
(03:53):
attracted to the message aboutthe zilch.
They say, quote, the zilch headfinally makes it easy for
anyone to fill their bike tires,end quote.
I've never really heard manypeople complaining, but I felt
like Zilch understood me.
They go on to say that theZilch has an award-winning
proprietary seal design.
What I saw was enough for me tospend $105 to get one.
(04:15):
Like with a lot of Kickstarterthings, I had to wait a good
amount of time to finally getthe pump.
But I am really happy with it.
The head is a lot like what youwould find on a plastic spray
bottle, except a lot beefier.
You put the nozzle over thestem and squeeze the trigger to
seal it.
When you're done inflating thetire, you squeeze the trigger
again and it releases.
(04:36):
It did take me a little bit todo it right, but probably for
most people it should be easy tooperate.
My only complaint is that thepressure indication dial is not
as good as on the Bond Traeger.
Now there is an option for moremoney to get a digital display.
I probably would have donethat, but I don't think it was
an option when I bought mine.
I do want to find an accuratepressure gauge at some point,
(04:57):
just to make sure that I cantrust the pressure indicator on
the Zilch.
You can still get the pump for$105, but the normal price is
listed as $130.
It's currently on sale.
The website is radianusa.com,and I'll put that link in the
show notes.
Well and that's the thing forthis update.
I don't think I will do anymore cyclocrust racing this
(05:20):
year.
I just don't think my bike isadequate for it.
That is especially true giventhe fact that I think cyclocrust
courses are getting more andmore challenging because of the
rain here in the northwest now.
That means I have a good bit oftime to train for my next race.
One thing I will be focused onis how to get more power when
racing.
During my first race, my heartrate was as high as I can
(05:42):
sustain it.
But that didn't translate topower as compared to what I put
out at the same heart rate levelon the road or on the indoor
trainer.
I'll be sharing with youeverything I learned from my
conversation with people aboutgetting more power.
Fortunately, I've got an accessto a coach in John Butler, and
I'll be working with the team atPhysician Coach on kind of the
(06:05):
physiology aspect of it.
One thing I want to do beforenext fall is convince some
Cycling Over 60 listeners tojoin me at a cyclecross race
here in the Seattle area.
So if that's you, reach out andlet me know you're interested.
I've only been to Whistler,British Columbia once.
(06:28):
It was in the summertime.
Kelly and I went up a long timeago for a timeshare
presentation before I knew howmiserable timeshare
presentations are.
We felt like it was one of themost beautiful places in the
Northwest, but for some reasonwe haven't been back.
One thing is that we aren'tsnowskiers.
To be more accurate, I'm not asnow skier, and Kelly's needs
have made it difficult for herto ski.
(06:50):
But I often think about goingback for a visit.
When Dave Brenkelman emailed meabout biking in Whistler, I was
instantly interested in gettinghim on the podcast.
Dave is a mountain biker, andI'm always hesitant to talk
about mountain biking because Isecretly don't want to like it.
I fear open the door to need tobuy yet another bike.
Dave brings the perspective ofsomeone who really enjoys
(07:11):
getting out in the forest on abike, and I'm so glad he came
on.
Here is our conversation.
It is a pleasure to introducelisteners to Dave Brengelman.
Thank you, Dave, for joining metoday.
Dave Brengelmann (07:22):
Thank you for the invitation.
It's an honor to be here.
Tom Butler (07:25):
There are some exceptional outdoor recreation
locations around, and todaywe're going to get into one.
But to start the conversation,talk about your first experience
with the bicycle.
Dave Brengelmann (07:37):
My first experience with a bike, I
suppose that's the U District inSeattle.
I grew up on Pratt Row.
My father worked in healthsciences.
As a kid, the University ofWashington was my playground.
And later, I guess I wouldcommute to my dad's lab to do
homework.
So I was always riding aroundthe alleys of the U District.
(07:57):
You know, we're talking back inthe Ted Bundy days, right?
Riding my bike down to healthsciences and just riding around
the University of Washington,especially in the summer when
there was nobody around.
So I really enjoyed growing upand having both the UW and the
Green Lake as a playground and aplace to ride my bike.
Tom Butler (08:14):
That image it brings up to me is a kid being able to
be independent and being ableto make decisions about where
you're going.
You're not stuck in a car,you're kind of out and about.
And I love that image.
Dave Brengelmann (08:28):
Yeah, I think as bikers, we all have a sense
of freedom, right?
And as an adolescent, it'sespecially nice to, I suppose,
jump on the Burk Gilman and ridefor miles to get away.
So it is freedom and uhindependence that makes it
really nice.
Tom Butler (08:45):
Now, have you stayed active all your life?
Dave Brengelmann (08:48):
Yeah, pretty much.
I've been an active skier.
You know, we have ski areasjust 90 minutes away from
Seattle.
And I haven't been a biker allmy life, but skiing and boating
and hiking and running, I guess.
So I've been pretty active.
But I have to say, uh, when Istarted cycling, I I became much
more active and much more fitlater in life.
Tom Butler (09:09):
Uh, did you have a bike and you used it every once
in a while, or was it reallykind of a period where you were
not on a bicycle?
Dave Brengelmann (09:16):
Well, let's see.
Had an office next to GreenLake and no bike.
A co-worker sold me a bike for400 bucks.
And I started riding aroundGreen Lake in the morning.
And then a buddy from the gymchallenged me to do the Seattle
to Portland bike ride.
And like many of us in Seattle,that's a bucket list item,
(09:38):
right?
So I started training in uhJanuary, maybe 10 years ago, for
the STP and did the ride.
Now, you know, I've got fiveSTPs and numerous cascade rides
behind me.
I got a shout out to thatorganization.
As you know, they are fantasticfor anybody getting into
biking.
(09:58):
You know, I'll teach you how totrain for a 200-mile bike ride.
And many of us, our firstcentury ride, first hundred-mile
ride is flying wheels in theSnoqualmie Valley.
So that SDP got me hooked onbiking, changed my life, had a
sailboat up until that point,got rid of the boat and started
biking on the weekends.
Tom Butler (10:17):
Well, you talked about Green Lake, and for people
that aren't in the area, it isa freshwater lake that's kind of
north of Seattle a little bit,north of downtown Seattle a
little bit.
And it's got a trail around it.
It's a pretty busy and prettypopular place to get outdoors.
Dave Brengelmann (10:36):
Yeah, all times of the year, dreary days,
sunny days.
There's people out on GreenLake.
And recently they, even thoughbikes are permitted in the inner
ring, so to speak, they have anouter ring that's bikes only.
It's protected bike lane, soit's a fantastic place to go,
especially this time of year inthe autumn when the leaves are
(10:56):
changing.
Tom Butler (10:57):
Have you experienced cycling outside the U.S.?
I I think that I read that youlived in Japan.
Is that right?
Dave Brengelmann (11:04):
That's correct.
I lived in Japan, so I used todrive, I used to ride a junker
from my apartment to the trainstation.
But aside from that, it mighthave been renting a bike for a
day in China or Vietnam.
And of course, having donethat, I I got a shout out to all
those guys who who are doingtours over there because it'd be
(11:24):
fantastic to go to Vietnam fora week or two, or Japan, or
Cambodia, or Malaysia.
And I'm sure there are manyexperts who would be glad to be
on your podcast to talk aboutthat.
Tom Butler (11:35):
Let's talk about mountain biking.
You're a marketing guy, so sellme on mountain biking for
cyclists over 60 because I'venot taken that up.
Now, one thing is you know, Idon't need another form of
biking to have to buy a bike todo, but um, but sell me on
(11:56):
mountain biking for cyclistsover 60.
Dave Brengelmann (12:00):
Uh, that's a good one.
All I gotta say is you gotta doit.
You know, I think it's anevolution from road to gravel to
mountain, or maybe road tomountain.
But riding on the road is sodangerous, right?
I mean, granted, mountainbiking is dangerous too.
You can get hurt, but it'swithin your control.
(12:21):
But road biking, you never knowif you're gonna get hit by a
distracted driver.
People are killed, right?
So safety is one thing, but Ithink what it is for me, with a
mountain bike, you get to seethese incredible views.
And I just have I think onemountain bike trip to a place
(12:45):
like the plains of Abraham andMount St.
Helens would turn you into amountain biker for a for life
because you are in a sea ofwildflowers or the number two
canyon over in Wenatchee whenthe wildflowers are out.
I mean, you can if you're on aroad, you're looking at asphalt
and yellow lines and curves.
(13:06):
But if you're in a sea ofwildflowers and looking at Mount
Rainier or Mount St.
Helens or Mount Baker, itreally doesn't get any better
than that.
Although, maybe with roadbiking, start your mountain
riding up the passes we havelocally.
You can get up to the SunriseVisitor Center without cars, or
Artist, is it Artist Point orArtist Ridge at Mount Baker
(13:30):
without cars?
You can get to Hurricane Ridgewithout cars.
That is some of the best roadbiking that we have in the
Pacific Northwest.
Tom Butler (13:38):
And my failed attempt to ride across
Washington State.
I was on roads that weren't,you know, it wasn't free of
cars, you know, so there wasthat element.
But there is something aboutexperiencing the natural world
on a bicycle and on the speed ofcycling that I find to be
(13:59):
really unique.
And so you're probably right,you know, to have uh one of
those experiences uh where I'mthinking you can get out there
without a lot of people around.
You know, if you're out ridingwith a group of people, you're
maybe with people, but I'mthinking you can get out to some
of these areas where therearen't a lot of people around
and just experience that on theuh speed of cycling.
(14:22):
That sounds pretty attractiveto me.
Dave Brengelmann (14:25):
Yeah, but I mean, admit it, you road bikers,
sorry, you road bikers are justaddicted to endorphins.
I've been there, right?
An eight-hour ride, uh 10-hourride on a road bike is such a
great high, for lack of a betterword.
It's just that endorphin rush.
(14:46):
And there's something to that.
But while you're having, I lovethis, you know, me versus you
guys, right?
You guys are out there havingyour power bars and your goo.
I'm sitting on some mountaintopwith a sandwich, right?
As a matter of fact, recently Ihave an e-bike, all right.
I'm sorry, I'm a center.
I have an e-mountain bike, andI was on my e mountain bike with
(15:10):
on a gravel ride up by Hayek,Snowqualming Pass, and we were
at mile 50, maybe, and myfriends were all huffing and
puffing, and I decided to openmy basket on the way up a hill
and start feeding on some olivesand cheese and offering it to
my friends, right?
They were so mad.
(15:30):
But mountain biking is thatit's it's so nice to be out and
see these incredible remoteplaces that we have around the
state.
Tom Butler (15:44):
Well, I think the the truth of the matter is the
bicycle is not just one thing.
You know, the bicycle ismultiple things.
And there are times when I'mout for a ride, and the bicycle
is just a device for me to pushmyself physically.
And there's other times whenI'm out with my family and it's
(16:06):
a device for me to experiencethe environment, and I'm not
pushing myself physically atall.
You know, there's times whenthe bike is a way to get through
a city and not have to dealwith a car.
That's what I love about thebicycle.
And what's so intriguing to me,and what just sucks me into the
(16:26):
bicycle, is it's not just one.
You're describing an aspect ofthe bicycle that is a fantastic
aspect.
Dave Brengelmann (16:36):
Well, at the same time, it's nice to jump on
the bike.
I live in North Seattle, veryclose to Edmonds.
It's nice to jump on the bikeand go into town and maybe grab
a beer or two.
So just as a mode oftransportation, it's fantastic.
And then around the Seattlearea, it doesn't matter if you
have a mountain bike or a gravelbike or road bike, the way this
(16:56):
our city was set up in theearly days by the landscape
architecture firm, right?
The Olmsted Brothers, there'sso many great places to take a
bike.
For example, Interlocken,right?
And Capitol Hill and the Ravineand Cowan Park and Ravenna Park
and Lake Washington Boulevard.
(17:17):
These were all designed, paidfor by our early city founders,
and any kind of bike, it doesn'tmatter what you have, we'll get
you to those places.
Tom Butler (17:27):
Yeah, and so I'll take a moment to promote, you
know, come out to Seattle andride.
Um, if you're hearing this inMay, book a trip, be here May
2nd, and uh you can ride withus, the tour to cure, and then
also experience some of theseother great places to ride
around.
So uh put that on your calendarand start making plans to come
(17:48):
out and join us.
Dave Brengelmann (17:49):
I'd love that May 2nd.
I'll be there.
Tom Butler (17:51):
So talk about your journey to find a bike.
Dave Brengelmann (17:55):
Well, back to the STP.
You don't really need anythingfancy, you don't need to go and
buy a $4,500 bike or a $5,000bike if you're gonna do a
century or two centuries on aweekend.
I started again with a $400urban cruiser that I did my
(18:16):
first century on, you know, anold specialized.
But from there, I mean, youknow, year or two, I I upgraded
to a um a Cannondale.
Fortunately, that was rippedoff in Granville Island up in
Vancouver, another great placeto ride.
Vancouver, BC, up in Canada.
Insurance took care of anupgrade for me, so I upgraded to
Le Bay, and that is themountain, the mountain climbing
(18:42):
road bike for you know MountRainier and Mount Baker, right?
And Hurricane Ridge.
At that point, you know, mostof my friends were riding
gravel, and I it was time to buya bike.
And I'm thinking, what do whatdo I got to get?
A $6,500 diverge or what tokeep up with all these bike
packers.
And I thought, well, you know,an e-mountain bike can do gravel
(19:07):
and it can do mountain and itcan do roads.
So I ended up buying aspecialized Levo SL, a super
light mountain bike.
And for those who areinterested in mountain bikes,
there's such a plethora ofoptions today.
And there's class one, two,three.
We don't need to get into that,but just in class ones, the
ones that'll give you a littlebump into 20 miles an hour, you
(19:28):
have super light mountain bikesand you have, you know, these
big tanks.
I bought a super light mountainbike that's 38 pounds, and it
makes for a graph, a greatgravel ride.
I've put a little bit skinniertires on there, and I'll go out
and do a 60-mile gravel ridewith friends or use that as an
urban cruiser.
(19:48):
It's perfectly adequate to havea super light bike with a
smaller motor.
You just have to work harderand it'll keep you a little more
fit.
Now I'm at a point where uh I'mstarting to ride with a
different group of guys, motoguys, who you know, these guys
all grew up on motorcycles andthey're about going fast.
And so I ended up with a newspecialized turbo Livo 4, and
(20:11):
it's got so much power, it youknow, you end up doing wheelies
when you're going uphill.
It's dangerous, it'sunnecessary.
So uh anyway, start if you'rejust starting in mountain
biking, I encourage encourageyou to look at a super light
bike.
Tom Butler (20:25):
I think that's probably something to try to
rent someplace.
I imagine you could go out andrent one of those and to give it
a try out someplace.
Do you know if that's the case?
Dave Brengelmann (20:36):
I know we'll be talking about Whistler later,
but if you go up to a placelike Whistler, there are five or
six different stores, and theyhave every kind of bike you can
imagine.
So you can try a super lightbike, which is going to be
around 38, 37 pounds, or you cantry a standard mountain bike,
which is gonna be closer to 60pounds.
Tom Butler (20:58):
Well, you mentioned Whistler, and so you reached
out, you were talking aboutbeing a fan of Whistler
Blackcomb in British Columbia.
And first, just talk about likethe environment there.
What's it like?
What's the countryside like?
Dave Brengelmann (21:15):
There's a common expression at Whistler.
Everybody knows Whistler forthe great winter activities,
right?
People go there for the winter,but they stay there for the
summer.
You have one of the world'sbest, well, we'll just say the
world's best bike park, right?
The best bike park on theplanet, and it's got everything,
(21:36):
right?
It's got everything.
But I'm not here to talk aboutthe bike park today, because
what I think is so special aboutWhistler are the 200 miles of
trails outside of the park.
So go up and enjoy the park,you know, spend an arm and a leg
on a ticket, but be up therefor a week and then just start
(21:59):
sampling the trail network.
There's two I want to talkabout today the village trail
network, which is all asphalt,it's great for road riding, and
then the mountain bikingnetwork.
So in the valley, you have Ithink it's close to 30, 40 miles
uh road riding, and there'sfour lakes.
(22:22):
So you can you can ride arounda different lake or all the
lakes, but the best riding is inis in the hills.
And so you're pulling intoWhistler, and imagine looking to
your left and looking to yourright.
There's a little town called alittle area called Function
Junction on the way in.
From Function Junction all theway to Pemberton, there's places
(22:46):
to mountain bike on both sidesof the valley, and there's
anything you want.
There's spicy blue, there'sgreen.
You know, most people startwith the Lost Lake Trails, also
known as the Zappa Trails.
Have you heard of those?
Tom Butler (23:00):
No.
Dave Brengelmann (23:01):
Well, I'm not a Zappa fan, but I can tell you
that the guy that built theZappa Trails was a fan.
So you go into this area, it'sall by Lost Lake, and you'll
find Pinocchio's furniture andToads of the Short Forest, and
treacherous Creekens, and MuffinMen, and Central Scrutinizer,
(23:24):
and Johnny Can't Read.
And you look in their oldZappa's followings.
But nice, that's a great placeto start your mountain biking
journey.
So rent a bike in town and thentry the Lost Lake Trails.
There are green trails and bluetrails, and there's black,
they're black trails.
They're all very wellmaintained by the city and
they're very well marked.
You know, you you shouldprobably have uh trail forks so
(23:48):
you can uh know your way aroundbecause you will get lost in the
lost lake trails.
But there's a there's a trailtrail that well basically takes
you to the sea to sky, sea tosky, not the sea to sky highway,
but the sea to sky trail.
You can find a bike trail allthe way basically from Squamish
(24:08):
to Pemberton.
So from Squamish to Whistler toPemberton, there's there might
be 10 or 15 miles you have toride on the road, but there's
great riding all throughout theregion.
So you have the Was LakeTrails.
I'll just say if you're firstgoing to Whistler, I recommend
you take the green trails toGreen Lake and check up the
(24:30):
spin.
Tom Butler (24:32):
So when you're talking about green trails, is
that a signification ofdifficulty?
Dave Brengelmann (24:39):
Yes, it's not, they're all environmentally
very green, I am sure.
But yeah, just like uh skiing,green, blue, and black and
double black.
And I tell you, it's it's alittle bit different.
If you are used to the Seattlemountain biking scene, you know,
you'll ride a blue or you'llride a green or a black.
Up there, they're very spicy.
(24:59):
So if you can imagine a spicyblue is like a black.
And if you talk to anybody inSquamish and you ask them, you
know, what should I ride?
I'm like an intermediatewriter, and they'll send you on
a blue.
Well, that blue is going toscare you a little bit.
Here's an example of a blue.
You're coming up on a on ahill, a crest of a hill, and
there's some rocks you have tonavigate, and then you go over
(25:23):
the top, and it's like, oh mygoodness, I'll just say that.
There's like an elevator shaftyou have to go down.
And that's a blue run, right?
And there's there's no lookingback.
You you need to be anexperienced rider if you're
gonna ride blues in squamish,and we'll sort of a little bit
easier.
I would encourage you to take aprogression.
(25:44):
So start on the greens and thenand then just evolve up to the
blacks, and and in a coupleyears you'll be riding
comfortably numb in the uh inthe area, which is really scary.
But uh anyway, that's it.
Tom Butler (26:00):
I would be more than happy, I think, with staying on
greens as much as I can.
Dave Brengelmann (26:06):
Good thing for you is so you're traveling with
an expert, you can be on thegreen, and the blues run
parallel, they're just up forbill.
And they might have somebridges and they might have some
drops, but you can run along onyour green and you're just
fine, and the blues caneventually come back and meet
the green.
So the lost lake trails, that'sone of the beautiful things.
(26:27):
Now, what I would probablyrecommend, I'm gonna mention my
favorite spot, although Ishouldn't give away the secret.
Let me just say that up in upin Canada, maybe it's a little
less litigious, maybe the peopleare nicer, but they allow
mountain bikes on some of thebest hiking trails.
There's a hiking trail thatgoes to Lake Chickamas.
(26:50):
Lake Chickamas is just up theriver from Function Junction, so
you can ride or shuttle up tothe trailhead and then ride your
mountain bike or hike to LakeChickamas.
And you get up to the lake, andit's this green, glacial, silk,
(27:11):
emerald, beautiful lake, andthere aren't too many people
out.
You share the trail withhikers, so you gotta be really
careful.
And I just worry that someoneis gonna ruin it for us all, and
eventually they will not allowbikers because down here in the
United States, we wouldn't allowmountain bikers on such a
(27:32):
trail.
Tom Butler (27:33):
What is the etiquette there?
How how do you handle havinghikers on the same trail?
Dave Brengelmann (27:38):
Well, I think it's good practice to have a
bear bell so they hear youcoming.
Actually, yes, the Canadiansthey think bear bells aren't
effective.
It's more of a dinner bell thana bear bell.
But at least uh you know I haveridden the local trails, like
we have a park right off of LakeWashington called St.
(27:59):
Edward's.
Great place for an afternoonride, but there's a lot of trail
runners, so you gotta let themknow you're coming.
And then, of course, everybodyelse has the right of way all
the time.
So when it comes to mountainbiking, and this is different
than road road biking, you gotto be ready to stop on a dime.
If you're following a rider,you're not gonna get a signal.
You know, when we road bike,we're on a cascade ride,
(28:22):
everybody's yelling, you know,car up, car back, you get
signals when you're moving inand out of lanes, not mountain
biking, you got to be ready tostop on a dime.
So the etiquette is yes,everybody else has the right of
way.
But if you approach anothermountain biker, the mountain
(28:42):
biker that is going uphill hasthe right of way.
And it seems like a lot ofpeople don't know that, so you
just gotta be careful.
If you're if you're goinguphill, you know, chugging
along, and someone's comingdown, whoever's coming down
should really just stop and pulloff on the side and let the
uphill rider proceed.
Tom Butler (29:04):
It's a well-known area, and I'm wondering about
crowds.
Do you do you find it to becrowded there?
Do you are there certain timesthat you wouldn't go up there?
What's your thoughts there?
Dave Brengelmann (29:15):
Well, if you're over 60 and retired,
you're biking Monday throughFriday and not spending too much
time on the weekends, but itdoes get crowded, and the Lost
Lake Trails are crowded withtourists, and they may be novice
riders.
So you have to take specialcare in the trails.
(29:35):
And they don't know that uphillriders have the right-of-way.
So you have to assume thateverybody's out there for a good
time and you don't want toscare them or dissuade them from
biking.
It's almost the same thing onour local trails.
The rail to trail here in theSeattle area, Burke Gilman,
right?
That was one of the firsttrails, first rail to trails
(29:58):
project in the United States.
States and many were designedafter that.
You know, this female's 15, andyou see families there and
people walking their dogs.
And I see uptight bikers, butthere should be no reason to be
cruising past people and scaringpeople or hitting people.
So mountain biking is the samething, but to answer your
(30:20):
question, yeah, bike on bikeduring the week and you won't
have uh much for crowds.
Early season, uh Whistler earlyseason is fantastic because you
can ride on the golf courses.
They're close to dog walkersbecause of the bears, you might
encounter some bears.
To be able to uh ride thosebeautiful grounds early in the
season is just fantastic.
(30:41):
There's just gorgeous.
So if Whistler get there earlyin the season, the same thing is
true for the bike park.
If you wait till the end of thesummer to get to the bike park,
the trails are not going to bein optimal condition.
They're going to be there'sgoing to be a lot of brake
bumps.
And any mountain biker knowswhat I'm talking about, right?
(31:01):
There's just it's almost awashboard-like surface where
people apply their brakes beforeturns, and uh little annoying.
Tom Butler (31:10):
So start early and have smooth riding.
So you talked about yourfavorite riding place, and uh go
into a little more detail.
What what the experience, likehow far would you go out?
What what's the environmentlike?
What's the trail like?
Talk a little bit more aboutthat.
Dave Brengelmann (31:30):
Right.
Let me take you on a run.
So we're gonna start atfunction junction.
We can park right at the bottomof the hill, really close to
the freeway.
The nice thing about functionjunction is there's coffee
shops, so you can start your daywith a cup of coffee and pastry
if you want, and maybe meetsome locals, right?
And that's another story, butit seems like every time you're
you're riding at what's ifyou're ever alone, you're never
(31:51):
alone because you're gonna meeta local and they're gonna tour
you all around.
But anyway, you start atfunction junction and climb up
the hill next to the river.
You can go up the road or youcan shuttle, but you know, the
best thing is to go up by theriver.
So you're going up the ChickmasRiver, and after maybe 40
minutes, 45 minutes of climbing,you're at the trailhead.
(32:12):
That's where the hikers start.
And that's the point whereyou'd shuttle if you wanted to.
So you you ride the basicallyit's a flat trail or a traverse,
there's some up and downs, nota lot of elevation.
But the beautiful thing is yougo from secondary growth to old
growth, and it's like a clearmarkation, and you know, because
(32:32):
all of a sudden in the summer,you know, you've you're in old
growth where there's a limitedcanopy and it's hot and it might
be buggy, but then you get tothe old growth, and it's
wonderfully cool and quiet, andthis it's got this loamy
surface.
So you travel that out to youtravel that out to the lake, you
get to the lake, maybe you passby three groups of hikers,
(32:53):
everybody's nice.
And then you have lunch at thelake.
You come back after lunch, andthen you've got four flow trails
that take you back to functionjunction.
And uh yeah, mountain bikersknow what I'm talking about,
flow trails.
It's just you don't even hardlyhave to hit your brakes, you
just effortlessly glide down thehill.
(33:15):
And yeah, there's some bridgesand there's some drops, but you
can roll everything.
And at the end of the ride,you're having a beer.
There's two great breweriesdown there.
I've got a favorite, but noplugs.
Uh, there's two breweries downthere, so you can get your IPA.
And then, like, this happens tome.
Then I meet a guy and he'slike, Oh, you want to uh ride
(33:36):
down to Bridal Vale Falls on theSea to Sky Highway?
Uh it's like, okay, I got somebattery left.
So I follow this guy, he'sprobably 70, 75.
Down the Sea to Sky Trail, itgoes over the bungee zone.
So bikes are allowed to crossthat bridge.
You might see some bungeejumpers, it's kind of neat.
(33:58):
And then you end up with theseincredible rock formations where
you're on basalt pillars,they're all hexagons, right?
And then there's you keep ongoing a little bit, and there's
this ancient labyrinth that wasbuilt by we'll say First Nations
people, and then you're atBrandy Wine Falls, and they have
(34:20):
these wonderful water poles.
Well, locally, we have snowquality poles, right?
You can ride our bikes in thesnowmobile.
This is different because youget to ride the sea to sky
mountain biking single track,rode all the way to the
waterfalls.
And in our case, we came upback up on the highway.
I didn't have much battery, andit was hot and it was horrible,
but I figured if the70-year-old guy could do it, I
(34:42):
could follow him up.
So you end up at functionjunction, and that's a day of
riding at Whistler.
Tom Butler (34:48):
Wow, that that does sound spectacular for sure.
You're focused here on mountainbiking, but I'm wondering if
somebody wanted to combine amountain biking trip with a road
trip or a gravel trip, wouldyou find all those options as
well in the area?
Dave Brengelmann (35:07):
Yeah, we just did that last month.
So there's a Whistler GrandFonda, and for all you roadies
out there, I challenge you toride from Vancouver to Whistler
in a day.
Tom Butler (35:18):
So what's the mileage on that?
Dave Brengelmann (35:20):
Oh, don't ask me.
I'll look it up.
I don't know the mileage onthat, but it is a solid century
with plenty of elevation, andconditions can be tough.
Tom Butler (35:30):
Well, I'm looking at this RBC Grand Fondo Whistler,
and it says that it's uh 122kilometers, which is 76 miles,
2300 meters of elevation, so7,500 feet of elevation.
So that's a pretty good chunkof elevation.
(35:52):
But man, what an adventure thatwould be for sure.
Dave Brengelmann (35:57):
And the nice thing is that uh there's a bike
link dedicated to that ride.
I you know, bless my friendsfor doing that, but I just have
no desire whatsoever.
Maybe I am too old at 62 tothink of a grand fondo, but more
power to them.
They're strong riders.
Tom Butler (36:16):
Now they do have a 55-kilometer route that starts
in Whistler Village and ends inWhistler Village, and that's uh
2,740 feet of elevation.
So that's 34 miles, 2,745 feetof elevation.
That wouldn't be bad.
(36:37):
That's that's doable.
Dave Brengelmann (36:39):
More power to you.
I'll be uh cracking a beer inPunction Junction watching go
by.
I gotta tell you, it was greatto be at the finish line because
I was up there for the wholeweek and to see the guys that
finished first.
They're just incredible,incredible athletes.
Tom Butler (36:57):
Yeah, I would imagine it's very hot.
Dave Brengelmann (37:00):
I had a bunch of friends that rode the Grand
Fonda and met me.
But as soon as they got up toWhistler, they ditched their
road bikes and got on mountainbikes, and we started on the
Lost Lake Trails, and we went upChicometas and we did the Sea
to Sky.
I gotta mention uh here'sanother secret.
One of the most beautifulplaces on the Sea to Sky bike
(37:22):
trail is Gord's Garden.
Now, Gordon is uh thebrainchild of the Sea to Sky
Highway, and there's a memorialtomb in this really beautiful
spot.
I uh challenge listeners to gofind it, start your day in
Pemberton and ride the Sea toSky.
You'll be in for a verypleasant surprise.
There's more waterfalls there,too.
(37:44):
I would encourage folks tothink about instead of a Grand
Fondo ride, but maybe ridingfrom Squamish to Whistler to
Pemberton on a mountain bike ona sea to sky trail.
Tom Butler (37:56):
This is a tourist destination place.
Talk a bit about the dining andlodging options up there.
Dave Brengelmann (38:03):
Well, the lodging options in the winter
are very expensive, right?
It's very crowded.
There's a lot of demand.
There's people coming from allover the world.
So you might end up spendingfour or five hundred dollars in
US per night for accommodations.
But the summer is completelydifferent.
If you get up there with yourbicycle in the summer, you can
(38:25):
find great discounts and onlyend up spending maybe a couple
hundred dollars a night for areally nice place.
And what we do is usually putfive or six or seven bicyclists
in one place, and and uheverybody pays like maybe I
don't know, 25, 30, 40, 50 bucksfor a bed, and it works out
(38:49):
really well, share meals.
So if you go up there with agroup and find a larger place,
you'll it'll be inexpensive.
Tom Butler (38:56):
Yeah, I'm guessing dining, there's just everything
up there.
Dave Brengelmann (38:59):
Yeah.
I mean my favorite is uh littleMexican place right by uh the
supermarket, but there are twogrocery stores, and and it seems
like a lot of us would justprefer to get a place with a
kitchen and and cook.
But yeah, there's great placesto dine, and it's not too
crowded in the summer.
(39:21):
There are so many events andyou know, festivals, events to
enjoy throughout the summer.
So maybe go up there duringcrankworks and see some of the
best, well, see the mountainbiking Olympics, so to speak,
and you'll still find a placeand it won't be too expensive.
Tom Butler (39:40):
Nice.
You mentioned in the wintertimepeople flock from all over the
world to ski there.
Uh from what you're describing,it seems like it should have
that kind of enthusiasm as amountain biking place.
It does.
Dave Brengelmann (39:57):
Festivals like Crankworks, for example,
attract athletes from all overthe world.
The labor situation in Whistleris such that there's a ton of
Australians.
So anytime you go, you'll runinto Australians, many of them
are local.
But I have found that there arepeople from all over the world,
(40:19):
including many Latinos fromCentral and South America.
So it's a wonderful, you know,diverse environment.
Everybody's there for the samereason because they love
mountain biking.
Again, most of the people arein the park, but road bikers and
you know the folks like me thatmight want more of an
adventure.
You don't find me in the park.
You might find me on thedessert platter.
(40:40):
If I if allow me to talk aboutone run, it's a spicy blue.
Now, let me back up for aminute.
If you have any questions, gointo the bike shops and talk to
the guys, support the bikeshops, right?
And after you've made apurchase, ask them about where
the bike is.
And I shop at this place calledFanatical up there because
(41:00):
there's two independent shopsand they're the specialized
dealer.
I'm a specialized guy, but theyrecommended the dessert
platter.
And I'm thinking, what is this?
But all the runs are namedafter dessert.
So you start with a piece ofcake, right?
A piece of cake is not a pieceof cake.
Then you have salted caramel.
You see why it's called saltedcaramel, because the loamy
(41:21):
single track has all these bigsharp boulders in it, like salt,
big chunks of salt.
And then there's green jello,and I'm I'm giving them in the
wrong order, but the dessertplatter is one of the great
spicy blue networks that runsthat you can do.
So it's spicy blue climbing,followed by uh really enjoyable
(41:43):
descents.
Tom Butler (41:44):
That's awesome.
That's that's really fun.
I love these trail names.
I I live in it.
Is there anywhere in the worldthat you'd like to take your
mountain bike to?
Dave Brengelmann (41:55):
Well, I have a daughter that lives in Grand
Junction, so I am fortunate tobe able to uh you know tell my
wife, you know, sorry, honey, II gotta go visit the daughter
and jump in my uh house back andthrow the mountain bike on back
and and mountain bike frombasically whistler to Moab.
And I gotta tell you, you know,I I'd love to get back to Moab
(42:20):
because the slick rock is such aunique adventure.
Additionally, they just openedup many of the trails to
e-bikes.
Common sense has prevailed, soyou can ride the whole
enchilada.
Uh, I think it's 26 milesdownhill or something crazy like
that, on an e-bike.
But yeah, so I'd like to getback to Colorado, but some of
the highlights are the 18 roadtrails out of Fruta, for
(42:44):
example.
There's a wonderful flow trail.
I think one of my favorite runsI've been to is the Loom Trail
in Lake Tahoe.
I I think it's underconstruction or maintenance
right now, so you can't ride it.
But I'd like to get back thereand then, of course, back to
Mount St.
Helens, because that's gotta beone of the most incredible
(43:05):
rides on the planet.
You know, you're halfway up thevolcano in these beautiful
fields.
Uh, but it is not for thetimid.
There's one section that couldhave dire consequences if you
slip or fall.
You would do not ride it.
You walk your bike on thatsection unless you're completely
(43:25):
crazy.
But if you fall, you're lost.
You're gone.
Wow.
So be careful out there.
Tom Butler (43:31):
Are you familiar with the Great Divide mountain
bike route?
Dave Brengelmann (43:34):
Yeah, a little.
Yeah.
Friends aspire to do it.
Uh, I'm more familiar withCross Washington.
I don't know if your listenersknow about Cross Washington, but
I have quite a few friends thathave ridden from the coast to
Idaho.
And uh, I don't know the exact,and maybe it's 700 miles and
70,000 vert, but it's a singletrack right across Washington
(43:58):
State.
And I challenge any mountainbikers to do that.
I like one particular sectionof it, the Olympic Adventure
Trail.
Have you heard of that, Tom?
I have not.
Well, you got the DiscoveryTrail and the Adventure Trail,
right?
Okay.
Discovery Trail, everybodyknows about that.
I'm sure you guys have talkedabout it before, but the
adventure trail basically goesfrom Port Angeles to the lake.
(44:19):
So you can, we're talking aboutCrescent, right?
So you can ride that trail,which is single track, again, 25
miles or whatever, get to thelake, go to the Devil's Punch
Bowl and jump off the cliff intothe lake, and then you can ride
road back.
But that is part of the crossWashington.
But you know, kudos to uh allthe riders because they are
(44:44):
incredible.
It's self-support.
So you ride across Washington,you might find dinner in a
convenience store, or maybethere's some trail angels.
These riders are incredible.
You know, it it starts, I thinkit's very early spring or late
winter.
It's basically when the tunnelup at Hayek opens up.
(45:06):
So these guys all hope that thetunnel opens up so they can
ride through there because uhthat is the best route.
But I would encourage yourlisteners to look in that route
if they're very serious aboutbike packing and then they have
a good sense of adventure aboutthem.
So sorry to to take the subjectfrom the the what is it, the
Great Divide.
(45:26):
Uh my sites are just morelocal.
Tom Butler (45:29):
Well, I like it.
I but it it seems like youwould have the time to maybe
take on the Great Divide orsections of the Great Divide.
And I have heard that that's aspecial route.
Dave Brengelmann (45:41):
That sounds fantastic, and more power to
anybody that is interested indoing that.
I think I I prefer to have uhyou know a warm shower and uh uh
an Airbnb or a hotel or theback of my outfat than sleeping
in the dirt surrounded bywildlife.
Tom Butler (45:59):
I'm gonna change gears a little bit here because
I I as I talked about, you didspend some time in Japan.
There is a famous bike ride inJapan, and I I don't know if
you've heard about it, but it'sit's 70 kilometers.
It crosses six islands in theSeto Island Sea.
(46:20):
I'm gonna have a hard time herewith names connecting Hanshu
and the Shikoku Islands.
Okay.
Are you familiar with that?
Honshu and Shikoku, sure.
It talks about the route asbeing well marked with
designated cycling paths onbridges, and it's accessible to
various fitness levels, and itsays it does have some hills.
(46:43):
To me, some of the the picturesuh of that route just look
really cool.
And I'm wondering if you'veever heard of that uh ride at
all.
Dave Brengelmann (46:56):
I've never heard of that ride, but it
sounds fantastic to be in ruralareas or depend on a bike.
It'll be fantastic.
You know, everybody's so nice.
The drivers are excellent, andso less likely to hit you food
is fantastic.
So kudos to anybody.
But you've piqued my interest,but I first have to uh go to
(47:16):
Hokkaido to get some skiing donebefore I jump on a bike.
Tom Butler (47:20):
Gotcha.
Well, I think the name of it, II'm gonna try to say the name
of it here.
It's Shimonami Kaido.
Yes, Shimonami Kaido.
And so I would be veryinterested to hear from anybody
that's done it.
And it's I I think it's I'mgonna put that on my list of one
of those things to do somedaybecause it it looks pretty cool.
Dave Brengelmann (47:42):
I might be there with you.
You can cycle from Hunshu toShikoku on a 70-kilometer bike
ride route.
It does look stunning.
Tom Butler (47:52):
Well, I'll keep you on the list of people that might
be interested in doing itsomeday.
Dave Brengelmann (47:56):
I am very interested.
I am very interested.
And at least you'll have oneperson in your group who's
fluent in Japanese.
Tom Butler (48:04):
Then nice.
I love it.
Before we wrap this up, I wantto ask you about knee surgery.
Uh, you recently had kneesurgery, and and talk to me
about how that's impacting yourcycling, what your view on the
future is, things like that.
Dave Brengelmann (48:22):
I can speak to you about health after three
knee surgeries.
I've skied all my life, and Ifigure once you hit about a
million moguls, your knees arejust shot.
But the wonderful thing aboutcycling, you know, it doesn't
matter if it's mountain bikingor gravel or road, is it brings
us back to health.
After mountain biking, evene-mountain biking, I have been
(48:46):
more fit aerobically than I everhave in my life.
You know, you know, growing upa doughboy, maybe being 185
pounds for most of my adultlife, you know, with kids and
all that, it's complicated.
Yeah, I mean, not complicated,that's just what happens.
But now at 175 pounds, thanksto fitness.
(49:07):
But after my most recent kneesurgery, I haven't been able to
be on a bike.
Actually, tomorrow or the nextday, I'll finally get on a bike.
Uh, so I've gained four or fivepounds just doing the
inactivity.
So I'm dying to get back out onthat bike.
But anybody who's faced withhealth challenges, I just
encourage them to get on a bike,even consider an e-bike.
(49:29):
You can dial it in.
You know, Tom, I would guessthat when you're biking,
sometimes you're at 140heartbeats a minute or 160, and
you're pushing it, that's great,right?
But you know, if you want tolose fat and be fit, you're fine
at 110, 120, 130 beats perminute.
So get an e-bike and you'restill working hard.
(49:51):
Like that earlier, I talkedabout the dessert tracks, uh,
you know, up at Worcester.
I was checking my heart rate,and it's like 160 beats per
minute, and I'm on an e-bike,right?
Or comfortably in almost thesame wave.
We're we're just workingharder.
But again, with an e-bike, youcan dial it back.
You know, look at the researchif aerobic activities at a lower
(50:13):
heart rate end up with uh morefat loss and uh in shape.
So it's getting my knees backinto shape.
Tom Butler (50:20):
Well, I think that's a fantastic point.
The fat that we have aroundorgans, that's really bad fat,
you know, and so to be doing anactivity like what you're
saying, and at a low enoughintensity that you're burning
fat, for a lot of people, thatis gonna be like a number one
(50:42):
thing that they can do in orderto achieve better metabolic
function is to be burning offthat fat that is around their
organs.
And that that's the way it wasfor me.
You know, it was interruptingmy ability to function
metabolically, and so that lowintensity stuff, you know, going
out and doing that, that's whenyou burn the fat.
(51:04):
And so uh it's a it's a greatpoint.
And that's why I'm a big fan ofe-bikes for two reasons.
One is that you have thatability to dial it to where you
need it to be for your fitnessgoals, and the other thing is
it's great if you haven't beenout on a bike for a long time,
(51:24):
it's a great way to start, youknow, especially if you're in an
area where you're around a lotof hills, it's a great way to
get back on a bike.
So I'm for it.
Dave Brengelmann (51:35):
Anyone considering the mountain bike
purchase, just don't buy amountain bike that has a
throttle.
Because then you will not bepeddling.
Good feedback.
Even me, my wife and I rentedbikes in California, class
three, right?
Up to 27 miles an hour withthrottle.
And you know, you you're beinggood for the first mile, but
then you just you just hit thatthrottle and enjoy the ride.
(51:59):
And uh, if I had a throttle onmy e-bike, I would be uh 200
pounds.
Yeah, gotcha, gotcha.
Tom Butler (52:05):
Dave, thank you so much for joining me.
This was great.
And I, you know, I have to behonest, I'm not ready to go out
and buy a mountain bike yet, butI'm definitely going to have
to, you know, and I'm in a greatarea to do this.
I'm I'm gonna have to uh findsomeplace, rent one, and you
know, and try it and add that tokind of my cycling experiences.
Dave Brengelmann (52:29):
Well, I promise you, once you do that,
your podcast will be mountainbiking over 60 instead of
cycling over 60.
But I got to put in a plug forthe Evergreen Mountain Biking
Society.
We have a local organizationthat takes care of our trails
here.
They also advocate for mountainbiking.
You go over to the Kit SapPeninsula, for example, and and
(52:52):
ride the Pork Gamble Trails, andyou see what they have done.
So anybody considering mountainbiking, I would encourage them
to look online for thisorganization and either
volunteer to help build trailsor donate to the pause.
Tom Butler (53:07):
Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance is Evergreen
Mountain Biking Alliance.
Yeah, good people.
Again, thanks so much, Dave,and uh good luck on your
recovery.
I'm glad you're close tojumping on a bike again.
I hope uh it all goes smoothly.
Dave Brengelmann (53:24):
Thank you very much, Tom.
It's been a pleasure to behere.
Tom Butler (53:35):
One of the things I like most about what Dave talked
about is that he stays away forthe most part from the mountain
bike park.
If you look for mountain bikingon the Whistler tourism site,
you get images of the park.
I can see how I would have beenattracted to the experience 40
years ago.
But for me now, I really wantto make a trip to Whistler to
experience the trails outsidethe park.
(53:57):
I would absolutely love to dothe RBC Grandfundo Whistler, but
7,500 feet of elevation gainjust sounds too much for me.
Of course, I'm doing things nowthat I never thought I would,
so maybe I have 7,500 feet ofclimbing in me.
But I have some other rides,like 5,411 feet on the ride the
hurricane to conquer, before Ido the Whistler Grandfondo.
(54:19):
Whistler is a good example ofsomething I would like to plan
out far enough so that we canmake it a cycling or 60 group
ride.
I'm just beginning to thinkmore about how to bring people
together for rides.
I see the Tour de Cure on May2nd of next year as a perfect
opportunity to get peopletogether.
I expect this to be a blast.
Please consider coming out forthat ride.
And please, please sign up nowif you think you will make it
(54:41):
next spring.
I have a lot to plan, and Ineed to know really early how
many will make it.
If you do sign up now and youcan't make it in the spring,
remember it is just a $30donation that goes to help the
American Diabetes Association.
So it isn't money wasted.
I hope you have some robustfenders on your bike.
If you are seeing winterweather where you are, hopefully
(55:02):
you have all the gear to makecycling in the rain of race.
And remember, eight is just agear change.
So I'm starting off this week by focusing on my
search for a gravel bike.
I need a different bike thatwill serve three functions.
One is to ride on gravel, thesecond is to do the bike
camping, and finally, I thinkthe same bike can handle cycle
cross racing.
I'm gonna bring you along as Igo through the process of
finding a new bike.
(00:43):
I've got a ton of questionsabout what bike is right for me.
I'm expecting it's gonna take awhile to find just the right
bike, and I'm not sure where thejourney will take me, but I'm
bringing you along.
Here is my first segment ofthat search.
I'm in my car in the parkinglot outside Northwest Tryon
Bike, and I'm beginning mysearch for a gravel bike.
(01:10):
So I just have a simple thingI'm trying to figure out today,
and that's how do I determinewhat I want as far as frame
dimensions?
I really like the way that myspecialized reb feels.
Can I just try to duplicatethat the frame dimension on a
(01:32):
gravel bike, or do I need to bethinking about a gravel bike
frame differently?
So this is step one.
Uh I don't know how many stepsit'll be, but the first step
here is to get a handle ongetting a gravel bike that'll
fit me.
So here we go.
I'm back in the car after mydiscussions at Northwest Try and
(02:00):
Bike, and uh I'm surprised tosay that my search for a gravel
bike is over.
So there was this was not along process.
We got talking about a specificbike.
Uh, it just like checked offall the boxes, boxes I didn't
(02:22):
even know were gonna be boxes,long discussion, and so I'm
done.
So that was fast.
Stay tuned.
I'll be giving more details onwhat I chose, why I chose it,
and all that stuff.
And I am really excited.
Yeah, sometimes things don't goexactly as planned.
(02:45):
I never imagined that I wouldbe able to walk into the closest
bike shop to me and have thefirst bike we talked about be
perfect.
But that is what happened, andthat makes the journey I was
going to bring you along on wayshorter than I expected.
I'm not sharing the details ofthe bike here, I'll save that
for a whole episode.
But I'm excited to reveal whatI chose and go through all the
(03:08):
reasons why I made the choices Imade.
It might take a few weeks toget the bike in my hands, and
I'll talk about it as soon as Ican.
I can share something else thatis new.
I'm not as excited about thisas the new bike, but I'm still
pretty pumped about it, which isa terrible pun because I want
to share some information on mynew bike pump.
Several months ago Iparticipated in my first
(03:30):
Kickstarter campaign.
I pre-purchased a Zilch floorpump.
It's sold by a company namedRadian.
I've never liked standard floorpumps.
The bond trigger pump I have isdifficult to get connected
fully to the stem.
For some reason, I frequentlysmack my thumb when I'm
disengaging the nozzle from thestem.
My dissatisfaction with thebond trigger meant that I was
(03:53):
attracted to the message aboutthe zilch.
They say, quote, the zilch headfinally makes it easy for
anyone to fill their bike tires,end quote.
I've never really heard manypeople complaining, but I felt
like Zilch understood me.
They go on to say that theZilch has an award-winning
proprietary seal design.
What I saw was enough for me tospend $105 to get one.
(04:15):
Like with a lot of Kickstarterthings, I had to wait a good
amount of time to finally getthe pump.
But I am really happy with it.
The head is a lot like what youwould find on a plastic spray
bottle, except a lot beefier.
You put the nozzle over thestem and squeeze the trigger to
seal it.
When you're done inflating thetire, you squeeze the trigger
again and it releases.
(04:36):
It did take me a little bit todo it right, but probably for
most people it should be easy tooperate.
My only complaint is that thepressure indication dial is not
as good as on the Bond Traeger.
Now there is an option for moremoney to get a digital display.
I probably would have donethat, but I don't think it was
an option when I bought mine.
I do want to find an accuratepressure gauge at some point,
(04:57):
just to make sure that I cantrust the pressure indicator on
the Zilch.
You can still get the pump for$105, but the normal price is
listed as $130.
It's currently on sale.
The website is radianusa.com,and I'll put that link in the
show notes.
Well and that's the thing forthis update.
I don't think I will do anymore cyclocrust racing this
(05:20):
year.
I just don't think my bike isadequate for it.
That is especially true giventhe fact that I think cyclocrust
courses are getting more andmore challenging because of the
rain here in the northwest now.
That means I have a good bit oftime to train for my next race.
One thing I will be focused onis how to get more power when
racing.
During my first race, my heartrate was as high as I can
(05:42):
sustain it.
But that didn't translate topower as compared to what I put
out at the same heart rate levelon the road or on the indoor
trainer.
I'll be sharing with youeverything I learned from my
conversation with people aboutgetting more power.
Fortunately, I've got an accessto a coach in John Butler, and
I'll be working with the team atPhysician Coach on kind of the
(06:05):
physiology aspect of it.
One thing I want to do beforenext fall is convince some
Cycling Over 60 listeners tojoin me at a cyclecross race
here in the Seattle area.
So if that's you, reach out andlet me know you're interested.
I've only been to Whistler,British Columbia once.
(06:28):
It was in the summertime.
Kelly and I went up a long timeago for a timeshare
presentation before I knew howmiserable timeshare
presentations are.
We felt like it was one of themost beautiful places in the
Northwest, but for some reasonwe haven't been back.
One thing is that we aren'tsnowskiers.
To be more accurate, I'm not asnow skier, and Kelly's needs
have made it difficult for herto ski.
(06:50):
But I often think about goingback for a visit.
When Dave Brenkelman emailed meabout biking in Whistler, I was
instantly interested in gettinghim on the podcast.
Dave is a mountain biker, andI'm always hesitant to talk
about mountain biking because Isecretly don't want to like it.
I fear open the door to need tobuy yet another bike.
Dave brings the perspective ofsomeone who really enjoys
(07:11):
getting out in the forest on abike, and I'm so glad he came
on.
Here is our conversation.
It is a pleasure to introducelisteners to Dave Brengelman.
Thank you, Dave, for joining metoday.
Dave Brengelmann (07:22):
Thank you for the invitation.
It's an honor to be here.
Tom Butler (07:25):
There are some exceptional outdoor recreation
locations around, and todaywe're going to get into one.
But to start the conversation,talk about your first experience
with the bicycle.
Dave Brengelmann (07:37):
My first experience with a bike, I
suppose that's the U District inSeattle.
I grew up on Pratt Row.
My father worked in healthsciences.
As a kid, the University ofWashington was my playground.
And later, I guess I wouldcommute to my dad's lab to do
homework.
So I was always riding aroundthe alleys of the U District.
(07:57):
You know, we're talking back inthe Ted Bundy days, right?
Riding my bike down to healthsciences and just riding around
the University of Washington,especially in the summer when
there was nobody around.
So I really enjoyed growing upand having both the UW and the
Green Lake as a playground and aplace to ride my bike.
Tom Butler (08:14):
That image it brings up to me is a kid being able to
be independent and being ableto make decisions about where
you're going.
You're not stuck in a car,you're kind of out and about.
And I love that image.
Dave Brengelmann (08:28):
Yeah, I think as bikers, we all have a sense
of freedom, right?
And as an adolescent, it'sespecially nice to, I suppose,
jump on the Burk Gilman and ridefor miles to get away.
So it is freedom and uhindependence that makes it
really nice.
Tom Butler (08:45):
Now, have you stayed active all your life?
Dave Brengelmann (08:48):
Yeah, pretty much.
I've been an active skier.
You know, we have ski areasjust 90 minutes away from
Seattle.
And I haven't been a biker allmy life, but skiing and boating
and hiking and running, I guess.
So I've been pretty active.
But I have to say, uh, when Istarted cycling, I I became much
more active and much more fitlater in life.
Tom Butler (09:09):
Uh, did you have a bike and you used it every once
in a while, or was it reallykind of a period where you were
not on a bicycle?
Dave Brengelmann (09:16):
Well, let's see.
Had an office next to GreenLake and no bike.
A co-worker sold me a bike for400 bucks.
And I started riding aroundGreen Lake in the morning.
And then a buddy from the gymchallenged me to do the Seattle
to Portland bike ride.
And like many of us in Seattle,that's a bucket list item,
(09:38):
right?
So I started training in uhJanuary, maybe 10 years ago, for
the STP and did the ride.
Now, you know, I've got fiveSTPs and numerous cascade rides
behind me.
I got a shout out to thatorganization.
As you know, they are fantasticfor anybody getting into
biking.
(09:58):
You know, I'll teach you how totrain for a 200-mile bike ride.
And many of us, our firstcentury ride, first hundred-mile
ride is flying wheels in theSnoqualmie Valley.
So that SDP got me hooked onbiking, changed my life, had a
sailboat up until that point,got rid of the boat and started
biking on the weekends.
Tom Butler (10:17):
Well, you talked about Green Lake, and for people
that aren't in the area, it isa freshwater lake that's kind of
north of Seattle a little bit,north of downtown Seattle a
little bit.
And it's got a trail around it.
It's a pretty busy and prettypopular place to get outdoors.
Dave Brengelmann (10:36):
Yeah, all times of the year, dreary days,
sunny days.
There's people out on GreenLake.
And recently they, even thoughbikes are permitted in the inner
ring, so to speak, they have anouter ring that's bikes only.
It's protected bike lane, soit's a fantastic place to go,
especially this time of year inthe autumn when the leaves are
(10:56):
changing.
Tom Butler (10:57):
Have you experienced cycling outside the U.S.?
I I think that I read that youlived in Japan.
Is that right?
Dave Brengelmann (11:04):
That's correct.
I lived in Japan, so I used todrive, I used to ride a junker
from my apartment to the trainstation.
But aside from that, it mighthave been renting a bike for a
day in China or Vietnam.
And of course, having donethat, I I got a shout out to all
those guys who who are doingtours over there because it'd be
(11:24):
fantastic to go to Vietnam fora week or two, or Japan, or
Cambodia, or Malaysia.
And I'm sure there are manyexperts who would be glad to be
on your podcast to talk aboutthat.
Tom Butler (11:35):
Let's talk about mountain biking.
You're a marketing guy, so sellme on mountain biking for
cyclists over 60 because I'venot taken that up.
Now, one thing is you know, Idon't need another form of
biking to have to buy a bike todo, but um, but sell me on
(11:56):
mountain biking for cyclistsover 60.
Dave Brengelmann (12:00):
Uh, that's a good one.
All I gotta say is you gotta doit.
You know, I think it's anevolution from road to gravel to
mountain, or maybe road tomountain.
But riding on the road is sodangerous, right?
I mean, granted, mountainbiking is dangerous too.
You can get hurt, but it'swithin your control.
(12:21):
But road biking, you never knowif you're gonna get hit by a
distracted driver.
People are killed, right?
So safety is one thing, but Ithink what it is for me, with a
mountain bike, you get to seethese incredible views.
And I just have I think onemountain bike trip to a place
(12:45):
like the plains of Abraham andMount St.
Helens would turn you into amountain biker for a for life
because you are in a sea ofwildflowers or the number two
canyon over in Wenatchee whenthe wildflowers are out.
I mean, you can if you're on aroad, you're looking at asphalt
and yellow lines and curves.
(13:06):
But if you're in a sea ofwildflowers and looking at Mount
Rainier or Mount St.
Helens or Mount Baker, itreally doesn't get any better
than that.
Although, maybe with roadbiking, start your mountain
riding up the passes we havelocally.
You can get up to the SunriseVisitor Center without cars, or
Artist, is it Artist Point orArtist Ridge at Mount Baker
(13:30):
without cars?
You can get to Hurricane Ridgewithout cars.
That is some of the best roadbiking that we have in the
Pacific Northwest.
Tom Butler (13:38):
And my failed attempt to ride across
Washington State.
I was on roads that weren't,you know, it wasn't free of
cars, you know, so there wasthat element.
But there is something aboutexperiencing the natural world
on a bicycle and on the speed ofcycling that I find to be
(13:59):
really unique.
And so you're probably right,you know, to have uh one of
those experiences uh where I'mthinking you can get out there
without a lot of people around.
You know, if you're out ridingwith a group of people, you're
maybe with people, but I'mthinking you can get out to some
of these areas where therearen't a lot of people around
and just experience that on theuh speed of cycling.
(14:22):
That sounds pretty attractiveto me.
Dave Brengelmann (14:25):
Yeah, but I mean, admit it, you road bikers,
sorry, you road bikers are justaddicted to endorphins.
I've been there, right?
An eight-hour ride, uh 10-hourride on a road bike is such a
great high, for lack of a betterword.
It's just that endorphin rush.
(14:46):
And there's something to that.
But while you're having, I lovethis, you know, me versus you
guys, right?
You guys are out there havingyour power bars and your goo.
I'm sitting on some mountaintopwith a sandwich, right?
As a matter of fact, recently Ihave an e-bike, all right.
I'm sorry, I'm a center.
I have an e-mountain bike, andI was on my e mountain bike with
(15:10):
on a gravel ride up by Hayek,Snowqualming Pass, and we were
at mile 50, maybe, and myfriends were all huffing and
puffing, and I decided to openmy basket on the way up a hill
and start feeding on some olivesand cheese and offering it to
my friends, right?
They were so mad.
(15:30):
But mountain biking is thatit's it's so nice to be out and
see these incredible remoteplaces that we have around the
state.
Tom Butler (15:44):
Well, I think the the truth of the matter is the
bicycle is not just one thing.
You know, the bicycle ismultiple things.
And there are times when I'mout for a ride, and the bicycle
is just a device for me to pushmyself physically.
And there's other times whenI'm out with my family and it's
(16:06):
a device for me to experiencethe environment, and I'm not
pushing myself physically atall.
You know, there's times whenthe bike is a way to get through
a city and not have to dealwith a car.
That's what I love about thebicycle.
And what's so intriguing to me,and what just sucks me into the
(16:26):
bicycle, is it's not just one.
You're describing an aspect ofthe bicycle that is a fantastic
aspect.
Dave Brengelmann (16:36):
Well, at the same time, it's nice to jump on
the bike.
I live in North Seattle, veryclose to Edmonds.
It's nice to jump on the bikeand go into town and maybe grab
a beer or two.
So just as a mode oftransportation, it's fantastic.
And then around the Seattlearea, it doesn't matter if you
have a mountain bike or a gravelbike or road bike, the way this
(16:56):
our city was set up in theearly days by the landscape
architecture firm, right?
The Olmsted Brothers, there'sso many great places to take a
bike.
For example, Interlocken,right?
And Capitol Hill and the Ravineand Cowan Park and Ravenna Park
and Lake Washington Boulevard.
(17:17):
These were all designed, paidfor by our early city founders,
and any kind of bike, it doesn'tmatter what you have, we'll get
you to those places.
Tom Butler (17:27):
Yeah, and so I'll take a moment to promote, you
know, come out to Seattle andride.
Um, if you're hearing this inMay, book a trip, be here May
2nd, and uh you can ride withus, the tour to cure, and then
also experience some of theseother great places to ride
around.
So uh put that on your calendarand start making plans to come
(17:48):
out and join us.
Dave Brengelmann (17:49):
I'd love that May 2nd.
I'll be there.
Tom Butler (17:51):
So talk about your journey to find a bike.
Dave Brengelmann (17:55):
Well, back to the STP.
You don't really need anythingfancy, you don't need to go and
buy a $4,500 bike or a $5,000bike if you're gonna do a
century or two centuries on aweekend.
I started again with a $400urban cruiser that I did my
(18:16):
first century on, you know, anold specialized.
But from there, I mean, youknow, year or two, I I upgraded
to a um a Cannondale.
Fortunately, that was rippedoff in Granville Island up in
Vancouver, another great placeto ride.
Vancouver, BC, up in Canada.
Insurance took care of anupgrade for me, so I upgraded to
Le Bay, and that is themountain, the mountain climbing
(18:42):
road bike for you know MountRainier and Mount Baker, right?
And Hurricane Ridge.
At that point, you know, mostof my friends were riding
gravel, and I it was time to buya bike.
And I'm thinking, what do whatdo I got to get?
A $6,500 diverge or what tokeep up with all these bike
packers.
And I thought, well, you know,an e-mountain bike can do gravel
(19:07):
and it can do mountain and itcan do roads.
So I ended up buying aspecialized Levo SL, a super
light mountain bike.
And for those who areinterested in mountain bikes,
there's such a plethora ofoptions today.
And there's class one, two,three.
We don't need to get into that,but just in class ones, the
ones that'll give you a littlebump into 20 miles an hour, you
(19:28):
have super light mountain bikesand you have, you know, these
big tanks.
I bought a super light mountainbike that's 38 pounds, and it
makes for a graph, a greatgravel ride.
I've put a little bit skinniertires on there, and I'll go out
and do a 60-mile gravel ridewith friends or use that as an
urban cruiser.
(19:48):
It's perfectly adequate to havea super light bike with a
smaller motor.
You just have to work harderand it'll keep you a little more
fit.
Now I'm at a point where uh I'mstarting to ride with a
different group of guys, motoguys, who you know, these guys
all grew up on motorcycles andthey're about going fast.
And so I ended up with a newspecialized turbo Livo 4, and
(20:11):
it's got so much power, it youknow, you end up doing wheelies
when you're going uphill.
It's dangerous, it'sunnecessary.
So uh anyway, start if you'rejust starting in mountain
biking, I encourage encourageyou to look at a super light
bike.
Tom Butler (20:25):
I think that's probably something to try to
rent someplace.
I imagine you could go out andrent one of those and to give it
a try out someplace.
Do you know if that's the case?
Dave Brengelmann (20:36):
I know we'll be talking about Whistler later,
but if you go up to a placelike Whistler, there are five or
six different stores, and theyhave every kind of bike you can
imagine.
So you can try a super lightbike, which is going to be
around 38, 37 pounds, or you cantry a standard mountain bike,
which is gonna be closer to 60pounds.
Tom Butler (20:58):
Well, you mentioned Whistler, and so you reached
out, you were talking aboutbeing a fan of Whistler
Blackcomb in British Columbia.
And first, just talk about likethe environment there.
What's it like?
What's the countryside like?
Dave Brengelmann (21:15):
There's a common expression at Whistler.
Everybody knows Whistler forthe great winter activities,
right?
People go there for the winter,but they stay there for the
summer.
You have one of the world'sbest, well, we'll just say the
world's best bike park, right?
The best bike park on theplanet, and it's got everything,
(21:36):
right?
It's got everything.
But I'm not here to talk aboutthe bike park today, because
what I think is so special aboutWhistler are the 200 miles of
trails outside of the park.
So go up and enjoy the park,you know, spend an arm and a leg
on a ticket, but be up therefor a week and then just start
(21:59):
sampling the trail network.
There's two I want to talkabout today the village trail
network, which is all asphalt,it's great for road riding, and
then the mountain bikingnetwork.
So in the valley, you have Ithink it's close to 30, 40 miles
uh road riding, and there'sfour lakes.
(22:22):
So you can you can ride arounda different lake or all the
lakes, but the best riding is inis in the hills.
And so you're pulling intoWhistler, and imagine looking to
your left and looking to yourright.
There's a little town called alittle area called Function
Junction on the way in.
From Function Junction all theway to Pemberton, there's places
(22:46):
to mountain bike on both sidesof the valley, and there's
anything you want.
There's spicy blue, there'sgreen.
You know, most people startwith the Lost Lake Trails, also
known as the Zappa Trails.
Have you heard of those?
Tom Butler (23:00):
No.
Dave Brengelmann (23:01):
Well, I'm not a Zappa fan, but I can tell you
that the guy that built theZappa Trails was a fan.
So you go into this area, it'sall by Lost Lake, and you'll
find Pinocchio's furniture andToads of the Short Forest, and
treacherous Creekens, and MuffinMen, and Central Scrutinizer,
(23:24):
and Johnny Can't Read.
And you look in their oldZappa's followings.
But nice, that's a great placeto start your mountain biking
journey.
So rent a bike in town and thentry the Lost Lake Trails.
There are green trails and bluetrails, and there's black,
they're black trails.
They're all very wellmaintained by the city and
they're very well marked.
You know, you you shouldprobably have uh trail forks so
(23:48):
you can uh know your way aroundbecause you will get lost in the
lost lake trails.
But there's a there's a trailtrail that well basically takes
you to the sea to sky, sea tosky, not the sea to sky highway,
but the sea to sky trail.
You can find a bike trail allthe way basically from Squamish
(24:08):
to Pemberton.
So from Squamish to Whistler toPemberton, there's there might
be 10 or 15 miles you have toride on the road, but there's
great riding all throughout theregion.
So you have the Was LakeTrails.
I'll just say if you're firstgoing to Whistler, I recommend
you take the green trails toGreen Lake and check up the
(24:30):
spin.
Tom Butler (24:32):
So when you're talking about green trails, is
that a signification ofdifficulty?
Dave Brengelmann (24:39):
Yes, it's not, they're all environmentally
very green, I am sure.
But yeah, just like uh skiing,green, blue, and black and
double black.
And I tell you, it's it's alittle bit different.
If you are used to the Seattlemountain biking scene, you know,
you'll ride a blue or you'llride a green or a black.
Up there, they're very spicy.
(24:59):
So if you can imagine a spicyblue is like a black.
And if you talk to anybody inSquamish and you ask them, you
know, what should I ride?
I'm like an intermediatewriter, and they'll send you on
a blue.
Well, that blue is going toscare you a little bit.
Here's an example of a blue.
You're coming up on a on ahill, a crest of a hill, and
there's some rocks you have tonavigate, and then you go over
(25:23):
the top, and it's like, oh mygoodness, I'll just say that.
There's like an elevator shaftyou have to go down.
And that's a blue run, right?
And there's there's no lookingback.
You you need to be anexperienced rider if you're
gonna ride blues in squamish,and we'll sort of a little bit
easier.
I would encourage you to take aprogression.
(25:44):
So start on the greens and thenand then just evolve up to the
blacks, and and in a coupleyears you'll be riding
comfortably numb in the uh inthe area, which is really scary.
But uh anyway, that's it.
Tom Butler (26:00):
I would be more than happy, I think, with staying on
greens as much as I can.
Dave Brengelmann (26:06):
Good thing for you is so you're traveling with
an expert, you can be on thegreen, and the blues run
parallel, they're just up forbill.
And they might have somebridges and they might have some
drops, but you can run along onyour green and you're just
fine, and the blues caneventually come back and meet
the green.
So the lost lake trails, that'sone of the beautiful things.
(26:27):
Now, what I would probablyrecommend, I'm gonna mention my
favorite spot, although Ishouldn't give away the secret.
Let me just say that up in upin Canada, maybe it's a little
less litigious, maybe the peopleare nicer, but they allow
mountain bikes on some of thebest hiking trails.
There's a hiking trail thatgoes to Lake Chickamas.
(26:50):
Lake Chickamas is just up theriver from Function Junction, so
you can ride or shuttle up tothe trailhead and then ride your
mountain bike or hike to LakeChickamas.
And you get up to the lake, andit's this green, glacial, silk,
(27:11):
emerald, beautiful lake, andthere aren't too many people
out.
You share the trail withhikers, so you gotta be really
careful.
And I just worry that someoneis gonna ruin it for us all, and
eventually they will not allowbikers because down here in the
United States, we wouldn't allowmountain bikers on such a
(27:32):
trail.
Tom Butler (27:33):
What is the etiquette there?
How how do you handle havinghikers on the same trail?
Dave Brengelmann (27:38):
Well, I think it's good practice to have a
bear bell so they hear youcoming.
Actually, yes, the Canadiansthey think bear bells aren't
effective.
It's more of a dinner bell thana bear bell.
But at least uh you know I haveridden the local trails, like
we have a park right off of LakeWashington called St.
(27:59):
Edward's.
Great place for an afternoonride, but there's a lot of trail
runners, so you gotta let themknow you're coming.
And then, of course, everybodyelse has the right of way all
the time.
So when it comes to mountainbiking, and this is different
than road road biking, you gotto be ready to stop on a dime.
If you're following a rider,you're not gonna get a signal.
You know, when we road bike,we're on a cascade ride,
(28:22):
everybody's yelling, you know,car up, car back, you get
signals when you're moving inand out of lanes, not mountain
biking, you got to be ready tostop on a dime.
So the etiquette is yes,everybody else has the right of
way.
But if you approach anothermountain biker, the mountain
(28:42):
biker that is going uphill hasthe right of way.
And it seems like a lot ofpeople don't know that, so you
just gotta be careful.
If you're if you're goinguphill, you know, chugging
along, and someone's comingdown, whoever's coming down
should really just stop and pulloff on the side and let the
uphill rider proceed.
Tom Butler (29:04):
It's a well-known area, and I'm wondering about
crowds.
Do you do you find it to becrowded there?
Do you are there certain timesthat you wouldn't go up there?
What's your thoughts there?
Dave Brengelmann (29:15):
Well, if you're over 60 and retired,
you're biking Monday throughFriday and not spending too much
time on the weekends, but itdoes get crowded, and the Lost
Lake Trails are crowded withtourists, and they may be novice
riders.
So you have to take specialcare in the trails.
(29:35):
And they don't know that uphillriders have the right-of-way.
So you have to assume thateverybody's out there for a good
time and you don't want toscare them or dissuade them from
biking.
It's almost the same thing onour local trails.
The rail to trail here in theSeattle area, Burke Gilman,
right?
That was one of the firsttrails, first rail to trails
(29:58):
project in the United States.
States and many were designedafter that.
You know, this female's 15, andyou see families there and
people walking their dogs.
And I see uptight bikers, butthere should be no reason to be
cruising past people and scaringpeople or hitting people.
So mountain biking is the samething, but to answer your
(30:20):
question, yeah, bike on bikeduring the week and you won't
have uh much for crowds.
Early season, uh Whistler earlyseason is fantastic because you
can ride on the golf courses.
They're close to dog walkersbecause of the bears, you might
encounter some bears.
To be able to uh ride thosebeautiful grounds early in the
season is just fantastic.
(30:41):
There's just gorgeous.
So if Whistler get there earlyin the season, the same thing is
true for the bike park.
If you wait till the end of thesummer to get to the bike park,
the trails are not going to bein optimal condition.
They're going to be there'sgoing to be a lot of brake
bumps.
And any mountain biker knowswhat I'm talking about, right?
(31:01):
There's just it's almost awashboard-like surface where
people apply their brakes beforeturns, and uh little annoying.
Tom Butler (31:10):
So start early and have smooth riding.
So you talked about yourfavorite riding place, and uh go
into a little more detail.
What what the experience, likehow far would you go out?
What what's the environmentlike?
What's the trail like?
Talk a little bit more aboutthat.
Dave Brengelmann (31:30):
Right.
Let me take you on a run.
So we're gonna start atfunction junction.
We can park right at the bottomof the hill, really close to
the freeway.
The nice thing about functionjunction is there's coffee
shops, so you can start your daywith a cup of coffee and pastry
if you want, and maybe meetsome locals, right?
And that's another story, butit seems like every time you're
you're riding at what's ifyou're ever alone, you're never
(31:51):
alone because you're gonna meeta local and they're gonna tour
you all around.
But anyway, you start atfunction junction and climb up
the hill next to the river.
You can go up the road or youcan shuttle, but you know, the
best thing is to go up by theriver.
So you're going up the ChickmasRiver, and after maybe 40
minutes, 45 minutes of climbing,you're at the trailhead.
(32:12):
That's where the hikers start.
And that's the point whereyou'd shuttle if you wanted to.
So you you ride the basicallyit's a flat trail or a traverse,
there's some up and downs, nota lot of elevation.
But the beautiful thing is yougo from secondary growth to old
growth, and it's like a clearmarkation, and you know, because
(32:32):
all of a sudden in the summer,you know, you've you're in old
growth where there's a limitedcanopy and it's hot and it might
be buggy, but then you get tothe old growth, and it's
wonderfully cool and quiet, andthis it's got this loamy
surface.
So you travel that out to youtravel that out to the lake, you
get to the lake, maybe you passby three groups of hikers,
(32:53):
everybody's nice.
And then you have lunch at thelake.
You come back after lunch, andthen you've got four flow trails
that take you back to functionjunction.
And uh yeah, mountain bikersknow what I'm talking about,
flow trails.
It's just you don't even hardlyhave to hit your brakes, you
just effortlessly glide down thehill.
(33:15):
And yeah, there's some bridgesand there's some drops, but you
can roll everything.
And at the end of the ride,you're having a beer.
There's two great breweriesdown there.
I've got a favorite, but noplugs.
Uh, there's two breweries downthere, so you can get your IPA.
And then, like, this happens tome.
Then I meet a guy and he'slike, Oh, you want to uh ride
(33:36):
down to Bridal Vale Falls on theSea to Sky Highway?
Uh it's like, okay, I got somebattery left.
So I follow this guy, he'sprobably 70, 75.
Down the Sea to Sky Trail, itgoes over the bungee zone.
So bikes are allowed to crossthat bridge.
You might see some bungeejumpers, it's kind of neat.
(33:58):
And then you end up with theseincredible rock formations where
you're on basalt pillars,they're all hexagons, right?
And then there's you keep ongoing a little bit, and there's
this ancient labyrinth that wasbuilt by we'll say First Nations
people, and then you're atBrandy Wine Falls, and they have
(34:20):
these wonderful water poles.
Well, locally, we have snowquality poles, right?
You can ride our bikes in thesnowmobile.
This is different because youget to ride the sea to sky
mountain biking single track,rode all the way to the
waterfalls.
And in our case, we came upback up on the highway.
I didn't have much battery, andit was hot and it was horrible,
but I figured if the70-year-old guy could do it, I
(34:42):
could follow him up.
So you end up at functionjunction, and that's a day of
riding at Whistler.
Tom Butler (34:48):
Wow, that that does sound spectacular for sure.
You're focused here on mountainbiking, but I'm wondering if
somebody wanted to combine amountain biking trip with a road
trip or a gravel trip, wouldyou find all those options as
well in the area?
Dave Brengelmann (35:07):
Yeah, we just did that last month.
So there's a Whistler GrandFonda, and for all you roadies
out there, I challenge you toride from Vancouver to Whistler
in a day.
Tom Butler (35:18):
So what's the mileage on that?
Dave Brengelmann (35:20):
Oh, don't ask me.
I'll look it up.
I don't know the mileage onthat, but it is a solid century
with plenty of elevation, andconditions can be tough.
Tom Butler (35:30):
Well, I'm looking at this RBC Grand Fondo Whistler,
and it says that it's uh 122kilometers, which is 76 miles,
2300 meters of elevation, so7,500 feet of elevation.
So that's a pretty good chunkof elevation.
(35:52):
But man, what an adventure thatwould be for sure.
Dave Brengelmann (35:57):
And the nice thing is that uh there's a bike
link dedicated to that ride.
I you know, bless my friendsfor doing that, but I just have
no desire whatsoever.
Maybe I am too old at 62 tothink of a grand fondo, but more
power to them.
They're strong riders.
Tom Butler (36:16):
Now they do have a 55-kilometer route that starts
in Whistler Village and ends inWhistler Village, and that's uh
2,740 feet of elevation.
So that's 34 miles, 2,745 feetof elevation.
That wouldn't be bad.
(36:37):
That's that's doable.
Dave Brengelmann (36:39):
More power to you.
I'll be uh cracking a beer inPunction Junction watching go
by.
I gotta tell you, it was greatto be at the finish line because
I was up there for the wholeweek and to see the guys that
finished first.
They're just incredible,incredible athletes.
Tom Butler (36:57):
Yeah, I would imagine it's very hot.
Dave Brengelmann (37:00):
I had a bunch of friends that rode the Grand
Fonda and met me.
But as soon as they got up toWhistler, they ditched their
road bikes and got on mountainbikes, and we started on the
Lost Lake Trails, and we went upChicometas and we did the Sea
to Sky.
I gotta mention uh here'sanother secret.
One of the most beautifulplaces on the Sea to Sky bike
(37:22):
trail is Gord's Garden.
Now, Gordon is uh thebrainchild of the Sea to Sky
Highway, and there's a memorialtomb in this really beautiful
spot.
I uh challenge listeners to gofind it, start your day in
Pemberton and ride the Sea toSky.
You'll be in for a verypleasant surprise.
There's more waterfalls there,too.
(37:44):
I would encourage folks tothink about instead of a Grand
Fondo ride, but maybe ridingfrom Squamish to Whistler to
Pemberton on a mountain bike ona sea to sky trail.
Tom Butler (37:56):
This is a tourist destination place.
Talk a bit about the dining andlodging options up there.
Dave Brengelmann (38:03):
Well, the lodging options in the winter
are very expensive, right?
It's very crowded.
There's a lot of demand.
There's people coming from allover the world.
So you might end up spendingfour or five hundred dollars in
US per night for accommodations.
But the summer is completelydifferent.
If you get up there with yourbicycle in the summer, you can
(38:25):
find great discounts and onlyend up spending maybe a couple
hundred dollars a night for areally nice place.
And what we do is usually putfive or six or seven bicyclists
in one place, and and uheverybody pays like maybe I
don't know, 25, 30, 40, 50 bucksfor a bed, and it works out
(38:49):
really well, share meals.
So if you go up there with agroup and find a larger place,
you'll it'll be inexpensive.
Tom Butler (38:56):
Yeah, I'm guessing dining, there's just everything
up there.
Dave Brengelmann (38:59):
Yeah.
I mean my favorite is uh littleMexican place right by uh the
supermarket, but there are twogrocery stores, and and it seems
like a lot of us would justprefer to get a place with a
kitchen and and cook.
But yeah, there's great placesto dine, and it's not too
crowded in the summer.
(39:21):
There are so many events andyou know, festivals, events to
enjoy throughout the summer.
So maybe go up there duringcrankworks and see some of the
best, well, see the mountainbiking Olympics, so to speak,
and you'll still find a placeand it won't be too expensive.
Tom Butler (39:40):
Nice.
You mentioned in the wintertimepeople flock from all over the
world to ski there.
Uh from what you're describing,it seems like it should have
that kind of enthusiasm as amountain biking place.
It does.
Dave Brengelmann (39:57):
Festivals like Crankworks, for example,
attract athletes from all overthe world.
The labor situation in Whistleris such that there's a ton of
Australians.
So anytime you go, you'll runinto Australians, many of them
are local.
But I have found that there arepeople from all over the world,
(40:19):
including many Latinos fromCentral and South America.
So it's a wonderful, you know,diverse environment.
Everybody's there for the samereason because they love
mountain biking.
Again, most of the people arein the park, but road bikers and
you know the folks like me thatmight want more of an
adventure.
You don't find me in the park.
You might find me on thedessert platter.
(40:40):
If I if allow me to talk aboutone run, it's a spicy blue.
Now, let me back up for aminute.
If you have any questions, gointo the bike shops and talk to
the guys, support the bikeshops, right?
And after you've made apurchase, ask them about where
the bike is.
And I shop at this place calledFanatical up there because
(41:00):
there's two independent shopsand they're the specialized
dealer.
I'm a specialized guy, but theyrecommended the dessert
platter.
And I'm thinking, what is this?
But all the runs are namedafter dessert.
So you start with a piece ofcake, right?
A piece of cake is not a pieceof cake.
Then you have salted caramel.
You see why it's called saltedcaramel, because the loamy
(41:21):
single track has all these bigsharp boulders in it, like salt,
big chunks of salt.
And then there's green jello,and I'm I'm giving them in the
wrong order, but the dessertplatter is one of the great
spicy blue networks that runsthat you can do.
So it's spicy blue climbing,followed by uh really enjoyable
(41:43):
descents.
Tom Butler (41:44):
That's awesome.
That's that's really fun.
I love these trail names.
I I live in it.
Is there anywhere in the worldthat you'd like to take your
mountain bike to?
Dave Brengelmann (41:55):
Well, I have a daughter that lives in Grand
Junction, so I am fortunate tobe able to uh you know tell my
wife, you know, sorry, honey, II gotta go visit the daughter
and jump in my uh house back andthrow the mountain bike on back
and and mountain bike frombasically whistler to Moab.
And I gotta tell you, you know,I I'd love to get back to Moab
(42:20):
because the slick rock is such aunique adventure.
Additionally, they just openedup many of the trails to
e-bikes.
Common sense has prevailed, soyou can ride the whole
enchilada.
Uh, I think it's 26 milesdownhill or something crazy like
that, on an e-bike.
But yeah, so I'd like to getback to Colorado, but some of
the highlights are the 18 roadtrails out of Fruta, for
(42:44):
example.
There's a wonderful flow trail.
I think one of my favorite runsI've been to is the Loom Trail
in Lake Tahoe.
I I think it's underconstruction or maintenance
right now, so you can't ride it.
But I'd like to get back thereand then, of course, back to
Mount St.
Helens, because that's gotta beone of the most incredible
(43:05):
rides on the planet.
You know, you're halfway up thevolcano in these beautiful
fields.
Uh, but it is not for thetimid.
There's one section that couldhave dire consequences if you
slip or fall.
You would do not ride it.
You walk your bike on thatsection unless you're completely
(43:25):
crazy.
But if you fall, you're lost.
You're gone.
Wow.
So be careful out there.
Tom Butler (43:31):
Are you familiar with the Great Divide mountain
bike route?
Dave Brengelmann (43:34):
Yeah, a little.
Yeah.
Friends aspire to do it.
Uh, I'm more familiar withCross Washington.
I don't know if your listenersknow about Cross Washington, but
I have quite a few friends thathave ridden from the coast to
Idaho.
And uh, I don't know the exact,and maybe it's 700 miles and
70,000 vert, but it's a singletrack right across Washington
(43:58):
State.
And I challenge any mountainbikers to do that.
I like one particular sectionof it, the Olympic Adventure
Trail.
Have you heard of that, Tom?
I have not.
Well, you got the DiscoveryTrail and the Adventure Trail,
right?
Okay.
Discovery Trail, everybodyknows about that.
I'm sure you guys have talkedabout it before, but the
adventure trail basically goesfrom Port Angeles to the lake.
(44:19):
So you can, we're talking aboutCrescent, right?
So you can ride that trail,which is single track, again, 25
miles or whatever, get to thelake, go to the Devil's Punch
Bowl and jump off the cliff intothe lake, and then you can ride
road back.
But that is part of the crossWashington.
But you know, kudos to uh allthe riders because they are
(44:44):
incredible.
It's self-support.
So you ride across Washington,you might find dinner in a
convenience store, or maybethere's some trail angels.
These riders are incredible.
You know, it it starts, I thinkit's very early spring or late
winter.
It's basically when the tunnelup at Hayek opens up.
(45:06):
So these guys all hope that thetunnel opens up so they can
ride through there because uhthat is the best route.
But I would encourage yourlisteners to look in that route
if they're very serious aboutbike packing and then they have
a good sense of adventure aboutthem.
So sorry to to take the subjectfrom the the what is it, the
Great Divide.
(45:26):
Uh my sites are just morelocal.
Tom Butler (45:29):
Well, I like it.
I but it it seems like youwould have the time to maybe
take on the Great Divide orsections of the Great Divide.
And I have heard that that's aspecial route.
Dave Brengelmann (45:41):
That sounds fantastic, and more power to
anybody that is interested indoing that.
I think I I prefer to have uhyou know a warm shower and uh uh
an Airbnb or a hotel or theback of my outfat than sleeping
in the dirt surrounded bywildlife.
Tom Butler (45:59):
I'm gonna change gears a little bit here because
I I as I talked about, you didspend some time in Japan.
There is a famous bike ride inJapan, and I I don't know if
you've heard about it, but it'sit's 70 kilometers.
It crosses six islands in theSeto Island Sea.
(46:20):
I'm gonna have a hard time herewith names connecting Hanshu
and the Shikoku Islands.
Okay.
Are you familiar with that?
Honshu and Shikoku, sure.
It talks about the route asbeing well marked with
designated cycling paths onbridges, and it's accessible to
various fitness levels, and itsays it does have some hills.
(46:43):
To me, some of the the picturesuh of that route just look
really cool.
And I'm wondering if you'veever heard of that uh ride at
all.
Dave Brengelmann (46:56):
I've never heard of that ride, but it
sounds fantastic to be in ruralareas or depend on a bike.
It'll be fantastic.
You know, everybody's so nice.
The drivers are excellent, andso less likely to hit you food
is fantastic.
So kudos to anybody.
But you've piqued my interest,but I first have to uh go to
(47:16):
Hokkaido to get some skiing donebefore I jump on a bike.
Tom Butler (47:20):
Gotcha.
Well, I think the name of it, II'm gonna try to say the name
of it here.
It's Shimonami Kaido.
Yes, Shimonami Kaido.
And so I would be veryinterested to hear from anybody
that's done it.
And it's I I think it's I'mgonna put that on my list of one
of those things to do somedaybecause it it looks pretty cool.
Dave Brengelmann (47:42):
I might be there with you.
You can cycle from Hunshu toShikoku on a 70-kilometer bike
ride route.
It does look stunning.
Tom Butler (47:52):
Well, I'll keep you on the list of people that might
be interested in doing itsomeday.
Dave Brengelmann (47:56):
I am very interested.
I am very interested.
And at least you'll have oneperson in your group who's
fluent in Japanese.
Tom Butler (48:04):
Then nice.
I love it.
Before we wrap this up, I wantto ask you about knee surgery.
Uh, you recently had kneesurgery, and and talk to me
about how that's impacting yourcycling, what your view on the
future is, things like that.
Dave Brengelmann (48:22):
I can speak to you about health after three
knee surgeries.
I've skied all my life, and Ifigure once you hit about a
million moguls, your knees arejust shot.
But the wonderful thing aboutcycling, you know, it doesn't
matter if it's mountain bikingor gravel or road, is it brings
us back to health.
After mountain biking, evene-mountain biking, I have been
(48:46):
more fit aerobically than I everhave in my life.
You know, you know, growing upa doughboy, maybe being 185
pounds for most of my adultlife, you know, with kids and
all that, it's complicated.
Yeah, I mean, not complicated,that's just what happens.
But now at 175 pounds, thanksto fitness.
(49:07):
But after my most recent kneesurgery, I haven't been able to
be on a bike.
Actually, tomorrow or the nextday, I'll finally get on a bike.
Uh, so I've gained four or fivepounds just doing the
inactivity.
So I'm dying to get back out onthat bike.
But anybody who's faced withhealth challenges, I just
encourage them to get on a bike,even consider an e-bike.
(49:29):
You can dial it in.
You know, Tom, I would guessthat when you're biking,
sometimes you're at 140heartbeats a minute or 160, and
you're pushing it, that's great,right?
But you know, if you want tolose fat and be fit, you're fine
at 110, 120, 130 beats perminute.
So get an e-bike and you'restill working hard.
(49:51):
Like that earlier, I talkedabout the dessert tracks, uh,
you know, up at Worcester.
I was checking my heart rate,and it's like 160 beats per
minute, and I'm on an e-bike,right?
Or comfortably in almost thesame wave.
We're we're just workingharder.
But again, with an e-bike, youcan dial it back.
You know, look at the researchif aerobic activities at a lower
(50:13):
heart rate end up with uh morefat loss and uh in shape.
So it's getting my knees backinto shape.
Tom Butler (50:20):
Well, I think that's a fantastic point.
The fat that we have aroundorgans, that's really bad fat,
you know, and so to be doing anactivity like what you're
saying, and at a low enoughintensity that you're burning
fat, for a lot of people, thatis gonna be like a number one
(50:42):
thing that they can do in orderto achieve better metabolic
function is to be burning offthat fat that is around their
organs.
And that that's the way it wasfor me.
You know, it was interruptingmy ability to function
metabolically, and so that lowintensity stuff, you know, going
out and doing that, that's whenyou burn the fat.
(51:04):
And so uh it's a it's a greatpoint.
And that's why I'm a big fan ofe-bikes for two reasons.
One is that you have thatability to dial it to where you
need it to be for your fitnessgoals, and the other thing is
it's great if you haven't beenout on a bike for a long time,
(51:24):
it's a great way to start, youknow, especially if you're in an
area where you're around a lotof hills, it's a great way to
get back on a bike.
So I'm for it.
Dave Brengelmann (51:35):
Anyone considering the mountain bike
purchase, just don't buy amountain bike that has a
throttle.
Because then you will not bepeddling.
Good feedback.
Even me, my wife and I rentedbikes in California, class
three, right?
Up to 27 miles an hour withthrottle.
And you know, you you're beinggood for the first mile, but
then you just you just hit thatthrottle and enjoy the ride.
(51:59):
And uh, if I had a throttle onmy e-bike, I would be uh 200
pounds.
Yeah, gotcha, gotcha.
Tom Butler (52:05):
Dave, thank you so much for joining me.
This was great.
And I, you know, I have to behonest, I'm not ready to go out
and buy a mountain bike yet, butI'm definitely going to have
to, you know, and I'm in a greatarea to do this.
I'm I'm gonna have to uh findsomeplace, rent one, and you
know, and try it and add that tokind of my cycling experiences.
Dave Brengelmann (52:29):
Well, I promise you, once you do that,
your podcast will be mountainbiking over 60 instead of
cycling over 60.
But I got to put in a plug forthe Evergreen Mountain Biking
Society.
We have a local organizationthat takes care of our trails
here.
They also advocate for mountainbiking.
You go over to the Kit SapPeninsula, for example, and and
(52:52):
ride the Pork Gamble Trails, andyou see what they have done.
So anybody considering mountainbiking, I would encourage them
to look online for thisorganization and either
volunteer to help build trailsor donate to the pause.
Tom Butler (53:07):
Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance is Evergreen
Mountain Biking Alliance.
Yeah, good people.
Again, thanks so much, Dave,and uh good luck on your
recovery.
I'm glad you're close tojumping on a bike again.
I hope uh it all goes smoothly.
Dave Brengelmann (53:24):
Thank you very much, Tom.
It's been a pleasure to behere.
Tom Butler (53:35):
One of the things I like most about what Dave talked
about is that he stays away forthe most part from the mountain
bike park.
If you look for mountain bikingon the Whistler tourism site,
you get images of the park.
I can see how I would have beenattracted to the experience 40
years ago.
But for me now, I really wantto make a trip to Whistler to
experience the trails outsidethe park.
(53:57):
I would absolutely love to dothe RBC Grandfundo Whistler, but
7,500 feet of elevation gainjust sounds too much for me.
Of course, I'm doing things nowthat I never thought I would,
so maybe I have 7,500 feet ofclimbing in me.
But I have some other rides,like 5,411 feet on the ride the
hurricane to conquer, before Ido the Whistler Grandfondo.
(54:19):
Whistler is a good example ofsomething I would like to plan
out far enough so that we canmake it a cycling or 60 group
ride.
I'm just beginning to thinkmore about how to bring people
together for rides.
I see the Tour de Cure on May2nd of next year as a perfect
opportunity to get peopletogether.
I expect this to be a blast.
Please consider coming out forthat ride.
And please, please sign up nowif you think you will make it
(54:41):
next spring.
I have a lot to plan, and Ineed to know really early how
many will make it.
If you do sign up now and youcan't make it in the spring,
remember it is just a $30donation that goes to help the
American Diabetes Association.
So it isn't money wasted.
I hope you have some robustfenders on your bike.
If you are seeing winterweather where you are, hopefully
(55:02):
you have all the gear to makecycling in the rain of race.
And remember, eight is just agear change.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.