January 3, 2024 • 26 mins
Ever wonder what's going wrong with your dating life? We've got our expert matchmaker, Valdon Johnson, aboard to demystify the world of matchmaking for you. Step away from the relentless swipe culture of online dating and discover the art of quality introductions. Get ready to understand how relationship goals can guide your journey to meet 'the one' and why being truthful with your matchmaker is the first step.
No one said dating was easy, but with the right approach, it doesn't have to be as complicated as you think. In our conversation with Valdon, we unravel the importance of feedback and compatibility and why these elements are crucial to setting up successful dates. We explore the unique idea of a social circle approach to matchmaking, which could be the antidote to the loneliness and anxiety that pervades today's dating scene. Explore why expanding your social circles could be the key to finding a match that shares your core values.
Finally, we journey into the complexities of relationships. We're diving into the biology and psychology behind gender differences and how understanding these can help foster more fulfilling relationships. We also explore diverse perspectives on marriage and committed relationships and why personal growth is fundamental to their success. Get ready to have your views on relationships and matchmaking wholly transformed! Tune in, and let us guide you to your perfect match.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So there's a lot for us to go over in this.
I think I would like to startwith, from your perspective,
valden who are we looking for?
What is this for?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
My initial reason for , I should say, my initial
philosophy around why I got intothe matchmaking business had a
lot to do with the frustrationthat I know people have with
regard to finding the types ofpeople that they want to be
around, because I had that samefrustration also when I was a
single guy.
I just wanted to be around theright people from which my
(00:35):
person would come from, but Icouldn't find my right people.
And that's harder today becausewhere are we living Like?
There's a segment of societythat stays online and they feel
like that's the best place forthem to meet people and interact
with people, and then there's asegment of people who live life
in the real world, but theyboth have challenges finding the
right people to be around.
(00:56):
So, with that being said, youknow, like I said, part of the
reason why I got into thematchmaking industry was to help
people find the right people tobe around, because, ultimately,
I want to help people findtheir person.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
So how do you describe matchmaking?
Like I met you probably a yearago you were in some change ago
and you said you were amatchmaker.
I immediately jumped to like,oh that's funny.
Yeah, that's great Cool, how'sthat working?
And then I started thinkingabout it a little bit more with
(01:30):
regards to millionairematchmaker.
Love is blind All these showsthat we've seen talking about
matchmaking, and then obviously,the Hallmark movie of a
matchmaker like trying to set upother people, because I feel
like that's a great Hallmarklifetime movie plotline and then
(01:51):
we started talking.
I met with you at the beginningof this year of 2022 to sort of
explore that a little bit more,like, hey, I want different
results.
As a single person who's beenonline dating and then real life
dated and then online dated, Iwanted different results because
(02:12):
I wanted to find my personRight and I got sort of tired of
this whole thing.
And I got sort of tired of thiswhole hey, remember that time
when and I didn't have anybodyto go to, like, point to and say
that time when, fill in theblank.
And so I just became reallycurious about how do you
matchmaking in a world wherepeople are looking for, like,
(02:35):
we've got a lot of swipes, wegot a lot of swiping.
And then there's this Shangri-Laof being able to walk into a
bar and meet somebody.
I was just talking to somebodythe other day about Sullivan's
bar and how fantastic that baris Literally top one of my
favorite bars, really.
Yeah, I judge restaurants bythe bar.
Yeah, if I had a memory, itwould be called bar side always.
(02:57):
Yeah, but anyway, off of thattopic, to just like the desire
to be able to meet somebody inreal life, yeah, and I think
that's you're sort of a hybridof that.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Well, your initial question was what is a mass
maker?
Yeah, we don't remember thatGood job that was your initial
question, and so I've been inthe industry for about seven
years now, right, and I am basedon what I've learned, because
I'm a researcher.
Like when I get involved withthings, I kind of want to know
where it came from and you knowwhere it's going and some of
those things.
So I did a little bit ofresearch on matchmaking.
(03:32):
You know, in my earlier yearsand I personally have come to a
conclusion that we have what'scalled traditional matchmakers
and modern matchmakers, Becausematchmaking for the most part is
Genesis in the Jewish community.
Yeah, and I can't remember thename of the person.
There's a name, I think, Ayenta.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
We joke about them at my house.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
The only reason I bring that up is I consider that
traditional matchmaking right,because they didn't do it for
money.
They did it because it wasculturally the thing to do to
help people come together right,and they do this in the Indian
community.
There's some other communitieswhere I consider them to be
traditional matchmakers.
Modern matchmaking has the samespirit behind it, but it's more
(04:13):
of a business type of a thing.
Most people that I know thatare in the matchmaking industry
really want to help people cometogether right.
They really do so.
I don't want to make peoplethink that modern matchmakers
are all about money, becauseit's not.
But I will say this the modernmatchmakers, or that segment of
that industry, it's a luxuryticket item.
Yeah, right, it's a very luxuryticket item, and part of the
(04:36):
reason why I got into theindustry is because I wanted to
bring what I consider a veryuseful service to the working
class.
But it's tough to do thatbecause it requires a lot of
resources, which is the reasonwhy it costs a lot of money,
right, yeah, yeah.
But what is matchmaking?
In my opinion, matchmaking issimply about making quality
(04:57):
introductions, like introducingyou to somebody that's qualified
to date you right, based onyour relationship goals, because
that's what.
That's what we lack in thedating app world.
You've got a list of people,but people don't always tell the
truth, right?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
And what people are not telling the truth.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
They are absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Oh my gosh shocks.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
And then you know, even if it's from photograph
standpoint, people don't tellthe truth with their photographs
, like people post 20 year oldphotos and you know, or in this
world, people have learned totake camera and make themselves
look like something that theyare.
And then it's not even get intofilters and that sort of thing,
right?
So, at the end of the day,matchmaking brings.
(05:40):
It has the capability to takeaway a lot of the frustrations
that people deal with, becauseyou can spend a lot of time.
When I was single, I spenthours and hours and hours on
matchmaking websites at the timewe didn't have apps back then,
but I would travel for two weeksand I come home and I spend the
whole weekend just readingthrough profiles and responding
to profiles.
And it was.
It just wasn't a good use oftime, you know.
(06:00):
So let me add this one lastthing, I think, for successful
people, the more successfulpeople are, the more they
realize how important their timeis, how valuable.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Their time is right.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
So anything they can outsource, they'll outsource it.
And if I'm a successful personand I need somebody in my life
and I can go to somebody and say, hey, this is what I need in my
life, can you go find thatperson for me?
I'm all about it if I canafford to do it, anyway.
So that's a little bit aboutwhat?
I think matchmaking is.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
So what does your process look like?
I met with you earlier in theyear, that's obviously, I guess.
Is that stage one 1.5?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yeah, so you know we've taken a slow track only
because we haven't done photosyet.
Because photos are important,it's like one of the most
important things that help me domy job right, because the way
the process works, I'm likerecruiting 100% of the time.
When I'm out and about, I amalways looking for quality
(06:57):
single people and I want to havea conversation with them and
decide if they should be a partof my matchmaking network.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Quick question do you turn that off on date night?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
No, I don't think so.
One thing on that point I'mforcing it to be married to a
very supportive person, andshe's excited by a lot of the
work that I do also, so I don'tthink it ever goes off.
But here's a quick process.
Let's see, I met you and I madean appointment to come sit over
here with you.
When we sat and talked aboutstep one, well, I said, hey, go
(07:28):
fill out this form.
Yes, the form on the websitewhich basically gets you into
the database and allows you toset up a profile of your
preferences you know what you'relooking for and a little bit
about you, and then I'llgenerally have a screening
interview with a person.
Most of us will do a screeninginterview with the person and
(07:48):
you know we got to get photosright.
Then we do photos.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
So we're delayed at the photo stage.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
but hypothetically if we had photos, so if we had
photos because one of the thingsI said to you I've been out and
about whether I was at the clubor at an event, and if I see a
guy and I think to myself, hey,this might be nice for Anna
Bevin, yeah, right, and I goopen up conversation with him
and the more I talk to him I sayto myself, man, he would be
(08:15):
nice for Anna Bevin, but I'vegot to sell him on Anna Bevin,
yeah, and I've got nothing tosell him with If I don't have a
photo.
Now, it's not like I go aroundsharing people's profiles with
everybody, right?
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Right.
The idea is like this isthere's discretion about the
whole process, but at the end ofthe day you know, I analogize
what we do and how we do it withthe real estate industry Right.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
And here.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Here is the reason why I say that because recently
I had a high profile guy and Iput his discreetly, shared him
with the community of women andthe women were very interested
and this guy was actually inanother matchmaker's database
and I wanted to collaborate.
She reached out to me to see ifwe could collaborate to help
find somebody for her client.
Now I said to the women,because the women were
(09:03):
interested, right.
And I said to the women youknow, in order for me to present
you, I have to present you wellbecause I have a reputation as
a matchmaker also.
So when I'm working with highend matchmakers who have high
end clients, I have to make surewhat I send them.
That's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I have to make sure what I send them is high end
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, so I can't take your bathroom photos and put it
in your profile and send it towho we've noted, a bathroom
selfie is not ideal.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, exactly so.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
That's the reason why there's some matchmakers who
are against using photos, justso you know.
But the general consensus inthe dating world and whether
you're using apps or matchmakersor whatever, is you got to have
good photos.
And I like to use the wordeffective photos, because
there's a difference between agood photo and an effective
photo.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
So we've taken photos .
I feel properly shamed as tonot have photos right now, but
so, in this role, use me as thiscontinued example.
We've taken photos.
You are constantly looking forpeople, for your clients.
What comes next?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
What comes next is whoever I get for you will
definitely be a part of thedatabase also, right, because we
screen both sides, right, andyou know, because, at the end of
the day, I need to know thatI'm putting you in a safe
situation, right?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
And.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I want to make sure that I'm not wasting your time
also, but here's how it happens.
If I say to you hey, anna Bev,and I found somebody and I'm
going to set you up on a date,and I said the same thing to him
, then I introduce you guysthrough, you know, over the web,
like it's, through the contentmanagement system that we use.
It has all the capabilities tosend you an introduction, send
him an introduction.
(10:42):
I can set up a date for you,set up the times of the place,
location, all of that stuff.
I can set that up for you andall you have to do is just show
up, all he has to do is justshow up, right, and you guys
have a date, you know, and,depending on who you are, I
might offer some parametersaround that date, whether it
should be one hour or no morethan 30 minutes, or whatever the
(11:02):
case may be Like oh, that's,interesting these things.
People are different, likethere's no one size fits all
when it comes to these things,and it also depends on the type
of date that you're having.
Also Right, but anyway, you goand putt putt or sit down dinner
.
Yeah yeah, no, putt putt still.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Okay, again, lots of great things.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I wouldn't do a putt putt.
But I don't know, Maybe thereis somebody I would do putt putt
with.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
For the record, I also don't want putt putt.
Okay, in case we were wondering.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
So I send you guys out on a date and it's a
requirement for both of you togive me feedback on the other
person, right?
I really want feedback about myclient because if there's
anything that you need to know,because this is one of the
problems with dating.
One of the problems with datingis people go out with each other
all the time and things happen,and if something happens this
bad, the person who did it willtypically never find out about
(11:53):
it.
No, right, there's a greatpodcast called Second Date
Update and it's a podcast wheretwo people have gone on a date
and maybe one person thought thedate went really, really well,
but the other person ghostedthem, right.
So this person calls the radiostation and says, hey, find out
why Johnny ghosted me, because Ithought we had a really good
time.
And then Johnny gets on thephone and he explains why he
(12:16):
ghosted her, right, and what's agood example.
Let's go the other way.
There was an example where aguy was on his way to a date,
yeah, and he put some trash inthe back of his car and he was
going to stop on the way out ofhis community to throw trash in
the dump, but he was runninglate, so he kept trashing the
car.
So, oh, that's weird.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yeah, but they went on to have a really good date.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
In his mind.
But in her mind she was likethis dude is nasty, that's a
weird yeah and.
But he never.
So he called the radio stationand say, hey, why did she ghost
me?
We had a really good time.
And she called in and saidDude's car smell like.
If his car smells like this, Ihate to see what his house
smells like.
I hate to see what he smellslike Right, but it's those types
(12:58):
of things.
Listen, it's a good podcast.
I'll say go listen to thesecond date update podcast.
It's a really good.
Okay, it's almost like a gooddate coaching.
You can learn so much fromother people's mistakes Mistakes
, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah, okay, so you've set up a date for future
Anabaven and future potentialdude and you've gotten feedback.
Where do you go from there?
Do you repeat the process again?
How do you deliver toughfeedback?
I guess that's probably likewhere I want to, because I'm
running through work scenarioswhere sometimes you have to get,
you give tough feedback andthen you have to get tough
(13:33):
feedback.
How do you do that as amatchmaker?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Because it's not like hey, your formatting was wrong,
right, it's like so, so let melet me start by saying that this
industry is heavily dominatedby women, and it's easier for
women to deliver Messages towomen than it is for men to
deliver certain messages towomen.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
So you do tag and Debbie.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
No, no, no, no, I do it, I go for it, but you know,
it requires a level of empathyand sincerity that and you have
to build that rapport with yourclient early so that you, they
understand that you want to givethem feedback that's gonna be
helpful for them and even ifit's tough feedback, as long as
you, you, you're coming from aplace of being helpful, yeah,
(14:16):
constructive, yeah, but you, butyou have to be the type of
person that can deliver thatright, and it can still be tough
, even with that information,but anyway.
So the one thing I want to say,before we move on from what a
matchmaker is and this is justbecause of the way you and I've
Come together and some of thethings that we want to do I
really like the idea of taking asocial circle approach to
(14:37):
matchmaking.
And I think I mentioned this toyou earlier one of the things I
do in my matchmaking databases Iwill curate a group of people
based on core values.
Okay, and you know?
So I may.
I may go into the database andsay, hey, give me all of the
Christian Caucasian women,conservative, between the ages
of 35 and 40, just see how manywomen are in there, and then
(15:00):
I'll do the same thing for men.
Go Find me all the Christian,conservative Caucasian men and
see how many are in there, andif I see enough people to make a
party, so to speak, I'll justsay a party.
I do love parties and or anevent you know then I will
curate those people or build anevent.
I sent them all an invitationfrom the system, from the
matchmaking system that we use,and then we build an event
(15:22):
around people who are Basicallycompatible at the core value
level.
Right, because, again, I'm verymuch for helping people find
Types of people that they wantto be around.
And I should probably say onemore thing with regard to
matchmaking, because matchmakingis a we, we do ethically
discriminate, because that'swhat clients pay us to do.
(15:43):
They pay us to go find exactlywhat it is that you're looking
for.
Now I also add to you thatcoaching is a very big part of
matchmaking, because most people, if you were to bring their
perfect person, they wouldn'tknow how to keep that person.
They basically screwed up.
Most people just don't know.
Most people don't have goodrelationship.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Interesting right.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
So if you're my client and I understand that
you've got some blind spots andyou've got some, you know, some
traumas that you have to dealwith.
Now I'm not a therapist but Ican identify Traumas in people
because I think I mentioned thisto you.
And a bed when we first met,you wanted a very few women.
When I said, hey, you want tobe married, you want a very few
women.
That just said yes, absolutelywant to be married.
(16:23):
What women will often say is,yeah, I want to be married if I
can find somebody that's notgonna cheat on me, or if I can
find somebody that's honest, orif I can find somebody that's
not this and not this, and ifit's the right person and all
those sorts of things.
Right.
And where my brain goes is thatif I ask you if you want to be
married and your brain goesstraight to all the negative
things that could happen to youin marriage, then that that's a
(16:46):
clear indication that there'ssome work to do to get your mind
in the right place.
That's interesting, yeah, butwhen I mean like yourself and
and I say, hey, you want to bemarried.
You're like, yeah, absolutely,I want to be married, sign me up
.
Yeah, that sends a differentmessage to me.
Anyway, I said all I'd like tosay very few.
Most matchmakers are Datingcoaches and relationship coaches
.
Also, not all relationshipcoaches and dating coaches are
(17:08):
matchmakers, but it's.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
It's a very complimentary skill to have so
you said something a minute agothat sort of stands out on my
brain and I'm gonna see, if Iremember it correctly, the core
foundations that are similar,core values, core values that
are similar when you puttogether a group of people,
because I think groupmatchmaking is social circles.
(17:32):
Mm-hmm is refreshinglycomfortable.
You and I'm going to say alsosort of new where group dating
has like negative implicationsin my mind, from like an
evangelical background whereeverything was group dating
Right and you never really knew,like, who liked you and who
didn't like you, because youwere group dating Right, right,
(17:53):
and I jokingly talk about thislike phase of work that I've
gone through, that is, I've gonefrom an exclusive relationship
to what feels like group dating,so I don't really know where I
stand.
Yeah, have you found that?
That is your approach to socialcircles and similar like core
values?
Putting those people in theroom result in the whether it's
(18:14):
a metaphorical room or an actualroom results in positive
feedback, comfortableinteractions.
And then I have an overallquestion about privacy, but
we'll get to that in a second.
Yeah, but answer that firstquestion, go.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah.
So first of all the socialcircle idea came to mind because
people are really intimidated.
Let me back up one step andjust say there's a most I can't
even say most people.
A lot of people are lonely,like, let's right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
A lot of people are lonely.
Stats will tell you that.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah, and not only that.
Many people have anxiety aboutmeeting other people.
Yeah, because we live in aworld where we don't really
interact with people as much aswe did 20 years ago.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Also heightened by COVID Right.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah, hightened by COVID.
So the first thing that crossesmy mind is how can I get people
in the room with people thatthey would be most comfortable
with?
Right, understanding thatthere's some anxiety around the
situation.
Again, I have to grease thiswhole situation up also, right?
So even if I invite someone toa social circle event, I have to
either have people there thatare going to interact with you
(19:13):
if you are, you know,introverted, because I don't
want you standing in the corner.
At the same time, I don't wantto force you to feel like you
have to do something you don'twant to do, right?
The idea behind the socialcircle event is to begin to
build safe spaces for people tofeel more comfortable with
interacting with people.
Right, that's fundamentallywhat it is now that they're
(19:35):
interacting with people.
Now they have a better chanceof making a friend, whether it's
a same sex friend or anopposite sex friend.
And now they're developing someinterpersonal skills and some
communication skills with people.
Again, that's not behind a cellphone or a computer.
Now they have an opportunity toactually show people who they
(19:55):
are and see who other people are, and it just opens up the
opportunity for them to meetsomeone that they can go on a
date with.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
And the reason why I don't call it group dating,
because I like think about it.
If I send five guys out withfive women, I kind of want the
five guys to get to know thefive guys also, I want the five
women to get to know the fivewomen.
I want the five women to get toknow the five guys, and vice
versa, right, and I really tryto coach people to stop.
I try to coach men to stopthinking of every woman that
(20:23):
they meet as a potential Right.
Let's get out of that mindsetfirst and the same thing for
women.
When you meet a guy, take offthe potential glasses right now.
Your goal is just to see if youcan be cordial with the guy, be
nice with the guy, get to knowthe guy, because you get an
opportunity to get to know fiveguys.
Don't put all your eggs in hisbasket.
Let's get to know all five guysRight.
There's so many differentdynamics that could come out of
(20:46):
this, but at the end of the day,some people do better with
one-on-one dating.
Some people don't want to doone.
It's just a thing.
It really depends on the person.
Right, and all I'm trying to dois bring different scenarios to
people, because I attack thisfrom several different angles,
whether it be one-on-one,traditional matchmaking or
whether it be social circle with10 people or a social circle
event with 20 people.
(21:07):
Right, because, at the end ofthe day, we put down these lists
and we know from science andresearch that lists have nothing
to do with you having asuccessful relationship.
Right, but you can't convincepeople of that, so you go ahead
and you let them make their listRight.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Thank you for letting me make my list.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, you go ahead and you let people make their
list and you go ahead and youfind people that match that list
Right, and then you'repositioned to have conversations
to help them understand what'sreally important and what's
really going to offer you theopportunities to have long and
lasting relationships.
Right, because it's not thestuff on your list most of the
time, depending on the person.
(21:42):
But the point is we get to havesome of these conversations
once we, you know, we get themin the fold.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
So what's been the number one thing of all your
clients that you've worked withand you've seen move into happy
and healthy, successfulrelationships?
What's been the thing that theyhave changed their mind about
the most?
If you can answer that, I feellike that's somewhat loaded,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
It is loaded because the men people are just so
different.
Like in my community the peopleis very diverse, like four
different generations of people,you know, at least three
different races, all sorts ofdifferent religions and
political backgrounds and allthose sorts of things.
Yeah, I can tell you this, theone thing that I try to help
women understand, let's saywomen and men.
(22:25):
So I am a believer inevolutionary biology and
psychology Right, and a lot ofpeople aren't Right.
But I do believe that there aresome things that are ingrained
in men that just make us the waywe are.
Right has nothing to do with howwe will live our lives and what
decisions we'll make, butthere's some things that we're
just wired to think Like.
(22:46):
There's some things we arewired to feel in certain
situations and the same thingfor women.
Like there's certain thingsthat women are just wired to
feel Like.
You know, I won't get into thelikes, but because of that I try
to help women understand menbetter and I try to help men
understand women better, Becausewhen you understand why women
are the way they are, then youdon't blame them for being the
(23:08):
way they are.
And once you stop blaming themfor being the way they are.
You stop being frustrated aboutthe way they are Like you get
to make a decision now.
Hey, I want to be with a woman,and the same thing coming back
from you know, from the otherside, with men.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Because here's one of the things I say often.
I say, hey, you know, peopleenjoy doing what they're good at
, right, and they really hatedoing things that they're not
good at.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
I definitely live by that rule, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, and that's a lot of reason why relationships
are so tough Because most peoplearen't good at dating Right,
and most people aren't good atrelationships.
Most people aren't good atcommunicating, like most people
don't have good relationshipskills, and because of that it
brings a lot of frustration tothe party, so to speak.
So one of my goals is to helppeople be better at it and sell
them on the idea that if you arebetter at being in
(23:51):
relationships and you know thisis a problem, like people have
to do work to do get to thatpoint Right, you got to either
read a book or you got to golisten to somebody or do
something, go to therapy orsomething Like.
The combination is not the samefor everybody, but you have to
at least start with one thing tobe better and have more
knowledge about relationships.
Because I can tell you, themore you know about
(24:12):
relationships, the more you cansee it in your everyday life and
the more you can navigate it.
And the easier you can navigateit, the better it gets.
Like it just you know, youstart to enjoy relationships.
I don't know if I answered yourquestion that you asked 10
minutes ago, but it was a littlewhile ago, but that's okay.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
I am hearing you talk through matchmaking and what
matchmaking is and how yourprocess works.
I am a little intrigued by thisthought of you have to want to
have a new thought, a newperspective.
You have to want to go in aplace that you haven't gone
before, right, and I think thatis so interesting in like
(24:53):
today's dating culture, becauseI don't think that I would say
that many of my friends when Iwas younger maybe that's not
true, because most of my friendsare all married and have
children now because they wantedto be married and be parents
and have children.
But maybe some, like adjacentpeople that I acquaintances,
(25:13):
that I knew that are they datedaround.
They wanted to date, not tomarry, and I think that mindset
really changes how you approachthe concept of finding your
person or finding just a personfor the time being.
Do you want to not be lonely?
Do you want to have a partnerto work through conversations,
(25:38):
work through hard times, workthrough like the pain of life?
I don't know, because I thinkI'm trying to think through the
examples of marriage that I havein my family and I mean I could
be wrong, but I think we reallyall want to end up there, end
up in having a committedrelationship, whether it's
defined by marriage or justdefined by a committed
(25:58):
relationship moving forward in along-term fashion, where you
both die together.
I would call that marriage.
So there's a lot for us to go over in this.
I think I would like to startwith, from your perspective,
valden who are we looking for?
What is this for?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
My initial reason for , I should say, my initial
philosophy around why I got intothe matchmaking business had a
lot to do with the frustrationthat I know people have with
regard to finding the types ofpeople that they want to be
around, because I had that samefrustration also when I was a
single guy.
I just wanted to be around theright people from which my
(00:35):
person would come from, but Icouldn't find my right people.
And that's harder today becausewhere are we living Like?
There's a segment of societythat stays online and they feel
like that's the best place forthem to meet people and interact
with people, and then there's asegment of people who live life
in the real world, but theyboth have challenges finding the
right people to be around.
(00:56):
So, with that being said, youknow, like I said, part of the
reason why I got into thematchmaking industry was to help
people find the right people tobe around, because, ultimately,
I want to help people findtheir person.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
So how do you describe matchmaking?
Like I met you probably a yearago you were in some change ago
and you said you were amatchmaker.
I immediately jumped to like,oh that's funny.
Yeah, that's great Cool, how'sthat working?
And then I started thinkingabout it a little bit more with
(01:30):
regards to millionairematchmaker.
Love is blind All these showsthat we've seen talking about
matchmaking, and then obviously,the Hallmark movie of a
matchmaker like trying to set upother people, because I feel
like that's a great Hallmarklifetime movie plotline and then
(01:51):
we started talking.
I met with you at the beginningof this year of 2022 to sort of
explore that a little bit more,like, hey, I want different
results.
As a single person who's beenonline dating and then real life
dated and then online dated, Iwanted different results because
(02:12):
I wanted to find my personRight and I got sort of tired of
this whole thing.
And I got sort of tired of thiswhole hey, remember that time
when and I didn't have anybodyto go to, like, point to and say
that time when, fill in theblank.
And so I just became reallycurious about how do you
matchmaking in a world wherepeople are looking for, like,
(02:35):
we've got a lot of swipes, wegot a lot of swiping.
And then there's this Shangri-Laof being able to walk into a
bar and meet somebody.
I was just talking to somebodythe other day about Sullivan's
bar and how fantastic that baris Literally top one of my
favorite bars, really.
Yeah, I judge restaurants bythe bar.
Yeah, if I had a memory, itwould be called bar side always.
(02:57):
Yeah, but anyway, off of thattopic, to just like the desire
to be able to meet somebody inreal life, yeah, and I think
that's you're sort of a hybridof that.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Well, your initial question was what is a mass
maker?
Yeah, we don't remember thatGood job that was your initial
question, and so I've been inthe industry for about seven
years now, right, and I am basedon what I've learned, because
I'm a researcher.
Like when I get involved withthings, I kind of want to know
where it came from and you knowwhere it's going and some of
those things.
So I did a little bit ofresearch on matchmaking.
(03:32):
You know, in my earlier yearsand I personally have come to a
conclusion that we have what'scalled traditional matchmakers
and modern matchmakers, Becausematchmaking for the most part is
Genesis in the Jewish community.
Yeah, and I can't remember thename of the person.
There's a name, I think, Ayenta.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
We joke about them at my house.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
The only reason I bring that up is I consider that
traditional matchmaking right,because they didn't do it for
money.
They did it because it wasculturally the thing to do to
help people come together right,and they do this in the Indian
community.
There's some other communitieswhere I consider them to be
traditional matchmakers.
Modern matchmaking has the samespirit behind it, but it's more
(04:13):
of a business type of a thing.
Most people that I know thatare in the matchmaking industry
really want to help people cometogether right.
They really do so.
I don't want to make peoplethink that modern matchmakers
are all about money, becauseit's not.
But I will say this the modernmatchmakers, or that segment of
that industry, it's a luxuryticket item.
Yeah, right, it's a very luxuryticket item, and part of the
(04:36):
reason why I got into theindustry is because I wanted to
bring what I consider a veryuseful service to the working
class.
But it's tough to do thatbecause it requires a lot of
resources, which is the reasonwhy it costs a lot of money,
right, yeah, yeah.
But what is matchmaking?
In my opinion, matchmaking issimply about making quality
(04:57):
introductions, like introducingyou to somebody that's qualified
to date you right, based onyour relationship goals, because
that's what.
That's what we lack in thedating app world.
You've got a list of people,but people don't always tell the
truth, right?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
And what people are not telling the truth.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
They are absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Oh my gosh shocks.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
And then you know, even if it's from photograph
standpoint, people don't tellthe truth with their photographs
, like people post 20 year oldphotos and you know, or in this
world, people have learned totake camera and make themselves
look like something that theyare.
And then it's not even get intofilters and that sort of thing,
right?
So, at the end of the day,matchmaking brings.
(05:40):
It has the capability to takeaway a lot of the frustrations
that people deal with, becauseyou can spend a lot of time.
When I was single, I spenthours and hours and hours on
matchmaking websites at the timewe didn't have apps back then,
but I would travel for two weeksand I come home and I spend the
whole weekend just readingthrough profiles and responding
to profiles.
And it was.
It just wasn't a good use oftime, you know.
(06:00):
So let me add this one lastthing, I think, for successful
people, the more successfulpeople are, the more they
realize how important their timeis, how valuable.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Their time is right.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
So anything they can outsource, they'll outsource it.
And if I'm a successful personand I need somebody in my life
and I can go to somebody and say, hey, this is what I need in my
life, can you go find thatperson for me?
I'm all about it if I canafford to do it, anyway.
So that's a little bit aboutwhat?
I think matchmaking is.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
So what does your process look like?
I met with you earlier in theyear, that's obviously, I guess.
Is that stage one 1.5?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yeah, so you know we've taken a slow track only
because we haven't done photosyet.
Because photos are important,it's like one of the most
important things that help me domy job right, because the way
the process works, I'm likerecruiting 100% of the time.
When I'm out and about, I amalways looking for quality
(06:57):
single people and I want to havea conversation with them and
decide if they should be a partof my matchmaking network.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Quick question do you turn that off on date night?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
No, I don't think so.
One thing on that point I'mforcing it to be married to a
very supportive person, andshe's excited by a lot of the
work that I do also, so I don'tthink it ever goes off.
But here's a quick process.
Let's see, I met you and I madean appointment to come sit over
here with you.
When we sat and talked aboutstep one, well, I said, hey, go
(07:28):
fill out this form.
Yes, the form on the websitewhich basically gets you into
the database and allows you toset up a profile of your
preferences you know what you'relooking for and a little bit
about you, and then I'llgenerally have a screening
interview with a person.
Most of us will do a screeninginterview with the person and
(07:48):
you know we got to get photosright.
Then we do photos.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
So we're delayed at the photo stage.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
but hypothetically if we had photos, so if we had
photos because one of the thingsI said to you I've been out and
about whether I was at the clubor at an event, and if I see a
guy and I think to myself, hey,this might be nice for Anna
Bevin, yeah, right, and I goopen up conversation with him
and the more I talk to him I sayto myself, man, he would be
(08:15):
nice for Anna Bevin, but I'vegot to sell him on Anna Bevin,
yeah, and I've got nothing tosell him with If I don't have a
photo.
Now, it's not like I go aroundsharing people's profiles with
everybody, right?
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Right.
The idea is like this isthere's discretion about the
whole process, but at the end ofthe day you know, I analogize
what we do and how we do it withthe real estate industry Right.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
And here.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Here is the reason why I say that because recently
I had a high profile guy and Iput his discreetly, shared him
with the community of women andthe women were very interested
and this guy was actually inanother matchmaker's database
and I wanted to collaborate.
She reached out to me to see ifwe could collaborate to help
find somebody for her client.
Now I said to the women,because the women were
(09:03):
interested, right.
And I said to the women youknow, in order for me to present
you, I have to present you wellbecause I have a reputation as
a matchmaker also.
So when I'm working with highend matchmakers who have high
end clients, I have to make surewhat I send them.
That's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I have to make sure what I send them is high end
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, so I can't take your bathroom photos and put it
in your profile and send it towho we've noted, a bathroom
selfie is not ideal.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, exactly so.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
That's the reason why there's some matchmakers who
are against using photos, justso you know.
But the general consensus inthe dating world and whether
you're using apps or matchmakersor whatever, is you got to have
good photos.
And I like to use the wordeffective photos, because
there's a difference between agood photo and an effective
photo.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
So we've taken photos .
I feel properly shamed as tonot have photos right now, but
so, in this role, use me as thiscontinued example.
We've taken photos.
You are constantly looking forpeople, for your clients.
What comes next?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
What comes next is whoever I get for you will
definitely be a part of thedatabase also, right, because we
screen both sides, right, andyou know, because, at the end of
the day, I need to know thatI'm putting you in a safe
situation, right?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
And.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I want to make sure that I'm not wasting your time
also, but here's how it happens.
If I say to you hey, anna Bev,and I found somebody and I'm
going to set you up on a date,and I said the same thing to him
, then I introduce you guysthrough, you know, over the web,
like it's, through the contentmanagement system that we use.
It has all the capabilities tosend you an introduction, send
him an introduction.
(10:42):
I can set up a date for you,set up the times of the place,
location, all of that stuff.
I can set that up for you andall you have to do is just show
up, all he has to do is justshow up, right, and you guys
have a date, you know, and,depending on who you are, I
might offer some parametersaround that date, whether it
should be one hour or no morethan 30 minutes, or whatever the
(11:02):
case may be Like oh, that's,interesting these things.
People are different, likethere's no one size fits all
when it comes to these things,and it also depends on the type
of date that you're having.
Also Right, but anyway, you goand putt putt or sit down dinner
.
Yeah yeah, no, putt putt still.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Okay, again, lots of great things.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
I wouldn't do a putt putt.
But I don't know, Maybe thereis somebody I would do putt putt
with.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
For the record, I also don't want putt putt.
Okay, in case we were wondering.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
So I send you guys out on a date and it's a
requirement for both of you togive me feedback on the other
person, right?
I really want feedback about myclient because if there's
anything that you need to know,because this is one of the
problems with dating.
One of the problems with datingis people go out with each other
all the time and things happen,and if something happens this
bad, the person who did it willtypically never find out about
(11:53):
it.
No, right, there's a greatpodcast called Second Date
Update and it's a podcast wheretwo people have gone on a date
and maybe one person thought thedate went really, really well,
but the other person ghostedthem, right.
So this person calls the radiostation and says, hey, find out
why Johnny ghosted me, because Ithought we had a really good
time.
And then Johnny gets on thephone and he explains why he
(12:16):
ghosted her, right, and what's agood example.
Let's go the other way.
There was an example where aguy was on his way to a date,
yeah, and he put some trash inthe back of his car and he was
going to stop on the way out ofhis community to throw trash in
the dump, but he was runninglate, so he kept trashing the
car.
So, oh, that's weird.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yeah, but they went on to have a really good date.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
In his mind.
But in her mind she was likethis dude is nasty, that's a
weird yeah and.
But he never.
So he called the radio stationand say, hey, why did she ghost
me?
We had a really good time.
And she called in and saidDude's car smell like.
If his car smells like this, Ihate to see what his house
smells like.
I hate to see what he smellslike Right, but it's those types
(12:58):
of things.
Listen, it's a good podcast.
I'll say go listen to thesecond date update podcast.
It's a really good.
Okay, it's almost like a gooddate coaching.
You can learn so much fromother people's mistakes Mistakes
, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah, okay, so you've set up a date for future
Anabaven and future potentialdude and you've gotten feedback.
Where do you go from there?
Do you repeat the process again?
How do you deliver toughfeedback?
I guess that's probably likewhere I want to, because I'm
running through work scenarioswhere sometimes you have to get,
you give tough feedback andthen you have to get tough
(13:33):
feedback.
How do you do that as amatchmaker?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Because it's not like hey, your formatting was wrong,
right, it's like so, so let melet me start by saying that this
industry is heavily dominatedby women, and it's easier for
women to deliver Messages towomen than it is for men to
deliver certain messages towomen.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
So you do tag and Debbie.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
No, no, no, no, I do it, I go for it, but you know,
it requires a level of empathyand sincerity that and you have
to build that rapport with yourclient early so that you, they
understand that you want to givethem feedback that's gonna be
helpful for them and even ifit's tough feedback, as long as
you, you, you're coming from aplace of being helpful, yeah,
(14:16):
constructive, yeah, but you, butyou have to be the type of
person that can deliver thatright, and it can still be tough
, even with that information,but anyway.
So the one thing I want to say,before we move on from what a
matchmaker is and this is justbecause of the way you and I've
Come together and some of thethings that we want to do I
really like the idea of taking asocial circle approach to
(14:37):
matchmaking.
And I think I mentioned this toyou earlier one of the things I
do in my matchmaking databases Iwill curate a group of people
based on core values.
Okay, and you know?
So I may.
I may go into the database andsay, hey, give me all of the
Christian Caucasian women,conservative, between the ages
of 35 and 40, just see how manywomen are in there, and then
(15:00):
I'll do the same thing for men.
Go Find me all the Christian,conservative Caucasian men and
see how many are in there, andif I see enough people to make a
party, so to speak, I'll justsay a party.
I do love parties and or anevent you know then I will
curate those people or build anevent.
I sent them all an invitationfrom the system, from the
matchmaking system that we use,and then we build an event
(15:22):
around people who are Basicallycompatible at the core value
level.
Right, because, again, I'm verymuch for helping people find
Types of people that they wantto be around.
And I should probably say onemore thing with regard to
matchmaking, because matchmakingis a we, we do ethically
discriminate, because that'swhat clients pay us to do.
(15:43):
They pay us to go find exactlywhat it is that you're looking
for.
Now I also add to you thatcoaching is a very big part of
matchmaking, because most people, if you were to bring their
perfect person, they wouldn'tknow how to keep that person.
They basically screwed up.
Most people just don't know.
Most people don't have goodrelationship.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Interesting right.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
So if you're my client and I understand that
you've got some blind spots andyou've got some, you know, some
traumas that you have to dealwith.
Now I'm not a therapist but Ican identify Traumas in people
because I think I mentioned thisto you.
And a bed when we first met,you wanted a very few women.
When I said, hey, you want tobe married, you want a very few
women.
That just said yes, absolutelywant to be married.
(16:23):
What women will often say is,yeah, I want to be married if I
can find somebody that's notgonna cheat on me, or if I can
find somebody that's honest, orif I can find somebody that's
not this and not this, and ifit's the right person and all
those sorts of things.
Right.
And where my brain goes is thatif I ask you if you want to be
married and your brain goesstraight to all the negative
things that could happen to youin marriage, then that that's a
(16:46):
clear indication that there'ssome work to do to get your mind
in the right place.
That's interesting, yeah, butwhen I mean like yourself and
and I say, hey, you want to bemarried.
You're like, yeah, absolutely,I want to be married, sign me up
.
Yeah, that sends a differentmessage to me.
Anyway, I said all I'd like tosay very few.
Most matchmakers are Datingcoaches and relationship coaches
.
Also, not all relationshipcoaches and dating coaches are
(17:08):
matchmakers, but it's.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
It's a very complimentary skill to have so
you said something a minute agothat sort of stands out on my
brain and I'm gonna see, if Iremember it correctly, the core
foundations that are similar,core values, core values that
are similar when you puttogether a group of people,
because I think groupmatchmaking is social circles.
(17:32):
Mm-hmm is refreshinglycomfortable.
You and I'm going to say alsosort of new where group dating
has like negative implicationsin my mind, from like an
evangelical background whereeverything was group dating
Right and you never really knew,like, who liked you and who
didn't like you, because youwere group dating Right, right,
(17:53):
and I jokingly talk about thislike phase of work that I've
gone through, that is, I've gonefrom an exclusive relationship
to what feels like group dating,so I don't really know where I
stand.
Yeah, have you found that?
That is your approach to socialcircles and similar like core
values?
Putting those people in theroom result in the whether it's
(18:14):
a metaphorical room or an actualroom results in positive
feedback, comfortableinteractions.
And then I have an overallquestion about privacy, but
we'll get to that in a second.
Yeah, but answer that firstquestion, go.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah.
So first of all the socialcircle idea came to mind because
people are really intimidated.
Let me back up one step andjust say there's a most I can't
even say most people.
A lot of people are lonely,like, let's right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
A lot of people are lonely.
Stats will tell you that.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah, and not only that.
Many people have anxiety aboutmeeting other people.
Yeah, because we live in aworld where we don't really
interact with people as much aswe did 20 years ago.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Also heightened by COVID Right.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah, hightened by COVID.
So the first thing that crossesmy mind is how can I get people
in the room with people thatthey would be most comfortable
with?
Right, understanding thatthere's some anxiety around the
situation.
Again, I have to grease thiswhole situation up also, right?
So even if I invite someone toa social circle event, I have to
either have people there thatare going to interact with you
(19:13):
if you are, you know,introverted, because I don't
want you standing in the corner.
At the same time, I don't wantto force you to feel like you
have to do something you don'twant to do, right?
The idea behind the socialcircle event is to begin to
build safe spaces for people tofeel more comfortable with
interacting with people.
Right, that's fundamentallywhat it is now that they're
(19:35):
interacting with people.
Now they have a better chanceof making a friend, whether it's
a same sex friend or anopposite sex friend.
And now they're developing someinterpersonal skills and some
communication skills with people.
Again, that's not behind a cellphone or a computer.
Now they have an opportunity toactually show people who they
(19:55):
are and see who other people are, and it just opens up the
opportunity for them to meetsomeone that they can go on a
date with.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
And the reason why I don't call it group dating,
because I like think about it.
If I send five guys out withfive women, I kind of want the
five guys to get to know thefive guys also, I want the five
women to get to know the fivewomen.
I want the five women to get toknow the five guys, and vice
versa, right, and I really tryto coach people to stop.
I try to coach men to stopthinking of every woman that
(20:23):
they meet as a potential Right.
Let's get out of that mindsetfirst and the same thing for
women.
When you meet a guy, take offthe potential glasses right now.
Your goal is just to see if youcan be cordial with the guy, be
nice with the guy, get to knowthe guy, because you get an
opportunity to get to know fiveguys.
Don't put all your eggs in hisbasket.
Let's get to know all five guysRight.
There's so many differentdynamics that could come out of
(20:46):
this, but at the end of the day,some people do better with
one-on-one dating.
Some people don't want to doone.
It's just a thing.
It really depends on the person.
Right, and all I'm trying to dois bring different scenarios to
people, because I attack thisfrom several different angles,
whether it be one-on-one,traditional matchmaking or
whether it be social circle with10 people or a social circle
event with 20 people.
(21:07):
Right, because, at the end ofthe day, we put down these lists
and we know from science andresearch that lists have nothing
to do with you having asuccessful relationship.
Right, but you can't convincepeople of that, so you go ahead
and you let them make their listRight.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Thank you for letting me make my list.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, you go ahead and you let people make their
list and you go ahead and youfind people that match that list
Right, and then you'repositioned to have conversations
to help them understand what'sreally important and what's
really going to offer you theopportunities to have long and
lasting relationships.
Right, because it's not thestuff on your list most of the
time, depending on the person.
(21:42):
But the point is we get to havesome of these conversations
once we, you know, we get themin the fold.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
So what's been the number one thing of all your
clients that you've worked withand you've seen move into happy
and healthy, successfulrelationships?
What's been the thing that theyhave changed their mind about
the most?
If you can answer that, I feellike that's somewhat loaded,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
It is loaded because the men people are just so
different.
Like in my community the peopleis very diverse, like four
different generations of people,you know, at least three
different races, all sorts ofdifferent religions and
political backgrounds and allthose sorts of things.
Yeah, I can tell you this, theone thing that I try to help
women understand, let's saywomen and men.
(22:25):
So I am a believer inevolutionary biology and
psychology Right, and a lot ofpeople aren't Right.
But I do believe that there aresome things that are ingrained
in men that just make us the waywe are.
Right has nothing to do with howwe will live our lives and what
decisions we'll make, butthere's some things that we're
just wired to think Like.
(22:46):
There's some things we arewired to feel in certain
situations and the same thingfor women.
Like there's certain thingsthat women are just wired to
feel Like.
You know, I won't get into thelikes, but because of that I try
to help women understand menbetter and I try to help men
understand women better, Becausewhen you understand why women
are the way they are, then youdon't blame them for being the
(23:08):
way they are.
And once you stop blaming themfor being the way they are.
You stop being frustrated aboutthe way they are Like you get
to make a decision now.
Hey, I want to be with a woman,and the same thing coming back
from you know, from the otherside, with men.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Because here's one of the things I say often.
I say, hey, you know, peopleenjoy doing what they're good at
, right, and they really hatedoing things that they're not
good at.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
I definitely live by that rule, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, and that's a lot of reason why relationships
are so tough Because most peoplearen't good at dating Right,
and most people aren't good atrelationships.
Most people aren't good atcommunicating, like most people
don't have good relationshipskills, and because of that it
brings a lot of frustration tothe party, so to speak.
So one of my goals is to helppeople be better at it and sell
them on the idea that if you arebetter at being in
(23:51):
relationships and you know thisis a problem, like people have
to do work to do get to thatpoint Right, you got to either
read a book or you got to golisten to somebody or do
something, go to therapy orsomething Like.
The combination is not the samefor everybody, but you have to
at least start with one thing tobe better and have more
knowledge about relationships.
Because I can tell you, themore you know about
(24:12):
relationships, the more you cansee it in your everyday life and
the more you can navigate it.
And the easier you can navigateit, the better it gets.
Like it just you know, youstart to enjoy relationships.
I don't know if I answered yourquestion that you asked 10
minutes ago, but it was a littlewhile ago, but that's okay.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
I am hearing you talk through matchmaking and what
matchmaking is and how yourprocess works.
I am a little intrigued by thisthought of you have to want to
have a new thought, a newperspective.
You have to want to go in aplace that you haven't gone
before, right, and I think thatis so interesting in like
(24:53):
today's dating culture, becauseI don't think that I would say
that many of my friends when Iwas younger maybe that's not
true, because most of my friendsare all married and have
children now because they wantedto be married and be parents
and have children.
But maybe some, like adjacentpeople that I acquaintances,
(25:13):
that I knew that are they datedaround.
They wanted to date, not tomarry, and I think that mindset
really changes how you approachthe concept of finding your
person or finding just a personfor the time being.
Do you want to not be lonely?
Do you want to have a partnerto work through conversations,
(25:38):
work through hard times, workthrough like the pain of life?
I don't know, because I thinkI'm trying to think through the
examples of marriage that I havein my family and I mean I could
be wrong, but I think we reallyall want to end up there, end
up in having a committedrelationship, whether it's
defined by marriage or justdefined by a committed
(25:58):
relationship moving forward in along-term fashion, where you
both die together.
I would call that marriage.
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