Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Deep
Dive.
Today, we're taking a reallyfascinating look beneath the
surface of high-end property.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Yeah, we're diving
into the well, pretty staggering
international real estate ownedby Citadel founder Ken Griffin.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Exactly.
You've got this detailed piecethat honestly makes you wonder
are these huge buys, you know,spanning continents, pure
investment strategy?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Or maybe personal
passion or, as seems likely,
sort of a mix of both that's themission today, right to unpack
the why behind these massiveheadline grabbing purchases and
see what they tell us about thatwhole world of ultra luxury
real estate and, frankly,immense wealth because the scale
is just it's hard to wrap yourhead around.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
You've got glittering
manh Manhattan penthouses,
these sprawling places in PalmBeach.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Even properties on
the French Riviera.
Glamorous stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
It really begs the
question is this portfolio built
purely for ROI or is theresomething I don't know, more
personal going on?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
It's a great question
and the source material gives
us some really interestingangles to explore.
Let's start with, maybe, thecrown jewel that Palm Beach.
Compound the numbers.
They're almost unbelievable.
We're talking potentially abillion dollars.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
A billion Wow.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
For this eight acre
estate right on what they call
billionaire's row.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Which is exactly what
it sounds like, I assume, an
area just packed withbillionaire's homes.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Pretty much Ultra
expensive, ultra exclusive.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
OK, a billion dollars
.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
On the surface, that
just screams extravagance,
doesn't it?
But this piece we're looking atsuggests there might be a
strategic side.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Definitely,
especially considering the Palm
Beach market itself.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
How so.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well, the article
points out this big migration
trend Lots of wealthy peoplemoving to South Florida.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Right From places
like New York, California, high
tax states.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Exactly, and that
influx has really boosted the
high end property market there.
So even if Griffin isn'tplanning a quick flip, putting
that much capital into a marketwith strong long term growth
potential, that looks like asmart investment move.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Like a safe harbor
for wealth almost.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Kind of, yeah, high
end real estate like that can be
a pretty stable store of value,especially when other markets
get choppy.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
That makes sense
purely from an investment angle.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
But the article also
mentioned something more
personal.
It said the place is reportedlybeing built for his mother.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
That's right and that
kind of shifts the perspective
doesn't it?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
It does, it feels
like it goes beyond just the
financial calculation.
Then Is that where personalpassion might actually outweigh
the investment strategy, evenfor someone like Griffin?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I think that's a
crucial point.
Yeah, it brings in this idea oflegacy, maybe personal
fulfillment, off-datement piece.
Absolutely A property like that, especially for family.
It's more than just an asset.
It's a symbol of success, ofbeing able to provide on this
well extraordinary scale.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
And you can't ignore
the prestige factor either, I
suppose.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Definitely not Owning
a landmark like that in that
neighborhood.
It definitely enhances yoursocial standing in those elite
circles.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Speaking of elite
circles, let's head north to
Manhattan, another majorplayground for the super rich.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
And Griffin certainly
made waves there.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
That $238 million
quadplex at 220 Central Park
South still blows my mind.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
The record at the
time, and then he bought more
apartments in the same building.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Right.
Plus that co-op over at 740Park Avenue, he really cemented
himself on New York's ownbillionaire's row.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
He did.
And, what's interesting,comparing it to Palm Beach, the
article points out a subtledifference.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Oh, that.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Well, both are peak
luxury, obviously, but Manhattan
adds these extra layers likeliquidity and maybe even more
sheer prestige.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
OK.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
The piece uses this
great analogy.
It says these propertiesfunction almost like blue chip
stocks for the ultra wealthy.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Blue chip stocks.
I like that.
Can you unpack that a little,for you know listeners who
aren't deep in finance, sure,think of blue chip stocks.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
They're that.
Can you unpack that a little?
For you know listeners whoaren't deep in finance?
Sure, think of blue chip stocks, their shares in big, stable,
reliable companies.
They tend to hold their valuewell over time.
Ok got it.
Luxury Manhattan real estate,especially in those iconic
buildings, is kind of similar.
There's only so much of it.
It has history, cultural weight.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
And global elites
want it.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Scarcity and demand
scarcity and demand Exactly so
they tend to hold their valueincredibly well.
They become these safe placesto park international capital,
maybe less risky than otherproperty ventures.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
And it's not just
about the apartment itself, is
it?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
No, the article
stresses this too.
It's about the social capitalbeing seen being part of that
network.
Owning there signifies youbelong to a very specific
powerful group.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Right, I see.
Now the story gets interestingwhen we look at Chicago.
That used to be Citadel's homebase.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
It did and Griffin
owns some prime real estate
there.
No Nine Walton, other places.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
But the piece says he
sold some of it off and took a
pretty big loss, like 44% onsome penthouse units.
That's quite a hit.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
It is, and it shows
something important, I think.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
What's that?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
That even for someone
with Griffin's resources,
strategic priorities can changeeverything, even override past
investments.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
So why the sales?
Why take the loss?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
The article strongly
connects it to Citadel moving
its headquarters to Miami.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Ah OK, the business
moved, so the real estate had to
align.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Seems like it.
Okay, the business moved, sothe real estate had to align.
Seems like it the convenience,the strategic sense of having
assets where the business is nowbased that just became more
important than holding ontoproperty in the old location.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Even if it meant
selling at a loss.
So it's like cutting yourlosses for the bigger picture.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Pretty much.
It's a key takeaway, isn't it?
Real estate at this level isn'talways about maximizing every
single dollar of ROI.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Sometimes it's about
operational efficiency making
things work for the mainbusiness.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Precisely.
It shows how deeply thesemassive real estate plays can be
tied to broader businessstrategy.
The Chicago exit wasn't aboutChicago's market failing,
necessarily Without Chicago'smarket failing.
Necessarily.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
It was about
Citadel's focus shifting
fundamentally and the realestate had to follow, even if it
meant taking a financial hitthen and there, which brings us
naturally to Miami, the new hub.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Right.
The article paints it as a dualmove Citadel's business moving
and Griffin personallyrelocating too.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
And he's bought
significant property there as
well.
Hasn't he A big office towerdowntown?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yep, a 54-story one
and some major residential buys
too that huge chunk of land onStar Island.
I think it was around $169million Wow.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
And homes in Coconut
Grove too.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah, big ones.
So Miami's clearly become amajor focus.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
How does the article
frame Miami in the portfolio?
Is it investment, lifestylebusiness?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
It seems to be
presented as a blend, a
convergence of lifestyle andlong-term prospects.
Obviously, Florida having nostate income tax is a huge draw
for businesses, for wealthyindividuals.
That helps fuel a stronghigh-end property market.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
But it's not just
taxes, is it?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
No, miami has its own
distinct lifestyle appeal too.
But the article not just taxes,is it?
No, miami has its own distinctlifestyle appeal too.
But the article does bring upan interesting counterpoint,
which is.
The environmental risks youknow coastal property, sea level
rise, global warming impact.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
That's a real concern
for Miami, but didn't it say
Griffin is taking steps likeupgrading sea walls?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
It did, which
suggests you know a long-term
view.
He's acknowledging the risks,but investing in mitigation.
These aren't just impulse buys.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
So a calculated move,
even with the risks.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Seems that way, and
if you compare Miami to say,
Palm Beach's establishedexclusivity or Manhattan's
historical weight, Miami feelsmore forward-looking.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Like a dynamic mix of
business center and personal
retreat.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, something like
that, a contemporary blend of
business center and personalretreat.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, something like
that, a contemporary blend.
Okay, so beyond the main hubslike New York, miami, palm Beach
, the piece also touches on whatit calls leisure investments.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Right, those amazing
places in like Saint-Tropez, the
Hamptons, aspen.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
These feel different,
don't they More about pure
personal enjoyment, maybeLifestyle?
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Well, yes, but maybe
not just that.
A direct financial return, likeflipping it for profit, might
not be the main goal, but theystill serve a purpose.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
The article brings up
the idea of veblen goods.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Veblen goods.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Basically luxury
items, where the demand actually
increases as the price goes up,because the high price itself
signals status.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Ah right, so these
properties, even if they aren't
the best financial performers onpaper, they carry huge social
currency.
Social currency.
That's a good way to put it.
It's about access, isn't it?
Lifestyle being part of thatscene?
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Exactly Owning a
place in Central Pez or the
Hamptons.
It signifies something.
It provides access to certaincircles, a certain lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
And maybe privacy too
.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Absolutely.
For someone like Griffin,prestige and privacy can be
incredibly valuable, maybe morevaluable than just the potential
ROI.
It's enjoyment, networking,exclusivity.
It's more than just money.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
So when you put all
these pieces together Palm Beach
, manhattan, the Chicago exit,miami, the leisure spots it's
definitely not a simple picture.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Not at all.
It seems like Ken Griffin'sportfolio isn't just about
maximizing profit or just buyingwhat he likes.
It's this really complex,fascinating mix.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
A blend.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, the article
basically concludes it's a
calculated mix personalinterests, definitely status,
but also strategic long-terminvestments and different places
seem to have different primarydrivers right, Exactly Like New
York and Miami seem more focusedon capital preservation, maybe
networking in those financialhubs.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Whereas Palm Beach
and Centrapez feel more about
legacy lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
That seems to be the
read, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
And ultimately the
piece kind of argues that for
the super wealthy today,high-end real estate isn't just
an asset anymore.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
No, it's become much
more like an extension of their
power, their influence.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Their identity almost
.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
In a very tangible
way.
Yes, it's part of the story oftheir success, their place at
the very top.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
It's a key insight.
Really, these properties tell astory.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
They do and, as the
article points out, markets and
cities are always changing, sowatching where someone like Ken
Griffin invests next.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
It'll be fascinating,
not just for the price tags,
which will no doubt be huge.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
But for what it might
signal about the next phase of
luxury real estate, the nextfocus for major investment.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
What does the future
of high-end property look like?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Where will the
ultra-wealthy be placing their
bets next.
It's definitely somethinginteresting to think about,
isn't it?