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*************************************************************************************Ever wondered if something as simple as homeopathic remedies or a few EMDR sessions could truly shift years of emotional pain or even the lingering after-effects of divorce? Or, like most women, are you skeptical about whether these approaches can actually move the needle when you’re feeling stuck?
If you’re redefining life after divorce or struggling with grief, invisible pain, or friendship “drama,” it’s easy to feel overwhelmed, misunderstood, and unsure which healing tools—even the ones everyone seems to rave about—are worth your energy. Maybe you’re tired of white-knuckling it alone but feel hesitant to trust “quicker” or less conventional solutions for deep hurts.
You’ll hear how tackling both emotional and physical stuckness is possible—and get:
- A relatable first-hand comparison of EMDR and homeopathy, so you can decide what actually feels right for you (from a former skeptic, no less)
- Real talk about subtle shifts, setbacks, and unexpected healing moments that happen when you let go of control—even if that’s not your comfort zone
- The inside scoop on why some wounds just won’t budge on their own and how “layers” of healing mean you don’t need to have it all figured out to start
Hit play now to discover which healing path might finally free some energy and peace for you—no matter how many things you’ve already tried.
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On the Web: https://www.mycoachdawn.com
A podcast exploring the journey of life after divorce, delving into topics like divorce grief, loneliness, anxiety, manifesting, the impact of different attachment styles and codependency, setting healthy boundaries, energy healing with homeopathy, managing the nervous system during divorce depression, understanding the stages of divorce grief, and using the Law of Attraction and EMDR therapy in the process of building your confidence, forgiveness and letting go.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I am very excited to introduce you all to my dear
friend, brittany Gardner,someone who influences your life
regularly but you've never met.
Hi, love, welcome to DearDivorce Diary, the podcast
helping divorcees go beyond talk.
Therapy to process your grief,find the healing you crave and
(00:23):
build back your confidence.
Therapy to process your grief,find the healing you crave and
build back your confidence.
I'm your host, dawn Wiggins, atherapist, coach, integrative
healer and divorcee.
Join me for a fresh approach tohealing grief and building your
confidence after divorce.
(00:44):
So, quick intro Brittany and Imet in 2018-ish at a conference
and we started working togethershortly thereafter.
She helps create content, right, so she helps.
She does so much of our socialmedia now and she creates the
publishes the blogs on the blogpage.
And, right, she's been such ahuge part of building this brand
, launching the podcast integral.
(01:06):
Right, we planned the initialpodcast episode.
Like, you were such a huge partof the podcast launch.
Wow, that just like cameforward for me as we're talking
about it.
Yep, like you're, like you werelike the doula of the podcast.
Wow, I didn't even wow, okay,so, yeah, you have profoundly
influenced all these women'slives.
You happen to be divorced andremarried, which just sort of
(01:28):
makes you like even better fiton the team, right, but that's
not actually why we're talkingtoday.
our time together like lifelifed, and we've had the opportunity
for you to experience both EMDRand homeopathy and we're
probably, dare I say, skepticalabout both 100% Yep, as we were
(01:53):
sort of talking about the growththat we're leaning into in the
organization and planning tohelp teach people more about all
these modalities and thesethings, it was, like all of a
sudden very clear that you and Icould have this conversation
that would help peopleunderstand both modalities.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, you're not wrong at all in saying I was
skeptical Maybe a little lessskeptical of EMDR.
I just didn't understand it, Ijust didn't know about it.
Like there are plenty of timesin life you just don't know
enough about something toactually say, yeah, let's
wholeheartedly believe in thatthing.
You know, but homeopathy wasnot on my bucket list.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
So you know, yeah, so today we're going to talk about
both these modalities andyou're courageous enough to come
and talk about it, which I'mjust so grateful for, right?
So let's just kick it off with,like tell us about, tell us
your story.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Cool.
Yes, I was divorced.
I got divorced when I was 25.
I have been remarried for 14years.
I can do math Probably we'llnever hear this.
So that's fine and we'rehappily married.
You know, that's not really abig part of the story story, but
I do have that background andall the fun stuff that comes
(03:08):
with.
You know, having dealt with allthat relationship stuff but um,
your parents, divorce.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
That came up more than, oh, yeah, your own divorce
, yeah, well, that was much morerecent.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
My parents, that's true, are one of the uh famous
2020 split couples.
They've been married for 40years.
So you that was fun beingalmost 40 and suddenly having
your parents go through aseparation and then divorce,
especially since I didn't knowanyone like me.
Everyone I knew who haddivorced parents did it when
(03:37):
they were, you know, eight or 15.
And I just didn't have anyoneto relate to being a fully grown
adult with your own familysuddenly doing that.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
That's such a good point.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, that was an interesting time.
But, like you said, we'd knowneach other, We'd been working
together off and on at thatpoint for a little while and my
friend passed in a rather abruptway and I was not handling it
well, in a rather abrupt way,and I was not handling it well
and you, my therapist friend,very gracefully said you know,
(04:12):
I'm here, you know if you need.
And I was like oh no, no, Ineed, but I'm not ready.
And then I was ready.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
And yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, and now of course I'm tearing up because
you know things don't go awayjust because you've dealt with
them, right?
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Yeah, and now of course I'm tearing up because
you know, things don't go awayjust because you've dealt with
them, right?
No, I think that's.
The thing is, we're still humanwith emotions and grief is a
super appropriate emotion.
Yeah, for you, the grief wasstuck.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yes, I couldn't move at all, like not even move on,
like moving on was like a loftygoal, but just move would have
been great anywhere like off mycouch, for example, and so I
didn't like step in and likebecome your therapist.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I mean, I did, but but that's sort of the cool
thing about EMDR is, we wereable to do a handful of sessions
and you were able to experiencesome, some pretty significant
shifts.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah, and you know like it's not that I didn't
believe in what you do I'd readyour testimonials.
I was using your testimonialsfor copywriting, yeah yeah.
So it's not like I didn'tbelieve in what you do, it just
it never occurred to me thatjust a handful of sessions with
you would help me shift out of areally dark place.
You know what I mean.
(05:24):
Like, um, and even after I meanwe had our first session and I
was like, is that all this islike I just snap my fingers and
I'm fine now, like that doesn'tseem right, and it wasn't that
like I don't want to gloss overthat, but the amount of relief I
felt after our first sessionwas just immense.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
I love that for you and it's not always that simple.
I did say that to you in theprocess.
You processed it very quickly.
Results not necessarily typical, so let's put that disclaimer
here.
I think one of the problems I'mgoing to go on a tangent here
and media and social media isvery often you'll see people
like myself or influencerstouting a result with a thing
(06:07):
and not explaining when theresults aren't typical.
Right.
So you did process very, veryquickly and you already knew,
liked and trusted me.
I did know, liked and trustedyou, which matters.
So you got to skip a wholebunch of those steps, right.
(06:30):
And let's say this was not acomplex trauma we were
processing.
Right, it was a traumatic loss,but it wasn't like it was all
wound up in, like these majorchildhood issues or decades of
abuse, right.
So it was a little cleaner thansome of the other things that
do often take people a lotlonger to work through in EMDR.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, absolutely yeah .
I experienced an event, andmaybe there were a couple of
days leading up to the event,right.
But like it wasn't somethingthat was in my formative years,
but and I needed I don't want tosay permission because that's
the wrong word I hate when Ican't come up with the right
word but I almost neededpermission to be able to move.
And you walking me through someof the things around there,
(07:13):
outside of the actual, even EMDR, portion of things, was just so
valuable and having those fewsessions just helped me process
what I had gone through.
You know, having those fewsessions just helped me process
what I had gone through, theplace I was in right now, the
place I wanted to get back to,and maybe even move beyond in
(07:33):
the future was for me.
It felt very logical and since Ierr towards a strategic logic
side, right like that made mylife decisions there easy life
decisions.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
They're easy.
So then, as I'm sort ofrecalling it all right, we did
end up talking about a numbernumber of things sort of blurs
together, like what we talkabout just like as friends and
what we were working on in theEMDR.
But we did end up talking abouta number of things, just in
sort of taking your historyright as I do, that ended up
being the things we treatedhomeopathically down the road.
So talk just a little bit likejust give us a little entree
into your homeopathy experience,yeah, so when did we start
(08:10):
homeopathy?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
A year ago Probably.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I don't know.
I think it could have even beenlonger, right?
No, because, honestly, when wedid EMDR, I had you take a
couple of things.
I did have you take a littlesepia, right, because sepia is
it doesn't.
It's sluggish, it doesn't move,you burn out, right?
So I had you take a littlesepia.
We tried sulfur.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
So we were dabbling in homeopathy when we did EMDR.
Yeah, so we were dabbling in afew of those things, um, just
some stuff I was dealing, saywhen I was in high school, but
um, like dealing with some ofthat stuff.
Yeah, we were dabbling um.
But I feel like when I startedtaking it seriously when you
said there we go sorry, dawn,but when I started taking it
seriously, all right.
So, um, the long story short is,I am a flower farmer today and
(09:00):
I got stung by a yellow jacket,a bee, something on my my
shoulder, like right on my rightshoulder, and um, the next, I
mean it hurt when it happenedbut like the next day I I
couldn't move my arm, I couldn't.
It was like stiff and it was,and I was like I don't feel like
a sting should be this bad,like this feels wrong, but it
(09:21):
was the first time I'd ever beenstung in all my many years.
So you know, what did I knowRight, and it kind of went away
a little bit.
But then two weeks later Iliterally couldn't lift my arm
and I ended up at the doctorearlier that week.
I've had a frozen shoulder andI didn't actually move my arm
without significant pain for along time after that and you
(09:43):
were like all right, we're goingto do a thing, britt, we're
going to do it.
And you were right, thank you.
Thank you so much.
I was wrong to wait first of allto even talk to you about it,
but also to be a littleskeptical because, oh, oh, you
don't even know this.
Oh, my goodness, tell me, Igraduated from physical therapy
this morning.
Do-do-do-.
Tell me, I graduated fromphysical therapy this month.
(10:04):
Do, do, do, do.
Congratulations.
So good timing that wescheduled this today.
I love that, but yeah, it'sbeen.
What are we now at Eight months?
Yeah, eight months Since thisday.
Almost nine since I got stung,Definitely eight months since I
first started medically tryingto figure out how to fix this
stupid situation.
And we've gone through.
(10:26):
I think I tried to count in myhead.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
I think we've tried like 12 different remedies
before we finally startedhitting the stuff, but that came
from us talking through randomstuff that in my opinion at the
time was completely unrelatedUnrelated, but obviously it's
all related because we'recomplicated beings and all of
ourselves talk and everything isthat that's right, and and I
(10:49):
you know your case, if I maycall it that was particularly
cool, uh, in how we found thebreakthrough which we could talk
about, uh, if you want to.
But, um, and it's notnecessarily that the remedies we
tried before, like maybe theywere right, maybe they were
wrong, we're still going to likelean into that and find out.
You know how I've been debatingsulfur, like I swear you're
sulfur, but it's like theycouldn't penetrate until we hit
(11:11):
the right thing at the righttime and so remedy selection
right.
For the naysayers who say likethis doesn't work, it's like it
really is about.
It's an art and a science.
And yeah, it can be trickysometimes to get that right
remedy at the right time.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Well, and it's.
I'm going to say this as a as aperson who's still skeptical,
not necessarily of homeopathy,but in general, I feel like I'm
a skeptic.
Yeah, you have a healthy,healthy you know we, we doctors,
practice medicine, rightPractice.
And it's interesting to me thatwe as a society allow doctors
the grace to practice and trythis and try that.
(11:47):
But homeopathy, I tried thatone time and it didn't work.
Um, or like, I mean, I stillsay that about acupuncture.
I've tried it twice and ithasn't worked either time.
So I'm like, yeah, it justisn't for me.
And you know what, if I everbecome desperate again, like
over something, maybe I wouldtry it again.
Right, but I am guilty ofsaying things like this.
I know other people around meare too.
(12:08):
Oh, I tried that once, itdoesn't work.
Now some people take it to anextreme.
I tried that work once, it didnot work.
They're all quacks.
I don't go that far.
I just think maybe it didn'twork for me or whatnot.
But yeah, it took us a lot oftries and I've watched my mom do
that with her diabetes.
Right, she was on a medicationfor years.
(12:30):
It worked great, and then itstopped working and the doctor's
like, well, let's try this, no,that doesn't work.
Let's try this no, that doesn'twork.
And three or four rounds latermaybe they find it.
But that was six months of herlife and we allow doctors with
MD degrees to do that, but wehave to allow other people to do
that too.
Well, said Like I know how totalk to people like me.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Healthy skeptics Healthy skeptics.
Yeah, yeah, okay, all right.
So homeopathy works on layersthat aren't always linear or
logical.
What was one change that younoticed that felt almost too
subtle to explain but impossibleto ignore.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Okay, so previously mentioned drama with friends,
right, I had this thing and it'snot worth going into here, but
I fired some of my friends.
They weren't being good friendsand I called them out on it
because I'm blunt and I dothings like that and it didn't
go well and then everything blewup and I didn't handle it all
(13:32):
that well.
It's not fun feeling like thepeople you value so much don't
value you at all and that's abitter pill to swallow, that's
the best way to really say it.
But I still have to be aroundthese people and, to be fair,
pill to swallow Like that's thebest way to really say it, but I
still want to be around thesepeople.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
And, to be fair, brittany, I think a lot of women
listening right now aregrateful to hear you saying all
of that, like I think that's apath they're walking right now.
Right, so I think what you'resaying probably resonates, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah, yeah, I had just had lunch with a friend
today who she got divorced a fewyears ago and she lost a lot of
her friends through the processand I was like she's like one
of those friends that you'relike friends with but you really
only see once a year.
So I was like I'm so sorry thathappened to you.
I hate that that happened toyou, but I think a lot of people
are dealing with it, right.
Yeah, so I still had to seethese people, unfortunately
(14:17):
because of stuff, and I knew Iwas going to have to see them
for an extended period of time,fairly regularly, regardless of
the fact that I had pulled backfrom relationships that that
weren't very good to me and thatfelt yuck, that felt gross,
like I felt anxiety every time,like you had to be in the room
(14:38):
with them and I asked you.
I was like I need something Ican just take when I'm feeling
anxiety.
Like I did use it like thatonce a week when I needed it and
then I just stopped, like Ididn't even remember to take it
because I didn't feel like Ineeded it anymore.
And that was a big aha, win,right, Like that was one Another
(15:00):
.
I remember I actually textedyou this one.
I don't remember the exacttiming on it, but I texted you
and I was like I had to do areally hard thing today and I
did it and I'm not drowningafterwards.
I'm not feeling like I'mhungover afterwards, like
hungover from like that Emotionsknow from like the situation.
(15:26):
Um, and that was actually, if Irecall again, I don't remember
the exact time I feel like thatwas around the time we started
really trying to hit my shoulderwith yeah, that was post arnica
of all things like.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, right, so so let me just tie some pieces
together, if I may, please.
Okay, so so britney's case wassuper interesting because and
you can maybe explain some ofthis but she experienced this
major injury in high school andmajor injury in high school and
it resulted in surgeries andmedications and x-rays and all
(15:54):
these things, and so we tried it.
I think I even tried somereally like esoteric remedies
with you or we talked about itat least like x-ray, right, like
there are remedies made.
We did, we did try to x-ray,yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, yeah.
So long story short, Ifractured my hip when I was in
high school, just a stupid,freak accident.
And you know, since 15-year-oldfemales don't do that, I had to
have like multiple MRIs andx-rays and, I think, a CAT scan
and then two years later Ideveloped a hernia, an inguinal
her, and again, 17-year-oldfemales don't get hernia Do that
(16:30):
.
So they didn't know what to do.
So I saw, like all thespecialists, like I was still a
virgin and I had like agynecological visit you guys.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
It was horrible, Horrible.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
You know.
But I had to see all thesedifferent specialists and like
so much imaging and I wassitting in anatomy and
physiology, which I took as ajunior, like that spring it was,
after all, my like, it wasafter the surgery that found the
hernia.
But, um, I was sitting in thereand we were talking about
radiation.
I was like wait a second,because my textbook actually
(17:00):
said how much you like pick upfrom each one of these things
get exposed to I was like youguys, I'm radioactive literally.
I was like 17 and radioactive.
So yeah, that came up justanecdotally with you one time
and you're like huh screenshotsof like you know things and I
was like that fits, that fits,that fits.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
We did, um, some kind of funky remedies there, and
then we did arnica um, but thereal breakthrough was opium I
know, but arnica was the one,and so this is just a note right
, because Arnica, like it's theremedy most people are familiar
with because they can pick it upat Publix or whatever I don't
know, kroger, you know, I don'tknow the muscle rub aisle or
whatnot.
So and that is homeopathic andit's for trauma, physical and
(17:45):
mental, emotional, recent andremote.
And so when you were dealingwith the friend things and we
did some high potency Arnica,probably we did a, we actually
probably did a blend ofpotencies but did some high
potency Arnica, that's when theemotional started shifting and
that's when you went to thefriend thing and had to do the
hard thing and it didn't drownyou.
So it's like the Arnica brokethe case, which is really
(18:09):
fascinating.
And then, yes, the shoulderthing, which was just something
I saw you say on your socials.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yeah, I said and actually I just saw this on
Mother's Day because I waslooking through my old stories
to find a specific picture Isaid something along the lines
All right, so I had an injectionin my shoulder back in November
and I started PT in Decemberand I was making good progress
and then, all of a sudden, Iwasn't.
All of a sudden, my shoulderstarted to like try and refreeze
(18:37):
, which was really annoyingbecause I'd been working so hard
, and it came out.
I have a very high paintolerance, which I've known
forever, but it came out thatyou know, if I didn't have such
a high pain tolerance, maybe Iwouldn't have been pushing my
shoulder too hard with my PTexercises and re-injured it
essentially.
And I posted something aboutthat on my Instagram stories and
(18:58):
you were like that's it.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
And there we were, and I think I had just shipped
you a box and I was like now Ihave to ship another box.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
You did yeah, cause you had just that morning ship.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
But it's Okay.
So here's something that'sreally interesting.
Yeah, and I don't know thatthis is going to land, because
it's like in the weeds clinicalbrain, like clinician brain,
right.
So opium as a homeopathicremedy is useful for people who
you know have injuries and painissues, but also it's so useful
(19:32):
for dissociation, which we seewith complex trauma, right.
And what's interesting is I usethat remedy a lot with my
trauma clients now as an openerbefore I do EMDR, because the
results in EMDR are often betterwhen we can peel back some of
(19:52):
that dissociative stuff.
Then you can get into yourfeelings and you can actually
work through some things.
So it's just so interestingthat now there's a handful of
remedies I use for dissociation,depending on you know the
presentation and what the personneeds.
But it's fascinating that yougot such good results from EMDR
while needing opium down theroad.
It's very interesting, or?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
maybe I was just so primed for the EMDR at the time.
We're like, we're going to dothis, regardless of the fact
that you haven't been opened.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah All this stuff was right on the surface.
Okay, let's do an EMDR question.
So, emdr, it sometimes, often,almost always, reveals memories
that feel minor to you beforeyou do EMDR, but hold major
emotional weight once we getinto the processing.
So were there any?
I know the answer right, butwere there any small memories
(20:41):
that surprised you in theirhealing importance, however much
you want to share about?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
that.
So when I was in fifth grade,my mom had a brain surgery.
She had an abscess andbacterial meningitis and a staph
infection all at the same time,which is like a really fun
cocktail.
Last we had heard, which wasforever ago, they still studied
her case in medical conferencesbecause it was supposed to be
impossible and my family justgets real lucky with some of
(21:08):
those impossibilities but theydidn't know what was wrong.
She had had a dental visit andhad a horrible headache and over
the weekend it got worse andshe was just not good and they
went to the dentist and then hesent it to an oral surgeon and
he was like, yeah, not me,neurosurgeon.
And he was like, cool, you'rein the hospital now.
And it just got worse.
It took them a while to figureout what was going on and
(21:29):
probably another case forradioactive Uh-huh, uh-huh, I
had to guess.
But during that time periodthis was.
This all started at thebeginning of May, so it was like
right on through Mother's Dayand you know like when you're in
elementary school, what do youdo at school the week before?
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Mother's.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Day, you get to slave over the Mother's Day card,
right?
So I'm the oldest of threegirls.
My youngest sister was tooyoung to even go to the hospital
and it wouldn't have been, youknow a thing.
But Lindsay and I who's twoyears younger than me went, my
parents' friends, we werestaying with them, and they
brought us to the hospital forMother's Day and I was like so
(22:06):
excited, thinking, you know, mycard was going to magically heal
my mom, because you knowchild's brains right.
Or maybe I didn't even think itwas going to magically heal my
mom because you know child'sbrains right.
Or maybe I didn't even think itwas going to heal her.
I just thought she wouldactually like be happy to see it
.
But she was in a lot of painand as an adult I can see
exactly what happened.
But she just tossed it asideand I was like really mad at her
(22:26):
about it for a very long timeand that came up in my view at
the time very unexpectedly.
But now now, like you know, acouple of years after we've done
all this and I've done evenmore healing, I'm like, well, of
course that came up.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Right, of course that came up.
Yeah, but it's so interesting,right?
Because if I had a dollar forevery time, someone said to me
like that doesn't bother me, Idon't think of that, I don't
even right.
And then when we get intoeither both and EMDR and or
homeopathy, these things comeforward and it's like holy crap,
(23:01):
this has been.
You know, it's like thecornerstone or like a major
pivotal moment for someone.
That gets internalized as anegative belief about self and
then we live life from thatplace.
It's like lurking in theshadows of our subconscious and
you don't even realize it.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Well, I just think it's funny that my major
breakthroughs in both our EMDRtime together and our homeopathy
time together have been on likelittle asides.
You know one of them was soinconsequential to my life I
didn't even tell you.
You read it on my Instagramstory.
But you know these littlethings.
(23:38):
I mean, have you ever been in?
Yes?
The answer is yes, you've beenin a conversation and you know,
you start talking and then itkind of shifts a little bit.
Oh, and you didn't know thatthat thing happened.
Oh, and then this happened.
And then oh and you didn't knowthat that thing happened.
Oh, and then this happened.
And then, oh, did you know, myhusband does this?
Speaker 1 (23:58):
And then this and you're like wait, how did we get
here?
And I feel like it's the samething with healing, you know.
Okay, so you've already sort ofreferenced this, but as someone
who's both strategic andintuitive we haven't mentioned
this you are an artist.
You are also a flower farmer,but you're an artist and you
paint and the things that youcreate are just so beautiful and
you don't just create inpainting like you create with
food and you create with so manythings.
Right, but as someone who'sboth strategic and intuitive,
(24:20):
how did either of thesemodalities EMDR or homeopathy
challenge or affirm yourrelationship with control or
surrender?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yeah, I'm not going to say I'm like the Uber type, a
control freak, but I do veer inthat direction.
So not knowing what's going tohappen next is not my favorite.
You know, In terms of EMDR, Idon't feel like I was as
(24:50):
challenged with that.
It was very clear cut what wasgoing to happen.
You're like okay, we're goingto do this, we'll do this for a
little bit and then we'll talk,and it was like I knew it was
coming, even though, if I didn'tunderstand the process, it was
fine and it was all in acontainer, right, we had our
hour together.
All in a container, yeah, youknow what I mean, so that didn't
(25:13):
feel as much.
I mean, did I have to trustthat you knew what you were
doing?
Yeah, but I mean you're aprofessional Dawn.
I hope I trust what you'redoing.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
You know like.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I mean I'm sure people do come to you.
I don't understand how thatdon't trust you, but like I
guess that probably happens.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
It does happen actually, like I saw someone
today who I've seen for yearsand she was not trusting me in
the last three sessions andthat's a dissociative part,
that's part of complex trauma.
That part was forward right andthat part couldn't trust.
So, yes, it happens.
Okay, carry on.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
It's weird to me, although I don't know.
I mean, I definitely like oneof my doctors for my shoulder.
I ended up not going back therebecause I didn't trust them.
So, I guess people do go topeople that they don't trust.
But anyway, it was differentwith homeopathy, I guess, is the
is the short answer.
I, as previously mentioned, washealthily skeptical about it.
(26:00):
Uh, my dad would still today belike, yeah, that's quack
science.
Oh well, he said that aboutessential oils as well and the
only thing that would stop oneof his muscle spasms was that
deep blue, so you know grain ofsalt here.
But I mean that's like how Iwas raised.
You know, like medical scienceis where you go to Western
(26:20):
medical science, right, and theprocess of just taking a pellet
under my tongue or taking a sipof water.
You know what I mean.
It doesn't feel good like itshould work, but I can still say
that today I know it does.
Now I've changed my opinion,but it doesn't feel like it
(26:41):
should.
It feels very placebo-y yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
And I love your experience with that because if
it was placebo, you would havehad the same result from all,
however many remedies we've used.
Right?
And that wasn't the case, yeah,so super interesting.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yeah, even my seven-year know, my, my
seven-year-old even, like rightbefore he left, I was like, oh,
go, go, take your sip, you know,because we're doing something
with him right now.
And he's like, why are we doingthis again?
Like, we do this because itworks, and that's all I can say.
I don't really know how to sayit.
So typically, when I getinterested in something, I do
the deep dive and all the thingson how it works and all the
stuff, and I'm just trusting youto do that for me, which is a
(27:18):
huge moment of surrender.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
It's a big deal.
It's a big deal.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
I would normally need to know all the things about it
, like when I decided to do thedahlia farm, right, like girl,
if you want to talk for 45minutes on how dahlia genetics
work, I mean I can do that, yeah, do I need to do that to grow
(27:44):
pretty flowers?
I do not, yeah, but that's kindof just how I operate and I've
had to release some of that.
And then just, especially withall the different remedies we've
done, and I'm like, well, Imean like maybe I felt like a
little bit like this, but Idon't, I don't really think
anything changed.
Or I remember the first time wetried sulfur, you had told me
as a warning, just because youknew I had stuff coming up.
You're like you, you might feela little explosive after this.
And then, when I didn't feelexplosive, I was like where's my
explosion?
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Yeah, you know Well, but then let's talk about what
happened when you took the opium.
Because you were not, I was notyour favorite person that day.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
No, that was a nasty, nasty crap load of like that
was bad.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
It was bad.
You got a terrible headache andyou're like this is I mean, I
couldn't hear you because youtexted it, but I could hear you
right, this is what we werelooking for.
Like this you wanted to do this.
Yes, horrible headache, right,you said it was like all night
long, like kept you up, like itwas so painful.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah, I think it was a Sunday, if I recall, but I
felt like the headache brewingSaturday, sunday morning,
whatever it was, and by midday Iwas like, no, screw this, I
need to take some ibuprofen.
And I've been really trying tonot mess with my gut and not
take ibuprofen, and even likethe anti-inflammatories I use
for my shoulder are all herbalbecause I'm trying to heal all
(28:53):
that.
But this was not that moment.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
No, no, and that's right, and that level of pain
isn't good for healing either.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
So, yeah, so I took the ibuprofen and you know it
did start working, but it was.
It was one of those workingswhere you still feel all the
pressure in your head.
Yes, it's not painful, but youknow that headache is there, is
there, and even the next morningI still felt like remnants of
the pressure.
It wasn't as intense, it wasclearly waning, but I was like
so apparently things needed toleave my body.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Things needed to leave.
That's right.
Yeah, it was an exorcism.
And this is the thing aboutboth EMDR and homeopathy that
are sometimes hard to warnpeople about, because what do
you do on the front end and saylike this could be one of the
most uncomfortable things youever experienced in your life,
but I promise it'll be worth it.
But that's sometimes thereality is right, it's.
We have been sort of trained inWestern medicine to take a pill
(29:44):
and your symptoms disappearbecause we've suppressed them
but we've cured or healednothing.
And that's not.
I don't mean that.
So black and white, right, likemy husband has two replaced
hips, like thank God he wouldn'tbe able to walk without his
replaced hips.
I'm not anti-medicine right atall at any stretch, but more
often than not we medicate tosuppress and we've gotten used
to that.
(30:04):
And then when healing actuallyinvolves expression and detox or
metabolization of things thathave been stuck for a very long
time, it can be deeplyuncomfortable, whether it's EMDR
or homeopathy, either one.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Yeah, and for me at least and I know this is going
to be different for everybody Ididn't have that experience with
EMDR.
I was like, oh, that feelsbetter.
I remember you asking me likewhere do you feel that in your
body?
I don't feel it anymore.
But there was no like paingetting rid of it.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
I mean, the healing is still painful, obviously.
Do you remember like a lot oftimes people have dreams or
nightmares or I think I did noand then a lot of times people
will not sleep well the nightbefore their EMDR session
because they know they're goingto have to touch stuff that I
think you were so ready to putthe things down, though.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Yeah, I think that's the case.
I think by the time I reachedout, like before we did any of
that, I was very much in thelike.
No, no, I am a strong andcapable person.
I can fix this myself.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Preach, that's what everybody says yes, yes, it's
not but yeah, I, I think you'reright.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
I was so ready for it and then you know, I had those
few sessions after my friendspassing and and you helped, they
helped.
I was doing so much better thatwhen I reached out to you the
second time for for therapy,emdr, right like I already knew
that what I was going to ask forwas going to occur, I knew what
(31:33):
to expect right like so I don't.
I don't think I had any anxietyabout that but again I was in a
place that was very low both ofthose times that I reached out.
So I was pretty desperate andwith some of the homeopathy
treatments it's been more likewe're chipping away at things.
There's been no like find mesomething for this and and, and
you know, now I'm morecomfortable reaching out to you
(31:54):
and being like, hey, so thisthing's happening, what.
Reaching out to you and beinglike, hey, so this thing's
happening.
Uh, what do we do?
But I'm not coming to you withfor that from a place of deep
dark, whatever right likebecause we already moved it
exactly, exactly.
Yes, and even like my son thatwe're working through things
with right now.
Right like you know, he's stillbeing seen by, you know medical
(32:17):
doctors as well for variousthings, and you know
everything's being done inconcert which I love that's like
do we have bad moments with him?
oh yes, oh yes, there are badmoments, but but it's not like
I'm expecting homeopathy to be amagic pill that just makes them
all go away, although that iskind of what happened that's
(32:37):
what happened with your shoulderright, but it's right's right,
but it's layer by layer, andsometimes it's that magical one,
and also, if I may mention,pans or pandas like complex
kiddos.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Right, he is a very unique, complex kiddo, and there
are so many more of those inthe world these days.
And you, that's a whole notherpodcast episode Right, which we
could do about, you know,mothers and complex kids and
divorce, because that is itswhole own episode Right.
But those situations they do,they take longer, they're a
little trickier to find.
(33:09):
What is the magic thing, andit's going to be a little of
this and a little of that andit's, it's a journey, yeah, yeah
.
So okay, now that you've hadboth of these experiences EMDR
and homeopathy, like when youare having, let's say, a bad day
these days the voles they'renot going to eat your flowers
(33:29):
this year, but or like whateverwith your family, or anything,
right, friends?
What do you come back to now?
Like what?
How do you see your life, yourcircumstances, bad days today,
compared to before you dideither of these modalities?
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Um, I mean, I think it'd be really fair to say I was
coming at everything from aplace of victimhood.
Um, in the past, and I'm Iprobably still lean that
direction, but it's easier forme to come at things with more
curiosity now.
Um, okay, I'm feeling like this.
All right, what is leading upto this?
What can I do about this?
(34:05):
What is in my control?
What is out of my control,which feels much more well
adjusted than maybe I was acouple years ago?
But, um, but even like thismorning, right, like I texted
you and I was like all right, mydad's wife had her knee
replaced yesterday.
She's in a lot of pain.
What can I bring over that Ialready have in the house, I
think coming at it from a placeof curiosity now, rather than
(34:26):
this bad thing happened.
What did I do wrong to causethis?
Or woe is me.
Why does this stuff alwayshappen to me?
So I'm not saying I'm perfectand all of that of that, but I
am able to separate.
I remember the first time youasked me this is back in the
EMDR, like early times, where doyou feel that in your body?
(34:48):
And I was like I don'tunderstand the question like
rephrase and you rephrase and Iwas like, yeah, no, try again.
Like because I was so separatedfrom that awareness I didn't
even know how to answer thatquestion.
I was having emotional pain.
What do you mean?
Where do I feel that in my body?
The emotional heart's fake?
What are you talking about?
(35:09):
I mean not fake.
Obviously I had emotions, but Ididn't even know where to look
inside myself for that for that,whatever, and now that that is
like the first thing I think of.
Okay, so where am I feeling thiscool?
What can I do about it?
Yeah, in these situations withthe friend group that I've had
(35:30):
to walk through over this lastyear, I know when I'm feeling
elevated.
You know, like, if you've everheard like the allergy, you know
cup, and like like analogy,right, the, you know we're never
completely not allergic toanything.
Sometimes our cup is empty,sometimes your cup is half full.
(35:50):
So if you have an encounter orsomething you are allergic to,
if your cup's already half full,you're going to have a bigger
reaction than last time, andI've been able to apply that
analogy to interacting withpeople that are hard like okay,
I know, on fridays I'm alreadyelevated oh, so you can plan
your life differently, uh-huhyeah yeah, and and even, like
(36:11):
you know, a couple of times whenwe were trying a few remedies,
like okay, let's, let's do this,I'd be like, cool, I'll try it
saturday.
Like uh-huh that, I'll try itSaturday.
Like that's right, that's right,yeah, and it wasn't like, oh, I
have the weekend, I could tryit.
No, I have different stressors.
On the weekend, I'm with mykids and my husband and we're
trying to get projects done andwe're trying to do all the
things right.
But I knew that certainstressors are different than
(36:31):
other stressors and I was ableto plan better.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
So all this nuance.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Okay, I'm going to ask you a big, messy, wide
question that's less about youand is more about our lovely
listeners, but I feel like oneof the things that makes this
conversation magical is you havethe opportunity to speak on
some of the things we talk about, sometimes internally right,
like why?
What would you say to a womanwho's considering working with
(36:59):
us, you know, either in ourpersonalized program or trying
something they haven't triedbefore, or they're feeling a
healthy dose of skepticism, andespecially because there are so
many coaches you can't see me,but I just did air quotes, which
may have been maybe, I don'tknow.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Your voice, your voice right.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Well, what would you say to a woman out there where
you know who's in those darkplaces you described right, and
there are so many people makingclaims on the internet.
What would you say to her?
Speaker 2 (37:33):
I think what I would say to her is there's reason to
be skeptical, absolutely,absolutely?
Say to her is there's reason tobe skeptical, absolutely,
absolutely?
But if you're not doing well asis, it's time to try something
different.
And and for me, and and allthree of the separate instances,
situations, whatever you wantto call that I've come to you
with me like I need help here.
(37:53):
I was not handling it well onmy own and maybe I thought if I
waited long enough it would justeven out by itself.
But what's the harm to peoplearound me?
During those time periods Aftermy friend passed, I was carrying
so much guilt and everythingthat I was not being a good
(38:14):
mother.
I basically stopped working, mybusiness started tanking,
that's, income for the family.
All of these things wereaffected because I wouldn't deal
with it and I thought I couldhandle it on my own.
And some of the things thatyou're dealing with in a divorce
in particular are verydifferent than some of the
things I've been talking abouthere.
But what is the same is Iwasn't handling it and I did
(38:38):
need outside help and I did needoutside guidance, and in
different ways, right like if wehad tried just homeopathy that
first time when I was dealingwith my friend's passing.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
I don't know what would have happened like I
different things at differenttimes you you needed like some
immediate stabilization, right,something that was going to move
the needle quickly.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
But but how could I have known that without having
the training?
Or even if I were someone whohas you know um therapy, or you
know counseling or you knowpsychology training?
Speaker 1 (39:13):
you can't always see.
How can you do that to yourself?
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Right Like you don't really see yourself the same way
people on the outside do, andyou don't hear yourself.
That's it.
You don't hear yourself you know, like I've known for well,
since I fractured my hip when Iwas 15, so you know 25 plus
years I've known I have a muchhigher pain tolerance than the
average person.
It's it's so internalized to meit's just normal.
(39:38):
Why would I bring that up?
That's just a little quirk thatI have.
You know what I mean.
So like you need someoneoutside of you to kind of pick
at those little things thatreally unravel all the other
things.
You know, it's that thread thatyou pick out on your sweater and
then the whole dang thing comesunder.
But you need to do that to getto what's underlying.
So that's that's what I wouldsay to people um out there who,
(40:02):
who, yes, are seeing oh, justanother practitioner, or oh,
just another coaching program.
And to me I would say it's notjust enough.
Having been on the inside ofyour team, for you know for a
while, off and on, and then youknow consistently for the last
several years, I know how muchvalue is in it.
I know what you bring to thetable, I know what everyone
around you brings to the table,and the people that are hiring
(40:24):
you get so much more than theythink they're actually getting.
But from a personal perspective, I would say, if what you're
doing right now isn't workingand you aren't at the level that
you want to be at, and you knowthat you can be a better person
, more well-adjusted, more happy, more ready to be present with
those that you love around you,do better at work, do better
(40:45):
with your kids, all of thatright Then you owe it to
yourself to explore that more.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Mm-hmm.
I love how clear it is to youabout that self-reliance piece,
right, and yeah, how clear it isto you about that self-reliance
piece, right and and yeah, thedownstream effects of that,
because and I think for methat's always been about
protecting vulnerability orcontrol or shame like something
about that right Like it justfeels like such a I don't know
to me, like a like failure forme, that right and and and it's
(41:18):
not, but that is how it feelsfor me and I've always had to
just take a deep breath and likejump off the cliff and be like,
well, I guess we're gonna feelthose feelings now yeah, and, if
I may you know, we became muchbetter friends, like through
COVID, right, because everyone'srelationships are on zoom so it
doesn't actually matter thatI'm across the country from you,
right, like.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
But also that time period I was relying on myself a
lot, just in that first year,2020, we lost all special
services for my son.
My husband got laid off andthen my parents separated and I
was suddenly homeschooling notdistance learning, actually
legit homeschooling my older kidand I mean it blew up.
Friends I had had before wereno longer friends because, you
(42:00):
know, all of a sudden politicsdictated how you can be friends.
And I didn't have anyone, so Icould only rely on myself and my
husband, but like he was goingthrough his own stuff you know
all of that was just Wow, we didright.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
We had a lot of long talks.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
We did.
And you know, like that Ishould be able to fix it myself
thing may have always beeningrained in me, but I feel like
those last couple of years,before you and I actually
started working together on menot just on your business, but
on me as a person had reallydrilled that in.
So it wasn't just like, oh I, Ishould be able to fix this
myself.
It was.
It was more like I'm the onlyone I can trust to fix this
(42:36):
myself.
It was more like I'm the onlyone I can trust to fix this
myself.
And I had to get over that too.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Yeah, Thank you so much for everything you shared,
for just your openness, yourvulnerability, your way of
seeing it, like your skepticism.
Thank you for your skepticism.
Like I mean, you have no idea,it's like such a joy to know
that we have a convert.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Converts.
Oh, not a word, I love, butwe'll go with it.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Anything else you want to add before we wrap up.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
No, I think we've covered it all, we did it right,
yeah, we did it.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
Dear Divorce Diary is a podcast by my coach John.
You can find more atmycoachjohncom.
I am very excited to introduce you all to my dear
friend, brittany Gardner,someone who influences your life
regularly but you've never met.
Hi, love, welcome to DearDivorce Diary, the podcast
helping divorcees go beyond talk.
Therapy to process your grief,find the healing you crave and
(00:23):
build back your confidence.
Therapy to process your grief,find the healing you crave and
build back your confidence.
I'm your host, dawn Wiggins, atherapist, coach, integrative
healer and divorcee.
Join me for a fresh approach tohealing grief and building your
confidence after divorce.
(00:44):
So, quick intro Brittany and Imet in 2018-ish at a conference
and we started working togethershortly thereafter.
She helps create content, right, so she helps.
She does so much of our socialmedia now and she creates the
publishes the blogs on the blogpage.
And, right, she's been such ahuge part of building this brand
, launching the podcast integral.
(01:06):
Right, we planned the initialpodcast episode.
Like, you were such a huge partof the podcast launch.
Wow, that just like cameforward for me as we're talking
about it.
Yep, like you're, like you werelike the doula of the podcast.
Wow, I didn't even wow, okay,so, yeah, you have profoundly
influenced all these women'slives.
You happen to be divorced andremarried, which just sort of
(01:28):
makes you like even better fiton the team, right, but that's
not actually why we're talkingtoday.
our time together like lifelifed, and we've had the opportunity
for you to experience both EMDRand homeopathy and we're
probably, dare I say, skepticalabout both 100% Yep, as we were
(01:53):
sort of talking about the growththat we're leaning into in the
organization and planning tohelp teach people more about all
these modalities and thesethings, it was, like all of a
sudden very clear that you and Icould have this conversation
that would help peopleunderstand both modalities.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, you're not wrong at all in saying I was
skeptical Maybe a little lessskeptical of EMDR.
I just didn't understand it, Ijust didn't know about it.
Like there are plenty of timesin life you just don't know
enough about something toactually say, yeah, let's
wholeheartedly believe in thatthing.
You know, but homeopathy wasnot on my bucket list.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
So you know, yeah, so today we're going to talk about
both these modalities andyou're courageous enough to come
and talk about it, which I'mjust so grateful for, right?
So let's just kick it off with,like tell us about, tell us
your story.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Cool.
Yes, I was divorced.
I got divorced when I was 25.
I have been remarried for 14years.
I can do math Probably we'llnever hear this.
So that's fine and we'rehappily married.
You know, that's not really abig part of the story story, but
I do have that background andall the fun stuff that comes
(03:08):
with.
You know, having dealt with allthat relationship stuff but um,
your parents, divorce.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
That came up more than, oh, yeah, your own divorce
, yeah, well, that was much morerecent.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
My parents, that's true, are one of the uh famous
2020 split couples.
They've been married for 40years.
So you that was fun beingalmost 40 and suddenly having
your parents go through aseparation and then divorce,
especially since I didn't knowanyone like me.
Everyone I knew who haddivorced parents did it when
(03:37):
they were, you know, eight or 15.
And I just didn't have anyoneto relate to being a fully grown
adult with your own familysuddenly doing that.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
That's such a good point.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, that was an interesting time.
But, like you said, we'd knowneach other, We'd been working
together off and on at thatpoint for a little while and my
friend passed in a rather abruptway and I was not handling it
well, in a rather abrupt way,and I was not handling it well
and you, my therapist friend,very gracefully said you know,
(04:12):
I'm here, you know if you need.
And I was like oh no, no, Ineed, but I'm not ready.
And then I was ready.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
And yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, and now of course I'm tearing up because
you know things don't go awayjust because you've dealt with
them, right?
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Yeah, and now of course I'm tearing up because
you know, things don't go awayjust because you've dealt with
them, right?
No, I think that's.
The thing is, we're still humanwith emotions and grief is a
super appropriate emotion.
Yeah, for you, the grief wasstuck.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yes, I couldn't move at all, like not even move on,
like moving on was like a loftygoal, but just move would have
been great anywhere like off mycouch, for example, and so I
didn't like step in and likebecome your therapist.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I mean, I did, but but that's sort of the cool
thing about EMDR is, we wereable to do a handful of sessions
and you were able to experiencesome, some pretty significant
shifts.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah, and you know like it's not that I didn't
believe in what you do I'd readyour testimonials.
I was using your testimonialsfor copywriting, yeah yeah.
So it's not like I didn'tbelieve in what you do, it just
it never occurred to me thatjust a handful of sessions with
you would help me shift out of areally dark place.
You know what I mean.
(05:24):
Like, um, and even after I meanwe had our first session and I
was like, is that all this islike I just snap my fingers and
I'm fine now, like that doesn'tseem right, and it wasn't that
like I don't want to gloss overthat, but the amount of relief I
felt after our first sessionwas just immense.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
I love that for you and it's not always that simple.
I did say that to you in theprocess.
You processed it very quickly.
Results not necessarily typical, so let's put that disclaimer
here.
I think one of the problems I'mgoing to go on a tangent here
and media and social media isvery often you'll see people
like myself or influencerstouting a result with a thing
(06:07):
and not explaining when theresults aren't typical.
Right.
So you did process very, veryquickly and you already knew,
liked and trusted me.
I did know, liked and trustedyou, which matters.
So you got to skip a wholebunch of those steps, right.
(06:30):
And let's say this was not acomplex trauma we were
processing.
Right, it was a traumatic loss,but it wasn't like it was all
wound up in, like these majorchildhood issues or decades of
abuse, right.
So it was a little cleaner thansome of the other things that
do often take people a lotlonger to work through in EMDR.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, absolutely yeah .
I experienced an event, andmaybe there were a couple of
days leading up to the event,right.
But like it wasn't somethingthat was in my formative years,
but and I needed I don't want tosay permission because that's
the wrong word I hate when Ican't come up with the right
word but I almost neededpermission to be able to move.
And you walking me through someof the things around there,
(07:13):
outside of the actual, even EMDR, portion of things, was just so
valuable and having those fewsessions just helped me process
what I had gone through.
You know, having those fewsessions just helped me process
what I had gone through, theplace I was in right now, the
place I wanted to get back to,and maybe even move beyond in
(07:33):
the future was for me.
It felt very logical and since Ierr towards a strategic logic
side, right like that made mylife decisions there easy life
decisions.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
They're easy.
So then, as I'm sort ofrecalling it all right, we did
end up talking about a numbernumber of things sort of blurs
together, like what we talkabout just like as friends and
what we were working on in theEMDR.
But we did end up talking abouta number of things, just in
sort of taking your historyright as I do, that ended up
being the things we treatedhomeopathically down the road.
So talk just a little bit likejust give us a little entree
into your homeopathy experience,yeah, so when did we start
(08:10):
homeopathy?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
A year ago Probably.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I don't know.
I think it could have even beenlonger, right?
No, because, honestly, when wedid EMDR, I had you take a
couple of things.
I did have you take a littlesepia, right, because sepia is
it doesn't.
It's sluggish, it doesn't move,you burn out, right?
So I had you take a littlesepia.
We tried sulfur.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
So we were dabbling in homeopathy when we did EMDR.
Yeah, so we were dabbling in afew of those things, um, just
some stuff I was dealing, saywhen I was in high school, but
um, like dealing with some ofthat stuff.
Yeah, we were dabbling um.
But I feel like when I startedtaking it seriously when you
said there we go sorry, dawn,but when I started taking it
seriously, all right.
So, um, the long story short is,I am a flower farmer today and
(09:00):
I got stung by a yellow jacket,a bee, something on my my
shoulder, like right on my rightshoulder, and um, the next, I
mean it hurt when it happenedbut like the next day I I
couldn't move my arm, I couldn't.
It was like stiff and it was,and I was like I don't feel like
a sting should be this bad,like this feels wrong, but it
(09:21):
was the first time I'd ever beenstung in all my many years.
So you know, what did I knowRight, and it kind of went away
a little bit.
But then two weeks later Iliterally couldn't lift my arm
and I ended up at the doctorearlier that week.
I've had a frozen shoulder andI didn't actually move my arm
without significant pain for along time after that and you
(09:43):
were like all right, we're goingto do a thing, britt, we're
going to do it.
And you were right, thank you.
Thank you so much.
I was wrong to wait first of allto even talk to you about it,
but also to be a littleskeptical because, oh, oh, you
don't even know this.
Oh, my goodness, tell me, Igraduated from physical therapy
this morning.
Do-do-do-.
Tell me, I graduated fromphysical therapy this month.
(10:04):
Do, do, do, do.
Congratulations.
So good timing that wescheduled this today.
I love that, but yeah, it'sbeen.
What are we now at Eight months?
Yeah, eight months Since thisday.
Almost nine since I got stung,Definitely eight months since I
first started medically tryingto figure out how to fix this
stupid situation.
And we've gone through.
(10:26):
I think I tried to count in myhead.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
I think we've tried like 12 different remedies
before we finally startedhitting the stuff, but that came
from us talking through randomstuff that in my opinion at the
time was completely unrelatedUnrelated, but obviously it's
all related because we'recomplicated beings and all of
ourselves talk and everything isthat that's right, and and I
(10:49):
you know your case, if I maycall it that was particularly
cool, uh, in how we found thebreakthrough which we could talk
about, uh, if you want to.
But, um, and it's notnecessarily that the remedies we
tried before, like maybe theywere right, maybe they were
wrong, we're still going to likelean into that and find out.
You know how I've been debatingsulfur, like I swear you're
sulfur, but it's like theycouldn't penetrate until we hit
(11:11):
the right thing at the righttime and so remedy selection
right.
For the naysayers who say likethis doesn't work, it's like it
really is about.
It's an art and a science.
And yeah, it can be trickysometimes to get that right
remedy at the right time.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Well, and it's.
I'm going to say this as a as aperson who's still skeptical,
not necessarily of homeopathy,but in general, I feel like I'm
a skeptic.
Yeah, you have a healthy,healthy you know we, we doctors,
practice medicine, rightPractice.
And it's interesting to me thatwe as a society allow doctors
the grace to practice and trythis and try that.
(11:47):
But homeopathy, I tried thatone time and it didn't work.
Um, or like, I mean, I stillsay that about acupuncture.
I've tried it twice and ithasn't worked either time.
So I'm like, yeah, it justisn't for me.
And you know what, if I everbecome desperate again, like
over something, maybe I wouldtry it again.
Right, but I am guilty ofsaying things like this.
I know other people around meare too.
(12:08):
Oh, I tried that once, itdoesn't work.
Now some people take it to anextreme.
I tried that work once, it didnot work.
They're all quacks.
I don't go that far.
I just think maybe it didn'twork for me or whatnot.
But yeah, it took us a lot oftries and I've watched my mom do
that with her diabetes.
Right, she was on a medicationfor years.
(12:30):
It worked great, and then itstopped working and the doctor's
like, well, let's try this, no,that doesn't work.
Let's try this no, that doesn'twork.
And three or four rounds latermaybe they find it.
But that was six months of herlife and we allow doctors with
MD degrees to do that, but wehave to allow other people to do
that too.
Well, said Like I know how totalk to people like me.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Healthy skeptics Healthy skeptics.
Yeah, yeah, okay, all right.
So homeopathy works on layersthat aren't always linear or
logical.
What was one change that younoticed that felt almost too
subtle to explain but impossibleto ignore.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Okay, so previously mentioned drama with friends,
right, I had this thing and it'snot worth going into here, but
I fired some of my friends.
They weren't being good friendsand I called them out on it
because I'm blunt and I dothings like that and it didn't
go well and then everything blewup and I didn't handle it all
(13:32):
that well.
It's not fun feeling like thepeople you value so much don't
value you at all and that's abitter pill to swallow, that's
the best way to really say it.
But I still have to be aroundthese people and, to be fair,
pill to swallow Like that's thebest way to really say it, but I
still want to be around thesepeople.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
And, to be fair, brittany, I think a lot of women
listening right now aregrateful to hear you saying all
of that, like I think that's apath they're walking right now.
Right, so I think what you'resaying probably resonates, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah, yeah, I had just had lunch with a friend
today who she got divorced a fewyears ago and she lost a lot of
her friends through the processand I was like she's like one
of those friends that you'relike friends with but you really
only see once a year.
So I was like I'm so sorry thathappened to you.
I hate that that happened toyou, but I think a lot of people
are dealing with it, right.
Yeah, so I still had to seethese people, unfortunately
(14:17):
because of stuff, and I knew Iwas going to have to see them
for an extended period of time,fairly regularly, regardless of
the fact that I had pulled backfrom relationships that that
weren't very good to me and thatfelt yuck, that felt gross,
like I felt anxiety every time,like you had to be in the room
(14:38):
with them and I asked you.
I was like I need something Ican just take when I'm feeling
anxiety.
Like I did use it like thatonce a week when I needed it and
then I just stopped, like Ididn't even remember to take it
because I didn't feel like Ineeded it anymore.
And that was a big aha, win,right, Like that was one Another
(15:00):
.
I remember I actually textedyou this one.
I don't remember the exacttiming on it, but I texted you
and I was like I had to do areally hard thing today and I
did it and I'm not drowningafterwards.
I'm not feeling like I'mhungover afterwards, like
hungover from like that Emotionsknow from like the situation.
(15:26):
Um, and that was actually, if Irecall again, I don't remember
the exact time I feel like thatwas around the time we started
really trying to hit my shoulderwith yeah, that was post arnica
of all things like.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, right, so so let me just tie some pieces
together, if I may, please.
Okay, so so britney's case wassuper interesting because and
you can maybe explain some ofthis but she experienced this
major injury in high school andmajor injury in high school and
it resulted in surgeries andmedications and x-rays and all
(15:54):
these things, and so we tried it.
I think I even tried somereally like esoteric remedies
with you or we talked about itat least like x-ray, right, like
there are remedies made.
We did, we did try to x-ray,yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, yeah.
So long story short, Ifractured my hip when I was in
high school, just a stupid,freak accident.
And you know, since 15-year-oldfemales don't do that, I had to
have like multiple MRIs andx-rays and, I think, a CAT scan
and then two years later Ideveloped a hernia, an inguinal
her, and again, 17-year-oldfemales don't get hernia Do that
(16:30):
.
So they didn't know what to do.
So I saw, like all thespecialists, like I was still a
virgin and I had like agynecological visit you guys.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
It was horrible, Horrible.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
You know.
But I had to see all thesedifferent specialists and like
so much imaging and I wassitting in anatomy and
physiology, which I took as ajunior, like that spring it was,
after all, my like, it wasafter the surgery that found the
hernia.
But, um, I was sitting in thereand we were talking about
radiation.
I was like wait a second,because my textbook actually
(17:00):
said how much you like pick upfrom each one of these things
get exposed to I was like youguys, I'm radioactive literally.
I was like 17 and radioactive.
So yeah, that came up justanecdotally with you one time
and you're like huh screenshotsof like you know things and I
was like that fits, that fits,that fits.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
We did, um, some kind of funky remedies there, and
then we did arnica um, but thereal breakthrough was opium I
know, but arnica was the one,and so this is just a note right
, because Arnica, like it's theremedy most people are familiar
with because they can pick it upat Publix or whatever I don't
know, kroger, you know, I don'tknow the muscle rub aisle or
whatnot.
So and that is homeopathic andit's for trauma, physical and
(17:45):
mental, emotional, recent andremote.
And so when you were dealingwith the friend things and we
did some high potency Arnica,probably we did a, we actually
probably did a blend ofpotencies but did some high
potency Arnica, that's when theemotional started shifting and
that's when you went to thefriend thing and had to do the
hard thing and it didn't drownyou.
So it's like the Arnica brokethe case, which is really
(18:09):
fascinating.
And then, yes, the shoulderthing, which was just something
I saw you say on your socials.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yeah, I said and actually I just saw this on
Mother's Day because I waslooking through my old stories
to find a specific picture Isaid something along the lines
All right, so I had an injectionin my shoulder back in November
and I started PT in Decemberand I was making good progress
and then, all of a sudden, Iwasn't.
All of a sudden, my shoulderstarted to like try and refreeze
(18:37):
, which was really annoyingbecause I'd been working so hard
, and it came out.
I have a very high paintolerance, which I've known
forever, but it came out thatyou know, if I didn't have such
a high pain tolerance, maybe Iwouldn't have been pushing my
shoulder too hard with my PTexercises and re-injured it
essentially.
And I posted something aboutthat on my Instagram stories and
(18:58):
you were like that's it.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
And there we were, and I think I had just shipped
you a box and I was like now Ihave to ship another box.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
You did yeah, cause you had just that morning ship.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
But it's Okay.
So here's something that'sreally interesting.
Yeah, and I don't know thatthis is going to land, because
it's like in the weeds clinicalbrain, like clinician brain,
right.
So opium as a homeopathicremedy is useful for people who
you know have injuries and painissues, but also it's so useful
(19:32):
for dissociation, which we seewith complex trauma, right.
And what's interesting is I usethat remedy a lot with my
trauma clients now as an openerbefore I do EMDR, because the
results in EMDR are often betterwhen we can peel back some of
(19:52):
that dissociative stuff.
Then you can get into yourfeelings and you can actually
work through some things.
So it's just so interestingthat now there's a handful of
remedies I use for dissociation,depending on you know the
presentation and what the personneeds.
But it's fascinating that yougot such good results from EMDR
while needing opium down theroad.
It's very interesting, or?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
maybe I was just so primed for the EMDR at the time.
We're like, we're going to dothis, regardless of the fact
that you haven't been opened.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah All this stuff was right on the surface.
Okay, let's do an EMDR question.
So, emdr, it sometimes, often,almost always, reveals memories
that feel minor to you beforeyou do EMDR, but hold major
emotional weight once we getinto the processing.
So were there any?
I know the answer right, butwere there any small memories
(20:41):
that surprised you in theirhealing importance, however much
you want to share about?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
that.
So when I was in fifth grade,my mom had a brain surgery.
She had an abscess andbacterial meningitis and a staph
infection all at the same time,which is like a really fun
cocktail.
Last we had heard, which wasforever ago, they still studied
her case in medical conferencesbecause it was supposed to be
impossible and my family justgets real lucky with some of
(21:08):
those impossibilities but theydidn't know what was wrong.
She had had a dental visit andhad a horrible headache and over
the weekend it got worse andshe was just not good and they
went to the dentist and then hesent it to an oral surgeon and
he was like, yeah, not me,neurosurgeon.
And he was like, cool, you'rein the hospital now.
And it just got worse.
It took them a while to figureout what was going on and
(21:29):
probably another case forradioactive Uh-huh, uh-huh, I
had to guess.
But during that time periodthis was.
This all started at thebeginning of May, so it was like
right on through Mother's Dayand you know like when you're in
elementary school, what do youdo at school the week before?
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Mother's.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Day, you get to slave over the Mother's Day card,
right?
So I'm the oldest of threegirls.
My youngest sister was tooyoung to even go to the hospital
and it wouldn't have been, youknow a thing.
But Lindsay and I who's twoyears younger than me went, my
parents' friends, we werestaying with them, and they
brought us to the hospital forMother's Day and I was like so
(22:06):
excited, thinking, you know, mycard was going to magically heal
my mom, because you knowchild's brains right.
Or maybe I didn't even think itwas going to magically heal my
mom because you know child'sbrains right.
Or maybe I didn't even think itwas going to heal her.
I just thought she wouldactually like be happy to see it
.
But she was in a lot of painand as an adult I can see
exactly what happened.
But she just tossed it asideand I was like really mad at her
(22:26):
about it for a very long timeand that came up in my view at
the time very unexpectedly.
But now now, like you know, acouple of years after we've done
all this and I've done evenmore healing, I'm like, well, of
course that came up.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Right, of course that came up.
Yeah, but it's so interesting,right?
Because if I had a dollar forevery time, someone said to me
like that doesn't bother me, Idon't think of that, I don't
even right.
And then when we get intoeither both and EMDR and or
homeopathy, these things comeforward and it's like holy crap,
(23:01):
this has been.
You know, it's like thecornerstone or like a major
pivotal moment for someone.
That gets internalized as anegative belief about self and
then we live life from thatplace.
It's like lurking in theshadows of our subconscious and
you don't even realize it.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Well, I just think it's funny that my major
breakthroughs in both our EMDRtime together and our homeopathy
time together have been on likelittle asides.
You know one of them was soinconsequential to my life I
didn't even tell you.
You read it on my Instagramstory.
But you know these littlethings.
(23:38):
I mean, have you ever been in?
Yes?
The answer is yes, you've beenin a conversation and you know,
you start talking and then itkind of shifts a little bit.
Oh, and you didn't know thatthat thing happened.
Oh, and then this happened.
And then oh and you didn't knowthat that thing happened.
Oh, and then this happened.
And then, oh, did you know, myhusband does this?
Speaker 1 (23:58):
And then this and you're like wait, how did we get
here?
And I feel like it's the samething with healing, you know.
Okay, so you've already sort ofreferenced this, but as someone
who's both strategic andintuitive we haven't mentioned
this you are an artist.
You are also a flower farmer,but you're an artist and you
paint and the things that youcreate are just so beautiful and
you don't just create inpainting like you create with
food and you create with so manythings.
Right, but as someone who'sboth strategic and intuitive,
(24:20):
how did either of thesemodalities EMDR or homeopathy
challenge or affirm yourrelationship with control or
surrender?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yeah, I'm not going to say I'm like the Uber type, a
control freak, but I do veer inthat direction.
So not knowing what's going tohappen next is not my favorite.
You know, In terms of EMDR, Idon't feel like I was as
(24:50):
challenged with that.
It was very clear cut what wasgoing to happen.
You're like okay, we're goingto do this, we'll do this for a
little bit and then we'll talk,and it was like I knew it was
coming, even though, if I didn'tunderstand the process, it was
fine and it was all in acontainer, right, we had our
hour together.
All in a container, yeah, youknow what I mean, so that didn't
(25:13):
feel as much.
I mean, did I have to trustthat you knew what you were
doing?
Yeah, but I mean you're aprofessional Dawn.
I hope I trust what you'redoing.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
You know like.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I mean I'm sure people do come to you.
I don't understand how thatdon't trust you, but like I
guess that probably happens.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
It does happen actually, like I saw someone
today who I've seen for yearsand she was not trusting me in
the last three sessions andthat's a dissociative part,
that's part of complex trauma.
That part was forward right andthat part couldn't trust.
So, yes, it happens.
Okay, carry on.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
It's weird to me, although I don't know.
I mean, I definitely like oneof my doctors for my shoulder.
I ended up not going back therebecause I didn't trust them.
So, I guess people do go topeople that they don't trust.
But anyway, it was differentwith homeopathy, I guess, is the
is the short answer.
I, as previously mentioned, washealthily skeptical about it.
(26:00):
Uh, my dad would still today belike, yeah, that's quack
science.
Oh well, he said that aboutessential oils as well and the
only thing that would stop oneof his muscle spasms was that
deep blue, so you know grain ofsalt here.
But I mean that's like how Iwas raised.
You know, like medical scienceis where you go to Western
(26:20):
medical science, right, and theprocess of just taking a pellet
under my tongue or taking a sipof water.
You know what I mean.
It doesn't feel good like itshould work, but I can still say
that today I know it does.
Now I've changed my opinion,but it doesn't feel like it
(26:41):
should.
It feels very placebo-y yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
And I love your experience with that because if
it was placebo, you would havehad the same result from all,
however many remedies we've used.
Right?
And that wasn't the case, yeah,so super interesting.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yeah, even my seven-year know, my, my
seven-year-old even, like rightbefore he left, I was like, oh,
go, go, take your sip, you know,because we're doing something
with him right now.
And he's like, why are we doingthis again?
Like, we do this because itworks, and that's all I can say.
I don't really know how to sayit.
So typically, when I getinterested in something, I do
the deep dive and all the thingson how it works and all the
stuff, and I'm just trusting youto do that for me, which is a
(27:18):
huge moment of surrender.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
It's a big deal.
It's a big deal.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
I would normally need to know all the things about it
, like when I decided to do thedahlia farm, right, like girl,
if you want to talk for 45minutes on how dahlia genetics
work, I mean I can do that, yeah, do I need to do that to grow
(27:44):
pretty flowers?
I do not, yeah, but that's kindof just how I operate and I've
had to release some of that.
And then just, especially withall the different remedies we've
done, and I'm like, well, Imean like maybe I felt like a
little bit like this, but Idon't, I don't really think
anything changed.
Or I remember the first time wetried sulfur, you had told me
as a warning, just because youknew I had stuff coming up.
You're like you, you might feela little explosive after this.
And then, when I didn't feelexplosive, I was like where's my
explosion?
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Yeah, you know Well, but then let's talk about what
happened when you took the opium.
Because you were not, I was notyour favorite person that day.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
No, that was a nasty, nasty crap load of like that
was bad.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
It was bad.
You got a terrible headache andyou're like this is I mean, I
couldn't hear you because youtexted it, but I could hear you
right, this is what we werelooking for.
Like this you wanted to do this.
Yes, horrible headache, right,you said it was like all night
long, like kept you up, like itwas so painful.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah, I think it was a Sunday, if I recall, but I
felt like the headache brewingSaturday, sunday morning,
whatever it was, and by midday Iwas like, no, screw this, I
need to take some ibuprofen.
And I've been really trying tonot mess with my gut and not
take ibuprofen, and even likethe anti-inflammatories I use
for my shoulder are all herbalbecause I'm trying to heal all
(28:53):
that.
But this was not that moment.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
No, no, and that's right, and that level of pain
isn't good for healing either.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
So, yeah, so I took the ibuprofen and you know it
did start working, but it was.
It was one of those workingswhere you still feel all the
pressure in your head.
Yes, it's not painful, but youknow that headache is there, is
there, and even the next morningI still felt like remnants of
the pressure.
It wasn't as intense, it wasclearly waning, but I was like
so apparently things needed toleave my body.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Things needed to leave.
That's right.
Yeah, it was an exorcism.
And this is the thing aboutboth EMDR and homeopathy that
are sometimes hard to warnpeople about, because what do
you do on the front end and saylike this could be one of the
most uncomfortable things youever experienced in your life,
but I promise it'll be worth it.
But that's sometimes thereality is right, it's.
We have been sort of trained inWestern medicine to take a pill
(29:44):
and your symptoms disappearbecause we've suppressed them
but we've cured or healednothing.
And that's not.
I don't mean that.
So black and white, right, likemy husband has two replaced
hips, like thank God he wouldn'tbe able to walk without his
replaced hips.
I'm not anti-medicine right atall at any stretch, but more
often than not we medicate tosuppress and we've gotten used
to that.
(30:04):
And then when healing actuallyinvolves expression and detox or
metabolization of things thathave been stuck for a very long
time, it can be deeplyuncomfortable, whether it's EMDR
or homeopathy, either one.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Yeah, and for me at least and I know this is going
to be different for everybody Ididn't have that experience with
EMDR.
I was like, oh, that feelsbetter.
I remember you asking me likewhere do you feel that in your
body?
I don't feel it anymore.
But there was no like paingetting rid of it.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
I mean, the healing is still painful, obviously.
Do you remember like a lot oftimes people have dreams or
nightmares or I think I did noand then a lot of times people
will not sleep well the nightbefore their EMDR session
because they know they're goingto have to touch stuff that I
think you were so ready to putthe things down, though.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Yeah, I think that's the case.
I think by the time I reachedout, like before we did any of
that, I was very much in thelike.
No, no, I am a strong andcapable person.
I can fix this myself.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Preach, that's what everybody says yes, yes, it's
not but yeah, I, I think you'reright.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
I was so ready for it and then you know, I had those
few sessions after my friendspassing and and you helped, they
helped.
I was doing so much better thatwhen I reached out to you the
second time for for therapy,emdr, right like I already knew
that what I was going to ask forwas going to occur, I knew what
(31:33):
to expect right like so I don't.
I don't think I had any anxietyabout that but again I was in a
place that was very low both ofthose times that I reached out.
So I was pretty desperate andwith some of the homeopathy
treatments it's been more likewe're chipping away at things.
There's been no like find mesomething for this and and, and
you know, now I'm morecomfortable reaching out to you
(31:54):
and being like, hey, so thisthing's happening, what.
Reaching out to you and beinglike, hey, so this thing's
happening.
Uh, what do we do?
But I'm not coming to you withfor that from a place of deep
dark, whatever right likebecause we already moved it
exactly, exactly.
Yes, and even like my son thatwe're working through things
with right now.
Right like you know, he's stillbeing seen by, you know medical
(32:17):
doctors as well for variousthings, and you know
everything's being done inconcert which I love that's like
do we have bad moments with him?
oh yes, oh yes, there are badmoments, but but it's not like
I'm expecting homeopathy to be amagic pill that just makes them
all go away, although that iskind of what happened that's
(32:37):
what happened with your shoulderright, but it's right's right,
but it's layer by layer, andsometimes it's that magical one,
and also, if I may mention,pans or pandas like complex
kiddos.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Right, he is a very unique, complex kiddo, and there
are so many more of those inthe world these days.
And you, that's a whole notherpodcast episode Right, which we
could do about, you know,mothers and complex kids and
divorce, because that is itswhole own episode Right.
But those situations they do,they take longer, they're a
little trickier to find.
(33:09):
What is the magic thing, andit's going to be a little of
this and a little of that andit's, it's a journey, yeah, yeah
.
So okay, now that you've hadboth of these experiences EMDR
and homeopathy, like when youare having, let's say, a bad day
these days the voles they'renot going to eat your flowers
(33:29):
this year, but or like whateverwith your family, or anything,
right, friends?
What do you come back to now?
Like what?
How do you see your life, yourcircumstances, bad days today,
compared to before you dideither of these modalities?
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Um, I mean, I think it'd be really fair to say I was
coming at everything from aplace of victimhood.
Um, in the past, and I'm Iprobably still lean that
direction, but it's easier forme to come at things with more
curiosity now.
Um, okay, I'm feeling like this.
All right, what is leading upto this?
What can I do about this?
(34:05):
What is in my control?
What is out of my control,which feels much more well
adjusted than maybe I was acouple years ago?
But, um, but even like thismorning, right, like I texted
you and I was like all right, mydad's wife had her knee
replaced yesterday.
She's in a lot of pain.
What can I bring over that Ialready have in the house, I
think coming at it from a placeof curiosity now, rather than
(34:26):
this bad thing happened.
What did I do wrong to causethis?
Or woe is me.
Why does this stuff alwayshappen to me?
So I'm not saying I'm perfectand all of that of that, but I
am able to separate.
I remember the first time youasked me this is back in the
EMDR, like early times, where doyou feel that in your body?
(34:48):
And I was like I don'tunderstand the question like
rephrase and you rephrase and Iwas like, yeah, no, try again.
Like because I was so separatedfrom that awareness I didn't
even know how to answer thatquestion.
I was having emotional pain.
What do you mean?
Where do I feel that in my body?
The emotional heart's fake?
What are you talking about?
(35:09):
I mean not fake.
Obviously I had emotions, but Ididn't even know where to look
inside myself for that for that,whatever, and now that that is
like the first thing I think of.
Okay, so where am I feeling thiscool?
What can I do about it?
Yeah, in these situations withthe friend group that I've had
(35:30):
to walk through over this lastyear, I know when I'm feeling
elevated.
You know, like, if you've everheard like the allergy, you know
cup, and like like analogy,right, the, you know we're never
completely not allergic toanything.
Sometimes our cup is empty,sometimes your cup is half full.
(35:50):
So if you have an encounter orsomething you are allergic to,
if your cup's already half full,you're going to have a bigger
reaction than last time, andI've been able to apply that
analogy to interacting withpeople that are hard like okay,
I know, on fridays I'm alreadyelevated oh, so you can plan
your life differently, uh-huhyeah yeah, and and even, like
(36:11):
you know, a couple of times whenwe were trying a few remedies,
like okay, let's, let's do this,I'd be like, cool, I'll try it
saturday.
Like uh-huh that, I'll try itSaturday.
Like that's right, that's right,yeah, and it wasn't like, oh, I
have the weekend, I could tryit.
No, I have different stressors.
On the weekend, I'm with mykids and my husband and we're
trying to get projects done andwe're trying to do all the
things right.
But I knew that certainstressors are different than
(36:31):
other stressors and I was ableto plan better.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
So all this nuance.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Okay, I'm going to ask you a big, messy, wide
question that's less about youand is more about our lovely
listeners, but I feel like oneof the things that makes this
conversation magical is you havethe opportunity to speak on
some of the things we talk about, sometimes internally right,
like why?
What would you say to a womanwho's considering working with
(36:59):
us, you know, either in ourpersonalized program or trying
something they haven't triedbefore, or they're feeling a
healthy dose of skepticism, andespecially because there are so
many coaches you can't see me,but I just did air quotes, which
may have been maybe, I don'tknow.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Your voice, your voice right.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Well, what would you say to a woman out there where
you know who's in those darkplaces you described right, and
there are so many people makingclaims on the internet.
What would you say to her?
Speaker 2 (37:33):
I think what I would say to her is there's reason to
be skeptical, absolutely,absolutely?
Say to her is there's reason tobe skeptical, absolutely,
absolutely?
But if you're not doing well asis, it's time to try something
different.
And and for me, and and allthree of the separate instances,
situations, whatever you wantto call that I've come to you
with me like I need help here.
(37:53):
I was not handling it well onmy own and maybe I thought if I
waited long enough it would justeven out by itself.
But what's the harm to peoplearound me?
During those time periods Aftermy friend passed, I was carrying
so much guilt and everythingthat I was not being a good
(38:14):
mother.
I basically stopped working, mybusiness started tanking,
that's, income for the family.
All of these things wereaffected because I wouldn't deal
with it and I thought I couldhandle it on my own.
And some of the things thatyou're dealing with in a divorce
in particular are verydifferent than some of the
things I've been talking abouthere.
But what is the same is Iwasn't handling it and I did
(38:38):
need outside help and I did needoutside guidance, and in
different ways, right like if wehad tried just homeopathy that
first time when I was dealingwith my friend's passing.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
I don't know what would have happened like I
different things at differenttimes you you needed like some
immediate stabilization, right,something that was going to move
the needle quickly.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
But but how could I have known that without having
the training?
Or even if I were someone whohas you know um therapy, or you
know counseling or you knowpsychology training?
Speaker 1 (39:13):
you can't always see.
How can you do that to yourself?
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Right Like you don't really see yourself the same way
people on the outside do, andyou don't hear yourself.
That's it.
You don't hear yourself you know, like I've known for well,
since I fractured my hip when Iwas 15, so you know 25 plus
years I've known I have a muchhigher pain tolerance than the
average person.
It's it's so internalized to meit's just normal.
(39:38):
Why would I bring that up?
That's just a little quirk thatI have.
You know what I mean.
So like you need someoneoutside of you to kind of pick
at those little things thatreally unravel all the other
things.
You know, it's that thread thatyou pick out on your sweater and
then the whole dang thing comesunder.
But you need to do that to getto what's underlying.
So that's that's what I wouldsay to people um out there who,
(40:02):
who, yes, are seeing oh, justanother practitioner, or oh,
just another coaching program.
And to me I would say it's notjust enough.
Having been on the inside ofyour team, for you know for a
while, off and on, and then youknow consistently for the last
several years, I know how muchvalue is in it.
I know what you bring to thetable, I know what everyone
around you brings to the table,and the people that are hiring
(40:24):
you get so much more than theythink they're actually getting.
But from a personal perspective, I would say, if what you're
doing right now isn't workingand you aren't at the level that
you want to be at, and you knowthat you can be a better person
, more well-adjusted, more happy, more ready to be present with
those that you love around you,do better at work, do better
(40:45):
with your kids, all of thatright Then you owe it to
yourself to explore that more.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Mm-hmm.
I love how clear it is to youabout that self-reliance piece,
right, and yeah, how clear it isto you about that self-reliance
piece, right and and yeah, thedownstream effects of that,
because and I think for methat's always been about
protecting vulnerability orcontrol or shame like something
about that right Like it justfeels like such a I don't know
to me, like a like failure forme, that right and and and it's
(41:18):
not, but that is how it feelsfor me and I've always had to
just take a deep breath and likejump off the cliff and be like,
well, I guess we're gonna feelthose feelings now yeah, and, if
I may you know, we became muchbetter friends, like through
COVID, right, because everyone'srelationships are on zoom so it
doesn't actually matter thatI'm across the country from you,
right, like.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
But also that time period I was relying on myself a
lot, just in that first year,2020, we lost all special
services for my son.
My husband got laid off andthen my parents separated and I
was suddenly homeschooling notdistance learning, actually
legit homeschooling my older kidand I mean it blew up.
Friends I had had before wereno longer friends because, you
(42:00):
know, all of a sudden politicsdictated how you can be friends.
And I didn't have anyone, so Icould only rely on myself and my
husband, but like he was goingthrough his own stuff you know
all of that was just Wow, we didright.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
We had a lot of long talks.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
We did.
And you know, like that Ishould be able to fix it myself
thing may have always beeningrained in me, but I feel like
those last couple of years,before you and I actually
started working together on menot just on your business, but
on me as a person had reallydrilled that in.
So it wasn't just like, oh I, Ishould be able to fix this
myself.
It was.
It was more like I'm the onlyone I can trust to fix this
(42:36):
myself.
It was more like I'm the onlyone I can trust to fix this
myself.
And I had to get over that too.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Yeah, Thank you so much for everything you shared,
for just your openness, yourvulnerability, your way of
seeing it, like your skepticism.
Thank you for your skepticism.
Like I mean, you have no idea,it's like such a joy to know
that we have a convert.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Converts.
Oh, not a word, I love, butwe'll go with it.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Anything else you want to add before we wrap up.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
No, I think we've covered it all, we did it right,
yeah, we did it.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
Dear Divorce Diary is a podcast by my coach John.
You can find more atmycoachjohncom.
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