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************************************************************************************* Ever wonder if you’re breaking the generational cycle of pain, or just barely keeping your head above water as you parent through divorce?
If you’re in the chaos of post-divorce parenting—where emotions explode, loyalties get tangled, and everyone tells you how you “should” handle your children’s pain—you’re not alone.
Most of us never learned how to hold our kids’ big feelings and our own; we just want our children to feel safe and stay connected, even as we’re rebuilding life from the ground up.
You’ll walk away from this episode with a fresh understanding of:
- What “emotional safety” actually means for kids navigating divorce (hint: it isn’t about keeping things calm or perfect)
- Concrete, nervous-system-friendly techniques for co-regulating with your child through meltdowns and chaos.
- Powerful, real-world scripts for making deep repairs when you inevitably get it wrong.
Press play now to discover how you can show up—imperfectly, vulnerably, and powerfully—for your child, and yourself, during your messiest seasons.
Foundations: 8 Weeks to Heal, Break the Cycle, and Become the Safe Parent Your Child Needs
Post Divorce Roadmap - 21 Days of Guided Journaling
Join The list for A Different D Word, our personalized healing program.
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MyCoachDawn
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dawnwiggins/
On the Web: https://www.mycoachdawn.com
A podcast exploring the journey of life after divorce, delving into topics like divorce grief, loneliness, anxiety, manifesting, the impact of different attachment styles and codependency, setting healthy boundaries, energy healing with homeopathy, managing the nervous system during divorce depression, understanding the stages of divorce grief, and using the Law of Attraction and EMDR therapy in the process of building your confidence, forgiveness and letting go.
Click HERE To Attend Somatic Workshop For Releasing 'What Could've Been'
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On today's episode we are diving into the real,
real-life complexities ofparenting after divorce.
Not the Pinterest-perfect kind,but the messy, beautiful,
growth-filled kind.
My guest, reem Rauda, aparenting expert who's
redefining what it means toraise resilient, emotionally
(00:21):
healthy kids in the middle ofmajor life transitions.
Emotionally healthy kids in themiddle of major life
transitions Whether you'reco-parenting, solo parenting or
figuring it all out one meltdownat a time, this episode is for
you.
Hi love, welcome to DearDivorce Diary, the podcast
(00:42):
helping divorcees go beyond talktherapy to process your grief,
find the healing you crave andbuild back your confidence.
I'm your host, dawn Wiggins, atherapist, coach, integrative
healer and divorcee.
Join me for a fresh approach tohealing grief and building your
loves.
(01:08):
We are so lucky to have reemrada with us today.
She is a parenting expert known.
If you don't follow her on ig,like rush to follow her on ig,
right.
She is a parenting expert knownfor helping caregivers raise
emotionally healthy kids withoutlosing themselves in the
process.
With a background in psychologyand a heart for real-life
parenting, not perfection, sheguides families through
(01:30):
transitions like divorce withempathy, clarity and practical
tools.
Her mission is simple to helpparents break generational
cycles and build deep, lastingconnection with their kiddos,
even in the messiest seasons.
Reem welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
It is a long time coming.
I feel like to have you.
I'm super picky about guests,like super picky, and I found
you on Instagram one day and wasso excited to see your journals
.
Right, you have multiplejournals and I immediately
bought one and then featured oneof them on the podcast and then
(02:10):
that's it right.
We connected on IG and I'm soexcited.
But your content on IG is soprofoundly spot on, right.
It speaks to the heart of theissue.
You deliver a lot of very hardtruths on there and responding
positively.
Do you agree?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yes, I get a little nervous each time I press.
You know share I love hearingyou say that Because I know they
are, you know, raw and bold andyou know truth bombs.
But that's you know why I postthem.
They are truths that we need tohear and need to face and need
(02:47):
to understand and look in themirror and face these, you know
ugly truths, because these, thethis is the only way to you know
change and form.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah, talk about that a lot over here.
Number one I know our listenershave this desire to break the
cycle, but then in the cyclebreaking it often feels lonely,
hard, like endless challenges,right.
But also we talk about thatidea that a person can only grow
in direct proportion to howhonest they can be about like
(03:20):
facing themselves and the thingsthey really don't want to see
or understand about their ownselves.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Yeah, and that's what you do.
You show us our yeah, yeah, Imean.
I.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I hope it doesn't seem like it's coming from a
higher place.
It's coming from an experiencedplace of you know being at rock
bottom and you know having abreakdown, mental breakdown and
literally shattering, and thenstarting fresh and having that
experience of you know a beforeand after with my, with my child
(03:54):
because of that.
So I share it, to inspire, tohelp and to really um show that
you know they're not stuck,because so many of us, like I,
felt stuck.
I felt okay, wow, this isextremely challenging and this
is how it's going to be.
And then that's not the truthat all.
(04:15):
Once I had my moment, had myepiphany, you know, did the work
and all the stuff that's inFoundations, the journal, it's
such a it lifts weight off ofyou and you see that parenting
isn't so hard.
It isn't, it shouldn't be thathard.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
We make it hard for ourselves, I know, but I think
that and this is a differenttangent we don't need to go down
, but I think we've been soldthat lie on so many levels that
we're supposed to staymoderately sick and everything's
supposed to be.
Parenting is hard and health ishard and menopause is
everything's hard yeah.
We're not supposed to be thisout of balance or out of
(04:57):
alignment, and we're certainlynot meant to be chronically out
of alignment the way we seem tohave just been told like, oh,
that's, you're just, that's justhow it is.
Yeah, no, exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
So I have some beautiful questions for you.
So you can, you know, teach usall the things we're missing.
I love that you said it's notcoming from a higher place and I
love that you shared the rockbottom that you came from.
You know, I'm sure there'speople who are committed to
seeing you as someone who thinksthey're better than but I don't
(05:30):
read your content that way atall.
I think you share a lotvulnerably about the things
you've transformed and to meyour content reads as very
integrated, someone who'sspeaking from experience and
that and science right, and Ithink those two things combined
are so powerful.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Good.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
From that experience and that wisdom that also
science adds to it.
We talk a lot about emotionalsafety these days and I sort of
don't love that concept ofemotional safety because I think
a lot of times we too often aretrying to outsource our
emotional safety to ourenvironment right, and we have
to own that.
So I'd be so curious to hearwhat your take is.
But what do most peoplemisunderstand about creating
(06:12):
emotional safety in parenting,especially to do with divorce?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Okay.
Well, I think the idea or whatwe hear when we hear emotional
safety is calm, collected,peaceful, and that's not it at
all really especially afterdivorce or during divorce, there
is conflict, there is not a lotof calm, and maintaining
(06:37):
emotional safety during I mean,during the hard times, but
always is not about keeping thepeace.
It's about being so presentthat you allow all of those
feelings, you allow all of thosebig, big emotions, and that
your children know they can havethem, and you're not going
(06:59):
anywhere and you're not shaking,and your, your, your acceptance
and understanding I mean,that's part of it, though is
that we need that understandingto have to not self abandon.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Right To not self abandon.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Exactly.
I'm seeing a lot.
I don't know if you, I'm goingthrough a divorce right now and
my going through a divorce rightnow and my, my son, who's seven
, is having a lot of behavioralchanges and emotions and and
conflict which we would expectright.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
If he wasn't, we would say something's off.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, yes, and it's been, though, extremely
challenging, just because of thenew defiance, the new hitting
the new, all the stuff that'scoming, which is that is so not
normal in our home, and reacting, responding in a way that I
(07:57):
truly have to just go so bare tothe bone and see what is
actually happening, so that mynervous system, so my triggers,
so my ego, so my hormones, don'treact, you know.
And and he needs my emotionalsafety more than anything in
(08:18):
this whole world right now, inthose hard moments, and can I
show up, can I give it to him,can I hold him when he's
literally hitting me, or do I?
You know, I know we're humanand it's.
I've had moments where I'veyelled and I've, you know, I
just broke, because I'm gettingit from many different
(08:40):
directions right now and it'salmost impossible to, day after
day, be able to hold your childthe way they need to be held.
But let me tell you, it isextremely hard, but emotional
safety is my anchor, that iswhat I keep telling myself my
(09:01):
child needs and that's what iskeeping me anchored in that
moment.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
And so it's about holding space, it's about you
having capacity for hisemotional expression, yeah.
And then it sounds like there'sa lot of discernment involved
in knowing how to respond inthat moment, based on what's
unfolding, right.
Yeah, so how would you, forinstance because I'm sure
(09:30):
there's a redirect aroundhitting right, but knowing when
and how to implement that takesthat presence you talked about
being really, really present.
And then also, where are yougoing to dump your rage and your
anxiety and your panic and yourwhatever?
Because that's what he's doing,right, he's expressing
appropriate rage and distressand whatever.
(09:51):
But then, yes, to your point,it's like, okay, you have
cultivated this amazing nervoussystem capacity to tolerate his
big emotions without your egogetting all in the way.
But that is an energeticexchange that then you have to
discharge yourself.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yes, yeah, I've been leaning on my friends more than
ever.
I'm usually not the type tocall up a girlfriend and be like
I need you, but I am.
These days I'm like I need you.
I just need to vent.
I need to.
I need support.
I'm doing the best to keep myself-care routine like long
walks, baths.
My sleep is very important.
(10:29):
I'm meditating more than Inormally do, so I'm taking care
of myself.
Adaptogens, teas, all day youknow doing all the things.
A little story a couple of weeksago my friend had us over for a
barbecue and my son was havinga hard day and refused to get
(10:50):
out of the car and was very, youknow, kind of people watching
expecting me to, you know, bereally rigid, yeah, but
(11:12):
expecting me to be more stern,and they were seeing his
defiance as disrespect where Iwas seeing it as hurt, and
really that's underneath alltantrums is hurt, especially
around the D word.
(11:32):
So it was just so interestingfor I just felt so like this is
what the traditional Projectionsand judgments that the things
they project onto yeah.
And then my way, which iscompletely different.
It really is different, I mean,to the traditional way, and I'm
(11:55):
trying to bring people more onmy end because if I had done
what they would have suggestedor they thought I should do, it
would have broken my son in amillion more pieces than he
already was, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Right Then we have suppressed and repressed nervous
system distress in the body.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yes, yeah, and so I it's.
It takes a really bold parentto first educate themselves on
what's really going on, becausewithout that understanding, it's
all you know, it's notauthentic and it won't.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
It won't you won't have it to find.
Yeah, there's not capacityright, Information alone is not
capacity in the nervous system.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, yeah.
So we have to truly, truly seethe behavior for what it is,
which is an expression of hurtand it's not.
You know, you can't take itpersonally, you can't, you can't
get offended.
You might, but it's, I do, youknow.
(13:00):
But where is that going to getyou and then you will react with
anger and frustration and youwill just widen the gap.
So it's, it's trust.
It takes so much hard work toget there and and healing and
understanding your wounds andyour triggers and your pattern
patterns and your conditionbeliefs, and that's why, um, it
(13:24):
has to be done if you reallywant to show up, break the cycle
.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, yeah, do you ever do any somatics with your
son?
Like we're big fans over hereof like pillow throwing, like
you know, like discharging stuff, like physically?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, do you do that stuff with him?
The only thing I've done withhim.
We do breath work together,yeah, yeah, and I've taught him
to take long, deep breaths, holdit a little long, exhale.
I've told him he can punchpillows, but he hasn't gotten
there yet.
Yeah, he prefers me.
No, but it's.
It's the breath work does makea big difference and I'm so glad
(14:03):
that you know, I've seen, I seehim do it, doing it on his own
sometimes, which is great, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I love the idea of pillow punching or throwing
together Right, because then youget to discharge from your
nervous system while he does.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
I don't know what your take is on this, but my
daughter's 10.
And you know we've certainlybeen on this journey for years
and years, but sharing with her,in an age appropriate level, my
challenges to intercepting withher challenges like teaching
her.
I think I got down this, I gotto this place with her where I
thought well, if I just teachher all the tools, then she'll
(14:39):
be resourced, and if I hold allthe space, she'll be resourced.
Right, If I have all thecapacity, she'll, and then
she'll reach for the things whenshe needs them.
But I think what I saw is thathuman nature still gets in there
, right, we still want todefault to.
I want somebody to fix it forme.
And so the older she gets, themore I've had to say to her okay
(15:00):
, this is the moment where youhave to choose to use the tool
and I think there's a bigdifference between seven and 10,
but seven is really when thistop brain just starts to come
online.
From a brain developmentstandpoint, yeah.
Yeah, but also holding heraccountable for using the tools
when she would really ratherjust melt down and have me, you
know, do it for her.
(15:22):
So yeah, I've seen that Cause Ithink I told my own self that
had I been given the tools as achild, you know my life would be
different.
You know both things, maybelike I needed the tools, but
also like anywhere we can.
You know Brene Brown talksabout blame is another way we
discharge pain Right that we aspeople we love.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Oh yeah, a lot of that going on in this house
right now.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
In your house, in the world, yeah, yeah, that's the
thing.
All right, what is something achild might never say out loud?
You've already alluded to thisright, but they might never say
it or speak it out loud aftertheir parents divorce.
But they'll show us in athousand other ways, and you've
already said hurt, but tell usmore about that right.
Like what will they not say outloud, but their behavior will
(16:10):
show it?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Yes, so definitely number one is the hurt that it
is hurt.
It will come off as a lot ofparents will see it as
disrespect and rudeness andmaliciousness and spoiled
entitlement.
And it's not that at all, youknow.
So that's number one.
I also think in the divorcearena maybe they would be afraid
(16:38):
to say that they think it'stheir fault.
That would never come out oftheir mouth, probably, but they
would definitely feel what's theword Responsibility.
Yes, responsible, like I shouldhave done something different.
Yeah, or it's because of methis is happening because of me,
or he's mad because of me, andmaybe if I had done that, so
(17:02):
that and then just you know,maybe that they're not sure who
to trust or like when there's aloyalty issue.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Right, that's so big yeah.
Who to trust?
Because I think each parentassumes that they are the one
that knows better, right, andthey're sending the same message
to their kids Like no, I'm theone you should trust.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah.
Oh bless so hard.
And and one thing I've learnedI'm because I'm learning this as
I go with the divorce.
I'm not an expert in divorce atall, that's not where my
expertise lays, but I'm learningthat it's still.
It's still who we are and whatwe model and what we embody that
(17:50):
translates most powerfully thanour words ever could.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
That's right, how it feels, and I think one of the
things that I will say to youit's the long game right now,
right Is how it feels one yearfrom now, three years from now,
10 years from now.
And that consistency over timeright.
You have to trust that in thetight space it's so hard.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
It's so hard yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
But we ideally want our kids to be able to trust
both parents on some level right, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I mean they have to.
That's their need, that's acore need.
They cannot, they're not meantto choose or lose love for one
or the other or be confused ormistrust.
That's creating them todisconnect from themselves.
So it's a serious issue that wehave to navigate in this
(18:50):
process to make sure at allcosts that that inner conflict
is not happening.
But it does happen in so manyhomes so that one's a hard one
because sometimes there's nocontrol over the other.
(19:10):
More often than not, there is nocontrol yeah yeah, and then
when we try to control, it iswhen we really get stuck
ourselves yeah because then wedon't feel safe yes, so a lot of
this is, is is being you know,hyper aware, but letting go at
the same time, if that you knowwhat I mean, but letting go at
the same time, if that you knowwhat I mean.
But aren't.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Aren't most of lives like in life?
Most of the aligned paths areparadoxical.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, yeah, because we can be so attuned and so
concerned and so worried and doall the right things, but then
it can backfire if we also don'tsurrender and have faith also
in you know faith in what I'mproviding is enough.
(19:56):
My you know.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Well, yeah, and I I've never read any of your
content about this, so like, ooh, we're getting into a sassy
little place here, but I believethat the kid chooses their
parents, right, spirituallyspeaking.
That like we all come into thislife choosing our parents and
choosing our timeline andchoosing whatever right and we
can't eclipse each person's ownspiritual life journey.
(20:19):
Yeah, like we don't get to beperfect enough, mothers, that we
eclipse their need to havetheir own hero's journey.
We don't we don't get to bethat arrogant, you know.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
And.
I read this research study once, where they do you remember the
movie biodome with Pauly Shore?
That's like no, no, I neverthought.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
But anyways, um, apologies if you loved that
movie with Pauly Shore, uh, butthey, they recreated a concept
like that where they built abiodome and they tried to
recreate nature within thebiodome so that they could see,
like, can we sustain all thesespecies, all these you know
natural earth cycles inside thebiodome.
And so they were able to like,have all these species really
(21:00):
thrive, thrive in ways thatoften they do not in our natural
environment, where we takeadvantage of the environment and
all the things.
But you know what happened isthe trees ended up falling over.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Really.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Because they didn't develop the root structures that
come from the wind.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Oh, wow, wow.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Isn't that something?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Wow yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
So we need the wind, our kiddos need the wind, right,
our kiddos need the wind, andthat doesn't mean that we want
to subject them to more thanthey ideally.
But sometimes we have to trust.
Like in life, there's wind andwe cannot stop the wind.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yes, not good for them.
Oh, wow, I love that.
Yeah, it's true, and there's alot of guilt guilt, I know, for
many mothers who decide to to dowhat's best for them in terms
of their marriage and perhapsgiving it up, and I, I'm, I'm
(21:59):
very protective, as we all are,and I think taking this step is
kind of the biggest way that wecan show our children that we
also matter and our happinessmatters, and we have boundaries.
(22:24):
We have boundaries andultimately, because I know so
many of us carry guilt, for youknow what we think we're
inflicting on the child, whichthere is, we can't deny that
they are going to be inflicted,right, but that their greatest
(22:44):
interest and what we ultimatelywant to give them is much more.
And you know there is a lightat the end of the tunnel, so
it's just always yes, yes, andso I just keep that also to.
You know, there's, there'ssomething bigger, better, and
there's a reason for the windright now.
Basically, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
And we don't have to do it perfectly right, we just
have to be accountable.
And I think that's what you'retelling us when you talk about
presence yeah, being presentWithin presence.
We can be accountable.
When we set our egos aside, wecan be accountable.
Right, we are present, we canbe vulnerable and maintain
connection and we canco-regulate and do all these
beautiful things.
Right, it's, we can't block thewind, but we can be present and
(23:31):
stay connected.
And that is where safety truly,I think, comes from.
Right Is that sense of safe isconnection, connection.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah, it's such a hard place for a parent to get
to.
Naturally, I think that wake upcall, that you know that rock
bottom Sometimes I think that itonly can really hit someone
through severe grief or or likea big, huge transition or
(24:03):
something hitting them so hardthat you can't deny it or bypass
it or avoid it or excuse for it.
Yes, that your ego literallyshatters and then you see the
truth, Then you can awaken, Thenyou see.
But it's very hard to just tellsomebody that's asleep to wake
(24:23):
up.
You know what I mean.
So it's really really hard.
But if, when a parent doesstart questioning everything
their existence, their childhood, their everything that's the
greatest, greatest.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Freedom from the matrix?
Yes, yeah, I mean, that wascertainly my journey, right?
Is my ego shattered and therewas no denying it, and it was
massive grief and I had toreevaluate everything.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it's the biggest blessingin disguise.
Yes, right, yes yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Okay, what is a seemingly small parenting moment
that actually creates massivelong-term healing for kids in
any transition right, butespecially divorce?
Speaker 2 (25:12):
I think repair is probably number one and then
also getting those feelings out,just making sure.
You know, I have a ritual withmy son before we sleep every
night I say so tell me howyou're feeling, how is your
heart doing, do you, do you feelangry, do you feel upset?
Like tell me, tell me, tell, Ijust need that release because I
(25:33):
I don't want him to hold ontoit and I want him to feel safe
with everything, but also justrepair, because there's.
So when there is conflict andchaos and confusion, repair can
completely change the story thatour children hold right and it
could end the story as well.
(25:55):
Yes, right, and we don't.
I mean, I remember all mystories that are still playing
in my head from when I was sixor seven.
But if I had, if there wasrepair in my head from when I
was six or seven, but if I had,if there was repair, they might
not.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
I might not be thinking about them in my
forties Right, so I love thatyour answer was repair.
I think that's a magical.
So often I tell clients greatcircle back.
So often that's how I deal withwhen you know, I freaked out,
you know, as I circle back and Isay, you know, I've been
thinking, you know, and this iswhat I could have done better.
I'm sorry for that, or whatever.
It is Right, but you know,what's interesting is I actually
got into a fight with myhusband a couple of weeks ago,
because I don't know if yourelate to this I bet you do but
(26:38):
I have always been willing toset boundaries for her that
maybe I wasn't willing to setfor myself or I was willing to
make cycles for her before forme.
Right, I'll just swallow it,I'll handle it, I'll boost
myself.
Right, but I will advocate forher more fiercely.
Right, so there's a problem inthere also, that's a different
episode.
That's a different episode.
(26:58):
And so my daughter and myhusband got into a fight the
other day and it was sort ofthat typical thing that they
fight about, right, or that heand I fight about.
And I think we've come farenough in our healing journey to
know that we are all oftencircling the same issues, right,
but ideally from a higherperspective.
Higher perspective, right.
Our capacity is increasing.
We're chipping away at it alittle bit at a time.
(27:18):
So I like held it togetheruntil he and I were alone, as so
as to not to fight in front ofher, right, and I was like I am
so upset about X, y or Z, and hewas like, okay, and so he's
gotten really good at repair.
He's like, okay, I'm going tohandle this, I'm going to handle
that, I'm going to go talk toher, I'm going to go whatever.
And I'm like, but wait a minute, I actually don't want you to
(27:39):
repair this time.
And he was like what?
And I said, because how manytimes in the last year have you
gone back to do repair on thatthing?
But you haven't actuallyhandled the ego thing that's
coming up for you in that moment.
And then do you run the risk ofgoing and doing repair and her
(28:01):
no longer receiving repair.
You're not actually doing thebehind the scenes.
Yes, to increase your nervoussystem capacity.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah, yeah, right.
So it's like repair is such abeautiful answer, but also you
better be doing the work behindthe scenes.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yes, actually I don't .
I'm using repair, I think morebecause there's a lot of chaos
going on, you know, during adivorce and I think it's a great
answer.
Yeah, but, but I want, but Ihave to say that with my clients
and in in my practice and in myevery day, though I always tell
(28:37):
parents I'm like, but we don'twant to just know how to, you
know, turn off the fire, like weneed to stop igniting the fires
in the first place, like wewant to.
We don't just want to know howto be amazing at repair, you
want to prevent those situationsfrom happening, right as well.
(28:59):
So there doesn't need to be somuch repair at the same time,
right.
So that's again selfness.
What keeps repeating thepatterns that the patterns are
are telltale sign of what'sreally going on and what we have
to.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
And I think that if you had been a fly on the wall,
like, you would have said like,absolutely, his moment of
ignition is very much tied tohis childhood and what he didn't
get Right, and then that's whatshe's able to ignite in him,
and then, from a place ofscarcity, you're like why didn't
I get this thing, or why didn'tI feel important, or whatever
right?
That's always where we getignited in parenthood is when we
(29:35):
something we didn't get inchildhood.
Is that what I'm saying?
Yes, always, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, so interesting so interesting, I know.
Okay, what is one piece ofparenting advice you've actually
completely changed your mindabout over the years, so
something you used to believeabout parenting.
You've changed your mind aboutit over the years, and why.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Well, my first two years, my son's first two years,
I was a different parent.
I was, like you know, thetypical behaviorist you know,
and it was all compliance.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
And that his behavior was a reflection of my
parenting and that obediencemeant I was a good parent and
how much control over I had.
Him meant my parenting.
And I mean that's completelyout the window now.
Now that I know what's reallygoing on, absolutely Now, I see
behavior, as you know, a symptomof something much deeper.
(30:35):
It's a sign, it's, it's usuallya cry for help.
There's that saying if we knewnine times out of 10, if we knew
the problem, the issue behind atantrum, it wouldn't make us
angry, it would make us cry, andthat's you know.
So true, and I don't want tocome off as like no, yes,
there's still boundaries,there's still have limits, you
(30:55):
can still have rules in yourhome, and I'm not saying you
know, be permissive parent.
But I am saying that childrendeserve our understanding and
they deserve?
yes, and they deserve.
We need to reassess ourexpectations of them and we and
start having more clearunderstanding of where they are
(31:18):
developmentally and what theyare capable of capable of,
because they are fightingbecause they cannot meet our
expectations, right?
So that's, that's one exerciseI always have parents do is like
let's look at your expectations.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
And are they even?
Speaker 2 (31:38):
is the brain realistic yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, is the brain development even capable?
Does this?
Speaker 2 (31:44):
make sense and, and I said you know I there's,
there's things that, yes, yournon-negotiables around health
and safety.
Those are mine.
And toxic things I'm, you know,I have my non-negotiables, but
we have, you know, it's not,it's not a bad thing quote
unquote to be more flexible.
(32:04):
I think we need to be moreflexible.
I think we are too rigid withthat whole idea of what you know
our children, how they shouldbe, and that's just creating a
disconnect that won't.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Well, I think both ends of the spectrum are true.
I think, conversely, there arealso parents who have been so
dysregulated or don't know howto set boundaries or don't have
capacity in the other direction,and I've seen this trend, you
know, where it's like I'veraised my kids to be feral, kind
of thing, where it's like theopposite end of the spectrum,
(32:41):
where there's no wind aroundboundaries, right.
And for any type of capacityfor self-regulation.
So I do think both ends of thespectrum are out there.
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
And because, at the end of the day, children crave
boundaries.
They need them to feel safe,for safety.
Yeah, and Dr Vanessa LaPointealways says think of them like
walking crossing over a littlerickety bridge with no handrails
, like the boundaries are thehandrails and they expect them
awesome right, and they expectthem of us.
(33:13):
But I just think, of course,yes, they need them and but we
need to uphold them, not thechild.
That's up to us, we not.
That's not their responsibilityto turn off the TV at this
certain time.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
We make sure it's done.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Or we don't bring ice cream in the house if we're
going to fight about it everyday.
But at the same time, I've seenmore of the other side of too
heavy handed, too perfectionistoriented, yeah, and just just
lacking the emotional side of it, like of the why just, it's
(33:56):
just too much, what not enough?
Why Right, like they did this,but no question, why?
Why?
Why do you think they would dothat?
Why do you think they would sayI hate you?
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Well, but you know curiosity, you bring up an
amazing point, because curiosityis one of the key indicators
that we're grounded in a senseof capital, a self yes, when we
can be curious, it means thatwe're integrated, we're not
dissociated, we're present,we're grounded, we're give or
take right.
Well, and yeah, a lack ofcuriosity absolutely is a real
(34:29):
yeah.
Or as a parent, right, I am notgrounded.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Yes, and, and it's.
It's more of a robotic thingwhere, as we must be curious,
that's, that's really the answer.
Why?
Why is it so difficult for them?
Or why am I getting soactivated by this?
Speaker 1 (34:54):
I want to ask you the biggest, hairiest question that
was not in our interview preppack, and then, if you hate the
question, we can edit this out.
Where do you land on vaccinesand how they affect children's
overall nervous system capacity,behavior, emotional regulation,
all the things?
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Well, I'm not, I have to say, I'm not that educated
too much, but I did get into itafter COVID, of course, and
started getting, and I, I'm just, I'm pretty holistic, I have to
say, in terms we are superholistic over here, okay.
(35:33):
Okay, like we I didn't getvaccinated for COVID and we
don't do the flu vaccines and myson but my son was, you know
did everything except when Istarted.
When I woke up and realizedthen I stopped, actually like we
were supposed to get the secondone, I said no, it's okay.
(35:53):
And you know, I, I now I'm justmore, I'm not, I'm not.
I was kind of a sheep beforeand just did everything.
And you know, and now I'm theopposite.
I'm like, no, I'm not, you know, I'm the only one that didn't
do it and I'm, and I'm, thankGod I did it Right.
But but you know, in terms ofbehavior I could, I mean it's,
(36:19):
it's, it's mind and body are soconnected, so connected, you
cannot associate them.
Yeah, how can we, how can wesay and I've heard too many
scary stories that they don'tmake me feel comfortable at all,
and I just think it's notmisinformation, I think it's
(36:39):
information, information andcuriosity is key.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, thank you for rollingwith that question.
I think I've woken up, you know, in air quotes, multiple times.
In my life, and certainly postCOVID, I had, like you know,
another wake up right and whichis really when I started
practicing constitutionalhomeopathy, which is energy
(37:04):
medicine to recover, right, andI, as I was practicing with my
daughter, she had all these foodallergies, ocd, anxiety,
insomnia, all this stuff Right,as we started unwinding all of
that, how much of it wasactually tied?
Not all of it, not by anystretch stretch all of it, but
certainly some of what ended uplooking like behavior vaccine
(37:25):
related, so interesting yeah.
Oh wow, Vaccine-related Really.
So it's super interesting yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Wow, yeah, I'm not surprised, but yeah, it's tough.
I mean it's hard, but I also.
It's so hard, I mean, when Irefused the last one.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
It's so hard to go against.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
But then you worry, I'm like what if I'm putting my
child's life in danger by ohgirl?
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Constitutional homeopathy has all the answers.
Like can prophylax any of thediseases that are out there,
like there is homeoprophylaxisfor any and all of them.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
But yes, I think it is scary.
We need to talk about that then.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Okay, yeah, but any time you're going against what
popular culture is saying itdoes, it feels scary Like why am
I doing this differently?
I'm outside of what the tribe,yeah, and then we feel this mass
rejection which are nervousLike that's yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yeah, yeah.
But then just one thought ofactually doing it, then I'm like
no, absolutely not, you knowwhat I mean.
And I go back to like no, thisthis makes more sense, and I
feel our bodies are designed.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Okay, tell us a little bit about your journals,
right, and your favorite one,and where they came from and how
they came to be, and just giveus the rundown there.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Well, thank you.
Well, you know, bound bound wasmy first and it a parent-child
connection journal for ages 6 to12.
And so it has a question everyday for your child, something
that opens them up, that, youknow, kind of boosts emotional
intelligence and trust betweenthe parent and child and
(39:03):
self-worth, and you know a lotof different topics and just
open-ended questions.
And then each week has parentreflections for the parent which
are pretty profound into theparents, you know, growing and
becoming more aware of theenergy that they are bringing
(39:23):
into the room with their childin the relationship.
And then foundations is my mostrecent, and this is an eight
week deep healing for parentsLike this is.
It's not it's for the faint ofheart, no, because you know I go
there, we go there and I gothere hard and fast, but we
(39:44):
answer all the questions and Iwe have to, as Dr Dan Siegel
says, we have to connect thedots, we have to make sense of
our childhoods and it's not adwelling in your, in your
childhood, it's, it's a, it's ahealing guide for your parenting
, just how you parent, but ittouches, of course, on your
(40:06):
childhood so that you can makesense of it.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
And just not at all for blame.
This is not at all aboutblaming anyone.
It's about connecting the dotsand breaking the cycle, right,
yes, and we know how to do it.
I think that's so much of how Iknow.
I fell into patterns in myfirst marriage, picking my first
partner in my first marriage.
Fell into patterns in my firstmarriage, picking my first
partner in my first marriage,all the things.
(40:29):
Because I didn't know anydifferent.
I did what I thought was, quote, unquote, normal, yes, yes, I
thought I was making choicesthat were healthier because I
hadn't connected the dots in myown body, I was still
traumatized, I was stilldissociated.
Right, I hadn't done that deepdiving and so, yeah, it's not
about.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yeah, the deep dive is literally your saving grace.
Unless you do this, that innerwork and the connecting of the
dots and looking at the truthwithout the blame, because
actually it just brings you morecompassion for your parents and
their story and theirgrandparents and their story.
It's not about blame, but it'sthe most transformational tool,
(41:11):
like when I help parents withtheir kids' behavior.
We go to the inner work becausethat's what creates the most
change.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
It's not about tricks , it's not about techniques,
it's not about no, because ifthey're not integrated or
embodied right, Like you said atthe very top of the episode,
like it's not going to translate, it's not going to come across
as connection, it's going tocome across as chronic and
controlling.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Yes, and that's why I'm against quote unquote gentle
parenting, because I think it'sreally an act Unless you've
done the inner work.
It's a performance.
Sorry to go there at the end,but like it's true.
It's like you're just trying touse a softer voice when you're
raging inside and your child.
That's just dissociation, yes,and and you cannot be gentle
(41:53):
when you're full of unhealedwounds.
It doesn't, it's not possible.
You know.
It's unsustainable and the thenumber one line I've heard from
hundreds of parents I've workedwith is we tried gentle
parenting and it didn't workbecause it wasn't authentic,
there wasn't connection, yeah,which means there's a breach,
there's a rupture, an attachment.
There wasn't connection in theparent to themselves.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yes, and then how can there be sustained connection
between the parent and the child?
Yes, you can have maybe alittle more connection, but not
sustainably.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Yeah, yeah.
So the number one mostimportant job of any parent is
to heal.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Yeah, yeah, yes, I know it's like I would do
anything for my child.
Well, would you?
So I love the reason.
I think I just got so excitedabout Bound, even your first
work, and not the second one.
I think it's because whenparents, especially women, are
going through divorce andthey're in the thick of it,
right, it's like I don't haveenough capacity to, I'm not
(42:52):
fully recovered from all thesethings.
Right, I haven't completed mydeep dive, I'm not grounded, and
so bound is such a like.
Here's the curious question foryou it's already been for you
it's like.
I don't have the level ofgrounding that I'd like to have
a year or two or five years fromnow.
Right and so bound is just sortof on a platter, like here it
is.
Here's how to talk to yourchild.
Here's how to ask the questions.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
Here's the conversations to have.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Yeah Now, yeah, you don't know what to say, I think,
as a marriage and familytherapist with a divorce podcast
, right, because so many peoplecoming to marriage counseling,
they waited too long, theydidn't do the work, they didn't
do the things you know, and soso many people mess up that
(43:39):
moment of telling their kids howthey're you know that they're
getting a divorce or whatever.
Like I mess up, right, but it'sjust not well executed.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yeah, and so it is what it is.
Bygones.
Let's move on Right, and Ithink it does such a beautiful
job of creating that sort ofstructure.
Here's the roadmap for theseconversations during this season
of life, so I just thought itwas particularly suited for
women in this stage or thisThank you, yes, I could.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
It's helpful, right?
It's very kind of like takesthe weight off and just gives
you what you need to do.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
It's not already automatic, you know yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Yeah, a lot of our talk with our children is small
talk.
How was your day?
That's small talk.
They hate that question, yeah,and they never end Okay, good,
you know.
So I wanted to give questionsthat actually mean something and
open them up and make them wantto answer, and make them feel
closer and make them feeltrusted and make them feel
(44:33):
empowered and important.
You know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
What else would you add that maybe I didn't think to
bring up or that you know issuper relevant for these major
life transitions, maybeespecially divorce, and if
there's nothing, if major lifetransitions, maybe especially
divorce, and if there's nothing,if we covered it like great, I
think we've done like we'vecovered some cool stuff today.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Just that our own managing our own emotions is the
focus.
As much as things can getchaotic within our children,
it's and we can in our children,it's and we can put it on them
or just focus and dissect onwhat they're doing and how
they're behaving, we don't haveto deal with our own.
Yeah, and it's like you need tobe dissecting yourself.
(45:18):
That's who you should bedissecting, and you should just
be focusing on your behavior themost and become, you know,
become a witness to yourself.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Yeah, right, because regulating our emotions doesn't
mean suppressing or bypassing orjust containing emotion.
Right, it's about witnessingand then getting curious.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
What is this that I'm feeling?
Why am I feeling it?
What am I going to do withthese feelings, right?
Am I going to push them down oram I going to find some healthy
way to get them out?
Speaker 2 (45:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
And then make that such a habit, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
And I think and learning to sit with them as
well.
You know, yeah, like, do youhave to call someone right away
and talk to them about it, orcan you just sit and sit in in
it?
You don't feel it, and can you?
And then that will open youreyes to.
(46:13):
Can you let your child do thesame?
You know, when I see my son sad, who he has been sad lately,
can I get comfortable with mydiscomfort of?
his discomfort, you know and andand allow it.
And you know, that's the bigthing too, is is just allowing
those feelings.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
It's just I think I learned that truly for the first
time ever when I was goingthrough divorce, because I would
phone a friend, right, if I wastriggered or whatever, I would
phone a friend, some person onmy support system.
And then those moments wherenobody answered, it was like
well, shit, now what?
And then, yeah, you got to finda way to deal with that and I
(46:53):
really do think that that wasintegral to my transformation
while I was getting divorcedearly on.
I think so many people, whenthey see their kids, have
painful emotion like A.
It taps into our unprocessed,painful emotion.
So we want to stop it like rest, yes, right away.
But then there are so many of usthat want to break the cycle
that we've sort of erroneouslyfallen into this, like I have to
(47:14):
solve that for them so thatthey don't feel pain rather than
like no, actually I have toteach them how to deal with the
wind, right?
Speaker 2 (47:20):
And.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
I think we have traded resilience for like
pacification, right.
Like I want to take themsomewhere, I want to distract
them, I want to entertain them,I want to buy them something,
because if they're happy, I'mhappy, and that is the
definition of codependency.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
Yeah and yeah.
And you know tears are healing,so healthy they detox the liver
.
Know tears are healing, sohealthy they detox the liver.
And we've been told toliterally say stop crying and
stop their healing.
You know they are releasing thecortisol and the stress and and
(47:59):
and let them.
Let them, let them feel sad.
You know it's causing, you knowit's causing disease if we
don't let it out.
Right, that's right.
It's healthy first for them tofeel it.
It's a part of life.
But also we feel so much guiltand responsibility, as parents
and mothers especially.
(48:20):
But we like that's thesurrendering part where we have
to say you know, yes, they choseus, this is a part of their
story, this is I can't taketheir pain away, that's not my
job.
It's just, it's me, it's my jobto support them through it and
stay here and hold them throughit, but not take it away, you
(48:42):
know, and that's the best giftyou can give them actually.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Right.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
Love it Dream.
I am literally a fangirl.
I just admire your courage.
You say the hard things, you dothe hard things right, like
being at the party or thecookout or whatever, and doing
it differently, I know, you know, let's say like when we started
doing homeopathy and nobodyelse around was doing it, and
it's like what is happeningstarted doing homeopathy and
(49:07):
nobody else around was doing it,and it's like what is happening
, you know, like to do it verydifferently than what your
community is doing takes anabundance of courage and I'm
proud of you and I'm gratefulfor you.
There are plenty of times.
I repost your stories becausethey're things that people need
to hear, and we'll definitelyput your Instagram handle in the
show notes along with your twojournals.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Thank you so much.
We can have you back one day.
Yes, of course I would love to.
You're so sweet.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
All right, you can check out Reem in the show notes
and if there's something youwould especially like to hear
her talk about, send me a DM andwe will have her back and we
will ask her.
Whatever it is, you're in thetrenches, parenting through
divorce.
Curiosities are Dear.
(49:57):
Divorce Diary is a podcast bymy coach, john.
You can find more atmycoachjohncom.
On today's episode we are diving into the real,
real-life complexities ofparenting after divorce.
Not the Pinterest-perfect kind,but the messy, beautiful,
growth-filled kind.
My guest, reem Rauda, aparenting expert who's
redefining what it means toraise resilient, emotionally
(00:21):
healthy kids in the middle ofmajor life transitions.
Emotionally healthy kids in themiddle of major life
transitions Whether you'reco-parenting, solo parenting or
figuring it all out one meltdownat a time, this episode is for
you.
Hi love, welcome to DearDivorce Diary, the podcast
(00:42):
helping divorcees go beyond talktherapy to process your grief,
find the healing you crave andbuild back your confidence.
I'm your host, dawn Wiggins, atherapist, coach, integrative
healer and divorcee.
Join me for a fresh approach tohealing grief and building your
loves.
(01:08):
We are so lucky to have reemrada with us today.
She is a parenting expert known.
If you don't follow her on ig,like rush to follow her on ig,
right.
She is a parenting expert knownfor helping caregivers raise
emotionally healthy kids withoutlosing themselves in the
process.
With a background in psychologyand a heart for real-life
parenting, not perfection, sheguides families through
(01:30):
transitions like divorce withempathy, clarity and practical
tools.
Her mission is simple to helpparents break generational
cycles and build deep, lastingconnection with their kiddos,
even in the messiest seasons.
Reem welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
It is a long time coming.
I feel like to have you.
I'm super picky about guests,like super picky, and I found
you on Instagram one day and wasso excited to see your journals
.
Right, you have multiplejournals and I immediately
bought one and then featured oneof them on the podcast and then
(02:10):
that's it right.
We connected on IG and I'm soexcited.
But your content on IG is soprofoundly spot on, right.
It speaks to the heart of theissue.
You deliver a lot of very hardtruths on there and responding
positively.
Do you agree?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yes, I get a little nervous each time I press.
You know share I love hearingyou say that Because I know they
are, you know, raw and bold andyou know truth bombs.
But that's you know why I postthem.
They are truths that we need tohear and need to face and need
(02:47):
to understand and look in themirror and face these, you know
ugly truths, because these, thethis is the only way to you know
change and form.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah, talk about that a lot over here.
Number one I know our listenershave this desire to break the
cycle, but then in the cyclebreaking it often feels lonely,
hard, like endless challenges,right.
But also we talk about thatidea that a person can only grow
in direct proportion to howhonest they can be about like
(03:20):
facing themselves and the thingsthey really don't want to see
or understand about their ownselves.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Yeah, and that's what you do.
You show us our yeah, yeah, Imean.
I.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I hope it doesn't seem like it's coming from a
higher place.
It's coming from an experiencedplace of you know being at rock
bottom and you know having abreakdown, mental breakdown and
literally shattering, and thenstarting fresh and having that
experience of you know a beforeand after with my, with my child
(03:54):
because of that.
So I share it, to inspire, tohelp and to really um show that
you know they're not stuck,because so many of us, like I,
felt stuck.
I felt okay, wow, this isextremely challenging and this
is how it's going to be.
And then that's not the truthat all.
(04:15):
Once I had my moment, had myepiphany, you know, did the work
and all the stuff that's inFoundations, the journal, it's
such a it lifts weight off ofyou and you see that parenting
isn't so hard.
It isn't, it shouldn't be thathard.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
We make it hard for ourselves, I know, but I think
that and this is a differenttangent we don't need to go down
, but I think we've been soldthat lie on so many levels that
we're supposed to staymoderately sick and everything's
supposed to be.
Parenting is hard and health ishard and menopause is
everything's hard yeah.
We're not supposed to be thisout of balance or out of
(04:57):
alignment, and we're certainlynot meant to be chronically out
of alignment the way we seem tohave just been told like, oh,
that's, you're just, that's justhow it is.
Yeah, no, exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
So I have some beautiful questions for you.
So you can, you know, teach usall the things we're missing.
I love that you said it's notcoming from a higher place and I
love that you shared the rockbottom that you came from.
You know, I'm sure there'speople who are committed to
seeing you as someone who thinksthey're better than but I don't
(05:30):
read your content that way atall.
I think you share a lotvulnerably about the things
you've transformed and to meyour content reads as very
integrated, someone who'sspeaking from experience and
that and science right, and Ithink those two things combined
are so powerful.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Good.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
From that experience and that wisdom that also
science adds to it.
We talk a lot about emotionalsafety these days and I sort of
don't love that concept ofemotional safety because I think
a lot of times we too often aretrying to outsource our
emotional safety to ourenvironment right, and we have
to own that.
So I'd be so curious to hearwhat your take is.
But what do most peoplemisunderstand about creating
(06:12):
emotional safety in parenting,especially to do with divorce?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Okay.
Well, I think the idea or whatwe hear when we hear emotional
safety is calm, collected,peaceful, and that's not it at
all really especially afterdivorce or during divorce, there
is conflict, there is not a lotof calm, and maintaining
(06:37):
emotional safety during I mean,during the hard times, but
always is not about keeping thepeace.
It's about being so presentthat you allow all of those
feelings, you allow all of thosebig, big emotions, and that
your children know they can havethem, and you're not going
(06:59):
anywhere and you're not shaking,and your, your, your acceptance
and understanding I mean,that's part of it, though is
that we need that understandingto have to not self abandon.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Right To not self abandon.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Exactly.
I'm seeing a lot.
I don't know if you, I'm goingthrough a divorce right now and
my going through a divorce rightnow and my, my son, who's seven
, is having a lot of behavioralchanges and emotions and and
conflict which we would expectright.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
If he wasn't, we would say something's off.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, yes, and it's been, though, extremely
challenging, just because of thenew defiance, the new hitting
the new, all the stuff that'scoming, which is that is so not
normal in our home, and reacting, responding in a way that I
(07:57):
truly have to just go so bare tothe bone and see what is
actually happening, so that mynervous system, so my triggers,
so my ego, so my hormones, don'treact, you know.
And and he needs my emotionalsafety more than anything in
(08:18):
this whole world right now, inthose hard moments, and can I
show up, can I give it to him,can I hold him when he's
literally hitting me, or do I?
You know, I know we're humanand it's.
I've had moments where I'veyelled and I've, you know, I
just broke, because I'm gettingit from many different
(08:40):
directions right now and it'salmost impossible to, day after
day, be able to hold your childthe way they need to be held.
But let me tell you, it isextremely hard, but emotional
safety is my anchor, that iswhat I keep telling myself my
(09:01):
child needs and that's what iskeeping me anchored in that
moment.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
And so it's about holding space, it's about you
having capacity for hisemotional expression, yeah.
And then it sounds like there'sa lot of discernment involved
in knowing how to respond inthat moment, based on what's
unfolding, right.
Yeah, so how would you, forinstance because I'm sure
(09:30):
there's a redirect aroundhitting right, but knowing when
and how to implement that takesthat presence you talked about
being really, really present.
And then also, where are yougoing to dump your rage and your
anxiety and your panic and yourwhatever?
Because that's what he's doing,right, he's expressing
appropriate rage and distressand whatever.
(09:51):
But then, yes, to your point,it's like, okay, you have
cultivated this amazing nervoussystem capacity to tolerate his
big emotions without your egogetting all in the way.
But that is an energeticexchange that then you have to
discharge yourself.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yes, yeah, I've been leaning on my friends more than
ever.
I'm usually not the type tocall up a girlfriend and be like
I need you, but I am.
These days I'm like I need you.
I just need to vent.
I need to.
I need support.
I'm doing the best to keep myself-care routine like long
walks, baths.
My sleep is very important.
(10:29):
I'm meditating more than Inormally do, so I'm taking care
of myself.
Adaptogens, teas, all day youknow doing all the things.
A little story a couple of weeksago my friend had us over for a
barbecue and my son was havinga hard day and refused to get
(10:50):
out of the car and was very, youknow, kind of people watching
expecting me to, you know, bereally rigid, yeah, but
(11:12):
expecting me to be more stern,and they were seeing his
defiance as disrespect where Iwas seeing it as hurt, and
really that's underneath alltantrums is hurt, especially
around the D word.
(11:32):
So it was just so interestingfor I just felt so like this is
what the traditional Projectionsand judgments that the things
they project onto yeah.
And then my way, which iscompletely different.
It really is different, I mean,to the traditional way, and I'm
(11:55):
trying to bring people more onmy end because if I had done
what they would have suggestedor they thought I should do, it
would have broken my son in amillion more pieces than he
already was, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Right Then we have suppressed and repressed nervous
system distress in the body.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yes, yeah, and so I it's.
It takes a really bold parentto first educate themselves on
what's really going on, becausewithout that understanding, it's
all you know, it's notauthentic and it won't.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
It won't you won't have it to find.
Yeah, there's not capacityright, Information alone is not
capacity in the nervous system.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, yeah.
So we have to truly, truly seethe behavior for what it is,
which is an expression of hurtand it's not.
You know, you can't take itpersonally, you can't, you can't
get offended.
You might, but it's, I do, youknow.
(13:00):
But where is that going to getyou and then you will react with
anger and frustration and youwill just widen the gap.
So it's, it's trust.
It takes so much hard work toget there and and healing and
understanding your wounds andyour triggers and your pattern
patterns and your conditionbeliefs, and that's why, um, it
(13:24):
has to be done if you reallywant to show up, break the cycle
.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, yeah, do you ever do any somatics with your
son?
Like we're big fans over hereof like pillow throwing, like
you know, like discharging stuff, like physically?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, do you do that stuff with him?
The only thing I've done withhim.
We do breath work together,yeah, yeah, and I've taught him
to take long, deep breaths, holdit a little long, exhale.
I've told him he can punchpillows, but he hasn't gotten
there yet.
Yeah, he prefers me.
No, but it's.
It's the breath work does makea big difference and I'm so glad
(14:03):
that you know, I've seen, I seehim do it, doing it on his own
sometimes, which is great, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I love the idea of pillow punching or throwing
together Right, because then youget to discharge from your
nervous system while he does.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
I don't know what your take is on this, but my
daughter's 10.
And you know we've certainlybeen on this journey for years
and years, but sharing with her,in an age appropriate level, my
challenges to intercepting withher challenges like teaching
her.
I think I got down this, I gotto this place with her where I
thought well, if I just teachher all the tools, then she'll
(14:39):
be resourced, and if I hold allthe space, she'll be resourced.
Right, If I have all thecapacity, she'll, and then
she'll reach for the things whenshe needs them.
But I think what I saw is thathuman nature still gets in there
, right, we still want todefault to.
I want somebody to fix it forme.
And so the older she gets, themore I've had to say to her okay
(15:00):
, this is the moment where youhave to choose to use the tool
and I think there's a bigdifference between seven and 10,
but seven is really when thistop brain just starts to come
online.
From a brain developmentstandpoint, yeah.
Yeah, but also holding heraccountable for using the tools
when she would really ratherjust melt down and have me, you
know, do it for her.
(15:22):
So yeah, I've seen that Cause Ithink I told my own self that
had I been given the tools as achild, you know my life would be
different.
You know both things, maybelike I needed the tools, but
also like anywhere we can.
You know Brene Brown talksabout blame is another way we
discharge pain Right that we aspeople we love.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Oh yeah, a lot of that going on in this house
right now.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
In your house, in the world, yeah, yeah, that's the
thing.
All right, what is something achild might never say out loud?
You've already alluded to thisright, but they might never say
it or speak it out loud aftertheir parents divorce.
But they'll show us in athousand other ways, and you've
already said hurt, but tell usmore about that right.
Like what will they not say outloud, but their behavior will
(16:10):
show it?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Yes, so definitely number one is the hurt that it
is hurt.
It will come off as a lot ofparents will see it as
disrespect and rudeness andmaliciousness and spoiled
entitlement.
And it's not that at all, youknow.
So that's number one.
I also think in the divorcearena maybe they would be afraid
(16:38):
to say that they think it'stheir fault.
That would never come out oftheir mouth, probably, but they
would definitely feel what's theword Responsibility.
Yes, responsible, like I shouldhave done something different.
Yeah, or it's because of methis is happening because of me,
or he's mad because of me, andmaybe if I had done that, so
(17:02):
that and then just you know,maybe that they're not sure who
to trust or like when there's aloyalty issue.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Right, that's so big yeah.
Who to trust?
Because I think each parentassumes that they are the one
that knows better, right, andthey're sending the same message
to their kids Like no, I'm theone you should trust.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah.
Oh bless so hard.
And and one thing I've learnedI'm because I'm learning this as
I go with the divorce.
I'm not an expert in divorce atall, that's not where my
expertise lays, but I'm learningthat it's still.
It's still who we are and whatwe model and what we embody that
(17:50):
translates most powerfully thanour words ever could.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
That's right, how it feels, and I think one of the
things that I will say to youit's the long game right now,
right Is how it feels one yearfrom now, three years from now,
10 years from now.
And that consistency over timeright.
You have to trust that in thetight space it's so hard.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
It's so hard yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
But we ideally want our kids to be able to trust
both parents on some level right, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I mean they have to.
That's their need, that's acore need.
They cannot, they're not meantto choose or lose love for one
or the other or be confused ormistrust.
That's creating them todisconnect from themselves.
So it's a serious issue that wehave to navigate in this
(18:50):
process to make sure at allcosts that that inner conflict
is not happening.
But it does happen in so manyhomes so that one's a hard one
because sometimes there's nocontrol over the other.
(19:10):
More often than not, there is nocontrol yeah yeah, and then
when we try to control, it iswhen we really get stuck
ourselves yeah because then wedon't feel safe yes, so a lot of
this is, is is being you know,hyper aware, but letting go at
the same time, if that you knowwhat I mean, but letting go at
the same time, if that you knowwhat I mean.
But aren't.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Aren't most of lives like in life?
Most of the aligned paths areparadoxical.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, yeah, because we can be so attuned and so
concerned and so worried and doall the right things, but then
it can backfire if we also don'tsurrender and have faith also
in you know faith in what I'mproviding is enough.
(19:56):
My you know.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Well, yeah, and I I've never read any of your
content about this, so like, ooh, we're getting into a sassy
little place here, but I believethat the kid chooses their
parents, right, spirituallyspeaking.
That like we all come into thislife choosing our parents and
choosing our timeline andchoosing whatever right and we
can't eclipse each person's ownspiritual life journey.
(20:19):
Yeah, like we don't get to beperfect enough, mothers, that we
eclipse their need to havetheir own hero's journey.
We don't we don't get to bethat arrogant, you know.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
And.
I read this research study once, where they do you remember the
movie biodome with Pauly Shore?
That's like no, no, I neverthought.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
But anyways, um, apologies if you loved that
movie with Pauly Shore, uh, butthey, they recreated a concept
like that where they built abiodome and they tried to
recreate nature within thebiodome so that they could see,
like, can we sustain all thesespecies, all these you know
natural earth cycles inside thebiodome.
And so they were able to like,have all these species really
(21:00):
thrive, thrive in ways thatoften they do not in our natural
environment, where we takeadvantage of the environment and
all the things.
But you know what happened isthe trees ended up falling over.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Really.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Because they didn't develop the root structures that
come from the wind.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Oh, wow, wow.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Isn't that something?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Wow yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
So we need the wind, our kiddos need the wind, right,
our kiddos need the wind, andthat doesn't mean that we want
to subject them to more thanthey ideally.
But sometimes we have to trust.
Like in life, there's wind andwe cannot stop the wind.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yes, not good for them.
Oh, wow, I love that.
Yeah, it's true, and there's alot of guilt guilt, I know, for
many mothers who decide to to dowhat's best for them in terms
of their marriage and perhapsgiving it up, and I, I'm, I'm
(21:59):
very protective, as we all are,and I think taking this step is
kind of the biggest way that wecan show our children that we
also matter and our happinessmatters, and we have boundaries.
(22:24):
We have boundaries andultimately, because I know so
many of us carry guilt, for youknow what we think we're
inflicting on the child, whichthere is, we can't deny that
they are going to be inflicted,right, but that their greatest
(22:44):
interest and what we ultimatelywant to give them is much more.
And you know there is a lightat the end of the tunnel, so
it's just always yes, yes, andso I just keep that also to.
You know, there's, there'ssomething bigger, better, and
there's a reason for the windright now.
Basically, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
And we don't have to do it perfectly right, we just
have to be accountable.
And I think that's what you'retelling us when you talk about
presence yeah, being presentWithin presence.
We can be accountable.
When we set our egos aside, wecan be accountable.
Right, we are present, we canbe vulnerable and maintain
connection and we canco-regulate and do all these
beautiful things.
Right, it's, we can't block thewind, but we can be present and
(23:31):
stay connected.
And that is where safety truly,I think, comes from.
Right Is that sense of safe isconnection, connection.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah, it's such a hard place for a parent to get
to.
Naturally, I think that wake upcall, that you know that rock
bottom Sometimes I think that itonly can really hit someone
through severe grief or or likea big, huge transition or
(24:03):
something hitting them so hardthat you can't deny it or bypass
it or avoid it or excuse for it.
Yes, that your ego literallyshatters and then you see the
truth, Then you can awaken, Thenyou see.
But it's very hard to just tellsomebody that's asleep to wake
(24:23):
up.
You know what I mean.
So it's really really hard.
But if, when a parent doesstart questioning everything
their existence, their childhood, their everything that's the
greatest, greatest.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Freedom from the matrix?
Yes, yeah, I mean, that wascertainly my journey, right?
Is my ego shattered and therewas no denying it, and it was
massive grief and I had toreevaluate everything.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it's the biggest blessingin disguise.
Yes, right, yes yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Okay, what is a seemingly small parenting moment
that actually creates massivelong-term healing for kids in
any transition right, butespecially divorce?
Speaker 2 (25:12):
I think repair is probably number one and then
also getting those feelings out,just making sure.
You know, I have a ritual withmy son before we sleep every
night I say so tell me howyou're feeling, how is your
heart doing, do you, do you feelangry, do you feel upset?
Like tell me, tell me, tell, Ijust need that release because I
(25:33):
I don't want him to hold ontoit and I want him to feel safe
with everything, but also justrepair, because there's.
So when there is conflict andchaos and confusion, repair can
completely change the story thatour children hold right and it
could end the story as well.
(25:55):
Yes, right, and we don't.
I mean, I remember all mystories that are still playing
in my head from when I was sixor seven.
But if I had, if there wasrepair in my head from when I
was six or seven, but if I had,if there was repair, they might
not.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
I might not be thinking about them in my
forties Right, so I love thatyour answer was repair.
I think that's a magical.
So often I tell clients greatcircle back.
So often that's how I deal withwhen you know, I freaked out,
you know, as I circle back and Isay, you know, I've been
thinking, you know, and this iswhat I could have done better.
I'm sorry for that, or whatever.
It is Right, but you know,what's interesting is I actually
got into a fight with myhusband a couple of weeks ago,
because I don't know if yourelate to this I bet you do but
(26:38):
I have always been willing toset boundaries for her that
maybe I wasn't willing to setfor myself or I was willing to
make cycles for her before forme.
Right, I'll just swallow it,I'll handle it, I'll boost
myself.
Right, but I will advocate forher more fiercely.
Right, so there's a problem inthere also, that's a different
episode.
That's a different episode.
(26:58):
And so my daughter and myhusband got into a fight the
other day and it was sort ofthat typical thing that they
fight about, right, or that heand I fight about.
And I think we've come farenough in our healing journey to
know that we are all oftencircling the same issues, right,
but ideally from a higherperspective.
Higher perspective, right.
Our capacity is increasing.
We're chipping away at it alittle bit at a time.
(27:18):
So I like held it togetheruntil he and I were alone, as so
as to not to fight in front ofher, right, and I was like I am
so upset about X, y or Z, and hewas like, okay, and so he's
gotten really good at repair.
He's like, okay, I'm going tohandle this, I'm going to handle
that, I'm going to go talk toher, I'm going to go whatever.
And I'm like, but wait a minute, I actually don't want you to
(27:39):
repair this time.
And he was like what?
And I said, because how manytimes in the last year have you
gone back to do repair on thatthing?
But you haven't actuallyhandled the ego thing that's
coming up for you in that moment.
And then do you run the risk ofgoing and doing repair and her
(28:01):
no longer receiving repair.
You're not actually doing thebehind the scenes.
Yes, to increase your nervoussystem capacity.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah, yeah, right.
So it's like repair is such abeautiful answer, but also you
better be doing the work behindthe scenes.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yes, actually I don't .
I'm using repair, I think morebecause there's a lot of chaos
going on, you know, during adivorce and I think it's a great
answer.
Yeah, but, but I want, but Ihave to say that with my clients
and in in my practice and in myevery day, though I always tell
(28:37):
parents I'm like, but we don'twant to just know how to, you
know, turn off the fire, like weneed to stop igniting the fires
in the first place, like wewant to.
We don't just want to know howto be amazing at repair, you
want to prevent those situationsfrom happening, right as well.
(28:59):
So there doesn't need to be somuch repair at the same time,
right.
So that's again selfness.
What keeps repeating thepatterns that the patterns are
are telltale sign of what'sreally going on and what we have
to.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
And I think that if you had been a fly on the wall,
like, you would have said like,absolutely, his moment of
ignition is very much tied tohis childhood and what he didn't
get Right, and then that's whatshe's able to ignite in him,
and then, from a place ofscarcity, you're like why didn't
I get this thing, or why didn'tI feel important, or whatever
right?
That's always where we getignited in parenthood is when we
(29:35):
something we didn't get inchildhood.
Is that what I'm saying?
Yes, always, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, so interesting so interesting, I know.
Okay, what is one piece ofparenting advice you've actually
completely changed your mindabout over the years, so
something you used to believeabout parenting.
You've changed your mind aboutit over the years, and why.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Well, my first two years, my son's first two years,
I was a different parent.
I was, like you know, thetypical behaviorist you know,
and it was all compliance.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
And that his behavior was a reflection of my
parenting and that obediencemeant I was a good parent and
how much control over I had.
Him meant my parenting.
And I mean that's completelyout the window now.
Now that I know what's reallygoing on, absolutely Now, I see
behavior, as you know, a symptomof something much deeper.
(30:35):
It's a sign, it's, it's usuallya cry for help.
There's that saying if we knewnine times out of 10, if we knew
the problem, the issue behind atantrum, it wouldn't make us
angry, it would make us cry, andthat's you know.
So true, and I don't want tocome off as like no, yes,
there's still boundaries,there's still have limits, you
(30:55):
can still have rules in yourhome, and I'm not saying you
know, be permissive parent.
But I am saying that childrendeserve our understanding and
they deserve?
yes, and they deserve.
We need to reassess ourexpectations of them and we and
start having more clearunderstanding of where they are
(31:18):
developmentally and what theyare capable of capable of,
because they are fightingbecause they cannot meet our
expectations, right?
So that's, that's one exerciseI always have parents do is like
let's look at your expectations.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
And are they even?
Speaker 2 (31:38):
is the brain realistic yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, is the brain development even capable?
Does this?
Speaker 2 (31:44):
make sense and, and I said you know I there's,
there's things that, yes, yournon-negotiables around health
and safety.
Those are mine.
And toxic things I'm, you know,I have my non-negotiables, but
we have, you know, it's not,it's not a bad thing quote
unquote to be more flexible.
(32:04):
I think we need to be moreflexible.
I think we are too rigid withthat whole idea of what you know
our children, how they shouldbe, and that's just creating a
disconnect that won't.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Well, I think both ends of the spectrum are true.
I think, conversely, there arealso parents who have been so
dysregulated or don't know howto set boundaries or don't have
capacity in the other direction,and I've seen this trend, you
know, where it's like I'veraised my kids to be feral, kind
of thing, where it's like theopposite end of the spectrum,
(32:41):
where there's no wind aroundboundaries, right.
And for any type of capacityfor self-regulation.
So I do think both ends of thespectrum are out there.
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
And because, at the end of the day, children crave
boundaries.
They need them to feel safe,for safety.
Yeah, and Dr Vanessa LaPointealways says think of them like
walking crossing over a littlerickety bridge with no handrails
, like the boundaries are thehandrails and they expect them
awesome right, and they expectthem of us.
(33:13):
But I just think, of course,yes, they need them and but we
need to uphold them, not thechild.
That's up to us, we not.
That's not their responsibilityto turn off the TV at this
certain time.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
We make sure it's done.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Or we don't bring ice cream in the house if we're
going to fight about it everyday.
But at the same time, I've seenmore of the other side of too
heavy handed, too perfectionistoriented, yeah, and just just
lacking the emotional side of it, like of the why just, it's
(33:56):
just too much, what not enough?
Why Right, like they did this,but no question, why?
Why?
Why do you think they would dothat?
Why do you think they would sayI hate you?
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Well, but you know curiosity, you bring up an
amazing point, because curiosityis one of the key indicators
that we're grounded in a senseof capital, a self yes, when we
can be curious, it means thatwe're integrated, we're not
dissociated, we're present,we're grounded, we're give or
take right.
Well, and yeah, a lack ofcuriosity absolutely is a real
(34:29):
yeah.
Or as a parent, right, I am notgrounded.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Yes, and, and it's.
It's more of a robotic thingwhere, as we must be curious,
that's, that's really the answer.
Why?
Why is it so difficult for them?
Or why am I getting soactivated by this?
Speaker 1 (34:54):
I want to ask you the biggest, hairiest question that
was not in our interview preppack, and then, if you hate the
question, we can edit this out.
Where do you land on vaccinesand how they affect children's
overall nervous system capacity,behavior, emotional regulation,
all the things?
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Well, I'm not, I have to say, I'm not that educated
too much, but I did get into itafter COVID, of course, and
started getting, and I, I'm just, I'm pretty holistic, I have to
say, in terms we are superholistic over here, okay.
(35:33):
Okay, like we I didn't getvaccinated for COVID and we
don't do the flu vaccines and myson but my son was, you know
did everything except when Istarted.
When I woke up and realizedthen I stopped, actually like we
were supposed to get the secondone, I said no, it's okay.
(35:53):
And you know, I, I now I'm justmore, I'm not, I'm not.
I was kind of a sheep beforeand just did everything.
And you know, and now I'm theopposite.
I'm like, no, I'm not, you know, I'm the only one that didn't
do it and I'm, and I'm, thankGod I did it Right.
But but you know, in terms ofbehavior I could, I mean it's,
(36:19):
it's, it's mind and body are soconnected, so connected, you
cannot associate them.
Yeah, how can we, how can wesay and I've heard too many
scary stories that they don'tmake me feel comfortable at all,
and I just think it's notmisinformation, I think it's
(36:39):
information, information andcuriosity is key.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, thank you for rollingwith that question.
I think I've woken up, you know, in air quotes, multiple times.
In my life, and certainly postCOVID, I had, like you know,
another wake up right and whichis really when I started
practicing constitutionalhomeopathy, which is energy
(37:04):
medicine to recover, right, andI, as I was practicing with my
daughter, she had all these foodallergies, ocd, anxiety,
insomnia, all this stuff Right,as we started unwinding all of
that, how much of it wasactually tied?
Not all of it, not by anystretch stretch all of it, but
certainly some of what ended uplooking like behavior vaccine
(37:25):
related, so interesting yeah.
Oh wow, Vaccine-related Really.
So it's super interesting yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Wow, yeah, I'm not surprised, but yeah, it's tough.
I mean it's hard, but I also.
It's so hard, I mean, when Irefused the last one.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
It's so hard to go against.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
But then you worry, I'm like what if I'm putting my
child's life in danger by ohgirl?
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Constitutional homeopathy has all the answers.
Like can prophylax any of thediseases that are out there,
like there is homeoprophylaxisfor any and all of them.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
But yes, I think it is scary.
We need to talk about that then.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Okay, yeah, but any time you're going against what
popular culture is saying itdoes, it feels scary Like why am
I doing this differently?
I'm outside of what the tribe,yeah, and then we feel this mass
rejection which are nervousLike that's yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yeah, yeah.
But then just one thought ofactually doing it, then I'm like
no, absolutely not, you knowwhat I mean.
And I go back to like no, thisthis makes more sense, and I
feel our bodies are designed.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Okay, tell us a little bit about your journals,
right, and your favorite one,and where they came from and how
they came to be, and just giveus the rundown there.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Well, thank you.
Well, you know, bound bound wasmy first and it a parent-child
connection journal for ages 6 to12.
And so it has a question everyday for your child, something
that opens them up, that, youknow, kind of boosts emotional
intelligence and trust betweenthe parent and child and
(39:03):
self-worth, and you know a lotof different topics and just
open-ended questions.
And then each week has parentreflections for the parent which
are pretty profound into theparents, you know, growing and
becoming more aware of theenergy that they are bringing
(39:23):
into the room with their childin the relationship.
And then foundations is my mostrecent, and this is an eight
week deep healing for parentsLike this is.
It's not it's for the faint ofheart, no, because you know I go
there, we go there and I gothere hard and fast, but we
(39:44):
answer all the questions and Iwe have to, as Dr Dan Siegel
says, we have to connect thedots, we have to make sense of
our childhoods and it's not adwelling in your, in your
childhood, it's, it's a, it's ahealing guide for your parenting
, just how you parent, but ittouches, of course, on your
(40:06):
childhood so that you can makesense of it.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
And just not at all for blame.
This is not at all aboutblaming anyone.
It's about connecting the dotsand breaking the cycle, right,
yes, and we know how to do it.
I think that's so much of how Iknow.
I fell into patterns in myfirst marriage, picking my first
partner in my first marriage.
Fell into patterns in my firstmarriage, picking my first
partner in my first marriage,all the things.
(40:29):
Because I didn't know anydifferent.
I did what I thought was, quote, unquote, normal, yes, yes, I
thought I was making choicesthat were healthier because I
hadn't connected the dots in myown body, I was still
traumatized, I was stilldissociated.
Right, I hadn't done that deepdiving and so, yeah, it's not
about.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yeah, the deep dive is literally your saving grace.
Unless you do this, that innerwork and the connecting of the
dots and looking at the truthwithout the blame, because
actually it just brings you morecompassion for your parents and
their story and theirgrandparents and their story.
It's not about blame, but it'sthe most transformational tool,
(41:11):
like when I help parents withtheir kids' behavior.
We go to the inner work becausethat's what creates the most
change.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
It's not about tricks , it's not about techniques,
it's not about no, because ifthey're not integrated or
embodied right, Like you said atthe very top of the episode,
like it's not going to translate, it's not going to come across
as connection, it's going tocome across as chronic and
controlling.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Yes, and that's why I'm against quote unquote gentle
parenting, because I think it'sreally an act Unless you've
done the inner work.
It's a performance.
Sorry to go there at the end,but like it's true.
It's like you're just trying touse a softer voice when you're
raging inside and your child.
That's just dissociation, yes,and and you cannot be gentle
(41:53):
when you're full of unhealedwounds.
It doesn't, it's not possible.
You know.
It's unsustainable and the thenumber one line I've heard from
hundreds of parents I've workedwith is we tried gentle
parenting and it didn't workbecause it wasn't authentic,
there wasn't connection, yeah,which means there's a breach,
there's a rupture, an attachment.
There wasn't connection in theparent to themselves.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yes, and then how can there be sustained connection
between the parent and the child?
Yes, you can have maybe alittle more connection, but not
sustainably.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Yeah, yeah.
So the number one mostimportant job of any parent is
to heal.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Yeah, yeah, yes, I know it's like I would do
anything for my child.
Well, would you?
So I love the reason.
I think I just got so excitedabout Bound, even your first
work, and not the second one.
I think it's because whenparents, especially women, are
going through divorce andthey're in the thick of it,
right, it's like I don't haveenough capacity to, I'm not
(42:52):
fully recovered from all thesethings.
Right, I haven't completed mydeep dive, I'm not grounded, and
so bound is such a like.
Here's the curious question foryou it's already been for you
it's like.
I don't have the level ofgrounding that I'd like to have
a year or two or five years fromnow.
Right and so bound is just sortof on a platter, like here it
is.
Here's how to talk to yourchild.
Here's how to ask the questions.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
Here's the conversations to have.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Yeah Now, yeah, you don't know what to say, I think,
as a marriage and familytherapist with a divorce podcast
, right, because so many peoplecoming to marriage counseling,
they waited too long, theydidn't do the work, they didn't
do the things you know, and soso many people mess up that
(43:39):
moment of telling their kids howthey're you know that they're
getting a divorce or whatever.
Like I mess up, right, but it'sjust not well executed.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yeah, and so it is what it is.
Bygones.
Let's move on Right, and Ithink it does such a beautiful
job of creating that sort ofstructure.
Here's the roadmap for theseconversations during this season
of life, so I just thought itwas particularly suited for
women in this stage or thisThank you, yes, I could.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
It's helpful, right?
It's very kind of like takesthe weight off and just gives
you what you need to do.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
It's not already automatic, you know yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Yeah, a lot of our talk with our children is small
talk.
How was your day?
That's small talk.
They hate that question, yeah,and they never end Okay, good,
you know.
So I wanted to give questionsthat actually mean something and
open them up and make them wantto answer, and make them feel
closer and make them feeltrusted and make them feel
(44:33):
empowered and important.
You know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
What else would you add that maybe I didn't think to
bring up or that you know issuper relevant for these major
life transitions, maybeespecially divorce, and if
there's nothing, if major lifetransitions, maybe especially
divorce, and if there's nothing,if we covered it like great, I
think we've done like we'vecovered some cool stuff today.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Just that our own managing our own emotions is the
focus.
As much as things can getchaotic within our children,
it's and we can in our children,it's and we can put it on them
or just focus and dissect onwhat they're doing and how
they're behaving, we don't haveto deal with our own.
Yeah, and it's like you need tobe dissecting yourself.
(45:18):
That's who you should bedissecting, and you should just
be focusing on your behavior themost and become, you know,
become a witness to yourself.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Yeah, right, because regulating our emotions doesn't
mean suppressing or bypassing orjust containing emotion.
Right, it's about witnessingand then getting curious.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
What is this that I'm feeling?
Why am I feeling it?
What am I going to do withthese feelings, right?
Am I going to push them down oram I going to find some healthy
way to get them out?
Speaker 2 (45:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
And then make that such a habit, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
And I think and learning to sit with them as
well.
You know, yeah, like, do youhave to call someone right away
and talk to them about it, orcan you just sit and sit in in
it?
You don't feel it, and can you?
And then that will open youreyes to.
(46:13):
Can you let your child do thesame?
You know, when I see my son sad, who he has been sad lately,
can I get comfortable with mydiscomfort of?
his discomfort, you know and andand allow it.
And you know, that's the bigthing too, is is just allowing
those feelings.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
It's just I think I learned that truly for the first
time ever when I was goingthrough divorce, because I would
phone a friend, right, if I wastriggered or whatever, I would
phone a friend, some person onmy support system.
And then those moments wherenobody answered, it was like
well, shit, now what?
And then, yeah, you got to finda way to deal with that and I
(46:53):
really do think that that wasintegral to my transformation
while I was getting divorcedearly on.
I think so many people, whenthey see their kids, have
painful emotion like A.
It taps into our unprocessed,painful emotion.
So we want to stop it like rest, yes, right away.
But then there are so many of usthat want to break the cycle
that we've sort of erroneouslyfallen into this, like I have to
(47:14):
solve that for them so thatthey don't feel pain rather than
like no, actually I have toteach them how to deal with the
wind, right?
Speaker 2 (47:20):
And.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
I think we have traded resilience for like
pacification, right.
Like I want to take themsomewhere, I want to distract
them, I want to entertain them,I want to buy them something,
because if they're happy, I'mhappy, and that is the
definition of codependency.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
Yeah and yeah.
And you know tears are healing,so healthy they detox the liver
.
Know tears are healing, sohealthy they detox the liver.
And we've been told toliterally say stop crying and
stop their healing.
You know they are releasing thecortisol and the stress and and
(47:59):
and let them.
Let them, let them feel sad.
You know it's causing, you knowit's causing disease if we
don't let it out.
Right, that's right.
It's healthy first for them tofeel it.
It's a part of life.
But also we feel so much guiltand responsibility, as parents
and mothers especially.
(48:20):
But we like that's thesurrendering part where we have
to say you know, yes, they choseus, this is a part of their
story, this is I can't taketheir pain away, that's not my
job.
It's just, it's me, it's my jobto support them through it and
stay here and hold them throughit, but not take it away, you
(48:42):
know, and that's the best giftyou can give them actually.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Right.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
Love it Dream.
I am literally a fangirl.
I just admire your courage.
You say the hard things, you dothe hard things right, like
being at the party or thecookout or whatever, and doing
it differently, I know, you know, let's say like when we started
doing homeopathy and nobodyelse around was doing it, and
it's like what is happeningstarted doing homeopathy and
(49:07):
nobody else around was doing it,and it's like what is happening
, you know, like to do it verydifferently than what your
community is doing takes anabundance of courage and I'm
proud of you and I'm gratefulfor you.
There are plenty of times.
I repost your stories becausethey're things that people need
to hear, and we'll definitelyput your Instagram handle in the
show notes along with your twojournals.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Thank you so much.
We can have you back one day.
Yes, of course I would love to.
You're so sweet.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
All right, you can check out Reem in the show notes
and if there's something youwould especially like to hear
her talk about, send me a DM andwe will have her back and we
will ask her.
Whatever it is, you're in thetrenches, parenting through
divorce.
Curiosities are Dear.
(49:57):
Divorce Diary is a podcast bymy coach, john.
You can find more atmycoachjohncom.
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