July 22, 2025 • 28 mins
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Have you ever heard your child use your ex’s hurtful words—and felt a wave of dread because it sounds just like them all over again?
As a divorced parent, nothing stings quite like realizing your child is picking up the same language, tones, or behaviors that once caused you pain. If you’re triggered when your kid starts echoing your ex—or even acting out patterns you’re desperate to leave behind—you’re not alone, and you don’t have to stay stuck in shame, guilt, or confusion.
In this episode, you’ll discover why this emotional gut-punch is so common for co-parents and single moms, how your own triggers say more about your unhealed wounds than your child’s choices, and what to do in the moment to avoid projecting old pain onto your kid—while still holding healthy boundaries and compassion. You’ll also learn how to reframe these moments as powerful invitations to break the cycle, model emotional honesty, and create a more secure, attuned bond with your child.
Listen now for real talk, practical healing tools, and some much-needed permission to feel it all—because navigating this pain can become one of the bravest, most transforming steps on your divorce recovery journey.
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A podcast exploring the journey of life after divorce, delving into topics like divorce grief, loneliness, anxiety, manifesting, the impact of different attachment styles and codependency, setting healthy boundaries, energy healing with homeopathy, managing the nervous system during divorce depression, understanding the stages of divorce grief, and using the Law of Attraction and EMDR therapy in the process of building your confidence, forgiveness and letting go.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The tone in her voice and the way she said you're too
emotional was like hearing himall over again.
My daughter is nine.
What am I supposed to do withthis?
Punish her, break her heart?
The way she sounds like him isso painful.
(00:24):
Hi love, welcome to Dear DivorceDiary, the podcast helping
divorcees go beyond talk therapyto process your grief, find the
healing you crave and buildback your confidence.
I'm your host, dawn Wiggins, atherapist, coach, integrative
healer and divorcee.
Join me for a fresh approach tohealing grief and building your
(00:44):
confidence after divorce Loves.
Today is a very exciting daybecause this is day one of our
new format, where you have notjust me, but you have producer
joy and coach Tiffany.
(01:05):
And the reason we're doing thisis because we're on season four
.
We've done so many epic episodesteaching you how to heal, but
what we're learning as a team isthat too many of you too often
don't believe you are eligiblefor healing.
You've got secrets, you've gotpain, you've got stuff you're
not saying out loud, or you aresaying out loud but you can't
(01:26):
shake it and it keepsresurfacing or coming back.
So we decided screw it, we'regoing deeper.
So our Tuesday episodes aregoing to be deep dives on mega
pain points, things that you arestruggling to say out loud or
admit or talk with your friendsabout.
Thursdays are going to beconfessionals.
Ooh, they're going to be spicyand hot and good, good, good,
good, good, but they are behinda paywall and part of that is
(01:48):
because they're so spicy.
But Thursday we really want youto feel witnessed and held on
Thursday episodes and like youcan work through things that are
the hardest things to say outloud to people.
With that, coach Tiffany,producer, joy, welcome, hello,
hello.
With that, coach Tiffany,producer Joy, welcome, hello,
hello.
Hey guys.
So, ladies, how does it feelthis morning?
(02:11):
What are you feeling?
What's in your bodies?
What is happening for you rightnow?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I'm really excited, Like I'm on fire right now.
It may be the coffee, but Ithink it's just because I'm with
Sophia.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
How about you Joy?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I'm really excited.
I'm excited to be able to divedeeper and go to another layer
of these women's journeys.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah.
So when I texted you, what wasthis like 10, 12, 14 days ago
now?
And I texted you in the middleof the night and said I want to
blow up the podcast on Monday,what was your initial reaction,
Joy?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Well, it wasn't clear what you were going for.
So, uh, my first reaction waslike of course she does.
Like yeah, that's kind of onbrand of like wanting, um,
wanting to dive deeper or to gobigger or to go better and
sharpen and be better.
So my first reaction was likeyep, yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
So then we sort of moved through um last week like
shaping it, like shaping theconcept Right, and anytime the
three of us get intoconversations where we're all
like locked in, they're just sogood.
So I cannot wait to see whatunfolds over the next couple of
seasons.
So today's topic is mydaughter's starting to talk like
(03:37):
her dad, and this is not justisolated to daughters, this is
also sons.
Obviously, right and off thecuff, I'm going to tell you I
think this is one of the biggeststruggles I've had actually
with my mother.
I think I remind her of myfather.
So, just as a child of divorce,that's my opening salvo and I
think it has crippled ourrelationship over the years.
(03:57):
And I don't think she's awareof that.
Maybe she is, I don't know.
We've never talked about it.
What comes up for both of youwhen you hear this?
Speaker 3 (04:08):
So last night I was actually in the kitchen hanging
out with my daughter.
We were having a conversationactually about her dad around
her dad, right, and it was justlike an informal chat, like my
daughter's 20, right?
So, whatever, we're past thewhole parenting phase.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
We're on to kind of like the friend phase, if you
will.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
But I kept noticing you know she's the same age now
that her father was when Imarried him, and so she was
having this conversation with meand then all of a sudden she
would make these facialexpressions or words would pop
out of her mouth.
And I had experienced that whenshe was little, growing up like
(04:45):
seeing little nuances, and evenlike my family, my mom would be
like, oh my God, she's likelittle him, you know, like that
was her thing.
But seeing her as the same ageas him and seeing her reactions,
it was just it kind of took meback a little bit.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
It was just odd, because I was like, wow, that
has to be so complex of beingtriggered, but also the
unmeasurable love that you havefor your child.
But also it has to be hard.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
I think this is a really familiar struggle for
many of us.
So my brain's just sort ofworking on this right now and I
write to the woman who submittedthis to us.
I think the amount of complexemotions that go into this
moment, right, the amount of I'dbe super curious to hear Coach
(05:43):
Tiffany's perspective from anIFS perspective right.
The various parts that would beactivated here, right, because
this is the definition of innerconflict, right, yeah, but I
think very often our brains are,they see they.
Our brains seek efficiency,right.
They.
They look for patterns,patterns, they get in grooves
(06:05):
and they see things and theylook to confirm.
The brain looks to confirm itsown biases, right.
And I think that when you gettriggered like this, it's so
easy to lose track of who yourkid is versus who your kid isn't
right, and I think, intransparency.
I think that happens forproducer joy and I in our
(06:26):
relationship, because we'rewe're cousins and we have the
same parents, you know what Imean?
Like my dad is her uncle and hermom is my aunt, and so we have
mannerisms like each other'sparents, and so those triggers
get popped in, right, and it'slike so easy to forget who this
person in front of me is whenI'm projecting that person who
(06:48):
triggers me so much onto them,right, and so I think this is
such a familiar struggle formore people than they even
realize.
But when anyone I don't carewho you are, but when,
especially a mom is so used toexperiencing I think quite often
right a lot of our identity andour joy and our happiness
through our children, it's likeif my kids are happy, then I can
(07:10):
be happy, which is not true,that's not real.
But we've really gotten sort oflulled into that idea, right,
that my kids are happy, I'mhappy.
That's not actually my ownpersonal joy, that's a whole
other podcast episode.
But and then when your kid isno longer a source of joy for
you in that moment but a sourceof pain, like that's like a
freaking triple whammy, like agut punch.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Yeah, like there's definitely a guilty part that
comes up because you know, froman IFS perspective, those
feelings of guilt and shamearound.
I'm looking at my child withdisgust, disgust.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
You know, whatever that feeling is coming up for
you.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I think, too, one of the biggest parts is when you're
hearing your child say thingsto you that your ex has said to
you at some point, having theurge so badly to correct them,
as if you would have correctedyour ex.
If you didn't have a voice backthen, Making sure that you're
not projecting and trying toclose or get closure through
your child rather than throughyour ex, if that makes sense.
(08:08):
You know like, hey, she's goingto drop this truth bomb on me
and I'm going to push back andhold her accountable because I
never had a voice in my marriage.
I never spoke up.
I just made myself small.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Right, like it's easier to to say the thing to
your kid than it is your ex.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Yeah, but I'm going to put her in check to make sure
that she doesn't repeatpatterns that he had.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
You know what I mean, so I don't have to feel pain,
or I can feel right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
I deal with a lot of clients that have this issue,
that tell me that they see their, their children, you know, have
all of these qualities of theirex and it's something they're
afraid to talk about.
It's not fun to talk about, youknow, and I think that a lot of
them struggle with this guiltof feeling some sense of
(08:56):
repulsion against the thing thatis supposed to bring you the
most joy in the entire world.
And so how do you rectify thatin your mind?
How do you look at your childmaking that facial expression?
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Okay, but can we just normalize feeling disgust
towards your child period?
Like I felt that in the last 48hours and it had nothing to do
with my kid acting like her dad,so I actually think it had to
do with my kid doing somethingthat I'm afraid I do.
So it's really interesting,right, this we're we're talking
(09:28):
about it through the lens ofshe's acting like my ex, but
also maybe we experienced thismore often, like this just sort
of split, like complex emotionsabout being moms in general.
Right, and maybe this is anopportunity for us to be more
aware of the ways we project ouridentity onto our kids, or
(09:50):
expect them to fulfill ouridentities or our roles, or to
satisfy our emotional wellbeingor our nervous system regulation
.
Right, like, maybe this is Ihate to call it a gift, but like
the thing that points with aneon arrow like hey, mama, you
got to integrate some of thisshit because it's affecting your
attachment, right, a secureattachment between mama and
(10:14):
kiddo.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
I had someone tell me the other day that you know,
their biggest manager from anIFS perspective is inner critic,
like always pessimistic intheir mind, like ruminating
thoughts, and so she getsseverely triggered when she
hears her daughter do the samething.
So it's almost like we can betriggered by the things that we
see in ourselves that we don'twant our daughters or kids
(10:37):
really repeating our cyclesRight.
So that can be extremelytriggering, because it's like no
, no, no, I have to save her,please don't go there.
And then it's like how do Iprevent my kid from making the
same mistakes that I did?
Yeah, I think I would ask theaudience like what do you
normally yell at your kids for?
What do you get the mostpassionate and heated for?
Because I feel like that is thestuff that gives you the most
(11:02):
fear around repeating yourcycles.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Oh, what would be your answer, Joy?
What are you most often?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
I was like, oh, that hurts, what am I?
Most I get very dysregulatedwhen my children are unkind,
because I traditionally have avery deep identity as being a
mom and I've said since theywere born, I don't care what,
how they do their hair or whatthey wear, as long as they're
(11:31):
kind.
And so when they're not kind,I'm just like what have?
Speaker 1 (11:34):
I done.
Oh, it's like you're failingyeah.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yes, like what have I done, you know?
And so it's only been the last,what five years that I've
really kind of scaled back Likeeverybody has a part.
That's not kind and lettingthat have that's coming from
place, of them wanting to beseen or them needing to be,
whatever you know like um right.
(11:57):
I have.
I have one that's tries to befunny and so she makes jokes
that might not necessarily betaken as funny.
That's kind of a hard one.
For me is like letting myselfhave grace to understand that
they aren't going to behave orsay the right thing 100% of the
(12:20):
time, their uniqueness, theirpeople-ness.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
And did that happen in our marriages too, where I
know this was certainly one ofmy strategies from an IFS
perspective, right, a controllermanager that I really wanted to
be perfect and wantedeverything to look perfect in my
marriage.
And so by trying to control theperson, control the way it
looks right and I definitelyhave evolved with that with my
(12:48):
daughter over the years butreally trying to control how it
looks so that I don't getrejected or abandoned or so
people don't question whether ornot my marriage is okay, right.
So I definitely resonate withwhat you're saying, joy, about
like we end up squashing theirunique little spirits, right,
when we expect them to be aparticular note to satisfy our
insecurities.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yeah, yeah, I relate with that a lot.
What about the idea and this isa question for both of you what
about the idea Because in theexample that our listener wrote
in right, her daughter accusedher of being too emotional?
What about the idea that thething that hurts the most is the
thing that we probably need toconsider, is potentially true?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I actually think this , this reminded me um shortly
after we started this podcastand we were in the kitchen and
we were in the thick of it andyou called me dramatic or
something along those lines.
Like maybe, maybe, when one ofthe kids because we have four
between us, it's like one of thekids called me dramatic and I
(13:49):
got all huffy and she was likeyou are dramatic, right, it's
like it's the thing I love aboutyou.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
It's like your life's purpose, right, is to be this
bright, to be loud, yeah, butlike.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
It's the permission of like.
Yes, I am, I take up space youknow like I own a more.
Yeah, did you see that?
Speaker 1 (14:11):
yeah, yeah, yeah, but like to the woman who wrote it
in yes, exactly like women aresupposed to be emotional, you're
supposed to take take you'resupposed to right.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
God created us to be emotional and say, fuck, yeah, I
am emotional, like that is, I'mcreated to be so, and like I'm
allowed to take up space andlike I'm allowed to be heard,
I'm allowed to be seen, that'smy whole purpose on this planet
is to be me and to be and, likeyou know, like we're always
(14:42):
trying to.
You know, like I think that thegoal is to always try to be the
healthiest version of you andmake sure you're taking up space
and the correct motivation,like, if you're, but yes, I am
fucking dramatic and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yes, I think my coaching to people is often
don't weaponize your emotions ordon't offload them onto people.
Yeah, I think if there was onenote I could give people on this
podcast.
It's like yes, be emotional,feel your emotions.
Because not feeling ourfeelings and not expressing them
is killing us, it's making usdiseased, it's perpetuating
(15:20):
trauma.
It's like the reason you can'tunhook your patterns is because
you're not feeling your feelings, you're not emotional enough.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, that gave me chills.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Tiffany, what are your thoughts about right?
Like okay, so your ex said somepainful shit to you and maybe
your daughter is echoing it.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Right, but like I remember I was standing in my
bedroom, I remember it, and shewas like I don't know, maybe 13
or 14.
And she had just said to melike just because I haven't
experienced the level of whatyou have, doesn't mean that I'm
still not impacted.
So it was almost like comparingtrauma versus trauma.
(16:00):
And why is this a big deal?
For you?
Because in my world it wouldn'thave been a big deal, but for
her it was.
Because, again, I raised her,you know, in a different way.
So it's like being able tounderstand that just because
people aren't on my levelsometimes doesn't mean that they
don't experience pain and theydon't experience hurt and fear
and all of that.
(16:21):
And it kind of allowed me totake a step back and think like
it's not a competition.
You know it's not, but it hurthearing that because that's what
I had been told so many timesover and over is.
You know, just because I'm noton your level doesn't mean it
doesn't hurt me, it doesn't meanthat it doesn't.
You know all of that, all ofthat shit.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
So there was a part, like some part that you had
activated there, that a maybefelt like your pain hadn't been
validated enough yet.
But then also the mom who wantsto be successful and good,
right, it's like oh, did I getsomething wrong?
Man, complex emotions.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Yeah, and not really feeling like I was hearing her.
So that's hard, but I think,again, coming back to the
trigger, when they say somethingor they make a facial
expression and your mind justkind of going back to that,
there's got to be a way that youmake peace with that Because
again, you cannot heal thatthrough your child.
(17:25):
They do not understand that.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Okay, but let's talk about that, because a way to
make peace with that Tiffanymeans finding a way to feel love
and acceptance towards your ex.
If you could see my face rightnow that's the thing right.
And PS, my life's purpose isunity, consciousness.
(17:50):
So here we are.
But but that's the thing right.
It's like, are you open orwilling to make peace and find
warm feelings towards your ex?
That's sort of the only path tonot have to suppress or
disassociate around your ownchild.
Yeah, I agree, but like, allright, let me think about what
that journey has been like forme.
(18:11):
Like, all right, let me thinkabout what that journey has been
like for me.
You know, because up to recently, my ex's ex-wife, his second
ex-wife he's working on histhird right now but his second
ex-wife reached out to me and wehave been in touch on Instagram
lately.
And the week we first startedtalking, it was heavy and
intense and I was a little offand my husband noticed, and
(18:34):
which is fine, right, I wasfeeling feelings and that's
appropriate.
But I would tell people that Iam able to feel warm feelings
towards my ex, but also, ohnotice, there was still pain in
there, right, and so can youfeel pain without resentment?
Can the pain just be the griefor the sadness or the rejection,
(18:54):
but not, like, turn it intoblame or resentment?
What do you think?
What are your thoughts aboutthat?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
It was a journey for me, for sure.
I feel like I did a lot ofprotecting Him.
It was almost yeah, him, her.
It was almost him and her right.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, like his reputation, or him and her eyes,
they were still my posseabsolutely right and I always
felt this.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
I no longer feel that way and that's a very new
feeling for me, but for 20 yearsit was almost one of those
things where you know I couldsay what I wanted to say, but
don't you dare talk about him.
You know what I mean, becauseit was like there were things
that were just private, therewere things that were never
aired.
That you know.
So for me it had to go from aperiod of trying to always see
(19:43):
the intention behind it andrealizing that his journey as a
husband and father to me was notwhat it looked like, but I
could still be appreciative ofthe fact that you know this
person did give me a child.
You know we did have good times.
It wasn't all terrible.
So it was almost like lookingback at the good things.
I think a bigger part of it,about letting go of the
(20:06):
resentment of your ex isforgiving yourself for who you
were when you were in thatmarriage, because a lot of women
can't do that.
Your ex is forgiving yourselffor who you were when you were
in that marriage.
Because a lot of women can't dothat, Tiffany that gave me
chills, yeah.
And they're looking back andthey're thinking why did I make
this decision?
Why was he my choice?
Why did I not see this or feelthis or regardless?
(20:28):
And I've done that in our childwork to where I know exactly
who the Tiffany was that chosehim.
I know why I chose him.
I know why he chose me.
We were both very broken peoplewhen we met.
I had known him for a while butagain, we were both battling
things and that was okay.
But then it's like we reachedthis point where we kind of look
(20:51):
and we're like what are wedoing?
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Before you're even able to forgive yourself for
choosing this person, it's likefirst you've got to be willing
to own your role in it.
Oh, that's hard.
That's hard, and I think it'sespecially hard when, when in
popular culture it's likecurrently rewarded to call your
(21:17):
ex a narcissist or to man, or beable to distance yourself from
your own I don't know behaviorpatterns right by pointing that
his are louder or I don't know Iliterally think that's rewarded
in popular culture right now,to be able to pin it on him and
not me.
(21:38):
And listen, while I canrecognize, based on my
conversations with my ex'ssecond wife, that my ex hasn't
owned his stuff, right, hehasn't made significant change
because he's still repeating thesame patterns.
I was absolutely a vibrationalmatch for that hot mess when we
met and got married.
Like I was complicit, I was avolunteer and I think this, this
(22:00):
is tricky, right when?
Because what about the highconflict divorce?
What about the narcissistthat's still narcissistic, that,
the actual narcissist, becausethey do exist, right.
What about the, the activeaddict?
What about the?
You know the instances of abuse, like physical domestic
violence and right, like this,the situations that really are
(22:21):
very, very ugly.
And then your child looks andsounds like your ex, like that's
a lot of wounds to heal, that'sa lot of wounds to heal.
Before you, that inner conflictgoes quiet.
But what's the alternative?
Because when we talk aboutattachment styles, we talk about
not repeating mistakes, likethat's the mission, right, and
(22:42):
it has to be.
You know, small segue, right, Ihave the best team ever.
We are in the middle ofbuilding and preparing to launch
a homeopathic organization.
You know, the other dayproducer Joy had ordered a
bottle filler and this has beena big thing, like how to fill
(23:05):
bottles in mass like massquantity to scale Right.
And so producer Joy had orderedone and that one didn't work and
we've been filling themmanually and there was a day
that she got the new one in andit worked.
And if you could have heard herscream down the block and it
was so joyful and, um, and I waslike this, this feeling right
here.
This is the way you get.
(23:26):
You eat an elephant one bite ata time and celebrate every
single bite that feelssuccessful Right.
And I think that's the point islike when you are tackling
something big with a big reward,you have to like really be in
touch with the rewards along theway.
Every time you have an IFSsession and you have an aha
moment and something integrates,every time you are able to
(23:46):
reclaim some piece of yourselfand feel some piece of joy,
every time you're able to catcha good night's sleep or have a
positive interaction or like youhave to get so good at
celebrating the small winsbecause otherwise the mountain
looks too big yeah, absolutelyyeah, and I think that's when I
know too that my clients aregetting close to that epiphany
is when they can take a stepback and take responsibility and
(24:09):
accountability for their partin the relationship and start
really understanding who theywere and why they were that
vibrational match for thatperson.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Mm-hmm.
And, as a mom, doing this workonly leads to better
conversations with your kid,like when the child said that
the mom was too emotional.
You're right, I am emotional,I'm designed to be emotional.
And being able to have thatconversation with your kid and
(24:38):
have them kind of own their partand see you owning your part,
that is how you transform.
And pairing that with you knowIFS and semantics and homeopathy
, like all those things, thatonly creates deeper and better
relationships with your kid.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Right, because how cool would it be to be able to
say, yes, I am.
And why is that uncomfortablefor you?
How does that affect you?
What goes on for you when I'memotional.
Yeah, what happens for you whenI'm emotional?
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah, right now it's about our relationship and it's
not about what I did or what youdid.
Right now it becomes back tothe relationship.
How do we vibe off of eachother?
What works, what doesn't work,what needs to be held, what
needs to be acknowledged, whatneeds to be released?
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah, Wow be released .
Yeah, wow, thank you.
Thank you to the woman whowrote that in, because I think,
it's probably more common thanmoms even realize and you gave
us an opportunity to seek youand speak truth and love into
(25:52):
you and to all the mamas thatare facing that reality.
You know it's really hard tonavigate.
So I'm proud of you forrecognizing it.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
I love that.
I love that and for being sobrave.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Okay, I wish that every premium subscriber could
know.
I wish that every listenercould know how excited we get as
a team, and I mean like everylevel, like the individual who
edits the podcast, theindividual who creates the
social media posts, like, as ateam, we get so excited when we
have a new premium subscriber,because we know what that means
(26:31):
for the healing journey.
We know what it means we'regrowing closer as a community.
We know so many things and thenI always love to go look at
like what their little emojithat they picked and who their
name is, and very often we'llput their names up on the board
and all the things.
Yeah, it's like we get excitedover here.
Today's premium listener shoutout is Emily with the fire emoji
(26:52):
.
Emily, tell me what you loveabout the fire emoji and where
you are in your divorce journey.
Send me a DM at Dawn Wiggins.
Thank you so much for being asubscriber.
I use the fire emoji almost asmuch as I use the yellow twinkle
emoji and it's one of myfavorites and I love that it is
(27:12):
one of your favorites.
But I want to hear from you, sosend us a DM and we can
continue the conversation.
Loves, we would love to knowhow you feel about this new
format.
Obviously, it is just born, sobe patient with us as we find
our stride, but we are excitedto see where it goes.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
I'm excited to be here and I'm excited to connect
with these women.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Dear Divorce Diary is a podcast by my coach Dawn.
You can find more atmycoachdawncom.
The tone in her voice and the way she said you're too
emotional was like hearing himall over again.
My daughter is nine.
What am I supposed to do withthis?
Punish her, break her heart?
The way she sounds like him isso painful.
(00:24):
Hi love, welcome to Dear DivorceDiary, the podcast helping
divorcees go beyond talk therapyto process your grief, find the
healing you crave and buildback your confidence.
I'm your host, dawn Wiggins, atherapist, coach, integrative
healer and divorcee.
Join me for a fresh approach tohealing grief and building your
(00:44):
confidence after divorce Loves.
Today is a very exciting daybecause this is day one of our
new format, where you have notjust me, but you have producer
joy and coach Tiffany.
(01:05):
And the reason we're doing thisis because we're on season four
.
We've done so many epic episodesteaching you how to heal, but
what we're learning as a team isthat too many of you too often
don't believe you are eligiblefor healing.
You've got secrets, you've gotpain, you've got stuff you're
not saying out loud, or you aresaying out loud but you can't
(01:26):
shake it and it keepsresurfacing or coming back.
So we decided screw it, we'regoing deeper.
So our Tuesday episodes aregoing to be deep dives on mega
pain points, things that you arestruggling to say out loud or
admit or talk with your friendsabout.
Thursdays are going to beconfessionals.
Ooh, they're going to be spicyand hot and good, good, good,
good, good, but they are behinda paywall and part of that is
(01:48):
because they're so spicy.
But Thursday we really want youto feel witnessed and held on
Thursday episodes and like youcan work through things that are
the hardest things to say outloud to people.
With that, coach Tiffany,producer, joy, welcome, hello,
hello.
With that, coach Tiffany,producer Joy, welcome, hello,
hello.
Hey guys.
So, ladies, how does it feelthis morning?
(02:11):
What are you feeling?
What's in your bodies?
What is happening for you rightnow?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I'm really excited, Like I'm on fire right now.
It may be the coffee, but Ithink it's just because I'm with
Sophia.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
How about you Joy?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I'm really excited.
I'm excited to be able to divedeeper and go to another layer
of these women's journeys.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah.
So when I texted you, what wasthis like 10, 12, 14 days ago
now?
And I texted you in the middleof the night and said I want to
blow up the podcast on Monday,what was your initial reaction,
Joy?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Well, it wasn't clear what you were going for.
So, uh, my first reaction waslike of course she does.
Like yeah, that's kind of onbrand of like wanting, um,
wanting to dive deeper or to gobigger or to go better and
sharpen and be better.
So my first reaction was likeyep, yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
So then we sort of moved through um last week like
shaping it, like shaping theconcept Right, and anytime the
three of us get intoconversations where we're all
like locked in, they're just sogood.
So I cannot wait to see whatunfolds over the next couple of
seasons.
So today's topic is mydaughter's starting to talk like
(03:37):
her dad, and this is not justisolated to daughters, this is
also sons.
Obviously, right and off thecuff, I'm going to tell you I
think this is one of the biggeststruggles I've had actually
with my mother.
I think I remind her of myfather.
So, just as a child of divorce,that's my opening salvo and I
think it has crippled ourrelationship over the years.
(03:57):
And I don't think she's awareof that.
Maybe she is, I don't know.
We've never talked about it.
What comes up for both of youwhen you hear this?
Speaker 3 (04:08):
So last night I was actually in the kitchen hanging
out with my daughter.
We were having a conversationactually about her dad around
her dad, right, and it was justlike an informal chat, like my
daughter's 20, right?
So, whatever, we're past thewhole parenting phase.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
We're on to kind of like the friend phase, if you
will.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
But I kept noticing you know she's the same age now
that her father was when Imarried him, and so she was
having this conversation with meand then all of a sudden she
would make these facialexpressions or words would pop
out of her mouth.
And I had experienced that whenshe was little, growing up like
(04:45):
seeing little nuances, and evenlike my family, my mom would be
like, oh my God, she's likelittle him, you know, like that
was her thing.
But seeing her as the same ageas him and seeing her reactions,
it was just it kind of took meback a little bit.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
It was just odd, because I was like, wow, that
has to be so complex of beingtriggered, but also the
unmeasurable love that you havefor your child.
But also it has to be hard.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
I think this is a really familiar struggle for
many of us.
So my brain's just sort ofworking on this right now and I
write to the woman who submittedthis to us.
I think the amount of complexemotions that go into this
moment, right, the amount of I'dbe super curious to hear Coach
(05:43):
Tiffany's perspective from anIFS perspective right.
The various parts that would beactivated here, right, because
this is the definition of innerconflict, right, yeah, but I
think very often our brains are,they see they.
Our brains seek efficiency,right.
They.
They look for patterns,patterns, they get in grooves
(06:05):
and they see things and theylook to confirm.
The brain looks to confirm itsown biases, right.
And I think that when you gettriggered like this, it's so
easy to lose track of who yourkid is versus who your kid isn't
right, and I think, intransparency.
I think that happens forproducer joy and I in our
(06:26):
relationship, because we'rewe're cousins and we have the
same parents, you know what Imean?
Like my dad is her uncle and hermom is my aunt, and so we have
mannerisms like each other'sparents, and so those triggers
get popped in, right, and it'slike so easy to forget who this
person in front of me is whenI'm projecting that person who
(06:48):
triggers me so much onto them,right, and so I think this is
such a familiar struggle formore people than they even
realize.
But when anyone I don't carewho you are, but when,
especially a mom is so used toexperiencing I think quite often
right a lot of our identity andour joy and our happiness
through our children, it's likeif my kids are happy, then I can
(07:10):
be happy, which is not true,that's not real.
But we've really gotten sort oflulled into that idea, right,
that my kids are happy, I'mhappy.
That's not actually my ownpersonal joy, that's a whole
other podcast episode.
But and then when your kid isno longer a source of joy for
you in that moment but a sourceof pain, like that's like a
freaking triple whammy, like agut punch.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Yeah, like there's definitely a guilty part that
comes up because you know, froman IFS perspective, those
feelings of guilt and shamearound.
I'm looking at my child withdisgust, disgust.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
You know, whatever that feeling is coming up for
you.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I think, too, one of the biggest parts is when you're
hearing your child say thingsto you that your ex has said to
you at some point, having theurge so badly to correct them,
as if you would have correctedyour ex.
If you didn't have a voice backthen, Making sure that you're
not projecting and trying toclose or get closure through
your child rather than throughyour ex, if that makes sense.
(08:08):
You know like, hey, she's goingto drop this truth bomb on me
and I'm going to push back andhold her accountable because I
never had a voice in my marriage.
I never spoke up.
I just made myself small.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Right, like it's easier to to say the thing to
your kid than it is your ex.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Yeah, but I'm going to put her in check to make sure
that she doesn't repeatpatterns that he had.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
You know what I mean, so I don't have to feel pain,
or I can feel right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
I deal with a lot of clients that have this issue,
that tell me that they see their, their children, you know, have
all of these qualities of theirex and it's something they're
afraid to talk about.
It's not fun to talk about, youknow, and I think that a lot of
them struggle with this guiltof feeling some sense of
(08:56):
repulsion against the thing thatis supposed to bring you the
most joy in the entire world.
And so how do you rectify thatin your mind?
How do you look at your childmaking that facial expression?
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Okay, but can we just normalize feeling disgust
towards your child period?
Like I felt that in the last 48hours and it had nothing to do
with my kid acting like her dad,so I actually think it had to
do with my kid doing somethingthat I'm afraid I do.
So it's really interesting,right, this we're we're talking
(09:28):
about it through the lens ofshe's acting like my ex, but
also maybe we experienced thismore often, like this just sort
of split, like complex emotionsabout being moms in general.
Right, and maybe this is anopportunity for us to be more
aware of the ways we project ouridentity onto our kids, or
(09:50):
expect them to fulfill ouridentities or our roles, or to
satisfy our emotional wellbeingor our nervous system regulation
.
Right, like, maybe this is Ihate to call it a gift, but like
the thing that points with aneon arrow like hey, mama, you
got to integrate some of thisshit because it's affecting your
attachment, right, a secureattachment between mama and
(10:14):
kiddo.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
I had someone tell me the other day that you know,
their biggest manager from anIFS perspective is inner critic,
like always pessimistic intheir mind, like ruminating
thoughts, and so she getsseverely triggered when she
hears her daughter do the samething.
So it's almost like we can betriggered by the things that we
see in ourselves that we don'twant our daughters or kids
(10:37):
really repeating our cyclesRight.
So that can be extremelytriggering, because it's like no
, no, no, I have to save her,please don't go there.
And then it's like how do Iprevent my kid from making the
same mistakes that I did?
Yeah, I think I would ask theaudience like what do you
normally yell at your kids for?
What do you get the mostpassionate and heated for?
Because I feel like that is thestuff that gives you the most
(11:02):
fear around repeating yourcycles.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Oh, what would be your answer, Joy?
What are you most often?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
I was like, oh, that hurts, what am I?
Most I get very dysregulatedwhen my children are unkind,
because I traditionally have avery deep identity as being a
mom and I've said since theywere born, I don't care what,
how they do their hair or whatthey wear, as long as they're
(11:31):
kind.
And so when they're not kind,I'm just like what have?
Speaker 1 (11:34):
I done.
Oh, it's like you're failingyeah.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yes, like what have I done, you know?
And so it's only been the last,what five years that I've
really kind of scaled back Likeeverybody has a part.
That's not kind and lettingthat have that's coming from
place, of them wanting to beseen or them needing to be,
whatever you know like um right.
(11:57):
I have.
I have one that's tries to befunny and so she makes jokes
that might not necessarily betaken as funny.
That's kind of a hard one.
For me is like letting myselfhave grace to understand that
they aren't going to behave orsay the right thing 100% of the
(12:20):
time, their uniqueness, theirpeople-ness.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
And did that happen in our marriages too, where I
know this was certainly one ofmy strategies from an IFS
perspective, right, a controllermanager that I really wanted to
be perfect and wantedeverything to look perfect in my
marriage.
And so by trying to control theperson, control the way it
looks right and I definitelyhave evolved with that with my
(12:48):
daughter over the years butreally trying to control how it
looks so that I don't getrejected or abandoned or so
people don't question whether ornot my marriage is okay, right.
So I definitely resonate withwhat you're saying, joy, about
like we end up squashing theirunique little spirits, right,
when we expect them to be aparticular note to satisfy our
insecurities.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yeah, yeah, I relate with that a lot.
What about the idea and this isa question for both of you what
about the idea Because in theexample that our listener wrote
in right, her daughter accusedher of being too emotional?
What about the idea that thething that hurts the most is the
thing that we probably need toconsider, is potentially true?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I actually think this , this reminded me um shortly
after we started this podcastand we were in the kitchen and
we were in the thick of it andyou called me dramatic or
something along those lines.
Like maybe, maybe, when one ofthe kids because we have four
between us, it's like one of thekids called me dramatic and I
(13:49):
got all huffy and she was likeyou are dramatic, right, it's
like it's the thing I love aboutyou.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
It's like your life's purpose, right, is to be this
bright, to be loud, yeah, butlike.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
It's the permission of like.
Yes, I am, I take up space youknow like I own a more.
Yeah, did you see that?
Speaker 1 (14:11):
yeah, yeah, yeah, but like to the woman who wrote it
in yes, exactly like women aresupposed to be emotional, you're
supposed to take take you'resupposed to right.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
God created us to be emotional and say, fuck, yeah, I
am emotional, like that is, I'mcreated to be so, and like I'm
allowed to take up space andlike I'm allowed to be heard,
I'm allowed to be seen, that'smy whole purpose on this planet
is to be me and to be and, likeyou know, like we're always
(14:42):
trying to.
You know, like I think that thegoal is to always try to be the
healthiest version of you andmake sure you're taking up space
and the correct motivation,like, if you're, but yes, I am
fucking dramatic and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yes, I think my coaching to people is often
don't weaponize your emotions ordon't offload them onto people.
Yeah, I think if there was onenote I could give people on this
podcast.
It's like yes, be emotional,feel your emotions.
Because not feeling ourfeelings and not expressing them
is killing us, it's making usdiseased, it's perpetuating
(15:20):
trauma.
It's like the reason you can'tunhook your patterns is because
you're not feeling your feelings, you're not emotional enough.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, that gave me chills.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Tiffany, what are your thoughts about right?
Like okay, so your ex said somepainful shit to you and maybe
your daughter is echoing it.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Right, but like I remember I was standing in my
bedroom, I remember it, and shewas like I don't know, maybe 13
or 14.
And she had just said to melike just because I haven't
experienced the level of whatyou have, doesn't mean that I'm
still not impacted.
So it was almost like comparingtrauma versus trauma.
(16:00):
And why is this a big deal?
For you?
Because in my world it wouldn'thave been a big deal, but for
her it was.
Because, again, I raised her,you know, in a different way.
So it's like being able tounderstand that just because
people aren't on my levelsometimes doesn't mean that they
don't experience pain and theydon't experience hurt and fear
and all of that.
(16:21):
And it kind of allowed me totake a step back and think like
it's not a competition.
You know it's not, but it hurthearing that because that's what
I had been told so many timesover and over is.
You know, just because I'm noton your level doesn't mean it
doesn't hurt me, it doesn't meanthat it doesn't.
You know all of that, all ofthat shit.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
So there was a part, like some part that you had
activated there, that a maybefelt like your pain hadn't been
validated enough yet.
But then also the mom who wantsto be successful and good,
right, it's like oh, did I getsomething wrong?
Man, complex emotions.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Yeah, and not really feeling like I was hearing her.
So that's hard, but I think,again, coming back to the
trigger, when they say somethingor they make a facial
expression and your mind justkind of going back to that,
there's got to be a way that youmake peace with that Because
again, you cannot heal thatthrough your child.
(17:25):
They do not understand that.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Okay, but let's talk about that, because a way to
make peace with that Tiffanymeans finding a way to feel love
and acceptance towards your ex.
If you could see my face rightnow that's the thing right.
And PS, my life's purpose isunity, consciousness.
(17:50):
So here we are.
But but that's the thing right.
It's like, are you open orwilling to make peace and find
warm feelings towards your ex?
That's sort of the only path tonot have to suppress or
disassociate around your ownchild.
Yeah, I agree, but like, allright, let me think about what
that journey has been like forme.
(18:11):
Like, all right, let me thinkabout what that journey has been
like for me.
You know, because up to recently, my ex's ex-wife, his second
ex-wife he's working on histhird right now but his second
ex-wife reached out to me and wehave been in touch on Instagram
lately.
And the week we first startedtalking, it was heavy and
intense and I was a little offand my husband noticed, and
(18:34):
which is fine, right, I wasfeeling feelings and that's
appropriate.
But I would tell people that Iam able to feel warm feelings
towards my ex, but also, ohnotice, there was still pain in
there, right, and so can youfeel pain without resentment?
Can the pain just be the griefor the sadness or the rejection,
(18:54):
but not, like, turn it intoblame or resentment?
What do you think?
What are your thoughts aboutthat?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
It was a journey for me, for sure.
I feel like I did a lot ofprotecting Him.
It was almost yeah, him, her.
It was almost him and her right.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, like his reputation, or him and her eyes,
they were still my posseabsolutely right and I always
felt this.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
I no longer feel that way and that's a very new
feeling for me, but for 20 yearsit was almost one of those
things where you know I couldsay what I wanted to say, but
don't you dare talk about him.
You know what I mean, becauseit was like there were things
that were just private, therewere things that were never
aired.
That you know.
So for me it had to go from aperiod of trying to always see
(19:43):
the intention behind it andrealizing that his journey as a
husband and father to me was notwhat it looked like, but I
could still be appreciative ofthe fact that you know this
person did give me a child.
You know we did have good times.
It wasn't all terrible.
So it was almost like lookingback at the good things.
I think a bigger part of it,about letting go of the
(20:06):
resentment of your ex isforgiving yourself for who you
were when you were in thatmarriage, because a lot of women
can't do that.
Your ex is forgiving yourselffor who you were when you were
in that marriage.
Because a lot of women can't dothat, Tiffany that gave me
chills, yeah.
And they're looking back andthey're thinking why did I make
this decision?
Why was he my choice?
Why did I not see this or feelthis or regardless?
(20:28):
And I've done that in our childwork to where I know exactly
who the Tiffany was that chosehim.
I know why I chose him.
I know why he chose me.
We were both very broken peoplewhen we met.
I had known him for a while butagain, we were both battling
things and that was okay.
But then it's like we reachedthis point where we kind of look
(20:51):
and we're like what are wedoing?
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Before you're even able to forgive yourself for
choosing this person, it's likefirst you've got to be willing
to own your role in it.
Oh, that's hard.
That's hard, and I think it'sespecially hard when, when in
popular culture it's likecurrently rewarded to call your
(21:17):
ex a narcissist or to man, or beable to distance yourself from
your own I don't know behaviorpatterns right by pointing that
his are louder or I don't know Iliterally think that's rewarded
in popular culture right now,to be able to pin it on him and
not me.
(21:38):
And listen, while I canrecognize, based on my
conversations with my ex'ssecond wife, that my ex hasn't
owned his stuff, right, hehasn't made significant change
because he's still repeating thesame patterns.
I was absolutely a vibrationalmatch for that hot mess when we
met and got married.
Like I was complicit, I was avolunteer and I think this, this
(22:00):
is tricky, right when?
Because what about the highconflict divorce?
What about the narcissistthat's still narcissistic, that,
the actual narcissist, becausethey do exist, right.
What about the, the activeaddict?
What about the?
You know the instances of abuse, like physical domestic
violence and right, like this,the situations that really are
(22:21):
very, very ugly.
And then your child looks andsounds like your ex, like that's
a lot of wounds to heal, that'sa lot of wounds to heal.
Before you, that inner conflictgoes quiet.
But what's the alternative?
Because when we talk aboutattachment styles, we talk about
not repeating mistakes, likethat's the mission, right, and
(22:42):
it has to be.
You know, small segue, right, Ihave the best team ever.
We are in the middle ofbuilding and preparing to launch
a homeopathic organization.
You know, the other dayproducer Joy had ordered a
bottle filler and this has beena big thing, like how to fill
(23:05):
bottles in mass like massquantity to scale Right.
And so producer Joy had orderedone and that one didn't work and
we've been filling themmanually and there was a day
that she got the new one in andit worked.
And if you could have heard herscream down the block and it
was so joyful and, um, and I waslike this, this feeling right
here.
This is the way you get.
(23:26):
You eat an elephant one bite ata time and celebrate every
single bite that feelssuccessful Right.
And I think that's the point islike when you are tackling
something big with a big reward,you have to like really be in
touch with the rewards along theway.
Every time you have an IFSsession and you have an aha
moment and something integrates,every time you are able to
(23:46):
reclaim some piece of yourselfand feel some piece of joy,
every time you're able to catcha good night's sleep or have a
positive interaction or like youhave to get so good at
celebrating the small winsbecause otherwise the mountain
looks too big yeah, absolutelyyeah, and I think that's when I
know too that my clients aregetting close to that epiphany
is when they can take a stepback and take responsibility and
(24:09):
accountability for their partin the relationship and start
really understanding who theywere and why they were that
vibrational match for thatperson.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Mm-hmm.
And, as a mom, doing this workonly leads to better
conversations with your kid,like when the child said that
the mom was too emotional.
You're right, I am emotional,I'm designed to be emotional.
And being able to have thatconversation with your kid and
(24:38):
have them kind of own their partand see you owning your part,
that is how you transform.
And pairing that with you knowIFS and semantics and homeopathy
, like all those things, thatonly creates deeper and better
relationships with your kid.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Right, because how cool would it be to be able to
say, yes, I am.
And why is that uncomfortablefor you?
How does that affect you?
What goes on for you when I'memotional.
Yeah, what happens for you whenI'm emotional?
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah, right now it's about our relationship and it's
not about what I did or what youdid.
Right now it becomes back tothe relationship.
How do we vibe off of eachother?
What works, what doesn't work,what needs to be held, what
needs to be acknowledged, whatneeds to be released?
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah, Wow be released .
Yeah, wow, thank you.
Thank you to the woman whowrote that in, because I think,
it's probably more common thanmoms even realize and you gave
us an opportunity to seek youand speak truth and love into
(25:52):
you and to all the mamas thatare facing that reality.
You know it's really hard tonavigate.
So I'm proud of you forrecognizing it.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
I love that.
I love that and for being sobrave.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Okay, I wish that every premium subscriber could
know.
I wish that every listenercould know how excited we get as
a team, and I mean like everylevel, like the individual who
edits the podcast, theindividual who creates the
social media posts, like, as ateam, we get so excited when we
have a new premium subscriber,because we know what that means
(26:31):
for the healing journey.
We know what it means we'regrowing closer as a community.
We know so many things and thenI always love to go look at
like what their little emojithat they picked and who their
name is, and very often we'llput their names up on the board
and all the things.
Yeah, it's like we get excitedover here.
Today's premium listener shoutout is Emily with the fire emoji
(26:52):
.
Emily, tell me what you loveabout the fire emoji and where
you are in your divorce journey.
Send me a DM at Dawn Wiggins.
Thank you so much for being asubscriber.
I use the fire emoji almost asmuch as I use the yellow twinkle
emoji and it's one of myfavorites and I love that it is
(27:12):
one of your favorites.
But I want to hear from you, sosend us a DM and we can
continue the conversation.
Loves, we would love to knowhow you feel about this new
format.
Obviously, it is just born, sobe patient with us as we find
our stride, but we are excitedto see where it goes.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
I'm excited to be here and I'm excited to connect
with these women.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Dear Divorce Diary is a podcast by my coach Dawn.
You can find more atmycoachdawncom.
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