Dress Sexy At My Funeral

Episode Transcript
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Lo Carmen (00:01):
I'm sure that we've all been to those funerals that
just didn't seem to reflect theperson that we knew and loved.

(00:25):
I was 17 when I went to myfirst funeral, which was for one
of the most amazing women thatI've ever met.
Her name was Susie Sidewinder.
She was a New York dancer, wildgirl.
She taught street kids breakdancing and she moved to
Australia after she fell in lovewith our family friend.
And soon after she had a baby,she discovered that she had full

(00:48):
blown AIDS and was terminal andher toddler son Troy had it
too.
And there was no way of knowinghow long he would survive.
1986 was a terrible time tohave AIDS.
There was a lot of fear, panic,shunning and judgment.
You were very much kept awayfrom people.
People were afraid to touchyou, to visit you.

(01:11):
It was a lonely and frighteningtime without a lot of answers.
But throughout it all, Susiemaintained her incredible,
sizzling firecracker spirit.
She joked, laughed, loved,cried, said shocking, hilarious
things, confronted her fatehead-on, fully present, and

(01:33):
racing towards the inevitable.
She died surrounded by herloving family, and I still
remember seeing photographs ofher in the bed, obviously dead,
but dressed up with flowers inher hair.
And that was shocking to me,but also so beautiful and raw,
And the sight of her like thatkind of helped me process my

(01:55):
loss as a young girl who deeplyadored her and had been with her
almost daily in the last fewmonths.
But her funeral didn't feellike it reflected her life at
all.
It was a traditional religiousfuneral at a cemetery.
It was austere.
It was plain.
It was boring.

(02:15):
It was all of the things thatshe was not.
The priest that led the funeraltold us that Susie would want
us to reflect upon our sins andto think about the way that we
lived our lives.
That she might want us torepent and that she would want
us to embrace God.
I don't actually think that anyof those things were true.

(02:37):
And I sat there with steamcoming out of my ears and a
desire to scream at the sky.
I wanted to punch the priest.
I felt robbed of the chance tomourn this vibrant, fabulously
subversive woman appropriately.
Then we went and ate sandwichesand drank tea.
A few years later, when herbeautiful seven-year-old son

(02:59):
Troy died, we were able to givehim a vastly more beautiful and
appropriate send-off, scatteringhis ashes over cliffs, a place
that his mother loved.
And I realized that there wereways to celebrate a life that
were meaningful, that feltright.
We're going to hear from somepeople in this episode that have

(03:20):
all chosen to approach death indifferent and unique ways, ways
that I find really inspiringand exciting.
First up, we have the absoluteforce of nature that is Fanny
Lumsden, an Australian countrygirl, country singer, with an
absolute zest for life and anamazing catalogue of songs that

(03:44):
embrace life and death equally.
I heard a while ago that shehad a telephone at gigs where
audience members could leave amessage for her describing what
they wanted done at theirfuneral amongst other prompts
that she had and then I saw thatshe was releasing a song called
When I Die.
Fanny and I have done a coupleof gigs together in Nashville

(04:08):
and so amongst other things Iasked Fanny to tell me the story
behind her amazing song, When IDie.

Fanny Lumsden (04:15):
I wrote When I Die when I was coming across the
Nullarbor Plains in 2021 afterwe accidentally drove around
Australia without a caravandoor.
That's its own story.
But I was sitting, or comingback across the Nullarbor, I was
38 weeks pregnant and I wassitting there around this
campfire.
There was no one for miles.

(04:36):
We didn't camp in a campgroundor anything.
It was just like we just pulledoff the road and my husband was
putting our little, he musthave been three, I think at that
point, to bed and I was is outthere under this huge blanket of
stars around the campfire andthe song kind of just came out
however it's muse um comes fromwhere i live now which is in the
snowy mountains and um and iwas at my local pub which that's

(04:58):
all there is in the town herelike there's no it's just like a
locality really um called tumorand i was at the pub and um and
a local fellow by the name ofbrett who's kind of um he
reminds me of hagrid um fromhe's like the aussie true blue
version of that um and he pulledme up at the pub and he said,
Oi Fanny, how much to play at mefuneral?

(05:20):
And I was just like, I don'tknow, two loads of wood and a
cow.
I just, you know, it's justwhatever, mucking around.
I went back to my Savvy B andhe like continued on.
Anyway, six months later it wasCOVID and he rocked up to where
I live on the property with thefirst down payment of a load of

(05:40):
wood.
And I was like, Oh, Freddie,what do you want?
What's the plan then for yourfuneral?
What do you really want me todo?
And so he's like, right, so.
I want my ashes to be put intoshotgun shells and then I want
everyone to gather for the likethe wake on the side of the hill
a place called awesome view andit's right above where he lives

(06:02):
and it it is an awesome viewsnowy valleys where we live here
on the western side of thesnowy mountains is incredible
it's quite like picturesqueanyway so he wants us all
together byo shotgun and he'scollected a big old copper where
he's going to put all theshotgun shells in then and then
they've got like they've got aclay shooter um lined up he's
got his nephew already lined upto do it.

(06:23):
And then as the sun sets, we'regoing to shoot his ashes into
the sky as that golden lightgoes across the valley.
And then he wants me to be kindof back up behind everybody
playing a bunch of songs, mostlykind of Monty Python themed.

Lo Carmen (06:39):
Like always look on the bright side of life?

Yeah, actually, but I did get a message from him
recently and he thinks it mightbe a bit cliche that one.
He thinks that, yeah.
A bit overused.
Yeah, a bit overused.
So he's going for like, I'm alumberjack and like because
that's what his job is, and I'mokay.
He's got, like, some John Prinesongs.
He's got some Jason Isbellsongs.
He's actually got a goodselection, to be honest.

Lo Carmen (07:01):
Soundslike pretty great taste he's got.

Yes, he does.
ACDC.
I asked him– oh, anyway, sothen– and then the other thing
he wants is he wants– he's goingto have a bonfire up there on
the body of an old truck.
Now, this– He already has thetruck on the hill and it's
really steep hill.
I think he nearly had an earlyfuneral just getting it up there
on the tractor, like honestly.

(07:25):
And so they've got this oldtruck and it's a Ford.
And I was like, well, like whyspecifically a Ford?
Because he said, well, I'vealways said I'd only ever be
seen dead in a Ford.
So his detail is just unreal.
Anyway, so what he's going todo is then he's going to, his
old horse, his favorite horse,who's like, was like died just

(07:45):
recently and she's in her thirdwhich is very old for a horse.
He's got the bones of her upthere and the bones of his old
dog.
He's got lots of dogs.
So he wants the dogs up thereas well.
And then he's got photos of hisfamily and stuff and he wants
them stuck to the roof.
And then he wants to light thistruck on fire.
So then that's just likesending everything with him.

(08:06):
So he's been shot into the air.
Everyone else has just beencelebrated in this big bonfire.
I'm whacking out some songs outthe back and then we're all
there just like with ourshotguns Anyway, I was, like,
obviously fairly, like,impressed with this story.
And I was thinking about it alot as I was driving around
Australia.
Anyway, so I wrote this songcalled WhenIDie...
Where it go from here, I'm notquite sure But be damned if I'm

(08:38):
stuck scrubbing the kitchenfloor Just to fall on my own
Dixot.

(09:26):
There's been no sadness in this plan.
It had to be a joyful song.
Like, it had to be a joyfulsong.
I didn't really pre-empt it.
It just kind of came out andthen I was like, oh, this is
what this song is.
And then, anyway, I was back.
after I'd written it, and I wasat my parents' farm, which they
live next door to him, and Iwas there with them, and it was

(09:49):
Christmas party, and we alwayshave a Christmas road Christmas
party, so all the otherproperty, like everyone who
lives on the property is around,come around on Christmas, and
we were having this Christmasparty, and he caught up with me,
and I was like, oh, Brett, Iwrote a song for your funeral.
Do you reckon I could play it?
And he was like, nah.

Unknown (10:07):
Yeah.

Nah, he was like, no, he loves the song, but he
was like, nah, this is my list.
That's not on my list.
And I was like, anyway, well,he'll be dead, so he won't know,
so I probably will play.
But he starred in your musicvideo.
Yeah, he did.
So then, but then there was onemore detail he added on that
night.
He was like, I have beenthinking, and I think we should
add glitter.
And so now, as big burly Brett,who's lived in the bush his

(10:33):
whole life, is shot out of ashotgun, as the sun sets, he
will now glitter.
into eternity, most likelybecause it won't be, you know,
biodegradable glitter and lastfor eternity.
So, yeah, it's an absolutetreat.
He is wonderful.
Correct.

Lo Carmen (10:50):
Amazing.
What an imagination.
That is so cool.

Yes.
He has claimed that he wants tostart his own business called
Your Funerals Your Way.
Fuck the rest.
But I maybe said the taglinecould go.
Just keep it your thing.

Lo Carmen (11:06):
Yeah.
I'm with you.
But I think there's a lot ofroom for you.
your funeral your way and youknow there are in fact some
people doing things like thatbut I think that Brett would
bring a very unique and wellneeded take on that and he
should do it

I love just how much I've talked about death
since this, but not in a sadway, in a way that has feel like
it's so healthy for people totalk about how they want to be
celebrated.
Like, I think that, um, that'ssuch a, a very cool thing.
And obviously you too, becauseotherwise you wouldn't have this
podcast.

Lo Carmen (11:39):
Exactly.
Like I, I too have found thatit's been amazing to talk about
death with people and just havea laugh about it, but also
realize how it connects us and,and, Often how unprepared most
of us are, like we all kind ofhave a giggle about our
gravestones or various plans,but very few people are actually

(12:00):
organized.
Are you organized?

I'm not.
No.
Do you have a will?
I don't.
I don't even have a will.
I know.
It's terrible.
I might after this.
This must be the...
Someone actually sent me anamazing book.
I need to find it in the mail.
It's here on my chaos of mydesk somewhere when I released
this song, which is exactlythat.
It's a prompter book thatprompts all those questions.

(12:24):
And I think it's genius.
Like it's a great idea.
And it's really, it's reallylike beautifully graphically
designed.
It's not like somber or like,it's just like, think about this
stuff.
I mean, exactly.
My, My grandma is probably agood one to talk to about this
because she was like theultimate party planner.
And she...
like she planned my grandpa'sfuneral and she planned her own.

(12:47):
And my grandpa's was like thisnever ending, like ceremony of
ceremonies.
Like we, they grew up, theylived on a farm under Mount
Buffalo down in NortheastVictoria.
And he is Scottish, came fromScotland when he was younger and
his whole family is Scottish.

(13:08):
Anyway, so that, and there weredairy farmers.
And so the first part of thefuneral for them, I'm sorry if
I'm off track, I'm already justsaying.

Lo Carmen (13:15):
No, this is perfectly on track.
I love it.

Okay, great.
So the first part of thefuneral was where we had like a
viewing ceremony.
at the farm, which wasconfronting for kids, but like I
think probably good because itreally does help you process
that quite immediately.
Like you can't pretend thatthey're not dead when you see
them dead.
So that was quite amazing andthat was for family and friends.

(13:38):
And then the second bit waswhere they put the coffin then
on the back of his old Toyota,like his own ute, old ute that
he drove around until he waslike in his 80s when he died.
And then they put that on theback and then they put the cows,
because the valley is beautifuland the road goes down the
middle of the valley and so theythe cows then went walking

(13:59):
first like the dairy cows andthen they had the toyota with
his dogs on the back and thenthey had my dad and two of my
cousins on horseback like ridingbehind that and then the rest
of us walked and they said thatthey like he left the valley
that way which was reallybeautiful like

Lo Carmen (14:18):
beautiful absolutely gorgeous

and then we went to the church for the official
bit um and he was bagpiped inobviously because of you know
Scottish and everyone waswearing their kilts and like
family tartan as well and soeveryone's wearing and then we
go in and then like there's allthe speeches and my dad writes
poetry so he did a littlebeautiful poem and my uncle
talked for about four hours andthat was a thing in itself

(14:44):
anyway and then actually theydidn't hold it at the church
because there were too manypeople came so they did it at
the hall and then they went tothe burial where there was more
bagpipes whip cracking oh whipcracking

Lo Carmen (14:57):
oh

my god oh we sang a song as well songs do you
remember what the song was itwas a scottish one yeah it was
like it was something classicscottish that he used to sing a
lot um and then yeah then wewent to the thing and we had
like whip cracking and like alldifferent stuff and then he was
like put to the ground and thenwe all went to the permacodrum
because we were like that was abig day

Lo Carmen (15:21):
I love hearing about people that, you know, plan
their funerals and that they'rethese fabulous events.

Really was quite an event.

Lo Carmen (15:29):
Memorable, really fun for everybody.
I've actually just been writingabout like kind of terrible
funerals, funerals that don't,you know, how sometimes you go
to a funeral and it just doesn'tmatch the person and you leave
going, oh, that was just notright.

That's exactly why Brett says he came up with
the idea for his.
Because he went to a funeral,he said, with a guy that was,
you know, he'd lived in the bushhis whole life.
He also cut wood with him.
He was like this big burlybloke.
And then he said they buriedhim in a suit.
in a church and he was like, Ijust didn't feel like, he was

(16:04):
like, if you go to church on thelast day, it's a bit late,
isn't it?
Which is a part of the line inthe song.
Like there's a verse about thatbecause I just thought that
that concept was beautiful.
Like I was like, he was like,if you didn't do that earlier,
yeah, it's too late.
Like you cooked it.
If you don't want that, it'sfine.
Just go with the other version.

(16:26):
There's no point pretendingnow.
Like literally stick to yourguns.
In his case.
Like, you know, obviouslycelebratory way.
Yeah.
So that was very cool.

Lo Carmen (16:39):
Yes.
Do you know, has he sourced aplace where you can get your
ashes put into shotguns?

He has.
Is it in Australia?
I'm not sure.
I'll have to ask him thosedetails.
Maybe you should interview him.
He'd be probably unreal.

Lo Carmen (16:53):
Maybe I

should, actually.
It'd be wild, I'll tell youthat.
You might not be able to use itall.
Yeah, and just a lot of storiesthat you'd be like, what?

Lo Carmen (17:06):
That's very funny.
I feel like you kind of havelife and death woven through all
of your songs.
Like you have a reallybeautiful, expansive view of
everything that runs through allof your songs.
I think that's quite unique.
I wonder if that's somethingabout...

(17:29):
coming from the country andhaving a really great overview
of how life works.

Yeah, I think I really, I do think about it a
lot.
And I think actually the songsthat I'm writing now for this,
my new record really are kind ofaround that theme as well.
I think it's something that I,well, it's like one universal
truth, right?
We're looking for the thingsthat we have in common.
We have all of that in common.
We can't avoid it.
And I think I'm scared of it aswell.

(17:56):
And so I think I've been tryingto face it through my
songwriting.
I'm not scared of the physicalpart, but I feel like I have so
much to do and I'll never haveenough time.
And so the thought of deathfreaks me out because I'm like,
what about all the stuff I wantto do?
What if I don't get it done?
I feel like I'm just insatiablein that way.

(18:21):
I don't think I'll ever achieveit.
So it's something that I'mtrying to learn to come to terms
with.
And also that I've been verylucky in that I have...
Like, my grandparents all diedof old age.
I've got one left still.
But I had, like, four and agreat-grandma for most of my
childhood.
And my grandparents didn't dieuntil I was in, like, my 20s and

(18:41):
30s.
And I've got both my parents.
And, like, you know, I supposemy husband's– we lost my
husband's mum to cancer and Iwas there.
Like, we were all sitting therewith her as she died in her
home.
And that's probably the closestthat it's come, really.
Yeah.
Very

Lo Carmen (19:00):
similar for me, Fanny.
Tell me about what was it likewhen your mother-in-law died and
you were all there?
What was that experience like?
It was pretty beautiful,

actually.
And she had cancer and shewanted to just be at home for
the whole process.
And so the kids kind of nursedher.
I mean, when you're in thatplace as well, like, you know,
it's my role to be supportive ofall of them.
Like there's always a hierarchyof grief in those scenarios.

(19:33):
I was pregnant though too.
So like it was quite a lot andwe had a baby not long after.
So it was really quite a lot offeelings.
I feel like I learned to feelthat year.
Like I really did.
Like it was an interestingprocess.
I think before that I was justlike observing what feeling was.
In a really deep sense.

(19:54):
And then, yeah, I had, yeah,when I had, like when that
happened, it was, I mean, weactually all made watermelon
margaritas because that was herfavorite thing.
And then we, and then wecheersed her and like we called
her sister and she came over andlike, yeah, so it was actually

(20:15):
really, it was a reallybeautiful, we had a lot of time
to prepare because it was cancerand it was, you know,
inevitable.
So it was a release.
Yeah, it was.
It was.
Yeah, she was really, reallysick and she lasted in her
physical form longer than welike had anticipated.
So like, yeah, it really was.
Yeah.
So that was, yeah, it was aninteresting process.

(20:36):
But other than that, I haven'treally experienced it.
Like I haven't had any suddenlosses and I think I'm scared of
how I'll cope with that.
So maybe talking about it a lotis my writing songs about.
I think I've always, a lot ofthe time before, so I wrote my
album, my album Fallow kind ofcame off like through that

(20:57):
process and then it came out andlike, you know, it was before
that I'd been observationallywriting not necessarily writing
from a deeper place and so Ithink that really changed which
was pretty amazing yeah

Lo Carmen (21:12):
and what do you think happens to us after we're dead
have you got any concepts ofthat

I keep changing my mind you know Like,
obviously, like, energy has tojust change form.
And, like, I'm so split becauseI am, like, very kind of, like,
scientific about things and Ilike things to be very factual.
I did a science degree.
Like, you know, however, at thesame time, I definitely believe
in magic and some kind ofspirituality.

(21:41):
So, like, I know that.
So, like, it's like I'm notsure what form it takes, but I
like to believe that.
I think I like to believe that.
they change energy in someform, but I'm not really
conquering on what that is yet.
If that makes sense.
Yeah.
I'm just like, I very, I like,yeah, like I don't, I don't

(22:03):
believe in heaven and like, Idon't believe in hell.
Um, but like, I think it's, Ithink it's, and like, I heard
someone recently talk aboutreligion as the blank canvas of,
um, like a blank canvas wherewe reflect the fear of the
unknown and trying to make someunderstanding of that.

(22:23):
And I was like, I think that,yeah, like I think that there's
something in that and whateverit is you need to help you
process, then that's perfect.
I'm not anti any religion.
I'm not anti things.
I think that whatever you needas a person to process, then do
that.

Lo Carmen (22:40):
Fanny, that was so beautiful.
I think that's everything.
We've covered it all.
If you thought Brettie'sfuneral service idea sounded
pretty great, you're not alone.
Allow me to introduce you toStas, one of the two female
founders of The Last HurrahFunerals in Melbourne,
Australia, a fiercelyindependent funeral company who

(23:05):
take pride in doing things alittle differently.
They specialise in originalfunerals for unique people with
a focus on sustainability andtransparency around costs.
They offer cardboard coffins,minimal markups on products and
services, honest, relaxed andStas has also teamed up with

(23:27):
comedian Jonathan Schuster forher own podcast, The Last Word,
where they interview funnypeople about their funeral
plans.

The Last Hurrah - Nastas (23:36):
Pretty simply, we just hold funerals
that are exactly what the familyor the dead person would have
wanted.
So we come into, it's Kimber,Griffith and myself, Nastassia
Jones, and we came into thiswith the mindset that not
everyone, and especially peoplelike us, are necessarily
represented within the currentfuneral landscape.
So we thought we'd get a littlebit weird and let people do

(23:58):
whatever the heck they want,which is what we would want in
that situation.
So that's where we're coming atit from, really.

Lo Carmen (24:05):
Did that come out of attending some funerals that you
felt weren't reflective ofpeople that you knew?

The Last Hurrah - Nastass (24:10):
Yeah, especially in my own family.
They just seemed cold andboring and that's not the kind
of people we are at all.
And also I worked in thefuneral industry for a while and
was privy to a lot of trainingand some really amazing old
school ways of doing it, whichhave their own purpose and their
own place.
And we do take bits and piecesfrom that, like turning a coffin
in a certain direction andthings like that that for some

(24:32):
reason you just can't shake.
But I also found it was justdisingenuous Yeah.
And death is weird enough.

Lo Carmen (24:59):
To deal with already without having to suddenly be on
your best behaviour and actingstrangely and

The Last Hurrah - Nasta (25:05):
family.
Very much so.
None of that soft-spoken voicesand saying that someone passed.
White suits.
I couldn't wear a white suit tosave myself from too much of a
grub.

Lo Carmen (25:17):
Same.

Luckily we wear a lot of black.
It works much better for us.

Lo Carmen (25:21):
Ladies in black T-shirts.

Yeah, that's much more us.

Lo Carmen (25:24):
Could you tell me about some of the funerals that
you've done that might bedifferent most?

The Last Hurrah - Nastassia J (25:31):
A little bit.
We came into this thinkingwe're going to do these big,
crazy funerals and, you know,not Viking funerals, but
something to that effect andget, you know, funerals at the
Tote and things.
And we do do a lot of those,but we also do a lot of what
people would see as quitestandard funerals.
So our standard funerals dohave a few points of difference
and a bit more flexibility.
But I think people...

(25:51):
have chosen, tend to enjoy thetraditions and find comfort in
those kind of standard thingsabout death where you've got
your, or about funerals rather,where you have your set ways or
your family traditions of howthings should work.
So more often than not, thefunerals we do are relatively
traditional and saying that wehave done a funeral at the Tote

(26:11):
and it was a really beautifuland fitting send-off and there
was a Viking metal band playingand the Vikings were clad in
their Viking wear prior to theservice, so There was just a
bunch of big burly dudes insmall leather outfits having a
big cry because they'd knownthis gentleman from
kindergarten.
So that was pretty special andit really felt like it honoured

(26:33):
the gentleman well and what hewould have wanted.
Yeah.
Who he was.
And unfortunately for that samefamily, we've done a service
for a– older woman who, she wasan absolute saint and that was a
pretty traditional service.
So for the same families, we'reoffered quite different things
because it's dependent on theperson who's actually died and

(26:54):
obviously their families.
We're about to do a paganWiccan funeral and it's, I
believe, one of the first onesof this nature in Victoria.
So we're pretty lucky to be,that they found us and I think
they found the perfect personwith Kimba officiating it.

Lo Carmen (27:11):
It's about music.
Does that, tend to play a bigpart in most of the funerals?

The Last Hurrah - Nastassia J (27:15):
I think it does, especially just
because of where Kimba comesfrom.
Being a jazz musician, she'swell in that world and I think
it's a pretty beautiful part ofa funeral service, whether it's
playing...
as you're dancing queen, asyou're being taken out.
We've had some really amazingfamilies with musical talents
where you see grandkids doing asong for their grandmother and

(27:37):
it's just absolutely beautiful.
So it's very much a part ofwhat we do.
And we have one service for amusician.
We had kind of NewOrleans-style procession down
the road.
I think there was about eightmusicians that led our hearse
down, well, that walked behindour hearse.
We quite enjoy stoppingtraffic.
And that was one of thosemoments.

(27:58):
And it was really beautiful.
So it's very much a part ofwhat we do and at the core of
what we do as well because weoffer a philanthropic service.
So for every funeral we do,$100 is put into a philanthropic
fund and that supportsmusicians, artists,
skateboarders or any kind of–people from left of centre I

(28:18):
guess

Lo Carmen (28:18):
that don't can't afford a funeral

The Last Hurrah - Nastassi (28:20):
yeah and might need a little
something extra and it's thatkind of thing to cover things
like that procession that wouldbe so important and creating a
service and a memory for thepeople attending so that's a big
part of it

Lo Carmen (28:31):
did that come about through knowing a lot of broke
musicians that well

yeah I think so and You know, the
kind of support act system was abig inspiration for what we
wanted to do.
And I come from a skateboardingbackground.
Well, still vaguely dipped mytoe in there.
And I just know a lot of thesepeople have such a huge
community and it's so importantfor that community to have some
kind of closure and connection.

(28:57):
But putting on those servicescan cost a lot of money that
those people might not have.
So being able to provide thatfor them is something pretty
important to us.

Lo Carmen (29:06):
I asked Stass if she could tell us about any other
options or possibilities forthings that you could do after
your death.
And she didn't disappoint.

The Last Hurrah - Nastassia (29:16):
So we've got a boat that will take
you out to the continentalshelf.
And they'll also take you outas a whole being, if you choose
to, at sea burial as possible.

Lo Carmen (29:25):
Is that legal?

Yes, it is.
It has to be a depth of 3,000metres.
Can't have had any embalming,and you can't have had any kind
of radiation or radioactivetreatment in the last year, but
it is entirely possible.
Ashes make it a hell of a loteasier, but it is possible.
I spoke to a lovely gentlemanin New South Wales who does the
fireworks installations, andthat's pretty exciting.

(29:49):
But we haven't had anyone takeus up on that offer just yet.
The vinyl is amazing, but it'squite exciting.
Anything you do with ashes isso costly.
It makes it almost prohibitivefor a lot of people, whether
it's diamonds or rock.
You can turn them into littlestones.
It's quite pricey.
There's an amazing lady...
up in Queensland, I believe,who she makes traditional kind

(30:11):
of mourning jewellery, like theVictorian style, and she'll make
jewellery out of hair like theydid back in Victorian days.
So there's things like thatthat you can do that are a
little bit left of scenehappening here, which is pretty

Lo Carmen (30:21):
Do you ever meet the people that you're preparing
funerals for - have you dealtwith any terminally ill people
that know what's happening andwant to prepare t hemselves?

Yeah, it's a big focus of what we do
because we want our services tobe so personal and so exactly as
the person and their familywanted.
We like to be involved wheneverwe can.
And obviously it depends onwhere the person's at within
their own journey of being ableto even talk about it, let alone
plan the finer details.
But it is something we reallyappreciate and believe in when

(30:55):
it's possible.
Damn, it takes some strength todo.
So we've been really lucky tomeet some beautiful people on
that journey.
How do you find out the bestway to speak to people that are
dying?
That kind of naturalinclination, to put it pretty
casually, is that when you goto, say, KFC, and they say,
enjoy your meal, and you go, youtoo?
And it's like those littlethings that you just do without

(31:16):
realising, and you're like, oh,I'm an idiot.
But it's all just about owningthem and being aware of them.
But for us, it's just being asnatural and how we'd speak to a
friend in the exact samesituation.
So you probably will say thewrong thing at some point, but
you just own it and laugh aboutit and sit in it and just say,
yeah, it sucks, pretty much.
Yeah, right.
And just work through what wehave to.

(31:37):
work through and make the mostof the time we do have and try
and make our involvement asminimal as possible because you
don't really want to hang outwith funeral directors at the
best of

Lo Carmen (31:47):
Do you have a lot of people give you playlists?
Sorry, I keep asking the musicquestions.
I'm a musician.
I'm fascinated by theconnection between music and
funerals and what a big part itplays.

Oh, it's huge.
Kimba, when she's organisingthe funerals of families, will
ask them to create Spotifylists.
So one beforehand for whileeveryone's milling around and
one for after.
And obviously the songs youhave throughout the service.
And I've picked and chosen afew playlists that I really
love.
We had a great countryplaylist.

(32:25):
playlists the other day.
So they're all on Spotify asthe person's name in their
playlist and it's just prettymuch the best of their life and
the music they like and it'samazing.
And is that something thatfamilies share with each other?
Yeah, and I think they build onit and they just share it, the
link to their families and theycan add in the songs and it ends
up being such a wide range ofall kinds of music and it's just

(32:49):
amazing.
It really goes to show and itshows...
You can kind of track a life'sjourney as well.
Different phases

Lo Carmen (32:58):
of interests.
Yeah.

Like I'm quite sure my dad will have
a combination of MarlonWilliams and Rage Against the
Machine.
It's such a weird combination,but it's just what happens in a
lifetime.

Lo Carmen (33:08):
Are there any particular songs that turn up
over and over?

The Last Hurrah - Nas (33:11):
Everybody Hurts all the time.
And obviously like Nat KingCole and What a Wonderful World
comes up a lot.
And the classics you can'treally go past.
There was a great Billy Joelsong that's come up a few times
recently.
No, we didn't start the fire.
No, but I thought that would bea great one, especially for a
witness cremation.

Lo Carmen (33:30):
Are there many humorous, do many people bring
humor?
Yeah, I think

not so much in the music for us
that I've noticed.
But there's nothing easier thangetting a laugh at a funeral
and it's so important to kind ofbreak the ice.
And just the stories you hearoften of like big nights.
We had one lady who'd drunkthree bottles of gin with her
best friend on one night andthey always come up and they're

(33:56):
always the ones that get thegiggles.
But it's just, yeah, I thinklaughter is a really important
part of the funeral process, andit comes up a lot, and we're
pretty lucky.
And laughing while you'recrying is something pretty
special.

Lo Carmen (34:12):
It sure is.
That's a kind of crazy,beautiful combination, isn't it,
when you have all thosemotions?

And a lot of people talk about the
celebration of life and thefuneral being a party, and we're
totally here for that, but wealso try and steer clear of that
aspect of it to a point,obviously depending on the
people, because as much as it isa celebration, it's still shit
that you're there in the firstplace and having to be in that
situation.
So we try and celebrate thelife and mourn the loss at the

(34:41):
same time.

Lo Carmen (34:41):
Yeah.

Our thing is that we're open to
anything.
So Kimba's pretty amazing atcoming up with weird and
wonderful ideas and then we'lljust try and make them work.
There's not much in the way ofyou can do in regards to
disposition in Victoria.
It's pretty much...
burial cremation or sea burialwhich is quite difficult sea
burial can also mean you can getdropped from a plane too which

(35:03):
can be quite exciting yeah sothere's not a hell of a lot of
options but within that we canbe as creative as we possibly
can

Lo Carmen (35:09):
What what has working in the death industry taught
you about death?

I think for me from the get-go it's
always been about family um andi'm not religious in any way at
all.
So I guess that's where I findmy comfort, is that it's about
the people that are left behind.
And people can just be soincredibly beautiful at such
horrible times.
And that's what I've taken awayfrom it, is that no matter how

(35:36):
terrible the situation is, itjust highlights how important
family is and how important Italways makes me feel so soppy.
Like how important, at the endof the day, all that really
matters is love.
And that's what you pass on toyour people.
And that's what we do.
It's all what we celebrate andwhat we try and memorialise.

Lo Carmen (36:00):
Another person with a deep appreciation for love,
authenticity, art, joy,generosity and staring death
straight in the eye is curator,writer, creator, presenter and
all-round remarkable, prolifichuman Marieke Hardy.
Marieke's first collection ofessays was called You'll Be

(36:22):
Sorry When I'm Dead.
She co-created the ABC seriesLaid, about a woman whose
ex-lovers keep dying, which wasrecently adapted for US
audiences.
One of her many ongoingprojects is Better Off Set,
Eulogies for the Living andDead, a spoken word art salon
celebrating words, stories andhuman experiences.

(36:44):
Marieke and I have been bumpinginto each other and dancing
around the same rooms for manyyears, and she was one of the
very first people I reached outto for this podcast, so our
conversation was recorded in thevery early days.
She has since created thepodcast Marieke Hardy is Going
to Die, where in her words shespeaks with a variety of

(37:06):
interesting, beautiful,imperfect humans who are
definitely going to die andhelps them plan their dream
funerals.
I was struck by somethingMarique noted in one of her many
bios online.
I never want to take forgranted life's impermanence.

Marieke Hardy (37:30):
I love that we've known each other for so long,
but it's, you know, the Venndiagram of a shared passion for
talking about death has broughtus together in our latest
six-digit way.
In a whole new way.
Yeah, that feels really good tome.
It checks out.

Lo Carmen (37:46):
Me too.
I think we're both quiteinterested in having important
conversations in life, perhaps.

Yeah, and I think the death people find each
other, really.
Almost 80% of my personalprojects in the last 10 to 15
years have been about death.
And it's only when I becomemore, and now I'm very
consciously making things aboutdeath because I don't feel like

(38:16):
my life has any specific meaningto it.
Like I don't think I'm goingto, leave behind well I chose
not to have children so I'm notleaving behind a human memento
so they're more than human youknow what I mean like I'm not
contributing yeah and I havereflected a lot because I am I I

(38:37):
think every day about the factI'm going to die I think it's
the most beautiful reminder tolive vividly and fully and um to
listen to your values and tolisten to your heart and what to
let go of and what to reflecton.
Yeah, I think having a moreconscious understanding of that
makes me look back and go, wow,I really must have been trying

(39:00):
to reach for that in other artways before I even realised that
it was something I wasinterested in and that it gave
me, yeah.

Lo Carmen (39:09):
I started thinking about it because I was writing a
book and it was about Itfocused a lot on people that
have died, and I just thought somuch about how a life resonates
long after it's gone.
Somebody said to me thatsomebody might die, but the

(39:29):
relationship doesn't.
doesn't die you still have thatsame relationship with the
person except that you can'treach them any longer in a
general kind of way but they canstill impact your life so much
It's so true - and i mean lookmy best friend's a witch so i
think she'd have some set viewson whether you can still reach
people after they die and I'm,you know, I believe in energies,

(39:53):
u and Not sure I specificallybelieve in people from our past
lingering at the kitchen table.
I'm not sure that I believe in that either.

I know that my dog visits me and then I got a
visit from a dead friend theother night in my dreams and
it's so specific Lo, it's notlike I am here to impart a way,
it's I get to touch them again,I get to hold their body again
and obviously my dog was with mefor 14 years and I knew her
body better than I knew my ownand I always know in the dream

(40:27):
I'm like my dog is dead and I amdreaming and this is awesome
and I'm getting to hold heragain and hug her and I wake up
feeling exhilarated yeah andit's different for I've had
dreams that she's in or dreamsthat friends are in and I don't
wake up thinking I was visitedit's quite specific when my dead
friend came to me the othernight and I got to hug him and I

(40:48):
felt his body in my hands likeI felt his little skinny body in
my hands oh my god he visitedlast night that's so cool so
that is beautiful I don't knowwhat that is but it's it's
really specific it's all abouttouch which is one thing o
bviously, we do lose.

Lo Carmen (41:08):
Tell me about the amazing sounding mock funeral
that you held for Magda at theWriters' Festival.
Well, look, I am intrigued bythe concept of living wakes and
actually in other death-relatedprojects.
Emily Zoe Baker and I started aspoken word event called Better

(41:28):
Off Said Eulogies for theLiving and the Dead.
Oh, wow.
Words unspoken, the words thatwe carry with us that we wish
we'd said.
It's a spoken word event.
Four readers talk about thewords I wish I'd said.
That's their brief.
And then we ask one reader toperform a living eulogy, to
eulogize someone or somethingthat is still with us.

(41:49):
And it's been very varied.
Aunty Lou Bennett eulogized thejabberwong birthing trees and
Jan Fran eulogized ScottMorrison's career.
And so it's like a verydifferent.
Wow.
You know, I keep thinking aboutsaying things to people while
we can.
And, I mean, that's the beautyof a living wake, whether

(42:09):
someone is ill or we're alldying, you know, whether it's
someone consciously, knowinglydying or not.
Yes.
I lost actually the friend whovisited me the other night,
amazing, a friend last year, andhe was an ex-lover of mine and
a big romantic, superchaotically romantic type, you

(42:29):
know, as we all had about 10 orso years ago.
And I remember looking at hiscoffin at his Zoom funeral and I
was going, I was thinking,we're clear.
Like he and I had said, I loveyou, I'm sorry, I forgive you.
We talked, you know, not, Imean, His death was very sudden
and unexpected.
Right.

(42:50):
So you'd had that
conversation during life.
Yes.
Not at a

deathbed.
No.
And I remember thinking I saideverything to that person I
needed.
Obviously, I want him to stillbe alive.
But I was going, wow, he knewthat I loved him and forgave him
and that I was sorry and viceversa.
And it made me reflect on anyother outstanding people in my
life and thinking when I go if Igo today or they go today can

(43:18):
we look at each other's coffinwhatever it is and think I'm
clear with that person and itprompted me to write to things
to people that I needed some towrite some air that needed to be
cleared yeah yeah Yeah, withoutthe expectation of anything in
return.
But it was I'm sorry and thankyou and goodbye and
acknowledgement of now finishedfriendship and the value of that

(43:43):
friendship.
And that felt, you know, soeven thinking about Better Off
Said, the eulogies for theliving and the dead, our
publicist asked Emily and I,what is something you wish you'd
said?
And I reflected.
I'm like, I can't think ofanything.
Wow.
You know.

Lo Carmen (44:00):
That's sogood.

Yeah.
And that's, I think, the giftin understanding your mortality
and the impermanence.
The people that are close to mein my life are under no
illusions as to how much I lovethem.
I tell them consistently andeffusively.
There's three people from mypast who my closing is not with

(44:23):
them personally.
I can't close with thempersonally.
I have to do that workinternally.
They're not safe people for meto revisit.

Lo Carmen (44:28):
Mm-hmm.
So even though there are thingsunsaid in those three
relationships.
You've acknowledged ityourself.
Yeah, it's something for me tocarry.
So it's not always safe toemail the person and go, me,
it's me, I'm sorry, or whateverit is, or fuck you, or whatever
it is.
Not that I would want that tobe a final note for someone.
But yeah, I felt really goodgoing, hit by a bus tomorrow.

(44:51):
I feel pretty clear witheverybody.
I feel really happily clear.
And that, you have to keepchecking that.
You do.
Because you'renot always clear.
And I mean, it feels to melike, wouldn't it be wonderful
if we were all brought up tothink like that, as much as we
were brought up to be polite andnice to each other, that we
also accepted that this might bethe last time you see somebody

(45:15):
every time you see them.

Yeah, and it's such a, you know, it's our
shared experience.
It kind of changes everything.
It does.
It's so interesting, Lo.
You know how you just sort ofgravitate towards dead stuff
without even realizing thatyou're doing it.
So I've been reading.
I reread Muriel Sparks.
The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie,which is the peerless, beautiful

(45:37):
book.
And then I got on a MurielSpark bent.
But I picked up a book from hercalled Memento Mori, which, of
course, is about, I didn'trealise, old age and dying and
death.
And I thought, well, this isgreat.
Of course it is.
And so this quote I loved.
So it's, Henry Mortimer, thecharacter said, if I had my life

(46:00):
over again, I should form thehabit of nightly composing
myself to thoughts of death.
I would practice, as it were,the remembrance of death.
There is no other practicewhich so intensifies life.
Death, when it approaches,ought not to take one by
surprise.
It should be part of the fullexpectancy of life.
Without an ever present senseof death, life is insipid.

(46:22):
You might as well live on thewhites of eggs.

Lo Carmen (46:26):
Wow, that's beautiful.

And I was just like, that's some random Muriel
Sparks book I picked up and Ijust went, well, of course,
that's the one.
And, you know, I'm superconscious as well of the
privilege it is for us toreflect upon death in an
emotionally interrogative way orjust a spiritual way where
white women, we live in a whitesupremacist society where we

(46:54):
can, I mean, I think there's aromantic of death often people
write songs about it we livewith less violence and sense of
murder or life expectancy thanother women around us or other
people around us that are in ourshared community so I
absolutely acknowledge that forme to sit and reflect and read
Muriel Spark books on death is aprivilege in

Lo Carmen (47:17):
Yes and to talk about how wonderful it is to have
great conversations about deathand to be fine with it when
that's not something that'savailable to so many people.

Absolutely and I think you know I come from a
background of quite extremefamily trauma and I have
obviously I've had access to ahuge amount of privilege in my
life that has helped me claw myway through that as a white cis
woman.
Sometimes I reflect on it.
I'm like, wow, I survived it.
I'm alive.

(47:49):
So I feel really...
lucky in that regard you knowthey say the life examined like
the meaning of the life examinedand without sticking my head up
my own butt in order to surviveI've had to examine my life and
my actions within that lifewhat a gift I feel so lucky to
have made friends with thisweird little dude that lives in

(48:12):
my chest what a beautiful littleweirdo it's been so nice making
friends with that person andthen this person is going to die
with me that's what I think ofmy relationship to my body and
my body's been with me throughall of it.
My little weirdo higher selfand lower self, they've all been

(48:32):
here the whole time.
This team's going out together.
No one's going out with us.
It's just us.
So I've made a lot of peacewith that.

Lo Carmen (48:41):
The work that you have done is something that will
live on with your little weirdowill be out there in the world
forever.
all kinds of people to discoverfor years to come.
Maybe, though.
Like, maybe that's the thing.

Maybe.
I mean.

Lo Carmen (48:55):
Not that that should be the reason why you do it - I
was just reflecting on...

Oh, no, absolutely not.
Oh, yeah.
But I'm also conscious of,like, I don't think a lot of the
film and television I've madeis going to, like, people in 50
years are going to be going, youknow, blowing the dust off a
DVD and going, you know.
It's the art that.
that I'm going to lie on mydeathbed going, I'm glad I made
that, is mostly secret.

(49:23):
I've done a lot of secret artunder different names that
people won't know about.
It's anonymous.
It touched people in a way thatis not self-serving because I
don't talk about it.
And those people are going todie holding those secrets.
And just the fact that ithappened at all is a gift.
I don't need to have people.

(49:43):
Again, I'm an only child.
I'm not close to my bloodfamily.
I don't have kids.
I don't even know who will bepacking up my house, you know,
when I'mgone.

Lo Carmen (49:55):
Right.
We just had a friend stay lastnight who has been working
packing up people's housesduring COVID.
And it was an amazingconversation.
He said that.
Nobody else really seemed tocare about people's stuff, but
he's an actor.
And so he was fascinated by allof the stories left behind and

(50:18):
why wasn't anyone there helpingto clean it out?
And he has started collectingartwork from the houses.
He said so often he'd find allthese kind of secret artists,
people that just painted intheir garages or whatever, and
he's taking it all and he'sgoing to hold an anonymous
exhibition of unknown artists.
And I think it's so beautiful.

Can you please tell me when that is on?
I really love that.
I really love that.
I do too.
So they're people that havedied Lo?

Lo Carmen (50:48):
So, yeah, he's just working for a company that are
employed to go and you know,clean out houses after
somebody's died.

There was this guy who his job, one of his
jobs, was to, when someone died,they employed him to go to the
house and quickly clear away thenaughty items that his family
had to come and get rid of thevibrators and granny's nudes and
stuff like that.
That was one of his jobs.
His other one, this is soamazing, what was he called?

(51:16):
The Coffin Confessor.
And people paid him togatecrash their funeral and
basically stand up and go, Johnknew that his wife was having an
affair with Sam.
Goodbye, everybody.
LAUGHTER Wow.
I know.
I think his story is sointeresting.
He's Australian too.

Lo Carmen (51:37):
He sounds amazing.
I want to find him...
Having always been intrigued bydeathbed confessions, there was
no way that I was not going totrack the Coffin Confessor down.
First, I found his book, openedit up to page 194.
I always like to start in themiddle of a book to see if it's
going to get me in.

And read this (51:56):
I reached into my vest and retrieved the letter
Rod had given me.
Hi dickheads, I'm dead andyou're all still here.
Make sure you enjoy what timeyou have left.
Death is a fucking scaryadventure.
I embraced it, had to really.
I don't have much of a choicenow, do I?
Now that I'm gone I've gotsomething to tell you.

(52:17):
As some of you might have knowndeep down or suspected, I was
bisexual.
I was in love with a man andthat man stands amongst you
right now.
That is from a scene where theCoffin Confessor has to go and
read this letter to a bunch ofbikers and then make sure that
Rod was buried with his bike,which is technically illegal.

(52:40):
But Bill Edgar had found a wayto do it by slipping the
gravediggers a couple of hundredextra bucks to make themselves
scarce until after the service.
That's the kind of guy BillEdgar is.
On the back of the book, he'sdescribed, Bill has been many
things in this life.
homeless street kid, car thief,son of a notorious gangster,

(53:01):
maximum security prisoner,professional punching bag,
inventor, private investigator,family man and a survivor of
horrific childhood abuse.
And now he's the CoffinConfessor.
Here's Bill.

The Coffin Confessor (53:15):
Basically, you know, he's on his deathbed.
We were talking about death,the afterlife, what goes on,
what we thought may happen.
Then he said he had a fewthings he'd like to say, so I
suggested he do a eulogy.
But he said he'd been to enoughfunerals where, you know,
eulogies just aren't played, thefamily doesn't play them, and
it's too confronting for him.
So out of a joke, I said, Icould crash your funeral for

(53:38):
you.
And a couple of weeks later, hesaid, I'm going to take you up
on your offer.
You're going to crash myfuneral.
And this is what I want you todo.
He said at a specific time whenmy best mate's doing the
eulogy, about halfway through, Iwant you to stand up, and tell
him to sit down, shut up, orfuck off.

Lo Carmen (53:58):
And the guy kind of crept off in shame, is that
right?

The Coffin Confessor - Bi (54:01):
Well, he did after I revealed that to
the whole audience that the guyhad been trying to have sex
with his wife whilst he was onhis deathbed, and he can't do
anything.
He couldn't move.
I mean, you could see what wasgoing on.
I mean, his wife hated theadvances of this guy, but he
kept coming around and keptbeing just a pervert and a
harassment, you know, so...

(54:22):
After that day, no doubt he'llnever come around ever again.

Lo Carmen (54:28):
So it was a way for the man on his deathbed to
reclaim some power and to diefeeling like he wasn't being
taken advantage of.

Yeah, exactly.
I think a lot of them seem toreclaim a bit of power.
The others, there's some thatare just fun or fun-loving or
very emotional but loving.
So, yeah, it's just a way forthem to say goodbye their way.
and no one else saved for him.

Lo Carmen (54:52):
Right.
What are some of the lovingones that you've been
involvedwith?

The Coffin Confessor - Bill E (54:57):
w I guess the most loving one was
giving a letter once a month toa gentleman that his wife had
passed away.
It was just a loving letter ofeach time that they'd met or
been somewhere.
And it was heartfelt.
And the last one was a really,go and get on with your life.
It's goodbye.
I'll never forget you.
Don't forget me.

(55:17):
But you've got to live.

Lo Carmen (55:18):
Wow.

The Coffin Confessor - (55:19):
Which is very emotional.
I actually had to post it froma certain place where they got
married and met.

Lo Carmen (55:26):
Right.

The Coffin Confessor - Bill (55:26):
So every month he received this
letter from there.

Lo Carmen (55:30):
Postmarked from their place.
Wow.

Yeah.
So that was beautiful.
And then there was a ladythat...
She actually was a hoarder.
And she...
Oh, wow.
Amazing.

(55:53):
Yeah.
You know, don't forget to checkthe soft drawer and don't just

(56:19):
check the bottom drawer, butpull the drawer out and have a
look under the little cornersthat are hidden away, you know.

Lo Carmen (56:25):
Yeah.

The Coffin Confessor (56:26):
Ridiculous little things.
So, yeah, it made you reallythink that people do leave
behind a lot of stuff that ifyou die instantly, no one knows
it's there.
Absolutely.

Lo Carmen (56:37):
Well, has it made you feel your mortality in a
different way?
Like, do you...
think about what happens if Idie today?
What have I left behind?
Is everything taken care of?
That kind of thing.
Yeah,

The Coffin Confessor - Bil (56:53):
it's definitely made me think more
about what I leave behind andwhere it is and who I trust to
tell where everything is.
A gentleman had a fall and hewas taken to hospital and he was
not allowed to go back home.
He was going to die.
So they said you won't be goingback home.
He was petrified of his kid'sWhat, like sex stuff?

(57:23):
Yeah.
Yeah, you could say it was asex dungeon.
It was incredible.
Wow.
You know, he's in his 80s.
It was just unbelievable whathe had.

Lo Carmen (57:39):
You're kidding.
My God.
So what do you do with all thatkind of stuff?
Just put it in garbage bags?

Yeah, well, yeah, I wrapped it in
sheets and garbage bags, broughtit back to the farm.
I live on a farm.
I have a big incinerator.
Right.
And I film myself taking it andremoving it and then destroying
it.
And then I take that video tomy client.
So he's quite happy and hiskids can go to the house and
he's not embarrassed.

Lo Carmen (58:04):
So how do people find

The Coffin Confessor - Bil (58:06):
you?
Google.
Yeah, it's just Google now.
Yeah, word of mouth is

Lo Carmen (58:10):
pretty good.
To begin with, was it word ofmouth?

Yeah, absolutely.
Because the first year, Ithought that was it.
I didn't even think of theCoffin Confessor.

Lo Carmen (58:20):
You just thought it was an odd job and I'll just do
this weird job.

The Coffin Confessor - Bill E (58:24):
I just went in as myself and I
just went, you know what?

Lo Carmen (58:27):
Wow.
They've both been in love eachother.

(58:48):
But now one has died and theynever got to...

So they've been married to other
people and,

Lo Carmen (58:53):
Was that made publicly at the funeral?
So did everybody hear that?
I guess.
Wow.

Yeah, yeah.

Lo Carmen (58:59):
And what was the reaction

It was beautiful.
Both families knew.
They sort of had a feeling, youknow.
Yeah.
It's forbidden love, basically.

Lo Carmen (59:09):
Oh, what an amazing story.
I

I was sitting in the cafe after the
second funeral and I had to comeup with a name.
And I thought to myself, whatdo I do?
I thought, I crash funerals.
I don't want to do that.
I don't wanttosaythat.
t s t

Lo Carmen (59:24):
It kind of has connotations of drinking the
booze and eating the food,doesn't it?
It's not quite the same.
I

The Coffin Confessor - B (59:30):
I came up with the confessor.
They're in a coffin and I'mconfessing for them.

Lo Carmen (59:35):
When doctors told my beautiful mother-in-law she
probably didn't have long leftto live...
She decided all that reallymattered to her was to spend
some quality time with her fivechildren and extended family,
many of whom lived in NorthAmerica, including us.
She wanted us to come backwhile she was alive, not for her
funeral, which she'd alreadydecided she didn't want to have.

(59:58):
She thought it was unfair thatshe'd miss out on all the family
gathering together becauseshe'd be dead and she just
wasn't into funerals.
So arrangements were made torent a house in the Blue
Mountains, large enough toaccommodate around 20 of us, and
we all congregated there for afew days to celebrate her life
and show our love for herthrough feasting, jokes,

(01:00:20):
champagne, conversations andstories.
It was a living wake withoutthe formal title, and we were
all able to share stories andtell her and each other how much
we loved her while she was wellenough to enjoy it.
Gaggles of kids piled into bedwith her in the mornings and
gave her snuggles while she hada cup of tea.
Afternoons morphed intoevenings with us all reminiscing

(01:00:44):
while watching the seven hourlong curated slideshow my
husband had spent the precedingweeks obsessively collating.
It was really a perfectfarewell and it left me
wondering why living wakes arenot more of a thing.
This is also one of the reasonswhy I wanted to speak to
Marieke.

Marieke Hardy (01:01:05):
Well, I lost a friend to breast cancer, I
think, coming on to 12 years agonow.
And I still don't know if sheknew she was dying.

Music (01:01:16):
Right.

And I think...
I don't know if that was her indenial about it or her
protecting her family from it,but we never had the I love you,
goodbye, I'm sorry, thank youchat because it was just
everyone was sort of pretendingit wasn't real.

Lo Carmen (01:01:31):
So you're all just trying to be as normal as
possible and just be happy andcomfortable and not make it an
awful experience.

Yeah, pretty much.
And then to this day I'm like,did you know?
Was there anything you wantedto say that I could have said to
you or any letters?
Yeah.
And I don't think she wanted tolook at it.
And I've tried to talk to herbecause I still have somewhat of
a relationship with my fatherbut not my mother.
And my dad is 75 and I've triedto go– you don't want to push

(01:02:06):
someone into talking aboutdeath, but he's going to die.
And I want to know what hewants.
And is there anything that Ican do to help him?
Anything he wants to say?
And I tried to have aconversation with him and it was
not, He wasn't comfortable.
And that's fine.
And I wasn't going to push himwith that too.

Lo Carmen (01:02:22):
And what about Magda's?

Oh, yes.
Well, I mean, that was part ofthat same festival.
So we wanted to, you know, givethat living eulogy to someone
still with us.
And I mean.

Lo Carmen (01:02:34):
And what made you choose Magda?

Wow, come on.

Lo Carmen (01:02:37):
Because she's so beloved.

A living treasure.
Absolutely.
So wonderful.
And her beautiful memoir wassuch a.
traumatic, painful read.
I know it was a very difficultthing for her to write and the
book tour was really challengingfor her.
And for someone like that whohas experienced a lot of pain in
her life and given so much ofherself, just to have a room

(01:03:02):
full of people going, you are soloved and adored and we're here
holding you.
was a really special thing andwe arranged, you know, her
friends to get up and speak forher and people to sing and just
this beautiful room.
So it was a really joyousexperience, as a living wake
should be,

Lo Carmen (01:03:20):
How amazing.
How did she feel?
How did she cope?
Was it very emotional?

Yes, she cried.
She just cried.
She cried the whole time.
It was great.
I mean, she laughed and criedbut it was a very intense
experience for her and thenafterwards we were making sure
she was okay and she and herfriends just came back to the
green room and just had thisraucous time And they sat and
drank some wine and they werelike shrieking with laughter.
And, you know, when you leave agood funeral– You feel
exhilarated and you're remindedthat this is an impermanent

(01:03:48):
experience and you're like, oh,my God, I have to, like, go out
and eat the sky and telleveryone I love them and, you
know, learn to ride a pennyfarthing or whatever it is I
want to do, build an animalchurch.

Lo Carmen (01:03:59):
Exactly.
So, yeah.
And then you wake up with ashocking hangover and it all
goes to hell.

Yeah.
You're like, I'm just going tostay in bed and watch Friends.
Wow.
See, that's the thing, though,though, like it doesn't– This
understanding about deathdoesn't mean I'm up every day
going, how do I change the worldand how do I live it?
It's just like it means thatthere's a self-forgiveness on
those softer days when I do needto just eat a burger and have a

(01:04:26):
Bloody Mary and read WhoWeekly.
That doesn't make me go, I'mwasting my life.
No, of course not.
At all.
No.
I feel like I've lived a veryvivid, full, lovely life and I'd
be happy to go tomorrow.
If it happens, oh, my God, areyou kidding me?
Like, what a cool life.

Lo Carmen (01:04:44):
Yeah, exactly.
I feel the same.
But you know how you read thosethings all the time about what
would you do if, you know, youwere given one week to live?
And I think, well, I think I'djust stay where I am and enjoy
my family and, you know, read agreat book, strum some guitar
without any sense of you shouldwrite a really good song now,

(01:05:07):
just live for the sake of livingtype thing.

Yeah.

Lo Carmen (01:05:11):
There seems to be a lot of pressure on people to go
out and do something amazing.
Bucket list stuff.
Yeah.

Well, you hear all those really beautiful,
tragic stories about people whosave up for their, you know,
their...
caravan for their bigretirement trip around Australia
or whatever it is they're goingto do and they pass before that
happens and so you knoweverything that goes in the fuck
it bucket for me I just do Iyou know the ones I've never

(01:05:40):
been to Japan but I've traveledI'm really lucky to have
traveled widely very privilegedto have traveled widely I wanted
to see the northern lights Iremember really going I want to
see Aurora Borealis and at theend of 2018 I went to Tromso in
Norway I went three nights outin the bus.
The third night we saw them andI sat there drinking.

(01:06:02):
I had a hot chocolate withwhiskey in it and I was
listening to music and justweeping.
How fantastic.
Boy, I saw that.
The sky poetry was right in myeyes.
Wow.
Yeah, if I had one week left, Idon't know what I'd do.
Drink French champagne and...

(01:06:23):
Read a great book.
I don't know.
Talk to friends.

Lo Carmen (01:06:26):
Yeah.

Yeah, see, I've made peace with the fact I'm not
going to read everything or doanything.
Maybe I'll never get to Japan,you know.
And there's lots of things,like lots of bags of rocks I
carry.
I don't think I'll ever reach apoint where I feel comfortable
with my family trauma.
Like I don't see a box tickedwhere I'm like, I'm cured.

(01:06:49):
I'm happy now.
Right.
I accept that that's going tobe with that pain and a lot of
the anger and sadness I justwill carry with me.
I will keep doing the work soit doesn't affect my life in a
negative way.
But there's no end point.
I'm not like I'm a healthy,functional person, the end.
My job is perfect.

(01:07:10):
I found the love of my life,like none of that.
I'm in love with a beautifulman at the moment and I don't
like that's great.
He might die, I might die, wemight break up, whatever.
Nothing sits, you know, andthat's okay.

Lo Carmen (01:07:26):
Yeah, it's all continuous cycles of birth,
death, movingon.

And that we're part of nature.
I think that's really helped mea lot as well, you know, in my
meditation, reflecting on mybody and how grateful I am that
it's like– weathered all thefucking shit i've done to it my
whole life for one thing but uhand we're still on speaking
terms but understanding thatwe're part of the cycle of

(01:07:53):
nature as much as anything elsewho are we to think we're above
beginning from the earth andgoing back to the earth we're a
part of it what how awesome howawesome that we're a part of it
that's a real gift so

Music (01:08:12):
Dressed sexy at my funeral My good wife Dressed
sexy at my funeral My good wifeFor the first time in your life

Lo Carmen (01:08:57):
Over the many years since it was released, I've
spent a lot of time listening toBill Callahan's song, Dress
Sexy at My Funeral, and feelingequally moved and amused and in
awe of his abilities to writesuch a perfect song.
For those unfamiliar, thenarrator of this song is urging

(01:09:17):
his generally plainly dressed,quiet wife to turn up the heat
at his funeral and to recountthe list of all the crazy places
they got it on in lieu of atraditional eulogy.
He reminds her, most of all,don't forget about that time on
the beach with fireworks aboveus.
This line of thinking somehowencapsulates everything that I

(01:09:42):
feel and aim for in my ownfuture death, and I also relate
to a statement he made in a 2013Pitchfork interview.
Death is something that I tryto avoid in songs and in life,
but it's hard.
It's just the big joke at theend of existence.
I am someone that has struggleddeeply with being told what to

(01:10:04):
do my entire life.
And I've always looked to therule breakers and the rebels and
the imagineers to lead the wayforward, which is really the
quality that unites thedisparate collective of people
I've spoken with and about inthis episode.
They all decided to break therules and the expectations

(01:10:27):
around how we should approachdeath and brought a little extra
pizzazz, joy, meaning andinterrogation to it.
a more subversive,outside-the-box approach, which
is always a quality that Iadmire.
Thank you so much to MariekeHardy, Fanny Lumsden, Stassi

(01:10:47):
from The Last Hurrah, and BillEdgar, The Coffin Confessor.
And thanks to you for spendingyour time here with me,
listening to Death Is Not TheEnd.
If there's things you'd like totalk about, please head over to
locarmen.substack.com.
My weekly newsletter, LooseConnections, and we can discuss
there.

(01:11:07):
Excerpts from When I Die byFanny Lumsden and Dress Sexy at
My Funeral by Smog, also knownas Bill Callahan, used with
permission.
Thank you.
The Death Is Not The End thememusic was composed, performed
and recorded by Peter Head.
The Death Is Not The End stingis from the Bob Dylan song, also

(01:11:28):
performed and recorded by PeterHead.
Thank you to Epidemic Sound forthe tracks Sunrise Stadium,
Fields of Scotland and ShiningTears.
The repertoire on thisrecording is licensed by Apra
Amcos.
The artwork used on the podcastwas created by Craig Waddell.

(01:11:48):
Death Is Not The End wascreated, written, recorded and
edited by me, your host, LoCarmen.
Death Is Not The End is a BlackTambourine Productions
production.
For more information, pleasevisit the show notes.
All the links are there.
And please do rate and reviewthe show wherever you listen if

(01:12:10):
you enjoyed our episode todaybecause it really helps other
people find it.
And see you on the other side.

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