Embark with us on a transformative journey as Dr. Heather Gessling and I reunite to unravel the intricacies of a healthcare system ripe for renewal. Witness the birth of Healing United, a holistic alliance that promises to reshape how we approach wellness, and learn about the incredible power held within the Spike Shield supplement, specifically crafted for those affected by covid injections. With our upcoming Pharma Free Living series teasing the horizon, we're poised to guide you through a medical renaissance, where informed autonomy and alternative therapies take center stage.
Step into the world of medicine where the once sidelined hero, nutrition, is now front and center, challenging the pharmaceutical narrative that has long dominated our approach to chronic illness. Dr. Gessling's awakening to the profound potential of dietary wisdom, sparked by the pandemic's spotlight on nutrient-related conditions, will inspire you to reconsider how we've been addressing health. Together with Dr. Gessling, we share a heartfelt discussion on the necessity of integrating traditional and alternative practices to foster a deeper, more compassionate connection with our patients.
In this episode, we transcend the traditional bounds of medicine, embracing a collaborative spirit that unites doctors and holistic practitioners alike. As we introduce the innovative concept of a Private Membership Association, we invite you to join a community dedicated to the 'Whole Person Approach to Healing.' Here, we are more than physicians; we are educators, coaches, and unwavering advocates for your health autonomy, and we're on a mission to empower you with the knowledge and tools to spark personal breakthroughs for a vibrant, pharmaceutical-free life.
RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
- Previous interview with Dr. Gessling
- Deconstructing Conventional Medicine Podcast episode
- Spike Shield supplement
- DetoxU Workshop
- Healing United PMA
Reverse Any Chronic Health Condition in Three Steps - The Simplest Path to Healing You've Ever Seen
NEED TO DETOX AND HEAL?
- Visit our website
- Compare our Detox Programs
- See our recommended products
- Download the Healing United PMA App
- Reverse Any Chronic Illness in Three Steps
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to episode number 31.
I have a special treat for youtoday.
My guest is once again DrHeather Gessling.
You may remember my firstinterview with her about
dissolving medical illusions andin that previous episode we
talked about her journey ofawakening to really the ugly,
history and weaponization of herprofession.
We talked about what it waslike being fired from a major
(00:22):
hospital for having the audacityto treat patients during the
height of the COVID hysteria,and so if you want to know more
about her background, you can gocheck out that previous
interview and I'll link that inthe show notes for you.
But this episode was especiallyfun for me because I got to tell
the story of the first time Imet her and the giant pattern
interrupt moment I had in doingso and I didn't really have a
category for a practicing doctorlike her she just would not fit
(00:45):
in any of my stereotypicalboxes.
So if you're familiar with mywork then you know I'm not shy
about throwing the medicalsystem under the bus or pointing
out the illogical underpinningsof cut, burn and poison and how
the system often harms peopleinstead of helping them.
And, by the way, if what I justsaid feels like hyperbole and
you think I'm a crazy man.
You might check out episodenumber two, where I deconstruct
(01:08):
the history of what we have cometo call conventional medicine,
given up on them or is onlyoffering the pharmaceutical
escalation ladder or the kind ofthe body part removal service.
And it's usually right beforeor after that point that people
(01:30):
who become clients finally hitthe place of awakening where
they realize they need adifferent approach.
And in getting to know DrGisling, she had been through
her own similar awakening.
Despite her and I coming fromvery different backgrounds.
We had this instant bond oflike oh, you get it, we were
speaking the same language fromour first conversation.
So to me she sets the standardsfor what a medical doctor
(01:52):
should be or could be.
And if you're someone who feelslike you kind of have to engage
the medical system, orespecially if you feel that way
and you've become disillusionedwith it and you just crave some
perspective on how to navigateit or disentangle from it, I
think hearing from Dr Gesslingwill give you a new set of
lenses to know that really whatyou're looking for from that
profession and when to just walkaway from it because it doesn't
(02:15):
have the capacity to see you orserve you.
We also talked in this episodeabout where she fit into the
process of what I was working oncreating a program to help
people detox and heal from theCOVID injections and how her
graciousness with my incessantquestions really turned into
extended conversations and abudding collaboration between
(02:35):
her and I and other doctors andwe all just realized that we had
something to learn from eachother.
And really I guess the shortversion of that divine
appointment of meeting her, itled to a vision of a kind of a
rebirth and redefinition of theword healthcare and we've had so
much fun and found so muchmutual benefit collaborating
across these typically siloeddisciplines of the medical world
(02:56):
and the alternative world andthe health coaching world and
we've actually formed a holisticpartnership that we're calling
Healing United and we think it'ssomething the world sorely
needs.
So you get a little peek into awhole different way to find
help for your health in thisepisode.
But we also talked about herbackground in building
supplements for specificconditions and how that led to a
new supplement we announcedright here on the podcast called
(03:18):
Spike Shield.
She came to me with the idea ofbuilding our own supplement as
an upgrade to a previous productshe had created to help people
who were either injured by theCOVID injections or maybe they
were reluctantly forced to takeit and they're nervous about the
long-term effects.
So we talked about also what wehad to do to figure out a way
to create a multi-disciplineapproach to healthcare and why
(03:39):
we had to establish somethingcalled a private membership
association.
And, fun fact, we set upHealing United as a ministry,
which opens up even more ways wecan speak freely and help
people.
So anyway, this episode is Iguess it's almost the classic a
doctor and a coach logged into aZoom meeting and this is what
happened next.
So really neither of us couldhave guessed what would unfold
(04:01):
in getting to meet each other.
But welcome to a fresh visionof what healthcare could be,
welcome to a window into a newand growing network of doctors
and coaches who actually worktogether and share the same
value.
So I'll have links in the shownotes to what we're up to in
case you want to check it out.
And one last thing I'll say isstay tuned in the future for
some fascinating conversations.
We're calling Pharma FreeLiving, where we will discuss
(04:22):
specific medications and helpyou have awareness of what
they're doing in your body andhow you might wean yourself off
of them.
And, by the way, this was heridea.
Like I told you, where do youfind a medical doctor who does
that publicly?
But if you want to ensure thatyou don't miss out on those
conversations, just make sureyou are subscribed to our
mailing list.
You can opt in attruewholehumancom or you can go
(04:43):
to healingunitedtoday and opt inthere.
You can find the form to opt inon the footer of either site.
Okay, without further ado, enjoymy conversation with Dr Heather
Gessling.
All right, hello everyone.
Welcome to today's episode.
We have a unique one for youtoday, dr Gessling, and I
thought we'd do a little justhow we got here, summary kind of
(05:05):
story of what we've been up toand some of the almost like lets
you in on some of ourconversations of how we got to
do the work we do and thecollaboration that we are now a
part of.
So anyway, welcome back, drGessling.
Nice to have you with us againtoday.
Thanks for having me back tohave you with us again today.
(05:26):
Thanks for having me back.
Yeah, buddy, okay, so we met Idon't know, it's closing in on a
year ago now, something likethat where I was just introduced
to you because I was working ona project to try to do my best
as a coach with a sacred duty tohelp people heal, to make a
statement about my bestunderstanding of how to help
people heal from the COVIDinjections, and that turned into
a monstrous research projectbeyond anything I imagined
(05:49):
because of the still the thingswe don't know about what's in
them or the mechanisms of harmor long-term effects and the
breadth of adverse events peopleare experiencing.
There's just so much there, andso I got introduced to you as
someone who could help me get myhead around more of the
physiology of the spike proteinand what it was doing in the
body or how it might be able tobe neutralized or blunted or
(06:13):
help people heal from it.
And so you were just graciousenough to let me in on all that
you had studied and researchedand speed up my learning process
, which was super helpful, and Iremember our first conversation
.
I just went straight to thebottom of the rabbit hole with
you like okay, so are thesethings?
Do we agree about these?
And we just went.
(06:33):
If you guys have listened toany of our other podcasts or the
episodes I've done, you know Ilike to deconstruct, I like to
rewind history, I like to lookat how in the world did we get
here, how did they pull off thisop?
And so I just went through.
So we've got kind of an uglymalice agenda going on.
We've got weaponized medicine.
I went just through the breadthof how this whole COVID op
(06:53):
happened and you're like yep,yep, yep, just check mark all
the way through, which for mewas so comforting.
I'm like wait a minute, hang on.
And then, as I got to know youand I got to hear your
perspectives on things, not onlywere we in agreement with so
many of the elements of whathappened in world events, but
(07:14):
then philosophically which forme I have to admit, was a
gigantic pattern, interrupt.
I wasn't used to I don't know ifI've ever met a medical doctor.
I have.
I've kind of had this jadedlook at them and like, yeah,
approach everything with an MDwith skepticism, just because of
what I've learned about theprofession.
And I meet you and it's likehang on.
I didn't have a category to putyou in.
(07:36):
You think holistically.
You have you incorporatehealing modalities into your
practice.
It's not just here, I'm notjust a drug dispenser or refer
you to a specialist who canoperate on you.
You read research and you do itwith discernment and you look
for it Like there might beagendas here.
You do research to buildsupplements.
I'm like what doctor does that?
You talk about diet andlifestyle with people which, for
(07:58):
those who don't know, doctorsdon't really get any nutritional
training.
But yet you've dove into thatand you understand that.
You help people deprescribe orget off medications.
You actually have a copy of it.
I found this out not the firstconversation, but later.
You have a copy of theDrug-Induced Nutrient Depletion
Handbook in both your clinicsand refer to it and actually
help people understand whatmedications are doing in their
(08:19):
body.
You're someone who openlyquestions vaccines, not like in
the closet private conversationlike but you'll openly say
there's some stuff here thatjust doesn't make sense.
You're not afraid to talk aboutfax injury and you help people
have confidence to take agencyand, if need be, have hard
conversations with their otherdoctors or stand up for
themselves.
Who is this woman?
(08:39):
And then you, let me challengeyou.
But somehow there's this youdidn't let your education get in
the way of learning.
There's no defensiveness withyou, there's just an eagerness
to learn and a humble.
You'll spar with me, but not ina combative sense, just a iron
sharpens iron.
And the more I got to know you,the more I just became wowed by
(09:00):
who is this person and sogracious to just sit and
tolerate or help me with mytechnical questions and come to
understand other things.
So I just, I guess for I wantedthe listeners of the people who
start to see what we're up to toknow what a unicorn Dr Gessling
is, how helpful she is and howholistically she thinks and how
(09:21):
much she actually takesseriously the do no harm element
of her profession, and not onlythat.
We share values from faith andfrom family and so on.
And it just became specialreally quickly the type of
rapport and relationship we had.
So that was my take on gettingto know you and how some of the
(09:42):
just the graciousness you lend.
We'll talk about the story alittle more in a second, but
flip the script for a second forus and tell people what it was
like to find like this.
What's your perspective onfinding some obscure health
coach tucked away on theinternet somewhere?
And how in the world did webecome fast friends?
What was it about collaboratingwith me that became interesting
to you?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Well, there is so many things along the way of
your words just now that I feellike I want to touch on, I don't
want to forget each of thoseaspects and that was such a kind
summary of you know, yourimpressions about who I am, who
I am as a doctor, who I am as aperson, as a Christian, as
(10:27):
somebody who cares abouthumanity, and I feel like all of
that, all of the aspects, arereally just because the Lord has
led me down that path, path andI've been humble enough to be
(10:58):
open to what he's showing me,instead of just relying on my
training or MD or, you know,heal.
The concept of healing is was amind blowing concept to me,
because I thought I healed andthen, when I realized I didn't
heal, then I had to figure outhow I, how I had to heal my
(11:21):
patients instead of just treatthem.
The concept of nutrition inmedical school, as you mentioned
, is non-existent.
It's non-existent.
And in fact it's even belittledor you know sort of degraded as
a concept.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, it's almost like it's that's for people who
aren't smart enough to get intomedical school is kind of yeah,
I get sometimes.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Or that our food is so awesome that really nobody
needs to worry about nutrition,because, I mean, it's you know
the 21st century.
Our food is great and it's not.
Of course, it's depleted andeven the fortification of it can
be harmful to individuals,especially if you have, like, a
(12:11):
MTHFR mutation.
And so whenever I startedrealizing back in 2020, about
who was most susceptible tomorbidity or mortality from the
COVID infection, and realizingit was those with chronic
illnesses, and then realizingthose chronic illnesses were
(12:31):
tied to nutrient deficiencies,and then realized one of the
reasons why hydroxychloroquineworks is because of being able
to help bring zinc into the cell, and that zinc nutrition or
zinc deficiency was related todiabetes, all of it was just
like fireworks in my brain.
I thought I'm missing something.
I have been missing somethingfor a long time about nutrition
(13:03):
and how to fight infection orheal or reverse bit.
Back in 2021, I met Dr JanaSchmidt.
She's a really, really amazingand good friend of mine.
She's a naturopathic doctor.
I remember sitting at a tableat a conference we were at
together, her and her husband,and I told her that I was
envious of her degree, I wasenvious of her naturopathic
(13:27):
training, I was envious of herunderstanding of nutrition and
really healing modalities that Iwasn't taught in medical school
and that was a big step for mebecause, MDs have a chip on
their shoulder.
Really, I mean, they have thislike we know more, we're smarter
(13:47):
, we have it all figured out,we're the scientific ones.
And so whenever I said that toher, I remember feeling sort of
freed or humbled from my degree.
My, from my degree, like thisis this is not where it's at.
(14:09):
I mean I can use my degree tohelp people and use my knowledge
with.
We were talking about this, youand I yesterday about the
knowledge required, knowledge oflike biochemistry,
pathophysiology, anatomy, all ofthat.
I can use all of that but atthe same time, recognize that my
training of usingpharmaceuticals and medications
to treat, instead of realizingwhat's needed to heal there's
(14:32):
good aspects and bad aspects ofthat education and use the good,
use my reputation, use mydegree to help people in a trust
aspect where you know they kindof want that MD.
Some patients kind of want thatMD, kind of want that background
, but at the same time they knowthat I'm not going to be using
pharmaceuticals unnecessarilyand in fact, like you said,
(14:52):
getting patients off ofmedication, deprescribing those
medications, the complexity ofmedications and what they do to
as a harmful thing to you andnot just treating a certain
condition, but as an overallsystemic harm, is a fascinating
line of interest or attentionthat we should, we should
(15:19):
understand, which is thatpharmaceuticals harm us in
general.
Most pharmaceuticals have verydetrimental effects to the
efficiency of our cells nutrientabsorption, affecting other
body systems, and that conceptis not well discussed or
(15:40):
understood and I think it shouldbe pursued.
Discussed or understood, and Ithink it should be pursued.
I think patients shouldunderstand that taking a pill
does not only convey some sortof single benefit, but it can
also cause harm in so many otherways to their body.
(16:01):
Whenever I met you, there wassuch a appreciation of your
ability to understand health andwellness without a formal
degree or education and openingup the concept of somebody that
(16:23):
doesn't necessarily have amedical license or degree, or
even in any type of license inthe healthcare field, can do
more benefit, can help a patient, help a client or a person more
than a medical professionalthat gets.
That got me very excited,because not only were our
(16:46):
conversations deep and complexand the ability to hash out
things in order to get to thebottom of what's necessary to
heal a patient, but also yourunderstanding was extensive
enough that I trusted yourability to be a match with me in
(17:10):
in learning, researching andeducating those around us to to
make, to do good and to be ablessing.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, well, well, thank you, and that's the first
time I've heard this too, so Iappreciate you just laying out
what what stood out and thatthere's.
I guess one of the things Iappreciate so much about
spending time with you is justthe.
I guess I hope it's true thatpeople would say the mutual
humility that we both have, thatneither of us knows everything.
(17:41):
We're smarter together than weare separate.
And there's that neither of usknows everything.
We're smarter together than weare separate, and there's so
much upside to challenging eachother.
I kind of imagine this is whathealthcare could have been all
along.
This is what it's meant to be.
The scientific method issupposed to say what's your best
idea and let me see if I canpoke holes in it, and we go both
ways on that and it's helped mebe a better coach and see
(18:03):
things with more clarity and Ifeel like it goes both ways and
I think that's been some of whatwas fun.
Is that somehow your reputation, your, your practice got your
patient base, got benefit fromsome of these more holistic
concepts and zooming out and notmissing the plot or getting
down the weeds of biochemistryand realizing this person's
lonely or thirsty or needs a hugor their diet's terrible or
(18:23):
they haven't moved in a week andand all the things that are so
oh yeah, duh, there's that too,and and they're more top of mind
and um.
So I guess where we went withthat is, over time, enough of
these conversations where weboth feel like we're growing,
having this recognition that,geez, this is, this is more fun
and the collaboration is umhelpful.
(18:44):
And to your point about both ofus have a network of people you
know the naturopath that youmentioned and I've got a whole
host of friends in the, I guess,what could be broadly termed
the alternative health space orthe coaching health space and
people who have differentabilities for different types of
situations and pooling thoseresources and connecting.
And so we ended up havingconversations with three or four
(19:05):
of us or multiple people on thecalls at once and being able to
collaborate at even more depthand watch people's eyebrows
raise and light up and see thepossibilities of what could be.
And I came I don't know who hadthe idea where we came of it
first, but the idea of like,what if we formed another entity
?
What if we did something?
And so the short version ofthat story is.
We came up with a new entity wecall Healing United, which is
(19:28):
basically it's doctors andcoaches in collaboration and
doctors is expanded to be morethan just medical.
It's medical and alternativeand coaching combined.
It's almost this funthree-stranded cord that adds
such a wealth or breadth ofability to help somebody and to
say here's the angle I wouldcome at this with and how would
you help?
(19:48):
And even just to know, I've gota phone call I can make if I'm
stuck on a particular issue,what would you do?
How would you help this personreframe this mentally?
Or how would you help thisperson know what to say to their
doctor?
What other healing modalityhave we not thought of?
And to see other people whohave a specialization come
together and compare notes hasbeen so much fun.
(20:09):
I've never enjoyed my work asmuch as I have since you entered
the picture.
So anything you want to addabout the element of Healing
United and what we're up to orthings I didn't cover in that
short story there.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
I think that Healing United is a paradigm shift for
the good as far as understandingwhat it takes to to have the
scope necessary to really heal.
(20:42):
I mean, we're in such a complexstate of the world and of
medicine and of health right nowbecause of harm, because of
intentional harm done to us thatthrough the, through the
injections, through the man-madeviruses, that I don't think
(21:05):
that there's really a box thatwe can fit everything perfectly
in to get to the bottom ofthings.
And so this is the, I feel likeas good as we can get to try
and figure out how to approachour current situation, which is
(21:31):
kind of scary it's.
It's been in my practice overthe last.
I remember sitting in a in apatient, in an exam room with a
patient, in May of 2021, andhaving this epiphany, this
moment that, whoa, everything Ithought I knew on how to treat
(21:54):
patients because of thisinjection, because of the
introduction of this injectionto a patient's system,
everything I thought I knew onhow to approach things is is it
seemed worthless, like I hadthis moment where I truly felt
like what I knew was worthlessand so being able to come
(22:16):
together with with your skillsand with skills of other
healthcare professionals oralternative medicine
professionals and with the armof that you know three-legged
stool, or leg of thatthree-legged stool being a
(22:36):
medical degree.
Mainstream medical education, Ifeel like, is as complete as
we're going to get, but at thesame time having the humbleness,
like you said, to listen toeach other and not be closed off
about the concepts.
(22:57):
I mean, you and I have had some,I feel like, some really good
conversations that can sometimesget a little bit like we're
like no, I'm right, no, you'reright, no, I'm not, or we go
back and forth and but still,you know there, but, but at the
but, at the end, I think we'reboth then saying, oh wait, I now
(23:19):
see what you're saying.
It sometimes takes someintensity for those, those
thought patterns to really bedisrupted, because we, because
it for survival in our careerswe have to know what we're
(23:40):
talking about, we have to knowhow to proceed.
And so when you get challengedby some of the other thought
patterns, you have to be willingto look at it, look at it from
that angle, look at it from thatlight and say, oh, I get it now
.
Yeah, and when you do, that'swhere I feel like clarity,
(24:03):
breakthroughs, truetransformation can happen where
we can help the patient or thecustomer.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, yeah, I remember years ago I read a book
.
It was so affirming to me whenI read it.
It's called Range.
I think they may have changedthe subtitle, but the one I had
when I read it was whyGeneralists Thrive in a
Specialized World, and the titleof the book Range being able to
see with range.
One of the things that came hometo me in that was how much it
(24:33):
helps to have minds outside ofthe particular discipline.
Look at the same problem withyou, because they just bring a
completely different frame ofreference to help you see
something that to them wasobvious but that it never
occurred to you before.
And I think that's we've bothhad several of those episodes
where, like now that I can seeit through that lens, there's
something else I was missing andit's that made me just more
(24:56):
interested in expanding therange and having more opinions
and and the humility to say, orjust the welcomed gosh, what
else do I not know?
Like I want to hear somebodyelse challenge me here, Like
find a hole in this thing,rather than having that be an
assault on my intelligence, orput me in box and talk me down
and tell me that I can't thinkthat way or that I'm just wrong
(25:17):
to have somebody like yourselfor others we've talked to say
here's the perspective I bringand here's maybe something that
you hadn't thought of has been.
I guess it takes a level ofbeing difficult to offend and
being able to set your ego asideand be like okay, hang on, I
don't know everything, let mesee.
And but to to also findsomebody else who is can play
(25:40):
defense without being defensiveor can play offense without
being offensive, that is so goodstatement.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
It's been fun to be able to do that, and I found
that in you and I.
I just for humanity's sake,thank you.
It's maybe a better coach, butit's.
It helps me take concepts tosomebody who was going to bring
a skepticism to them.
And also, when I throw my bestarguments at you and you're like
, yeah, I can't poke a hole inthat, it's like, okay, good,
(26:10):
it's affirming that I might beon the right track and have
something genuinely helpful tooffer here.
So, anyway, thank you for thatand anything else to add before
I switch to another part of thestory.
No, I think, I think I'm goodon that, okay, cool.
So one of the things that washappening in your life when we
met was that you were wrappingup your time at the wellness
company or TWC, and what came tolight is that you had built
(26:33):
their supplement line.
You were the one that kind ofdid the research and figured out
what need, what formulationsseem to be the most helpful for
dealing with a spike protein inparticular, or dealing with some
of the downstream adverseevents from people who took the
COVID injection, and so thatbecame a project.
As you were leaving there, youhad the idea that you brought to
(26:54):
me.
It's like I think I could, nowthat I've done more research, I
think I could actually make abetter supplement than what was
there and they're not interestedin doing it and would you want
to make one?
And I was like what?
I've never done this before.
I have no idea what's going onand it turns out we've had to
integrate six differentcompanies into the effort to
(27:15):
source and have a simple buybutton where people can get this
.
But rewind the story a littlebit.
Tell us about where you were inthat journey, what it was like
making the first supplements andwhat ideas you had for making
the new ones or any other partsof that story you want to tell.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah, yeah, I would love to tell that.
So it was summer, spring, latespring, early summer of 2022
that me and Dr Jana Schmidt, drJen Vandewater, worked hours and
hours throughout that sorry, itgot loud throughout that summer
(27:52):
to develop the supplement line,the product line.
There was one or two that werealready formulated by some of
the other physicians that wereon the board at the time, but
the rest were really our brainchilds and our hard work and
(28:13):
research to put together that,including the spike supplement.
They have Um and so, as thingschange throughout the year of
2023, several of the of themedical board members or the
medical support um professionalsthat were part of the wellness
(28:36):
company left that company,including me, and around the
time that I was leaving, I hadwe had I had shared with them
that we could update thatformula and they weren't really
interested.
So it was a perfect time andopportunity to to do that on our
(28:57):
own.
I think that that was ablessing to be able to say, oh
well, let's just get this doneon our own.
I think that that was ablessing to be able to say, oh
well, let's just get this doneon our own.
Like you said, it hasn't been.
It's not taking.
That step was not absolutelysimple and we're still finished
putting the finishing touches onthat, but excited to bring that
formula, that low cost, thatsimplicity, to our customers and
(29:20):
patients.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yeah Well, tell them a little bit about what makes
that product so special.
So the product's called SpikeShield and you ended up
narrowing it down to six keyingredients.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat's in it and what makes it
so potent.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Yeah.
So the two I feel like the twomost important components of the
formula are the proteolyticenzymes, first one being
natokinase.
And proteolytic enzyme means anenzyme that breaks down protein
.
Lytic means to break somethingdown, lysate, and so proteolytic
(29:57):
enzymes can break down proteins, and so proteolytic enzymes can
(30:21):
break down proteins.
What we know is that spikeprotein although I know we don't
have to get you know to a pointwhere we say with absolute
certainty that somebody ismaking spike protein in their
body or that the vaccine encodesfor spike protein what we know
is that there are inflammatoryproteins being produced in
patients post-vax, potentiallylong-haul COVID or post-COVID
and they're creating and it'scausing problems.
It's causing inflammatoryproblems in the vasculature,
(30:44):
it's causing clots, clots thatare not necessarily just fibrin
clots but also theseproteinaceous amyloid type clots
.
We have in vitro preclinicalresearch that shows that natto
kinase can break down spikeprotein, which is most likely
(31:06):
indefinitely being made bypatients that have had that
injection, that mRNA or even DNAinjection.
And so we want to be able tobreak down that spike protein
because it's pathologic.
Pathologic means not good.
It's bad for your body,creating that inflammation
leading to clots, leading toreally your body rejecting those
(31:30):
cells that are producing spikeand creating autoimmune
conditions.
So if spike can be broken downwhich we have a couple of
studies that show that it can bebroken down, by natokinase In
particular, there's some otherproteolytic enzymes that will
probably do the same,potentially lumbrokinase or some
(31:51):
others, but also bromelain,which we put in that formula.
There's research that showsthat bromelain can have that
impact as well.
There is also research thatshows that dandelion root can
help block spike from attachingto the ACE receptors.
(32:11):
So we added dandelion root tothat and I feel like that.
That's a overall verybeneficial supplement for many
reasons.
When we develop this supplement,when I develop this new
supplement, the concept is thatwith every piece of information
(32:34):
that we currently have, thissupplement can help.
This supplement can help.
But even if somehow we find outoh, maybe somebody's not making
that protein indefinitely ormaybe something else is going on
what we, what the attempt was,was to make it beneficial and
(32:55):
broad enough that it can, it canstill attack all of the bad
things that are happeningpost-vax really, almost no
matter what route that they'rehappening, and that was.
I mean, it's kind of magical inthat way, and so one of the
(33:17):
other things that is beneficialin the supplement is black cumin
seed, which has a potentanti-inflammatory effect along
with curcumin, and so we knowpatients are inflamed and so we
have that in there.
Black pepper can potentiate theeffects of the curcumin and it
(33:40):
also can be beneficial, so wehave that.
So the point being whether,whether or not we have every
single thing perfect, which isone of the one of the time
consuming processes that you andI have gone through to try and
get it as right as we can, basedoff of the information that's
out there.
(34:00):
No matter what, this supplementcan be beneficial for those
who've taken the vaccine, forthose who are worried about
shedding and exposure to thevaccine, for those who have long
haul COVID symptoms, for thosewho have current COVID symptoms,
for those who have currentviral symptoms.
(34:21):
All of those ingredients, thoseherbs, can help, or proteolytic
enzymes can help.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Yeah, fantastic, and that's really what was fun about
just watching you.
Here's another research studyand come up with how would we
create this?
And what I do as a coach is Ihave to step back and look at
how do I support the body?
I can't treat anything, I don'tprescribe things, I just say
what does the body need in orderto function optimally and what
(34:49):
things are gunking up the engineand getting in the way and
keeping it from being able toheal, and we kind of just
checked those boxes as we wentthrough that process of it can
do all of those.
And so you mentioned peoplewho've taken the shot, people
who have experienced, whohaven't taken it, but maybe
they've experienced symptoms bybeing around.
Those who have.
What we now know is somethingthat's called shedding, which
the FDA lists as a side effectof all other gene therapies.
(35:12):
So some of them are Luxturna,roctavian and Zolgensma.
All have shedding on the listof things that are side effects
from them.
And if you're somebody who'sexperienced something like that
I didn't take it, somebody elsedid.
Now I have symptoms this wouldbe something that could help in
that instance.
And then we also thought, okay,if there are other mRNA products
that end up creatingpathologies or pathologic
(35:34):
proteins or give the body aninflammatory burden.
If there's other products likethat that go mainstream, whether
it's food I don't know how manypeople know how thorough they
are in trying to get mrna intoeverything's food, air, water.
I read something yesterdaythey're trying to vaccinate
trees now to help the cocoaplant survive.
(35:55):
It's like.
Whatever the problem is insociety, the answer is a vaccine
.
It's just this weird.
You know, hell-b bent on makingsure we use mRNA for everything
.
So, depending on what they rollout, this would be a way to
help them, kind of no matterwhat that is, but in a more
targeted way, the best shot wehave to know this would be
something that a lot ofdifferent boxes or a lot of
(36:18):
different uses would beavailable for.
So anything else I missed inthat summary there.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
No, I mean, that's really what we were thinking of,
you know, to try and make it asbroad as possible in order to
be as helpful as possible and asfoundational with the
ingredients you know, so thatthe body could use it to route
it in any way it needs.
And that's what we want, andthat's the foundation of our
(36:45):
detox.
You is to figure out the basics.
I mean, we, we, we can talkabout that and explain that more
, but the basics is to developthe foundation, whether or not
it's through some basic herbalsupplements or basic nutrition,
basic modalities to help thebody heal, and so I feel like
(37:07):
that our Spike Shield product isreally a good representative of
our philosophy.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Yeah, yeah, it really is.
Is there any reason in yourmind that someone wouldn't take
it Like?
What are some indications whereit would be maybe
contraindicated?
Are there any?
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Yeah, there are.
Actually, I would say, ifsomebody has a propensity for
bleeding, if they're already onthree or if they're already on
anticoagulants some patients areeven on triple therapy If they
haveots that are really stubbornor have had recurrent
(37:42):
cardiovascular issues despitebeing on anticoagulation, with
thrombus or clots, this isprobably not a great idea.
It could be.
I mean, I know that therehasn't been any evidence of
increased bleeding from thesesupplements.
Necessarily, natokinase, as Imentioned earlier, is a
(38:05):
proteolytic enzyme.
One of the things that canbreak down is spike, through
research that we have.
But another thing that it canbreak down that we've known for
years and one of the reasons whywe put it in our original
formula, is that it breaks downfibrin, and fibrin is what
contributes to clot formation.
Fibrin aggregation is whatcontributes to clot formation.
(38:26):
Now I think that fibrinaggregation in those that have
had the vaccine can bepotentially just one of the
first steps.
But then I think that there isthis protein component of
developing these long tails,these amyloid type protein clots
, which also there's researchthat shows that natokinase can
(38:49):
break down amyloid and that'slisted in our aggregation of
research.
But so I would say, if you havea propensity to bleeding.
Not a good idea.
I wouldn't take it if you'repregnant.
I wouldn't take it if you havean allergy to soy.
Technically, natokinase issupposed to be soy free, but we
(39:14):
do have anecdotal stories ofpatients who have soy allergies
and they take it and they stillhave.
They know that they're havingan allergic reaction.
Um, there may be some otherthings that I'm forgetting, um,
but I would you're, you'rewelcome.
I would advise that you'reprobably going to need to talk
(39:35):
to your healthcare professionalor doctor before you start it.
Good luck.
If they're going to know whatthose things are, though, and
they're're going to and they'reprobably going to just tell you
don't take it because they don'tknow.
I mean, I have patients thatthe stories that I get, when
patients come in and tell me,when they tell them what
vitamins that tell us best forus, what vitamins they're taking
(39:57):
, very frequently thatspecialist will just say stop
taking those.
They won't even look to seewhat they are or what, what
their mechanism of action is orhow they can benefit the patient
.
They just say stop taking them.
And then the patient comes backto me and I'm like, yeah, they
don't even know what they'redoing.
They don't even know what thosethings are doing.
(40:18):
So you know you can.
I were supposed to say you haveto talk to your healthcare
professional, and the reason whyI'm going to say that is
because maybe you do have acontraindication and maybe your
physician would know thatnatokinase can break down fibrin
and it may not be so good foryou.
Any of the other componentsthat are in there.
Bromelain is just anotherdigestive enzyme, proteolytic
(40:39):
enzyme.
It doesn't have as much potenteffect against fibrin as far as
I know, and then dandelion rootand bromelain, cumin seed, black
pepper.
I don't think there's reallymuch contraindication to those
other than if you have a knownallergy.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yeah, yep, and so just there you have the caveats
or the reason behind.
Talk to some other, get otheropinions to weigh in on this,
but at the end of the day, Ithink we're both big proponents
of you having agency and makingyour own choices, and we're
giving you the best informationwe have.
And so you are really.
You take all this informationat your own risk, but you don't
be shy to exercise your ownoption to choose what you put in
(41:16):
your body, and if you feel likethe advice you're being given
from anywhere feels off, thenjust go with that.
There's something about yourgut instinct that it's either
asking you to learn or it'stelling you, for a good reason,
to stay away from something.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
So, yeah, we want to touch on that too, because
really that's a growth thatpatients need.
That's a part of themselves thatpatients need to build up and
exercise and grow, which is theagency and autonomy, because if
they don't feel like they havethat, then they're not going to
be making decisions for theright reasons, they're going to
be taking potentially bad advice, they're going to be doing
(41:51):
things that go against their guton what's good for them.
They have to feel free to beable to do what is best for them
despite a specialist pushingthat or their primary pushing
something.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Yeah, and one thing I love about you and I do
frequently in my own work isjust giving people confidence
and language and rationale fortheir perspective and being able
to stand in the fire a littlebit and realize you're okay with
it.
Like I can entertain a doctor'sperspective and that doesn't
mean I have to accept it, Idon't dismiss it, but it doesn't
(42:24):
.
If you get a doctor that makesyou feel small or talks down at
you or things like that, that'stypically where I'm more on like
we might want to find adifferent doctor.
You shouldn't be made to feelbelittled or ridiculed for
having a fair question when yougo to talk to a doctor.
So yeah, and I know that peopledon't get that from you- no,
they don't get it from me.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
But you know, I mean they may have gotten that from
me years ago, you know, justbecause I had such confidence in
my views before I really,really questioned my views.
And also, we were taught inmedical school different
approaches to being a doctor.
We were even we were taughtsort of the different approaches
through the decades of how MDsapproach their patients and, you
(43:08):
know, including like apaternalistic view where you
basically you decide what's bestfor them and you control the
data and you control theinformation, the flow of
information to them.
Maybe they you think they can'thandle all the information, so
you don't tell them all theinformation.
I mean all of these views werediscussed and taught not
necessarily as right, butdiscussed in medical school, as
(43:29):
when you are a MD, you can holdthe cards.
You sort of hold control whichis not right.
I mean that that's really thatconcept is wrong.
It should be a partnership andI really, as an MD, have always
sort of held that view that mytreatment of the patient or
(43:52):
interaction with the patientshould be a partnership.
We should discuss all thefactors, we should discuss all
the information, we shoulddiscuss all the possibilities
and then come together and makethat decision based off of what
they feel comfortable with,maybe what they're financially
able to do.
Also, you know that a lot oftimes isn't taken into account
or what they feel like is a goodnext step for them, dependent
(44:19):
on all of the environmentalfactors or situational factors
or whatever's going on in theirlife at the time.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Well, I think I had never heard of it till you just
said or thought of it, but it'salmost like you had this grab
bag persuasion course that youwere kind of given subtly
through the medical training ofhere's how to handle the
objections or here's how tomaintain your air of the
authority in this arena andalmost keep the patient from
(44:47):
having that sense of like a peerrelationship where you're both
trying to solve the same puzzleand bringing your perspectives
to it.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Yeah, yeah.
And that concept of authorityis what has become so damaging
to people in almost any area oftheir life concept, concept of
authority within medicine,concept of, really, I think, a
wrong concept of authoritywithin religion and churches, a
wrong concept of authoritywithin relationships.
I think you have to haveautonomy and agency of your own
(45:18):
self to be healthy, notdysfunctional, not feel
controlled, and make gooddecisions.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Yeah, and now you guys know more about why I like
her so much.
It's amazing to meet somebodyrefreshingly interested in
people as you are.
So all right, well, two otherthings we'll touch on before we
wrap up here.
So you had hinted at that wehave a course called Detox you,
and so it really is meant to bepaired with, or be a complement
to, the Spike Shield supplementwe talked about.
(45:47):
There's so much more to healingthan what people can swallow,
and we wanna make sure we alwaysbring that to light and that we
don't get stuck in thereductionist little tiny sliver,
these parallel trenches ofeverything has a biochemical
solution and we can just playbiochemical whack-a-mole and
somebody will get well, itreally is about the whole person
and what's going on in theirlife and the habits they do or
(46:07):
don't have, and the recognitionthat we cannot cheat the
biological laws of physics.
And when we don't have thebasics down water and air and
food and exercise and stressmanagement and sleep if we're
not doubling down on those, it'sprobably not going to matter
what we swallow.
If you're a dehydrated,constipated, pessimistic couch
(46:29):
potato, it's probably not goingto make much difference what
pill you take.
And so, recognizing thatthere's so much more to the
healing puzzle and that, at theend of the day, heather and I
are not healers.
Actually we're just teachers.
We help collaborate and thinkwith you and the body's doing
the work healing and our job isto just steward what we know and
help you find the rightquestions so you can come up
with the right answers for yourown health.
And so that course detox you is.
(46:50):
It's a two day course that weput together.
It's just a free gift to say weare here to be helpful, and if
you have learned everything youneed to know from us, you have
our blessing.
And if you're interested inmore help, we can talk about
that too.
So it's really figuring outthat one.
We want it to be able tocollaborate.
We want it to be able to builda supplement that we could talk
about, because there's otherthings the FDA is really
(47:11):
particular about what you canand can't say, and you better
not say the wrong thing, becausewe own the rights to the words
cure, treat, prevent, mitigate,ameliorate, so on.
And then you so the linguistichandcuffs they put you in, and
then the realization that wewant to be able to to put on
different hats.
We want to put on the, thecoach hat, the doctor hat, the
alternative hat.
We want to.
I want to be able to put on mypastor hat.
(47:32):
I want to be able to put on myother skill sets as a life coach
and as a project management andto help people with emotional
and relational skills.
And how in the world do wepackage that?
And it became we had to stepback and say what kind of
organization can you possiblyform in order to be able to do
that for people?
And where we ended up with wasa private membership association
(47:55):
which really kind of to be ableto say we're going to take this
stuff off the record and we'regoing to have private meetings
and we're going to do this asmembers and be able to just
speak freely and help you likewe would a friend or family
member.
So tell people a little bitabout what a PMA is or how.
We kind of came to thatconclusion at any color of
something I might've missed.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Yeah, I'm going to speak first to your how we would
speak to a friend or familymember, which I think is so
important, because how we speakto a friend or family member is
out of love and that's how Ispeak to my patients, and I
think that's how you speak toyour clients, and I feel like
(48:35):
this project is a work of love,to be able to utilize the
talents and skills that the Lordhas given us to help with
healing.
The PMA concept is, I feel, likea component that allows us a
little bit more freedom, youknow, a little bit outside of
the constraints of someperceived rules, regulations,
(49:03):
whatever within our within, likemy medical society, or whatever
where we feel limited.
Pma allows for more freedom ofdecision-making, thought and you
know, different things that wewant to pursue, and I feel like
it also is a concept of a group,a unified group that is a body
(49:30):
of people that all have the samemission or goal that we want to
pursue, which I think also ishealing in itself, and so
whenever we have this group ofpeople that want to pursue
healing and we don't haveconstraints, then the sky's the
(49:53):
limit.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
Yeah, it's what it really is is what healthcare
could have been, or what some ofus never knew we were always
looking for.
It's that like, oh, this is,yeah.
I can just be honest here.
I nobody's like.
Welcome to a room full ofpeople who don't have an ego,
welcome to a room full of peoplewho are trying to help and are
open to other ideas, and forthose minds to get together and
(50:14):
say here's how we'd helphumanity heal.
And yeah, we're.
We have basic criteria ofvalues that we have.
We, we have basic criteria ofvalues that we have.
We don't just bring anybodyonto our team, but we have such
a new windfall of excitement andhope and perspective on.
Wow.
This could be a statement of agame changer way to approach
(50:35):
health for so many people andjust ground them in the first
principles of health, groundthem in the principles of
healing and community and inrecognizing there's so much more
to their whole humanness.
You're not just.
We don't reduce you to a labtest or a math equation or a
printout that we can then tinkerwith.
You're complex, like all of us,and it's okay that there are
(50:56):
other things to figure outbefore you even get to the point
where a supplement can finallymake the difference.
Sometimes there are majorthings about life that just a
question or two can illuminate,where you say, wow, I just had a
breakthrough in my thinking andnow that I've had that, I can
see a believable, hopeful pathto the life I've been wanting
anyway.
Speaker 2 (51:17):
So anyway, that's A breakthrough in thinking, I
think is crucial, because if youdon't have breakthroughs in
thinking, then you're going tohave difficulty in changing
habits and doing what's good foryou, and habits have such an
impact on our health.
And so, yeah, I think that thatconcept is that's a concept
that I do explore with most ofmy patients too is, you know,
(51:40):
getting to the bottom of theirdecision-making and their habits
.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
Yeah, which, find me any of you listening, find me
another MD who does that.
I challenge you.
It's just not many, but it isso important and until you can.
You know, essentially I'mpicturing you in the office
setting your prescription pad onthe table and just looking at
the person in the eye and andkind of just having a heart like
that's what medicine is for thefamily doctor.
You know that we remember fromlittle house on the prairie days
(52:06):
, that's, yeah, that's that'show medicine was, because I see
the family, I see what you'retrying to accomplish, I see the
struggles you have and I realizethat food is scarce or water's
not great, whatever you just yousee the whole person in front
of you and, um, so we'll seewhere this goes.
It's been a fun ride for both ofus.
We have no idea all theupcoming twists and turns or
(52:29):
divine appointments that are inour future, but it's a fun way
to think about spending our daysand doing work that we know
contributes to humanity and canbe a balm for so many really
strongly felt needs.
So, heather, thanks for takingthe time again today.
It's a privilege to be able tocall you Heather, not just Dr
Gessling, I consider you afriend and love spending time
with you.
Same here, cool.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
All right?
Speaker 1 (52:51):
Well, thanks for listening to you guys.
We stay tuned.
You can check us out on theinternet at healingunitedtoday
and learn more about all thedifferent things we're up to,
and we will keep rolling out newthings and letting you in on
some fun collaborations that wehave upcoming in.
Hello and welcome to episode number 31.
I have a special treat for youtoday.
My guest is once again DrHeather Gessling.
You may remember my firstinterview with her about
dissolving medical illusions andin that previous episode we
talked about her journey ofawakening to really the ugly,
history and weaponization of herprofession.
We talked about what it waslike being fired from a major
(00:22):
hospital for having the audacityto treat patients during the
height of the COVID hysteria,and so if you want to know more
about her background, you can gocheck out that previous
interview and I'll link that inthe show notes for you.
But this episode was especiallyfun for me because I got to tell
the story of the first time Imet her and the giant pattern
interrupt moment I had in doingso and I didn't really have a
category for a practicing doctorlike her she just would not fit
(00:45):
in any of my stereotypicalboxes.
So if you're familiar with mywork then you know I'm not shy
about throwing the medicalsystem under the bus or pointing
out the illogical underpinningsof cut, burn and poison and how
the system often harms peopleinstead of helping them.
And, by the way, if what I justsaid feels like hyperbole and
you think I'm a crazy man.
You might check out episodenumber two, where I deconstruct
(01:08):
the history of what we have cometo call conventional medicine,
given up on them or is onlyoffering the pharmaceutical
escalation ladder or the kind ofthe body part removal service.
And it's usually right beforeor after that point that people
(01:30):
who become clients finally hitthe place of awakening where
they realize they need adifferent approach.
And in getting to know DrGisling, she had been through
her own similar awakening.
Despite her and I coming fromvery different backgrounds.
We had this instant bond oflike oh, you get it, we were
speaking the same language fromour first conversation.
So to me she sets the standardsfor what a medical doctor
(01:52):
should be or could be.
And if you're someone who feelslike you kind of have to engage
the medical system, orespecially if you feel that way
and you've become disillusionedwith it and you just crave some
perspective on how to navigateit or disentangle from it, I
think hearing from Dr Gesslingwill give you a new set of
lenses to know that really whatyou're looking for from that
profession and when to just walkaway from it because it doesn't
(02:15):
have the capacity to see you orserve you.
We also talked in this episodeabout where she fit into the
process of what I was working oncreating a program to help
people detox and heal from theCOVID injections and how her
graciousness with my incessantquestions really turned into
extended conversations and abudding collaboration between
(02:35):
her and I and other doctors andwe all just realized that we had
something to learn from eachother.
And really I guess the shortversion of that divine
appointment of meeting her, itled to a vision of a kind of a
rebirth and redefinition of theword healthcare and we've had so
much fun and found so muchmutual benefit collaborating
across these typically siloeddisciplines of the medical world
(02:56):
and the alternative world andthe health coaching world and
we've actually formed a holisticpartnership that we're calling
Healing United and we think it'ssomething the world sorely
needs.
So you get a little peek into awhole different way to find
help for your health in thisepisode.
But we also talked about herbackground in building
supplements for specificconditions and how that led to a
new supplement we announcedright here on the podcast called
(03:18):
Spike Shield.
She came to me with the idea ofbuilding our own supplement as
an upgrade to a previous productshe had created to help people
who were either injured by theCOVID injections or maybe they
were reluctantly forced to takeit and they're nervous about the
long-term effects.
So we talked about also what wehad to do to figure out a way
to create a multi-disciplineapproach to healthcare and why
(03:39):
we had to establish somethingcalled a private membership
association.
And, fun fact, we set upHealing United as a ministry,
which opens up even more ways wecan speak freely and help
people.
So anyway, this episode is Iguess it's almost the classic a
doctor and a coach logged into aZoom meeting and this is what
happened next.
So really neither of us couldhave guessed what would unfold
(04:01):
in getting to meet each other.
But welcome to a fresh visionof what healthcare could be,
welcome to a window into a newand growing network of doctors
and coaches who actually worktogether and share the same
value.
So I'll have links in the shownotes to what we're up to in
case you want to check it out.
And one last thing I'll say isstay tuned in the future for
some fascinating conversations.
We're calling Pharma FreeLiving, where we will discuss
(04:22):
specific medications and helpyou have awareness of what
they're doing in your body andhow you might wean yourself off
of them.
And, by the way, this was heridea.
Like I told you, where do youfind a medical doctor who does
that publicly?
But if you want to ensure thatyou don't miss out on those
conversations, just make sureyou are subscribed to our
mailing list.
You can opt in attruewholehumancom or you can go
(04:43):
to healingunitedtoday and opt inthere.
You can find the form to opt inon the footer of either site.
Okay, without further ado, enjoymy conversation with Dr Heather
Gessling.
All right, hello everyone.
Welcome to today's episode.
We have a unique one for youtoday, dr Gessling, and I
thought we'd do a little justhow we got here, summary kind of
(05:05):
story of what we've been up toand some of the almost like lets
you in on some of ourconversations of how we got to
do the work we do and thecollaboration that we are now a
part of.
So anyway, welcome back, drGessling.
Nice to have you with us againtoday.
Thanks for having me back tohave you with us again today.
(05:26):
Thanks for having me back.
Yeah, buddy, okay, so we met Idon't know, it's closing in on a
year ago now, something likethat where I was just introduced
to you because I was working ona project to try to do my best
as a coach with a sacred duty tohelp people heal, to make a
statement about my bestunderstanding of how to help
people heal from the COVIDinjections, and that turned into
a monstrous research projectbeyond anything I imagined
(05:49):
because of the still the thingswe don't know about what's in
them or the mechanisms of harmor long-term effects and the
breadth of adverse events peopleare experiencing.
There's just so much there, andso I got introduced to you as
someone who could help me get myhead around more of the
physiology of the spike proteinand what it was doing in the
body or how it might be able tobe neutralized or blunted or
(06:13):
help people heal from it.
And so you were just graciousenough to let me in on all that
you had studied and researchedand speed up my learning process
, which was super helpful, and Iremember our first conversation
.
I just went straight to thebottom of the rabbit hole with
you like okay, so are thesethings?
Do we agree about these?
And we just went.
(06:33):
If you guys have listened toany of our other podcasts or the
episodes I've done, you know Ilike to deconstruct, I like to
rewind history, I like to lookat how in the world did we get
here, how did they pull off thisop?
And so I just went through.
So we've got kind of an uglymalice agenda going on.
We've got weaponized medicine.
I went just through the breadthof how this whole COVID op
(06:53):
happened and you're like yep,yep, yep, just check mark all
the way through, which for mewas so comforting.
I'm like wait a minute, hang on.
And then, as I got to know youand I got to hear your
perspectives on things, not onlywere we in agreement with so
many of the elements of whathappened in world events, but
(07:14):
then philosophically which forme I have to admit, was a
gigantic pattern, interrupt.
I wasn't used to I don't know ifI've ever met a medical doctor.
I have.
I've kind of had this jadedlook at them and like, yeah,
approach everything with an MDwith skepticism, just because of
what I've learned about theprofession.
And I meet you and it's likehang on.
I didn't have a category to putyou in.
(07:36):
You think holistically.
You have you incorporatehealing modalities into your
practice.
It's not just here, I'm notjust a drug dispenser or refer
you to a specialist who canoperate on you.
You read research and you do itwith discernment and you look
for it Like there might beagendas here.
You do research to buildsupplements.
I'm like what doctor does that?
You talk about diet andlifestyle with people which, for
(07:58):
those who don't know, doctorsdon't really get any nutritional
training.
But yet you've dove into thatand you understand that.
You help people deprescribe orget off medications.
You actually have a copy of it.
I found this out not the firstconversation, but later.
You have a copy of theDrug-Induced Nutrient Depletion
Handbook in both your clinicsand refer to it and actually
help people understand whatmedications are doing in their
(08:19):
body.
You're someone who openlyquestions vaccines, not like in
the closet private conversationlike but you'll openly say
there's some stuff here thatjust doesn't make sense.
You're not afraid to talk aboutfax injury and you help people
have confidence to take agencyand, if need be, have hard
conversations with their otherdoctors or stand up for
themselves.
Who is this woman?
(08:39):
And then you, let me challengeyou.
But somehow there's this youdidn't let your education get in
the way of learning.
There's no defensiveness withyou, there's just an eagerness
to learn and a humble.
You'll spar with me, but not ina combative sense, just a iron
sharpens iron.
And the more I got to know you,the more I just became wowed by
(09:00):
who is this person and sogracious to just sit and
tolerate or help me with mytechnical questions and come to
understand other things.
So I just, I guess for I wantedthe listeners of the people who
start to see what we're up to toknow what a unicorn Dr Gessling
is, how helpful she is and howholistically she thinks and how
(09:21):
much she actually takesseriously the do no harm element
of her profession, and not onlythat.
We share values from faith andfrom family and so on.
And it just became specialreally quickly the type of
rapport and relationship we had.
So that was my take on gettingto know you and how some of the
(09:42):
just the graciousness you lend.
We'll talk about the story alittle more in a second, but
flip the script for a second forus and tell people what it was
like to find like this.
What's your perspective onfinding some obscure health
coach tucked away on theinternet somewhere?
And how in the world did webecome fast friends?
What was it about collaboratingwith me that became interesting
to you?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Well, there is so many things along the way of
your words just now that I feellike I want to touch on, I don't
want to forget each of thoseaspects and that was such a kind
summary of you know, yourimpressions about who I am, who
I am as a doctor, who I am as aperson, as a Christian, as
(10:27):
somebody who cares abouthumanity, and I feel like all of
that, all of the aspects, arereally just because the Lord has
led me down that path, path andI've been humble enough to be
(10:58):
open to what he's showing me,instead of just relying on my
training or MD or, you know,heal.
The concept of healing is was amind blowing concept to me,
because I thought I healed andthen, when I realized I didn't
heal, then I had to figure outhow I, how I had to heal my
(11:21):
patients instead of just treatthem.
The concept of nutrition inmedical school, as you mentioned
, is non-existent.
It's non-existent.
And in fact it's even belittledor you know sort of degraded as
a concept.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, it's almost like it's that's for people who
aren't smart enough to get intomedical school is kind of yeah,
I get sometimes.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Or that our food is so awesome that really nobody
needs to worry about nutrition,because, I mean, it's you know
the 21st century.
Our food is great and it's not.
Of course, it's depleted andeven the fortification of it can
be harmful to individuals,especially if you have, like, a
(12:11):
MTHFR mutation.
And so whenever I startedrealizing back in 2020, about
who was most susceptible tomorbidity or mortality from the
COVID infection, and realizingit was those with chronic
illnesses, and then realizingthose chronic illnesses were
(12:31):
tied to nutrient deficiencies,and then realized one of the
reasons why hydroxychloroquineworks is because of being able
to help bring zinc into the cell, and that zinc nutrition or
zinc deficiency was related todiabetes, all of it was just
like fireworks in my brain.
I thought I'm missing something.
I have been missing somethingfor a long time about nutrition
(13:03):
and how to fight infection orheal or reverse bit.
Back in 2021, I met Dr JanaSchmidt.
She's a really, really amazingand good friend of mine.
She's a naturopathic doctor.
I remember sitting at a tableat a conference we were at
together, her and her husband,and I told her that I was
envious of her degree, I wasenvious of her naturopathic
(13:27):
training, I was envious of herunderstanding of nutrition and
really healing modalities that Iwasn't taught in medical school
and that was a big step for mebecause, MDs have a chip on
their shoulder.
Really, I mean, they have thislike we know more, we're smarter
(13:47):
, we have it all figured out,we're the scientific ones.
And so whenever I said that toher, I remember feeling sort of
freed or humbled from my degree.
My, from my degree, like thisis this is not where it's at.
(14:09):
I mean I can use my degree tohelp people and use my knowledge
with.
We were talking about this, youand I yesterday about the
knowledge required, knowledge oflike biochemistry,
pathophysiology, anatomy, all ofthat.
I can use all of that but atthe same time, recognize that my
training of usingpharmaceuticals and medications
to treat, instead of realizingwhat's needed to heal there's
(14:32):
good aspects and bad aspects ofthat education and use the good,
use my reputation, use mydegree to help people in a trust
aspect where you know they kindof want that MD.
Some patients kind of want thatMD, kind of want that background
, but at the same time they knowthat I'm not going to be using
pharmaceuticals unnecessarilyand in fact, like you said,
(14:52):
getting patients off ofmedication, deprescribing those
medications, the complexity ofmedications and what they do to
as a harmful thing to you andnot just treating a certain
condition, but as an overallsystemic harm, is a fascinating
line of interest or attentionthat we should, we should
(15:19):
understand, which is thatpharmaceuticals harm us in
general.
Most pharmaceuticals have verydetrimental effects to the
efficiency of our cells nutrientabsorption, affecting other
body systems, and that conceptis not well discussed or
(15:40):
understood and I think it shouldbe pursued.
Discussed or understood, and Ithink it should be pursued.
I think patients shouldunderstand that taking a pill
does not only convey some sortof single benefit, but it can
also cause harm in so many otherways to their body.
(16:01):
Whenever I met you, there wassuch a appreciation of your
ability to understand health andwellness without a formal
degree or education and openingup the concept of somebody that
(16:23):
doesn't necessarily have amedical license or degree, or
even in any type of license inthe healthcare field, can do
more benefit, can help a patient, help a client or a person more
than a medical professionalthat gets.
That got me very excited,because not only were our
(16:46):
conversations deep and complexand the ability to hash out
things in order to get to thebottom of what's necessary to
heal a patient, but also yourunderstanding was extensive
enough that I trusted yourability to be a match with me in
(17:10):
in learning, researching andeducating those around us to to
make, to do good and to be ablessing.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, well, well, thank you, and that's the first
time I've heard this too, so Iappreciate you just laying out
what what stood out and thatthere's.
I guess one of the things Iappreciate so much about
spending time with you is justthe.
I guess I hope it's true thatpeople would say the mutual
humility that we both have, thatneither of us knows everything.
(17:41):
We're smarter together than weare separate.
And there's that neither of usknows everything.
We're smarter together than weare separate, and there's so
much upside to challenging eachother.
I kind of imagine this is whathealthcare could have been all
along.
This is what it's meant to be.
The scientific method issupposed to say what's your best
idea and let me see if I canpoke holes in it, and we go both
ways on that and it's helped mebe a better coach and see
(18:03):
things with more clarity and Ifeel like it goes both ways and
I think that's been some of whatwas fun.
Is that somehow your reputation, your, your practice got your
patient base, got benefit fromsome of these more holistic
concepts and zooming out and notmissing the plot or getting
down the weeds of biochemistryand realizing this person's
lonely or thirsty or needs a hugor their diet's terrible or
(18:23):
they haven't moved in a week andand all the things that are so
oh yeah, duh, there's that too,and and they're more top of mind
and um.
So I guess where we went withthat is, over time, enough of
these conversations where weboth feel like we're growing,
having this recognition that,geez, this is, this is more fun
and the collaboration is umhelpful.
(18:44):
And to your point about both ofus have a network of people you
know the naturopath that youmentioned and I've got a whole
host of friends in the, I guess,what could be broadly termed
the alternative health space orthe coaching health space and
people who have differentabilities for different types of
situations and pooling thoseresources and connecting.
And so we ended up havingconversations with three or four
(19:05):
of us or multiple people on thecalls at once and being able to
collaborate at even more depthand watch people's eyebrows
raise and light up and see thepossibilities of what could be.
And I came I don't know who hadthe idea where we came of it
first, but the idea of like,what if we formed another entity
?
What if we did something?
And so the short version ofthat story is.
We came up with a new entity wecall Healing United, which is
(19:28):
basically it's doctors andcoaches in collaboration and
doctors is expanded to be morethan just medical.
It's medical and alternativeand coaching combined.
It's almost this funthree-stranded cord that adds
such a wealth or breadth ofability to help somebody and to
say here's the angle I wouldcome at this with and how would
you help?
(19:48):
And even just to know, I've gota phone call I can make if I'm
stuck on a particular issue,what would you do?
How would you help this personreframe this mentally?
Or how would you help thisperson know what to say to their
doctor?
What other healing modalityhave we not thought of?
And to see other people whohave a specialization come
together and compare notes hasbeen so much fun.
(20:09):
I've never enjoyed my work asmuch as I have since you entered
the picture.
So anything you want to addabout the element of Healing
United and what we're up to orthings I didn't cover in that
short story there.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
I think that Healing United is a paradigm shift for
the good as far as understandingwhat it takes to to have the
scope necessary to really heal.
(20:42):
I mean, we're in such a complexstate of the world and of
medicine and of health right nowbecause of harm, because of
intentional harm done to us thatthrough the, through the
injections, through the man-madeviruses, that I don't think
(21:05):
that there's really a box thatwe can fit everything perfectly
in to get to the bottom ofthings.
And so this is the, I feel likeas good as we can get to try
and figure out how to approachour current situation, which is
(21:31):
kind of scary it's.
It's been in my practice overthe last.
I remember sitting in a in apatient, in an exam room with a
patient, in May of 2021, andhaving this epiphany, this
moment that, whoa, everything Ithought I knew on how to treat
(21:54):
patients because of thisinjection, because of the
introduction of this injectionto a patient's system,
everything I thought I knew onhow to approach things is is it
seemed worthless, like I hadthis moment where I truly felt
like what I knew was worthlessand so being able to come
(22:16):
together with with your skillsand with skills of other
healthcare professionals oralternative medicine
professionals and with the armof that you know three-legged
stool, or leg of thatthree-legged stool being a
(22:36):
medical degree.
Mainstream medical education, Ifeel like, is as complete as
we're going to get, but at thesame time having the humbleness,
like you said, to listen toeach other and not be closed off
about the concepts.
(22:57):
I mean, you and I have had some,I feel like, some really good
conversations that can sometimesget a little bit like we're
like no, I'm right, no, you'reright, no, I'm not, or we go
back and forth and but still,you know there, but, but at the
but, at the end, I think we'reboth then saying, oh wait, I now
(23:19):
see what you're saying.
It sometimes takes someintensity for those, those
thought patterns to really bedisrupted, because we, because
it for survival in our careerswe have to know what we're
(23:40):
talking about, we have to knowhow to proceed.
And so when you get challengedby some of the other thought
patterns, you have to be willingto look at it, look at it from
that angle, look at it from thatlight and say, oh, I get it now
.
Yeah, and when you do, that'swhere I feel like clarity,
(24:03):
breakthroughs, truetransformation can happen where
we can help the patient or thecustomer.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, yeah, I remember years ago I read a book
.
It was so affirming to me whenI read it.
It's called Range.
I think they may have changedthe subtitle, but the one I had
when I read it was whyGeneralists Thrive in a
Specialized World, and the titleof the book Range being able to
see with range.
One of the things that came hometo me in that was how much it
(24:33):
helps to have minds outside ofthe particular discipline.
Look at the same problem withyou, because they just bring a
completely different frame ofreference to help you see
something that to them wasobvious but that it never
occurred to you before.
And I think that's we've bothhad several of those episodes
where, like now that I can seeit through that lens, there's
something else I was missing andit's that made me just more
(24:56):
interested in expanding therange and having more opinions
and and the humility to say, orjust the welcomed gosh, what
else do I not know?
Like I want to hear somebodyelse challenge me here, Like
find a hole in this thing,rather than having that be an
assault on my intelligence, orput me in box and talk me down
and tell me that I can't thinkthat way or that I'm just wrong
(25:17):
to have somebody like yourselfor others we've talked to say
here's the perspective I bringand here's maybe something that
you hadn't thought of has been.
I guess it takes a level ofbeing difficult to offend and
being able to set your ego asideand be like okay, hang on, I
don't know everything, let mesee.
And but to to also findsomebody else who is can play
(25:40):
defense without being defensiveor can play offense without
being offensive, that is so goodstatement.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
It's been fun to be able to do that, and I found
that in you and I.
I just for humanity's sake,thank you.
It's maybe a better coach, butit's.
It helps me take concepts tosomebody who was going to bring
a skepticism to them.
And also, when I throw my bestarguments at you and you're like
, yeah, I can't poke a hole inthat, it's like, okay, good,
(26:10):
it's affirming that I might beon the right track and have
something genuinely helpful tooffer here.
So, anyway, thank you for thatand anything else to add before
I switch to another part of thestory.
No, I think, I think I'm goodon that, okay, cool.
So one of the things that washappening in your life when we
met was that you were wrappingup your time at the wellness
company or TWC, and what came tolight is that you had built
(26:33):
their supplement line.
You were the one that kind ofdid the research and figured out
what need, what formulationsseem to be the most helpful for
dealing with a spike protein inparticular, or dealing with some
of the downstream adverseevents from people who took the
COVID injection, and so thatbecame a project.
As you were leaving there, youhad the idea that you brought to
(26:54):
me.
It's like I think I could, nowthat I've done more research, I
think I could actually make abetter supplement than what was
there and they're not interestedin doing it and would you want
to make one?
And I was like what?
I've never done this before.
I have no idea what's going onand it turns out we've had to
integrate six differentcompanies into the effort to
(27:15):
source and have a simple buybutton where people can get this
.
But rewind the story a littlebit.
Tell us about where you were inthat journey, what it was like
making the first supplements andwhat ideas you had for making
the new ones or any other partsof that story you want to tell.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah, yeah, I would love to tell that.
So it was summer, spring, latespring, early summer of 2022
that me and Dr Jana Schmidt, drJen Vandewater, worked hours and
hours throughout that sorry, itgot loud throughout that summer
(27:52):
to develop the supplement line,the product line.
There was one or two that werealready formulated by some of
the other physicians that wereon the board at the time, but
the rest were really our brainchilds and our hard work and
(28:13):
research to put together that,including the spike supplement.
They have Um and so, as thingschange throughout the year of
2023, several of the of themedical board members or the
medical support um professionalsthat were part of the wellness
(28:36):
company left that company,including me, and around the
time that I was leaving, I hadwe had I had shared with them
that we could update thatformula and they weren't really
interested.
So it was a perfect time andopportunity to to do that on our
(28:57):
own.
I think that that was ablessing to be able to say, oh
well, let's just get this doneon our own.
I think that that was ablessing to be able to say, oh
well, let's just get this doneon our own.
Like you said, it hasn't been.
It's not taking.
That step was not absolutelysimple and we're still finished
putting the finishing touches onthat, but excited to bring that
formula, that low cost, thatsimplicity, to our customers and
(29:20):
patients.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yeah Well, tell them a little bit about what makes
that product so special.
So the product's called SpikeShield and you ended up
narrowing it down to six keyingredients.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat's in it and what makes it
so potent.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Yeah.
So the two I feel like the twomost important components of the
formula are the proteolyticenzymes, first one being
natokinase.
And proteolytic enzyme means anenzyme that breaks down protein
.
Lytic means to break somethingdown, lysate, and so proteolytic
(29:57):
enzymes can break down proteins, and so proteolytic enzymes can
(30:21):
break down proteins.
What we know is that spikeprotein although I know we don't
have to get you know to a pointwhere we say with absolute
certainty that somebody ismaking spike protein in their
body or that the vaccine encodesfor spike protein what we know
is that there are inflammatoryproteins being produced in
patients post-vax, potentiallylong-haul COVID or post-COVID
and they're creating and it'scausing problems.
It's causing inflammatoryproblems in the vasculature,
(30:44):
it's causing clots, clots thatare not necessarily just fibrin
clots but also theseproteinaceous amyloid type clots
.
We have in vitro preclinicalresearch that shows that natto
kinase can break down spikeprotein, which is most likely
(31:06):
indefinitely being made bypatients that have had that
injection, that mRNA or even DNAinjection.
And so we want to be able tobreak down that spike protein
because it's pathologic.
Pathologic means not good.
It's bad for your body,creating that inflammation
leading to clots, leading toreally your body rejecting those
(31:30):
cells that are producing spikeand creating autoimmune
conditions.
So if spike can be broken downwhich we have a couple of
studies that show that it can bebroken down, by natokinase In
particular, there's some otherproteolytic enzymes that will
probably do the same,potentially lumbrokinase or some
(31:51):
others, but also bromelain,which we put in that formula.
There's research that showsthat bromelain can have that
impact as well.
There is also research thatshows that dandelion root can
help block spike from attachingto the ACE receptors.
(32:11):
So we added dandelion root tothat and I feel like that.
That's a overall verybeneficial supplement for many
reasons.
When we develop this supplement,when I develop this new
supplement, the concept is thatwith every piece of information
(32:34):
that we currently have, thissupplement can help.
This supplement can help.
But even if somehow we find outoh, maybe somebody's not making
that protein indefinitely ormaybe something else is going on
what we, what the attempt was,was to make it beneficial and
(32:55):
broad enough that it can, it canstill attack all of the bad
things that are happeningpost-vax really, almost no
matter what route that they'rehappening, and that was.
I mean, it's kind of magical inthat way, and so one of the
(33:17):
other things that is beneficialin the supplement is black cumin
seed, which has a potentanti-inflammatory effect along
with curcumin, and so we knowpatients are inflamed and so we
have that in there.
Black pepper can potentiate theeffects of the curcumin and it
(33:40):
also can be beneficial, so wehave that.
So the point being whether,whether or not we have every
single thing perfect, which isone of the one of the time
consuming processes that you andI have gone through to try and
get it as right as we can, basedoff of the information that's
out there.
(34:00):
No matter what, this supplementcan be beneficial for those
who've taken the vaccine, forthose who are worried about
shedding and exposure to thevaccine, for those who have long
haul COVID symptoms, for thosewho have current COVID symptoms,
for those who have currentviral symptoms.
(34:21):
All of those ingredients, thoseherbs, can help, or proteolytic
enzymes can help.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Yeah, fantastic, and that's really what was fun about
just watching you.
Here's another research studyand come up with how would we
create this?
And what I do as a coach is Ihave to step back and look at
how do I support the body?
I can't treat anything, I don'tprescribe things, I just say
what does the body need in orderto function optimally and what
(34:49):
things are gunking up the engineand getting in the way and
keeping it from being able toheal, and we kind of just
checked those boxes as we wentthrough that process of it can
do all of those.
And so you mentioned peoplewho've taken the shot, people
who have experienced, whohaven't taken it, but maybe
they've experienced symptoms bybeing around.
Those who have.
What we now know is somethingthat's called shedding, which
the FDA lists as a side effectof all other gene therapies.
(35:12):
So some of them are Luxturna,roctavian and Zolgensma.
All have shedding on the listof things that are side effects
from them.
And if you're somebody who'sexperienced something like that
I didn't take it, somebody elsedid.
Now I have symptoms this wouldbe something that could help in
that instance.
And then we also thought, okay,if there are other mRNA products
that end up creatingpathologies or pathologic
(35:34):
proteins or give the body aninflammatory burden.
If there's other products likethat that go mainstream, whether
it's food I don't know how manypeople know how thorough they
are in trying to get mrna intoeverything's food, air, water.
I read something yesterdaythey're trying to vaccinate
trees now to help the cocoaplant survive.
(35:55):
It's like.
Whatever the problem is insociety, the answer is a vaccine
.
It's just this weird.
You know, hell-b bent on makingsure we use mRNA for everything
.
So, depending on what they rollout, this would be a way to
help them, kind of no matterwhat that is, but in a more
targeted way, the best shot wehave to know this would be
something that a lot ofdifferent boxes or a lot of
(36:18):
different uses would beavailable for.
So anything else I missed inthat summary there.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
No, I mean, that's really what we were thinking of,
you know, to try and make it asbroad as possible in order to
be as helpful as possible and asfoundational with the
ingredients you know, so thatthe body could use it to route
it in any way it needs.
And that's what we want, andthat's the foundation of our
(36:45):
detox.
You is to figure out the basics.
I mean, we, we, we can talkabout that and explain that more
, but the basics is to developthe foundation, whether or not
it's through some basic herbalsupplements or basic nutrition,
basic modalities to help thebody heal, and so I feel like
(37:07):
that our Spike Shield product isreally a good representative of
our philosophy.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Yeah, yeah, it really is.
Is there any reason in yourmind that someone wouldn't take
it Like?
What are some indications whereit would be maybe
contraindicated?
Are there any?
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Yeah, there are.
Actually, I would say, ifsomebody has a propensity for
bleeding, if they're already onthree or if they're already on
anticoagulants some patients areeven on triple therapy If they
haveots that are really stubbornor have had recurrent
(37:42):
cardiovascular issues despitebeing on anticoagulation, with
thrombus or clots, this isprobably not a great idea.
It could be.
I mean, I know that therehasn't been any evidence of
increased bleeding from thesesupplements.
Necessarily, natokinase, as Imentioned earlier, is a
(38:05):
proteolytic enzyme.
One of the things that canbreak down is spike, through
research that we have.
But another thing that it canbreak down that we've known for
years and one of the reasons whywe put it in our original
formula, is that it breaks downfibrin, and fibrin is what
contributes to clot formation.
Fibrin aggregation is whatcontributes to clot formation.
(38:26):
Now I think that fibrinaggregation in those that have
had the vaccine can bepotentially just one of the
first steps.
But then I think that there isthis protein component of
developing these long tails,these amyloid type protein clots
, which also there's researchthat shows that natokinase can
(38:49):
break down amyloid and that'slisted in our aggregation of
research.
But so I would say, if you havea propensity to bleeding.
Not a good idea.
I wouldn't take it if you'repregnant.
I wouldn't take it if you havean allergy to soy.
Technically, natokinase issupposed to be soy free, but we
(39:14):
do have anecdotal stories ofpatients who have soy allergies
and they take it and they stillhave.
They know that they're havingan allergic reaction.
Um, there may be some otherthings that I'm forgetting, um,
but I would you're, you'rewelcome.
I would advise that you'reprobably going to need to talk
(39:35):
to your healthcare professionalor doctor before you start it.
Good luck.
If they're going to know whatthose things are, though, and
they're're going to and they'reprobably going to just tell you
don't take it because they don'tknow.
I mean, I have patients thatthe stories that I get, when
patients come in and tell me,when they tell them what
vitamins that tell us best forus, what vitamins they're taking
(39:57):
, very frequently thatspecialist will just say stop
taking those.
They won't even look to seewhat they are or what, what
their mechanism of action is orhow they can benefit the patient
.
They just say stop taking them.
And then the patient comes backto me and I'm like, yeah, they
don't even know what they'redoing.
They don't even know what thosethings are doing.
(40:18):
So you know you can.
I were supposed to say you haveto talk to your healthcare
professional, and the reason whyI'm going to say that is
because maybe you do have acontraindication and maybe your
physician would know thatnatokinase can break down fibrin
and it may not be so good foryou.
Any of the other componentsthat are in there.
Bromelain is just anotherdigestive enzyme, proteolytic
(40:39):
enzyme.
It doesn't have as much potenteffect against fibrin as far as
I know, and then dandelion rootand bromelain, cumin seed, black
pepper.
I don't think there's reallymuch contraindication to those
other than if you have a knownallergy.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yeah, yep, and so just there you have the caveats
or the reason behind.
Talk to some other, get otheropinions to weigh in on this,
but at the end of the day, Ithink we're both big proponents
of you having agency and makingyour own choices, and we're
giving you the best informationwe have.
And so you are really.
You take all this informationat your own risk, but you don't
be shy to exercise your ownoption to choose what you put in
(41:16):
your body, and if you feel likethe advice you're being given
from anywhere feels off, thenjust go with that.
There's something about yourgut instinct that it's either
asking you to learn or it'stelling you, for a good reason,
to stay away from something.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
So, yeah, we want to touch on that too, because
really that's a growth thatpatients need.
That's a part of themselves thatpatients need to build up and
exercise and grow, which is theagency and autonomy, because if
they don't feel like they havethat, then they're not going to
be making decisions for theright reasons, they're going to
be taking potentially bad advice, they're going to be doing
(41:51):
things that go against their guton what's good for them.
They have to feel free to beable to do what is best for them
despite a specialist pushingthat or their primary pushing
something.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Yeah, and one thing I love about you and I do
frequently in my own work isjust giving people confidence
and language and rationale fortheir perspective and being able
to stand in the fire a littlebit and realize you're okay with
it.
Like I can entertain a doctor'sperspective and that doesn't
mean I have to accept it, Idon't dismiss it, but it doesn't
(42:24):
.
If you get a doctor that makesyou feel small or talks down at
you or things like that, that'stypically where I'm more on like
we might want to find adifferent doctor.
You shouldn't be made to feelbelittled or ridiculed for
having a fair question when yougo to talk to a doctor.
So yeah, and I know that peopledon't get that from you- no,
they don't get it from me.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
But you know, I mean they may have gotten that from
me years ago, you know, justbecause I had such confidence in
my views before I really,really questioned my views.
And also, we were taught inmedical school different
approaches to being a doctor.
We were even we were taughtsort of the different approaches
through the decades of how MDsapproach their patients and, you
(43:08):
know, including like apaternalistic view where you
basically you decide what's bestfor them and you control the
data and you control theinformation, the flow of
information to them.
Maybe they you think they can'thandle all the information, so
you don't tell them all theinformation.
I mean all of these views werediscussed and taught not
necessarily as right, butdiscussed in medical school, as
(43:29):
when you are a MD, you can holdthe cards.
You sort of hold control whichis not right.
I mean that that's really thatconcept is wrong.
It should be a partnership andI really, as an MD, have always
sort of held that view that mytreatment of the patient or
(43:52):
interaction with the patientshould be a partnership.
We should discuss all thefactors, we should discuss all
the information, we shoulddiscuss all the possibilities
and then come together and makethat decision based off of what
they feel comfortable with,maybe what they're financially
able to do.
Also, you know that a lot oftimes isn't taken into account
or what they feel like is a goodnext step for them, dependent
(44:19):
on all of the environmentalfactors or situational factors
or whatever's going on in theirlife at the time.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Well, I think I had never heard of it till you just
said or thought of it, but it'salmost like you had this grab
bag persuasion course that youwere kind of given subtly
through the medical training ofhere's how to handle the
objections or here's how tomaintain your air of the
authority in this arena andalmost keep the patient from
(44:47):
having that sense of like a peerrelationship where you're both
trying to solve the same puzzleand bringing your perspectives
to it.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Yeah, yeah.
And that concept of authorityis what has become so damaging
to people in almost any area oftheir life concept, concept of
authority within medicine,concept of, really, I think, a
wrong concept of authoritywithin religion and churches, a
wrong concept of authoritywithin relationships.
I think you have to haveautonomy and agency of your own
(45:18):
self to be healthy, notdysfunctional, not feel
controlled, and make gooddecisions.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Yeah, and now you guys know more about why I like
her so much.
It's amazing to meet somebodyrefreshingly interested in
people as you are.
So all right, well, two otherthings we'll touch on before we
wrap up here.
So you had hinted at that wehave a course called Detox you,
and so it really is meant to bepaired with, or be a complement
to, the Spike Shield supplementwe talked about.
(45:47):
There's so much more to healingthan what people can swallow,
and we wanna make sure we alwaysbring that to light and that we
don't get stuck in thereductionist little tiny sliver,
these parallel trenches ofeverything has a biochemical
solution and we can just playbiochemical whack-a-mole and
somebody will get well, itreally is about the whole person
and what's going on in theirlife and the habits they do or
(46:07):
don't have, and the recognitionthat we cannot cheat the
biological laws of physics.
And when we don't have thebasics down water and air and
food and exercise and stressmanagement and sleep if we're
not doubling down on those, it'sprobably not going to matter
what we swallow.
If you're a dehydrated,constipated, pessimistic couch
(46:29):
potato, it's probably not goingto make much difference what
pill you take.
And so, recognizing thatthere's so much more to the
healing puzzle and that, at theend of the day, heather and I
are not healers.
Actually we're just teachers.
We help collaborate and thinkwith you and the body's doing
the work healing and our job isto just steward what we know and
help you find the rightquestions so you can come up
with the right answers for yourown health.
And so that course detox you is.
(46:50):
It's a two day course that weput together.
It's just a free gift to say weare here to be helpful, and if
you have learned everything youneed to know from us, you have
our blessing.
And if you're interested inmore help, we can talk about
that too.
So it's really figuring outthat one.
We want it to be able tocollaborate.
We want it to be able to builda supplement that we could talk
about, because there's otherthings the FDA is really
(47:11):
particular about what you canand can't say, and you better
not say the wrong thing, becausewe own the rights to the words
cure, treat, prevent, mitigate,ameliorate, so on.
And then you so the linguistichandcuffs they put you in, and
then the realization that wewant to be able to to put on
different hats.
We want to put on the, thecoach hat, the doctor hat, the
alternative hat.
We want to.
I want to be able to put on mypastor hat.
(47:32):
I want to be able to put on myother skill sets as a life coach
and as a project management andto help people with emotional
and relational skills.
And how in the world do wepackage that?
And it became we had to stepback and say what kind of
organization can you possiblyform in order to be able to do
that for people?
And where we ended up with wasa private membership association
(47:55):
which really kind of to be ableto say we're going to take this
stuff off the record and we'regoing to have private meetings
and we're going to do this asmembers and be able to just
speak freely and help you likewe would a friend or family
member.
So tell people a little bitabout what a PMA is or how.
We kind of came to thatconclusion at any color of
something I might've missed.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Yeah, I'm going to speak first to your how we would
speak to a friend or familymember, which I think is so
important, because how we speakto a friend or family member is
out of love and that's how Ispeak to my patients, and I
think that's how you speak toyour clients, and I feel like
(48:35):
this project is a work of love,to be able to utilize the
talents and skills that the Lordhas given us to help with
healing.
The PMA concept is, I feel, likea component that allows us a
little bit more freedom, youknow, a little bit outside of
the constraints of someperceived rules, regulations,
(49:03):
whatever within our within, likemy medical society, or whatever
where we feel limited.
Pma allows for more freedom ofdecision-making, thought and you
know, different things that wewant to pursue, and I feel like
it also is a concept of a group,a unified group that is a body
(49:30):
of people that all have the samemission or goal that we want to
pursue, which I think also ishealing in itself, and so
whenever we have this group ofpeople that want to pursue
healing and we don't haveconstraints, then the sky's the
(49:53):
limit.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
Yeah, it's what it really is is what healthcare
could have been, or what some ofus never knew we were always
looking for.
It's that like, oh, this is,yeah.
I can just be honest here.
I nobody's like.
Welcome to a room full ofpeople who don't have an ego,
welcome to a room full of peoplewho are trying to help and are
open to other ideas, and forthose minds to get together and
(50:14):
say here's how we'd helphumanity heal.
And yeah, we're.
We have basic criteria ofvalues that we have.
We, we have basic criteria ofvalues that we have.
We don't just bring anybodyonto our team, but we have such
a new windfall of excitement andhope and perspective on.
Wow.
This could be a statement of agame changer way to approach
(50:35):
health for so many people andjust ground them in the first
principles of health, groundthem in the principles of
healing and community and inrecognizing there's so much more
to their whole humanness.
You're not just.
We don't reduce you to a labtest or a math equation or a
printout that we can then tinkerwith.
You're complex, like all of us,and it's okay that there are
(50:56):
other things to figure outbefore you even get to the point
where a supplement can finallymake the difference.
Sometimes there are majorthings about life that just a
question or two can illuminate,where you say, wow, I just had a
breakthrough in my thinking andnow that I've had that, I can
see a believable, hopeful pathto the life I've been wanting
anyway.
Speaker 2 (51:17):
So anyway, that's A breakthrough in thinking, I
think is crucial, because if youdon't have breakthroughs in
thinking, then you're going tohave difficulty in changing
habits and doing what's good foryou, and habits have such an
impact on our health.
And so, yeah, I think that thatconcept is that's a concept
that I do explore with most ofmy patients too is, you know,
(51:40):
getting to the bottom of theirdecision-making and their habits
.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
Yeah, which, find me any of you listening, find me
another MD who does that.
I challenge you.
It's just not many, but it isso important and until you can.
You know, essentially I'mpicturing you in the office
setting your prescription pad onthe table and just looking at
the person in the eye and andkind of just having a heart like
that's what medicine is for thefamily doctor.
You know that we remember fromlittle house on the prairie days
(52:06):
, that's, yeah, that's that'show medicine was, because I see
the family, I see what you'retrying to accomplish, I see the
struggles you have and I realizethat food is scarce or water's
not great, whatever you just yousee the whole person in front
of you and, um, so we'll seewhere this goes.
It's been a fun ride for both ofus.
We have no idea all theupcoming twists and turns or
(52:29):
divine appointments that are inour future, but it's a fun way
to think about spending our daysand doing work that we know
contributes to humanity and canbe a balm for so many really
strongly felt needs.
So, heather, thanks for takingthe time again today.
It's a privilege to be able tocall you Heather, not just Dr
Gessling, I consider you afriend and love spending time
with you.
Same here, cool.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
All right?
Speaker 1 (52:51):
Well, thanks for listening to you guys.
We stay tuned.
You can check us out on theinternet at healingunitedtoday
and learn more about all thedifferent things we're up to,
and we will keep rolling out newthings and letting you in on
some fun collaborations that wehave upcoming in.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.