Sally Fallon Morrell - Timeless Nutrition Wisdom and the Fight for Food Freedom - Deconstructing Conventional

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone.
Welcome to episode 37.
This is the sixth episode in mySovereignty series and my guest
today is one of my favoritepeople in the world.
Besides her just being amazingand someone I want to adopt as a
family member, I say she's oneof my favorite people because I
don't know where I'd be withouther influence.
I can attribute the health myfamily and I enjoy in large part

(00:21):
to my guest, the lovely SallyFallon Morrell.
There is so much I could sayabout this wonderful woman.
She has been a tireless warriorand role model for me about
what it means to fight for whatyou believe in and have staying
power while you do it.
So I have a soft spot for Sallybecause she has modeled to me
what it means to keep working tosolve the next problem and the
next problem and so on, untilyou really start to make a

(00:44):
difference against a majorinjustice you see in society.
For me, that injustice has beenwatching people unnecessarily
live with poor health.
Following her example, I justkept iterating and iterating
over the years to find solutionsto the very real problems that
come up with clients as theywork to reverse disease or stop
pain or lose weight or healtheir past and so on, and Sally

(01:04):
has done that in the vast worldof nutrition, from teaching what
real nutrition is to starting afoundation, to hosting
conferences, to supportingfarmers and engaging in activism
.
Sally has been relentless atmaking a difference, both in the
US and internationally, athelping people get access to
real food, and I shudder tothink what kinds of foods the

(01:26):
population of the US would beeating if it were not for the
work of Sally Fallon Murrell.
This next point I have to make.
I don't usually throw anyoneunder the bus in my episode
introductions but in case youmissed it, after I recorded this
interview with Sally, mattWalsh got way out over his skis
recently and made a totallyuninformed comment about raw
milk.
When I read it I thoughtfinally there's a debate Matt

(01:48):
Walsh would lose easily.
He is a smart guy and he has noidea what he's talking about
when it comes to milk.
He made the following post on Xhe said raw milk is disgusting,
which I would take to mean he'snever tasted it, because it
pretty much tastes like meltedice cream.
But Matt dug the hole deeperand went on to say this we live
in a first world, civilizedsociety and people are actively

(02:10):
choosing to consume milk riddledwith E coli and listeria.
Pasteurization is not some evilsorcery, it just kills the
dangerous bacteria.
You morons, yikes.
Those are some feisty wordsfrom somebody who usually does
his homework.
So, matt, I admire much aboutyou, but you totally missed the
boat on this one.
If you actually want to havethat debate, I can point you to

(02:33):
no one better than Sally FallonMorrell.
She will run circles around youand it would be a mark of true
integrity and humility to man upand ask her for that debate.
I can promise you she's tookind to call you a moron after
she puts your ignorance ondisplay.
So if your ego isn't too big ortoo fragile, I'd sincerely
encourage you to reach out toher and have that discussion.
If you want an introduction,you can reach out to me,

(02:55):
christian, at truewholehumancom,and I'll make an introduction
for you.
For context, sally has decadesnot just studying, writing and
teaching about nutrition, butshe's the only person I'd
confidently call a nutritionhistorian.
She probably knows more abouthistorical diets than any living
person today.
You can check out herwell-researched tomes at New

(03:15):
Trends Publishing, with titlesincluding Nourishing Traditions,
the Cookbook that Challengesthe Diet Dictocrats and
Politically Correct Nutrition,nourishing Diets, how Paleo,
ancestral and TraditionalPeoples Really Ate.
She also wrote Nourishing Fats,nourishing Broths, nourishing
Traditional Diets the Key toVibrant Health, the Nourishing

(03:36):
Traditions Book of Baby andChild Care, and she co-wrote Eat
Fat, lose Fat.
And that's not all she'swritten.
So, matt, it would be greathaving you on Team Reality when
it comes to food, but in themeantime, try not to undermine
yourself with uninformedcomments about milk.
Okay, with that said, here isone of my favorite episodes to
date with the living legendSally Fallon Murrell.
All right, welcome everyone totoday's show.
It is my deep honor to welcomeSally Fallon Murrell.

(04:00):
For those of you who don't know, sally is the founding
president of the Weston A PriceFoundation and the editor of the
foundation's quarterly magazine.
To give some context for howsignificant the foundation is,
it has over 15,000 members andover 400 chapters worldwide.
So Sally is also a prolificauthor, but probably most known
for her best-selling cookbook,nourishing Traditions, with the

(04:23):
cheeky subtitle, the Cookbookthat Challenges Politically
Correct Nutrition and the DietDictocrats.
And, personal note, I can saymy wife and I have been using
that cookbook for a long time.
It is a tattered tome in ourfamily.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
I love to see the tattered pages.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, it's got food stains on it.
It's the back cover's missing.
If it were a velveteen rabbit,it would probably be alive by
now.
It's really just a treasure inour family and largely
responsible for the kind of theabundant health that my family
enjoys to this day.
So you really freed us from theclutches of the food guide
pyramid and helped us findbedrock in a very confusing
world of nutrition.
So thank you for that.

(04:59):
So a few other things I'llmention about Sally.
Some of the culinary ideas thatshe introduced in nourishing
traditions have stimulated thegrowth of a variety of small
businesses, and so some of thefoods you may be familiar with,
like the nourishing foods, suchas lacto-fermented condiments
and soft drinks, includingkombucha.
She also popularized bone broth, animal fats, organ meats,

(05:19):
genuine sourdough bread and realmilk, which in other words is
called raw milk.
Just to give you one example ofhow impactful Sally's work has
been, she founded the campaignfor real milk in 1998, which you
can find at real milkcom, andthe website listed only 28
sources of raw milk in theUnited States back in 98.
Today there are over 2000.

(05:41):
As far as I understand there'sthree there's now 3000 different
and hundreds more probably thatare not listed, so 3,000 places
you can get raw milk now and,despite the challenges in the
dairy industry, raw milk is thefastest growing agricultural
product in the US.
Sally has also beeninstrumental in establishing the
Farm-to-Consumer Legal DefenseFund, which is a big reason why

(06:02):
there's a flourishing network ofdirect farm-to-consumer buying
arrangements, which we haveparticipated in for years and
are so grateful for.
In 2009, Sally and her husband,Jeffrey started their own
regenerative farm and, just tomake her more amazing, she
speaks English, French andSpanish.
Of course she does, and she's amother of four, has four
beautiful grandkids and Sally.
I need to catch my breath afterreading all of that, because I

(06:23):
guess I want to say from theheart thank you so much for what
you've done for the real foodmovement.
And from everyone who doesn'thave the chance to say thank you
in person, I just want to saythank you on behalf of us and if
I had a Lifetime AchievementAward to give out, I'd give it
to you.
I wouldn't hesitate.
You have done so much for meand my family, so it's an honor
to have you for coming on theshow.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
You know there's a lot that's wrong, a lot that
still needs fixing, but even atour local grocery store now we
can get pastured eggs, pasturedbutter and pastured meat.
Yeah, this is a rural grocerystore, it's nothing special, but
it's there.
And you know, people are wakingup.
Slowly, but people are wakingup.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
Yeah Well, and you've been a tireless warrior for
decades on it, which we'll kindof get into as we go.
But and I probably need 10hours to scratch the surface of
every topic I like to cover withyou, but we'll get to your
insights on nutrition are soprofound.
But before we get there, I justwant to back up and, for those
people who don't know you ordon't know your story, just tell
us a little bit about yourselfand your family.
When did you start comingacross the work of Dr Price and

(07:25):
what got you interested in thisworld to begin with?

Speaker 2 (07:27):
Well, I think I was very lucky to be born into a
family, I would say my parentswere the original foodies.
They were really interested infood.
They traveled a lot and mymother was a wonderful cook, and
when they came home from a tripshe would make the foods that
they'd eaten.
You know, we ate cassoulet andwe ate prosciutto, and she

(07:48):
always used butter, and so weate real food.
We grew up eating real food.
Now there were some things thatwere missing.
We were not drinking raw milk,we were not getting cod liver
oil or not really getting organmeats or fermented foods.
Nevertheless, it was a good,solid, healthy diet of real food

(08:08):
.
And I like to cook.
Just I like my parents cooked.
I like to cook, and I cookedFrench food with lots of butter
and cream, and I loved rich food.
And in 1974, I read Dr Price'sbook and realized that the way I
was cooking was basically howthese healthy people ate.

(08:29):
And so I didn't flinch in theteeth of all this propaganda
about low-fat diets, andactually I was really concerned
about the push to put childrenon low-fat diets.
I just knew this wouldn't workfor children.
The children need rich,satisfying food.

(08:52):
So then I got this crazy ideato write a cookbook that put
these traditional foods intopractical form for Americans,
and I'd never written a bookbefore.
I didn't know what I was doing.
My kids made fun of me.
I mean, they tease me.
They tease me.
Mom's writing a book, you know.

(09:16):
But the book took off much toeverybody's surprise, especially
my children's surprise.
And then Mary Enig and Idecided that we needed an
organization to keep up with thescience, to continue to educate
people in as many ways aspossible.
So we founded the Weston APrice Foundation, and the rest

(09:37):
is history.
It's just people have oftensaid to me you know you've
created a monster and that's anice monster, but there's no, I
just there's no way to get outnow.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
You know my calling yeah, well, and it's certainly.
You've not shirked it, you'veleaned into it.
So when you set it up, did youhave any idea?

Speaker 2 (09:57):
I love the work I'm doing and I have lots of
wonderful, talented, smart help,um.
But like you that I couldn't doanything without all these
wonderful people who support meand work for the foundation our
chapter leaders 400 chapterleaders I mean these are the
greatest people.
So it's been a lot of fun.

(10:18):
I couldn't do it if it weren'tfun and challenging stodgy old
academics and challenging thestatus quo.
This is fun.
Yes, that's I highly recommendit as a daily activity.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
Right?
Well, that's what this podcastis about.
That's what I'm about as aperson.
So we are peas in the same podhere.
So, okay, one of the things Ilove about the Weston A Price
Foundation is just how muchbreadth and depth you guys have.
So your topics you guys coverare food.
Well, one of the things I loveabout the Weston A Price
Foundation is just how muchbreadth and depth you guys have.
So your topics you guys coverare food, farming and the
healing arts, and then you havea three-part mission of research

(10:53):
, education and activism, whichjust gives you such a broad
purview and, to your point, youhave to have a team to pull it
off.
But tell us a little bit abouthow the foundation came to that
mission and how it plays out inthe day-to-day operation.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Well, we just worked on our mission statement.
I don't really know where thatphrase food farming and the
healing arts came about, but itperfectly describes what we do.
We're number one about food,and of course, good food has to
come from the right kind offarming.
And why are people searchingfor the right foods?

(11:25):
Because they're having healthchallenges, and so that's where
the healing arts come in.
Okay, and then it's education,research and activism, and
education is number one.
But we do do some research.
Over the years we've done somevery interesting projects, and
then the activism mostly hasbeen focused on the raw milk

(11:47):
issues, because this is a stateby state project, it's not a
federal government project.
So when we get a chance tolobby for and I won't say lobby,
we're not supposed to lobby,but educate about the benefits
of raw milk in a legislature, wealways have people to do that.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
Well, and I noticed your newsletters have local to
the subscriber where there arerelative or the relevant data as
far as, like the prime act ordifferent legislation that's
attempting to be passed or notpassed to protect local farms or
put them in handcuffs.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, we do look at federal issues and one of the
big problems today withexpanding the grass-fed farming
movement, for which there's atremendous demand, is that the
lack of abattoirs, the lack ofbutchers where you can get your
pigs and your cows butchered andcut up so you can sell it.

(12:46):
And the USDA has been closingor making it very difficult for
small local abattoirs tocontinue and, like down here in
Southern Maryland, we have todrive three hours to have our
pigs butchered and we have noplace to get beef butchered.
We'd like to get beef but wecan't, so this has really got to

(13:09):
be addressed.
That's kind of the next bigchallenge, I think.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
Yeah, well, and I'm confident the foundation has the
people and the organizingcapabilities to work on that.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
Oh, yes, we are.
We've been working with ThomasMassey, who will be the keynote
speaker at our conference, andhe's a wonderful congressman
who's worked on this his wholetime.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah, no, he's a great pillar of needed advocacy
for so many good things.
So, yes, right on.
Ok, well, let's.
Let's start with this.
I'll go.
Research, education, activismWe'll kind of go in that order.
I want to pick your brain abouta few topics related to each of
those.
So obviously there's so many inthe research lane, but we'll
hit a couple of high points onfat and protein, because you may

(13:54):
know, in my opinion, more aboutthat than anyone alive.
So one of the things youmentioned when we were
dialoguing before this interviewwas there's currently a big
brew ha ha going on related tovitamin A.
So a couple of things, give usyour thoughts on the vitamin A,
but if you would kind of zoomout one frame and just put
vitamin A in the context of thefour fat soluble vitamins and

(14:15):
where they're found, why they'reimportant, and we'll, address
vitamin A specifically.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
Right of Dr Price was that the diets of healthy,
traditional people were veryhigh in the vitamins that you
find exclusively in animal fatsand organ meats and shellfish is
another place you get them.
So these are vitamins A, d andK.
The fourth one is vitamin E,which is in plant foods also, so

(14:40):
we don't spend a lot of time onthat.
But the first three A, d and Kthey're in the very foods that
we're being told not to eat.
So this is real fun tochallenge these people.
And they're going to be higherif the animals are pasture, fed
out in the sunlight.
So this is why we advocatepasture-based farming and the

(15:04):
real challenge is to get enoughof these vitamins in the diet,
in the modern diet.
Not easy.
You really have to do make aconscious effort yeah yeah.
So, um, it's very interestingabout vitamin a because vitamin
a is, to me, it's thefoundational vitamin.
Nothing else can happen in yourbody without vitamin A.

(15:27):
It's the regulator of stemcells, it's the regulator of
hormone production, it regulatesfetal development in babies.
You need it for growth, forhealthy eyes, healthy bones, I
mean it's just a fundamentalvitamin.
Growth for healthy eyes,healthy bones.

(15:48):
I mean it's just a fundamentalvitamin.
And for this reason there hasbeen a kind of campaign against
vitamin A and indeed studieshave shown that if you're
getting a lot of vitamin A fromprocessed food, so this would be
synthetic vitamin A that isassociated with osteoporosis
because it competes with vitaminD.

(16:08):
If you're getting too muchvitamin A, it depletes vitamin D
and that's fine.
But we don't advocate processedfood.
We advocate real vitamin A fromthings like liver, and no study
has shown that vitamin A fromliver is harmful.
From things like liver and nostudy has shown that vitamin A
from liver is harmful.

(16:28):
So we have been at theforefront of promoting the use
of high vitamin A foods andgetting them back in the diet.
Cod liver oil is one.
We're big cod liver oil fans.
But I stumbled across adiscussion the other day and I
had no idea this was going on.
There is an author and awebsite who is saying that

(16:49):
vitamin A is poisonous.
It's not even a vitamin, it's atoxin, and he recommends a diet
without any vitamin A or anycarotenes.
Oh man, it's going to be reallyhard, and so I just was very
surprised to find this, becausewe have been working so hard to
vindicate vitamin A, and I don'tcare what he says.

(17:11):
You do need vitamin A.
It is a vitamin, and you needit from the animal foods, not
from the carotenes.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
I know okay.
Well, you mentioned cod liveroil specifically, and I know
vitamin A and even D aresomething you can get from.
So tell us people.
Tell people why you're such abig fan of it.
I know there's been somecontroversy around cod liver oil
.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
Oh, there has been.
Tell us a little bit about that.
Nothing is simple in the fieldof nutrition.
So Dr Price used cod liver oilin treating patients treating
tooth decay.
He had an experiment where hebrought a nourishing lunch to

(17:53):
school children who had a lot oftooth decay and a lot of health
problems and part of that lunchwas cod liver oil.
And they did very well.
They got better grades, theirtooth decay subsided, and so
forth.
So cod liver oil was arecommended supplement by the
medical profession up to theSecond World War, and pretty

(18:16):
much every American born beforethe Second World War got cod
liver oil.
You got it in school, yourparents gave it to you, you got
it in Sunday school because they, for one thing, that's what
they had to protect childrenagainst things like measles.
But they also recognized thatcod liver oil was very important
for growth and development.

(18:38):
And that all stopped after theSecond World War.
Antibiotics took the place ofcod liver oil.
So, um, we've kind of broughtcod liver oil back.
But there's a couple of caveatsthough.
Um, today most cod liver oil ismanufactured by molecular

(18:58):
distillation.
This is a very harsh, uhtemperature intensive process.
It's heated several times andthat kills the natural vitamins
and they have to put syntheticback in.
So there's only four brandsthat we know of that are not
heated, that are extracted inother ways, and these are the
ones we recommend and we listthem on our website.

(19:19):
The other caveat about codliver oil was Dr Price always
gave cod liver oil, which is asource of A and D, with what he
called high vitamin butter oil,which is a source of vitamin K2.
And you need all three of thesetogether.
So this is why we really warnagainst taking supplements.

(19:41):
Okay, you know we have peopleout there taking 10,000 units of
vitamin D a day.
This will deplete you of A andK2 very rapidly, because you
need all three together.
And now they give you vitamin Dand vitamin K together and
that's going to deplete you ofvitamin A real fast.
Yeah, get these vitamins fromfood.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah, yeah, get these vitamins from food.
Yeah, yeah, and I've made thatpoint, and you are one of the
few people I know who actuallykind of talks about the idea
that nutrients need each otherin order to work.
And we have this reductionistlook at vitamins.
Like, stand back everyone.
Vitamin D is here andeverything will be fine and
there's no maverick nutrientthat is by itself.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
They're dangerous by themselves.
A perfect example is iron, andwe're putting iron in everything
and we're giving ironsupplements to pregnant women
and this iron is very toxic andthat will deplete you of copper
and vitamin A and so forth.
Now you need vitamin A toabsorb iron.
You don't need much iron inyour diet if you've got plenty

(20:44):
of vitamin A.
So yeah, it's just a mess.
Just a mess.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Right, well, take a minute or two and kind of for
people who are waking up to theidea that fat, and especially
animal fat, might be good, kindof break the spell that that fat
is what makes you fat, or fat'sgoing to clog your arteries, or
that sort of nonsense.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
Well, yes, this idea that saturated fat clogs your
arteries.
This was dispelled years ago.
The fat that they find in theartery clogs is mostly
unsaturated fat, the kind that'sin vegetable oils Very little
saturated fat.
In traditional cultures, whatthey prized most was the fat of

(21:24):
the animals and, for example,they would only hunt animals at
certain seasons of the year whenthey were fattest, and if they
killed an animal that didn'thave enough fat, it was called
rubbish and it was thrown away.
The lean meat in, let's justsay in a buffalo was cut into
strips, dried, salted or driedor smoked, and all the fat was

(21:49):
rendered and that was spread onthe lean meat.
They never ate lean meat.
They never ate skinless chickenbreasts.
The fruit was left on the treesfor the birds to get fat and,
by the way, we now know that thebest source of vitamin K2 is
bird fat, bird fat and birdliver.
So if you're eating skinlesschicken breasts, you're losing

(22:13):
the plot there.
It's what the dieticiansrecommend.
But duck fat, goose fat, theseare very, very healthy fats for
us.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
Right on.
Well, I think I heard you in adifferent interview mention
something like you had your dietanalyzed at one point Just to
find out your ratio.
Your diet was like somethinglike 70% fat 70% of calories is
fat.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
That's the diet that works for me.
My health challenge ishypoglycemia, and if I don't eat
enough fat I just can'tfunction.
And we know that the vegetableoils are not good for you.
What I eat is butter and I cookin lard and drink whole milk
and um, and that keeps me going,keeps my blood sugar from

(22:55):
dropping.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
That's no, that's known science okay well, and
there was, I think, a differentinterview you had mentioned.
There was some somebody thathad written in and he was.
He loved fried foods and all hedid was switch out his
vegetable oils for lard and thatwas the only dietary change he
made and he lost a lot of weightjust with that one switch.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
I well believe it.
In fact, I wrote an articlerecently I found this study
where the researchers had gottenthe rats addicted to sugar.
They had the sugar water forthe rats and then they gave them
a diet that was 40% lard, andyou know what?
The rats didn't want the sugaranymore, and the researchers

(23:35):
weren't happy about this.
They said these rats on thechronic high fat diet is what
they call the chronic high fatdiet no longer wanted their
sweet, palatable foods.
And so what's the reason forthis?
Well, sugar raises dopamine,makes us feel better temporarily
.
But guess what Fat does too?
Animal fats raise dopamine.

(23:57):
So why not raise your dopaminewith something that's good for
you instead of something that'sempty calories and depletes you
of nutrients?
Wow, this is so funny.
A lot of people tell us so manypeople are addicted to sugar and
it's very hard to get off thisaddiction.
We've had a lot of people tellus when they get on our diet it

(24:19):
doesn't happen immediately, butover weeks and months eating the
high-fat diet real foodsuddenly their desire for sugar
goes away and they don't needwillpower to stop eating sugar,
they just don't want it.
So I think that's really goodnews for all of us.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
Right, and don't be afraid of fat is kind of the
takeaway.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
Like lean into it, don't be afraid of fat and it
will be good for you and willhelp you.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
And as for gaining weight, as you said, this guy
actually lost weight switchingto lard.
A lot of things in processedfood make us gain weight, such
as MSG.
That's known in the science.
But I'm also concerned aboutand especially women holding

(25:04):
them to very strict standards,especially later in life, when
you go through menopause.
In traditional cultures, everywoman gained weight.
They got sturdier and strongerbecause they were had a
different role and some of thewomen became hunters for their
families and Fisher Fisher women.
They needed to be sturdy andstrong and I think I always say

(25:29):
if you can wear your prom dresswhen you're 50, you're too thin,
because women who don't gainweight at menopause become frail
and wrinkled and that's notgood.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
No, nobody likes saggy.
Yeah Right, well, that'sseveral good nuggets in there,
so there you go.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, yeah, let me good news for women that the
average size in America is size14.
You know you don't want to be asize 18.
I understand that, but youdon't need to be a size 10
anymore, and one survey foundthat the women who were happiest
were the women who were size 14.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
There's something about a particular body image
and it's like so.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
I find with clients often there's a tug between I
want to be this size, but I likehow I feel better at a
different size, and that'sprecisely what you're talking
about, like exactly, and Ireally fault the medical
profession, for you know, thestandard that you're supposed to
weigh now is not the healthyweight at all.

(26:33):
The insurance companies putyour weight much higher for
optimal health.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
And isn't there an uptick in cholesterol, sometimes
related to that that is used toscare them back into submission
with particular that that theyis used to scare them into back
into submission with particular.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
Possibly, cholesterol should go up as you age because
cholesterol protects youagainst cancer, so you need more
protection as you age and yeah,this whole cholesterol thing is
a totally false path.
It's the last thing we need toworry about, even if your
cholesterol is very high.
You just don't need to worryabout it Now if your cholesterol

(27:11):
is very low.
Yes, that's a worry because lowcholesterol is associated with
cancer.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
There you have it, people.
Okay, well, sally, one of theconcepts that you I think you
were the first one to articulateis the difference between a
processed food and a denaturedfood.
So I want to use that to frameprotein a little bit, but tell
us what the difference is, andthen we'll zoom in on protein
and maybe even milk specifically.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah well, we've always processed our food.
We make bread, we make pickles,we cook.
Cooking is processing, uh so?
Uh, it's not.
And that kind of processingoften makes the food more
digestible.
It releases nutrients, itincreases nutrients.

(27:55):
When you make sauerkraut, youincrease the amount of vitamin c
and cabbage tenfold.
So you only need a littlespoonful of sauerkraut to get
the vitamin c you need for theday.
So that's a good kind ofprocessing.
We call that traditionalprocessing.
But modern processing denaturesthe food, adds toxins, reduces

(28:16):
the availability of nutrients,and so this is the.
I would call it industrialprocessing.
That's not what we want.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yeah, yeah, well, and it specifically came in a lot
in the, because one thing is ahealth coach and people in the
exercise world, and theconvenience foods comes in in
the form of protein powders, andso talk a little bit about that
process and what it's doing tothe food or the protein
specifically and what yourthoughts are on it so, uh, we
have, of course, anything youthink is true.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
We're against this whole emphasis on protein.
Now, we do need protein, weneed animal protein and we need
10 to 20% of our calories asprotein.
You need a higher amount.
If you're an athlete, if you'regrowing you know working out a
lot.
Yes, you need about 20% of yourcalories as protein.

(29:06):
You know working out a lot.
Yes, you need about 20% of yourcalories as protein.
Your kidneys are not designed todeal with much more protein,
and especially the concentratedprotein in protein powders.
And the other thing thatprotein does it depletes you of
vitamin A.
You need vitamin A to useprotein and the more vitamin A

(29:27):
replete you are.
If you're taking your cod liveroil and you actually can get by
with very little proteinbecause you're using it
efficiently and appropriately,then there are some proteins
that are really denatured byprocessing, and we'll start with
milk proteins.
These are extremely fragile andwhen you make protein you know

(29:49):
milk protein powders, wheypowders they become twisted and
warped and your body says Idon't recognize this protein.
This must be a foreign proteinand has to mount an immune
response or the kidneys have towork overtime and you can see
where this will take you overtime and you can see where this

(30:11):
will take you.
So we do need animal food, wedo need protein, but not too
much, and we do we.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
What we really need more of in the modern diet is
the fats we're not gettingenough of well, it's more
representative of the idea thatwe can just take one nutrient,
remove it from its context andeat it, and then somehow we're
getting the benefit that weotherwise would.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
Yeah, dr Price found in Africa.
He was able to comparedifferent diets.
One of people was mostly animalfoods, one of people who had
mostly plant foods and one ofthe people who had mixed diet.
And the mixed diet people werehealthier.
They um were not quite as tallas the animal food diet, but

(30:51):
they were really well umproportioned and very strong.
And I just this is wonderfulnews.
You don't have to eat anextreme diet, uh, to be healthy.
You know the whole old,old-fashioned plate of meat, veg
and carb.
That's fine, it works.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
It just put a lot of butter on the vegetables yeah,
I've heard you joking beforevegetables that exist to carry
butter vegetables are really fatbecause you put butter on them
right, there you go.
Well, obviously.
So one of the foundations big.
They're a big proponent ofanimal foods, and since it's
such a popular topic these days,I don't want to miss my chance

(31:32):
to ask you about it.
So there's this trend of, Iguess, what you could loosely
call the carnivore diet, andthere's obviously different
versions of that.
But what are your thoughts onthe movement and what, if
anything, might be some of thelimitations of eating that way
for a long runway?

Speaker 2 (31:45):
Well, there were some diets like that that Dr Price
looked at, especially in thefrozen north, where they didn't
have, they didn't have plantfoods, and they did fine.
They had to have lots and lotsof fat in that diet.
That diet was 80% of caloriesis fat and they had special

(32:06):
fertility was a problem in thoseall animal food diets and they
ate thyroid glands and things,things like that, when it was
time to conceive, and thatthat's because the carbohydrates
are very important for thyroidfunction.
So there you know, it was adiet that required special

(32:26):
attention to certain aspects.
Let's let's put it like that,the other thing that happened
they would some of the men wouldgo crazy in the spring and
Chris Masterjohn believes it wasbecause they were low on
vitamin D at that time of theyear.
Yeah, okay, but most of thediets were mixed seafood, land

(32:53):
animals, birds, carbohydratefoods, vegetables and fruits,
and always with as much fat asthey could get and eat.
And if you have dairy foods, Imean dairy gives you such an
advantage, because butter fat isthe healthiest fat in nature.

(33:14):
It's the fat for the growth anddevelopment of all mammals.
There can't be anything wrongwith it.
It's a fat that's impossible toimitate.
You cannot get all thewonderful fatty acids and butter
.
You know imitation food andit's got the fat soluble
vitamins, especially if it'sfrom pasture fed animals.
It's just the perfect fat.
It tastes wonderful and if youhave access to dairy foods, you

(33:38):
have access to this fat.
The other advantage that peoplehave with dairy foods is that
they have calcium, and incultures that didn't have dairy
foods they had to pay a lot ofattention to calcium.
They ground up bones of fishand small animals and added that
to their food and they tendedto be shorter, not as tall, as

(34:01):
the people who had the dairy intheir diets.
And we know that being tall isan advantage in life.
People who are tall do better,they're more successful.
Yeah, okay so generally speaking, not always, but generally
speaking.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
Okay.
So what I think I'm hearing isthere's just there are some
limitations to eatingexclusively, you know, animal
and or exclusively like.
Some people even go so far as,like the only thing you eat is
ground beef and salt.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
Oh, yeah, yeah, I think, and I'm telling you I'm
talking as a mother you cannotraise a family on ground beef
and salt.
I'm sorry they will rebel.
They'll go out and get junkfood.
They'll go from yourpuritanical diet right to the
pornographic food.
Nice frame right to thepornographic food.

(34:47):
The number one requirement for ahealthy diet is that your
children will eat it and they'llbe happy with that food and
they won't need any other kindsof food.
Yeah, Okay.
By the way, one reason thatpeople do go to this all meat
diet is because they're havingdigestive problems with plant
foods.
And.
I understand that Plant foodsare very hard to digest and most

(35:11):
of these special preparationtechniques have to do with
making plant foods moredigestible.
Grains are very hard to digestand all traditional cultures
took steps to pre-digest thegrains with soaking or souring
or sprouting or or whatever.
Nuts are hard to digest.

(35:31):
They need to be soaked.
Also, most vegetables need tobe cooked and with fat.
So um I I can see how they getto this spot and why the
all-meat diet makes them feelbetter, but it's just not
sustainable.
You can't eat this way all thetime.
It's no fun.
It's no fun.
I mean, what's the fun ofeating ground beef with salt?

Speaker 1 (35:54):
all day.
Yeah, they're not the life ofthe party.
Anywhere you go, that's yourdiet, for one.
But yeah, I've known a fewpeople who've done it for an
extended period of time and theyend up inevitably drifting back
to more omnivorous ways ofeating.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yes, for various reasons, that's the way we're
supposed to eat yeah, I thinkyou're right, you know I'll tell
you something interesting aboutthe eskimos.
Um, when they came in contactwith the europeans, the the one
thing they didn't necessarilyabandon their food ways, but
they all adopted what they callbannock bread, and this bread
made it in a cast iron pan andnow it's considered like an

(36:32):
original part of the Eskimo diet.
They all eat this bread andapparently they just felt better
if they had this source ofcarbohydrate.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
I didn't know that All Eskimos eat bread today,
even if they're in a traditionallifestyle.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
Where they get their grain is maybe the question.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
Yeah, I don't know how they.
I don't know the details of howthey prepare it, but it seemed
to be something that improvedfor them.
It's just like in the Southseas Once the pig was introduced
.
The tradition is they stoppedbeing cannibals because the pig
supplied the saturated fat andnutrients that they were missing

(37:09):
in their native diet.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
Wow.
Okay, let me close the loop onprotein and protein powders in
particular.
Is there any protein powderthat the foundation has found
that they can actually getbehind or recommend, or is it
all just too?

Speaker 2 (37:20):
denatured.
They're not natural foods, yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
Now, one thing that traditional people did do they
didn't make protein powders, butthey did dry foods.
Now, one thing that traditionalpeople did do they didn't make
protein powders, but they diddry foods.
One thing that was prettywidespread was drying shellfish.
They would put the oysters outin the sun and when they were
very dry they pounded them, madea powder and put the powder in

(37:46):
little leather bags and theytraded that or they just saved
it to eat later.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
Wow, I did not know that.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
So that is a way of preserving Drying is.
A lot of cultures did this, sowe do get behind the desiccated
liver and the desiccated oystersand these kind of powders.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
It's that whole food.
It's not a particularmacronutrient, it's the whole
thing powdered, and that's thedifference.
Is what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Yes.
Okay, and all the nutrients arethere.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
Yeah, I've more than once jokingly said in reference
to you, you've probablyforgotten more about nutrition
than I've ever learned, and Ithink you've just demonstrated
that.
So thank you for that.
Okay, so that's kind of just aquick take on just some of the
research and depth that goes on.
So I want to switch toeducation.
As far as the foundation'smission, so obviously what we're

(38:39):
doing here is educational.
You've been on countless shows.
I also noticed you've beenwriting for the Ech times yeah
your joke about I'm just takinga sabbatical from that.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
I just, I've got so much else to do, but I told them
I'd come back to them yeah,well, I popular those articles
they have been, and for goodreason.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
I noticed in that one you had your joke about how to
know when kale is ready to eat.
You want to tell the listenerabout that one well, it's never
ready to eat.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
You don't have to use kale.
Kale should be cooked a longtime.
You know, in the southerngreens.
It's one of the greens theyused.
But you cooked it.
You cooked it and cooked ithours, chopped it really fine
and then you put turkey tails orback fat or always had fat with

(39:25):
it.
But people are making juicewith raw kale.
This, this is not good.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
No not at all no, okay, well, okay.
So we've got just obviously theshows you've been doing that
you also have an amazingly richeducational uh content on your
website.
If somebody stumps me with anutrition question, that's the
first place I go.
I start looking and findingwhat things you guys have been
doing.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
Everything we've ever published is on the website all
our book reviews.
You know, if we do 20 bookreviews a year, uh, it's all on
the website.
We also have a very popularpodcast.
You know a lot of people wouldrather listen than read and we
understand that.
We have scientific articles,but we also have kind of

(40:10):
soundbite articles.
We have our little flyers,which have been very popular
just like butter is better flyerand explaining why or dangers
of.
Let's see, no one's called myfriend cholesterolesterol, so we
kind of try to break it down soit's not too much information

(40:31):
at one time.
So there's lots of differentways of learning things.
We're also working on a course,wise Traditions course.
It's going slowly, it's goingslowly, but we're working on it,
yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
It seems like any way that somebody prefers to
consume information or to learn.
You're working to meet themwhere they are.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
That's what we try to do.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
One thing I love about the foundation is that you
are not beholden to anyindustry or institution.
And you're not, I just get togo.
Oh they're.
They're not promoting or sayingthis because they've been paid
to or there's a corporate youknow bent here.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
Even our ads.
We don't let people have bigads in our journal.
The biggest ad they can have isa half a column and it's $240 a
year and that's that's it.
So we don't get any governmentmoney, we don't get any
corporate money and we basicallyrely on membership.
So I hope that your listenerswill become members and receive

(41:30):
our quarterly journal andsupport the work we do, and
people have been very generouswith us also, so we're very
grateful for that.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
Well and your membership is low cost.
It's not unapproachable.
Tell people what it costs.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
It's $40.
And if that is a hardship, youjust let us know and we'll give
you a $25 membership.
But it's $40.
And if you, if that is ahardship, you just let us know
and we'll give you a $25membership but it's $40.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
For how long?
A year, not a month.
So four great journals for thatcost.
So totally worth it.
And I want to back you up onthe success of the podcast.
Hilda is amazing, that is.
I actually had the honor ofbeing on the show and it is
literally my favorite podcast,just because of the breadth and
depth of what she covers.
There's so many good topics andseveral hundred episodes.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
Good interviewer, she keeps rolling along, you know.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
Yeah, and so many times she goes over the research
, education activism and foodfarming and the healing arts.
There's just so many differentinteresting topics.
If people want to learn to beeducated, it's a great place to
go, so, but you also have yourannual Wise Traditions
Conference, so tell people aboutthat.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Annual conference.
This year it will be in Orlando, florida, the 25th through 27th
of October.
We have 30 to 40 speakers everytime, three to four tracks
every hour.
But what we're most proud of iswe really do the food.
This is a.
With your registration, you getfive meals of nourishing,

(42:54):
traditional foods and we try toshow all the components of a
healthy diet.
We always have lacto-fermentedfoods.
We serve kombucha, we makesauces with bone broth, we serve
pastured butter, we do organmeats, we do pate.

(43:18):
Yeah, so you will.
If you're new to this, it's agreat way to be introduced to
the way we eat.
To see it's like it.
I've got a funny story.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
So I took my family to the way we eat to see it's
like it, I've got a funny story.
So my I took my family to theconference in 2021 in dallas and
it was beautiful, fresh air.
Just because you think 2021,we're finally able to see each
other and hug and there's nomasks, and it was just like this
room full of people.
But we had the meal ticket andmy son thought he was getting
himself a big slice of chocolatecake and he sat down with liver

(43:49):
took a big bite and he was likewhoa, what, what is?
this so yeah, it's a, that was apattern interrupt for him.
He's like, okay, I didn't seethat coming, but yeah, if you've
never been, it is such a greatexperience.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
You're with food, love, foodies and freedom,
loving people, and there's justso many cool vendors, lots of
wonderful people, and the peopleare very talkative and very
friendly.
Yes.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
Yeah, it really is.
It's just like oh, I can speakfreely here, my people, you guys
get it.
There's something energeticabout being in that environment.
So if you've never been,definitely got.
My wife got to go last year too.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
And she just loved it .
So it is, and we do have achildren's program too.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
Yes, they love.
The children really enjoy it.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
Tell them what the kids do in the program.
Well, they have little lessons.
They do crafts um, they gooutside.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
They do lots of things you know, they actually,
I think, made kombucha, and oneof the ones, my oh, is that
right?

Speaker 2 (44:44):
yeah, they did some food.
Yeah, yeah, I think they madebutter in one of them.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
Yeah, I think that's one they did as well.
Yeah, so there's just, it's afamily-friendly event.
It is your people waiting foryou.
Then there's just yourenergized being around, that
many speakers who areapproachable, and it feels not
too big and not too small.
That's a wonderful.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
And great, great exhibitors too, and we handpick
exhibitors.
They have to all be approved byus.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
Yeah, yeah, ok.
So that's kind of some of theeducation, the content or a
resource that you have just onyour website and your other
outlets with the conference andsuch.
But the other big piece of thefoundation's mission is activism
.
So to me this really kind ofrounds out the significance of
the work you do and why I thinkyou've been so successful.
So I guess we can research andeducate all day, but if we don't

(45:31):
have the ability to advocateagainst some of the attempts to
centralize the food system, thismight all be for nothing.
So this podcast is calledDeconstructing Conventional, and
one of the things I love todeconstruct is the history and
agenda of the food system sopeople can see what's going on
and um.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
So my listeners is just how the food companies took
over the teaching of nutrition,and to dietitians, of course,
but also to the doctors.
And the food companies cannotmake money if they have to use
animal fats they're tooexpensive.

(46:08):
So the vegetable oils came in.
I call them industrial seedoils.
These are the most harmfulthing in the modern diet, and
they basically started usingthem and then, at the same time,
with their advertising,demonize the competition.
What's the competition?
It's butter and lard, and theyhave created the impression that

(46:28):
it's vulgar to use lard andthat we should feel guilty.
We should feel like privilegedelite and feel guilty if we're
eating butter.
So that's been the agenda formany years.
This is what we're fightingagainst.
This is what we're fightingagainst.

(46:51):
But, most of our activism hasbeen in the field of raw milk,
as you say.
When we started out, well,there were 27 states that
allowed the sale or allowedfarmers to provide raw milk in
some way.
It could be retail.
It could be on-farm herd sharesor pet milk.
Now we're up to 47 states.
We have three more to go.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
And yeah, that's been a.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
And so that's been a lot of activism on the state
level, in the state legislatures.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
Yeah, well, I want to even widen the frame one more.
So my listeners are not unawarethat food is just another
aspects of our lives that arebeing weaponized as part of more
of a globalist agenda.
And there's a there's a push toget us to eat mass produced
bugs and lab grown meats whichare grossly made from bacteria
and cancer cells and importantfetal cells.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
Well, that's not going to fly.
People don't like them.
They, you know.
They've put all this money intodeveloping these foods and they
, they flop.
The only way you can get peopleto eat them is if they don't
have anything else to eat, ifthey're in institutions.
Yeah.
And even then it's hard to getpeople to eat these foods.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
When they're even getting sneaky with trying to
get mRNA technology in everyaspect of food system.
We even noticed organicStonyfield Farm now has CRISPR
gene edited bacteria in it andit's showing up in kombucha and
there's even really, oh dearyeah, chr.
Hansen, there's a patentedbacteria now in some of the
kombucha brands, so I started.

(48:17):
We just have to keep payingattention to these things.
So there's, there's a.
I guess they're even trying toput vaccines into lettuce, like.
So give us just, I guess, yourperspective, because you've been
at this so long, your seasonedperspective on where the real
food movement is today and whatare the opportunities and
challenges and how do we expandour protection of real food.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
We have something called the 50% campaign, which
is we urge everybody to spend50% of their food dollar in
direct purchases fromgrass-based farmers.
So your eggs, your milk, yourmeat, your cheese, all these
foods, and then your artisanfoods you know the person who's
making them sauerkraut,sourdough, bread at least 50% of

(49:01):
your food dollar on these foods.
Now, the rest of your fooddollar.
You can celebrate how small theworld has become and enjoy rice
and pineapple and all thosethings, but again, you need to
be careful of where you buy from.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Yeah, well, it's as much putting your dollar behind
the food system you'd like tosee, and there's an
inconvenience and intentionalitythat goes with that.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Absolutely.
You have to.
You know, make plans that arenot quite as convenient, but you
know you know make plans thatare not quite as convenient.
But you know, this is the future.
The future is not processedfood, and I think the industry
is beginning to realize this.
The future is real food thatyou buy from a real farmer and a
real artisan processor.
And the reason I say that withabsolute surety is because the

(49:50):
people who do not switch theireating habits to real food are
going to die out.
That's nature's way.
I call it the natural selectionof the wise.
They'll die young, or theirchildren will die young, or they
won't have children, and that'sreally what's happening now.
The birth rate is going down.
So many people can't getpregnant and we'll see more and

(50:11):
more of this because theprocessed foods do not support
life and most people today arejust kind of coasting on the
good diet of their ancestors,and this can't go on for many
more generations.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
Well, catherine Austin Fitz recently got the
Price Pottinger Foundation torelease that video they made
about the Pottinger's cats.
Have you seen that?
Or you know?
Oh?

Speaker 2 (50:35):
yes, that's a really good yeah.
And the cats?
When they were on a diet thatwas not nourishing for cats, in
other words, a cooked food diet.
By the fourth generation, therewas no more reproduction.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
Yeah, yeah.
In other words, a cooked fooddiet by the fourth generation.
There was no more reproduction.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
Yeah, yeah.
So if you guys, have not seenthat.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
You can search for the Pottinger's cast.
I'll put a link to that in theshow notes.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
It's such a compelling video of what happens
, generation by generation.
A lot of us have seen that.
Yeah, yeah, it's a very goodvideo.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
Okay, well, I want to ask you to kind of dream with
me for a second.
Put your your systems levelgeneration thinker hat on and
and you've lived this.
So talk to us about the waysthat regenerative farming maybe
has matured in the last fewdecades and what it would take
for that kind of farming to youknow, recapture the word
conventional.
What are the milestones that wemight go through so those of us

(51:21):
like in the fight or with youthon our side, ready to go make
change and build the parallelsystems, what are the?
What are we looking?

Speaker 2 (51:27):
for our 50 campaign is the place to start just join
up and um spending 50 of yourfood dollar from direct um,
directly from farmers.
And if you're don't know wherethey are, call your local
chapter.
They keep a list of who thegood farmers are in your area,
where to get the raw milk and soforth.

(51:48):
Uh, so that's one Um.
I had something else in my head.
It's gone away.
Well, it just, I think there's,it's you.
The only people who can changethis are you, and you won't
change it from the inside.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
They're too entrenched, they're too powerful
but, you can change it by justnot putting any money into their
products yeah now I had anotherguest on a different topic but
he said there's, we have tobuild a parallel economy.
It's not like one the system isgoing to burn itself down in one
day and really we're all goingto move over it's.
We're slowly going to migrateand build the other and, um, I

(52:25):
guess I'm as interested to hearlike, what have you learned?
That are kind of the if we'relooking at, you know, in the
future we're looking back andsay we did it, like, what were
the success moments?
There's obviously just shiftingour food dollar.
Are there any other buddingthings in the regenerative
farming or the food scene thatwe could be looking to get
behind that you think, if we putenough effort behind this is

(52:45):
really going to push us over thehump.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Yeah, well, you know, one thing is what I mentioned
earlier, the abattoir situation.
So we, we, what we really needis wealthy investors to build
these abattoirs for us Peoplewho really want to help and have
a lot of money.
They cost about $2 million tobuild.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
You're talking about the slaughterhouses where we can
process them Smallslaughterhouse.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
There's a lot of people out there that could
build abattoirs for the localfarmer and feel good about
themselves.
They've really done somethinggood with their money yeah well,
that's another thing.
Um the, the sea and the milk.
You don't need as much of aninvestment to do raw milk.
You you know you're not killinganimals, you're just milking

(53:29):
and it's an investment.
But it's not like supplyingmeat.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
Okay, so if an investor wanted to do the
slaughterhouse, we're looking ata couple of million.
What's a reasonable cost to setup a raw milk farm.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
Oh, if you're just doing milk, you can do it for 10
or $20,000 if you have the land.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
There you go.
So if you're somebody listeningwho has the means and you see
the controlled demolition or theattempt to remove independent
income from the food scene, youcan be part of the solution in
that macro way.
That would help so many peopleand really just make this
so-called great reset irrelevant.
It's like no thanks, we'regoing to just, we have our food,
we don't need you.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
But honestly relevant .
It's like you know, thanks,we're going to just we have our
food, we don't need you, buthonestly, it's going to happen
one way or another.
It is the future of food, andthat's good.
This is going to happen, solet's join in and be some of the
part of the solution.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
Yeah, Okay, well, as we start to wrap up, so I guess
the last question I have for youtoday is, just because you're
such a remarkable person andyour story is just an
inspiration and encouragement toso many people, I guess I
wanted to ask a couple of things.
What keeps you going and,essentially, what can we learn
from your story that can give usthe reserves to take on big
dreams and face our ownindividual challenges and not
quit?

Speaker 2 (54:42):
Actually I'm a very methodical person Okay, person
okay, uh, when I took um.
You know, in high school youtook that vocational aptitude
test.
The thing that they got for mewas librarian.
So I'm very methodical.
I keep good files.
I like a really um planned outday.

(55:02):
I spend most of my time at mydesk and um, you just have to
keep at it.
You know this is not a flash inthe pan thing, you just have to
keep at it.
You know this is not a flash inthe pan thing, you just have to
keep at it.
Yeah, with your, if you have anorganization, you know they,
they require tending and they'relike a garden, you have to weed
and, you know, put water in andso forth.
It's, it's not something thatjust happens by itself.

(55:25):
So, and I think the other thingis, you know I I really do not
eat any processed food.
Everything I eat is natural,cooked by myself.
You know I don't eat anyprocessed dairy foods, just raw
milk or raw cheese.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
Well, and you've been successful enough and you've
done so much.
You've done so much, you'vewritten so many amazing books
and you have, I imagine, theopportunity to bow out of this
fight, but you stay in it.
So what?
What keeps you in it?
What drives you?

Speaker 2 (55:55):
well, I can't, I can't leave.
Yeah, this monster has just gotme by the, by the neck, but hey
, well, I'm glad what I do it'sa lot of fun yeah, I'm having a
little fun.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
I can't ever imagine you retiring.
I think you'll just endlesslygo on.
Well, not in a bad sense, justin a there's always another
horizon, there's anothermilestone and there's people
that you can encourage andyou've done so much of it.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
So we definitely I've got some people in mind to take
over, so yeah, All right.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
Well, thank you again for everything you've done.
Give the listeners a littlewindow into where to find your
work, or anything else wehaven't covered.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
So a few websites here.
Our main website iswestonapriceorg and our
conference website iswisetraditionsorg, so that's
where you can register for theconference.
We also have a website whereyou can find raw milk
realmilkcom.
There's an interactive map.
You put your state, your zipcode in and you can find the raw

(56:54):
milk near you.
And finally, my own website isnourishingtraditionscom.
I don't write very often for it, but definitely it's a sounding
board for new ideas for me.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Yeah, and you've got so many books you've written too
, so can people find those thereas well.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
I have a new trends publishing.
You can order them, but they'reon that.
You know that place where youcan get books online.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
They're all there.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
That one place.
Yes, that not nameless place.
Yeah, we won't.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
Barnes and Noble has them also.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
Yeah, okay, great.
Well, sally, thank you so muchfor taking the time today.
It's been a delight having youon the show and we really
appreciate your work.
Thank you for having me.

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Sally Fallon Morrell - Timeless Nutrition Wisdom and the Fight for Food Freedom

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Sally Fallon Morrell - Timeless Nutrition Wisdom and the Fight for Food Freedom