January 9, 2024 • 15 mins
It takes a special person to impress a dragon.
In this bonus episode, Tracie shares deep thoughts about the science fiction and fantasy novel series the Dragonriders of Pern by Anne McCaffrey. From her early exhilaration of discovering fantasy novels with female protagonists to her current discomfort upon realizing the essentialist nature of dragon/rider pairings, Tracie shares with Emily how McCaffrey’s world made her a reader…and why it deserves a second look with a more critical eye.
Throw on your earbuds and join us as we battle the Thread! (But only if you’re a Patron. This bonus episode is exclusive content!)
CW: abstract discussions of rape.
Our theme music is "Professor Umlaut" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Learn more about Tracie and Emily (including our other projects), join the Guy Girls' family, secure exclusive access to bonus episodes, video versions, and early access to Deep Thoughts by visiting us on Patreon.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Tracy Guy-Dekker and you're listening to Deep
Thoughts about Stupid Shit,because pop culture is still
culture, and shouldn't you knowwhat's in your head?
In today's bonus episode, I'llbe sharing my deep thoughts
about the Dragonrider series byAnne McCaffrey with my sister,
emily Guy-Burken, and with you.
Let's dive in.
Have you ever had something youlove dismissed because it's
(00:24):
just pop culture?
Others might deem stupid shit.
You no matters.
You know what's worth talkingand thinking about, and so do we
.
So come over, think with us aswe delve into our deep thoughts
about stupid shit.
This show is a labor of love,but that doesn't make it free to
produce.
If you enjoy it even half asmuch as we do, please consider
(00:46):
helping to keep us overthinking.
You can support us at ourPatreon there's a link in the
show notes or leave a positivereview so others can find us and
, of course, share the show withyour people.
All right, em, what do youremember about the Dragonriders
of?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Pern, so I remember that you really liked them.
I only read a couple.
I read two of the Harper Halltrilogy with Mennoly, I think
was her name, right?
Yup, that's her name, and theywere like little dragons in that
one they're fire lizards andthey were like yes, yes, and
(01:24):
they were adorable and she wasmusical.
Yes, she's a musician, there'ssomething about music, yeah.
And there were two.
It was a trilogy and I read thefirst two and I liked them very
much.
And then the third one wasabout a boy who I was like I'm
not interested and just like Iread the first three pages and
(01:45):
was like I'm where's Mennoly,I'm in it for her and I quit.
And then I read, I think, theWhite Dragon, and I remember
like enjoying it.
But there was, I think I wasprobably still in elementary
school, like I was in fifthgrade, maybe as old as sixth
grade, and there was very mildsex scene in it and I'm like I'm
(02:09):
out, and so I liked thebackground of the story.
It was that they were on PernWas the name of the planet, the
planet that was Earth, likethere had been some sort of like
terrible, apocalyptic thingthat had happened.
And then there was.
(02:31):
They ended up one as colonizerson Pern and there was something
called the thread that likerained down from the sky, that
were like these like I don'tknow, like parasites that ate
everything and so the dragonsthey use their fire breathing to
kill all the threads to makesure that they could survive,
(02:51):
because otherwise they'd eat alltheir crops and everything else
.
And oh, and the covers.
The covers of the books werereally, really good.
Oh, what was that guy's name?
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Michael Whalen, that's it.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yes, michael Whalen, he did a phenomenal job on these
, these covers.
This is like back in the battledays of covers, where not that
what covers aren't still takenvery seriously these days, but
it just it felt like a thingwith these that Michael Whalen
made sure he did a really goodjob with them.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Well, he clearly actually read the stories, or at
least the very good synopsis ofthem, so that the dragons were
like matched the description inthe books and stuff.
Yeah, also, it wasn't all aboutlike it's an ass which is so
many science fiction.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yes and the like.
The dragons were renderedbeautifully and the people were
rendered very nicely as well.
That's basically what Iremember about Anne McCaffrey.
I'd love to know why we'retalking about it today.
What brings this up for thedeep thoughts?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
So you remember a lot of stuff.
I'll fill in some other details.
I first read the Harper Halltrilogy that's the one with
mentally Harper's.
Where that was there thepernies word for musicians like
Bard, I guess.
I first read that when I was inthe sixth grade and I
absolutely adored it.
It just lit something up withme.
I met Anne McCaffrey in a linewith a lot of other fans at a
(04:18):
book convention not long beforeshe died, I suppose and I told
her that she was the reason thatI loved reading, and I think
that was true.
Like I, just Something aboutthose books just really captured
my imagination.
Now I had read Tolkien in likethird and fourth grade and
really loved that kind of highepic adventure.
(04:40):
And what McCaffrey brought wassome science fiction to it as
well.
So there was this sort of likealmost feudal kind of existence,
but then there were dragons.
But there was also science andit was from.
They were colonists.
So there had been space travelin the past and the thread that
you remember was she actuallyexplained it scientifically that
(05:02):
there was like a rogue planeton this elliptical I don't
remember she described theactual orbit that caused it to
come within range to send offthese, whatever they were, that
destroyed everything.
And there was something aboutthat mix that just just adored
and there was a strong femalecharacter as the protagonist and
(05:23):
so all of those things togethermade it just really light up.
You know 11 year old Tracy'sbrain and it has remained like,
unlike you, I read all of them.
I mean actually doing research,for today I've realized that
there were some later that shewrote with her son much, much
(05:45):
later, like closer to the end ofher life, that I haven't read,
but I read all of the ones fromthe 60s, 70s and 80s and then I
also, like McCaffrey, would likeco author with other books,
like she wrote besides thedragonriders, where the you know
Perne was like her biggest kindof franchise, but she wrote
other things as well.
I read all of those and thenshe would write things like with
(06:07):
other authors and through thatI found Elizabeth Moon who wrote
the peccinarion theories thatoh my God, like I just
absolutely adored.
And so McCaffrey kind of loomslarge as this like pillar of the
(06:30):
kinds of literature that I love, the kinds of characters I love
, the kinds of scenarios that Ilove.
I still you know, listeners, Idon't know if you do this, but I
have like the good bookshelvesin my house that have like the
books that like I want you toperuse that, I want you to see
sort of my literary history.
Mccaffrey's books are on there,like the hard covers that I
(06:53):
bought, with the nice dustjackets, with the Michael Whalen
paintings, so.
So that's kind of like where shesits in my literary DNA, and so
I wanted to take some time withUM to kind of look back at that
a little bit, especially sincethe strong female protagonist
was a big part of what drew meto it.
So I'm not going to go intoeverything because there's a lot
(07:16):
and there's a lot of fandom outthere and has been for a long
time.
So and I I haven't done, Ihaven't done sufficient research
to do that justice.
So I just want to name that.
I want to look at gender andwhether or not turn and
McCaffrey's treatment isfeminist and how it stands up
(07:39):
and how it doesn't.
That's specifically where Iwant to focus.
Now, you know, the two of us,we meander sometimes, so I'm not
going to like stop us frommeandering, but that's going to
be my sort of main focus.
Okay, so let me give like alittle bit bigger.
Like Emily gave a couple oflike snapshots of what she
remembers, so let me see if Ican give a little bit more of
(07:59):
the picture.
So the kind of backstory of thisDragon Riders of Perne
franchise is that some distantfuture we earthlings are
colonizing all earth likeplanets that we can find.
We find this one, we name itPerne, we settle and then within
a few like, within a generation, the planet, the rogue planet
(08:22):
that sets off the thread like,comes with too close and kills a
lot of people and destroyscrops, and so one of the
colonists is a scientist and sheactually does some work to
(08:42):
genetically modify and develop anew, like a modified species of
a native species, to the firelizards that Emily remembers are
like, maybe cat sized to us, toa, you know, medium sized dog.
And they, the colonists,noticed that these fire lizards
can they chew phosphorus rockthey call it firestone and are
able to breathe fire.
(09:03):
And the lizard, fire, destroysthread.
But these things are littlelike, they couldn't possibly
protect the whole planet.
And so this scientist decidesto create this new version of
them which is large enough forhuman beings to ride, and she
actually has it planned out.
So, however many generationsshe has like a target size she
(09:23):
wants them to be and she so sheworks it up.
So the very first clutch theycall a litter because they lay
eggs.
The very first clutch are likeabout horse sized and then
eventually they get actuallyquite big, like 45 feet.
Because of the threat of thread.
The colonists lose all contactwith their earth origins.
(09:45):
Earth is just like a legend, amythos of their past, and they
lose a lot of the technologythat brought them there not all,
but a lot.
And they set up this almostfeudal structure where the
dragon riders become sort of thelords right, like what the
(10:08):
landholders would have been infeudal England.
It's not around farming, though, but they do tithe and they
call it tithing, so that thefarmers who own their own land
and the other guilds, peoplelike tithe to the dragon riders.
Okay, so that's sort of thesocietal structure.
The thing is, the thread onlycomes when that rogue planet is
(10:29):
close enough to kind of it, sothat it's whatever's being cast
off from it enters theatmosphere of Pern.
So it'll go between 40 and acouple hundred years between
that past, because it's anirregular orbit Like right
exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Like Pluto.
I want to say erratic.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
but it's not erratic, it's irregular.
That's the word.
Thank you.
And so the first pieces thatMcCaffrey wrote there were some
novellas that were published ina science fiction magazine
called Analog.
Those first pieces becameDragonflight, dragonquest and
the White Dragon, which was theone that you remember.
(11:10):
So that was a first trilogy,the first of which was published
in 68.
And we meet a woman who becomesa dragon rider.
And now the dragons also havesort of a hierarchical structure
.
They're different colors andthe different colors also align
with different sexes.
So the only female dragons aregold, who are queens, also
(11:30):
called queens, and blue, andthen there's also bronze, brown
and green.
Bronze, brown and green are allmale.
There is a phenomenon wherebythe and this happens to fire
lizards as well fire lizards anddragons are what's the word I'm
looking for Like kinetic, notjust not not just telekinetic,
(11:50):
but yes, they are, but actuallymore important to that is
telepathic.
Oh, okay.
So dragons have higher thoughtand language.
They don't speak with theirvoices, they have telepathic
connections.
They they call it impressing.
They impress on the firstcreature that feeds them after
(12:11):
their, after they're hatching.
So in the Harbor Hall trilogywith Menelie, which was my
introduction, menelieaccidentally impresses 12 fire
lizards because she happens tobe in a cave where they are
hatching during a thread stormand the babies, as they hatch,
(12:32):
go out to go find food becausethey're starving but thread is
falling and so she sees one ortwo go out and immediately die
because they can hit by thread.
So she's grabbing them as theycome out and feeding them and
accidentally impresses 12 firelizards, which may be why I have
too many pets now.
(12:52):
So the dragons impress on theperson that will be their rider
and it is very clear that thedragon chooses their rider.
Now they choose from a monkwho's in front of them, but they
choose.
It's not like Menelie where shegrabbed the fire lizard and put
chicken in its mouth.
It's the dragon speaks to I'mputting quotes around the word
(13:13):
speaks telepathic to the personthat they want to be their rider
.
And McCaffrey had somewhatrigid rules about the sex and
sexuality of the human thatcould impress the dragons of the
(13:34):
different colors.
So only heterosexual women.
And this is all cis, likeMcCaffrey didn't even
acknowledge the possibility ofgender queer folks which in 68
makes sense.
So only heterosexual women canimpress the gold, the queens,
and then only heterosexual menthe bronzes, and then only
(13:58):
homosexual men, the greens, thesmaller male dragons, the
smallest of the male dragons,and they do go down in size in
the order that I said.
And like McCaffrey was likevery specific and rigid about
this and then, like later in herlife in the existence of the
(14:19):
franchise, she sort of softeneda little bit and would be like
well, maybe like a butch ormasculine lesbian could impress.
It was when I was reading thisto prepare for today.
I was like whoa, I didn'tremember any of this and this is
like kind of freaking me out alittle bit.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Now that that gets to the reason why I was like I was
.
I was out and I was young Imean, I was 11 or 12 reading the
white dragon and the sex sceneis not just between the two
riders, their dragons are alsohaving sex at the same time,
exactly, and that was like Idon't, I can't, mmm, it just
(15:01):
weirded me out.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, yeah.
So that's actually preciselywhy she was so particular about
the sexuality of the riders.
Because because of thetelepathic link hey there, deep
Thinker, if you want to hear therest of my deep thoughts about
dragon sex, you'll have tobecome a patron and confirm your
(15:24):
place in the guy girl family.
Not only will you get access tomore and early deep thoughts,
you'll be helping make sure thissibling revelry can continue.
Find the link in the show notesand thanks.
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin MacLeod from
incompetechcom.
Find full music credits in theshow notes.
(15:45):
Until next time, remember, popculture is still culture.
And shouldn't you know what'sin your head?
I'm Tracy Guy-Dekker and you're listening to Deep
Thoughts about Stupid Shit,because pop culture is still
culture, and shouldn't you knowwhat's in your head?
In today's bonus episode, I'llbe sharing my deep thoughts
about the Dragonrider series byAnne McCaffrey with my sister,
emily Guy-Burken, and with you.
Let's dive in.
Have you ever had something youlove dismissed because it's
(00:24):
just pop culture?
Others might deem stupid shit.
You no matters.
You know what's worth talkingand thinking about, and so do we
.
So come over, think with us aswe delve into our deep thoughts
about stupid shit.
This show is a labor of love,but that doesn't make it free to
produce.
If you enjoy it even half asmuch as we do, please consider
(00:46):
helping to keep us overthinking.
You can support us at ourPatreon there's a link in the
show notes or leave a positivereview so others can find us and
, of course, share the show withyour people.
All right, em, what do youremember about the Dragonriders
of?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Pern, so I remember that you really liked them.
I only read a couple.
I read two of the Harper Halltrilogy with Mennoly, I think
was her name, right?
Yup, that's her name, and theywere like little dragons in that
one they're fire lizards andthey were like yes, yes, and
(01:24):
they were adorable and she wasmusical.
Yes, she's a musician, there'ssomething about music, yeah.
And there were two.
It was a trilogy and I read thefirst two and I liked them very
much.
And then the third one wasabout a boy who I was like I'm
not interested and just like Iread the first three pages and
(01:45):
was like I'm where's Mennoly,I'm in it for her and I quit.
And then I read, I think, theWhite Dragon, and I remember
like enjoying it.
But there was, I think I wasprobably still in elementary
school, like I was in fifthgrade, maybe as old as sixth
grade, and there was very mildsex scene in it and I'm like I'm
(02:09):
out, and so I liked thebackground of the story.
It was that they were on PernWas the name of the planet, the
planet that was Earth, likethere had been some sort of like
terrible, apocalyptic thingthat had happened.
And then there was.
(02:31):
They ended up one as colonizerson Pern and there was something
called the thread that likerained down from the sky, that
were like these like I don'tknow, like parasites that ate
everything and so the dragonsthey use their fire breathing to
kill all the threads to makesure that they could survive,
(02:51):
because otherwise they'd eat alltheir crops and everything else
.
And oh, and the covers.
The covers of the books werereally, really good.
Oh, what was that guy's name?
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Michael Whalen, that's it.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yes, michael Whalen, he did a phenomenal job on these
, these covers.
This is like back in the battledays of covers, where not that
what covers aren't still takenvery seriously these days, but
it just it felt like a thingwith these that Michael Whalen
made sure he did a really goodjob with them.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Well, he clearly actually read the stories, or at
least the very good synopsis ofthem, so that the dragons were
like matched the description inthe books and stuff.
Yeah, also, it wasn't all aboutlike it's an ass which is so
many science fiction.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yes and the like.
The dragons were renderedbeautifully and the people were
rendered very nicely as well.
That's basically what Iremember about Anne McCaffrey.
I'd love to know why we'retalking about it today.
What brings this up for thedeep thoughts?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
So you remember a lot of stuff.
I'll fill in some other details.
I first read the Harper Halltrilogy that's the one with
mentally Harper's.
Where that was there thepernies word for musicians like
Bard, I guess.
I first read that when I was inthe sixth grade and I
absolutely adored it.
It just lit something up withme.
I met Anne McCaffrey in a linewith a lot of other fans at a
(04:18):
book convention not long beforeshe died, I suppose and I told
her that she was the reason thatI loved reading, and I think
that was true.
Like I, just Something aboutthose books just really captured
my imagination.
Now I had read Tolkien in likethird and fourth grade and
really loved that kind of highepic adventure.
(04:40):
And what McCaffrey brought wassome science fiction to it as
well.
So there was this sort of likealmost feudal kind of existence,
but then there were dragons.
But there was also science andit was from.
They were colonists.
So there had been space travelin the past and the thread that
you remember was she actuallyexplained it scientifically that
(05:02):
there was like a rogue planeton this elliptical I don't
remember she described theactual orbit that caused it to
come within range to send offthese, whatever they were, that
destroyed everything.
And there was something aboutthat mix that just just adored
and there was a strong femalecharacter as the protagonist and
(05:23):
so all of those things togethermade it just really light up.
You know 11 year old Tracy'sbrain and it has remained like,
unlike you, I read all of them.
I mean actually doing research,for today I've realized that
there were some later that shewrote with her son much, much
(05:45):
later, like closer to the end ofher life, that I haven't read,
but I read all of the ones fromthe 60s, 70s and 80s and then I
also, like McCaffrey, would likeco author with other books,
like she wrote besides thedragonriders, where the you know
Perne was like her biggest kindof franchise, but she wrote
other things as well.
I read all of those and thenshe would write things like with
(06:07):
other authors and through thatI found Elizabeth Moon who wrote
the peccinarion theories thatoh my God, like I just
absolutely adored.
And so McCaffrey kind of loomslarge as this like pillar of the
(06:30):
kinds of literature that I love, the kinds of characters I love
, the kinds of scenarios that Ilove.
I still you know, listeners, Idon't know if you do this, but I
have like the good bookshelvesin my house that have like the
books that like I want you toperuse that, I want you to see
sort of my literary history.
Mccaffrey's books are on there,like the hard covers that I
(06:53):
bought, with the nice dustjackets, with the Michael Whalen
paintings, so.
So that's kind of like where shesits in my literary DNA, and so
I wanted to take some time withUM to kind of look back at that
a little bit, especially sincethe strong female protagonist
was a big part of what drew meto it.
So I'm not going to go intoeverything because there's a lot
(07:16):
and there's a lot of fandom outthere and has been for a long
time.
So and I I haven't done, Ihaven't done sufficient research
to do that justice.
So I just want to name that.
I want to look at gender andwhether or not turn and
McCaffrey's treatment isfeminist and how it stands up
(07:39):
and how it doesn't.
That's specifically where Iwant to focus.
Now, you know, the two of us,we meander sometimes, so I'm not
going to like stop us frommeandering, but that's going to
be my sort of main focus.
Okay, so let me give like alittle bit bigger.
Like Emily gave a couple oflike snapshots of what she
remembers, so let me see if Ican give a little bit more of
(07:59):
the picture.
So the kind of backstory of thisDragon Riders of Perne
franchise is that some distantfuture we earthlings are
colonizing all earth likeplanets that we can find.
We find this one, we name itPerne, we settle and then within
a few like, within a generation, the planet, the rogue planet
(08:22):
that sets off the thread like,comes with too close and kills a
lot of people and destroyscrops, and so one of the
colonists is a scientist and sheactually does some work to
(08:42):
genetically modify and develop anew, like a modified species of
a native species, to the firelizards that Emily remembers are
like, maybe cat sized to us, toa, you know, medium sized dog.
And they, the colonists,noticed that these fire lizards
can they chew phosphorus rockthey call it firestone and are
able to breathe fire.
(09:03):
And the lizard, fire, destroysthread.
But these things are littlelike, they couldn't possibly
protect the whole planet.
And so this scientist decidesto create this new version of
them which is large enough forhuman beings to ride, and she
actually has it planned out.
So, however many generationsshe has like a target size she
(09:23):
wants them to be and she so sheworks it up.
So the very first clutch theycall a litter because they lay
eggs.
The very first clutch are likeabout horse sized and then
eventually they get actuallyquite big, like 45 feet.
Because of the threat of thread.
The colonists lose all contactwith their earth origins.
(09:45):
Earth is just like a legend, amythos of their past, and they
lose a lot of the technologythat brought them there not all,
but a lot.
And they set up this almostfeudal structure where the
dragon riders become sort of thelords right, like what the
(10:08):
landholders would have been infeudal England.
It's not around farming, though, but they do tithe and they
call it tithing, so that thefarmers who own their own land
and the other guilds, peoplelike tithe to the dragon riders.
Okay, so that's sort of thesocietal structure.
The thing is, the thread onlycomes when that rogue planet is
(10:29):
close enough to kind of it, sothat it's whatever's being cast
off from it enters theatmosphere of Pern.
So it'll go between 40 and acouple hundred years between
that past, because it's anirregular orbit Like right
exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Like Pluto.
I want to say erratic.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
but it's not erratic, it's irregular.
That's the word.
Thank you.
And so the first pieces thatMcCaffrey wrote there were some
novellas that were published ina science fiction magazine
called Analog.
Those first pieces becameDragonflight, dragonquest and
the White Dragon, which was theone that you remember.
(11:10):
So that was a first trilogy,the first of which was published
in 68.
And we meet a woman who becomesa dragon rider.
And now the dragons also havesort of a hierarchical structure
.
They're different colors andthe different colors also align
with different sexes.
So the only female dragons aregold, who are queens, also
(11:30):
called queens, and blue, andthen there's also bronze, brown
and green.
Bronze, brown and green are allmale.
There is a phenomenon wherebythe and this happens to fire
lizards as well fire lizards anddragons are what's the word I'm
looking for Like kinetic, notjust not not just telekinetic,
(11:50):
but yes, they are, but actuallymore important to that is
telepathic.
Oh, okay.
So dragons have higher thoughtand language.
They don't speak with theirvoices, they have telepathic
connections.
They they call it impressing.
They impress on the firstcreature that feeds them after
(12:11):
their, after they're hatching.
So in the Harbor Hall trilogywith Menelie, which was my
introduction, menelieaccidentally impresses 12 fire
lizards because she happens tobe in a cave where they are
hatching during a thread stormand the babies, as they hatch,
(12:32):
go out to go find food becausethey're starving but thread is
falling and so she sees one ortwo go out and immediately die
because they can hit by thread.
So she's grabbing them as theycome out and feeding them and
accidentally impresses 12 firelizards, which may be why I have
too many pets now.
(12:52):
So the dragons impress on theperson that will be their rider
and it is very clear that thedragon chooses their rider.
Now they choose from a monkwho's in front of them, but they
choose.
It's not like Menelie where shegrabbed the fire lizard and put
chicken in its mouth.
It's the dragon speaks to I'mputting quotes around the word
(13:13):
speaks telepathic to the personthat they want to be their rider
.
And McCaffrey had somewhatrigid rules about the sex and
sexuality of the human thatcould impress the dragons of the
(13:34):
different colors.
So only heterosexual women.
And this is all cis, likeMcCaffrey didn't even
acknowledge the possibility ofgender queer folks which in 68
makes sense.
So only heterosexual women canimpress the gold, the queens,
and then only heterosexual menthe bronzes, and then only
(13:58):
homosexual men, the greens, thesmaller male dragons, the
smallest of the male dragons,and they do go down in size in
the order that I said.
And like McCaffrey was likevery specific and rigid about
this and then, like later in herlife in the existence of the
(14:19):
franchise, she sort of softeneda little bit and would be like
well, maybe like a butch ormasculine lesbian could impress.
It was when I was reading thisto prepare for today.
I was like whoa, I didn'tremember any of this and this is
like kind of freaking me out alittle bit.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Now that that gets to the reason why I was like I was
.
I was out and I was young Imean, I was 11 or 12 reading the
white dragon and the sex sceneis not just between the two
riders, their dragons are alsohaving sex at the same time,
exactly, and that was like Idon't, I can't, mmm, it just
(15:01):
weirded me out.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, yeah.
So that's actually preciselywhy she was so particular about
the sexuality of the riders.
Because because of thetelepathic link hey there, deep
Thinker, if you want to hear therest of my deep thoughts about
dragon sex, you'll have tobecome a patron and confirm your
(15:24):
place in the guy girl family.
Not only will you get access tomore and early deep thoughts,
you'll be helping make sure thissibling revelry can continue.
Find the link in the show notesand thanks.
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin MacLeod from
incompetechcom.
Find full music credits in theshow notes.
(15:45):
Until next time, remember, popculture is still culture.
And shouldn't you know what'sin your head?
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