April 16, 2024 • 59 mins
HEY YOU GUY(Girl)S!
On this week’s Deep Thoughts, Tracie revisits a classic of GenX childhood: The Electric Company. This children’s sketch comedy program with an all-star cast (Morgan Freeman! Rita Moreno! Bill Cosby?) showcased the wonderful ways that informal education can be intentional, subversive, funny, and validating. While not everything from The Electric Company has aged well (the Spell Binder relied on racist stereotypes about Arabs and did we mention Bill Cosby?), there is much to enjoy in this staple of 1970s television.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm Tracy Guy-Decker and you're listening to Deep
Thoughts About Stupid Shit,Because pop culture is still
culture, and shouldn't you knowwhat's in your head?
Today, I'll be sharing my deepthoughts about the 1970s
children's TV show, the ElectricCompany, with my sister, Emily
Guy-Burken, and with you.
Let's dive in.
Have you ever had something youlove dismissed because it's
(00:24):
just pop culture, what othersmight deem stupid shit?
You know matters, you know it'sworth talking and thinking
about, and so do we.
So come over, think with us aswe delve into our deep thoughts
about stupid shit.
Okay, Um, I know we watched ittogether, but it was a long time
(00:45):
ago.
So tell me what you remember,what you know about the electric
company.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Very little.
In fact, most of what Iremember about the electric
company is you telling the storythat you thought when they went
, hey, you guys, that they weretalking directly to us.
So I kind of vaguely rememberthat aspect of it.
I just did a quick lookup ofthe electric company last night,
knowing that we were going tobe talking about it, like I
(01:11):
didn't do much more than just aGoogle search, but just to kind
of remind myself of it, becauseI get it and 321 contact mixed
up.
Yeah, we're going to talk aboutthat a little bit and I think I
have like much strongermemories of 321 contact.
But the logo that was very 70s,very 70s, yeah, like that was
(01:32):
like oh yeah, yeah, I rememberthat, but I could not have
called it up without having seenit first.
Yeah, I know that MorganFreeman was on it.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Oh, you're stealing my thunder.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Did you know that before you looked it up?
No, no, no.
Well then, stop, it's supposedto be what you remember did a
reboot of the Electric Company?
Yes, they did a reboot, which Isaw an episode or two of when
(02:06):
my kids, like my kids, were theright age to watch the reboot,
and so I did a little bit oflike looking.
So, yes, I did know this beforelast night before looking it up
.
So I'm not stealing your thunder, you are, but that's okay.
So, with the way you said it,for some reason I got my yes, no
mixed up.
Anyway, it's early, I've onlyjust had my coffee, so I just
(02:28):
remember that as a fun fact.
That was like in my back pocketfor a little while and I feel
like there was music.
I feel like there were songsand music, yes, music, yes, and
(02:49):
I remember, when watching thereboot, being surprised at how
it was set up, because it justit, it was different from what I
expected it to be, based on myvery vague memories of the
original.
So so that's what I know.
Sorry to steal your thunder.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I still got it.
I still got one or two thingsup my sleeve, so I think we'll
be all right, Tell me, why arewe talking about this?
Yeah, so, as you say that likehey, you guys, has been a joke
of mine for years.
You know, like I'll tell peoplewhatever their last name is at
your house, I thought they said,hey, you insert your last name
(03:27):
and it always makes people laugh.
Well, Gen Xers, it makes GenXers laugh.
It does Like younger peopledon't know what the heck I'm
talking about.
Yeah, and it's just had thislike really kind of place of
affection and that's it Like, asyou say, I actually didn't
remember that much, but I I knewit was important to little baby
(03:50):
Tracy and, given the way thatour project has been evolving,
like those are some of thethings that I really want to
investigate, especially as a.
I mean, my kid is about to turn12, but thinking about some of
the media that she has consumedand like what is that doing in
her little brain has got methinking about you know when my
(04:13):
brain was little.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
One thing that I'm curious about when it comes to
things like the electric companyand then, like, we talked about
this with the Muppets, but whenwe were this little, our
parents had buy-in on what wewere watching, in a way, that's
like, even though, like you know, they were okay with us
watching Princess Bride andother things like that, but they
were more likely to have beenin the room yeah, not long after
(04:36):
dad passed away.
I talked about there.
I wish I knew how to get toknow him better, and this is
like the sort of thing where,like revisiting this, I can kind
of like think through what 30something dad was thinking while
watching this.
That's a great point.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, that's a great point, yeah, yeah.
So so that's kind of why Idecided to make it the topic of
of our conversation.
It's interesting what I did anddidn't find.
So I I'm going to talk a little.
I want to talk a little bitabout diversity and inclusion in
children, especially, for youknow, in children's television,
(05:17):
and the importance ofrepresentation, and I'm going to
talk about sort of attentionand holding kids attention and
about humor, and I'm sure otherthings will come up as we talk,
because they always do.
So that's kind of where I'mgoing.
So let me start with, like, whatthis thing was.
So it was actually theDepartment of Education asked
(05:38):
the people at Children'sTelevision Workshop, who are the
people who created SesameStreet, to help with kids who
had aged out of Sesame Streetbut still needed help with
literacy.
So there was a very specificlearning objective for this TV
show and apparently it was quitesuccessful by the ways that
(05:58):
they were able to measure, whichis pretty cool.
So, but what they did was kindof like Sesame Street.
It was a sketch show.
So we had a mix of live action,sketches and animation and a
few puppets not like SesameStreet, but there were a few
puppets and it was teachingthings like sort of letter
(06:19):
combinations and reading, andthere were some recurring
characters.
It did not have recurringcharacters, it did not have the.
It did not have this sort ofcentral conceit of sesame street
, of this like neighborhood andcharacters who were living their
lives.
Rather, it was these, uh, theset of recurring characters in
these different sketches andthey were a sketch comedy troupe
(06:40):
and that that was sort of whatwe got from them.
I don't have like a plot to giveyou listeners and in fact there
were some crazy number of umepisodes made that I had in my
head when we pressed record andnow I have lost 780 episodes.
There were 780 episodes of thisthing.
(07:01):
Oh, my goodness, I did not watchthe whole oeuvre in order to
prepare for today.
Wow, I'm not sure it all existsactually, at least to be
screened 30-minute show30-minute episodes and it aired
five days a week for five years.
No, five days a week for sixyears, six years, 71 through 77.
(07:26):
And so they canceled it.
And the commentary that I'veread that's like looking back on
it says it was canceled because, unlike Sesame Street that had
this merchandising opportunitythat allowed the children's
television workshop to actuallymake money on it, the electric
company really didn't have that.
So even though it wassuccessful by the sort of
learning objectives and measuresthat the doe had had asked them
(07:49):
to do, that it wasn'tprofitable in the way that
sesame street was able to beprofitable because we, you know,
we had big bird toys.
So that's why it got cancelled.
But but they actually decidedto like that final season, they
put in sort of syndication andit continued to air for many
(08:10):
years, which is how we wouldhave seen it, since it stopped
airing when I was one.
Yeah, yeah, and CTW, theChildren's Television Workshop,
also did 321, contact, which wasa science show, and they aired
it the same like in succession,and so that's why you get them
(08:31):
confused.
I think, and in my mind theywere kind of the same thing,
because when I sat down toresearch I was like but the
Bloodhound Gang was a part ofElectric Company and I loved the
Bloodhound Gang and then Ilooked it up, like no, it wasn't
, the Bloodhound Gang was a partof 321 Contact, which, by the
way, when I went and watched thetitle sequence for 321 Contact,
it was like going home.
Yeah, like all these cuts oflike there's a baby and there's
(08:53):
like a frog who needs to fly.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
The drop of water, the drop of water, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
The whole.
Thing.
I was just like oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Like I can call that up easily.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah, yeah, we.
I think that one we reallyreally loved.
I I even remember sort ofwatching it with Chris.
There's an episode of thebloodhound gang where, like, one
of the kids was Jewish andthere's like a thing about the
shofar like calling when you arein danger and anyway.
So, so some of the things that,like in this now 48-year-old
(09:28):
Tracy, like looking back to seewhat eight-year-old Tracy loved.
The thing, the hey you guys,which I recall as the start of
the credits, when I went and Ifound episode number one on
YouTube and it doesn't do thatand I was like but that's my key
memory.
Well, it turns out that thatphrase didn't happen until a
(09:53):
sketch in episode 19 of seasonone and it didn't actually
become a part of the titlesequence for a while after that.
But the thing that really blewmy mind about hey you Guys, it's
Rita Moreno.
She was part of the ensemble,as was Bill Cosby.
(10:16):
No, yes.
Oh, bill Cosby, morgan Freeman,rita Moreno, oh, oh bill cosby,
morgan freeman, rita morenothere, the other people on it
were joan was her name.
You would recognize her.
Uh, let me find her name.
Oh sorry, judy grobart, who youwould know if you saw lee
(10:39):
chamberlain and skip hennant, sothey'd all done repertory
theater before.
Initially bill cosby's namelike really surprised me, and
then I was like, but bill cosbywas actually involved in other
children's television like thealbert stuff exactly.
So he was actually that.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Once I thought about it, it didn't surprise me and
we're gonna have to have anepisode to talk about bill cosby
at some point yeah, just him byhimself, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
So when I think about the fact that it was rita
moreno's voice, and like she wasan I think she maybe was
already an oscar winner, I'm notsure, but like this very
accomplished, celebrated actress, where would I know her from?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
oh, um, well, I know the name, but I can't call up a
face.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Well, most recently she was in the reboot of One Day
at a Time.
She's a Puerto Rican actress.
She's Emmy, grammar, oscar andTony winner.
She was in Singing in the Rain.
She's an EGOT.
She was in Singing in the Rain.
She was in the King and I WestSide Story.
(11:44):
West Side Story is her famousone, that's okay, okay, okay
okay, and that's where she wonwon the oscar, okay, in 61.
So she was an oscar winner in71.
When she was on this, she wasin poppy carnal knowledge the
four seasons I like it, likethat Slums of Beverly Hills.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
She was in Steven Spielberg's remake of West Side
Story Okay, okay, she's a veryaccomplished actress and it's
her voice saying hey, you guys,okay, okay, which kind of blew
my mind, that's one of thosethings where like, uh, you said
the name and I was like I know,I know who that is, but I could
not tell you what she looks likeand or how I know her.
So thank you for that, becausethat was like you know how you
(12:29):
say Morgan Freeman andimmediately you hear the voice
of God.
I was thinking like I know Ishould hear her voice too in the
same way.
And then Lee Chamberlain, yousaid, was another one.
Yeah, that name sounds familiar, that's a she, right, a she-ly.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yes, okay, because I know Lee can be, yes, and I'm
looking up her discography, orwhatever that word is.
She had guest appearances onwhat's Happening in Different
Strokes NYPD Blue.
She is a stage actress.
Okay.
(13:07):
Most notably played OdalieHarris in roots the next
generation, okay.
Okay.
White shadow Brian's for beatstreet Viper the practice.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Okay, wow, so it sounds like these are all like I
morgan they were big.
He wasn't morgan freeman yes,but not like he went on to
become morgan freeman.
All capital letters, yes, butand then these all sound like
they're very accomplished actorsin on stage and screen.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Which is really cool.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Also, you were right about the music.
The guy who wrote the musicalso went on to be quite a
celebrated person.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
So this was not some fly-by-night undertaking.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
No.
No, and in fact, in theanimation.
Mel Brooks did some of thevoiceover in the animation, as
did Gene Wilder, and Zero Mostelalso did some of the voice
acting in the animation.
So it was really an all-starcast, and even the folks who
(14:21):
were not yet stars, like Freeman, went on to be quite, quite big
.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Yeah, well, and it sounds you had mentioned
something about diversity.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
I'm just thinking of, like, the names that you
mentioned and those that I knowit sounds it was very so in
terms of it was like thereweren't any Asian players who
were part of the main cast, butit wasn't like you know how
sometimes we'll especially, Ifeel, like kids stuff, it'll be
like a white girl, a white boyand like maybe one black
(14:53):
character.
It it changes which gender, butthis was like there was one
white dude in the main cast andotherwise there, so and then
Rita Morena is Latina, judy,whatever I said her name was
Grobar is a white woman, andthen there were two black men
(15:15):
and a black woman and that wasthe main cast, and so it wasn't
it.
It wasn't sort of like oh yeah,yeah, yeah, we need like the
diversity, hire, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
You know, it wasn't that at all.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
It wasn't an afterthought, mm-mm, and that
was really awesome in the likethe skits that I went to look
back at and also to your pointabout like trying to get to know
dad better, like these werecomedians and like sketch actors
, right and so, and they werewriting.
(15:46):
The writers were trying to makeit fun for themselves as well,
so, like one of so, morganFreeman.
One of Morgan Freeman'srecurring characters was Easy
Reader.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Like Easy Rider.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
And he's this like super hip, you know like 1970s
yeah hip black guy, you know,and the bell bottoms and the big
hair and the clashing patterns.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
I'm kind of remembering the bell bot, like
the bell bottoms and like, didhe wear his hair in an afro as
easy?
Speaker 1 (16:16):
yep, not huge, but not huge yes, but definitely
natural that that is striking achord.
Yeah, and just there was likethis little rhyme that my name's
easy, my name's easy reader.
He just can't help himself.
He has to read out loud.
It just makes him happy to read.
And then another recurringcharacter is a detective called
(16:40):
Fargo North comma decoder.
He decodes messages and um.
And then there was Jennifer ofthe jungle who, like, is
teaching Paul, who's a gorilla,she's teaching him to read.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Oh, so there was someone in a gorilla suit.
Yes, I remember the gorillasuit.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah.
So the hey you guys came fromanother recurring bit where Bill
Cosby is a milkman, like a milkdelivery man, and Rita Moreno
is Millie, his assistant, themilkman's assistant.
And so the very firstoccurrence which I watched on
YouTube of these characters,where the first time she says
hey you guys, she's like listen,do I have to get up so early?
(17:29):
It's four, 30 morning.
He's like, yeah, that's howmilk delivery works and they're
trying to figure out how manybottles to leave for this one
family.
And you know it's this sketchback and forth.
And she's like well, that'seasy.
And she like yells at the topof her lungs, like, hey, you
guys, how many?
You know whatever?
Like she's going to ask them,but it's four in the morning and
it's like it's just so, so,silly.
(17:51):
Yeah, it taps into that humorthat we have talked about before
, that Americans apparently love.
That's what we talked about inour Monty Python episode.
We've actually talked aboutthis a couple of times, about
this brand of humor that maybe,possibly, americans tend to
favor, which is one that allowsus, the viewer, to feel smarter
(18:13):
than the people in the jokewhich we see, like with we've
talked about, like with MrNoodle, who's on Elmo's World.
Damn it, mr Noodle.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
It's like it's a.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Sorry, yes, go ahead.
So this is a pretty common likehumor vein that we use with
children, Right Like where do weput our hats?
Do we put it in our hands?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
No, like that sort of a.
Thing.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
That's silly.
So it's that kind of humor withMillie the milkman's assistant,
but it's still charming, youknow, especially with these two
talented actors who are hammingit up, because that's what you
do in children's sketchtelevision and comedy, true,
true, two talented actors whoare hamming it up, because
(19:10):
that's what you do in children'ssketch television and comedy,
true, true.
So, going, looking back on it,it's hard to find one.
I mean like it's on youtube,but it's clearly like recorded
from someone's tv, like you cansee sort of the and and maybe I
could find I I'm sure I did notdo an exhaustive search they did
release it on DVD, or at leasthighlights, like 10 or 15 years
(19:30):
ago.
Maybe it was around the rebootor it was around some sort of
anniversary, because they alsointerviewed some of the original
cast members, including RitaMoreno.
Morgan Freeman and Bill Cosbywere not on that dvd as far as I
could tell, and some of themusic actually has been
apparently released online.
(19:51):
So what was really fun aboutthis?
Looking back on it, in additionto the all-star cast, with some
of the, there's a.
There was a repeating sketchwhere marvel lent spider-man to
this show, really, yeah, so, andpart of the whole, the sort of
(20:12):
reading gig, was that spider-mandoesn't.
You don't hear him, you see hisvoice.
So it's kind of this mix ofanimation and live action but
framed by as if you're lookingat a panel in a comic, okay, and
so as the viewer, you're forcedto kind of read Spidey's voice,
(20:37):
which so the kids are reading.
Kids watching this are readingwithout maybe even realizing
that they're reading, which ispart of the point.
That is brilliant.
Chuck Jones actually did someRoadrunner and Coyote cartoons
for the electric company.
Yeah, similarly like with thesigns and stuff.
(20:58):
So there was reading, becausethey're not.
You know, the Roadrunner andWile and Wiley coyote don't ever
talk out loud except to saymeet me, so seeing sort of those
other big brands, not justthose two, but also the voice
actors, you know Mel Brooks andGene Wilder, who were stars in
(21:19):
their own right in the in the70s.
I don't know why it wassurprising, because even today
we see big stars on SesameStreet still, or big music names
who recorded stuff for Yo GabbaGabba, for instance, or other
(21:39):
kids' shows.
It's a thing that we stillhappening.
So I don't know if it's becauseit was like from my childhood
and I don't remember it, butsomething about seeing these
like big name brands Spider-Man,chuck Jones, um Wile E Coyote
and the Roadrunner and you knowsome of the big voice actors in
(22:00):
this show it like warmed myheart in a way that I did not
anticipate, and I think part ofthat is it does the same when I
see it today.
It's just not for me anymore.
But something about thebuilders of culture, the
(22:21):
carriers of culture kind ofCulture, the carriers of culture
kind of I don't want to sayelevating, because that's the
wrong word, but validating, Iguess, is the word feels aligned
(22:44):
with what we're doing with,with deep thoughts, in a way
that just like, really like,gave me the warm fuzzies.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
It also strikes me as part of what dad would have
liked about this.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
In part because like so I don't know if that was
innovative, it may have been.
I don't like because SesameStreet was very innovative
because they didn't haveprogramming for children and
like Mr Rogers and his speakingbefore Senate about public
television and the importance itbrings to educating children,
(23:24):
you know that was all relativelynew in the seventies.
And so the idea of makers oflike straight pop culture I
don't know what else to call it,but like just general pop
culture, mainstream, mainstreamthank you Mainstream pop culture
coming together for education.
(23:44):
There's something reallyimpressive about that.
And I'm also thinking, sinceMarvel owned Spider-Man and you
know about the weirdness withSpider-Man versus Marvel and
Sony owned Spider-Man but notthe rest of Marvel.
Do you know about all of that?
No, oh, it's this bizarre thing.
So Marvel wasn't doing well inlike late 90s, early 2000s I
(24:07):
think, and so Sony boughtSpider-Man, the rights to
Spider-Man, but not the rest ofthe MCU.
Well, it's not CU.
The MEU, the Marvel ExtendedUniverse, because they're like
nobody cares about any of theother characters.
The marvel extended universe,because they're like nobody
cares about any of the othercharacters.
And I may have it backwards, itmight be that sony now owns the
(24:28):
meu and not spider-man, but inany case, that seems unlikely.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
yeah, I think it's, I think it's that way.
Marvel definitely owns likeblack panther.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, so yeah, that's what
it is.
So sony bought spider-man, justspider-man.
They are now kicking themselves, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
But that also, although it took the people, the
minds at Marvel, to create theAbsolutely yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
And there is some like very odd, like legal issues
that they go into with any kindof.
And then when Disney boughtMarvel, that's what I was
thinking of Disney now owns.
Marvel, oh yes, but Sony ownsSpider-Man and so like there's
some weirdness there and so theyhave to deal with rights and
(25:14):
legal issues and it sounds likeeither a legal nightmare or some
law nerds like just wet dream.
Like oh yeah, I get to diveinto this, like who owns what
and what can you use?
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Anyway, that strikes me as I don't know that you'd be
able to do something like that.
Yeah, I don't know that you'dbe able to do something like
that.
Yeah, I don't know.
Like, if today the peoplebehind Black Panther wanted to
lend Black Panther to achildren's educational show, the
amount of paperwork and redtape you'd have to go through
(25:54):
with Disney to do that seemslike it just wouldn't happen.
It would just be like it's justnot worth the mountain of
paperwork.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah, and money and money.
Yeah, that seems like it justwouldn't happen.
It would just be like it's justnot worth the mountain of
paperwork.
Yeah, and money and money.
Yeah, yeah, right, because soin 72 or whenever it was, that
they first started doing it.
I believe it was a promotionalthing for the folks who owned
Spider-Man at the time, and I'msure there was some genuine
altruism in it as well.
(26:21):
Yeah, yeah, okay.
So so those are some of thethings that I discovered.
So I also was pleased, thoughthere it's the seventies, and so
some of the women's costumeswere.
Their skirts were short, extrashort to the end, like they were
(26:44):
very short skirts, I'm.
They were like Jennifer thejungle is wearing like a what's
meant to be like a skin, youknow, like a animal skin dress.
Now she is also wearing tightsbecause I um, but so it was like
well, it was the seventies, andat the same time, like there
are several skits that I watched, you know, in my just quick
(27:06):
sort of spot sampling, whereRita Moreno is playing Like
there's one where she plays adirector, like a film director,
and she's wearing, you know,like trousers and like a beret,
you, you know, and like justsort of masculine coded clothing
.
Another where she's that episodethey were looking at the ue
(27:29):
sound and she's looking for herpool cue and again is dressed
very sort of masculine coded.
So we had the very short skirts, but that wasn't like a uniform
, which was the only way thatthe female cast was to appear on
screen.
So that was refreshing and Iwas pleasantly surprised.
(27:53):
I was pleasantly surprised bythat.
Now, while we're talking aboutdiversity, though, I mentioned
that Zero Mostel shows up as avoice character.
He was the.
In this animation, thisrepeated animation, there was a
character called the Letterman,who was wearing by zero mostel
and was definitely coded to bearab and has been criticized as
(28:26):
sort of insensitive at bestinsensitive and, and you know,
contributing to racialstereotypes against arabs.
So it it wasn't.
I don't want to, I don't wantto suggest that it was perfect.
Yeah, yeah, oh, another bigname Joan Rivers.
I totally forgot.
Joan Rivers was in that samebiscuit with the Letterman.
(28:49):
Wow, june Wilder, joan Rivers,zero Mustel, wow, yeah, so I
don't want to suggest that itwas perfect and it was
progressive.
It was truly progressive.
As far as I can tell, therewere no gay characters, whether
(29:10):
open or not, so that was missing, but it was the 70s and so that
actually makes a lot of senseto me.
Yeah, well.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
I mean, three's Company was considered
progressive by having JohnRitter pretend to be gay.
Yeah, which is so Gross.
Yeah, it's so gross and onlylike.
The only reason it's you caneven like watch it now is
because John Ritter is socharming.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
It's funny to me, like I remember thinking how Mr
Roper was, like, so old.
It's funny to me I rememberthinking how Mr Roper was so old
Somebody recently pointed outhe was 53 years old when the
show started, which is fiveyears from where I am right now.
I'm like, oh my God, he wasancient when we were kids.
It's amazing how things change.
I digress, I digress.
(29:59):
So, in terms of diversity andinclusion, there was no sexual
orientation diversity, at leastnot openly so.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
That being something that is included in children's
television, I mean, is stillbeing fought right now.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Agreed, yeah, still being fought right now.
Agreed, yeah, so yeah, yeah,and I think about sort of what
their learning objectives were,why, like, why they existed,
their reason for being, and I'mso glad that actually you know
that they had the racialdiversity, that they did it just
it feels really good and evenlike the original.
So the song stay the same forthe title sequence, but prior in
(30:45):
the very first episode.
If you go on, if you go ontoyoutube and you search it up,
you can find the very firstepisode and it opens with this
sequence where each of theplayers kind of comes in and
says hello and greets the otherone in different ways, in sort
of a sing-songy kind of a rhythm, but in ways like the dialect,
(31:08):
if you will, like the affectthat they use.
There are it's not middleamerica, hello, how are you?
You know, it's like, hey, howyou doing, like, how you doing,
like how you been, and they'reall and there's a bit of their
natural accent, if you will.
(31:28):
That comes through in that,which feels really powerful when
we think about representationfor kids who are in that sort of
7 to 10 range, who've outgrownSesame Street, having trouble
reading to see people who lookand sound like the people around
(31:49):
them and like themselves makesit all the easier for this
informal education to work, andI find that also like really
powerful.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
And I find that also like really powerful.
I'm also thinking just the factthat Spider-Man was part of
this and you know, yes, you'reright, it's promotional, like
that.
You know I wasn't thinking that, you know, I was just like, oh,
how kind.
But this was, and we were kindof raised with the idea that,
like, comic books aren't realreading, yeah, but this also
(32:22):
opens it up to like, hey, you'rereading, when you're reading
Spider-Man comic books and likeencouraging kids to go, like you
know, read more about yourfriendly neighborhood Spider-Man
, you know, go get, go get acomic book.
It's reading.
Yeah, it's fabulous, yeah,Fabulous, and it feels
progressive.
Because even when I wasteaching which was from 2006 to
(32:43):
2010, I had colleagues who werelike it's not real reading if
they're reading a graphic novelor a comic book and it's just
like why, why is that not realreading?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
It makes sense too that this television show would
feel that way, because part ofyour point earlier when you're
talking about how this was kindof progressive and thinking
about Mr Rogers going before theSenate and just kind of
convincing the broader culturethat this informal education is
valuable and worthwhile, thewhole notion of informal
education as a thing that we didintentionally is relatively new
and it makes sense that itfollowed television or, in this
case, is following television.
I mean, what we do in museumsis informal education, this
(33:45):
reified, rarefied kind ofinformal education that also in
that field has had to kind ofbring some folks forward who had
snobbery about what museums areand do.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Yeah, it's interesting, like I love the
informal education.
You know, of course, I've heardthat term before, but just
thinking about it right now, wethink informal and we think not
intentional.
And it's this is just kind of aside effect, a product of
(34:23):
conversation with them, or whatmovies I show them and stuff
like that, but taking the reinsand saying like no, no, no, let
us be intentional about thisinformal education, let us make
sure that we are makingdecisions about what they are
taking in, which is exactly whatwe're talking about in this
whole podcast for millions ofstudents.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
As a bolster to their formal education.
It feels so important andpowerful and also I almost and
(35:09):
this may be me projecting ormisjudging, but it almost feels
like we've forgotten as aculture, we've forgotten what
the Department of Education knewin 1970.
And part of that is thepreponderance of media.
In 1971, when the first episodeof Electric Company aired, we
(35:31):
only had five channels and youwatched what was being broadcast
.
Yeah, so that has changedcompletely.
That has changed completely,you know.
And so, even if the mostwonderful informal education
media is being produced, thenumber of people it can reach is
both exponentially larger andexponentially smaller, depending
(35:56):
on your marketing budget, whichwas not the case in 1971.
And so I think my sense thatwe've forgotten is un-nuanced,
but maybe not wrong.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
There's also I mean, that is definitely an aspect of
it, having worked in educationthere is also, like the, the
shifting winds of what educationis willing to do, and so some
of it is like you remember, ourelementary school had all those
weird open classrooms and it wasbecause it was built during a
(36:32):
time where they're likecollaboration among classrooms
and then you know they realizedthis does not work and they had
to put up these like temporarywalls.
Yeah, and so so you get thesependulum shifts that are very
political in some ways, and inparticular in the past 20 years,
we have, like the no child leftbehind, which focuses on
(36:59):
metrics to a degree that isactively harmful, because,
instead of the squidgy, informaleducation is boosting, and all
of that Even though, as you said, the electric company met its
targets in terms of what itwanted to do with education.
(37:19):
If you can't put it on aScantron and judge whether or
not a teacher should be firedbased on it, people haven't been
interested in the last 20 years, or?
Speaker 1 (37:29):
merchandise it.
Yes, Right.
So they didn't have additionalfunding from the federal sources
because that whatever it washad run out right.
And they didn't have additionalfunding from capitalism because
there were no dolls to sell oraction figures to sell.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Or even books like Monster at the End of this Book,
because that came out in the70s.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yeah, you're right.
It also speaks to my sense thatwe've forgotten, speaks to what
it is that we as a culture havedecided to value.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Yes, and funding for education programs.
This is not something I haveany kind of exhaustive knowledge
on, or even more than middlingknowledge on, but you know,
funding for like thiseducational program in the
seventies is one thing, and thenat the in 1980, ronald Reagan
(38:29):
is elected, and so that's verylike there's a very different
vibe about what government isfor you know, like he was the
one who said the worst.
The scariest words in theEnglish language is we're here
from the government, we're hereto help.
And so like the idea, likethat's very bootstrappy time of
(38:49):
American life, and so, even whenthe pendulum swings backward,
and then like it's very unusualfor the same party candidate to
win after a two-term president,so the fact that HW won the
presidency and he had been vicepresident and he was in a lot of
(39:11):
ways, poised, but that's veryunusual for that to happen.
So, just thinking the politicsof what Americans, if you stop
them in the street, said thatthey wanted, we're not
necessarily going to supportwhat you want to make a comedy
(39:31):
show for children to help themread Are you kidding me?
No, yeah, like there's apothole on my street.
Or you know, like we need tosecure our borders.
Or you know, or like can youput that in the schools for
people who are even, like, notaverse to spending money on
education?
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Right, right, right.
So I'm trying to decide if Iactually want to put 321 Contact
on our list, to look at itseparately.
Part of me feels like thisactually wasn't sufficient,
because I'm not sure what elseI'm going to have to say about
it, but I'm taking note of theway that public television in
(40:14):
particular I'm using theElectric Company as a stand in
there but, Mr Rogers, theElectric company and 321 contact
together like all in a row, washow we received these.
Now we're a little bit youngeron the Gen X, in the Gen X
generation, like you're right atthe end and I'm kind of at the
tail end.
So I think some of our old,older members of our generation
(40:38):
probably didn't have to bereminded, for instance, that it
was Rita Moreno, that MorganFreeman was in it.
In fact, I was reading up fortoday and somebody who was
interviewing Freeman sometime inthe past 15 years and asking if
people still recognize him asEasy Reader, and the journalist
(41:00):
said that he got a glint in hiseye and said they all have gray
hair now.
But yeah, those are some of myfavorites which I thought was
pretty adorable.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
That is adorable.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
So they don't need to be reminded of that and and and
and.
I think we see that too inculture.
Like if we think about a lot ofpeople know, hey, you guys from
the Goonies, but the Goonieshad it because of the electric
company, right, like thatcharacter had been locked in a
room with a TV for his wholelife and so hey you guys was one
of his phrases.
Like this show was a touchstonefor Gen Xers, as was Mr Rogers'
(41:42):
Neighborhood and 321 Contactand Sesame Street when we were
younger.
Like the idea that televisionwould help support our literacy,
our math literacy and science,with 321 Contact, our emotional
literacy with science, with 321contact, our emotional literacy
(42:03):
with mr rogers.
Like I don't think that as aculture we still hold tv to that
kind of uh I don't knowresponsibility.
It still has thatresponsibility.
We just have stoppedrecognizing it.
(42:25):
And maybe I'm speaking only formyself, but I don't think so.
I feel like I mean, that's evenwhy we named this podcast, what
we did, because we sort of wetreat it as if it's throwaway
and this group of creators inthe 70s didn't, and I don't know
(42:46):
.
That's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
It's interesting because part of what's going on
today is there are so, so, somany more sources of
entertainment.
Right, so many more sources ofentertainment.
So recently, when my kids weremuch littler, we had a rule they
could watch YouTube only onSaturday mornings and that was
(43:11):
our way to be able to get tosleep in, and we had like
parental like things on YouTube.
But I'm very uncomfortable withYouTube because it can like
radicalize people.
It's just their algorithm isawful.
And then I am reminded when Iwas in college I remember
talking to a friend aboutsomeone watching TV and I was
like I know I can't speak.
I can't talk because I lovemovies.
(43:32):
And my friend was like, yeah,but movies end, tv just keeps
going, like you never have toturn off the TV if you don't
want to.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Whereas a movie.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
when it's over it's over, and you have to make the
decision to start a new one.
And now it's even more so now.
I mean, that was when you hadto get a DVD to watch a movie,
and so that's my issue withYouTube is it is never ending.
So as the kids have grown, theyhave found particularly my
(44:07):
youngest has found ways to watchYouTube without watching
YouTube.
He's found other streamers andthings like that and it's like
I'll overhear what he'slistening to or what he's
watching, and it's just junk,basically.
And so I recently made a rule.
I was like we're going back tono YouTube except on Saturday
mornings.
And he's really upset at me andI was just like he's like, but
I can, you're going to let mewatch other stuff.
(44:28):
And I was like even like theNickelodeon sitcoms, which I
can't stand because they areregressive and like bad, badly
written, badly acted, and likebad, badly written, badly acted.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Yeah, really really weird sexual and racial politics
and they lean on weirdstereotypes.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Yeah, so like I hate them.
But what I told him is likeeven these are more nutritious
and that's the way I use it thanthis YouTube stuff where
they're just they're playingvideo games and they're
screaming at each other andthey're making edgelord meme
jokes and saying stuff that I'mlike I don't want my 10 year old
knowing.
And I said they are morenutritious because you're at
(45:10):
least learning story structure.
Yeah, you know, a 30 minutesitcom has almost perfect story
structure, with incitingincident, rising action, climax,
demon.
So you are actually learningsomething with that, whereas all
you're learning is how to benasty to people and think it's
funny by watching this.
And I said like, and you knowwhat that's like a candy bar.
(45:32):
I am okay with you having acandy bar once a week, but you
have to eat something that hassome nutrition the rest of the
week.
And that's how I feel aboutentertainment that is
intentionally produced, andthat's the way that I put it.
I was like you need to bewatching something that somebody
wrote Because he's like, well,what if I do this?
What if I do this?
I'm like it has to be somethingthat somebody wrote ahead of
(45:53):
time that there are multiplepeople making who are creators
of different types.
So, like you know, someone hasto have edited it, someone has
to have written it ahead of time.
There needs to be multipleactors, or or at least one actor
, and, like I know, youtubestreamers and and and Twitch
streamers they have, they haveeditors and stuff like that and
they do all that, but it's stilljust like there needs to be
(46:14):
intention behind it.
Yeah, and so and this isreminding me of why I, I, I drew
that rule- yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Well, we actually ended up having a lot more to
say about the lecture companythan I thought we might hit
record today, so let me see if Ican reflect it back a little
bit.
So this 1970s kids comedysketch that was asked for from
the department of education bythe children's television
workshop to help kids who in thesecond grade, specifically like
(46:47):
that age, who were havingtrouble reading, and it worked,
and it worked and it broughttogether a very talented group
of people rita moreno, morganfreeman, judy grob.
We had Bill Cosby long beforewe knew what a parasite.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
He's a shit.
He is.
He's a talented man, but he isa horrible human being In 1970s.
Did not know that at the timeLee Chamberlain, skip Hennant.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
We also had Jim Boyd as a voice actor and notably we
had Mel Brooks, gene Wilder,Joan Rivers and Zero Mostel as
voice talent in animation.
This show was for kids but usedlike really funny, interesting
(47:46):
wordplay and and some physicalhumor as well that would have
appealed to the moms and dads inthe room who were watching,
including probably our dad.
Like Fargo North comma decoderputs his mustache on when he,
before he answers the phone,fargo North decoder uh, puts the
(48:06):
, hangs up the phone and takesthe mustache back off, which I
know dad would have loved.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
That would have tickled him so much.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
I just know he loved that when he saw that, cause he
probably saw it.
Yeah, so, um.
So some of the things that wenoted was the value of the
representation in terms ofdiversity, not as an
afterthought, not as like asingle diversity hire so we
could say, oh look, we're not anall white cast, but a genuinely
diverse cast in terms of raceand mix of men and women.
(48:38):
Not a lot of sexual orientationdiversity, which makes sense
given the pressures of theculture in the 70s and today.
When talking about children'sentertainment, we also noted
that thinking about treatinginformal education with
intention is a thing that works.
(49:01):
The metrics were there in termsof the kids who are exposed to
the electric company doingbetter with their literacy, and
it is not something, apparently,that our culture values,
because the show was canceleddue to lack of funding and lack
of opportunities formerchandising.
Some of the things that we'venoticed that are different from
(49:23):
the 70s to today are the sheervolume of media and the ways in
which we consume media, so thatit is both easier and harder to
reach people today.
But for creators it's easierinsofar as like it doesn't take
(49:43):
a huge startup cost to just getout there on the interwebs, and
harder because to actually reachmore than three people, you
need money to spend onadvertising, as we well know.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
I was going to say it's like it's not like we know
anything about that.
Hey, tell your friends aboutthis podcast.
Please, Please, Seriously.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
We want to keep doing it and while the diversity was
great and progressive I mean,even by today's standards, I
think it would be consideredprogressive it wasn't perfect.
We did have Zero Mostel playingan evil bad guy, the
Spellbinder, which contributedto anti-Arab stereotyping, the
(50:26):
power of this TV show and theinfluence on Gen Xers.
We are a smaller generation interms of the number of us
compared to the generationbefore and the generations after
, and a huge percentage of uswere influenced and affected by
this TV show, as evidenced bythe Goonies and the character
(50:48):
who yells hey, you guys.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
Which some younger millennials might think that's
where that phrase originated,when in fact it was from that
character being influenced bythe electric company, you know
it's interesting, I feel like,cause there's a lot of online
discussion about likemillennials versus boomers, and
now they're talking about Gen Zand Gen Alpha, and oftentimes
(51:13):
Gen X is like forgotten.
Yeah, it's just not evenmentioned.
It's just not even mentioned.
And it feels to me like theelectric company is a is kind of
like a micro example of that,in that people just kind of
don't think about it, theyforget about it.
But if you mentioned it, likeoh yeah, that was a thing, and
so in the same way, like youknow, what are millennials and
(51:36):
boomers thinking about stuff,and they're like you know,
there's a whole generation.
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
Those Lachkey kids.
That was a thing.
That was a.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
thing to do with the fact that, even though Gen X are
currently in the age range tobe in charge of the world, we
still generally aren't.
We're not, yeah, because, inpart because boomers were such a
big generation, but like wetalk about how old politicians
(52:08):
are, but that's also true oflike CEOs and other stuff.
Like you know, we just were.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
They're living longer and retiring later.
Yes, Thanks, boomers Thanksboomers.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
But that also kind of fits with the.
I talked about this when wetalked about Reality Bites, the
Gen X view of the world, whichis kind of like you know what
we're happy to like?
Get home, make ourselves someTestino pizza rolls and let you
all fight it out.
We'll sit back and look cool.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
Or try, or try to anyway.
Yeah, I don't know if wesucceed, but yeah, anything else
that I missed in terms ofhighlights about Electric
Company.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
No, I do.
I'm now wanting to kind of goback and look at some of the
skits.
I'm now wanting to kind of goback and look at some of the
skits just because, as Imentioned, like one of the ways
that I try to get to know dadbetter is think about the media
that I know or suspect he wouldhave consumed like I did this.
He couldn't have seen it, butwhen I watched nope, like the
person I most wanted to talkabout it with was dad, because
(53:07):
it had so many.
Yeah, he would have loved thatmovie.
Yeah he would have loved thatmovie like the thing is, or he
would have hated it no, I don'tthink for the same reason he
would have loved it because,like children in danger oh yes,
you're right, that piece of itwould have bothered him it would
have really bothered him, butit was in backstory, so I think
he's like you in that case,except when the the entire
(53:29):
audience is sucked upoh so, um, so yeah, it's like
and that, but him hating itwould have been because it's.
It touches all of the thingsthat he cares about too.
Yeah, yeah so and so likethat's.
That's one of the things, likethinking about how he would have
been like oh, this isdelightful.
(53:50):
This is something I can sit andwatch with my six-year-old and
nine-year-old daughter and alsoenjoy myself.
Like this is not me wanting totake a hammer to the never
ending story.
Right, Right, Right yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
Yeah for sure.
And like the music was fun andthat like one of the recurring
things that actually, once I sawit, I was like, oh yeah, it's
like two people facing eachother in silhouette and the one
says the start of the word, blah, yes, ooh, blah, ankh, blah,
and they say like the two partsof the word and then they say
(54:24):
the word together.
Oh my gosh, they do thatregularly.
I remember that Blah, ooh, thatblue, blue, um, and like that.
It's such a weird little thing.
But like the moment it startedI was like, oh, this thing I
remember.
Yeah, anyway, that's prettymuch how the electric company
(54:47):
went.
And and three, two, one contact, two.
When I went to I I started torewatch Although I rewatched
this one and the one kid goes toa pig farm, like a swine farm,
and he's like in with the pigs.
Well, first like little pigletsand then like older pigs, and
they're like these guys areready to go to the
slaughterhouse In fact, we gotsome chops on the grill, let's
go and I was like, oh my God.
(55:07):
It's going to be sick?
Well, like stand there lookingat pigs and then go eat pork
what is when you go eat theirfriend?
Speaker 2 (55:20):
oh, I know, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
I'm not squeamish like you are about, uh, about
meat even if you're notsqueamish about meat in general,
to actually stand there.
But that heading an animal andthen, like, walk 10 feet and eat
flesh from the same kind ofanimal.
Yeah, I guess I'm soft, I don'tknow.
Well, no, that's you know what.
If this is soft, I don't wantto be hard.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
It makes me, it makes me glad I like I do not eat
pork products because I keepkosher ish and uh like, one of
the reasons why I'm kind of gladthat I do that is because, like
pigs are charming animals, Likethey're very bright.
And they can be sweet.
Speaker 1 (55:59):
Yeah, so anyway.
Wow, we really went afar.
Sorry, I didn't mean to take usthere, okay, so next time, I
think it's your- turn.
Speaker 2 (56:07):
Yeah, it is my turn.
Yes, and so next time I will bebringing you my deep thoughts
on the 1980 film the Shining ohoh, yes, cool.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
You know, I didn't actually see that until the past
20 years, so I actually I don'tthink I saw it as a child
either.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
I think I was late teens I have a lot of thoughts
about gender, misogyny and theplace of horror.
We talked a little bit abouthow I feel about feminist horror
and things like that, and thenalso the making of that film.
I think there's some reallyinteresting stuff to think about
(56:48):
in terms of gender and misogyny, in terms of making it, not
just what's on screen Cool.
So yeah, I'm excited to talkabout it.
Speaker 1 (56:56):
I feel like there's some opportunity to talk about
race a little bit in that filmtoo.
Speaker 2 (56:59):
Oh, absolutely, yes, yes, the Scatman Carruthers gets
done dirty.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
Yeah, the man who shines, yeah, yeah, actually, I
remember dad saying for a manwho shines, he's not too bright.
Oh really, I don't rememberthat.
I think we watched it together,dad and I did.
Anyway, cool and listenercomments?
Let me check.
No, I have one.
One of our patrons actuallycommented on our reality bites
(57:26):
episode.
She said Alison said I wasabout to graduate from college
in the spring of 94 when I sawthis movie, so I related to the
character situations pretty well.
However, I was definitelyanti-Laney when Vicky says to
her I can get you a job at theGap, and she put on a total look
of disgust and said I am notworking at the Gap and instead
(57:47):
use the gas card.
I was done with her.
Maybe she wasn't lazy per se,but she came off as entitled and
arrogant to me.
But perhaps I just knew toomany people like that Smiley
face emoji.
Alison also then commented OMG,I had no idea that reality
bites the term meant anythingother than reality sucks in the
context of this film.
Speaker 2 (58:09):
You know it's interesting.
I always thought of that as nota plot hole, but like when
Lainey responds like I'm notworking at the gap, it was ugly.
Like that's an ugly moment Iremember many, many times, since
once she's starting to like,apply it like the wiener hut,
yeah, why does she go back toVicky and say like I was wrong?
Speaker 1 (58:29):
I'm sorry.
I know they're living together.
They're best friends.
Why didn't you say I was wrong?
If it's the offer still stands,I'll work at the cap.
Yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know.
Anyway, thanks, alison andlistener, if you want to share
your deep thoughts to our deepthoughts or to anything that
we've talked about, please shareit with us.
You might end up mentioned hereon the air.
(58:52):
You can reach us atguygirlsmedia at gmailcom or on
our website, guygirlsmediacom,where you can sign up to receive
our weekly emails.
They're pretty cool.
They are pretty cool Seriously.
Or find us on socials.
We're both in many of theplaces under our own name or
under Guy Girls Media.
(59:13):
Until then, see you next time.
Do you like stickers?
Sure, we all do.
If you head over toguygirlsmediacom, slash, sign up
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Thanks for listening.
(59:33):
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin MacLeod from
incompetechcom.
Find full music credits in theshow notes.
Until next time, remember, popculture is still culture, and
shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
I'm Tracy Guy-Decker and you're listening to Deep
Thoughts About Stupid Shit,Because pop culture is still
culture, and shouldn't you knowwhat's in your head?
Today, I'll be sharing my deepthoughts about the 1970s
children's TV show, the ElectricCompany, with my sister, Emily
Guy-Burken, and with you.
Let's dive in.
Have you ever had something youlove dismissed because it's
(00:24):
just pop culture, what othersmight deem stupid shit?
You know matters, you know it'sworth talking and thinking
about, and so do we.
So come over, think with us aswe delve into our deep thoughts
about stupid shit.
Okay, Um, I know we watched ittogether, but it was a long time
(00:45):
ago.
So tell me what you remember,what you know about the electric
company.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Very little.
In fact, most of what Iremember about the electric
company is you telling the storythat you thought when they went
, hey, you guys, that they weretalking directly to us.
So I kind of vaguely rememberthat aspect of it.
I just did a quick lookup ofthe electric company last night,
knowing that we were going tobe talking about it, like I
(01:11):
didn't do much more than just aGoogle search, but just to kind
of remind myself of it, becauseI get it and 321 contact mixed
up.
Yeah, we're going to talk aboutthat a little bit and I think I
have like much strongermemories of 321 contact.
But the logo that was very 70s,very 70s, yeah, like that was
(01:32):
like oh yeah, yeah, I rememberthat, but I could not have
called it up without having seenit first.
Yeah, I know that MorganFreeman was on it.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Oh, you're stealing my thunder.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Did you know that before you looked it up?
No, no, no.
Well then, stop, it's supposedto be what you remember did a
reboot of the Electric Company?
Yes, they did a reboot, which Isaw an episode or two of when
(02:06):
my kids, like my kids, were theright age to watch the reboot,
and so I did a little bit oflike looking.
So, yes, I did know this beforelast night before looking it up
.
So I'm not stealing your thunder, you are, but that's okay.
So, with the way you said it,for some reason I got my yes, no
mixed up.
Anyway, it's early, I've onlyjust had my coffee, so I just
(02:28):
remember that as a fun fact.
That was like in my back pocketfor a little while and I feel
like there was music.
I feel like there were songsand music, yes, music, yes, and
(02:49):
I remember, when watching thereboot, being surprised at how
it was set up, because it justit, it was different from what I
expected it to be, based on myvery vague memories of the
original.
So so that's what I know.
Sorry to steal your thunder.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I still got it.
I still got one or two thingsup my sleeve, so I think we'll
be all right, Tell me, why arewe talking about this?
Yeah, so, as you say that likehey, you guys, has been a joke
of mine for years.
You know, like I'll tell peoplewhatever their last name is at
your house, I thought they said,hey, you insert your last name
(03:27):
and it always makes people laugh.
Well, Gen Xers, it makes GenXers laugh.
It does Like younger peopledon't know what the heck I'm
talking about.
Yeah, and it's just had thislike really kind of place of
affection and that's it Like, asyou say, I actually didn't
remember that much, but I I knewit was important to little baby
(03:50):
Tracy and, given the way thatour project has been evolving,
like those are some of thethings that I really want to
investigate, especially as a.
I mean, my kid is about to turn12, but thinking about some of
the media that she has consumedand like what is that doing in
her little brain has got methinking about you know when my
(04:13):
brain was little.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
One thing that I'm curious about when it comes to
things like the electric companyand then, like, we talked about
this with the Muppets, but whenwe were this little, our
parents had buy-in on what wewere watching, in a way, that's
like, even though, like you know, they were okay with us
watching Princess Bride andother things like that, but they
were more likely to have beenin the room yeah, not long after
(04:36):
dad passed away.
I talked about there.
I wish I knew how to get toknow him better, and this is
like the sort of thing where,like revisiting this, I can kind
of like think through what 30something dad was thinking while
watching this.
That's a great point.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, that's a great point, yeah, yeah.
So so that's kind of why Idecided to make it the topic of
of our conversation.
It's interesting what I did anddidn't find.
So I I'm going to talk a little.
I want to talk a little bitabout diversity and inclusion in
children, especially, for youknow, in children's television,
(05:17):
and the importance ofrepresentation, and I'm going to
talk about sort of attentionand holding kids attention and
about humor, and I'm sure otherthings will come up as we talk,
because they always do.
So that's kind of where I'mgoing.
So let me start with, like, whatthis thing was.
So it was actually theDepartment of Education asked
(05:38):
the people at Children'sTelevision Workshop, who are the
people who created SesameStreet, to help with kids who
had aged out of Sesame Streetbut still needed help with
literacy.
So there was a very specificlearning objective for this TV
show and apparently it was quitesuccessful by the ways that
(05:58):
they were able to measure, whichis pretty cool.
So, but what they did was kindof like Sesame Street.
It was a sketch show.
So we had a mix of live action,sketches and animation and a
few puppets not like SesameStreet, but there were a few
puppets and it was teachingthings like sort of letter
(06:19):
combinations and reading, andthere were some recurring
characters.
It did not have recurringcharacters, it did not have the.
It did not have this sort ofcentral conceit of sesame street
, of this like neighborhood andcharacters who were living their
lives.
Rather, it was these, uh, theset of recurring characters in
these different sketches andthey were a sketch comedy troupe
(06:40):
and that that was sort of whatwe got from them.
I don't have like a plot to giveyou listeners and in fact there
were some crazy number of umepisodes made that I had in my
head when we pressed record andnow I have lost 780 episodes.
There were 780 episodes of thisthing.
(07:01):
Oh, my goodness, I did not watchthe whole oeuvre in order to
prepare for today.
Wow, I'm not sure it all existsactually, at least to be
screened 30-minute show30-minute episodes and it aired
five days a week for five years.
No, five days a week for sixyears, six years, 71 through 77.
(07:26):
And so they canceled it.
And the commentary that I'veread that's like looking back on
it says it was canceled because, unlike Sesame Street that had
this merchandising opportunitythat allowed the children's
television workshop to actuallymake money on it, the electric
company really didn't have that.
So even though it wassuccessful by the sort of
learning objectives and measuresthat the doe had had asked them
(07:49):
to do, that it wasn'tprofitable in the way that
sesame street was able to beprofitable because we, you know,
we had big bird toys.
So that's why it got cancelled.
But but they actually decidedto like that final season, they
put in sort of syndication andit continued to air for many
(08:10):
years, which is how we wouldhave seen it, since it stopped
airing when I was one.
Yeah, yeah, and CTW, theChildren's Television Workshop,
also did 321, contact, which wasa science show, and they aired
it the same like in succession,and so that's why you get them
(08:31):
confused.
I think, and in my mind theywere kind of the same thing,
because when I sat down toresearch I was like but the
Bloodhound Gang was a part ofElectric Company and I loved the
Bloodhound Gang and then Ilooked it up, like no, it wasn't
, the Bloodhound Gang was a partof 321 Contact, which, by the
way, when I went and watched thetitle sequence for 321 Contact,
it was like going home.
Yeah, like all these cuts oflike there's a baby and there's
(08:53):
like a frog who needs to fly.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
The drop of water, the drop of water, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
The whole.
Thing.
I was just like oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Like I can call that up easily.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah, yeah, we.
I think that one we reallyreally loved.
I I even remember sort ofwatching it with Chris.
There's an episode of thebloodhound gang where, like, one
of the kids was Jewish andthere's like a thing about the
shofar like calling when you arein danger and anyway.
So, so some of the things that,like in this now 48-year-old
(09:28):
Tracy, like looking back to seewhat eight-year-old Tracy loved.
The thing, the hey you guys,which I recall as the start of
the credits, when I went and Ifound episode number one on
YouTube and it doesn't do thatand I was like but that's my key
memory.
Well, it turns out that thatphrase didn't happen until a
(09:53):
sketch in episode 19 of seasonone and it didn't actually
become a part of the titlesequence for a while after that.
But the thing that really blewmy mind about hey you Guys, it's
Rita Moreno.
She was part of the ensemble,as was Bill Cosby.
(10:16):
No, yes.
Oh, bill Cosby, morgan Freeman,rita Moreno, oh, oh bill cosby,
morgan freeman, rita morenothere, the other people on it
were joan was her name.
You would recognize her.
Uh, let me find her name.
Oh sorry, judy grobart, who youwould know if you saw lee
(10:39):
chamberlain and skip hennant, sothey'd all done repertory
theater before.
Initially bill cosby's namelike really surprised me, and
then I was like, but bill cosbywas actually involved in other
children's television like thealbert stuff exactly.
So he was actually that.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Once I thought about it, it didn't surprise me and
we're gonna have to have anepisode to talk about bill cosby
at some point yeah, just him byhimself, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
So when I think about the fact that it was rita
moreno's voice, and like she wasan I think she maybe was
already an oscar winner, I'm notsure, but like this very
accomplished, celebrated actress, where would I know her from?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
oh, um, well, I know the name, but I can't call up a
face.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Well, most recently she was in the reboot of One Day
at a Time.
She's a Puerto Rican actress.
She's Emmy, grammar, oscar andTony winner.
She was in Singing in the Rain.
She's an EGOT.
She was in Singing in the Rain.
She was in the King and I WestSide Story.
(11:44):
West Side Story is her famousone, that's okay, okay, okay
okay, and that's where she wonwon the oscar, okay, in 61.
So she was an oscar winner in71.
When she was on this, she wasin poppy carnal knowledge the
four seasons I like it, likethat Slums of Beverly Hills.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
She was in Steven Spielberg's remake of West Side
Story Okay, okay, she's a veryaccomplished actress and it's
her voice saying hey, you guys,okay, okay, which kind of blew
my mind, that's one of thosethings where like, uh, you said
the name and I was like I know,I know who that is, but I could
not tell you what she looks likeand or how I know her.
So thank you for that, becausethat was like you know how you
(12:29):
say Morgan Freeman andimmediately you hear the voice
of God.
I was thinking like I know Ishould hear her voice too in the
same way.
And then Lee Chamberlain, yousaid, was another one.
Yeah, that name sounds familiar, that's a she, right, a she-ly.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yes, okay, because I know Lee can be, yes, and I'm
looking up her discography, orwhatever that word is.
She had guest appearances onwhat's Happening in Different
Strokes NYPD Blue.
She is a stage actress.
Okay.
(13:07):
Most notably played OdalieHarris in roots the next
generation, okay.
Okay.
White shadow Brian's for beatstreet Viper the practice.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Okay, wow, so it sounds like these are all like I
morgan they were big.
He wasn't morgan freeman yes,but not like he went on to
become morgan freeman.
All capital letters, yes, butand then these all sound like
they're very accomplished actorsin on stage and screen.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Which is really cool.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Also, you were right about the music.
The guy who wrote the musicalso went on to be quite a
celebrated person.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
So this was not some fly-by-night undertaking.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
No.
No, and in fact, in theanimation.
Mel Brooks did some of thevoiceover in the animation, as
did Gene Wilder, and Zero Mostelalso did some of the voice
acting in the animation.
So it was really an all-starcast, and even the folks who
(14:21):
were not yet stars, like Freeman, went on to be quite, quite big
.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Yeah, well, and it sounds you had mentioned
something about diversity.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
I'm just thinking of, like, the names that you
mentioned and those that I knowit sounds it was very so in
terms of it was like thereweren't any Asian players who
were part of the main cast, butit wasn't like you know how
sometimes we'll especially, Ifeel, like kids stuff, it'll be
like a white girl, a white boyand like maybe one black
(14:53):
character.
It it changes which gender, butthis was like there was one
white dude in the main cast andotherwise there, so and then
Rita Morena is Latina, judy,whatever I said her name was
Grobar is a white woman, andthen there were two black men
(15:15):
and a black woman and that wasthe main cast, and so it wasn't
it.
It wasn't sort of like oh yeah,yeah, yeah, we need like the
diversity, hire, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
You know, it wasn't that at all.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
It wasn't an afterthought, mm-mm, and that
was really awesome in the likethe skits that I went to look
back at and also to your pointabout like trying to get to know
dad better, like these werecomedians and like sketch actors
, right and so, and they werewriting.
(15:46):
The writers were trying to makeit fun for themselves as well,
so, like one of so, morganFreeman.
One of Morgan Freeman'srecurring characters was Easy
Reader.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Like Easy Rider.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
And he's this like super hip, you know like 1970s
yeah hip black guy, you know,and the bell bottoms and the big
hair and the clashing patterns.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
I'm kind of remembering the bell bot, like
the bell bottoms and like, didhe wear his hair in an afro as
easy?
Speaker 1 (16:16):
yep, not huge, but not huge yes, but definitely
natural that that is striking achord.
Yeah, and just there was likethis little rhyme that my name's
easy, my name's easy reader.
He just can't help himself.
He has to read out loud.
It just makes him happy to read.
And then another recurringcharacter is a detective called
(16:40):
Fargo North comma decoder.
He decodes messages and um.
And then there was Jennifer ofthe jungle who, like, is
teaching Paul, who's a gorilla,she's teaching him to read.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Oh, so there was someone in a gorilla suit.
Yes, I remember the gorillasuit.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah.
So the hey you guys came fromanother recurring bit where Bill
Cosby is a milkman, like a milkdelivery man, and Rita Moreno
is Millie, his assistant, themilkman's assistant.
And so the very firstoccurrence which I watched on
YouTube of these characters,where the first time she says
hey you guys, she's like listen,do I have to get up so early?
(17:29):
It's four, 30 morning.
He's like, yeah, that's howmilk delivery works and they're
trying to figure out how manybottles to leave for this one
family.
And you know it's this sketchback and forth.
And she's like well, that'seasy.
And she like yells at the topof her lungs, like, hey, you
guys, how many?
You know whatever?
Like she's going to ask them,but it's four in the morning and
it's like it's just so, so,silly.
(17:51):
Yeah, it taps into that humorthat we have talked about before
, that Americans apparently love.
That's what we talked about inour Monty Python episode.
We've actually talked aboutthis a couple of times, about
this brand of humor that maybe,possibly, americans tend to
favor, which is one that allowsus, the viewer, to feel smarter
(18:13):
than the people in the jokewhich we see, like with we've
talked about, like with MrNoodle, who's on Elmo's World.
Damn it, mr Noodle.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
It's like it's a.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Sorry, yes, go ahead.
So this is a pretty common likehumor vein that we use with
children, Right Like where do weput our hats?
Do we put it in our hands?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
No, like that sort of a.
Thing.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
That's silly.
So it's that kind of humor withMillie the milkman's assistant,
but it's still charming, youknow, especially with these two
talented actors who are hammingit up, because that's what you
do in children's sketchtelevision and comedy, true,
true, two talented actors whoare hamming it up, because
(19:10):
that's what you do in children'ssketch television and comedy,
true, true.
So, going, looking back on it,it's hard to find one.
I mean like it's on youtube,but it's clearly like recorded
from someone's tv, like you cansee sort of the and and maybe I
could find I I'm sure I did notdo an exhaustive search they did
release it on DVD, or at leasthighlights, like 10 or 15 years
(19:30):
ago.
Maybe it was around the rebootor it was around some sort of
anniversary, because they alsointerviewed some of the original
cast members, including RitaMoreno.
Morgan Freeman and Bill Cosbywere not on that dvd as far as I
could tell, and some of themusic actually has been
apparently released online.
(19:51):
So what was really fun aboutthis?
Looking back on it, in additionto the all-star cast, with some
of the, there's a.
There was a repeating sketchwhere marvel lent spider-man to
this show, really, yeah, so, andpart of the whole, the sort of
(20:12):
reading gig, was that spider-mandoesn't.
You don't hear him, you see hisvoice.
So it's kind of this mix ofanimation and live action but
framed by as if you're lookingat a panel in a comic, okay, and
so as the viewer, you're forcedto kind of read Spidey's voice,
(20:37):
which so the kids are reading.
Kids watching this are readingwithout maybe even realizing
that they're reading, which ispart of the point.
That is brilliant.
Chuck Jones actually did someRoadrunner and Coyote cartoons
for the electric company.
Yeah, similarly like with thesigns and stuff.
(20:58):
So there was reading, becausethey're not.
You know, the Roadrunner andWile and Wiley coyote don't ever
talk out loud except to saymeet me, so seeing sort of those
other big brands, not justthose two, but also the voice
actors, you know Mel Brooks andGene Wilder, who were stars in
(21:19):
their own right in the in the70s.
I don't know why it wassurprising, because even today
we see big stars on SesameStreet still, or big music names
who recorded stuff for Yo GabbaGabba, for instance, or other
(21:39):
kids' shows.
It's a thing that we stillhappening.
So I don't know if it's becauseit was like from my childhood
and I don't remember it, butsomething about seeing these
like big name brands Spider-Man,chuck Jones, um Wile E Coyote
and the Roadrunner and you knowsome of the big voice actors in
(22:00):
this show it like warmed myheart in a way that I did not
anticipate, and I think part ofthat is it does the same when I
see it today.
It's just not for me anymore.
But something about thebuilders of culture, the
(22:21):
carriers of culture kind ofCulture, the carriers of culture
kind of I don't want to sayelevating, because that's the
wrong word, but validating, Iguess, is the word feels aligned
(22:44):
with what we're doing with,with deep thoughts, in a way
that just like, really like,gave me the warm fuzzies.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
It also strikes me as part of what dad would have
liked about this.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
In part because like so I don't know if that was
innovative, it may have been.
I don't like because SesameStreet was very innovative
because they didn't haveprogramming for children and
like Mr Rogers and his speakingbefore Senate about public
television and the importance itbrings to educating children,
(23:24):
you know that was all relativelynew in the seventies.
And so the idea of makers oflike straight pop culture I
don't know what else to call it,but like just general pop
culture, mainstream, mainstreamthank you Mainstream pop culture
coming together for education.
(23:44):
There's something reallyimpressive about that.
And I'm also thinking, sinceMarvel owned Spider-Man and you
know about the weirdness withSpider-Man versus Marvel and
Sony owned Spider-Man but notthe rest of Marvel.
Do you know about all of that?
No, oh, it's this bizarre thing.
So Marvel wasn't doing well inlike late 90s, early 2000s I
(24:07):
think, and so Sony boughtSpider-Man, the rights to
Spider-Man, but not the rest ofthe MCU.
Well, it's not CU.
The MEU, the Marvel ExtendedUniverse, because they're like
nobody cares about any of theother characters.
The marvel extended universe,because they're like nobody
cares about any of the othercharacters.
And I may have it backwards, itmight be that sony now owns the
(24:28):
meu and not spider-man, but inany case, that seems unlikely.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
yeah, I think it's, I think it's that way.
Marvel definitely owns likeblack panther.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, so yeah, that's what
it is.
So sony bought spider-man, justspider-man.
They are now kicking themselves, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
But that also, although it took the people, the
minds at Marvel, to create theAbsolutely yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
And there is some like very odd, like legal issues
that they go into with any kindof.
And then when Disney boughtMarvel, that's what I was
thinking of Disney now owns.
Marvel, oh yes, but Sony ownsSpider-Man and so like there's
some weirdness there and so theyhave to deal with rights and
(25:14):
legal issues and it sounds likeeither a legal nightmare or some
law nerds like just wet dream.
Like oh yeah, I get to diveinto this, like who owns what
and what can you use?
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Anyway, that strikes me as I don't know that you'd be
able to do something like that.
Yeah, I don't know that you'dbe able to do something like
that.
Yeah, I don't know.
Like, if today the peoplebehind Black Panther wanted to
lend Black Panther to achildren's educational show, the
amount of paperwork and redtape you'd have to go through
(25:54):
with Disney to do that seemslike it just wouldn't happen.
It would just be like it's justnot worth the mountain of
paperwork.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah, and money and money.
Yeah, that seems like it justwouldn't happen.
It would just be like it's justnot worth the mountain of
paperwork.
Yeah, and money and money.
Yeah, yeah, right, because soin 72 or whenever it was, that
they first started doing it.
I believe it was a promotionalthing for the folks who owned
Spider-Man at the time, and I'msure there was some genuine
altruism in it as well.
(26:21):
Yeah, yeah, okay.
So so those are some of thethings that I discovered.
So I also was pleased, thoughthere it's the seventies, and so
some of the women's costumeswere.
Their skirts were short, extrashort to the end, like they were
(26:44):
very short skirts, I'm.
They were like Jennifer thejungle is wearing like a what's
meant to be like a skin, youknow, like a animal skin dress.
Now she is also wearing tightsbecause I um, but so it was like
well, it was the seventies, andat the same time, like there
are several skits that I watched, you know, in my just quick
(27:06):
sort of spot sampling, whereRita Moreno is playing Like
there's one where she plays adirector, like a film director,
and she's wearing, you know,like trousers and like a beret,
you, you know, and like justsort of masculine coded clothing
.
Another where she's that episodethey were looking at the ue
(27:29):
sound and she's looking for herpool cue and again is dressed
very sort of masculine coded.
So we had the very short skirts, but that wasn't like a uniform
, which was the only way thatthe female cast was to appear on
screen.
So that was refreshing and Iwas pleasantly surprised.
(27:53):
I was pleasantly surprised bythat.
Now, while we're talking aboutdiversity, though, I mentioned
that Zero Mostel shows up as avoice character.
He was the.
In this animation, thisrepeated animation, there was a
character called the Letterman,who was wearing by zero mostel
and was definitely coded to bearab and has been criticized as
(28:26):
sort of insensitive at bestinsensitive and, and you know,
contributing to racialstereotypes against arabs.
So it it wasn't.
I don't want to, I don't wantto suggest that it was perfect.
Yeah, yeah, oh, another bigname Joan Rivers.
I totally forgot.
Joan Rivers was in that samebiscuit with the Letterman.
(28:49):
Wow, june Wilder, joan Rivers,zero Mustel, wow, yeah, so I
don't want to suggest that itwas perfect and it was
progressive.
It was truly progressive.
As far as I can tell, therewere no gay characters, whether
(29:10):
open or not, so that was missing, but it was the 70s and so that
actually makes a lot of senseto me.
Yeah, well.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
I mean, three's Company was considered
progressive by having JohnRitter pretend to be gay.
Yeah, which is so Gross.
Yeah, it's so gross and onlylike.
The only reason it's you caneven like watch it now is
because John Ritter is socharming.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
It's funny to me, like I remember thinking how Mr
Roper was, like, so old.
It's funny to me I rememberthinking how Mr Roper was so old
Somebody recently pointed outhe was 53 years old when the
show started, which is fiveyears from where I am right now.
I'm like, oh my God, he wasancient when we were kids.
It's amazing how things change.
I digress, I digress.
(29:59):
So, in terms of diversity andinclusion, there was no sexual
orientation diversity, at leastnot openly so.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
That being something that is included in children's
television, I mean, is stillbeing fought right now.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Agreed, yeah, still being fought right now.
Agreed, yeah, so yeah, yeah,and I think about sort of what
their learning objectives were,why, like, why they existed,
their reason for being, and I'mso glad that actually you know
that they had the racialdiversity, that they did it just
it feels really good and evenlike the original.
So the song stay the same forthe title sequence, but prior in
(30:45):
the very first episode.
If you go on, if you go ontoyoutube and you search it up,
you can find the very firstepisode and it opens with this
sequence where each of theplayers kind of comes in and
says hello and greets the otherone in different ways, in sort
of a sing-songy kind of a rhythm, but in ways like the dialect,
(31:08):
if you will, like the affectthat they use.
There are it's not middleamerica, hello, how are you?
You know, it's like, hey, howyou doing, like, how you doing,
like how you been, and they'reall and there's a bit of their
natural accent, if you will.
(31:28):
That comes through in that,which feels really powerful when
we think about representationfor kids who are in that sort of
7 to 10 range, who've outgrownSesame Street, having trouble
reading to see people who lookand sound like the people around
(31:49):
them and like themselves makesit all the easier for this
informal education to work, andI find that also like really
powerful.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
And I find that also like really powerful.
I'm also thinking just the factthat Spider-Man was part of
this and you know, yes, you'reright, it's promotional, like
that.
You know I wasn't thinking that, you know, I was just like, oh,
how kind.
But this was, and we were kindof raised with the idea that,
like, comic books aren't realreading, yeah, but this also
(32:22):
opens it up to like, hey, you'rereading, when you're reading
Spider-Man comic books and likeencouraging kids to go, like you
know, read more about yourfriendly neighborhood Spider-Man
, you know, go get, go get acomic book.
It's reading.
Yeah, it's fabulous, yeah,Fabulous, and it feels
progressive.
Because even when I wasteaching which was from 2006 to
(32:43):
2010, I had colleagues who werelike it's not real reading if
they're reading a graphic novelor a comic book and it's just
like why, why is that not realreading?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
It makes sense too that this television show would
feel that way, because part ofyour point earlier when you're
talking about how this was kindof progressive and thinking
about Mr Rogers going before theSenate and just kind of
convincing the broader culturethat this informal education is
valuable and worthwhile, thewhole notion of informal
education as a thing that we didintentionally is relatively new
and it makes sense that itfollowed television or, in this
case, is following television.
I mean, what we do in museumsis informal education, this
(33:45):
reified, rarefied kind ofinformal education that also in
that field has had to kind ofbring some folks forward who had
snobbery about what museums areand do.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Yeah, it's interesting, like I love the
informal education.
You know, of course, I've heardthat term before, but just
thinking about it right now, wethink informal and we think not
intentional.
And it's this is just kind of aside effect, a product of
(34:23):
conversation with them, or whatmovies I show them and stuff
like that, but taking the reinsand saying like no, no, no, let
us be intentional about thisinformal education, let us make
sure that we are makingdecisions about what they are
taking in, which is exactly whatwe're talking about in this
whole podcast for millions ofstudents.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
As a bolster to their formal education.
It feels so important andpowerful and also I almost and
(35:09):
this may be me projecting ormisjudging, but it almost feels
like we've forgotten as aculture, we've forgotten what
the Department of Education knewin 1970.
And part of that is thepreponderance of media.
In 1971, when the first episodeof Electric Company aired, we
(35:31):
only had five channels and youwatched what was being broadcast
.
Yeah, so that has changedcompletely.
That has changed completely,you know.
And so, even if the mostwonderful informal education
media is being produced, thenumber of people it can reach is
both exponentially larger andexponentially smaller, depending
(35:56):
on your marketing budget, whichwas not the case in 1971.
And so I think my sense thatwe've forgotten is un-nuanced,
but maybe not wrong.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
There's also I mean, that is definitely an aspect of
it, having worked in educationthere is also, like the, the
shifting winds of what educationis willing to do, and so some
of it is like you remember, ourelementary school had all those
weird open classrooms and it wasbecause it was built during a
(36:32):
time where they're likecollaboration among classrooms
and then you know they realizedthis does not work and they had
to put up these like temporarywalls.
Yeah, and so so you get thesependulum shifts that are very
political in some ways, and inparticular in the past 20 years,
we have, like the no child leftbehind, which focuses on
(36:59):
metrics to a degree that isactively harmful, because,
instead of the squidgy, informaleducation is boosting, and all
of that Even though, as you said, the electric company met its
targets in terms of what itwanted to do with education.
(37:19):
If you can't put it on aScantron and judge whether or
not a teacher should be firedbased on it, people haven't been
interested in the last 20 years, or?
Speaker 1 (37:29):
merchandise it.
Yes, Right.
So they didn't have additionalfunding from the federal sources
because that whatever it washad run out right.
And they didn't have additionalfunding from capitalism because
there were no dolls to sell oraction figures to sell.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Or even books like Monster at the End of this Book,
because that came out in the70s.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yeah, you're right.
It also speaks to my sense thatwe've forgotten, speaks to what
it is that we as a culture havedecided to value.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Yes, and funding for education programs.
This is not something I haveany kind of exhaustive knowledge
on, or even more than middlingknowledge on, but you know,
funding for like thiseducational program in the
seventies is one thing, and thenat the in 1980, ronald Reagan
(38:29):
is elected, and so that's verylike there's a very different
vibe about what government isfor you know, like he was the
one who said the worst.
The scariest words in theEnglish language is we're here
from the government, we're hereto help.
And so like the idea, likethat's very bootstrappy time of
(38:49):
American life, and so, even whenthe pendulum swings backward,
and then like it's very unusualfor the same party candidate to
win after a two-term president,so the fact that HW won the
presidency and he had been vicepresident and he was in a lot of
(39:11):
ways, poised, but that's veryunusual for that to happen.
So, just thinking the politicsof what Americans, if you stop
them in the street, said thatthey wanted, we're not
necessarily going to supportwhat you want to make a comedy
(39:31):
show for children to help themread Are you kidding me?
No, yeah, like there's apothole on my street.
Or you know, like we need tosecure our borders.
Or you know, or like can youput that in the schools for
people who are even, like, notaverse to spending money on
education?
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Right, right, right.
So I'm trying to decide if Iactually want to put 321 Contact
on our list, to look at itseparately.
Part of me feels like thisactually wasn't sufficient,
because I'm not sure what elseI'm going to have to say about
it, but I'm taking note of theway that public television in
(40:14):
particular I'm using theElectric Company as a stand in
there but, Mr Rogers, theElectric company and 321 contact
together like all in a row, washow we received these.
Now we're a little bit youngeron the Gen X, in the Gen X
generation, like you're right atthe end and I'm kind of at the
tail end.
So I think some of our old,older members of our generation
(40:38):
probably didn't have to bereminded, for instance, that it
was Rita Moreno, that MorganFreeman was in it.
In fact, I was reading up fortoday and somebody who was
interviewing Freeman sometime inthe past 15 years and asking if
people still recognize him asEasy Reader, and the journalist
(41:00):
said that he got a glint in hiseye and said they all have gray
hair now.
But yeah, those are some of myfavorites which I thought was
pretty adorable.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
That is adorable.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
So they don't need to be reminded of that and and and
and.
I think we see that too inculture.
Like if we think about a lot ofpeople know, hey, you guys from
the Goonies, but the Goonieshad it because of the electric
company, right, like thatcharacter had been locked in a
room with a TV for his wholelife and so hey you guys was one
of his phrases.
Like this show was a touchstonefor Gen Xers, as was Mr Rogers'
(41:42):
Neighborhood and 321 Contactand Sesame Street when we were
younger.
Like the idea that televisionwould help support our literacy,
our math literacy and science,with 321 Contact, our emotional
literacy with science, with 321contact, our emotional literacy
(42:03):
with mr rogers.
Like I don't think that as aculture we still hold tv to that
kind of uh I don't knowresponsibility.
It still has thatresponsibility.
We just have stoppedrecognizing it.
(42:25):
And maybe I'm speaking only formyself, but I don't think so.
I feel like I mean, that's evenwhy we named this podcast, what
we did, because we sort of wetreat it as if it's throwaway
and this group of creators inthe 70s didn't, and I don't know
(42:46):
.
That's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
It's interesting because part of what's going on
today is there are so, so, somany more sources of
entertainment.
Right, so many more sources ofentertainment.
So recently, when my kids weremuch littler, we had a rule they
could watch YouTube only onSaturday mornings and that was
(43:11):
our way to be able to get tosleep in, and we had like
parental like things on YouTube.
But I'm very uncomfortable withYouTube because it can like
radicalize people.
It's just their algorithm isawful.
And then I am reminded when Iwas in college I remember
talking to a friend aboutsomeone watching TV and I was
like I know I can't speak.
I can't talk because I lovemovies.
(43:32):
And my friend was like, yeah,but movies end, tv just keeps
going, like you never have toturn off the TV if you don't
want to.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Whereas a movie.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
when it's over it's over, and you have to make the
decision to start a new one.
And now it's even more so now.
I mean, that was when you hadto get a DVD to watch a movie,
and so that's my issue withYouTube is it is never ending.
So as the kids have grown, theyhave found particularly my
(44:07):
youngest has found ways to watchYouTube without watching
YouTube.
He's found other streamers andthings like that and it's like
I'll overhear what he'slistening to or what he's
watching, and it's just junk,basically.
And so I recently made a rule.
I was like we're going back tono YouTube except on Saturday
mornings.
And he's really upset at me andI was just like he's like, but
I can, you're going to let mewatch other stuff.
(44:28):
And I was like even like theNickelodeon sitcoms, which I
can't stand because they areregressive and like bad, badly
written, badly acted, and likebad, badly written, badly acted.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Yeah, really really weird sexual and racial politics
and they lean on weirdstereotypes.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Yeah, so like I hate them.
But what I told him is likeeven these are more nutritious
and that's the way I use it thanthis YouTube stuff where
they're just they're playingvideo games and they're
screaming at each other andthey're making edgelord meme
jokes and saying stuff that I'mlike I don't want my 10 year old
knowing.
And I said they are morenutritious because you're at
(45:10):
least learning story structure.
Yeah, you know, a 30 minutesitcom has almost perfect story
structure, with incitingincident, rising action, climax,
demon.
So you are actually learningsomething with that, whereas all
you're learning is how to benasty to people and think it's
funny by watching this.
And I said like, and you knowwhat that's like a candy bar.
(45:32):
I am okay with you having acandy bar once a week, but you
have to eat something that hassome nutrition the rest of the
week.
And that's how I feel aboutentertainment that is
intentionally produced, andthat's the way that I put it.
I was like you need to bewatching something that somebody
wrote Because he's like, well,what if I do this?
What if I do this?
I'm like it has to be somethingthat somebody wrote ahead of
(45:53):
time that there are multiplepeople making who are creators
of different types.
So, like you know, someone hasto have edited it, someone has
to have written it ahead of time.
There needs to be multipleactors, or or at least one actor
, and, like I know, youtubestreamers and and and Twitch
streamers they have, they haveeditors and stuff like that and
they do all that, but it's stilljust like there needs to be
(46:14):
intention behind it.
Yeah, and so and this isreminding me of why I, I, I drew
that rule- yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Well, we actually ended up having a lot more to
say about the lecture companythan I thought we might hit
record today, so let me see if Ican reflect it back a little
bit.
So this 1970s kids comedysketch that was asked for from
the department of education bythe children's television
workshop to help kids who in thesecond grade, specifically like
(46:47):
that age, who were havingtrouble reading, and it worked,
and it worked and it broughttogether a very talented group
of people rita moreno, morganfreeman, judy grob.
We had Bill Cosby long beforewe knew what a parasite.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
He's a shit.
He is.
He's a talented man, but he isa horrible human being In 1970s.
Did not know that at the timeLee Chamberlain, skip Hennant.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
We also had Jim Boyd as a voice actor and notably we
had Mel Brooks, gene Wilder,Joan Rivers and Zero Mostel as
voice talent in animation.
This show was for kids but usedlike really funny, interesting
(47:46):
wordplay and and some physicalhumor as well that would have
appealed to the moms and dads inthe room who were watching,
including probably our dad.
Like Fargo North comma decoderputs his mustache on when he,
before he answers the phone,fargo North decoder uh, puts the
(48:06):
, hangs up the phone and takesthe mustache back off, which I
know dad would have loved.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
That would have tickled him so much.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
I just know he loved that when he saw that, cause he
probably saw it.
Yeah, so, um.
So some of the things that wenoted was the value of the
representation in terms ofdiversity, not as an
afterthought, not as like asingle diversity hire so we
could say, oh look, we're not anall white cast, but a genuinely
diverse cast in terms of raceand mix of men and women.
(48:38):
Not a lot of sexual orientationdiversity, which makes sense
given the pressures of theculture in the 70s and today.
When talking about children'sentertainment, we also noted
that thinking about treatinginformal education with
intention is a thing that works.
(49:01):
The metrics were there in termsof the kids who are exposed to
the electric company doingbetter with their literacy, and
it is not something, apparently,that our culture values,
because the show was canceleddue to lack of funding and lack
of opportunities formerchandising.
Some of the things that we'venoticed that are different from
(49:23):
the 70s to today are the sheervolume of media and the ways in
which we consume media, so thatit is both easier and harder to
reach people today.
But for creators it's easierinsofar as like it doesn't take
(49:43):
a huge startup cost to just getout there on the interwebs, and
harder because to actually reachmore than three people, you
need money to spend onadvertising, as we well know.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
I was going to say it's like it's not like we know
anything about that.
Hey, tell your friends aboutthis podcast.
Please, Please, Seriously.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
We want to keep doing it and while the diversity was
great and progressive I mean,even by today's standards, I
think it would be consideredprogressive it wasn't perfect.
We did have Zero Mostel playingan evil bad guy, the
Spellbinder, which contributedto anti-Arab stereotyping, the
(50:26):
power of this TV show and theinfluence on Gen Xers.
We are a smaller generation interms of the number of us
compared to the generationbefore and the generations after
, and a huge percentage of uswere influenced and affected by
this TV show, as evidenced bythe Goonies and the character
(50:48):
who yells hey, you guys.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
Which some younger millennials might think that's
where that phrase originated,when in fact it was from that
character being influenced bythe electric company, you know
it's interesting, I feel like,cause there's a lot of online
discussion about likemillennials versus boomers, and
now they're talking about Gen Zand Gen Alpha, and oftentimes
(51:13):
Gen X is like forgotten.
Yeah, it's just not evenmentioned.
It's just not even mentioned.
And it feels to me like theelectric company is a is kind of
like a micro example of that,in that people just kind of
don't think about it, theyforget about it.
But if you mentioned it, likeoh yeah, that was a thing, and
so in the same way, like youknow, what are millennials and
(51:36):
boomers thinking about stuff,and they're like you know,
there's a whole generation.
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
Those Lachkey kids.
That was a thing.
That was a.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
thing to do with the fact that, even though Gen X are
currently in the age range tobe in charge of the world, we
still generally aren't.
We're not, yeah, because, inpart because boomers were such a
big generation, but like wetalk about how old politicians
(52:08):
are, but that's also true oflike CEOs and other stuff.
Like you know, we just were.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
They're living longer and retiring later.
Yes, Thanks, boomers Thanksboomers.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
But that also kind of fits with the.
I talked about this when wetalked about Reality Bites, the
Gen X view of the world, whichis kind of like you know what
we're happy to like?
Get home, make ourselves someTestino pizza rolls and let you
all fight it out.
We'll sit back and look cool.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
Or try, or try to anyway.
Yeah, I don't know if wesucceed, but yeah, anything else
that I missed in terms ofhighlights about Electric
Company.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
No, I do.
I'm now wanting to kind of goback and look at some of the
skits.
I'm now wanting to kind of goback and look at some of the
skits just because, as Imentioned, like one of the ways
that I try to get to know dadbetter is think about the media
that I know or suspect he wouldhave consumed like I did this.
He couldn't have seen it, butwhen I watched nope, like the
person I most wanted to talkabout it with was dad, because
(53:07):
it had so many.
Yeah, he would have loved thatmovie.
Yeah he would have loved thatmovie like the thing is, or he
would have hated it no, I don'tthink for the same reason he
would have loved it because,like children in danger oh yes,
you're right, that piece of itwould have bothered him it would
have really bothered him, butit was in backstory, so I think
he's like you in that case,except when the the entire
(53:29):
audience is sucked upoh so, um, so yeah, it's like
and that, but him hating itwould have been because it's.
It touches all of the thingsthat he cares about too.
Yeah, yeah so and so likethat's.
That's one of the things, likethinking about how he would have
been like oh, this isdelightful.
(53:50):
This is something I can sit andwatch with my six-year-old and
nine-year-old daughter and alsoenjoy myself.
Like this is not me wanting totake a hammer to the never
ending story.
Right, Right, Right yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:03):
Yeah for sure.
And like the music was fun andthat like one of the recurring
things that actually, once I sawit, I was like, oh yeah, it's
like two people facing eachother in silhouette and the one
says the start of the word, blah, yes, ooh, blah, ankh, blah,
and they say like the two partsof the word and then they say
(54:24):
the word together.
Oh my gosh, they do thatregularly.
I remember that Blah, ooh, thatblue, blue, um, and like that.
It's such a weird little thing.
But like the moment it startedI was like, oh, this thing I
remember.
Yeah, anyway, that's prettymuch how the electric company
(54:47):
went.
And and three, two, one contact, two.
When I went to I I started torewatch Although I rewatched
this one and the one kid goes toa pig farm, like a swine farm,
and he's like in with the pigs.
Well, first like little pigletsand then like older pigs, and
they're like these guys areready to go to the
slaughterhouse In fact, we gotsome chops on the grill, let's
go and I was like, oh my God.
(55:07):
It's going to be sick?
Well, like stand there lookingat pigs and then go eat pork
what is when you go eat theirfriend?
Speaker 2 (55:20):
oh, I know, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
I'm not squeamish like you are about, uh, about
meat even if you're notsqueamish about meat in general,
to actually stand there.
But that heading an animal andthen, like, walk 10 feet and eat
flesh from the same kind ofanimal.
Yeah, I guess I'm soft, I don'tknow.
Well, no, that's you know what.
If this is soft, I don't wantto be hard.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
It makes me, it makes me glad I like I do not eat
pork products because I keepkosher ish and uh like, one of
the reasons why I'm kind of gladthat I do that is because, like
pigs are charming animals, Likethey're very bright.
And they can be sweet.
Speaker 1 (55:59):
Yeah, so anyway.
Wow, we really went afar.
Sorry, I didn't mean to take usthere, okay, so next time, I
think it's your- turn.
Speaker 2 (56:07):
Yeah, it is my turn.
Yes, and so next time I will bebringing you my deep thoughts
on the 1980 film the Shining ohoh, yes, cool.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
You know, I didn't actually see that until the past
20 years, so I actually I don'tthink I saw it as a child
either.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
I think I was late teens I have a lot of thoughts
about gender, misogyny and theplace of horror.
We talked a little bit abouthow I feel about feminist horror
and things like that, and thenalso the making of that film.
I think there's some reallyinteresting stuff to think about
(56:48):
in terms of gender and misogyny, in terms of making it, not
just what's on screen Cool.
So yeah, I'm excited to talkabout it.
Speaker 1 (56:56):
I feel like there's some opportunity to talk about
race a little bit in that filmtoo.
Speaker 2 (56:59):
Oh, absolutely, yes, yes, the Scatman Carruthers gets
done dirty.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
Yeah, the man who shines, yeah, yeah, actually, I
remember dad saying for a manwho shines, he's not too bright.
Oh really, I don't rememberthat.
I think we watched it together,dad and I did.
Anyway, cool and listenercomments?
Let me check.
No, I have one.
One of our patrons actuallycommented on our reality bites
(57:26):
episode.
She said Alison said I wasabout to graduate from college
in the spring of 94 when I sawthis movie, so I related to the
character situations pretty well.
However, I was definitelyanti-Laney when Vicky says to
her I can get you a job at theGap, and she put on a total look
of disgust and said I am notworking at the Gap and instead
(57:47):
use the gas card.
I was done with her.
Maybe she wasn't lazy per se,but she came off as entitled and
arrogant to me.
But perhaps I just knew toomany people like that Smiley
face emoji.
Alison also then commented OMG,I had no idea that reality
bites the term meant anythingother than reality sucks in the
context of this film.
Speaker 2 (58:09):
You know it's interesting.
I always thought of that as nota plot hole, but like when
Lainey responds like I'm notworking at the gap, it was ugly.
Like that's an ugly moment Iremember many, many times, since
once she's starting to like,apply it like the wiener hut,
yeah, why does she go back toVicky and say like I was wrong?
Speaker 1 (58:29):
I'm sorry.
I know they're living together.
They're best friends.
Why didn't you say I was wrong?
If it's the offer still stands,I'll work at the cap.
Yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know.
Anyway, thanks, alison andlistener, if you want to share
your deep thoughts to our deepthoughts or to anything that
we've talked about, please shareit with us.
You might end up mentioned hereon the air.
(58:52):
You can reach us atguygirlsmedia at gmailcom or on
our website, guygirlsmediacom,where you can sign up to receive
our weekly emails.
They're pretty cool.
They are pretty cool Seriously.
Or find us on socials.
We're both in many of theplaces under our own name or
under Guy Girls Media.
(59:13):
Until then, see you next time.
Do you like stickers?
Sure, we all do.
If you head over toguygirlsmediacom, slash, sign up
and share your address with us,we'll send you a sticker.
It really is that easy, butdon't wait, there's a limited
quantity.
Thanks for listening.
(59:33):
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin MacLeod from
incompetechcom.
Find full music credits in theshow notes.
Until next time, remember, popculture is still culture, and
shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
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