April 2, 2024 • 65 mins
Looking good, Tracie! Feeling good, Emily!
On this week’s Deep Thoughts, Emily analyzes Trading Places, the film that taught her what a short sale is, how a bookie works, and that she is most definitely a money nerd. While the film offers a pointed critique of capitalism and racism, it undercuts its own message with the truly weird train/costume party scene and the random bikini-clad women on the beach at the end. Tracie and Emily also tell the story of how Jamie Lee Curtis happened to be at Emily’s wedding (really!).
Pour yourself a glass of frozen concentrated orange juice and listen!
Content warning: Mention of implied rape of an antagonist
Mentioned in this episode:
https://crossingthethemes.wordpress.com/2021/12/31/film-analysis-trading-places/
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/trading-places-1983
Our theme music is "Professor Umlaut" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Learn more about Tracie and Emily (including our other projects), join the Guy Girls' family, secure exclusive access to bonus episodes, video versions, and early access to Deep Thoughts by visiting us on Patreon.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Emily Guy-Burken and you're listening to Deep
Thoughts About Stupid Shit,because pop culture is still
culture, and shouldn't you knowwhat's in your head?
On today's episode, I will bediscussing the 1983 film Trading
Places with my sister, tracyGuy-Decker, and with you, let's
dive in.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Have you ever had something you love dismissed
because it's just pop culture,what others might deem stupid
shit?
You know matters, you know it'sworth talking and thinking
about, and so do we.
So come over, think with us aswe delve into our deep thoughts
about stupid shit.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
So, tracy, I feel like I've seen this movie with
you.
I'm not sure, but tell me whatyou know about Trading Places
like I've seen this movie withyou.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I'm not sure, but tell me what you know about
Trading Places.
Yeah, I don't remember when Isaw it and I don't think I've
seen it more than maybe twice,and it's been a long time.
And so the thing that came tomind first when you told me that
we were going to be talkingabout Trading Places, was Jamie
Lee Curtis's boobs.
They are very nice.
That's the first thing thatcame to mind, and then I started
thinking about uh, and then Iremember Eddie Murphy and Dan
(01:08):
Aykroyd, and um the bet betweenum Waldorf and Statler, um
Randolph and Mortimer whatever,but close enough.
those Muppets that sit up in thebalcony made a bet for a dollar
to ruin Eddie Murphy's life andand, yeah, that's about it.
(01:30):
That's what I remember.
Like I don't have any.
I remember liking the film, butI don't have a strong sense of
what was in it, aside from thosethings.
So not that much, honestly.
But I'm curious to hear fromyou like why are we talking
about this one?
Why is this one important toyou?
Because this is not one that weshared as like a deep,
(01:52):
foundational pillar.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
So this movie, along with the book the Westing Game
by Ellen Raskin, were littlebaby Emily's introduction to
investing.
Listeners may know that I am awriter specializing in personal
finance.
I've been doing this for 13years and I am a money nerd,
(02:18):
without ever having reallyrealized that that's what I was
until I started doing thiswriting, because I have always
considered myself very literary,the wind blowing the cape
behind me, and so it neverreally occurred to me that my
interest in money wasn't sharedby other people.
(02:38):
But I was very interested andthat was part of what made this
film really fascinating to me,in addition to it being funny
and in addition to it being likea very well-made kind of like
farce and romp, and I can recallfeeling the sense of triumph
(03:01):
when I finally got what thescheme was that Aykroyd and
Murphy managed to handle in theend, because it is a little
complex and the movie, to itscredit, does not explain it.
And so people who are not veryknowledgeable about the stock
market and how trading works canbe forgiven for being like okay
(03:25):
, they did something and nowthey won.
And for me I remember like okay, but how did that work?
Okay, but why.
And once I finally like, ohokay, I get it, I get what they
did, I get it, I get it.
It was just like this moment oflike I'm in the grownup club
now as a kid.
So I really, really enjoyed it.
(03:46):
Now, this was a movie I don'tremember.
The first time I saw it.
I definitely did not watch itfrom beginning to end.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
It was one of the movies that was like on TV and
you caught bits of it.
Back when they used to show thesame movie like over and over
and, over and over again.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah and so I saw I can't even tell you
the first time I saw it complete, but this is one that I
returned to many, many times andit's one of the movies that
when we used to turn on the TVand watch what was on.
If it was on, I'd be like ohokay, this is what I'm doing
(04:24):
this afternoon.
Yeah, because I just found itvery funny and enjoyable and,
and again, I find the moneyaspect of it, the investment
aspect of it, and like even theinvestment advice in it, to be
very compelling, cool.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
All right, well, remind me.
I know there's more than boobsin a short sale, but how do we
get there?
Walk me through the plotPhiladelphia, he is unbelievably
privileged.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
He lives in this gorgeous townhouse like
Brownstone but I don't know ifthey call them Brownstones in
Philadelphia with a butler whotakes care of all of his needs,
(05:15):
although I did find myselfthinking, because he's the
butler, he's the valet and he'sthe chauffeur and I'm like, well
, they are saving some moneythere.
So we meet him and he has astick up his ass.
It's very clear from thebeginning and he is kind of a
jerk to his butler, played byDenham Elliott, whose name is
(05:36):
Coleman.
We then meet Winthorpe'semployers, played by Don Amici,
that is Mortimer, and RalphBellamy is Randolph.
They have an even huger house,an even more gorgeous place,
they are surrounded by servantsand they are in an argument on
their way into work in theirlimo that they take to work.
(06:00):
Because Randolph is reading theNew Scientist and it's talking
about nature versus nurture andhe really believes that it's all
about the environment.
And Don Amici's Mortimer islike no, no, it's all in the
genes, and so this is kind of anongoing argument they have, we
see them do some investing, wesee like how they kind of
(06:21):
respond to each other, how theymake their decisions.
And then we meet Eddie Murphy'sBilly Ray Valentine.
He is a kind of two-bit hustler.
He is on a little platform onwheels pretending to be Vietnam
vets who has lost his legs, andhe is outside of the club that
(06:45):
the Dukes since Randolph andMortimer Duke the Dukes belong
to and trying to get money fromthem.
Obviously, eddie Murphy isblack, while these other
characters we've met are whiteand the Duke brothers treat him
terribly and then go into theclub.
Winthorpe Dane Aykroyd'sWinthorpe arrives at the club
(07:05):
and gets them to sign thepaychecks which shows you just
how old this movie is and on hisway out he bumps into Eddie
Murphy and drops his briefcase.
Eddie Murphy picks up thebriefcase to hand back to him
and Aykroyd starts like oh myGod, thief, he's stealing from
me and calls the police andthere's this ridiculous running
(07:28):
around in the club and that endswith a truly funny scene my
13-year-old was in the room whenit happened where Eddie Murphy
goes under a table and hefinally like he's pulled out and
there's like eight police gunson him and he gives this big
smile.
He's like is there a problem,officers?
His timing is just so perfectand my, my son cracked up.
(07:53):
I cracked up.
In any case, at that pointRandolph and Mortimer talk to
each other saying like, hey,this is a perfect time to make
that experiment.
We could switch, we could tradeplaces between Winthorpe and
Valentine.
And they bet each other thatWinthorpe will turn to a life of
(08:16):
crime and Valentine will becomea model employee by switching
places.
And they say the usual amount,yes, the usual amount.
From there they go aboutruining Dan Aykroyd's life.
(08:47):
They plant money on him that issupposedly stolen.
They charge him for it.
Then their operative talks to apolice officer played by Frank
Oz, by the way, so Miss Piggy isa corrupt cop in this and asks
him to plant PCP on Winthrop'sjacket.
And so he is booked for that.
And then the next morning, whenWinthrop's fiance comes to bail
him out, the same operativehires Jamie Lee Curtis's Ophelia
, who is just getting out ofjail because she's a prostitute.
(09:08):
So she had whatever she had todo.
She's getting out and he offersher $100 to pretend to be in a
relationship with Winthorpe andask him for drugs in front of
the fiance.
Long story short, he ends upgoing home with her.
She says I'll help you outbecause she believes him.
(09:29):
A lot of people are notbelieving him because he's now.
They take his clothes from himand he's now wearing whatever
castoffs they had at the policestation.
She looks at his hands andshe's like you have soft hands
and manicured nails.
You've never done hard day'swork in your life.
I believe you when you tell meall this stuff so I'll help you
get back on your feet inexchange for five figures.
When you're back on your feetso they never say which five
(09:55):
figures I'm like.
I hope it was for more than 10grand babe.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
It was the 80s, though, so.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yes, and she is shown to be remarkably financially
savvy, which we'll get to.
Meanwhile, the Duke brothersbail Valentine out of prison and
they take him to Winthorpe'shome, which they own, and
Coleman the butler is theiremployee, not Winthorpe's, and
(10:28):
in fact Winthorpe's fiance istheir grandniece.
So one of the lessons here isyou should not let your job own
you For reals.
So they bail him out, they takehim to winthrop's home, they
(10:51):
tell him this is your home nowand he is really concerned and
like wary and doesn't believethem and he starts to like like
he breaks a yeah, I remember thebase breaking because they're
like oh, you just made us moneybecause we insured it for this
and whatever yeah, he goes,should I break?
something breaking, becausethey're like oh, you just made
us money because we insured itfor this and whatever.
And he goes should I breaksomething else?
And they're like no, no, no,yeah, yeah.
So he breaks a $35,000 vasewhich they had insured for
(11:13):
$50,000.
So they just made $15,000.
Convinces him like, okay, theyreally are doing this, although
watching it this time around, Ihonestly was like he is too
savvy and too intelligent to belike yeah, okay, I'll go with it
(11:33):
and also, on the other hand,like he was, like pretending to
be a disabled veteran to make afew bucks.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
so even if this only lasts for a day or two, oh sure,
Sure it's money and run.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
And that's like that's the ride.
He's like it seems like he's onthat ride for a little bit.
He goes to a bar where thebartender is like you know, I
can't believe you show your facehere.
He's like here's the $27 ininterest I owed you.
And then like he's he's sayinglike everyone, come on back
(12:11):
party at my house.
There's a whole bunch of womenand he's like having Coleman
make hors d'oeuvres for them andand and drinks and stuff like
that, and like really havinghaving a very eighties party.
But he finds someone has putout a cigarette on the Persian
rug and someone else looks likethey're about to throw up and
he's like bathroom's that way,and then goes the other way.
I was like no, I said that way.
And so he's just like all right, get out of my house to all of
(12:32):
these people.
And so he's kind of takingownership of this nice stuff and
I'm honestly not sure how Ifeel about it, because he cares,
because it's his.
However, there is one reallynice moment, because it's the
night before he's supposed tostart work with the Dukes, so he
(12:56):
gets everybody out.
Coleman says to him like Ithink that was quite a success.
Everyone seemed to have a verygood time all of that.
And he's like why don't youretire, I'll clean up?
And Eddie Murphy says thanks,coleman.
And like it's so little, it'ssuch a little thing, but it's
very clear that like Coleman isnot used to being thanked, and
(13:30):
so the fact that they see eachother as like and Coleman also
sees Billy Ray as a human being,which the Dukes do not, so his
like I think it was a success isnot like he's not talking down
to him, he's very much like yeah, I mean, you had a nice party.
So Valentine goes to work thenext day is introduced to
commodities trading, which iswhat the Duke brothers are, and
so they have things laid out aglass of orange juice, bacon, a
(13:58):
loaf of bread, gold, and they'relike we're commodities traders
and this is how it works, andblah, blah, blah, blah.
And they are so condescendingto him.
And it's actually there's twoplaces where Eddie Murphy breaks
the fourth wall, and this isone of them.
They have bacon.
They're like so we do porkbelly futures, you know which
makes bacon which you can putinto a bacon, lettuce and tomato
sandwich, do you understand?
And Eddie Murphy looks directlyat the camera, which I think is
(14:22):
very subversive.
The other time is when he isarrested at the beginning and is
put into the back of the copcar.
He looks directly at the camerafrom the back of the cop car
and that feels very pointed,both of those moments, because
it's just like can you believethis shit?
And they're like okay, so doyou get what we do here?
(14:43):
He's like yeah, I get it.
You're bookies.
Which little baby Emily did notknow what a bookie was, but
figured it out based on this.
Because what they say is some ofour clients, they think that
gold is going to go up, and sowe invest as if gold is going to
(15:09):
go up.
Some think it's going to godown, and so we invest as if
it's going to go down.
But here's the best part wemake money either way.
Whether they earn money or losemoney, we make money.
And so I was just like okay, sobookie makes money, no matter
what happens when the bet.
Okay, so like that.
That.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
That was another one of those like weird part of the
grown-up and you're a part ofthe grown-up club.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Yes, yes, and not just the grown-up club like the
like kind of seedy.
It's like I got street cred nowbecause I know what a bookie
does.
Oh man, so valentine truly doesbecome a model employee.
He actually shows himself to beextremely savvy about investing
(15:51):
and I can't even if he savesthe money or if he earns.
I think he saves the money whenthey are arguing about when to
buy or sell something and he'slike no, no, no, hold off, hold
off, wait until it gets to thisdollar amount.
And they're arguing, they'rearguing with each other Like I
don't believe it.
And he gives his reasoning forwhy he thinks that.
And it's because he's a keenstudent of human nature.
(16:14):
He understands what's happeningon the other end of this and
the people who are, who arebehind it.
Winthorpe realizes that it isEddie Murphy who has ruined his
life.
He thinks that he's taken hislife and so he shows up at the
office Christmas party onChristmas Eve because all of
(16:36):
this is taking place right overChristmas and New Year's with a
gun he tries to plant drugs onValentine's desk and then also
has a gun with him and he'shumiliated in front of the Dukes
.
He takes out his gun and helike waves it around, he is
dressed as Santa Claus, he iscompletely drunk and at the
(16:56):
party, before he goes and triesto plant the drugs, he is taking
food from the buffet, and oneof the most hilarious sight gags
that I will never find anythingother than hilarious is later
on.
One of the things he takes isan entire smoked salmon and he
just stuffs it into his suitLike a whole fish.
(17:22):
And so later on he's on the bus, completely drunk, and he sits
down and he makes eye contactwith the woman across from him
and takes the salmon out and isgnawing on it with the beard the
Santa beard getting into hismouth.
God, it is comedy genius.
(17:43):
Anyway, at that point Randolphhas won the bet, because not
only has Valentine turned into amodel employee, but Winthorpe
planted one of them as a joint,and so he like throws the rest
away.
But he's like okay, and goes tothe bathroom to smoke that.
(18:08):
And he's in there and likehides when the Duke brothers
come in and he hears themtalking about the bets and it
turns out that they did this for$1.
It was a $1 bet.
And this is the point at whichthey say, like okay, so how do
we switch them back?
And Mortimer says well, I don'twant Winthorpe back now after
(18:30):
what he's done.
Well, should we keep Valentinein place?
And then Mortimer, played byDon Amici, says and have a
N-word running our familybusiness?
Absolutely not.
And Randolph, who is the moreprogressive of the two of them,
agrees.
And meanwhile, during thisscene, they're washing their
(18:50):
hands, which is just a goodvisual metaphor there.
So Valentine runs afterWinthorpe.
He is able to find him back atOphelia's apartment where he has
taken pills to attempt suicide.
They get him back to Winthrop'shome and they get a doctor
there.
He's going to be fine.
(19:11):
And they reveal all it is.
At this point.
They see on the news theoperative who had planted the
money falsely stolen money, thedrugs and Ophelia to ruin
Winthorpe.
They see him taking the USDepartment of Agriculture's crop
report from DC to New York forthe New York Stock Exchange and
(19:35):
they're like, oh, I know thatguy.
And they realize what's goingon is he works for the Dukes
illegally and he's stealing thecrop report information to give
them so that they can haveinsider information for trading
on frozen concentrated orangejuice futures.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Right, because we saw when we've the condescending
BLT sandwich scene that orangejuice is one of the futures that
they trade in.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Yes, yes, so they come up with this ridiculous
scheme to intercept the report.
They do so on the train betweenDC and Philadelphia, where they
all dress up in variouscharacters.
It is very cringy.
Dan Aykroyd wears blackface.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
He's like a Rastafarian.
Yes, yeah that's myrecollection.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
And he does that in part because Beaks is the name
of the played by Paul Gleeson,who was the principal in the
Breakfast Club.
So Beaks knows what Winthroplooks like, so there is
justification for doingsomething to his face to make
him less recognizable there'sjustification for disguise.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I'm not sure there's ever justification for blackface
no, and it also.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
It doesn't like this.
This scene doesn't really fitin the story because the way
that we have seen winthorpe, upto that point, he wouldn't have
any idea how to pretend to be aRastafarian Like he doesn't have
any.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Like you, wouldn't have the axe be able to do the
accent.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Yeah, whatever, yeah it just none of it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Because it was just Dan Aykroyd was like yeah, I
want to play, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, this was Dan Aykroyd, this wasn.
They're able to get away withthis because and of course,
beaks, who's not super brightbut not as dumb as they're
hoping he is quickly figures itout and takes them to like I
don't potentially even kill them.
He takes a gun and pulls a gunon them.
(21:37):
It is new year's eve and thereis a costume party on the train.
There also happens to be agorilla being transported on the
train.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Oh, I remember they put him in a gorilla costume.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
So John Belushi?
No, jim Belushi, john's the onewho passed away.
Jim Belushi is in a gorillacostume because he's part of the
costume party and so he followsthem.
Because, um, he, he seesophelia and jamie lee curtis and
like I want to see what's goingon with that party.
(22:14):
Very drunk, they end upaccidentally knocking jim
belushi out, which causes thereal gorilla to bang beaks on
the head, because the realgorilla was, like, attracted to
the gorilla costume.
So they end up putting Beaks inthe gorilla costume and then
putting him in the cage with thereal gorilla.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
And he's like gagged or something in the costume.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Yes, they put tape over his mouth, and this is
another aspect that just ooh,it's ugly.
There's the implication thatBeaks is raped by the gorilla,
which is just horrifying tothink about.
So they give the Dukes a falsereport and then on January 2nd
(23:01):
they go to the stock exchange toexact their revenge, which is a
short sale.
So they led the Dukes tobelieve that the crop was badly
affected by the cold winter, andso our shoes will be scarce in
the future.
So the Dukes are trying to buyup as much as possible before
the official Department ofAgriculture announcements.
(23:23):
Eddie Murphy and Dan Aykroydsell, though they don't have any
, they sell the futures.
During that point Everythingstops after a certain amount of
time for the agriculture report.
And so, because they're sellingand because the Dukes are
buying and people are like well,if the Dukes must know
something, everybody's buying,buying, buying, throwing,
(23:45):
ascending the price up.
The report is the cold winterhasn't affected it, crop will be
normal, and so that means theDukes have bought all of this at
an inflated price.
And so at that point, aykroydand Murphy buy.
They buy low and sell high, inthe opposite order.
(24:09):
And that was how I understoodit when I was a kid, when I was
like I don't get it.
I don't get it, I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
But how did they sell if they didn't have?
Speaker 1 (24:17):
That's something I am not clear on how that works.
I know how it works now.
If you do that, you need to beable to like basically borrow
from a broker and they get acommission for you borrowing it.
Some of this is because myknowledge of actual investing is
(24:39):
from after.
We no longer have those pitswhere people are shouting with
paper.
Honestly, I'm watching thatgoing, like how is any of this
legal?
Because you could just say likeno, I was just scratching my
nose, you know, and there's alot of like stamping and things
like that.
But honestly, I do not get howthat was able to work without
(25:00):
people, and some of that, Ithink, is there must have been
some sort of like honor system.
In the same way that, once theyget to the end, the Dukes are
ruined.
To meet the margin call, whichmeans to be able to pay for what
they bought, they would have toprovide $394 million, which
(25:24):
they do not have liquid, and Ichecked the inflation calculator
.
That's like $1.02 billion intoday's money.
That's a lot of money.
So, yes, and so the head of theexchange says like okay, sell
their seats, start liquidatingtheir personal assets, you know,
and so I think that's how itworked is because you had to put
(25:45):
up something as proof, somesort of collateral, some sort of
collateral.
So the last scene after that, oh, and they confront each other.
At the end, randolph appears tohave a heart attack and
Valentine and Winthorpe say like, oh yeah, we bet each other, I
bet Lewis, that we could makeourselves rich and put you all
(26:07):
in the poorhouse at the sametime, and he didn't believe we
could do it.
And I won.
And so he gives him a dollar soto show so randolph's having a
heart attack.
The head of the exchange islike mortimer, your brother, uh,
we, we need to get an ambulance.
And and I mentioned this for animportant reason uh, morner
says fuck him.
And there's a lot going on.
And then we end with thislittle found family of Coleman,
(26:33):
valentine, Winthorpe and Opheliaon a beach.
However, in addition to thosefour, there is a random woman
sitting with Eddie Murphy andthere's a random woman with her
arm around Denham Elliott, andthey're talking about what's out
(26:54):
for lunch, and Coleman callsfor Dimitri, who is a servant,
and says okay, we're going tohave cracked crab and lobster
for lunch.
And Dimitri says very good, mrColeman.
And then that's the end,although there is.
The final line is Valentine ison the beach and Winthorpe and
(27:21):
Ophelia are on a docked yacht,like however far away I mean
it's within shouting distanceand they say to each other
looking good, feeling good,which is kind of a satisfying
last line.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
So where do you want to start?
There's a lot there, oh,there's so much.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
All right, let's start with race.
Okay, because there are someways that this is subversive
about race, it is made clearthat in a lot of ways, randolph
is right.
Billy Ray Valentine is in manyways a product of his
(28:04):
environment.
He is a two-bit hustler at thebeginning because he did not
have opportunities, and he is avery intelligent and savvy
person who is capable of doingreally incredible things.
(28:25):
And at the same time, the moviealso makes it clear that his
hustle at the beginning is nodifferent from what the Dukes do
, except they do it withmillions of dollars and they
hurt a lot more people.
So, like, his recognitionimmediately like y'all are
bookies and his savvy athandling investments to me is an
(28:51):
indictment of our financialsystem, right?
So, like, what he is capable ofdoing is not something that
needs a Harvard education,because that's the when Thorpe
is big on the fact that he wentto Harvard.
It does not need this.
This beautiful club that they,they stay in.
It does not need you knowhowever many years they've sat
on the stock exchange.
(29:11):
It does not need any.
This beautiful club that they,they stay in.
It does not need you knowhowever many years they've sat
on the stock exchange.
It does not need any of that,it just needs an understanding
of human nature and and somecapital to start.
Some capital, yeah.
So that, that, I think, isinteresting.
The issue of race in this filmis also something that so um, I
(29:34):
mentioned that.
Uh uh, donna michi, as mortimersays, fuck him about his
brother.
Donna michi, I only know him asan older actor.
After this he was in cocoon andhe was in a.
I feel like he was in atwilight zone or something like
that, where the a bunch ofpeople from um, an old folks
home, turn into kids again.
(29:55):
He's been in several things andI only know him as, like an
elder statesman actor.
He had been in the filmbusiness forever and he had kind
of an old fashioned sensibility, to the point where there are
stories about how he was veryuncomfortable saying fuck on
(30:16):
camera and John Landis, thedirector, who's also the
director of Thriller Landis, hadto coax him into it and Amici
only agreed to doing one takeand that's what they used doing
(30:38):
one take and that's what theyused.
So he was squeamish about the Fword.
Same character also uses the Nword and I don't want to make
this about Don Amici not beingan okay person, because he very
truly is a product of adifferent time, which to me is
is.
It says more about, like theway our society looked at the F
(31:02):
word and how much we have grownand changed in terms of
understanding what is trulyvulgar.
In terms of understanding whatis truly vulgar and I don't
necessarily have, I actuallydon't have an issue with the
film using the N-word, becausethat makes it clear what
villains the Duke brothers areLike.
(31:23):
That is kind of necessary forus to understand just how
heinous they are, becausethey're still awful people.
But if they were likeValentine's doing a great job
you know, like he's doing betterthan Winthorpe did, let's just
keep him that would tell a verydifferent story.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Well then, it tells a story just about capitalism,
and not racialized capitalism.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yes, and this is very much a story about race.
The film, when it was written,was intended to be a vehicle for
Gene Wilder and Richard Pryor.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Oh, interesting.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Isn't that?
So that background is just uglyand fascinating.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
And I think there's a piece missing here from this
story, which is that donna michisaid the n-word on camera and
we don't know.
We don't know if he objected,but there was no story of him
there's no story of himobjecting.
So even if he did object, thenthose who were sort of
collecting interesting storiesabout the making of this film
(32:32):
didn't think it was noteworthy,exactly which is also
interesting.
So either he didn't object ornobody thought it was worth
noting that he objected pointsto the pervasiveness and
casualness of blatant racism andthe N-word.
(32:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Similarly, when Billy Ray is in lockup he's telling
stories to the other otherpeople in lockup and there are
two men there who are like Idon't believe a word he says and
they're intimidating guys.
In the credits they are billedas big black guy and bigger
(33:24):
black guy, whoa yeah, and theyhave more of a part than that.
He runs into them again andthey come to the party with him.
But that was like a joke in thecredits that we wouldn't do.
It's not funny, yeah, whereaslike I think if they were like I
(33:44):
don't know intimidating MF-erand like taller intimidating
MF-er, yeah, that would be likeokay's, that's kind of funny
banff number one and banffnumber two yeah, yeah, it's like
the fact that black is is doingheavy lifting for that
description, yeah, says a lot,so that's, that's really doesn't
(34:11):
age welldoesn't age well, does not age
well and undercuts.
What I think the film wastrying to do is same with uh,
with dan akroyd's blackface like, and some of it also like
because eddie murphy's characteris like in on this, this
conspiracy, where all four ofthem Denham Elliott, jamie Lee
(34:33):
Curtis, dan Aykroyd and EddieMurphy all are playing
characters.
Eddie Murphy pretends to befrom Cameroon and leans into
racial stereotypes about peoplefrom Africa, and that's pretty
ugly too.
And then the fact that thecharacter like signs off on Dan
(34:55):
Aykroyd playing blackface italso kind of like creates this
situation where like, oh, it'sokay because Billy Ray was okay
with it.
Yeah, the black guy said it wasokay.
Yeah, part of the joke it'ssupposed to be that they're
really bad at disguise.
Like that's supposed to be thejoke Because Ophelia is dressed
(35:18):
like in like later, no, dirndl,dressed in a dirndl, and so she
looks like she's German orAustrian, but she's like no, I'm
Swedish.
And like it's supposed to belike, oh, this is over the top,
but it doesn't like why.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Like the why, why, why are we doing this?
And like some of it, I feellike they just wanted.
Coleman is tends to be an Irishpriest and he has a bang on
Irish accent and I'm like thatworks.
Like that works, anyway, evenlike going into the.
Okay, well, this guy is likeBeaks, played by Paul Gleeson,
(36:00):
is an asshole and like he's gotprejudices and will lean into
them.
Like Ophelia is dressed withher boobs right there so that
she can lean over right into hisface and, you know, get him to
do stuff for her.
So like they're leaning intohis prejudices.
But it just it doesn't makesense.
(36:21):
It's not well written, it's notfunny, it doesn't.
It hasn't aged.
The only thing that works isDenim Elliot's Irish accent and
Jamie Lee Curtis looks amazing.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
I mean she always does I mean?
Yeah, she always does so.
Okay, so let's talk about.
We've been talking for a longminute, so we talked about race.
You gave a little bit like whenyou explained it.
You gave a little bit aboutlike sort of how the short sale
works, sort of the other thingsthat I recall you mentioning you
(36:56):
wanted to talk about before wehit record.
One was gender.
Do you want to talk aboutgender in this film?
Speaker 1 (37:02):
So film does not pass the Bechdel test.
Oh, really is it?
Oh, female characters there'sPenelope has some friends, but
they're in a single scene andthey don't interact.
The one scene that Ophelia andPenelope are in the same scene
together, you do see Opheliasaying oh, let's have lunch to
(37:26):
one of her friends who's gettingout of lock up with her.
That's it but she doesn't have aname, no, that other name.
So we've got that, I mean,which is like constant problem
in in, in the things we talkabout Now, ophelia is an
interesting character.
This is the first time Iunderstood the hooker with a
(37:48):
heart of gold trope.
And what's interesting is soshe, she takes care of Lewis and
like, has a has a soft spot,basically, for him.
But she also makes it clearthat she is a savvy
businesswoman.
So she brings them home and shesays, like rent costs money,
(38:11):
food costs money.
And then she's like so I expectyou to bring money in until you
get back on your feet.
You have to find a way.
And then she gets changed.
And that's when you see herbreasts for the first time and
she's like, oh, and they're notthe only things in this
apartment that cost money.
So making it clear like this isoff limits, off limits, this is
(38:36):
a business transaction, you arean investment.
Um, and then she also explainsthat she has 42,000, she's 24
years old, she's from a nowheretown, mining town that no one's
ever heard of, and she has$42,000 in life savings.
And she figures she's got threemore years on her back before
(38:57):
she can retire.
Her $42,000 is in T-bills.
Earning interest, which wouldhave worked in 1983, is no
longer something that'll giveyou enough to retire on in 2024.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
So how much is $42,000 in today's money?
Speaker 1 (39:13):
It's about three times.
So I use the inflationcalculator for a bunch of the
different numbers that arementioned.
So it's about 130,000.
So it's a good nest egg for a24-year-old.
Yeah, but not enough.
I mean, it would take a lot toretire from all work, but at
(39:37):
least that's.
And so she says all she has inthis world is this body, this
face, and up here and she pointsto her head.
A couple of interesting thingsabout that.
The film never shames her forbeing a prostitute.
It very clearly makes the casethat she is is like just a savvy
business woman.
What I find interesting is thatthe Dukes are commodities
(40:02):
traders and Ophelia treats herbody and face as a commodity
that she can use while she stillhas it.
As a commodity that she can usewhile she still has it, and in
some ways that feels veryempowering.
It's empowering within.
Capitalism is what that is.
(40:30):
But, it's still capitalism andit still grinds you under its
gears.
Yeah, she also mentioned shesays I don't have a pimp, and
like this apartment is a dumpbut it's cheap and it's clean
and it's mine.
So, like, similar to Valentine,she's shown to be someone who
did not have a lot ofopportunities, but she's making
even more than Valentine.
She's making the best of whatshe has and is very savvy about
(40:53):
it.
She recognizes that a pimp isnot worth it for whatever
protection a pimp could give her, not worth it for the costs.
She recognizes the importanceof having a place of her own
where she is not beholden to aroommate or anyone else.
She is not beholden to aroommate or anyone else, Similar
(41:18):
to the like my.
You know when I had forgottenthis, but when I realized, like
the Duke brothers own everythingabout Winthrop's life.
Like they, they own the househe lives in.
They they pay the servant thathe relies on.
They are the grand uncles orgreat uncles of of his fiance,
in addition to employing him.
So, like, my thinking was like,yeah, you're putting all your
eggs in one basket.
(41:38):
Like don't, don't ever giveyour employer that much power
over you.
I feel like there's a similar,it's like the inverse, with with
Ophelia.
Yeah, so like she, she, sheshe's taking full ownership over
everything.
Full ownership, yeah, but atthe same time like this is
clearly not what she wants to bedoing right, right, and then
(42:02):
she is sort of a prize forwinthrop at the end.
Yes, so there are a lot ofwomen's bodies in this, in this
film, um, so we I mean jamie leecurtis, who is gorgeous, and
they're at the party that uh,that valentine has several of
(42:23):
the women who, who come to theparty just end up topless
dancing.
So just boobies, boobies.
And then at the end, there'sthe woman with valentine and the
woman with uh, with Coleman,where it's clear like, oh, you
won, you won the quest, here'syour prize.
And we're led to believe thatWinthorpe and Ophelia have a
(42:46):
true emotional, lovingconnection, in part because she
dials back from that Like you'rean investment.
This is business.
Everything in this apartmentcosts money, including me, to
taking care of him when he'ssick, kissing him and trusting
him with her, her money toinvest it, cause they they use
(43:11):
Ophelia's and Coleman's lifesavings as part of what they do
for this Part of the short sale.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Short sale yeah, oh so that's what they must have
put up, that they didn't.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Well, they also the Duke's paid Beaks, or who they
thought was Beaks was actuallyEddie Murphy, and I don't know
if we know how much, but like$50,000.
So they put up yeah, they hadmoney to put up, okay, plus like
Ophelia's $42,000 and thenwhatever.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Coleman has saved.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Yeah, there is a sense that there is a real
emotional connection.
It's a love story betweenWinthorpe and Ophelia.
But then who are these othertwo ladies?
Like they're just random.
And like the thing that reallybothered me about that, even as
a kid, was Valentine throws allthe people out of the house when
(44:00):
he realizes they're not hisfriends, they're just there
because he has shit Right thatthey want Right.
Well, we got this right here.
Like, who are these two?
Speaker 2 (44:10):
women.
How is that different with thiswoman?
How is this different?
So like, is that different withthis one?
How is this different?
Speaker 1 (44:14):
so, like you're okay with these, these prizes, just
what.
There's also one of the thingsthat I really like and so I
mentioned before we started uh,recording denim elliot, who
actually, I think, won a baftafor this I I'll have to go back
and look it up.
Curtis also won one, I think, aBAFTA for this.
I never realized just how muchhe was putting into this
(44:42):
character in a farce.
I mean, this is, this is a likescrewball comedy.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Yeah, well, it's got Danny Aykroyd in it.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Yeah, who is amazing comedic actor, but he's a
comedic actor.
Yeah, he's got Danny Aykroyd init.
Yeah, who is an amazing comedicactor, but he's a comedic actor
.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Yeah, he's not known for his drama.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah, and Elliot, there are a couple of times so,
because Elliot is Aykroyd'sservant and like cannot say what
he's thinking.
You see it in his eyes and it'samazing.
There's a point where he isgoing through this huge
production of making crepeSuzette as dessert in front of
(45:21):
Ackroyd and his fiance, and thefiance is like I want you now,
lewis.
And so Ackroyd's like, okay,we're done with dinner.
And Coleman says no dessert,sir.
And he's like you eat it.
And you see his eyes, just like, and the next scene he's
throwing it out.
The one that got me even more,though, was when Winthorpe shows
(45:46):
up at the house after he's beento jail and all of that, and
Coleman has been told by hisemployers not to let him in, to
pretend he doesn't know him, andyou can see in his eyes just a
little bit of ambivalence, likeoh, I feel bad about doing this,
even though he's describedWinthorpe as a scumbag and you
(46:10):
know that he is not a fan ofthis guy so you see, you see
coleman's, uh, humanity throughyes, through the facial yes
acting performance and,similarly to his, his reaction
to valentine saying thankscoleman, yeah, yeah is is just,
(46:30):
it's remarkable you brought ushere, though, because we were on
the beach with these extrarando women.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
I have a feeling you want to bring it back.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yes, so the other aspect that really disappointed
me about the beach scene is itis made clear that Coleman is
not considered human by hisemployers and that's why
(47:11):
Valentine thanking him was sobig.
And his reward at the end is hegets a butler of his own to
order around.
And there are similar movies ofpeople changing places and
things like that.
You know, a rich man becomingpoor and a poor man becoming
rich.
And apparently the films of the30s and 40s have a moral, as
there are things that are moreimportant than money, which is
one of the reasons why I saidearly on, this is a movie of its
(47:32):
time, it's of the 80s, whenmoney was everything and people
complained because it didn'thave that moral.
And I feel like that finalscene undercuts so much of what
the story prior to it was sayingwhen it comes to things like
(47:54):
class distinctions.
So it's saying, like you know,oh, it's not that Coleman was
being mistreated because he'shuman, it's because he was a
temporarily embarrassedmillionaire.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It doesn't actually undercutthe notion of class at all.
It just says you should be ontop if you possibly can.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Yeah, whereas, like, I think that I still, I think
this movie could still be.
I think this movie would bemore impactful if, even with
them like not donating money tocharity, not like not doing
anything other than enjoyingthemselves If it were just the
four of them and it were aboutfound family and then the moral
(48:41):
is that the relationship mattersmore than the money.
Yes, you know the the money wasthe friends we made all along
the way, right, right.
By doing this, it makes itclear like it's a dog eat dog
world and as long as you're thetop dog, that's what's important
and that is really ugly.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
And I'm sympathetic to the reviewers who are like,
yeah, this isn't how it wouldhave gone in the 30s and 40s
with the original screwballcomedies.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
Yeah, so we've been talking for a minute now.
Are there any other key pointsthat you wanted to make sure
that you shared with me beforewe wrap up?
Speaker 1 (49:21):
So one last thing I want to talk about is consent
throughout the film and this isactually it's not even the major
story points of the film, withthe exception of the gorilla.
It's just showing howdifferently we view consent in
2024 than we did in 1983.
So early on we see Valentine onhis little platform with wheels
(49:48):
, see an attractive woman go byand he grabs her coat because
it's cold out, it's December,and is like hey, baby, you know
and and like trying to come onand she's trying to pull away
from him, and that already ickedme out.
When she finally is able to gether coat away and like walks
away as quickly as possible, hecalls her a bitch and on the one
(50:13):
hand, that is very realistic.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
Not very sympathetic for billy ray, though.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
No and I have wondered because, like he's
supposed to be like sympatheticcomedic character, even when
he's pulling his cons, and sosome of the stuff he says to her
I think is supposed to be funny.
He's like you saw porgy and bessright, which I don't really
quite understand the reference,but I think porgy is, is, is, uh
(50:41):
, disabled in the in the um Idon't know so like he says
things that are supposed to befunny and I wonder if the
writers of the film or johnlandis were like, oh yeah, this
is so outlandish Calling a womana bitch after.
And I'm like, yeah, there areno women in the room Clearly,
(51:03):
because that happens all thefreaking time yeah.
So that was the first thing.
I was just like, oh, I had nomemory of that, and that's
really ugly.
Then, while Winthorpe is inlockup overnight, his clothes
are stolen by the other inmatesand he, like his fianceecé,
bails him out and he's likethose men tried to have sex with
(51:24):
me and the humor in that islike his posh, like upper crust,
like outraged accent, with thisvulgar, horrific thing.
But it's not funny.
It's not funny Like there's,it's not funny.
(51:45):
It's not funny like there's,there's it's not.
So we have that.
And then then we have the, thebit with the, the gorilla, which
is just so ugly.
Yeah, um, and another thinglike the entire train aspect of
the the film.
It just doesn't fit tonally andpart of it was, I think Ackroyd
and Murphy were both affiliatedwith SNL and so, like Al
(52:07):
Franken and Tom Davis play thebaggage handlers who are
supposed to be in charge of thegorilla and they get drunk
because it's New Year's andshirk off their duties and I
think they wanted a vehicle for,like them and jim belushi, they
wanted a vehicle for that, butnone of it makes like it's it.
It's just this weird interludein the film that doesn't fit
(52:31):
yeah and is way too outlandishand like the the real gorilla is
so clearly someone in a suitand like the idea that anyone
would mistake a like party citygorilla suit for a gorilla which
they do multiple occasionsRight, Like it's not just the
drunk folks.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
Right, it's just, it's just silly.
It's just, it's not funny.
Silly it just yes.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
And it's very it's great, it's great the butt of a
joke.
Speaker 2 (53:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
Yeah, and as odious as Beaks is, like he's, he is an
odious character.
No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
No no.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
So that that has not aged well at all.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
Yeah, whew, this was a lot.
Let me see if I can reflectback to you some of the
highlights.
So I think the way that I wouldsynthesize it is that you know
this, this movie aimed to takeon not just capitalism but
actually racialized capitalism,which is in some ways very
progressive in 84, in some waysa product of his time.
(53:38):
You know, I mean, this is theera when we were sorry 83, right
83.
But remember, this is the erawhen we were talking about
welfare queens and like.
So the the racialized aspect ofcapitalism was I'm not sure we
were we weren't using that wordprobably racialized, but we were
(53:59):
doing it Like we were in it ina deep, deep way.
And so in some ways it's notsurprising that an early 80s
(54:25):
film, if up until the lastwhatever, like five minutes or
so, the final five minutesactually really undercut a lot
of the taking on, part of thetaking on racialized capitalism.
We see parallels betweendifferent characters, multiple
different characters, where wehave Dan Aykroyd's character,
winthrop, who has put way toomuch faith in the Muppets in the
(54:49):
balcony and allowed them to owneverything so that they are
able to take away everything.
So that they are able to takeaway everything, and counter to
that, we have both Billy Ray,who had zero opportunities or
(55:13):
fewer opportunities, but similarskill, and we also have Ophelia
Jamie Lee Curtis's Ophelia whowas the polar opposite.
She put trust in no one butherself.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
I do want to point out there was another really
interesting line at that time,when Valentine thanks Coleman.
It's the night before his firstday of work and he's like you
know, what do they want with methere?
And Coleman says just beyourself, that's something they
can never take away from you,which I think is also an
interesting through line,because part of like part of
(55:45):
what's interesting about DanAykroyd's character is there's
nothing to him, like he doesn'tknow who he is until everything
is taken away from him.
Another thing that I reallyappreciated, once Aykroyd knows
it's the Dukes.
The next scene you see himputting together double-barreled
shotguns and Valentine's sayingto him like you can't just go
(56:09):
shoot people.
And he's like just watch me.
And he's like well, it seems tome the best way to hurt rich
people is to turn them into poorpeople, which was another one
where, like that's the thesis.
Speaker 2 (56:23):
So I interrupted your synthesis.
No, it's okay, that's a goodone.
This film does not pass theBechdel test and it gives us an
interesting character in Ophelia, who is not shamed by the film
for being a sex worker, which weappreciate, and yet she's a
(56:44):
little bit of a prize forWinthrop at the very end.
I'll just add that, like babyTracy, when I watched this film
and I remember being likebothered by the fact that Jamie
Lee Curtis had to show her boobson film, like I can, we must've
watched it with dad, cause Ihave this vague memory of being
like.
But did she have to show herboobs, dad, and him being like?
(57:08):
Well, she's an actress and likewhatever the story is that you
tell a kid.
That's like, burned into mybrain loosely anyway quick thing
.
Speaker 1 (57:16):
Uh, the land has had to fight to get jamie lee.
Or he cast jam Curtis againstthe wishes of the studio because
prior to that she had been inhorror films which were
considered de classe.
Yeah, and so, like this was.
And what's interesting is, shewas in this, like in horror
films, which are known fornudity, and had never, never had
(57:36):
any nudity on screen until thisfilm, had never, never had any
nudity on screen until this film.
And then all of a sudden, like,and it's it's so much tied up in
there in that, like, oh, thisbecame, as how she became more
of a mainstream actress, but shehad sharp naked yeah, and it,
like you know, they, they madesure to and I'm not saying she
wasn't objectified in halloween,but differently, no, I mean,
(57:59):
and some of it was like she wasthe virginal, um, final girl,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But it's just the hula hoops no, not even hula hoops like the,
the tiny little bubble hoopsthat, uh, actresses have to jump
through just to do what they'regreat at.
Because she is a really goodactress.
Speaker 2 (58:21):
She also just seems to be like a mensch.
I follow her on social.
Speaker 1 (58:25):
She's pretty great.
Can I tell the story of how shewas at my wedding?
Sure, so my husband and I gotmarried at my alma mater, kenyon
College, on August 17th of 2008.
So school at Kenyon started thefollowing week, but Jamie Lee
Curtis's daughter was a studentat Kenyon and because she's
(58:46):
Jamie Lee Curtis, she would dropher daughter off like a week
early so that it wouldn't be athing.
So it would be about herdaughter and not about her.
And so it's a tiny littlecollege, 1,500 students, and
there's only one hotel on campus, and the hotel was the wedding
and Jamie Lee Curtis, yeah, so Inever actually saw her because
(59:10):
I was busy.
Speaker 2 (59:12):
I remember the person who checked me in was like now
we do have a celebrity here.
I'm not allowed to say it is,but you'll know when you see
them and just please don't makea big deal.
The receptionist was likeasking me to be discreet and I
was like I'm probably not evengoing to recognize them and they
were like yes, you will.
Speaker 1 (59:29):
Well, and you know about.
So she ran into dad in thelobby at some point, I don't
know, and, and, she said.
She said to him oh, are youhere with the wedding?
And he said I'm don't know.
And and uh, she said.
She said to him oh, are youhere with the wedding?
(59:49):
and he said I'm the father ofthe bride and she's like mazel
tov and kissed him on each cheekmade a day.
Oh my goodness, I mean he dinedon that story for years.
Yeah, yeah, anyway.
I have so much for heraffection for jamie lee curtis,
um yeah, not just because ofyon,but also because of like
growing up with her and then,Kenyon.
Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Yeah, so I covered racialized capitalism, I covered
gender.
I think you had a deepappreciation for Denim Elliott's
performance as Coleman, becausethere's so much that he had to
provide to the viewer nonverbally and that that he pulled
off and that was really lovelyin many ways to kind of
(01:00:24):
underscore his humanity, whichonce again was subverted by
those fine, that final scene,the structure of the thing has
this weird interlude that wasjust supposed to be funny and
didn't age.
Well, that's the whole thing.
On the train with the disguises, I'm trying to think what else
did we want?
Did I want to make sure this?
For you personally, em, it'sreally fascinating to me that
(01:00:48):
the whole, the whole plot lineabout the investing became so
important to you as, like,you're a member of the grownup
club, because once youunderstood how the short sale
worked, that you understood whata bookie was, those sorts of
things.
And even outside of that, again,this kind of push-pull on
capitalism that this film hasgiven us there's, on the one
(01:01:10):
hand, it's just betting, butdone in a polite way and hurting
a lot more people, and on theother hand, from the final
moments, like, yeah, so play thegame, play it well, win.
That was the moral, yeah, yeah,in terms of the racialized
capitalism to the racializedsociety in general, and the
(01:01:33):
example of Don Amici who was soloathe to say the F word on
camera and either didn't mindsaying the N word on camera or
nobody thought it was noteworthyto say that he didn't want to
say it.
Either way is a little bitdamning of our society and the
racism that was just taken forgranted in 83,.
(01:01:56):
Despite the ways in which thisfilm takes on I'm putting quotes
around takes on the racializedaspects of capitalism and
classism, final thoughts orthings that I missed.
Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
I just want to mention like this is more fluff
than anything the screenwriters.
It was a screenwriting teamTimothy Harris and Herschel
Weingrad.
Timothy Harris went on to writea number of screenplays.
I thought it was interestingthat this and Brewster's
Millions were his two firstmovies, so this is someone who
(01:02:31):
also has interesting thoughtsabout money.
But he and Weingrad wrote Twins, kindergarten Cop and Space Jam
, so like very successfulcomedic movie writers yeah, I
just found that reallyinteresting.
The other thing I thought waskind of funny because I was
looking them up on wikipediaherschel weingrad it was saying
like it was interesting becausehe was born in milwaukee I was
(01:02:52):
like oh that's cool.
And then he says, like hisparents are of jewish descent.
I was like.
His name is herschel weingraud.
Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
It's also interesting .
I thought he was Irish.
Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
Yeah, it's also interesting, even that phrase of
Jewish descent, Unless they'resort of saying they weren't
practicing.
Is it libelous to say someone'sJewish Anyway?
Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
yeah, so next time you're bringing someone to share
something with us.
Speaker 2 (01:03:18):
Yes, my friend Joanna is going to come on to talk to
us about veronica mars, which Inever watched.
Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
I think you did, though at least a little bit.
I did.
I.
I binged the first two seasons,um, about five years ago, um,
and then I watched like thefirst three or four episodes of
the third season.
Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
I was like I'm out, I don't want to know what happens
next well, we will talk aboutthat and why you noped out with
my friend Joanna next timeAwesome.
Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
And I think you have a listener comment for us, oh
yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
When I posted on social media about Reality Bites
, I asked my friends who wouldplay them in the biopic, since
Winona Ryder was my choice forso long, and my friend Christoph
responded that he's pretty surethat this guy would play it,
and he posted a picture ofCookie Monster.
Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
So thanks, Christoph.
We should all be so lucky as tohave Cookie Monster play us in
the biopic.
Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
All right, well, listeners, if you have deep
thoughts about our deep thoughts, please share them with us.
We really want to hear it.
So you can reach us atguygirlsmedia at gmailcom.
You can go to our website,guygirlsmediacom, and go to our
listener forum and please signup for our emails, which you can
then reply to.
Or you can find us on socials.
Yeah, either under our names orunder guy girls media.
(01:04:41):
All right, well, next time,ma'am, next time.
Do you like stickers?
Sure, we all do.
If you head over toguygirlsmediacom, slash, sign up
and share your address with us,we'll send you a sticker.
It really is that easy, butdon't wait, there's a limited
quantity.
Thanks for listening.
(01:05:02):
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin MacLeod from
incompetechcom.
Find full music credits in theshow notes.
Until next time, remember, popculture is still culture, and
shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
I'm Emily Guy-Burken and you're listening to Deep
Thoughts About Stupid Shit,because pop culture is still
culture, and shouldn't you knowwhat's in your head?
On today's episode, I will bediscussing the 1983 film Trading
Places with my sister, tracyGuy-Decker, and with you, let's
dive in.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Have you ever had something you love dismissed
because it's just pop culture,what others might deem stupid
shit?
You know matters, you know it'sworth talking and thinking
about, and so do we.
So come over, think with us aswe delve into our deep thoughts
about stupid shit.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
So, tracy, I feel like I've seen this movie with
you.
I'm not sure, but tell me whatyou know about Trading Places
like I've seen this movie withyou.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I'm not sure, but tell me what you know about
Trading Places.
Yeah, I don't remember when Isaw it and I don't think I've
seen it more than maybe twice,and it's been a long time.
And so the thing that came tomind first when you told me that
we were going to be talkingabout Trading Places, was Jamie
Lee Curtis's boobs.
They are very nice.
That's the first thing thatcame to mind, and then I started
thinking about uh, and then Iremember Eddie Murphy and Dan
(01:08):
Aykroyd, and um the bet betweenum Waldorf and Statler, um
Randolph and Mortimer whatever,but close enough.
those Muppets that sit up in thebalcony made a bet for a dollar
to ruin Eddie Murphy's life andand, yeah, that's about it.
(01:30):
That's what I remember.
Like I don't have any.
I remember liking the film, butI don't have a strong sense of
what was in it, aside from thosethings.
So not that much, honestly.
But I'm curious to hear fromyou like why are we talking
about this one?
Why is this one important toyou?
Because this is not one that weshared as like a deep,
(01:52):
foundational pillar.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
So this movie, along with the book the Westing Game
by Ellen Raskin, were littlebaby Emily's introduction to
investing.
Listeners may know that I am awriter specializing in personal
finance.
I've been doing this for 13years and I am a money nerd,
(02:18):
without ever having reallyrealized that that's what I was
until I started doing thiswriting, because I have always
considered myself very literary,the wind blowing the cape
behind me, and so it neverreally occurred to me that my
interest in money wasn't sharedby other people.
(02:38):
But I was very interested andthat was part of what made this
film really fascinating to me,in addition to it being funny
and in addition to it being likea very well-made kind of like
farce and romp, and I can recallfeeling the sense of triumph
(03:01):
when I finally got what thescheme was that Aykroyd and
Murphy managed to handle in theend, because it is a little
complex and the movie, to itscredit, does not explain it.
And so people who are not veryknowledgeable about the stock
market and how trading works canbe forgiven for being like okay
(03:25):
, they did something and nowthey won.
And for me I remember like okay, but how did that work?
Okay, but why.
And once I finally like, ohokay, I get it, I get what they
did, I get it, I get it.
It was just like this moment oflike I'm in the grownup club
now as a kid.
So I really, really enjoyed it.
(03:46):
Now, this was a movie I don'tremember.
The first time I saw it.
I definitely did not watch itfrom beginning to end.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
It was one of the movies that was like on TV and
you caught bits of it.
Back when they used to show thesame movie like over and over
and, over and over again.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah and so I saw I can't even tell you
the first time I saw it complete, but this is one that I
returned to many, many times andit's one of the movies that
when we used to turn on the TVand watch what was on.
If it was on, I'd be like ohokay, this is what I'm doing
(04:24):
this afternoon.
Yeah, because I just found itvery funny and enjoyable and,
and again, I find the moneyaspect of it, the investment
aspect of it, and like even theinvestment advice in it, to be
very compelling, cool.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
All right, well, remind me.
I know there's more than boobsin a short sale, but how do we
get there?
Walk me through the plotPhiladelphia, he is unbelievably
privileged.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
He lives in this gorgeous townhouse like
Brownstone but I don't know ifthey call them Brownstones in
Philadelphia with a butler whotakes care of all of his needs,
(05:15):
although I did find myselfthinking, because he's the
butler, he's the valet and he'sthe chauffeur and I'm like, well
, they are saving some moneythere.
So we meet him and he has astick up his ass.
It's very clear from thebeginning and he is kind of a
jerk to his butler, played byDenham Elliott, whose name is
(05:36):
Coleman.
We then meet Winthorpe'semployers, played by Don Amici,
that is Mortimer, and RalphBellamy is Randolph.
They have an even huger house,an even more gorgeous place,
they are surrounded by servantsand they are in an argument on
their way into work in theirlimo that they take to work.
(06:00):
Because Randolph is reading theNew Scientist and it's talking
about nature versus nurture andhe really believes that it's all
about the environment.
And Don Amici's Mortimer islike no, no, it's all in the
genes, and so this is kind of anongoing argument they have, we
see them do some investing, wesee like how they kind of
(06:21):
respond to each other, how theymake their decisions.
And then we meet Eddie Murphy'sBilly Ray Valentine.
He is a kind of two-bit hustler.
He is on a little platform onwheels pretending to be Vietnam
vets who has lost his legs, andhe is outside of the club that
(06:45):
the Dukes since Randolph andMortimer Duke the Dukes belong
to and trying to get money fromthem.
Obviously, eddie Murphy isblack, while these other
characters we've met are whiteand the Duke brothers treat him
terribly and then go into theclub.
Winthorpe Dane Aykroyd'sWinthorpe arrives at the club
(07:05):
and gets them to sign thepaychecks which shows you just
how old this movie is and on hisway out he bumps into Eddie
Murphy and drops his briefcase.
Eddie Murphy picks up thebriefcase to hand back to him
and Aykroyd starts like oh myGod, thief, he's stealing from
me and calls the police andthere's this ridiculous running
(07:28):
around in the club and that endswith a truly funny scene my
13-year-old was in the room whenit happened where Eddie Murphy
goes under a table and hefinally like he's pulled out and
there's like eight police gunson him and he gives this big
smile.
He's like is there a problem,officers?
His timing is just so perfectand my, my son cracked up.
(07:53):
I cracked up.
In any case, at that pointRandolph and Mortimer talk to
each other saying like, hey,this is a perfect time to make
that experiment.
We could switch, we could tradeplaces between Winthorpe and
Valentine.
And they bet each other thatWinthorpe will turn to a life of
(08:16):
crime and Valentine will becomea model employee by switching
places.
And they say the usual amount,yes, the usual amount.
From there they go aboutruining Dan Aykroyd's life.
(08:47):
They plant money on him that issupposedly stolen.
They charge him for it.
Then their operative talks to apolice officer played by Frank
Oz, by the way, so Miss Piggy isa corrupt cop in this and asks
him to plant PCP on Winthrop'sjacket.
And so he is booked for that.
And then the next morning, whenWinthrop's fiance comes to bail
him out, the same operativehires Jamie Lee Curtis's Ophelia
, who is just getting out ofjail because she's a prostitute.
(09:08):
So she had whatever she had todo.
She's getting out and he offersher $100 to pretend to be in a
relationship with Winthorpe andask him for drugs in front of
the fiance.
Long story short, he ends upgoing home with her.
She says I'll help you outbecause she believes him.
(09:29):
A lot of people are notbelieving him because he's now.
They take his clothes from himand he's now wearing whatever
castoffs they had at the policestation.
She looks at his hands andshe's like you have soft hands
and manicured nails.
You've never done hard day'swork in your life.
I believe you when you tell meall this stuff so I'll help you
get back on your feet inexchange for five figures.
When you're back on your feetso they never say which five
(09:55):
figures I'm like.
I hope it was for more than 10grand babe.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
It was the 80s, though, so.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yes, and she is shown to be remarkably financially
savvy, which we'll get to.
Meanwhile, the Duke brothersbail Valentine out of prison and
they take him to Winthorpe'shome, which they own, and
Coleman the butler is theiremployee, not Winthorpe's, and
(10:28):
in fact Winthorpe's fiance istheir grandniece.
So one of the lessons here isyou should not let your job own
you For reals.
So they bail him out, they takehim to winthrop's home, they
(10:51):
tell him this is your home nowand he is really concerned and
like wary and doesn't believethem and he starts to like like
he breaks a yeah, I remember thebase breaking because they're
like oh, you just made us moneybecause we insured it for this
and whatever yeah, he goes,should I break?
something breaking, becausethey're like oh, you just made
us money because we insured itfor this and whatever.
And he goes should I breaksomething else?
And they're like no, no, no,yeah, yeah.
So he breaks a $35,000 vasewhich they had insured for
(11:13):
$50,000.
So they just made $15,000.
Convinces him like, okay, theyreally are doing this, although
watching it this time around, Ihonestly was like he is too
savvy and too intelligent to belike yeah, okay, I'll go with it
(11:33):
and also, on the other hand,like he was, like pretending to
be a disabled veteran to make afew bucks.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
so even if this only lasts for a day or two, oh sure,
Sure it's money and run.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
And that's like that's the ride.
He's like it seems like he's onthat ride for a little bit.
He goes to a bar where thebartender is like you know, I
can't believe you show your facehere.
He's like here's the $27 ininterest I owed you.
And then like he's he's sayinglike everyone, come on back
(12:11):
party at my house.
There's a whole bunch of womenand he's like having Coleman
make hors d'oeuvres for them andand and drinks and stuff like
that, and like really havinghaving a very eighties party.
But he finds someone has putout a cigarette on the Persian
rug and someone else looks likethey're about to throw up and
he's like bathroom's that way,and then goes the other way.
I was like no, I said that way.
And so he's just like all right, get out of my house to all of
(12:32):
these people.
And so he's kind of takingownership of this nice stuff and
I'm honestly not sure how Ifeel about it, because he cares,
because it's his.
However, there is one reallynice moment, because it's the
night before he's supposed tostart work with the Dukes, so he
(12:56):
gets everybody out.
Coleman says to him like Ithink that was quite a success.
Everyone seemed to have a verygood time all of that.
And he's like why don't youretire, I'll clean up?
And Eddie Murphy says thanks,coleman.
And like it's so little, it'ssuch a little thing, but it's
very clear that like Coleman isnot used to being thanked, and
(13:30):
so the fact that they see eachother as like and Coleman also
sees Billy Ray as a human being,which the Dukes do not, so his
like I think it was a success isnot like he's not talking down
to him, he's very much like yeah, I mean, you had a nice party.
So Valentine goes to work thenext day is introduced to
commodities trading, which iswhat the Duke brothers are, and
so they have things laid out aglass of orange juice, bacon, a
(13:58):
loaf of bread, gold, and they'relike we're commodities traders
and this is how it works, andblah, blah, blah, blah.
And they are so condescendingto him.
And it's actually there's twoplaces where Eddie Murphy breaks
the fourth wall, and this isone of them.
They have bacon.
They're like so we do porkbelly futures, you know which
makes bacon which you can putinto a bacon, lettuce and tomato
sandwich, do you understand?
And Eddie Murphy looks directlyat the camera, which I think is
(14:22):
very subversive.
The other time is when he isarrested at the beginning and is
put into the back of the copcar.
He looks directly at the camerafrom the back of the cop car
and that feels very pointed,both of those moments, because
it's just like can you believethis shit?
And they're like okay, so doyou get what we do here?
(14:43):
He's like yeah, I get it.
You're bookies.
Which little baby Emily did notknow what a bookie was, but
figured it out based on this.
Because what they say is some ofour clients, they think that
gold is going to go up, and sowe invest as if gold is going to
(15:09):
go up.
Some think it's going to godown, and so we invest as if
it's going to go down.
But here's the best part wemake money either way.
Whether they earn money or losemoney, we make money.
And so I was just like okay, sobookie makes money, no matter
what happens when the bet.
Okay, so like that.
That.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
That was another one of those like weird part of the
grown-up and you're a part ofthe grown-up club.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Yes, yes, and not just the grown-up club like the
like kind of seedy.
It's like I got street cred nowbecause I know what a bookie
does.
Oh man, so valentine truly doesbecome a model employee.
He actually shows himself to beextremely savvy about investing
(15:51):
and I can't even if he savesthe money or if he earns.
I think he saves the money whenthey are arguing about when to
buy or sell something and he'slike no, no, no, hold off, hold
off, wait until it gets to thisdollar amount.
And they're arguing, they'rearguing with each other Like I
don't believe it.
And he gives his reasoning forwhy he thinks that.
And it's because he's a keenstudent of human nature.
(16:14):
He understands what's happeningon the other end of this and
the people who are, who arebehind it.
Winthorpe realizes that it isEddie Murphy who has ruined his
life.
He thinks that he's taken hislife and so he shows up at the
office Christmas party onChristmas Eve because all of
(16:36):
this is taking place right overChristmas and New Year's with a
gun he tries to plant drugs onValentine's desk and then also
has a gun with him and he'shumiliated in front of the Dukes
.
He takes out his gun and helike waves it around, he is
dressed as Santa Claus, he iscompletely drunk and at the
(16:56):
party, before he goes and triesto plant the drugs, he is taking
food from the buffet, and oneof the most hilarious sight gags
that I will never find anythingother than hilarious is later
on.
One of the things he takes isan entire smoked salmon and he
just stuffs it into his suitLike a whole fish.
(17:22):
And so later on he's on the bus, completely drunk, and he sits
down and he makes eye contactwith the woman across from him
and takes the salmon out and isgnawing on it with the beard the
Santa beard getting into hismouth.
God, it is comedy genius.
(17:43):
Anyway, at that point Randolphhas won the bet, because not
only has Valentine turned into amodel employee, but Winthorpe
planted one of them as a joint,and so he like throws the rest
away.
But he's like okay, and goes tothe bathroom to smoke that.
(18:08):
And he's in there and likehides when the Duke brothers
come in and he hears themtalking about the bets and it
turns out that they did this for$1.
It was a $1 bet.
And this is the point at whichthey say, like okay, so how do
we switch them back?
And Mortimer says well, I don'twant Winthorpe back now after
(18:30):
what he's done.
Well, should we keep Valentinein place?
And then Mortimer, played byDon Amici, says and have a
N-word running our familybusiness?
Absolutely not.
And Randolph, who is the moreprogressive of the two of them,
agrees.
And meanwhile, during thisscene, they're washing their
(18:50):
hands, which is just a goodvisual metaphor there.
So Valentine runs afterWinthorpe.
He is able to find him back atOphelia's apartment where he has
taken pills to attempt suicide.
They get him back to Winthrop'shome and they get a doctor
there.
He's going to be fine.
(19:11):
And they reveal all it is.
At this point.
They see on the news theoperative who had planted the
money falsely stolen money, thedrugs and Ophelia to ruin
Winthorpe.
They see him taking the USDepartment of Agriculture's crop
report from DC to New York forthe New York Stock Exchange and
(19:35):
they're like, oh, I know thatguy.
And they realize what's goingon is he works for the Dukes
illegally and he's stealing thecrop report information to give
them so that they can haveinsider information for trading
on frozen concentrated orangejuice futures.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Right, because we saw when we've the condescending
BLT sandwich scene that orangejuice is one of the futures that
they trade in.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Yes, yes, so they come up with this ridiculous
scheme to intercept the report.
They do so on the train betweenDC and Philadelphia, where they
all dress up in variouscharacters.
It is very cringy.
Dan Aykroyd wears blackface.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
He's like a Rastafarian.
Yes, yeah that's myrecollection.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
And he does that in part because Beaks is the name
of the played by Paul Gleeson,who was the principal in the
Breakfast Club.
So Beaks knows what Winthroplooks like, so there is
justification for doingsomething to his face to make
him less recognizable there'sjustification for disguise.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I'm not sure there's ever justification for blackface
no, and it also.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
It doesn't like this.
This scene doesn't really fitin the story because the way
that we have seen winthorpe, upto that point, he wouldn't have
any idea how to pretend to be aRastafarian Like he doesn't have
any.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Like you, wouldn't have the axe be able to do the
accent.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Yeah, whatever, yeah it just none of it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Because it was just Dan Aykroyd was like yeah, I
want to play, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, this was Dan Aykroyd, this wasn.
They're able to get away withthis because and of course,
beaks, who's not super brightbut not as dumb as they're
hoping he is quickly figures itout and takes them to like I
don't potentially even kill them.
He takes a gun and pulls a gunon them.
(21:37):
It is new year's eve and thereis a costume party on the train.
There also happens to be agorilla being transported on the
train.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Oh, I remember they put him in a gorilla costume.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
So John Belushi?
No, jim Belushi, john's the onewho passed away.
Jim Belushi is in a gorillacostume because he's part of the
costume party and so he followsthem.
Because, um, he, he seesophelia and jamie lee curtis and
like I want to see what's goingon with that party.
(22:14):
Very drunk, they end upaccidentally knocking jim
belushi out, which causes thereal gorilla to bang beaks on
the head, because the realgorilla was, like, attracted to
the gorilla costume.
So they end up putting Beaks inthe gorilla costume and then
putting him in the cage with thereal gorilla.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
And he's like gagged or something in the costume.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Yes, they put tape over his mouth, and this is
another aspect that just ooh,it's ugly.
There's the implication thatBeaks is raped by the gorilla,
which is just horrifying tothink about.
So they give the Dukes a falsereport and then on January 2nd
(23:01):
they go to the stock exchange toexact their revenge, which is a
short sale.
So they led the Dukes tobelieve that the crop was badly
affected by the cold winter, andso our shoes will be scarce in
the future.
So the Dukes are trying to buyup as much as possible before
the official Department ofAgriculture announcements.
(23:23):
Eddie Murphy and Dan Aykroydsell, though they don't have any
, they sell the futures.
During that point Everythingstops after a certain amount of
time for the agriculture report.
And so, because they're sellingand because the Dukes are
buying and people are like well,if the Dukes must know
something, everybody's buying,buying, buying, throwing,
(23:45):
ascending the price up.
The report is the cold winterhasn't affected it, crop will be
normal, and so that means theDukes have bought all of this at
an inflated price.
And so at that point, aykroydand Murphy buy.
They buy low and sell high, inthe opposite order.
(24:09):
And that was how I understoodit when I was a kid, when I was
like I don't get it.
I don't get it, I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
But how did they sell if they didn't have?
Speaker 1 (24:17):
That's something I am not clear on how that works.
I know how it works now.
If you do that, you need to beable to like basically borrow
from a broker and they get acommission for you borrowing it.
Some of this is because myknowledge of actual investing is
(24:39):
from after.
We no longer have those pitswhere people are shouting with
paper.
Honestly, I'm watching thatgoing, like how is any of this
legal?
Because you could just say likeno, I was just scratching my
nose, you know, and there's alot of like stamping and things
like that.
But honestly, I do not get howthat was able to work without
(25:00):
people, and some of that, Ithink, is there must have been
some sort of like honor system.
In the same way that, once theyget to the end, the Dukes are
ruined.
To meet the margin call, whichmeans to be able to pay for what
they bought, they would have toprovide $394 million, which
(25:24):
they do not have liquid, and Ichecked the inflation calculator
.
That's like $1.02 billion intoday's money.
That's a lot of money.
So, yes, and so the head of theexchange says like okay, sell
their seats, start liquidatingtheir personal assets, you know,
and so I think that's how itworked is because you had to put
(25:45):
up something as proof, somesort of collateral, some sort of
collateral.
So the last scene after that, oh, and they confront each other.
At the end, randolph appears tohave a heart attack and
Valentine and Winthorpe say like, oh yeah, we bet each other, I
bet Lewis, that we could makeourselves rich and put you all
(26:07):
in the poorhouse at the sametime, and he didn't believe we
could do it.
And I won.
And so he gives him a dollar soto show so randolph's having a
heart attack.
The head of the exchange islike mortimer, your brother, uh,
we, we need to get an ambulance.
And and I mentioned this for animportant reason uh, morner
says fuck him.
And there's a lot going on.
And then we end with thislittle found family of Coleman,
(26:33):
valentine, Winthorpe and Opheliaon a beach.
However, in addition to thosefour, there is a random woman
sitting with Eddie Murphy andthere's a random woman with her
arm around Denham Elliott, andthey're talking about what's out
(26:54):
for lunch, and Coleman callsfor Dimitri, who is a servant,
and says okay, we're going tohave cracked crab and lobster
for lunch.
And Dimitri says very good, mrColeman.
And then that's the end,although there is.
The final line is Valentine ison the beach and Winthorpe and
(27:21):
Ophelia are on a docked yacht,like however far away I mean
it's within shouting distanceand they say to each other
looking good, feeling good,which is kind of a satisfying
last line.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
So where do you want to start?
There's a lot there, oh,there's so much.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
All right, let's start with race.
Okay, because there are someways that this is subversive
about race, it is made clearthat in a lot of ways, randolph
is right.
Billy Ray Valentine is in manyways a product of his
(28:04):
environment.
He is a two-bit hustler at thebeginning because he did not
have opportunities, and he is avery intelligent and savvy
person who is capable of doingreally incredible things.
(28:25):
And at the same time, the moviealso makes it clear that his
hustle at the beginning is nodifferent from what the Dukes do
, except they do it withmillions of dollars and they
hurt a lot more people.
So, like, his recognitionimmediately like y'all are
bookies and his savvy athandling investments to me is an
(28:51):
indictment of our financialsystem, right?
So, like, what he is capable ofdoing is not something that
needs a Harvard education,because that's the when Thorpe
is big on the fact that he wentto Harvard.
It does not need this.
This beautiful club that they,they stay in.
It does not need you knowhowever many years they've sat
on the stock exchange.
(29:11):
It does not need any.
This beautiful club that they,they stay in.
It does not need you knowhowever many years they've sat
on the stock exchange.
It does not need any of that,it just needs an understanding
of human nature and and somecapital to start.
Some capital, yeah.
So that, that, I think, isinteresting.
The issue of race in this filmis also something that so um, I
(29:34):
mentioned that.
Uh uh, donna michi, as mortimersays, fuck him about his
brother.
Donna michi, I only know him asan older actor.
After this he was in cocoon andhe was in a.
I feel like he was in atwilight zone or something like
that, where the a bunch ofpeople from um, an old folks
home, turn into kids again.
(29:55):
He's been in several things andI only know him as, like an
elder statesman actor.
He had been in the filmbusiness forever and he had kind
of an old fashioned sensibility, to the point where there are
stories about how he was veryuncomfortable saying fuck on
(30:16):
camera and John Landis, thedirector, who's also the
director of Thriller Landis, hadto coax him into it and Amici
only agreed to doing one takeand that's what they used doing
(30:38):
one take and that's what theyused.
So he was squeamish about the Fword.
Same character also uses the Nword and I don't want to make
this about Don Amici not beingan okay person, because he very
truly is a product of adifferent time, which to me is
is.
It says more about, like theway our society looked at the F
(31:02):
word and how much we have grownand changed in terms of
understanding what is trulyvulgar.
In terms of understanding whatis truly vulgar and I don't
necessarily have, I actuallydon't have an issue with the
film using the N-word, becausethat makes it clear what
villains the Duke brothers areLike.
(31:23):
That is kind of necessary forus to understand just how
heinous they are, becausethey're still awful people.
But if they were likeValentine's doing a great job
you know, like he's doing betterthan Winthorpe did, let's just
keep him that would tell a verydifferent story.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Well then, it tells a story just about capitalism,
and not racialized capitalism.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yes, and this is very much a story about race.
The film, when it was written,was intended to be a vehicle for
Gene Wilder and Richard Pryor.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Oh, interesting.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Isn't that?
So that background is just uglyand fascinating.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
And I think there's a piece missing here from this
story, which is that donna michisaid the n-word on camera and
we don't know.
We don't know if he objected,but there was no story of him
there's no story of himobjecting.
So even if he did object, thenthose who were sort of
collecting interesting storiesabout the making of this film
(32:32):
didn't think it was noteworthy,exactly which is also
interesting.
So either he didn't object ornobody thought it was worth
noting that he objected pointsto the pervasiveness and
casualness of blatant racism andthe N-word.
(32:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Similarly, when Billy Ray is in lockup he's telling
stories to the other otherpeople in lockup and there are
two men there who are like Idon't believe a word he says and
they're intimidating guys.
In the credits they are billedas big black guy and bigger
(33:24):
black guy, whoa yeah, and theyhave more of a part than that.
He runs into them again andthey come to the party with him.
But that was like a joke in thecredits that we wouldn't do.
It's not funny, yeah, whereaslike I think if they were like I
(33:44):
don't know intimidating MF-erand like taller intimidating
MF-er, yeah, that would be likeokay's, that's kind of funny
banff number one and banffnumber two yeah, yeah, it's like
the fact that black is is doingheavy lifting for that
description, yeah, says a lot,so that's, that's really doesn't
(34:11):
age welldoesn't age well, does not age
well and undercuts.
What I think the film wastrying to do is same with uh,
with dan akroyd's blackface like, and some of it also like
because eddie murphy's characteris like in on this, this
conspiracy, where all four ofthem Denham Elliott, jamie Lee
(34:33):
Curtis, dan Aykroyd and EddieMurphy all are playing
characters.
Eddie Murphy pretends to befrom Cameroon and leans into
racial stereotypes about peoplefrom Africa, and that's pretty
ugly too.
And then the fact that thecharacter like signs off on Dan
(34:55):
Aykroyd playing blackface italso kind of like creates this
situation where like, oh, it'sokay because Billy Ray was okay
with it.
Yeah, the black guy said it wasokay.
Yeah, part of the joke it'ssupposed to be that they're
really bad at disguise.
Like that's supposed to be thejoke Because Ophelia is dressed
(35:18):
like in like later, no, dirndl,dressed in a dirndl, and so she
looks like she's German orAustrian, but she's like no, I'm
Swedish.
And like it's supposed to belike, oh, this is over the top,
but it doesn't like why.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Like the why, why, why are we doing this?
And like some of it, I feellike they just wanted.
Coleman is tends to be an Irishpriest and he has a bang on
Irish accent and I'm like thatworks.
Like that works, anyway, evenlike going into the.
Okay, well, this guy is likeBeaks, played by Paul Gleeson,
(36:00):
is an asshole and like he's gotprejudices and will lean into
them.
Like Ophelia is dressed withher boobs right there so that
she can lean over right into hisface and, you know, get him to
do stuff for her.
So like they're leaning intohis prejudices.
But it just it doesn't makesense.
(36:21):
It's not well written, it's notfunny, it doesn't.
It hasn't aged.
The only thing that works isDenim Elliot's Irish accent and
Jamie Lee Curtis looks amazing.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
I mean she always does I mean?
Yeah, she always does so.
Okay, so let's talk about.
We've been talking for a longminute, so we talked about race.
You gave a little bit like whenyou explained it.
You gave a little bit aboutlike sort of how the short sale
works, sort of the other thingsthat I recall you mentioning you
(36:56):
wanted to talk about before wehit record.
One was gender.
Do you want to talk aboutgender in this film?
Speaker 1 (37:02):
So film does not pass the Bechdel test.
Oh, really is it?
Oh, female characters there'sPenelope has some friends, but
they're in a single scene andthey don't interact.
The one scene that Ophelia andPenelope are in the same scene
together, you do see Opheliasaying oh, let's have lunch to
(37:26):
one of her friends who's gettingout of lock up with her.
That's it but she doesn't have aname, no, that other name.
So we've got that, I mean,which is like constant problem
in in, in the things we talkabout Now, ophelia is an
interesting character.
This is the first time Iunderstood the hooker with a
(37:48):
heart of gold trope.
And what's interesting is soshe, she takes care of Lewis and
like, has a has a soft spot,basically, for him.
But she also makes it clearthat she is a savvy
businesswoman.
So she brings them home and shesays, like rent costs money,
(38:11):
food costs money.
And then she's like so I expectyou to bring money in until you
get back on your feet.
You have to find a way.
And then she gets changed.
And that's when you see herbreasts for the first time and
she's like, oh, and they're notthe only things in this
apartment that cost money.
So making it clear like this isoff limits, off limits, this is
(38:36):
a business transaction, you arean investment.
Um, and then she also explainsthat she has 42,000, she's 24
years old, she's from a nowheretown, mining town that no one's
ever heard of, and she has$42,000 in life savings.
And she figures she's got threemore years on her back before
(38:57):
she can retire.
Her $42,000 is in T-bills.
Earning interest, which wouldhave worked in 1983, is no
longer something that'll giveyou enough to retire on in 2024.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
So how much is $42,000 in today's money?
Speaker 1 (39:13):
It's about three times.
So I use the inflationcalculator for a bunch of the
different numbers that arementioned.
So it's about 130,000.
So it's a good nest egg for a24-year-old.
Yeah, but not enough.
I mean, it would take a lot toretire from all work, but at
(39:37):
least that's.
And so she says all she has inthis world is this body, this
face, and up here and she pointsto her head.
A couple of interesting thingsabout that.
The film never shames her forbeing a prostitute.
It very clearly makes the casethat she is is like just a savvy
business woman.
What I find interesting is thatthe Dukes are commodities
(40:02):
traders and Ophelia treats herbody and face as a commodity
that she can use while she stillhas it.
As a commodity that she can usewhile she still has it, and in
some ways that feels veryempowering.
It's empowering within.
Capitalism is what that is.
(40:30):
But, it's still capitalism andit still grinds you under its
gears.
Yeah, she also mentioned shesays I don't have a pimp, and
like this apartment is a dumpbut it's cheap and it's clean
and it's mine.
So, like, similar to Valentine,she's shown to be someone who
did not have a lot ofopportunities, but she's making
even more than Valentine.
She's making the best of whatshe has and is very savvy about
(40:53):
it.
She recognizes that a pimp isnot worth it for whatever
protection a pimp could give her, not worth it for the costs.
She recognizes the importanceof having a place of her own
where she is not beholden to aroommate or anyone else.
She is not beholden to aroommate or anyone else, Similar
(41:18):
to the like my.
You know when I had forgottenthis, but when I realized, like
the Duke brothers own everythingabout Winthrop's life.
Like they, they own the househe lives in.
They they pay the servant thathe relies on.
They are the grand uncles orgreat uncles of of his fiance,
in addition to employing him.
So, like, my thinking was like,yeah, you're putting all your
eggs in one basket.
(41:38):
Like don't, don't ever giveyour employer that much power
over you.
I feel like there's a similar,it's like the inverse, with with
Ophelia.
Yeah, so like she, she, sheshe's taking full ownership over
everything.
Full ownership, yeah, but atthe same time like this is
clearly not what she wants to bedoing right, right, and then
(42:02):
she is sort of a prize forwinthrop at the end.
Yes, so there are a lot ofwomen's bodies in this, in this
film, um, so we I mean jamie leecurtis, who is gorgeous, and
they're at the party that uh,that valentine has several of
(42:23):
the women who, who come to theparty just end up topless
dancing.
So just boobies, boobies.
And then at the end, there'sthe woman with valentine and the
woman with uh, with Coleman,where it's clear like, oh, you
won, you won the quest, here'syour prize.
And we're led to believe thatWinthorpe and Ophelia have a
(42:46):
true emotional, lovingconnection, in part because she
dials back from that Like you'rean investment.
This is business.
Everything in this apartmentcosts money, including me, to
taking care of him when he'ssick, kissing him and trusting
him with her, her money toinvest it, cause they they use
(43:11):
Ophelia's and Coleman's lifesavings as part of what they do
for this Part of the short sale.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Short sale yeah, oh so that's what they must have
put up, that they didn't.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Well, they also the Duke's paid Beaks, or who they
thought was Beaks was actuallyEddie Murphy, and I don't know
if we know how much, but like$50,000.
So they put up yeah, they hadmoney to put up, okay, plus like
Ophelia's $42,000 and thenwhatever.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Coleman has saved.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Yeah, there is a sense that there is a real
emotional connection.
It's a love story betweenWinthorpe and Ophelia.
But then who are these othertwo ladies?
Like they're just random.
And like the thing that reallybothered me about that, even as
a kid, was Valentine throws allthe people out of the house when
(44:00):
he realizes they're not hisfriends, they're just there
because he has shit Right thatthey want Right.
Well, we got this right here.
Like, who are these two?
Speaker 2 (44:10):
women.
How is that different with thiswoman?
How is this different?
So like, is that different withthis one?
How is this different?
Speaker 1 (44:14):
so, like you're okay with these, these prizes, just
what.
There's also one of the thingsthat I really like and so I
mentioned before we started uh,recording denim elliot, who
actually, I think, won a baftafor this I I'll have to go back
and look it up.
Curtis also won one, I think, aBAFTA for this.
I never realized just how muchhe was putting into this
(44:42):
character in a farce.
I mean, this is, this is a likescrewball comedy.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Yeah, well, it's got Danny Aykroyd in it.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Yeah, who is amazing comedic actor, but he's a
comedic actor.
Yeah, he's got Danny Aykroyd init.
Yeah, who is an amazing comedicactor, but he's a comedic actor
.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Yeah, he's not known for his drama.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yeah, and Elliot, there are a couple of times so,
because Elliot is Aykroyd'sservant and like cannot say what
he's thinking.
You see it in his eyes and it'samazing.
There's a point where he isgoing through this huge
production of making crepeSuzette as dessert in front of
(45:21):
Ackroyd and his fiance, and thefiance is like I want you now,
lewis.
And so Ackroyd's like, okay,we're done with dinner.
And Coleman says no dessert,sir.
And he's like you eat it.
And you see his eyes, just like, and the next scene he's
throwing it out.
The one that got me even more,though, was when Winthorpe shows
(45:46):
up at the house after he's beento jail and all of that, and
Coleman has been told by hisemployers not to let him in, to
pretend he doesn't know him, andyou can see in his eyes just a
little bit of ambivalence, likeoh, I feel bad about doing this,
even though he's describedWinthorpe as a scumbag and you
(46:10):
know that he is not a fan ofthis guy so you see, you see
coleman's, uh, humanity throughyes, through the facial yes
acting performance and,similarly to his, his reaction
to valentine saying thankscoleman, yeah, yeah is is just,
(46:30):
it's remarkable you brought ushere, though, because we were on
the beach with these extrarando women.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
I have a feeling you want to bring it back.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yes, so the other aspect that really disappointed
me about the beach scene is itis made clear that Coleman is
not considered human by hisemployers and that's why
(47:11):
Valentine thanking him was sobig.
And his reward at the end is hegets a butler of his own to
order around.
And there are similar movies ofpeople changing places and
things like that.
You know, a rich man becomingpoor and a poor man becoming
rich.
And apparently the films of the30s and 40s have a moral, as
there are things that are moreimportant than money, which is
one of the reasons why I saidearly on, this is a movie of its
(47:32):
time, it's of the 80s, whenmoney was everything and people
complained because it didn'thave that moral.
And I feel like that finalscene undercuts so much of what
the story prior to it was sayingwhen it comes to things like
(47:54):
class distinctions.
So it's saying, like you know,oh, it's not that Coleman was
being mistreated because he'shuman, it's because he was a
temporarily embarrassedmillionaire.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It doesn't actually undercutthe notion of class at all.
It just says you should be ontop if you possibly can.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Yeah, whereas, like, I think that I still, I think
this movie could still be.
I think this movie would bemore impactful if, even with
them like not donating money tocharity, not like not doing
anything other than enjoyingthemselves If it were just the
four of them and it were aboutfound family and then the moral
(48:41):
is that the relationship mattersmore than the money.
Yes, you know the the money wasthe friends we made all along
the way, right, right.
By doing this, it makes itclear like it's a dog eat dog
world and as long as you're thetop dog, that's what's important
and that is really ugly.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
And I'm sympathetic to the reviewers who are like,
yeah, this isn't how it wouldhave gone in the 30s and 40s
with the original screwballcomedies.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
Yeah, so we've been talking for a minute now.
Are there any other key pointsthat you wanted to make sure
that you shared with me beforewe wrap up?
Speaker 1 (49:21):
So one last thing I want to talk about is consent
throughout the film and this isactually it's not even the major
story points of the film, withthe exception of the gorilla.
It's just showing howdifferently we view consent in
2024 than we did in 1983.
So early on we see Valentine onhis little platform with wheels
(49:48):
, see an attractive woman go byand he grabs her coat because
it's cold out, it's December,and is like hey, baby, you know
and and like trying to come onand she's trying to pull away
from him, and that already ickedme out.
When she finally is able to gether coat away and like walks
away as quickly as possible, hecalls her a bitch and on the one
(50:13):
hand, that is very realistic.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
Not very sympathetic for billy ray, though.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
No and I have wondered because, like he's
supposed to be like sympatheticcomedic character, even when
he's pulling his cons, and sosome of the stuff he says to her
I think is supposed to be funny.
He's like you saw porgy and bessright, which I don't really
quite understand the reference,but I think porgy is, is, is, uh
(50:41):
, disabled in the in the um Idon't know so like he says
things that are supposed to befunny and I wonder if the
writers of the film or johnlandis were like, oh yeah, this
is so outlandish Calling a womana bitch after.
And I'm like, yeah, there areno women in the room Clearly,
(51:03):
because that happens all thefreaking time yeah.
So that was the first thing.
I was just like, oh, I had nomemory of that, and that's
really ugly.
Then, while Winthorpe is inlockup overnight, his clothes
are stolen by the other inmatesand he, like his fianceecé,
bails him out and he's likethose men tried to have sex with
(51:24):
me and the humor in that islike his posh, like upper crust,
like outraged accent, with thisvulgar, horrific thing.
But it's not funny.
It's not funny Like there's,it's not funny.
(51:45):
It's not funny like there's,there's it's not.
So we have that.
And then then we have the, thebit with the, the gorilla, which
is just so ugly.
Yeah, um, and another thinglike the entire train aspect of
the the film.
It just doesn't fit tonally andpart of it was, I think Ackroyd
and Murphy were both affiliatedwith SNL and so, like Al
(52:07):
Franken and Tom Davis play thebaggage handlers who are
supposed to be in charge of thegorilla and they get drunk
because it's New Year's andshirk off their duties and I
think they wanted a vehicle for,like them and jim belushi, they
wanted a vehicle for that, butnone of it makes like it's it.
It's just this weird interludein the film that doesn't fit
(52:31):
yeah and is way too outlandishand like the the real gorilla is
so clearly someone in a suitand like the idea that anyone
would mistake a like party citygorilla suit for a gorilla which
they do multiple occasionsRight, Like it's not just the
drunk folks.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
Right, it's just, it's just silly.
It's just, it's not funny.
Silly it just yes.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
And it's very it's great, it's great the butt of a
joke.
Speaker 2 (53:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
Yeah, and as odious as Beaks is, like he's, he is an
odious character.
No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
No no.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
So that that has not aged well at all.
Speaker 2 (53:16):
Yeah, whew, this was a lot.
Let me see if I can reflectback to you some of the
highlights.
So I think the way that I wouldsynthesize it is that you know
this, this movie aimed to takeon not just capitalism but
actually racialized capitalism,which is in some ways very
progressive in 84, in some waysa product of his time.
(53:38):
You know, I mean, this is theera when we were sorry 83, right
83.
But remember, this is the erawhen we were talking about
welfare queens and like.
So the the racialized aspect ofcapitalism was I'm not sure we
were we weren't using that wordprobably racialized, but we were
(53:59):
doing it Like we were in it ina deep, deep way.
And so in some ways it's notsurprising that an early 80s
(54:25):
film, if up until the lastwhatever, like five minutes or
so, the final five minutesactually really undercut a lot
of the taking on, part of thetaking on racialized capitalism.
We see parallels betweendifferent characters, multiple
different characters, where wehave Dan Aykroyd's character,
winthrop, who has put way toomuch faith in the Muppets in the
(54:49):
balcony and allowed them to owneverything so that they are
able to take away everything.
So that they are able to takeaway everything, and counter to
that, we have both Billy Ray,who had zero opportunities or
(55:13):
fewer opportunities, but similarskill, and we also have Ophelia
Jamie Lee Curtis's Ophelia whowas the polar opposite.
She put trust in no one butherself.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
I do want to point out there was another really
interesting line at that time,when Valentine thanks Coleman.
It's the night before his firstday of work and he's like you
know, what do they want with methere?
And Coleman says just beyourself, that's something they
can never take away from you,which I think is also an
interesting through line,because part of like part of
(55:45):
what's interesting about DanAykroyd's character is there's
nothing to him, like he doesn'tknow who he is until everything
is taken away from him.
Another thing that I reallyappreciated, once Aykroyd knows
it's the Dukes.
The next scene you see himputting together double-barreled
shotguns and Valentine's sayingto him like you can't just go
(56:09):
shoot people.
And he's like just watch me.
And he's like well, it seems tome the best way to hurt rich
people is to turn them into poorpeople, which was another one
where, like that's the thesis.
Speaker 2 (56:23):
So I interrupted your synthesis.
No, it's okay, that's a goodone.
This film does not pass theBechdel test and it gives us an
interesting character in Ophelia, who is not shamed by the film
for being a sex worker, which weappreciate, and yet she's a
(56:44):
little bit of a prize forWinthrop at the very end.
I'll just add that, like babyTracy, when I watched this film
and I remember being likebothered by the fact that Jamie
Lee Curtis had to show her boobson film, like I can, we must've
watched it with dad, cause Ihave this vague memory of being
like.
But did she have to show herboobs, dad, and him being like?
(57:08):
Well, she's an actress and likewhatever the story is that you
tell a kid.
That's like, burned into mybrain loosely anyway quick thing
.
Speaker 1 (57:16):
Uh, the land has had to fight to get jamie lee.
Or he cast jam Curtis againstthe wishes of the studio because
prior to that she had been inhorror films which were
considered de classe.
Yeah, and so, like this was.
And what's interesting is, shewas in this, like in horror
films, which are known fornudity, and had never, never had
(57:36):
any nudity on screen until thisfilm, had never, never had any
nudity on screen until this film.
And then all of a sudden, like,and it's it's so much tied up in
there in that, like, oh, thisbecame, as how she became more
of a mainstream actress, but shehad sharp naked yeah, and it,
like you know, they, they madesure to and I'm not saying she
wasn't objectified in halloween,but differently, no, I mean,
(57:59):
and some of it was like she wasthe virginal, um, final girl,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But it's just the hula hoops no, not even hula hoops like the,
the tiny little bubble hoopsthat, uh, actresses have to jump
through just to do what they'regreat at.
Because she is a really goodactress.
Speaker 2 (58:21):
She also just seems to be like a mensch.
I follow her on social.
Speaker 1 (58:25):
She's pretty great.
Can I tell the story of how shewas at my wedding?
Sure, so my husband and I gotmarried at my alma mater, kenyon
College, on August 17th of 2008.
So school at Kenyon started thefollowing week, but Jamie Lee
Curtis's daughter was a studentat Kenyon and because she's
(58:46):
Jamie Lee Curtis, she would dropher daughter off like a week
early so that it wouldn't be athing.
So it would be about herdaughter and not about her.
And so it's a tiny littlecollege, 1,500 students, and
there's only one hotel on campus, and the hotel was the wedding
and Jamie Lee Curtis, yeah, so Inever actually saw her because
(59:10):
I was busy.
Speaker 2 (59:12):
I remember the person who checked me in was like now
we do have a celebrity here.
I'm not allowed to say it is,but you'll know when you see
them and just please don't makea big deal.
The receptionist was likeasking me to be discreet and I
was like I'm probably not evengoing to recognize them and they
were like yes, you will.
Speaker 1 (59:29):
Well, and you know about.
So she ran into dad in thelobby at some point, I don't
know, and, and, she said.
She said to him oh, are youhere with the wedding?
And he said I'm don't know.
And and uh, she said.
She said to him oh, are youhere with the wedding?
(59:49):
and he said I'm the father ofthe bride and she's like mazel
tov and kissed him on each cheekmade a day.
Oh my goodness, I mean he dinedon that story for years.
Yeah, yeah, anyway.
I have so much for heraffection for jamie lee curtis,
um yeah, not just because ofyon,but also because of like
growing up with her and then,Kenyon.
Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Yeah, so I covered racialized capitalism, I covered
gender.
I think you had a deepappreciation for Denim Elliott's
performance as Coleman, becausethere's so much that he had to
provide to the viewer nonverbally and that that he pulled
off and that was really lovelyin many ways to kind of
(01:00:24):
underscore his humanity, whichonce again was subverted by
those fine, that final scene,the structure of the thing has
this weird interlude that wasjust supposed to be funny and
didn't age.
Well, that's the whole thing.
On the train with the disguises, I'm trying to think what else
did we want?
Did I want to make sure this?
For you personally, em, it'sreally fascinating to me that
(01:00:48):
the whole, the whole plot lineabout the investing became so
important to you as, like,you're a member of the grownup
club, because once youunderstood how the short sale
worked, that you understood whata bookie was, those sorts of
things.
And even outside of that, again,this kind of push-pull on
capitalism that this film hasgiven us there's, on the one
(01:01:10):
hand, it's just betting, butdone in a polite way and hurting
a lot more people, and on theother hand, from the final
moments, like, yeah, so play thegame, play it well, win.
That was the moral, yeah, yeah,in terms of the racialized
capitalism to the racializedsociety in general, and the
(01:01:33):
example of Don Amici who was soloathe to say the F word on
camera and either didn't mindsaying the N word on camera or
nobody thought it was noteworthyto say that he didn't want to
say it.
Either way is a little bitdamning of our society and the
racism that was just taken forgranted in 83,.
(01:01:56):
Despite the ways in which thisfilm takes on I'm putting quotes
around takes on the racializedaspects of capitalism and
classism, final thoughts orthings that I missed.
Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
I just want to mention like this is more fluff
than anything the screenwriters.
It was a screenwriting teamTimothy Harris and Herschel
Weingrad.
Timothy Harris went on to writea number of screenplays.
I thought it was interestingthat this and Brewster's
Millions were his two firstmovies, so this is someone who
(01:02:31):
also has interesting thoughtsabout money.
But he and Weingrad wrote Twins, kindergarten Cop and Space Jam
, so like very successfulcomedic movie writers yeah, I
just found that reallyinteresting.
The other thing I thought waskind of funny because I was
looking them up on wikipediaherschel weingrad it was saying
like it was interesting becausehe was born in milwaukee I was
(01:02:52):
like oh that's cool.
And then he says, like hisparents are of jewish descent.
I was like.
His name is herschel weingraud.
Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
It's also interesting .
I thought he was Irish.
Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
Yeah, it's also interesting, even that phrase of
Jewish descent, Unless they'resort of saying they weren't
practicing.
Is it libelous to say someone'sJewish Anyway?
Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
yeah, so next time you're bringing someone to share
something with us.
Speaker 2 (01:03:18):
Yes, my friend Joanna is going to come on to talk to
us about veronica mars, which Inever watched.
Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
I think you did, though at least a little bit.
I did.
I.
I binged the first two seasons,um, about five years ago, um,
and then I watched like thefirst three or four episodes of
the third season.
Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
I was like I'm out, I don't want to know what happens
next well, we will talk aboutthat and why you noped out with
my friend Joanna next timeAwesome.
Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
And I think you have a listener comment for us, oh
yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
When I posted on social media about Reality Bites
, I asked my friends who wouldplay them in the biopic, since
Winona Ryder was my choice forso long, and my friend Christoph
responded that he's pretty surethat this guy would play it,
and he posted a picture ofCookie Monster.
Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
So thanks, Christoph.
We should all be so lucky as tohave Cookie Monster play us in
the biopic.
Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
All right, well, listeners, if you have deep
thoughts about our deep thoughts, please share them with us.
We really want to hear it.
So you can reach us atguygirlsmedia at gmailcom.
You can go to our website,guygirlsmediacom, and go to our
listener forum and please signup for our emails, which you can
then reply to.
Or you can find us on socials.
Yeah, either under our names orunder guy girls media.
(01:04:41):
All right, well, next time,ma'am, next time.
Do you like stickers?
Sure, we all do.
If you head over toguygirlsmediacom, slash, sign up
and share your address with us,we'll send you a sticker.
It really is that easy, butdon't wait, there's a limited
quantity.
Thanks for listening.
(01:05:02):
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin MacLeod from
incompetechcom.
Find full music credits in theshow notes.
Until next time, remember, popculture is still culture, and
shouldn't you know what's inyour head?
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