Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Sleep issues
represent a major struggle for
millions of people Too littlesleep, trouble falling asleep,
trouble staying asleep, earlymorning awakenings followed by
difficulty falling back asleep.
Some people complain that,despite having a full night of
sleep, they awake feeling likethey didn't sleep at all,
struggling with sleepiness, fogand fatigue all through waking
(00:29):
hours.
There are also knownassociations between health
conditions such as irritablebowel syndrome and Parkinson's
disease with disruptions ofsleep.
The science that explores therole of gastrointestinal
microbes in sleep are yieldingnew and exciting lessons.
Recently, for instance, lack ofsleep has been shown to
adversely impact the compositionof the GI microbiome.
(00:50):
That is, there's abidirectional crosstalk the
brain communicates with the gut,the gut communicates with the
brain in ways that influencesleep.
But new observations are alsoemerging from our fermentation
projects, especially our yogurts, in which we ferment unique
microbial species to very highcounts, increasing the number of
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microbes a hundred or even athousand fold Efforts that are
yielding new lessons that havenot yet been formally described
in human scientific studies.
So let's discuss some of theseinteresting lessons that are
emerging involving sleep andlater in the podcast let's talk
about Defiant Health sponsorsPaleo Valley, our preferred
(01:31):
provider for many excellentorganic and grass-fed food
products and BioDequest, mynumber one choice for probiotics
that are scientificallyformulated, unlike most of the
other commercial probioticproducts available today.
Just over the last few years,it's becoming clearer and
clearer that thegastrointestinal microbiome
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plays a major role indetermining sleep, how long we
sleep, how well we sleep, thepatterns that occur during sleep
.
But think how much time we'vewasted trying to use drugs like
sleeping pills, benzodiazepinesand other things that really
don't do anything for themicrobiome that is the cause for
sleep disturbances, or manysleep disturbances.
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It's become clear that themicrobiome, the gastrointestinal
microbiome, influences sleep bya variety of mechanisms.
That includes the so-calledgut-brain axis, the vagus nerve,
by generating blood-bornemetabolites and by disruption of
the circadian rhythm.
So let's run through some ofthese new and emerging insights
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in how the gastrointestinalmicrobiome plays a major role in
influencing the quality andquantity of sleep.
Those of you who have beenfollowing my conversations know
that we talk a lot about themicrobe lactobacillus reuteri, a
microbe that virtually all ofus have lost because it is very
susceptible to commonantibiotics.
So even if you took your lastantibiotic 10 or 20 years ago,
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maybe a moxicillin for an upperrespiratory infection or a
urinary tract infection,lactobacillus rhodoridae is very
susceptible to commonantibiotics and it disappeared
from your gastrointestinalmicrobiome.
You may recall that themicrobiologist who first
discovered this species in 1962,dr Gerhard Reuter, who isolated
it from the breast milk of abreastfeeding mother in Germany,
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he remarked back then that itwas easy to find in breast milk
and stool and other bodysecretions.
Over his 40-year academiccareer he found it increasingly
difficult to find this microbeanymore in any body fluid.
In fact, by the end of hiscareer he found that almost
nobody had it and this has beencorroborated several times by
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other research groups.
That lactobacillus roteri hasessentially disappeared from the
modern gastrointestinalmicrobiome, and recall that it
is a ubiquitous microbe in otherpopulations, such as
hunter-gatherer humanpopulations in New Guinea or the
Brazilian rainforest.
They all have lactobacillusrhodori because they've not been
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exposed to antibiotics andother factors.
Other mammals like moose anddeer and gophers and beavers
they all have lactobacillusreuterite, also suggesting that
this species, this microbialspecies, is essential for
mammalian health.
But back to this issue of sleep,lactobacillus reuterite.
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That is an observation thatI've made and many people in my
audience have made, convertingmany of us from struggling with
sleep or, for me personally, achronic insomniac for decades,
now sleep straight through thenight, with rare awakenings,
likely due to the oxytocin boostthat roteri provides when it
takes up resins in the GI tract.
It's a sleep effect only abouthalf of us experience when we
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restore lactobacillus roteri.
Why doesn't everybodyexperience this effect?
Well, it's not quite clear, butwe can speculate that maybe
some people, the occasionalperson, already has
lactobacillus roteri, but that'suncommon.
Another would be variation inthe response of the brain to
produce oxytocin withrestoration of rhodori.
Or perhaps it's some variationsuch as maybe some people are
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more susceptible to increasingmelatonin release with oxytocin.
So this is an area ripe forresearch.
But know that you have access toa microbe, lactobacillus
rhodori, that we make intoyogurt.
We do that because we want toincrease the microbial counts.
It's not yogurt, of course.
It looks and smells like yogurt.
You cannot buy it in a store.
But we use long fermentation insome vehicle, typically organic
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, half and half.
We do that for 36 hours toallow this microbe to double.
Remember microbes don't havesex right.
There's no male and femalemicrobes, they just double
themselves.
Lactobacillus roterite doublesevery three hours at human body
temperature.
So we allow it to double 12times.
And when we count the number ofmicrobes via something called
flow cytometry, a laser-assistedmicrobial counting process, we
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get around 300 billion microbesper half cup serving.
That may be also part of thereason why we get such great
effects by restoring roteri athigh doses.
Another microbe that has provenvery helpful and once again not
described in the scientificliterature yet is Lactobacillus
casei, and specifically theshirota strain, available as a
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commercial product called YakultY-A-K-U-L-T that you find in
little plastic containers in therefrigerator aisle of most
major grocery stores.
Now the product itself is notvery good because it's made with
skim milk and lots of sugar.
So we don't drink the Yakultproduct, we just use it as a
source for this microbe and youcan ferment it.
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You can ferment it by itself oryou can ferment it with
lactobacillus rhodori sametemperature, same amount of time
and this yields profound sleepfor many people.
For me personally, I did thisand I had to stop it because I
was sleeping 12 hours a night asa chronic insomniac, so I had
to stop it.
But many people who don't getthe really over-the-top effect
of Roteri may benefit by addinglactobacillus casei.
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You can try it by itself,though I feel that Roteri is so
important to your overall healthand well-being, that we should
never abandon consumption ofLactobacillus Roteri until such
time we figure out how topermanently reimplant it.
But we don't know how to dothat just yet.
So combining LactobacillusRoteri with Lactobacillus KCI
Sherota strain can be a hugeeffect in cultivating healthy
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sleep.
Another important microbe forsleep is lactobacillus gasseri,
and this seems to be true ofmany strains, not just one
strain.
But it appears to reduce sleepdisruptions that are caused by
stress.
In other words, people havefinancial stress, personal
stress and thereby struggle tofall asleep or stay asleep.
(07:43):
Lactobacillus gastrate appearsto reduce those sleep
disruptions.
Melatonin is an issue here, notorally ingested melatonin, but
orally ingested melatonin hasbeen shown to remold or improve
the composition of thegastrointestinal microbiome.
So that's one thing, but wehave to recognize that the
gastrointestinal microbialspecies produce far greater
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quantities of melatonin than thepineal gland that we ordinarily
think of as a source ofmelatonin.
In fact, it's thegastrointestinal microbiome that
produces hundreds of timesgreater quantities of melatonin.
That thereby suggests thatdysbiosis, that is, disruptions
of the microbial species in thecolon, as well as SIBO small
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intestinal bacterial overgrowth,s-i-b-o may reduce the number
of microbes that are able toproduce melatonin and that may
underlie sleep disruptions andleads to increased risk for such
conditions as Alzheimer'sdementia.
So let's go through that again.
So it's loss of beneficialspecies that characterize
colonic dysbiosis or SIBO smallintestinal bacterial overgrowth
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that in turn cause a reductionin the production of melatonin
and lead to other diseases likedementia that may underlie a lot
of sleep disruptions.
And, by the way, melatonin oralsupplementation can be a useful
way to recultivate the healthyspecies that in turn produce
more melatonin.
(09:10):
So melatonin may work, at leastin part, by favorable
modulation of thegastrointestinal microbiome.
Another phenomenon we'reexperiencing and this is not
reported in the scientificliterature, this is anecdotal
but among many people is theincrease in the intensity and
frequency of so-called alphadreams.
But you may notice that you'rehaving more vivid dreams in that
(09:31):
early phase of sleep.
That likely reflects a numberof positive changes in the
microbiome that result from allthe things we do, like
restoration of lactobacillusreuteri and other small
(09:52):
intestinal colonizing species,their production of bactericids
that reduces the number of fecalmicrobes in the small intestine
and colon, and production ofbutyrate, the fatty acid that
facilitates better sleep.
And there may be other reasons,but many of us are experiencing
an increase in these so-calledalpha dreams, dreams that
(10:13):
materialize just at the onset ofsleep.
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.
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There's also a very interestingphenomenon called alpha-delta
sleep, and all that means isearly sleep, as I mentioned, is
characterized by so-called alphawaves on an EEG.
Deep sleep is characterized bya different kind of wave called
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delta wave sleep.
That's deep sleep like phasefour REM type sleep.
That's where a lot ofreorganization of memory occurs.
Consolidation of memory andbetter emotional health emerges
from having lots and lots ofdeep sleep.
That's one of the reasons, bythe way, that people with sleep
apnea have such awful healthissues, including emotional,
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psychological issues, becausethey are deprived of the deep
delta phase of sleep.
In some people there's an oddsituation where during delta
sleep, when they should be deepasleep, it's intruded by alpha
type waves.
This is called alpha deltasleep.
So these are people who saythings like this I slept an
entire night, like eight hoursor more, but I woke up feeling
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like I didn't sleep at all.
So it's a disruptive phenomenonwhen alpha waves interrupt or
invade delta forms of sleep, andthis is driven by endotoxemia.
So those of you new to thisconversation need to know that
when fecal microbes like E colior salmonella and other species
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from the colon invade the 24feet of small intestine and then
take up residence and produceendotoxins, a component of their
cell walls, that are releasedwhen they die.
So these fecal microbes in the24 feet of small intestine,
turning over very rapidly theyonly live for a few hours
release these toxic compoundsinto the intestinal lumen, into
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the intestine internal contents,and these endotoxins gain entry
into the bloodstream, becausethe small intestine is, by
design, very permeable, becausethat's where we're supposed to
absorb things like vitamins,minerals, fatty acids, amino
acids.
So the small intestinecontaining a lot of endotoxin
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that then in turn enters thebloodstream and that endotoxemia
high levels of endotoxin fromfecal microbes in the small
intestine causes thisalpha-delta sleep.
So the solution, of course, isto address the endotoxemia and
not take a sleeping pill rightNow.
Another phenomenon important tosleep is the proliferation or
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the presence of lactobacillusand bifidobacteria species.
These are the species that wecultivate by doing such things
as consuming lots and lots offermented foods and probiotics
and our yogurts and otherfermented projects.
So recall that, even thoughfermented foods like sauerkraut
or kimchi have species likeLeukonostoc mesenteroides or
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Pediococcus pentasaceus, theseare microbes that don't take up
residence in the GI tract, theyjust pass through after you
consume that food but theysomehow, by an uncertain
mechanism, cultivate, promotethe proliferation and
colonization of lactobacillusand bifidobacteria species.
So in other words, consumptionof fermented foods increases
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so-called species diversity, thenumber of beneficial microbes
in the gastrointestinalmicrobiome.
When you increase thepopulations of lactobacillus and
bifidobacteria they convert.
Among their many effects isthey convert the amino acid
glutamate to GABA.
That is an inhibitory factorthat facilitates sleep.
So let me run through thatagain.
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All the efforts we make torecultivate, to increase the
populations of beneficiallactobacillus and bifidobacteria
species, many of them not justone or two strains, but many
species help convert glutamateto the relaxing or inhibitory
GABA compound.
So all the efforts we make tocultivate healthy
gastrointestinal microbiome viaa GABA-driven mechanism further
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cultivate better sleep.
Another phenomenon to be awareof are what I call cortisol
awakenings.
That is, if you're in a realstressful time of your life
financial stress, emotionalstress, family stress, maybe you
have a parent who's decliningand you have to take care of
this parent, or you have a childwith learning disabilities,
whatever.
A lot of stress, prolonged,serious stress, not momentary
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stress, but prolonged, sustainedstress tends to shift cortisol
behavior.
So recall that cortisol ismeant to be released by the
adrenal glands in the morning tohelp you wake up.
So this occurs along with otherhormones like norepinephrine
and epinephrine.
These are excitatory hormonesto help you become awake.
When people who are stressed thetiming of that morning surge
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can be mistimed and often occurstoo early occur, for instance,
at 2 am or 3 am.
That causes you to wake up andthen struggle to fall back
asleep.
It's not uncommon for someoneto sit awake in bed or watch TV
or read a book for hours afterthey awaken.
It's very disruptive becauseit's very difficult to obtain a
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full night's sleep when thishappens.
Now, one thing we cannot dowith our current knowledge, our
current insights into themicrobiome, is change that
timing.
In other words, can we shift itfrom 2 am to 7 am or something
like that?
To my knowledge, no one knowshow to do that, nobody in the
alternative world, no one in theconventional world.
The only thing we canaccomplish right now is to
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subdue or reduce the magnitudeof that cortisol surge.
And there are two microbes thatare very helpful, two I've
mentioned Lactobacillus rhoderi,very helpful in suppressing
abnormal cortisol surges, andLactobacillus gasseri, also very
effective in suppressingcortisol surges.
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So you may still have atendency to wake up in the
middle of the night, but itshould be less marked.
So, until we find a way toshift the timing, this is kind
of a second best in introducedmicrobes that are known to
suppress the abnormal rises incortisol.
And then, lastly, another majorinfluence on the quality and
duration of sleep is butyrate,that is, butyric acid, a fatty
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acid that is the likely mediator, at least of some of the
effects of a circadian rhythm.
That is the rhythm we allfollow to suit our lives on this
planet, with a 24-hour timecycle so that we sleep at night
we're awake during the day.
A lot of that is determined.
That circadian rhythm isdetermined, likely by butyrate,
maybe other factors alsoButyrate is a major player.
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So one of the things you can doto cultivate better sleep is to
cultivate what are calledbutyrogenic species, that is,
species in the gastrointestinalmicrobiome that are producers of
butyrate or butyric acid.
So this means we're going tocultivate beneficial butyrogenic
species such as Fecalobacteriumprosnitzii, lachnosporaceous
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species, ruminicacaceous species, acromantius species.
So these are microbes wecultivate.
Then we feed them.
We feed them with prebioticfibers and related compounds,
especially inulin that comesfrom onions, garlic, shallots,
green, unripe banana, rootvegetables.
We feed ourselves with thesefibers that in turn cause
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proliferation of butyrogenicspecies like Fecalobacterium,
and then we also consume thesefibers that cause these microbes
to produce butyrate.
A common observation in manypeople is that when they add
prebiotic fiber such as inulinand other sources like root
vegetables and legumes, theyexperience an increase in vivid
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childlike dreams and the depthof sleep.
And many people who wear theseactigraphic devices such as an
Apple Watch or an Aura Ring andmany other of these devices that
indirectly quantify thequantity of deep sleep.
Many have noticed about a 15 ormore percent increase in the
duration of deep phases of sleep, which in turn leads to better
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emotional health, better copingwith stress and then also an
overall improved sleepexperience and thereby daytime
functioning.
So there you have it.
The gastrointestinal microbe isproving to be a major influence
on the quality and duration ofsleep, and I've given you
several strategies you can putto use to gain better sleep and
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try to get away from such thingsas sleeping pills or just
having disrupted sleep withimpaired daytime functioning.
Now, if you learned somethingfrom this episode of the Defiant
Health Podcast, I urge you tosubscribe through your favorite
podcast directory.
Post a review, post a comment.
Let's help build this movementof self-empowerment in health
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and getting away from relianceon conventional health care.
Thanks for listening.