January 12, 2024 • 29 mins
Steve shares how communication and trust are the cornerstones to creating a corporate culture where people come first and can advocate for themselves. He discusses the importance of self-care and wellness and why he advocates for mental health and co-founded Ben's Friends. He talks about why passion and grit can take you far and how you tackle obstacles can propel your career forward.
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Episode Transcript
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Rachel Humphrey (00:01):
I am Rachel Humphrey with DEI Advisors and I
am excited to be joined today bySteve Palmer, the founder of the
Indigo Road Hospitality Group.
Steve, welcome to the show.
Steve Palmer (00:11):
Hi there.
Thanks for having me.
Rachel Humphrey (00:13):
I am very excited because as our audience
knows, I spend a lot of timetalking to hotel people, but the
hospitality industry is muchbroader than that.
And I'm excited today to sit andtalk restaurants and the other
side of hospitality a little bitwith you, but that segues
perfectly into your journey toleadership for all leaders in
the hospitality industry.
(00:33):
There is not one path of gettingfrom point A to point B.
Tell us a little bit about yourjourney, how you started out and
got to where you are today.
Steve Palmer (00:43):
Sure.
I am.
I am the school of hard knocksguy for sure.
Started washing dishes inAtlanta when I was 13.
Was a line cook a bartender, awaiter, a manager, a sommelier.
Worked for Ritz Carlton Hotelsin the 90s for a while always in
food and beverage.
I think, the one thing that, andit's one of the things I love
(01:04):
about hospitality is I've done alot of different types of food
and beverage.
I've done resorts, city hotels,independent freestanding.
And there's always a newopportunity in hospitality,
right?
There's always a different way.
But the thing that I think thatI did well early in my career is
I always chose what I thought atthe time to be great companies,
(01:28):
great restaurants, great hotels.
I always chose what I perceivedas the next step, even if it
wasn't always a next step incompensation.
If it was the next step inlearning and opportunity, then I
always have chosen that.
I feel like I've always chosengood leaders because I wanted to
(01:51):
learn about leadership at a veryearly age.
The idea of inspiring otherpeople and, really
fundamentally, I think.
Which is true in all hospitalityis the idea of taking care of
people.
And I'm a people pleaser bynature.
I derive an enormous amount ofsatisfaction by knowing I made
someone happy.
(02:11):
And to find hospitality and torealize that.
Wow.
I can make someone happy andI'll get paid proportional to
their happiness.
It's pretty, pretty good life.
I never, this was before thefood network and top chef and
foodies and Instagram, I neversaw serving other people.
As a second class job I alwaysfelt like it was a noble job.
(02:34):
I was proud of it.
Still am.
But the idea that I could sharethat, I think it's fun to, I
think it's mostly true with allof us.
If you have something that youlove and you're passionate about
it.
I think a natural extension ofthat is sharing that with other
people.
And that to me is whatleadership is.
It's about sharing my love ofhospitality.
(02:57):
I always say that leadership isan act of service and that, my
role is to make sure that theteam around me feels empowered,
supported, inspired.
And then largely, there's also amoment as a leader to get out of
their way so they can flourish,but any time I see leaders where
(03:17):
you can tell for them leadershipis an act of authority that's
disheartening because it'suninspiring.
autocratic or dictatorialleaders that are coming from a
place of ego.
Look at how great I am insteadof what can I do to make my
team's life better.
And yeah, for me, my journey toleadership is about
(03:37):
understanding that leadership isan act of service at the very
deepest level.
Rachel Humphrey (03:43):
I love that.
So many nuggets in there.
I love the idea of not everystep forward looks like a step
forward from compensation fromtitle from opportunity, but in
some way advances your career.
I think a lot of people get heldup on title or compensation as
the only way to advance.
So that's a great one.
Of course.
Also the Thought of being inservice to others as an
(04:06):
industry.
The hospitality industry is hereto serve and also looking at the
team approach and the way thatyou do lead.
And that's actually a perfectsegue because when I talk to
people about you, the number onething that everybody tells me is
he is really known for corporateculture, for building a great
team, for developing talent, foridentifying talent and being a
(04:28):
place that people want to work.
And to me, that is an.
I want to turn it to the otherside that if somebody came to
you from that team and felt likethey were really having a hard
time advocating for themselvesat their role, what would you
tell them to do as far as how toapproach leadership, whether
(04:50):
it's a coworker, a manager, evensomeone higher up than that in
terms of advocating forthemselves?
Steve Palmer (04:57):
Sure.
One of our core values istransparency and humility.
And, I often tell folks, listen,if I say, how are you today and
you say, fine, I believe you.
I think you have to, in orderfor people to feel safe
advocating for themselves, therehas to be trust.
(05:18):
Trust without trust on a teamyou have nothing because, if
somebody doesn't feel like theycan find their own voice and say
look I'm not getting what I needto grow, or I feel like I would
be better served in a differentrole.
Then ultimately they're going toleave, right?
And I always talk about like thething I hate the most is when
(05:41):
someone lets us know they'reunhappy by giving their notice,
right?
But it's incumbent on us tocreate.
A culture of communication.
One-on-ones we do an anonymousemployee satisfaction survey
every year where our employeesreview us and they can do it
anonymously so they can feelsafe, to be honest.
(06:03):
But it's a daily practice.
And I, we, early on in thecompany's history, I do
leadership retreats every yearand a lot of those retreats are
collaborative in nature and I'mallowing everyone in the room to
decide how we're going to growor what changes to make in our
first conference, there was fivepeople this year.
(06:26):
Next 200.
And really what we got down towas, why are we successful?
It's our people.
Okay.
A lot of people would say that,right?
What is it about our people?
And we identified the thingsthat we thought somebody needed
to possess to work with us.
And 100 percent of what we cameto was not technical skill.
(06:49):
It was not resume.
It was not.
It was emotional qualities,collaborative spirit, passion,
drive and work ethic, curiousintelligence.
And so then we startedinterviewing for those
qualities.
So oftentimes, not often,hopefully, but sometimes you'll
have a great person in the wrongrole, right?
(07:10):
And so many companies are,you're just not, they're just
not doing the job.
They're not hitting these marks.
We've coached and counseledthem.
It's time to let them go or theyget discouraged and they get
disenchanted and they leave.
But if you've hired rightoftentimes I think developing
people requires having a broaderview than the role that they're
(07:33):
doing today.
Sometimes it's not, but I thinkthat it's two things.
It's creating a trustingenvironment where employees feel
like they can advocate forthemselves.
And then it's also being able tosee the person for who they are
as a person and realize thatsometimes it's about developing
them into a different role.
Rachel Humphrey (07:52):
I love the combination of communication and
trust too.
So important in any type ofleadership.
100%.
As we come out of the pandemic,especially there has been a
renewed focus on self care andwellness, but that is not a
renewed focus for you.
That's actually somewhere thatyou have devoted a tremendous
portion of your career.
(08:13):
You're a strong advocatepublicly for mental health
awareness, and you have talkedabout a lot of your addiction
struggles publicly in a lot ofdifferent forums.
What advice would you give tosomeone who is struggling to
take care of themselves fromwhatever aspect?
That looks like.
Steve Palmer (08:30):
Sure.
I think that first off,hopefully you're in an
organization that values mentalhealth and wellness.
We are and all of the ways thatwe demonstrate that on a daily
basis you know, happy and wholeemployees are good for
everybody.
It's good for the human, it'sgood for our hotels and
restaurants.
It's good for our guests.
(08:50):
I think that too often.
And I say this in the hopes thatwe're moving towards a different
environment.
But you meet hospitalityemployees that worked in toxic
environments.
And so mental health equalsgetting out of the industry.
And, we need more people to wantto work in hospitality, not
last.
(09:10):
So I think that first andforemost, you need to be in an
environment where if taking careof yourself is not something
that is well received by yourleaders than perhaps a different
organization.
But it doesn't mean that allhospitality lacks that empathy
and compassion.
I think that realizing that youcan do both, you can work hard.
(09:34):
Be in a fast paced environmentand take care of yourself.
I think that any leaders thatare, we regularly in our hotels
and restaurants are talkingabout mental health.
You can't just say we're mentalhealth advocates.
It's a daily practice.
Of course, we have our nonprofitBen's friends that's in 25
(09:54):
cities in America.
But and that specifically.
Addresses addiction.
We also have fitness programs,gym memberships we have alcohol
free environments.
So the age old shot, shift,drink shot at the end of the
bar.
We just don't do any of thatbecause we're trying to create a
more whole healthy environment.
But I always tell people, youhave to take care of yourself.
(10:17):
first, especially if you're inthe business of taking care of
other people.
If you're not filling your owntank, there's no way that you
can fill somebody else's.
Rachel Humphrey (10:26):
I say a lot that a lantern needs fuel to
shine brightly.
And if your lantern has runempty, you are not going to be
your best.
Collaborate or your bestemployee, your best parent,
whatever it is.
You mentioned Ben's friends andI wanna talk about that for a
minute.
You're the co-founder of anorganization that does
incredible work within yourrestaurant communities.
(10:47):
Tell us a little bit about theorganization, but also as a
leader, how did you know thatyou were the right.
Person for this initiative?
Steve Palmer (10:55):
Sure.
Ben Murray was a chef of oursthat sadly during an opening of
a restaurant, he committedsuicide in his hotel room and
none of us knew he wasstruggling.
Ben was not.
You would not have attached theword depressed to Ben.
Ben was happy and outgoing andkind and lovely.
(11:17):
And when I'll never forget as Icalled his 80 year old mother to
have that conversation.
She shared with me that Ben hadbeen in and out of detox six
times and we had no idea.
And so my co founder, MickeyBaxter and I were both sober.
I'm in recovery.
We had been saying over and overagain, we need to do something
(11:40):
for the industry.
And then it was always we're toobusy.
We've got this going on.
So obviously when Ben committedsuicide, we said we're not too
busy.
But I'll tell you that And Ihope this encourages others to
find ways to help.
We believe that Ben's Friendswould be a local Charleston
support group.
(12:01):
It's run by people who are soberin hospitality for people who
want to get sober inhospitality.
We are in 25 cities across thenation.
We have 21 Zoom meetings a week.
We had no idea that it wouldbecome all that it has become.
And I say that to your questionabout knowing I was the person.
(12:26):
Anybody is the person if theywant to help and they're coming
from a good place, we are veryfocused on addiction substance
abuse because that's, I say I'mnot a addiction expert or a
recovery expert, but that's mystory.
So I have my story to share withother people.
We absolutely couldn't havepredicted the response.
(12:48):
The and Ben's friends is now somuch bigger than Mickey or there
are, okay.
We have leaders in every city.
It's a national organization.
And it's only six, six and ahalf years old.
I believe if you have a heartfor helping, then find a way to
help.
And for us, I love our industry.
I can't say it enough.
I love what I do.
(13:09):
I love the people in ourindustry that do what they do.
So what could be better thanhelping those people be
productive members of thehospitality industry?
Rachel Humphrey (13:19):
What a powerful message that such a
heartbreaking loss has resultedin such an incredible community
activation across the country.
And so thank you both forsharing that story, but also in
sharing your time and youraddiction story that then
empowers others to do the same.
We've talked a little bit aboutAdvocating for yourself, self
(13:40):
care and wellness, things likethat.
But every time I'm getting readyfor an interview or to moderate
an industry panel, people comeup to me and say, what I really
want to know is how leaders areleading today.
I want to know if they answertheir own email.
Do they calendar or use their EAfor things?
Are they taking vacation?
Do they work 24 seven?
(14:00):
I want to hear from the insideand whether when you talk about
work life harmony, you aretalking about parenting or a
spouse or gardening or readingor whatever it is.
It can be lots of things to lotsof people.
How do you think you do managingsome sort of harmony between
your career and having thingsoutside of that career?
Steve Palmer (14:22):
Sure.
I have obviously 30 plus yearsin, have worked hours, I've
worked a lot of seven day weeks.
I've also traveled a lot.
I've also been to greatrestaurants all over the world.
I believe strongly that if youare in the business of serving
others, if you're not allowingyourself to be served, your tank
(14:44):
is going to run out eventually.
Whether I was an assistantmanager or a food and beverage
director or the founder of acompany, I have always traveled
to eat and to stay in hotels andto feel inspired.
I demand that from my team.
I literally, I have a couple ofsenior leaders that I'm going to
(15:06):
write you up if you don't take aweek off.
You have to do it.
And anybody that doesn't.
Understand that you're not yourbest self when you're burned
out.
Our company is, has grown.
We've grown aggressively thisyear.
It will be one of our biggestyears ever.
(15:26):
There's no doubt.
People are going to feel burnedout and frustrated and tired if
you're not as a leaderadvocating for that for others
but you also have to demonstratethat and my team sees me take
time off and I'm a dad to a 13year old girl who has horse
shows all over the south andthey see me going to the horse
(15:47):
shows and they see me doing, soI think, first you have to model
it for your teams.
But no one should feel guiltyabout taking.
That's just silly.
I just the week before Christmasand New Year's, I turned my
email off.
First time in 30 years, I turnedit off.
I just, you know what?
It'll be there when I get back.
(16:07):
I had 2, 700 emails when I gothome and some people would say
that would be more stressful forme.
But can you unplug and you haveto unplug because I think travel
gives you perspective.
I think time off gives you adifferent view.
Maybe you've been stuck on anissue.
You don't know how to solve.
(16:29):
gRinding another day instead oftaking a day off may not be the
answer you're looking for, buttaking time, I'm always reading
books about our industry.
You just have to commit to it.
I don't have a, it's everybodywill shake their head and then
they'll go back to not takingtime, but you have to have
balance.
All I was going to say is, whatare you doing it for if you're
(16:53):
not, so if you can enjoy yourtime, just that I
Rachel Humphrey (17:00):
love traveling to be inspired.
That's such a great way ofputting that also modeling.
You're absolutely right.
It's very easy to tell others todo it, but if they don't see you
doing it, whether, and one ofthe things we hear too is
announced loudly what you'redoing.
Oh, I'm going to a horse show.
Oh, I'm going on vacation.
Don't sneak out the back door sothat people can see.
(17:20):
See that it is accepted andencouraged and everything else.
So that's a great piece ofadvice too.
As we look to today sitting onan interview like this, you do a
lot of public speaking, whetherit's community activities,
conferences.
Webinars and other types ofthings.
Have you always been comfortablewith it?
You're incredibly talented atit.
(17:41):
Are you comfortable with it?
Is it something you had to teachyourself?
We hear all the time that publicspeaking can often be one of the
biggest hurdles that people findin their path as they're trying
to advance their careers.
Steve Palmer (17:54):
That's interesting.
So what's.
Funny to me is right before Italk, I'll say, man, I'm so
nervous.
And whether it's my wife sittingnext to me, people are genuinely
surprised that I'm nervous.
Because I do a lot of publicspeaking.
And so they assume, oh this mustjust be fallen.
(18:15):
When I did my Ted talk, I, whenI was done and I will say that
the organizers of Ted, it's verystructured.
It's we rehearsed, I was filmed,they gave feedback.
I felt a little bit like I was,auditioning for a beauty pageant
because it turned this way andthey were all great, and.
(18:37):
When I got done with my TedTalk, I walked immediately off
the stage out the side door andstarted crying because it was
such an emotional thing.
And there had been so much buildup to it that I literally sat
down on the ground outside andwas just, I say all of that to
say that I love speaking.
(18:59):
I'm always talking aboutsomething I'm passionate about.
So comes from the heart.
I'm not giving a sales pitch ordata on, and I know that they're
that kind of public speaking isvaluable as well.
So I'm mostly talking abouthospitality, people and mental
(19:19):
health, which are things.
But It's funny you mentionedthat because some of my
teammates, I'm now, Hey, I'dlike for you to go speak at this
thing.
I'd like for you to go.
And my director of financialoperations is a little is more
introverted than I am.
And so he was on PBS a couple ofweeks ago and he was so nervous.
(19:41):
And what do I say?
And this and that?
And I just kept saying.
The only questions they're goingto ask you is about what you do
every day of your life.
There's not, there's no trickquestion coming.
And afterwards he came back andwas like, it was like, that was
really cool.
Can I do some more of that?
I Would say to those that like,aren't as comfortable with it.
(20:05):
It's muscle memory.
You just have to do it a lot.
Being on a panel where you'rejust getting asked questions
from a moderator, that's a greatway to dip your toe in because
then you're not having toprepare a speech.
You're not, you're just, it'sjust Q and a, but if you can do
that a few times before you'rethe lone person on the stage I
(20:26):
think it's pretty helpful, butmy Ted talk was the most
nervous.
There were a thousand people inthe theater, it was a lot.
Rachel Humphrey (20:34):
Yeah, a lot for even a seasoned speaker.
And I think that you raised somegreat points speaking about
things that, you know, and thatyou're passionate about.
So choosing the right speakingopportunities is really
important.
But also your first timespeaking does not have to be in
front of a.
crowd of 6, 000 at a conference,you can make a toast at a family
dinner, you can have a meeting,a staff meeting where you raise
(20:57):
your hand and say something.
I think people don't realizethat there's a lot of points
between A and Z of opportunitiesto practice because you're
right.
I still get nervous and I do itall the time and I love it, but
it doesn't mean that I'm notnervous before I do it.
At
Steve Palmer (21:12):
our leadership conference where I'm just
speaking to our teammates, I'llbe nervous.
Rachel Humphrey (21:17):
Yeah, I think it's good.
I like nerves.
I think nerves are verymotivating.
We hear a lot nowadays, whichyou and I did not when we were
first coming up about personalbrands.
I know I have some personalmantras that guide me.
Do you think that you have amantra that is your guiding star
or something about you that youwould say?
(21:38):
This is my personal brand.
Steve Palmer (21:41):
Yeah, I, yes.
And I, even I struggled with theword brand for a long time
because that felt corporate.
And I don't struggle with thatanymore because it is my brand.
I'm the founder of the company.
Yeah.
I, if you said distill it alldown to one sentence or a quote,
maybe that's a bet.
(22:04):
People will forget what yousaid, they will forget what you
did, but they'll never forgethow you made them feel.
We define hospitality as how wemake people feel.
When I'm doing orientations,I'll say, I just had done one at
10 o'clock.
If you don't remember anythingelse I said, remember that the
way we make each other feel isthe most important thing.
I'm always, surprised,discouraged when I, when you
(22:27):
hear about a hospitalityoperation, where the employees
are not having a hospitableexperience.
I'm so okay, so I'm going toyell and scream at you now go
make everybody happy it's justso unfortunate, but yeah, my
mantra, my brand, the thing thatis the foundation of my success
(22:48):
in our success at the Indigoroad is the way we make each
other feel is the most importantthing.
Rachel Humphrey (22:55):
It sounds very consistent to corporate culture
and mental health advocacy andleading by example and modeling
all of those things.
So that's great to hear that.
That's what it comes down to.
I know we're going to run shorton time and I'm going to want to
rapid fire through some otherones because such great advice
here, but No leader gets towhere they are without
(23:16):
overcoming setbacks, obstacles,challenges and learning from
them.
Do you have a strategy when youare faced either with something
that didn't go as you hoped thatit would or an unexpected
challenge on the path thatyou're looking to accomplish?
That is really how you processand overcome challenges.
Steve Palmer (23:37):
So I have a funny saying my life has not gone the
way that I planned.
And I thank God for that everyday.
It's about, it's not about life.
It's about how you handle life,right?
It's about how we deal with whathappens to us.
Winston Churchill said somethingthat I'm a big fan of, and he
was such a controversialcharacter, but success is not
(23:58):
final.
Failure is not fatal.
It's the courage to continuethat counts.
And, there are in anyentrepreneurial I started this
company in 09 in the depths ofthe financial crisis and took
over, a restaurant that wasn'tdoing well.
And it's in those times that youlearn who you are.
(24:21):
I think all of us that have beenin leadership for a while would
say, I learned so much more frommy failures than my successes.
Absolutely.
Doesn't mean they're notpainful, but I think and you
touched on it when you mentionedBen's friends, and I say this.
In Ben's Friends a lot look atthis beautiful organization that
you all have come to value.
(24:43):
It was started because somebodycommitted suicide, right?
And that's a very extremeexample.
But I, it, the principle of itis out of the toughest stuff can
come some of the most powerful,impactful things if you allow
it.
And it's how you handle thesetbacks, the obstacles.
(25:04):
Because they are many we'redealing with some right now and
that were unforeseen 90 daysago.
And the benefit of trust and atrusting team and everybody
coming together.
But also really being rooted inthis is here to teach me a
lesson.
What do I need to learn fromthis?
I'm not being punished.
Cause I think that's how, it's,how can I make the team better?
(25:27):
And how can we move forward andlearn from this?
And so I think that if you're inleadership and you're not
expecting obstacles, you'resetting yourself up for failure.
I just the people that inspireme the most are the people that
sort of their, the foundation oftheir story was about how they
(25:48):
overcame insurmountable odds tobe successful in whatever that
looks like.
So those are the, somebody getsup on a stage and says,
everything has gone my way mywhole life and it's all been
pretty easy.
That's not nearly as inspiringas somebody that's I struggled
and I went through this and Iopened a restaurant and it
(26:10):
didn't work.
We opened a hotel and theculture was all wrong and here's
how we did, here's how we camearound.
I think it's pushing throughfear, but it really is.
That's when having a trustingteam matters the most when the
person to the left of you andthe person to the right of you
has your back and you know theyhave your back.
You're gonna get through it.
(26:30):
I love.
Rachel Humphrey (26:30):
Of course, no one goes through life without
obstacles, but I love the ideaof learning from it.
The Churchill quote, but reallysaying why is this in my path.
And now what am I going to dowith it now that I know that
it's here?
One of my favorite questions toask others and to be asked is
advice to our younger selves.
And the reason I love it so muchis I think that we are all works
(26:53):
in progress.
But reflection is a reallyimportant part of how we
continually evolve.
So as you sit here today, Whatdo you tell 21 year old Steve
either about what's in store foryou, something you wish you knew
at the time, how things work outfor you today?
What do you reflect back on andtell that young man?
Steve Palmer (27:14):
I would say two things.
I would say, remember that atyour most scariest fearful
moments.
That's right before things areabout to get good.
And it's going to go so muchbetter than you could possibly
imagine if you just hang inthere.
Rachel Humphrey (27:34):
Wow.
That's incredibly powerful.
Thank you very much for sharingthat.
as I expected, we are runningshort on time.
And given the motto of DEIAdvisors, which is to empower
personal success, is there afinal piece of advice you'd like
to offer?
Either something that we didn'tcover, something we did that you
wanted to elaborate on a littlebit more, but what would you
(27:56):
leave our audience with?
today.
Steve Palmer (27:58):
Sure.
So there's so much conversationin our industry right now about
younger generations, work ethic,attention, follow through.
This is what I love abouthospitality, that it doesn't
matter how you grew up.
It really doesn't even matter ifyou went to school, didn't go to
(28:19):
school.
I'm not saying those thingsaren't important, but if you're
willing to be a part of a teamand you're willing to work hard,
there's a place for you inhospitality and there's a place
for you to thrive.
The advice I would give is don'tquit the day before the miracle
happens.
It, this, it is a journey andI've never given up.
(28:41):
And I see people, grit is aconversation.
There's Angela Duckworth wrotean incredible book called Grit.
And it's all about.
The percentage of people thatare successful, is it based on
intelligence and education or isit based on passion and grit?
(29:01):
80 percent is about passion andgrit.
Find what you love and then doit really hard.
But stick with it.
And as long as you've chosen theright people to work with the
right things are going
Rachel Humphrey (29:13):
well.
What an incredible way to wrapup.
Steve, I'm incrediblyappreciative for your time today
for your leadership within thehospitality industry for your
amazing advocacy within yourcommunity and your team.
So thank you very much forjoining me today and for all
that you
Steve Palmer (29:29):
are doing.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate you having me.
And
Rachel Humphrey (29:33):
for our audience we know that you
enjoyed today's interview.
We hope you'll go over to DEIadvisors.
org and check out the more than150 interviews from hospitality
industry leaders, likewisesharing their journeys to
leadership and the lessons thatthey've learned along the way.
You can also stream us from yourfavorite podcast streaming
service.
Thank you again, Steve.
Steve Palmer (29:53):
Thank you.
I am Rachel Humphrey with DEI Advisors and I
am excited to be joined today bySteve Palmer, the founder of the
Indigo Road Hospitality Group.
Steve, welcome to the show.
Steve Palmer (00:11):
Hi there.
Thanks for having me.
Rachel Humphrey (00:13):
I am very excited because as our audience
knows, I spend a lot of timetalking to hotel people, but the
hospitality industry is muchbroader than that.
And I'm excited today to sit andtalk restaurants and the other
side of hospitality a little bitwith you, but that segues
perfectly into your journey toleadership for all leaders in
the hospitality industry.
(00:33):
There is not one path of gettingfrom point A to point B.
Tell us a little bit about yourjourney, how you started out and
got to where you are today.
Steve Palmer (00:43):
Sure.
I am.
I am the school of hard knocksguy for sure.
Started washing dishes inAtlanta when I was 13.
Was a line cook a bartender, awaiter, a manager, a sommelier.
Worked for Ritz Carlton Hotelsin the 90s for a while always in
food and beverage.
I think, the one thing that, andit's one of the things I love
(01:04):
about hospitality is I've done alot of different types of food
and beverage.
I've done resorts, city hotels,independent freestanding.
And there's always a newopportunity in hospitality,
right?
There's always a different way.
But the thing that I think thatI did well early in my career is
I always chose what I thought atthe time to be great companies,
(01:28):
great restaurants, great hotels.
I always chose what I perceivedas the next step, even if it
wasn't always a next step incompensation.
If it was the next step inlearning and opportunity, then I
always have chosen that.
I feel like I've always chosengood leaders because I wanted to
(01:51):
learn about leadership at a veryearly age.
The idea of inspiring otherpeople and, really
fundamentally, I think.
Which is true in all hospitalityis the idea of taking care of
people.
And I'm a people pleaser bynature.
I derive an enormous amount ofsatisfaction by knowing I made
someone happy.
(02:11):
And to find hospitality and torealize that.
Wow.
I can make someone happy andI'll get paid proportional to
their happiness.
It's pretty, pretty good life.
I never, this was before thefood network and top chef and
foodies and Instagram, I neversaw serving other people.
As a second class job I alwaysfelt like it was a noble job.
(02:34):
I was proud of it.
Still am.
But the idea that I could sharethat, I think it's fun to, I
think it's mostly true with allof us.
If you have something that youlove and you're passionate about
it.
I think a natural extension ofthat is sharing that with other
people.
And that to me is whatleadership is.
It's about sharing my love ofhospitality.
(02:57):
I always say that leadership isan act of service and that, my
role is to make sure that theteam around me feels empowered,
supported, inspired.
And then largely, there's also amoment as a leader to get out of
their way so they can flourish,but any time I see leaders where
(03:17):
you can tell for them leadershipis an act of authority that's
disheartening because it'suninspiring.
autocratic or dictatorialleaders that are coming from a
place of ego.
Look at how great I am insteadof what can I do to make my
team's life better.
And yeah, for me, my journey toleadership is about
(03:37):
understanding that leadership isan act of service at the very
deepest level.
Rachel Humphrey (03:43):
I love that.
So many nuggets in there.
I love the idea of not everystep forward looks like a step
forward from compensation fromtitle from opportunity, but in
some way advances your career.
I think a lot of people get heldup on title or compensation as
the only way to advance.
So that's a great one.
Of course.
Also the Thought of being inservice to others as an
(04:06):
industry.
The hospitality industry is hereto serve and also looking at the
team approach and the way thatyou do lead.
And that's actually a perfectsegue because when I talk to
people about you, the number onething that everybody tells me is
he is really known for corporateculture, for building a great
team, for developing talent, foridentifying talent and being a
(04:28):
place that people want to work.
And to me, that is an.
I want to turn it to the otherside that if somebody came to
you from that team and felt likethey were really having a hard
time advocating for themselvesat their role, what would you
tell them to do as far as how toapproach leadership, whether
(04:50):
it's a coworker, a manager, evensomeone higher up than that in
terms of advocating forthemselves?
Steve Palmer (04:57):
Sure.
One of our core values istransparency and humility.
And, I often tell folks, listen,if I say, how are you today and
you say, fine, I believe you.
I think you have to, in orderfor people to feel safe
advocating for themselves, therehas to be trust.
(05:18):
Trust without trust on a teamyou have nothing because, if
somebody doesn't feel like theycan find their own voice and say
look I'm not getting what I needto grow, or I feel like I would
be better served in a differentrole.
Then ultimately they're going toleave, right?
And I always talk about like thething I hate the most is when
(05:41):
someone lets us know they'reunhappy by giving their notice,
right?
But it's incumbent on us tocreate.
A culture of communication.
One-on-ones we do an anonymousemployee satisfaction survey
every year where our employeesreview us and they can do it
anonymously so they can feelsafe, to be honest.
(06:03):
But it's a daily practice.
And I, we, early on in thecompany's history, I do
leadership retreats every yearand a lot of those retreats are
collaborative in nature and I'mallowing everyone in the room to
decide how we're going to growor what changes to make in our
first conference, there was fivepeople this year.
(06:26):
Next 200.
And really what we got down towas, why are we successful?
It's our people.
Okay.
A lot of people would say that,right?
What is it about our people?
And we identified the thingsthat we thought somebody needed
to possess to work with us.
And 100 percent of what we cameto was not technical skill.
(06:49):
It was not resume.
It was not.
It was emotional qualities,collaborative spirit, passion,
drive and work ethic, curiousintelligence.
And so then we startedinterviewing for those
qualities.
So oftentimes, not often,hopefully, but sometimes you'll
have a great person in the wrongrole, right?
(07:10):
And so many companies are,you're just not, they're just
not doing the job.
They're not hitting these marks.
We've coached and counseledthem.
It's time to let them go or theyget discouraged and they get
disenchanted and they leave.
But if you've hired rightoftentimes I think developing
people requires having a broaderview than the role that they're
(07:33):
doing today.
Sometimes it's not, but I thinkthat it's two things.
It's creating a trustingenvironment where employees feel
like they can advocate forthemselves.
And then it's also being able tosee the person for who they are
as a person and realize thatsometimes it's about developing
them into a different role.
Rachel Humphrey (07:52):
I love the combination of communication and
trust too.
So important in any type ofleadership.
100%.
As we come out of the pandemic,especially there has been a
renewed focus on self care andwellness, but that is not a
renewed focus for you.
That's actually somewhere thatyou have devoted a tremendous
portion of your career.
(08:13):
You're a strong advocatepublicly for mental health
awareness, and you have talkedabout a lot of your addiction
struggles publicly in a lot ofdifferent forums.
What advice would you give tosomeone who is struggling to
take care of themselves fromwhatever aspect?
That looks like.
Steve Palmer (08:30):
Sure.
I think that first off,hopefully you're in an
organization that values mentalhealth and wellness.
We are and all of the ways thatwe demonstrate that on a daily
basis you know, happy and wholeemployees are good for
everybody.
It's good for the human, it'sgood for our hotels and
restaurants.
It's good for our guests.
(08:50):
I think that too often.
And I say this in the hopes thatwe're moving towards a different
environment.
But you meet hospitalityemployees that worked in toxic
environments.
And so mental health equalsgetting out of the industry.
And, we need more people to wantto work in hospitality, not
last.
(09:10):
So I think that first andforemost, you need to be in an
environment where if taking careof yourself is not something
that is well received by yourleaders than perhaps a different
organization.
But it doesn't mean that allhospitality lacks that empathy
and compassion.
I think that realizing that youcan do both, you can work hard.
(09:34):
Be in a fast paced environmentand take care of yourself.
I think that any leaders thatare, we regularly in our hotels
and restaurants are talkingabout mental health.
You can't just say we're mentalhealth advocates.
It's a daily practice.
Of course, we have our nonprofitBen's friends that's in 25
(09:54):
cities in America.
But and that specifically.
Addresses addiction.
We also have fitness programs,gym memberships we have alcohol
free environments.
So the age old shot, shift,drink shot at the end of the
bar.
We just don't do any of thatbecause we're trying to create a
more whole healthy environment.
But I always tell people, youhave to take care of yourself.
(10:17):
first, especially if you're inthe business of taking care of
other people.
If you're not filling your owntank, there's no way that you
can fill somebody else's.
Rachel Humphrey (10:26):
I say a lot that a lantern needs fuel to
shine brightly.
And if your lantern has runempty, you are not going to be
your best.
Collaborate or your bestemployee, your best parent,
whatever it is.
You mentioned Ben's friends andI wanna talk about that for a
minute.
You're the co-founder of anorganization that does
incredible work within yourrestaurant communities.
(10:47):
Tell us a little bit about theorganization, but also as a
leader, how did you know thatyou were the right.
Person for this initiative?
Steve Palmer (10:55):
Sure.
Ben Murray was a chef of oursthat sadly during an opening of
a restaurant, he committedsuicide in his hotel room and
none of us knew he wasstruggling.
Ben was not.
You would not have attached theword depressed to Ben.
Ben was happy and outgoing andkind and lovely.
(11:17):
And when I'll never forget as Icalled his 80 year old mother to
have that conversation.
She shared with me that Ben hadbeen in and out of detox six
times and we had no idea.
And so my co founder, MickeyBaxter and I were both sober.
I'm in recovery.
We had been saying over and overagain, we need to do something
(11:40):
for the industry.
And then it was always we're toobusy.
We've got this going on.
So obviously when Ben committedsuicide, we said we're not too
busy.
But I'll tell you that And Ihope this encourages others to
find ways to help.
We believe that Ben's Friendswould be a local Charleston
support group.
(12:01):
It's run by people who are soberin hospitality for people who
want to get sober inhospitality.
We are in 25 cities across thenation.
We have 21 Zoom meetings a week.
We had no idea that it wouldbecome all that it has become.
And I say that to your questionabout knowing I was the person.
(12:26):
Anybody is the person if theywant to help and they're coming
from a good place, we are veryfocused on addiction substance
abuse because that's, I say I'mnot a addiction expert or a
recovery expert, but that's mystory.
So I have my story to share withother people.
We absolutely couldn't havepredicted the response.
(12:48):
The and Ben's friends is now somuch bigger than Mickey or there
are, okay.
We have leaders in every city.
It's a national organization.
And it's only six, six and ahalf years old.
I believe if you have a heartfor helping, then find a way to
help.
And for us, I love our industry.
I can't say it enough.
I love what I do.
(13:09):
I love the people in ourindustry that do what they do.
So what could be better thanhelping those people be
productive members of thehospitality industry?
Rachel Humphrey (13:19):
What a powerful message that such a
heartbreaking loss has resultedin such an incredible community
activation across the country.
And so thank you both forsharing that story, but also in
sharing your time and youraddiction story that then
empowers others to do the same.
We've talked a little bit aboutAdvocating for yourself, self
(13:40):
care and wellness, things likethat.
But every time I'm getting readyfor an interview or to moderate
an industry panel, people comeup to me and say, what I really
want to know is how leaders areleading today.
I want to know if they answertheir own email.
Do they calendar or use their EAfor things?
Are they taking vacation?
Do they work 24 seven?
(14:00):
I want to hear from the insideand whether when you talk about
work life harmony, you aretalking about parenting or a
spouse or gardening or readingor whatever it is.
It can be lots of things to lotsof people.
How do you think you do managingsome sort of harmony between
your career and having thingsoutside of that career?
Steve Palmer (14:22):
Sure.
I have obviously 30 plus yearsin, have worked hours, I've
worked a lot of seven day weeks.
I've also traveled a lot.
I've also been to greatrestaurants all over the world.
I believe strongly that if youare in the business of serving
others, if you're not allowingyourself to be served, your tank
(14:44):
is going to run out eventually.
Whether I was an assistantmanager or a food and beverage
director or the founder of acompany, I have always traveled
to eat and to stay in hotels andto feel inspired.
I demand that from my team.
I literally, I have a couple ofsenior leaders that I'm going to
(15:06):
write you up if you don't take aweek off.
You have to do it.
And anybody that doesn't.
Understand that you're not yourbest self when you're burned
out.
Our company is, has grown.
We've grown aggressively thisyear.
It will be one of our biggestyears ever.
(15:26):
There's no doubt.
People are going to feel burnedout and frustrated and tired if
you're not as a leaderadvocating for that for others
but you also have to demonstratethat and my team sees me take
time off and I'm a dad to a 13year old girl who has horse
shows all over the south andthey see me going to the horse
(15:47):
shows and they see me doing, soI think, first you have to model
it for your teams.
But no one should feel guiltyabout taking.
That's just silly.
I just the week before Christmasand New Year's, I turned my
email off.
First time in 30 years, I turnedit off.
I just, you know what?
It'll be there when I get back.
(16:07):
I had 2, 700 emails when I gothome and some people would say
that would be more stressful forme.
But can you unplug and you haveto unplug because I think travel
gives you perspective.
I think time off gives you adifferent view.
Maybe you've been stuck on anissue.
You don't know how to solve.
(16:29):
gRinding another day instead oftaking a day off may not be the
answer you're looking for, buttaking time, I'm always reading
books about our industry.
You just have to commit to it.
I don't have a, it's everybodywill shake their head and then
they'll go back to not takingtime, but you have to have
balance.
All I was going to say is, whatare you doing it for if you're
(16:53):
not, so if you can enjoy yourtime, just that I
Rachel Humphrey (17:00):
love traveling to be inspired.
That's such a great way ofputting that also modeling.
You're absolutely right.
It's very easy to tell others todo it, but if they don't see you
doing it, whether, and one ofthe things we hear too is
announced loudly what you'redoing.
Oh, I'm going to a horse show.
Oh, I'm going on vacation.
Don't sneak out the back door sothat people can see.
(17:20):
See that it is accepted andencouraged and everything else.
So that's a great piece ofadvice too.
As we look to today sitting onan interview like this, you do a
lot of public speaking, whetherit's community activities,
conferences.
Webinars and other types ofthings.
Have you always been comfortablewith it?
You're incredibly talented atit.
(17:41):
Are you comfortable with it?
Is it something you had to teachyourself?
We hear all the time that publicspeaking can often be one of the
biggest hurdles that people findin their path as they're trying
to advance their careers.
Steve Palmer (17:54):
That's interesting.
So what's.
Funny to me is right before Italk, I'll say, man, I'm so
nervous.
And whether it's my wife sittingnext to me, people are genuinely
surprised that I'm nervous.
Because I do a lot of publicspeaking.
And so they assume, oh this mustjust be fallen.
(18:15):
When I did my Ted talk, I, whenI was done and I will say that
the organizers of Ted, it's verystructured.
It's we rehearsed, I was filmed,they gave feedback.
I felt a little bit like I was,auditioning for a beauty pageant
because it turned this way andthey were all great, and.
(18:37):
When I got done with my TedTalk, I walked immediately off
the stage out the side door andstarted crying because it was
such an emotional thing.
And there had been so much buildup to it that I literally sat
down on the ground outside andwas just, I say all of that to
say that I love speaking.
(18:59):
I'm always talking aboutsomething I'm passionate about.
So comes from the heart.
I'm not giving a sales pitch ordata on, and I know that they're
that kind of public speaking isvaluable as well.
So I'm mostly talking abouthospitality, people and mental
(19:19):
health, which are things.
But It's funny you mentionedthat because some of my
teammates, I'm now, Hey, I'dlike for you to go speak at this
thing.
I'd like for you to go.
And my director of financialoperations is a little is more
introverted than I am.
And so he was on PBS a couple ofweeks ago and he was so nervous.
(19:41):
And what do I say?
And this and that?
And I just kept saying.
The only questions they're goingto ask you is about what you do
every day of your life.
There's not, there's no trickquestion coming.
And afterwards he came back andwas like, it was like, that was
really cool.
Can I do some more of that?
I Would say to those that like,aren't as comfortable with it.
(20:05):
It's muscle memory.
You just have to do it a lot.
Being on a panel where you'rejust getting asked questions
from a moderator, that's a greatway to dip your toe in because
then you're not having toprepare a speech.
You're not, you're just, it'sjust Q and a, but if you can do
that a few times before you'rethe lone person on the stage I
(20:26):
think it's pretty helpful, butmy Ted talk was the most
nervous.
There were a thousand people inthe theater, it was a lot.
Rachel Humphrey (20:34):
Yeah, a lot for even a seasoned speaker.
And I think that you raised somegreat points speaking about
things that, you know, and thatyou're passionate about.
So choosing the right speakingopportunities is really
important.
But also your first timespeaking does not have to be in
front of a.
crowd of 6, 000 at a conference,you can make a toast at a family
dinner, you can have a meeting,a staff meeting where you raise
(20:57):
your hand and say something.
I think people don't realizethat there's a lot of points
between A and Z of opportunitiesto practice because you're
right.
I still get nervous and I do itall the time and I love it, but
it doesn't mean that I'm notnervous before I do it.
At
Steve Palmer (21:12):
our leadership conference where I'm just
speaking to our teammates, I'llbe nervous.
Rachel Humphrey (21:17):
Yeah, I think it's good.
I like nerves.
I think nerves are verymotivating.
We hear a lot nowadays, whichyou and I did not when we were
first coming up about personalbrands.
I know I have some personalmantras that guide me.
Do you think that you have amantra that is your guiding star
or something about you that youwould say?
(21:38):
This is my personal brand.
Steve Palmer (21:41):
Yeah, I, yes.
And I, even I struggled with theword brand for a long time
because that felt corporate.
And I don't struggle with thatanymore because it is my brand.
I'm the founder of the company.
Yeah.
I, if you said distill it alldown to one sentence or a quote,
maybe that's a bet.
(22:04):
People will forget what yousaid, they will forget what you
did, but they'll never forgethow you made them feel.
We define hospitality as how wemake people feel.
When I'm doing orientations,I'll say, I just had done one at
10 o'clock.
If you don't remember anythingelse I said, remember that the
way we make each other feel isthe most important thing.
I'm always, surprised,discouraged when I, when you
(22:27):
hear about a hospitalityoperation, where the employees
are not having a hospitableexperience.
I'm so okay, so I'm going toyell and scream at you now go
make everybody happy it's justso unfortunate, but yeah, my
mantra, my brand, the thing thatis the foundation of my success
(22:48):
in our success at the Indigoroad is the way we make each
other feel is the most importantthing.
Rachel Humphrey (22:55):
It sounds very consistent to corporate culture
and mental health advocacy andleading by example and modeling
all of those things.
So that's great to hear that.
That's what it comes down to.
I know we're going to run shorton time and I'm going to want to
rapid fire through some otherones because such great advice
here, but No leader gets towhere they are without
(23:16):
overcoming setbacks, obstacles,challenges and learning from
them.
Do you have a strategy when youare faced either with something
that didn't go as you hoped thatit would or an unexpected
challenge on the path thatyou're looking to accomplish?
That is really how you processand overcome challenges.
Steve Palmer (23:37):
So I have a funny saying my life has not gone the
way that I planned.
And I thank God for that everyday.
It's about, it's not about life.
It's about how you handle life,right?
It's about how we deal with whathappens to us.
Winston Churchill said somethingthat I'm a big fan of, and he
was such a controversialcharacter, but success is not
(23:58):
final.
Failure is not fatal.
It's the courage to continuethat counts.
And, there are in anyentrepreneurial I started this
company in 09 in the depths ofthe financial crisis and took
over, a restaurant that wasn'tdoing well.
And it's in those times that youlearn who you are.
(24:21):
I think all of us that have beenin leadership for a while would
say, I learned so much more frommy failures than my successes.
Absolutely.
Doesn't mean they're notpainful, but I think and you
touched on it when you mentionedBen's friends, and I say this.
In Ben's Friends a lot look atthis beautiful organization that
you all have come to value.
(24:43):
It was started because somebodycommitted suicide, right?
And that's a very extremeexample.
But I, it, the principle of itis out of the toughest stuff can
come some of the most powerful,impactful things if you allow
it.
And it's how you handle thesetbacks, the obstacles.
(25:04):
Because they are many we'redealing with some right now and
that were unforeseen 90 daysago.
And the benefit of trust and atrusting team and everybody
coming together.
But also really being rooted inthis is here to teach me a
lesson.
What do I need to learn fromthis?
I'm not being punished.
Cause I think that's how, it's,how can I make the team better?
(25:27):
And how can we move forward andlearn from this?
And so I think that if you're inleadership and you're not
expecting obstacles, you'resetting yourself up for failure.
I just the people that inspireme the most are the people that
sort of their, the foundation oftheir story was about how they
(25:48):
overcame insurmountable odds tobe successful in whatever that
looks like.
So those are the, somebody getsup on a stage and says,
everything has gone my way mywhole life and it's all been
pretty easy.
That's not nearly as inspiringas somebody that's I struggled
and I went through this and Iopened a restaurant and it
(26:10):
didn't work.
We opened a hotel and theculture was all wrong and here's
how we did, here's how we camearound.
I think it's pushing throughfear, but it really is.
That's when having a trustingteam matters the most when the
person to the left of you andthe person to the right of you
has your back and you know theyhave your back.
You're gonna get through it.
(26:30):
I love.
Rachel Humphrey (26:30):
Of course, no one goes through life without
obstacles, but I love the ideaof learning from it.
The Churchill quote, but reallysaying why is this in my path.
And now what am I going to dowith it now that I know that
it's here?
One of my favorite questions toask others and to be asked is
advice to our younger selves.
And the reason I love it so muchis I think that we are all works
(26:53):
in progress.
But reflection is a reallyimportant part of how we
continually evolve.
So as you sit here today, Whatdo you tell 21 year old Steve
either about what's in store foryou, something you wish you knew
at the time, how things work outfor you today?
What do you reflect back on andtell that young man?
Steve Palmer (27:14):
I would say two things.
I would say, remember that atyour most scariest fearful
moments.
That's right before things areabout to get good.
And it's going to go so muchbetter than you could possibly
imagine if you just hang inthere.
Rachel Humphrey (27:34):
Wow.
That's incredibly powerful.
Thank you very much for sharingthat.
as I expected, we are runningshort on time.
And given the motto of DEIAdvisors, which is to empower
personal success, is there afinal piece of advice you'd like
to offer?
Either something that we didn'tcover, something we did that you
wanted to elaborate on a littlebit more, but what would you
(27:56):
leave our audience with?
today.
Steve Palmer (27:58):
Sure.
So there's so much conversationin our industry right now about
younger generations, work ethic,attention, follow through.
This is what I love abouthospitality, that it doesn't
matter how you grew up.
It really doesn't even matter ifyou went to school, didn't go to
(28:19):
school.
I'm not saying those thingsaren't important, but if you're
willing to be a part of a teamand you're willing to work hard,
there's a place for you inhospitality and there's a place
for you to thrive.
The advice I would give is don'tquit the day before the miracle
happens.
It, this, it is a journey andI've never given up.
(28:41):
And I see people, grit is aconversation.
There's Angela Duckworth wrotean incredible book called Grit.
And it's all about.
The percentage of people thatare successful, is it based on
intelligence and education or isit based on passion and grit?
(29:01):
80 percent is about passion andgrit.
Find what you love and then doit really hard.
But stick with it.
And as long as you've chosen theright people to work with the
right things are going
Rachel Humphrey (29:13):
well.
What an incredible way to wrapup.
Steve, I'm incrediblyappreciative for your time today
for your leadership within thehospitality industry for your
amazing advocacy within yourcommunity and your team.
So thank you very much forjoining me today and for all
that you
Steve Palmer (29:29):
are doing.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate you having me.
And
Rachel Humphrey (29:33):
for our audience we know that you
enjoyed today's interview.
We hope you'll go over to DEIadvisors.
org and check out the more than150 interviews from hospitality
industry leaders, likewisesharing their journeys to
leadership and the lessons thatthey've learned along the way.
You can also stream us from yourfavorite podcast streaming
service.
Thank you again, Steve.
Steve Palmer (29:53):
Thank you.
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