January 11, 2024 • 31 mins
Winnie shares her story of rising in a field traditionally dominated by men. We discuss formal and informal mentorship, her focus on staff development, and how she overcame the “Imposter Syndrome”. She offers her thoughts on taking risks and advice to her younger self and self-empowerment.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
David Kong (00:01):
Greetings.
I'm David Kong.
I'm the founder and principal ofDEI Advisors.
We are a non profit organizationbased in Arizona.
Today, I'm delighted to welcomeWinnie Ho.
She's the vice president ofdigital and technology solutions
at MGM and Macau.
Winnie, welcome to our show.
Winnie Ho (00:21):
David, thank you for having me here and I would love
to share some of my experiencewith all your listeners.
David Kong (00:28):
I can't wait to hear that.
Winnie, let's start with yourcareer journey.
Technology is not usually afield that women choose and yet
you've done extremely wellheading up technology solutions
at MGM.
Can you tell us more about yourcareer journey and Some of the
factors that contributed to yoursuccess.
Winnie Ho (00:51):
Sure.
Let me share a little bit on mybackground first.
I grew up in Macau, a small citynear Hong Kong, which was once a
Portuguese colony, and it gotreturned to China in 1999.
Macau is also known as the MonteCarlo of the Orient.
It's a tourist city and isfamous for its casinos.
(01:12):
My career journey has beengreatly influenced by my
mother's experience.
She faced poverty and had todrop out of school to support
her family when she was veryyoung.
So her hope for me was to attendcollege, study something that's
easy to find a job.
And need a comfortable andindependent life.
(01:35):
As a result, I have all hersupport when it comes to
studies.
I went to study college inCanada.
And in the hope of fulfilling mymother's wish, I choose computer
science.
As my major believing that ithas always potential to find a
job easily after my graduation.
(01:57):
So I began my career as asoftware engineer in high tech
companies working alongside withlots of talented scientists.
I discovered that my passion isnot solely on technology, but
in.
The problem solving aspect of ittackling complex tech issues
through coding became like agame line challenge for me,
(02:19):
technology becomes a tool for meto solve problems.
effectively.
Fast forward a few years, we gotthe tech bubble burst 2000 early
to that early year 2000, right?
I find myself working in a hightech startup company in Silicon
(02:40):
Valley, while also becoming anew mother.
Unfortunately, the startup wentunder just Two weeks after my
maternity leave ended, I findmyself struggling on whether to
continue to work or to be a stayat home mother.
I know perfectly well that it'sa good opportunity for me to
(03:02):
stay home to take care of mychild instead of putting him to
daycare.
But I also love working, befinancially independent.
And mostly being scared to havethe feeling that I am isolated
and lack of social life if Ibecome a housewife.
(03:22):
But at last, with my husband'ssupport, I decided to be a stay
at home mother because I wantedto be more involved in my son's
early stage of life.
And He will never be a babyagain if I miss this
opportunity, but during the sameyear, my mother was diagnosed
with late stage cancer in Macau.
(03:44):
I was devastated by the news.
I struggled on whether to goback to Macau to take care of my
mother or not.
At that time, I was thinkinglike, how could I leave my 14
month son alone with my husband?
But I really want to take careof my mom because That could
really be my last opportunity tospend time with her, and she
(04:07):
also needs my support.
I thought about it.
I ended up asking for help frommy mother in New Orleans.
who was in Toronto at that timeto take care of my son.
So I fly my son to Toronto andthen I fly back to Macau to
accompany my mother to gothrough all the surgeries and
(04:30):
medical therapies.
Three months later.
I was so fortunate that myhusband actually got a job in
Macau.
He then fetched my son back fromToronto, and Macau became our
new home.
And for the next couple ofyears, I prioritized myself to
take care of my mother and myson.
(04:52):
Fast forward a few years later,my mother got better, and my son
gets older.
I miss my job.
And I figured that it's time forme to find something.
And like my mother has hopedfor, It was easy for me to find
a job with a computer sciencedegree and I got a job in the IT
(05:16):
department of an integratedresort.
At that time, I have absolutelyno idea.
What the I T role is inhospitality industry apart from
fixing pcs.
So starting the job with zeroknowledge being a woman and have
colleagues who weresignificantly younger than me, I
(05:39):
always feel anxious that I amincompetent when compared to
others.
However, that drove me to workharder, ask more questions and
realize that as an older woman,people didn't expect me to know
everything.
So it makes it easier for me toseek guidance and stand out from
the crowd.
(06:00):
And later on, I find out thatdespite the differences, I
really learned from the hightech industry.
My passion for problem solvinghas remained.
I find that I enjoy to usetechnologies to help to improve
the customer experience, improvework efficiencies of staff, and
(06:20):
help increase company revenue.
And.
I do believe that having passionin what I do help me excel in my
career.
And to conclude, I find my lifeand career experience has told
me that life could take me tosomething unexpected anytime.
(06:42):
Therefore, I now will choose togo all in on career
opportunities that I wanted andfocus on things within my
control.
Personal empowerment for womenis many times more difficult
than men.
Because we have to play variousroles in our lives.
(07:04):
More than often, we have to workmuch harder than others to get
what we want.
I find out that one importantaspect for me to be where I am
now is the support network thatI have.
I got the support from myfamily, my boss.
I remember David, one of yourguests, said we need to hire the
(07:27):
right boss, and my colleagues.
And if you think you don't haveyour support network, I say
build one and don't be afraid toask help.
So I guess that's my careerjourney so far.
David Kong (07:44):
Such a wonderful story and so heartwarming.
I'm just really happy that yourmom is fine, and you have such a
supportive and understandinghusband to0,.You're very
fortunate.
And like you said, it's oftendifficult for women to build
their career because they haveto wear so many hats.
(08:05):
They are a daughter.
They are a mother, a wife, andthey have to work and there's so
many things that they have tojuggle throughout their whole
career.
It's very difficult.
Now, you've mentioned thesupport network, which is
crucial to our success.
And you mentioned family, youmentioned your boss.
I didn't hear you mentionmentors or advocates.
(08:28):
Do you have any experience withanybody who has taken you under
their wings?
and help you with your career.
Maybe you can share someexperience in that regard.
Winnie Ho (08:40):
When I first become a people manager, I vividly
remember how much I wanted amentor.
Someone I could turn to foradvice and guidance.
While some may suggest that Ican go to my boss, remember I
hired my the right boss.
(09:01):
There are still certain thingsthat I hesitate to share with
him because I didn't want it toundermine his perception for me.
And I longed for a femalementor, someone who understand
and related to the uniquechallenges that I face as a
woman and a minority in the techindustry, as well as the
(09:22):
difficulties of balancing workand family.
Unfortunately, I never had theopportunity to find such a
mentor at that time.
But as I get older, and maybewiser, I now realize that there
have been numerous individualswho have mentored me, even
(09:44):
without their knowledge.
This have played a significantrole in shaping my personal and
professional growth.
I might not have a formalmentor, but I do benefit from
mentorship in some sort.
I guess I would imagine.
(10:06):
That mentors fromunderrepresented groups are
still scared today, and that'swhy I have been volunteering
myself to mentor young women andindividuals from
underrepresented backgrounds inthe industry.
I think women should pull womenup whenever there are
opportunities.
(10:27):
And I want to be part of theirsupport network because I know
how much they want my support.
And I know having them as mymentee will also help me grow.
David Kong (10:39):
That's wonderful to hear.
Now, I recognize what you saidearlier that sometimes you
didn't even know that someonewas helping you or at the time
you didn't realize someone wasactually mentoring you.
But how would someoneproactively go about finding
mentors and advocates to helpthem with their careers?
Winnie Ho (11:00):
I like to talk to people in senior position.
And every so often through theconversation, you will find
great insight.
From them for example, Iremember when I was in the
opening team of MGM Macau, Ioften have the chance to work
(11:21):
with the the CFO and the COO ofthe company.
And I remember that our COO onceasked me do you know how you can
get the attention of someonegiven that someone might be very
busy?
anD I said, I don't know.
Talk to him.
And then he just hold up hisphone.
At that time, it was February.
(11:43):
And he said send an email andcraft your email and make sure
that your first line.
Catch the attention of the onethat you want to talk to.
I was thinking, wow, this is avery good piece of advice.
And ever since I have been usingit.
David Kong (12:02):
That is a good piece of advice.
Thank you.
And mentors and advocates don'tneed to be formal, as you
mentioned earlier.
They are instrumental toanyone's success.
Thank you for sharing thosestories.
Let's talk about the manyaccolades you have received,
leading technology solutions atMGM.
(12:25):
What's the source of yourinspiration and how did you
become so successful?
Winnie Ho (12:31):
To be honest, participating in awards and
competition was not a priorityfor MGM IT due to the resource
constraints and the belief thatwe have more pressing tasks at
hand.
However, a few years ago, theMacau Telecommunication Bureau
launched the Macau Smart HotelAward.
(12:55):
Which aim to recognize hotel inMacau that enhance business
efficiency and optimize customerexperience through the use of
technology.
This award caught my attentionbecause first, it is the very
first award that I came acrossthat is organized by a local
government.
And being a personal witness onhow our I.
(13:18):
T.
Power solution has enhanced ourcustomer experience and how
ourself works.
I figured that it was a it is agreat opportunity to affirm my
thoughts.
On how good we are and where weare at comparing to other hotels
in Macau.
So we decided to enter thecompetition as I expected.
(13:39):
We were honored with the highestrecognition in the award.
What I didn't anticipate was theimpact that it had on our team.
As we prepared a submission.
I personally witnessed that ourstaff pride in their work and
their firm belief.
in our ability to win.
(14:00):
Participating in thiscompetition brought us closer
together working a common goal.
I see all these positive impactsfrom entering those awards and
therefore it has driven me tocontinue to Put effort in
striking the balance betweenwork and entering awards.
And because of that, it haskeeping us an ongoing stream of,
(14:24):
working getting accomplishedhelping the company and continue
to get more awards.
David Kong (14:32):
That's great.
Congratulations on yourrecognition.
And it's so wonderful to instillpride in your team.
Great story.
Thank you for sharing that.
Now I've heard you say thattalent is the most important
asset of an organization, andyou put significant time and
effort into talent acquisitionand retention.
(14:52):
Can you share with us some ofthe efforts that you've put in,
and your success stories?
Winnie Ho (14:57):
Sure, I can share some of my experience.
I would say that most hotels usesimilar technologies, if not
identical, if I may.
So the only differentiatorbetween successful Or
unsuccessful.
Implementation is the executionand how we put technology
(15:17):
together and how we implementthem.
So I concluded that technologyitself.
It's not the technology itselfthat make the difference, but
it's the people and their ideas.
Talent requisition may seem likean HR thing, but I always
believe that like minded peopleattract each other.
(15:39):
So that's why I invested a lotof time in letting people know
about me and my team.
activities such as discord cardspresentation and universities
and supporting mentorshipinternship program, I think will
help to get the public knowabout the team and hence attract
(16:03):
more talent from retainingtalent.
Perspective.
I think it is really difficultin such a competitive market,
and especially when people knowthat we are in the forefront of
technology and our people alwaysbecome target easily.
I think the key to retain talentis to understand that individual
(16:26):
goal.
I invest time in understandingmyself schools and help them to
paint a picture.
On what it takes for them toachieve their goals with that
current job.
So as a leader, I always keep mydoor open.
I am honest on my feedback and Iencourage others to give
(16:47):
feedback to me as well.
My goal is for all my immediatestaff to be able to clearly tell
their own strength and area forimprovement.
I also encourage them to do thesame with their own support.
So they can find themselves thaton their values with us and
(17:08):
although see their career patheasily, so they will retain with
us.
David Kong (17:14):
That's great.
And just curious.
Technology is such a hot fieldright now.
And there're so many companieslooking for technology talent.
MGM is a casino operation, andyou have a big I.
T.
Department.
But at the same time, the careerprogression isn't as good as a
(17:35):
place like Google or Amazon orone of those tech companies.
How do you actually build acareer path and retain the
talent?
Winnie Ho (17:44):
First of all, I truly believe that different people
want a different career path.
Let's say, when I have my kidsthat I, that were young, I might
want to career path that mightbe a little bit slow and so that
I will have time for my kids.
And some people who are in their20th without kids, without a
(18:06):
family, they might want to put alot of effort to excel their
career ladder.
So hence, I have I like what Isaid, I, one I want to build is
I will cater a career path basedon what they.
Need and I will feed what theyneed to what we have what we can
(18:29):
offer from the MGM perspectiveand help them to get what they
want.
And so as to help the company.
David Kong (18:37):
That's great to hear.
Thank you.
Let's talk about impostersyndrome.
Many of the underrepresentedgroups have talked about the
imposter syndrome, the feelingthat they don't belong.
Have you experienced that?
And if so, how do you shift yourmindset-become more productive
and constructive.
Winnie Ho (18:57):
As an Asian woman in tech, I am aware that I'm part
of an underrepresented group.
I think imposter syndrome can bedivided into two parts.
The first part is, doubtingone's skills and talent.
And the second part is to fearof being exposed as a fraud.
I experienced both in my lifejourney.
(19:19):
And I want to talk about thesecond part first, the fear of
being exposed as a fraud.
I remember that one our ex CEOMr.
Graham Bowie once said in apublic speech that there is no
need to hide any mistake.
Because people can see so I toldmyself that if if I am a fraud
(19:46):
with or without fear is alreadya fact and people can see it
already.
So that part I overcome itbecause I keep telling that and
in terms of the first part, likehaving doubts about my skills
(20:08):
and my talent.
Think I don't necessarily it'snot necessary about overcoming
them completely.
Instead I will try to channelthese feelings into actions that
I can improve myself.
And by doing so, I can turn mynegative feelings into positive
(20:31):
forces that drive me to learnand grow.
However, there are times thatthose feelings could still
persist.
And sometimes, unconscious biashelps reinforces those feelings.
So what I normally do is I willchoose to share my feelings with
(20:52):
someone.
I will go to someone that Itrust, someone who is not in my
profession functional area sothat they can be more objective.
But then, most of the time Theyonly need to listen because more
than often when I put myfeelings into words, the
(21:15):
feelings and the imagined.
And also the fact will come outeasily.
And that helps me to overcomethose feelings.
David Kong (21:27):
Those are great lessons and great advice for the
audience.
And I know many people havetalked about overcoming the
imposter syndrome by doingsomething constructive and
positive.
As you have mentioned, getbetter at something.
It's a motivation to be evenstronger than you are.
And having a support network,like you mentioned, is
(21:49):
important.
Someone whom you can share someof these feelings with, that's
really good advice.
Now, a lot of people on our showhave attributed taking risks to
their success.
And I was just wondering, what'syour experience in terms of
taking risks?
And if you have taken big risksbefore, how do you prepare
yourself mentally to take onthose risks?
Winnie Ho (22:11):
I have to confess that I am adverse to certain
type of risk.
For example, last week I was inTaiwan and my friends tried very
hard to make me ride a bike tocommute around busy streets in
the Taipei City.
I simply refused to do that.
(22:33):
So call me a risk adverser, ifyou may.
But having said that I think Iam doing pretty good at taking
other risk risk that canpossibly have big impact to my
life, things like becoming ahousewife, moving back to Canada
and I do think the biggest riskthat I have taken in my life is
(22:56):
having kids.
Like most of the risks that wetake, if we fail, you know what?
We can do it over, but forhaving kids, you cannot undo a
person.
Kudos to all the mothers andfathers.
I think they are all great risktakers.
And speaking of taking risks inmy career, I say the
(23:21):
prerequisite of my role alreadyrequired me to be a good.
Calculated risk taker, as I haveto consistently make decisions
on technologies and beinnovative on solutions, right?
But as a woman in tech industry,I think it is more about whether
(23:44):
people allow me Today riskswhether others have the faith in
me.
Listen to me.
That on what I want to do andaccept my ideas.
iN order for me, in order forpeople to earn my to earn in
order for me to earn othersapproval, my solution to that is
(24:08):
I give others the chance to knowme, work with them, And
gradually build the trust andlet them see the work I
delivered.
This way people will start valueme for who I am, but not simply
(24:29):
judge for what I am.
I think the solutions has beenworking pretty well for me so
far.
David Kong (24:38):
It has indeed.
Look at the awards that you havewon and the reputation you enjoy
in the industry.
You are right about buildingtrust.
I think that's fundamental toanybody's success.
Now we have all faced our fairshare of challenges in our
career, and I was just wonderingif you can share some of the
challenges that you have facedand how you muster up the
(25:00):
courage and resilience toeventually prevail.
Winnie Ho (25:02):
There are people out there who are afraid of height.
And, they will seek out highplaces often to test themselves.
I think I am one of those.
I believe that by pushing myBoundaries little by little, I
can build up my resilience andto take challenges.
(25:24):
To give you my example I am veryscared of public speaking.
Although a lot of people willdoubt me because I have been
doing a lot.
it Was my worst nightmare, butinstead of avoiding it.
(25:44):
I decided to face it head on.
I joined the Toastmasters Club.
I give presentations atuniversities and clubs, and I
join panel discussions.
A couple of years ago, I evenstarted learning Mandarin
because Mandarin is mychallenge.
(26:07):
So at my age, I find a Chineseteacher and teach me to speak
Mandarin, and a couple of monthsago, I did my very first
Mandarin work speech in mainlandChina, and I feel so good about
it.
So I really think, that if Icontinuously putting myself bit
(26:32):
by bit into small challenge, Ican eventually get myself
prepared to go for bigger ones.
David Kong (26:41):
You are so right.
You have to face your challengeshead on.
And I love what you said aboutToastmaster and speaking at
different forums or universitiesto improve your public speaking
skills.
You're an exceptional speaker.
I think anyone listening to thisinterview will find that you are
very accomplished in thatregard.
(27:02):
By the way, we have something incommon.
I, too, joined Postmaster.
I did that for three years about30 years ago, and I really
enjoyed that.
And it greatly Improved mypublic speaking skills.
Till this day, I'm still verywatchful for my ar's and ums and
other fellow words.
Winnie Ho (27:21):
Me too.
I love the support system thatthey they have been providing
me.
Yeah,
David Kong (27:26):
It's a wonderful program.
Now we are running a little lowon time.
I have two more questions.
I'd like to ask you.
The first one is you are muchmore experienced now, but
looking back at your careerjourney, what advice would you
give to your younger self?
Winnie Ho (27:45):
Oh, okay.
I remember I heard the sameanswer from your previous
podcast.
I would advise her to take morebreaks and time out.
I don't know.
It is probably the result ofimposter syndrome.
I tend to work hard, very hard,and I have made some regrettable
(28:06):
decisions and mistakes in thepast when I pushed myself too
hard.
I learned lessons the hard way,but because of that, it taught
me the value of finding ahealthy balance.
So now I will prioritize myselfto take better care of myself
(28:27):
and allow myself to take regularbreaks.
I even put it on my calendar tomake sure that I take a break
during the day to freshen up mymind.
David Kong (28:40):
That's wonderful advice.
Thank you for sharing that.
I especially like the one that'sabout not being so hard on
yourself because we, as membersof underrepresented groups, tend
to push ourselves very hard.
We have to try harder and it'sgood advice that we need to take
time to smell the roses and takecare of ourselves too.
(29:02):
Yeah.
Our show is about selfempowerment, so I was wondering
if you can share some advice onwhat we can do to empower
ourselves.
Winnie Ho (29:12):
There is a Chinese saying which translates to
living in the present moment.
It encouraged us to be fullypresent and engaged in the
current moment, rather thanthinking about the past or
worrying about the future.
The future.
I think life always take us inan unexpected path that we never
(29:36):
anticipated.
Personally, I never expectedmyself to be a housewife and I
certainly never imagined myselfmoving back to Canada, moving
back to Macau.
However, situation would take usto a different path.
And it was during my time as ahousewife that I realized how
much I enjoyed and missed mybeauteous job.
(29:57):
So now.
I have the opportunity to returnto WordPress.
I truly treasure everyopportunities that come my way.
Therefore, my last advice wouldbe to ask our listeners to think
about what you really want inlife and go for it.
(30:18):
So that when you become 80 or 90years old, you will look back
and regret about your life.
David Kong (30:27):
That's great.
I love that.
Have a goal in life and go at itwith full gusto.
I love that.
Thanks for sharing that.
Thank you.
I'm afraid that's all the timethat we have.
And I really enjoyed thisinterview.
I hope you did too.
And to our audience, if youEnjoy the show.
We hope you will join us on ourwebsite, DEIadvisors.
(30:48):
Org.
There are many other interviewsof this nature and we hope to
see you there.
Thank you.
Winnie Ho (30:57):
Thank you David.
Greetings.
I'm David Kong.
I'm the founder and principal ofDEI Advisors.
We are a non profit organizationbased in Arizona.
Today, I'm delighted to welcomeWinnie Ho.
She's the vice president ofdigital and technology solutions
at MGM and Macau.
Winnie, welcome to our show.
Winnie Ho (00:21):
David, thank you for having me here and I would love
to share some of my experiencewith all your listeners.
David Kong (00:28):
I can't wait to hear that.
Winnie, let's start with yourcareer journey.
Technology is not usually afield that women choose and yet
you've done extremely wellheading up technology solutions
at MGM.
Can you tell us more about yourcareer journey and Some of the
factors that contributed to yoursuccess.
Winnie Ho (00:51):
Sure.
Let me share a little bit on mybackground first.
I grew up in Macau, a small citynear Hong Kong, which was once a
Portuguese colony, and it gotreturned to China in 1999.
Macau is also known as the MonteCarlo of the Orient.
It's a tourist city and isfamous for its casinos.
(01:12):
My career journey has beengreatly influenced by my
mother's experience.
She faced poverty and had todrop out of school to support
her family when she was veryyoung.
So her hope for me was to attendcollege, study something that's
easy to find a job.
And need a comfortable andindependent life.
(01:35):
As a result, I have all hersupport when it comes to
studies.
I went to study college inCanada.
And in the hope of fulfilling mymother's wish, I choose computer
science.
As my major believing that ithas always potential to find a
job easily after my graduation.
(01:57):
So I began my career as asoftware engineer in high tech
companies working alongside withlots of talented scientists.
I discovered that my passion isnot solely on technology, but
in.
The problem solving aspect of ittackling complex tech issues
through coding became like agame line challenge for me,
(02:19):
technology becomes a tool for meto solve problems.
effectively.
Fast forward a few years, we gotthe tech bubble burst 2000 early
to that early year 2000, right?
I find myself working in a hightech startup company in Silicon
(02:40):
Valley, while also becoming anew mother.
Unfortunately, the startup wentunder just Two weeks after my
maternity leave ended, I findmyself struggling on whether to
continue to work or to be a stayat home mother.
I know perfectly well that it'sa good opportunity for me to
(03:02):
stay home to take care of mychild instead of putting him to
daycare.
But I also love working, befinancially independent.
And mostly being scared to havethe feeling that I am isolated
and lack of social life if Ibecome a housewife.
(03:22):
But at last, with my husband'ssupport, I decided to be a stay
at home mother because I wantedto be more involved in my son's
early stage of life.
And He will never be a babyagain if I miss this
opportunity, but during the sameyear, my mother was diagnosed
with late stage cancer in Macau.
(03:44):
I was devastated by the news.
I struggled on whether to goback to Macau to take care of my
mother or not.
At that time, I was thinkinglike, how could I leave my 14
month son alone with my husband?
But I really want to take careof my mom because That could
really be my last opportunity tospend time with her, and she
(04:07):
also needs my support.
I thought about it.
I ended up asking for help frommy mother in New Orleans.
who was in Toronto at that timeto take care of my son.
So I fly my son to Toronto andthen I fly back to Macau to
accompany my mother to gothrough all the surgeries and
(04:30):
medical therapies.
Three months later.
I was so fortunate that myhusband actually got a job in
Macau.
He then fetched my son back fromToronto, and Macau became our
new home.
And for the next couple ofyears, I prioritized myself to
take care of my mother and myson.
(04:52):
Fast forward a few years later,my mother got better, and my son
gets older.
I miss my job.
And I figured that it's time forme to find something.
And like my mother has hopedfor, It was easy for me to find
a job with a computer sciencedegree and I got a job in the IT
(05:16):
department of an integratedresort.
At that time, I have absolutelyno idea.
What the I T role is inhospitality industry apart from
fixing pcs.
So starting the job with zeroknowledge being a woman and have
colleagues who weresignificantly younger than me, I
(05:39):
always feel anxious that I amincompetent when compared to
others.
However, that drove me to workharder, ask more questions and
realize that as an older woman,people didn't expect me to know
everything.
So it makes it easier for me toseek guidance and stand out from
the crowd.
(06:00):
And later on, I find out thatdespite the differences, I
really learned from the hightech industry.
My passion for problem solvinghas remained.
I find that I enjoy to usetechnologies to help to improve
the customer experience, improvework efficiencies of staff, and
(06:20):
help increase company revenue.
And.
I do believe that having passionin what I do help me excel in my
career.
And to conclude, I find my lifeand career experience has told
me that life could take me tosomething unexpected anytime.
(06:42):
Therefore, I now will choose togo all in on career
opportunities that I wanted andfocus on things within my
control.
Personal empowerment for womenis many times more difficult
than men.
Because we have to play variousroles in our lives.
(07:04):
More than often, we have to workmuch harder than others to get
what we want.
I find out that one importantaspect for me to be where I am
now is the support network thatI have.
I got the support from myfamily, my boss.
I remember David, one of yourguests, said we need to hire the
(07:27):
right boss, and my colleagues.
And if you think you don't haveyour support network, I say
build one and don't be afraid toask help.
So I guess that's my careerjourney so far.
David Kong (07:44):
Such a wonderful story and so heartwarming.
I'm just really happy that yourmom is fine, and you have such a
supportive and understandinghusband to0,.You're very
fortunate.
And like you said, it's oftendifficult for women to build
their career because they haveto wear so many hats.
(08:05):
They are a daughter.
They are a mother, a wife, andthey have to work and there's so
many things that they have tojuggle throughout their whole
career.
It's very difficult.
Now, you've mentioned thesupport network, which is
crucial to our success.
And you mentioned family, youmentioned your boss.
I didn't hear you mentionmentors or advocates.
(08:28):
Do you have any experience withanybody who has taken you under
their wings?
and help you with your career.
Maybe you can share someexperience in that regard.
Winnie Ho (08:40):
When I first become a people manager, I vividly
remember how much I wanted amentor.
Someone I could turn to foradvice and guidance.
While some may suggest that Ican go to my boss, remember I
hired my the right boss.
(09:01):
There are still certain thingsthat I hesitate to share with
him because I didn't want it toundermine his perception for me.
And I longed for a femalementor, someone who understand
and related to the uniquechallenges that I face as a
woman and a minority in the techindustry, as well as the
(09:22):
difficulties of balancing workand family.
Unfortunately, I never had theopportunity to find such a
mentor at that time.
But as I get older, and maybewiser, I now realize that there
have been numerous individualswho have mentored me, even
(09:44):
without their knowledge.
This have played a significantrole in shaping my personal and
professional growth.
I might not have a formalmentor, but I do benefit from
mentorship in some sort.
I guess I would imagine.
(10:06):
That mentors fromunderrepresented groups are
still scared today, and that'swhy I have been volunteering
myself to mentor young women andindividuals from
underrepresented backgrounds inthe industry.
I think women should pull womenup whenever there are
opportunities.
(10:27):
And I want to be part of theirsupport network because I know
how much they want my support.
And I know having them as mymentee will also help me grow.
David Kong (10:39):
That's wonderful to hear.
Now, I recognize what you saidearlier that sometimes you
didn't even know that someonewas helping you or at the time
you didn't realize someone wasactually mentoring you.
But how would someoneproactively go about finding
mentors and advocates to helpthem with their careers?
Winnie Ho (11:00):
I like to talk to people in senior position.
And every so often through theconversation, you will find
great insight.
From them for example, Iremember when I was in the
opening team of MGM Macau, Ioften have the chance to work
(11:21):
with the the CFO and the COO ofthe company.
And I remember that our COO onceasked me do you know how you can
get the attention of someonegiven that someone might be very
busy?
anD I said, I don't know.
Talk to him.
And then he just hold up hisphone.
At that time, it was February.
(11:43):
And he said send an email andcraft your email and make sure
that your first line.
Catch the attention of the onethat you want to talk to.
I was thinking, wow, this is avery good piece of advice.
And ever since I have been usingit.
David Kong (12:02):
That is a good piece of advice.
Thank you.
And mentors and advocates don'tneed to be formal, as you
mentioned earlier.
They are instrumental toanyone's success.
Thank you for sharing thosestories.
Let's talk about the manyaccolades you have received,
leading technology solutions atMGM.
(12:25):
What's the source of yourinspiration and how did you
become so successful?
Winnie Ho (12:31):
To be honest, participating in awards and
competition was not a priorityfor MGM IT due to the resource
constraints and the belief thatwe have more pressing tasks at
hand.
However, a few years ago, theMacau Telecommunication Bureau
launched the Macau Smart HotelAward.
(12:55):
Which aim to recognize hotel inMacau that enhance business
efficiency and optimize customerexperience through the use of
technology.
This award caught my attentionbecause first, it is the very
first award that I came acrossthat is organized by a local
government.
And being a personal witness onhow our I.
(13:18):
T.
Power solution has enhanced ourcustomer experience and how
ourself works.
I figured that it was a it is agreat opportunity to affirm my
thoughts.
On how good we are and where weare at comparing to other hotels
in Macau.
So we decided to enter thecompetition as I expected.
(13:39):
We were honored with the highestrecognition in the award.
What I didn't anticipate was theimpact that it had on our team.
As we prepared a submission.
I personally witnessed that ourstaff pride in their work and
their firm belief.
in our ability to win.
(14:00):
Participating in thiscompetition brought us closer
together working a common goal.
I see all these positive impactsfrom entering those awards and
therefore it has driven me tocontinue to Put effort in
striking the balance betweenwork and entering awards.
And because of that, it haskeeping us an ongoing stream of,
(14:24):
working getting accomplishedhelping the company and continue
to get more awards.
David Kong (14:32):
That's great.
Congratulations on yourrecognition.
And it's so wonderful to instillpride in your team.
Great story.
Thank you for sharing that.
Now I've heard you say thattalent is the most important
asset of an organization, andyou put significant time and
effort into talent acquisitionand retention.
(14:52):
Can you share with us some ofthe efforts that you've put in,
and your success stories?
Winnie Ho (14:57):
Sure, I can share some of my experience.
I would say that most hotels usesimilar technologies, if not
identical, if I may.
So the only differentiatorbetween successful Or
unsuccessful.
Implementation is the executionand how we put technology
(15:17):
together and how we implementthem.
So I concluded that technologyitself.
It's not the technology itselfthat make the difference, but
it's the people and their ideas.
Talent requisition may seem likean HR thing, but I always
believe that like minded peopleattract each other.
(15:39):
So that's why I invested a lotof time in letting people know
about me and my team.
activities such as discord cardspresentation and universities
and supporting mentorshipinternship program, I think will
help to get the public knowabout the team and hence attract
(16:03):
more talent from retainingtalent.
Perspective.
I think it is really difficultin such a competitive market,
and especially when people knowthat we are in the forefront of
technology and our people alwaysbecome target easily.
I think the key to retain talentis to understand that individual
(16:26):
goal.
I invest time in understandingmyself schools and help them to
paint a picture.
On what it takes for them toachieve their goals with that
current job.
So as a leader, I always keep mydoor open.
I am honest on my feedback and Iencourage others to give
(16:47):
feedback to me as well.
My goal is for all my immediatestaff to be able to clearly tell
their own strength and area forimprovement.
I also encourage them to do thesame with their own support.
So they can find themselves thaton their values with us and
(17:08):
although see their career patheasily, so they will retain with
us.
David Kong (17:14):
That's great.
And just curious.
Technology is such a hot fieldright now.
And there're so many companieslooking for technology talent.
MGM is a casino operation, andyou have a big I.
T.
Department.
But at the same time, the careerprogression isn't as good as a
(17:35):
place like Google or Amazon orone of those tech companies.
How do you actually build acareer path and retain the
talent?
Winnie Ho (17:44):
First of all, I truly believe that different people
want a different career path.
Let's say, when I have my kidsthat I, that were young, I might
want to career path that mightbe a little bit slow and so that
I will have time for my kids.
And some people who are in their20th without kids, without a
(18:06):
family, they might want to put alot of effort to excel their
career ladder.
So hence, I have I like what Isaid, I, one I want to build is
I will cater a career path basedon what they.
Need and I will feed what theyneed to what we have what we can
(18:29):
offer from the MGM perspectiveand help them to get what they
want.
And so as to help the company.
David Kong (18:37):
That's great to hear.
Thank you.
Let's talk about impostersyndrome.
Many of the underrepresentedgroups have talked about the
imposter syndrome, the feelingthat they don't belong.
Have you experienced that?
And if so, how do you shift yourmindset-become more productive
and constructive.
Winnie Ho (18:57):
As an Asian woman in tech, I am aware that I'm part
of an underrepresented group.
I think imposter syndrome can bedivided into two parts.
The first part is, doubtingone's skills and talent.
And the second part is to fearof being exposed as a fraud.
I experienced both in my lifejourney.
(19:19):
And I want to talk about thesecond part first, the fear of
being exposed as a fraud.
I remember that one our ex CEOMr.
Graham Bowie once said in apublic speech that there is no
need to hide any mistake.
Because people can see so I toldmyself that if if I am a fraud
(19:46):
with or without fear is alreadya fact and people can see it
already.
So that part I overcome itbecause I keep telling that and
in terms of the first part, likehaving doubts about my skills
(20:08):
and my talent.
Think I don't necessarily it'snot necessary about overcoming
them completely.
Instead I will try to channelthese feelings into actions that
I can improve myself.
And by doing so, I can turn mynegative feelings into positive
(20:31):
forces that drive me to learnand grow.
However, there are times thatthose feelings could still
persist.
And sometimes, unconscious biashelps reinforces those feelings.
So what I normally do is I willchoose to share my feelings with
(20:52):
someone.
I will go to someone that Itrust, someone who is not in my
profession functional area sothat they can be more objective.
But then, most of the time Theyonly need to listen because more
than often when I put myfeelings into words, the
(21:15):
feelings and the imagined.
And also the fact will come outeasily.
And that helps me to overcomethose feelings.
David Kong (21:27):
Those are great lessons and great advice for the
audience.
And I know many people havetalked about overcoming the
imposter syndrome by doingsomething constructive and
positive.
As you have mentioned, getbetter at something.
It's a motivation to be evenstronger than you are.
And having a support network,like you mentioned, is
(21:49):
important.
Someone whom you can share someof these feelings with, that's
really good advice.
Now, a lot of people on our showhave attributed taking risks to
their success.
And I was just wondering, what'syour experience in terms of
taking risks?
And if you have taken big risksbefore, how do you prepare
yourself mentally to take onthose risks?
Winnie Ho (22:11):
I have to confess that I am adverse to certain
type of risk.
For example, last week I was inTaiwan and my friends tried very
hard to make me ride a bike tocommute around busy streets in
the Taipei City.
I simply refused to do that.
(22:33):
So call me a risk adverser, ifyou may.
But having said that I think Iam doing pretty good at taking
other risk risk that canpossibly have big impact to my
life, things like becoming ahousewife, moving back to Canada
and I do think the biggest riskthat I have taken in my life is
(22:56):
having kids.
Like most of the risks that wetake, if we fail, you know what?
We can do it over, but forhaving kids, you cannot undo a
person.
Kudos to all the mothers andfathers.
I think they are all great risktakers.
And speaking of taking risks inmy career, I say the
(23:21):
prerequisite of my role alreadyrequired me to be a good.
Calculated risk taker, as I haveto consistently make decisions
on technologies and beinnovative on solutions, right?
But as a woman in tech industry,I think it is more about whether
(23:44):
people allow me Today riskswhether others have the faith in
me.
Listen to me.
That on what I want to do andaccept my ideas.
iN order for me, in order forpeople to earn my to earn in
order for me to earn othersapproval, my solution to that is
(24:08):
I give others the chance to knowme, work with them, And
gradually build the trust andlet them see the work I
delivered.
This way people will start valueme for who I am, but not simply
(24:29):
judge for what I am.
I think the solutions has beenworking pretty well for me so
far.
David Kong (24:38):
It has indeed.
Look at the awards that you havewon and the reputation you enjoy
in the industry.
You are right about buildingtrust.
I think that's fundamental toanybody's success.
Now we have all faced our fairshare of challenges in our
career, and I was just wonderingif you can share some of the
challenges that you have facedand how you muster up the
(25:00):
courage and resilience toeventually prevail.
Winnie Ho (25:02):
There are people out there who are afraid of height.
And, they will seek out highplaces often to test themselves.
I think I am one of those.
I believe that by pushing myBoundaries little by little, I
can build up my resilience andto take challenges.
(25:24):
To give you my example I am veryscared of public speaking.
Although a lot of people willdoubt me because I have been
doing a lot.
it Was my worst nightmare, butinstead of avoiding it.
(25:44):
I decided to face it head on.
I joined the Toastmasters Club.
I give presentations atuniversities and clubs, and I
join panel discussions.
A couple of years ago, I evenstarted learning Mandarin
because Mandarin is mychallenge.
(26:07):
So at my age, I find a Chineseteacher and teach me to speak
Mandarin, and a couple of monthsago, I did my very first
Mandarin work speech in mainlandChina, and I feel so good about
it.
So I really think, that if Icontinuously putting myself bit
(26:32):
by bit into small challenge, Ican eventually get myself
prepared to go for bigger ones.
David Kong (26:41):
You are so right.
You have to face your challengeshead on.
And I love what you said aboutToastmaster and speaking at
different forums or universitiesto improve your public speaking
skills.
You're an exceptional speaker.
I think anyone listening to thisinterview will find that you are
very accomplished in thatregard.
(27:02):
By the way, we have something incommon.
I, too, joined Postmaster.
I did that for three years about30 years ago, and I really
enjoyed that.
And it greatly Improved mypublic speaking skills.
Till this day, I'm still verywatchful for my ar's and ums and
other fellow words.
Winnie Ho (27:21):
Me too.
I love the support system thatthey they have been providing
me.
Yeah,
David Kong (27:26):
It's a wonderful program.
Now we are running a little lowon time.
I have two more questions.
I'd like to ask you.
The first one is you are muchmore experienced now, but
looking back at your careerjourney, what advice would you
give to your younger self?
Winnie Ho (27:45):
Oh, okay.
I remember I heard the sameanswer from your previous
podcast.
I would advise her to take morebreaks and time out.
I don't know.
It is probably the result ofimposter syndrome.
I tend to work hard, very hard,and I have made some regrettable
(28:06):
decisions and mistakes in thepast when I pushed myself too
hard.
I learned lessons the hard way,but because of that, it taught
me the value of finding ahealthy balance.
So now I will prioritize myselfto take better care of myself
(28:27):
and allow myself to take regularbreaks.
I even put it on my calendar tomake sure that I take a break
during the day to freshen up mymind.
David Kong (28:40):
That's wonderful advice.
Thank you for sharing that.
I especially like the one that'sabout not being so hard on
yourself because we, as membersof underrepresented groups, tend
to push ourselves very hard.
We have to try harder and it'sgood advice that we need to take
time to smell the roses and takecare of ourselves too.
(29:02):
Yeah.
Our show is about selfempowerment, so I was wondering
if you can share some advice onwhat we can do to empower
ourselves.
Winnie Ho (29:12):
There is a Chinese saying which translates to
living in the present moment.
It encouraged us to be fullypresent and engaged in the
current moment, rather thanthinking about the past or
worrying about the future.
The future.
I think life always take us inan unexpected path that we never
(29:36):
anticipated.
Personally, I never expectedmyself to be a housewife and I
certainly never imagined myselfmoving back to Canada, moving
back to Macau.
However, situation would take usto a different path.
And it was during my time as ahousewife that I realized how
much I enjoyed and missed mybeauteous job.
(29:57):
So now.
I have the opportunity to returnto WordPress.
I truly treasure everyopportunities that come my way.
Therefore, my last advice wouldbe to ask our listeners to think
about what you really want inlife and go for it.
(30:18):
So that when you become 80 or 90years old, you will look back
and regret about your life.
David Kong (30:27):
That's great.
I love that.
Have a goal in life and go at itwith full gusto.
I love that.
Thanks for sharing that.
Thank you.
I'm afraid that's all the timethat we have.
And I really enjoyed thisinterview.
I hope you did too.
And to our audience, if youEnjoy the show.
We hope you will join us on ourwebsite, DEIadvisors.
(30:48):
Org.
There are many other interviewsof this nature and we hope to
see you there.
Thank you.
Winnie Ho (30:57):
Thank you David.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
True Crime Tonight
If you eat, sleep, and breathe true crime, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT is serving up your nightly fix. Five nights a week, KT STUDIOS & iHEART RADIO invite listeners to pull up a seat for an unfiltered look at the biggest cases making headlines, celebrity scandals, and the trials everyone is watching. With a mix of expert analysis, hot takes, and listener call-ins, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT goes beyond the headlines to uncover the twists, turns, and unanswered questions that keep us all obsessed—because, at TRUE CRIME TONIGHT, there’s a seat for everyone. Whether breaking down crime scene forensics, scrutinizing serial killers, or debating the most binge-worthy true crime docs, True Crime Tonight is the fresh, fast-paced, and slightly addictive home for true crime lovers.