August 19, 2024 • 30 mins
Zach shares his experiences with imposter syndrome and find out whether he's a risk taker or risk averse. He discusses his strategies for public speaking, how his curiosity drives him, and how he tries to combine his career and personal life in ways that provide him balance. Zach talks about his mentors, his mentoring, and his advice to his younger self.
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Rachel Humphrey (00:02):
Good afternoon.
I'm Rachel Humphrey with D.
E.
I.
Advisors.
We are a nonprofit organizationdedicated to empowering personal
success in the hospitalityindustry, and I'm very excited
to be joined today by Zach withZach to move global head of
hotels research for JLL..
Zach.
How are you?
Zach Demuth (00:21):
I'm awesome, Rachel.
Thank you so much for having metoday.
I'm really honored and excitedto be here.
Rachel Humphrey (00:26):
I am looking forward to a fun conversation,
getting to know you a little bitmore.
Here's some about your journeyand some of the insights you've
learned along the way.
So we will jump right in.
Tell me a little bit about yourpath to leadership.
One of the things I love aboutthe hospitality industry is
that.
We do not all have to take thesame path to end up exactly
where we want to go.
(00:47):
So tell us a little bit aboutyour journey, how you got to
where you are, and if there wereany pivotal moments in that
path.
Zach Demuth (00:52):
For sure.
It's funny, I was thinking backto my story when you and I, when
you first approached me and justpreparing a little bit for this.
And if you had told me like 10years ago that I'd be where I am
right now, first, I would haveprobably not known what JLL was.
And then second.
I'm not sure I would believe youfor many different reasons.
I was really fortunate.
I grew up just outside of BostonMy parents always really
(01:14):
prioritized travel they alwaystaught us that travel was a way
to experience the world andexperience other people's
perspectives So I was fortunateto grow up and travel in
different places bothdomestically and abroad I
remember as a kid checking intovarious hotels and always being
enamored by what I thought waslike these mini cities.
Like you'd check in, people seemto know your name if you were at
(01:37):
a hotel that had turned downservice as a kid, they'd leave
you a little note.
And I guess I didn't really puttwo and two together that
there's actually an industry,obvious now, but there's this
whole hospitality industry.
When I went to school, I reallywanted to study journalism.
I've always liked to write.
I like the idea of, I'm a bigavid reader and I like the idea
of conveying emotions, viawords.
(02:00):
I've also really liked food andI thought I could be a food
journalist.
But one of the first classes Itook happened to be in a
hospitality school.
And I think that's really whenit clicked for me that, wow, all
these hotels that I've stayed atover the years, there's actually
this whole industry behind it.
And so I ended up studyinghospitality management.
I went undergrad at BostonUniversity and I'm not lying
when I say I really loved everyminute of it.
(02:22):
I've.
Always been a lifelong learner.
I ended up going back yearslater and getting my master's
and not just, not because Iwanted to launch my career per
se, but because I just love tolearn.
And I've always been verycurious.
And when I've studied, when Istarted hospitality for me, it
was like every day, somethingexciting, right?
Oh, you get to learn how hotelsare built.
Hotels are designed.
The things that I think many ofus in this industry gravitate
(02:43):
to.
And that just really piqued myinterest.
And from there I went on to workat Marriott for about 10 years
in various strategy and revenuemanagement roles.
Again, telling stories with datahas always intrigued me,
blending art and science.
And I know we'll get into it,but so many mentors along the
way, so many people that taughtme so much, pointed me in
different directions, again,places that I never really
(03:05):
envisioned that I'd end up.
I think a lot of it was.
Being put in front ofopportunities and then saying
yes to those opportunities,which is something I tell
students that I try to mentorall the time.
And my path has been anythingbut linear.
And I've listened to a ton ofpeople that you've interviewed.
And I think that's one of thecommon themes is that, you might
think you're going to end up oneplace and you have every
(03:25):
intention to get up there andthen you end up somewhere else
and it's not necessarily betteror worse.
It's just different.
And so I look back, I've had theopportunity to work in so many
different markets, meet so manypeople, travel, which is
something I love.
I've been with JLL now for aboutthree years.
And again, it's been an amazingexperience.
A lot of it's due to the peopleI work with.
I think hospitality isinherently a clearly a people
(03:48):
business and yeah, I've justbeen very fortunate.
I, again, I think back to 10, 15years ago, never would have
thought I've ended up here andsometimes.
I don't think I should be here,and I know we'll talk about
that.
But yeah, it's been really anamazing journey.
And I will say, I know we'lltalk about Mentor shortly, but a
lot of, I think, why I ended upin hospitality and hotels is the
(04:10):
credit to my family.
My mom's parents were Holocaustsurvivors, and they came to the
US with basically nothing in the1930s and 40s.
And I think one thing mygrandmother was fortunate to
know for the first 10 years ofmy life taught me is that it's
all about people and makingconnections with people.
And that to me is no matter whatpart of hospitality you're in
and hotels, it's all aboutpeople and making those
(04:32):
connections.
Rachel Humphrey (04:33):
You just touched on so many things, not
just that we're going to talkabout, but.
Saying yes to opportunities thatmay not be in a linear path.
I think we do hear that a lot.
The opportunity to have a careerin any, I say this all the time,
you can be anything you want inthe hospitality industry.
You can be a data scientist andhave a career in picking
(04:55):
hospitality as your industry.
Sometimes I wait until, We're alittle bit further along before
I tell our audience why I'veasked you to join me
specifically because aseverybody knows, I have somehow
had my career or my leadershipimpacted by interaction with
you.
And I wanted to share thatquickly now because a couple of
(05:16):
the first questions I want toask you about that.
You and I first met a couple ofyears ago when you were going to
be a panelist on a panel.
I was moderating.
We finished the prep call And I,I don't remember if I called you
or emailed you and I said, Ididn't understand a word that
you had said, which you did, youtook so much time over the next
couple of months to sharearticles with me, to share data
(05:37):
with me, to explain the sciencebehind what you were talking
about.
It was not a full data panel.
And I was.
So interested not only in theway that public speaking
opportunity brought us together,but also how my curiosity and
learning something new and howgracious you were to say, yes,
let me teach you everything thatI can at that time period.
(05:59):
And so I thank you for that.
Because I really think that'ssuch a great example of this
industry and the way everybodywants to help lift everybody
else up around them.
But it also shows in some wayshow important public speaking
can be in a path to leadership.
So I want to start there and askhave you always been comfortable
(06:21):
with it?
Do you have secrets that youprepare each time?
What is the exact preparation topublic speaking and the strategy
behind it?
Zach Demuth (06:29):
For sure.
First thanks for sharing thatstory.
I do remember when we met and Ifirmly believe in education.
Curio, I'm a very curiousperson.
So when people ask me questions,I'm happy to jump in.
And people have done that for meover my career too.
On the topic of public speaking,it's funny.
I'm a very shy person.
I am an introvert in manycapacities.
I always say to my wife, thankGod we met because we can go to
(06:52):
a party and she can talk toanybody.
All I need to know is one personand that's, then I'm happy.
So public speaking has terrifiedme for years.
I remember in prior roles when Iwould be asked to speak, even at
internal speaking where,everyone, you're not on stage,
no one's recording it.
I would rehearse for hours andhours.
And somebody gave me thisfeedback, actually a former boss
(07:13):
of mine, and now we've becomequite good friends.
It's great to rehearse, right?
You should know what you want tosay, but in some ways, if you
rehearse too much, you come offsounding robotic, or in some
ways you come off sounding torehearse and that you don't
actually know what you'retalking about.
And what she said is thatchances are, if you're asked to
speak on something, you're anexpert or close to an expert and
more than most people in thatroom.
(07:34):
And so you should own thatagain, not doesn't mean being
cocky or whatever.
And I think that's somethingI've really taken to heart over
the years.
I still am terrified to publicspeak.
I get so much imposter syndromebefore I get on stage.
And I thought it was just me fora while.
And I think actually thispodcast has helped me a lot
because I've listened to leadersthat I've admired much of my
career, many of whom I've nevermet in person.
(07:55):
And a lot of them say somesemblance of that.
And to me, that's reallycomforting.
I'll also say that I wasrecently at an event with our
America's CEO and I don't knowif he thought I was nervous or
whatever, but I said somethingto him before we got on stage
and he said, Oh, I have the samething.
And so I think that kind ofacknowledgement that all of us
have some level, whether it'simposter syndrome, fear, doubt,
(08:18):
recognizing we all have that nomatter what level you're at.
To me, that gives me a lot ofcomfort.
I would say my strategies forgetting past that first is.
Again, accepting that you havethis level of knowledge.
Again, I'm not trying to becocky, but knowing some level
gives you comfort, right?
You're being asked to talk aboutsomething, about nothing.
I'm not being asked to give adissertation on rocket science,
(08:39):
for which I know zero, I'm beingasked to talk about something
that I actually know about.
And so I can, when you speakabout something, I think it's
easier.
I've also been taught, and thisis incredibly uncomfortable, but
I do it anyway, is if you'regoing to give us a long speech,
it's going to be recorded.
You know the topic like practiceand record yourself doing it and
then watch your own recordingand yes I'll admit there's very
(09:02):
little that's more uncomfortableto me than watching myself speak
or listening myself speak Butyou learn a lot about yourself
whether it's like nervous ticsyou have, Little filler words
the way you say things And I'llsay that's been super helpful.
So I, I encourage people thateither hate publishing or people
that love it.
I'm gonna say you do that everytime you speak at some point, it
becomes second nature, but it'sbeen really helpful for me over
(09:24):
the years.
Rachel Humphrey (09:25):
Those are two really important points.
Number one, the knowing thatyou're a subject matter expert
on what you're being asked tospeak about, but also the
practice, as you mentioned, Ihave done that a lot.
And now with this podcast, I getto see myself 50 times a year.
But we always learn somethingfrom doing it.
And I think that's a greatthing.
You mentioned imposter syndrome.
(09:46):
So we're going to move rightinto that, because I think that
I, like you not only have morethan my share of it, but it have
been.
Really impacted by so manyleaders sharing that and finding
it relatable and thinking, okay,it isn't just me or there's not
something wrong with me.
Talk in a little bit about thoseself doubts and that building up
(10:09):
that confidence or therelatability that you find when
other leaders share that.
Same perspective.
Zach Demuth (10:16):
Yeah, no, it's a really good question.
I thought about it a lot.
I think, the role that I'm innow, a lot of it is public
facing, right?
Whether it's in panels like theone you described, whether it's
in the things we publish, whichare public facing, and it's
almost like a little piece ofyou is going out there.
And I think there's I'll saypersonally, I have a lot of fear
about that.
Is it enough?
Did I come?
(10:36):
Did I address all theperspectives?
And I think it's to me, at leastvery helpful to say the answer
is no, like you didn't addressall the perspectives because you
can't.
And that's okay.
I think it goes back to havingconfidence and you're there for
a reason, whatever that reasonis, whether it's your expertise,
whether it's your experience,some combination therein, and
(10:57):
you have to acknowledge that andrecognize it.
And then I think to me again,it's really understanding that.
Everyone has some level ofdoubt, whether even the most
confident, seemingly cockypeople share that.
And so you're really not alone,but recognizing that you're
there for a reason, I think hasbeen extremely helpful.
But I struggle with it all thetime.
I talked to our team about it.
(11:18):
I think a lot of people strugglewith it and think that they're
alone.
And I think again, to me Havingthis acknowledgement that
everyone shares it is, has beenreally gratifying and really
beneficial.
But it's funny thinking back tomy career journey thus far and
overcoming self doubt.
I think back five or six yearsago when I made the decision or
the thought that I wanted to getinto more of the real estate
(11:40):
side.
I remember thinking, okay, like,how can I learn more?
How can I learn more?
And I remember reading like,Just at CBRE's at the time, Mark
Woodworth, who had, the positionthat I have, but at CB, all of
his stuff and be like, wow itwould be like, how could I ever
get to something like that?
And that'll never happen to allthis.
And then I sit here and again,I'm not comparing myself, but to
a similar position, right?
And it's I don't really belong.
(12:02):
But then I get, you have to takethe compliments you get and say
you, you do belong to somecapacity.
Yeah.
But it's a never it's aninternal battle.
I think that personally neveracts.
Rachel Humphrey (12:14):
I appreciate you're sharing that just as it
has been important and relatablefor you to hear it from others.
So to now paying it forward,there will be others who hear
you say it and we'll feel veryempowered by that as well.
You mentioned in your journeyand then again another time the
importance of mentors andchampions in your path, and that
can mean many things to manydifferent people.
(12:36):
Talk some about that.
The people or the kinds ofpeople that have been really
impactful for you.
And then as you're mentoringothers, how do you go about
advising others?
Zach Demuth (12:47):
Yeah, I definitely wouldn't be where I am today
professionally without mentors,both formal and informal.
And I think that's where I'dstart, right?
Whether I'm mentoring somebodyformally or informally, I think
whether you're young in yourcareer, whatever stage you are
in a career, recognize thatmentors can come in all shapes
and sizes, right?
It doesn't have to be thisformalized relationship.
I hear from students a lot.
(13:08):
It's Oh, I don't have a mentor.
And the reality is yourprofessors can be your mentors.
Your peers can be your mentors.
I'll start with my parents wereprobably my first mentors
probably still are today.
Very always encouraged me totake risks, my risk averse
person, but to the degree thatit feels comfortable to take
risks, I think professionallyfor me, I've had mentors of so
many different varieties.
(13:29):
I can think back to some of myearliest jobs.
People that kind of called meout.
One thing that I always try toteach students or I do a lot of
teaching, mentoring students isit's okay to not know something.
And that's a lesson I learnedearly in my career when I tried
to, thought that I kneweverything and clearly didn't.
And somebody called me out andthat became a mentorship, right?
(13:49):
Is I think a good mentor issomebody that encourages you,
but also like calls you out oncertain things and pushes back
and challenges you.
I think professionally, some ofmy best mentors, again, people
that either were my directbosses, a lot of peers, people
that had done things before me.
The reality is in the hotelindustry, there's a lot of
things that are being done new,but more of the oldest
industries in the world.
(14:10):
And so I can learn a lot frompeople that have done it before,
people that are doing it today.
And so I've made a lot ofconnections that way.
And then I also think as youcrystallize what you want to do
in your career or where you wantto be or who you want to be
around, find those people thatappeal to you, whether it's
people you've seen speak onpodcasts like this, whether it's
people you've seen speak inconferences, whether it's things
you've read.
(14:30):
I will say our industry, I'venever been in other industries,
but I think our industry is oneof the more open ones and people
have I've reached out to so manypeople and part of it is being
in the role I'm in.
I feel more confident to dothat, but I feel like at any
level you can, and people arewilling to speak, just a couple,
I don't want to call outspecific people too much because
I don't want to forget anybody,but like a couple people that
(14:50):
have been so important to me.
First, like our former CEO atJLL, Hilda one of the most
impactful people I've ever beenaround.
I met her years before I joinedJLL, stayed connected.
And that's how I ultimatelyended up here.
Just really incredible.
And then my time at Marriott, Ihad so many just amazing mentors
and again, people that arechallenging you, but also
(15:12):
encouraging you to see differentpaths forward that you might
have not otherwise expected.
Rachel Humphrey (15:17):
I love that.
It's interesting too.
I like the part about formal andinformal mentors and people
telling you that they don't havethem when they just maybe
haven't identified someone assuch.
I mentioned earlier, you're oneof mine because I can reach out
to you.
And I mentioned the publicspeaking, but I actually have
reached out to you several timessince then on other things as
well.
So really establishing thoserelationships of having a system
(15:38):
of people you can call on fordifferent things.
You talked earlier about yourcuriosity and of all of the
themes that we talk about on thepodcast, that's probably the one
that comes up the most isleaders telling us how they
believe their curiosity hasreally driven their career.
I know you consider yourself notonly a lifelong learner, but a
(15:59):
very curious person.
Talk about how that has reallyimpacted your career path and
where you put it to use.
Zach Demuth (16:07):
Yeah, for sure.
I think again, I know we'vetalked about a lot, but it kind
of journey of getting here tome.
I credit a lot of it with notjust my own curiosity, but
mentors that have pushed me tolook in different places.
I love to learn like when I wasin college, I took extra classes
and things that I had nointerest in doing in my life
just because I wanted thatexposure.
That's now it's, I guess it'snine years ago.
(16:29):
It's a bit scary, but I wentback and got my master's degree.
Not because I thought it wouldnecessarily help me earn more
money, although that would begreat.
But really just because I wantedto learn more, I realized I
didn't have the exposure to realestate.
I spent my career to that point,all in sort of hotel operations
on the management side.
I was always fascinated andconfused to some degree around
(16:50):
how they decide to open hotels.
Where they open them.
And I realized I just had thismassive hole and I could do all
the reading I wanted, but to beable to go back to an
educational institutionsurrounded by experts in the
field, that was my best pathforward.
And so I went back to schoolstrictly for that reason, just
for curiosity, an amazingdecision.
In hindsight, I met someincredible people, talk about
(17:11):
mentorship, networking.
To me, that is the essence ofhospitality.
And I really learned that there.
And then in my career, right?
I think, one of the pieces ofadvice I try to give, again,
students or people that I mentorand early in their career is
it's just because something isthe way it is, doesn't mean it
has to be moving forward.
I think we're often,particularly in big
organizations.
(17:31):
I've worked for two very largeorganizations and Marriott and
JLL.
There's a lot of processes.
A lot of things are done thesame way over and over.
There's some of them for areason, and some of them not.
And I think for me, some of theways I've been able to be
successful in my career is.
And to me that is questioningwhy things are done, that they
have to be done in that way.
And again, applying a curiosityto it.
It doesn't mean you go in andsaying it has to change, but
(17:52):
question, look around, see ifyou can find people.
And again, to me, that'scuriosity.
I always consider myself,somebody actually told me this
word the other day, anintrapreneur.
It's like an entrepreneur, butyeah, I guess it's an accepted
word.
And to me that is curiosity.
If that's a curious person,right?
You, whether you're anentrepreneur, clearly curious,
then in my case, you work for alarge organization, you have to
(18:15):
be curious, you have to want tofind new things, and I'll say
just a last thought is I'vechanged jobs multiple times in
my career, both within the sameorganization and elsewhere.
And one of the impetus is for mewanting, getting to the point
where I think I want to changejobs is if I'm not learning
consistently in that job.
(18:36):
Part of that is on you.
I think.
There's, when you start a newjob, you're going to learn no
matter what, but then tocontinue, you have to find, you
have to be that kind of personthat uncovers new rocks and
tries to ask new questions.
But at some point that is, notevery job, but at some point
that's going to go away.
And so to me, anytime I feellike I'm, I've, my curiosity and
I'm not able to find new thingsto learn.
(18:58):
That's when I take the next stepand try to figure out, is there
another path I can go either inthe organization, outside the
organization, maybe addingadditional responsibilities.
But to me, that's what drivesme.
Some, somebody asked merecently, like what motivates
me?
A lot of things, but curiosityis definitely high on that list.
Rachel Humphrey (19:15):
I like the self awareness that goes along with
that too, to say, I'm not sureI'm following through on the
curiosity I have as far as hasthis role.
Have I taken this role maybe asfar as I can.
Or is there something else out,but I'm actually going to
question you on somethingbecause earlier you said, I am a
very risk averse person.
One thing I've realized aboutmyself is I say that all the
(19:36):
time, but some of the greatestsuccesses I've had in my
personal and professional lifehave been from the biggest risks
that I've taken.
You have switched roles.
You've switched careers in thesense of the focus of your
career.
Many would identify those as bigrisks.
How do you evaluate, especiallyas a risk averse person, how do
you evaluate risk and reallydecide which ones are worth
(19:58):
taking and what you're going topass on?
Zach Demuth (20:00):
That's a good, that's a good point.
I think, yeah, I've said I'mrisk averse for so long that
it's just.
The party line.
Yeah, you're right.
I guess maybe a better way todescribe is I'm very methodical.
I, I can look back.
There are some decisions I wishI would have made.
And I think to myself, thereason I didn't is because I was
fearful, which I equate to risk.
But you're right.
I definitely have made somechanges, whether it was, taking
(20:24):
a year off, essentially, andgoing back to school, giving up
income, potentially.
Negatively impacting my career.
Obviously, I've done some thingspersonally that are risky.
And then yeah moved around whenI was with Marriott I you know
moved geographically multipletimes to places.
I'd never lived before whichWhen I it's funny when I say
that particularly to my wife whoI didn't know at the time She
looks at me like i'm crazy like,how could you move a city?
(20:45):
You've never been to isn't thatso scary and it's funny at the
time.
I didn't think of it that wayBut yeah, that is a huge risk to
some capacity And then obviouslywhen I left Marriott after, more
than 10 years, that wasdefinitely in some ways a risk.
Although I look at it as verycalculated, right?
I went from a very wellrespected organization in
Marriott to a, let's say,equally respected organization
(21:06):
in JLL.
For me, whenever I've madechanges that I guess could be
considered as risky, I alwayslook at what are, very simply
what are the upsides?
And then I guess, what are thepotential risks?
I always have always been guidedby similar principles I just
discussed.
Is it going to be somethingthat's going to allow me to
learn?
That's going to allow me tolearn new things, right?
(21:26):
And part of that is the emphasison you.
You have to take self awareness,self ownership.
Part of it is on the role in theorganization.
And I will say, as I've donemore, either career changes or
role changes or taking differentsteps, I think the work you do
is important, but who you do itwith, I would say is the most
important thing.
Maybe I don't work as many hoursas I did when I was in, 10 years
(21:47):
ago.
I still work a lot of hours andI spent a lot of time with my co
workers, both in person andvirtually.
And so it's really important tomake a decision.
That you are going to enjoy theto some degree the people you're
with and to me that mitigates alot of risk yes, obviously if
you don't like what you're doingYou're you know, you're not
going to enjoy your time But ifyou don't like who you're doing
it with I would say actuallyyou're going to dislike it more
(22:09):
So to me, I would say i'mmethodical and maybe the risks
i've taken are very calculated,but it all comes back to am I
learning?
Obviously at some point in yourcareer there has to be a
monetary component I'm nottrying to dismiss that in any
way And then who is it with andis it an organization that
supports you?
You I mean, I had always saidthat the position I'm in now is
something I would aspire to inyears from now.
(22:29):
So the fact that I'm here ispinches me sometimes.
But yeah, is it an organizationsupports you, your personal
branding, and then you yourselfcan, excel in whatever you
define as excelling.
Rachel Humphrey (22:39):
I think we have a new tagline.
It's gonna be Zach Smith risktaker.
Zach Demuth (22:45):
Yeah, she tells my, to my parents.
Yeah.
My mom's always said I'm a risktaker, even though I define
myself as risk averse.
Rachel Humphrey (22:51):
Interesting.
Interesting.
I want to switch over to worklife harmony for a minute,
because this used to be aquestion I think that was very
traditionally asked of women.
How do you manage both ademanding career and having a
family?
But it really applies in someways to all of us.
I did learn recently that youand I like to vacation or travel
with our families to a similarsame place.
Talk a little bit about, youhave a demanding travel
(23:14):
schedule.
As you mentioned, you work a lotof hours, you have a family.
How do you.
Find time to really focus in onthe things that are important to
you, both on the career frontand on the home front.
And has that evolved over time?
Zach Demuth (23:29):
Yeah, to answer the last part of your question
first, it's definitely evolved,right?
I think the advent or theacceptance really of virtual
work has helped a lot, not justpost COVID.
I think in parts of the hotelindustry, at least the parts I
was in, that was to some degreeaccepted pre COVID, but
obviously it's accelerated.
As you said, I travel a lot.
I think one thing that I learnedearly on is I got to go to some
(23:49):
amazing places, and a lot of myfriends would say, oh, you,
you're, I worked in theCaribbean for a long time, and
Oh, you get to be in theCaribbean.
And not really yes, I get to bethere, but like I'm in a
windowless room or I can, it'sworse if there is a window
because like I'm not outside.
And I was used to say that as ajoke, although partly serious.
And then somebody once said tome is okay, that's all true.
(24:09):
Yes, you are working and.
You're not on the beach, butlike, why don't you take a day
and be on the beach?
Why don't at the time I had agirlfriend, now you're my wife,
my family.
Like, why don't you takeadvantage?
Yes, you're not going todiminish the work you do, but
blend the two things you love.
I joined the hospitalityindustry in some sense, because
I love to travel.
And like I said, at thebeginning, Experience the world
in different ways.
(24:30):
Do that to your capacity, youcan like, we work in an amazing
industry.
And so I will say that'ssomething I've really embraced
over the last five or six years.
And yeah not every trip by anystretch.
But when it's possible, I think.
Work does take me some amazingplaces.
And so to prioritize that, Ialso think, and again, this is
probably not unique to hotels,but work is never done.
(24:51):
Whether it's on your phonewhatever the case might be,
anyone can reach you.
You're always going to moreemails.
My, my wife's mom tragicallypassed away very early last
year.
And she always says she wouldtrade all the meetings that she
went to, she would have tradedall those for another few days
with her mom.
And that to me is like reallyhit home.
And I have some friendssimilarly passed away young.
And so somebody said to me, areyou going to remember this email
(25:14):
in a week?
No, a month.
Definitely not all that stuff.
So to me, I just think you haveto prioritize what's important
and also take advantage of someof the amazing things that this
industry offers.
And particularly if you likethose, and Take the advantage to
the degree that you're able to
Rachel Humphrey (25:30):
wow.
I appreciate that.
That's tremendous advice And i'mreally glad that you shared that
when we talk about Maybe timesthat are changing a little bit
You were talking about a littlebit more of virtual or remote
work some of these other aspectsof post covid One of the things
that i've really noticed iscoming out of covid.
There's a real renewed focus onself care and wellness whether
(25:51):
that is related to a work lifebalance, whether it's related to
other things.
Talk a little bit about yourself care wellness strategies
plan.
Is that again something that'sevolved over time?
Zach Demuth (26:05):
Yeah, for sure.
I think again, travel takes atoll on you.
As you well know you're gettingon a plane, like no matter where
you're going, like it'sexhausting and it takes a toll
on your body and everythingelse.
I think Prioritizing timeindividually is super important.
I'll credit my wife with this.
She meditates almost everymorning.
I definitely don't do it everyday, but the few days a week
(26:27):
that I do it, I find it justreally grounding.
It helps me personally.
And also I think with my work.
So I think, again, I think asI've learned in my career,
you're going to spend so muchtime working, you're going to
spend a lot of time working withother people and I look up to
other people in the way theycarry themselves.
It's obvious, but then Irealized people probably look up
(26:48):
to me.
And so in some ways, the way youdo your work is as important, if
not more important than the workyou do.
And you can only do your workwell, the way you do it.
If you yourself have some levelof groundness, some of self
care.
And so different for everybody,but for me, it's like, whether
it's some form of meditation,whether it's some form of kind
of taking breaks, but it'sreally important recognizing I
(27:09):
look up to so many people are asmuch as I don't really believe
it all the time, recognizingpeople are also.
Looking up to me to somecapacity.
Rachel Humphrey (27:18):
It's so important to hear you talk about
modeling that behavior forothers, because if others see
that you give yourselfpermission to meditate or make a
break or reset or whatever itis, then it grants them maybe
the confidence to do the samething.
Zach, much like every time Icall you for advice and
information, I could talk withyou all day about a million
(27:38):
things, but we are going to runout of time.
So I want to ask two last quickquestions.
Our regular listeners know thatmy favorite question to ask is
our advice to our youngerselves, because I really think
that we're all works inprogress.
And part of that is reflection.
As you sit here today, what doyou tell 21 year old Zach about
either how things will play outfor you over time or something
(28:03):
that may have made your journeya little bit easier for you if
you knew it then?
Zach Demuth (28:08):
Yeah, I think first.
Where you end up and where Iended up, years later is totally
different than when I thought Iwould have ended up at age 21.
So I think the advice to givemyself, it's okay to not know.
I feel like I pressured myself alot, whether it was in college,
post college, earlier in mycareer, to know exactly what I
wanted to do next.
To know the answer to everyquestion in the room, as an
(28:29):
example.
I think, I wish I would havetold myself, it's okay, and in
fact, it's going to end upgreat.
The decisions you make, one wayor the other, are, some are very
challenging, some maybe notwhere you want it to be, but
really challenging.
really positive, but take thepressure off yourself.
And I'll say, I talked to a lotof students who feel like I
asked them what are theyinterested in?
And it's they've rehearsed thisreally well manicured answer.
(28:52):
And I did the same, but it'sokay.
It's okay to not know.
And it's funny thinking aboutit, I'd say I am more, risk
tolerant than I thought, but Ithink there are some decisions
to maybe I could have been evenmore tolerant of risk, right?
So it's okay to not know, andit's okay to try things that
maybe you don't think you like,don't think they'll end up in
the place you want it to.
(29:14):
But, wherever you end up, thatpath seems to have worked out.
Rachel Humphrey (29:19):
I'd be interested in talking to Zach,
food journalist, and seeing whatadvice he would have for me the
next time that I see you.
As we wrap up today in thinkingabout DEI advisors and our motto
of empowering personal success,is there a final nugget of
wisdom that you would share withour listeners?
I
Zach Demuth (29:40):
think it goes back to what I was saying before.
First, be open to possibilities,say yes to opportunities.
You have to put yourself inopportunities way, but you have
to say yes and have a level ofconfidence in what you're doing.
I think, again I struggle withself doubt all the time, as you
mentioned, so many leaders do,but whatever it is you're doing,
you're an expert in that.
You're going to become an expertin that and have that level of
(30:00):
confidence.
But say yes to opportunities,it's okay to not know.
And then question norms.
I think that level of curiosityis just so important.
Rachel Humphrey (30:09):
That's such a great place to wrap up,
especially with the questioningnorms.
Zach, thank you so much.
I know you have a lot of waysyou can spend your day.
I'm super appreciative of youchoosing to spend it.
With us.
But thank you for yourleadership and thank you for the
impact that you've had, as Imentioned a couple of times on
me personally but thank you forjoining us.
Zach Demuth (30:28):
Thank you so much, Rachel.
I really, truly am touched andhonored that you invited me
today
Rachel Humphrey (30:33):
and to our listeners.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
We hope you will visit us at DEIadvisors.
org to hear from nearly 200other industry leaders as they
also share their journeys andthe insights they've learned
along the way.
Thanks for joining us.
Good afternoon.
I'm Rachel Humphrey with D.
E.
I.
Advisors.
We are a nonprofit organizationdedicated to empowering personal
success in the hospitalityindustry, and I'm very excited
to be joined today by Zach withZach to move global head of
hotels research for JLL..
Zach.
How are you?
Zach Demuth (00:21):
I'm awesome, Rachel.
Thank you so much for having metoday.
I'm really honored and excitedto be here.
Rachel Humphrey (00:26):
I am looking forward to a fun conversation,
getting to know you a little bitmore.
Here's some about your journeyand some of the insights you've
learned along the way.
So we will jump right in.
Tell me a little bit about yourpath to leadership.
One of the things I love aboutthe hospitality industry is
that.
We do not all have to take thesame path to end up exactly
where we want to go.
(00:47):
So tell us a little bit aboutyour journey, how you got to
where you are, and if there wereany pivotal moments in that
path.
Zach Demuth (00:52):
For sure.
It's funny, I was thinking backto my story when you and I, when
you first approached me and justpreparing a little bit for this.
And if you had told me like 10years ago that I'd be where I am
right now, first, I would haveprobably not known what JLL was.
And then second.
I'm not sure I would believe youfor many different reasons.
I was really fortunate.
I grew up just outside of BostonMy parents always really
(01:14):
prioritized travel they alwaystaught us that travel was a way
to experience the world andexperience other people's
perspectives So I was fortunateto grow up and travel in
different places bothdomestically and abroad I
remember as a kid checking intovarious hotels and always being
enamored by what I thought waslike these mini cities.
Like you'd check in, people seemto know your name if you were at
(01:37):
a hotel that had turned downservice as a kid, they'd leave
you a little note.
And I guess I didn't really puttwo and two together that
there's actually an industry,obvious now, but there's this
whole hospitality industry.
When I went to school, I reallywanted to study journalism.
I've always liked to write.
I like the idea of, I'm a bigavid reader and I like the idea
of conveying emotions, viawords.
(02:00):
I've also really liked food andI thought I could be a food
journalist.
But one of the first classes Itook happened to be in a
hospitality school.
And I think that's really whenit clicked for me that, wow, all
these hotels that I've stayed atover the years, there's actually
this whole industry behind it.
And so I ended up studyinghospitality management.
I went undergrad at BostonUniversity and I'm not lying
when I say I really loved everyminute of it.
(02:22):
I've.
Always been a lifelong learner.
I ended up going back yearslater and getting my master's
and not just, not because Iwanted to launch my career per
se, but because I just love tolearn.
And I've always been verycurious.
And when I've studied, when Istarted hospitality for me, it
was like every day, somethingexciting, right?
Oh, you get to learn how hotelsare built.
Hotels are designed.
The things that I think many ofus in this industry gravitate
(02:43):
to.
And that just really piqued myinterest.
And from there I went on to workat Marriott for about 10 years
in various strategy and revenuemanagement roles.
Again, telling stories with datahas always intrigued me,
blending art and science.
And I know we'll get into it,but so many mentors along the
way, so many people that taughtme so much, pointed me in
different directions, again,places that I never really
(03:05):
envisioned that I'd end up.
I think a lot of it was.
Being put in front ofopportunities and then saying
yes to those opportunities,which is something I tell
students that I try to mentorall the time.
And my path has been anythingbut linear.
And I've listened to a ton ofpeople that you've interviewed.
And I think that's one of thecommon themes is that, you might
think you're going to end up oneplace and you have every
(03:25):
intention to get up there andthen you end up somewhere else
and it's not necessarily betteror worse.
It's just different.
And so I look back, I've had theopportunity to work in so many
different markets, meet so manypeople, travel, which is
something I love.
I've been with JLL now for aboutthree years.
And again, it's been an amazingexperience.
A lot of it's due to the peopleI work with.
I think hospitality isinherently a clearly a people
(03:48):
business and yeah, I've justbeen very fortunate.
I, again, I think back to 10, 15years ago, never would have
thought I've ended up here andsometimes.
I don't think I should be here,and I know we'll talk about
that.
But yeah, it's been really anamazing journey.
And I will say, I know we'lltalk about Mentor shortly, but a
lot of, I think, why I ended upin hospitality and hotels is the
(04:10):
credit to my family.
My mom's parents were Holocaustsurvivors, and they came to the
US with basically nothing in the1930s and 40s.
And I think one thing mygrandmother was fortunate to
know for the first 10 years ofmy life taught me is that it's
all about people and makingconnections with people.
And that to me is no matter whatpart of hospitality you're in
and hotels, it's all aboutpeople and making those
(04:32):
connections.
Rachel Humphrey (04:33):
You just touched on so many things, not
just that we're going to talkabout, but.
Saying yes to opportunities thatmay not be in a linear path.
I think we do hear that a lot.
The opportunity to have a careerin any, I say this all the time,
you can be anything you want inthe hospitality industry.
You can be a data scientist andhave a career in picking
(04:55):
hospitality as your industry.
Sometimes I wait until, We're alittle bit further along before
I tell our audience why I'veasked you to join me
specifically because aseverybody knows, I have somehow
had my career or my leadershipimpacted by interaction with
you.
And I wanted to share thatquickly now because a couple of
(05:16):
the first questions I want toask you about that.
You and I first met a couple ofyears ago when you were going to
be a panelist on a panel.
I was moderating.
We finished the prep call And I,I don't remember if I called you
or emailed you and I said, Ididn't understand a word that
you had said, which you did, youtook so much time over the next
couple of months to sharearticles with me, to share data
(05:37):
with me, to explain the sciencebehind what you were talking
about.
It was not a full data panel.
And I was.
So interested not only in theway that public speaking
opportunity brought us together,but also how my curiosity and
learning something new and howgracious you were to say, yes,
let me teach you everything thatI can at that time period.
(05:59):
And so I thank you for that.
Because I really think that'ssuch a great example of this
industry and the way everybodywants to help lift everybody
else up around them.
But it also shows in some wayshow important public speaking
can be in a path to leadership.
So I want to start there and askhave you always been comfortable
(06:21):
with it?
Do you have secrets that youprepare each time?
What is the exact preparation topublic speaking and the strategy
behind it?
Zach Demuth (06:29):
For sure.
First thanks for sharing thatstory.
I do remember when we met and Ifirmly believe in education.
Curio, I'm a very curiousperson.
So when people ask me questions,I'm happy to jump in.
And people have done that for meover my career too.
On the topic of public speaking,it's funny.
I'm a very shy person.
I am an introvert in manycapacities.
I always say to my wife, thankGod we met because we can go to
(06:52):
a party and she can talk toanybody.
All I need to know is one personand that's, then I'm happy.
So public speaking has terrifiedme for years.
I remember in prior roles when Iwould be asked to speak, even at
internal speaking where,everyone, you're not on stage,
no one's recording it.
I would rehearse for hours andhours.
And somebody gave me thisfeedback, actually a former boss
(07:13):
of mine, and now we've becomequite good friends.
It's great to rehearse, right?
You should know what you want tosay, but in some ways, if you
rehearse too much, you come offsounding robotic, or in some
ways you come off sounding torehearse and that you don't
actually know what you'retalking about.
And what she said is thatchances are, if you're asked to
speak on something, you're anexpert or close to an expert and
more than most people in thatroom.
(07:34):
And so you should own thatagain, not doesn't mean being
cocky or whatever.
And I think that's somethingI've really taken to heart over
the years.
I still am terrified to publicspeak.
I get so much imposter syndromebefore I get on stage.
And I thought it was just me fora while.
And I think actually thispodcast has helped me a lot
because I've listened to leadersthat I've admired much of my
career, many of whom I've nevermet in person.
(07:55):
And a lot of them say somesemblance of that.
And to me, that's reallycomforting.
I'll also say that I wasrecently at an event with our
America's CEO and I don't knowif he thought I was nervous or
whatever, but I said somethingto him before we got on stage
and he said, Oh, I have the samething.
And so I think that kind ofacknowledgement that all of us
have some level, whether it'simposter syndrome, fear, doubt,
(08:18):
recognizing we all have that nomatter what level you're at.
To me, that gives me a lot ofcomfort.
I would say my strategies forgetting past that first is.
Again, accepting that you havethis level of knowledge.
Again, I'm not trying to becocky, but knowing some level
gives you comfort, right?
You're being asked to talk aboutsomething, about nothing.
I'm not being asked to give adissertation on rocket science,
(08:39):
for which I know zero, I'm beingasked to talk about something
that I actually know about.
And so I can, when you speakabout something, I think it's
easier.
I've also been taught, and thisis incredibly uncomfortable, but
I do it anyway, is if you'regoing to give us a long speech,
it's going to be recorded.
You know the topic like practiceand record yourself doing it and
then watch your own recordingand yes I'll admit there's very
(09:02):
little that's more uncomfortableto me than watching myself speak
or listening myself speak Butyou learn a lot about yourself
whether it's like nervous ticsyou have, Little filler words
the way you say things And I'llsay that's been super helpful.
So I, I encourage people thateither hate publishing or people
that love it.
I'm gonna say you do that everytime you speak at some point, it
becomes second nature, but it'sbeen really helpful for me over
(09:24):
the years.
Rachel Humphrey (09:25):
Those are two really important points.
Number one, the knowing thatyou're a subject matter expert
on what you're being asked tospeak about, but also the
practice, as you mentioned, Ihave done that a lot.
And now with this podcast, I getto see myself 50 times a year.
But we always learn somethingfrom doing it.
And I think that's a greatthing.
You mentioned imposter syndrome.
(09:46):
So we're going to move rightinto that, because I think that
I, like you not only have morethan my share of it, but it have
been.
Really impacted by so manyleaders sharing that and finding
it relatable and thinking, okay,it isn't just me or there's not
something wrong with me.
Talk in a little bit about thoseself doubts and that building up
(10:09):
that confidence or therelatability that you find when
other leaders share that.
Same perspective.
Zach Demuth (10:16):
Yeah, no, it's a really good question.
I thought about it a lot.
I think, the role that I'm innow, a lot of it is public
facing, right?
Whether it's in panels like theone you described, whether it's
in the things we publish, whichare public facing, and it's
almost like a little piece ofyou is going out there.
And I think there's I'll saypersonally, I have a lot of fear
about that.
Is it enough?
Did I come?
(10:36):
Did I address all theperspectives?
And I think it's to me, at leastvery helpful to say the answer
is no, like you didn't addressall the perspectives because you
can't.
And that's okay.
I think it goes back to havingconfidence and you're there for
a reason, whatever that reasonis, whether it's your expertise,
whether it's your experience,some combination therein, and
(10:57):
you have to acknowledge that andrecognize it.
And then I think to me again,it's really understanding that.
Everyone has some level ofdoubt, whether even the most
confident, seemingly cockypeople share that.
And so you're really not alone,but recognizing that you're
there for a reason, I think hasbeen extremely helpful.
But I struggle with it all thetime.
I talked to our team about it.
(11:18):
I think a lot of people strugglewith it and think that they're
alone.
And I think again, to me Havingthis acknowledgement that
everyone shares it is, has beenreally gratifying and really
beneficial.
But it's funny thinking back tomy career journey thus far and
overcoming self doubt.
I think back five or six yearsago when I made the decision or
the thought that I wanted to getinto more of the real estate
(11:40):
side.
I remember thinking, okay, like,how can I learn more?
How can I learn more?
And I remember reading like,Just at CBRE's at the time, Mark
Woodworth, who had, the positionthat I have, but at CB, all of
his stuff and be like, wow itwould be like, how could I ever
get to something like that?
And that'll never happen to allthis.
And then I sit here and again,I'm not comparing myself, but to
a similar position, right?
And it's I don't really belong.
(12:02):
But then I get, you have to takethe compliments you get and say
you, you do belong to somecapacity.
Yeah.
But it's a never it's aninternal battle.
I think that personally neveracts.
Rachel Humphrey (12:14):
I appreciate you're sharing that just as it
has been important and relatablefor you to hear it from others.
So to now paying it forward,there will be others who hear
you say it and we'll feel veryempowered by that as well.
You mentioned in your journeyand then again another time the
importance of mentors andchampions in your path, and that
can mean many things to manydifferent people.
(12:36):
Talk some about that.
The people or the kinds ofpeople that have been really
impactful for you.
And then as you're mentoringothers, how do you go about
advising others?
Zach Demuth (12:47):
Yeah, I definitely wouldn't be where I am today
professionally without mentors,both formal and informal.
And I think that's where I'dstart, right?
Whether I'm mentoring somebodyformally or informally, I think
whether you're young in yourcareer, whatever stage you are
in a career, recognize thatmentors can come in all shapes
and sizes, right?
It doesn't have to be thisformalized relationship.
I hear from students a lot.
(13:08):
It's Oh, I don't have a mentor.
And the reality is yourprofessors can be your mentors.
Your peers can be your mentors.
I'll start with my parents wereprobably my first mentors
probably still are today.
Very always encouraged me totake risks, my risk averse
person, but to the degree thatit feels comfortable to take
risks, I think professionallyfor me, I've had mentors of so
many different varieties.
(13:29):
I can think back to some of myearliest jobs.
People that kind of called meout.
One thing that I always try toteach students or I do a lot of
teaching, mentoring students isit's okay to not know something.
And that's a lesson I learnedearly in my career when I tried
to, thought that I kneweverything and clearly didn't.
And somebody called me out andthat became a mentorship, right?
(13:49):
Is I think a good mentor issomebody that encourages you,
but also like calls you out oncertain things and pushes back
and challenges you.
I think professionally, some ofmy best mentors, again, people
that either were my directbosses, a lot of peers, people
that had done things before me.
The reality is in the hotelindustry, there's a lot of
things that are being done new,but more of the oldest
industries in the world.
(14:10):
And so I can learn a lot frompeople that have done it before,
people that are doing it today.
And so I've made a lot ofconnections that way.
And then I also think as youcrystallize what you want to do
in your career or where you wantto be or who you want to be
around, find those people thatappeal to you, whether it's
people you've seen speak onpodcasts like this, whether it's
people you've seen speak inconferences, whether it's things
you've read.
(14:30):
I will say our industry, I'venever been in other industries,
but I think our industry is oneof the more open ones and people
have I've reached out to so manypeople and part of it is being
in the role I'm in.
I feel more confident to dothat, but I feel like at any
level you can, and people arewilling to speak, just a couple,
I don't want to call outspecific people too much because
I don't want to forget anybody,but like a couple people that
(14:50):
have been so important to me.
First, like our former CEO atJLL, Hilda one of the most
impactful people I've ever beenaround.
I met her years before I joinedJLL, stayed connected.
And that's how I ultimatelyended up here.
Just really incredible.
And then my time at Marriott, Ihad so many just amazing mentors
and again, people that arechallenging you, but also
(15:12):
encouraging you to see differentpaths forward that you might
have not otherwise expected.
Rachel Humphrey (15:17):
I love that.
It's interesting too.
I like the part about formal andinformal mentors and people
telling you that they don't havethem when they just maybe
haven't identified someone assuch.
I mentioned earlier, you're oneof mine because I can reach out
to you.
And I mentioned the publicspeaking, but I actually have
reached out to you several timessince then on other things as
well.
So really establishing thoserelationships of having a system
(15:38):
of people you can call on fordifferent things.
You talked earlier about yourcuriosity and of all of the
themes that we talk about on thepodcast, that's probably the one
that comes up the most isleaders telling us how they
believe their curiosity hasreally driven their career.
I know you consider yourself notonly a lifelong learner, but a
(15:59):
very curious person.
Talk about how that has reallyimpacted your career path and
where you put it to use.
Zach Demuth (16:07):
Yeah, for sure.
I think again, I know we'vetalked about a lot, but it kind
of journey of getting here tome.
I credit a lot of it with notjust my own curiosity, but
mentors that have pushed me tolook in different places.
I love to learn like when I wasin college, I took extra classes
and things that I had nointerest in doing in my life
just because I wanted thatexposure.
That's now it's, I guess it'snine years ago.
(16:29):
It's a bit scary, but I wentback and got my master's degree.
Not because I thought it wouldnecessarily help me earn more
money, although that would begreat.
But really just because I wantedto learn more, I realized I
didn't have the exposure to realestate.
I spent my career to that point,all in sort of hotel operations
on the management side.
I was always fascinated andconfused to some degree around
(16:50):
how they decide to open hotels.
Where they open them.
And I realized I just had thismassive hole and I could do all
the reading I wanted, but to beable to go back to an
educational institutionsurrounded by experts in the
field, that was my best pathforward.
And so I went back to schoolstrictly for that reason, just
for curiosity, an amazingdecision.
In hindsight, I met someincredible people, talk about
(17:11):
mentorship, networking.
To me, that is the essence ofhospitality.
And I really learned that there.
And then in my career, right?
I think, one of the pieces ofadvice I try to give, again,
students or people that I mentorand early in their career is
it's just because something isthe way it is, doesn't mean it
has to be moving forward.
I think we're often,particularly in big
organizations.
(17:31):
I've worked for two very largeorganizations and Marriott and
JLL.
There's a lot of processes.
A lot of things are done thesame way over and over.
There's some of them for areason, and some of them not.
And I think for me, some of theways I've been able to be
successful in my career is.
And to me that is questioningwhy things are done, that they
have to be done in that way.
And again, applying a curiosityto it.
It doesn't mean you go in andsaying it has to change, but
(17:52):
question, look around, see ifyou can find people.
And again, to me, that'scuriosity.
I always consider myself,somebody actually told me this
word the other day, anintrapreneur.
It's like an entrepreneur, butyeah, I guess it's an accepted
word.
And to me that is curiosity.
If that's a curious person,right?
You, whether you're anentrepreneur, clearly curious,
then in my case, you work for alarge organization, you have to
(18:15):
be curious, you have to want tofind new things, and I'll say
just a last thought is I'vechanged jobs multiple times in
my career, both within the sameorganization and elsewhere.
And one of the impetus is for mewanting, getting to the point
where I think I want to changejobs is if I'm not learning
consistently in that job.
(18:36):
Part of that is on you.
I think.
There's, when you start a newjob, you're going to learn no
matter what, but then tocontinue, you have to find, you
have to be that kind of personthat uncovers new rocks and
tries to ask new questions.
But at some point that is, notevery job, but at some point
that's going to go away.
And so to me, anytime I feellike I'm, I've, my curiosity and
I'm not able to find new thingsto learn.
(18:58):
That's when I take the next stepand try to figure out, is there
another path I can go either inthe organization, outside the
organization, maybe addingadditional responsibilities.
But to me, that's what drivesme.
Some, somebody asked merecently, like what motivates
me?
A lot of things, but curiosityis definitely high on that list.
Rachel Humphrey (19:15):
I like the self awareness that goes along with
that too, to say, I'm not sureI'm following through on the
curiosity I have as far as hasthis role.
Have I taken this role maybe asfar as I can.
Or is there something else out,but I'm actually going to
question you on somethingbecause earlier you said, I am a
very risk averse person.
One thing I've realized aboutmyself is I say that all the
(19:36):
time, but some of the greatestsuccesses I've had in my
personal and professional lifehave been from the biggest risks
that I've taken.
You have switched roles.
You've switched careers in thesense of the focus of your
career.
Many would identify those as bigrisks.
How do you evaluate, especiallyas a risk averse person, how do
you evaluate risk and reallydecide which ones are worth
(19:58):
taking and what you're going topass on?
Zach Demuth (20:00):
That's a good, that's a good point.
I think, yeah, I've said I'mrisk averse for so long that
it's just.
The party line.
Yeah, you're right.
I guess maybe a better way todescribe is I'm very methodical.
I, I can look back.
There are some decisions I wishI would have made.
And I think to myself, thereason I didn't is because I was
fearful, which I equate to risk.
But you're right.
I definitely have made somechanges, whether it was, taking
(20:24):
a year off, essentially, andgoing back to school, giving up
income, potentially.
Negatively impacting my career.
Obviously, I've done some thingspersonally that are risky.
And then yeah moved around whenI was with Marriott I you know
moved geographically multipletimes to places.
I'd never lived before whichWhen I it's funny when I say
that particularly to my wife whoI didn't know at the time She
looks at me like i'm crazy like,how could you move a city?
(20:45):
You've never been to isn't thatso scary and it's funny at the
time.
I didn't think of it that wayBut yeah, that is a huge risk to
some capacity And then obviouslywhen I left Marriott after, more
than 10 years, that wasdefinitely in some ways a risk.
Although I look at it as verycalculated, right?
I went from a very wellrespected organization in
Marriott to a, let's say,equally respected organization
(21:06):
in JLL.
For me, whenever I've madechanges that I guess could be
considered as risky, I alwayslook at what are, very simply
what are the upsides?
And then I guess, what are thepotential risks?
I always have always been guidedby similar principles I just
discussed.
Is it going to be somethingthat's going to allow me to
learn?
That's going to allow me tolearn new things, right?
(21:26):
And part of that is the emphasison you.
You have to take self awareness,self ownership.
Part of it is on the role in theorganization.
And I will say, as I've donemore, either career changes or
role changes or taking differentsteps, I think the work you do
is important, but who you do itwith, I would say is the most
important thing.
Maybe I don't work as many hoursas I did when I was in, 10 years
(21:47):
ago.
I still work a lot of hours andI spent a lot of time with my co
workers, both in person andvirtually.
And so it's really important tomake a decision.
That you are going to enjoy theto some degree the people you're
with and to me that mitigates alot of risk yes, obviously if
you don't like what you're doingYou're you know, you're not
going to enjoy your time But ifyou don't like who you're doing
it with I would say actuallyyou're going to dislike it more
(22:09):
So to me, I would say i'mmethodical and maybe the risks
i've taken are very calculated,but it all comes back to am I
learning?
Obviously at some point in yourcareer there has to be a
monetary component I'm nottrying to dismiss that in any
way And then who is it with andis it an organization that
supports you?
You I mean, I had always saidthat the position I'm in now is
something I would aspire to inyears from now.
(22:29):
So the fact that I'm here ispinches me sometimes.
But yeah, is it an organizationsupports you, your personal
branding, and then you yourselfcan, excel in whatever you
define as excelling.
Rachel Humphrey (22:39):
I think we have a new tagline.
It's gonna be Zach Smith risktaker.
Zach Demuth (22:45):
Yeah, she tells my, to my parents.
Yeah.
My mom's always said I'm a risktaker, even though I define
myself as risk averse.
Rachel Humphrey (22:51):
Interesting.
Interesting.
I want to switch over to worklife harmony for a minute,
because this used to be aquestion I think that was very
traditionally asked of women.
How do you manage both ademanding career and having a
family?
But it really applies in someways to all of us.
I did learn recently that youand I like to vacation or travel
with our families to a similarsame place.
Talk a little bit about, youhave a demanding travel
(23:14):
schedule.
As you mentioned, you work a lotof hours, you have a family.
How do you.
Find time to really focus in onthe things that are important to
you, both on the career frontand on the home front.
And has that evolved over time?
Zach Demuth (23:29):
Yeah, to answer the last part of your question
first, it's definitely evolved,right?
I think the advent or theacceptance really of virtual
work has helped a lot, not justpost COVID.
I think in parts of the hotelindustry, at least the parts I
was in, that was to some degreeaccepted pre COVID, but
obviously it's accelerated.
As you said, I travel a lot.
I think one thing that I learnedearly on is I got to go to some
(23:49):
amazing places, and a lot of myfriends would say, oh, you,
you're, I worked in theCaribbean for a long time, and
Oh, you get to be in theCaribbean.
And not really yes, I get to bethere, but like I'm in a
windowless room or I can, it'sworse if there is a window
because like I'm not outside.
And I was used to say that as ajoke, although partly serious.
And then somebody once said tome is okay, that's all true.
(24:09):
Yes, you are working and.
You're not on the beach, butlike, why don't you take a day
and be on the beach?
Why don't at the time I had agirlfriend, now you're my wife,
my family.
Like, why don't you takeadvantage?
Yes, you're not going todiminish the work you do, but
blend the two things you love.
I joined the hospitalityindustry in some sense, because
I love to travel.
And like I said, at thebeginning, Experience the world
in different ways.
(24:30):
Do that to your capacity, youcan like, we work in an amazing
industry.
And so I will say that'ssomething I've really embraced
over the last five or six years.
And yeah not every trip by anystretch.
But when it's possible, I think.
Work does take me some amazingplaces.
And so to prioritize that, Ialso think, and again, this is
probably not unique to hotels,but work is never done.
(24:51):
Whether it's on your phonewhatever the case might be,
anyone can reach you.
You're always going to moreemails.
My, my wife's mom tragicallypassed away very early last
year.
And she always says she wouldtrade all the meetings that she
went to, she would have tradedall those for another few days
with her mom.
And that to me is like reallyhit home.
And I have some friendssimilarly passed away young.
And so somebody said to me, areyou going to remember this email
(25:14):
in a week?
No, a month.
Definitely not all that stuff.
So to me, I just think you haveto prioritize what's important
and also take advantage of someof the amazing things that this
industry offers.
And particularly if you likethose, and Take the advantage to
the degree that you're able to
Rachel Humphrey (25:30):
wow.
I appreciate that.
That's tremendous advice And i'mreally glad that you shared that
when we talk about Maybe timesthat are changing a little bit
You were talking about a littlebit more of virtual or remote
work some of these other aspectsof post covid One of the things
that i've really noticed iscoming out of covid.
There's a real renewed focus onself care and wellness whether
(25:51):
that is related to a work lifebalance, whether it's related to
other things.
Talk a little bit about yourself care wellness strategies
plan.
Is that again something that'sevolved over time?
Zach Demuth (26:05):
Yeah, for sure.
I think again, travel takes atoll on you.
As you well know you're gettingon a plane, like no matter where
you're going, like it'sexhausting and it takes a toll
on your body and everythingelse.
I think Prioritizing timeindividually is super important.
I'll credit my wife with this.
She meditates almost everymorning.
I definitely don't do it everyday, but the few days a week
(26:27):
that I do it, I find it justreally grounding.
It helps me personally.
And also I think with my work.
So I think, again, I think asI've learned in my career,
you're going to spend so muchtime working, you're going to
spend a lot of time working withother people and I look up to
other people in the way theycarry themselves.
It's obvious, but then Irealized people probably look up
(26:48):
to me.
And so in some ways, the way youdo your work is as important, if
not more important than the workyou do.
And you can only do your workwell, the way you do it.
If you yourself have some levelof groundness, some of self
care.
And so different for everybody,but for me, it's like, whether
it's some form of meditation,whether it's some form of kind
of taking breaks, but it'sreally important recognizing I
(27:09):
look up to so many people are asmuch as I don't really believe
it all the time, recognizingpeople are also.
Looking up to me to somecapacity.
Rachel Humphrey (27:18):
It's so important to hear you talk about
modeling that behavior forothers, because if others see
that you give yourselfpermission to meditate or make a
break or reset or whatever itis, then it grants them maybe
the confidence to do the samething.
Zach, much like every time Icall you for advice and
information, I could talk withyou all day about a million
(27:38):
things, but we are going to runout of time.
So I want to ask two last quickquestions.
Our regular listeners know thatmy favorite question to ask is
our advice to our youngerselves, because I really think
that we're all works inprogress.
And part of that is reflection.
As you sit here today, what doyou tell 21 year old Zach about
either how things will play outfor you over time or something
(28:03):
that may have made your journeya little bit easier for you if
you knew it then?
Zach Demuth (28:08):
Yeah, I think first.
Where you end up and where Iended up, years later is totally
different than when I thought Iwould have ended up at age 21.
So I think the advice to givemyself, it's okay to not know.
I feel like I pressured myself alot, whether it was in college,
post college, earlier in mycareer, to know exactly what I
wanted to do next.
To know the answer to everyquestion in the room, as an
(28:29):
example.
I think, I wish I would havetold myself, it's okay, and in
fact, it's going to end upgreat.
The decisions you make, one wayor the other, are, some are very
challenging, some maybe notwhere you want it to be, but
really challenging.
really positive, but take thepressure off yourself.
And I'll say, I talked to a lotof students who feel like I
asked them what are theyinterested in?
And it's they've rehearsed thisreally well manicured answer.
(28:52):
And I did the same, but it'sokay.
It's okay to not know.
And it's funny thinking aboutit, I'd say I am more, risk
tolerant than I thought, but Ithink there are some decisions
to maybe I could have been evenmore tolerant of risk, right?
So it's okay to not know, andit's okay to try things that
maybe you don't think you like,don't think they'll end up in
the place you want it to.
(29:14):
But, wherever you end up, thatpath seems to have worked out.
Rachel Humphrey (29:19):
I'd be interested in talking to Zach,
food journalist, and seeing whatadvice he would have for me the
next time that I see you.
As we wrap up today in thinkingabout DEI advisors and our motto
of empowering personal success,is there a final nugget of
wisdom that you would share withour listeners?
I
Zach Demuth (29:40):
think it goes back to what I was saying before.
First, be open to possibilities,say yes to opportunities.
You have to put yourself inopportunities way, but you have
to say yes and have a level ofconfidence in what you're doing.
I think, again I struggle withself doubt all the time, as you
mentioned, so many leaders do,but whatever it is you're doing,
you're an expert in that.
You're going to become an expertin that and have that level of
(30:00):
confidence.
But say yes to opportunities,it's okay to not know.
And then question norms.
I think that level of curiosityis just so important.
Rachel Humphrey (30:09):
That's such a great place to wrap up,
especially with the questioningnorms.
Zach, thank you so much.
I know you have a lot of waysyou can spend your day.
I'm super appreciative of youchoosing to spend it.
With us.
But thank you for yourleadership and thank you for the
impact that you've had, as Imentioned a couple of times on
me personally but thank you forjoining us.
Zach Demuth (30:28):
Thank you so much, Rachel.
I really, truly am touched andhonored that you invited me
today
Rachel Humphrey (30:33):
and to our listeners.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
We hope you will visit us at DEIadvisors.
org to hear from nearly 200other industry leaders as they
also share their journeys andthe insights they've learned
along the way.
Thanks for joining us.
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