February 23, 2024 • 32 mins
Steve Anderson literally wrote the book on how to build a dental practice. He has been doing this a long time with over 1,000 dental offices built. Denco Dental Construction works out of Arizona and has an impeccable reputation in the industry. Michael Dinsio and Steve talk about the cost of doing a dental start up. We want you to know where the money is going and how to find someone that will help make your project successful.
You can find Steve and his team online: https://dencodental.com/
I recommend getting a copy of his book.
https://www.dreamdentalpractice.net/dentalease/
0:00 Intro Music
1:41 Introducing Steve Anderson
5:31 Why Are Construction Costs So High?
10:45 Cost of Labor & Lack of Resources
13:27 What's the Deal w/ Sub Contractors
17:31 Can You Trust The Contractor?
20:16 Getting Educated and Ask Questions
23:45 How To Cut Costs During Construction
28:05 Budget and Working w/ Contractor
SHOW HOST:
As always Michael Dinsio your host Michael Dinsio is available to you as a Dental Practice Start Up Consultant. You can reach Michael at: https://www.nxlevelconsultants.com/start-up-practice-consulting.html
You can learn more about what he does by scheduling a One-on-One call as well:
https://calendly.com/nxlevelconsultants-michael/30-minute-new-client
#dentalstartup #dentalpodcast #startupunscripted #dentalconsultant #dentalcoach
Intro Music: Do The Math: by SLPSTRM from Artlist https://artlist.io/artist/503/slpstrm
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:10):
Start Up, Unscripted, the questions you have with the
truths you need to hear.
Michael Dinsio (00:21):
help doctors get into practice the way they want
to get into practice.
Hashtag truth.
That's why we put it out there.What we want to do is we want to
bring truth to the startup game.
Justin Schafer (00:34):
And now your host, Michael Dinsio. Alright,
alright guys,
Michael Dinsio (00:43):
Alright alright, here he is, Steve Anderson, my
guest for today. I'm a big fanof Steve. I've learned a lot
from this guy. I've read hisbook, solid book. And I'm really
excited to have him on todaybecause this guy brings a ton of
knowledge to the game of dentalconstruction. And I can't say
(01:04):
that about every contractor outthere. But I can definitely say
that of Steve. And we're goingto tap into some of his
knowledge today. So Steve,welcome to the show. My friend.
Thank thank you for being partof it.
Steve Anderson (01:13):
Oh, I'm excited to be here. And I really
appreciate the opportunity,Michael?
Michael Dinsio (01:17):
Oh, heck yeah, man. Heck yeah. I mean, this is
our pleasure. So Steve, give mea little bit about Denco. How
you started? You know, how'd youget into the game? You know why
you still love what you do? Justjust kind of get give me Steve
Anderson - 101 here in maybe a3o sec. little elevator pitch, I
(01:40):
suppose?
Steve Anderson (01:41):
Well, I like keeping things simple. The one
thing that is interesting, I wasdriving to work, my 26 years
ago, and I'm gone. I am tired ofwhat I'm doing. And maybe some
of you can relate to this. Feelbeat up. It's all about numbers.
And just things aren't working.And I'm going okay, so what can
(02:04):
I do different? And then my nextthought was, so if I'm going to
do that, who needs help? Going?Wow, Dennis? Just pop no
offense, guys. But Dennis justpopped out there and say, Dennis
need help? Yeah, yeah. Becauseall the experiences I've had up
to that point. And then the nextquestion is, is so how do I
(02:25):
become a rep, you know, a pointof value to them? And how can I
do things differently. And bythe time I got to work, I had my
business plan, understand wehave a big drive of 18 minutes.
Michael Dinsio (02:41):
Did a business plan in 18 minutes. In record
time.
Unknown (02:44):
You know, bottom line was it was just about focusing
on dentist, I let all theresidential go I let all my
other commercial go and I said,Okay, what can I do to make this
happen. And I went to the THEthe Pride Institute, and I did
some other things. And quickly,I realized something that
(03:04):
everybody has their own package.And they try to sell their
wares. And they take this to thedentist and they take the
dentists and cram them intotheir program. But a lot of
times they forget about who thedentist is. And all of a sudden,
the dentists lose theiridentity, they lose how they
want to do things, and they losetheir dream, their dream gets
(03:25):
morphed and shaped differently
Michael Dinsio (03:27):
Into a box in a box. Into the program!
Steve Anderson (03:34):
Into their box. Yeah. And I thought this ain't
right.
Michael Dinsio (03:37):
Yeah, I see. I see that all the time
Steve Anderson (03:39):
So that's where the dream of my first book was,
Blueprints for Success. And itwas about basically a book that
every time I lectured at thedental colleges and that was my
other dream is. I wanted tolecture at both Midwestern AT
Stills locally, to help themmake better choices. And that
was the whole idea. You know,it's simple premise. But it was
(04:01):
interesting of just where do youstart? And how do you take off
from there?
Michael Dinsio (04:04):
And, guys, I want to remind you, we're
talking to a general contractor.I mean, I, I'm saying that I'm
saying that as as not being ajerk, but what I'm saying here
is that Steve actually caresabout your dream, your vision,
your business, you're not gonnahear contractors talk like this,
(04:26):
which is why he's the perfectcandidate for a podcast
interview, but like, the guy istalking about vision right now.
And and he's a generalcontractor, which is super cool,
because you're right, Steve. Iused to be in the wheel as I
call it back in the day, and nowI'm outside of that wheel. And
I'm seeing the wheel being aproblem for Docs because you're
(04:51):
right, everybody fits them intotheir program, quote, unquote,
I'm doing air quotes folks forfor those of you that are not in
on the YouTube channel, but "theprogram". So, Steve, So general
construction, how many projectsyou think you do a year ish, or
over your career, whatever
Steve Anderson (05:11):
We've done over 1000 design, build dental
offices.
Michael Dinsio (05:13):
Design build. Okay, so 1000 design builds. So
folks, if you don't know whatSteve means by design, build,
rewind, and go check out thoseother episodes, we kind of
define that. We don't need toget into that today. But it
might come up because the twothings that I wanted to discuss
today, in no particular order,is why construction costs have
(05:38):
gotten so out of whack. And Iknow that's timestamping
something today. But I'mnoticing that it's it's an
overwhelming, or it's a themethroughout my career just in the
last 15 years that constructionwas X and now it's Y and over
the years, it's just gotten evencrazier, more recently. And and
(06:00):
so I want to discuss, like, Hey,how's this impact the doctor?
And why things are happening theway they are? And then number
two, what are some things we cando, especially with all your
knowledge, as a design buildfirm? What are some things we
can do to make a constructionproject more budget friendly?
(06:21):
Doesn't mean that we we make itlook like a boxed ugly, like you
know, sorry? Comfort Dental, buta Comfort Dental. But there's
absolutely things we can do.Right? Steve, so I want to tap
into that years of experience.So let's hit the first one
inflation. Construction costsare wacky, I don't think... I'll
(06:44):
say it for you, you're notpocketing the difference as the
general contractor. Yourexpenses have gone up, Right? Is
that what's going on?
Steve Anderson (06:52):
Yes. In fact, my CPA, we're just having a Zoom
meeting.
Michael Dinsio (07:00):
Just a minute ago. Yeah.
Steve Anderson (07:01):
So last week, we were talking about Steve, your
I've heard that I actually justheard that the other day in in
your profits down? and I said,Yeah, cutting my profits, I am
cutting, but the costs keepgoing up. And the challenge is,
is yes, my volume went up, andmy profits went down. And
percentage wise, what'sinteresting is in this
marketplace right now, is we'regetting hit from not only the
(07:25):
suppliers, where they have costincreases, and you've all seen
that whether you go to HomeDepot or the grocery store,
wherever you go, your suppliersand vendors. But, everybody has
cost increases. And then on topof that the challenge is is the
labor pool. You know, for years,everybody says you're to their
(07:46):
kids, you need to go to college.Well, unfortunately, that's left
the labor pool out. You know,the trades people. And not only
that, but you know, in Arizona,they had this big thing where a
lot of Hispanics went back toMexico because they got tired
and scared of other things. Andhere, we're at an all time
(08:08):
influx of people like in thisvalley. I'm told it's between
seven and 9000 people a month.
the Phoenix Valley market.
And what's really frustrating isthat has a impact on the
availability of professionaltrades. And you know, finding a
(08:30):
good plumber finding a good ...and if you don't already have
relationships with new plumbersand electricians and stuff, you
can't grow. Because, nobody hastime for you. You have no
relationships. On top of that,the issue is, They're seeing an
opportunity too charge premiumsfor their work. A good plumber
(08:50):
and a good electrician arestarting to charge premiums for
it, because they can get it.Also they're struggling because
they can't keep their manpower,and then they can't add new
manpower to it. And so they canonly handle so much.
Michael Dinsio (09:07):
It's a trickle down. You know, it's interesting
as you were talking, you know,my audience is for the most
part, non owners right now.Okay. And, folks, you don't know
this, but as Steve was talkingabout it, the same exact issues
he's having is what you're gonnahave, you know, the insurance
(09:30):
companies are bringing theprofits down, right. The the
volume is going up sometimes alot of cases with dentistry and
then and then your costs likesupplies and stuff and labor are
going up. So businessesbusiness, right, small
businesses are definitelygetting punched right in the
face. But Steve, you're stilldoing well. I'm doing well.
(09:53):
Small businesses are stillworking. Dentists are still
doing great.
Steve Anderson (09:57):
You know I work a little harder for it, but you
know? But the big issue is islike dentist, you love it. Once
you have that passion, once youhave that thing built within
you, it doesn't matter reallywhat I make, I just get the
opportunity to go work. Yes,you'd like to make money and
like I like to be profitable.You need to be profitable to be
there for your clients and yourpatients in the future. But
(10:20):
really, the idea is, is we'regonna get through this. And it's
a situation where it's a cycle.And if if the government just
let it go, its cycle will beokay.
Michael Dinsio (10:32):
Hey, here we go, Politics. I like it, I like it!
But this is a this is a nopolitics zone. But I like what
you're saying. But if we don'twant to piss everybody off, we
better keep away from from thatconversation.
Steve Anderson (10:43):
I will. I'll step away. lol
Michael Dinsio (10:47):
I do want to hit a little bit on the labor and
the resources, the lack ofresource because I'm finding
this is not nationally, notSteve, and Arizona, this is
nationally, I'm finding that thebigger players like yourself in
Arizona, are more resistant togetting more people involved on
(11:11):
the bidding process. I know youguys don't love bidding, I think
I think a lot of the doctorswant to bid, because they don't
want to feel like they're beingtaken advantage. And the bidding
process does make them feel likethey're getting the right price
that that Steve isn't just kindof, and okay, so whatever bid or
no bed, let's just throw thatout the window. But like, the
(11:33):
idea of not finding enoughplumbers to get into the quote.
So only, like, for example,Steve only asking one guy for
pricing.
Steve Anderson (11:44):
Yeah. So first, let me backtrack just a little
second about personnel. Youknow, personally, as a company,
I've been very blessed with somevery good people, and I pay them
well, but on top of that, whenwe first started having
increases, I gave them acrossthe board a $2 - $3 raise, and I
(12:10):
just did that again! You know,and we just keep bumping their
wages, and not because we thinkthey're exceptionally well, we
do but on top of that, we wantto make sure that they're not
looking around.
Michael Dinsio (12:25):
But you're talking about people that you
you employ at Denco. Yes, so youdo... So folks, I just want you
to hear this, because whenyou're interviewing contractors,
you know, some contractors haveno services in house and they
and they bid all divisions orall the all the things. And some
contractors have things in housetoo, right?
Steve Anderson (12:47):
And a mix of...
Michael Dinsio (12:49):
And a mix of. And so what you just described
as the services that you have inhouse, and you're giving your
folks a bump in rates, which isgreat, right? Because they need
money, and you want to stay ontop of
Steve Anderson (13:01):
Well they gotta survive, and just the cost of
living has gone up tremendously.
Michael Dinsio (13:05):
So just that part, but but just.. And that's
awesome. And by the way, bySteve, having folks in house, he
can probably be a little bitmore competitive, because
there's no markup in thatparticular division. So if it's
framing, for example, Steve canget a little bit more
competitive, the more people hehas on staff. But but I want to
(13:26):
talk more about the subs.Because, again, back to my
original issues, the contractorsjust kind of have their favorite
sub and they just asked that oneplumber to bid the project, just
the one and they're not gettingmultiple. And that seems to be a
(13:47):
thing. Why is that? Give me whyis that?
Steve Anderson (13:51):
Yeah, we also we pick trades for the project. You
know, when we have a verycritical time sensitive project,
there's certain subs that Iwouldn't even include and it
just might be one plumber, oneelectrician, one mechanical. I
know because of my experienceand the challenges I have that
(14:12):
we repeatedly run into issueswhere there's nonperformance and
they have excuses not to showup. Or, oh I forgot to order, or
I didn't get the spec in and allsudden they show up of material
that we didn't approve and justlots of issues. And so you want
performance. And so that's wherewe go to people that we know
(14:32):
that can perform and do well.
Michael Dinsio (14:34):
Yeah, yeah. And then back to there aren't enough
plumbers. So if there wereenough plumbers who knew dental
and could do a good job, thenyou'd be okay with bringing in
multiple people, right? So itsounds like in some situations,
you've got one group that does afantastic job that always
(14:57):
performs and then you've gotmaybe to others that are just
not just not getting the jobdone.
Steve Anderson (15:04):
Well we have the ABCs, we have the extremely good
ones that we can always dependon. And sometimes they get a
little attitude, but we, youknow,
Michael Dinsio (15:13):
You deal with it, lol!
Steve Anderson (15:14):
They still do the excellent job. And the issue
is, is, then we have the othergroup that they're good. And but
they're not excellent, they'regood. And they'll get things
done. And we still get thingsdone in a timely fashion. And
then there's the C group wherethey might be a good price
point. But, man, they're hell onwheels from the standpoint of
(15:37):
they just mess up with aschedule and constantly
rescheduling and doing things.
Michael Dinsio (15:41):
And who hears about that? You do! When the
doctor is mad because you're noton track, you're the one thats
on the line.
Steve Anderson (15:46):
In my mind schedule is the most important
thing to me, because especiallywhen dentists want to do a
remodel, what are theyinterested in? As few down days
as they possibly can, and theywant to make sure that it gets
delivered accordingly. Andthat's one thing we're known
for, is be able to deliver whatwe promise.
Michael Dinsio (16:04):
Yeah, folks, I hope you're appreciating this
conversation because they arebusiness is too. They are, the
contractors and they are they'regetting hit from all angles.
You're coming at them fortimeline, you're also going to
hit them up for quality a punchlist at the end of the project.
If it's not good, it's all onthe contractor shoulders. And so
(16:26):
by you wanting it all, and I'mfinding that a lot of my clients
want at all, they want thecheapest, they want it to be the
fastest, they want it to be thebest quality well, okay, I don't
know if that even exists.
Steve Anderson (16:41):
I just met a client yesterday that he's
having me finish some thingsbecause he said I can't put up
with this guy anymore. And he'sbeen on the project 17 months.
It was supposed to be a sixmonth design build. And after
all that, he's saying, I'm toldI'm gonna have a permit. I've
(17:03):
heard this for the last threemonths, I need a result a
seeable, I want to be able to,you know, go to work. So we're
gonna go in and do someremodeling on a project that is
done. Just because he doesn't
Michael Dinsio (17:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, do you see? Do you
have the conversation with theclient? And say, hey, look, I
can get this price down. But letme let me tell you what's going
to happen. What's going tohappen is you're going to be two
months late, and that can't comeback on me.
Steve Anderson (17:39):
You know, and, and even before that is, you
know, people, I would sayprobably 90% of our clients are,
we're the only person that theycome to, and get a quote from.
And I say, why is that? Well,what's interesting, it's no
different than I found in what Iteach at the schools is, you
(18:00):
know, if you can trust someone.You know, the bottom line is,
you know, in our book, we talkabout how you can tell, they're
trustworthy, and you want to doyour due diligence. You know,
there's such a thing as earnedtrust, versus just blind trust.
But with earn trust, and youhave that ability to perform.
(18:24):
You want to go on seek, whereveryou are in the country, do your
interviews and spend your timefinding out is it someone I can
relate to? You know, littlethings, you know, they say, I'm
going get the quote to you in acouple of days. And three weeks
later, you get it... Is that somany consider? You know there's
(18:46):
telltale signs that you cantell, you know, you just got
done pouring your heart out, andthe next thing they're doing,
when you're done talking,they're talking about something
totally different. Are theylistening to you?
Michael Dinsio (18:56):
Yeah. That's a good one.
Steve Anderson (18:58):
You know, or you just, you just got, I just had
an architect. I met with aclient not too long ago, and he
had a full set of drawings andplans in hand and said, Steve,
let's go to work.
Michael Dinsio (19:09):
Okay.
Steve Anderson (19:10):
And I said, let's set it aside and talk a
minute. And that's the thingthat gets missed. Is someone
asking you questions, and I'mlooking at his plans, and I'm
looking at him and said, youjust got done telling me that
the guy that you're hiring is100 pounds bigger than you and
you're already I bet you're tootight in the operatories. You
said, I had a specialist 10years ago designed it for me and
(19:33):
I hate the damn thing. Theoperatories suck, and I said do
you know that all your new sixoperatories are exactly the
same?
Michael Dinsio (19:41):
hahah yeah
Steve Anderson (19:44):
And I said, you have a six foot hallway out in
the hallway that we could moveback a foot and a half and you'd
have all the room you want theopportunities. inI seen his
mouth drop and he says you coulddo that? But everyone listening,
just keep in mind that what'smissing right now.. Is just find
that trusted professional thatyou can count on to ask those
(20:07):
extra questions and look comealongside you. And it's not
about trying to sell yousomething, it's about giving you
good advice.
But Steve, but Steve, I worknationwide with hundreds of,
quote unquote, great folks likeyou right? Across the country.
(20:28):
And I'm going to tell you rightnow, people aren't asking enough
questions like you, like youare. So my advice on top of that
advice is not only just get goodpeople that are asking good
questions and listening. Myadvice is, take ownership of the
project. And, you ask morequestions. You dig in, you
(20:52):
understand the process. Becauseif you back to the blind trust,
if you're blindly trusting yourteam, who is the man, the woman
who gets the job done in thatparticular market. They're still
back to what we were saying inthe beginning the program,
quote, unquote. That everybodyis fitting you in and that's how
(21:13):
you get a small operatory versusjust extending it a foot. Which
is no problem as long as it'sADA compliant, and get a
wheelchair down. Right? So Imean, of course, you can do it!
But you just got to ask thequestions.
But the biggest thing, Michael,that I see repeatedly as the
doctors don't know whatquestions to ask.
Michael Dinsio (21:32):
Yeah, that's, that's true. Well, that's what I
Steve Anderson (21:35):
But, there is a risk!
come in for. But hey, this isn'tabout me. This isn't about me.
Michael Dinsio (21:38):
I'm gonna go there. I'm gonna go there.
This is about you. But that'sthat's exactly right. They don't
Don't. Even this podcast! Eventhis podcast! I mean, Steve and
know what questions to ask.However, I will say that the
market is changing in that freeinformation is very accessible.
There are a lot of good thingsto learn. But there's...
(22:04):
I are trusted advisors, we careabout our clients. But Steve's
advice for client A, might notbe for client B, and client B
might not be for C. There is noprogram with Steve, I bet, or
with me for that matter. So eventhe information that you're
(22:25):
hearing on my podcast, or thisepisode might not be perfect for
you.
Steve Anderson (22:31):
That's right. The little thing that gets
missed is when I talk tostudents, and the big thing I
say is look around the room. Areyou all different? You bet you
are.
Michael Dinsio (22:42):
Yeah, heck yeah.
Steve Anderson (22:43):
And the biggest, biggest single thing that gets
missed in the programs thatpeople put out there is they
forget the identity of thedentist. Yes. And the one thing
is, you want people that arejump on board with you and help
you to the process where they'relooking out for your best
(23:03):
interest. So they're coming upto you and giving you great
ideas and options and ideas.Suggestions. And that's what
Michael Dinsio (23:11):
That's right. That's right. All right. Let's
you're looking for.
get back on construction,because that's what you know,
most best i love i i love havingconversations with Steve because
it never turns intoconstruction. It turns into just
good business conversations. ButSteve knows a lot about
construction. So we talked aboutinflation. We talked about the
crunch word that thatcontractors have, where there's
(23:34):
timelines and profitability andinflationary expenses, like
labor and, and lumber and allthe things. Steve, let's talk
about things that we can do tominimize the costs the all what
can we do to offset what we justtalked about in the beginning of
(23:55):
the program, labor, all thethings are up. What are some
things that we can do to lowerthe cost and construction?
Because construction isliterally like 60% or 70% of the
total project budget. So if wecould focus on construction and
Value Engineering and thingsthings that you know that I
(24:15):
don't know that the doctorsdon't know, if we could just
save 10% or something in yourdepartment, that's big dollars.
So what are some of thosethings?
Steve Anderson (24:23):
First start with your team. You know, once you
find that trusted person, askhim for options because your
situation is going to be uniquein that fact alone. So start
with your architect, you know,sometimes they they create a
situation where it's overdesigned, and so by going to
your contractor..., simple thingthat I do is I always do a
(24:48):
budget when I first get a planand a preliminary floor plan and
then I do a budget when I getthe final plans back. And then
when I get my numbers in, I'mgoing wow, electricals really
high here and it's a quick catchreally realize that and hey, you
know, there's some optionallighting availble. Sometimes
electricians come up with someridiculous lighting packages
(25:09):
that you can save thousand, tensof thousands of dollars just on
a package. The other issue is,is going into your contractor
and just ask him for othersuggestions as you design the
project. Another thing to keepin mind is, if there's a
designer involved one thing thatwe know about designers, Now, I
(25:30):
gonna be crass on this is...
Michael Dinsio (25:32):
Go do it, that's the kind of program this is go!
Steve Anderson (25:33):
Okay. It's like herding kittens, herding cats.
The one thing that we know aboutthese cats that are running
around with these great ideas isusually they have no limit.
Yeah, and so I I've had so manydesigners over the year, do a
little smoke screens, and oh,everything will be fine. And
everything will be in thebudget, and the last minute that
(25:56):
goes its way over budget andcan't get it in. And so that's
where you need your team. That'swhere we talk about is find that
trusted person to really helpedyou oversee the whole project,
and then also help you withthose little things. Then you
get from your contractor andyour trusted advisor to help you
(26:16):
look at things that also can beadded later, you might have some
great design features, and I'mnot knocking designers, because
there's a great place for them.
Michael Dinsio (26:27):
Absolutely. Yeah,
Steve Anderson (26:28):
But understand what's really important is
understanding that there's abudget and understanding that we
need to get within it. And bydoing that, as sometimes it's
simply taking this beautifulitem/object out. Yeah. And you
can still build the room and addwhether it's a water feature,
(26:48):
whether it's a
No not for start ups. No waterfeatures for start ups.
I agree with you, but whateverit might be, but you know,
whether it's a special woodwall, or whether it's, it's a
special ceiling, or somethingthat can be added.
Michael Dinsio (27:01):
Alrght so, Steve, to that point. I, love
that, folks, I just want you todigest this for a second. So
Steve suggesting that youpartner with your contractor? It
doesn't have to be so adversary.I mean, I get that in the
beginning, you have to earntrust, like Steve said. But at
(27:26):
some point, you have to trustthe partner. Okay, if I could
say this in a different way.
Steve Anderson (27:33):
Well let say this... let me give you an
example. I had a doctor that Idid a class at the school and he
took my book, and he, and he wasgetting ready to do his office.
And we gave him a budget and andthen we came back with a final
price. And there was some thingsthat he added. And so he got a
designer involved. And he said,Steve, you know, I went through
(27:55):
and, you know, overall, I'm 15%high on my budget. He said,
Steve, we need to come down. Andwhat can we do? And I am going
High Five! You know, he got it.He understood, that there's a
budget. It's not there to justlook at and say I can't do
anything with a budget issomething in which you work
(28:16):
towards keeping that?
Michael Dinsio (28:18):
That's right. Once you do commit to your
partners, the best person thebest partner, to your project is
going to be with your contractorto try to find opportunities to
cut costs. But and they won't,they won't usually give you some
of them will... But they usuallywon't let you tap into their
knowledge until they're on yourteam. It's like giving free
(28:42):
advice. And then you don't pickthem and you go with another
contractor after this contractorbusted their ass and can get you
all these $30,000 Savings ofideas and then you just walk
over to the other contract.That's not cool. So I always
talk about like, You got to findyour partner. They do need to
(29:02):
earn your trust. But you'reright, the architects and space
planners, they... When I was abanker Steve, we got three
minutes, so just hang tight.When I was a banker. Do you know
how many calls I got from thespace planner and architects
Thoughts about that?
about budget? Is like zero, likemaybe one or two in however many
(29:23):
years I was a banker. Do youknow how many calls I got from
the contractor? About budget,now? I know what you're thinking
audience you're like, Oh, thoseguys are trying to figure out my
budget so they can max it out?No, they're trying to make sure
that it works because they carenow. Sure. Again, you know, the
(29:44):
audience Steve is probablythinking like, well, they're
asking for the budget so thatthey can max it out and and pad
their pockets and sure therecould be some folks out there
Steve Anderson (29:54):
And also asking whether there is a budget, you
that are doing that. But thewhole point is, if you're not
asking about budget, then areyou really a partner to the
project? I mean, you got tothink about the other way too.
Sure, there could be some badguys out there. But if someone
isn't asking about budget, thenthen are they really spending
(30:16):
your money wisely? I don't know.I don't know.
know, and some people just say,Oh, it'll just work and, and
there's always, I have a clientthat I did five offices for
we're about to do is six, and hegoes, I've got it all covered,
(30:38):
and we're fine. And I said, toywith me. And we went through a
budget form that I have, and Isaid, let's just go through
this. And we did it and came upwith a number and I said, so
what were you expecting? He saysabout $150,000 less. It wasn't
just construction, though. Itwas talking about equipment.
(31:00):
We're talking about all thesethings. He's going oh, crap! So
it's important to look at.
Michael Dinsio (31:07):
Well Steve, sorry, to to speed that last
segment up. We're out of time.I, so appreciate your knowledge.
Folks, if you haven't gottenSteve's book, check it out.
Steve's a fantastic resource foryou. Denco is a fantastic
company to partner with. I knowthat most of my audience is
(31:28):
national. Steve primarily worksin Arizona. So if you're an
Arizona Doc, you need to reachout to Steve. But thank you,
sir, any last bit before we getcut off here? Any last? Last
thing?
Steve Anderson (31:42):
Just follow your passion. And be true to
yourself.
Start Up, Unscripted, the questions you have with the
truths you need to hear.
Michael Dinsio (00:21):
help doctors get into practice the way they want
to get into practice.
Hashtag truth.
That's why we put it out there.What we want to do is we want to
bring truth to the startup game.
Justin Schafer (00:34):
And now your host, Michael Dinsio. Alright,
alright guys,
Michael Dinsio (00:43):
Alright alright, here he is, Steve Anderson, my
guest for today. I'm a big fanof Steve. I've learned a lot
from this guy. I've read hisbook, solid book. And I'm really
excited to have him on todaybecause this guy brings a ton of
knowledge to the game of dentalconstruction. And I can't say
(01:04):
that about every contractor outthere. But I can definitely say
that of Steve. And we're goingto tap into some of his
knowledge today. So Steve,welcome to the show. My friend.
Thank thank you for being partof it.
Steve Anderson (01:13):
Oh, I'm excited to be here. And I really
appreciate the opportunity,Michael?
Michael Dinsio (01:17):
Oh, heck yeah, man. Heck yeah. I mean, this is
our pleasure. So Steve, give mea little bit about Denco. How
you started? You know, how'd youget into the game? You know why
you still love what you do? Justjust kind of get give me Steve
Anderson - 101 here in maybe a3o sec. little elevator pitch, I
(01:40):
suppose?
Steve Anderson (01:41):
Well, I like keeping things simple. The one
thing that is interesting, I wasdriving to work, my 26 years
ago, and I'm gone. I am tired ofwhat I'm doing. And maybe some
of you can relate to this. Feelbeat up. It's all about numbers.
And just things aren't working.And I'm going okay, so what can
(02:04):
I do different? And then my nextthought was, so if I'm going to
do that, who needs help? Going?Wow, Dennis? Just pop no
offense, guys. But Dennis justpopped out there and say, Dennis
need help? Yeah, yeah. Becauseall the experiences I've had up
to that point. And then the nextquestion is, is so how do I
(02:25):
become a rep, you know, a pointof value to them? And how can I
do things differently. And bythe time I got to work, I had my
business plan, understand wehave a big drive of 18 minutes.
Michael Dinsio (02:41):
Did a business plan in 18 minutes. In record
time.
Unknown (02:44):
You know, bottom line was it was just about focusing
on dentist, I let all theresidential go I let all my
other commercial go and I said,Okay, what can I do to make this
happen. And I went to the THEthe Pride Institute, and I did
some other things. And quickly,I realized something that
(03:04):
everybody has their own package.And they try to sell their
wares. And they take this to thedentist and they take the
dentists and cram them intotheir program. But a lot of
times they forget about who thedentist is. And all of a sudden,
the dentists lose theiridentity, they lose how they
want to do things, and they losetheir dream, their dream gets
(03:25):
morphed and shaped differently
Michael Dinsio (03:27):
Into a box in a box. Into the program!
Steve Anderson (03:34):
Into their box. Yeah. And I thought this ain't
right.
Michael Dinsio (03:37):
Yeah, I see. I see that all the time
Steve Anderson (03:39):
So that's where the dream of my first book was,
Blueprints for Success. And itwas about basically a book that
every time I lectured at thedental colleges and that was my
other dream is. I wanted tolecture at both Midwestern AT
Stills locally, to help themmake better choices. And that
was the whole idea. You know,it's simple premise. But it was
(04:01):
interesting of just where do youstart? And how do you take off
from there?
Michael Dinsio (04:04):
And, guys, I want to remind you, we're
talking to a general contractor.I mean, I, I'm saying that I'm
saying that as as not being ajerk, but what I'm saying here
is that Steve actually caresabout your dream, your vision,
your business, you're not gonnahear contractors talk like this,
(04:26):
which is why he's the perfectcandidate for a podcast
interview, but like, the guy istalking about vision right now.
And and he's a generalcontractor, which is super cool,
because you're right, Steve. Iused to be in the wheel as I
call it back in the day, and nowI'm outside of that wheel. And
I'm seeing the wheel being aproblem for Docs because you're
(04:51):
right, everybody fits them intotheir program, quote, unquote,
I'm doing air quotes folks forfor those of you that are not in
on the YouTube channel, but "theprogram". So, Steve, So general
construction, how many projectsyou think you do a year ish, or
over your career, whatever
Steve Anderson (05:11):
We've done over 1000 design, build dental
offices.
Michael Dinsio (05:13):
Design build. Okay, so 1000 design builds. So
folks, if you don't know whatSteve means by design, build,
rewind, and go check out thoseother episodes, we kind of
define that. We don't need toget into that today. But it
might come up because the twothings that I wanted to discuss
today, in no particular order,is why construction costs have
(05:38):
gotten so out of whack. And Iknow that's timestamping
something today. But I'mnoticing that it's it's an
overwhelming, or it's a themethroughout my career just in the
last 15 years that constructionwas X and now it's Y and over
the years, it's just gotten evencrazier, more recently. And and
(06:00):
so I want to discuss, like, Hey,how's this impact the doctor?
And why things are happening theway they are? And then number
two, what are some things we cando, especially with all your
knowledge, as a design buildfirm? What are some things we
can do to make a constructionproject more budget friendly?
(06:21):
Doesn't mean that we we make itlook like a boxed ugly, like you
know, sorry? Comfort Dental, buta Comfort Dental. But there's
absolutely things we can do.Right? Steve, so I want to tap
into that years of experience.So let's hit the first one
inflation. Construction costsare wacky, I don't think... I'll
(06:44):
say it for you, you're notpocketing the difference as the
general contractor. Yourexpenses have gone up, Right? Is
that what's going on?
Steve Anderson (06:52):
Yes. In fact, my CPA, we're just having a Zoom
meeting.
Michael Dinsio (07:00):
Just a minute ago. Yeah.
Steve Anderson (07:01):
So last week, we were talking about Steve, your
I've heard that I actually justheard that the other day in in
your profits down? and I said,Yeah, cutting my profits, I am
cutting, but the costs keepgoing up. And the challenge is,
is yes, my volume went up, andmy profits went down. And
percentage wise, what'sinteresting is in this
marketplace right now, is we'regetting hit from not only the
(07:25):
suppliers, where they have costincreases, and you've all seen
that whether you go to HomeDepot or the grocery store,
wherever you go, your suppliersand vendors. But, everybody has
cost increases. And then on topof that the challenge is is the
labor pool. You know, for years,everybody says you're to their
(07:46):
kids, you need to go to college.Well, unfortunately, that's left
the labor pool out. You know,the trades people. And not only
that, but you know, in Arizona,they had this big thing where a
lot of Hispanics went back toMexico because they got tired
and scared of other things. Andhere, we're at an all time
(08:08):
influx of people like in thisvalley. I'm told it's between
seven and 9000 people a month.
the Phoenix Valley market.
And what's really frustrating isthat has a impact on the
availability of professionaltrades. And you know, finding a
(08:30):
good plumber finding a good ...and if you don't already have
relationships with new plumbersand electricians and stuff, you
can't grow. Because, nobody hastime for you. You have no
relationships. On top of that,the issue is, They're seeing an
opportunity too charge premiumsfor their work. A good plumber
(08:50):
and a good electrician arestarting to charge premiums for
it, because they can get it.Also they're struggling because
they can't keep their manpower,and then they can't add new
manpower to it. And so they canonly handle so much.
Michael Dinsio (09:07):
It's a trickle down. You know, it's interesting
as you were talking, you know,my audience is for the most
part, non owners right now.Okay. And, folks, you don't know
this, but as Steve was talkingabout it, the same exact issues
he's having is what you're gonnahave, you know, the insurance
(09:30):
companies are bringing theprofits down, right. The the
volume is going up sometimes alot of cases with dentistry and
then and then your costs likesupplies and stuff and labor are
going up. So businessesbusiness, right, small
businesses are definitelygetting punched right in the
face. But Steve, you're stilldoing well. I'm doing well.
(09:53):
Small businesses are stillworking. Dentists are still
doing great.
Steve Anderson (09:57):
You know I work a little harder for it, but you
know? But the big issue is islike dentist, you love it. Once
you have that passion, once youhave that thing built within
you, it doesn't matter reallywhat I make, I just get the
opportunity to go work. Yes,you'd like to make money and
like I like to be profitable.You need to be profitable to be
there for your clients and yourpatients in the future. But
(10:20):
really, the idea is, is we'regonna get through this. And it's
a situation where it's a cycle.And if if the government just
let it go, its cycle will beokay.
Michael Dinsio (10:32):
Hey, here we go, Politics. I like it, I like it!
But this is a this is a nopolitics zone. But I like what
you're saying. But if we don'twant to piss everybody off, we
better keep away from from thatconversation.
Steve Anderson (10:43):
I will. I'll step away. lol
Michael Dinsio (10:47):
I do want to hit a little bit on the labor and
the resources, the lack ofresource because I'm finding
this is not nationally, notSteve, and Arizona, this is
nationally, I'm finding that thebigger players like yourself in
Arizona, are more resistant togetting more people involved on
(11:11):
the bidding process. I know youguys don't love bidding, I think
I think a lot of the doctorswant to bid, because they don't
want to feel like they're beingtaken advantage. And the bidding
process does make them feel likethey're getting the right price
that that Steve isn't just kindof, and okay, so whatever bid or
no bed, let's just throw thatout the window. But like, the
(11:33):
idea of not finding enoughplumbers to get into the quote.
So only, like, for example,Steve only asking one guy for
pricing.
Steve Anderson (11:44):
Yeah. So first, let me backtrack just a little
second about personnel. Youknow, personally, as a company,
I've been very blessed with somevery good people, and I pay them
well, but on top of that, whenwe first started having
increases, I gave them acrossthe board a $2 - $3 raise, and I
(12:10):
just did that again! You know,and we just keep bumping their
wages, and not because we thinkthey're exceptionally well, we
do but on top of that, we wantto make sure that they're not
looking around.
Michael Dinsio (12:25):
But you're talking about people that you
you employ at Denco. Yes, so youdo... So folks, I just want you
to hear this, because whenyou're interviewing contractors,
you know, some contractors haveno services in house and they
and they bid all divisions orall the all the things. And some
contractors have things in housetoo, right?
Steve Anderson (12:47):
And a mix of...
Michael Dinsio (12:49):
And a mix of. And so what you just described
as the services that you have inhouse, and you're giving your
folks a bump in rates, which isgreat, right? Because they need
money, and you want to stay ontop of
Steve Anderson (13:01):
Well they gotta survive, and just the cost of
living has gone up tremendously.
Michael Dinsio (13:05):
So just that part, but but just.. And that's
awesome. And by the way, bySteve, having folks in house, he
can probably be a little bitmore competitive, because
there's no markup in thatparticular division. So if it's
framing, for example, Steve canget a little bit more
competitive, the more people hehas on staff. But but I want to
(13:26):
talk more about the subs.Because, again, back to my
original issues, the contractorsjust kind of have their favorite
sub and they just asked that oneplumber to bid the project, just
the one and they're not gettingmultiple. And that seems to be a
(13:47):
thing. Why is that? Give me whyis that?
Steve Anderson (13:51):
Yeah, we also we pick trades for the project. You
know, when we have a verycritical time sensitive project,
there's certain subs that Iwouldn't even include and it
just might be one plumber, oneelectrician, one mechanical. I
know because of my experienceand the challenges I have that
(14:12):
we repeatedly run into issueswhere there's nonperformance and
they have excuses not to showup. Or, oh I forgot to order, or
I didn't get the spec in and allsudden they show up of material
that we didn't approve and justlots of issues. And so you want
performance. And so that's wherewe go to people that we know
(14:32):
that can perform and do well.
Michael Dinsio (14:34):
Yeah, yeah. And then back to there aren't enough
plumbers. So if there wereenough plumbers who knew dental
and could do a good job, thenyou'd be okay with bringing in
multiple people, right? So itsounds like in some situations,
you've got one group that does afantastic job that always
(14:57):
performs and then you've gotmaybe to others that are just
not just not getting the jobdone.
Steve Anderson (15:04):
Well we have the ABCs, we have the extremely good
ones that we can always dependon. And sometimes they get a
little attitude, but we, youknow,
Michael Dinsio (15:13):
You deal with it, lol!
Steve Anderson (15:14):
They still do the excellent job. And the issue
is, is, then we have the othergroup that they're good. And but
they're not excellent, they'regood. And they'll get things
done. And we still get thingsdone in a timely fashion. And
then there's the C group wherethey might be a good price
point. But, man, they're hell onwheels from the standpoint of
(15:37):
they just mess up with aschedule and constantly
rescheduling and doing things.
Michael Dinsio (15:41):
And who hears about that? You do! When the
doctor is mad because you're noton track, you're the one thats
on the line.
Steve Anderson (15:46):
In my mind schedule is the most important
thing to me, because especiallywhen dentists want to do a
remodel, what are theyinterested in? As few down days
as they possibly can, and theywant to make sure that it gets
delivered accordingly. Andthat's one thing we're known
for, is be able to deliver whatwe promise.
Michael Dinsio (16:04):
Yeah, folks, I hope you're appreciating this
conversation because they arebusiness is too. They are, the
contractors and they are they'regetting hit from all angles.
You're coming at them fortimeline, you're also going to
hit them up for quality a punchlist at the end of the project.
If it's not good, it's all onthe contractor shoulders. And so
(16:26):
by you wanting it all, and I'mfinding that a lot of my clients
want at all, they want thecheapest, they want it to be the
fastest, they want it to be thebest quality well, okay, I don't
know if that even exists.
Steve Anderson (16:41):
I just met a client yesterday that he's
having me finish some thingsbecause he said I can't put up
with this guy anymore. And he'sbeen on the project 17 months.
It was supposed to be a sixmonth design build. And after
all that, he's saying, I'm toldI'm gonna have a permit. I've
(17:03):
heard this for the last threemonths, I need a result a
seeable, I want to be able to,you know, go to work. So we're
gonna go in and do someremodeling on a project that is
done. Just because he doesn't
Michael Dinsio (17:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, do you see? Do you
have the conversation with theclient? And say, hey, look, I
can get this price down. But letme let me tell you what's going
to happen. What's going tohappen is you're going to be two
months late, and that can't comeback on me.
Steve Anderson (17:39):
You know, and, and even before that is, you
know, people, I would sayprobably 90% of our clients are,
we're the only person that theycome to, and get a quote from.
And I say, why is that? Well,what's interesting, it's no
different than I found in what Iteach at the schools is, you
(18:00):
know, if you can trust someone.You know, the bottom line is,
you know, in our book, we talkabout how you can tell, they're
trustworthy, and you want to doyour due diligence. You know,
there's such a thing as earnedtrust, versus just blind trust.
But with earn trust, and youhave that ability to perform.
(18:24):
You want to go on seek, whereveryou are in the country, do your
interviews and spend your timefinding out is it someone I can
relate to? You know, littlethings, you know, they say, I'm
going get the quote to you in acouple of days. And three weeks
later, you get it... Is that somany consider? You know there's
(18:46):
telltale signs that you cantell, you know, you just got
done pouring your heart out, andthe next thing they're doing,
when you're done talking,they're talking about something
totally different. Are theylistening to you?
Michael Dinsio (18:56):
Yeah. That's a good one.
Steve Anderson (18:58):
You know, or you just, you just got, I just had
an architect. I met with aclient not too long ago, and he
had a full set of drawings andplans in hand and said, Steve,
let's go to work.
Michael Dinsio (19:09):
Okay.
Steve Anderson (19:10):
And I said, let's set it aside and talk a
minute. And that's the thingthat gets missed. Is someone
asking you questions, and I'mlooking at his plans, and I'm
looking at him and said, youjust got done telling me that
the guy that you're hiring is100 pounds bigger than you and
you're already I bet you're tootight in the operatories. You
said, I had a specialist 10years ago designed it for me and
(19:33):
I hate the damn thing. Theoperatories suck, and I said do
you know that all your new sixoperatories are exactly the
same?
Michael Dinsio (19:41):
hahah yeah
Steve Anderson (19:44):
And I said, you have a six foot hallway out in
the hallway that we could moveback a foot and a half and you'd
have all the room you want theopportunities. inI seen his
mouth drop and he says you coulddo that? But everyone listening,
just keep in mind that what'smissing right now.. Is just find
that trusted professional thatyou can count on to ask those
(20:07):
extra questions and look comealongside you. And it's not
about trying to sell yousomething, it's about giving you
good advice.
But Steve, but Steve, I worknationwide with hundreds of,
quote unquote, great folks likeyou right? Across the country.
(20:28):
And I'm going to tell you rightnow, people aren't asking enough
questions like you, like youare. So my advice on top of that
advice is not only just get goodpeople that are asking good
questions and listening. Myadvice is, take ownership of the
project. And, you ask morequestions. You dig in, you
(20:52):
understand the process. Becauseif you back to the blind trust,
if you're blindly trusting yourteam, who is the man, the woman
who gets the job done in thatparticular market. They're still
back to what we were saying inthe beginning the program,
quote, unquote. That everybodyis fitting you in and that's how
(21:13):
you get a small operatory versusjust extending it a foot. Which
is no problem as long as it'sADA compliant, and get a
wheelchair down. Right? So Imean, of course, you can do it!
But you just got to ask thequestions.
But the biggest thing, Michael,that I see repeatedly as the
doctors don't know whatquestions to ask.
Michael Dinsio (21:32):
Yeah, that's, that's true. Well, that's what I
Steve Anderson (21:35):
But, there is a risk!
come in for. But hey, this isn'tabout me. This isn't about me.
Michael Dinsio (21:38):
I'm gonna go there. I'm gonna go there.
This is about you. But that'sthat's exactly right. They don't
Don't. Even this podcast! Eventhis podcast! I mean, Steve and
know what questions to ask.However, I will say that the
market is changing in that freeinformation is very accessible.
There are a lot of good thingsto learn. But there's...
(22:04):
I are trusted advisors, we careabout our clients. But Steve's
advice for client A, might notbe for client B, and client B
might not be for C. There is noprogram with Steve, I bet, or
with me for that matter. So eventhe information that you're
(22:25):
hearing on my podcast, or thisepisode might not be perfect for
you.
Steve Anderson (22:31):
That's right. The little thing that gets
missed is when I talk tostudents, and the big thing I
say is look around the room. Areyou all different? You bet you
are.
Michael Dinsio (22:42):
Yeah, heck yeah.
Steve Anderson (22:43):
And the biggest, biggest single thing that gets
missed in the programs thatpeople put out there is they
forget the identity of thedentist. Yes. And the one thing
is, you want people that arejump on board with you and help
you to the process where they'relooking out for your best
(23:03):
interest. So they're coming upto you and giving you great
ideas and options and ideas.Suggestions. And that's what
Michael Dinsio (23:11):
That's right. That's right. All right. Let's
you're looking for.
get back on construction,because that's what you know,
most best i love i i love havingconversations with Steve because
it never turns intoconstruction. It turns into just
good business conversations. ButSteve knows a lot about
construction. So we talked aboutinflation. We talked about the
crunch word that thatcontractors have, where there's
(23:34):
timelines and profitability andinflationary expenses, like
labor and, and lumber and allthe things. Steve, let's talk
about things that we can do tominimize the costs the all what
can we do to offset what we justtalked about in the beginning of
(23:55):
the program, labor, all thethings are up. What are some
things that we can do to lowerthe cost and construction?
Because construction isliterally like 60% or 70% of the
total project budget. So if wecould focus on construction and
Value Engineering and thingsthings that you know that I
(24:15):
don't know that the doctorsdon't know, if we could just
save 10% or something in yourdepartment, that's big dollars.
So what are some of thosethings?
Steve Anderson (24:23):
First start with your team. You know, once you
find that trusted person, askhim for options because your
situation is going to be uniquein that fact alone. So start
with your architect, you know,sometimes they they create a
situation where it's overdesigned, and so by going to
your contractor..., simple thingthat I do is I always do a
(24:48):
budget when I first get a planand a preliminary floor plan and
then I do a budget when I getthe final plans back. And then
when I get my numbers in, I'mgoing wow, electricals really
high here and it's a quick catchreally realize that and hey, you
know, there's some optionallighting availble. Sometimes
electricians come up with someridiculous lighting packages
(25:09):
that you can save thousand, tensof thousands of dollars just on
a package. The other issue is,is going into your contractor
and just ask him for othersuggestions as you design the
project. Another thing to keepin mind is, if there's a
designer involved one thing thatwe know about designers, Now, I
(25:30):
gonna be crass on this is...
Michael Dinsio (25:32):
Go do it, that's the kind of program this is go!
Steve Anderson (25:33):
Okay. It's like herding kittens, herding cats.
The one thing that we know aboutthese cats that are running
around with these great ideas isusually they have no limit.
Yeah, and so I I've had so manydesigners over the year, do a
little smoke screens, and oh,everything will be fine. And
everything will be in thebudget, and the last minute that
(25:56):
goes its way over budget andcan't get it in. And so that's
where you need your team. That'swhere we talk about is find that
trusted person to really helpedyou oversee the whole project,
and then also help you withthose little things. Then you
get from your contractor andyour trusted advisor to help you
(26:16):
look at things that also can beadded later, you might have some
great design features, and I'mnot knocking designers, because
there's a great place for them.
Michael Dinsio (26:27):
Absolutely. Yeah,
Steve Anderson (26:28):
But understand what's really important is
understanding that there's abudget and understanding that we
need to get within it. And bydoing that, as sometimes it's
simply taking this beautifulitem/object out. Yeah. And you
can still build the room and addwhether it's a water feature,
(26:48):
whether it's a
No not for start ups. No waterfeatures for start ups.
I agree with you, but whateverit might be, but you know,
whether it's a special woodwall, or whether it's, it's a
special ceiling, or somethingthat can be added.
Michael Dinsio (27:01):
Alrght so, Steve, to that point. I, love
that, folks, I just want you todigest this for a second. So
Steve suggesting that youpartner with your contractor? It
doesn't have to be so adversary.I mean, I get that in the
beginning, you have to earntrust, like Steve said. But at
(27:26):
some point, you have to trustthe partner. Okay, if I could
say this in a different way.
Steve Anderson (27:33):
Well let say this... let me give you an
example. I had a doctor that Idid a class at the school and he
took my book, and he, and he wasgetting ready to do his office.
And we gave him a budget and andthen we came back with a final
price. And there was some thingsthat he added. And so he got a
designer involved. And he said,Steve, you know, I went through
(27:55):
and, you know, overall, I'm 15%high on my budget. He said,
Steve, we need to come down. Andwhat can we do? And I am going
High Five! You know, he got it.He understood, that there's a
budget. It's not there to justlook at and say I can't do
anything with a budget issomething in which you work
(28:16):
towards keeping that?
Michael Dinsio (28:18):
That's right. Once you do commit to your
partners, the best person thebest partner, to your project is
going to be with your contractorto try to find opportunities to
cut costs. But and they won't,they won't usually give you some
of them will... But they usuallywon't let you tap into their
knowledge until they're on yourteam. It's like giving free
(28:42):
advice. And then you don't pickthem and you go with another
contractor after this contractorbusted their ass and can get you
all these $30,000 Savings ofideas and then you just walk
over to the other contract.That's not cool. So I always
talk about like, You got to findyour partner. They do need to
(29:02):
earn your trust. But you'reright, the architects and space
planners, they... When I was abanker Steve, we got three
minutes, so just hang tight.When I was a banker. Do you know
how many calls I got from thespace planner and architects
Thoughts about that?
about budget? Is like zero, likemaybe one or two in however many
(29:23):
years I was a banker. Do youknow how many calls I got from
the contractor? About budget,now? I know what you're thinking
audience you're like, Oh, thoseguys are trying to figure out my
budget so they can max it out?No, they're trying to make sure
that it works because they carenow. Sure. Again, you know, the
(29:44):
audience Steve is probablythinking like, well, they're
asking for the budget so thatthey can max it out and and pad
their pockets and sure therecould be some folks out there
Steve Anderson (29:54):
And also asking whether there is a budget, you
that are doing that. But thewhole point is, if you're not
asking about budget, then areyou really a partner to the
project? I mean, you got tothink about the other way too.
Sure, there could be some badguys out there. But if someone
isn't asking about budget, thenthen are they really spending
(30:16):
your money wisely? I don't know.I don't know.
know, and some people just say,Oh, it'll just work and, and
there's always, I have a clientthat I did five offices for
we're about to do is six, and hegoes, I've got it all covered,
(30:38):
and we're fine. And I said, toywith me. And we went through a
budget form that I have, and Isaid, let's just go through
this. And we did it and came upwith a number and I said, so
what were you expecting? He saysabout $150,000 less. It wasn't
just construction, though. Itwas talking about equipment.
(31:00):
We're talking about all thesethings. He's going oh, crap! So
it's important to look at.
Michael Dinsio (31:07):
Well Steve, sorry, to to speed that last
segment up. We're out of time.I, so appreciate your knowledge.
Folks, if you haven't gottenSteve's book, check it out.
Steve's a fantastic resource foryou. Denco is a fantastic
company to partner with. I knowthat most of my audience is
(31:28):
national. Steve primarily worksin Arizona. So if you're an
Arizona Doc, you need to reachout to Steve. But thank you,
sir, any last bit before we getcut off here? Any last? Last
thing?
Steve Anderson (31:42):
Just follow your passion. And be true to
yourself.
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