Tech Solutions for New Dental Practices!
We explore the two main server options: cloud-based vs on-premise servers. We discuss the pros and cons of each in terms of cost, security, and technical support needs. Learn how to find cost-effective solutions for your dental practice when starting up. We talk about strategies to keep your IT running smoothly without breaking the bank. From backups to troubleshooting, this episode equips you with the knowledge to confidently navigate the tech side of starting your practice with all the essential resources when building out.
Check out Darkhorse Tech here:
https://www.darkhorsetech.com/
0:00 Intro Music
1:00 Intro to Darkhorse Tech
4:11 Cloud Software vs. Local Server
8:42 Understand All Options Available to You
11:45 Using a Local on Premise Server
18:30 Costs of Technology & Staying in Budget
25:05 Sound Systems & Security Cameras
30:07 IT Maintenance Plans
38:35 Procuring Your Own Hardware
SHOW HOST:
As always Michael Dinsio your host Michael Dinsio is available to you as a Dental Practice Start Up Consultant. You can reach Michael at: https://www.nxlevelconsultants.com/start-up-practice-consulting.html
You can learn more about what he does by scheduling a One-on-One call as well:
https://calendly.com/nxlevelconsultants-michael/30-minute-new-client
#dentalstartup #dentalpodcast #startupunscripted #dentalconsultant #dentalcoach
Intro Music: Do The Math: by SLPSTRM from Artlist https://artlist.io/artist/503/slpstrm
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
Michael Dinsio (00:11):
Okay, guys, welcome to another episode today. I'm super excited to introduce Josh Arnone. This guy is a legend in the industry as it pertains to IT, information technology.
(00:56):
He works for a company, a little company calledDarkhorse Tech. Not so little. They help 1000 dentists across the country. That's how big their portfolio. So needless to say, that these guys understand the whole IT tech
(01:18):
that's the topic today. Let's, get into it. Josh,welcome to the show, brother.
Josh Arnone (01:23):
Thank you. Great to be here. Thanks for having me on. Appreciate the kind words,
Michael Dinsio (01:26):
Heck yeah, man, heck yeah. No. It's, it's been, it's been fun. We've shared some clients in the in the past here, and it's been great experiences. And it's just interesting because as a startup coach, I get lots of questions right from from my clients, and
it's all over the place. And to be honest withyou, I don't have all the answers. I'm not the IT guy. I I know a little bit about connecting a printer with a computer and getting the right drivers. I know a little bit about making sure that the phone has the app and you can pick it up before we've even started, like, there's strategy, things that are really important to me, but as far as, like, the mechanicals... No, I got nothing. And so this is very "dark" for me. And so that's
(02:13):
why experts like you are so important to theprocess. So Josh, tell me a little bit about your company. Tried to do the best I could there to intro you, but quickly tell me, Darkhorse, what are you guys all about?
Josh Arnone (02:26):
Yep, our main in the plane is being a dental MSP. So we're supporting private practices, micro, Mini and DSOs in their IT needs on a month to month basis, and just taking care of all the problems that come up, taking care of compliance factors, just cyber security in general. And as another part of our business is helping startups build out their offices, you know, choose their software stacks. And we're doing about 100 of those a year, so about two a week that we're
(02:56):
installing. So it's a big part of things, andbeing in from the ground level, it's just a really exciting time. You know, we love working with startups. It's just fun. It's a It's always fun for everyone.
Michael Dinsio (03:09):
Yeah, it is. And nationwide, nationwide. I mean, I know that I as a dental start that works coach, that works with folks all over the country. It? It? You know, I always get the local guy. And There absolutely are local folks in every market. But it's interesting how you're you guys are very competitive nationwide and competing against those local folks. You know, I don't always know what I'm getting with the local and, there might be some amazing local firms
(03:43):
out there, but it's really easy for me to referyou guys and because you I know that you know dental and you're competitive, flying all over the country and doing these installs.
So from a price perspective, I know it works. Butwith that being said, this conversation could go in all kinds of directions. I'm going to jump right into it. We'll lose our audience if we don't. And so my big question to you today, and let's see where else this goes. But oh my gosh, I am so sick of the cloud software conversation and trust me, like I'm all about cloud technology. We use Google Docs, and I've got team members all over the country, and we're uploading and that's
(04:27):
all super cool. But for for dentistry, I'm notentirely sold on the whole cloud situation, and for folks that work with me, they know that I'm very cost conscientious when it comes to budgeting. So if there was a way to cut a really expensive server out of the project, I'll be the first one to say, hell yeah. But I am not sold on cloud and and there's a lot of reasons for it. For that in my mind, I'd like to hear your take, and maybe you're a big cloud guy, I don't know. I
(04:59):
don't know what we're getting into. Let's justhave that conversation cloud versus server. Let's, let's go with this.
Josh Arnone (05:05):
Yeah, it this is probably the most common conversation that I have regarding startups,
Michael Dinsio (05:10):
yes,
Josh Arnone (05:11):
and it's not. It doesn't even have to be just with with clients, one on one, but just as moving forward, it's going to be more and more prevalent, you're going to see more and more things going cloud. That's just where the development dollars are going from these platforms that are the most popular in the industry. Okay, so no one's going to be investing heavily in just the legacy hardware and locally based softwares. So we're ready for the cloud. We, you know, take
(05:44):
care of a ton of people who are utilizing it,
fully embrace it. We are not scared of this. It isgoing to be something that we know that we can service. And the sticky point around it, usually, when it comes to dental, is imaging. And what am I going to do there if, you have to leave your imaging locally based? So you you know that needs to be a locally harness software system
Unknown (06:10):
that's going to make things not as efficient as if you had a cloud based imaging platform as well. Because if you're if you're going to go cloud, I almost see that as like a critical piece of things that you have to let your imaging be cloud as well.
Michael Dinsio (06:23):
Isn't that kind of the point? That's kind of the point of this conversation is because every everything's going cloud. You just said it, all the dollars are going, everybody's talking about it. But what you just said with imaging, multiply that by dental softwares that are trying to connect, Weave, Swell, Dental Intel, Practice by Numbers, imaging, all of these things aren't compatible, really yet. And my experience here, I get clients. Oh, I really love the the
(07:01):
ASCEND and I really love the Care stack, and Ireally love the Oryx I heard the other day. And I like Fuse and this, it's like, Okay, guys, if you have to remember and and Josh back me up on this, you have to remember that there are some really fantastic programs out there that help you do what you need to do every single day. From a system perspective, it might be collecting money, it might be auto confirmations, it might be scheduling online. It might be all these really
(07:31):
cool systems that were all built for a serverbased technology, Dentrix, Eaglesoft, Open Dental, and now we've got Fuse and Care Stack and all this, and none of that integrates. And so, ahh! like it's a mess. It's a it's a mess. Sorry for my language. So this is why I'm not on cloud yet. Because, okay, so let's, let's, let's talk about, how do you handle that?
Josh Arnone (07:55):
Yep, it really is. We don't steer our clients any kind of directions. You know, we work with everybody, and it doesn't matter if they want to use Dentrix Ascend or Dentrix locally. We really want to find out, what is it going to make your practice successful? And if it's like, Hey, I have to use a Dexus imaging platform, because I think that's going to let me provide better treatment plans. It's going to be more accurate, and it's just going to be, let my office be more
(08:24):
productive. Well, then we say you're, youshouldn't be cloud based. You can't, you can't be cloud. Yeah, right now, and now, if it's someone's like, Hey, I just came for an office and we're using Oryx there. I love it. I love their imaging module, then we would say you could be fully cloud. And we have no worries about that whatsoever.
Michael Dinsio (08:42):
So your job is to really make connect the dots and make sure everything's working. It's interesting though, Josh, because every startup client that we work with has a different preference. They came from an office, and they really love this system, but maybe they didn't know that this system existed, but their office, they love it. It's the system that they know, let's go with it. A lot of their decision making process about like, what systems and add
(09:08):
ons that they need and like are totally like basedon where they came from, or maybe some Facebook forum. And I think that's where they get into trouble, because they're just they haven't really experienced it. They're not looking at the demos. They're so exhausted at the point that they are talking to you in the process. I mean, at this point, folks, business plan, budgeting, banking, construction equipment, marketing, a lot of these decisions were made and you're like, just wiped
(09:38):
out. It's been like, almost nine months of justdecision making in your phase, and then these last little 60 day conversations before open need to be made. And it like raises a lot of concern, and then, and then they, like my clients, just kind of get wiped out. So they just go with what's easy. So I kind of trust that you guys are going to walk them.
(09:59):
Through, like all of the possibilities, I heardyou say, not steer, but a lot of cases, I think my clients do need some direction on what's the best scenario for them.
Josh Arnone (10:11):
Yeah, and I think that's a point of clarification too. If, if a client comes to us and said, Hey, I'm using Eaglesoft, I'm using Schick sensors, I'm going to have a 2d panoramic machine to me, I say, Great, let's do that. If a client comes to me and says, I want to do X, Y and Z, what do you think the platform I should look at is?
And from a from an ease of integration standpointand from an ease of use standpoint, cost value perspective, most of the time, that's leading to an Open Dental. If you haven't seen it, please go do it. And if you, if you need to set that up, just go for it. Because that we know that's going to be the, the most flexible platform to integrate with everything you'd need. It doesn't matter imaging. Doesn't matter what kind of other third party integrations you'd want. Yeah, it's going to
Michael Dinsio (10:59):
Their name is open dental for a reason, and it might not be the sexiest, but it definitely makes your life easy once you once you open your practice. And the thing folks to remember is is you're not going to know everything when you're making these decisions with Josh, and so you're going to be like, Well I wish. I wish I would have known this, setting this whole system up, because now I can't have whatever Dental Intel or whatever like it's frustrating. So what you
work.
(11:27):
don't know today can haunt you later. So to me, Iwant to, I want to stay as "open", no pun intended as possible, so that it so I have more options. But yeah, so with that being said, if someone does go server, which is kind of the way, I quote, unquote, push my clients for the for the reason of just having flexibility in the future, for for a lot of different reasons. And by the way, these, these cloud softwares I mean, they, they're expensive over time you start adding in all of the
(12:04):
different things. That's how they that's how theygot you right? Isn't that the way the models are kind of shifting to,
Josh Arnone (12:11):
yeah, just subscription based, and it's kind of universal, and going to be universal having that server based program, you know, there's, costs associated with that too, if, if you're going to be using a Dentrix, well, you have to have a Dentrix support plan too. That's going to be an ongoing cost, and those aren't going to be static over time, but yes, it is going to be an expense. That is, it's going to be a real thing. Obviously, you don't have that hardware. And this
(12:39):
is coming from a person who, if, if you buy aserver, it's better for me. You know, we do, we do sell hardware and computers and servers. So I am not against servers in any regard, but trying to get ready for that future transition where we know it's going to go, I always get the question, if I get a server now, well, can I just go cloud based later? Answer is, yes! You could definitely do that, so you would have that flexibility.
Michael Dinsio (13:05):
But which then you're flushing a server cost a little bit down the toilet, but if you but I guess my thought is, is, if you have multiple practices, I could totally see why cloud makes a ton of sense, right?
Josh Arnone (13:17):
Oh, yeah. Or a lot of remote employees, you know, lot of people like that that those are all, these are all factors that influence the conversation we're going to have around your IT choices,
Michael Dinsio (13:27):
but you led into, like you do, a lot of private practice and a lot of DSO. So that, to me, is the DSO conversations, like, there's a solution for this huge empire, third party billing. I've got multiple offices. Let's just manage this thing all on cloud. That makes a ton of sense to me. Just, but when you're a startup, you have zero patients, zero sales, you're getting up off the ground. I understand that your future vision is 3, 4, 5, 10, practices, great, but you
(13:56):
need one to be successful before you can have two.
So you know, let's say that you need to be in yourstartup for six, seven years before you could even entertain the idea of a second office, unless you just dominate. You know, the cost, the cost of the server over six years and then flipping over to cloud later. It's probably not so bad.
Josh Arnone (14:21):
Yeah, that's a general lifetime of a server. Is right around that year mark too, near five to seven years. So you'd be going through the lifetime of that server. But having a server also does increase costs in other ways.
Michael Dinsio (14:33):
Okay, so let's talk about that.
Josh Arnone (14:35):
If you have that local server in your office, it's going to need to be backed up. Just for HIPAA compliance, you're going to need to have backup services, both locally and remotely in the cloud, which is an expense. And if you're a cloud based and you're using cloud imaging, you never have to worry about backups again.
Steve Anderson (14:51):
again.
Michael Dinsio (14:52):
I thought, I thought you did have to back up some things if you're cloud
Josh Arnone (14:56):
some things. But it is the it's much less intensive, much less costly, to do that with a cloud based system,
Michael Dinsio (15:03):
I see.
Josh Arnone (15:03):
So there are expenses associated with that server that you don't have in the cloud. So those things still tend to balance out on a monthly basis, a cloud program would be more expensive, but it's not as cut and dry as there's no... nothing ongoing with the server and then all ongoing with the cloud. There is ongoing things that would need to happen with the server as well, that those costs
Michael Dinsio (15:25):
so in general, over time, would you say they're probably equal, no matter which decision you go over time, over time, because, because the cloud, you got to remember two way texting, that's a that's a must in today, in modern dentistry,
Josh Arnone (15:40):
oh yeah,
Michael Dinsio (15:41):
Scheduling online, that's a must. Forms online, that's a must. I mean, covid changed everything. So if you have all of these extra bells and whistles that cloud services are offering, you're getting into some of those higher expenses subscription based, as you called it. So that's more expensive than server, but server investment initially is higher. Am I? Am I explaining that right?
Josh Arnone (16:09):
Yes. So the you're explaining exactly right, and depending on the software stack you're using, like, let's say you're bought a server. You're using Open Dental, and you're traditionally running that office, as usually happens. But then, you know, you tag on using Flex and Flex books, and let's say you're using Weave, and then you have your your software's cost has just gone up, you know, three or four fold. Yeah, yeah, okay, what would that have cost with something that has
(16:39):
a lot of those solutions built in if you're usinga Curve hero, let's say yeah. What is that going to be per month versus what your software stack is?
Michael Dinsio (16:46):
Yeah.
Josh Arnone (16:47):
Plus you have one platform. So there's pros and cons, and if you're running a tough decision, if you're running a slim shop that you know, you don't have to have those third party (softwares). But to your point now you kind of do you need to have your paperless forms and texting and these services are a expectation and a must. So I am weighing those costs out. And honestly, if someone asked me, Hey, how much does Fuse cost a month? I don't know. I'm not sure how much it
(17:13):
costs a month.
Unknown (17:14):
And so you're gonna
Steve Anderson (17:15):
find
Michael Dinsio (17:15):
And by the way, over time, there's gonna be more and more and more and more and more. There's gonna be, like 100 options on the cloud eventually.
Josh Arnone (17:23):
Oh yeah.
Michael Dinsio (17:23):
And there's like three options today, in my opinion, that are good. And we both know what those three options are, Dentrix Equalssoft, Open, Dental.
Unknown (17:33):
You know, it's it's good. It's gonna change everything. It's gonna be super interesting. But all right, let's pivot. I feel like we exhausted that one a little bit. We only have so much time. But thank you for breaking that down. It's a very complex conversation. I don't think the Facebook forums folks or even just this podcast today is going to give you the answer that you're looking for. Bottom line, it's very it's very specific to your needs. You have to
(18:01):
understand what you're trying to do with yourpatient experience. You have to understand the biggest picture possible for the future and today, and then you got to weigh all those costs. But I just get startups, clients, that are just get so myopic about cost, and they think that cloud's the option, and it's funny, because it's that's not, that's not a simple answer for from a cost perspective. So that's actually, that's the flip. That's the next question. Okay, so cost, costs
(18:30):
have gone up, man, in the IT world, and it's notbecause of, oh, maybe it's your labor. Everybody's labor is more expensive. But that's probably a small factor. What the hell is going on like the the quotes two years ago, for a startup straight out of the out of the woodwork.
Michael Dinsio (18:47):
Today, it's a solid 5,000, maybe even $8,000, more a total project, computing the whole the whole gamut. What's going on? Why?
Josh Arnone (18:58):
I think that there's a couple things that impact that number one, there is soft costs like travel that right now are just so high., and having that specialized labor that, like we have to fly in, which we, you know, we have traveling techs that travel the country every week of the year. And God bless the guys. They just bust their backs every day.
Michael Dinsio (19:19):
But you guys are competitive. You guys are competitive with local versus not. So
Those those costs still add up, you know? Yeah,let's say a 20% increase in travel costs. Hotels are really expensive right now too, and we're spending a full week that we're going to be at a startup just building out the practice. Other things that I think are driving up costs are things like an expectation of entertainment throughout the office. Now, if I have a worth and if I have an ortho client come to us and just say, Hey, I'm not doing any TVs. I have workstations.
(19:50):
They're going to be a cart side, Chair side, andwe have to do very little entertainment. That's going to be a really effective use of dollar.
Josh Arnone (19:59):
Or they're going to have all the technology, but they don't have the bells and whistles of entertainment that are kind of expected now. What I want is two TV's, TV on the ceiling. I want a TV at the toe of the patient. I want to be able to have all these connected to my computer so I could pull up imaging on the on the toe and on the ceiling. I want to show, let's say one movie simultaneously, out throughout the whole office. These are things that increase costs.
(20:27):
Yeah, okay, so the energy, they're coming more andmore expected.
Michael Dinsio (20:32):
Okay I think they're expected, but I don't think they're necessary for startup folks, I think you need to have some entertainment. But folks, you're not going to compete with with the corporate, the corporate groups that have more money than God, and frankly, your patient experience is going to be so much better than a corporate so you have to weigh that. I mean, in a world where, when we talk about this folks, where lending is constant being stretched, construction
(21:07):
dollars are out of control, equipment has beeneverything is going up. And that's why I'm asking Josh, like, why his costs are going up. It's a perfect example. But just like, you have to cut some places. And so that's really good. So entertainment. So would you say that the average startup, well, give us, like the perfect world, and then give us, what if you had a tight budget, what would you slim down to but still offer some, some entertainment? Does that make sense? Yeah,
(21:36):
what's the what's the middle ground?
Josh Arnone (21:38):
I think that a good middle ground is that, if you're a startup, you're outfitting two or three ops begin with that you do one front desk station, you have your imaging computer, your doctor's office, your two or three treatment rooms. You do one television in each of those treatment rooms, just at the toe of the patient. But it's important that prepare for the future, you want flexibility. So when you're wiring out your office, you have all the infrastructure
(22:05):
there, where, if you want to add those TVs downthe road, boom. Wait till you have some cash flow. Wait till you have a good vision of how you want to implement that, and then you could pull the trigger down the road.
Michael Dinsio (22:16):
Yeah.,
Josh Arnone (22:17):
That's a very competitive cost wise, when it comes to a startup, your technology stack is not going to be a huge cost burden. And if you said, oh, yeah, oh, I want to do my consult room right from beginning. I want another station and sterilization for ordering, those things are going to multiply and add up really quickly.
Michael Dinsio (22:37):
So yeah. So cut sterilization desktop. You don't need it. Go to the OP that you're not using. You have three ops. You probably only need one op in the first or two ops in the first year, technically. So you have another op a workshop to so to your point, six desktops is kind of what I heard. I always say somewhere between five to seven is where I want my my guy, my guys and gals to be
Josh Arnone (23:02):
Yes, absolutely
Michael Dinsio (23:03):
I get these quotes. It's like, nine. It's like, bro, how many computers do you need? And right out of the gate, what are you doing?
Josh Arnone (23:10):
Those are things that like, and I'm not against implementing these things, but budgets are a reality. That's having, having a television that's, you know, a huddle station in your break room for going, you know, having to schedule up and doing educational things. I get how useful that is, and we implement them all the time, but that's a soft cost that I think that you can cut from the beginning and just say this is going to happen later. I've got the bones there to do it,
(23:35):
but why don't I wait a couple months, have somecash flow, and if I really need it, I could get that within a couple weeks, and it'll be done
Michael Dinsio (23:41):
Couple of weeks. Did you hear that? Folks, like, literally, you could call Josh and say, I need another app, I need a TV, I need a desktop, I need this. But boom, Josh puts it in. It's done. Like, why put on that extra expense when you don't need to. The name of the game? Folks, ex banker talking is to break even as fast as possible. So if you're going crazy on your expenses, with your wants and versus needs, you're not going to break even until maybe 18 months. So
(24:13):
then you're not going to be able to quit yourassociate position as soon as you want, and that's what you really want to do. My startups break even in in four, four to five months, because I we are lean and mean and and by the way, some of that is the subscription stuff. Everybody brings me the subscription, subscription subs. And I'm all about efficiency and streamlining, the follow ups and the confirmations and this, that and the other. I'm all about that that's super and fun, but your
(24:41):
front office person and your dental assistant areliterally gonna be sitting on their hands waiting for patients to come. What are they doing all day? Have them confirm, have them call so you know. And by the way, a personal touch is always better than a text message, always 100% All right, I'm getting into stuff.
So, so I love that. What to cut some TVs. Don't gocrazy with the desktops. What about sound? This is always a conversation? Sound like awesome music versus or not? Versus sound and and security, those are two things that are really important. You're based out of New York. I'm assuming if I had downtown New York, I'd want security cameras everywhere, you get what I'm saying. Security and sound, those are two places that people cut if they have to. Walk us through the dangers of that.
(25:35):
Or is that a good idea? I think that sound hasevolved to a point where there's some just really, really value driven solutions out there that can make your life easier, rather than having your traditional you know, I have a volume control nub on the wall. It turns my music up and down in the spaces where I want it to that's going to take, no matter if you have 10 speakers throughout the office or three, it's got a minimum requirement of the stuff that you need, you're going to need a
(26:03):
receiver, no matter what an amplifier, no matterwhat you're going to need, volume controllers. These things are a minimum cost, and they all have to be wired, which is going to be a cost as well in your in your pre wiring phase, which is just going to add to the overall number where there's really great options out there that you can get with smart speakers that might not look that but they're super flexible.
Josh Arnone (26:25):
They are just controlled through your desktop or your phone. They have great sound quality, but you could just add or subtract them and move them around the way you want to. As long as you have the proper infrastructure, you can have a great experience, and it's a fraction of the cost for a full Office.
Michael Dinsio (26:43):
And you could, you could technically put, like, walk me through, like, short term, long term, if someone wanted to go there eventually, is there a way to set up the behind the scenes for some of this wiring, or the empty hubs or whatever, like, is there a way to get there eventually, if you went Sonos or something, and then, and then later on, wanted to wire in. How do you walk people through that
Josh Arnone (27:08):
for sure? All that could be done in the pre wiring phase, you know, we get prepared for a hardwired sound system later on down the road, and hopefully you have drop ceilings in your space as a startup for that flexibility, where that wiring can kind of just be tucked away and waiting to be implemented down the road, everything is there to where you just need some hardware to implement it later on. That this happens a lot with security cameras, where we'll
(27:33):
put the necessary wiring in place with a littlebit of flexibility and a little extra length on wires to make sure that we can put that camera just where you want it, so that way you're not running into that initial cost of, let's say it's $1,000 to get a security camera system with three or four cameras, you could hold off on that $1,000 but you know, later on, let's say you had a great month and you want some cameras, you can pull that trigger, and those cameras can be implemented at
(27:59):
that time pretty easily, just like we talked aboutthe TVs.
Michael Dinsio (28:02):
Yeah
Josh Arnone (28:03):
So those are two things that you could really prepare for. It's just going to be getting those bones of your system ready, which it should be done the right way from beginning anyway, so that's going to be part of just a proper pre planning of incur a little bit of expense during that wiring phase to give you maximum flexibility later on.
Michael Dinsio (28:23):
And I think that's the danger of your industry, for for my clients, is that you could get a slick salesperson to just talk you into all this stuff, and pretty soon you're spending, frankly, 35,000 and and and, you know, it's all it's all warranted stuff like, it's all stuff that you could be talked into. But with proper planning, with Josh and his team, you can get in at a much lower price point and prepare for the future. When you have cash flow and folks,
(29:00):
it's a startup. You have zero patients, zerosales. Why are you building a Taj Mahal? As if you have a million dollar practice, and everybody wants to have a million dollar practice, but the the reality is, if it was that easy to hit a million bucks, don't you think everybody would be doing it? And trust me, they're not and so. And so there's winners and losers in this life, and and absolutely there's, there's, there's losers, and just these little practice hacks I call that Josh
(29:36):
is giving you here. Take that route, but plan forthe future. A Josh who works for a credible company, does a great job. Can prepare you for the future so that you don't have to go crazy on your budget, on the initial, but plan for the future. Okay, last topic, I'm actually running out of time, but we're having a great conversation, and honestly, this could be an hour conversation because of the.
(29:59):
The emails and the calls and the texts and thequestions from my clients about all this stuff, and half the time I don't have the answer, but the the next question I kind of want to take us to is maintenance. So let's go there. I think maintenance is what you really want, Josh, let's be honest, right? You want that client on a maintenance program. Why does Josh want a maintenance program? Because it's residual for him. It's a it's a nice little business to manage,
(30:33):
and if the installs, right, it's fairly easy. I'mjust, I'm just going to be super transparent about it, right? That's, that's his business, but it's essential that you have someone on retainer in case an OP goes down, so you have to do it. And there's different pricing models out there. We don't have to get into cost. But like, what are some things to be aware of about maintenance? Educate us on maintenance. This is like geek squad on retainer. The computer's not working. Josh, get
(31:07):
me up and running. I have patients all day today.Go. Josh,
Josh Arnone (31:10):
yep, this is our, like I had mentioned the beginning. It's our, made in the plane. This is how we have a business. It is monthly support. It was. It's a big need, obviously a growing need, and it's something that just more and more top of mind every day that you see in the news ransomware attacks that before I got into the industry, I didn't think we're a real thing, but we get, you know, probably a call a week of a client that does not ours, saying they
(31:36):
were attacked by ransomware. What can you do tohelp me? And it's always a really difficult conversation, so that's just the cybersecurity part of it, but following along when you're dealing with technology needs for HIPAA compliance, obviously, those things need to be taken care of, and they can be automated to some extent, with, you know, proper management that always comes along with that.
Unknown (31:58):
That is. And we have plans that just outline that, that, hey, we're going to do the minimum, and it's going to be really cost effective for you. But if you need help fixing things, it's just going to be a per 15 minute kind of thing. And if you need that help, because we'll get we'll get clients. Oh, you know what, my my dad handles my it in the office. Well, we only work with dentists, and every one of our technicians are dental specialists.
Josh Arnone (32:23):
So they know all these softwares, they know they know how to every how everything plugs in that. I'm just gonna say your brother doesn't, I promise exactly, and it could save hours of downtime, which for a dental office, that's a lot of revenue. So having that much experience and limiting downtime is something that we really pride ourselves in. But I think a big misconception out there is, hey, I went cloud, your favorite topic, and I went cloud, I don't
(32:53):
really need IT anymore, do I? Well, actually, yes,you still do. The only thing that you really are not needing as much or those backups for your server that are typically needed 100% of the time. So if you go cloud, don't think that I don't need anything now, because I'm cloud based, you know, I have a, I have a support plan of Dentrix Ascend. I should be fine. I don't need it. That is not true.
Michael Dinsio (33:18):
That's just, that's just Dentrix. That's not everything else that you guys handle. And give us a rundown real quick of what you handle, like phones,
Josh Arnone (33:28):
yeah, typically fixing the voiceover, internet phones, sensor issues, CBCT and panoramics, intraoral cameras, you know, things like iteros, doing the all the networking. So that's all your switching and patch panels, your servers, your PCs, sound, sound security, security cameras, your your scanners, your printers, your signature pads, credit card readers. These are all things that are day to day.
Michael Dinsio (33:56):
So Dentrix is one of those things. He just listed 15 ish,
Josh Arnone (34:01):
So we become your vendor managers at that point too. So your front desk isn't scrambling saying, you know, how do I get in touch with mango voice? Our phones are down and I can't call what do I do? What's the number? Just call us. We manage all your vendors. You don't ever have to sit on hold the Dentrix again. You don't have to find out who the point of contact is, that so, so and so, it's just called Darkhorse. They'll be on it.
Michael Dinsio (34:24):
If only you could sit on the phone for Delta Dental and get a fax back. Everybody understands that that works at the front desk. So, yes, so perfect. So what's the strategy around cost. What's a normal thing people should think of? I I've seen people do it by desktop. I've seen people do it by other things. What's the what's the philosophy? And we'll end it on this particular conversation.
Josh Arnone (34:53):
Yeah. So for startups in particular, since we're, you know, gathered around this subject here, we just try to make it really easy and say it's going to be a flat, predictable fee every month. And this is what it's going to be a very good deal. It's going to be very value driven, but it's going to be that way for your first 12 months, so you have, you know, a predictable, uh, cash flow, and that hopefully by the end of that 12 months, you're ready to grow
(35:18):
your your business is doing well. We've beensupporting everything that we need to and it's, and we try to outline very transparently, this is what's included, which is going to cover the vast majority of everything you need. Could there be outside costs? Yes, if you call me and you need another front desk computer that's not included, obviously.
And then the rare instance where we need someonethat would be on site, in your office, that would be something that's just an extra cost, but it is not something that you have to budget for month to month. Yeah, so, and if we try to just be reasonable,
Michael Dinsio (35:50):
and if the install is done effective, then you're going to have less issues later on, too. So there's probably the install and support conversation, which, if you didn't do the install and did the did the service plan, that's going to be probably an interesting conversation, or vice versa, but, but that that's really helpful. So
(36:13):
folks, I, I think I say this a lot on the on theprogram you want to work with people that understand what you're getting into and have created a program around your success. And I say that because Josh just said he gives you a maintenance plan for the first year that's heavily discounted because he appreciates that you're a startup and that you're trying to break even. You have to align yourself with the right partners that understand what you're going through and not
(36:42):
just selling you what they want. That's that's asuper cool thing, and I'm going to tell you right now, like everybody deserves the full price that works with startups. I say that nicely. You guys need so much help, and in a lot of ways, we should be charging double, whatever the prices are. We should be charging you guys double, because it's three times the calls, three times the energy, three like, if a, if a, if a dental office that's been going for 1015, 20 years, they got it. You
(37:18):
don't have to have the same conversations. Theyalready have a system. You just kind of need to fix it. Josh, it's way less time right? Way less time startup. It's like, you guys know nothing, and that's okay. We love you. It's a passion of ours, and and it's, uh, it's, I love it. I love startups because it's just that that's my passion. But I want you all to know that when someone gives you a break like that, that means something that's not a sales pitch. It means something he he should
(37:44):
probably charge double literally, because they'regoing to have double the calls throughout the day. Because you're not sure how things work, where an existing practice has been existing for a long time. So understand that, folks, because I, I feel like sometimes my startups just feel like they're spending so much money. Everything's just whirling around them, and they get a little resentful at the vendors out there that are helping them. Oh, I'm paying him so much money. What the heck.
(38:14):
I promise you, you're a lot more demanding thanthe average client. I want you all to understand that, and so just treat your vendors really respectfully. Sidebar without Josh here, just just understand that it's a love language for us, that we love you guys and we want to support you. So that's really cool program that you're giving, that 12 month program, any last minute words or plugs or things that you want folks to check out. Guys, as always, in the show notes, we're going to
(38:44):
give you Josh's contact information. There's goingto be a website down there. If he wants to offer up a white page or a discount or some promotion, it's going to be down below. But anything else, Josh that you would like, like to bring to my audience?
Josh Arnone (38:59):
You know, we just try to cater to what your specific needs are not going to like. I said, not pushing anybody in any directions. And if I could offer just a piece of advice for anybody, no matter if you're working with a vendor like myself, one of our competitors that are just quality, reputable businesses, don't take it on yourself to try to procure your own hardware
Unknown (39:21):
you're going to pay for it later on. And it's not coming from a bad place. There's just so many, there's so many intricacies to it. So, you know, don't, don't just look at a quote and say, Hey, I found this for $100 cheaper on Amazon. I could save myself easy $1,000 but then you find out when you go to install things that, Ah, man, this does not have the proper operating system. I need Windows Pro. This came home, and then I and it just totally scuttles you, and then you wind up
(39:47):
paying more every time.
Michael Dinsio (39:48):
That's like the we should have led with that Josh that if people get through this whole episode, that's the nugget of the show. I get that a lot to add, some to add before I close this down, to add a little bit. of credibility to that, because you're not, you're not a greaseball sales guy. To add some credibility to that, if there was one thing that that that a client could buy and handle on its own that wouldn't burn them, what would that one thing be?
Josh Arnone (40:15):
I think there's two things all your televisions and if you like the esthetic of a monitor, your computer monitors that are really that what people see. Okay, he said, Go. Go for it. Go for it. Just let us know what it is, so you can properly plan,
Michael Dinsio (40:29):
plan that. See, guys, that's what I mean. Like, don't he gave you a golden nugget. Don't go crazy and do all your hardware. But if you were going to and wanted to save the money, it's not gonna save you that much. But if, you were to do it. Those were the two things he gave us, too. We got a little bonus. Let's shut it down with that. Josh, it was a pleasure. My friend, Darkhorse Tech nationwide, great guys understand dental clearly and have a nice program for
(40:56):
startups that ease you into that maintenance planto help you break even quicker. Josh, thanks so much for being on the show, brother. We'll, cherish this one and get it out to the community.
Josh Arnone (41:07):
Of course, really enjoyed doing this, and thank you for having us on and you know, looking forward to speaking the future.
Michael Dinsio (41:13):
Right on, brother. All right. With that being said, let's, let's shut this down. Thank you guys. Talk to you soon.
Unknown (41:22):
You
Michael Dinsio (00:11):
Okay, guys, welcome to another episode today. I'm super excited to introduce Josh Arnone. This guy is a legend in the industry as it pertains to IT, information technology.
(00:56):
He works for a company, a little company calledDarkhorse Tech. Not so little. They help 1000 dentists across the country. That's how big their portfolio. So needless to say, that these guys understand the whole IT tech
(01:18):
that's the topic today. Let's, get into it. Josh,welcome to the show, brother.
Josh Arnone (01:23):
Thank you. Great to be here. Thanks for having me on. Appreciate the kind words,
Michael Dinsio (01:26):
Heck yeah, man, heck yeah. No. It's, it's been, it's been fun. We've shared some clients in the in the past here, and it's been great experiences. And it's just interesting because as a startup coach, I get lots of questions right from from my clients, and
it's all over the place. And to be honest withyou, I don't have all the answers. I'm not the IT guy. I I know a little bit about connecting a printer with a computer and getting the right drivers. I know a little bit about making sure that the phone has the app and you can pick it up before we've even started, like, there's strategy, things that are really important to me, but as far as, like, the mechanicals... No, I got nothing. And so this is very "dark" for me. And so that's
(02:13):
why experts like you are so important to theprocess. So Josh, tell me a little bit about your company. Tried to do the best I could there to intro you, but quickly tell me, Darkhorse, what are you guys all about?
Josh Arnone (02:26):
Yep, our main in the plane is being a dental MSP. So we're supporting private practices, micro, Mini and DSOs in their IT needs on a month to month basis, and just taking care of all the problems that come up, taking care of compliance factors, just cyber security in general. And as another part of our business is helping startups build out their offices, you know, choose their software stacks. And we're doing about 100 of those a year, so about two a week that we're
(02:56):
installing. So it's a big part of things, andbeing in from the ground level, it's just a really exciting time. You know, we love working with startups. It's just fun. It's a It's always fun for everyone.
Michael Dinsio (03:09):
Yeah, it is. And nationwide, nationwide. I mean, I know that I as a dental start that works coach, that works with folks all over the country. It? It? You know, I always get the local guy. And There absolutely are local folks in every market. But it's interesting how you're you guys are very competitive nationwide and competing against those local folks. You know, I don't always know what I'm getting with the local and, there might be some amazing local firms
(03:43):
out there, but it's really easy for me to referyou guys and because you I know that you know dental and you're competitive, flying all over the country and doing these installs.
So from a price perspective, I know it works. Butwith that being said, this conversation could go in all kinds of directions. I'm going to jump right into it. We'll lose our audience if we don't. And so my big question to you today, and let's see where else this goes. But oh my gosh, I am so sick of the cloud software conversation and trust me, like I'm all about cloud technology. We use Google Docs, and I've got team members all over the country, and we're uploading and that's
(04:27):
all super cool. But for for dentistry, I'm notentirely sold on the whole cloud situation, and for folks that work with me, they know that I'm very cost conscientious when it comes to budgeting. So if there was a way to cut a really expensive server out of the project, I'll be the first one to say, hell yeah. But I am not sold on cloud and and there's a lot of reasons for it. For that in my mind, I'd like to hear your take, and maybe you're a big cloud guy, I don't know. I
(04:59):
don't know what we're getting into. Let's justhave that conversation cloud versus server. Let's, let's go with this.
Josh Arnone (05:05):
Yeah, it this is probably the most common conversation that I have regarding startups,
Michael Dinsio (05:10):
yes,
Josh Arnone (05:11):
and it's not. It doesn't even have to be just with with clients, one on one, but just as moving forward, it's going to be more and more prevalent, you're going to see more and more things going cloud. That's just where the development dollars are going from these platforms that are the most popular in the industry. Okay, so no one's going to be investing heavily in just the legacy hardware and locally based softwares. So we're ready for the cloud. We, you know, take
(05:44):
care of a ton of people who are utilizing it,
fully embrace it. We are not scared of this. It isgoing to be something that we know that we can service. And the sticky point around it, usually, when it comes to dental, is imaging. And what am I going to do there if, you have to leave your imaging locally based? So you you know that needs to be a locally harness software system
Unknown (06:10):
that's going to make things not as efficient as if you had a cloud based imaging platform as well. Because if you're if you're going to go cloud, I almost see that as like a critical piece of things that you have to let your imaging be cloud as well.
Michael Dinsio (06:23):
Isn't that kind of the point? That's kind of the point of this conversation is because every everything's going cloud. You just said it, all the dollars are going, everybody's talking about it. But what you just said with imaging, multiply that by dental softwares that are trying to connect, Weave, Swell, Dental Intel, Practice by Numbers, imaging, all of these things aren't compatible, really yet. And my experience here, I get clients. Oh, I really love the the
(07:01):
ASCEND and I really love the Care stack, and Ireally love the Oryx I heard the other day. And I like Fuse and this, it's like, Okay, guys, if you have to remember and and Josh back me up on this, you have to remember that there are some really fantastic programs out there that help you do what you need to do every single day. From a system perspective, it might be collecting money, it might be auto confirmations, it might be scheduling online. It might be all these really
(07:31):
cool systems that were all built for a serverbased technology, Dentrix, Eaglesoft, Open Dental, and now we've got Fuse and Care Stack and all this, and none of that integrates. And so, ahh! like it's a mess. It's a it's a mess. Sorry for my language. So this is why I'm not on cloud yet. Because, okay, so let's, let's, let's talk about, how do you handle that?
Josh Arnone (07:55):
Yep, it really is. We don't steer our clients any kind of directions. You know, we work with everybody, and it doesn't matter if they want to use Dentrix Ascend or Dentrix locally. We really want to find out, what is it going to make your practice successful? And if it's like, Hey, I have to use a Dexus imaging platform, because I think that's going to let me provide better treatment plans. It's going to be more accurate, and it's just going to be, let my office be more
(08:24):
productive. Well, then we say you're, youshouldn't be cloud based. You can't, you can't be cloud. Yeah, right now, and now, if it's someone's like, Hey, I just came for an office and we're using Oryx there. I love it. I love their imaging module, then we would say you could be fully cloud. And we have no worries about that whatsoever.
Michael Dinsio (08:42):
So your job is to really make connect the dots and make sure everything's working. It's interesting though, Josh, because every startup client that we work with has a different preference. They came from an office, and they really love this system, but maybe they didn't know that this system existed, but their office, they love it. It's the system that they know, let's go with it. A lot of their decision making process about like, what systems and add
(09:08):
ons that they need and like are totally like basedon where they came from, or maybe some Facebook forum. And I think that's where they get into trouble, because they're just they haven't really experienced it. They're not looking at the demos. They're so exhausted at the point that they are talking to you in the process. I mean, at this point, folks, business plan, budgeting, banking, construction equipment, marketing, a lot of these decisions were made and you're like, just wiped
(09:38):
out. It's been like, almost nine months of justdecision making in your phase, and then these last little 60 day conversations before open need to be made. And it like raises a lot of concern, and then, and then they, like my clients, just kind of get wiped out. So they just go with what's easy. So I kind of trust that you guys are going to walk them.
(09:59):
Through, like all of the possibilities, I heardyou say, not steer, but a lot of cases, I think my clients do need some direction on what's the best scenario for them.
Josh Arnone (10:11):
Yeah, and I think that's a point of clarification too. If, if a client comes to us and said, Hey, I'm using Eaglesoft, I'm using Schick sensors, I'm going to have a 2d panoramic machine to me, I say, Great, let's do that. If a client comes to me and says, I want to do X, Y and Z, what do you think the platform I should look at is?
And from a from an ease of integration standpointand from an ease of use standpoint, cost value perspective, most of the time, that's leading to an Open Dental. If you haven't seen it, please go do it. And if you, if you need to set that up, just go for it. Because that we know that's going to be the, the most flexible platform to integrate with everything you'd need. It doesn't matter imaging. Doesn't matter what kind of other third party integrations you'd want. Yeah, it's going to
Michael Dinsio (10:59):
Their name is open dental for a reason, and it might not be the sexiest, but it definitely makes your life easy once you once you open your practice. And the thing folks to remember is is you're not going to know everything when you're making these decisions with Josh, and so you're going to be like, Well I wish. I wish I would have known this, setting this whole system up, because now I can't have whatever Dental Intel or whatever like it's frustrating. So what you
work.
(11:27):
don't know today can haunt you later. So to me, Iwant to, I want to stay as "open", no pun intended as possible, so that it so I have more options. But yeah, so with that being said, if someone does go server, which is kind of the way, I quote, unquote, push my clients for the for the reason of just having flexibility in the future, for for a lot of different reasons. And by the way, these, these cloud softwares I mean, they, they're expensive over time you start adding in all of the
(12:04):
different things. That's how they that's how theygot you right? Isn't that the way the models are kind of shifting to,
Josh Arnone (12:11):
yeah, just subscription based, and it's kind of universal, and going to be universal having that server based program, you know, there's, costs associated with that too, if, if you're going to be using a Dentrix, well, you have to have a Dentrix support plan too. That's going to be an ongoing cost, and those aren't going to be static over time, but yes, it is going to be an expense. That is, it's going to be a real thing. Obviously, you don't have that hardware. And this
(12:39):
is coming from a person who, if, if you buy aserver, it's better for me. You know, we do, we do sell hardware and computers and servers. So I am not against servers in any regard, but trying to get ready for that future transition where we know it's going to go, I always get the question, if I get a server now, well, can I just go cloud based later? Answer is, yes! You could definitely do that, so you would have that flexibility.
Michael Dinsio (13:05):
But which then you're flushing a server cost a little bit down the toilet, but if you but I guess my thought is, is, if you have multiple practices, I could totally see why cloud makes a ton of sense, right?
Josh Arnone (13:17):
Oh, yeah. Or a lot of remote employees, you know, lot of people like that that those are all, these are all factors that influence the conversation we're going to have around your IT choices,
Michael Dinsio (13:27):
but you led into, like you do, a lot of private practice and a lot of DSO. So that, to me, is the DSO conversations, like, there's a solution for this huge empire, third party billing. I've got multiple offices. Let's just manage this thing all on cloud. That makes a ton of sense to me. Just, but when you're a startup, you have zero patients, zero sales, you're getting up off the ground. I understand that your future vision is 3, 4, 5, 10, practices, great, but you
(13:56):
need one to be successful before you can have two.
So you know, let's say that you need to be in yourstartup for six, seven years before you could even entertain the idea of a second office, unless you just dominate. You know, the cost, the cost of the server over six years and then flipping over to cloud later. It's probably not so bad.
Josh Arnone (14:21):
Yeah, that's a general lifetime of a server. Is right around that year mark too, near five to seven years. So you'd be going through the lifetime of that server. But having a server also does increase costs in other ways.
Michael Dinsio (14:33):
Okay, so let's talk about that.
Josh Arnone (14:35):
If you have that local server in your office, it's going to need to be backed up. Just for HIPAA compliance, you're going to need to have backup services, both locally and remotely in the cloud, which is an expense. And if you're a cloud based and you're using cloud imaging, you never have to worry about backups again.
Steve Anderson (14:51):
again.
Michael Dinsio (14:52):
I thought, I thought you did have to back up some things if you're cloud
Josh Arnone (14:56):
some things. But it is the it's much less intensive, much less costly, to do that with a cloud based system,
Michael Dinsio (15:03):
I see.
Josh Arnone (15:03):
So there are expenses associated with that server that you don't have in the cloud. So those things still tend to balance out on a monthly basis, a cloud program would be more expensive, but it's not as cut and dry as there's no... nothing ongoing with the server and then all ongoing with the cloud. There is ongoing things that would need to happen with the server as well, that those costs
Michael Dinsio (15:25):
so in general, over time, would you say they're probably equal, no matter which decision you go over time, over time, because, because the cloud, you got to remember two way texting, that's a that's a must in today, in modern dentistry,
Josh Arnone (15:40):
oh yeah,
Michael Dinsio (15:41):
Scheduling online, that's a must. Forms online, that's a must. I mean, covid changed everything. So if you have all of these extra bells and whistles that cloud services are offering, you're getting into some of those higher expenses subscription based, as you called it. So that's more expensive than server, but server investment initially is higher. Am I? Am I explaining that right?
Josh Arnone (16:09):
Yes. So the you're explaining exactly right, and depending on the software stack you're using, like, let's say you're bought a server. You're using Open Dental, and you're traditionally running that office, as usually happens. But then, you know, you tag on using Flex and Flex books, and let's say you're using Weave, and then you have your your software's cost has just gone up, you know, three or four fold. Yeah, yeah, okay, what would that have cost with something that has
(16:39):
a lot of those solutions built in if you're usinga Curve hero, let's say yeah. What is that going to be per month versus what your software stack is?
Michael Dinsio (16:46):
Yeah.
Josh Arnone (16:47):
Plus you have one platform. So there's pros and cons, and if you're running a tough decision, if you're running a slim shop that you know, you don't have to have those third party (softwares). But to your point now you kind of do you need to have your paperless forms and texting and these services are a expectation and a must. So I am weighing those costs out. And honestly, if someone asked me, Hey, how much does Fuse cost a month? I don't know. I'm not sure how much it
(17:13):
costs a month.
Unknown (17:14):
And so you're gonna
Steve Anderson (17:15):
find
Michael Dinsio (17:15):
And by the way, over time, there's gonna be more and more and more and more and more. There's gonna be, like 100 options on the cloud eventually.
Josh Arnone (17:23):
Oh yeah.
Michael Dinsio (17:23):
And there's like three options today, in my opinion, that are good. And we both know what those three options are, Dentrix Equalssoft, Open, Dental.
Unknown (17:33):
You know, it's it's good. It's gonna change everything. It's gonna be super interesting. But all right, let's pivot. I feel like we exhausted that one a little bit. We only have so much time. But thank you for breaking that down. It's a very complex conversation. I don't think the Facebook forums folks or even just this podcast today is going to give you the answer that you're looking for. Bottom line, it's very it's very specific to your needs. You have to
(18:01):
understand what you're trying to do with yourpatient experience. You have to understand the biggest picture possible for the future and today, and then you got to weigh all those costs. But I just get startups, clients, that are just get so myopic about cost, and they think that cloud's the option, and it's funny, because it's that's not, that's not a simple answer for from a cost perspective. So that's actually, that's the flip. That's the next question. Okay, so cost, costs
(18:30):
have gone up, man, in the IT world, and it's notbecause of, oh, maybe it's your labor. Everybody's labor is more expensive. But that's probably a small factor. What the hell is going on like the the quotes two years ago, for a startup straight out of the out of the woodwork.
Michael Dinsio (18:47):
Today, it's a solid 5,000, maybe even $8,000, more a total project, computing the whole the whole gamut. What's going on? Why?
Josh Arnone (18:58):
I think that there's a couple things that impact that number one, there is soft costs like travel that right now are just so high., and having that specialized labor that, like we have to fly in, which we, you know, we have traveling techs that travel the country every week of the year. And God bless the guys. They just bust their backs every day.
Michael Dinsio (19:19):
But you guys are competitive. You guys are competitive with local versus not. So
Those those costs still add up, you know? Yeah,let's say a 20% increase in travel costs. Hotels are really expensive right now too, and we're spending a full week that we're going to be at a startup just building out the practice. Other things that I think are driving up costs are things like an expectation of entertainment throughout the office. Now, if I have a worth and if I have an ortho client come to us and just say, Hey, I'm not doing any TVs. I have workstations.
(19:50):
They're going to be a cart side, Chair side, andwe have to do very little entertainment. That's going to be a really effective use of dollar.
Josh Arnone (19:59):
Or they're going to have all the technology, but they don't have the bells and whistles of entertainment that are kind of expected now. What I want is two TV's, TV on the ceiling. I want a TV at the toe of the patient. I want to be able to have all these connected to my computer so I could pull up imaging on the on the toe and on the ceiling. I want to show, let's say one movie simultaneously, out throughout the whole office. These are things that increase costs.
(20:27):
Yeah, okay, so the energy, they're coming more andmore expected.
Michael Dinsio (20:32):
Okay I think they're expected, but I don't think they're necessary for startup folks, I think you need to have some entertainment. But folks, you're not going to compete with with the corporate, the corporate groups that have more money than God, and frankly, your patient experience is going to be so much better than a corporate so you have to weigh that. I mean, in a world where, when we talk about this folks, where lending is constant being stretched, construction
(21:07):
dollars are out of control, equipment has beeneverything is going up. And that's why I'm asking Josh, like, why his costs are going up. It's a perfect example. But just like, you have to cut some places. And so that's really good. So entertainment. So would you say that the average startup, well, give us, like the perfect world, and then give us, what if you had a tight budget, what would you slim down to but still offer some, some entertainment? Does that make sense? Yeah,
(21:36):
what's the what's the middle ground?
Josh Arnone (21:38):
I think that a good middle ground is that, if you're a startup, you're outfitting two or three ops begin with that you do one front desk station, you have your imaging computer, your doctor's office, your two or three treatment rooms. You do one television in each of those treatment rooms, just at the toe of the patient. But it's important that prepare for the future, you want flexibility. So when you're wiring out your office, you have all the infrastructure
(22:05):
there, where, if you want to add those TVs downthe road, boom. Wait till you have some cash flow. Wait till you have a good vision of how you want to implement that, and then you could pull the trigger down the road.
Michael Dinsio (22:16):
Yeah.,
Josh Arnone (22:17):
That's a very competitive cost wise, when it comes to a startup, your technology stack is not going to be a huge cost burden. And if you said, oh, yeah, oh, I want to do my consult room right from beginning. I want another station and sterilization for ordering, those things are going to multiply and add up really quickly.
Michael Dinsio (22:37):
So yeah. So cut sterilization desktop. You don't need it. Go to the OP that you're not using. You have three ops. You probably only need one op in the first or two ops in the first year, technically. So you have another op a workshop to so to your point, six desktops is kind of what I heard. I always say somewhere between five to seven is where I want my my guy, my guys and gals to be
Josh Arnone (23:02):
Yes, absolutely
Michael Dinsio (23:03):
I get these quotes. It's like, nine. It's like, bro, how many computers do you need? And right out of the gate, what are you doing?
Josh Arnone (23:10):
Those are things that like, and I'm not against implementing these things, but budgets are a reality. That's having, having a television that's, you know, a huddle station in your break room for going, you know, having to schedule up and doing educational things. I get how useful that is, and we implement them all the time, but that's a soft cost that I think that you can cut from the beginning and just say this is going to happen later. I've got the bones there to do it,
(23:35):
but why don't I wait a couple months, have somecash flow, and if I really need it, I could get that within a couple weeks, and it'll be done
Michael Dinsio (23:41):
Couple of weeks. Did you hear that? Folks, like, literally, you could call Josh and say, I need another app, I need a TV, I need a desktop, I need this. But boom, Josh puts it in. It's done. Like, why put on that extra expense when you don't need to. The name of the game? Folks, ex banker talking is to break even as fast as possible. So if you're going crazy on your expenses, with your wants and versus needs, you're not going to break even until maybe 18 months. So
(24:13):
then you're not going to be able to quit yourassociate position as soon as you want, and that's what you really want to do. My startups break even in in four, four to five months, because I we are lean and mean and and by the way, some of that is the subscription stuff. Everybody brings me the subscription, subscription subs. And I'm all about efficiency and streamlining, the follow ups and the confirmations and this, that and the other. I'm all about that that's super and fun, but your
(24:41):
front office person and your dental assistant areliterally gonna be sitting on their hands waiting for patients to come. What are they doing all day? Have them confirm, have them call so you know. And by the way, a personal touch is always better than a text message, always 100% All right, I'm getting into stuff.
So, so I love that. What to cut some TVs. Don't gocrazy with the desktops. What about sound? This is always a conversation? Sound like awesome music versus or not? Versus sound and and security, those are two things that are really important. You're based out of New York. I'm assuming if I had downtown New York, I'd want security cameras everywhere, you get what I'm saying. Security and sound, those are two places that people cut if they have to. Walk us through the dangers of that.
(25:35):
Or is that a good idea? I think that sound hasevolved to a point where there's some just really, really value driven solutions out there that can make your life easier, rather than having your traditional you know, I have a volume control nub on the wall. It turns my music up and down in the spaces where I want it to that's going to take, no matter if you have 10 speakers throughout the office or three, it's got a minimum requirement of the stuff that you need, you're going to need a
(26:03):
receiver, no matter what an amplifier, no matterwhat you're going to need, volume controllers. These things are a minimum cost, and they all have to be wired, which is going to be a cost as well in your in your pre wiring phase, which is just going to add to the overall number where there's really great options out there that you can get with smart speakers that might not look that but they're super flexible.
Josh Arnone (26:25):
They are just controlled through your desktop or your phone. They have great sound quality, but you could just add or subtract them and move them around the way you want to. As long as you have the proper infrastructure, you can have a great experience, and it's a fraction of the cost for a full Office.
Michael Dinsio (26:43):
And you could, you could technically put, like, walk me through, like, short term, long term, if someone wanted to go there eventually, is there a way to set up the behind the scenes for some of this wiring, or the empty hubs or whatever, like, is there a way to get there eventually, if you went Sonos or something, and then, and then later on, wanted to wire in. How do you walk people through that
Josh Arnone (27:08):
for sure? All that could be done in the pre wiring phase, you know, we get prepared for a hardwired sound system later on down the road, and hopefully you have drop ceilings in your space as a startup for that flexibility, where that wiring can kind of just be tucked away and waiting to be implemented down the road, everything is there to where you just need some hardware to implement it later on. That this happens a lot with security cameras, where we'll
(27:33):
put the necessary wiring in place with a littlebit of flexibility and a little extra length on wires to make sure that we can put that camera just where you want it, so that way you're not running into that initial cost of, let's say it's $1,000 to get a security camera system with three or four cameras, you could hold off on that $1,000 but you know, later on, let's say you had a great month and you want some cameras, you can pull that trigger, and those cameras can be implemented at
(27:59):
that time pretty easily, just like we talked aboutthe TVs.
Michael Dinsio (28:02):
Yeah
Josh Arnone (28:03):
So those are two things that you could really prepare for. It's just going to be getting those bones of your system ready, which it should be done the right way from beginning anyway, so that's going to be part of just a proper pre planning of incur a little bit of expense during that wiring phase to give you maximum flexibility later on.
Michael Dinsio (28:23):
And I think that's the danger of your industry, for for my clients, is that you could get a slick salesperson to just talk you into all this stuff, and pretty soon you're spending, frankly, 35,000 and and and, you know, it's all it's all warranted stuff like, it's all stuff that you could be talked into. But with proper planning, with Josh and his team, you can get in at a much lower price point and prepare for the future. When you have cash flow and folks,
(29:00):
it's a startup. You have zero patients, zerosales. Why are you building a Taj Mahal? As if you have a million dollar practice, and everybody wants to have a million dollar practice, but the the reality is, if it was that easy to hit a million bucks, don't you think everybody would be doing it? And trust me, they're not and so. And so there's winners and losers in this life, and and absolutely there's, there's, there's losers, and just these little practice hacks I call that Josh
(29:36):
is giving you here. Take that route, but plan forthe future. A Josh who works for a credible company, does a great job. Can prepare you for the future so that you don't have to go crazy on your budget, on the initial, but plan for the future. Okay, last topic, I'm actually running out of time, but we're having a great conversation, and honestly, this could be an hour conversation because of the.
(29:59):
The emails and the calls and the texts and thequestions from my clients about all this stuff, and half the time I don't have the answer, but the the next question I kind of want to take us to is maintenance. So let's go there. I think maintenance is what you really want, Josh, let's be honest, right? You want that client on a maintenance program. Why does Josh want a maintenance program? Because it's residual for him. It's a it's a nice little business to manage,
(30:33):
and if the installs, right, it's fairly easy. I'mjust, I'm just going to be super transparent about it, right? That's, that's his business, but it's essential that you have someone on retainer in case an OP goes down, so you have to do it. And there's different pricing models out there. We don't have to get into cost. But like, what are some things to be aware of about maintenance? Educate us on maintenance. This is like geek squad on retainer. The computer's not working. Josh, get
(31:07):
me up and running. I have patients all day today.Go. Josh,
Josh Arnone (31:10):
yep, this is our, like I had mentioned the beginning. It's our, made in the plane. This is how we have a business. It is monthly support. It was. It's a big need, obviously a growing need, and it's something that just more and more top of mind every day that you see in the news ransomware attacks that before I got into the industry, I didn't think we're a real thing, but we get, you know, probably a call a week of a client that does not ours, saying they
(31:36):
were attacked by ransomware. What can you do tohelp me? And it's always a really difficult conversation, so that's just the cybersecurity part of it, but following along when you're dealing with technology needs for HIPAA compliance, obviously, those things need to be taken care of, and they can be automated to some extent, with, you know, proper management that always comes along with that.
Unknown (31:58):
That is. And we have plans that just outline that, that, hey, we're going to do the minimum, and it's going to be really cost effective for you. But if you need help fixing things, it's just going to be a per 15 minute kind of thing. And if you need that help, because we'll get we'll get clients. Oh, you know what, my my dad handles my it in the office. Well, we only work with dentists, and every one of our technicians are dental specialists.
Josh Arnone (32:23):
So they know all these softwares, they know they know how to every how everything plugs in that. I'm just gonna say your brother doesn't, I promise exactly, and it could save hours of downtime, which for a dental office, that's a lot of revenue. So having that much experience and limiting downtime is something that we really pride ourselves in. But I think a big misconception out there is, hey, I went cloud, your favorite topic, and I went cloud, I don't
(32:53):
really need IT anymore, do I? Well, actually, yes,you still do. The only thing that you really are not needing as much or those backups for your server that are typically needed 100% of the time. So if you go cloud, don't think that I don't need anything now, because I'm cloud based, you know, I have a, I have a support plan of Dentrix Ascend. I should be fine. I don't need it. That is not true.
Michael Dinsio (33:18):
That's just, that's just Dentrix. That's not everything else that you guys handle. And give us a rundown real quick of what you handle, like phones,
Josh Arnone (33:28):
yeah, typically fixing the voiceover, internet phones, sensor issues, CBCT and panoramics, intraoral cameras, you know, things like iteros, doing the all the networking. So that's all your switching and patch panels, your servers, your PCs, sound, sound security, security cameras, your your scanners, your printers, your signature pads, credit card readers. These are all things that are day to day.
Michael Dinsio (33:56):
So Dentrix is one of those things. He just listed 15 ish,
Josh Arnone (34:01):
So we become your vendor managers at that point too. So your front desk isn't scrambling saying, you know, how do I get in touch with mango voice? Our phones are down and I can't call what do I do? What's the number? Just call us. We manage all your vendors. You don't ever have to sit on hold the Dentrix again. You don't have to find out who the point of contact is, that so, so and so, it's just called Darkhorse. They'll be on it.
Michael Dinsio (34:24):
If only you could sit on the phone for Delta Dental and get a fax back. Everybody understands that that works at the front desk. So, yes, so perfect. So what's the strategy around cost. What's a normal thing people should think of? I I've seen people do it by desktop. I've seen people do it by other things. What's the what's the philosophy? And we'll end it on this particular conversation.
Josh Arnone (34:53):
Yeah. So for startups in particular, since we're, you know, gathered around this subject here, we just try to make it really easy and say it's going to be a flat, predictable fee every month. And this is what it's going to be a very good deal. It's going to be very value driven, but it's going to be that way for your first 12 months, so you have, you know, a predictable, uh, cash flow, and that hopefully by the end of that 12 months, you're ready to grow
(35:18):
your your business is doing well. We've beensupporting everything that we need to and it's, and we try to outline very transparently, this is what's included, which is going to cover the vast majority of everything you need. Could there be outside costs? Yes, if you call me and you need another front desk computer that's not included, obviously.
And then the rare instance where we need someonethat would be on site, in your office, that would be something that's just an extra cost, but it is not something that you have to budget for month to month. Yeah, so, and if we try to just be reasonable,
Michael Dinsio (35:50):
and if the install is done effective, then you're going to have less issues later on, too. So there's probably the install and support conversation, which, if you didn't do the install and did the did the service plan, that's going to be probably an interesting conversation, or vice versa, but, but that that's really helpful. So
(36:13):
folks, I, I think I say this a lot on the on theprogram you want to work with people that understand what you're getting into and have created a program around your success. And I say that because Josh just said he gives you a maintenance plan for the first year that's heavily discounted because he appreciates that you're a startup and that you're trying to break even. You have to align yourself with the right partners that understand what you're going through and not
(36:42):
just selling you what they want. That's that's asuper cool thing, and I'm going to tell you right now, like everybody deserves the full price that works with startups. I say that nicely. You guys need so much help, and in a lot of ways, we should be charging double, whatever the prices are. We should be charging you guys double, because it's three times the calls, three times the energy, three like, if a, if a, if a dental office that's been going for 1015, 20 years, they got it. You
(37:18):
don't have to have the same conversations. Theyalready have a system. You just kind of need to fix it. Josh, it's way less time right? Way less time startup. It's like, you guys know nothing, and that's okay. We love you. It's a passion of ours, and and it's, uh, it's, I love it. I love startups because it's just that that's my passion. But I want you all to know that when someone gives you a break like that, that means something that's not a sales pitch. It means something he he should
(37:44):
probably charge double literally, because they'regoing to have double the calls throughout the day. Because you're not sure how things work, where an existing practice has been existing for a long time. So understand that, folks, because I, I feel like sometimes my startups just feel like they're spending so much money. Everything's just whirling around them, and they get a little resentful at the vendors out there that are helping them. Oh, I'm paying him so much money. What the heck.
(38:14):
I promise you, you're a lot more demanding thanthe average client. I want you all to understand that, and so just treat your vendors really respectfully. Sidebar without Josh here, just just understand that it's a love language for us, that we love you guys and we want to support you. So that's really cool program that you're giving, that 12 month program, any last minute words or plugs or things that you want folks to check out. Guys, as always, in the show notes, we're going to
(38:44):
give you Josh's contact information. There's goingto be a website down there. If he wants to offer up a white page or a discount or some promotion, it's going to be down below. But anything else, Josh that you would like, like to bring to my audience?
Josh Arnone (38:59):
You know, we just try to cater to what your specific needs are not going to like. I said, not pushing anybody in any directions. And if I could offer just a piece of advice for anybody, no matter if you're working with a vendor like myself, one of our competitors that are just quality, reputable businesses, don't take it on yourself to try to procure your own hardware
Unknown (39:21):
you're going to pay for it later on. And it's not coming from a bad place. There's just so many, there's so many intricacies to it. So, you know, don't, don't just look at a quote and say, Hey, I found this for $100 cheaper on Amazon. I could save myself easy $1,000 but then you find out when you go to install things that, Ah, man, this does not have the proper operating system. I need Windows Pro. This came home, and then I and it just totally scuttles you, and then you wind up
(39:47):
paying more every time.
Michael Dinsio (39:48):
That's like the we should have led with that Josh that if people get through this whole episode, that's the nugget of the show. I get that a lot to add, some to add before I close this down, to add a little bit. of credibility to that, because you're not, you're not a greaseball sales guy. To add some credibility to that, if there was one thing that that that a client could buy and handle on its own that wouldn't burn them, what would that one thing be?
Josh Arnone (40:15):
I think there's two things all your televisions and if you like the esthetic of a monitor, your computer monitors that are really that what people see. Okay, he said, Go. Go for it. Go for it. Just let us know what it is, so you can properly plan,
Michael Dinsio (40:29):
plan that. See, guys, that's what I mean. Like, don't he gave you a golden nugget. Don't go crazy and do all your hardware. But if you were going to and wanted to save the money, it's not gonna save you that much. But if, you were to do it. Those were the two things he gave us, too. We got a little bonus. Let's shut it down with that. Josh, it was a pleasure. My friend, Darkhorse Tech nationwide, great guys understand dental clearly and have a nice program for
(40:56):
startups that ease you into that maintenance planto help you break even quicker. Josh, thanks so much for being on the show, brother. We'll, cherish this one and get it out to the community.
Josh Arnone (41:07):
Of course, really enjoyed doing this, and thank you for having us on and you know, looking forward to speaking the future.
Michael Dinsio (41:13):
Right on, brother. All right. With that being said, let's, let's shut this down. Thank you guys. Talk to you soon.
Unknown (41:22):
You
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