October 1, 2024 • 54 mins
In the debut episode of "Designated," host Yaya Jata Fanuise shines a spotlight on Tigran Gambaryan, a former IRS special agent and financial crime fighter unjustly imprisoned in Nigeria for over seven months. Tigran was known for his groundbreaking work in combating cybercrime and cryptocurrency fraud, and his expertise led him to Binance, where he was pivotal in enhancing compliance measures. Tigran was unjustly detained after a meeting in Nigeria regarding Binance's operations, and has remained there for over 200 days. This first installment of a two-part episode features conversations with Tigran's wife, Yuki, Rep. Rich McCormick (R-GA) and Wired’s Andy Greenberg, all advocating for his release. Join us as we uncover the truth behind this troubling case and rally for justice.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:41):
I am having this constant fear of losing Tigeran. Tigran
is innocent, he didn't do anything wrong, and he's suffering
and he needs to come home. And this could happen
to anyone, not just Tigeran. So I think we should
(01:01):
take a stand so this would not happen to anybody else.
I don't want anyone to experience what I'm going through
right now.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I'm Yaya Jata Finusi and this is the first episode
of Designated from the Illicit Edge Network, where we shine
a light on the financial crime fighters and economic warriors
out there and learn how these professionals follow the money
and figure out which illicit financing threats are on the horizon.
Most of these professionals do their honorable work outside the limelight,
and you never know their names until something goes wrong,
(01:43):
which brings me to Tigrin Gambarian. Simply put, Tigrin Gambarian
is an American hero. But right now he's languishing inside
a Nigerian prison unjustly. He's been locked up for over
seven months, over two hundred days, for seemingly no reason
at all. The world needs to know his story. Earlier
(02:03):
in his career, Tigran spent years as a special agent
with the Internal Revenue Service's Criminal Investigations Division. The IRSCI,
as it's called, is one of the world's top law
enforcement financial forensics units. While there, Tigrin was a pioneer
in the US government's efforts to catch cyber criminals worldwide,
(02:23):
especially important during the early days of the illicit use
of cryptocurrencies. For example, Tigrin helped to uncover the corrupt
dealings of other law enforcement officers who were stealing crypto.
During an investigation, he helped track down millions of dollars
worth of crypto from a hacked Exchanged, and he helped
to shut down the biggest online child sexual exploitation network,
(02:45):
all by using sophisticated techniques of cryptocurrency tracing and blockchain analysis.
In fact, he was so good at his job that
he was recruited by the biggest crypto exchange in the world, Finance,
to help clean up their act. At the time, Binance
was under heavy scrutiny by regulators for violating anti money
laundering laws. Wanting to correct its pass Binance searched for
(03:07):
the best and brightest law enforcement officers out there to
help with their compliance issues. Tigrin soon left public service
and applied his expertise at Finance and would soon become
their head of financial crime compliance well. In late February
of this year, after meeting with officials in Nigeria about
Binance's status in the country, he and a colleague had
(03:29):
their passports taken and were detained. The colleague escaped, but
Tigren was sent to one of Nigeria's most dangerous prisons.
So how did this decorated American crime fighter get ensnared
in an international incident where truth and justice seem obstructed
by corruption and greed. We may not be able to
(03:49):
talk to Tigrin directly, but we will do our best
to share his story with you. Over the course of
this two part debut, You'll hear from Tigrin's friends and
former colleagues. You'll hear from a US Congressman, and I'll
also speak with a top executive at Binance, all fighting
for his release and safe passage home. But most importantly,
(04:12):
I want you all to hear from Tigrin's family and
understand his story from those closest to him. So time
to get designated and hear the behind the scenes story
so we can figure out what needs to happen to
bring Tigrin home. Yuki Gambarian is Tigrin's wife of fifteen years.
(04:34):
They have two young children, and all she wants is
to have her husband return home. Courageously, she spoke with
me about living in this never ending nightmare and what
she faces day to day. The pain is real, the
toll on her is great, and you can hear it
in every word. I'm wondering if we could maybe just
(04:57):
start with just how you're doing, How how are you
managing in the midst of all of this.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
To be completely honest with you, I'm not doing well
mentally or physically. Having to manage everything all by myself
has been very challenging on top of worrying about my
husband's tigrans health and well being. So yeah, I wish
(05:29):
I could say I'm okay, but no, not really, I'm
not really okay.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
How has it been affecting you in terms of at home?
What tell us a little bit more about what you're managing.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Well. First of all, I am having this constant fear
of losing Tigran. I am constantly worried about you know,
what if he gets another remote area and die, or
you know, he's having his hair neated disk and if
(06:07):
he gets block cloths from it that could kill him.
What if that's going to happen, or what if something
dangerous happens in the prison. Sometimes I just feel like
I would just never see him again. And those thoughts
are invasive and very crippling, and it makes it hard
(06:27):
for me to just go about my day. But I
have to be functional because I have two young children.
I have to make sure that they're happy and healthy.
I have to make sure they're not behind on any
school works or anything like that. And I have to
keep the household running. I just have to, you know,
(06:50):
maintain the house, and at the same time I have
to I try to engage in media effort such as
as much as possible. So managing all those things while
being under an extreme stress is very challenging.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I can imagine what are the children saying about this situation?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
So it's getting harder and harder to keep things from
my ten year old because, you know, she just keeps
coming to me asking questions such as, why is that
still there? What's happening? And I tell her his the
(07:46):
company he works for is in some sort of legal
trouble and he's there to help or resolve the issue,
and he says she says okay, And then she comes
back to me a few days later and she asked me, so,
what exactly is he doing to help resolve the situation?
And I honestly don't know how to answer those questions.
(08:10):
So that's how my daughter is handling the situation. And
my five year old is pretty much oblivious, but he
does tell me over and over that he misses his
father and he wants him to come home. The other day,
I took them to nearby park and my son saw
(08:32):
an airplane in the sky and he said, Mommy, look
they're an airplane. Is Daddy on that airplane?
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Oh? Well yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
It was heartbreaking. Yeah, so yeah, there are moments like that.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Where are you getting the support to help you through this?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Well, physically, I'm getting a lot of help from my sister.
He lives nearby, so she's been a big help when
I had to go to DC. She was the one
who cared, who took care of my children. And I'm
getting a lot of emotional support from Tigrian's friends coworkers.
(09:17):
They have been very supportive. So yeah, emotionally, I'm getting
a lot of support and I'm very grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Mm hmm. Can you share with us a little bit
more about what Tigrin is like as as a as
a man, as a family man.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
He's a very loving father. He's just he's just naturally
a loving person. He shows his affections very effortlessly, and
that's something I cannot do. So he's the He's the
more loving and affectionate parent in this household. As a person,
(10:03):
it's very giving. He gets joy out of doing things
for others without expecting anything in return. He's also very
loyal to people who he cares about. Yeah, that's that's
kind of person.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
If you don't mind me asking, how did you all
actually meet?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Well, I met him in San Francisco while I was
on a family vacation. We just started talking and we
just hit it off. So after that we had a
long distance relationship for about an year and a half
because back then I was still in Tokyo finishing up
(10:48):
college and he was working in Sacramento. And then after
I graduated, jig and got me a fiance visa and
I moved to the States and we got married. And
that was fifteen years ago.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Wow. Wow, Can you tell us about the moment when
you found out something was wrong with Tigrid in Nigeria?
What happened?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Right? So he left on February twenty fourth, and then
the next day when he got to Abuja, he messaged
me saying that, Hey, I just checked into my hotel.
Everything is fine, wearing the T shirt that you gave
me for Valentine's Day. It's really nice. I like it.
Thank you all right, I'll keep you posted. And after
(11:40):
that message, I did not hear from him for more
than twenty four hours. So during that time, I was
increasingly getting worried. And then around eight pm on February
twenty sixth, I was getting my kids ready for the
bed and I got a call from our family friend
(12:03):
who happens to be another Binance employee. And that's after
not hearing from him for more than twenty four hours.
So the moment I saw my friend's name on my phone,
I just knew that something happened, something bad happened. And
I picked up the phone and he said, Yuki, don't
(12:24):
freak out, but it seems like to hear and has
been detained. And that's how I learned this whole thing.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
And where did you get information about exactly what happened?
Were you able to hear from someone officially? How did
you know what was going on?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Well, I got a call from the US Embassy in
Abuja the next day, but at that time they could
not give me any details because they didn't have any details.
They just told me God Tigran was detained and for
the first five days or so, Tigran was not allowed
(13:09):
to communicate with anyone, no lawyers, no embassy staffs, no family,
no friends, nothing, So I knew little to nothing about
where exactly he was being kept or how exactly he
was being treated, So those initial a few days were
(13:33):
definitely scary.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Was there any thought before he left that something like
this could happen or something unexpected could be possible with
this trip to Nigeria.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Well, he had a trip to Nigeria in early January,
and I believe it's a public knowledge at this point,
but he almost got detained. So this was his second
time going there, so of course I had some concern
about his safety, but he went there because he had
(14:13):
assurance from the Nigerian government that nothing like this would
happen and he would have nothing to worry about. So yeah,
when this actually happened, I was in shock. He was
in shock.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
I believe that first time when he almost got detained
or what was it that happened.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
He and his team attended some meetings and it went
holestyle and they basically told him that they would confiscate
their passports. So Tirian and his team just immediately got
(15:01):
out of the country. So it was a close call,
but they managed to get out before that actually happened.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
And on the second trip you said that he had assurances,
it was he specifically told things would be okay.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
That is my understanding.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yes, you touched on his medical issues. Can you tell
us a little bit more about what's most concerning about
his health condition?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
So there are two health issues he's suffering from right now.
One is his herenated disc. It flared up during this
imprisonment and it's getting worse and worse by the day.
He is in a severe pain twenty four seven. He
cannot walk, he cannot sleep because it hurts so much.
(15:56):
He was even receiving blood dinners to prevent blood cloth
because he's completely bedbound, but the prison stopped giving him
the blood dinners for whatever reason. And he's not receiving
any treatment for his back issue, so it's likely to
cause further complications and possibly affect us mobility permanently. And
(16:21):
the other health issues is this repeated respiratory infection. Is
he's constantly getting infections that now he needs to get
his tonsils removed. But I don't know where or how
this procedure can be done because the prison is not
(16:42):
equipped to provide a procedure like this. I think.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
So has he seen an actual doctor.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
He has seen a doctor at a private hospital when
he had a malaria in pneumonia, and then he also
saw another doctor for his back, and then last week
he saw pominologist because he got another chest infection just
(17:17):
last week. So he does see doctors here and there,
but we need to fight for that because they don't
let that happen easily.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
What has the US government done to intervene that you.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Know of my state representative, Congressman McCormick. He's been very
supportive and I am just fortunate to be represented by
someone like him. And we've also reached out to some
senators and their stoffers and they have been very responsive
(17:55):
and I'm grateful for that. And I also know that
multiple government officials have been reaching out directly to the
Nigerian authorities to raise this issue and then ask for
his immediate release.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Do you have any interaction with the Nigerian government at
all or is it just through US government officials?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Just through US government official I have zero direct interactions
with the Nigerian Kume affords.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Is there? What about the legal representation? Is he able
to consult with the lawyer there?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yes, he has lawyers on the ground, but for a while,
the prison headquarter put a ban on a lawyer of visit.
So he a Tegium was not allowed to have any
legal counsel. The ban seems to have been lifted very recently,
(19:04):
but we'll see how it goes from here on.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
So we're now in we're recording this September twenty fourth.
What's next in his case or his situation that you're
looking towards.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
That is a tough question to answer because I do
not really know how these issues are usually handled. But
one thing I would like to see happen very soon
is the State Department declaring tigrin formally as wrongfully detained.
(19:51):
That is one thing specific that I look forward to.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Question I have is if you can share is how
you're able to get direct updates or communicate? Can you
share how does that happen?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
So I am in direct contact with the State Department,
I have my point of contact, and also I have
my personal lawyers, so they are in regular contact with
various government officials and agencies. That's how I mostly get
(20:36):
any updates and progress.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
What out of this situation. If anything.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Gives you hope, my only hope at this point is
the help I can get from the US government. They
really are my only hope to get Tagran back. I
truly believe that the US government deeply care about all
(21:06):
the US citizens who are detained abroad, and I believe
they have the ability, power and leverages to resolve these
kind of issues. So that gives me a slight hope,
but I got to say it's getting harder and harder
to stay hopeful.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Well, we're hoping that with this program we can bring
more awareness and put more pressure here in the US
and overseas. If there's something that you could say to
the Nigerian government, what would you like to say?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I'm not sure, but I do wonder if they understand
how much pain and suffering their causing. I want under
if they know how many people's lives are getting affected
by their actions. I do wonder if they even care
about those things. You know, I understand that you know
(22:16):
they're having issues with Binance and I and I believe
they can. They can try to resolve those issues however
they want, but they do not need tigrant being held
(22:37):
against his will to do that. They don't need Tigran there.
They can pursue any legal actions whatever to solve this
issue they're having with Binance, but they just don't need
Tigran there. I just want them to drop the charges
against them, and I just want them to just let
(23:00):
him come home to us.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Right now, many in the crypto community, many in the
law enforcement industry, are rallying behind Tigrin. What would you
like to say to the crypto community, the law enforcement
community about Tigrin.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Well, I want them to keep sharing the story, and
I don't want them to forget that Tigran is innocent,
he didn't do anything wrong, and he's suffering and he
needs to come home. I want them to urge the
US government to take more decisive actions. I want them
(23:41):
to raise their voices and let the world know that
what Tigrant is going through every day is a complete
disregard for justice and humanity and this should not be tolerated.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
I agree, Yuki, and you know my thoughts and prayers
are with you and the family throughout all of this,
and we're hoping what we can do to bring Tigrin home.
Is there anything else that you would like to share
or say to the audience watching and listening to this, And.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
This could happen to anyone, not just Tigran, so I
think we should we should take a stand so this
would not happen to anybody else. I don't want anyone
(24:41):
to experience what I'm going through right now.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Thankfully, Yuki has the support of many, and she mentioned
the efforts of Republican Congressman Rich McCormick, who represents the
sixth District of Georgia, where Tigrin and his family live.
He's been at the forefront of the fight for Tigrin's
freedom on Capitol Hill and has been working across party
lines and has garnered bipartisan support in the effort to
(25:05):
bring Tigrin home. Could you tell us how did you
first hear about Tigri and Gumbarian?
Speaker 3 (25:12):
So some constituents reached out that knew him. He lives
in my district. To my attention, that somebody had been
basically kidnapped by the Nigerian government is the way they
put it, and that he's been wrongfully detained. I was
actually at first skeptical because sometimes people claim things that
aren't true or it's a reach. I figured it was
gonna be one of those things. He's going to clear
(25:34):
up in the legal system and we stand by and
keep an eye on it. But then the more we
looked into it, the more I realized how egregious the
conditions really were and how unfair the situation had developed.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Congressman mccorik. We actually talked to his wife, Yuki, and
she did say that you spoke with her. What if
you told Yuki?
Speaker 3 (25:54):
I told him that we're trying our best to get
him out, that we're putting all the leverage we can
on their government, both directly and indirectly, reaching out to
the State Department to have his case elevated to the
highest levels.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Great, I note that she was very thankful of your support.
Can you tell us about the committee resolution that was
recently passed?
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Sure? Well. First of all, just I want to give
credit with quers to Representative french Hill has visited him
in Africa. Also, Brian Fitzpatrick also visited him in there
in Africa. Brian's part of the Intel Committee. French Hill
is part of the Foreign Fairs committed with me and
(26:35):
they both taken special interest. We brought before the Committee
that the State Department elevates this to the high level,
gives him special protection, special rights. It also encourages the
Nigerian government to basically Hannim over the Counsul to allow
him unfettered access to medical care as well as lawyers.
He's not even being treated as well as an average
(26:57):
person who would be arrested Nigeria for whatever. And I
really do think that this is an obvious case of
holding somebody hostage to punish a business that they have
a problem with. That's fine if you have a problem
with the business, but don't take random people hostage in
order to deal with that. That's just not the way
any country should ever act.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
So who here needs to step up? Who are you
calling to act?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Well?
Speaker 3 (27:21):
The state partument, first of all, needs to be a
lot more strong. They need to approach Nigeria with strength,
not just passiveness. If it was their relative relatives, I
guarantee this would be a whole different situation. But what
I've noticed, and I'm not trying to play politics here,
but we've come at this kind of soft cell when
it comes to negotiations. We paid billions of dollars to
(27:44):
get a basketball player back in America, to get someoney
who was accused of I think they try to make
it fair by bringing somebody back who had been accused
of espionage, by paying a billion dollars for that person too.
It's all well good, but it's a precedent where countries
now expect to be paid for people they take, so
of course wouldn't then encourage that same behavior. America has
(28:05):
a tremendous amount of leverage over other country. We have
the largest GDP in the world, We are the largest economy,
we drive the currency, we are the largest military players
in the world. All cards to be on the table.
We should be putting an enormous leverage against Nigeria until
they release him or at least turn him over to
the consul to be treated fairly, that he get a
(28:27):
expedient case with a legitimate charge. He's just being treated
absolutely horribly, and he is an American citizen and that
should be taken very seriously by our government in Nigeria.
He needs to step up to the plate. When I
talked to there and bassed, when I talked to their representatives,
I was very strict and stern on this and said, look,
you guys are taking a huge chance and ruining your
(28:49):
great relationship with the United States by the way you're
treating one of our citizens unfairly.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
And have you heard anything from Anthony Blincoln.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
No, he hasn't come to the table for this or
for his answer to Afghanistan. So he's he's avoiding us
right now. I think he thinks it's partisan. I disagree.
This case specifically is definitely not parsoning. It's great by
Parson support. It was pretty much unanimously passed into the
bill and as great participation by both Democrats and Republicans.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
And we know that in addition to serving the sixth district,
you're also a licensed emergency room physician. What are your
specific concerns about Tigrind's health.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Well, he's got malaria, he's dehydrated, he's had degenerate dis
disease in his back, he's got significant pain. Uh you know,
I don't know if they don't have the ability to
treat him or they just don't wish to. But he's
having a hard time sleeping, walking, just being healthy. In general,
malaria is a horrible disease. Not to mention the depression
(29:52):
anxiety of being separated from your family unjustly, just that's
going to play on you too, and your ability to
heal when you're when you're not getting the right nutrition,
in the right sleep, the right surroundings, you feel like
you've basically been picked on for no reason. I mean
it's really a horrible scenario.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
Form.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
It's a tale us the oldest time, one of the
oldest books in the Bible talks about a gentleman who
has felt persecuted by God because everything was going wrong,
and that's kind of where he's at right now.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
That's a really compelling thought to think about. We know,
as we've talked to people, we've heard that he's persevering,
but that his situation is very bleak. Obviously, as a
public servant, you're a public servant, and Tigrin was once
a public servant. He dedicated so much of his career
to doing good. How should folks in the public sector
see this situation? This is I think bigger than just Tigrin.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Yeah, think about any United States citizen who's taken like
this by what's supposed to be a legitimate government. Now,
we expect it from terras, we expect it from bad
people who'd hold people hostage for money, but we wouldn't
expect it from a friendly government. If this is your
family member, outraged, you'd be sad and you'd be scared.
(31:03):
And I think this is where we just continue to
pray for him, reach out to our representatives, put pressure
on the Nigerian government numbers matter. I hate to see
what's happened to him, But if it was one of
my family members, I'd be going crazy right now. I'd
feel like I'm going crazy, and just cause he's one
of my constituents. But quite frankly, he is an American
citizen and we all need to stick together when it
(31:23):
comes to these sort of things. And I'll tell you
Tigrin is an upstanding citizen. He's never been accused of
oakonon in his life. He was actually an IRS investigator.
This guy, he's done it right and he's a great
family man. So for him to be held like this
is doubly outrageous.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
Congressman McCormick, we commend to you for the work that
you're doing and keeping this at the top of the
awareness on the hill. We appreciate your efforts. We know
his family does. Thank you for everything that you're doing.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
One team, one fight. We won't stop until he's back.
Thanks appreciate you guys in your efforts to make the
it's more public.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
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get in touch and join our next workshop. For several years,
in my work, I've been laser focused on crypto and
illicit finance. I actually briefly met Tigren back in twenty
seventeen at a cryptoconference in the Netherlands. It was around
the same time that Tigrin was in the midst of
an international operation against a major darknet market called Alphabet.
(34:37):
No one has written more about this part of Tigren's
life than Andy Greenberg, an author and senior writer with Wired.
In his book Tracers in the Dark, about cryptocurrency investigations
of the IRSCI, Andy focuses extensively on Tigren, the special agent.
He was able to share with us why Tigren was
so critical to some of the biggest crypto investigations of
(35:01):
the past decade. I'm wondering if we should start at
the beginning with you and your impression of Tigrin, but
maybe just set the scene. Who is ti Grin Combarian?
Speaker 5 (35:13):
Well, t Grin Combarian truly is I would say, the
top federal agents in history by many measures when it
comes to cryptocurrency criminal investigations. He pioneered cryptocurrency tracing as
a law enforce and investigative technique and had a hand
in I would say, most of the biggest cryptocurrency crime
(35:37):
criminal takedowns ever in law enforcement over the course of
his decade long career in federal government.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
And then, so, how did he come on your radar?
How did you deal with him from the beginning?
Speaker 5 (35:49):
Well, I, you know, being the kind of like reporter
focused on the dark side of the Internet that I
am have been always been interested in cryptocurrencies use in
you know, in crime. I covered the silk Row, the
first dark web drug market, very closely. I think I
first met Tigrin in the elevator at the Silk Road trial,
the trial of Ross Olbrich, the so called dread pirate
Roberts who created the Silk Road, the kingpin of that
(36:12):
drug market. And then I was actually on a panel
with him and some I can't remember some events where
I was up on stage arguing that bitcoin still seemed
like if you used it in the correct way, or
use it carefully, you could successfully get away with crimes
and it could be anonymous or to some degree untraceable,
and ti Grin was the one on stage correcting me
(36:33):
and saying, you know, Andy, actually I think that the
cryptocurrency is surprisingly traceable and busting this myth of cryptocurrencies
privacy properties. Although it would take me, you know, almost
a decade in midtally to realize just how right he
was and how wrong I was.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
So how did you how did you come to realize that?
What happened? What did you see Tigrin doing?
Speaker 5 (36:57):
In I RSci Well, around twenty twenty one, I started
writing a book called tracers in the dark, which is
about really the advent of cryptocurrency tracing as a law
enforce and investigated technique. How it turned out that this
thing that so many people believed was untraceable and private
and anonymous Bitcoin, including myself admittedly, turned out to be
(37:18):
the opposite. You know, I would say that the bitcoin
has turned out to be a trap for people seeking
privacy and all sorts of criminals, and Tigrin was the
first person to demonstrate that. I mean, so in twenty fourteen,
the Silk Road had just been taken down. Tigrim was
actually not a major part of that takedown. He was
very junior agent at the time at IRS Criminal Investigations,
(37:38):
but he was sort of itching to be a part
of that case and looking for an inroad into investigating
the Silk Road in the wake of that takedown. And
then he got a tip from cryptocurrency exchange bitstamp that
someone named Carl Mark Force, who happened to be a
DEA agent who had been investigating the Silk Road, was
cashing out hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of bitcoins
(37:59):
of unknown origin. That made Tigrin suspicious, and he had
never believed this myth that bitcoin was untraceable. He looked
at the blockchain, this essentially list of every bitcoin transaction.
And you know, although that list the blockchain is, you know,
only shows how bitcoins are sent from one bitcoin address
to another, he thought, you know, I bet that I
(38:20):
can still trace this money. I can still follow the
coins from one address to the next if I know
the origin and the destination. And so, using the evidence
collected from the Silk Road takedown, he was able to
follow every jump of the coins from address to address
and show that Carl Mark Force had essentially gotten all
this money from the Silk Road, the very site that
(38:42):
he was investigating as the DEA agents. He had actually
Karl mark Force, this DEA agent, been selling law enforcement
information to the Silk Road the dread pirate Roberts as
a kind of mole inside the DEA. Tigrin then found
amazingly that there was a second corrupt agents, Sean Bridges,
who had stolen hundreds of thousands of dollars from the
Silk Road. He traced that money too, and proved both
(39:04):
of these corrupt agents guilt. And you know, this was
remarkable in this sense that not only were there two
federal agents who were corruptly enriching themselves in the Silk
Road investigation. But it was the first time that anybody
had submitted blockchain evidence in a criminal case and proved
someone's guilt, which is what Ticrian did here, and and
sent these two guys away for years.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
So he was basically at the beginning of crypto tracing,
crypto crime fighting. You know. So how did that manifest
in the in the years that followed.
Speaker 5 (39:35):
Well, that was a kind of proof of concept case.
I mean, it was really the first time it had
ever been done, and it was proven without a doubt
at that point that no, bitcoin is not untraceable. In fact,
you can go to prison because of your of the
evidence on the blockchain. But then, you know, t Grin
kind of partnered in a in a sort of odd
couple way with Michael Gronager, who was the co founder
(39:56):
of Chainalysis, the startup that the world's first crypto currency
tracing company, and using Chanalysis technology developed by Michael Gronager,
Tigrin partnered with him to take on the biggest mystery
in the crypto currency crime world of the time, which
was who had stolen six hundred and fifty thousand bitcoins
from Mount Cox, the world's first cryptocurrency exchange. You know,
(40:20):
Mancox had been bankrupted in this mysterious heist, and Tigrin
and Michael together were able to trace that stolen half
billion dollar sum on the blockchain and show that it
had flowed into this mysterious exchange called BTCE, which nobody
knew who hosted, you know, where BTC was hosted, or
(40:40):
who had created it. It turned out that BTCE had
actually been created by the same thieves who had stolen
this money as a means to essentially launder half a
billion dollars of stolen bitcoins. And together Michael and Tigrin
not only solve that mystery, but Tigrin led the takedown
of BTCE, shutting down what had become this kind of
(41:01):
hub for all sorts of cryptocurrency criminal cash outs, that
had become a kind of ATM for the whole crypto
crime community.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
So that was that was a key case. What else,
you know, what else happened? Because I remember I was
getting into crypto around twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen looking at cases,
and I started, you know, learning about different exchanges like BTCE.
But you know, but how did Tigrin sort of become
the center of this sort of these types of investigations
(41:32):
as the years went on.
Speaker 5 (41:33):
Well, that was really just the beginning in some ways.
I think that was the first cases you're saying, you know,
that really got law enforcement's attention and showed that you
could use this new technique of cryptocurrency tracing what it
seemed impossible a few years earlier, as a kind of
investigative superweapon to take, you know, take down some of
the biggest cyber criminal conspiracies in the world. And you know,
soon after that, Tigrin was a part of the investigation
(41:57):
of Alphabet, which had become in the wake of this
soul the biggest dark web drug market, in crime market
in history, ten times the size of the Silk Road
at its peak. Cryptocurrency tracing was actually used to prove
that the Kingdon of Alphabet was Alexander Kaus, this French
Canadian man living in Bangkok. But it was Tigrin who
worked with Chanalysis to again to develop a kind of
(42:19):
secret cryptocurrency tracing technique. It's kind of you know, remain
somewhat sensitive, but I detail it in my book through
a leaks document from Chanalysis where they were able to
find the Alphabet core server in Lithuania, and that was
a turning point in the case that in many ways
made the Alphabet takedown possible, the biggest dark web takedown
(42:41):
in history still to this date by some measures.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
One thing I think you're pointing to is just how
global these cases were. I mean, how did this, you know,
how did these cases become more of an sort of
international affair with different agencies around the world collaborating, And
how was Tigrin involved?
Speaker 5 (42:59):
Well, I mean maybe the most global of all of these,
and in some ways the peak of Tigrin's career in
terms of these cryptocurrency tracing cases at IRSCI was the
Welcome to Video case. And this was, you know, an
even kind of darker layer of the dark web than
drug and cybercrime markets like Alphabet. This was a child
(43:20):
sexual abuse video market where these truly horrific videos were
being sold for cryptocurrency on.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
The dark web.
Speaker 5 (43:29):
And t Grint actually had a breakthrough in that case
that had nothing to do with cryptocurrency. He was the
one who found in fact that Welcome to Video was
leaking the IP addresses due to a misc like a
kind of screw up in how I was using the
tour anonymity software and he could show in fact through
that that the Welcome to Video server was in Korea.
But then, to his credit and to his fellow agent's
(43:50):
credit a I RSci, they weren't content to just go
take down that server. They instead traced every transaction that
they could in this giant network of childlife ploitation to
identify more than three hundreds uploaders and downloaders and hands
on abusers of children around the world, I mean truly,
in dozens of countries around the world, speaking to your
(44:11):
point of the global nature of this, and to pass
out these intelligence packets to local law enforcement in all
of those countries and arrest these hundreds and hundreds of
men who were sometimes you know, involved hands on exploitation
of children. Twenty three kids were rescued in that operation.
I mean it, truly, there is nothing that compares to
(44:31):
it in my knowledge in terms of human impact from
these cryptocurrency tracing investigations. And Tigrin played a giant role
in that one too.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
So I mean you're basically describing, you know, Ti Grin
as someone who is really at the you know, the top,
great reputation, at the top of I don't want to
say top of his game, right, but someone who was
very well respected. Obviously we're thinking about where he is now.
What was the transition? I mean, how did Tigrin go
from I R s C I to you know, to
(45:03):
to Nigeria.
Speaker 5 (45:04):
It's a it's a crazy development. But you know, there's
a reason that Tigrin is the protagonist of my book,
and that is that he was the agent at the
center of so many of these cases. I think he
became a kind of legendary figure, if that's not overstating
it within this crypto crime investigation world. He somehow just
(45:25):
had a hand in every major case, and I think
that's really fair to say. So, you know, just as
I was finishing my book, Tigrin tells me he's retiring
from irs C I and going to work at Finance,
you know, which, of course is like a surprising development
to say the least. I mean, Finance did not at
the time and does not have a great reputation. I
(45:46):
mean maybe that's changed to some degree, but Finance, you know,
of course, we all know now has been involved in
you know, been pleaded guilty essentially to massive amounts of
criminal use of cryptocurrency and money laundering and was fined
you know, four point five billion dollars or so by
the US federal government. But t Grin I do really
(46:06):
believe was recruited to Finance in their attempt to kind
of clean up and go straight. I mean, Finance had
become the biggest cryptocurrency exchange in the world. They no
longer needed, i would say, like to be involved in
criminal activity to bolster their their profits, or to turn
a blind eye to it, to put it, you know, generously.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Sorry to interrupt it, just for the timeline, right, So
when was he being recruited in terms of Finance's you know, livelihood, I.
Speaker 5 (46:34):
Believe this would have been late twenty twenty one into
early twenty twenty two that t Grin was making this
big transition. I mean, some might say going to the
dark side, but I do believe that he was being
recruited and he and he's a principled enough guy in
my reporting that I believe he thought and probably truly
was doing the work at Finance of helping them to
(46:56):
go legit, to clean up this rather dirty operation. And
it was his job at Binance to In fact, he
you know, he helped to recruit many of the other
best and most talented, most historied cryptocurrency tracing investigators in
my book, many of them went to Finance and worked
(47:17):
for him. They had kind of an incredible all star
team and their job, I really do believe, was to
help Finance go straight essentially, like to become a more legitimate,
more law abiding and cooperative with law enforcements cryptocurrency exchange.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
And so so he's at Binance, he is, you know,
he's set up their investigations, their their compliance and all
of that. From what you know, how does he end
up in Nigeria being detained? Right?
Speaker 5 (47:49):
I mean this is still just so mind blowing to me.
But Nigeria, you know, essentially, it seems to me, you know,
after Finance settled with the US federal government and paid this,
you know, billions of dollars in fines, Nigeria essentially was
has said, well what about us, you know, you still
owe us like you haven't settled up with us, like
(48:12):
you exactly you were responsible for tax evasion and money
laundering that involves our country as well. They also, I
think separately, have blamed cryptocurrency and several cryptocurrency exchanges, including
Finance for the devaluation of their own currency, which is,
(48:32):
you know, I'm not enough of an economist to know
who's to blame there, but I you know, I don't
believe that it's Binance's responsibility alone to protect the value
of the naira, the Nigerian national currency. But you know,
I think it's fair to say there was some scapegoating
here and Nigeria essentially summons or invited Finance to come
(48:55):
negotiate some sort of settlements, is my understanding. Tigrin was
invited by the Nigerian governments and this was his job
in many cases, you know, to be the emissary to
government's and law enforcement on Finance's behalf, to come to
Nigeria to work this out. And then I think there
were in fact two trips. On the first trip, the
(49:17):
reporting is that there was a solicitation of a bribe
which Finance declined to pay. Then, you know, kind of amazingly,
I mean, I think this kind of speaks to Tigrin's
sort of bold or even maybe foolhardy courage as an individual.
He returned to Nigeria on another trip. On that second trip,
(49:40):
just days into the negotiations, he was essentially told you're
leaving your hotel. You're now going into this guesthouse where
you will be a guest of the Nigerian government in detention.
His passport was taken from him, and he was essentially
held as a you know, illegally as a prisoner or
(50:00):
you could say a hostage.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
You know.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Tigrin's case is, you know, in the crypto space and
in the law enforcement space, very well known. But I
think some some some of us would say that it's
not getting a whole lot of attention in the media,
at least not enough attention. Why do you think that is?
Speaker 5 (50:18):
Well, you know, in some ways it's a complicated story,
like how do this federal agent end up working for finance?
You know, which is you know, how is it that
this storied crypto investigator, this kind of hero of cryptocurrency
tracing as a law enforcement investigative technique, how did he
end up working for essentially a money laundering you know,
culprits in finance. But I think in some ways it's
(50:40):
a simpler story, like somehow this former US federal agent
and US citizen is being held in Nigeria by the way,
no longer in a guest house, now in jail, being charged,
you know, with crimes that are really entirely the behavior
of his employer and not himself. And I would argue
(51:00):
that he is being held as a hostage as leverage
to make Binance pay or to find a scapegoat for
Nigeria's own inability to manage its national currency. Regardless. You know,
I think it is a relatively simple story that this
American former federal agent and citizen is being held illegally
(51:24):
in Nigeria for crimes that he did not commit, and
deserves to come home, deserves the attention of the US
State Department, the White House, anybody who can provide leverage
to get him free.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
I don't know, this might be a little bit sensitive.
I don't want to get to political here in terms
of international geopolitics, or maybe I do. I mean, we're
taping this, we're talking to others. I mean, what should
be the message to the Nigerian government just from your perspective.
Speaker 5 (51:54):
I, as a journalist, am going to continue to cover
this story. I have not forgotten about t Gran in jail,
and I'm I'm going to cover his case. I'm going
to cover what appears to be a criminal trial in
which he's being tried for things that he did not
do personally, and that the Nigerian government is holding a
US citizen and former federal agents with an incredible service
(52:15):
record essentially illegally from what I can tell, And I
don't believe that, as this case gets more scrutiny from
me and others in the global media, that this will
work out for the Nigerian government. I actually believe, and
I'm trying to remain objective as a journalist here, that
Nigeria is going to lose more than it gains from
(52:36):
this gambit of essentially holding an American hostage. And I
hope that Nigerian officials are starting to realize that now
that this is not going to work out for them,
and that you know, I would argue, I'm not really
in a position to give them advice, but perhaps cut
your losses and let Tigrin go home before this becomes
(52:59):
even more of an embarrassment and a point of shame
for Nigeria.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
As part of this show, I reached out to the
Nigerian government. I asked the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission,
the Nigerian Law enforcement agency that arrested Tigrin to appear
undesignated and tell their side of the story. We did
not get a reply. We should also note that The
New York Times has reported that on his first trip
(53:26):
to Nigeria, Tigrin was told that Binance would have to
pay one hundred and fifty million dollars to the Nigerian
government in order to make their troubles in Nigeria go away.
Tigrin reportedly saw this as a request for a bribe
and reported it to Binance. This may explain why Nigerian
officials are not so ready to talk to us. So
(53:50):
join us next time for part two, we all speak
with Tigrin's former colleagues and a top executive at Finance
to learn more about their efforts to bring Tigrian home.
I'm Yaya Jatta Finussi. This is designated on the Illicit
Edge Network.
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Speaker 2 (00:41):
I am having this constant fear of losing Tigeran. Tigran
is innocent, he didn't do anything wrong, and he's suffering
and he needs to come home. And this could happen
to anyone, not just Tigeran. So I think we should
(01:01):
take a stand so this would not happen to anybody else.
I don't want anyone to experience what I'm going through
right now.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I'm Yaya Jata Finusi and this is the first episode
of Designated from the Illicit Edge Network, where we shine
a light on the financial crime fighters and economic warriors
out there and learn how these professionals follow the money
and figure out which illicit financing threats are on the horizon.
Most of these professionals do their honorable work outside the limelight,
and you never know their names until something goes wrong,
(01:43):
which brings me to Tigrin Gambarian. Simply put, Tigrin Gambarian
is an American hero. But right now he's languishing inside
a Nigerian prison unjustly. He's been locked up for over
seven months, over two hundred days, for seemingly no reason
at all. The world needs to know his story. Earlier
(02:03):
in his career, Tigran spent years as a special agent
with the Internal Revenue Service's Criminal Investigations Division. The IRSCI,
as it's called, is one of the world's top law
enforcement financial forensics units. While there, Tigrin was a pioneer
in the US government's efforts to catch cyber criminals worldwide,
(02:23):
especially important during the early days of the illicit use
of cryptocurrencies. For example, Tigrin helped to uncover the corrupt
dealings of other law enforcement officers who were stealing crypto.
During an investigation, he helped track down millions of dollars
worth of crypto from a hacked Exchanged, and he helped
to shut down the biggest online child sexual exploitation network,
(02:45):
all by using sophisticated techniques of cryptocurrency tracing and blockchain analysis.
In fact, he was so good at his job that
he was recruited by the biggest crypto exchange in the world, Finance,
to help clean up their act. At the time, Binance
was under heavy scrutiny by regulators for violating anti money
laundering laws. Wanting to correct its pass Binance searched for
(03:07):
the best and brightest law enforcement officers out there to
help with their compliance issues. Tigrin soon left public service
and applied his expertise at Finance and would soon become
their head of financial crime compliance well. In late February
of this year, after meeting with officials in Nigeria about
Binance's status in the country, he and a colleague had
(03:29):
their passports taken and were detained. The colleague escaped, but
Tigren was sent to one of Nigeria's most dangerous prisons.
So how did this decorated American crime fighter get ensnared
in an international incident where truth and justice seem obstructed
by corruption and greed. We may not be able to
(03:49):
talk to Tigrin directly, but we will do our best
to share his story with you. Over the course of
this two part debut, You'll hear from Tigrin's friends and
former colleagues. You'll hear from a US Congressman, and I'll
also speak with a top executive at Binance, all fighting
for his release and safe passage home. But most importantly,
(04:12):
I want you all to hear from Tigrin's family and
understand his story from those closest to him. So time
to get designated and hear the behind the scenes story
so we can figure out what needs to happen to
bring Tigrin home. Yuki Gambarian is Tigrin's wife of fifteen years.
(04:34):
They have two young children, and all she wants is
to have her husband return home. Courageously, she spoke with
me about living in this never ending nightmare and what
she faces day to day. The pain is real, the
toll on her is great, and you can hear it
in every word. I'm wondering if we could maybe just
(04:57):
start with just how you're doing, How how are you
managing in the midst of all of this.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
To be completely honest with you, I'm not doing well
mentally or physically. Having to manage everything all by myself
has been very challenging on top of worrying about my
husband's tigrans health and well being. So yeah, I wish
(05:29):
I could say I'm okay, but no, not really, I'm
not really okay.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
How has it been affecting you in terms of at home?
What tell us a little bit more about what you're managing.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Well. First of all, I am having this constant fear
of losing Tigran. I am constantly worried about you know,
what if he gets another remote area and die, or
you know, he's having his hair neated disk and if
(06:07):
he gets block cloths from it that could kill him.
What if that's going to happen, or what if something
dangerous happens in the prison. Sometimes I just feel like
I would just never see him again. And those thoughts
are invasive and very crippling, and it makes it hard
(06:27):
for me to just go about my day. But I
have to be functional because I have two young children.
I have to make sure that they're happy and healthy.
I have to make sure they're not behind on any
school works or anything like that. And I have to
keep the household running. I just have to, you know,
(06:50):
maintain the house, and at the same time I have
to I try to engage in media effort such as
as much as possible. So managing all those things while
being under an extreme stress is very challenging.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I can imagine what are the children saying about this situation?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
So it's getting harder and harder to keep things from
my ten year old because, you know, she just keeps
coming to me asking questions such as, why is that
still there? What's happening? And I tell her his the
(07:46):
company he works for is in some sort of legal
trouble and he's there to help or resolve the issue,
and he says she says okay, And then she comes
back to me a few days later and she asked me, so,
what exactly is he doing to help resolve the situation?
And I honestly don't know how to answer those questions.
(08:10):
So that's how my daughter is handling the situation. And
my five year old is pretty much oblivious, but he
does tell me over and over that he misses his
father and he wants him to come home. The other day,
I took them to nearby park and my son saw
(08:32):
an airplane in the sky and he said, Mommy, look
they're an airplane. Is Daddy on that airplane?
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Oh? Well yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
It was heartbreaking. Yeah, so yeah, there are moments like that.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Where are you getting the support to help you through this?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Well, physically, I'm getting a lot of help from my sister.
He lives nearby, so she's been a big help when
I had to go to DC. She was the one
who cared, who took care of my children. And I'm
getting a lot of emotional support from Tigrian's friends coworkers.
(09:17):
They have been very supportive. So yeah, emotionally, I'm getting
a lot of support and I'm very grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Mm hmm. Can you share with us a little bit
more about what Tigrin is like as as a as
a man, as a family man.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
He's a very loving father. He's just he's just naturally
a loving person. He shows his affections very effortlessly, and
that's something I cannot do. So he's the He's the
more loving and affectionate parent in this household. As a person,
(10:03):
it's very giving. He gets joy out of doing things
for others without expecting anything in return. He's also very
loyal to people who he cares about. Yeah, that's that's
kind of person.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
If you don't mind me asking, how did you all
actually meet?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Well, I met him in San Francisco while I was
on a family vacation. We just started talking and we
just hit it off. So after that we had a
long distance relationship for about an year and a half
because back then I was still in Tokyo finishing up
(10:48):
college and he was working in Sacramento. And then after
I graduated, jig and got me a fiance visa and
I moved to the States and we got married. And
that was fifteen years ago.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Wow. Wow, Can you tell us about the moment when
you found out something was wrong with Tigrid in Nigeria?
What happened?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Right? So he left on February twenty fourth, and then
the next day when he got to Abuja, he messaged
me saying that, Hey, I just checked into my hotel.
Everything is fine, wearing the T shirt that you gave
me for Valentine's Day. It's really nice. I like it.
Thank you all right, I'll keep you posted. And after
(11:40):
that message, I did not hear from him for more
than twenty four hours. So during that time, I was
increasingly getting worried. And then around eight pm on February
twenty sixth, I was getting my kids ready for the
bed and I got a call from our family friend
(12:03):
who happens to be another Binance employee. And that's after
not hearing from him for more than twenty four hours.
So the moment I saw my friend's name on my phone,
I just knew that something happened, something bad happened. And
I picked up the phone and he said, Yuki, don't
(12:24):
freak out, but it seems like to hear and has
been detained. And that's how I learned this whole thing.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
And where did you get information about exactly what happened?
Were you able to hear from someone officially? How did
you know what was going on?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Well, I got a call from the US Embassy in
Abuja the next day, but at that time they could
not give me any details because they didn't have any details.
They just told me God Tigran was detained and for
the first five days or so, Tigran was not allowed
(13:09):
to communicate with anyone, no lawyers, no embassy staffs, no family,
no friends, nothing, So I knew little to nothing about
where exactly he was being kept or how exactly he
was being treated, So those initial a few days were
(13:33):
definitely scary.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Was there any thought before he left that something like
this could happen or something unexpected could be possible with
this trip to Nigeria.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Well, he had a trip to Nigeria in early January,
and I believe it's a public knowledge at this point,
but he almost got detained. So this was his second
time going there, so of course I had some concern
about his safety, but he went there because he had
(14:13):
assurance from the Nigerian government that nothing like this would
happen and he would have nothing to worry about. So yeah,
when this actually happened, I was in shock. He was
in shock.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
I believe that first time when he almost got detained
or what was it that happened.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
He and his team attended some meetings and it went
holestyle and they basically told him that they would confiscate
their passports. So Tirian and his team just immediately got
(15:01):
out of the country. So it was a close call,
but they managed to get out before that actually happened.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
And on the second trip you said that he had assurances,
it was he specifically told things would be okay.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
That is my understanding.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yes, you touched on his medical issues. Can you tell
us a little bit more about what's most concerning about
his health condition?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
So there are two health issues he's suffering from right now.
One is his herenated disc. It flared up during this
imprisonment and it's getting worse and worse by the day.
He is in a severe pain twenty four seven. He
cannot walk, he cannot sleep because it hurts so much.
(15:56):
He was even receiving blood dinners to prevent blood cloth
because he's completely bedbound, but the prison stopped giving him
the blood dinners for whatever reason. And he's not receiving
any treatment for his back issue, so it's likely to
cause further complications and possibly affect us mobility permanently. And
(16:21):
the other health issues is this repeated respiratory infection. Is
he's constantly getting infections that now he needs to get
his tonsils removed. But I don't know where or how
this procedure can be done because the prison is not
(16:42):
equipped to provide a procedure like this. I think.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
So has he seen an actual doctor.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
He has seen a doctor at a private hospital when
he had a malaria in pneumonia, and then he also
saw another doctor for his back, and then last week
he saw pominologist because he got another chest infection just
(17:17):
last week. So he does see doctors here and there,
but we need to fight for that because they don't
let that happen easily.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
What has the US government done to intervene that you.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Know of my state representative, Congressman McCormick. He's been very
supportive and I am just fortunate to be represented by
someone like him. And we've also reached out to some
senators and their stoffers and they have been very responsive
(17:55):
and I'm grateful for that. And I also know that
multiple government officials have been reaching out directly to the
Nigerian authorities to raise this issue and then ask for
his immediate release.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Do you have any interaction with the Nigerian government at
all or is it just through US government officials?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Just through US government official I have zero direct interactions
with the Nigerian Kume affords.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Is there? What about the legal representation? Is he able
to consult with the lawyer there?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yes, he has lawyers on the ground, but for a while,
the prison headquarter put a ban on a lawyer of visit.
So he a Tegium was not allowed to have any
legal counsel. The ban seems to have been lifted very recently,
(19:04):
but we'll see how it goes from here on.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
So we're now in we're recording this September twenty fourth.
What's next in his case or his situation that you're
looking towards.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
That is a tough question to answer because I do
not really know how these issues are usually handled. But
one thing I would like to see happen very soon
is the State Department declaring tigrin formally as wrongfully detained.
(19:51):
That is one thing specific that I look forward to.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Question I have is if you can share is how
you're able to get direct updates or communicate? Can you
share how does that happen?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
So I am in direct contact with the State Department,
I have my point of contact, and also I have
my personal lawyers, so they are in regular contact with
various government officials and agencies. That's how I mostly get
(20:36):
any updates and progress.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
What out of this situation. If anything.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Gives you hope, my only hope at this point is
the help I can get from the US government. They
really are my only hope to get Tagran back. I
truly believe that the US government deeply care about all
(21:06):
the US citizens who are detained abroad, and I believe
they have the ability, power and leverages to resolve these
kind of issues. So that gives me a slight hope,
but I got to say it's getting harder and harder
to stay hopeful.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Well, we're hoping that with this program we can bring
more awareness and put more pressure here in the US
and overseas. If there's something that you could say to
the Nigerian government, what would you like to say?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I'm not sure, but I do wonder if they understand
how much pain and suffering their causing. I want under
if they know how many people's lives are getting affected
by their actions. I do wonder if they even care
about those things. You know, I understand that you know
(22:16):
they're having issues with Binance and I and I believe
they can. They can try to resolve those issues however
they want, but they do not need tigrant being held
(22:37):
against his will to do that. They don't need Tigran there.
They can pursue any legal actions whatever to solve this
issue they're having with Binance, but they just don't need
Tigran there. I just want them to drop the charges
against them, and I just want them to just let
(23:00):
him come home to us.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Right now, many in the crypto community, many in the
law enforcement industry, are rallying behind Tigrin. What would you
like to say to the crypto community, the law enforcement
community about Tigrin.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Well, I want them to keep sharing the story, and
I don't want them to forget that Tigran is innocent,
he didn't do anything wrong, and he's suffering and he
needs to come home. I want them to urge the
US government to take more decisive actions. I want them
(23:41):
to raise their voices and let the world know that
what Tigrant is going through every day is a complete
disregard for justice and humanity and this should not be tolerated.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
I agree, Yuki, and you know my thoughts and prayers
are with you and the family throughout all of this,
and we're hoping what we can do to bring Tigrin home.
Is there anything else that you would like to share
or say to the audience watching and listening to this, And.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
This could happen to anyone, not just Tigran, so I
think we should we should take a stand so this
would not happen to anybody else. I don't want anyone
(24:41):
to experience what I'm going through right now.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Thankfully, Yuki has the support of many, and she mentioned
the efforts of Republican Congressman Rich McCormick, who represents the
sixth District of Georgia, where Tigrin and his family live.
He's been at the forefront of the fight for Tigrin's
freedom on Capitol Hill and has been working across party
lines and has garnered bipartisan support in the effort to
(25:05):
bring Tigrin home. Could you tell us how did you
first hear about Tigri and Gumbarian?
Speaker 3 (25:12):
So some constituents reached out that knew him. He lives
in my district. To my attention, that somebody had been
basically kidnapped by the Nigerian government is the way they
put it, and that he's been wrongfully detained. I was
actually at first skeptical because sometimes people claim things that
aren't true or it's a reach. I figured it was
gonna be one of those things. He's going to clear
(25:34):
up in the legal system and we stand by and
keep an eye on it. But then the more we
looked into it, the more I realized how egregious the
conditions really were and how unfair the situation had developed.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Congressman mccorik. We actually talked to his wife, Yuki, and
she did say that you spoke with her. What if
you told Yuki?
Speaker 3 (25:54):
I told him that we're trying our best to get
him out, that we're putting all the leverage we can
on their government, both directly and indirectly, reaching out to
the State Department to have his case elevated to the
highest levels.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Great, I note that she was very thankful of your support.
Can you tell us about the committee resolution that was
recently passed?
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Sure? Well. First of all, just I want to give
credit with quers to Representative french Hill has visited him
in Africa. Also, Brian Fitzpatrick also visited him in there
in Africa. Brian's part of the Intel Committee. French Hill
is part of the Foreign Fairs committed with me and
(26:35):
they both taken special interest. We brought before the Committee
that the State Department elevates this to the high level,
gives him special protection, special rights. It also encourages the
Nigerian government to basically Hannim over the Counsul to allow
him unfettered access to medical care as well as lawyers.
He's not even being treated as well as an average
(26:57):
person who would be arrested Nigeria for whatever. And I
really do think that this is an obvious case of
holding somebody hostage to punish a business that they have
a problem with. That's fine if you have a problem
with the business, but don't take random people hostage in
order to deal with that. That's just not the way
any country should ever act.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
So who here needs to step up? Who are you
calling to act?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Well?
Speaker 3 (27:21):
The state partument, first of all, needs to be a
lot more strong. They need to approach Nigeria with strength,
not just passiveness. If it was their relative relatives, I
guarantee this would be a whole different situation. But what
I've noticed, and I'm not trying to play politics here,
but we've come at this kind of soft cell when
it comes to negotiations. We paid billions of dollars to
(27:44):
get a basketball player back in America, to get someoney
who was accused of I think they try to make
it fair by bringing somebody back who had been accused
of espionage, by paying a billion dollars for that person too.
It's all well good, but it's a precedent where countries
now expect to be paid for people they take, so
of course wouldn't then encourage that same behavior. America has
(28:05):
a tremendous amount of leverage over other country. We have
the largest GDP in the world, We are the largest economy,
we drive the currency, we are the largest military players
in the world. All cards to be on the table.
We should be putting an enormous leverage against Nigeria until
they release him or at least turn him over to
the consul to be treated fairly, that he get a
(28:27):
expedient case with a legitimate charge. He's just being treated
absolutely horribly, and he is an American citizen and that
should be taken very seriously by our government in Nigeria.
He needs to step up to the plate. When I
talked to there and bassed, when I talked to their representatives,
I was very strict and stern on this and said, look,
you guys are taking a huge chance and ruining your
(28:49):
great relationship with the United States by the way you're
treating one of our citizens unfairly.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
And have you heard anything from Anthony Blincoln.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
No, he hasn't come to the table for this or
for his answer to Afghanistan. So he's he's avoiding us
right now. I think he thinks it's partisan. I disagree.
This case specifically is definitely not parsoning. It's great by
Parson support. It was pretty much unanimously passed into the
bill and as great participation by both Democrats and Republicans.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
And we know that in addition to serving the sixth district,
you're also a licensed emergency room physician. What are your
specific concerns about Tigrind's health.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Well, he's got malaria, he's dehydrated, he's had degenerate dis
disease in his back, he's got significant pain. Uh you know,
I don't know if they don't have the ability to
treat him or they just don't wish to. But he's
having a hard time sleeping, walking, just being healthy. In general,
malaria is a horrible disease. Not to mention the depression
(29:52):
anxiety of being separated from your family unjustly, just that's
going to play on you too, and your ability to
heal when you're when you're not getting the right nutrition,
in the right sleep, the right surroundings, you feel like
you've basically been picked on for no reason. I mean
it's really a horrible scenario.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
Form.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
It's a tale us the oldest time, one of the
oldest books in the Bible talks about a gentleman who
has felt persecuted by God because everything was going wrong,
and that's kind of where he's at right now.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
That's a really compelling thought to think about. We know,
as we've talked to people, we've heard that he's persevering,
but that his situation is very bleak. Obviously, as a
public servant, you're a public servant, and Tigrin was once
a public servant. He dedicated so much of his career
to doing good. How should folks in the public sector
see this situation? This is I think bigger than just Tigrin.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Yeah, think about any United States citizen who's taken like
this by what's supposed to be a legitimate government. Now,
we expect it from terras, we expect it from bad
people who'd hold people hostage for money, but we wouldn't
expect it from a friendly government. If this is your
family member, outraged, you'd be sad and you'd be scared.
(31:03):
And I think this is where we just continue to
pray for him, reach out to our representatives, put pressure
on the Nigerian government numbers matter. I hate to see
what's happened to him, But if it was one of
my family members, I'd be going crazy right now. I'd
feel like I'm going crazy, and just cause he's one
of my constituents. But quite frankly, he is an American
citizen and we all need to stick together when it
(31:23):
comes to these sort of things. And I'll tell you
Tigrin is an upstanding citizen. He's never been accused of
oakonon in his life. He was actually an IRS investigator.
This guy, he's done it right and he's a great
family man. So for him to be held like this
is doubly outrageous.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
Congressman McCormick, we commend to you for the work that
you're doing and keeping this at the top of the
awareness on the hill. We appreciate your efforts. We know
his family does. Thank you for everything that you're doing.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
One team, one fight. We won't stop until he's back.
Thanks appreciate you guys in your efforts to make the
it's more public.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
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get in touch and join our next workshop. For several years,
in my work, I've been laser focused on crypto and
illicit finance. I actually briefly met Tigren back in twenty
seventeen at a cryptoconference in the Netherlands. It was around
the same time that Tigrin was in the midst of
an international operation against a major darknet market called Alphabet.
(34:37):
No one has written more about this part of Tigren's
life than Andy Greenberg, an author and senior writer with Wired.
In his book Tracers in the Dark, about cryptocurrency investigations
of the IRSCI, Andy focuses extensively on Tigren, the special agent.
He was able to share with us why Tigren was
so critical to some of the biggest crypto investigations of
(35:01):
the past decade. I'm wondering if we should start at
the beginning with you and your impression of Tigrin, but
maybe just set the scene. Who is ti Grin Combarian?
Speaker 5 (35:13):
Well, t Grin Combarian truly is I would say, the
top federal agents in history by many measures when it
comes to cryptocurrency criminal investigations. He pioneered cryptocurrency tracing as
a law enforce and investigative technique and had a hand
in I would say, most of the biggest cryptocurrency crime
(35:37):
criminal takedowns ever in law enforcement over the course of
his decade long career in federal government.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
And then, so, how did he come on your radar?
How did you deal with him from the beginning?
Speaker 5 (35:49):
Well, I, you know, being the kind of like reporter
focused on the dark side of the Internet that I
am have been always been interested in cryptocurrencies use in
you know, in crime. I covered the silk Row, the
first dark web drug market, very closely. I think I
first met Tigrin in the elevator at the Silk Road trial,
the trial of Ross Olbrich, the so called dread pirate
Roberts who created the Silk Road, the kingpin of that
(36:12):
drug market. And then I was actually on a panel
with him and some I can't remember some events where
I was up on stage arguing that bitcoin still seemed
like if you used it in the correct way, or
use it carefully, you could successfully get away with crimes
and it could be anonymous or to some degree untraceable,
and ti Grin was the one on stage correcting me
(36:33):
and saying, you know, Andy, actually I think that the
cryptocurrency is surprisingly traceable and busting this myth of cryptocurrencies
privacy properties. Although it would take me, you know, almost
a decade in midtally to realize just how right he
was and how wrong I was.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
So how did you how did you come to realize that?
What happened? What did you see Tigrin doing?
Speaker 5 (36:57):
In I RSci Well, around twenty twenty one, I started
writing a book called tracers in the dark, which is
about really the advent of cryptocurrency tracing as a law
enforce and investigated technique. How it turned out that this
thing that so many people believed was untraceable and private
and anonymous Bitcoin, including myself admittedly, turned out to be
(37:18):
the opposite. You know, I would say that the bitcoin
has turned out to be a trap for people seeking
privacy and all sorts of criminals, and Tigrin was the
first person to demonstrate that. I mean, so in twenty fourteen,
the Silk Road had just been taken down. Tigrim was
actually not a major part of that takedown. He was
very junior agent at the time at IRS Criminal Investigations,
(37:38):
but he was sort of itching to be a part
of that case and looking for an inroad into investigating
the Silk Road in the wake of that takedown. And
then he got a tip from cryptocurrency exchange bitstamp that
someone named Carl Mark Force, who happened to be a
DEA agent who had been investigating the Silk Road, was
cashing out hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of bitcoins
(37:59):
of unknown origin. That made Tigrin suspicious, and he had
never believed this myth that bitcoin was untraceable. He looked
at the blockchain, this essentially list of every bitcoin transaction.
And you know, although that list the blockchain is, you know,
only shows how bitcoins are sent from one bitcoin address
to another, he thought, you know, I bet that I
(38:20):
can still trace this money. I can still follow the
coins from one address to the next if I know
the origin and the destination. And so, using the evidence
collected from the Silk Road takedown, he was able to
follow every jump of the coins from address to address
and show that Carl Mark Force had essentially gotten all
this money from the Silk Road, the very site that
(38:42):
he was investigating as the DEA agents. He had actually
Karl mark Force, this DEA agent, been selling law enforcement
information to the Silk Road the dread pirate Roberts as
a kind of mole inside the DEA. Tigrin then found
amazingly that there was a second corrupt agents, Sean Bridges,
who had stolen hundreds of thousands of dollars from the
Silk Road. He traced that money too, and proved both
(39:04):
of these corrupt agents guilt. And you know, this was
remarkable in this sense that not only were there two
federal agents who were corruptly enriching themselves in the Silk
Road investigation. But it was the first time that anybody
had submitted blockchain evidence in a criminal case and proved
someone's guilt, which is what Ticrian did here, and and
sent these two guys away for years.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
So he was basically at the beginning of crypto tracing,
crypto crime fighting. You know. So how did that manifest
in the in the years that followed.
Speaker 5 (39:35):
Well, that was a kind of proof of concept case.
I mean, it was really the first time it had
ever been done, and it was proven without a doubt
at that point that no, bitcoin is not untraceable. In fact,
you can go to prison because of your of the
evidence on the blockchain. But then, you know, t Grin
kind of partnered in a in a sort of odd
couple way with Michael Gronager, who was the co founder
(39:56):
of Chainalysis, the startup that the world's first crypto currency
tracing company, and using Chanalysis technology developed by Michael Gronager,
Tigrin partnered with him to take on the biggest mystery
in the crypto currency crime world of the time, which
was who had stolen six hundred and fifty thousand bitcoins
from Mount Cox, the world's first cryptocurrency exchange. You know,
(40:20):
Mancox had been bankrupted in this mysterious heist, and Tigrin
and Michael together were able to trace that stolen half
billion dollar sum on the blockchain and show that it
had flowed into this mysterious exchange called BTCE, which nobody
knew who hosted, you know, where BTC was hosted, or
(40:40):
who had created it. It turned out that BTCE had
actually been created by the same thieves who had stolen
this money as a means to essentially launder half a
billion dollars of stolen bitcoins. And together Michael and Tigrin
not only solve that mystery, but Tigrin led the takedown
of BTCE, shutting down what had become this kind of
(41:01):
hub for all sorts of cryptocurrency criminal cash outs, that
had become a kind of ATM for the whole crypto
crime community.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
So that was that was a key case. What else,
you know, what else happened? Because I remember I was
getting into crypto around twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen looking at cases,
and I started, you know, learning about different exchanges like BTCE.
But you know, but how did Tigrin sort of become
the center of this sort of these types of investigations
(41:32):
as the years went on.
Speaker 5 (41:33):
Well, that was really just the beginning in some ways.
I think that was the first cases you're saying, you know,
that really got law enforcement's attention and showed that you
could use this new technique of cryptocurrency tracing what it
seemed impossible a few years earlier, as a kind of
investigative superweapon to take, you know, take down some of
the biggest cyber criminal conspiracies in the world. And you know,
soon after that, Tigrin was a part of the investigation
(41:57):
of Alphabet, which had become in the wake of this
soul the biggest dark web drug market, in crime market
in history, ten times the size of the Silk Road
at its peak. Cryptocurrency tracing was actually used to prove
that the Kingdon of Alphabet was Alexander Kaus, this French
Canadian man living in Bangkok. But it was Tigrin who
worked with Chanalysis to again to develop a kind of
(42:19):
secret cryptocurrency tracing technique. It's kind of you know, remain
somewhat sensitive, but I detail it in my book through
a leaks document from Chanalysis where they were able to
find the Alphabet core server in Lithuania, and that was
a turning point in the case that in many ways
made the Alphabet takedown possible, the biggest dark web takedown
(42:41):
in history still to this date by some measures.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
One thing I think you're pointing to is just how
global these cases were. I mean, how did this, you know,
how did these cases become more of an sort of
international affair with different agencies around the world collaborating, And
how was Tigrin involved?
Speaker 5 (42:59):
Well, I mean maybe the most global of all of these,
and in some ways the peak of Tigrin's career in
terms of these cryptocurrency tracing cases at IRSCI was the
Welcome to Video case. And this was, you know, an
even kind of darker layer of the dark web than
drug and cybercrime markets like Alphabet. This was a child
(43:20):
sexual abuse video market where these truly horrific videos were
being sold for cryptocurrency on.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
The dark web.
Speaker 5 (43:29):
And t Grint actually had a breakthrough in that case
that had nothing to do with cryptocurrency. He was the
one who found in fact that Welcome to Video was
leaking the IP addresses due to a misc like a
kind of screw up in how I was using the
tour anonymity software and he could show in fact through
that that the Welcome to Video server was in Korea.
But then, to his credit and to his fellow agent's
(43:50):
credit a I RSci, they weren't content to just go
take down that server. They instead traced every transaction that
they could in this giant network of childlife ploitation to
identify more than three hundreds uploaders and downloaders and hands
on abusers of children around the world, I mean truly,
in dozens of countries around the world, speaking to your
(44:11):
point of the global nature of this, and to pass
out these intelligence packets to local law enforcement in all
of those countries and arrest these hundreds and hundreds of
men who were sometimes you know, involved hands on exploitation
of children. Twenty three kids were rescued in that operation.
I mean it, truly, there is nothing that compares to
(44:31):
it in my knowledge in terms of human impact from
these cryptocurrency tracing investigations. And Tigrin played a giant role
in that one too.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
So I mean you're basically describing, you know, Ti Grin
as someone who is really at the you know, the top,
great reputation, at the top of I don't want to
say top of his game, right, but someone who was
very well respected. Obviously we're thinking about where he is now.
What was the transition? I mean, how did Tigrin go
from I R s C I to you know, to
(45:03):
to Nigeria.
Speaker 5 (45:04):
It's a it's a crazy development. But you know, there's
a reason that Tigrin is the protagonist of my book,
and that is that he was the agent at the
center of so many of these cases. I think he
became a kind of legendary figure, if that's not overstating
it within this crypto crime investigation world. He somehow just
(45:25):
had a hand in every major case, and I think
that's really fair to say. So, you know, just as
I was finishing my book, Tigrin tells me he's retiring
from irs C I and going to work at Finance,
you know, which, of course is like a surprising development
to say the least. I mean, Finance did not at
the time and does not have a great reputation. I
(45:46):
mean maybe that's changed to some degree, but Finance, you know,
of course, we all know now has been involved in
you know, been pleaded guilty essentially to massive amounts of
criminal use of cryptocurrency and money laundering and was fined
you know, four point five billion dollars or so by
the US federal government. But t Grin I do really
(46:06):
believe was recruited to Finance in their attempt to kind
of clean up and go straight. I mean, Finance had
become the biggest cryptocurrency exchange in the world. They no
longer needed, i would say, like to be involved in
criminal activity to bolster their their profits, or to turn
a blind eye to it, to put it, you know, generously.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Sorry to interrupt it, just for the timeline, right, So
when was he being recruited in terms of Finance's you know, livelihood, I.
Speaker 5 (46:34):
Believe this would have been late twenty twenty one into
early twenty twenty two that t Grin was making this
big transition. I mean, some might say going to the
dark side, but I do believe that he was being
recruited and he and he's a principled enough guy in
my reporting that I believe he thought and probably truly
was doing the work at Finance of helping them to
(46:56):
go legit, to clean up this rather dirty operation. And
it was his job at Binance to In fact, he
you know, he helped to recruit many of the other
best and most talented, most historied cryptocurrency tracing investigators in
my book, many of them went to Finance and worked
(47:17):
for him. They had kind of an incredible all star
team and their job, I really do believe, was to
help Finance go straight essentially, like to become a more legitimate,
more law abiding and cooperative with law enforcements cryptocurrency exchange.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
And so so he's at Binance, he is, you know,
he's set up their investigations, their their compliance and all
of that. From what you know, how does he end
up in Nigeria being detained? Right?
Speaker 5 (47:49):
I mean this is still just so mind blowing to me.
But Nigeria, you know, essentially, it seems to me, you know,
after Finance settled with the US federal government and paid this,
you know, billions of dollars in fines, Nigeria essentially was
has said, well what about us, you know, you still
owe us like you haven't settled up with us, like
(48:12):
you exactly you were responsible for tax evasion and money
laundering that involves our country as well. They also, I
think separately, have blamed cryptocurrency and several cryptocurrency exchanges, including
Finance for the devaluation of their own currency, which is,
(48:32):
you know, I'm not enough of an economist to know
who's to blame there, but I you know, I don't
believe that it's Binance's responsibility alone to protect the value
of the naira, the Nigerian national currency. But you know,
I think it's fair to say there was some scapegoating
here and Nigeria essentially summons or invited Finance to come
(48:55):
negotiate some sort of settlements, is my understanding. Tigrin was
invited by the Nigerian governments and this was his job
in many cases, you know, to be the emissary to
government's and law enforcement on Finance's behalf, to come to
Nigeria to work this out. And then I think there
were in fact two trips. On the first trip, the
(49:17):
reporting is that there was a solicitation of a bribe
which Finance declined to pay. Then, you know, kind of amazingly,
I mean, I think this kind of speaks to Tigrin's
sort of bold or even maybe foolhardy courage as an individual.
He returned to Nigeria on another trip. On that second trip,
(49:40):
just days into the negotiations, he was essentially told you're
leaving your hotel. You're now going into this guesthouse where
you will be a guest of the Nigerian government in detention.
His passport was taken from him, and he was essentially
held as a you know, illegally as a prisoner or
(50:00):
you could say a hostage.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
You know.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Tigrin's case is, you know, in the crypto space and
in the law enforcement space, very well known. But I
think some some some of us would say that it's
not getting a whole lot of attention in the media,
at least not enough attention. Why do you think that is?
Speaker 5 (50:18):
Well, you know, in some ways it's a complicated story,
like how do this federal agent end up working for finance?
You know, which is you know, how is it that
this storied crypto investigator, this kind of hero of cryptocurrency
tracing as a law enforcement investigative technique, how did he
end up working for essentially a money laundering you know,
culprits in finance. But I think in some ways it's
(50:40):
a simpler story, like somehow this former US federal agent
and US citizen is being held in Nigeria by the way,
no longer in a guest house, now in jail, being charged,
you know, with crimes that are really entirely the behavior
of his employer and not himself. And I would argue
(51:00):
that he is being held as a hostage as leverage
to make Binance pay or to find a scapegoat for
Nigeria's own inability to manage its national currency. Regardless. You know,
I think it is a relatively simple story that this
American former federal agent and citizen is being held illegally
(51:24):
in Nigeria for crimes that he did not commit, and
deserves to come home, deserves the attention of the US
State Department, the White House, anybody who can provide leverage
to get him free.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
I don't know, this might be a little bit sensitive.
I don't want to get to political here in terms
of international geopolitics, or maybe I do. I mean, we're
taping this, we're talking to others. I mean, what should
be the message to the Nigerian government just from your perspective.
Speaker 5 (51:54):
I, as a journalist, am going to continue to cover
this story. I have not forgotten about t Gran in jail,
and I'm I'm going to cover his case. I'm going
to cover what appears to be a criminal trial in
which he's being tried for things that he did not
do personally, and that the Nigerian government is holding a
US citizen and former federal agents with an incredible service
(52:15):
record essentially illegally from what I can tell, And I
don't believe that, as this case gets more scrutiny from
me and others in the global media, that this will
work out for the Nigerian government. I actually believe, and
I'm trying to remain objective as a journalist here, that
Nigeria is going to lose more than it gains from
(52:36):
this gambit of essentially holding an American hostage. And I
hope that Nigerian officials are starting to realize that now
that this is not going to work out for them,
and that you know, I would argue, I'm not really
in a position to give them advice, but perhaps cut
your losses and let Tigrin go home before this becomes
(52:59):
even more of an embarrassment and a point of shame
for Nigeria.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
As part of this show, I reached out to the
Nigerian government. I asked the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission,
the Nigerian Law enforcement agency that arrested Tigrin to appear
undesignated and tell their side of the story. We did
not get a reply. We should also note that The
New York Times has reported that on his first trip
(53:26):
to Nigeria, Tigrin was told that Binance would have to
pay one hundred and fifty million dollars to the Nigerian
government in order to make their troubles in Nigeria go away.
Tigrin reportedly saw this as a request for a bribe
and reported it to Binance. This may explain why Nigerian
officials are not so ready to talk to us. So
(53:50):
join us next time for part two, we all speak
with Tigrin's former colleagues and a top executive at Finance
to learn more about their efforts to bring Tigrian home.
I'm Yaya Jatta Finussi. This is designated on the Illicit
Edge Network.
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