July 30, 2025 • 25 mins
What if desire shows up before we even have the words for it? In this episode, we explore how desire first emerges - not as a clear thought, but as a whisper, a spark, a sensation in the body. Long before we can name it, it’s already speaking to us.
We share personal stories (including Brenda’s not-actually-about-the-beach vacation dilemma) to show how subtle desires, when ignored, often morph into resentment. In a world that trains us to focus on problems rather than possibility, we rarely ask: What do I truly want?
Together, we unpack what it means to become responsible for your desires—not just chasing outcomes, but tuning into the deeper need beneath the surface. Sometimes the real craving isn’t “no more beach trips,” but “I need novelty,” “I want freedom,” or “I’m longing for adventure.”
Desire isn’t a luxury—it’s a compass. And the practice of listening to it can reshape your relationship with yourself and everyone around you.
Episode Highlights
- Desire often arrives as a body-based knowing before we have language for it
- Suppressed desire doesn’t vanish—it turns into frustration or resentment
- Our culture prioritizes problems over possibility, making desire hard to access
- Being “responsible” for your desire means understanding the deeper why beneath a want
- Desire is rarely about the outcome—it’s about the feeling we're seeking
- Tools like desire lists help build clarity and self-awareness
- Small acts of fulfillment grow the muscle of self-trust and inner wisdom
- The key question to return to: “What am I really longing for?”
🎧 If this episode resonates, share it with someone who’s ready to want more from life.
💬 Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and send a screenshot—we love hearing how these conversations land for you.
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If you'd like to learn more about 1:1 or group coaching with Brenda or Catherine message them and book a Sales Call to learn more.
Email:
desireasmedicine@gmail.com
goddessbrenda24@gmail.com
catherine@catherinenavarro.com
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@desireasmedicinepodcast
@Brenda_Fredericks
@CoachCatherineN
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Desire is Medicine.
We are two very different womenliving a life led by desire.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Inviting you into our world.
I'm Brenda.
I'm a devoted practitioner tobeing my fully expressed true
self in my daily life,motherhood relationships and my
business Desire has taken me onquite a ride and every day I
practice listening to andfollowing the voice within.
I'm a middle school teacherturned coach and guide of the
(00:35):
feminine.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the
truest and hopefully thehighest version of me.
I don't have children, I'venever been married.
I've spent equal parts of mylife in corporate as in some
down and low shady spaces.
I was the epitome of tired andwired and my path led me to
explore desire.
I'm a coach, guide, energyworker and a forever student.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Even after decades of inner work, we are humble
beginners on the mat, stillexploring, always curious.
We believe that listening toand following the nudge of
desire is a deep spiritualpractice that helps us grow.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
On the Desires Medicine podcast.
We talk to each other, weinterview people we know and
love about the practice ofdesire, bringing in a very
important piece that is oftenoverlooked being responsible for
our desire.
Welcome back family, friends,listeners so excited to be here
with the lovely Brenda and, ofcourse, all of you.
(01:33):
I'm so grateful that you takethe time out to listen, that you
take the time to write.
We love hearing from you.
The first eight episodes ofDesire is Medicine are basically
a course.
Brenda and I sat down and wewere like what are the pillars,
like the things that aremust-knows, must-haves in order
(01:59):
for us to be able to feel intoour desires.
And as part of our 100thepisode celebration, we decided
to sit with what's showing up inthe field for us.
And one of the things that we'vebeen sitting with is how do you
feel desire before you actuallyfeel desire?
Like, how do you know thatyou're feeling desire?
Is it turn on?
(02:22):
Is it sex?
It's so layered, it'sabsolutely so.
So layered Because it couldvary, I think, with us
culturally, personally,relationally, the rules we set
for ourselves, all the shouldsthat we have, how we think or
(02:44):
imagine it should feel Like Ishould know what I want to eat.
Whenever I go out, I should knowexactly what my taste buds are
calling for.
I should know the nutrition Ineed.
I should be able to pick theperfect partner that I'm going
to be with forever and ever.
I should have found the exactbest friends we could shit on
ourselves or really be with.
(03:06):
What does a desire feel like?
So, on this episode, brenda andI are going to feel and do our
best to tap back in to what itfelt like before.
We actually knew desire, and Ithink Brenda has some good
insight here.
So I'm going to invite Brendato unmute and share.
(03:26):
What was it like for you?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Hello everybody, great to be here.
Wow, what was it like before Istarted studying desire?
I think that, first of all,it's important to say that our
culture has a mixed idea of whatdesire even means.
When we think about desire, wethink about sex, and there's so
much more to desire than justsex, and so anytime I thought
(03:53):
about desire, I really justthought about sex, which meant
that I didn't talk about it,because we also don't talk about
these things.
I think I had a relationshipwith desire before I was really
tapped into what that means.
Because here I am, I got here.
I've been studying desire formaybe 18 years, which is quite a
(04:15):
while, but I lived 40 yearsbefore that and I certainly had
some beautiful things in my lifeand had some beautiful
experiences.
So I must have felt desireright Before I even really knew
what it was.
And I think when I feel intodesire, it's like oh, it's
(04:35):
something that just shows up forme, like you said, an
excitement or an idea or a spark, or an idea or a spark Before I
was even in tune with my body.
It would show up as like aknowing or an idea or like where
do these things come from?
Right, like we're always inrelationship with the universe
(04:57):
and sometimes something willjust hit you and you're like, oh
my God, I want that.
Sometimes it's in response tothe world, like maybe you're
window shopping and you see adress and you're like, oh my God
, I want that.
Sometimes it's in response tothe world.
Like maybe you're windowshopping and you see a dress and
you're like, oh my God, I wantthat dress.
Right, that's a really obviousexample.
But what about when it's notobvious?
What if you're just at work,living your best life, making a
(05:17):
grocery list, and all of asudden you're like, oh my God,
there's this thing that I want.
I really want X, y, z, whateverit is.
Like, where did that come from?
I think it just comes fromco-creating with the universe,
but for me it landed in my body.
It's like something that I canfeel and then something that I
(05:38):
could respond to.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
I love the story that you're sharing, so I want to
stay with you for a second.
And you studied desire for 18years, and before that you
hadn't.
And you're saying it would landin your body.
So did you?
Were you experiencing thisbefore you knew what desire was
Like?
Clearly, we're experiencingdesire before we know, and is
(06:02):
that what you're saying?
Or was it before we know?
And is that what?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
you're saying, or was it?
Is it more nuanced?
I would definitely experiencedesire.
I mean, there were things thatI wanted.
I wanted to get married, Iwanted a house, I wanted
children, I wanted to go toMexico.
You know, I wanted XYZ.
There were a lot of things thatI wanted.
I wanted that car, right, and Iwanted that house, and, oh, I
really want rollerblades, yeah.
(06:28):
So so I definitely had anexperience with desire of oh, I
want these things.
Very often for me it's inresponse to the universe, like,
specifically, the rollerblades.
A friend of mine who I taughtwith bought these great
rollerblades and she would betalking about rollerblading all
the time and I just got reallyturned on by her desire.
(06:49):
I was like I want rollerblades.
So these were back in the eBaydays.
So she went on eBay, she got mea pair of rollerblades and that
was it.
I was rollerblading for areally long time after that, but
it was in response to herenjoying that desire that I was
able to feel the stirring of myown desire.
Oh, my god, I just have so manygreat memories of rollerblading
(07:13):
down, you know, the road to thebeach where I lived and just
being in complete flow and justfeeling one with the universe.
That was really amazing.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Thanks so much.
I love that.
I love the example of beingaround people who are doing
something and it sort of pops inour mind and we go, oh, I want
to do that.
I also want to make space forwhen we feel a desire, that
sometimes we choose not to do it.
(07:46):
I would love to skydive, but Iwould love to skydive with an
instructor, and if I alreadytook a skydive lesson, I
wouldn't necessarily want to beon an airplane where they're
like all right, catherine, it'stime for you to jump now.
I have the desire to do it andI thought about the action
(08:06):
required behind the desire.
But I'm not going to do it justwilly nilly.
It's under certaincircumstances, like with certain
safety nets, and I think thisis a great time to talk about
withholding.
We have a whole episode on thatbut sometimes we're so afraid
to feel a desire because wedon't want to not do it, we
(08:28):
don't want to not go after it,like.
All the examples you gave weregreat.
They're like you're goingrollerblading and you want the
house, the husband, the children.
It's super tangible.
But what happens when we have adesire for something?
You spoke about this veryrecently.
One of Brenda's students had adesire for a yoga studio, and
(08:49):
it's not about having the studio.
I don't want to go too far off.
Today we're talking about howdo we know we have desire and
we're tapping into it beforewe're actually using the word
desire, before we have the sortof airmark or the flag in the
ground.
Oh, I know exactly what desirefeels like.
In my body, desire is somewhatlike a goal, like I want a house
(09:12):
or I want that car, I wantthese rollerblades, and
sometimes it's not so easy.
We have a desire and we can'tjust go to the bakery store and
buy that croissant that we'recraving.
Sometimes it's somethingdifferent.
Maybe it means that I have adesire to be the sort of woman
that says no really easily, andthen, potentially, I may not
(09:34):
know how to say no.
And then now, all of a sudden,I don't want to feel into what
it feels like to be a woman thatdoesn't know how to say no, for
example.
It can become so complicated.
Do you see what I'm pointing toBrendaa?
Like, can you talk?
Yeah, what comes up for youaround that?
Speaker 2 (09:49):
these are really great examples.
Oh, my god, I have so manythoughts.
It feels like, in a way, whatyou're talking about is being
responsible for your desire.
You know when you're like, oh,I want to go skydiving, but I
only want, I want to be safe, Iwant it to be fun and I'm only
going to do it under thesecircumstances.
You know, there was a timebefore I studied desire where a
(10:10):
flood bank started opening forwhat I wanted in my life and I
was like, oh, I just need tofollow all of these things and
while that was very fun, I don'tknow that it was the most
responsible thing and Icertainly don't do that anymore.
You know, now I take intoaccount well, you mentioned
(10:37):
safety, right, safety capacity,impact and really slowing down
and asking myself can I do this?
When can I do this?
Is this something that I reallywant?
Or, you know, just exploring it, and I think that's being
responsible for our desire want,or, you know, just exploring it
, and I think that's beingresponsible for our desire.
You know, we can have everythingthat we want in our life, but
maybe not all at the same time.
(10:57):
Right, there is aresponsibility of it's the other
side of the coin of like whimsy.
Like when I started out thisjourney, I felt starved.
I deprived myself of desire ina lot of ways, I deprived myself
of what I wanted, and it filledup like a bottle and then it
was started exploding outbecause I had ignored it for so
(11:19):
long.
And then I was like, well, I'mjust going to give myself
absolutely everything at thebuffet.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Can we slow down and talk about that version of you,
the version of you that wasn'twilling to give yourself what
you desired?
Do you have, like, apolitically correct way of
touching on it, like, are youwilling to share something so
that somebody potentiallylistening is like oh, I feel
that I know what that looks like.
Is it because you were like amom and as a mom, you can't do
(11:48):
this when you have children?
Or yes, what versions wereshowing up for you?
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I mean there's a lot of different versions.
The story just comes up rightnow this experience that I had.
We used to go on summervacation every summer with my
husband and the kids when I wasmarried, and we used to do a
particular kind of vacation.
We would go to a beach, wewould go to Cancun or we'd go to
(12:13):
Dominican Republic or somethingreally fun like that.
It was like some kind of beachvacation.
And I grew tired of that and Iwanted something different, and
so I tried to communicate thatto my partner at the time.
There's so many other thingsthat we could do.
Like I had a desire I didn'tquite know what it was, but had
desire for something differentand he just wouldn't hear it.
He was just like what, what doyou mean?
(12:34):
We're not going to go on abeach vacation.
And I didn't quite have theskills or the self-awareness to
be like, hey, something's comingup for me.
I really would love to chatabout this more.
I'd really like to explore this.
Like I have a desire forsomething different.
I didn't know how to hold that,so I just kind of let it die and
(12:57):
quote.
Let him have it his way, whichis definitely a pattern for me
in the past of just kind of likequietly dying and falling over
because I don't know how to holdmy desire, because my thought
is, oh, if I had really showedup in a communicative, clear,
(13:21):
loving way, I think he wouldhave met me there and we could
have come up with something thatwe could really all enjoy,
potentially something different,right.
But he didn't know how to dothat, so that version of me was
just willing to let it go.
And then here's the thing theprice.
There's a cost to that, and thecost was that I got resentful.
(13:42):
I got resentful, so that partof me would rather have just
been resentful, I got resentful.
So that part of me was wouldrather have just been resentful,
and I thought, oh, that's justthe way it goes, that's the way
it is in a relationship, andthat I don't.
I don't think that that isnecessarily true, but it was
definitely true for me back then.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I think what we're talking about is that we make it
about the beach, we make itabout the vacation, thinking
that is the desire.
Oh, I want something that's notthe beach vacation.
And then your ex-husband islike no, I want the beach
vacation.
And now the tug of war isaround the beach vacation when,
in actuality, if we're talkingabout desire, the desire is no,
(14:23):
I want to do something differentthan what we've done.
And it's not really about thebeach vacation, it's something's
coming up for me.
And then leaning into desirewould be what is it that I'm
really looking for and how can Iget closer to having it?
But then here's the tricky part.
We can become so obsessedaround well, I just don't want
(14:47):
to go to the beach, that's whatI want.
And he wants to go to the beach.
So I'm just going to beresentful because I can't have
what I want.
I can't have it the way I wantit.
He gets to have it the way hewants it.
Versus, oh, how can I havesomething different if I'm sort
of bored of this way that we'redoing vacation?
What am I actually missing?
(15:08):
What's the nutrient that I'mmissing?
How can I make this happen formyself?
How can I create this formyself.
I think that a lot of this isskill, right, you're sort of
walking in the dark when youdon't know.
I'm sure listeners are like, oh, he just had to go somewhere
(15:30):
else and not go to the beach.
Especially if you're new tothis work.
You're like, no, just have himtake her somewhere else, have
him take the family somewhereelse.
Like, decide on a differentlocation, you can do something
different.
But potentially we don't knowbecause it didn't happen.
Potentially you could havestill gone on the beach vacation
and have found some other wayto bring in something different,
(15:55):
to touch on the craving, thedesire of I would like to
experience something new with myfamily, my husband, something
that doesn't have the feeling ofsame same on top of it.
I'm looking for, potentially,adventure, different scenery or
maybe no sand, or what exactlyabout the beach am I not
(16:18):
enjoying anymore?
Is it just because it's thesame?
Is there something even biggeroccurring?
And it has nothing to do withthe vacation, and I'm just
making it about the vacation.
Being responsible for our desireisn't just getting your husband
to take you somewhere else.
It's what am I really askingfor?
(16:39):
What do I really want, and howcan I communicate this to my
partner, my person, and have itbe okay, even if I don't get it.
Have it be okay even if I don'tget it, because part of what's
happening with desire is thatyou're growing into the woman
that knows exactly what shewants and gets to ask for it,
(17:02):
and that's really the gymnasium,that's the muscle that's being
exercised.
Not can I get the end resultthat I want, because, who knows,
who knows?
Maybe you would have said tohim hey, I want something
different.
You guys could have hadsomething different and maybe it
wasn't as satisfying.
We don't know.
We're not looking to cry overspilled milk.
We're more of pointing toexamples, trying to show
(17:26):
listeners, family's friends.
These are examples of what canbe happening all underneath the.
I just don't want to do thatanymore.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Absolutely.
That was really beautifullysaid.
You hit it when you said oh,it's more about showing up and
having the conversation, which Iknew how to do a little bit.
I think we know how to do thata little bit.
Or we know how to fight forwhat we want, right.
But can we really just like,soften and hold our desire in
(17:56):
the face of a no?
Do we know how to come back toour partner and say, oh, I want
to revisit this, oh, I reallywould love to do this instead?
Or what do you think of this?
You know, one of my teacherssaid we have to ask a man for
something 12 to 21 times beforehe will maybe realize that we
(18:16):
really want it or give it to us.
And so are you willing to askthat many times?
Like it's the first time?
And we did a whole episode onthat and here's here's what it
was for me.
Um, I was starving.
Like when you are not filled upas a woman, when you are
(18:37):
generally kind of like in avideo game, just letting all the
pieces fly by you and nothitting them, and you're not
having your desire, you're notgiving yourself what you want.
There comes a point for manywomen for myself and a lot of
the women that I work withyou're just so starving and
(19:01):
you're under-resourced andyou've starved yourself for so
long that you have to have it.
And if you don't have it,you're blaming it on someone
else and you get resentful andinstead the alternative is like
when you start actually feedingyourself, giving yourself the
things that you want, even ifit's something really small, or
even just showing up to theconversation in a mature,
(19:25):
respectful way, it does changethings.
And this is what we're talkingabout that the desire actually
grows you to be someone new andthere's plenty of opportunities.
So if you didn't hold yourdesire with the vacation, well,
there's the desire.
You know, to what restaurant doyou want to go to?
(19:46):
You know, there's so manyopportunities that we can do
this in life and I have amillion stories like that in my
relationships where I didn'thold the life.
And I have a million storieslike that in my relationships
where I didn't hold the desireand you know it just kind of
died and the night didn't go.
Well, you know there was onenight where he said, oh yeah,
you did say that.
You said you really wanted togo to that other restaurant I
(20:08):
wish.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I had listened.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
It's so good wish I had listened.
It's so good.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
I love how we are pointing to the early stages of
desire, like when we, as women,are just putting our finger on I
want something and I just can'tput my finger on it.
And sometimes we're hungry,we're starved, whether it's
(20:35):
relationship, love, sex, maybeit's been money, time off, all
the things that have us feelresourced.
I think that this might be afuture episode.
This might be a future episode,but for now, I really want to
(20:57):
leave everyone with the littlewhispers that you feel inside of
yourself and the big whispers.
So you'll hear something loudlike I just don't want to go to
the beach anymore, I don't wantthe beach vacation, but we don't
hear the little whisper of oh,I'm craving something different.
What's happening for me?
What would fulfill it?
Yes, the beach vacation notbeach vacation is one of the
(21:20):
options.
But what else is an option?
Because desire, unlike ourgoals, is not outcome specific.
So there will be plenty of waysto be able to touch on and
nourish yourself with somethingdifferent, using the example
that we're talking about.
(21:40):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
The thought that came to me, which is so important,
before we are in touch with ourdesire.
It's really tricky because ourworld is oriented to problems,
not desire.
Our friends are generally notasking us what do you want?
What do you want?
They're like oh, what happenedlast night?
(22:03):
What did he say?
Or what did she say?
We're really oriented towardsproblems and that's what I love
about these discussions is thatwe can actually reorient
ourselves to desire and when westart doing that, it's just a
game changer for our entire lifeand it takes time to practice
it, but it is possible,orienting ourselves to all the
(22:35):
ways in which life isn't working, to looking at all the ways in
which we want things to bedifferent or better, or what are
we desiring.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
It has me think of desire pulls that's also one of
our mini toolboxes and that's agreat exercise for that or even
desire lists, where you just sitwith yourself and write what do
I want?
What do I want?
What do I want?
I actually have a client who'sbeen doing this and who's
reporting back that she's like Iforget how important it is to
(22:59):
just sit with what do you want,because it's not about getting
it, it's about feeling into whatyou want.
It's almost like checking yourthermostat, like where am I in
my life, what are the thingsthat are still yet to be had,
yet to be felt?
Where is this woman that I'mbecoming going?
What am I looking forward to?
(23:23):
And I would love to leave ourlisteners with this question of
if you already know what desirefeels like, wonderful, but if
you happen to fall into the campthat you're not sure you hear
the really loud desires, can youask yourself what's underneath
this?
What is my desire?
I see what it's asking for thenew car.
(23:44):
I see what it's asking for adifferent vacation but what's
really happening Is that I wantsomething different.
Is it that I want more comfort?
What am I really looking forand how can I give it to myself?
What is one small way that Ican give it to myself?
Not where I can ask for it?
One small way that I can giveit to myself and then after that
(24:07):
, yes, you can ask whoever youwant, whatever you want, but
just for practice sake, and ifyou're listening to this for the
first time, welcome If you'relistening to us for the first
time.
If you are not, if you arereturning.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
We absolutely love and adoreall the things that you share
with us and how this podcasttouches you, and if you'd like
(24:30):
to share this with someone youlove, please do so.
Write us in a review on ApplePodcasts and send us a
screenshot.
We'd love to know.
Bye for now.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Thank you for joining us on the Desire is Medicine
podcast.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply
intimate with ourselves andothers.
You can find our handles in theshow notes.
We'd love to hear from you.
Welcome to Desire is Medicine.
We are two very different womenliving a life led by desire.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Inviting you into our world.
I'm Brenda.
I'm a devoted practitioner tobeing my fully expressed true
self in my daily life,motherhood relationships and my
business Desire has taken me onquite a ride and every day I
practice listening to andfollowing the voice within.
I'm a middle school teacherturned coach and guide of the
(00:35):
feminine.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the
truest and hopefully thehighest version of me.
I don't have children, I'venever been married.
I've spent equal parts of mylife in corporate as in some
down and low shady spaces.
I was the epitome of tired andwired and my path led me to
explore desire.
I'm a coach, guide, energyworker and a forever student.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Even after decades of inner work, we are humble
beginners on the mat, stillexploring, always curious.
We believe that listening toand following the nudge of
desire is a deep spiritualpractice that helps us grow.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
On the Desires Medicine podcast.
We talk to each other, weinterview people we know and
love about the practice ofdesire, bringing in a very
important piece that is oftenoverlooked being responsible for
our desire.
Welcome back family, friends,listeners so excited to be here
with the lovely Brenda and, ofcourse, all of you.
(01:33):
I'm so grateful that you takethe time out to listen, that you
take the time to write.
We love hearing from you.
The first eight episodes ofDesire is Medicine are basically
a course.
Brenda and I sat down and wewere like what are the pillars,
like the things that aremust-knows, must-haves in order
(01:59):
for us to be able to feel intoour desires.
And as part of our 100thepisode celebration, we decided
to sit with what's showing up inthe field for us.
And one of the things that we'vebeen sitting with is how do you
feel desire before you actuallyfeel desire?
Like, how do you know thatyou're feeling desire?
Is it turn on?
(02:22):
Is it sex?
It's so layered, it'sabsolutely so.
So layered Because it couldvary, I think, with us
culturally, personally,relationally, the rules we set
for ourselves, all the shouldsthat we have, how we think or
(02:44):
imagine it should feel Like Ishould know what I want to eat.
Whenever I go out, I should knowexactly what my taste buds are
calling for.
I should know the nutrition Ineed.
I should be able to pick theperfect partner that I'm going
to be with forever and ever.
I should have found the exactbest friends we could shit on
ourselves or really be with.
(03:06):
What does a desire feel like?
So, on this episode, brenda andI are going to feel and do our
best to tap back in to what itfelt like before.
We actually knew desire, and Ithink Brenda has some good
insight here.
So I'm going to invite Brendato unmute and share.
(03:26):
What was it like for you?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Hello everybody, great to be here.
Wow, what was it like before Istarted studying desire?
I think that, first of all,it's important to say that our
culture has a mixed idea of whatdesire even means.
When we think about desire, wethink about sex, and there's so
much more to desire than justsex, and so anytime I thought
(03:53):
about desire, I really justthought about sex, which meant
that I didn't talk about it,because we also don't talk about
these things.
I think I had a relationshipwith desire before I was really
tapped into what that means.
Because here I am, I got here.
I've been studying desire formaybe 18 years, which is quite a
(04:15):
while, but I lived 40 yearsbefore that and I certainly had
some beautiful things in my lifeand had some beautiful
experiences.
So I must have felt desireright Before I even really knew
what it was.
And I think when I feel intodesire, it's like oh, it's
(04:35):
something that just shows up forme, like you said, an
excitement or an idea or a spark, or an idea or a spark Before I
was even in tune with my body.
It would show up as like aknowing or an idea or like where
do these things come from?
Right, like we're always inrelationship with the universe
(04:57):
and sometimes something willjust hit you and you're like, oh
my God, I want that.
Sometimes it's in response tothe world, like maybe you're
window shopping and you see adress and you're like, oh my God
, I want that.
Sometimes it's in response tothe world.
Like maybe you're windowshopping and you see a dress and
you're like, oh my God, I wantthat dress.
Right, that's a really obviousexample.
But what about when it's notobvious?
What if you're just at work,living your best life, making a
(05:17):
grocery list, and all of asudden you're like, oh my God,
there's this thing that I want.
I really want X, y, z, whateverit is.
Like, where did that come from?
I think it just comes fromco-creating with the universe,
but for me it landed in my body.
It's like something that I canfeel and then something that I
(05:38):
could respond to.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
I love the story that you're sharing, so I want to
stay with you for a second.
And you studied desire for 18years, and before that you
hadn't.
And you're saying it would landin your body.
So did you?
Were you experiencing thisbefore you knew what desire was
Like?
Clearly, we're experiencingdesire before we know, and is
(06:02):
that what you're saying?
Or was it before we know?
And is that what?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
you're saying, or was it?
Is it more nuanced?
I would definitely experiencedesire.
I mean, there were things thatI wanted.
I wanted to get married, Iwanted a house, I wanted
children, I wanted to go toMexico.
You know, I wanted XYZ.
There were a lot of things thatI wanted.
I wanted that car, right, and Iwanted that house, and, oh, I
really want rollerblades, yeah.
(06:28):
So so I definitely had anexperience with desire of oh, I
want these things.
Very often for me it's inresponse to the universe, like,
specifically, the rollerblades.
A friend of mine who I taughtwith bought these great
rollerblades and she would betalking about rollerblading all
the time and I just got reallyturned on by her desire.
(06:49):
I was like I want rollerblades.
So these were back in the eBaydays.
So she went on eBay, she got mea pair of rollerblades and that
was it.
I was rollerblading for areally long time after that, but
it was in response to herenjoying that desire that I was
able to feel the stirring of myown desire.
Oh, my god, I just have so manygreat memories of rollerblading
(07:13):
down, you know, the road to thebeach where I lived and just
being in complete flow and justfeeling one with the universe.
That was really amazing.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Thanks so much.
I love that.
I love the example of beingaround people who are doing
something and it sort of pops inour mind and we go, oh, I want
to do that.
I also want to make space forwhen we feel a desire, that
sometimes we choose not to do it.
(07:46):
I would love to skydive, but Iwould love to skydive with an
instructor, and if I alreadytook a skydive lesson, I
wouldn't necessarily want to beon an airplane where they're
like all right, catherine, it'stime for you to jump now.
I have the desire to do it andI thought about the action
(08:06):
required behind the desire.
But I'm not going to do it justwilly nilly.
It's under certaincircumstances, like with certain
safety nets, and I think thisis a great time to talk about
withholding.
We have a whole episode on thatbut sometimes we're so afraid
to feel a desire because wedon't want to not do it, we
(08:28):
don't want to not go after it,like.
All the examples you gave weregreat.
They're like you're goingrollerblading and you want the
house, the husband, the children.
It's super tangible.
But what happens when we have adesire for something?
You spoke about this veryrecently.
One of Brenda's students had adesire for a yoga studio, and
(08:49):
it's not about having the studio.
I don't want to go too far off.
Today we're talking about howdo we know we have desire and
we're tapping into it beforewe're actually using the word
desire, before we have the sortof airmark or the flag in the
ground.
Oh, I know exactly what desirefeels like.
In my body, desire is somewhatlike a goal, like I want a house
(09:12):
or I want that car, I wantthese rollerblades, and
sometimes it's not so easy.
We have a desire and we can'tjust go to the bakery store and
buy that croissant that we'recraving.
Sometimes it's somethingdifferent.
Maybe it means that I have adesire to be the sort of woman
that says no really easily, andthen, potentially, I may not
(09:34):
know how to say no.
And then now, all of a sudden,I don't want to feel into what
it feels like to be a woman thatdoesn't know how to say no, for
example.
It can become so complicated.
Do you see what I'm pointing toBrendaa?
Like, can you talk?
Yeah, what comes up for youaround that?
Speaker 2 (09:49):
these are really great examples.
Oh, my god, I have so manythoughts.
It feels like, in a way, whatyou're talking about is being
responsible for your desire.
You know when you're like, oh,I want to go skydiving, but I
only want, I want to be safe, Iwant it to be fun and I'm only
going to do it under thesecircumstances.
You know, there was a timebefore I studied desire where a
(10:10):
flood bank started opening forwhat I wanted in my life and I
was like, oh, I just need tofollow all of these things and
while that was very fun, I don'tknow that it was the most
responsible thing and Icertainly don't do that anymore.
You know, now I take intoaccount well, you mentioned
(10:37):
safety, right, safety capacity,impact and really slowing down
and asking myself can I do this?
When can I do this?
Is this something that I reallywant?
Or, you know, just exploring it, and I think that's being
responsible for our desire want,or, you know, just exploring it
, and I think that's beingresponsible for our desire.
You know, we can have everythingthat we want in our life, but
maybe not all at the same time.
(10:57):
Right, there is aresponsibility of it's the other
side of the coin of like whimsy.
Like when I started out thisjourney, I felt starved.
I deprived myself of desire ina lot of ways, I deprived myself
of what I wanted, and it filledup like a bottle and then it
was started exploding outbecause I had ignored it for so
(11:19):
long.
And then I was like, well, I'mjust going to give myself
absolutely everything at thebuffet.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Can we slow down and talk about that version of you,
the version of you that wasn'twilling to give yourself what
you desired?
Do you have, like, apolitically correct way of
touching on it, like, are youwilling to share something so
that somebody potentiallylistening is like oh, I feel
that I know what that looks like.
Is it because you were like amom and as a mom, you can't do
(11:48):
this when you have children?
Or yes, what versions wereshowing up for you?
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I mean there's a lot of different versions.
The story just comes up rightnow this experience that I had.
We used to go on summervacation every summer with my
husband and the kids when I wasmarried, and we used to do a
particular kind of vacation.
We would go to a beach, wewould go to Cancun or we'd go to
(12:13):
Dominican Republic or somethingreally fun like that.
It was like some kind of beachvacation.
And I grew tired of that and Iwanted something different, and
so I tried to communicate thatto my partner at the time.
There's so many other thingsthat we could do.
Like I had a desire I didn'tquite know what it was, but had
desire for something differentand he just wouldn't hear it.
He was just like what, what doyou mean?
(12:34):
We're not going to go on abeach vacation.
And I didn't quite have theskills or the self-awareness to
be like, hey, something's comingup for me.
I really would love to chatabout this more.
I'd really like to explore this.
Like I have a desire forsomething different.
I didn't know how to hold that,so I just kind of let it die and
(12:57):
quote.
Let him have it his way, whichis definitely a pattern for me
in the past of just kind of likequietly dying and falling over
because I don't know how to holdmy desire, because my thought
is, oh, if I had really showedup in a communicative, clear,
(13:21):
loving way, I think he wouldhave met me there and we could
have come up with something thatwe could really all enjoy,
potentially something different,right.
But he didn't know how to dothat, so that version of me was
just willing to let it go.
And then here's the thing theprice.
There's a cost to that, and thecost was that I got resentful.
(13:42):
I got resentful, so that partof me would rather have just
been resentful, I got resentful.
So that part of me was wouldrather have just been resentful,
and I thought, oh, that's justthe way it goes, that's the way
it is in a relationship, andthat I don't.
I don't think that that isnecessarily true, but it was
definitely true for me back then.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I think what we're talking about is that we make it
about the beach, we make itabout the vacation, thinking
that is the desire.
Oh, I want something that's notthe beach vacation.
And then your ex-husband islike no, I want the beach
vacation.
And now the tug of war isaround the beach vacation when,
in actuality, if we're talkingabout desire, the desire is no,
(14:23):
I want to do something differentthan what we've done.
And it's not really about thebeach vacation, it's something's
coming up for me.
And then leaning into desirewould be what is it that I'm
really looking for and how can Iget closer to having it?
But then here's the tricky part.
We can become so obsessedaround well, I just don't want
(14:47):
to go to the beach, that's whatI want.
And he wants to go to the beach.
So I'm just going to beresentful because I can't have
what I want.
I can't have it the way I wantit.
He gets to have it the way hewants it.
Versus, oh, how can I havesomething different if I'm sort
of bored of this way that we'redoing vacation?
What am I actually missing?
(15:08):
What's the nutrient that I'mmissing?
How can I make this happen formyself?
How can I create this formyself.
I think that a lot of this isskill, right, you're sort of
walking in the dark when youdon't know.
I'm sure listeners are like, oh, he just had to go somewhere
(15:30):
else and not go to the beach.
Especially if you're new tothis work.
You're like, no, just have himtake her somewhere else, have
him take the family somewhereelse.
Like, decide on a differentlocation, you can do something
different.
But potentially we don't knowbecause it didn't happen.
Potentially you could havestill gone on the beach vacation
and have found some other wayto bring in something different,
(15:55):
to touch on the craving, thedesire of I would like to
experience something new with myfamily, my husband, something
that doesn't have the feeling ofsame same on top of it.
I'm looking for, potentially,adventure, different scenery or
maybe no sand, or what exactlyabout the beach am I not
(16:18):
enjoying anymore?
Is it just because it's thesame?
Is there something even biggeroccurring?
And it has nothing to do withthe vacation, and I'm just
making it about the vacation.
Being responsible for our desireisn't just getting your husband
to take you somewhere else.
It's what am I really askingfor?
(16:39):
What do I really want, and howcan I communicate this to my
partner, my person, and have itbe okay, even if I don't get it.
Have it be okay even if I don'tget it, because part of what's
happening with desire is thatyou're growing into the woman
that knows exactly what shewants and gets to ask for it,
(17:02):
and that's really the gymnasium,that's the muscle that's being
exercised.
Not can I get the end resultthat I want, because, who knows,
who knows?
Maybe you would have said tohim hey, I want something
different.
You guys could have hadsomething different and maybe it
wasn't as satisfying.
We don't know.
We're not looking to cry overspilled milk.
We're more of pointing toexamples, trying to show
(17:26):
listeners, family's friends.
These are examples of what canbe happening all underneath the.
I just don't want to do thatanymore.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Absolutely.
That was really beautifullysaid.
You hit it when you said oh,it's more about showing up and
having the conversation, which Iknew how to do a little bit.
I think we know how to do thata little bit.
Or we know how to fight forwhat we want, right.
But can we really just like,soften and hold our desire in
(17:56):
the face of a no?
Do we know how to come back toour partner and say, oh, I want
to revisit this, oh, I reallywould love to do this instead?
Or what do you think of this?
You know, one of my teacherssaid we have to ask a man for
something 12 to 21 times beforehe will maybe realize that we
(18:16):
really want it or give it to us.
And so are you willing to askthat many times?
Like it's the first time?
And we did a whole episode onthat and here's here's what it
was for me.
Um, I was starving.
Like when you are not filled upas a woman, when you are
(18:37):
generally kind of like in avideo game, just letting all the
pieces fly by you and nothitting them, and you're not
having your desire, you're notgiving yourself what you want.
There comes a point for manywomen for myself and a lot of
the women that I work withyou're just so starving and
(19:01):
you're under-resourced andyou've starved yourself for so
long that you have to have it.
And if you don't have it,you're blaming it on someone
else and you get resentful andinstead the alternative is like
when you start actually feedingyourself, giving yourself the
things that you want, even ifit's something really small, or
even just showing up to theconversation in a mature,
(19:25):
respectful way, it does changethings.
And this is what we're talkingabout that the desire actually
grows you to be someone new andthere's plenty of opportunities.
So if you didn't hold yourdesire with the vacation, well,
there's the desire.
You know, to what restaurant doyou want to go to?
(19:46):
You know, there's so manyopportunities that we can do
this in life and I have amillion stories like that in my
relationships where I didn'thold the life.
And I have a million storieslike that in my relationships
where I didn't hold the desireand you know it just kind of
died and the night didn't go.
Well, you know there was onenight where he said, oh yeah,
you did say that.
You said you really wanted togo to that other restaurant I
(20:08):
wish.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I had listened.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
It's so good wish I had listened.
It's so good.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
I love how we are pointing to the early stages of
desire, like when we, as women,are just putting our finger on I
want something and I just can'tput my finger on it.
And sometimes we're hungry,we're starved, whether it's
(20:35):
relationship, love, sex, maybeit's been money, time off, all
the things that have us feelresourced.
I think that this might be afuture episode.
This might be a future episode,but for now, I really want to
(20:57):
leave everyone with the littlewhispers that you feel inside of
yourself and the big whispers.
So you'll hear something loudlike I just don't want to go to
the beach anymore, I don't wantthe beach vacation, but we don't
hear the little whisper of oh,I'm craving something different.
What's happening for me?
What would fulfill it?
Yes, the beach vacation notbeach vacation is one of the
(21:20):
options.
But what else is an option?
Because desire, unlike ourgoals, is not outcome specific.
So there will be plenty of waysto be able to touch on and
nourish yourself with somethingdifferent, using the example
that we're talking about.
(21:40):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
The thought that came to me, which is so important,
before we are in touch with ourdesire.
It's really tricky because ourworld is oriented to problems,
not desire.
Our friends are generally notasking us what do you want?
What do you want?
They're like oh, what happenedlast night?
(22:03):
What did he say?
Or what did she say?
We're really oriented towardsproblems and that's what I love
about these discussions is thatwe can actually reorient
ourselves to desire and when westart doing that, it's just a
game changer for our entire lifeand it takes time to practice
it, but it is possible,orienting ourselves to all the
(22:35):
ways in which life isn't working, to looking at all the ways in
which we want things to bedifferent or better, or what are
we desiring.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
It has me think of desire pulls that's also one of
our mini toolboxes and that's agreat exercise for that or even
desire lists, where you just sitwith yourself and write what do
I want?
What do I want?
What do I want?
I actually have a client who'sbeen doing this and who's
reporting back that she's like Iforget how important it is to
(22:59):
just sit with what do you want,because it's not about getting
it, it's about feeling into whatyou want.
It's almost like checking yourthermostat, like where am I in
my life, what are the thingsthat are still yet to be had,
yet to be felt?
Where is this woman that I'mbecoming going?
What am I looking forward to?
(23:23):
And I would love to leave ourlisteners with this question of
if you already know what desirefeels like, wonderful, but if
you happen to fall into the campthat you're not sure you hear
the really loud desires, can youask yourself what's underneath
this?
What is my desire?
I see what it's asking for thenew car.
(23:44):
I see what it's asking for adifferent vacation but what's
really happening Is that I wantsomething different.
Is it that I want more comfort?
What am I really looking forand how can I give it to myself?
What is one small way that Ican give it to myself?
Not where I can ask for it?
One small way that I can giveit to myself and then after that
(24:07):
, yes, you can ask whoever youwant, whatever you want, but
just for practice sake, and ifyou're listening to this for the
first time, welcome If you'relistening to us for the first
time.
If you are not, if you arereturning.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
We absolutely love and adoreall the things that you share
with us and how this podcasttouches you, and if you'd like
(24:30):
to share this with someone youlove, please do so.
Write us in a review on ApplePodcasts and send us a
screenshot.
We'd love to know.
Bye for now.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Thank you for joining us on the Desire is Medicine
podcast.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply
intimate with ourselves andothers.
You can find our handles in theshow notes.
We'd love to hear from you.
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