August 20, 2025 • 27 mins
What happens to our sex lives when we actively practice desire? Everything changes. When we approach desire as a spiritual practice, our relationship with sex shifts from reactive and conditional to conscious and self-responsible.
Brenda and Catherine explore how this transformation unfolds, moving beyond old patterns, like withholding sex during conflicts or expecting partners to manage our arousal, and toward a more empowered, pleasure-led way of relating. They share personal experiences of letting go of outdated scripts, like believing we should always want sex if we love someone, or that desire disappearing signals a relationship problem.
Instead, they offer a compassionate view: sexual desire naturally ebbs and flows, and those shifts can be met with curiosity, communication, and creativity. From navigating life changes like new motherhood to finding new ways to connect physically, the focus becomes honoring what’s real in the moment.
A key insight is that turn-on is our own responsibility. This reframes sexuality from something dependent on others to a deeply personal practice of self-awareness and self-expression. By tending to the things that make us feel alive—rest, play, creativity, and meaningful connection—sexual desire becomes a natural extension of a well-fed life.
Episode Highlights:
• Recognizing that sexual desire naturally fluctuates and having approval for yourself when it changes
• Communicating what you want sexually, even when it’s different from yesterday
• Why women sometimes “forget how much they like sex” and how to reconnect with that knowledge
• Moving beyond patterns of withholding sex during relationship conflicts
• Taking responsibility for your own turn-on rather than expecting your partner to create it
• Navigating challenging periods like new motherhood with honest communication
• The importance of being “well-fed” in all aspects of life to sustain sexual desire
• Shifting from externally-oriented to internally-oriented sexuality
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Email Us:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Desire is Medicine.
We are two very different womenliving a life led by desire,
inviting you into our world.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Brenda.
I'm a devoted practitioner tobeing my fully expressed true
self in my daily life.
Motherhood relationships and mybusiness Desire has taken me on
quite a ride and every day Ipractice listening to and
following the voice within.
I'm a middle school teacherturned coach and guide of the
feminine.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the
truest and hopefully thehighest version of me.
I don't have children, I'venever been married.
I've spent equal parts of mylife in corporate as in some
down and low shady spaces.
I was the epitome of tired andwired and my path led me to
explore desire.
I'm a coach, guide, energyworker and a forever student.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Even after decades of inner work, we are humble
beginners on the mat, stillexploring, always curious.
We believe that listening toand following the nudge of
desire is a deep spiritualpractice that helps us grow.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
On the Desires Medicine podcast.
We talk to each other, weinterview people we know and
love about the practice ofdesire, bringing in a very
important piece that is oftenoverlooked being responsible for
our desire.
Welcome back listeners, family,friends.
(01:34):
Thank you so much for listeningand taking some time out to
welcome Brenda and I on anotherepisode of Desire as Medicine.
Desire such a big topic.
Desire Such a big topic, so bigthat we have over 100 episodes
just on desire.
It's so wild.
Right here is this thing that'ssomewhat benign, where you think
about it like goal setting.
(01:55):
It's something that you feel inyour body, and yet we've talked
about it from all differentsides of the coin and we're
continuing to do so.
Today we're talking aboutdesire and sex.
There are so many ways todiscuss sex, of course, just as
(02:20):
there are so many ways todiscuss desire.
We're going to talk about ittoday from the perspective of
how does sex look differentbefore you practice desire or
study desire, and how does sexlook after you practice desire
specifically?
And one of the little locationsthat we'll be looking at is
what it has meant for either oneof us around loss of desire for
(02:45):
sex, and we're not looking tocreate any problems.
We're looking at this with tonsof love and compassion and
hopefully, if you fall in any ofthese places, you can also dose
yourself with a lot of love.
Brenda, what was your desirefor sex before?
(03:06):
What was it like before youstarted practicing desire?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
This is a great question and such a good topic.
My desire for sex was veryresponsive and, I would say,
conditional, before I started onthis path of studying pleasure
and desire, embodiment, truth,all of that.
It was very responsive.
It was like, oh, I'm in themood, or I'm not in the mood, or
(03:33):
met someone new and things arehot and heavy about I just
thought that's the way.
It was Like, oh, you just wantto have sex all the time, or
you're just not in the mood, oryou get into a fight, something
happens and that's what kind ofinterrupts the desire for sex.
Or sometimes you just get fullright Like you've satisfied that
(03:57):
itch so much.
But it wasn't something that Ireally thought about.
I just thought, oh, if I'm withsomeone and I love them, then I
should want to have sex withthem, and if I don't, then it's
a problem.
And so that created a lot ofproblems, because none of that
(04:18):
is really true.
We go through cycles, our bodyis always changing as a woman,
and what we wanted yesterday wedon't want today.
And in the past I definitelymade that a problem, or found my
partner wrong, or found thewhole relationship wrong, or
thought I needed a differentpartner instead of really
(04:40):
examining what was happeninginside of me.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Well, I love that you brought into the conversation
that we change and somethingthat we liked yesterday like we
don't like today, and yourpartner can easily look at you
and say, but you liked ityesterday and you're like, yeah,
I didn't like it today, and howto have approval for that?
I think it's a lot easier tohave approval for that when you
(05:06):
know, oh, this is completelynormal, like it's completely
normal to enjoy this activity orsex in this way for this long,
and then all of a sudden wantsomething different, or this
doesn't necessarily satisfy mein the same way as it did
yesterday, and that's okay,there's nothing wrong, this is
not a problem.
What I need is to just be ableto describe and communicate what
(05:31):
I do want.
That's what's most important.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
That's the hardest part.
I think that's where we gettripped up and I think that's
where I used to get tripped up.
I just thought this wassomething that, like your body
did and you just kind of it justkind of went on its own.
I was like, what I need to say,what I want?
I need to be responsible forthis.
I mean, those weren't wordsthat I used in the past, but wow
(05:55):
, that's really a lot.
That's a hard thing for mostwomen to do is to say what you
want and then also, that pieceof what worked yesterday doesn't
work today is sometimesconfusing to us as women, let
alone be in approval of that andthen communicate it to your
(06:16):
partner and we do change.
I told the story a couple ofepisodes ago about the
Pellegrino that I was datingsomeone and he asked me what I
wanted.
And I said, oh, I thePellegrino that I was dating
someone.
And you know, he asked me whatI wanted and I said, oh, I love
Pellegrino.
And the next time I went there,the entire fridge was filled
with bottles of Pellegrino,right, well, it's up to us to
tell our partners what we want,and then it's also up to us to
(06:36):
tell our partners.
I've had enough, I'm full,thank you, thank you so much,
and now I would like sparklinggrape juice or whatever.
We have to be aware of that.
We have to be in approval thatwhat we want changes, and that's
kind of the fun part of being awoman.
Let's be real, and it can becomplex and confusing because we
(06:59):
have to understand it and thencommunicate it.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
I love how you say the fun part of being a woman.
It is definitely not in theowner's manual.
Society tends to look at us ascomplicated.
Or she must be on her period,or she must be in a mood, or
some version of that, someversion of that, and I think we
(07:30):
contribute to it by not being anapproval of.
Oh, this changed for me, andthat's okay.
Nobody died, like there's nogrief here.
I just want something differentand that's okay.
Like I can ask for the newthing.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Totally, and it's like getting to know yourself so
well that you could actuallygive your partner an owner's
manual about yourself.
Right and ideally.
This takes time to build.
Which is the joy of having alonger relationship is that you
can tell your partner what youwant and how you work, and then
they can give it to you or atleast do their best or at least
(08:10):
understand how you tick.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Well, the hope is that, if you are in a long-term
partnership, that you have beenpracticing along the way, having
this then be easier than a newpartner, because you have had
more conversations and you'vehad more reps around this
particular cycle of uh-oh, mydesire changed Totally.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I don't always find it easier in a long-term
relationship to say the thingsthat I want.
It really depends.
(09:15):
Sometimes it is really easy, toour point from two minutes ago.
Sometimes it's really easy andsometimes I'm like I feel like
choked up, I'm like I can't getit out.
Sometimes it's just sovulnerable, so vulnerable to say
what we want.
Somebody finds it wrong or likewhy do you want that?
Society definitely does that.
You're selfish.
Why do you want that?
Oh, you had that yesterday andnow you want more.
Like we don't really awarddesire in that way.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
No, it's like why do you want that?
You don't need it.
Like, why do you need that?
It's fine, you can do withoutit.
It's luxurious or opulent orabundant, Like you don't need
that.
And so we're looking at thisfrom the perspective of having
approval for our changingdesires.
And let's talk about whathappens when our desire for sex
(10:11):
goes flat.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
And specifically, let's talk about how you looked
at it going flat before studyingdesire.
I would think something's wrong.
Something's wrong.
Well, I didn't really thinksomething was wrong with me.
I thought something was maybewrong with him or the
relationship it was, and it wasin a way, responsive.
It was like, oh, we got into afight or he did something that
(10:34):
disgusted me or I didn't likethe way he said X, y, z, and now
I don't want to have sex andthat really would throw me off.
So I was in confusion, I was inblame, I would shut down, I
didn't quite know how tocommunicate those things or call
(10:56):
a girlfriend.
Or when I called a girlfriendback then, it was a lot of
colluding because we just aswomen generally in our society,
I think want to find men wrongand we want to find ourselves
right.
I mean, we want to be right,right.
So it was a lot of finding itwrong and thinking there was a
(11:16):
problem instead of justaccepting it as part of life.
Just part of life.
We're not going to be likehorny and wanting sex all the
time.
Who would do the dishes?
How would we eat?
How would we get the kids tosoccer.
Practice Like this isn't justthe way our bodies and life
(11:38):
works.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Who would do the dishes For me.
There was a time when I wasprobably moving too fast, had
too many things happening and Ifelt like, oh my God, sex is
another thing on my to-do list,even though we both are talking
about examples where we hadalready been having sex and we
(12:00):
knew the pleasures of it, andstill it was like, ah, either
you did something, I'm mad atyou or I have so much to do.
Do I really want to do this?
Like, if I do this, this isgonna take an hour or two hours
out of my day and I have allthese other things on here.
This is sort of like our takeon it.
(12:20):
When we were pre-studying desire, I want to say and so for me, I
was annoyed.
For sure, I wasn't necessarilywithholding sex because
something had gone wrong with usthat wasn't necessarily my MO,
but if I had too much, it wasreally hard for me to drop in
and reconnect with myself, andthat was the hurdle at that time
(12:44):
.
But then, after Desire, afterstudying Desire, I think this
changes right.
So what happened for you whenyou started to practice and feel
into what you like, what youwant, like?
How did those things change foryou?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
You know, I just need to go back a little micro step,
because you brought up a reallygreat point that I really need
to speak to, which is it feltlike something else to do on my
to-do list.
That is a really big spot forwomen, and if you're working, if
you're married, if you havechildren, whatever it is, we can
get really busy and it can feellike a chore, even if we know
(13:20):
that we like sex.
Somebody said to me once womenforget how much they like sex,
and I think that there is atruth to that, that men don't
forget but women forget.
I definitely can forget, butwhat I want to say is being a
new mom oh my goodness, talkabout no desire for sex.
Your body had just went throughthis big transition.
(13:41):
You're breastfeeding I wasbreastfeeding You're holding a
baby all day long.
You're not necessarily gettingout, you're not necessarily
looking your best, you're notreally feeling sexy, and it
feels like something to do.
It feels like a chore and thatcan be really confusing and
(14:03):
really hard to communicate andreally hard for your partner to
understand, especially if youdon't know how to communicate it
.
Well, I'm just going to talkheteronormatively.
Men need other men.
When a woman has a baby.
Her man needs other men to goto.
(14:25):
He needs other resources to goto, not just you, so that we can
talk about these things incommunity, because otherwise
it's very, very confusing.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
You said you know you don't know how to communicate
that.
Well, I mean, how would youcommunicate it now with the that
?
Well, I mean, how would youcommunicate it now with the
information you have?
Like, how do you communicatethat?
Well, you just had a baby?
You don't feel like it.
Do you have any tips there?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Well, that's a great question.
First of all, just having moreawareness about my body and just
being able to communicate thatwhich starts way before you had
a baby.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
This is not what I was right.
That's what I was thinking.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah Well, you're 100% correct.
It starts and this could betranslated to anything like
starting a new job or having anybig change in life it starts
way before.
This is why we practice, sothat when it's time for the game
, we know how to act.
But there's also so many otheroptions on the table besides sex
(15:25):
, besides penetrative sex.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yes, I was just kind of pointing to specifically you
said.
Well, I didn't assert we don'talways have the tools there and
I'm going.
Well, even with tools, this isprobably a really difficult
conversation.
But to your point yes, evenwith tools, this is probably a
really difficult conversation.
But to your point yes, if we dostart having this conversation
way before baby's, even in theroom, then it's so much easier.
Hey, I've heard that this canhappen to women.
(15:50):
I'm really afraid that thishappens to me and if this
happens to me, what the impactis on our relationship?
Like, is there something thatwe can set?
Like, can we have a spelunker?
Can we have some kind ofguardrail?
Can we bring something into therelationship and relating with
one another around sex whenthere is a newborn and I am
feeling like I haven't showered,like how do we?
(16:11):
And sex isn't top of mind for anew mom?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
No, it's really not.
And exactly to your point.
I think the communication isreally most important thing.
And then, really talking aboutit, you might not know this
before you have your first needsmet without having sensual or
penetrative sex?
(16:42):
You can cuddle, you can toucheach other.
There's so much that you cantalk about.
What are your desires?
We all have different needs anda lot of people really do have
the need for physical touch.
Sometimes the only way thatthat's met is through sex.
Well, this is a greatopportunity to explore what else
(17:03):
is available.
How can we meet this need forconnection, for skin-to-skin
contact?
You know, to feel good andclose without sex, and just
having that conversation andkind of bearing your heart in
that way touches on that reallydeep spot of connection that
(17:24):
we're really looking for.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Yeah, Thank you for that, thank you for circling
back, and now I'm going to goback to you and ask you the same
question, because you didn'tanswer that one.
You took me all the way back tobabies and mamas and sex, no
sex.
So we are talking about how doyou see or feel into your desire
(17:48):
for no sex now that you havestudied desire?
It's a really good question.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I think it's just having approval for the process.
I mean, sometimes I just don'thave a desire for sex.
I am in a long-termrelationship and it just happens
, and I've learned to not turnaway from my partner when that
happens.
I've learned to turn in andjust name it, just say, oh, I'm
(18:17):
not really feeling like havingsex today or this week, or oh, I
haven't really been in the moodlately.
Just saying that kind of meltsthe room in a way, you know,
because I think men can getscared, especially if they have
a history of not getting the sexthat they want.
Whatever it is like that hascome up in my relationship, just
(18:39):
me being loving and kind andthoughtful and saying, oh, let's
snuggle, or just havingconnection in a different way.
So for me, the ultimate thatI'm pointing to is communicating
it and just being in approvalof it myself.
And I'm going to keep goingback to it, because when we're
in approval of somethingourselves and I say, okay, this
(19:02):
isn't a problem, I'm just maybenot in the mood or I'm busy, or
right now we actually do have alot of family things going on
and it's has been a littlecrunchy sometimes and I haven't
really been in the mood.
So communicating that and beingin approval is for me really
huge, because that is what movesthe needle, and then also
(19:27):
noticing when I do have thespark of desire acting on that.
And sometimes it's not loudLike I think it really used to
be very loud, and sometimes it'sjust quieter these days, and
that's okay too.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
I think that's something to bring into the room
.
I do think that we have seasons, especially as we age as women,
that sex and desire begins tochange shape and form and you're
not just like horny all thetime, wet all the time, ready
all the time, and communicatingthat, I think, is really
important for sure, likebringing connection and that
(20:04):
your partner knows exactlywhat's occurring with you and
your body, so that you'reconnected over it and that it
doesn't feel like you're in yourcamp over there and they're in
their camp over there andthere's no connection.
It's either you are or aren'thaving sex.
It doesn't have to be that way.
It could be whether we are orwe aren't, we are connected and
(20:24):
I know what's happening to mypartner, especially in the realm
of turn on.
Like is my partner turned on?
What are the other options onthe table?
If one of us is not really likein the mood, does that mean
that we get in the mood or not?
Are we ready to just put thekibosh on this or something else
?
(20:44):
One of the things that Brendaand I talk about often.
I don't think we've had apodcast on this often.
I don't think we've had apodcast on this.
But we are responsible for ourown turn on and I think before
Desire, I was kind of lazy, so Iwould say that I when I say
lazy, I mean I only wanted todate people that I was turned on
(21:08):
with or by.
I didn't necessarily have to orwant to work on that, but
because I feel that chemistry isa very undertapped resource,
but we are responsible for itand if something's in the way of
our turn on, it's ourresponsibility to bring it to
our partners.
If something's in the way ofour turn on because of
circumstance.
(21:28):
I think it's also ourresponsibility to share that
Amen, it's really true, yeah, Imean when we're thinking about
our turn on, when we're thinkingabout it's our partners, like
they didn't do it like this orthey didn't do it like that, or
we've been out in the sun allday, or why are you annoying me
(21:48):
with X, y or Z?
We, as women, we can becomepunishing and want to withhold
sex, or like you don't deserveit because you did da, da, da,
da, and we're not thinking abouthow does the phrase go.
I'm cutting my nose to spite myface, like I am taking away
pleasure from my partner, butit's also mine, oh my God.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
The punishing pattern .
Oh my God, that is so rewardedin our society as well.
You withhold your sex.
You punish him with it.
Oh my God, I definitely did notmention that on the before side
.
That was definitely somethingthat I did.
It was a commodity, it was likemore commerce, right when now
(22:30):
we're taking responsibility forour turn on.
We're taking responsibility forour life.
Sometimes, when you're having aconflict with your partner or
things just aren't, you know,going smoothly, you could just
have sex, you can fuck it out.
That moves the energy, you know.
But if you withhold it, thenyou're not tapping into that
(22:54):
resource because your turn on.
Your sexuality, your sensuality, is a resource and you can use
it.
But if you're holding it as acommodity and putting it up and
withholding it from your partner, you're also withholding it
from yourself.
I don't think that we thinkabout that so much.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
No, I don't think we think about it.
But there are tons of thingsaround sex that we don't think
about Like so our turn on shouldreally be our responsibility.
Like am I resourced enough?
Do I need a babysitter?
Do I need a housekeeper?
Yes, these might be luxuries tohave.
It may not be on everybody's.
(23:36):
I can list, but it does help.
Like having solid assist helpson like lower and diminish your
to-dos on your to-do list.
If you have tons ofresponsibility, bringing outside
help to help with certainchores is going to help your
to-do list dwindle.
So sometimes we're responsiblefor our turn on, for just being
(23:59):
resourced or chores in the house.
Or maybe it means that we'renot working those extra hours,
we're not doing the overtime.
Maybe it means we're notworking weekends.
Maybe it means we're taking aday off so that we can be with
our spouses, we're doingsomething so that we have our
time with them.
So our turn on is really ourresponsibility.
(24:19):
It's not up to them to make usin the mood.
Also, whenever we withhold, likeyou said, brenda, we're
withholding from ourselves aswell.
It's very bizarre, but we do dothat.
Society applauds that and weare much better as women when
we're well-fed sexually.
It just is a truth.
(24:40):
And I'm not saying that we haveto have unconditional sex or
that we have to have sex out ofpartnership.
I just mean, let's be honest,usually well-fed women are
better off and that just is likeit's part of and I would say
men too, like anybody who'ssexually fed is better off.
But it is our responsibility tolook at if there are
(25:03):
circumstances that are in theway that are making it difficult
for us to be turned on, that weaddress them, that we
communicate it with our partners, because it's our
responsibility to say the thingAmen.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
This is such a huge myth in our world that somebody
else is responsible for our turnon.
It's really the biggestdifference of before and after
is being externally oriented,like oh, I'm turned on by X, y,
z, as opposed to beinginternally oriented and really
(25:34):
attuning.
Like you said so beautifullybefore what do I need?
What do I need to give myselfso I feel resourced in life?
How can I take care of myselfin all the ways so that I feel
juicy and fulfilled and turnedon?
And I don't mean turned on in asexual sense, I mean turned on
(25:55):
in life, like turned on in life.
Are you pursuing projects thatyou like?
Do you like your job?
Are you having fun times?
Are you getting good sleep?
Are you going to see that movie?
Are you going to get that steakthat you want?
What is it that you want inyour life?
(26:15):
What are some of the littlerdesires?
Are you giving them to yourselfso that you feel fulfilled and
you're coming to the table likea well-fed, juicy woman?
Amen, I love that.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Thank you so much for saying that so beautifully.
Amen, I love that.
Thank you so much for sayingthat so beautifully, absolutely.
I think the thing that we'rereally touching here is that, as
women who have studied desire,the difference for sex and life
before was well, maybesomething's wrong with me, or
what is this person doing or notdoing, as opposed to after
(26:50):
studying desire, really seeinghow responsible we are like,
really seeing all the placeswhere it's our responsibility
Ultimately, seeing that ourinternal world, we are
responsible for that, whetherit's turn on for sex or just
turn on for life.
That it is and it fallsunderneath our own
responsibility, and if it's notthere, then by God, we need to
(27:13):
go get it and make it happen.
With that, I want to say if youloved this episode, follow,
like, share, leave a review onApple Podcasts, thank you very
much, and send us a screenshotUntil next time.
Thank you for joining us on theDesire is Medicine podcast
(27:36):
Desire invites us to be honest,loving and deeply intimate with
ourselves and others.
You can find our handles in theshow notes.
We'd love to hear from you.
Welcome to Desire is Medicine.
We are two very different womenliving a life led by desire,
inviting you into our world.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Brenda.
I'm a devoted practitioner tobeing my fully expressed true
self in my daily life.
Motherhood relationships and mybusiness Desire has taken me on
quite a ride and every day Ipractice listening to and
following the voice within.
I'm a middle school teacherturned coach and guide of the
feminine.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the
truest and hopefully thehighest version of me.
I don't have children, I'venever been married.
I've spent equal parts of mylife in corporate as in some
down and low shady spaces.
I was the epitome of tired andwired and my path led me to
explore desire.
I'm a coach, guide, energyworker and a forever student.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Even after decades of inner work, we are humble
beginners on the mat, stillexploring, always curious.
We believe that listening toand following the nudge of
desire is a deep spiritualpractice that helps us grow.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
On the Desires Medicine podcast.
We talk to each other, weinterview people we know and
love about the practice ofdesire, bringing in a very
important piece that is oftenoverlooked being responsible for
our desire.
Welcome back listeners, family,friends.
(01:34):
Thank you so much for listeningand taking some time out to
welcome Brenda and I on anotherepisode of Desire as Medicine.
Desire such a big topic.
Desire Such a big topic, so bigthat we have over 100 episodes
just on desire.
It's so wild.
Right here is this thing that'ssomewhat benign, where you think
about it like goal setting.
(01:55):
It's something that you feel inyour body, and yet we've talked
about it from all differentsides of the coin and we're
continuing to do so.
Today we're talking aboutdesire and sex.
There are so many ways todiscuss sex, of course, just as
(02:20):
there are so many ways todiscuss desire.
We're going to talk about ittoday from the perspective of
how does sex look differentbefore you practice desire or
study desire, and how does sexlook after you practice desire
specifically?
And one of the little locationsthat we'll be looking at is
what it has meant for either oneof us around loss of desire for
(02:45):
sex, and we're not looking tocreate any problems.
We're looking at this with tonsof love and compassion and
hopefully, if you fall in any ofthese places, you can also dose
yourself with a lot of love.
Brenda, what was your desirefor sex before?
(03:06):
What was it like before youstarted practicing desire?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
This is a great question and such a good topic.
My desire for sex was veryresponsive and, I would say,
conditional, before I started onthis path of studying pleasure
and desire, embodiment, truth,all of that.
It was very responsive.
It was like, oh, I'm in themood, or I'm not in the mood, or
(03:33):
met someone new and things arehot and heavy about I just
thought that's the way.
It was Like, oh, you just wantto have sex all the time, or
you're just not in the mood, oryou get into a fight, something
happens and that's what kind ofinterrupts the desire for sex.
Or sometimes you just get fullright Like you've satisfied that
(03:57):
itch so much.
But it wasn't something that Ireally thought about.
I just thought, oh, if I'm withsomeone and I love them, then I
should want to have sex withthem, and if I don't, then it's
a problem.
And so that created a lot ofproblems, because none of that
(04:18):
is really true.
We go through cycles, our bodyis always changing as a woman,
and what we wanted yesterday wedon't want today.
And in the past I definitelymade that a problem, or found my
partner wrong, or found thewhole relationship wrong, or
thought I needed a differentpartner instead of really
(04:40):
examining what was happeninginside of me.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Well, I love that you brought into the conversation
that we change and somethingthat we liked yesterday like we
don't like today, and yourpartner can easily look at you
and say, but you liked ityesterday and you're like, yeah,
I didn't like it today, and howto have approval for that?
I think it's a lot easier tohave approval for that when you
(05:06):
know, oh, this is completelynormal, like it's completely
normal to enjoy this activity orsex in this way for this long,
and then all of a sudden wantsomething different, or this
doesn't necessarily satisfy mein the same way as it did
yesterday, and that's okay,there's nothing wrong, this is
not a problem.
What I need is to just be ableto describe and communicate what
(05:31):
I do want.
That's what's most important.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
That's the hardest part.
I think that's where we gettripped up and I think that's
where I used to get tripped up.
I just thought this wassomething that, like your body
did and you just kind of it justkind of went on its own.
I was like, what I need to say,what I want?
I need to be responsible forthis.
I mean, those weren't wordsthat I used in the past, but wow
(05:55):
, that's really a lot.
That's a hard thing for mostwomen to do is to say what you
want and then also, that pieceof what worked yesterday doesn't
work today is sometimesconfusing to us as women, let
alone be in approval of that andthen communicate it to your
(06:16):
partner and we do change.
I told the story a couple ofepisodes ago about the
Pellegrino that I was datingsomeone and he asked me what I
wanted.
And I said, oh, I thePellegrino that I was dating
someone.
And you know, he asked me whatI wanted and I said, oh, I love
Pellegrino.
And the next time I went there,the entire fridge was filled
with bottles of Pellegrino,right, well, it's up to us to
tell our partners what we want,and then it's also up to us to
(06:36):
tell our partners.
I've had enough, I'm full,thank you, thank you so much,
and now I would like sparklinggrape juice or whatever.
We have to be aware of that.
We have to be in approval thatwhat we want changes, and that's
kind of the fun part of being awoman.
Let's be real, and it can becomplex and confusing because we
(06:59):
have to understand it and thencommunicate it.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
I love how you say the fun part of being a woman.
It is definitely not in theowner's manual.
Society tends to look at us ascomplicated.
Or she must be on her period,or she must be in a mood, or
some version of that, someversion of that, and I think we
(07:30):
contribute to it by not being anapproval of.
Oh, this changed for me, andthat's okay.
Nobody died, like there's nogrief here.
I just want something differentand that's okay.
Like I can ask for the newthing.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Totally, and it's like getting to know yourself so
well that you could actuallygive your partner an owner's
manual about yourself.
Right and ideally.
This takes time to build.
Which is the joy of having alonger relationship is that you
can tell your partner what youwant and how you work, and then
they can give it to you or atleast do their best or at least
(08:10):
understand how you tick.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Well, the hope is that, if you are in a long-term
partnership, that you have beenpracticing along the way, having
this then be easier than a newpartner, because you have had
more conversations and you'vehad more reps around this
particular cycle of uh-oh, mydesire changed Totally.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I don't always find it easier in a long-term
relationship to say the thingsthat I want.
It really depends.
(09:15):
Sometimes it is really easy, toour point from two minutes ago.
Sometimes it's really easy andsometimes I'm like I feel like
choked up, I'm like I can't getit out.
Sometimes it's just sovulnerable, so vulnerable to say
what we want.
Somebody finds it wrong or likewhy do you want that?
Society definitely does that.
You're selfish.
Why do you want that?
Oh, you had that yesterday andnow you want more.
Like we don't really awarddesire in that way.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
No, it's like why do you want that?
You don't need it.
Like, why do you need that?
It's fine, you can do withoutit.
It's luxurious or opulent orabundant, Like you don't need
that.
And so we're looking at thisfrom the perspective of having
approval for our changingdesires.
And let's talk about whathappens when our desire for sex
(10:11):
goes flat.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
And specifically, let's talk about how you looked
at it going flat before studyingdesire.
I would think something's wrong.
Something's wrong.
Well, I didn't really thinksomething was wrong with me.
I thought something was maybewrong with him or the
relationship it was, and it wasin a way, responsive.
It was like, oh, we got into afight or he did something that
(10:34):
disgusted me or I didn't likethe way he said X, y, z, and now
I don't want to have sex andthat really would throw me off.
So I was in confusion, I was inblame, I would shut down, I
didn't quite know how tocommunicate those things or call
(10:56):
a girlfriend.
Or when I called a girlfriendback then, it was a lot of
colluding because we just aswomen generally in our society,
I think want to find men wrongand we want to find ourselves
right.
I mean, we want to be right,right.
So it was a lot of finding itwrong and thinking there was a
(11:16):
problem instead of justaccepting it as part of life.
Just part of life.
We're not going to be likehorny and wanting sex all the
time.
Who would do the dishes?
How would we eat?
How would we get the kids tosoccer.
Practice Like this isn't justthe way our bodies and life
(11:38):
works.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Who would do the dishes For me.
There was a time when I wasprobably moving too fast, had
too many things happening and Ifelt like, oh my God, sex is
another thing on my to-do list,even though we both are talking
about examples where we hadalready been having sex and we
(12:00):
knew the pleasures of it, andstill it was like, ah, either
you did something, I'm mad atyou or I have so much to do.
Do I really want to do this?
Like, if I do this, this isgonna take an hour or two hours
out of my day and I have allthese other things on here.
This is sort of like our takeon it.
(12:20):
When we were pre-studying desire, I want to say and so for me, I
was annoyed.
For sure, I wasn't necessarilywithholding sex because
something had gone wrong with usthat wasn't necessarily my MO,
but if I had too much, it wasreally hard for me to drop in
and reconnect with myself, andthat was the hurdle at that time
(12:44):
.
But then, after Desire, afterstudying Desire, I think this
changes right.
So what happened for you whenyou started to practice and feel
into what you like, what youwant, like?
How did those things change foryou?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
You know, I just need to go back a little micro step,
because you brought up a reallygreat point that I really need
to speak to, which is it feltlike something else to do on my
to-do list.
That is a really big spot forwomen, and if you're working, if
you're married, if you havechildren, whatever it is, we can
get really busy and it can feellike a chore, even if we know
(13:20):
that we like sex.
Somebody said to me once womenforget how much they like sex,
and I think that there is atruth to that, that men don't
forget but women forget.
I definitely can forget, butwhat I want to say is being a
new mom oh my goodness, talkabout no desire for sex.
Your body had just went throughthis big transition.
(13:41):
You're breastfeeding I wasbreastfeeding You're holding a
baby all day long.
You're not necessarily gettingout, you're not necessarily
looking your best, you're notreally feeling sexy, and it
feels like something to do.
It feels like a chore and thatcan be really confusing and
(14:03):
really hard to communicate andreally hard for your partner to
understand, especially if youdon't know how to communicate it
.
Well, I'm just going to talkheteronormatively.
Men need other men.
When a woman has a baby.
Her man needs other men to goto.
(14:25):
He needs other resources to goto, not just you, so that we can
talk about these things incommunity, because otherwise
it's very, very confusing.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
You said you know you don't know how to communicate
that.
Well, I mean, how would youcommunicate it now with the that
?
Well, I mean, how would youcommunicate it now with the
information you have?
Like, how do you communicatethat?
Well, you just had a baby?
You don't feel like it.
Do you have any tips there?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Well, that's a great question.
First of all, just having moreawareness about my body and just
being able to communicate thatwhich starts way before you had
a baby.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
This is not what I was right.
That's what I was thinking.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah Well, you're 100% correct.
It starts and this could betranslated to anything like
starting a new job or having anybig change in life it starts
way before.
This is why we practice, sothat when it's time for the game
, we know how to act.
But there's also so many otheroptions on the table besides sex
(15:25):
, besides penetrative sex.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yes, I was just kind of pointing to specifically you
said.
Well, I didn't assert we don'talways have the tools there and
I'm going.
Well, even with tools, this isprobably a really difficult
conversation.
But to your point yes, evenwith tools, this is probably a
really difficult conversation.
But to your point yes, if we dostart having this conversation
way before baby's, even in theroom, then it's so much easier.
Hey, I've heard that this canhappen to women.
(15:50):
I'm really afraid that thishappens to me and if this
happens to me, what the impactis on our relationship?
Like, is there something thatwe can set?
Like, can we have a spelunker?
Can we have some kind ofguardrail?
Can we bring something into therelationship and relating with
one another around sex whenthere is a newborn and I am
feeling like I haven't showered,like how do we?
(16:11):
And sex isn't top of mind for anew mom?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
No, it's really not.
And exactly to your point.
I think the communication isreally most important thing.
And then, really talking aboutit, you might not know this
before you have your first needsmet without having sensual or
penetrative sex?
(16:42):
You can cuddle, you can toucheach other.
There's so much that you cantalk about.
What are your desires?
We all have different needs anda lot of people really do have
the need for physical touch.
Sometimes the only way thatthat's met is through sex.
Well, this is a greatopportunity to explore what else
(17:03):
is available.
How can we meet this need forconnection, for skin-to-skin
contact?
You know, to feel good andclose without sex, and just
having that conversation andkind of bearing your heart in
that way touches on that reallydeep spot of connection that
(17:24):
we're really looking for.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Yeah, Thank you for that, thank you for circling
back, and now I'm going to goback to you and ask you the same
question, because you didn'tanswer that one.
You took me all the way back tobabies and mamas and sex, no
sex.
So we are talking about how doyou see or feel into your desire
(17:48):
for no sex now that you havestudied desire?
It's a really good question.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I think it's just having approval for the process.
I mean, sometimes I just don'thave a desire for sex.
I am in a long-termrelationship and it just happens
, and I've learned to not turnaway from my partner when that
happens.
I've learned to turn in andjust name it, just say, oh, I'm
(18:17):
not really feeling like havingsex today or this week, or oh, I
haven't really been in the moodlately.
Just saying that kind of meltsthe room in a way, you know,
because I think men can getscared, especially if they have
a history of not getting the sexthat they want.
Whatever it is like that hascome up in my relationship, just
(18:39):
me being loving and kind andthoughtful and saying, oh, let's
snuggle, or just havingconnection in a different way.
So for me, the ultimate thatI'm pointing to is communicating
it and just being in approvalof it myself.
And I'm going to keep goingback to it, because when we're
in approval of somethingourselves and I say, okay, this
(19:02):
isn't a problem, I'm just maybenot in the mood or I'm busy, or
right now we actually do have alot of family things going on
and it's has been a littlecrunchy sometimes and I haven't
really been in the mood.
So communicating that and beingin approval is for me really
huge, because that is what movesthe needle, and then also
(19:27):
noticing when I do have thespark of desire acting on that.
And sometimes it's not loudLike I think it really used to
be very loud, and sometimes it'sjust quieter these days, and
that's okay too.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
I think that's something to bring into the room
.
I do think that we have seasons, especially as we age as women,
that sex and desire begins tochange shape and form and you're
not just like horny all thetime, wet all the time, ready
all the time, and communicatingthat, I think, is really
important for sure, likebringing connection and that
(20:04):
your partner knows exactlywhat's occurring with you and
your body, so that you'reconnected over it and that it
doesn't feel like you're in yourcamp over there and they're in
their camp over there andthere's no connection.
It's either you are or aren'thaving sex.
It doesn't have to be that way.
It could be whether we are orwe aren't, we are connected and
(20:24):
I know what's happening to mypartner, especially in the realm
of turn on.
Like is my partner turned on?
What are the other options onthe table?
If one of us is not really likein the mood, does that mean
that we get in the mood or not?
Are we ready to just put thekibosh on this or something else
?
(20:44):
One of the things that Brendaand I talk about often.
I don't think we've had apodcast on this often.
I don't think we've had apodcast on this.
But we are responsible for ourown turn on and I think before
Desire, I was kind of lazy, so Iwould say that I when I say
lazy, I mean I only wanted todate people that I was turned on
(21:08):
with or by.
I didn't necessarily have to orwant to work on that, but
because I feel that chemistry isa very undertapped resource,
but we are responsible for itand if something's in the way of
our turn on, it's ourresponsibility to bring it to
our partners.
If something's in the way ofour turn on because of
circumstance.
(21:28):
I think it's also ourresponsibility to share that
Amen, it's really true, yeah, Imean when we're thinking about
our turn on, when we're thinkingabout it's our partners, like
they didn't do it like this orthey didn't do it like that, or
we've been out in the sun allday, or why are you annoying me
(21:48):
with X, y or Z?
We, as women, we can becomepunishing and want to withhold
sex, or like you don't deserveit because you did da, da, da,
da, and we're not thinking abouthow does the phrase go.
I'm cutting my nose to spite myface, like I am taking away
pleasure from my partner, butit's also mine, oh my God.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
The punishing pattern .
Oh my God, that is so rewardedin our society as well.
You withhold your sex.
You punish him with it.
Oh my God, I definitely did notmention that on the before side
.
That was definitely somethingthat I did.
It was a commodity, it was likemore commerce, right when now
(22:30):
we're taking responsibility forour turn on.
We're taking responsibility forour life.
Sometimes, when you're having aconflict with your partner or
things just aren't, you know,going smoothly, you could just
have sex, you can fuck it out.
That moves the energy, you know.
But if you withhold it, thenyou're not tapping into that
(22:54):
resource because your turn on.
Your sexuality, your sensuality, is a resource and you can use
it.
But if you're holding it as acommodity and putting it up and
withholding it from your partner, you're also withholding it
from yourself.
I don't think that we thinkabout that so much.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
No, I don't think we think about it.
But there are tons of thingsaround sex that we don't think
about Like so our turn on shouldreally be our responsibility.
Like am I resourced enough?
Do I need a babysitter?
Do I need a housekeeper?
Yes, these might be luxuries tohave.
It may not be on everybody's.
(23:36):
I can list, but it does help.
Like having solid assist helpson like lower and diminish your
to-dos on your to-do list.
If you have tons ofresponsibility, bringing outside
help to help with certainchores is going to help your
to-do list dwindle.
So sometimes we're responsiblefor our turn on, for just being
(23:59):
resourced or chores in the house.
Or maybe it means that we'renot working those extra hours,
we're not doing the overtime.
Maybe it means we're notworking weekends.
Maybe it means we're taking aday off so that we can be with
our spouses, we're doingsomething so that we have our
time with them.
So our turn on is really ourresponsibility.
(24:19):
It's not up to them to make usin the mood.
Also, whenever we withhold, likeyou said, brenda, we're
withholding from ourselves aswell.
It's very bizarre, but we do dothat.
Society applauds that and weare much better as women when
we're well-fed sexually.
It just is a truth.
(24:40):
And I'm not saying that we haveto have unconditional sex or
that we have to have sex out ofpartnership.
I just mean, let's be honest,usually well-fed women are
better off and that just is likeit's part of and I would say
men too, like anybody who'ssexually fed is better off.
But it is our responsibility tolook at if there are
(25:03):
circumstances that are in theway that are making it difficult
for us to be turned on, that weaddress them, that we
communicate it with our partners, because it's our
responsibility to say the thingAmen.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
This is such a huge myth in our world that somebody
else is responsible for our turnon.
It's really the biggestdifference of before and after
is being externally oriented,like oh, I'm turned on by X, y,
z, as opposed to beinginternally oriented and really
(25:34):
attuning.
Like you said so beautifullybefore what do I need?
What do I need to give myselfso I feel resourced in life?
How can I take care of myselfin all the ways so that I feel
juicy and fulfilled and turnedon?
And I don't mean turned on in asexual sense, I mean turned on
(25:55):
in life, like turned on in life.
Are you pursuing projects thatyou like?
Do you like your job?
Are you having fun times?
Are you getting good sleep?
Are you going to see that movie?
Are you going to get that steakthat you want?
What is it that you want inyour life?
(26:15):
What are some of the littlerdesires?
Are you giving them to yourselfso that you feel fulfilled and
you're coming to the table likea well-fed, juicy woman?
Amen, I love that.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Thank you so much for saying that so beautifully.
Amen, I love that.
Thank you so much for sayingthat so beautifully, absolutely.
I think the thing that we'rereally touching here is that, as
women who have studied desire,the difference for sex and life
before was well, maybesomething's wrong with me, or
what is this person doing or notdoing, as opposed to after
(26:50):
studying desire, really seeinghow responsible we are like,
really seeing all the placeswhere it's our responsibility
Ultimately, seeing that ourinternal world, we are
responsible for that, whetherit's turn on for sex or just
turn on for life.
That it is and it fallsunderneath our own
responsibility, and if it's notthere, then by God, we need to
(27:13):
go get it and make it happen.
With that, I want to say if youloved this episode, follow,
like, share, leave a review onApple Podcasts, thank you very
much, and send us a screenshotUntil next time.
Thank you for joining us on theDesire is Medicine podcast
(27:36):
Desire invites us to be honest,loving and deeply intimate with
ourselves and others.
You can find our handles in theshow notes.
We'd love to hear from you.
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