February 19, 2025 • 56 mins
In this episode, Kiki brings us the crimes of Sante and Kenny Kimes Jr., and Rachel tells us about Anthonette Christine Cayedito who has been missing since 1986. We also talk about what we've been reading and watching.
Note: Kiki has the wrong episode again (what else is new). We will actually be discussing our next book two episodes from this one (episode 36).
Our next book is "The Dinosaur Artist: Obsession, Betrayal, and the Quest for Earth's Ultimate Trophy" by Paige Williams.
Sources:
Sante and Kenny Kimes Jr.
Diabolical Women "Sante Kimes" (Episode 1)
Wikipedia "Sante Kimes"
Anthonette Christine Cayedito
FBI Missing Persons "Anthonette Christine Cayedito" https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/anthonette-christine-cayedito
Unsolved "Anthonette Cayedito" https://unsolved.com/gallery/anthonette-cayedito/
Get in touch with us:
Instagram: Details Are Sketchy - @details.are.sketchy
Facebook: Details Are Sketchy - @details.are.sketchy.2023
Instagram: Kiki - @kikileona84
Instagram: Rachel - @eeniemanimeenienailz
Email: details.are.sketchy.pod@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Kiki.
And I'm Rachel and this isDetails are Sketchy A true crime
podcast, and I'm not even goingto pretend I know what episode
this is anymore, but I do knowthe next one is our book one.
Okay, I believe it's our bookone.
Yeah, so I think this is 33.
That's what I want to say.
Or episode I don't know, threeor four in the second season,
(00:24):
and let me, I think I might juststop saying episode numbers,
right.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Okay, let me.
Our book is going to be theDinosaur Artist by Paige
Williams.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Okay, I ordered it.
It's not coming until next week, if you want to listen along.
Follow along, follow along.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Follow along, yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Hear our thoughts.
Read the book.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah, they'll listen along to our commentary on it.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
There you go this week.
You're doing the Missing Person, yes, and I am doing the Case.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yep, okay, so I should take it away.
It so I should take it away.
Yes, it's my turn to take itaway.
I chose, with like five minutespreparation a case.
It's a cold case from the FBImost wanted list A missing child
(01:24):
.
She list a missing child.
She's not a child anymore.
She went missing on April 6,1986.
Her name Anthonette ChristineCayedito, and she went missing
from Gallup, new Mexico.
And, yeah, her information.
(01:47):
Her date of birth December 25th1976.
Her hair is brown.
Her height at the time of herdisappearance was 4'7".
Her sex female.
Nationality American.
I don't know why that'snecessary to put that.
Place of birth, new Mexico.
Eyes brown.
(02:08):
Weight, 55 pounds at the timeof her disappearance.
Her race biracial, nativeAmerican.
And white Scars and marks KayaDitto has freckles, pierced ears
, a scar on her knee and a scaron her lip.
Ears, a scar on her knee and ascar on her lip.
She has moles on her back,right cheek, nose, left and
(02:34):
right hands and her right ankle.
Remarks Cayadetto is of Navajoand Italian descent.
At the time of herdisappearance she wore glasses.
She was known to wear a silverchain with a small turquoise
cross pendant.
Antoinette Cayadetto was lastseen at her family's residence
in Gallup, new Mexico on April 6, 1986.
She was last seen wearing apink nightgown.
If you have any informationconcerning this person, please
(02:56):
contact your local FBI office ornearest American embassy or
consulate Field office isAlbuquerque.
Okay, so I'll have a little bitmore information about her
later.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Okay, sounds good.
Yeah, she'd be what 50?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, or almost 50, 49.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yep, Okay.
So yeah, she'd be a grown-asswoman now.
Yeah, she would, but it's crazyto see she's.
We're done Not crazy I'm tryingnot to use that word, but it's
intense, that's a better word Tosee this missing poster of her
(03:36):
and she's just a sweet littlekid.
Oh, it's hard to imagine.
I mean, hopefully she is outthere as an adult woman
somewhere.
But you know, like when youlook at your own kids or I look
at my kids, it's hard to imaginewhat they'll be like as adults.
(04:00):
Yeah, yeah, I imagine, eventhough this woman is older than
me.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Still, I mean, when you're looking at a picture and
she's quite young, okay, so I amdoing Shante and Kenny Kimes.
Now some people pronounce itShante, other people pronounce
it Sante.
It's S-A-N-T-E, okay, but Idon't know.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Do you know how she pronounced it?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
No, so I mainly got my information from Diabolical
Women, episode 1, shantae Kimes,but there are lots of different
episodes from various series,like I think even Dateline did
one.
I know they did an interview on60 Minutes.
I intended to watch all of thembut life got in the way.
(04:52):
Right, yeah, it's a lot ofwatching.
It is a lot of watching.
I had intended to do it all onFriday but my hair appointment
took like three hours out of myday, right.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I was like never, never mind.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Are you happy with your hair?
I am.
It's quite light.
Yeah, it's cute.
That's a lot lighter than itwas, so we're thinking about it.
My, uh, my hairstylist movedsalons right and so they have
different, um kinds of likebrands and things, brands and
(05:27):
things, yeah.
So she's not entirely sure whatwe had used last time, based on
the new brand.
So, yeah, it's a bit lighter,but that's okay, makes sense.
Yeah, it's all right.
I don't know, I go much lighter.
I might be gray or white you cango like silvery white yeah, I
(05:48):
don't think I want to do that,though I want to.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I want to coast into my gray hair our mutual friend
always has been a big fan ofsilvery white hair and she's
always said that, that she can'twait to have silvery white hair
.
So that's what made me think ofthat.
This is her fondness forsilvery white hair.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, you may not get it, though you might just get
the angry gray.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, but you can always dye it silvery white.
That's true.
I think mine will probably goangry gray or whatever the hell.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
I call it angry.
Gray Reminds me of barbed wire,I guess yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Well, thanks for that flattering image.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Well, I'm going to have it too.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
No, I'll look at my hair in the future and be like
just like barbed wire.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
You may be lucky and it'll go white.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I've had a few strands and those strands appear
whitish, but that isn'tnecessarily reflective of the
whole thing.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
No, because you can be gray-white.
Yeah, yeah, okay anyway.
So we're talking about thecrimes of Shanti and Kenny Kimes
.
So on July 4th 1998, detectiveTom Hovigim received a missing
persons report.
82-year-old socialite andmultimillionaire, irene
(07:19):
Silverman, had vanished from herUpper East Side mansion.
Now, irene was not someone whowould wander away.
She was always at home and noone had heard from her Upper
East Side mansion.
Now, irene was not someone whowould wander away.
She was always at home and noone had heard from her.
The police canvassed theneighborhood, they started
looking for video andinterviewing the people that
knew her, and they also gave herpicture and information to the
news, hoping for publicassistance.
(07:39):
And within hours they get thenames of a couple of suspects.
They are identified as a widowand son of a wealthy developer
from California, 63-year-oldShante Kimes and 23-year-old
Kenny Kimes.
Now Shante is often describedas a glamorous grifter who's
(07:59):
been evading law enforcement orhad been evading law enforcement
for over 30 years.
Her rap sheet had everythingfrom petty theft to murder.
Her eldest son, kent, who'sinterviewed for this episode,
claims that she would shopliftfood to feed him and force him
to be her accomplice.
(08:20):
And it wasn't because theycouldn't afford food.
In fact, I think the husbandshe was with at the time was
quite wealthy.
She just liked stealing andbreaking the law.
Their relationship becamestrained.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
It's an interesting choice to steal food.
Usually, when you hear aboutpeople who are like shoplifting
addicts or whatever it's liketrinkets or things like that,
I'm sure she stole other things.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, he was.
I think he was just giving anexample of like she had to steal
food and most people would belike, well, you may have, you
may you know poverty or but it'snot true.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
They were millionaires, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Well, that's just gross.
It is gross, and she made himcommit those crimes with her.
Yeah, so Sante's childhood isimpossible to verify, according
to her own son.
He claims that some sources sayher mother was a sex worker,
while others say she was in hisword was reputable and she just
(09:27):
simply couldn't control her.
Either way, I guess she was putup for adoption at age 12.
She met her first husband inhigh school, or I think she was
adopted at age 12.
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
When she was put up for adoption, so she was rich,
but she had a background ofimpoverishment, though we don't
know If you said her mom waslike a sex worker and stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
But that's a.
They don't know that.
So some sources say yes andsome sources say she wasn't.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Oh okay, because I'm just throwing it out there that
sometimes you could have like apoverty trauma and that could
maybe cause that sort of thing.
Man, if she's just a psychopath, you'll see when we get going.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Sure, I'm not justifying her violent no, I
know, I'm just saying I mean she, she stole other things.
It wasn't.
Yeah, she'd steal anything shecould get her hands on.
So she met her first husband inhigh school and they married
five years later, aftergraduation.
They had a nice life, butShante would rack up bills, in
(10:37):
part because of her shoplifting.
She would also burn down housesto collect insurance.
She had multiple affairs,including one with her husband's
business partner.
They divorced in 1967, and shebegan immediately looking for a
new millionaire.
She set her eyes on KennethKimes, who she saw in a magazine
(11:00):
and she was like him.
I'm going to get him.
He was worth about $22 million,which was quite a lot in 1970.
They had one son, kenny Kimes,in 75.
Kent, who was 13 years olderthan Kenny, worried about him
because his mother was socontrolling and manipulative
(11:26):
controlling and manipulative heeven tried to quote pull him out
of her grasp.
I don't know what that means.
I don't know if, like once hegot old enough, he tried to get
custody or if he just tried towarn him about the truth of
their mother.
I don't know what that?
means, but either way.
But kenny remained loyal toshantae and the brothers became
estranged and, according to Kent, even enemies.
(11:46):
Shante, her husband, and Kennymoved to Mexico in 1982.
Shante didn't want Kenny to goto school because she wanted
complete control, so she hired atutor for him tutor for him.
(12:07):
The tutor, named Teresa, wasinterviewed on this episode and
she claimed that Shantae moldedKenny to be just like her, for
example to talk just like her.
One time she also got mad atTeresa for trying to teach Kenny
not to lie.
She allegedly said there is atime to lie and a time not to
lie and she would be the one toteach him.
That said there is a time tolie and a time not to lie and
she would be the one to teachhim that.
She also bullied a pregnanthousekeeper who's from El
(12:28):
Salvador.
I think her name was Gloria.
Well, they lived in Mexico.
The housekeeper was never paidand was forced to work,
basically from the time she wokeup until the time she went to
bed at night.
So the housekeeper was a slave.
Yes, we're getting there.
One night, sante took Gloria,the housekeeper, and Teresa to
dinner at a local restaurant.
(12:49):
According to Teresa, theyordered and then Shante told
Gloria, let's go.
Shante and Gloria left therestaurant and Shante returned
15 minutes later without Gloria.
Teresa said that when they gotback to the house all of
Gloria's things were still inthe home, but she was not there
(13:11):
and she has never been found.
Later, shante stole Teresa'spurse, which had basically her
whole life in it.
I mean, it was her passport,her money, all of that stuff.
So Teresa was then at Shante'smercy, like she couldn't just go
and get a new ID.
She couldn't, just she couldn'tprove who she was.
(13:31):
So Shante told Teresa that shehad to smuggle women into the
country for her so that shecould have maids without having
to pay them.
Shante had two girls I'm notsure if they were girls or if
they were just young women fromGuatemala for Teresa to smuggle
across.
Now Teresa said she didn't wantto do it, but she felt that she
(13:54):
didn't really have a choice andshe had to get to the US side
and then she could talk tosomebody and get it figured out.
But she just needed to get backhome.
Shante dropped the girls andTeresa off near the border and
left, and the girls walked alongthe beach until they came to an
inlet that they then had tocross to get to the United
States.
(14:14):
A lifeguard sees them and takesthem to safety because I guess
the tide was really bad and theycould have been swept out, and
so he takes them to the US sideand, for whatever reason, they
are not reported to bordercontrol.
All three were picked up by theKimeses and taken to Las Vegas
where they were essentially heldlike prisoners.
After two months Kenneth Kimestook pity on Teresa and bought
(14:40):
her a ticket to visit her family.
When she finally got to herfamily she went to the FBI and
she told them about Shante,about keeping the girls and all
of that stuff, and she said shedidn't really have any proof.
But in August of 1985, shanteand her husband are arrested and
charged with involuntaryservitude for keeping maids as
(15:01):
slaves in their home.
Kenneth took a plea deal so hedidn't have to do time, but
Shante decided to stay on trial.
Her trial was held in 1986, andshe was ultimately convicted
and sentenced to five years.
She only served three.
By all accounts.
Shante became even moredangerous once she was released.
(15:23):
In 1994, kenneth Kynes diedsuddenly from aortic aneurysm.
He left Shante some money, butit wasn't enough for her and she
believed that he had diedleaving millions in offshore
accounts, and she was worriedthat there were other heirs from
(15:44):
his previous marriage.
So she wanted to get the moneybefore any possible heirs could.
So she concocted a scheme to dothat.
So she and Kenny who is at thispoint 21, tried to use forged
documents to access thoseaccounts.
But a man named Saeed BalilAhmed accounts.
(16:12):
But a man named Saeed BalilAhmed, a Bahamian banker, asked
too many questions, and soShantae invited him over for
dinner.
She gave him a spiked cocktail.
Once he passed out, she andKenny took him to the bathtub,
where Kenny attempted to drownhim, but he started to wake up.
Where Kenny attempted to drownhim, but he started to wake up.
So Kenny called Shantae in tohelp him hold him down while he
drowned him.
The body was subsequentlydisposed of in the ocean the
(16:36):
next day and has never beenfound.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
So she probably disposed of the maze slave in
the ocean too.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
It's possible, yeah, although I don't know how she
could have gotten to the oceanin just 15 minutes.
But I don't know how she couldhave gotten to the ocean in just
15 minutes, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Maybe she stowed the body somewhere and then to the
leader.
Yeah, possible, because 15minutes is not a big window for
anything.
No, unless she stowed her likea dumpster or whatever, because
there's this episode of the Kingof the Hill where there's like
a murder or whatever in the, orit seems like a murder, I think
(17:12):
it ends up being an accidentaldeath, but the body is found in
like a dumpster behind arestaurant.
So that made me think of thatas well.
Like that would be somewherequick to stow a body.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yep, okay.
So Shante and Kenny never foundthe money and they wind up
fleeing to Los Angeles andsearch for money somehow.
So their new target is theirlongtime acquaintance, david
Kasdan, who was an LAbusinessman and he had done some
real estate transaction withthe Kimeses before.
(17:48):
So in January 1998, shantebegan to forge David's name on
documents.
She took out a $200,000mortgage on the Las Vegas house
in David's name.
So somehow she managed to keepthe judgments during her trial
in the 80s by signing it over toDavid.
So I guess that means she'sable to keep the property during
(18:08):
her trial in the 80s by signingit over to david.
So I guess that means she'sable to keep the property by
putting it in david's.
Yeah, so david found out aboutthe mortgage when he received a
phone call from a collectionsagency about not paying the
mortgage payment.
So when shanti and kennyrealized that david was not only
on to them but also wasn'tgoing to help them, they knew
(18:30):
they would have to kill him.
And in February 1998, shanteordered Kenny to kill him.
So Kenny, with an accomplice,drove to David's house.
The accomplice stayed outsideand he heard a pop what he
described as a gunshot, and heheard a pop what he described as
a gunshot.
Kenny then waved him in and hewent inside the house and he saw
(18:53):
that David had been shot andwas lying on the kitchen floor.
They took David and headed downto the airport area.
They put him in the trunk andthen headed down to the airport
area where they parked the car,changed clothes and saw a movie
and then discarded the body andafter he was done, kenny bought
(19:15):
shantae some flowers tocelebrate.
Wow.
So there's always been questionsabout their like the true
nature of their relationship,like was it just mother and son
or was there like an incestuous?
Yeah, whatever?
Yeah, because they definitelydid things that made it seem
more like a romanticrelationship than father and son
(19:37):
.
The next day, the lapd got acall about a body in a dumpster,
just like you thought by lax.
They find out that it's david,through fingerprints.
His daughter, when they tellher about it, tells them that he
(19:58):
was very fearful of shantae andkenny kimes and that they had
been harassing him aboutsomething he was seemingly
involved in.
So within days, the trail ledpolice to a room in a Bel Air
mansion where Shante and Kennyhad been hiding out.
They had obviously taken off ina hurry, leaving a bunch of
(20:18):
possessions behind.
The one clue that thedetectives have to track the
Kimeses is the luxury car theyhad been driving.
I think it was a lincoln towncar.
Yeah, they show pictures of itand they kept calling it a
luxury car and I guess it was aluxury car, but it does.
By today's standards it doesnot look like a luxury car, it
(20:41):
looks like a dad car yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
okay, so the no.
But there's definitely a timewhen those kind of cars were
less ostentatious but like Idon't know if they were supposed
to be really smooth riding andthe interiors were blah, blah,
blah.
Yeah, those were some kind ofclass of luxury car.
Reminds me of Hannibal,although these people are
(21:05):
definitely not Hannibal.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
I mean nobody's Hannibal, because Hannibal is a
fictional character and not areal serial killer.
No that like he has to maintainhis like bougie lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
And drive a fancy car and like order fancy wines and
shit like that, and so that'show the FBI is able to track him
down after he escapes.
If you feel spoiled fromHannibal, it's been out for a
really long time, so yeah, okay,so they have the luxury car.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
So the police found that the car had been
fraudulently purchased in cedarcity, utah, and that allowed the
lapd to contact the police inutah and get a local warrant
that would allow them to takethem into custody for their,
their, for that multi-statewarrant.
I'm sorry if you can hear mylike cough drop in my mouth.
(22:11):
It's that or coughing so, butthe kimes were already heading
east across the country and injune 1998 they arrived in new
york city to pull off theirbiggest scam yet.
So they had researched wealthywidows with no relatives and in
(22:36):
their research they found82-year-old Irene Silverman from
the beginning, oh no who owneda Manhattan mansion, not poor
82-year-old Irenene silverman.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
She sounds like a sweetheart, I know, I don't know
, like ladies named irene.
For some reason they sound likelike a kind of sweet old lady
that will feed you like hardcandy from like a crystal bowl
yeah, she seemed like.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
She sounded like a cool lady.
So she owned a Manhattanmansion and that mansion was
divided up into 10 individualapartments and suites and Irene
would rent them out, sosometimes there would be up to
(23:25):
10 tenants in her house.
So Kenny rented an apartment Iguess it's more like just like a
one room, I think that's whatit sounded like.
So he rented an apartment inthe mansion using a fake
reference and the alias MannyGurin.
Shanti moved in with him oneweek later and they were sharing
(23:47):
a bed urine.
Shanti moved in with him oneweek later and they were sharing
a bed.
So that is another reason peoplequestion their uh relationship.
The plan was to swindle ireneout of the mansion, so she
forged papers to transfer thetitle into her name.
Uh shante did that.
The Kimeses also called anotary over to have the deed
(24:10):
signed over.
The second part of the plan wasto kill Irene, evict the other
tenants as well as the staff.
I believe there was a staff ofsix.
So Shante hired a man thatworked for them before but
unbeknownst to them.
He had turned informant for theLAPD.
Once the police knew where theywere going to be at a specific
(24:31):
time and a specific place, theywere able to contact the NYPD
and the New York FBI and requestthey assist in arresting Shanta
and Kenny.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah, we gotta protect the sweet Irene at all
costs.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
So the LAPD and the FBI set up a sting with the
informant over the stolen carwarrant.
Then, on July 4th, the day ofIrene's annual Independence Day
party, irene spoke to herbuilding manager and friend,
jeff Feig, about the young maletenant, manny Gurin, and his
(25:07):
older female companion is whatthey called her.
According to Jeff, they talkedabout how Manny and the older
woman were not wanted there andthey were very concerned about
them.
They didn't say concerned aboutwhat specifically, just that
they were concerned and theydecided that they were going to
serve them with an evictionnotice the Monday after July 4th
(25:27):
, so on the 6th, I think wouldbe the day.
On July 5th, between 1 and 3 pm, manny carries out the plan.
He murdered Irene by stranglingher, oh no.
He then rolled her up in ashower curtain, put her in a
duffel bag, put her in the trunkof his car and then drove her
(25:49):
out to New Jersey and dumped her.
A few hours later thehousekeeper noticed that Irene
was missing and so she calledJeff.
The police learn about Mannyand how the staff and her
friends don't trust them, sothey go to his apartment to talk
to him.
But he's not there and neitheris the woman who stays with him.
(26:09):
So, shanti.
All the police find are ashower curtain with a missing
liner, and the curtain and therings were still in the
packaging they found gray ducttape and a plastic I'm sorry and
plastic garbage bags.
So, needless to say, the NYPDbegan their search for Manny.
(26:31):
So while the NYPD were lookingfor Manny, the LAPD and FBI were
setting their sting for Kennyand Shante.
Obviously, they don't know atthis point that they're actually
looking for the same people,that they're actually looking
for the same people.
Yeah, at 5 pm Shante shows up,or showed up to meet the
informant, and she was takeninto custody.
(26:53):
And then the NYPD observedKenny conducting
counter-surveillance and theytake him into custody as well.
They are told that they arebeing taken into custody on the
Utah warrant for grand larceny.
Within 24 hours the Kimeseswere officially prime suspects
in Irene's disappearance.
(27:15):
Now for the Irene Silverman case.
Shante and Kenny are chargedwith multiple counts, including
second-degree murder, becauseher body has never been found.
Yeah, the trial began in whathorrible people did they think
that they were going to get hermoney?
They thought they were going toget her mansion.
So the trial began in february2000 and it lasted for three
(27:38):
months, both shantae and kennyreceived life sentences with no
chance of parole.
Then in 2002, they are indictedin LA for the murder of David
Kasdan.
They have more evidence in thatcase than the Irene Silverman
case.
So, for example, mostimportantly they have the body.
So to avoid execution, theKimes' first need to admit guilt
(28:04):
, so Kent again first need toadmit guilt.
So Kent again that's Kenny'solder brother and Chante's
oldest son paid Kenny a visit inthe prison to try to convince
him to confess and ultimatelyKenny agreed to do so.
In June 2004, kenny pled guiltyto all the murders in a deal to
(28:24):
save himself and his motherfrom the death penalty.
Today, kenny is serving hislife sentence without parole in
California.
Shantae died of natural causesin a New York prison in 2014.
I believe she was 79.
So that's my very, very shortcase.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
She wasn't very imaginative at naming, was she
Kent?
Speaker 1 (28:51):
and Kenneth, kent and Kenny.
No Well, kenny was named afterKenneth, the husband.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Oh, okay, if she had a third one, then he would be
named like Kenward or somethingPossibly.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
She certainly was a diabolic woman.
Yeah, I mean, according to herson, she could convince anybody
to do anything.
Yeah, you know, she kind oflooked a little bit like
Elizabeth Taylor, did she?
Yeah, at least when she wasyoung.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yeah, because I wasn't really thinking about
what she looked like, but I waslike what a bitch, yeah, she is.
Well, I just mean.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
I think the implication is that she used her
beauty in her.
Her oldest son said she musthave been really good at sex
because that's the only way hecould think of.
She got so many men to do whatshe said, yeah, yeah, which
might be true.
She may not have actually sleptwith them, but she could have,
(29:54):
you know, implied, implied it.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Flirted yeah, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yes, Is this them?
No, that's the TV movie version.
Oh no, that guy is from TwinPeaks here I'll show you a
picture.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
I don't know what actors look like.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
So that's kind of more along the lines of how she
looked in her Elizabeth Taylorera.
Okay, I don't see any of her asa very young woman, but they
did show it on the show and shewas quite pretty.
Yeah, most of these are fromthe the movies.
(30:37):
So I mean, yeah, there's notreally much to say.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
They're terrible people indeed, although, yeah, I
mean obviously like he's agrown man, but there's something
to be said for grooming andmanipulation from oh yeah when
you're a kid.
So oh yeah, that's very fuckedup it is very fucked up.
He was definitely groomed luckyfor the older son to have
(31:06):
escaped that yeah, he had atemperament for, you know, not
falling in line.
Yeah, same yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Okay, Are we ready to hear more about Antoinette
Christine Cayadetto?
Sure, Okay, it says her motherwoke up to find she was not in
the house.
We went looking for her aroundthe house nothing, Sure, the
surrounding foothills Penny'sthe mother but found no trace of
the little girl.
Authorities were almost certainshe had been kidnapped.
(31:55):
The days stretched into weeksand then months.
Police could offer little tobolster Penny's hopes of ever
finding her daughter alive.
After a year had passed, allseemed lost.
A dramatic call for help cameinto the Gallup police station.
Oh shit, the voice claimed tobe Anthonyoinette Cayodetto and
(32:16):
the dispatcher asked where shewas.
But before the girl couldanswer, the call was ended by an
unidentified man.
Detectives played a recordingof the call for Penny Cayodetto.
I listened to the tape over andover and just by the way she
says her last name and the wayshe screams and chills all over
(32:36):
my body, a mother knows, and Iknew that it was her.
The phone call renewed hope forAntoinette's safe return.
However, four torturous yearspassed without any further clues
.
The FBI released twocomputer-enhanced photographs
showing what Anthonette mightlook like at the age of 14.
Four months later, according toagent Kevin Miles, the FBI, a
(33:00):
possible city of Anthonette wasreported in Carson City, Nevada.
A waitress in a restaurant inCarson City told the Carson City
police about a strange incidentshe had witnessed that
particular day.
She waited on a table at whichsat a male and a female, rather
unkempt, and a small girl aboutthe age of 14 or 15.
(33:21):
The girl would deliberatelydrop a utensil on the floor.
The waitress put the utensilback on the table and the little
girl grabbed her hand, and thewaitress thought nothing of it
and went about her business.
The threesome left therestaurant and the waitress went
back to the table and began tobust the table.
She lifted the plate belongingto the girl.
Beneath was a napkin that saidplease help me call the police.
(33:43):
By the time she realized whathad happened, the couple and the
girl were gone.
Shortly after the Carson Citysighting, Penny turned to her
own Native American heritage inthe search for Anthonette.
She and her other daughtervisited a respected Nadeau
Navajo medicine woman skilled inperforming traditional tribal
(34:03):
ceremonies.
The medicine woman performedthe crystal ritual, which is
said to make contact with thespirit of a missing person.
According to the medicine woman, Anthonette was still alive and
may have a child.
She was being held against herwill by threats of violence
somewhere in the southwest Penny, was amazed that the
(34:25):
information provided by themedicine woman was consistent
with the elements of thedetective's investigation.
Going to the medicine womangave me a lot of strength and it
helps me to just know that sheis alive.
No matter who she's with,they've got to have some
compassion, not to hurt another.
(34:45):
Being as small as she is,Athena Cayadento was nine years
old when she disappeared.
Today she would be in her 30s,Well, in her late 40s now.
Yeah, she has brown hair andbrown eyes.
Her birthday is December 25th.
Well, that was more harrowingthan I expected it to be.
Jesus.
Yeah, sounds like there's avery real possibility that she
(35:07):
is alive.
Yeah, could be, so that's awfulit is.
Is alive?
Yeah, could be, so that's awfulit is.
So if you're out there, anthony, I hope that you are safe and
can, yeah, are safe wherever youare, yeah, and have autonomy.
Yeah, okay, and yeah, that's mycase.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yeah, okay, and yeah, that's my case.
Alright, so I guess now it'stime for what you've been
reading, watching.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Yes, so what did we talk about last time?
I always forget, like, wheredid we leave off last time?
Let me check all my Goodreads.
Did I talk about Tess of theRoad last time?
Let me check all my good reads.
Did I talk about test of theroad last time?
Test of the?
What?
Test of the road?
That fantasy book I read, Idon't know.
So I read a fantasy book calledtest of the road.
(36:05):
So that was pretty.
Test of the road, test of theRoad, tess of the Road yeah, it
was pretty good.
It was darker than I expectedand it was not a romantic scene.
So, yeah, it was pretty good.
It was a bit of a growing upjourney kind of thing.
Yeah, this person coming of agethat's what I'm thinking of.
(36:32):
Coming of age story yeah, thisperson is finding themselves,
finding their footing and alsofinding forgiveness for
themselves for taking on theblame right of that in their
(36:53):
society and in many societiesthat women take on for just
existing and being part of theworld.
So, yeah, it was good.
It does have themes ofdepression, suicidal ideation,
(37:15):
sexual assault and emotionalabuse and things like that.
So that's something to, yeah,that's something to.
And generational trauma yeah,trauma, yeah.
(37:37):
So but yeah, I thought it waspretty good.
And uh, I read those across theriver by christopher bullman
about a couple who move intolike a southern community
because he's he wants to write abook about his great-granddaddy
plantation owner blah blah, eyeroll or whatever, but also
(38:02):
because him and his lady areescaping their reputations
because he's stole or not stolebut him and his current partner
(38:22):
are the product of infidelitybecause she was married to
another faculty member at theuniversity that he had been a
professor at, and they gottogether, and so it ruined his
reputation, it ruined his careerand
so they're escaping from thatand he's also escaping from PTSD
(38:45):
and they're moved to this placeand things are not quite right,
right?
So I don't want to give toomany spoilers.
I liked the beginning, I likedthe end.
I didn't like.
I felt like there were momentswhere, like, of course, they're
showing like this, like deepsouthern community with ties to
(39:10):
whatever slave ownership andstuff in the past and, of course
, deep racial tensions andthings like that.
But I thought at times, likeyou know how sometimes things
are unnecessarily, you know, andI felt like there were times
when they appropriately showedthat racial disparity and times
(39:36):
when the author was just likeit's fun to say the N-word, and
I was like you already got yourpoint across and you didn't need
to do it like 10 more times,right and so that, and you
didn't need to do it like 10more times, right and so that
(39:57):
part I didn't love and I I don'tknow.
There's some other things Iwould like to say about it, but
I can't really do so withoutgiving away spoilers for the
book.
So, but, um, for the genre thatit was in, I don't know, it
didn't excite me about thatgenre as much as I had hoped,
(40:18):
but there were definitelymoments that there were
definitely some good moments.
Is it like horror?
Yeah, it's horror, it's horror.
It's like a suspenseful horror,I would say, and like kind of
like a creeping dread thiscommunity is not quite right
kind of horror.
Okay, okay and yeah, but yeah,it's all right.
(40:43):
So yeah, maybe check it out ifyou like that sort of thing.
I definitely liked his vampirebook a lot better though.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Mm-hmm.
So, which one?
Speaker 2 (40:56):
was the vampire book.
Let me check out the name of it.
Just a second the Lesser Dead.
Yeah, that one was pretty fun.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Yeah, cool, I'm still reading the nonfiction from the
last time we talked theeverything must go.
Yeah, um, it's really good.
It's just I got sidetracked bya new book called um uh, dungeon
(41:27):
crawler carl it's, it'sactually really good.
I saw I I watch BookTubesometimes and one of my favorite
BookTubers, gavin, reads it all.
He was listening to it onAudible and he liked it so much
went and bought the hard copy.
So I guess my understanding,because I went and got it from
(41:58):
the barnes and noble in el pasoand the I guess he's the manager
of the store or something heran into me and he like couldn't
stop talking about it.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Yeah, um, but I guess it was like two words at barnes
and no, no no, no, a differentperson.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Oh okay, gaven's in england or something, okay I was
confused or gavin there is inengland people, I say gavin, but
it's gavin.
Uh, the manager saw me carryingthat along with some other
books and he talked about it alot.
He liked it so much he's buyingthe whole series as it comes
out.
Yeah, I guess it wasself-published, nice, and now
(42:38):
it's gotten such traction thatthey're it's getting a I don't
want to say proper publishing,but you know, like a, yeah, some
reputable, not reputable, but abig publishing house you know,
sometimes that's the fucking wayright, yeah so, um, the book is
about, uh, this guy who's justbroken up with his girlfriend
but she's out of town and sohe's, um, cat sitting and her
(43:03):
name is she has a really longname, but it's shortened to
princess donut and she's like anaward-winning cat, yeah, yeah.
And she gets stuck outside andit's a very cold night and he
runs out to get her.
He's dressed in his boxers anda jacket and like these pink
crocs that don't fit him I thinkit was the girlfriends, or
(43:24):
whatever, yeah, and all of asudden all of the buildings
collapse and pretty much anybodyor any living creature that was
inside something with a roof,even a car, die, oh no, and a
computer voice comes on and itsays you can either stay out
here and try to survive or youcan go into the tunnels and try
(43:44):
to survive there, and it's thisbig like RPG game, basically to
the death.
Like, you have levels, you haveto go up you level, you know
your strength, or blah, blah,blah.
You eventually have to pickyour class and your whatever you
want to be.
But it's, it's a, it's a lot offun.
The cat starts to talk and theguy becomes her manservant as
(44:09):
far as she's concerned and youknow that every floor has a boss
and whatever the goal is to getall the way down to the last
level.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
So is the cat the real hero.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
I don't know yet.
I'm only 100 pages in and it'slike a 500-page book and there's
eight of them apparently.
Yeah, so the goal is to getdown to the very last floor,
which I think is the 18th, andif you can get down there then
you can be the head of yourworld nobody's ever gotten down
there.
They've never.
I think the the farthest anyonegot was like the 12th floor and
(44:42):
they were killed immediately,yeah, so, um, they're just
trying to survive.
You can, once you get to thehigher levels, they have options
of you just kind of exiting,but you basically they haven't
set it out right but it'simplied that you kind of become
like a slave to the overlords ofthis world or this game or
(45:04):
whatever, and um, theyreincarnate you every time they
take over a planet.
But it's also also.
It's not just an RPG game, it'salso on television, it's a
reality TV game, and so you also, you can't just survive, you
have to get views and likes andsubscribers, yeah, and you can't
(45:24):
stay on a level.
It collapses after a certainamount of time.
Anyway, it's a lot of fun.
It sounds like fun.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Yeah, it's fun and it's amusing, so I've been
distracted with that you shouldsend me the name, because that
sounds like something I wouldwant to read too.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Okay, and I've also been continuing with the
Thursday Murder Club.
I just started the third one onaudio.
I really enjoyed the first twoon audio but they changed
narrators for the third one at.
The fourth one is anothercompletely new, and I haven't
listened to her.
But I don't like the third one.
No offense to the lady, I'msure she's fine, but now all the
(46:00):
characters sound different.
Yeah, you know that's annoying.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
Yeah I don't like that.
But like, on the flip side, Ialso don't like it when, like,
all of the books by the sameauthor are like narrated by the
same audiobook narrator, becausethen sometimes, like with the
Mona Awad books, it makes ithard for me to separate, like
(46:25):
the characters in the differentbooks, like it makes it almost
like it's like all one story.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
Yeah, Well, these are series and it's all the same
characters.
Yeah, no, I understand that um,in that case then, yes, I do
want the same voices yeah, um,and also I mean maybe it
wouldn't be such a big deal if Iwasn't reading them so close
together, like I literallystarted.
The third one this minute.
The second one ended and so itwas kind of jarring, you know,
(46:52):
yeah.
And so now I'm like wait, whatcharacter are we talking about?
Because that's not how theysounded.
The the other one, I'm sureshe's a fight narrator, I think
it's more of a my fault forlistening too close together.
I think they came out probablyyears apart, right?
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Originally.
Yeah, maybe that's.
Maybe the other narrators werenot available.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Yeah, so I guess that's all I've been reading,
watching.
What have I done?
Nothing, really, just BookTube.
I've been catching up on allthe BookTube I missed, yeah.
And so now I've got a bunch ofbooks I want to read that I
probably will never read.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
I'm so curious about like booktube, but like I don't
even know, like know like whereto start.
Like I, I have seen some videos, recommendations that just like
pop up, but like I don't want abillion like romantic
recommendations.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Like, like, like.
What would you like?
Because I don't even get anyromance right, like booktubers I
mean, you know what I like.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
I like horror, I like fantasy, but not romanticy.
I like uh, you know, likesci-fi, I like some mystery,
like you know, some like mixedgenre kind of things.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Um, I'll, I'll send you a few that I have.
They kind of do a mix ofeverything and from there you
can kind of I don't find people.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
I was reading a thread the other day about like
whatever romantician and like Ithink I really pinpointed
whatever this.
The thing that bothered meabout like romanticism is that
it's trying so hard to like fillall the like tropes or whatever
that, like romance readersexpect rather than and the, the,
(48:51):
the fantasy is like just thesetting, yeah, um, yeah, whereas
yeah, so I don't mind likeromance, like I'm not shitting
on romance although it's justnot the fantasy you want to read
yeah, exactly, I'd rather myfantasy be fantasy, with maybe a
little side romance.
(49:14):
Yeah, so anything else.
I also read the New Girl byJesse Q Sutanto and the
Collector by Laura Kat Young.
Okay, so those were the otherbooks that I read yeah what are
their genres?
Young adult, like kind ofthriller, and dystopian future,
(49:43):
dystopian kind of world.
The collector I feel like youngadult, the new girl one, it's
okay, like the protagonistaggravated me in some of her
like decision making, so um yeah, oh, is that the one you were
(50:08):
talking about, where, like shelike takes somebody out into?
Speaker 1 (50:14):
the woods or something and murders them and
there's like drugs involved, yep.
Yeah, she seemed like a I don'tknow.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
I think that this is one that maybe, like you know
how some young adult books are,like they're fine for adults to
read.
This one is more like it'sprobably more better for more
more better.
Well, I said I certainly I soundlike a teenager, so, um, but
yeah, it's probably more suitedfor actual teenagers yeah, so
(50:46):
because of their poor decisionmaking skills there were just a
lot of parts where I was justlike don't do that, you idiot
Right, and like you know, likehave some common sense, but like
, of course, in reality, mostteens don't have a lot of common
sense probably those decisionswouldn't seem so irrational to
(51:08):
an actual teen.
Yeah, yeah, the collector islike a slow burn, dystopian
future type of novel.
Yeah, it's kind of a world sortof Brave New World-esque, sort
of 1984.
(51:29):
People can't be depressed, orthey.
They get their memories wiped,yeah, but first they, uh, they
have to give a collection oflike one memory or whatever, to
like some for some databasealthough what is actually done
(51:50):
with all the memories in thedatabase is unknown, and it's
the job of this person tocollect these memories.
So this person has to show upand basically tell these people
that their memory is about to bewiped and even though I guess
whatever they're supposed tohave received correspondence in
(52:12):
the mail.
But of course these people aredepressed or grieving.
Grief is also considered ano-no.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:20):
And so they're upset, and so he has to convince them
to give a memory to thecollection and that he records
it.
And so, of course, incollecting all of these memories
and seeing all these people inthese harrowing moments, he of
course becomes depressed himselfand so he gets in trouble
(52:46):
himself.
So, yeah, that's a bit of asynopsis of what happens in that
book, and I'm currently readingum the new CJ lead book, which
is called American.
Speaker 1 (53:02):
Rapture.
I keep calling it American.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
Scripture.
I want to call it, I keepwanting to call it American
Psycho, different book.
I know, I know it's notAmerican Psycho, but I'm like
American, I'm like what comesnext.
Speaker 1 (53:17):
Yeah, no, I keep.
I.
That's why I keep sayingAmerican Scripture.
I know it's not AmericanScripture, but for some reason
that's what I keep thinking.
It is American Rapture.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
I'm not very far into it yet, but so far it's very
captivating.
I'm not very far into it yet,but so far it's very captivating
.
Different from Mayfly, butcaptivating in its own way and
very much same voice, yeah, sothat's good, yeah, yeah, it's
going to be hard for her to getaway from Mayfly.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
To top it, yeah her to get away from mayfly to to
top it.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
Yeah, because it's such a beloved book by certain
people.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
Well, a lot of I mean I think pretty much everybody
that read it liked it.
I don't think it got that manyyeah, uh I don't know about like
reviews reviews, but likepeople who review it.
I don't think she got many likenegative ones.
That reminds me you should goon instagram because I sent you
things okay, and one of them isa bunch of valentine cards from
(54:23):
that are mayfly inspired that.
I don't know if cj lead madethem or somebody else did, but
it's I think it's from's fromher account.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
Okay, nice, I will check that out.
Speaker 1 (54:33):
Some of some of them aren't great, but there are a
few that are like remind you ofthe book You're like wonderful.
Okay.
I'll check it out I was like ohyeah, I forgot that.
What happened?
Yeah, yeah, uh, yeah, I guessmaybe that's it.
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, okay, nothing excitingtoo much this time.
(54:57):
I think it's gonna be a shortone, which is okay, and oh, uh,
one more time.
What's the book next episode?
Speaker 2 (55:05):
it is called the dinosaur thief.
I want to say I'm like goingoff my memory, which is never
reliable the Dinosaur Artist.
See, I didn't even get thetitle right.
It's called the Dinosaur Artistby Paige Williams.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
The Dinosaur Artist by Paige Williams.
Okay, and that is going to beour next episode, which I
believe is episode 34.
Or was that supposed to be thisepisode?
I don't know.
We'll figure it out.
It's next episode.
We didn't read it, so it'sdefinitely not going to be this
(55:43):
episode.
Okay, so Dinosaur Hunter,artist Artist Dinosaur Artist by
Paige Williams, and informationon that is going to be in the
show box.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
It will be the correct information.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
It will be the correct information and you can
check out our socials as well.
We have personal Instagrams andpodcast Instagrams and a
Facebook and an email, whichRachel should be checking
periodically.
Speaker 2 (56:23):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (56:23):
Questions would be nice, or just comments.
Nice comments, I mean, youcould give us critiques, but be
nice about it.
Yes, gentle critiques.
Speaker 2 (56:31):
What Gentle critiques .
Give us critiques, but be niceabout it.
Speaker 1 (56:33):
Yes, gentle critiques .
Speaker 2 (56:33):
What.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
Gentle critiques.
Gentle critiques yes, yeah, Ithink that's it so like
subscribe, download, review andwe will see you next time.
Bye.
I'm Kiki.
And I'm Rachel and this isDetails are Sketchy A true crime
podcast, and I'm not even goingto pretend I know what episode
this is anymore, but I do knowthe next one is our book one.
Okay, I believe it's our bookone.
Yeah, so I think this is 33.
That's what I want to say.
Or episode I don't know, threeor four in the second season,
(00:24):
and let me, I think I might juststop saying episode numbers,
right.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Okay, let me.
Our book is going to be theDinosaur Artist by Paige
Williams.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Okay, I ordered it.
It's not coming until next week, if you want to listen along.
Follow along, follow along.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Follow along, yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Hear our thoughts.
Read the book.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah, they'll listen along to our commentary on it.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
There you go this week.
You're doing the Missing Person, yes, and I am doing the Case.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yep, okay, so I should take it away.
It so I should take it away.
Yes, it's my turn to take itaway.
I chose, with like five minutespreparation a case.
It's a cold case from the FBImost wanted list A missing child
(01:24):
.
She list a missing child.
She's not a child anymore.
She went missing on April 6,1986.
Her name Anthonette ChristineCayedito, and she went missing
from Gallup, new Mexico.
And, yeah, her information.
(01:47):
Her date of birth December 25th1976.
Her hair is brown.
Her height at the time of herdisappearance was 4'7".
Her sex female.
Nationality American.
I don't know why that'snecessary to put that.
Place of birth, new Mexico.
Eyes brown.
(02:08):
Weight, 55 pounds at the timeof her disappearance.
Her race biracial, nativeAmerican.
And white Scars and marks KayaDitto has freckles, pierced ears
, a scar on her knee and a scaron her lip.
Ears, a scar on her knee and ascar on her lip.
She has moles on her back,right cheek, nose, left and
(02:34):
right hands and her right ankle.
Remarks Cayadetto is of Navajoand Italian descent.
At the time of herdisappearance she wore glasses.
She was known to wear a silverchain with a small turquoise
cross pendant.
Antoinette Cayadetto was lastseen at her family's residence
in Gallup, new Mexico on April 6, 1986.
She was last seen wearing apink nightgown.
If you have any informationconcerning this person, please
(02:56):
contact your local FBI office ornearest American embassy or
consulate Field office isAlbuquerque.
Okay, so I'll have a little bitmore information about her
later.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Okay, sounds good.
Yeah, she'd be what 50?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, or almost 50, 49.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yep, Okay.
So yeah, she'd be a grown-asswoman now.
Yeah, she would, but it's crazyto see she's.
We're done Not crazy I'm tryingnot to use that word, but it's
intense, that's a better word Tosee this missing poster of her
(03:36):
and she's just a sweet littlekid.
Oh, it's hard to imagine.
I mean, hopefully she is outthere as an adult woman
somewhere.
But you know, like when youlook at your own kids or I look
at my kids, it's hard to imaginewhat they'll be like as adults.
(04:00):
Yeah, yeah, I imagine, eventhough this woman is older than
me.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Still, I mean, when you're looking at a picture and
she's quite young, okay, so I amdoing Shante and Kenny Kimes.
Now some people pronounce itShante, other people pronounce
it Sante.
It's S-A-N-T-E, okay, but Idon't know.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Do you know how she pronounced it?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
No, so I mainly got my information from Diabolical
Women, episode 1, shantae Kimes,but there are lots of different
episodes from various series,like I think even Dateline did
one.
I know they did an interview on60 Minutes.
I intended to watch all of thembut life got in the way.
(04:52):
Right, yeah, it's a lot ofwatching.
It is a lot of watching.
I had intended to do it all onFriday but my hair appointment
took like three hours out of myday, right.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I was like never, never mind.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Are you happy with your hair?
I am.
It's quite light.
Yeah, it's cute.
That's a lot lighter than itwas, so we're thinking about it.
My, uh, my hairstylist movedsalons right and so they have
different, um kinds of likebrands and things, brands and
(05:27):
things, yeah.
So she's not entirely sure whatwe had used last time, based on
the new brand.
So, yeah, it's a bit lighter,but that's okay, makes sense.
Yeah, it's all right.
I don't know, I go much lighter.
I might be gray or white you cango like silvery white yeah, I
(05:48):
don't think I want to do that,though I want to.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I want to coast into my gray hair our mutual friend
always has been a big fan ofsilvery white hair and she's
always said that, that she can'twait to have silvery white hair
.
So that's what made me think ofthat.
This is her fondness forsilvery white hair.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, you may not get it, though you might just get
the angry gray.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, but you can always dye it silvery white.
That's true.
I think mine will probably goangry gray or whatever the hell.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
I call it angry.
Gray Reminds me of barbed wire,I guess yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Well, thanks for that flattering image.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Well, I'm going to have it too.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
No, I'll look at my hair in the future and be like
just like barbed wire.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
You may be lucky and it'll go white.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I've had a few strands and those strands appear
whitish, but that isn'tnecessarily reflective of the
whole thing.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
No, because you can be gray-white.
Yeah, yeah, okay anyway.
So we're talking about thecrimes of Shanti and Kenny Kimes
.
So on July 4th 1998, detectiveTom Hovigim received a missing
persons report.
82-year-old socialite andmultimillionaire, irene
(07:19):
Silverman, had vanished from herUpper East Side mansion.
Now, irene was not someone whowould wander away.
She was always at home and noone had heard from her Upper
East Side mansion.
Now, irene was not someone whowould wander away.
She was always at home and noone had heard from her.
The police canvassed theneighborhood, they started
looking for video andinterviewing the people that
knew her, and they also gave herpicture and information to the
news, hoping for publicassistance.
(07:39):
And within hours they get thenames of a couple of suspects.
They are identified as a widowand son of a wealthy developer
from California, 63-year-oldShante Kimes and 23-year-old
Kenny Kimes.
Now Shante is often describedas a glamorous grifter who's
(07:59):
been evading law enforcement orhad been evading law enforcement
for over 30 years.
Her rap sheet had everythingfrom petty theft to murder.
Her eldest son, kent, who'sinterviewed for this episode,
claims that she would shopliftfood to feed him and force him
to be her accomplice.
(08:20):
And it wasn't because theycouldn't afford food.
In fact, I think the husbandshe was with at the time was
quite wealthy.
She just liked stealing andbreaking the law.
Their relationship becamestrained.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
It's an interesting choice to steal food.
Usually, when you hear aboutpeople who are like shoplifting
addicts or whatever it's liketrinkets or things like that,
I'm sure she stole other things.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, he was.
I think he was just giving anexample of like she had to steal
food and most people would belike, well, you may have, you
may you know poverty or but it'snot true.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
They were millionaires, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Well, that's just gross.
It is gross, and she made himcommit those crimes with her.
Yeah, so Sante's childhood isimpossible to verify, according
to her own son.
He claims that some sources sayher mother was a sex worker,
while others say she was in hisword was reputable and she just
(09:27):
simply couldn't control her.
Either way, I guess she was putup for adoption at age 12.
She met her first husband inhigh school, or I think she was
adopted at age 12.
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
When she was put up for adoption, so she was rich,
but she had a background ofimpoverishment, though we don't
know If you said her mom waslike a sex worker and stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
But that's a.
They don't know that.
So some sources say yes andsome sources say she wasn't.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Oh okay, because I'm just throwing it out there that
sometimes you could have like apoverty trauma and that could
maybe cause that sort of thing.
Man, if she's just a psychopath, you'll see when we get going.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Sure, I'm not justifying her violent no, I
know, I'm just saying I mean she, she stole other things.
It wasn't.
Yeah, she'd steal anything shecould get her hands on.
So she met her first husband inhigh school and they married
five years later, aftergraduation.
They had a nice life, butShante would rack up bills, in
(10:37):
part because of her shoplifting.
She would also burn down housesto collect insurance.
She had multiple affairs,including one with her husband's
business partner.
They divorced in 1967, and shebegan immediately looking for a
new millionaire.
She set her eyes on KennethKimes, who she saw in a magazine
(11:00):
and she was like him.
I'm going to get him.
He was worth about $22 million,which was quite a lot in 1970.
They had one son, kenny Kimes,in 75.
Kent, who was 13 years olderthan Kenny, worried about him
because his mother was socontrolling and manipulative
(11:26):
controlling and manipulative heeven tried to quote pull him out
of her grasp.
I don't know what that means.
I don't know if, like once hegot old enough, he tried to get
custody or if he just tried towarn him about the truth of
their mother.
I don't know what that?
means, but either way.
But kenny remained loyal toshantae and the brothers became
estranged and, according to Kent, even enemies.
(11:46):
Shante, her husband, and Kennymoved to Mexico in 1982.
Shante didn't want Kenny to goto school because she wanted
complete control, so she hired atutor for him tutor for him.
(12:07):
The tutor, named Teresa, wasinterviewed on this episode and
she claimed that Shantae moldedKenny to be just like her, for
example to talk just like her.
One time she also got mad atTeresa for trying to teach Kenny
not to lie.
She allegedly said there is atime to lie and a time not to
lie and she would be the one toteach him.
That said there is a time tolie and a time not to lie and
she would be the one to teachhim that.
She also bullied a pregnanthousekeeper who's from El
(12:28):
Salvador.
I think her name was Gloria.
Well, they lived in Mexico.
The housekeeper was never paidand was forced to work,
basically from the time she wokeup until the time she went to
bed at night.
So the housekeeper was a slave.
Yes, we're getting there.
One night, sante took Gloria,the housekeeper, and Teresa to
dinner at a local restaurant.
(12:49):
According to Teresa, theyordered and then Shante told
Gloria, let's go.
Shante and Gloria left therestaurant and Shante returned
15 minutes later without Gloria.
Teresa said that when they gotback to the house all of
Gloria's things were still inthe home, but she was not there
(13:11):
and she has never been found.
Later, shante stole Teresa'spurse, which had basically her
whole life in it.
I mean, it was her passport,her money, all of that stuff.
So Teresa was then at Shante'smercy, like she couldn't just go
and get a new ID.
She couldn't, just she couldn'tprove who she was.
(13:31):
So Shante told Teresa that shehad to smuggle women into the
country for her so that shecould have maids without having
to pay them.
Shante had two girls I'm notsure if they were girls or if
they were just young women fromGuatemala for Teresa to smuggle
across.
Now Teresa said she didn't wantto do it, but she felt that she
(13:54):
didn't really have a choice andshe had to get to the US side
and then she could talk tosomebody and get it figured out.
But she just needed to get backhome.
Shante dropped the girls andTeresa off near the border and
left, and the girls walked alongthe beach until they came to an
inlet that they then had tocross to get to the United
States.
(14:14):
A lifeguard sees them and takesthem to safety because I guess
the tide was really bad and theycould have been swept out, and
so he takes them to the US sideand, for whatever reason, they
are not reported to bordercontrol.
All three were picked up by theKimeses and taken to Las Vegas
where they were essentially heldlike prisoners.
After two months Kenneth Kimestook pity on Teresa and bought
(14:40):
her a ticket to visit her family.
When she finally got to herfamily she went to the FBI and
she told them about Shante,about keeping the girls and all
of that stuff, and she said shedidn't really have any proof.
But in August of 1985, shanteand her husband are arrested and
charged with involuntaryservitude for keeping maids as
(15:01):
slaves in their home.
Kenneth took a plea deal so hedidn't have to do time, but
Shante decided to stay on trial.
Her trial was held in 1986, andshe was ultimately convicted
and sentenced to five years.
She only served three.
By all accounts.
Shante became even moredangerous once she was released.
(15:23):
In 1994, kenneth Kynes diedsuddenly from aortic aneurysm.
He left Shante some money, butit wasn't enough for her and she
believed that he had diedleaving millions in offshore
accounts, and she was worriedthat there were other heirs from
(15:44):
his previous marriage.
So she wanted to get the moneybefore any possible heirs could.
So she concocted a scheme to dothat.
So she and Kenny who is at thispoint 21, tried to use forged
documents to access thoseaccounts.
But a man named Saeed BalilAhmed accounts.
(16:12):
But a man named Saeed BalilAhmed, a Bahamian banker, asked
too many questions, and soShantae invited him over for
dinner.
She gave him a spiked cocktail.
Once he passed out, she andKenny took him to the bathtub,
where Kenny attempted to drownhim, but he started to wake up.
Where Kenny attempted to drownhim, but he started to wake up.
So Kenny called Shantae in tohelp him hold him down while he
drowned him.
The body was subsequentlydisposed of in the ocean the
(16:36):
next day and has never beenfound.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
So she probably disposed of the maze slave in
the ocean too.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
It's possible, yeah, although I don't know how she
could have gotten to the oceanin just 15 minutes.
But I don't know how she couldhave gotten to the ocean in just
15 minutes, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Maybe she stowed the body somewhere and then to the
leader.
Yeah, possible, because 15minutes is not a big window for
anything.
No, unless she stowed her likea dumpster or whatever, because
there's this episode of the Kingof the Hill where there's like
a murder or whatever in the, orit seems like a murder, I think
(17:12):
it ends up being an accidentaldeath, but the body is found in
like a dumpster behind arestaurant.
So that made me think of thatas well.
Like that would be somewherequick to stow a body.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yep, okay.
So Shante and Kenny never foundthe money and they wind up
fleeing to Los Angeles andsearch for money somehow.
So their new target is theirlongtime acquaintance, david
Kasdan, who was an LAbusinessman and he had done some
real estate transaction withthe Kimeses before.
(17:48):
So in January 1998, shantebegan to forge David's name on
documents.
She took out a $200,000mortgage on the Las Vegas house
in David's name.
So somehow she managed to keepthe judgments during her trial
in the 80s by signing it over toDavid.
So I guess that means she'sable to keep the property during
(18:08):
her trial in the 80s by signingit over to david.
So I guess that means she'sable to keep the property by
putting it in david's.
Yeah, so david found out aboutthe mortgage when he received a
phone call from a collectionsagency about not paying the
mortgage payment.
So when shanti and kennyrealized that david was not only
on to them but also wasn'tgoing to help them, they knew
(18:30):
they would have to kill him.
And in February 1998, shanteordered Kenny to kill him.
So Kenny, with an accomplice,drove to David's house.
The accomplice stayed outsideand he heard a pop what he
described as a gunshot, and heheard a pop what he described as
a gunshot.
Kenny then waved him in and hewent inside the house and he saw
(18:53):
that David had been shot andwas lying on the kitchen floor.
They took David and headed downto the airport area.
They put him in the trunk andthen headed down to the airport
area where they parked the car,changed clothes and saw a movie
and then discarded the body andafter he was done, kenny bought
(19:15):
shantae some flowers tocelebrate.
Wow.
So there's always been questionsabout their like the true
nature of their relationship,like was it just mother and son
or was there like an incestuous?
Yeah, whatever?
Yeah, because they definitelydid things that made it seem
more like a romanticrelationship than father and son
(19:37):
.
The next day, the lapd got acall about a body in a dumpster,
just like you thought by lax.
They find out that it's david,through fingerprints.
His daughter, when they tellher about it, tells them that he
(19:58):
was very fearful of shantae andkenny kimes and that they had
been harassing him aboutsomething he was seemingly
involved in.
So within days, the trail ledpolice to a room in a Bel Air
mansion where Shante and Kennyhad been hiding out.
They had obviously taken off ina hurry, leaving a bunch of
(20:18):
possessions behind.
The one clue that thedetectives have to track the
Kimeses is the luxury car theyhad been driving.
I think it was a lincoln towncar.
Yeah, they show pictures of itand they kept calling it a
luxury car and I guess it was aluxury car, but it does.
By today's standards it doesnot look like a luxury car, it
(20:41):
looks like a dad car yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
okay, so the no.
But there's definitely a timewhen those kind of cars were
less ostentatious but like Idon't know if they were supposed
to be really smooth riding andthe interiors were blah, blah,
blah.
Yeah, those were some kind ofclass of luxury car.
Reminds me of Hannibal,although these people are
(21:05):
definitely not Hannibal.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
I mean nobody's Hannibal, because Hannibal is a
fictional character and not areal serial killer.
No that like he has to maintainhis like bougie lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
And drive a fancy car and like order fancy wines and
shit like that, and so that'show the FBI is able to track him
down after he escapes.
If you feel spoiled fromHannibal, it's been out for a
really long time, so yeah, okay,so they have the luxury car.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
So the police found that the car had been
fraudulently purchased in cedarcity, utah, and that allowed the
lapd to contact the police inutah and get a local warrant
that would allow them to takethem into custody for their,
their, for that multi-statewarrant.
I'm sorry if you can hear mylike cough drop in my mouth.
(22:11):
It's that or coughing so, butthe kimes were already heading
east across the country and injune 1998 they arrived in new
york city to pull off theirbiggest scam yet.
So they had researched wealthywidows with no relatives and in
(22:36):
their research they found82-year-old Irene Silverman from
the beginning, oh no who owneda Manhattan mansion, not poor
82-year-old Irenene silverman.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
She sounds like a sweetheart, I know, I don't know
, like ladies named irene.
For some reason they sound likelike a kind of sweet old lady
that will feed you like hardcandy from like a crystal bowl
yeah, she seemed like.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
She sounded like a cool lady.
So she owned a Manhattanmansion and that mansion was
divided up into 10 individualapartments and suites and Irene
would rent them out, sosometimes there would be up to
(23:25):
10 tenants in her house.
So Kenny rented an apartment Iguess it's more like just like a
one room, I think that's whatit sounded like.
So he rented an apartment inthe mansion using a fake
reference and the alias MannyGurin.
Shanti moved in with him oneweek later and they were sharing
(23:47):
a bed urine.
Shanti moved in with him oneweek later and they were sharing
a bed.
So that is another reason peoplequestion their uh relationship.
The plan was to swindle ireneout of the mansion, so she
forged papers to transfer thetitle into her name.
Uh shante did that.
The Kimeses also called anotary over to have the deed
(24:10):
signed over.
The second part of the plan wasto kill Irene, evict the other
tenants as well as the staff.
I believe there was a staff ofsix.
So Shante hired a man thatworked for them before but
unbeknownst to them.
He had turned informant for theLAPD.
Once the police knew where theywere going to be at a specific
(24:31):
time and a specific place, theywere able to contact the NYPD
and the New York FBI and requestthey assist in arresting Shanta
and Kenny.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah, we gotta protect the sweet Irene at all
costs.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
So the LAPD and the FBI set up a sting with the
informant over the stolen carwarrant.
Then, on July 4th, the day ofIrene's annual Independence Day
party, irene spoke to herbuilding manager and friend,
jeff Feig, about the young maletenant, manny Gurin, and his
(25:07):
older female companion is whatthey called her.
According to Jeff, they talkedabout how Manny and the older
woman were not wanted there andthey were very concerned about
them.
They didn't say concerned aboutwhat specifically, just that
they were concerned and theydecided that they were going to
serve them with an evictionnotice the Monday after July 4th
(25:27):
, so on the 6th, I think wouldbe the day.
On July 5th, between 1 and 3 pm, manny carries out the plan.
He murdered Irene by stranglingher, oh no.
He then rolled her up in ashower curtain, put her in a
duffel bag, put her in the trunkof his car and then drove her
(25:49):
out to New Jersey and dumped her.
A few hours later thehousekeeper noticed that Irene
was missing and so she calledJeff.
The police learn about Mannyand how the staff and her
friends don't trust them, sothey go to his apartment to talk
to him.
But he's not there and neitheris the woman who stays with him.
(26:09):
So, shanti.
All the police find are ashower curtain with a missing
liner, and the curtain and therings were still in the
packaging they found gray ducttape and a plastic I'm sorry and
plastic garbage bags.
So, needless to say, the NYPDbegan their search for Manny.
(26:31):
So while the NYPD were lookingfor Manny, the LAPD and FBI were
setting their sting for Kennyand Shante.
Obviously, they don't know atthis point that they're actually
looking for the same people,that they're actually looking
for the same people.
Yeah, at 5 pm Shante shows up,or showed up to meet the
informant, and she was takeninto custody.
(26:53):
And then the NYPD observedKenny conducting
counter-surveillance and theytake him into custody as well.
They are told that they arebeing taken into custody on the
Utah warrant for grand larceny.
Within 24 hours the Kimeseswere officially prime suspects
in Irene's disappearance.
(27:15):
Now for the Irene Silverman case.
Shante and Kenny are chargedwith multiple counts, including
second-degree murder, becauseher body has never been found.
Yeah, the trial began in whathorrible people did they think
that they were going to get hermoney?
They thought they were going toget her mansion.
So the trial began in february2000 and it lasted for three
(27:38):
months, both shantae and kennyreceived life sentences with no
chance of parole.
Then in 2002, they are indictedin LA for the murder of David
Kasdan.
They have more evidence in thatcase than the Irene Silverman
case.
So, for example, mostimportantly they have the body.
So to avoid execution, theKimes' first need to admit guilt
(28:04):
, so Kent again first need toadmit guilt.
So Kent again that's Kenny'solder brother and Chante's
oldest son paid Kenny a visit inthe prison to try to convince
him to confess and ultimatelyKenny agreed to do so.
In June 2004, kenny pled guiltyto all the murders in a deal to
(28:24):
save himself and his motherfrom the death penalty.
Today, kenny is serving hislife sentence without parole in
California.
Shantae died of natural causesin a New York prison in 2014.
I believe she was 79.
So that's my very, very shortcase.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
She wasn't very imaginative at naming, was she
Kent?
Speaker 1 (28:51):
and Kenneth, kent and Kenny.
No Well, kenny was named afterKenneth, the husband.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Oh, okay, if she had a third one, then he would be
named like Kenward or somethingPossibly.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
She certainly was a diabolic woman.
Yeah, I mean, according to herson, she could convince anybody
to do anything.
Yeah, you know, she kind oflooked a little bit like
Elizabeth Taylor, did she?
Yeah, at least when she wasyoung.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yeah, because I wasn't really thinking about
what she looked like, but I waslike what a bitch, yeah, she is.
Well, I just mean.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
I think the implication is that she used her
beauty in her.
Her oldest son said she musthave been really good at sex
because that's the only way hecould think of.
She got so many men to do whatshe said, yeah, yeah, which
might be true.
She may not have actually sleptwith them, but she could have,
(29:54):
you know, implied, implied it.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Flirted yeah, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yes, Is this them?
No, that's the TV movie version.
Oh no, that guy is from TwinPeaks here I'll show you a
picture.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
I don't know what actors look like.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
So that's kind of more along the lines of how she
looked in her Elizabeth Taylorera.
Okay, I don't see any of her asa very young woman, but they
did show it on the show and shewas quite pretty.
Yeah, most of these are fromthe the movies.
(30:37):
So I mean, yeah, there's notreally much to say.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
They're terrible people indeed, although, yeah, I
mean obviously like he's agrown man, but there's something
to be said for grooming andmanipulation from oh yeah when
you're a kid.
So oh yeah, that's very fuckedup it is very fucked up.
He was definitely groomed luckyfor the older son to have
(31:06):
escaped that yeah, he had atemperament for, you know, not
falling in line.
Yeah, same yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Okay, Are we ready to hear more about Antoinette
Christine Cayadetto?
Sure, Okay, it says her motherwoke up to find she was not in
the house.
We went looking for her aroundthe house nothing, Sure, the
surrounding foothills Penny'sthe mother but found no trace of
the little girl.
Authorities were almost certainshe had been kidnapped.
(31:55):
The days stretched into weeksand then months.
Police could offer little tobolster Penny's hopes of ever
finding her daughter alive.
After a year had passed, allseemed lost.
A dramatic call for help cameinto the Gallup police station.
Oh shit, the voice claimed tobe Anthonyoinette Cayodetto and
(32:16):
the dispatcher asked where shewas.
But before the girl couldanswer, the call was ended by an
unidentified man.
Detectives played a recordingof the call for Penny Cayodetto.
I listened to the tape over andover and just by the way she
says her last name and the wayshe screams and chills all over
(32:36):
my body, a mother knows, and Iknew that it was her.
The phone call renewed hope forAntoinette's safe return.
However, four torturous yearspassed without any further clues
.
The FBI released twocomputer-enhanced photographs
showing what Anthonette mightlook like at the age of 14.
Four months later, according toagent Kevin Miles, the FBI, a
(33:00):
possible city of Anthonette wasreported in Carson City, Nevada.
A waitress in a restaurant inCarson City told the Carson City
police about a strange incidentshe had witnessed that
particular day.
She waited on a table at whichsat a male and a female, rather
unkempt, and a small girl aboutthe age of 14 or 15.
(33:21):
The girl would deliberatelydrop a utensil on the floor.
The waitress put the utensilback on the table and the little
girl grabbed her hand, and thewaitress thought nothing of it
and went about her business.
The threesome left therestaurant and the waitress went
back to the table and began tobust the table.
She lifted the plate belongingto the girl.
Beneath was a napkin that saidplease help me call the police.
(33:43):
By the time she realized whathad happened, the couple and the
girl were gone.
Shortly after the Carson Citysighting, Penny turned to her
own Native American heritage inthe search for Anthonette.
She and her other daughtervisited a respected Nadeau
Navajo medicine woman skilled inperforming traditional tribal
(34:03):
ceremonies.
The medicine woman performedthe crystal ritual, which is
said to make contact with thespirit of a missing person.
According to the medicine woman, Anthonette was still alive and
may have a child.
She was being held against herwill by threats of violence
somewhere in the southwest Penny, was amazed that the
(34:25):
information provided by themedicine woman was consistent
with the elements of thedetective's investigation.
Going to the medicine womangave me a lot of strength and it
helps me to just know that sheis alive.
No matter who she's with,they've got to have some
compassion, not to hurt another.
(34:45):
Being as small as she is,Athena Cayadento was nine years
old when she disappeared.
Today she would be in her 30s,Well, in her late 40s now.
Yeah, she has brown hair andbrown eyes.
Her birthday is December 25th.
Well, that was more harrowingthan I expected it to be.
Jesus.
Yeah, sounds like there's avery real possibility that she
(35:07):
is alive.
Yeah, could be, so that's awfulit is.
Is alive?
Yeah, could be, so that's awfulit is.
So if you're out there, anthony, I hope that you are safe and
can, yeah, are safe wherever youare, yeah, and have autonomy.
Yeah, okay, and yeah, that's mycase.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yeah, okay, and yeah, that's my case.
Alright, so I guess now it'stime for what you've been
reading, watching.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Yes, so what did we talk about last time?
I always forget, like, wheredid we leave off last time?
Let me check all my Goodreads.
Did I talk about Tess of theRoad last time?
Let me check all my good reads.
Did I talk about test of theroad last time?
Test of the?
What?
Test of the road?
That fantasy book I read, Idon't know.
So I read a fantasy book calledtest of the road.
(36:05):
So that was pretty.
Test of the road, test of theRoad, tess of the Road yeah, it
was pretty good.
It was darker than I expectedand it was not a romantic scene.
So, yeah, it was pretty good.
It was a bit of a growing upjourney kind of thing.
Yeah, this person coming of agethat's what I'm thinking of.
(36:32):
Coming of age story yeah, thisperson is finding themselves,
finding their footing and alsofinding forgiveness for
themselves for taking on theblame right of that in their
(36:53):
society and in many societiesthat women take on for just
existing and being part of theworld.
So, yeah, it was good.
It does have themes ofdepression, suicidal ideation,
(37:15):
sexual assault and emotionalabuse and things like that.
So that's something to, yeah,that's something to.
And generational trauma yeah,trauma, yeah.
(37:37):
So but yeah, I thought it waspretty good.
And uh, I read those across theriver by christopher bullman
about a couple who move intolike a southern community
because he's he wants to write abook about his great-granddaddy
plantation owner blah blah, eyeroll or whatever, but also
(38:02):
because him and his lady areescaping their reputations
because he's stole or not stolebut him and his current partner
(38:22):
are the product of infidelitybecause she was married to
another faculty member at theuniversity that he had been a
professor at, and they gottogether, and so it ruined his
reputation, it ruined his careerand
so they're escaping from thatand he's also escaping from PTSD
(38:45):
and they're moved to this placeand things are not quite right,
right?
So I don't want to give toomany spoilers.
I liked the beginning, I likedthe end.
I didn't like.
I felt like there were momentswhere, like, of course, they're
showing like this, like deepsouthern community with ties to
(39:10):
whatever slave ownership andstuff in the past and, of course
, deep racial tensions andthings like that.
But I thought at times, likeyou know how sometimes things
are unnecessarily, you know, andI felt like there were times
when they appropriately showedthat racial disparity and times
(39:36):
when the author was just likeit's fun to say the N-word, and
I was like you already got yourpoint across and you didn't need
to do it like 10 more times,right and so that, and you
didn't need to do it like 10more times, right and so that
(39:57):
part I didn't love and I I don'tknow.
There's some other things Iwould like to say about it, but
I can't really do so withoutgiving away spoilers for the
book.
So, but, um, for the genre thatit was in, I don't know, it
didn't excite me about thatgenre as much as I had hoped,
(40:18):
but there were definitelymoments that there were
definitely some good moments.
Is it like horror?
Yeah, it's horror, it's horror.
It's like a suspenseful horror,I would say, and like kind of
like a creeping dread thiscommunity is not quite right
kind of horror.
Okay, okay and yeah, but yeah,it's all right.
(40:43):
So yeah, maybe check it out ifyou like that sort of thing.
I definitely liked his vampirebook a lot better though.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Mm-hmm.
So, which one?
Speaker 2 (40:56):
was the vampire book.
Let me check out the name of it.
Just a second the Lesser Dead.
Yeah, that one was pretty fun.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Yeah, cool, I'm still reading the nonfiction from the
last time we talked theeverything must go.
Yeah, um, it's really good.
It's just I got sidetracked bya new book called um uh, dungeon
(41:27):
crawler carl it's, it'sactually really good.
I saw I I watch BookTubesometimes and one of my favorite
BookTubers, gavin, reads it all.
He was listening to it onAudible and he liked it so much
went and bought the hard copy.
So I guess my understanding,because I went and got it from
(41:58):
the barnes and noble in el pasoand the I guess he's the manager
of the store or something heran into me and he like couldn't
stop talking about it.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Yeah, um, but I guess it was like two words at barnes
and no, no no, no, a differentperson.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Oh okay, gaven's in england or something, okay I was
confused or gavin there is inengland people, I say gavin, but
it's gavin.
Uh, the manager saw me carryingthat along with some other
books and he talked about it alot.
He liked it so much he's buyingthe whole series as it comes
out.
Yeah, I guess it wasself-published, nice, and now
(42:38):
it's gotten such traction thatthey're it's getting a I don't
want to say proper publishing,but you know, like a, yeah, some
reputable, not reputable, but abig publishing house you know,
sometimes that's the fucking wayright, yeah so, um, the book is
about, uh, this guy who's justbroken up with his girlfriend
but she's out of town and sohe's, um, cat sitting and her
(43:03):
name is she has a really longname, but it's shortened to
princess donut and she's like anaward-winning cat, yeah, yeah.
And she gets stuck outside andit's a very cold night and he
runs out to get her.
He's dressed in his boxers anda jacket and like these pink
crocs that don't fit him I thinkit was the girlfriends, or
(43:24):
whatever, yeah, and all of asudden all of the buildings
collapse and pretty much anybodyor any living creature that was
inside something with a roof,even a car, die, oh no, and a
computer voice comes on and itsays you can either stay out
here and try to survive or youcan go into the tunnels and try
(43:44):
to survive there, and it's thisbig like RPG game, basically to
the death.
Like, you have levels, you haveto go up you level, you know
your strength, or blah, blah,blah.
You eventually have to pickyour class and your whatever you
want to be.
But it's, it's a, it's a lot offun.
The cat starts to talk and theguy becomes her manservant as
(44:09):
far as she's concerned and youknow that every floor has a boss
and whatever the goal is to getall the way down to the last
level.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
So is the cat the real hero.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
I don't know yet.
I'm only 100 pages in and it'slike a 500-page book and there's
eight of them apparently.
Yeah, so the goal is to getdown to the very last floor,
which I think is the 18th, andif you can get down there then
you can be the head of yourworld nobody's ever gotten down
there.
They've never.
I think the the farthest anyonegot was like the 12th floor and
(44:42):
they were killed immediately,yeah, so, um, they're just
trying to survive.
You can, once you get to thehigher levels, they have options
of you just kind of exiting,but you basically they haven't
set it out right but it'simplied that you kind of become
like a slave to the overlords ofthis world or this game or
(45:04):
whatever, and um, theyreincarnate you every time they
take over a planet.
But it's also also.
It's not just an RPG game, it'salso on television, it's a
reality TV game, and so you also, you can't just survive, you
have to get views and likes andsubscribers, yeah, and you can't
(45:24):
stay on a level.
It collapses after a certainamount of time.
Anyway, it's a lot of fun.
It sounds like fun.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Yeah, it's fun and it's amusing, so I've been
distracted with that you shouldsend me the name, because that
sounds like something I wouldwant to read too.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Okay, and I've also been continuing with the
Thursday Murder Club.
I just started the third one onaudio.
I really enjoyed the first twoon audio but they changed
narrators for the third one at.
The fourth one is anothercompletely new, and I haven't
listened to her.
But I don't like the third one.
No offense to the lady, I'msure she's fine, but now all the
(46:00):
characters sound different.
Yeah, you know that's annoying.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
Yeah I don't like that.
But like, on the flip side, Ialso don't like it when, like,
all of the books by the sameauthor are like narrated by the
same audiobook narrator, becausethen sometimes, like with the
Mona Awad books, it makes ithard for me to separate, like
(46:25):
the characters in the differentbooks, like it makes it almost
like it's like all one story.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
Yeah, Well, these are series and it's all the same
characters.
Yeah, no, I understand that um,in that case then, yes, I do
want the same voices yeah, um,and also I mean maybe it
wouldn't be such a big deal if Iwasn't reading them so close
together, like I literallystarted.
The third one this minute.
The second one ended and so itwas kind of jarring, you know,
(46:52):
yeah.
And so now I'm like wait, whatcharacter are we talking about?
Because that's not how theysounded.
The the other one, I'm sureshe's a fight narrator, I think
it's more of a my fault forlistening too close together.
I think they came out probablyyears apart, right?
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Originally.
Yeah, maybe that's.
Maybe the other narrators werenot available.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Yeah, so I guess that's all I've been reading,
watching.
What have I done?
Nothing, really, just BookTube.
I've been catching up on allthe BookTube I missed, yeah.
And so now I've got a bunch ofbooks I want to read that I
probably will never read.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
I'm so curious about like booktube, but like I don't
even know, like know like whereto start.
Like I, I have seen some videos, recommendations that just like
pop up, but like I don't want abillion like romantic
recommendations.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Like, like, like.
What would you like?
Because I don't even get anyromance right, like booktubers I
mean, you know what I like.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
I like horror, I like fantasy, but not romanticy.
I like uh, you know, likesci-fi, I like some mystery,
like you know, some like mixedgenre kind of things.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Um, I'll, I'll send you a few that I have.
They kind of do a mix ofeverything and from there you
can kind of I don't find people.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
I was reading a thread the other day about like
whatever romantician and like Ithink I really pinpointed
whatever this.
The thing that bothered meabout like romanticism is that
it's trying so hard to like fillall the like tropes or whatever
that, like romance readersexpect rather than and the, the,
(48:51):
the fantasy is like just thesetting, yeah, um, yeah, whereas
yeah, so I don't mind likeromance, like I'm not shitting
on romance although it's justnot the fantasy you want to read
yeah, exactly, I'd rather myfantasy be fantasy, with maybe a
little side romance.
(49:14):
Yeah, so anything else.
I also read the New Girl byJesse Q Sutanto and the
Collector by Laura Kat Young.
Okay, so those were the otherbooks that I read yeah what are
their genres?
Young adult, like kind ofthriller, and dystopian future,
(49:43):
dystopian kind of world.
The collector I feel like youngadult, the new girl one, it's
okay, like the protagonistaggravated me in some of her
like decision making, so um yeah, oh, is that the one you were
(50:08):
talking about, where, like shelike takes somebody out into?
Speaker 1 (50:14):
the woods or something and murders them and
there's like drugs involved, yep.
Yeah, she seemed like a I don'tknow.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
I think that this is one that maybe, like you know
how some young adult books are,like they're fine for adults to
read.
This one is more like it'sprobably more better for more
more better.
Well, I said I certainly I soundlike a teenager, so, um, but
yeah, it's probably more suitedfor actual teenagers yeah, so
(50:46):
because of their poor decisionmaking skills there were just a
lot of parts where I was justlike don't do that, you idiot
Right, and like you know, likehave some common sense, but like
, of course, in reality, mostteens don't have a lot of common
sense probably those decisionswouldn't seem so irrational to
(51:08):
an actual teen.
Yeah, yeah, the collector islike a slow burn, dystopian
future type of novel.
Yeah, it's kind of a world sortof Brave New World-esque, sort
of 1984.
(51:29):
People can't be depressed, orthey.
They get their memories wiped,yeah, but first they, uh, they
have to give a collection oflike one memory or whatever, to
like some for some databasealthough what is actually done
(51:50):
with all the memories in thedatabase is unknown, and it's
the job of this person tocollect these memories.
So this person has to show upand basically tell these people
that their memory is about to bewiped and even though I guess
whatever they're supposed tohave received correspondence in
(52:12):
the mail.
But of course these people aredepressed or grieving.
Grief is also considered ano-no.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:20):
And so they're upset, and so he has to convince them
to give a memory to thecollection and that he records
it.
And so, of course, incollecting all of these memories
and seeing all these people inthese harrowing moments, he of
course becomes depressed himselfand so he gets in trouble
(52:46):
himself.
So, yeah, that's a bit of asynopsis of what happens in that
book, and I'm currently readingum the new CJ lead book, which
is called American.
Speaker 1 (53:02):
Rapture.
I keep calling it American.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
Scripture.
I want to call it, I keepwanting to call it American
Psycho, different book.
I know, I know it's notAmerican Psycho, but I'm like
American, I'm like what comesnext.
Speaker 1 (53:17):
Yeah, no, I keep.
I.
That's why I keep sayingAmerican Scripture.
I know it's not AmericanScripture, but for some reason
that's what I keep thinking.
It is American Rapture.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
I'm not very far into it yet, but so far it's very
captivating.
I'm not very far into it yet,but so far it's very captivating
.
Different from Mayfly, butcaptivating in its own way and
very much same voice, yeah, sothat's good, yeah, yeah, it's
going to be hard for her to getaway from Mayfly.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
To top it, yeah her to get away from mayfly to to
top it.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
Yeah, because it's such a beloved book by certain
people.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
Well, a lot of I mean I think pretty much everybody
that read it liked it.
I don't think it got that manyyeah, uh I don't know about like
reviews reviews, but likepeople who review it.
I don't think she got many likenegative ones.
That reminds me you should goon instagram because I sent you
things okay, and one of them isa bunch of valentine cards from
(54:23):
that are mayfly inspired that.
I don't know if cj lead madethem or somebody else did, but
it's I think it's from's fromher account.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
Okay, nice, I will check that out.
Speaker 1 (54:33):
Some of some of them aren't great, but there are a
few that are like remind you ofthe book You're like wonderful.
Okay.
I'll check it out I was like ohyeah, I forgot that.
What happened?
Yeah, yeah, uh, yeah, I guessmaybe that's it.
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, okay, nothing excitingtoo much this time.
(54:57):
I think it's gonna be a shortone, which is okay, and oh, uh,
one more time.
What's the book next episode?
Speaker 2 (55:05):
it is called the dinosaur thief.
I want to say I'm like goingoff my memory, which is never
reliable the Dinosaur Artist.
See, I didn't even get thetitle right.
It's called the Dinosaur Artistby Paige Williams.
Speaker 1 (55:23):
The Dinosaur Artist by Paige Williams.
Okay, and that is going to beour next episode, which I
believe is episode 34.
Or was that supposed to be thisepisode?
I don't know.
We'll figure it out.
It's next episode.
We didn't read it, so it'sdefinitely not going to be this
(55:43):
episode.
Okay, so Dinosaur Hunter,artist Artist Dinosaur Artist by
Paige Williams, and informationon that is going to be in the
show box.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
It will be the correct information.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
It will be the correct information and you can
check out our socials as well.
We have personal Instagrams andpodcast Instagrams and a
Facebook and an email, whichRachel should be checking
periodically.
Speaker 2 (56:23):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (56:23):
Questions would be nice, or just comments.
Nice comments, I mean, youcould give us critiques, but be
nice about it.
Yes, gentle critiques.
Speaker 2 (56:31):
What Gentle critiques .
Give us critiques, but be niceabout it.
Speaker 1 (56:33):
Yes, gentle critiques .
Speaker 2 (56:33):
What.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
Gentle critiques.
Gentle critiques yes, yeah, Ithink that's it so like
subscribe, download, review andwe will see you next time.
Bye.
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