August 29, 2025 • 40 mins
Childbirth talk when you’re single? Awkward. “Not for public discussion”? Maybe. “Only for women”? Definitely what most people think. But here’s the truth: understanding this journey before marriage could transform your future relationship. In this episode, we chat with certified doula Hebaa Rizeq about why pregnancy prep isn’t just a “married women’s issue.” From faith-meets-science insights to the overlooked role of men in birth, this conversation breaks taboos in the best way. If you’re single, curious, and maybe a little skeptical, this one’s for you.
If something we said made you think, laugh, or feel seen, leave us a rating and review! It helps more people find the show. And hey, if you know someone who needs to hear this episode, send it their way. Sharing is caring!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Assalamu alaikum, I'm Hiba.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
And I'm Zaid.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
You're listening to Diary of a Matchmaker.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
A podcast that will take you into our world as
matchmakers.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
We'll share our experiences and offer advice for
the single Muslim.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
So let's dive in.
Bismillah, assalamu alaikumeveryone, welcome to another
episode.
I'm Zaid and I'm Hiba.
And today we're excited to havea special guest.
Hiba Riz is a certified doula,childbirth educator and
pre-slash postnatal fitnesscoach.
(00:35):
She is a mother of threemashallah and helps women
through every stage ofmotherhood.
Hiba takes an Islamic as wellas evidence-based approach to
her work, so thank you forcoming on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
One of the things you believe strongly in, based on
our conversation with you, isthat this topic of pregnancy,
childbirth, is something thatshould be discussed prior to
marriage.
So to a single Muslim listeningright now, who's probably in
their 20s, probably not eventhinking about this, why is this
important?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
It's so important because, you know, I'm pretty
sure, in all the cultures we'realways told to not talk about
this and, unfortunately, when itdoes happen, we don't know
where to go or who to turn to.
It's very stigmatized.
And one thing I always like totell people is that if you were
to climb Mount Everest, wouldyou just go into it without
training, without the properknowledge about what to do, how
(01:32):
to do it?
How do you train for it?
What if there's complications?
And it's not like how you see inthe movies, like people are
just like yeah, I'm gonna climbMount Everest and it's gonna be
amazing, and then you know, it'svery cinematic in that sense,
and I feel like childbirth isalso portrayed in the same sense
, like it's okay, yeah, we'regoing to have a baby, yay, it's
(01:54):
going to be amazing.
And like Alhamdulillah,inshallah, it will be.
But we have to understand thatthere will like sometimes the
inevitable happens and we needto prepare ourselves for if it
does, when it does, and also inthe west, birth is very
medicalized, so we have to comeback to the sense of our creator
and what he created and how toovercome the medical
(02:15):
segmentation as well so youchose like a pretty unusual
career path for yourself a doulaout of all professions.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
What exactly does a doula do, and how is a doula
different from a midwife or anOB?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
So doulas are not trained as medical professionals
, so we don't have the licenseto do any like blood work or
exams for the mom or, you know,helping her deliver her baby.
We're not licensed for that.
So we usually work alongside aprofessional, either a midwife
or an ob gyn, or sometimesthere's traditional birth
(02:54):
midwives as well.
So we try to give mom all theinformation that she needs
pertaining to her pregnancyspecifically, just so we don't
overwhelm her with certainthings that are not for her
specifically.
So we give her the tools, wegive her all the tools that she
needs and we say, hey, ifsomething happens, go look
(03:16):
inside your toolbox that we gaveyou and try to use that for
yourself.
So we don't make any decisionson her behalf or on her baby's
behalf unless she gives uspermission to.
We don't make any decisions onher behalf or on her baby's
behalf unless she gives uspermission to.
Um, but yeah, like we have togive her all the knowledge that
she can possibly know for herpregnancy and then, when it
comes time to make decisions forherself, she has that
(03:36):
empowerment within her to feellike, okay, I can make these
decisions on my own and I can doit confidently because I have
the knowledge to do so.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So like doctors, aren't like pushing procedures
on her and employing her.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah, I was just about to get to that you act as
essentially the middle person,because the mother is probably
overwhelmed, can't reallyprocess a lot of the decisions
that need to be made.
So you just act as the middleperson, right, yeah, okay, all
right, great.
So, from your experienceworking with a muslim couple,
what are some of the commonmisconceptions, uh, people have
(04:09):
about pregnancy or birth whenthey come into it for the first
time?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
oh my gosh, there's so many subhanallah, and that's.
It's unfortunate that there isso many, because if you, um, go
to the non-muslims and majorityof them have an idea of like,
yes, I'm there for my partner100% of the way, I'm not just
there to have fun and then, whenit comes time to have her baby,
I'm not gonna, you know, beinvolved at all.
So, yeah, that's one thing Ialways see is like the man feels
(04:39):
like it's shameful to be therewith his wife when she's having
her baby.
They feel like it's just like awoman thing, like, oh, this is
just for women and, trust me,like, because I'm half
palestinian, like I'mpalestinian and my husband's
side is indian, I see, in bothcultures, honestly, and it's
just like, um, they feel likethe man shouldn't be involved at
all and that's like the biggestproblem, because a woman needs
(05:01):
her spouse there.
Um, obviously, if there arecircumstances where he can't be
there, then it's different, butI personally believe that it
brings the bond closer when thespouse is there with his wife.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Okay, what other kinds of misconceptions people
have, whether it's women or men?
Yeah, Let it all out, let itall out.
It feels like a therapy session.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Let it all out, let it all out.
It feels like a therapy session.
So with women, the biggestthing is that they think they
just have to listen to thedoctors all the time.
If a medical professional istelling them to do something,
then they have to do it.
And we feel like in the West welose that sense of t, lose that
(05:45):
sense of, we don't have thatfull trust in Allah, like yes,
something happens, I make adecision and then the rest is in
Allah's hands.
Like for us women.
We believe okay, if a doctor istelling us something.
Like we have to listen to thedoctor and it really makes us
feel out of touch with ourbodies and our autonomy and like
what we're able to do forourselves because they have this
(06:06):
authority, that uh yeah, thatgown they wear and and the
degrees they have yes, yeah,doctors will shove that down
your throat, like they will tellyou I'm a doctor, I know what
I'm doing.
I'm not gonna say all doctors,um, because sometimes midwives
are the same way.
They will take, yes, they willtake that number of, like.
(06:27):
I've been doing this for 20plus years.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
You need to listen to me and you know, again, like
I've been working as a doula forfive years, so I I see it all
the time, unfortunately, yeah,um, how can, how can a woman
like in that situation know ifshe should listen let's say she
doesn't have a doula If sheshould listen to the doctor, or
listen to her gut feeling or herheart?
Speaker 3 (06:50):
It's really hard to do that if you don't have the
knowledge.
So even if I've had studentswho've taken my childbirth
education classes and theydidn't hire me as their doula or
didn't have a doula and theywere able to make decisions on
their own, and that's becausethey had their partner with them
, they had their husband withthem to also take the classes as
well, so that he alsounderstands what's happening and
he can be there for her and belike okay, maybe we need to
(07:12):
discuss what's happening beforewe take on a decision.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Okay, that's a good idea.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yeah, wow.
So that's a good thing aboutmen and just having husbands
involved in the process.
So what role can or should ahusband play in pregnancy and
birth, and how can men mentallyprepare themselves to be that
supportive?
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Even when the man's still single, like what can he
do at this stage?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
He should understand that a woman is going through a
lot.
It's not just oh, every womanhas a baby, every woman is
pregnant.
You know this happens toeverybody.
It's not especially like if awoman has a baby.
Every woman is pregnant.
You know this happens toeverybody.
It's not especially like if awoman is complaining of like
pain or she's not comfortable,whatever it may be, and if the
man is just like well, you'renot the only woman in the world
that's ever been pregnant.
You're not the only woman inthe world that's ever had a baby
(07:57):
before.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
So you hear some of these things.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Oh yeah, so, like, everything that I'm saying is
everything that I've heardbefore, so it's not just coming
out of thin air, unfortunately,but alhamdulillah, like Allah
gave us these types of things sothat we can talk about it
openly, and so, inshallah, wecan reach the right people.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
So, given you do this work, of course, through an
Islamic lens, give me a smalltaste of what that looks like,
like you know, a Muslim doulaversus a non-muslim doula, for
example yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
So a muslim doula will be there for you to
remember allah in every stage.
You know um to remind you thatallah is with you with
everything.
Everything happens by the willof allah.
And um also just there to helpyou say your favorite da'ats or
you know whatever surah you like.
We sit there and we recitetogether.
We're always glorifying Allah,like that's our main focal point
(08:49):
.
It's like, even if things don'tgo the way that we want, we
remember that he's the best ofplanners.
We plan, we plan, but he's theultimate best of planners.
So I feel like with it, yes,you may have a non-Muslim doula
who understands these things,but it's that spiritual
connection that you have with aMuslim doula, like this doula is
actually saying these thingsbecause she truly believes it.
(09:10):
And if a non-Muslim doula wassaying these things, if she
truly believed it, then shewould have been a Muslim herself
, right?
So it's just that big.
It's a really big difference inmy, my opinion, for just to
have that spiritual connection,but in terms of like knowledge
and coaching, the coachingitself, is it similar?
(09:32):
Yeah, yeah, so we all go throughthe same process, I'm pretty
sure, with all differentorganizations.
We all kind of so.
I'm certified through AmaniBirth, and then there's also
like Doula Canada, and there'sother organizations as well.
But from what I've seen is thatthey give us the same tools
(09:53):
within the same bracket.
Almost depends on how far youwant to go with your education,
but, yeah, pretty much withinthe same category.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Yeah are there?
This is just a question thatjust occurred to me.
Are there, like you know howthere's, like um a tibb
al-nabawi, like a propheticmedicine.
Is there something similar whenit comes to pregnancy and birth
?
Speaker 3 (10:17):
yeah, so there's uh always different type of
homeopathic medications, um,especially within, like thenah
for pregnancy, labor, birth,postpartum even.
It just depends on who you talkto and who has the knowledge to
help you with it.
Then you could always findsomething inshallah.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
I also want to mention you're more
knowledgeable about this than Iam the topic of pregnancy is
mentioned in the Quran.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
We were just talking about this multiple times.
I know you mentioned the storyof Maryam multiple times.
What can we extrapolate?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
from that and implement Again with childbirth
education.
This is actually one of thetopics we talked about Maryam
and how the way she was givingbirth correlates with how lots
of organizations that arenon-Muslim say that we should be
giving birth as well.
So she was upright and she washanging off of the palm tree and
she was shaking it.
(11:17):
So there's different methodsthat we use as doulas to have
the mom standing upright asshe's giving birth, and how it's
actually more beneficial, um,to her rather than laying down
in supine position.
So, yes, even like lots of likeuh, science professionals, they
come up with like these thingslike oh, did you guys know that
it's actually beneficial for awoman to be standing up as
opposed to the supine positionwhen she's giving birth?
(11:38):
Yes, so that's one thing, andthen also, um, another thing we
talk about a lot is dates,eating dates during your labor
and how it gives you the energy,because Allah commanded Maryam,
alayhi salam, to shake the dateof the palm tree and then the
dates will fall down and she'lleat it.
So science actually came upwith another study saying how
it's beneficial for women to eatdates during their labor
(11:59):
Because it gives them the energyand the oxytocin Wow, oxytocin
and dates.
Yes, sub the energy and theoxytocin wow, oxytocin and dates
.
Yes, subhanallah, no way.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, and like it's like, of course, allah knew that
, of course, allah commanded herto eat from it, so, and I also
know that dates are good forpostpartum right yeah, yeah,
they're good.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
They're good towards the end of pregnancy, during
your labor and birth andpostpartum and early pregnancy.
Is it good as well?
Or Um, I, I personally say totry to stay away from it, just
because it does have theoxytocin in it and that's what
you need to have your baby, sotoo much of it inside of your
body and it's because it's awarming fruit and it can really
(12:37):
internally warm your body.
So they're like again, thereare certain foods and things
like the prophetic, like sunnahmedications and stuff like that
that are recommended duringdifferent stages of your
pregnancy just because of theeffects it has internally in
your body okay, so a lot ofpeople are looking for like
strong bonds in their marriageand they want to have
(12:59):
intentional or mindful marriage,and same thing with pregnancy,
I guess.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
So how do you see like strong couples couples who
are so close and connected asopposed to ones who are not that
much?
How do you see like strongcouples couples who are so close
and connected as opposed toones who are not that much?
How do you see that manifest inthe time of childbirth?
Speaker 3 (13:16):
yeah, so um subhanallah.
The men that I see, um thatactually partake in the
childbirth education classeswith their wives, that are
actually invested in it and notjust like, oh, I have to be here
because she begged me to behere with her.
But they have to understand,like it's not, it's not, the fun
part is over.
Allah is commanding you to bethe father of this child, so you
have to take on that role, andthe reason I am so heavily on
(13:39):
that is because, not onlybecause of the bond it creates,
but studies show that men canalso develop postpartum
depression, as well as anxietyor any sort of mood disorders,
because, um, they're obviouslybecoming a father.
It's a lot on them, um, and thewomen have to understand that
it's a big role.
Like, yes, you're are, you aregoing through pregnancy, labor,
(14:00):
birth, everything, but he's alsobecoming a father at the same
time.
Like this is like, no matterhow many children you have, um,
every time a baby is born, he'sbecoming a again, as well as you
becoming a mother again.
So if you, if one person, isoff, then it's going to be hard
to bond together and it's goingto create friction between you
two.
So I feel like men also need tobe in touch with their emotions
(14:23):
more, not saying to like belike a woman, like oh my God you
know, but they just be like, belike, okay, you know what I'm
feeling this certain way and Ineed to address it, and it's
okay for me to talk about it,like my wife is not going to
look down upon me of being lessthan a man for talking about
emotions.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Um, so, just being open and having communication
throughout your, whatever it is,it's going to create a strong
bond, inshallah so we're talkinga little bit about the medical
perspective, and so I want tokind of harp on that a bit.
What, what do you wish everymuslim woman knew before getting
pregnant, especially in termsof health, body literacy, even
(15:00):
fertility?
Speaker 3 (15:01):
yeah.
So, like I said in thebeginning, um, to prepare your
body for anything.
Fertility, you know, whateverit is, you need to prepare
yourself.
It's not it's like climbingmount whatever it is, you need
to prepare yourself.
It's not it's like climbingMount Everest.
Okay, like, you need to work onyour nutrition, you need to
work on your exercise.
I'm not telling you to, likeyou know, do these crazy diet
trends or try these crazysupplements that you know
(15:21):
nothing about.
Or go to the gym and start, youknow, lifting like 500 pounds
or something.
Work slowly.
It's okay to start off slowly,um, but just know that your body
is an amana, like I'm a like.
This is something I say as afitness coach all the time.
Allah gave us these bodies as atrust, um, and when we say inna
lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un,it's not just our souls going
(15:43):
back to allah, it's our entirebeing.
Like allah is going to look atour bodies that he gave us and
be like what did you do withthis?
I gave this to you as a trustand I expected you to take care
of it.
You know, and it's not just theouter look, it's our internal
organs, everything, like when wehave to think about every
little thing that we havecontrol over, and Allah is going
to ask us about that.
(16:04):
So, starting from even beforeyou get married, okay, you need
to focus on proper nutrition.
We live in a life where we'reso privileged to eat whatever we
want, but yet we still choosethings that are just like going
to destroy our bodies internally.
Not saying I'm perfect, like Ihave that problem as well,
sometimes like we indulge, whichis fine, but again like we have
(16:27):
to really focus on the types ofthings that we're eating and
consuming.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Well, that's scary.
That's just the idea that we'regoing to be asked about.
You never know, Maybe Allah isgoing to ask us about every bite
we ever took, right yeah yeah,exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
I want to talk a little bit about fears, Because
of course, fear is a big thing,both with men and women more so
women, I'm assuming and that youknow it's scary, Like you said,
you know the whole process islike over medicalized.
So what is a more holistic, orcan you talk us through a more
holistic empowered birthexperience and what that looks
(17:05):
like, and how culture I mean youtouched on this a little bit in
the beginning, but how cultureis going back- yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
So, like I said, um, it's always going back to allah,
always understanding that allahis not going to give us
something that we can't handle.
And the biggest thing is thatwe see it all over social media,
we see it in movies, wherechildbirth is just like this
unbearable thing where a womanis not relaxed until she takes
an epidural or she takesmedication Not saying that you
(17:32):
shouldn't, because medicationsare life-saving procedures which
, again, like you, have to havethe knowledge to understand when
and how to take it, but justunderstanding the main thing is
that Allah is entrusting me todeliver this child because this
is his child, like Allah gavethis to me.
You know, it's not justsomething that I created on my
(17:53):
own.
This is from Allah.
So it's always having thatfocal point of doing this for
the sake of Allah.
You're not doing this foranybody, but for Allah.
So, again, like when you haveit, I think of it as a triangle
all the time.
So it's you, your baby and thenAllah.
Allah is always at the top.
So when you have that mindsetthat Allah is not punishing me
(18:16):
to go through this pain becausesometimes lots of cultures say
that it's a punishment for womento have babies it's a
punishment from Allah.
Allah is punishing you for goingthrough this.
I mean, I've heard it, notpersonally, but through my
clients.
So it's lots of mental work aswell, because when we grow up,
thinking these things all thetime, it's just like wow, like
it's true, and then we prepareourselves for the worst.
(18:37):
So just always remembering thatyou know Allah is putting me
through this because he wants meto, he wants my sins to be
forgiven or he trusts me to havethis baby, and you know he's
pleased with me.
Like if Allah wasn't pleasedwith me, he wouldn't let me bear
a child and be in thissituation.
And I always tell moms thatAllah is choosing you to be in
(19:00):
the same situation as Maryamalayhi salam.
So when we think of that, we'rejust like, well, this is
exactly what she went throughand this is what Allah talks
about in the Quran.
He's also kind of reiteratingthat and speaking to me as well.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
SubhanAllah.
When you put Allah in thecenter of everything, it just
reframes the whole mindset.
It makes everything easier.
Zaid, you mentioned somethingabout fertility and I just
wanted to ask you.
I know you work with women whoare already pregnant, like
alhamdulillah, but do you haveany knowledge about like
(19:34):
fertility problems in the Muslimcommunity?
Is it common?
Is there any kind of percentageor studies?
Speaker 3 (19:41):
yeah, so there actually are fertility doulas as
well, so there are doulas thathelp you with fertility and they
are Muslimlim.
So, um, if you guys ever needcontacts, I can hook you up, um,
or I can just give you the linkto share with your um, your
viewers as well.
Inshallah, um.
But yeah, like there are thesethings that exist and it's just
upon us to actually look for itand think.
(20:03):
And the thing is like peoplethink, um, it's like a hoax or
it's like a waste of time andmoney.
It's because nobody reallytalks about it.
But if you do talk to peoplewho did have, like, a fertility
doula, then they can tell youall the benefits that they've
reaped from having one okay andis it?
Speaker 1 (20:18):
is it a common problem in the muslim community?
Speaker 3 (20:22):
uh, I, from what I know, um, I don't have any
percentages or anything, butthere are times where I do talk
to women.
They're just like I I can't getpregnant, or my husband is
having issues.
We don't know what to do andmore often times than not, they
take the medical route.
Um, just because it's, it'sthere, it's whatever.
Okay, fertility issues, ivflike it always goes hand in hand
(20:45):
, right, um, but again, likepeople don't know that a Muslim
fertility doula actually exists.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
And is there a way for people who are not, like,
married yet to prepare orprevent these types of problems?
Yeah, so with women.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
I mean men and women.
You can take blood tests, right, and then it can show you your
levels of hormones, what needsto be worked on if you're doing
okay and anything of that sense.
But then again it's just reallypreparing yourself physically,
mentally and emotionally.
So when I say I know we talkedabout consumption of, like what
(21:21):
you're eating, but another thingI always tell people is that
our eyes, ears and mind are alsoconsuming things.
So it's not just what we'rephysically eating.
So if we're watching somethingor reading something or just
listening to something, like,our eyes are consuming it, our
ears are consuming it, our mindis consuming it and it's going.
We need to feed those thingsbetter things as well.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
You mentioned epidural before.
For those who don't know whatis an epidural, how does it kind
of play out during the process,and are you for it or against
it?
Speaker 3 (22:08):
failing to progress is what they say.
It's called FTP failing toprogress.
But us doulas we like to callit failing to be patient,
because they're just not patientwith the whole process.
That's like a whole nothertopic.
But the thing is I'm not for oragainst any medications.
Like I believe, everything issent down, like Allah gave us
these tools for a reason and,like I said, certain medications
can be life-saving, but it's upto us to not abuse it, like,
(22:29):
for example, tylenol.
Okay, if we have like a smalllittle headache, there are
different ways to alleviate it.
But if it's something that'sextremely major and then, like,
tylenol is available, I'm notgoing to say, okay, you know
what?
No, don't take it at all.
No, it's there.
If you like to take it, then goahead, as long as we're not
abusing it.
Same thing for epidural.
Epidural is basically thisreally long needle that goes
(22:51):
into the mom's spine and itdrugs her and it numbs the lower
half so that she can't feel thecontractions or the pain as
much, and it's also often pairedwith fentanyl.
So you know, I give moms theknowledge about epidural just so
that they can make the decisionwhen the time comes.
(23:13):
There's also pitocin, which isthe synthetic form of oxytocin,
which I was talking about before, like that's what we need in
order to have our babies, likeoxytocin is the main thing that
helps us deliver our babies.
So, yeah, they give you thesynthetic form if they see that
you're quote unquote failing toprogress or like failing to be
(23:36):
patient, but then again like itcan have its benefits.
So, yeah, it's just veryimportant to understand all the
types of medications that theypossibly can give you during
your pregnancy, especially yourlabor and your birth, and as
well as postpartum, because evenafter you have your baby, they
try to push oxytocin or pitocinonto you so that you can deliver
(23:57):
your placenta faster oh okay,so it doesn't end with
childbirth?
Speaker 1 (24:03):
no unfortunately.
Unfortunately sometimes but anddo these medications?
I assume they come with risks,right?
Speaker 3 (24:14):
oh yeah, so everything, everything has.
So there's this acronym calledbrain that we like to use.
So um b, benefits are risks.
I intention a, um, ask, likeask questions, and then or
whatever I know I messed it upand then a and then n is now no
(24:35):
or never and like so you takethat acronym and you're like
okay, what are the benefits,what are the risks, what is the
intention of the informationthat I have?
What are the alternatives?
What if I ask a question?
And?
And what if I say now no ornever?
And like you have to go throughthat list.
Either you can write it down oryou can just ask it out loud
and ask yourself or your partnerand then make decisions based
(24:58):
off of that.
Okay, Wow.
What to consider online.
Yeah, it's not something thatyou just see online.
It's like, oh yeah, I'm goingto have my baby today there.
Yeah, it's not something thatyou just see online.
It's like, oh yeah, I'm goingto have my baby today.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
There's a lot that goes behind it.
Okay, how do like the family,the bigger family?
What kind of role can they play?
Should they be involved likethe mom, the sister, other
in-law, or like this is more ofa private moment thing?
Speaker 3 (25:24):
No, definitely have a village.
It takes a village.
It definitely takes a village,like if you don't have one and
if you don't really have thatconnection with your family.
You need to make your ownvillage, whether it's online or
in person at the masjid,whatever it is, you need to
carefully select those types ofpeople that are going to be for
you during that journey, becauseit has such an impact more of
(25:47):
an impact than you will everimagine Because when you're in
labor, you're starting to startto remember oh my God, this
person said this to me, Iremember they said that to me
and everything just startsflooding, flooding back to you,
and especially how certainpeople treated you.
You'll never, ever forget that,never.
Yeah, so they say you should,if you want to have a good
relationship with a mom aftershe's had a baby, treat her well
(26:10):
during her pregnancy, labor andbirth, because she'll never
forget it and it's true, you'llnever forget it, wow.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Okay, all our male listeners out there, treat her
well when you get married.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Like there's times where I remember something,
husband.
I'm like, yeah, I remember, um,I wanted something and you said
no.
I was like I still rememberthat.
Like I, like he was like Idon't remember that at all.
I'm like, yeah, I wanted friesand you told me it was too late
at night and you went back tosleep and I stayed up at night
crying and he was like I, Idon't even remember any of that
(26:45):
that's good.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
You brought that up food.
So a big thing that comes upthat I hear a lot of are random
hunger cravings.
Right, like women just cravethe most random thing.
Have you seen a lot of that?
Did you kind of go through thatlike just craving the most
random?
Speaker 1 (26:59):
stuff.
What are the craziest thingsyou've ever, ever heard of?
Speaker 3 (27:04):
I would eat a poutine with watermelon no way like
mixed together.
Yeah, that was like my biggestthing, so.
But the thing is about cravingsis that sometimes it can be a
diagnosis for deficiencies.
So sometimes women crave chalk,or they crave cardboard, or
they crave cigarettes, eventhough they've never smoked
(27:24):
before.
They've never smoked before andit can possibly be again like a
diagnosis, because your body iscraving something within that,
or the taste of something thatis similar to a mineral or a
vitamin, whatever it is, andthat can possibly be because
you're deficient in it and yourbody is like craving it.
But yeah, if women are cravinglike random things, like cookies
(27:50):
, cookies inside of a burgerI've seen that before um oh yeah
, like it's just, it's somethinglike now that I think about,
like it's so disgusting.
But during my pregnancy I'mlike, oh my god, I needed that,
like it's something that Ireally needed yeah, okay, I've
heard of peanut butter andpickles.
Yes, yeah, so like again, like,because, um, our blood volume
increases by 50 when we'repregnant, um, so we're obviously
(28:15):
like moving, our heart rate isup and we're constantly like in
this, like like, uh, we'resweating a lot, so our body
naturally feels like it needs torestore those electrolytes.
So we go for pickles or we gofor, like, sour things,
subhanallah.
So, again, like it's, it allcorrelates somehow.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Amazing, it's amazing yeah, um, so let's say
somebody's looking to getmarried.
Are there some, without likemaking the hoarding fees offered
?
What is?
Just some basic questions.
A guy can ask a match in orderto kind of cover that that topic
of childbirth and labor withoutjust making the person feel
(28:55):
uncomfortable yeah, that's agood question.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Um, so what you can do, instead of asking them
directly, um, you can ask, like,what is it like in your family
dynamic?
Like, if someone in your familyis having a baby or you find
out that they're pregnant, whatdo you guys do for that person?
Like, are you guys there forher?
Um, does anybody in your familyever talk about taking classes
together?
Has any of your anybody in yourfamily ever um thought about?
(29:18):
Um, you know just uh, thesetypes of discussions and what
they can do for us.
So, instead of like asking thembecause you like you can't ask
a woman directly like hey, howmany kids do you want to have?
Like, or like what's yourfertility?
Like, and vice versa, you can'task a man that either.
Like uh, because you don't knowthese things right.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
So you can look within the family or within
their close friends and see whatit's like that way is there a
way like to assess compatibilityin terms of like children, like
the vision for the future interms of children uh planning
for family?
Speaker 3 (29:53):
yeah.
So I mean, like you can ask, Iguess, directly like do you do
you like?
What do you think about havingkids?
And if they're like completelyopposed to the idea and they're
just like no, no, no, never,never.
And then like kind of delveinto it, like okay, like well,
why do you say that?
Like what if one day you decide, you just like change your mind
, like hey, like yeah, let'shave kids?
And then all of a sudden it'sjust really difficult to obtain,
um, and you can just ask themlike where did that idea stem
(30:16):
from?
Or why are you feeling that way?
Um, because you can't just gointo marriage and be like, okay,
yeah, this person is amazing,but our values don't align when
it comes to like family in thefuture, because that can cause
friction, right, and if it's, ifit's a red flag for you, then
listen to your gut.
But if you really do like thisperson, it's just that one thing
that's just like doesn't reallymake sense.
(30:36):
You can just ask them openly,like okay, why are you thinking
this way?
Like is it something thatyou're traumatized by?
Or you know what is what'sgoing on up here?
And it could be the same formen or women.
You know, women might feel likeI never want to have kids and
it could be, um, she's scared tohave a baby because she's here,
she's heard horror stories allher life, or um, and then the
man also needs to understand,like, okay, well, there are
(30:59):
different ways we can go aboutthis.
Like, I understand your fear,uh, and also validate their
feelings towards it as well.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Okay, Okay, I was just going to say that you said
traumatized, like sometimes likethe reason behind the specific
answer isn't like a convictionas much as it's trauma or lack
of information and sometimesconversations that could change.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Yeah, exactly yeah.
So it's just very important tohave that communication even in
the courting phase.
Even if nothing goes through,it's important to always have
that quality of communication.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
A weird question that just occurred to me.
Honestly, Like, how do Muslimmen feel about the fact that
it's I don't know like what'sthe percentage, but sometimes
it's a male OB who's doing allthe work?
Like, do muslim men get likeiffy about?
Speaker 3 (31:52):
it.
And yeah, I mean especiallywith culture because, again,
like this is a very intimatepart of their lives and having
like another male, for example,is just like well, you know?
Like what are you doing?
Um, but we have to understandthat sometimes, especially
wherever we are in the world,that's out of our control.
Um, there are there is shortagehappening right now, um, in
canada and ontario specifically,of midwives and ob-gyns, um.
(32:16):
So sometimes you get stuck withthe male and as muslims, we
have to understand that when itcomes to these types of things,
um, we can't really say no ifthat's our only option again.
So it's going through the brainacronym.
So we have to think of it likeif I don't have an alternative,
then what am I going to do?
And Allah is not going topunish us for that.
I understand like the husbandmight feel uncomfortable, but
(32:38):
then he also has to understandthat you're not doing it
intentionally.
Like it's not something likehey, yeah, I want a male OB.
Like it may occur sometimes,but it's very rare.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Okay yeah, the craziest story I've ever heard
is this couple.
They have six kids, mashallah.
And because the man was sojealous and didn't feel
comfortable about this, he endedup having his wife deliver all
six with a C-section,subhanallah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
And now she's suffering, suffering health
problems yeah, my mom also hadfive c-sections and she had a
male ob as well, not because mydad was uncomfortable with her
delivering with a male, um, it'sjust again.
He was the only one availableand uh, she had complications
and again, like she wasuninformed about uh everything.
So, yeah, she thought that washer only option.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Knowledge is power like really, especially in this
situation.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Oh yeah, 100% yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Let's say a couple find out they're pregnant, At
what point do they typicallyreach out to you?
At what point do you kind ofjump on to their journey of
childbirth and do you workdirectly with the OBGYN or like
how does that all kind of fittogether?
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Okay.
So usually when couples findout that they're expecting, it's
usually between the four likethe one month to a month and a
half range, and during that timelots can happen.
So I typically work withcouples when they start to feel
like they need to startobtaining knowledge and getting
(34:16):
that support from someone whohas, you know, knowledge behind
this.
So typically around 20 weeks iswhen we start to understand
what mom truly needs and thetype of knowledge that she needs
.
I don't work directly withOBGYNs or midwives.
I have, like my ownself-practice.
(34:39):
I'm certified through AmaniBirth, like I said, but then,
like, I just do it on my own.
Uh, self-practice, uh, I'mcertified through a mani birth,
like I said, but then, like Ijust do it on my own.
Um, my clients often do lettheir care provider know that
they do have me as a doula, um,and then I would say, 99 of the
time, their care provider isfine with it, they're okay with
it, um, and they know that I'mgoing to be there.
Uh, it comes time to have herbaby, inshallah, so yeah, but
(35:13):
then again, like, if a mom isalso struggling during the first
trimester of, like, maybe whenmorning sickness starts to kick
in and she needs some moresupport that way.
That's when they contact me aswell.
But, yeah, like throughouttheir entire pregnancy, we would
have meetings, we would haveclasses together, if that's
something that they're lookingfor.
And then, once they're likearound 38 weeks pregnant if
there are no complicationsbefore that or no signs of mom
(35:33):
going into preterm labor thenI'm on call for them from 38
weeks until they have their baby, and that can be like, okay,
I'm feeling this way or this ishappening, and we just stay in
touch the entire time untilthey're like, okay, I need, I
need you here to give me somephysical support.
So yeah, and then there's alsopostpartum as well, if they need
(35:54):
help after they have their babywith, like, breastfeeding or
bonding, any type of thing,learning how to change a diaper,
learning how to bottle feed, orif the mom had a C-section and
she needs help carrying her baby, changing diapers, baths,
whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Is this covered by insurance?
By the way, by OHIP.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Not OHIP, but there is an organization, like I said,
called Doula Canada.
They are covered, I believe, ifyou have private insurance,
because they are recognized byOntario.
But since my certification isthrough Amani Birth, it's not
recognized by insurance inCanada and I believe it is in
the US.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
So, yeah, okay um, so yeah, okay, has there, has
there been like situations umthat you were involved in or you
heard from other doulas where,like there became friction
between the midwife and thedoula or the ob and the doula?
Speaker 3 (36:51):
yes, this personally happened to me.
Uh, subhanallah, it's just,sometimes, um, a midwife or an
ob would feel like it's theirspace, and if they feel like
another person is, it's like ifyou have too many chefs in the
kitchen like right, it's justlike they feel like they can't
learn from one another, theycan't work together as a team.
So sometimes an OBGYN wouldstart to say things like, like I
(37:18):
said in the beginning, I have20 years under my belt, belt,
like you need to listen to me, Iknow better.
Um, even like midwives wouldsay the same thing, like I've
been doing this for so manyyears, I know what's happening.
Or, um, they just won't listento the mom's commands or wishes
if it's not needed, andsometimes they'll try to do
things to have the doula kickedout of the hospital.
(37:38):
Um, yeah, unfortunately, uh,it's very it's not as common,
but it does happen.
Um, unfortunately, uh, but theycan't because, again, we're
protected by our client and shewants us to ask a support person
.
Then they can't really sayanything, unless we're breaking
the rules, of course.
Then, um, like, if we're, uh,you know, trying to do things
that are medical, out of ourscope of practice, then then we
(37:59):
can get kicked out.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Wow, I know this is kind of an extreme situation,
but can clients give you powerof attorney?
Speaker 3 (38:07):
Yeah, I don't see why not.
If things are really likeagainst her will and the care
provider is doing things againstthe mom's will, then of course,
yes.
But the thing is like it getsswept under the rug because
they're just like, well, lots ofthe courts they say like this
is a medical thing and theydon't really have that knowledge
behind it.
So they're just like, well, wedon't know what's going, what's
really happening, what's goingon or anything like that.
(38:29):
So unless they have like videorecording evidence or voice
recording evidence or somethinglike that, then it can be taken
to the higher ups.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
But um, it very rarely, ever happens is there an
equivalent to a doula in ourMuslim culture?
Like previously, likehistorically?
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Oh, yes, yes, of course.
I mean doulas came from history, like it came from our ancestry
.
They always had someone thatwould take care of the moms
during her pregnancy, labor andbirth.
There would always be thatwoman there with them.
I think I forgot the Arabicterm for it it, but there is an
arabic term for it um.
I forgot, but uh, yes, therewas always somebody there, um,
(39:12):
to help them with anything, tohelp them with breastfeeding, to
help them with their pregnancy,if they're having aches and
pains, someone there to cook forthem, someone there to take
care of the baby for them,everything.
Yeah, it's very common's verycommon all over the world.
It's just, it's been, it's beenlost, unfortunately, especially
with the work culture and womenworking and, you know,
(39:33):
listening to doctors, and eversince OBGYNs came into the
picture, it's just been verypushed back back, like it's not
something that you don't see,like you see anymore, right,
right right, right and any lastadvice you would give our single
listeners um, just know thatcommunication is key.
That is going to create a strongbond from the beginning to the
(39:55):
end.
Be open, be like, communicate,and if you feel like you can't
communicate, then communicatethat with your partner.
Like, listen, and if you feellike you can't communicate, then
communicate that with yourpartner.
Like, listen, I don't feel likeI can communicate with you.
You know like I'm trying totell you these things and know
that there are resources outthere, such as therapy, couples
therapy and you.
Just, it's not something thatshould be ashamed to look into
(40:15):
or shameful to look into.
It's there for a reason.
Everything that we have in thislife is here for a reason and
it's up to us whether we take itor not.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Yeah, absolutely Beautiful.
Yeah, I'm glad we got todiscuss this topic.
Some might see it irrelevant tosingles.
Some might see it I don't knowawkward.
I'm glad we got to talk aboutthis and I hope our listeners
took a lot from this discussion.
Inshallah, we know we took alot.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
For sure yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Alhamdulillah.
I'm glad Alhamdulillah.
Thank you so much for sharingyour time and your knowledge
with us and our listeners andbeautiful listeners.
We'll see you in the next one,inshallah Alright.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
Assalamualaikum.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Assalamualaikum.
Assalamu alaikum, I'm Hiba.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
And I'm Zaid.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
You're listening to Diary of a Matchmaker.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
A podcast that will take you into our world as
matchmakers.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
We'll share our experiences and offer advice for
the single Muslim.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
So let's dive in.
Bismillah, assalamu alaikumeveryone, welcome to another
episode.
I'm Zaid and I'm Hiba.
And today we're excited to havea special guest.
Hiba Riz is a certified doula,childbirth educator and
pre-slash postnatal fitnesscoach.
(00:35):
She is a mother of threemashallah and helps women
through every stage ofmotherhood.
Hiba takes an Islamic as wellas evidence-based approach to
her work, so thank you forcoming on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
One of the things you believe strongly in, based on
our conversation with you, isthat this topic of pregnancy,
childbirth, is something thatshould be discussed prior to
marriage.
So to a single Muslim listeningright now, who's probably in
their 20s, probably not eventhinking about this, why is this
important?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
It's so important because, you know, I'm pretty
sure, in all the cultures we'realways told to not talk about
this and, unfortunately, when itdoes happen, we don't know
where to go or who to turn to.
It's very stigmatized.
And one thing I always like totell people is that if you were
to climb Mount Everest, wouldyou just go into it without
training, without the properknowledge about what to do, how
(01:32):
to do it?
How do you train for it?
What if there's complications?
And it's not like how you see inthe movies, like people are
just like yeah, I'm gonna climbMount Everest and it's gonna be
amazing, and then you know, it'svery cinematic in that sense,
and I feel like childbirth isalso portrayed in the same sense
, like it's okay, yeah, we'regoing to have a baby, yay, it's
(01:54):
going to be amazing.
And like Alhamdulillah,inshallah, it will be.
But we have to understand thatthere will like sometimes the
inevitable happens and we needto prepare ourselves for if it
does, when it does, and also inthe west, birth is very
medicalized, so we have to comeback to the sense of our creator
and what he created and how toovercome the medical
(02:15):
segmentation as well so youchose like a pretty unusual
career path for yourself a doulaout of all professions.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
What exactly does a doula do, and how is a doula
different from a midwife or anOB?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
So doulas are not trained as medical professionals
, so we don't have the licenseto do any like blood work or
exams for the mom or, you know,helping her deliver her baby.
We're not licensed for that.
So we usually work alongside aprofessional, either a midwife
or an ob gyn, or sometimesthere's traditional birth
(02:54):
midwives as well.
So we try to give mom all theinformation that she needs
pertaining to her pregnancyspecifically, just so we don't
overwhelm her with certainthings that are not for her
specifically.
So we give her the tools, wegive her all the tools that she
needs and we say, hey, ifsomething happens, go look
(03:16):
inside your toolbox that we gaveyou and try to use that for
yourself.
So we don't make any decisionson her behalf or on her baby's
behalf unless she gives uspermission to.
We don't make any decisions onher behalf or on her baby's
behalf unless she gives uspermission to.
Um, but yeah, like we have togive her all the knowledge that
she can possibly know for herpregnancy and then, when it
comes time to make decisions forherself, she has that
(03:36):
empowerment within her to feellike, okay, I can make these
decisions on my own and I can doit confidently because I have
the knowledge to do so.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So like doctors, aren't like pushing procedures
on her and employing her.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah, I was just about to get to that you act as
essentially the middle person,because the mother is probably
overwhelmed, can't reallyprocess a lot of the decisions
that need to be made.
So you just act as the middleperson, right, yeah, okay, all
right, great.
So, from your experienceworking with a muslim couple,
what are some of the commonmisconceptions, uh, people have
(04:09):
about pregnancy or birth whenthey come into it for the first
time?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
oh my gosh, there's so many subhanallah, and that's.
It's unfortunate that there isso many, because if you, um, go
to the non-muslims and majorityof them have an idea of like,
yes, I'm there for my partner100% of the way, I'm not just
there to have fun and then, whenit comes time to have her baby,
I'm not gonna, you know, beinvolved at all.
So, yeah, that's one thing Ialways see is like the man feels
(04:39):
like it's shameful to be therewith his wife when she's having
her baby.
They feel like it's just like awoman thing, like, oh, this is
just for women and, trust me,like, because I'm half
palestinian, like I'mpalestinian and my husband's
side is indian, I see, in bothcultures, honestly, and it's
just like, um, they feel likethe man shouldn't be involved at
all and that's like the biggestproblem, because a woman needs
(05:01):
her spouse there.
Um, obviously, if there arecircumstances where he can't be
there, then it's different, butI personally believe that it
brings the bond closer when thespouse is there with his wife.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Okay, what other kinds of misconceptions people
have, whether it's women or men?
Yeah, Let it all out, let itall out.
It feels like a therapy session.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Let it all out, let it all out.
It feels like a therapy session.
So with women, the biggestthing is that they think they
just have to listen to thedoctors all the time.
If a medical professional istelling them to do something,
then they have to do it.
And we feel like in the West welose that sense of t, lose that
(05:45):
sense of, we don't have thatfull trust in Allah, like yes,
something happens, I make adecision and then the rest is in
Allah's hands.
Like for us women.
We believe okay, if a doctor istelling us something.
Like we have to listen to thedoctor and it really makes us
feel out of touch with ourbodies and our autonomy and like
what we're able to do forourselves because they have this
(06:06):
authority, that uh yeah, thatgown they wear and and the
degrees they have yes, yeah,doctors will shove that down
your throat, like they will tellyou I'm a doctor, I know what
I'm doing.
I'm not gonna say all doctors,um, because sometimes midwives
are the same way.
They will take, yes, they willtake that number of, like.
(06:27):
I've been doing this for 20plus years.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
You need to listen to me and you know, again, like
I've been working as a doula forfive years, so I I see it all
the time, unfortunately, yeah,um, how can, how can a woman
like in that situation know ifshe should listen let's say she
doesn't have a doula If sheshould listen to the doctor, or
listen to her gut feeling or herheart?
Speaker 3 (06:50):
It's really hard to do that if you don't have the
knowledge.
So even if I've had studentswho've taken my childbirth
education classes and theydidn't hire me as their doula or
didn't have a doula and theywere able to make decisions on
their own, and that's becausethey had their partner with them
, they had their husband withthem to also take the classes as
well, so that he alsounderstands what's happening and
he can be there for her and belike okay, maybe we need to
(07:12):
discuss what's happening beforewe take on a decision.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Okay, that's a good idea.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yeah, wow.
So that's a good thing aboutmen and just having husbands
involved in the process.
So what role can or should ahusband play in pregnancy and
birth, and how can men mentallyprepare themselves to be that
supportive?
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Even when the man's still single, like what can he
do at this stage?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
He should understand that a woman is going through a
lot.
It's not just oh, every womanhas a baby, every woman is
pregnant.
You know this happens toeverybody.
It's not especially like if awoman has a baby.
Every woman is pregnant.
You know this happens toeverybody.
It's not especially like if awoman is complaining of like
pain or she's not comfortable,whatever it may be, and if the
man is just like well, you'renot the only woman in the world
that's ever been pregnant.
You're not the only woman inthe world that's ever had a baby
(07:57):
before.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
So you hear some of these things.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Oh yeah, so, like, everything that I'm saying is
everything that I've heardbefore, so it's not just coming
out of thin air, unfortunately,but alhamdulillah, like Allah
gave us these types of things sothat we can talk about it
openly, and so, inshallah, wecan reach the right people.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
So, given you do this work, of course, through an
Islamic lens, give me a smalltaste of what that looks like,
like you know, a Muslim doulaversus a non-muslim doula, for
example yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
So a muslim doula will be there for you to
remember allah in every stage.
You know um to remind you thatallah is with you with
everything.
Everything happens by the willof allah.
And um also just there to helpyou say your favorite da'ats or
you know whatever surah you like.
We sit there and we recitetogether.
We're always glorifying Allah,like that's our main focal point
(08:49):
.
It's like, even if things don'tgo the way that we want, we
remember that he's the best ofplanners.
We plan, we plan, but he's theultimate best of planners.
So I feel like with it, yes,you may have a non-Muslim doula
who understands these things,but it's that spiritual
connection that you have with aMuslim doula, like this doula is
actually saying these thingsbecause she truly believes it.
(09:10):
And if a non-Muslim doula wassaying these things, if she
truly believed it, then shewould have been a Muslim herself
, right?
So it's just that big.
It's a really big difference inmy, my opinion, for just to
have that spiritual connection,but in terms of like knowledge
and coaching, the coachingitself, is it similar?
(09:32):
Yeah, yeah, so we all go throughthe same process, I'm pretty
sure, with all differentorganizations.
We all kind of so.
I'm certified through AmaniBirth, and then there's also
like Doula Canada, and there'sother organizations as well.
But from what I've seen is thatthey give us the same tools
(09:53):
within the same bracket.
Almost depends on how far youwant to go with your education,
but, yeah, pretty much withinthe same category.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Yeah are there?
This is just a question thatjust occurred to me.
Are there, like you know howthere's, like um a tibb
al-nabawi, like a propheticmedicine.
Is there something similar whenit comes to pregnancy and birth
?
Speaker 3 (10:17):
yeah, so there's uh always different type of
homeopathic medications, um,especially within, like thenah
for pregnancy, labor, birth,postpartum even.
It just depends on who you talkto and who has the knowledge to
help you with it.
Then you could always findsomething inshallah.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
I also want to mention you're more
knowledgeable about this than Iam the topic of pregnancy is
mentioned in the Quran.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
We were just talking about this multiple times.
I know you mentioned the storyof Maryam multiple times.
What can we extrapolate?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
from that and implement Again with childbirth
education.
This is actually one of thetopics we talked about Maryam
and how the way she was givingbirth correlates with how lots
of organizations that arenon-Muslim say that we should be
giving birth as well.
So she was upright and she washanging off of the palm tree and
she was shaking it.
(11:17):
So there's different methodsthat we use as doulas to have
the mom standing upright asshe's giving birth, and how it's
actually more beneficial, um,to her rather than laying down
in supine position.
So, yes, even like lots of likeuh, science professionals, they
come up with like these thingslike oh, did you guys know that
it's actually beneficial for awoman to be standing up as
opposed to the supine positionwhen she's giving birth?
(11:38):
Yes, so that's one thing, andthen also, um, another thing we
talk about a lot is dates,eating dates during your labor
and how it gives you the energy,because Allah commanded Maryam,
alayhi salam, to shake the dateof the palm tree and then the
dates will fall down and she'lleat it.
So science actually came upwith another study saying how
it's beneficial for women to eatdates during their labor
(11:59):
Because it gives them the energyand the oxytocin Wow, oxytocin
and dates.
Yes, sub the energy and theoxytocin wow, oxytocin and dates
.
Yes, subhanallah, no way.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, and like it's like, of course, allah knew that
, of course, allah commanded herto eat from it, so, and I also
know that dates are good forpostpartum right yeah, yeah,
they're good.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
They're good towards the end of pregnancy, during
your labor and birth andpostpartum and early pregnancy.
Is it good as well?
Or Um, I, I personally say totry to stay away from it, just
because it does have theoxytocin in it and that's what
you need to have your baby, sotoo much of it inside of your
body and it's because it's awarming fruit and it can really
(12:37):
internally warm your body.
So they're like again, thereare certain foods and things
like the prophetic, like sunnahmedications and stuff like that
that are recommended duringdifferent stages of your
pregnancy just because of theeffects it has internally in
your body okay, so a lot ofpeople are looking for like
strong bonds in their marriageand they want to have
(12:59):
intentional or mindful marriage,and same thing with pregnancy,
I guess.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
So how do you see like strong couples couples who
are so close and connected asopposed to ones who are not that
much?
How do you see like strongcouples couples who are so close
and connected as opposed toones who are not that much?
How do you see that manifest inthe time of childbirth?
Speaker 3 (13:16):
yeah, so um subhanallah.
The men that I see, um thatactually partake in the
childbirth education classeswith their wives, that are
actually invested in it and notjust like, oh, I have to be here
because she begged me to behere with her.
But they have to understand,like it's not, it's not, the fun
part is over.
Allah is commanding you to bethe father of this child, so you
have to take on that role, andthe reason I am so heavily on
(13:39):
that is because, not onlybecause of the bond it creates,
but studies show that men canalso develop postpartum
depression, as well as anxietyor any sort of mood disorders,
because, um, they're obviouslybecoming a father.
It's a lot on them, um, and thewomen have to understand that
it's a big role.
Like, yes, you're are, you aregoing through pregnancy, labor,
(14:00):
birth, everything, but he's alsobecoming a father at the same
time.
Like this is like, no matterhow many children you have, um,
every time a baby is born, he'sbecoming a again, as well as you
becoming a mother again.
So if you, if one person, isoff, then it's going to be hard
to bond together and it's goingto create friction between you
two.
So I feel like men also need tobe in touch with their emotions
(14:23):
more, not saying to like belike a woman, like oh my God you
know, but they just be like, belike, okay, you know what I'm
feeling this certain way and Ineed to address it, and it's
okay for me to talk about it,like my wife is not going to
look down upon me of being lessthan a man for talking about
emotions.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Um, so, just being open and having communication
throughout your, whatever it is,it's going to create a strong
bond, inshallah so we're talkinga little bit about the medical
perspective, and so I want tokind of harp on that a bit.
What, what do you wish everymuslim woman knew before getting
pregnant, especially in termsof health, body literacy, even
(15:00):
fertility?
Speaker 3 (15:01):
yeah.
So, like I said in thebeginning, um, to prepare your
body for anything.
Fertility, you know, whateverit is, you need to prepare
yourself.
It's not it's like climbingmount whatever it is, you need
to prepare yourself.
It's not it's like climbingMount Everest.
Okay, like, you need to work onyour nutrition, you need to
work on your exercise.
I'm not telling you to, likeyou know, do these crazy diet
trends or try these crazysupplements that you know
(15:21):
nothing about.
Or go to the gym and start, youknow, lifting like 500 pounds
or something.
Work slowly.
It's okay to start off slowly,um, but just know that your body
is an amana, like I'm a like.
This is something I say as afitness coach all the time.
Allah gave us these bodies as atrust, um, and when we say inna
lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un,it's not just our souls going
(15:43):
back to allah, it's our entirebeing.
Like allah is going to look atour bodies that he gave us and
be like what did you do withthis?
I gave this to you as a trustand I expected you to take care
of it.
You know, and it's not just theouter look, it's our internal
organs, everything, like when wehave to think about every
little thing that we havecontrol over, and Allah is going
to ask us about that.
(16:04):
So, starting from even beforeyou get married, okay, you need
to focus on proper nutrition.
We live in a life where we'reso privileged to eat whatever we
want, but yet we still choosethings that are just like going
to destroy our bodies internally.
Not saying I'm perfect, like Ihave that problem as well,
sometimes like we indulge, whichis fine, but again like we have
(16:27):
to really focus on the types ofthings that we're eating and
consuming.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Well, that's scary.
That's just the idea that we'regoing to be asked about.
You never know, Maybe Allah isgoing to ask us about every bite
we ever took, right yeah yeah,exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
I want to talk a little bit about fears, Because
of course, fear is a big thing,both with men and women more so
women, I'm assuming and that youknow it's scary, Like you said,
you know the whole process islike over medicalized.
So what is a more holistic, orcan you talk us through a more
holistic empowered birthexperience and what that looks
(17:05):
like, and how culture I mean youtouched on this a little bit in
the beginning, but how cultureis going back- yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
So, like I said, um, it's always going back to allah,
always understanding that allahis not going to give us
something that we can't handle.
And the biggest thing is thatwe see it all over social media,
we see it in movies, wherechildbirth is just like this
unbearable thing where a womanis not relaxed until she takes
an epidural or she takesmedication Not saying that you
(17:32):
shouldn't, because medicationsare life-saving procedures which
, again, like you, have to havethe knowledge to understand when
and how to take it, but justunderstanding the main thing is
that Allah is entrusting me todeliver this child because this
is his child, like Allah gavethis to me.
You know, it's not justsomething that I created on my
(17:53):
own.
This is from Allah.
So it's always having thatfocal point of doing this for
the sake of Allah.
You're not doing this foranybody, but for Allah.
So, again, like when you haveit, I think of it as a triangle
all the time.
So it's you, your baby and thenAllah.
Allah is always at the top.
So when you have that mindsetthat Allah is not punishing me
(18:16):
to go through this pain becausesometimes lots of cultures say
that it's a punishment for womento have babies it's a
punishment from Allah.
Allah is punishing you for goingthrough this.
I mean, I've heard it, notpersonally, but through my
clients.
So it's lots of mental work aswell, because when we grow up,
thinking these things all thetime, it's just like wow, like
it's true, and then we prepareourselves for the worst.
(18:37):
So just always remembering thatyou know Allah is putting me
through this because he wants meto, he wants my sins to be
forgiven or he trusts me to havethis baby, and you know he's
pleased with me.
Like if Allah wasn't pleasedwith me, he wouldn't let me bear
a child and be in thissituation.
And I always tell moms thatAllah is choosing you to be in
(19:00):
the same situation as Maryamalayhi salam.
So when we think of that, we'rejust like, well, this is
exactly what she went throughand this is what Allah talks
about in the Quran.
He's also kind of reiteratingthat and speaking to me as well.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
SubhanAllah.
When you put Allah in thecenter of everything, it just
reframes the whole mindset.
It makes everything easier.
Zaid, you mentioned somethingabout fertility and I just
wanted to ask you.
I know you work with women whoare already pregnant, like
alhamdulillah, but do you haveany knowledge about like
(19:34):
fertility problems in the Muslimcommunity?
Is it common?
Is there any kind of percentageor studies?
Speaker 3 (19:41):
yeah, so there actually are fertility doulas as
well, so there are doulas thathelp you with fertility and they
are Muslimlim.
So, um, if you guys ever needcontacts, I can hook you up, um,
or I can just give you the linkto share with your um, your
viewers as well.
Inshallah, um.
But yeah, like there are thesethings that exist and it's just
upon us to actually look for itand think.
(20:03):
And the thing is like peoplethink, um, it's like a hoax or
it's like a waste of time andmoney.
It's because nobody reallytalks about it.
But if you do talk to peoplewho did have, like, a fertility
doula, then they can tell youall the benefits that they've
reaped from having one okay andis it?
Speaker 1 (20:18):
is it a common problem in the muslim community?
Speaker 3 (20:22):
uh, I, from what I know, um, I don't have any
percentages or anything, butthere are times where I do talk
to women.
They're just like I I can't getpregnant, or my husband is
having issues.
We don't know what to do andmore often times than not, they
take the medical route.
Um, just because it's, it'sthere, it's whatever.
Okay, fertility issues, ivflike it always goes hand in hand
(20:45):
, right, um, but again, likepeople don't know that a Muslim
fertility doula actually exists.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
And is there a way for people who are not, like,
married yet to prepare orprevent these types of problems?
Yeah, so with women.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
I mean men and women.
You can take blood tests, right, and then it can show you your
levels of hormones, what needsto be worked on if you're doing
okay and anything of that sense.
But then again it's just reallypreparing yourself physically,
mentally and emotionally.
So when I say I know we talkedabout consumption of, like what
(21:21):
you're eating, but another thingI always tell people is that
our eyes, ears and mind are alsoconsuming things.
So it's not just what we'rephysically eating.
So if we're watching somethingor reading something or just
listening to something, like,our eyes are consuming it, our
ears are consuming it, our mindis consuming it and it's going.
We need to feed those thingsbetter things as well.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
You mentioned epidural before.
For those who don't know whatis an epidural, how does it kind
of play out during the process,and are you for it or against
it?
Speaker 3 (22:08):
failing to progress is what they say.
It's called FTP failing toprogress.
But us doulas we like to callit failing to be patient,
because they're just not patientwith the whole process.
That's like a whole nothertopic.
But the thing is I'm not for oragainst any medications.
Like I believe, everything issent down, like Allah gave us
these tools for a reason and,like I said, certain medications
can be life-saving, but it's upto us to not abuse it, like,
(22:29):
for example, tylenol.
Okay, if we have like a smalllittle headache, there are
different ways to alleviate it.
But if it's something that'sextremely major and then, like,
tylenol is available, I'm notgoing to say, okay, you know
what?
No, don't take it at all.
No, it's there.
If you like to take it, then goahead, as long as we're not
abusing it.
Same thing for epidural.
Epidural is basically thisreally long needle that goes
(22:51):
into the mom's spine and itdrugs her and it numbs the lower
half so that she can't feel thecontractions or the pain as
much, and it's also often pairedwith fentanyl.
So you know, I give moms theknowledge about epidural just so
that they can make the decisionwhen the time comes.
(23:13):
There's also pitocin, which isthe synthetic form of oxytocin,
which I was talking about before, like that's what we need in
order to have our babies, likeoxytocin is the main thing that
helps us deliver our babies.
So, yeah, they give you thesynthetic form if they see that
you're quote unquote failing toprogress or like failing to be
(23:36):
patient, but then again like itcan have its benefits.
So, yeah, it's just veryimportant to understand all the
types of medications that theypossibly can give you during
your pregnancy, especially yourlabor and your birth, and as
well as postpartum, because evenafter you have your baby, they
try to push oxytocin or pitocinonto you so that you can deliver
(23:57):
your placenta faster oh okay,so it doesn't end with
childbirth?
Speaker 1 (24:03):
no unfortunately.
Unfortunately sometimes but anddo these medications?
I assume they come with risks,right?
Speaker 3 (24:14):
oh yeah, so everything, everything has.
So there's this acronym calledbrain that we like to use.
So um b, benefits are risks.
I intention a, um, ask, likeask questions, and then or
whatever I know I messed it upand then a and then n is now no
(24:35):
or never and like so you takethat acronym and you're like
okay, what are the benefits,what are the risks, what is the
intention of the informationthat I have?
What are the alternatives?
What if I ask a question?
And?
And what if I say now no ornever?
And like you have to go throughthat list.
Either you can write it down oryou can just ask it out loud
and ask yourself or your partnerand then make decisions based
(24:58):
off of that.
Okay, Wow.
What to consider online.
Yeah, it's not something thatyou just see online.
It's like, oh yeah, I'm goingto have my baby today there.
Yeah, it's not something thatyou just see online.
It's like, oh yeah, I'm goingto have my baby today.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
There's a lot that goes behind it.
Okay, how do like the family,the bigger family?
What kind of role can they play?
Should they be involved likethe mom, the sister, other
in-law, or like this is more ofa private moment thing?
Speaker 3 (25:24):
No, definitely have a village.
It takes a village.
It definitely takes a village,like if you don't have one and
if you don't really have thatconnection with your family.
You need to make your ownvillage, whether it's online or
in person at the masjid,whatever it is, you need to
carefully select those types ofpeople that are going to be for
you during that journey, becauseit has such an impact more of
(25:47):
an impact than you will everimagine Because when you're in
labor, you're starting to startto remember oh my God, this
person said this to me, Iremember they said that to me
and everything just startsflooding, flooding back to you,
and especially how certainpeople treated you.
You'll never, ever forget that,never.
Yeah, so they say you should,if you want to have a good
relationship with a mom aftershe's had a baby, treat her well
(26:10):
during her pregnancy, labor andbirth, because she'll never
forget it and it's true, you'llnever forget it, wow.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Okay, all our male listeners out there, treat her
well when you get married.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Like there's times where I remember something,
husband.
I'm like, yeah, I remember, um,I wanted something and you said
no.
I was like I still rememberthat.
Like I, like he was like Idon't remember that at all.
I'm like, yeah, I wanted friesand you told me it was too late
at night and you went back tosleep and I stayed up at night
crying and he was like I, Idon't even remember any of that
(26:45):
that's good.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
You brought that up food.
So a big thing that comes upthat I hear a lot of are random
hunger cravings.
Right, like women just cravethe most random thing.
Have you seen a lot of that?
Did you kind of go through thatlike just craving the most
random?
Speaker 1 (26:59):
stuff.
What are the craziest thingsyou've ever, ever heard of?
Speaker 3 (27:04):
I would eat a poutine with watermelon no way like
mixed together.
Yeah, that was like my biggestthing, so.
But the thing is about cravingsis that sometimes it can be a
diagnosis for deficiencies.
So sometimes women crave chalk,or they crave cardboard, or
they crave cigarettes, eventhough they've never smoked
(27:24):
before.
They've never smoked before andit can possibly be again like a
diagnosis, because your body iscraving something within that,
or the taste of something thatis similar to a mineral or a
vitamin, whatever it is, andthat can possibly be because
you're deficient in it and yourbody is like craving it.
But yeah, if women are cravinglike random things, like cookies
(27:50):
, cookies inside of a burgerI've seen that before um oh yeah
, like it's just, it's somethinglike now that I think about,
like it's so disgusting.
But during my pregnancy I'mlike, oh my god, I needed that,
like it's something that Ireally needed yeah, okay, I've
heard of peanut butter andpickles.
Yes, yeah, so like again, like,because, um, our blood volume
increases by 50 when we'repregnant, um, so we're obviously
(28:15):
like moving, our heart rate isup and we're constantly like in
this, like like, uh, we'resweating a lot, so our body
naturally feels like it needs torestore those electrolytes.
So we go for pickles or we gofor, like, sour things,
subhanallah.
So, again, like it's, it allcorrelates somehow.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Amazing, it's amazing yeah, um, so let's say
somebody's looking to getmarried.
Are there some, without likemaking the hoarding fees offered
?
What is?
Just some basic questions.
A guy can ask a match in orderto kind of cover that that topic
of childbirth and labor withoutjust making the person feel
(28:55):
uncomfortable yeah, that's agood question.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Um, so what you can do, instead of asking them
directly, um, you can ask, like,what is it like in your family
dynamic?
Like, if someone in your familyis having a baby or you find
out that they're pregnant, whatdo you guys do for that person?
Like, are you guys there forher?
Um, does anybody in your familyever talk about taking classes
together?
Has any of your anybody in yourfamily ever um thought about?
(29:18):
Um, you know just uh, thesetypes of discussions and what
they can do for us.
So, instead of like asking thembecause you like you can't ask
a woman directly like hey, howmany kids do you want to have?
Like, or like what's yourfertility?
Like, and vice versa, you can'task a man that either.
Like uh, because you don't knowthese things right.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
So you can look within the family or within
their close friends and see whatit's like that way is there a
way like to assess compatibilityin terms of like children, like
the vision for the future interms of children uh planning
for family?
Speaker 3 (29:53):
yeah.
So I mean, like you can ask, Iguess, directly like do you do
you like?
What do you think about havingkids?
And if they're like completelyopposed to the idea and they're
just like no, no, no, never,never.
And then like kind of delveinto it, like okay, like well,
why do you say that?
Like what if one day you decide, you just like change your mind
, like hey, like yeah, let'shave kids?
And then all of a sudden it'sjust really difficult to obtain,
um, and you can just ask themlike where did that idea stem
(30:16):
from?
Or why are you feeling that way?
Um, because you can't just gointo marriage and be like, okay,
yeah, this person is amazing,but our values don't align when
it comes to like family in thefuture, because that can cause
friction, right, and if it's, ifit's a red flag for you, then
listen to your gut.
But if you really do like thisperson, it's just that one thing
that's just like doesn't reallymake sense.
(30:36):
You can just ask them openly,like okay, why are you thinking
this way?
Like is it something thatyou're traumatized by?
Or you know what is what'sgoing on up here?
And it could be the same formen or women.
You know, women might feel likeI never want to have kids and
it could be, um, she's scared tohave a baby because she's here,
she's heard horror stories allher life, or um, and then the
man also needs to understand,like, okay, well, there are
(30:59):
different ways we can go aboutthis.
Like, I understand your fear,uh, and also validate their
feelings towards it as well.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Okay, Okay, I was just going to say that you said
traumatized, like sometimes likethe reason behind the specific
answer isn't like a convictionas much as it's trauma or lack
of information and sometimesconversations that could change.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Yeah, exactly yeah.
So it's just very important tohave that communication even in
the courting phase.
Even if nothing goes through,it's important to always have
that quality of communication.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
A weird question that just occurred to me.
Honestly, Like, how do Muslimmen feel about the fact that
it's I don't know like what'sthe percentage, but sometimes
it's a male OB who's doing allthe work?
Like, do muslim men get likeiffy about?
Speaker 3 (31:52):
it.
And yeah, I mean especiallywith culture because, again,
like this is a very intimatepart of their lives and having
like another male, for example,is just like well, you know?
Like what are you doing?
Um, but we have to understandthat sometimes, especially
wherever we are in the world,that's out of our control.
Um, there are there is shortagehappening right now, um, in
canada and ontario specifically,of midwives and ob-gyns, um.
(32:16):
So sometimes you get stuck withthe male and as muslims, we
have to understand that when itcomes to these types of things,
um, we can't really say no ifthat's our only option again.
So it's going through the brainacronym.
So we have to think of it likeif I don't have an alternative,
then what am I going to do?
And Allah is not going topunish us for that.
I understand like the husbandmight feel uncomfortable, but
(32:38):
then he also has to understandthat you're not doing it
intentionally.
Like it's not something likehey, yeah, I want a male OB.
Like it may occur sometimes,but it's very rare.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Okay yeah, the craziest story I've ever heard
is this couple.
They have six kids, mashallah.
And because the man was sojealous and didn't feel
comfortable about this, he endedup having his wife deliver all
six with a C-section,subhanallah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
And now she's suffering, suffering health
problems yeah, my mom also hadfive c-sections and she had a
male ob as well, not because mydad was uncomfortable with her
delivering with a male, um, it'sjust again.
He was the only one availableand uh, she had complications
and again, like she wasuninformed about uh everything.
So, yeah, she thought that washer only option.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Knowledge is power like really, especially in this
situation.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Oh yeah, 100% yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Let's say a couple find out they're pregnant, At
what point do they typicallyreach out to you?
At what point do you kind ofjump on to their journey of
childbirth and do you workdirectly with the OBGYN or like
how does that all kind of fittogether?
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Okay.
So usually when couples findout that they're expecting, it's
usually between the four likethe one month to a month and a
half range, and during that timelots can happen.
So I typically work withcouples when they start to feel
like they need to startobtaining knowledge and getting
(34:16):
that support from someone whohas, you know, knowledge behind
this.
So typically around 20 weeks iswhen we start to understand
what mom truly needs and thetype of knowledge that she needs
.
I don't work directly withOBGYNs or midwives.
I have, like my ownself-practice.
(34:39):
I'm certified through AmaniBirth, like I said, but then,
like, I just do it on my own.
Uh, self-practice, uh, I'mcertified through a mani birth,
like I said, but then, like Ijust do it on my own.
Um, my clients often do lettheir care provider know that
they do have me as a doula, um,and then I would say, 99 of the
time, their care provider isfine with it, they're okay with
it, um, and they know that I'mgoing to be there.
Uh, it comes time to have herbaby, inshallah, so yeah, but
(35:13):
then again, like, if a mom isalso struggling during the first
trimester of, like, maybe whenmorning sickness starts to kick
in and she needs some moresupport that way.
That's when they contact me aswell.
But, yeah, like throughouttheir entire pregnancy, we would
have meetings, we would haveclasses together, if that's
something that they're lookingfor.
And then, once they're likearound 38 weeks pregnant if
there are no complicationsbefore that or no signs of mom
(35:33):
going into preterm labor thenI'm on call for them from 38
weeks until they have their baby, and that can be like, okay,
I'm feeling this way or this ishappening, and we just stay in
touch the entire time untilthey're like, okay, I need, I
need you here to give me somephysical support.
So yeah, and then there's alsopostpartum as well, if they need
(35:54):
help after they have their babywith, like, breastfeeding or
bonding, any type of thing,learning how to change a diaper,
learning how to bottle feed, orif the mom had a C-section and
she needs help carrying her baby, changing diapers, baths,
whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Is this covered by insurance?
By the way, by OHIP.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Not OHIP, but there is an organization, like I said,
called Doula Canada.
They are covered, I believe, ifyou have private insurance,
because they are recognized byOntario.
But since my certification isthrough Amani Birth, it's not
recognized by insurance inCanada and I believe it is in
the US.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
So, yeah, okay um, so yeah, okay, has there, has
there been like situations umthat you were involved in or you
heard from other doulas where,like there became friction
between the midwife and thedoula or the ob and the doula?
Speaker 3 (36:51):
yes, this personally happened to me.
Uh, subhanallah, it's just,sometimes, um, a midwife or an
ob would feel like it's theirspace, and if they feel like
another person is, it's like ifyou have too many chefs in the
kitchen like right, it's justlike they feel like they can't
learn from one another, theycan't work together as a team.
So sometimes an OBGYN wouldstart to say things like, like I
(37:18):
said in the beginning, I have20 years under my belt, belt,
like you need to listen to me, Iknow better.
Um, even like midwives wouldsay the same thing, like I've
been doing this for so manyyears, I know what's happening.
Or, um, they just won't listento the mom's commands or wishes
if it's not needed, andsometimes they'll try to do
things to have the doula kickedout of the hospital.
(37:38):
Um, yeah, unfortunately, uh,it's very it's not as common,
but it does happen.
Um, unfortunately, uh, but theycan't because, again, we're
protected by our client and shewants us to ask a support person
.
Then they can't really sayanything, unless we're breaking
the rules, of course.
Then, um, like, if we're, uh,you know, trying to do things
that are medical, out of ourscope of practice, then then we
(37:59):
can get kicked out.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Wow, I know this is kind of an extreme situation,
but can clients give you powerof attorney?
Speaker 3 (38:07):
Yeah, I don't see why not.
If things are really likeagainst her will and the care
provider is doing things againstthe mom's will, then of course,
yes.
But the thing is like it getsswept under the rug because
they're just like, well, lots ofthe courts they say like this
is a medical thing and theydon't really have that knowledge
behind it.
So they're just like, well, wedon't know what's going, what's
really happening, what's goingon or anything like that.
(38:29):
So unless they have like videorecording evidence or voice
recording evidence or somethinglike that, then it can be taken
to the higher ups.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
But um, it very rarely, ever happens is there an
equivalent to a doula in ourMuslim culture?
Like previously, likehistorically?
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Oh, yes, yes, of course.
I mean doulas came from history, like it came from our ancestry
.
They always had someone thatwould take care of the moms
during her pregnancy, labor andbirth.
There would always be thatwoman there with them.
I think I forgot the Arabicterm for it it, but there is an
arabic term for it um.
I forgot, but uh, yes, therewas always somebody there, um,
(39:12):
to help them with anything, tohelp them with breastfeeding, to
help them with their pregnancy,if they're having aches and
pains, someone there to cook forthem, someone there to take
care of the baby for them,everything.
Yeah, it's very common's verycommon all over the world.
It's just, it's been, it's beenlost, unfortunately, especially
with the work culture and womenworking and, you know,
(39:33):
listening to doctors, and eversince OBGYNs came into the
picture, it's just been verypushed back back, like it's not
something that you don't see,like you see anymore, right,
right right, right and any lastadvice you would give our single
listeners um, just know thatcommunication is key.
That is going to create a strongbond from the beginning to the
(39:55):
end.
Be open, be like, communicate,and if you feel like you can't
communicate, then communicatethat with your partner.
Like, listen, and if you feellike you can't communicate, then
communicate that with yourpartner.
Like, listen, I don't feel likeI can communicate with you.
You know like I'm trying totell you these things and know
that there are resources outthere, such as therapy, couples
therapy and you.
Just, it's not something thatshould be ashamed to look into
(40:15):
or shameful to look into.
It's there for a reason.
Everything that we have in thislife is here for a reason and
it's up to us whether we take itor not.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Yeah, absolutely Beautiful.
Yeah, I'm glad we got todiscuss this topic.
Some might see it irrelevant tosingles.
Some might see it I don't knowawkward.
I'm glad we got to talk aboutthis and I hope our listeners
took a lot from this discussion.
Inshallah, we know we took alot.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
For sure yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Alhamdulillah.
I'm glad Alhamdulillah.
Thank you so much for sharingyour time and your knowledge
with us and our listeners andbeautiful listeners.
We'll see you in the next one,inshallah Alright.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
Assalamualaikum.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Assalamualaikum.
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