Capacity, connection and trust with Charlie Golightly

Episode Transcript
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Laura Jean (00:03):
Hello, hello, and welcome to this week's episode
of The dietitian values podcast.
And I've got a guest with metoday. It's been a little while
since we've had a guest on thepodcast, and I'm very excited to
be talking to this humananytime, but I always like when
I can bring a conversation withsomebody that I think is a very
cool human to you as well. SoI've got Charlie Golightly here

(00:25):
to chat today. And Charlie is aqueer, gender expansive
dietitian, educator, speaker andsupervisor. They're the founder
of Moxie mind, which is avirtual private practice based
in Denver, Colorado. They'repassionate about supporting
heart led clinicians to dobetter work through individual
and group supervision. They havea group program counseling
skills for dietitians who give adamn, which I love, that name,

(00:46):
the gender from the inside outcourse, and also humans. They do
some human centered businessconsulting. So I'll will also,
yeah, thanks for thanks forbeing here, Charlie. It's nice
to have you.

Charlie Golightly (01:02):
Yeah, thanks for having me so excited. Always
excited to chat with you.

Laura Jean (01:05):
Yeah, and I'd love to just, obviously, we've got
the official bio, of course, butI'd love to hand it over to you
to introduce yourself in or toadd anything to that, or what's
kind of, what's kind of front ofmind for you at the moment,
around you and what you'reholding.

Yeah, I think, if anything, I would add
just I'm always most interestedin doing the things that are
going to be connecting andcommunity driven, and hopefully
the group of people that I'minteracting with feel somewhat
at least values aligned. Yeah, Ithink I'm accustomed now to

(01:47):
being in, picking and choosingspaces that feel a little bit of
like a safety bubble, where wemight be thinking similarly or
making business decisionssimilarly, or living our lives
somewhat similarly. And not tosay that I don't value the
diversity of other thoughts andopinions and beliefs and things

(02:08):
as well. But yeah, I think oneof the benefits of private
practice is being able to sortof pick and choose people where
you're just vibing and reallygetting along together and sort
of getting it in the similarways.

Laura Jean (02:22):
Yeah, absolutely. I think I often talk about it that
it almost feels a little bitlike magic when you get to that
point where you're able to wherethe conversations you start
having, because your values dolead the way, just tend to be
aligned it's like, oh, thatsounds great. That sounds
exactly like me. Like, how didyou know it's like, well,

(02:42):
probably because you wereleading with your values for so
long that people knew,

yeah, it's so nice to meet people and just
have an instant sense of, like,connection or resonance in some
way.

Laura Jean (02:52):
Yeah, and I imagine it's not always been like this,
and I don't necessarily want to,you know, we didn't have to,
like, bash things out, but I'dlove to kind of hear a little
bit about your you know, yourjourney, your story, like, what
have you been up to? So how longhave you been a dietitian for?
I think I know that somewhere inmy head, but

(03:14):
yeah, easy to forget. I've beena dietitian for nine years and
running a small business forsix.
So what else have you been? Whatkind of got you here? What was,

Well, I think, as is the case for a lot
of us, my own disorderedrelationship with food led me to
initially want to become adietitian, and then later to
work in eating disorder spaces.
And I also think that mypersonality, and then some, you
know, nurturing environmentalthings led to me feeling a
strong sense of independence andwanting to work for myself,

(03:46):
which is how I ended up being abusiness owner. I think from
undergrad, I knew I wanted tohave a business of my own
someday, but I also am verypractical and very intentional,
and so I had this sort of masterplan in my head from the get go
that I would have a couple yearsworking in other places and

(04:06):
gaining some experiences feltinteresting to me before
launching a private practice,and that's what I did. So now
we're here, and my journey hasbeen really lovely. I mean, full
of ups and downs, as they alwaysare. But yeah, really have been
enjoying being a business owner,and at this point, can't really

(04:26):
imagine working for someoneelse.

Laura Jean (04:32):
Yeah, and do you feel like when you first started
out, that you had that same kindof, like point of alignment,
like that you mentioned before,like, did that? Did that kind of
happen sooner rather than laterfor you?

Unknown (04:47):
Hmm, I think no. It's sort of hard to remember in some
ways, especially because runninga private practice especially
feels like such an extension ofyourself. It's like I am the
Business and the business is me,but so I know that I've always
been a part of it, but I knowthat also, in the beginning, you

(05:09):
know, I really struggled withthis idea, there didn't seem to
be many strong blueprints of howthe heck to have a business or
to make a private practice,there's lots of coaches and
suggestions and courses andthings you can buy. But it just
felt like, but how do I makethis my own? And so yeah, the

(05:31):
first several years, andprobably to some extent still, I
it was this like, Okay, well,I'll try this thing because
someone else told me to do this,or someone else is doing this,
and they seem to be making itwork, air quotes somehow. And
then me kind of like reflecting,reconfiguring, maybe unpacking

(05:53):
and redoing some things to feellike it, yeah, was more aligned,
and more me, more mine.

Laura Jean (06:00):
So do you feel like, for you, it kind of that shifted
to go from kind of like, oh,this is kind of, you know, how
you do it this day figured out,to then figuring it out, well,
this is how I do it. How I wasthat, like a bit of a sort of
fuck around and find out processfor you, or were there specific
things that supported you tokind of to find that, or to or
that, like little whetherthey're kind of like big aha

(06:22):
moments or just that kind ofslow burn,

Unknown (06:26):
yeah, probably a mix of all of that I definitely have
been fucking around and findingout for a long time, but also
just maybe finding, findingpeople that felt more aligned,
and then the suggestions thatthey might have, or ideas they
might have just feel more maybecollaborative from the get go,
rather than like a mandate thatI felt, that thought of like,

(06:47):
this is the one and true way todo this thing. I remember taking
a really, in hindsight, gross,like, course, in the beginning
of my practice on sales, and itused these really disgusting
sales tactics, and I had adiscovery call with someone
actually who then later became aclient, and they shared with me

(07:08):
like that first call was reallygross, like I already knew you,
and I knew I wanted to work withyou, but that call almost made
me not want to, because it wasso yucky. And I'm like, Thank
you for saying that, because itfelt so yucky to me. And so I
think it things like that wouldhappen. Or as I was starting to
say and stopped saying, meetingother people, connecting with

(07:30):
other people who I admired orshared values, or were also kind
of paving their own way. Andthen their suggestions felt more
like a deeper resonance, or Ikind of like, could put a little
bit more trust in it, because Iknew I already felt some sense

(07:51):
of alignment with them, or theway they were doing things. So
it felt a little less like,Yeah, I'll throw some spaghetti
at the wall and try this out,and more like this really feels
in my bones like this might be athing that works well for me.

Laura Jean (08:06):
Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Because I think
that experience, I think that'sreally common for a lot of not
just dietitians, but you know,any kind of individuals that
don't align with the values ofthe systems we're embedded in.
When you know, you come acrossthat business stuff and try it
out, and to realize, oh,actually, yeah, that's not for

(08:27):
me and to but and having thoserelationships, yes, where people
can share that with you, whichisn't always the case, but one
thing that I kind of noticehappening, and I don't know if
this is your experience, ormaybe this happened for you, or
you, you know throughconversations is, though, in
those situations, there's oftenthat kind of pendulum swing of

(08:48):
like, either, oh well,marketing's just all marketing's
gross, I've got to throw it inthe bin, or I suck at this, so
I'm no good at kind of doingbusiness, as opposed to what it
sounds like you found, whichmight not have been what the
initial revelation was for you,but like, of, oh no, that's just
not for me. So there must besomething another way that I can
do this.

Yeah, absolutely. I think for a while
it did feel sort of all ornothing, of like, Oh my gosh.
Well, all of the information Ihave on marketing, for example,
just feels like garbage to me,like we're preying on people's
insecurities or trying tomanipulate them into something
and so then, I mean, I thinkalso the nature of having a

(09:31):
nutrition private practicethat's an arm of healthcare, the
marketing is just different thanwhen you're doing more what I'm
doing Nnw, which is supervision,education, other things like
that. And so, you know, themarketing felt less, almost like
applicable at some point when Iwas seeing nutrition clients,
because it was focused more themarketing air quotes was like

(09:56):
having coffee with a therapistwho I really liked, you know.
Kind of connecting and makingsure we felt values aligned and
sort of had some level of trustto send clients to each other,
versus, I don't know, making aFacebook ad gross, you know,
just like the things changed,but I would say that now, in the

(10:20):
last few years, doing, steppingaway from nutrition counseling
services that I have had to reexamine my marketing efforts and
not only consider what alignswith my values and what doesn't
make me feel super gross to putout there in the world, but also
what is within my own capacityand interest, because I think

(10:42):
there's this other piece thatcomes in with marketing and just
like running a business and kindof hustle culture under
capitalism in general, which isthere's always something more
you could be doing, and maybethe flashy, sparkly thing you
desire is just a little bit moreeffort ahead. You know, if you

(11:05):
just do this one more thing orthe special way, or you just
keep working a bit harder, thenyou'll have this glimmering
thing, and I just don't thinkthat's rooted in reality all of

Laura Jean (11:17):
Yeah, no. And I think for many of the people you
the time.
know, there's those parallelstoo. For even if people haven't,
sort of noticed that, from thebusiness point of view, those
parallels from the diet culturepoint of view of just it's that
next diet, that next diet'sgoing to be the thing. And so
yeah, in the business world, forsure. And yes, of course, you

(11:37):
know. And everyone listeningknows that. I think the values
pieces is huge because it, itallows us to sort of see and the
piece that you touched on there,that capacity, that other, that
other piece of it is turning ourvalues towards ourselves. So
it's not just using our valuesto choose well, that marketing
strategy aligns, but actually,like you know, as an external

(12:00):
thing I want to put out there.
But also, then what actuallytakes care, like based on
whatever values that are the fitfor you, but what actually
allows me to show up as myself,to honor my capacity to actually
not continue to extract. BecauseI think sometimes what I notice
is that first step of realizing,Oh, gross. I don't want to

(12:21):
extract from other people. Idon't want to play that kind of
value of the capitalism game. Idon't want to play any games,
but I don't want to enact thatand going that next step of
noticing how we're turning likethat disconnect of those values,
our values, versus thosecapitalist values of extraction

(12:42):
towards ourselves, particularlyin business, is Yeah, can be
trickier,

absolutely well, and I mean, it's annoying
that capacity often yeah doesn'tsort of play capitalism's game
capacity is in many ways, veryunpredictable. And there I've
certainly heard throughout theyears, like certain systems of
sort of trying to track ormonitor or plan for, you know,

(13:12):
within like menstruation cycles,for example, when you might be
most productive versus when youmight need a rest, or kind of
looking at your planner orwhatnot, and thinking ahead, but
even that only gets us so far,and so I think, and this is not
unique to me or to us or thisconversation, but you know,

(13:33):
there's this ongoing thread ofthought that, what if we
oriented our business aroundourselves and our capacity
instead of The other way around,which I think is often what the
messaging and the culturalassumption is under capitalism
is like, well, you have thismany hours in a week, so what
are you going to do with it?
Right?
and we know, but we also knowthat an hour can be so different

(14:03):
day to day, especially when you,I mean, you could speak to
having children, I can speak toI can't I maybe you have other
pieces as well that you couldspeak to. I don't want to speak
for you, but I know I can speakto, like chronic illness and
navigating all of the unexpectedbumps that come up when you're
supposed to be having a session,right? Doing something else,
right? So, and just like theworld being such garbage lately

(14:29):
and all of these unprecedentedevents on top of each other, so
I think that our capacities arealways fluctuating. And the
other harsh reality of running abusiness is that a lot of times
you don't really get paid if youdon't work. I also so I think
there's a lot of pressures tomanipulate our capacity and show

(14:53):
up in a certain way, or show upperiod when we might not
actually have sort of the spoonsor the energy to do that

Laura Jean (15:02):
yep, and yeah, I think that there's that piece
there and just that little last,there's so many things about
what you said that I couldfollow along with this, that
last bit about, you know, wedon't get paid. And then, so
then it becomes like, I think wecan get stuck in that idea that
that is a, like, a setcondition, which, obviously, in

(15:25):
capitalism, it is a setcondition, and going that next
step of thinking, Well, whatelse could exist? As far as,
yeah, maybe not. We can'toverthrow the whole system.
Hopefully, these podcasts don'tget screened for like, sort of
keywords, like other spaces andplaces, but, like, how can we
change our system, like, ourecosystem, like that kind of

(15:46):
that immediate space is sort ofwhere my mind went straight
away. Because I think often wesort of stop at that point of,
well, if I don't work, I don'tget paid, and that is the only
way, or that is, like, the onlyexistence which it can
definitely feel like, obviously,in our systems, and you know,
who benefits, it's definitelynot us. So, like, that's not to

(16:07):
gaslight people into thinkingthat there are other ways. And
if we could just, we could justimagine different things, which
we can but there's the realitythe both/and, of course, how,
like, what are some of thepractices? Or might not be
practices, but how do younavigate that for yourself,

(16:31):
around that space, like when,either when those kind of ideas
come up and or those thoughtswhich try and pull you outside
of it, or what do you have tokind of help you, to guide those
times when you do push becauseyou do need to get paid, and how
to maybe, like, a bit of aguardrail or boundary that that

(16:54):
not stops you getting is better.
But anyway, I don't know if youknow kind of where I'm where I'm
going with this question waslike, how do you support
yourself to and again, maybeit's been fucking around and
finding out and build that trialand error and getting burned out
and coming back from effort.
Yeah, so what's sort of been,what do you have in place now?
What do you try and hold tosupport you in that?

Yeah, it's tricky, because things are sort
of always evolving, and sosometimes tactics that I've used
in the past don't work in theend of, you know, in a certain
situation, but I definitely havesome tangible ways that I try to
navigate, mostly around managingmy time and boundaries around

(17:38):
that and like energy, and thenalso some more, almost like just
mental and emotional tolerancebuilding, or, you know, other
ways that I'm trying to managethat energetic piece of the

(17:59):
scarcity mindset and the fearand like all these other pieces
that can come up in the mix. Soyeah, I feel like one of the
things that is really helpful tome, especially knowing just kind
of the physiological happeningsof our brains when we're in some
sort of stress response, andknowing that, you know, our

(18:21):
logical prefrontal cortex, likerational thought, sort of goes
offline, I find it reallyhelpful for me to just have,
like, a running list. So in myphone, for example, I have an
ailments and remedies, sort oflist that, in part, is related
to some of my chronic healthconditions, just like quick

(18:42):
links to a video that I forgetabout when I have a certain, you
know, condition or something,but also around work, I think it
can be helpful to have just alist for yourself of ideas,
because, especially again, whenyou're in a panic state, it can
be easy to forget like, oh yeah,I can put on a Vacation
Responder on my email that says,like, I'm not responding to

(19:03):
emails. Here's a quick link orsomething, or, you know, maybe
I'm more intentional about mytime, like booking people only a
certain number of people on acertain day or in a certain time
frame, or taking bigger breaksif I can get it, or things like
that, like the sort oftangibles, and then, yeah, it's

(19:24):
also, I feel like I'm sort ofconstantly asking myself, when
something big and scary, like abig scary story comes up, like,
oh my god, if I don't pushthrough this migraine and see
this person today, I'm not goingto make any money. And then,
like, you follow the thread, andit's very scary what could
happen, right? And I don't wantto minimize the that that is a

(19:46):
reality for a lot of us, likeliving under capitalism, that
that is a real reality, and itis terrifying. But also, I think
I I'm constantly asking myselfkind of what you were saying,
Who benefits from this? Or wheredid this come from? Right? And a
lot of times it's somethingoutside of me and outside of

(20:07):
that moment, and I think again,like working, you know? So
there's kind of like this selfsoothing reminder piece that
I'll do with myself, or thisexploration place, place if I'm
in the head space for it, oftrying to follow the thread,
where did this come from? Doesthis feel like it belongs to me?

(20:28):
What do I do if not? How do tryto release that. And I'm kind of
oversimplifying it. It's notthis easy, but for the same and
then also, yeah, like thissoothing part of myself, this
kind of adult parental figurewithin me that has to show up
some of the time to say, this isreally grieving. This is really

(20:51):
hard, this is really scary. Ilogically know that I could
reschedule and like I could,quote, make this work
financially, or whatever theother fear is, yeah, and I think
that I've had to do a lot ofgrief work and yeah, just kind

(21:14):
of like regular learning toregulate myself constantly in
this work, both in The nature ofmaybe, like the conversations,
or the actual tangible work andall of the shit that comes up
around it, and running the showfrom the back end.

Laura Jean (21:31):
So what you're saying is it's messy.

Yeah, it's so messy

Laura Jean (21:36):
you don't have a three step blueprint for us.

So sorry. I'm so sorry. I wish I did, but also
that would be bullshit, like, ifI did awesome. This is bullshit.

Laura Jean (21:48):
Well, it makes me think of like, you know, how you
were talking about the, youknow, tracking and those kind of
things and those kind of waysthat are out there, and all of
those kind of things can behelpful and can be supportive.
I've done many of those thingsmyself, and there's that kind of
can get to that point where theybecome whether it's us doing it
to that system, or somebody elseis doing it and then selling it

(22:09):
back to us, where they start toget co opted by the values of
capitalism and the values ofthat idea of like, okay, we can
do a thing with this. And it'slike, well, I can track my
cycle. I can do this so that Ican be more productive, as
opposed to so I can know myself,so I can take care of myself.

(22:32):
But yeah, so, yes, sort of likethat. You know, ie for weight
loss kind of vibe. Well, thatthing looks really good. Okay,
now we could use it for thisthing. Now we can, we can pull
that out of it. But yeah, it, Ithink that's that piece. Because
I think there can be the, again,that pendulum swing of like,

(22:56):
oh, I can't do that because Idon't have x, y and z to be able
to do that. Or I tried it and itdidn't work for me, because it
wasn't like, not the peoplealways looking for easy, but
because there wasn't, you know,because it felt uncomfortable,
it felt messy. It didn't workstraight away. And even when
you've been practicing it for10, 15, 20 years, you still have

(23:16):
to practice it every day,because that's not the

that's the most annoying part about self
work.

Laura Jean (23:23):
I thought it was 10,000 hours, and we were
experts. God damn it,

yeah, I thought there was a finish line
somewhere.

Laura Jean (23:30):
There is a finish line. And we don't want, well, I
don't want to get to that finishline myself just yet. There's,
there is a finish line. There'sonly one.

You're right, you're right.

Laura Jean (23:42):
There is one, but, um, it's not the one we've been,
you know, sold, or, you know, orprogrammed to think about kind
of finish line. But I thinkactually something like you said
before, I often when you weresaying about how, you know,
sometimes you are feeling this,and then you have to be the

(24:05):
person to be the parent, be the,be the basically, like, that
kind of same role. Becausesometimes I look at my kids and
I think, Man, I wish I had a mumwho could just step in right
now, because it's just like, oh,like you can just like your
water bottles empty in themiddle of the night, you just go
like, 'mum, can you fill thisup' Oh my god, wouldn't that be

(24:27):
amazing, but again, the messyreality as adults is that we, we
are we. We have to do that wrongtoo, god damn it. So anyway,
just made me think of thatbecause I'm often lamenting that
piece for myself?

I know, yeah, no, I definitely agree.
Sometimes it's really annoyingto have to be the responsible
adult in the room, even whenit's just you with yourself. And
I also feel like I've been doinga lot of self work around like
allowing myself to have thatInner Child experience sometimes
to, like, throw a temper tantrumor just be really vocally upset

(25:05):
about something, even if it'sjust Me, myself and I having a
temper tantrum. Yeah, I thinkthat that feels important, at
least for me and part of theYeah, like, grieving and having
an emotional response and andacknowledging that, I guess I
think for myself. I don't knowif other folks in business feel

(25:27):
this, but especially when I'm asolopreneur, so like, just me in
the business, and I often feel,there's a pressure that if I
don't get it done, then itdoesn't get done, right? And so,
and then we add in every layerthat we've already mentioned, of
like, I don't know any sense ofurgency or hustle or just
needing actually prioritizethings to be done, to get paid,

(25:50):
or whatevern the thing is that Iam so good at sort of keeping my
shit together so that things getdone and things kept rolling.
And so it's almost been this.
There's been a radical processfor me in sort of learning that
a little bit, and learning howto make it messy again and like

(26:11):
sort of fall apart at differentmoments, because trying to
constantly keep it together alsofucks with my capacity, I cannot
do that sustainably, and it'snot real.

Laura Jean (26:26):
Yeah, because at what cost does that come? Yeah,

yeah, exactly,

Laura Jean (26:37):
yeah. And I think, yeah, you know, that is that
messiness and those practices,and it's also we're embedded in,
particularly in business, thatkind of, that vibe,
unfortunately, of somebodyalways kind of trying to promise
that they have or, like, there'sthat allure of that next thing,

(27:00):
you know, It's this thing, it'sthe cycle tracking, or it's the,
it's just this planner, I mean,but, you know, go and buy all
the planners. Because clearly,there could plan, as I really
could, I think, but, you know,like that, there's this, there's
this thing that we're missing,or there's this next thing that
we could find, that could be theanswer, like, you know, that
keeps us in that kind of, yeah,like looking for that thing.

(27:25):
Like, okay, so I'm not going towhite knuckle and push myself
through so now I've got to lookfor this thing that, you know,
that tendency to look for that,I suppose, that solution outside
of ourselves or that, or evenjust looking for a solution like
that, there is a solution atall.

Oh yeah, I love doing this. I'm the kind of
person that when I get hyperfixated on something, I'm like,
checking out 10 books in thelibrary, researching every
podcast on the topic. You know,just like really trying to
absorb all of the content. And Ifound myself doing this several

(28:00):
months ago, where I was like,Maybe I should, I should take a
course or read several books orpodcasts or whatever on my
relationship with money, which Ithink, to be fair, is like a
fabulous thing to do foryourself, is to examine your
relationship with money. Andthere are so many ways of doing
it. But also I have, like, donemany courses and books and

(28:25):
podcasts on that topic over theyears, and so for me, sometimes
when I'm in that moment, I'mlike, Oh yeah, something else
has happened for me, likesomething else is scared the
shit out of me, something elselike, created a sense of urgency
around this, and not always, butI feel like often, if I can sort

(28:49):
of slow it down enough and calmmyself down enough to repeat and
to actually genuinely believethat I already have everything
that I need, like that feelslike a very profound moment. And
of course, there's like anasterisk around that. There's a
ton of nuance. Because, ofcourse, there's, I'm also a

(29:11):
person who has a sort of growthmindset about me. I love being a
learner, and there are alwaysthings that I can learn more
about. But when, in particular,when those moments feel that are
so sort of frantic and fraughtand like you're saying, like I
just need someone to tell me theanswer, I just kind of already
know that that's unlikely thatsomeone else, maybe someone

(29:36):
else, would sort of repackagesomething I might already know
to me, in a different way thatcould really hit differently or,
yeah, just kind of like hearingsomething slightly different or
new in there. But for the mostpart, I think for me, when I'm
in those moments, it's, it's adream, there's there's allure of

(29:59):
there being some secret answerthat I don't I've never heard of
so super fruit or whatever. Yes,

Laura Jean (30:09):
it's out there. I know, and it, and I think it,
it's that sense of safety piece,right? Like so and I can, I can
really resonate, because I finda sense of safety in researching
and knowing and trying to knowall the information about a
thing, because then that will belike, then I'll know all the
things that's my, that's mythat's my sense of control, kind

(30:30):
of element coming up, are you anEnneagram 5 as well.

No, actually, I'm a nine.
Absolutely, I did the samething. I'm like, have you read
You're a nine. Oh, that'sbecause there's that real drive
I find in a fivei to research,I mean, there's also the, if you
were somebody who, you know,was, has been, always been
pretty intelligent and like,yeah, found safety and
knowledge, found praise in like,knowledge and knowing answers
these five books that allmention the topic you mentioned,
and found connection. You know,there was the, yeah, I think

(30:58):
there's that piece too. So allsorts of bits. But yeah, I can
relate to going down theresearch. I'll say to a friend,
if I sent you an article or athing or some research, know
that's my love language. I'msaying. I'm like, the cat
presenting the mouse, the deadmouse. I'm saying, here's a
little something I researchedfor you.

Laura Jean (31:27):
but yeah, and it's that knowing, I think, comes
back to that idea of, like,yeah, knowing ourselves around
what, what those kind of, youknow, to use some some more
modern, modern culturalnomenclature of like, you know,
red flags, those, those kind oflittle signs for us to know when
we're going down that rabbithole of, yeah, being pulled away

(31:49):
from ourselves, being pulledaway from that trust in ourself,
and looking outside ourselvesfor the answers. However, that
might come, whether it's somefor some people, it might be by
like, you know, they might findtheir way they tend to feel
safe, is buying another courseor doing that or other actions.
For us, it's researching things.
And I imagine many of thelifelong learners listening

(32:12):
along, can relate to that. Onefor sure, the information that
the answers in the next book,surely, yeah, or the next
podcast, you know, I'll listento it at 2.5 speed so I can find
it really quickly.

Oh, right, yeah, 2.5 speed. And like 5 a
day, you know. So I'm reallyabsorbing the content. In other
words,

Laura Jean (32:37):
look, if I can just intellectualize and not have to
embody the fact that I actuallyjust have to trust myself and
trust myself and know that it'smessy, then won't that be easy

What an annoying answer that is
sometimes, I have to trustmyself.

Laura Jean (32:51):
where's my mom.

Yeah, I often find myself just moving in the
same circle again and again. I'mlike, oh, here we are back to
trusting myself. Got it. Youthink I'd like learned the
lesson, but no, sometimes youhave to have a panic-library
visit.

Laura Jean (33:06):
Yeah. And I think of that too, though, that moving in
the circle is something that Ioften think about, is to it
looks like a circle from the toporfrom the outside, but really
it's that spiral because, yeah,we're back there, but we've got
a little bit extra, a little bitmore perspective, or we've
embodied it a little bit more,because each time, it doesn't

(33:28):
get easy, it's not linear, asfar as like, it's like, this
beautiful spiral and every timeit gets easier in that but I
feel like we often havesomething different or extra, or
when we when we get back in thatspot, yes, we're back there
again, and we've had someexperiences between now and last
time, maybe depending on howlong ago it was that, that we've

(33:49):
got something extra if we add inthat piece of listening to
ourself, I suppose, or listeningto our experience, and trusting
and doing like, you know whatyou're saying, those questions
where we unpack and pick away sowe can trust our experience,
where we don't gaslightourselves based on our cultural
values, our family of originvalues, all of those pieces that

(34:10):
want us to so that we don'ttrust ourselves, so that when we
get back to that same what feelslike that same spot, we continue
to enact those external lookingactions and safety kind of
mechanisms,

right? Yeah, and as you were saying that, I
was just thinking about, so I'veknown for a while that if I find
myself in a situation where I'masking all of my friends and
then like acquaintances or likestrangers on the street on how
to make a decision aboutsomething, I have completely
lost the plot, and, you know,should be checking in with

(34:44):
myself, like, how can I get moreclarity on this for myself,
rather than relying on otherpeople to somehow know the
answer for me, right? But Ithink the same thing can happen
with content. I mean, kind ofwhat we were just saying, but as
you were talking, I was alsothinking about Social Media, and
like Instagram in particular,about there's just so much out
there, like, even beyond thebooks and the podcast, then you

(35:08):
could go find random posts andblog posts, and, you know, just
like tick toks, like, there's,there's so much out there. And
so that, to me, feels likeanother way that I'm doing that,
right, like it, it sort of feelsmore obvious to me when I'm
asking when I'm like, texting orcalling people, but then also
noticing it, I'm recruitingrandom strangers on the internet

(35:30):
to then also influence thedecision for me. And I don't
know, I guess sometimes maybethat could have some benefit or
some merit, but also, like we'resaying if we end up ending in
the same spot of, I need totrust myself, or I need to check
in with myself. Yeah, all ofthat sort of content and
checking with other peopleisn't, isn't, ultimately

(35:53):
helpful.

Laura Jean (35:54):
So do you have again, anything for yourself, or
things that you support peoplewith or around or like, What are
some ways, if somebody'slistening to this, to support
ourselves to do that reorientingfrom that outward, looking
towards the inwards, like thattrust and things, you don't have

(36:15):
to be the Oracle with all theanswers. I'm just curious.

Great. Thank you for giving that

Laura Jean (36:22):
Just in case you thought I, I was waiting for
that big answer. That's hugesolution for us. So this could
be the podcast to end allpodcasts

We were teasing the audience this whole
time that I have no answers andthen, like, boom, I have the
answer. Yeah. No, I won'tpretend that I do. I The main
thing that came to mind when youasked that was trying to have a
conversation with someone thatyou really trust and feel
aligned with. Because I canthink of a couple people in my

(36:52):
life where, when I go to them toask for that, they give me an
answer. They respond with morequestions rather than actually
giving me the answer, which isalso what I train dietitians and
other professionals to do withtheir clients, right when they
ask you a question, can be kindof annoying, but to respond with

(37:13):
more questions and curiosity,rather than putting the pressure
on yourself and and the powersort of dynamic of having an
answer coming up with a solutionwhen you might not actually
know. So I think, yeah, leaningon people that I know are in a
place that can do that for me,and have sort of, I guess, some

(37:34):
skill or ability to show up inthat way with me. And it
honestly is so annoying, though,when they do it, even though I
know I go to them expecting thatto be like, Thank you for making
me reflect. Yeah, and I thinkalso that's something that I
tried to cultivate and curate,and in the services that I offer

(37:55):
too, like I can think of so manysupervision sessions where
people come in with a reallyspecific question or theme, and
one of my favorite things to dois to sort of notice all the
other stuff that they're like,sort of not saying so kind of
big themes that I might bepicking up on, or body language

(38:15):
or semantics, or other piecesthat, and just drawing attention
to it. Like, did you notice thatyou sounded really annoyed when
you just said that, or, youknow, just pieces like that. So
I guess the TLDR of that is ishave someone who can reflect
back to you without actuallygiving you an answer,

Laura Jean (38:37):
yeah, cultivating those kind of spaces,
communities, relationships,formal or informal, right, where
they can be, yeah, people whohold that space for us to look
in ourselves like it's for a bittrite, hold up the mirror, but
like, really, because what weare wanting to do is Yeah, to
trust ourselves and the peoplethat allow hold space for that

(38:59):
in whatever way that actuallyworks.

I also feel like having trying to minimize
stimuli as much as possible isreally helpful for me, because,
like we've been saying, thebarrage of inform,ation can be
really overwhelming and sort ofdrown out your voice and your
own sense of self in some ways.
So I find that the times I feelmost creative and the times I

(39:28):
feel most sort of self assuredand aligned within myself are
when I've been like hiking inthe woods for a little bit, or
even just a little walk, or likegetting out and not putting my
headphones in, or like leavingmy throwing my phone off a
cliff, is always a good idea forme. You know, just those things

(39:50):
I think are helpful and alsoreally hard, because we live in
we have an attention economy.
So. So

Laura Jean (40:01):
absolutely, yeah, I think that piece there of of
having that space to actuallyknow what your, you know, quote,
unquote voice, whether it'sliterally what you say or like
your felt sense of of that kindof like, what that actually
sounds like, because, and you'veprobably used this, you know,
strategy when you work withhumans, around their

(40:22):
relationship with food, andaround like, who says that, or
who said that? Like, becauseoften people will have these
little things, and there'sliterally somebody who has said
that in their life over and overagain. And I think that actually
figuring out your own voice,like, as far as like, what you
say versus what all those otherthings are, but yeah, you do

(40:43):
need to quiet the noise like youdo need to find that whatever
that feels like, whatever thatspace is for you as an
individual. we've gone like 53minutes, and it's the first time
I'm going to mention my garden.
So I reckon that must be my pastrecord. But for me, it's my
garden.

Yeah, we gotta mention that.

Laura Jean (41:00):
Sorry, We're nearly out of time, and I haven't
mentioned my garden yet. Wehaven't given any gardening
tips. I can't believe we haven'tgot there. Sorry, derail, but
yeah, you know those spaces,that place where you're held,
and where it's where it is, aclearing, and maybe it's not
exact silence, like obviously,everyone has to find the space

(41:21):
that works for themselves, butyeah, where you actually can
connect to what you sound likein your head or in your body, to
know when it's you.

Yeah, that's so important. I have no notes on
that, like that. Yeah, that'sjust important.

Laura Jean (41:41):
I was just thinking when you were saying that, like,
that's that reducing the stimuliand the stimulus to that, I
think, to make way. Well, one toto hear it, but yeah, that, that
piece of knowing, yeah, anyway,sorry, just made me think of
that. And also, clearly I neededto mention my garden, because we
hadn't yet so thread that in.

Well, yeah. I mean, yeah, obviously we have to
mention it. I even shocked wemade it this far without
mentioning in the garden. Iknow,

Laura Jean (42:01):
I know, for those of you who may or may not know, or
may or may not care, but I'mgoing to tell you anyway,
Charlie also has a garden, andwe often talk about gardens, and
sometimes share garden picks,

And it's so fun because we live across the
world from each other. Yourgarden is always like starting
as mine is ending, and viceversa. So we've got a real cycle
happening.

Laura Jean (42:20):
Oh yeah. I live vicariously through the summer,
the northern hemisphere, summercrops. And I know that, you
know, my my spring gardencontent currently is hopefully,
I probably people aren't lookingfor it just yet, because,
because it's fall and andeveryone's loving themselves
sick over fall and the fallleaves and things. But soon,
soon people will be, you know,be like, Yes, this is just the

(42:43):
content I need when the world'sblanketed in snow.

Yeah, we're really in our pumpkin spice era
right now. You know, as we, aswe as fall usually brings so,

Laura Jean (42:53):
It's so weird to me because pumpkin, here in
Australia is a savory food likeit has, obviously, pumpkin has
its own identity. I'm nottelling you pumpkin that you
have to be savory. However,like, we use it in more savory
dishes. Sometimes you'll add,like, a bit of sweetness to
like, you know, you might glazeyour honey, your pumpkin when
you roast it with a bit ofhoney, but you're serving it

(43:14):
with a roast dinner or in asalad with like, some feta or
leaves or whatever. So we don't,yeah, we don't make drinks,
coffee or things. I did, thefirst time I went to the US was
Thanksgiving, and I did havepumpkin pie, and that was
actually very tasty.

Okay, great.

Laura Jean (43:34):
I did enjoy that.
But, yeah, we don't, yeah, so Ialways the idea of a pumpkin
spice latte. I mean, I'm sureit's gross anyway, just just in
its own right, but as somebodywho eats like pumpkin soup and
pumpkin, like pumpkin, roastedpumpkin next to your roast lamb,
the idea that someone thought toturn that into exclusively

(43:55):
dessert, like it feels like it'smore exclusively a dessert based
food

yeah, yeah.
I've never had, I don't thinkI've ever had roast pumpkin.
Like, it sounds like you, youtreat it like the rest of the
squash family, yeah, which makessense, because it is a squash,

Laura Jean (44:14):
yeah, yeah. But yeah, if you've never had roast
pumpkin, I highly recommendroast

Okay, I'll put it, I'll put it on my list

Laura Jean (44:21):
if you like pumpkin though, like, if you don't,
well, how would you even knowyou like pumpking?
I don't know. Yeah, well likepumpkin seeds I've had savory
butyes, they're nice roasted on a
salad with roasted pumpkin. Sowhen I scoop, when I have my own
homegrown ones I scoop out theseeds and roast the pumpkin, and
then in the last five minutes Iput the seeds in when I'm
roasting it as well, and thatmakes a really nice salad

(44:42):
addition,

right? I'm coming to your house for dinner

Laura Jean (44:46):
anyway. So yeah, look, we've completely derailed.
I've completely derailed theconversation away from anything
but food and gardens. So no, butplease do. Oh, right now,
actually, yeah, because it'spumpkin season. Oh, you should
definitely get some, like thebutternut ones, actually. When I
was again, another time when Iwas in the US, I like, roasted
up some of the delicatasquashes. We don't get those
here, which obviously isn't atrue pumpkin, but along those

(45:07):
same lines. So yeah, keep goingwith the actual orange pumpkins.
Butternut ones, definitely.

Those are my favorite.

Laura Jean (45:16):
Yeah, toast, toast.
Those up. But yeah, like roastedpumpkin. Some like, fetta, like
match made in heaven, thosethose two.

Yeah, sounds excellent. Okay, now I'm hungry

Laura Jean (45:29):
So anyway, that's what you all came here for,
before

Give the people what they want.

Laura Jean (45:35):
Yeah, I can't come back from this. I've actually
just started planting my pumpkinplants. So full circle here, you
know, I'm beginning the cycle.
Charlie's finishing it up.
before we do wrap up. Though,one thing that I often like to
ask people to answer, and youdon't have to do it if you don't

(45:56):
want to. And it feels very meta,actually, because we were just
talking about seeds. But I oftenthere's a I have a favorite
quote that we're planting seedsfor a forest we may never get to
spend time in, and it's a quoteI ground myself back in when I
feel like, you know, what am Ieven doing here? So I'd love to
open it up to you, if you haveany seeds to plants for us, or

(46:18):
seeds that you are planting, ormaybe it's a seed that's
resonating for you, figurativelyor literally. I mean, if you're
planting actual seeds, you canshare that too.

Yeah, I definitely don't think this is
the only seed I'm planting. I'mreally into this quote, really
into this metaphor. But top ofmind, just because this is what
I was doing earlier today,before we started recording, is
I was teaching at a University,I teach one class per time, and
I'm just always thinking aboutplanting seeds, because it's a

(46:50):
sort of nutrition 101class thata lot of folks will take as part
of their science requirements.
So it's not exclusive to folkswho are going to be then working
like as dietitians or something.
So it definitely feels like alot of planting seeds around
weight neutrality and unpackingcultural, political norms around

(47:13):
food and bodies. So I'vedefinitely been planting the
seeds in that class of how do wethink about food beyond grams of
or calories? And I think yeah,reminds me a lot of the work
that I hope to put out in theworld other seeds I hope to

(47:33):
plant of just thinking aboutthings differently and a little
bit more zoomed out with more ofus included.

Laura Jean (47:43):
And you do so beautifully plant those seeds.
And I, yes, I see the ripples,those little tendrils of those
seeds, often in my work andconversation. So it's always
nice.

Thank you.

Laura Jean (48:00):
Speaking of work and and what you're up to. What are
you Yeah, what are you up to?
Did you want? Is there anythinggoing on that you want to share
or let people know if about whatyou're doing at the moment or
anytime doesn't have to be rightnow.

Yeah, you can always come hang out with me in
a supervision sense, whetherthat's individual or I often run
groups of supervisees as well,and if you are person who's on a
team or runs a team like a grouppractice, I also do supervision
for teams, and then I also lovespending time with folks in the

(48:36):
courses that I offer, they areboth sort of self paced virtual
courses, but they both includecommunity options, because I
love community, as I'm sure I'vementioned several times. So each
of them have Live Meetingsessions sort of baked in to the
process as well. One is'counseling skills for
dietitians who give a damn', andthe other one is for any type of

(49:01):
cis person really can be helpfulbut particularly to clinicians,
but folks in general who want tobe a better gender ally to any
gender diverse or expensivefolks that you might have in
your orbit, so those are themain ways to hang out with me.
You can also, of course, alwaysemail me. You will not find me

(49:23):
on Instagram. Most likely Idon't like it there very much.
So you can email me if you wantto say hi,

Laura Jean (49:29):
beautiful, and I'll drop that in the show notes,
etc. Yes, we didn't even get tothat about how you've quit
Instagram any of those pieces.
But anyway, so much, so muchCharlie, is so much more than
just this single conversation wehave had. But I would highly
recommend people connect. Igenerally if somebody's asking
me about supervision, you are inmy in my little initial

(49:50):
wheelhouse of people, I wouldrecommend, for sure, always let
Charlie be the person who asksyou annoying questions. eally
good questions,

That should be my new tag lines, I'll get
onto that yeah.

Laura Jean (50:06):
but also yeah and yeah, those different
perspectives and differentlenses around things which
people who hang around here areoften looking for. So thank you
for sharing those. I'll put youremail in the show notes so
people can reach out and yourwebsite and details and yeah,
people can do with that whatthey will? Anyone who wants to

(50:26):
follow up on Charlie'sexperience with roasted pumpkin
can also email.

Maybe an upcoming email newsletter, who
can say.

Laura Jean (50:36):
I know I will be following up on that, but thanks
so much for being here, Charlieand being in conversation. It
was always a nourishingexperience for me to be in
community with you and yeah. Andfor those of you listening,
yeah, thank you for being herewith us too. We appreciate you.

(50:57):
Well, I appreciate you. Ishouldn't assume that Charlie
does too. Sorry, Charlie,

I do, yeah, you can you can lump me in there

Laura Jean (51:05):
Okay, great, well, until next time. Bye for now.

Ta, ta.

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