Join host Kelly Driscoll in part two of her conversation with Kyle Hewson, Vice Chair and Clinical Associate Professor in the Doctorate in Physical Therapy program at Stony Brook University.
They discuss physical therapists' unique and impactful role in building personalized relationships and integrating psychology and ethics into PT education.
Learn how students at Stony Brook University are prepared for their future roles through hands-on projects and patient interactions, and discover the layers of learning experiences that contribute to their development as holistic and empathic practitioners.
For more information about this podcast, please visit our podcast website using the link below: https://bit.ly/3MfBqbo
Listen on Apple Podcasts using the link below: https://apple.co/3OkFVEn
Follow us on Social Media!
Twitter: https://bit.ly/3M9J7Qt
Facebook: https://bit.ly/3OgnIYw
Instagram: https://bit.ly/3Mjm4D8
Please visit our website at https://bit.ly/3IgGVFP
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to DigicationScholars Conversations.
I'm your host, Kelly Driscoll.
In this episode, you'll hear part two ofmy conversation with Kyle Hewson, Vice
Chair and Clinical Associate Professorin the Doctorate in Physical Therapy
program at Stony Brook University.
More links and information about today'sconversation can be found on Digication's
(00:24):
Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
Full episodes of Digication ScholarsConversations can be found on
YouTube or your favorite podcast app.
You know, I feel like the role of physicaltherapist and healthcare is so different
than the kind of relationship that onehas with a doctor, for instance, where
(00:45):
you have a really kind of Define periodof time that you're with them and, and
sometimes physical therapist you maywork with for months or years and really
become your partner in rehabilitation.
And you spend a lot of time togetheroften, um, depending on the extent
(01:06):
of, um, rehabilitation needed.
And it really does become a morepersonal relationship, I think, because
you have that amount of time together.
And you're often having a lotof time together when you as the
patient are in pain and alreadyvulnerable because of that.
(01:27):
And they become, you know, yourcheerleader and your support person.
And as you mentioned, also your teacher,um, because they're trying to give you
the tools to be able to kind of takecare of yourself when you're not well.
Right there with them and educate youon why certain movements or exercises
(01:48):
or, um, even breathing techniques, youknow, are so important in your healing.
Um, and I was curious as the students arekind of going through the program, there
is Is this kind of storytelling somethingthat's encouraged with their patients?
Um, because I think it's something that wedon't often hear about with doctors, for
(02:11):
instance, you know, because of the limitedtime that you're with them, really.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think there's two parts to it.
I think that we want to get I thinkall the things you said are spot on.
I mean, the sense of we, we want toencourage, we want to know them more.
So we want to hear about their, wealways, we'd say that every patient,
(02:32):
a diagnosis can be very similar, buttheir role in life, they could be a
mother, they could have a job in thecity that they have to take, you know,
two subways and then go up three,four, five or four flights of stairs.
They could, um, they could have, uh,you know, they could be an athlete that
they're trying to get a scholarship.
And, you know, this islike, are you kidding me?
This happened to me.
(02:52):
So we, the injuries are all the same, butthe stories behind it and all the roles
are complex and how they handle theirinjury and where they are in this, you
know, so you have the Cycles of grief.
I say, Oh, you, we tend to get themat like the anger and depression time,
you know, so, and then how do you,cause it's a huge change in their life.
(03:14):
Um, so how they cope andwhat we, so definitely.
So a lot of times we can, Connect.
So this, as I mentioned, so it's kind ofwhere they're at, but then also what can
we do in our experience of what we'veseen, how other patients have coped?
Can we bring someone in thatmight've, Oh, you know what?
You know, this person, thisperson over there on the other
(03:36):
side of the gym, she was just inthe same spot as you a month ago.
I'm going to bring you two togetherand just talk a little bit.
So that's really important.
Um, and then, you know, you, younever say as a therapist, I know.
You, you can say, I've hada lot of patients that have
struggled with what you have.
(03:56):
Um, sometimes there's a cycle, likea person gets better really fast
and then they kind of hang out andtakes a while to get, and this is
the boring and the tedious part.
And then like, do I ever get sex?
And then, and it's also hard fora therapist to say, you know, I'm
not sure if you're ever gettingback to the baseline that you want.
(04:18):
Right, right.
You know, to that athlete or to that, youknow, the person that has a neurological
disorder or whatever, so, right.
I mean, yeah.
Yeah.
So they do learn, I think it's a littledifficult for them that all, they're
not gonna help everyone and they'rehelping them, but not what they think.
That everyone's not getting back to ahundred percent that they're, they're at.
This is what I explained to them,they're shifting a phase, they're now
(04:40):
at a different phase in their lifeand what, how you influence and they
never, they never forget you as atherapist at that time, that's for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So true.
And I also think, I'm sure for yourstudents, there's also conversations
about how the patient has to be abig, you know, they have to make
(05:02):
decisions about how they're goingto take care of themselves too.
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah.
I agree, yeah.
So, how do we motivate and how can we helpthem adhere and, you know, be successful.
Give all kinds of suggestions andhuman nature, of course, is a biggie.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Are they introduced to, um, some kind of,kind of psychology around that process?
(05:30):
So you mentioned that very often they'remeeting people at this kind of grieving
stage and may be depressed because, youknow, it's a big transition probably from
where they were to where they are now.
So what, what kind of, how isthat introduced in the curriculum?
So that's right up my alley too.
(05:50):
So of course, one of the requirementsof coming to the program and Stacia
wide is they have to take a psychologyclass of some kind in undergrad.
So that could be normal developmentor it could be abnormal or,
you know with child, whatever.
So that's Many of them actually canbe in any kind of bachelor's degree
when they come, they can be musicians,they can, so psychology is a great one
(06:13):
if they are doing that because theyknow they're going to work eventually
with people that are in crisis.
Um, so this, In the first, uh, summer thatI mentioned that class, we do one course
on, um, one class on communication anda little bit on culture and why culture,
you know, you may come across this way.
I'm a, I'm a loud person.
I'm a, I talk fast, high energy.
(06:35):
That could totally not work with someonewho is just Just, you know, from a
different culture or not understanding,I'm giving too many directions.
Right?
Yeah.
So we just talk generally about that.
And again, they're still new.
Um, we share different experiences.
In the second year, we have a classand it's just started, um, it's called
psychosocial aspects of disability.
Mm-Hmm.
. So we look at all the parts, what.
(06:56):
You know, what are all the differentavenues and areas, I should say,
that are affecting why a patientis having difficulty or they're
bringing this to the table.
So again, culture is mentioned again.
We look at spirituality.
We look at avenues that might not be good.
Substance abuse.
Um, we look at pain.
How pain, you know, like, sopeople that are chronic pain, their
(07:20):
families seems kind of like, Hey,you know, come on, you can handle it.
One day they can another day they can't.
So all the different aspects of how wewould be challenged, um, as a therapist
and that we have to understand.
And, you know, that's a lifelong process.
Um, I always say, I, I only am as as theexperiences that I've had, you know, I
(07:41):
tell them if I had my choice go work ina large city, in a clinic or a hospital
and be involved with as many types ofpatients and types of diagnosis and ages
just explode and be like, you know, Wow.
There's 16 languages being spokenin this room, you know, so that
would be that really, it can bedifficult, but what, what a great
(08:03):
challenge and you'd learn so much.
So that is really, and so theylearn about that from each other.
Um, I get it's not, there's no recipebook for this, but we also give them the
two things are as a therapist, how doesthis area about substance abuse or even
suicide, what do you do in your role?
(08:23):
How do you say something to the patient?
You know, I've noticed recently,Kyle, that you seem extremely down.
You're usually able to just handleour session together, but som...
is something is going on?
And then they say something like, Yeah,I really, you know, I'm done with this.
And you're like, Okay, so then whatdo you say and then, so what are the
supports and then how do you refer andto our other mental health professionals
(08:48):
and what's available in the community?
I say your job also when you end upwherever you may be, you need to know
in that community all the resources.
So if you're a small clinic, you know youcan call 9 1 1, but who else is around?
Yeah, like the relationshipwith your physician.
Do they have a counselor?
Do they have, you know, all these things.
What's, what are yourresources in your library?
(09:10):
What are your resources in associationsthat maybe someone has multiple sclerosis?
Well, guess what?
They have this fantastic chatroom meets every Mondays.
And everyone just vents about, this isan awful diagnosis, you know, so that
is really your job to be an advocateand know where you kind of can't be
a counselor, but who can help you.
(09:34):
So, I think that's again, that is again,I'm going to say the problem solving part.
of being a physical therapist andyour brain is always thinking about,
Oh, I got to make sure, make sure.
Oh, you know what?
You, you'll be really greatwith some new orthopedic shoes
because you have diabetes.
You need this and you know, all youare the reference and referral source,
(09:56):
which is really, really an honor.
to be able to kind of help them in theseother areas of life, even finances, right?
Finances are huge.
We can't fix that boat.
Oh, do you know that there is thisassociation that maybe could get your
child a power wheelchair, you know,like there's, there's things out there.
(10:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And as you were speaking, I was alsoreminded of a slightly different topic,
but another thing that's really core toyou and your background and your teaching
is around ethics in working with patients.
Could you speak to that a little bit also?
So I always joke around that, youknow, how did I get involved in this?
(10:39):
This is usually one of those very drytopics, but, um, it's so important.
Yeah.
It doesn't necessarily alwaysmean I'm going to say doing
the right thing all the time.
It's actually just knowing, and this ishow, again, how I present it, that in
any situation, You have many options.
(11:00):
So my goal in the third yearis I'll give them a case.
I'll be like, okay, think of every singleoption that you could do in this case,
including the big one is do nothing.
Just not going to do anything.
I'm going to pretend I never heardthis and then you go through them.
So maybe you have ten, five of them.
There's no win win.
It doesn't make a change.
(11:22):
It's really kind of doesn't followthe legal, uh, you know, the
legality of your practice act.
So you cross those out.
Okay, now you're down to your five.
Okay, so which one wouldbe the most powerful?
Which one for you wouldbe the most powerful?
Difficult.
A lot of times it'sconfrontation of any kind.
Who, how could, who could you trustthat you could talk to about the
(11:42):
situation and could really keepconfidence and be able to guide you?
And I've had students send me an emailway after they're graduated, you know, Hi
Kyle, I'm not going to give you the nameof this person, but I have this scenario.
What do you think?
And I'd be like, you know what?
You are spot on.
Great idea.
This is a three step thing.
You're going to go firstwith your supervisor.
(12:03):
Then you're going to go together andtalk to the patient and then you're,
you know, so it's that kind of thing.
So it's, again, it's really communication,but in a larger scope and a little
bit more of pressure on them thatyou may be like, I don't want to
deal with this, but guess what?
You have to, because this is a big thing.
So we talk about fraud.
We talk about people not practicing, uh,you know, the practice act, which is a
(12:27):
little different in each state, kind ofhow, how, um, Physical therapy assistants
can work and aides and different, youknow, um, boundaries that they have.
So you have to be, and it's tough, um,some of these are easy to fix and some
are more that you say, you know what,this is not going to be fixed and I've
tried and I'm going to leave this job.
(12:50):
So that, you know, thatis kind of a big thing.
But, um, so I've kind of broken it down.
I mean, there's so manybeautiful books on ethics and
healthcare and working together.
So it's a good blend.
Um, some of my students are,they're like, Oh, they're able
to figure it out right away.
And they're kind of probably inthe back of the room like, Kyle,
really, we have to go over this.
(13:10):
And then all the students are like,I have no idea how to fix this.
So, you know, that's kind ofhow we, we do group discussions
and cases and things like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and I'm sure sometimes, you know,hearing about it and thinking that you
know how you might respond, um, you know,can be different in theory than when,
(13:31):
you know, you're out in the field andyou have, you know, various hierarchical
relationships and, um, yeah.
And your income is dependent on things,you know, it really changes, changes
things and how wonderful that they.
You know, have the opportunity tokind of break it down with you while
(13:52):
there's still students and then comingback to you as a resource afterward
and knowing that, um, you can givethem some continued mentorship.
I'm, I'm sure that that makes.
You're heartful to knowing that,yeah, that they can come to you
and do, um, that's very powerful.
(14:13):
Um, so I also wanted to talk a littlebit about, uh, some of the project-based
learning that happens as the studentsare moving through your program.
Um, could you talk aboutsome of the projects?
It seems like they have some that are ateach of the different, um, kind of years.
there.
(14:33):
Well, how is that kind ofdesigned and presented?
So I'll talk a little bit aboutthe template and just explain that.
So they, you know, as I said, theydo kind of that first year, uh,
welcome and all about themselves.
And then they have first, secondand third year and they get to
choose, um, the first year andthe second year, uh, two or three.
(14:55):
I think it's three classes thatthey really enjoyed and did some
kind of project like you mentioned.
So, um, you know, I, I always say tothem, by the time you graduate, after
three years, you'll have every typeof learning, uh, methodology, teaching
methodology to you, you know, there'sgroup work and there's presentations
and there's, um, going out to a clinic.
(15:15):
Uh, so we use our, um,veterans home right on campus.
And so you learn somethingin neurology, neurological.
Physical Therapy, but now youactually go and try it and connect
with one of our residents andChris, they have a great time.
And then you debrief and be like, Oh mygosh, I was, my hand was shaking as I was
trying to touch his arm or something, youknow, and you don't realize, you know,
(15:38):
all those things, how nervous you are.
So I, we also have a patient simulation,um, So you have to go in, and you don't
know what's going to happen, and you'rein a, you're being watched by your
classmates in another room, and it'sreally, you know, you have your, you have
your laptop, and everyone's listening,and you know, so, and, and it's usually,
(15:58):
so there's There's just so many greatthings now in education to, to look
at it from different ways, you know.
So the projects, we have a kinesiologyproject, they have to, they're given
an area of the body, the hip joint, orsomething that's interesting to them.
And they have to create a projectactually out of wood or plastic or
(16:18):
something to actually demonstrate.
And then we have a fair and theystand in front of their object.
And then they have to explain to ushow they use pipe cleaners Or they use
pulleys or whatever it may be, a PlayDoh, or to make a point of how this
joint works and, you know, the mechanism.
So, so they've taken picturesof that and sometimes they've
(16:39):
written a little bit about that.
Um, I actually have my curriculummap here, so let me take a quick
look if there's anything else.
Um, Yeah, I love thatthat's actually shown also.
So people have the opportunity to reallygo in and see the entire curriculum.
Yeah, and then they learn a lotabout physical therapy by just
looking at the different topics.
Wow.
(16:59):
You know, the each clinic, uh,clinical experience, they do
have to do a presentation sothey can put that in service up.
And I always say that, listen,you know, you already did
something in one of these classes.
You can, Take that wonderfulpresentation and use it as in services.
You kind of get a twofer out of that.
So, um, we also have, um, patients comein to our, um, you know, to our university
(17:24):
as an example, uh, share their stories.
Um, also in neurological physical therapy,someone that might be, uh, have a spinal
cord injury might share how, again, theirkind of grieving cycle and kind of how
they found their place and, if it washard to find work they wanted to do and
then they did and or whatever it maybe that, again, that share their road.
(17:45):
I mean, pediatrics, same thing.
Our teacher brings, um, some of, she'shad some of these, uh, children since
they were babies all the way now.
She knows them in their teenage years andthey're growing up so she'll have that.
Come in and share.
So we have baby day in the summer, uh,where all the babies come in because
we're learning normal development.
(18:06):
So anyone from zero to three,these kids are, you know,
they try look at the reflexes.
So the more you can kind of integrate, uh,You know, like lectures and PowerPoints
that you have to memorize and understandand make it become, you know, come alive.
And again, that's used.
But that is a typical thing inmany physical therapy programs,
(18:26):
all different ways of interacting.
And then now, you know, the buzzwordis interprofessional practice.
So we've been doing that with.
Occupational Therapy andPhysician's Assistant.
Our school has a largeevent now every spring.
Uh, last year was on ethics and we'vedone one, I think, on communication.
So, I don't know what the topic is thisyear, but, uh, you know, how can we all
(18:50):
add our piece to it if we're a respiratorytherapist or we're, you know, uh, Applied
Health Informatics, whatever we may face.
Yeah.
Uh, let me see, I'll look at one morething and give you another example.
Um, yeah, um, in health and wellness,which is in their third year, they
actually do a project on, I thinkit's over an eight week period.
(19:13):
They have someone in their life that mighthave want to do something to get well.
It could be anything, smoking.
It could be trying to gettheir cholesterol down.
So actually, um, The professor,uh, gave me, uh, sent me an
email about that recently.
It was one of the students sister is askier and wanted to get fit to go back
(19:36):
on the slopes, you know, and every year,you know, it's kind of like, Oh my gosh,
I didn't do, I didn't get in shape andthis is tough and I might injure myself.
So they put her on a eight weekexercise program and she sent
an email, she went to Colorado.
She sent an email to her sister.
You have no idea.
I am doing fantastic..
(19:57):
I feel limber and I feel strong.
So, so things like that.
So that's a health and wellness course.
And it's trying to just showthat it doesn't necessarily
always have to be an injury.
It could be a preventivetype of look at that.
You can have a PT practice that isall about prevention and, you know,
trying to avoid some of those things.
(20:18):
Things that, you know, you might havein your family or in your workplace.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yes.
Absolutely.
That's good.
You know, there's a lot,as I said, it's packed.
Definitely packed.
And you can see, yeah, you can seeit as you kind of go through it.
And I kind of think about it as kind ofunfolding the layers of, of their story
(20:40):
really, and, um, You know, right from thatwelcome page, you know, you often get to
get a little, you know, a little picture.
There's actual pictures, but youalso just get a little picture
of who the individual student is.
So, as you go through the variouspages, you have in mind that kind
(21:02):
of history and background and.
Passion for what they're doing and youcan, you can literally see that growth
just being kind of manifest as you'regoing through and viewing their work.
And you mentioned that there's, um,certain points, uh, in some of the
courses where the students do havethe opportunity to actually utilize
(21:28):
the technology in the classroom andsharing things with other peers.
Um, do they give feedback on each other'swork in those spaces or is it more of a
informal kind of sharing and storytellingand connection kind of building?
(21:48):
I'm curious how.
You know, what levels of kind ofassessment or review of the student
experiences may be happeningthroughout the program, too?
Yeah, so that's a great idea.
And it's kind of changedthrough the years.
It's usually has been more informal.
Um, sometimes we've had, uh, you know,we can, it's the first and the last
years, uh, kind of their beginningand, you know, pre and post of how
(22:11):
they gather everything together.
Those are part of my courses and it'sjust a percentage and they, it's.
This is what you need to do and thisis what you want to put into it.
And then we definitely have, youknow, take a look at each other's
and, and check, um, you know, see,see, again, learn about someone new.
And at the end I mentioned like,you know, someone that you, you, you
didn't know maybe about that person.
(22:32):
We've done it in the middleon the second year course.
We have done it in the past kindof like as, okay, you're adding
this to um, your second year.
Sometimes it's just been an email from me.
Hi guys, you're at the midpoint nowof, of our, um, you know, program.
Please update.
And then sometimes I've beenlike, oh, you just hold on to it,
but then you lay it at the end.
So it's been different, butI think that's a great point.
(22:53):
I think there is usually more of asurprise of like, Oh, I didn't know.
So that kind of thing.
Um, but yeah, I mean, it's,it's a very good suggestion.
Um, I usually, I do have, um, moreof a rubric of just kind of, you
know, uh, the, what did you includeand you were, you know, you were
meaningful or you went above and beyond.
(23:15):
And I do ask, um, usually about five orsix of students of the classes, look,
can I use your portfolio next year asexamples to show to the new students, you
know, what, uh, what, what you've done.
And, you know, some of them are justbecause you can change the banner and
this and that and the colors and, youknow, so, Um, I was trying to, I was
(23:35):
trying to go back to see when did Iactually switch from paper to ePortfolios
because I only have, I only have acertain amount of years on this computer.
Um, we started in, we, we always had alarge program, about 50 or 60 students
and in 2013 we split to two campuses, uh,close by within an hour and we have, uh,
so I'm out here in Southampton and thenwe have Stony Brook, our main campus.
(23:59):
So it's 50 and 35.
So I actually went back in andI remember that first class was
out here, which would have been2013 and they were 2016 graduates.
One of our students put a video of herdoing like aerial dancing with this
ribbon and I'm like, what is this?
(24:20):
So we've just laughedand you know, she is.
Super strong and she's areally just a great student.
So that was, I remember her.
So that was definitely 2013,you know, just a decade already.
Yeah.
Yeah.
These incredible experiences thatyour, your students have had.
And, um, it's wonderful that you'rekind of connecting with the students
(24:44):
before they graduate to kind ofsee who's, Ready to become an
exemplar for the incoming cohort.
And I'm sure as the, the program has kindof involved, and as you know, Digication
keeps evolving too, as we're workingwith different schools and, and learning
(25:04):
how, you know, different educatorsand students, and even alumni are kind
of putting it, putting it to work.
So it's been such a joy to have thisKind of long term partnership and
collaboration with, with Stony Brookso that we can all kind of celebrate
that, that evolution together.
It's, it's always so much fun tosee what the students are doing
(25:27):
and it's very inspiring to us to,to see that and to also have the
opportunity to connect to educators.
Like you who are really providingthis incredible opportunity for your
students and giving them a space wherethey can really celebrate who they are
(25:49):
and everything that they're learning.
And, um, I was curiousif you've heard from any.
Students after graduation, if they'vebeen able to share it with any
audiences outside of the institution.
I know that some have opted to makethem public, but we don't often
hear, you know, what that, youknow, next step is when they public.
(26:11):
Yeah.
I actually don't.
I can't recall anyone now.
I know that, um, you know, whenpeople are kind of the hot area
for posting information aboutyourself is LinkedIn, of course.
So, um, sometimes, you know, the ideaof moving some material over, um, I
know that they, Can download the wholeportfolio and and take it with them.
(26:35):
We give them, I think it's an extra sixmonths after graduation to have access.
Um, you know, because then they, theywill not have their Stony Brook emails.
And most of them, as I said, if they,Decide to make it public or not.
And usually it's withinthe university initially.
Yeah.
No, it's okay.
Cause I, I had, sorry to say, Idon't have any specifics for that.
(26:56):
Yeah.
But I also, I wanted you to beaware too, that, um, Digication does
provide unlimited alumni access.
So if they did want to update theiraccount to be with their personal
credentials, if they lose accessto this, you know, that's great.
(27:16):
I didn't know that.
No, that would be great.
Okay.
Wonderful.
Yeah.
It's definitely something that theycan continue using after graduation.
We do have those options to download andof course they could get to individual.
files as well anytime.
Um, but yeah, we, we're very happyto continue hosting it for them.
There's some other programsthat take advantage of that too.
(27:39):
Okay.
That's good to know.
Great.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, I know we're getting close to theend of our time today, Kyle, and I just,
I just really, again, wanted to thank youso much for, for joining me to share your
experience, uh, again, over a decade now,uh, using this kind of technology with
(28:01):
your students and, um, so excited to beable to share what they have done and,
and their extraordinary stories as well.
Thank you so much.
My pleasure.
Absolutely.
Talk to you soon.
Okay.
Bye.
Welcome to DigicationScholars Conversations.
I'm your host, Kelly Driscoll.
In this episode, you'll hear part two ofmy conversation with Kyle Hewson, Vice
Chair and Clinical Associate Professorin the Doctorate in Physical Therapy
program at Stony Brook University.
More links and information about today'sconversation can be found on Digication's
(00:24):
Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
Full episodes of Digication ScholarsConversations can be found on
YouTube or your favorite podcast app.
You know, I feel like the role of physicaltherapist and healthcare is so different
than the kind of relationship that onehas with a doctor, for instance, where
(00:45):
you have a really kind of Define periodof time that you're with them and, and
sometimes physical therapist you maywork with for months or years and really
become your partner in rehabilitation.
And you spend a lot of time togetheroften, um, depending on the extent
(01:06):
of, um, rehabilitation needed.
And it really does become a morepersonal relationship, I think, because
you have that amount of time together.
And you're often having a lotof time together when you as the
patient are in pain and alreadyvulnerable because of that.
(01:27):
And they become, you know, yourcheerleader and your support person.
And as you mentioned, also your teacher,um, because they're trying to give you
the tools to be able to kind of takecare of yourself when you're not well.
Right there with them and educate youon why certain movements or exercises
(01:48):
or, um, even breathing techniques, youknow, are so important in your healing.
Um, and I was curious as the students arekind of going through the program, there
is Is this kind of storytelling somethingthat's encouraged with their patients?
Um, because I think it's something that wedon't often hear about with doctors, for
(02:11):
instance, you know, because of the limitedtime that you're with them, really.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think there's two parts to it.
I think that we want to get I thinkall the things you said are spot on.
I mean, the sense of we, we want toencourage, we want to know them more.
So we want to hear about their, wealways, we'd say that every patient,
(02:32):
a diagnosis can be very similar, buttheir role in life, they could be a
mother, they could have a job in thecity that they have to take, you know,
two subways and then go up three,four, five or four flights of stairs.
They could, um, they could have, uh,you know, they could be an athlete that
they're trying to get a scholarship.
And, you know, this islike, are you kidding me?
This happened to me.
(02:52):
So we, the injuries are all the same, butthe stories behind it and all the roles
are complex and how they handle theirinjury and where they are in this, you
know, so you have the Cycles of grief.
I say, Oh, you, we tend to get themat like the anger and depression time,
you know, so, and then how do you,cause it's a huge change in their life.
(03:14):
Um, so how they cope andwhat we, so definitely.
So a lot of times we can, Connect.
So this, as I mentioned, so it's kind ofwhere they're at, but then also what can
we do in our experience of what we'veseen, how other patients have coped?
Can we bring someone in thatmight've, Oh, you know what?
You know, this person, thisperson over there on the other
(03:36):
side of the gym, she was just inthe same spot as you a month ago.
I'm going to bring you two togetherand just talk a little bit.
So that's really important.
Um, and then, you know, you, younever say as a therapist, I know.
You, you can say, I've hada lot of patients that have
struggled with what you have.
(03:56):
Um, sometimes there's a cycle, likea person gets better really fast
and then they kind of hang out andtakes a while to get, and this is
the boring and the tedious part.
And then like, do I ever get sex?
And then, and it's also hard fora therapist to say, you know, I'm
not sure if you're ever gettingback to the baseline that you want.
(04:18):
Right, right.
You know, to that athlete or to that, youknow, the person that has a neurological
disorder or whatever, so, right.
I mean, yeah.
Yeah.
So they do learn, I think it's a littledifficult for them that all, they're
not gonna help everyone and they'rehelping them, but not what they think.
That everyone's not getting back to ahundred percent that they're, they're at.
This is what I explained to them,they're shifting a phase, they're now
(04:40):
at a different phase in their lifeand what, how you influence and they
never, they never forget you as atherapist at that time, that's for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So true.
And I also think, I'm sure for yourstudents, there's also conversations
about how the patient has to be abig, you know, they have to make
(05:02):
decisions about how they're goingto take care of themselves too.
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah.
I agree, yeah.
So, how do we motivate and how can we helpthem adhere and, you know, be successful.
Give all kinds of suggestions andhuman nature, of course, is a biggie.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Are they introduced to, um, some kind of,kind of psychology around that process?
(05:30):
So you mentioned that very often they'remeeting people at this kind of grieving
stage and may be depressed because, youknow, it's a big transition probably from
where they were to where they are now.
So what, what kind of, how isthat introduced in the curriculum?
So that's right up my alley too.
(05:50):
So of course, one of the requirementsof coming to the program and Stacia
wide is they have to take a psychologyclass of some kind in undergrad.
So that could be normal developmentor it could be abnormal or,
you know with child, whatever.
So that's Many of them actually canbe in any kind of bachelor's degree
when they come, they can be musicians,they can, so psychology is a great one
(06:13):
if they are doing that because theyknow they're going to work eventually
with people that are in crisis.
Um, so this, In the first, uh, summer thatI mentioned that class, we do one course
on, um, one class on communication anda little bit on culture and why culture,
you know, you may come across this way.
I'm a, I'm a loud person.
I'm a, I talk fast, high energy.
(06:35):
That could totally not work with someonewho is just Just, you know, from a
different culture or not understanding,I'm giving too many directions.
Right?
Yeah.
So we just talk generally about that.
And again, they're still new.
Um, we share different experiences.
In the second year, we have a classand it's just started, um, it's called
psychosocial aspects of disability.
Mm-Hmm.
. So we look at all the parts, what.
(06:56):
You know, what are all the differentavenues and areas, I should say,
that are affecting why a patientis having difficulty or they're
bringing this to the table.
So again, culture is mentioned again.
We look at spirituality.
We look at avenues that might not be good.
Substance abuse.
Um, we look at pain.
How pain, you know, like, sopeople that are chronic pain, their
(07:20):
families seems kind of like, Hey,you know, come on, you can handle it.
One day they can another day they can't.
So all the different aspects of how wewould be challenged, um, as a therapist
and that we have to understand.
And, you know, that's a lifelong process.
Um, I always say, I, I only am as as theexperiences that I've had, you know, I
(07:41):
tell them if I had my choice go work ina large city, in a clinic or a hospital
and be involved with as many types ofpatients and types of diagnosis and ages
just explode and be like, you know, Wow.
There's 16 languages being spokenin this room, you know, so that
would be that really, it can bedifficult, but what, what a great
(08:03):
challenge and you'd learn so much.
So that is really, and so theylearn about that from each other.
Um, I get it's not, there's no recipebook for this, but we also give them the
two things are as a therapist, how doesthis area about substance abuse or even
suicide, what do you do in your role?
(08:23):
How do you say something to the patient?
You know, I've noticed recently,Kyle, that you seem extremely down.
You're usually able to just handleour session together, but som...
is something is going on?
And then they say something like, Yeah,I really, you know, I'm done with this.
And you're like, Okay, so then whatdo you say and then, so what are the
supports and then how do you refer andto our other mental health professionals
(08:48):
and what's available in the community?
I say your job also when you end upwherever you may be, you need to know
in that community all the resources.
So if you're a small clinic, you know youcan call 9 1 1, but who else is around?
Yeah, like the relationshipwith your physician.
Do they have a counselor?
Do they have, you know, all these things.
What's, what are yourresources in your library?
(09:10):
What are your resources in associationsthat maybe someone has multiple sclerosis?
Well, guess what?
They have this fantastic chatroom meets every Mondays.
And everyone just vents about, this isan awful diagnosis, you know, so that
is really your job to be an advocateand know where you kind of can't be
a counselor, but who can help you.
(09:34):
So, I think that's again, that is again,I'm going to say the problem solving part.
of being a physical therapist andyour brain is always thinking about,
Oh, I got to make sure, make sure.
Oh, you know what?
You, you'll be really greatwith some new orthopedic shoes
because you have diabetes.
You need this and you know, all youare the reference and referral source,
(09:56):
which is really, really an honor.
to be able to kind of help them in theseother areas of life, even finances, right?
Finances are huge.
We can't fix that boat.
Oh, do you know that there is thisassociation that maybe could get your
child a power wheelchair, you know,like there's, there's things out there.
(10:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And as you were speaking, I was alsoreminded of a slightly different topic,
but another thing that's really core toyou and your background and your teaching
is around ethics in working with patients.
Could you speak to that a little bit also?
So I always joke around that, youknow, how did I get involved in this?
(10:39):
This is usually one of those very drytopics, but, um, it's so important.
Yeah.
It doesn't necessarily alwaysmean I'm going to say doing
the right thing all the time.
It's actually just knowing, and this ishow, again, how I present it, that in
any situation, You have many options.
(11:00):
So my goal in the third yearis I'll give them a case.
I'll be like, okay, think of every singleoption that you could do in this case,
including the big one is do nothing.
Just not going to do anything.
I'm going to pretend I never heardthis and then you go through them.
So maybe you have ten, five of them.
There's no win win.
It doesn't make a change.
(11:22):
It's really kind of doesn't followthe legal, uh, you know, the
legality of your practice act.
So you cross those out.
Okay, now you're down to your five.
Okay, so which one wouldbe the most powerful?
Which one for you wouldbe the most powerful?
Difficult.
A lot of times it'sconfrontation of any kind.
Who, how could, who could you trustthat you could talk to about the
(11:42):
situation and could really keepconfidence and be able to guide you?
And I've had students send me an emailway after they're graduated, you know, Hi
Kyle, I'm not going to give you the nameof this person, but I have this scenario.
What do you think?
And I'd be like, you know what?
You are spot on.
Great idea.
This is a three step thing.
You're going to go firstwith your supervisor.
(12:03):
Then you're going to go together andtalk to the patient and then you're,
you know, so it's that kind of thing.
So it's, again, it's really communication,but in a larger scope and a little
bit more of pressure on them thatyou may be like, I don't want to
deal with this, but guess what?
You have to, because this is a big thing.
So we talk about fraud.
We talk about people not practicing, uh,you know, the practice act, which is a
(12:27):
little different in each state, kind ofhow, how, um, Physical therapy assistants
can work and aides and different, youknow, um, boundaries that they have.
So you have to be, and it's tough, um,some of these are easy to fix and some
are more that you say, you know what,this is not going to be fixed and I've
tried and I'm going to leave this job.
(12:50):
So that, you know, thatis kind of a big thing.
But, um, so I've kind of broken it down.
I mean, there's so manybeautiful books on ethics and
healthcare and working together.
So it's a good blend.
Um, some of my students are,they're like, Oh, they're able
to figure it out right away.
And they're kind of probably inthe back of the room like, Kyle,
really, we have to go over this.
(13:10):
And then all the students are like,I have no idea how to fix this.
So, you know, that's kind ofhow we, we do group discussions
and cases and things like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and I'm sure sometimes, you know,hearing about it and thinking that you
know how you might respond, um, you know,can be different in theory than when,
(13:31):
you know, you're out in the field andyou have, you know, various hierarchical
relationships and, um, yeah.
And your income is dependent on things,you know, it really changes, changes
things and how wonderful that they.
You know, have the opportunity tokind of break it down with you while
(13:52):
there's still students and then comingback to you as a resource afterward
and knowing that, um, you can givethem some continued mentorship.
I'm, I'm sure that that makes.
You're heartful to knowing that,yeah, that they can come to you
and do, um, that's very powerful.
(14:13):
Um, so I also wanted to talk a littlebit about, uh, some of the project-based
learning that happens as the studentsare moving through your program.
Um, could you talk aboutsome of the projects?
It seems like they have some that are ateach of the different, um, kind of years.
there.
(14:33):
Well, how is that kind ofdesigned and presented?
So I'll talk a little bit aboutthe template and just explain that.
So they, you know, as I said, theydo kind of that first year, uh,
welcome and all about themselves.
And then they have first, secondand third year and they get to
choose, um, the first year andthe second year, uh, two or three.
(14:55):
I think it's three classes thatthey really enjoyed and did some
kind of project like you mentioned.
So, um, you know, I, I always say tothem, by the time you graduate, after
three years, you'll have every typeof learning, uh, methodology, teaching
methodology to you, you know, there'sgroup work and there's presentations
and there's, um, going out to a clinic.
(15:15):
Uh, so we use our, um,veterans home right on campus.
And so you learn somethingin neurology, neurological.
Physical Therapy, but now youactually go and try it and connect
with one of our residents andChris, they have a great time.
And then you debrief and be like, Oh mygosh, I was, my hand was shaking as I was
trying to touch his arm or something, youknow, and you don't realize, you know,
(15:38):
all those things, how nervous you are.
So I, we also have a patient simulation,um, So you have to go in, and you don't
know what's going to happen, and you'rein a, you're being watched by your
classmates in another room, and it'sreally, you know, you have your, you have
your laptop, and everyone's listening,and you know, so, and, and it's usually,
(15:58):
so there's There's just so many greatthings now in education to, to look
at it from different ways, you know.
So the projects, we have a kinesiologyproject, they have to, they're given
an area of the body, the hip joint, orsomething that's interesting to them.
And they have to create a projectactually out of wood or plastic or
(16:18):
something to actually demonstrate.
And then we have a fair and theystand in front of their object.
And then they have to explain to ushow they use pipe cleaners Or they use
pulleys or whatever it may be, a PlayDoh, or to make a point of how this
joint works and, you know, the mechanism.
So, so they've taken picturesof that and sometimes they've
(16:39):
written a little bit about that.
Um, I actually have my curriculummap here, so let me take a quick
look if there's anything else.
Um, Yeah, I love thatthat's actually shown also.
So people have the opportunity to reallygo in and see the entire curriculum.
Yeah, and then they learn a lotabout physical therapy by just
looking at the different topics.
Wow.
(16:59):
You know, the each clinic, uh,clinical experience, they do
have to do a presentation sothey can put that in service up.
And I always say that, listen,you know, you already did
something in one of these classes.
You can, Take that wonderfulpresentation and use it as in services.
You kind of get a twofer out of that.
So, um, we also have, um, patients comein to our, um, you know, to our university
(17:24):
as an example, uh, share their stories.
Um, also in neurological physical therapy,someone that might be, uh, have a spinal
cord injury might share how, again, theirkind of grieving cycle and kind of how
they found their place and, if it washard to find work they wanted to do and
then they did and or whatever it maybe that, again, that share their road.
(17:45):
I mean, pediatrics, same thing.
Our teacher brings, um, some of, she'shad some of these, uh, children since
they were babies all the way now.
She knows them in their teenage years andthey're growing up so she'll have that.
Come in and share.
So we have baby day in the summer, uh,where all the babies come in because
we're learning normal development.
(18:06):
So anyone from zero to three,these kids are, you know,
they try look at the reflexes.
So the more you can kind of integrate, uh,You know, like lectures and PowerPoints
that you have to memorize and understandand make it become, you know, come alive.
And again, that's used.
But that is a typical thing inmany physical therapy programs,
(18:26):
all different ways of interacting.
And then now, you know, the buzzwordis interprofessional practice.
So we've been doing that with.
Occupational Therapy andPhysician's Assistant.
Our school has a largeevent now every spring.
Uh, last year was on ethics and we'vedone one, I think, on communication.
So, I don't know what the topic is thisyear, but, uh, you know, how can we all
(18:50):
add our piece to it if we're a respiratorytherapist or we're, you know, uh, Applied
Health Informatics, whatever we may face.
Yeah.
Uh, let me see, I'll look at one morething and give you another example.
Um, yeah, um, in health and wellness,which is in their third year, they
actually do a project on, I thinkit's over an eight week period.
(19:13):
They have someone in their life that mighthave want to do something to get well.
It could be anything, smoking.
It could be trying to gettheir cholesterol down.
So actually, um, The professor,uh, gave me, uh, sent me an
email about that recently.
It was one of the students sister is askier and wanted to get fit to go back
(19:36):
on the slopes, you know, and every year,you know, it's kind of like, Oh my gosh,
I didn't do, I didn't get in shape andthis is tough and I might injure myself.
So they put her on a eight weekexercise program and she sent
an email, she went to Colorado.
She sent an email to her sister.
You have no idea.
I am doing fantastic..
(19:57):
I feel limber and I feel strong.
So, so things like that.
So that's a health and wellness course.
And it's trying to just showthat it doesn't necessarily
always have to be an injury.
It could be a preventivetype of look at that.
You can have a PT practice that isall about prevention and, you know,
trying to avoid some of those things.
(20:18):
Things that, you know, you might havein your family or in your workplace.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yes.
Absolutely.
That's good.
You know, there's a lot,as I said, it's packed.
Definitely packed.
And you can see, yeah, you can seeit as you kind of go through it.
And I kind of think about it as kind ofunfolding the layers of, of their story
(20:40):
really, and, um, You know, right from thatwelcome page, you know, you often get to
get a little, you know, a little picture.
There's actual pictures, but youalso just get a little picture
of who the individual student is.
So, as you go through the variouspages, you have in mind that kind
(21:02):
of history and background and.
Passion for what they're doing and youcan, you can literally see that growth
just being kind of manifest as you'regoing through and viewing their work.
And you mentioned that there's, um,certain points, uh, in some of the
courses where the students do havethe opportunity to actually utilize
(21:28):
the technology in the classroom andsharing things with other peers.
Um, do they give feedback on each other'swork in those spaces or is it more of a
informal kind of sharing and storytellingand connection kind of building?
(21:48):
I'm curious how.
You know, what levels of kind ofassessment or review of the student
experiences may be happeningthroughout the program, too?
Yeah, so that's a great idea.
And it's kind of changedthrough the years.
It's usually has been more informal.
Um, sometimes we've had, uh, you know,we can, it's the first and the last
years, uh, kind of their beginningand, you know, pre and post of how
(22:11):
they gather everything together.
Those are part of my courses and it'sjust a percentage and they, it's.
This is what you need to do and thisis what you want to put into it.
And then we definitely have, youknow, take a look at each other's
and, and check, um, you know, see,see, again, learn about someone new.
And at the end I mentioned like,you know, someone that you, you, you
didn't know maybe about that person.
(22:32):
We've done it in the middleon the second year course.
We have done it in the past kindof like as, okay, you're adding
this to um, your second year.
Sometimes it's just been an email from me.
Hi guys, you're at the midpoint nowof, of our, um, you know, program.
Please update.
And then sometimes I've beenlike, oh, you just hold on to it,
but then you lay it at the end.
So it's been different, butI think that's a great point.
(22:53):
I think there is usually more of asurprise of like, Oh, I didn't know.
So that kind of thing.
Um, but yeah, I mean, it's,it's a very good suggestion.
Um, I usually, I do have, um, moreof a rubric of just kind of, you
know, uh, the, what did you includeand you were, you know, you were
meaningful or you went above and beyond.
(23:15):
And I do ask, um, usually about five orsix of students of the classes, look,
can I use your portfolio next year asexamples to show to the new students, you
know, what, uh, what, what you've done.
And, you know, some of them are justbecause you can change the banner and
this and that and the colors and, youknow, so, Um, I was trying to, I was
(23:35):
trying to go back to see when did Iactually switch from paper to ePortfolios
because I only have, I only have acertain amount of years on this computer.
Um, we started in, we, we always had alarge program, about 50 or 60 students
and in 2013 we split to two campuses, uh,close by within an hour and we have, uh,
so I'm out here in Southampton and thenwe have Stony Brook, our main campus.
(23:59):
So it's 50 and 35.
So I actually went back in andI remember that first class was
out here, which would have been2013 and they were 2016 graduates.
One of our students put a video of herdoing like aerial dancing with this
ribbon and I'm like, what is this?
(24:20):
So we've just laughedand you know, she is.
Super strong and she's areally just a great student.
So that was, I remember her.
So that was definitely 2013,you know, just a decade already.
Yeah.
Yeah.
These incredible experiences thatyour, your students have had.
And, um, it's wonderful that you'rekind of connecting with the students
(24:44):
before they graduate to kind ofsee who's, Ready to become an
exemplar for the incoming cohort.
And I'm sure as the, the program has kindof involved, and as you know, Digication
keeps evolving too, as we're workingwith different schools and, and learning
(25:04):
how, you know, different educatorsand students, and even alumni are kind
of putting it, putting it to work.
So it's been such a joy to have thisKind of long term partnership and
collaboration with, with Stony Brookso that we can all kind of celebrate
that, that evolution together.
It's, it's always so much fun tosee what the students are doing
(25:27):
and it's very inspiring to us to,to see that and to also have the
opportunity to connect to educators.
Like you who are really providingthis incredible opportunity for your
students and giving them a space wherethey can really celebrate who they are
(25:49):
and everything that they're learning.
And, um, I was curiousif you've heard from any.
Students after graduation, if they'vebeen able to share it with any
audiences outside of the institution.
I know that some have opted to makethem public, but we don't often
hear, you know, what that, youknow, next step is when they public.
(26:11):
Yeah.
I actually don't.
I can't recall anyone now.
I know that, um, you know, whenpeople are kind of the hot area
for posting information aboutyourself is LinkedIn, of course.
So, um, sometimes, you know, the ideaof moving some material over, um, I
know that they, Can download the wholeportfolio and and take it with them.
(26:35):
We give them, I think it's an extra sixmonths after graduation to have access.
Um, you know, because then they, theywill not have their Stony Brook emails.
And most of them, as I said, if they,Decide to make it public or not.
And usually it's withinthe university initially.
Yeah.
No, it's okay.
Cause I, I had, sorry to say, Idon't have any specifics for that.
(26:56):
Yeah.
But I also, I wanted you to beaware too, that, um, Digication does
provide unlimited alumni access.
So if they did want to update theiraccount to be with their personal
credentials, if they lose accessto this, you know, that's great.
(27:16):
I didn't know that.
No, that would be great.
Okay.
Wonderful.
Yeah.
It's definitely something that theycan continue using after graduation.
We do have those options to download andof course they could get to individual.
files as well anytime.
Um, but yeah, we, we're very happyto continue hosting it for them.
There's some other programsthat take advantage of that too.
(27:39):
Okay.
That's good to know.
Great.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, I know we're getting close to theend of our time today, Kyle, and I just,
I just really, again, wanted to thank youso much for, for joining me to share your
experience, uh, again, over a decade now,uh, using this kind of technology with
(28:01):
your students and, um, so excited to beable to share what they have done and,
and their extraordinary stories as well.
Thank you so much.
My pleasure.
Absolutely.
Talk to you soon.
Okay.
Bye.
Popular Podcasts
1. Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
2. Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
3. Crime Junkie
If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people.