In this episode of Digication Scholars Conversations, host Jeff Yan interviews Sylvia Spears, Provost and Vice President for Lifelong Learning at College Unbound.
Sylvia reflects on her journey from a traditional second-grade classroom to a transformative career in higher education, advocating for an inclusive, community-based learning model.
She shares her experiences and thoughts on the limitations of traditional education systems and the innovative, student-centered approach at College Unbound.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Welcome to DigicationScholars Conversations.
I'm your host, Jeff Yan.
In this episode, you will hear partone of my conversation with Sylvia
Spears, Provost and Vice President forLifelong Learning at College Unbound.
More links and information about today'sconversation can be found on Digication's
Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
Full episodes of Digication ScholarsConversations can be found on
(00:24):
YouTube or your favorite podcast app.
Welcome to DigicationScholars Conversations.
I'm your host Jeff Yan.
My guest today is Sylvia Spears,Provost and Vice President for
Lifelong Learning at College Unbound.
Hello, Sylvia.
Good morning.
How are you?
Good, good.
I love your, I love your energy.
(00:46):
You know, um, first of all, Sylvia, I'vebeen such a big fan of College Unbound.
I think that you've, you've, I thinkyou know at this point because I, I
keep showing up to, to your eventsand to, to, to, to your campus and
then to all, to your locations.
Um, I, I, um, I want toshare really quickly.
(01:08):
To people, um, with, with listeners, uh,how I first met you in person, I don't,
you wouldn't, you may not remember this.
It was actually last fall ata, I think I met you before
online, but never in person.
Um, and last fall you werehosting a, um, um, a session at
(01:31):
an amazing, um, conference, um,called, um, Imagining America.
Um, And, uh, you hosted a session, um,and it was also early in the morning.
I think it was getting an 8 AM session.
And, um, and a lot of people were packingthis room and, uh, it was at a local,
(01:53):
it was located at a local high schooland, um, and it was, we were packed in
this room, sitting in this, you know,giant circle kind of, and, uh, you had.
Um, music playing.
It was John Batiste, Drink Water.
I, I, I remember every bit of this.
(02:13):
And I was sitting in one of thecorners and you were just dancing
in the middle of this room.
And we were all sort of waitingfor the session to start.
And, and it was just like, wow, she's,she's this super energetic lady.
And, and just, she, you know, It's justenjoying life and it was infectious.
(02:34):
And all of us were just starting tolike, man, we want to get up and dance.
And then you're like, get up and dance.
You can't stop it.
You have to move.
Your body wants to move, move.
And we all started getting upand dancing and it was 8am.
There was no coffee needed.
It was amazing.
And that was my.
Very first impression of you, Sylvia.
(02:56):
Wow.
That's amazing.
Um, thank you for, for just reflectingon that moment because it was fun.
And, um, you know, conferences canbe really meaningful and great.
And, you know, there's the transmissionof lots of interesting insights and ideas.
And at eight o'clock in the morning.
(03:19):
It's kind of a little bit of judgery toget to a conference session, and we all
know that you can walk into a conferencesession and it can be the driest, most
boring, almost painful experience,and if you're stuck in a room that's
crowded, you know you can't escape.
And so for me, how people come into aspace, is really important because it sets
(03:45):
the tone for the journey we're about togo on in any workshop or in a classroom.
Um, and so, I, I felt like dancing.
It seemed like it was a good day.
John Baptiste, that song, DrinkWater, is one of my favorite songs.
And, uh, it seemed likea good time to dance.
(04:05):
And, uh, I think it, Help people toboth be in their bodies and be ready
for whatever we were going to do,uh, together, uh, in a dynamic mode.
So, uh, thanks so much for, for justremembering that, uh, that moment.
Uh, well, I also want to thank youthat you also did, you know, and lift
(04:26):
up to the, to the, to the opening, allthe way through your session, because
you did not then spend, um, 20 minutestelling us about, you know, like a
really long bio of both you and yourinstitution, but we went straight into it.
And by the way, the conversation was abouthow can we reimagine higher education?
And I think it was really, Imean, it was really apt way for
(04:48):
us to think about it because.
And just so people know, you arethe provost at College Unbound.
Yes, indeed.
There are people who are listening tothis right now who might be, um, high
school students, who might be peoplewho, um, who are not familiar with,
you know, What the heck is a provost?
(05:09):
What's a provost at a college andtell us a little bit about what a
provost is and, and what is what iscollege unbound in your role there.
And then we'll, we'll start there.
And then we'd love to dig deeperinto how you come to be Sylvia.
Okay.
Um, perhaps I'll start with.
College Unbound because beingprovost at College Unbound could
(05:30):
be a little different than beingprovost at a traditional college.
And you're right.
Um, so College Unbound, uh, is indeedan accredited colleges for people who,
uh, for whom that's really important.
Um, it's a college that is young.
It's about 14 years old.
Um, Co founded by Dennis Litke, who isa high school educator, principal, and
(05:54):
the founder of a whole group of schools.
I think there's more than 150high schools in that network now.
And Adam Bush, who is an incredibleeducator, jazz historian, social justice
advocate, just a Wonderful human being.
(06:15):
So they founded a school, um, andover time it's involved into a school
specifically designed to, um, one,reinvent higher education so that it
actually meets the needs of all students.
Um, two, to ensure that there's accessto education, um, For students who are
(06:37):
typically marginalized from education, whoare on the edges of education, who have
had negative experiences in education.
And so, so much of our work isaround helping people fulfill
their dreams of obtaining a degree.
And not just for the purpose of gettinga degree, but a degree that allows
(06:58):
them to create change in their ownlives, change for their families,
and change for their communities.
So, it's this.
that functions in a way that's verydifferent from a traditional college.
We value student learning thathappens outside of the classroom.
We value the lived experience ofindividuals and communities and credit
(07:21):
that experience, uh, without a lot ofhoops, um, but with a sense of, um,
Reflection and quality around whatwas the nature of their experience
and the college is just grounded inan environment of deep relationship
with people and a community of care,a cohort based model, uh, projects.
(07:46):
That, um, students do over thecourse of their time at CU where they
develop projects, cultivate them, andmany of them implement afterwards.
So if I were to, um, think about how tocapture CU in a nutshell, I would say it's
a, a college committed to relationship.
(08:06):
Relevance of the curriculum to thestudents who go to school with us
and rigor that it's academically, um,challenging and meaningful to students.
At CU, the provost is, um,responsible for and facilitating and
supporting all of the life of thecollege that's related to learning.
(08:29):
So all of the things that are,what's the array of courses?
Who's teaching?
What does teaching look like?
Is it the kind of teaching where a facultymember walks into a room with old yellow
lined, um, pad of paper, you rememberthose professors who did that, and reads
the same notes semester after semester?
(08:53):
That's not CU.
At CU, education is dynamic, it'slots of discussion, uh, lots of, uh,
connecting theory to practice, to livedexperience, and so I have the, the
joy, the honor of working with facultyand staff and students to create a
robust learning environment in whichstudents can thrive rather than survive.
(09:19):
In my career, I've watched studentsat all kinds of institutions, public
institutions, private institutions,Ivy League institutions, come to
campus with all kinds of aspirations,and some can be highly successful.
And I've also watched some studentscome to those campuses, and actually
(09:42):
I watched the light go out of theireyes, and they either disappear, or
they graduate, but they graduate notbecause of what the college did for them.
They graduate in spite of the college.
And so I've spent my entire careerworking in traditional educational
(10:04):
spaces, trying to ensure that we cancreate an environment that creates less
harm and actually supports students.
And then I found CU.
For years, I was saying, I don'tknow if you can change institutions.
Can you change them from the inside out?
Or are you tinkering onthe edges of a college?
(10:26):
And even at my last institution, Isaid to my team, my staff, my kindreds,
I have to say, you know, we wouldsit in deep discussion sometimes
and think, You can't change them.
You can reduce harm, butyou can't change them.
And one of the folks on my team said,Sylvia, we have to build a college.
(10:48):
You have to start your own college.
And the good news is I didn'thave to start my own college
because Adam and Dennis hadalready started College Unbound.
And it is unbound.
That's not just a throwawaypart of our title.
It's embedded in everything we doto try to unbind it, to loosen it,
(11:09):
to make it an innovative space wherestudents can come in and really
be them best, their best selves.
They're the magic.
They're already talented.
They already have expertise.
I, I love this, Sylvia.
And I, I think everyone can hear thepassion that comes from just your voice.
You know, it's, it's, it's so awesome.
(11:31):
Um, there is something that you were,you know, you were talking about the
yellow line paper, you know, sort of,I think that there is a lot of people
who have, I would, I would say even the,you know, like many people considered,
(11:52):
you know, If you go to someone who'sbeen out of school for 20 years, maybe a
parent, the idea of education is about.
Acquiring more content.
It's a content acquisition exercise andthat the professor has a lot of content.
(12:12):
It's almost like they have a lot ofproducts that you need and they're
just gonna sell it to you and they'll,they'll, they'll, you're supposed
to just transfer that content toyour, from their head to your head
and then, and then you're educated.
And, and that seems to be in my mind,always have this almost like this, like
almost cartoonish, you know, like all thatthey want to do is to say, I have all this
(12:39):
content that someone transferred to meand now I'm going to transfer it to you.
And I, you just keeppassing it on as education.
But when I hear about howyou talk about education.
It's just not that at all.
It's actually about eachperson going out to live.
They go dance, they go enjoy themselves.
They go solve problems in the community.
(13:01):
They go and be friendswith another person.
They go and help another person.
They go in and, um, be the, be the,be the daughter or the son that they
should be for their, for their parents.
And by doing so, bythose lived experience.
Themselves, you learn and become, um,educated and that's a really different
(13:27):
model of thinking about education.
I'm by the way, clearly on your camp.
I think I too, I don't, I think I waslike fairly good at being a student.
I never enjoyed it.
I would say that I probably, I grew upin Hong Kong, um, when I was a kid and,
(13:48):
um, I, I felt like there was like a hugeamount of education trauma, you know,
just like, like you literally have to dothis or you, you literally get physically
beatings for not doing something.
Could be from your teacher, by the way.
Um, it's a, it's a, it's a,it's, it's crazy in my mind.
(14:09):
Right.
But it's all about like,they gave you the content.
Why don't you know it already?
Right.
And if you don't know it, maybe beatingyou will somehow get you to know it.
Now you know, right?
So it's completely, so like fromthat, like, you know, for me,
then I, I sort of learned to bea good enough student, right?
(14:29):
But that kind of educationnever really, in my mind, never
really benefited me very much.
It always feels like it's the kind ofthing where They're supposed to give you
all this content and somehow you knowhow to reflect on them and internalize
them and turn it into your own experienceand that's when you learn, but you just
(14:49):
go, well, why don't we just bypass that?
Why don't we just gostraight into the experience?
Right?
Yeah.
I think that sounds so lovely.
Yeah, and, and, you know, there'sall, everything we know, everything
educators know about learning.
And so we've got the people whostudy the brain, we've got people
who study cognition, we've got study,people who study the acquisition of
(15:12):
information, all of that research.
Tells us that that kind of education,that traditional model of education,
where we're depositing contentinto people's brain does not work.
It means, yeah, you canrecite that information back.
And then, maaan!, you know, aday or two after you took that
(15:36):
quiz or did that test, it's gone.
It's not yours.
It was a temporary visitor thatcame and went, and if it's not
relevant to you, you let it go.
Um, one of the most powerful readingsfor me when I was, um, uh, in my own
educational journey was reading PauloFreire's Pedagogy of the Oppressed.
(15:56):
And, uh, I think it's in the firstchapter, Frere talks about the, the
banking method of education and reallyjust, um, dismantles the notion that
that kind of education actually isuseful, meaningful, has long term, um,
(16:19):
you know, value and talked about howimportant it is to be with students
in community and unveil reality.
People's lived reality in the contextof new material, new ideas, and that's
something people construct together.
Um, and, and so for me, it's justthe space of College Unbound is
(16:45):
exactly the opposite of that.
Um, we don't even like to use wordslike teachers and instructors.
Um, you know, our accrediting agenciesthink that's important, but we're,
We think about facilitators, andconveners, and supporters, and guides,
and how we can create a learningenvironment that's co created together
(17:10):
in community with students and teachers.
And it's out of that kind of relationship,that space, that learning occurs.
Not just learning for students,It's reciprocal in that it's
learning for instructors, um,and folks who are teaching.
Um, and those moments that happen togetherin a class or in a cohort or in community
(17:33):
time breaking bread together, um, aredistinct and magic all of their own.
And then you just, just watch them grow.
Uh, and so it's reallyquite, uh, quite beautiful.
It is how education should always be.
No matter the age of the student, fromlittle people to folks who might be in
(17:53):
their 60s and 70s going back to college.
I love that Sylvia.
Sylvia, I, I think that we will definitelycircle back to some of the magical parts
of College Unbound, but first I wantedto maybe go Deeper into your own history.
Sure.
Because I'm just fascinatedhow, how does Sylvia come to be?
(18:17):
Where, where did you grow up?
What is the journey thatleads you to this point?
I mean, you, like you said, you were inmany different kinds of institutions.
So for people that just think, well, youknow, this, Very like, um, you know, this
really just this person just out theretalking about reinventing education.
(18:37):
She, she may or may not knowwhat education is supposed to be.
You know, I think that's not true.
You've been through a lotof different models as well.
I think it's.
Through that perspective thatyou can find these models that
you can really make comparison.
So why don't you tell us, give usa little insights to, to, you know,
your, your upbringing and what,what made you the way you are?
(18:59):
Yeah.
Wow.
I think my, uh, my kids probablywould have an interesting insight
on that, uh, or, you know,uh, my parents rest in peace.
Um, but, uh, I grew up, um.
In Rhode Island, by the ocean, uh, I, uh,love the environment of being near water.
Um, for me, it's just,um, helps me to breathe.
(19:22):
As a matter of fact, alreadythis morning, I did a 45 minute
walk, uh, By the, by the ocean.
And so there's something about the oceanthat, um, even growing up reminds me of
the vastness of the world that I can't,you know, I just look to the horizon.
So there's something groundingabout that, which always has me
(19:43):
as a, as kind of a disparate.
of my personality, lookingout, looking far, looking past
what is, to what might be.
Um, and so I grew up in this area,went to, you know, your local public
school here in town, and early, like insecond grade, had a really interesting
experience here that I, now reflect onas having shaped a lot of my experiences
(20:09):
in education and why I ended up ineducation, to be perfectly honest.
Um, I was painfully shy as a littlekid, like really, really shy.
Um, you know, visitors would come to seemy parents and I'd run upstairs and sit
at the top of the stairs and just listen.
You know, I wouldn't come downstairs.
I don't want to see them.
Um, so I was painfully shy.
(20:31):
And in school, I was really shy, andso I was quiet, um, and my mother was
called to a parent teacher meeting,and if you can imagine back in the day,
those meetings were really kind of anexercise of power, uh, for some teachers,
um, where they made parents feel small.
(20:54):
And my mother might have been five feettall, but she was not small in, in,
uh, Kind of personality and stature.
Um, she was a mighty tiny woman.
Anyhow, this particular teachersaid something like, um, Sylvia
is very smart, but she's lazy.
And I remember sitting out, I wassitting in a tiny chair outside of that
(21:18):
door to that classroom and I heard it.
And even though, you know, you're alittle kid at, you know, in the second
grade, I remember the feeling of hurt.
I, I, I wasn't lazy.
I was Paralyzed with fear becausethe environment was so uncomfortable.
My mother, of course, alsotaught me about advocacy.
(21:41):
She left that meeting, took my hand,went straight down to the principal's
office, explained that interactionand talked about no to Teacher should
ever think any child is lazy and,um, I was immediately removed from
that class, put in a different class.
The environment was supportive andwarm and friendly and, and I was
(22:07):
happy, did great and apparentlyI wasn't late, late, lazy.
Um, the interesting thing is.
Decades later, when I went back toget my doctorate, uh, in education, in
my, uh, dissertation, uh, introductionor, or acknowledgement page, there's
(22:29):
a long acknowledgement page where Iacknowledge my parents for, you know,
teaching me the value of education.
I acknowledge my kids for demonstratingall of the excitement of learning.
I acknowledge that teacher.
Not in a warm and fuzzy way, but ina way where there was a line that
(22:50):
said, Do you think I'm lazy now?
And so as a learner, I, in mostsituations, whether it was the
Catholic high school that I wentto, or the public institution that
I got my bachelor's at, um, I, I'ma kind of, um, Voracious learner.
(23:11):
I love to read.
I love to be in community withpeople and learn new things.
So the pivot for me to, tohigher ed actually occurred
after I graduated from college.
I was out in the world working,um, believe it or not, working at,
uh, health and fitness centers.
(23:35):
Don't ask me, that'sthe job I got, you know.
So, working at health and fitness centersfor a long time and managing them.
And, um, I came back to Rhode Island, um,when my daughter was about 3 years old.
And, because it's important to be nearyour family and your grandparents.
And started to work, um,for a tribal community here,
(23:57):
which is part of my heritage.
As, um, uh, I think I wasPersonnel Director and then went
on to be Tribal Administrator.
One day I was looking at somedata about the educational levels
of, of people in the tribe.
And I discovered, um, that, Thepercentage of people who had
(24:19):
attended college, not just graduated,attended, was so incredibly low it
almost couldn't be represented bya, by a number, by a percentage.
It was, uh, on the chart I was lookingat, it was less than one percent.
We're in a tiny little state with like 13colleges and one that is actually sitting
(24:43):
in the midst of, you know, uh, nativeland that belongs to the folks here.
Or historically would have.
And then I started to dig more andI started to look at national data.
Less than four tenths of a percentof, um, native folks in the country
at that time had bachelor's degrees.
(25:04):
And I was like, this is outrageous.
What is happening?
And that day I decided to go to back toschool, um, to get my master's degree
so that I could be kind of, uh, Arunner, an intermediary between higher
ed spaces and, um, communities of color.
(25:26):
A translator, um, because so oftenfolks would say, I'm not going to
college, why would I go to college?
There's nothing for me there.
Um, or even my, my, um, master's research,the findings of the study that I did
was that, um, Native American studentsfelt like they were making a choice.
(25:49):
Between being a, uh, a goodstudent or a good Indian.
That's literally what thestudents would say to me.
And so, for them, college was not feelinglike a place that valued their culture,
the way of, um, gaining knowledge, uh,And so that set me on a whole career
(26:10):
of working in multicultural studentservices, working on pluralism efforts,
um, teaching, um, but teaching inhuman development with an emphasis on
equity and, uh, and justice, um, allof the roles I've ever had, whether
they Faculty roles or administrativeroles have always been about how do
(26:32):
we create a more humane, inclusivespace of education for all learners.
And so that's a, that's a, youknow, about 30 years of, of, of work
for me has been focused on that.
I don't know how to do anything elseexcept shape change in higher ed.
(26:53):
What was it like to be doing that?
In and I, I believe that you were atone point at Dartmouth, for example.
Am I right?
Yeah.
Um, when was that?
Yeah.
Let's see.
2007 to 2012.
(27:14):
So five years I was there.
And what was your role there?
I, I.
The role I went into when I startedwas, um, Associate Dean of Student
Life and Director of the Officeof Pluralism and Leadership.
So, embedded in Student Affairs, doing alot of, um, uh, work in their framework to
(27:38):
support BIPOC folks, um, but to create arobust campus environment around students.
Issues of equity, the Native Americanprogram reported to me, Center
for Women and Gender reported tome, some advisors for different
affinity groups, uh, reported to me.
So that's, that's how I started there.
(27:59):
And then very quickly was askedto be Senior Associate Dean of the
College, which had more responsibilityfor working with academic affairs.
And then I The last role was InterimDean of the College, which was kind
of a major, um, a major role witha team of about 500 staff or so.
(28:20):
It was a fascinating environment, Jeff.
Yeah, how, how is, I mean, I, thisis why I, I think it's so amazing.
You know, you had, you know, you had ahuge staff, you had huge responsibility
at an Ivy League institution.
Um, It's a, it's a dream jobfor many educators, um, but
(28:48):
you're shaking your head.
Maybe, maybe it wasn't for you.
Why, why is that?
Uh, it's a really complex space.
It is a place that has incrediblestudents from all over the world.
Deeply talented, some really cynical,
(29:11):
it's also a place where power andprivilege is not just something you have
to contend with, but it's perpetuated.
and It can be an environment thatfor anyone who is not, uh, attuned
(29:33):
to kind of spaces where that kindof activity is cultivated, rewarded,
you're like a fish out of water.
And the interesting thing is when I tookthe first job there, The, the president
of another college, uh, was a colleagueof mine and a friend of mine and he said,
(29:54):
Sylvia, are you sure you want to go there?
You're going into the belly of the beastand I said that's where people like me
need to go so we can create change andI do think I created a lot of change.
Um, I do think students and staff andfaculty who felt like they were on
(30:15):
the margins were positively affectedby some of the work we did together.
And it took a huge toll on me.
And so, it was so interestingthat I was interim or acting dean
of the college for two years.
(30:36):
And that was by contract.
I said, you know, I can't get anythingdone if I'm there for a year, so
I need to get some stuff done.
And Um, was invited to apply for theposition formally and decided not to,
and the students could not understandit, like, because it is the dream job.
(30:59):
If you have a certain inclination,students were just like, Crazy, they
started petitions and, you know,hundreds of students were, you know,
signing petitions in electronic,and I was like, what is happening?
And the school newspaper wascalling me for an interview, Sylvia,
what do you mean you're, you'renot going to apply for the job?
(31:20):
They were just Shocked, absolutelyshocked because they couldn't understand
why somebody wouldn't want it.
And for me, the title wasn't what madethe job, uh, interesting or important.
It was my ability to shape change.
And if I'm somewhere where I can'tshape change, and change is needed,
(31:44):
I will give as much as I can.
And then, um, when I see, okay,I've pushed the institution
as far as it can possibly be.
Go it's time for somebodyelse to come and shape change.
And so, um, I still have so manyrelationships with students who
are now married with kids and, um,successful in their, in their fields
(32:07):
and so many faculty and staff.
Um, and so it was a.
Uh, probably the, a time of my greatestprofessional growth was in that role.
Really powerful.
Um, yeah.
Really powerful.
I think it's amazing to sort of contrast,like you were saying, the, the, the
(32:31):
types of students, the expectation,the privilege, the, the, the, um,
the, even the path that they, theymust have taken in order to get into.
To get admitted into aschool like Dartmouth.
It's not easy.
It's a path that takes manyyears to shape and you kind
of have to walk a certain way.
You have to, you know,especially these days, right?
(32:54):
I mean, like, I think you reallyhave to, you have to have that, that
much prove in your co curricularwork as well as your academic
work and, and all of these things.
And you have to, you haveto play the game perfectly.
Right, in order to, to get in.
Yeah.
Um, and, and like you said, youknow, some students, you know,
(33:21):
would find that they don't belongbecause they just, they just can't.
It's not a, you know, if the game isn'twhat it's about, then it doesn't belong.
That's right.
Then you don't belong.
And contrasting to your currentstudent body at College Unbound, I
(33:41):
think that's what's so amazing to see.
I can see why you, you are, you arelike, thriving at College Unbound
because these are your people.
Yeah, that's it.
That's exactly it.
That is exactly it.
Um, before I, um, took thejob at College Unbound, I went
(34:02):
to visit, um, a cohort night.
So an evening when all of the studentsare gathering, they, the college provides
dinner because so many people arecoming from work or they just picked
up their kids and dropped the kids off.
And, and so there's always a half anhour or so where we're in community.
Having a meal together, uh, so it canbe, you know, groups of 70 students on
(34:24):
any given night, um, eating before theygo into class, and I remember going
to visit and just looking around theroom and was like, Oh, my goodness.
Look at the beauty in this room.
And these are the students who wouldhave never had access to a Dartmouth.
(34:44):
And yet they are the people whowill also make change in the world.
So smart, so talented, socommitted to one another.
You know, when they make their waythrough College Unbound, I really
believe it is the power of relationshipsthat they have with one another.
That, that supports them throughthe college, of course, does
(35:08):
what it's supposed to do.
But I think the glue is that relationship.
Um, and that's very differentthan the experience of someone
who is third generation.
Ivy League student versus, um, some ofthe students I saw at, um, Dartmouth who
were first generation college students,who, brilliant, but didn't have the
(35:31):
cultural capital to navigate that space.
Um, I'll share just one.
story about the kind of pressureand then why we do the opposite.
There was a, a student that I don'tthink I'll ever forget, um, who was a
first generation college student, youngwhite guy, um, from kind of a rural
(35:54):
area, struggling parents, was thereon scholarship, um, And he worked at,
um, like a, about five miles away ata local Burger King and would try to
schedule his hours so that the hourswere not when Dartmouth students were
out cruising around going to Burger King.
(36:18):
He shopped at the local thrift storefor his clothes because there he could
get the throwaway designer clothes.
Um, that students and faculty had,um, dropped in the thrift store so
that he could be wearing the designerlabels that the other folks in his,
(36:38):
uh, fraternity were wearing so theywouldn't know that he was struggling.
Imagine the amount of work it wastaking for that student to put on
the persona of somebody who fits in.
Whereas at College Unbound,
we don't even, we're not eventhinking about that stuff.
(37:01):
It's a come as you are, be whoyou are, because who you are
is, is what is valued there.
And so students, you know, comefrom all kinds of backgrounds,
first generation college students.
There's the average ageof students is 36, 37.
(37:22):
Some have college creditsbefore, some have no credits.
And what they're doing there is.
Actually unlearning what educationis, and learning what education can
be, and re Orient them, orientingthemselves to themselves as a learner,
(37:46):
and that they've always been alearner, despite any negative messages
that they were giving earlier intheir, in their time in education.
So it's a vibrant, lively, spaciousplace, and they are my people.
They really are.
It's fantastic.
Here's a preview of what's coming upnext in part two of my conversation with
(38:09):
Sylvia Spears, Provost and Vice Presidentfor Lifelong Learning at College Unbound.
Look at the beauty in this room andthese are the students who would
have never had access to a Dartmouth,and yet they are the people who
will also make change in the world.
So smart, so talented, socommitted to one another.
Welcome to DigicationScholars Conversations.
I'm your host, Jeff Yan.
In this episode, you will hear partone of my conversation with Sylvia
Spears, Provost and Vice President forLifelong Learning at College Unbound.
More links and information about today'sconversation can be found on Digication's
Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
Full episodes of Digication ScholarsConversations can be found on
(00:24):
YouTube or your favorite podcast app.
Welcome to DigicationScholars Conversations.
I'm your host Jeff Yan.
My guest today is Sylvia Spears,Provost and Vice President for
Lifelong Learning at College Unbound.
Hello, Sylvia.
Good morning.
How are you?
Good, good.
I love your, I love your energy.
(00:46):
You know, um, first of all, Sylvia, I'vebeen such a big fan of College Unbound.
I think that you've, you've, I thinkyou know at this point because I, I
keep showing up to, to your eventsand to, to, to, to your campus and
then to all, to your locations.
Um, I, I, um, I want toshare really quickly.
(01:08):
To people, um, with, with listeners, uh,how I first met you in person, I don't,
you wouldn't, you may not remember this.
It was actually last fall ata, I think I met you before
online, but never in person.
Um, and last fall you werehosting a, um, um, a session at
(01:31):
an amazing, um, conference, um,called, um, Imagining America.
Um, And, uh, you hosted a session, um,and it was also early in the morning.
I think it was getting an 8 AM session.
And, um, and a lot of people were packingthis room and, uh, it was at a local,
(01:53):
it was located at a local high schooland, um, and it was, we were packed in
this room, sitting in this, you know,giant circle kind of, and, uh, you had.
Um, music playing.
It was John Batiste, Drink Water.
I, I, I remember every bit of this.
(02:13):
And I was sitting in one of thecorners and you were just dancing
in the middle of this room.
And we were all sort of waitingfor the session to start.
And, and it was just like, wow, she's,she's this super energetic lady.
And, and just, she, you know, It's justenjoying life and it was infectious.
(02:34):
And all of us were just starting tolike, man, we want to get up and dance.
And then you're like, get up and dance.
You can't stop it.
You have to move.
Your body wants to move, move.
And we all started getting upand dancing and it was 8am.
There was no coffee needed.
It was amazing.
And that was my.
Very first impression of you, Sylvia.
(02:56):
Wow.
That's amazing.
Um, thank you for, for just reflectingon that moment because it was fun.
And, um, you know, conferences canbe really meaningful and great.
And, you know, there's the transmissionof lots of interesting insights and ideas.
And at eight o'clock in the morning.
(03:19):
It's kind of a little bit of judgery toget to a conference session, and we all
know that you can walk into a conferencesession and it can be the driest, most
boring, almost painful experience,and if you're stuck in a room that's
crowded, you know you can't escape.
And so for me, how people come into aspace, is really important because it sets
(03:45):
the tone for the journey we're about togo on in any workshop or in a classroom.
Um, and so, I, I felt like dancing.
It seemed like it was a good day.
John Baptiste, that song, DrinkWater, is one of my favorite songs.
And, uh, it seemed likea good time to dance.
(04:05):
And, uh, I think it, Help people toboth be in their bodies and be ready
for whatever we were going to do,uh, together, uh, in a dynamic mode.
So, uh, thanks so much for, for justremembering that, uh, that moment.
Uh, well, I also want to thank youthat you also did, you know, and lift
(04:26):
up to the, to the, to the opening, allthe way through your session, because
you did not then spend, um, 20 minutestelling us about, you know, like a
really long bio of both you and yourinstitution, but we went straight into it.
And by the way, the conversation was abouthow can we reimagine higher education?
And I think it was really, Imean, it was really apt way for
(04:48):
us to think about it because.
And just so people know, you arethe provost at College Unbound.
Yes, indeed.
There are people who are listening tothis right now who might be, um, high
school students, who might be peoplewho, um, who are not familiar with,
you know, What the heck is a provost?
(05:09):
What's a provost at a college andtell us a little bit about what a
provost is and, and what is what iscollege unbound in your role there.
And then we'll, we'll start there.
And then we'd love to dig deeperinto how you come to be Sylvia.
Okay.
Um, perhaps I'll start with.
College Unbound because beingprovost at College Unbound could
(05:30):
be a little different than beingprovost at a traditional college.
And you're right.
Um, so College Unbound, uh, is indeedan accredited colleges for people who,
uh, for whom that's really important.
Um, it's a college that is young.
It's about 14 years old.
Um, Co founded by Dennis Litke, who isa high school educator, principal, and
(05:54):
the founder of a whole group of schools.
I think there's more than 150high schools in that network now.
And Adam Bush, who is an incredibleeducator, jazz historian, social justice
advocate, just a Wonderful human being.
(06:15):
So they founded a school, um, andover time it's involved into a school
specifically designed to, um, one,reinvent higher education so that it
actually meets the needs of all students.
Um, two, to ensure that there's accessto education, um, For students who are
(06:37):
typically marginalized from education, whoare on the edges of education, who have
had negative experiences in education.
And so, so much of our work isaround helping people fulfill
their dreams of obtaining a degree.
And not just for the purpose of gettinga degree, but a degree that allows
(06:58):
them to create change in their ownlives, change for their families,
and change for their communities.
So, it's this.
that functions in a way that's verydifferent from a traditional college.
We value student learning thathappens outside of the classroom.
We value the lived experience ofindividuals and communities and credit
(07:21):
that experience, uh, without a lot ofhoops, um, but with a sense of, um,
Reflection and quality around whatwas the nature of their experience
and the college is just grounded inan environment of deep relationship
with people and a community of care,a cohort based model, uh, projects.
(07:46):
That, um, students do over thecourse of their time at CU where they
develop projects, cultivate them, andmany of them implement afterwards.
So if I were to, um, think about how tocapture CU in a nutshell, I would say it's
a, a college committed to relationship.
(08:06):
Relevance of the curriculum to thestudents who go to school with us
and rigor that it's academically, um,challenging and meaningful to students.
At CU, the provost is, um,responsible for and facilitating and
supporting all of the life of thecollege that's related to learning.
(08:29):
So all of the things that are,what's the array of courses?
Who's teaching?
What does teaching look like?
Is it the kind of teaching where a facultymember walks into a room with old yellow
lined, um, pad of paper, you rememberthose professors who did that, and reads
the same notes semester after semester?
(08:53):
That's not CU.
At CU, education is dynamic, it'slots of discussion, uh, lots of, uh,
connecting theory to practice, to livedexperience, and so I have the, the
joy, the honor of working with facultyand staff and students to create a
robust learning environment in whichstudents can thrive rather than survive.
(09:19):
In my career, I've watched studentsat all kinds of institutions, public
institutions, private institutions,Ivy League institutions, come to
campus with all kinds of aspirations,and some can be highly successful.
And I've also watched some studentscome to those campuses, and actually
(09:42):
I watched the light go out of theireyes, and they either disappear, or
they graduate, but they graduate notbecause of what the college did for them.
They graduate in spite of the college.
And so I've spent my entire careerworking in traditional educational
(10:04):
spaces, trying to ensure that we cancreate an environment that creates less
harm and actually supports students.
And then I found CU.
For years, I was saying, I don'tknow if you can change institutions.
Can you change them from the inside out?
Or are you tinkering onthe edges of a college?
(10:26):
And even at my last institution, Isaid to my team, my staff, my kindreds,
I have to say, you know, we wouldsit in deep discussion sometimes
and think, You can't change them.
You can reduce harm, butyou can't change them.
And one of the folks on my team said,Sylvia, we have to build a college.
(10:48):
You have to start your own college.
And the good news is I didn'thave to start my own college
because Adam and Dennis hadalready started College Unbound.
And it is unbound.
That's not just a throwawaypart of our title.
It's embedded in everything we doto try to unbind it, to loosen it,
(11:09):
to make it an innovative space wherestudents can come in and really
be them best, their best selves.
They're the magic.
They're already talented.
They already have expertise.
I, I love this, Sylvia.
And I, I think everyone can hear thepassion that comes from just your voice.
You know, it's, it's, it's so awesome.
(11:31):
Um, there is something that you were,you know, you were talking about the
yellow line paper, you know, sort of,I think that there is a lot of people
who have, I would, I would say even the,you know, like many people considered,
(11:52):
you know, If you go to someone who'sbeen out of school for 20 years, maybe a
parent, the idea of education is about.
Acquiring more content.
It's a content acquisition exercise andthat the professor has a lot of content.
(12:12):
It's almost like they have a lot ofproducts that you need and they're
just gonna sell it to you and they'll,they'll, they'll, you're supposed
to just transfer that content toyour, from their head to your head
and then, and then you're educated.
And, and that seems to be in my mind,always have this almost like this, like
almost cartoonish, you know, like all thatthey want to do is to say, I have all this
(12:39):
content that someone transferred to meand now I'm going to transfer it to you.
And I, you just keeppassing it on as education.
But when I hear about howyou talk about education.
It's just not that at all.
It's actually about eachperson going out to live.
They go dance, they go enjoy themselves.
They go solve problems in the community.
(13:01):
They go and be friendswith another person.
They go and help another person.
They go in and, um, be the, be the,be the daughter or the son that they
should be for their, for their parents.
And by doing so, bythose lived experience.
Themselves, you learn and become, um,educated and that's a really different
(13:27):
model of thinking about education.
I'm by the way, clearly on your camp.
I think I too, I don't, I think I waslike fairly good at being a student.
I never enjoyed it.
I would say that I probably, I grew upin Hong Kong, um, when I was a kid and,
(13:48):
um, I, I felt like there was like a hugeamount of education trauma, you know,
just like, like you literally have to dothis or you, you literally get physically
beatings for not doing something.
Could be from your teacher, by the way.
Um, it's a, it's a, it's a,it's, it's crazy in my mind.
(14:09):
Right.
But it's all about like,they gave you the content.
Why don't you know it already?
Right.
And if you don't know it, maybe beatingyou will somehow get you to know it.
Now you know, right?
So it's completely, so like fromthat, like, you know, for me,
then I, I sort of learned to bea good enough student, right?
(14:29):
But that kind of educationnever really, in my mind, never
really benefited me very much.
It always feels like it's the kind ofthing where They're supposed to give you
all this content and somehow you knowhow to reflect on them and internalize
them and turn it into your own experienceand that's when you learn, but you just
(14:49):
go, well, why don't we just bypass that?
Why don't we just gostraight into the experience?
Right?
Yeah.
I think that sounds so lovely.
Yeah, and, and, you know, there'sall, everything we know, everything
educators know about learning.
And so we've got the people whostudy the brain, we've got people
who study cognition, we've got study,people who study the acquisition of
(15:12):
information, all of that research.
Tells us that that kind of education,that traditional model of education,
where we're depositing contentinto people's brain does not work.
It means, yeah, you canrecite that information back.
And then, maaan!, you know, aday or two after you took that
(15:36):
quiz or did that test, it's gone.
It's not yours.
It was a temporary visitor thatcame and went, and if it's not
relevant to you, you let it go.
Um, one of the most powerful readingsfor me when I was, um, uh, in my own
educational journey was reading PauloFreire's Pedagogy of the Oppressed.
(15:56):
And, uh, I think it's in the firstchapter, Frere talks about the, the
banking method of education and reallyjust, um, dismantles the notion that
that kind of education actually isuseful, meaningful, has long term, um,
(16:19):
you know, value and talked about howimportant it is to be with students
in community and unveil reality.
People's lived reality in the contextof new material, new ideas, and that's
something people construct together.
Um, and, and so for me, it's justthe space of College Unbound is
(16:45):
exactly the opposite of that.
Um, we don't even like to use wordslike teachers and instructors.
Um, you know, our accrediting agenciesthink that's important, but we're,
We think about facilitators, andconveners, and supporters, and guides,
and how we can create a learningenvironment that's co created together
(17:10):
in community with students and teachers.
And it's out of that kind of relationship,that space, that learning occurs.
Not just learning for students,It's reciprocal in that it's
learning for instructors, um,and folks who are teaching.
Um, and those moments that happen togetherin a class or in a cohort or in community
(17:33):
time breaking bread together, um, aredistinct and magic all of their own.
And then you just, just watch them grow.
Uh, and so it's reallyquite, uh, quite beautiful.
It is how education should always be.
No matter the age of the student, fromlittle people to folks who might be in
(17:53):
their 60s and 70s going back to college.
I love that Sylvia.
Sylvia, I, I think that we will definitelycircle back to some of the magical parts
of College Unbound, but first I wantedto maybe go Deeper into your own history.
Sure.
Because I'm just fascinatedhow, how does Sylvia come to be?
(18:17):
Where, where did you grow up?
What is the journey thatleads you to this point?
I mean, you, like you said, you were inmany different kinds of institutions.
So for people that just think, well, youknow, this, Very like, um, you know, this
really just this person just out theretalking about reinventing education.
(18:37):
She, she may or may not knowwhat education is supposed to be.
You know, I think that's not true.
You've been through a lotof different models as well.
I think it's.
Through that perspective thatyou can find these models that
you can really make comparison.
So why don't you tell us, give usa little insights to, to, you know,
your, your upbringing and what,what made you the way you are?
(18:59):
Yeah.
Wow.
I think my, uh, my kids probablywould have an interesting insight
on that, uh, or, you know,uh, my parents rest in peace.
Um, but, uh, I grew up, um.
In Rhode Island, by the ocean, uh, I, uh,love the environment of being near water.
Um, for me, it's just,um, helps me to breathe.
(19:22):
As a matter of fact, alreadythis morning, I did a 45 minute
walk, uh, By the, by the ocean.
And so there's something about the oceanthat, um, even growing up reminds me of
the vastness of the world that I can't,you know, I just look to the horizon.
So there's something groundingabout that, which always has me
(19:43):
as a, as kind of a disparate.
of my personality, lookingout, looking far, looking past
what is, to what might be.
Um, and so I grew up in this area,went to, you know, your local public
school here in town, and early, like insecond grade, had a really interesting
experience here that I, now reflect onas having shaped a lot of my experiences
(20:09):
in education and why I ended up ineducation, to be perfectly honest.
Um, I was painfully shy as a littlekid, like really, really shy.
Um, you know, visitors would come to seemy parents and I'd run upstairs and sit
at the top of the stairs and just listen.
You know, I wouldn't come downstairs.
I don't want to see them.
Um, so I was painfully shy.
(20:31):
And in school, I was really shy, andso I was quiet, um, and my mother was
called to a parent teacher meeting,and if you can imagine back in the day,
those meetings were really kind of anexercise of power, uh, for some teachers,
um, where they made parents feel small.
(20:54):
And my mother might have been five feettall, but she was not small in, in,
uh, Kind of personality and stature.
Um, she was a mighty tiny woman.
Anyhow, this particular teachersaid something like, um, Sylvia
is very smart, but she's lazy.
And I remember sitting out, I wassitting in a tiny chair outside of that
(21:18):
door to that classroom and I heard it.
And even though, you know, you're alittle kid at, you know, in the second
grade, I remember the feeling of hurt.
I, I, I wasn't lazy.
I was Paralyzed with fear becausethe environment was so uncomfortable.
My mother, of course, alsotaught me about advocacy.
(21:41):
She left that meeting, took my hand,went straight down to the principal's
office, explained that interactionand talked about no to Teacher should
ever think any child is lazy and,um, I was immediately removed from
that class, put in a different class.
The environment was supportive andwarm and friendly and, and I was
(22:07):
happy, did great and apparentlyI wasn't late, late, lazy.
Um, the interesting thing is.
Decades later, when I went back toget my doctorate, uh, in education, in
my, uh, dissertation, uh, introductionor, or acknowledgement page, there's
(22:29):
a long acknowledgement page where Iacknowledge my parents for, you know,
teaching me the value of education.
I acknowledge my kids for demonstratingall of the excitement of learning.
I acknowledge that teacher.
Not in a warm and fuzzy way, but ina way where there was a line that
(22:50):
said, Do you think I'm lazy now?
And so as a learner, I, in mostsituations, whether it was the
Catholic high school that I wentto, or the public institution that
I got my bachelor's at, um, I, I'ma kind of, um, Voracious learner.
(23:11):
I love to read.
I love to be in community withpeople and learn new things.
So the pivot for me to, tohigher ed actually occurred
after I graduated from college.
I was out in the world working,um, believe it or not, working at,
uh, health and fitness centers.
(23:35):
Don't ask me, that'sthe job I got, you know.
So, working at health and fitness centersfor a long time and managing them.
And, um, I came back to Rhode Island, um,when my daughter was about 3 years old.
And, because it's important to be nearyour family and your grandparents.
And started to work, um,for a tribal community here,
(23:57):
which is part of my heritage.
As, um, uh, I think I wasPersonnel Director and then went
on to be Tribal Administrator.
One day I was looking at somedata about the educational levels
of, of people in the tribe.
And I discovered, um, that, Thepercentage of people who had
(24:19):
attended college, not just graduated,attended, was so incredibly low it
almost couldn't be represented bya, by a number, by a percentage.
It was, uh, on the chart I was lookingat, it was less than one percent.
We're in a tiny little state with like 13colleges and one that is actually sitting
(24:43):
in the midst of, you know, uh, nativeland that belongs to the folks here.
Or historically would have.
And then I started to dig more andI started to look at national data.
Less than four tenths of a percentof, um, native folks in the country
at that time had bachelor's degrees.
(25:04):
And I was like, this is outrageous.
What is happening?
And that day I decided to go to back toschool, um, to get my master's degree
so that I could be kind of, uh, Arunner, an intermediary between higher
ed spaces and, um, communities of color.
(25:26):
A translator, um, because so oftenfolks would say, I'm not going to
college, why would I go to college?
There's nothing for me there.
Um, or even my, my, um, master's research,the findings of the study that I did
was that, um, Native American studentsfelt like they were making a choice.
(25:49):
Between being a, uh, a goodstudent or a good Indian.
That's literally what thestudents would say to me.
And so, for them, college was not feelinglike a place that valued their culture,
the way of, um, gaining knowledge, uh,And so that set me on a whole career
(26:10):
of working in multicultural studentservices, working on pluralism efforts,
um, teaching, um, but teaching inhuman development with an emphasis on
equity and, uh, and justice, um, allof the roles I've ever had, whether
they Faculty roles or administrativeroles have always been about how do
(26:32):
we create a more humane, inclusivespace of education for all learners.
And so that's a, that's a, youknow, about 30 years of, of, of work
for me has been focused on that.
I don't know how to do anything elseexcept shape change in higher ed.
(26:53):
What was it like to be doing that?
In and I, I believe that you were atone point at Dartmouth, for example.
Am I right?
Yeah.
Um, when was that?
Yeah.
Let's see.
2007 to 2012.
(27:14):
So five years I was there.
And what was your role there?
I, I.
The role I went into when I startedwas, um, Associate Dean of Student
Life and Director of the Officeof Pluralism and Leadership.
So, embedded in Student Affairs, doing alot of, um, uh, work in their framework to
(27:38):
support BIPOC folks, um, but to create arobust campus environment around students.
Issues of equity, the Native Americanprogram reported to me, Center
for Women and Gender reported tome, some advisors for different
affinity groups, uh, reported to me.
So that's, that's how I started there.
(27:59):
And then very quickly was askedto be Senior Associate Dean of the
College, which had more responsibilityfor working with academic affairs.
And then I The last role was InterimDean of the College, which was kind
of a major, um, a major role witha team of about 500 staff or so.
(28:20):
It was a fascinating environment, Jeff.
Yeah, how, how is, I mean, I, thisis why I, I think it's so amazing.
You know, you had, you know, you had ahuge staff, you had huge responsibility
at an Ivy League institution.
Um, It's a, it's a dream jobfor many educators, um, but
(28:48):
you're shaking your head.
Maybe, maybe it wasn't for you.
Why, why is that?
Uh, it's a really complex space.
It is a place that has incrediblestudents from all over the world.
Deeply talented, some really cynical,
(29:11):
it's also a place where power andprivilege is not just something you have
to contend with, but it's perpetuated.
and It can be an environment thatfor anyone who is not, uh, attuned
(29:33):
to kind of spaces where that kindof activity is cultivated, rewarded,
you're like a fish out of water.
And the interesting thing is when I tookthe first job there, The, the president
of another college, uh, was a colleagueof mine and a friend of mine and he said,
(29:54):
Sylvia, are you sure you want to go there?
You're going into the belly of the beastand I said that's where people like me
need to go so we can create change andI do think I created a lot of change.
Um, I do think students and staff andfaculty who felt like they were on
(30:15):
the margins were positively affectedby some of the work we did together.
And it took a huge toll on me.
And so, it was so interestingthat I was interim or acting dean
of the college for two years.
(30:36):
And that was by contract.
I said, you know, I can't get anythingdone if I'm there for a year, so
I need to get some stuff done.
And Um, was invited to apply for theposition formally and decided not to,
and the students could not understandit, like, because it is the dream job.
(30:59):
If you have a certain inclination,students were just like, Crazy, they
started petitions and, you know,hundreds of students were, you know,
signing petitions in electronic,and I was like, what is happening?
And the school newspaper wascalling me for an interview, Sylvia,
what do you mean you're, you'renot going to apply for the job?
(31:20):
They were just Shocked, absolutelyshocked because they couldn't understand
why somebody wouldn't want it.
And for me, the title wasn't what madethe job, uh, interesting or important.
It was my ability to shape change.
And if I'm somewhere where I can'tshape change, and change is needed,
(31:44):
I will give as much as I can.
And then, um, when I see, okay,I've pushed the institution
as far as it can possibly be.
Go it's time for somebodyelse to come and shape change.
And so, um, I still have so manyrelationships with students who
are now married with kids and, um,successful in their, in their fields
(32:07):
and so many faculty and staff.
Um, and so it was a.
Uh, probably the, a time of my greatestprofessional growth was in that role.
Really powerful.
Um, yeah.
Really powerful.
I think it's amazing to sort of contrast,like you were saying, the, the, the
(32:31):
types of students, the expectation,the privilege, the, the, the, um,
the, even the path that they, theymust have taken in order to get into.
To get admitted into aschool like Dartmouth.
It's not easy.
It's a path that takes manyyears to shape and you kind
of have to walk a certain way.
You have to, you know,especially these days, right?
(32:54):
I mean, like, I think you reallyhave to, you have to have that, that
much prove in your co curricularwork as well as your academic
work and, and all of these things.
And you have to, you haveto play the game perfectly.
Right, in order to, to get in.
Yeah.
Um, and, and like you said, youknow, some students, you know,
(33:21):
would find that they don't belongbecause they just, they just can't.
It's not a, you know, if the game isn'twhat it's about, then it doesn't belong.
That's right.
Then you don't belong.
And contrasting to your currentstudent body at College Unbound, I
(33:41):
think that's what's so amazing to see.
I can see why you, you are, you arelike, thriving at College Unbound
because these are your people.
Yeah, that's it.
That's exactly it.
That is exactly it.
Um, before I, um, took thejob at College Unbound, I went
(34:02):
to visit, um, a cohort night.
So an evening when all of the studentsare gathering, they, the college provides
dinner because so many people arecoming from work or they just picked
up their kids and dropped the kids off.
And, and so there's always a half anhour or so where we're in community.
Having a meal together, uh, so it canbe, you know, groups of 70 students on
(34:24):
any given night, um, eating before theygo into class, and I remember going
to visit and just looking around theroom and was like, Oh, my goodness.
Look at the beauty in this room.
And these are the students who wouldhave never had access to a Dartmouth.
(34:44):
And yet they are the people whowill also make change in the world.
So smart, so talented, socommitted to one another.
You know, when they make their waythrough College Unbound, I really
believe it is the power of relationshipsthat they have with one another.
That, that supports them throughthe college, of course, does
(35:08):
what it's supposed to do.
But I think the glue is that relationship.
Um, and that's very differentthan the experience of someone
who is third generation.
Ivy League student versus, um, some ofthe students I saw at, um, Dartmouth who
were first generation college students,who, brilliant, but didn't have the
(35:31):
cultural capital to navigate that space.
Um, I'll share just one.
story about the kind of pressureand then why we do the opposite.
There was a, a student that I don'tthink I'll ever forget, um, who was a
first generation college student, youngwhite guy, um, from kind of a rural
(35:54):
area, struggling parents, was thereon scholarship, um, And he worked at,
um, like a, about five miles away ata local Burger King and would try to
schedule his hours so that the hourswere not when Dartmouth students were
out cruising around going to Burger King.
(36:18):
He shopped at the local thrift storefor his clothes because there he could
get the throwaway designer clothes.
Um, that students and faculty had,um, dropped in the thrift store so
that he could be wearing the designerlabels that the other folks in his,
(36:38):
uh, fraternity were wearing so theywouldn't know that he was struggling.
Imagine the amount of work it wastaking for that student to put on
the persona of somebody who fits in.
Whereas at College Unbound,
we don't even, we're not eventhinking about that stuff.
(37:01):
It's a come as you are, be whoyou are, because who you are
is, is what is valued there.
And so students, you know, comefrom all kinds of backgrounds,
first generation college students.
There's the average ageof students is 36, 37.
(37:22):
Some have college creditsbefore, some have no credits.
And what they're doing there is.
Actually unlearning what educationis, and learning what education can
be, and re Orient them, orientingthemselves to themselves as a learner,
(37:46):
and that they've always been alearner, despite any negative messages
that they were giving earlier intheir, in their time in education.
So it's a vibrant, lively, spaciousplace, and they are my people.
They really are.
It's fantastic.
Here's a preview of what's coming upnext in part two of my conversation with
(38:09):
Sylvia Spears, Provost and Vice Presidentfor Lifelong Learning at College Unbound.
Look at the beauty in this room andthese are the students who would
have never had access to a Dartmouth,and yet they are the people who
will also make change in the world.
So smart, so talented, socommitted to one another.
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