In this episode, host Jeff Yan continues engaging with Sylvia Spears, Provost and Vice President for Lifelong Learning at College Unbound.
Discover the unique approach of College Unbound to creating a community-based and project-driven educational environment.
Learn how the institution's innovative model focuses on relationship building, reframing failure, and organizational leadership.
Gain insights into the importance of personal learning networks and meaningful education's impact on students and their communities.
Don't miss this insightful conversation about transforming higher education!
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#MakeLearningVisible #CommunityEngagement #LifeLongLearning #RelationshipBuilding
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to DigicationScholars Conversations.
I'm your host, Jeff Yan.
In this episode, you will hear part twoof my conversation with Sylvia Spears,
Provost and Vice President for LifelongLearning at College Unbound . More
links and information about today'sconversation can be found on Digication's
Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
For episodes of Digication ScholarsConversations, Can be found on
(00:24):
YouTube or your favorite podcast app.
I want people to understand whoare listening to this, right?
To understand that.
So, so what is in fact, you know,a gathering, a class, a meal?
What, what is that at CollegeUnbound comparing to other places?
(00:44):
Because I think that people still havethis idea that going to college looks
a lot like there's some like massivelecture hall and this professor deliver.
Really either, you know, if, ifyou're watching a movie, you know,
it's Sir Anthony Hopkins havingdelivered the greatest lecture, you
(01:07):
know, or Morgan Freeman having doneit, you know, or that it's something
that's like, okay, super boring.
It's just a bunch oflike PowerPoint slides.
It's someone just reading through.
Um, I, I think that people.
I wanted people to just paint apicture of what does that look like?
What's the, what, what is, what does itmean to come to a college unbound class?
(01:31):
How often do you come to this classand why is there a meal beforehand?
And how do you structure all of that?
Cause I know it's very different.
I've been through all these and it'sjust, it completely changed my mind.
It just blew my mind and changed mymind about higher education, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
All students.
(01:52):
As they come into College Unbound,come into a cohort, so a group
of no more than 10 students.
That class is called theLab, World and Workplace Lab.
And it is the place wherestudents meet once a week.
With a lab faculty member as afacilitator and a guide, and they,
(02:15):
um, most, the vast majority ofthose classes happen face to face.
So they come, um, we spendtime together in community.
There's announcements, there's brags,there's what's happening in the world.
Occasionally a student will get upand Say I'd like to share something
and they share a spoken word piece.
(02:36):
They share a song.
They share that they, their daughterjust graduated from, from high school.
Uh, so it's really community based time.
And that breaking bread is notjust, Oh, we have to feed people
because they're coming from work.
It's intentional because it sets the tonefor a particular way of being together.
(02:58):
It also means that peoplehave a time to pause.
before they transition into,um, into their lab class.
And so people pause, um, andlaugh and joke and, um, reconnect
with one another after a week.
And then they go into their, the lab.
And the lab is a place wherestudents make meaning of all of the
(03:22):
other classes that they're having.
And so a typical semester isa, um, uh, a lab for 16 weeks.
And then, um, What we call instructionalcourses are eight weeks in duration.
And so the instructional courses aredelivered synchronously or asynchronously
(03:42):
online, but the lab is the home base.
And in the lab, students arereally developing and cultivating
a project that they care about,a community based project.
And the projects can range fromsomebody who decides they want
to launch a mentoring programfor African American males.
(04:04):
Or they want to, um, create anafter school program, um, for
students with special needs.
Or they want to do advocacyaround housing at the Statehouse.
So the projects comefrom students interests.
And that is what's cultivated anddeveloped in the course of the lab over
(04:25):
the time that the students are at CU.
To make what the being in class feelslike I'll share a little bit about
a course I'm teaching right now.
There's, um, there's one major,Organizational Leadership and Change.
And every student is connected in thatmajor because they're drawn to CU not only
(04:48):
because they want a degree, but becausethey want to create change in the world.
So one of the requiredcourses is Reframing Failure.
We meet on Thursday evenings online.
It's synchronously, so I get tosee their faces, which is great.
And, um, it's very much problemposing, education, and inquiry based.
(05:14):
So, a recent assignment, as an example,was, or discussion, was asking students
to think about Biggest failure they thinkthey've had in their lives, and they, they
do, you know, some folks it was thingslike dropping out of school, you know,
(05:37):
at 16, or making a mistake that endedthem with a period of incarceration,
not intervening with a child thatthey have that was abusing drugs.
Um, you know, real, reallife stuff, hard stuff.
(05:59):
We don't ask them to say thosethings just because we want them
to be in the depth of despair.
We have that as part of the class sothat they can re evaluate why they
think those things were a failure.
Were they really a failure orwas it a set of circumstances?
(06:20):
And that some that they couldn't controland some that they couldn't control.
And then we start to unpack.
Where do the messages comefrom about what's a failure?
You know, someone wouldsay, I didn't go to college.
I could have gone to college and I didn't.
That's a failure.
And I'll say to them, You'rein college and you're going
(06:42):
to graduate in two semesters.
Is it still a failure?
And then on their own, they startto develop an understanding of the
many, many things they learned fromthat failure, the insights that they
gained, the person that they became.
And sometimes they evenrealize Wait a minute.
Yeah, there were some, um,things that they regret, but
(07:06):
maybe it wasn't a failure.
It was a step on the way tosomething that was better.
And so, that's just an exampleof a conversation in a course
called Reframing Failure.
Imagine courses around leadership andchange, around, um, organizational
studies and understandinghow organizations function.
(07:27):
It's designed to give them all ofthe skills, knowledge, and expertise,
um, to enact the kind of changethey want to see in the world.
It, it's, it's so amazing to hearabout these courses and experience.
These are the kind ofcourses that it feels like.
(07:48):
It feels like a, it feels likea very meaningful, fun, and
worthwhile learning experience.
It does not feel like the kind of thingswhere you go, Oh yeah, I got class.
Oh, I got a paper due tomorrow.
Oh, I got a final.
You know how it is, right?
Yeah.
I think these are the types ofthings that I can see your student,
(08:10):
and I have seen your students.
They don't just go in, Andthey're not going in thinking,
Oh, man, I have to do this.
It's more like, I get to do this.
It's a really different, it justcome from a really different place.
I also want to talk a little bitabout maybe a couple of things
(08:32):
that you had, you had said.
It's about doing the, you know, the labs,they're doing these projects together.
I want to talk about the roleof the institution for a moment.
And maybe even somewhat of a.
Well, it's by design, really, but it'salso a product of the institution,
the impact of an institution.
(08:53):
I think sometimes we don't talk about thata lot, and we can reframe that, you know,
we can look at it in every institution.
I've been involved inmany institutions as well.
What do the communities think of them?
Are they bringing in
knowledge, people, economy, youknow, are they bettering the,
(09:16):
the, the community in some ways?
And sometimes they're not.
You had mentioned very early on thatat least one of the institutions in
your home state sits on native land,
you know, there.
I'm not, I I, I don't think youwere even saying, well, whether the
(09:39):
institution is a good institution.
It's just a very fact that at some point.
A large group of people were displacedbecause of the institution, right?
But College Unbounddoesn't work like that.
In fact, in your very design, yourstudents, you said, we have cohorts, a
(09:59):
class of 10 ish, you know, students in, ineach of these groups, and there are many,
many groups, and each student developed,A project based on the passion that
does something to better the community.
So even, even if wetake one single cohort,
(10:21):
you would have done 10 things to yourcommunity to better that community.
Whether like you said, it's an afterschool program, whether it's a, I
talked to Jose Rodriguez who starteda free Haircut service for kids.
I talked to, um, one of your, one ofyour alum who I was so amazed by it.
(10:49):
She, she created a, um, swim lessfree swim lessons for, um, kids who.
don't typically get theprivilege to have swim lessons.
So they will lack a majorskill, literal survival skill.
(11:12):
Yeah.
Right.
Um, so your students are out there.
Not only are they learning andgaining, gaining skills, by the
way, in, I really, truly believe indeeper, faster, more impactful ways.
They really are better learners.
It's just, it's almost like saying.
Yeah.
It's the more efficient way tolearn through that experience.
(11:35):
It's, it beats themreading, you know, 10 books.
It just does because it, you know,they're not thinking about the
theories and what the hypotheticalsthey have to solve the problem.
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
Because there are real lives at stake thatthey have to figure out how to do this.
(11:55):
That's right.
And And, but they are making allthese difference in communities, just
as a, you can call it by product.
I think it's by design.
Yeah, it is of your institution, you know,and people are learning at the same time.
I mean, there is so many wins herethat I'm just looking at this.
I'm going.
(12:16):
Oh my god, we've, traditionally,we get some wins, but we
get mostly losses, you know?
Yeah, yeah, that's so true.
And the fact that you have tooccupy the city and the campus
and building, you know, buildingsfor classrooms and administration.
(12:38):
College Unbound doesn't do that.
Nope.
Right.
It's amazing.
And the fact that you can do thatallows you to be nimble and flexible.
You can go into communitiesand serve it as they need to.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And deliver the, the, the program, theeducation in the context of community.
So even now in Rhode Island, um, we makeuse of the, um, The Met School facilities
(13:05):
We don't have our facilities, whichmeans we don't have all of that overhead.
Our, um, dollars are spent on deliveryof the program to students and supporting
those students to be successful.
And we also have, um, Um, two cohortsof people, uh, in Central Falls in Rhode
(13:26):
Island, in Woonsocket in Rhode Island,in Newport in Rhode Island, um, in
Philadelphia, uh, in, uh, Camden, andso where a partnership or a relationship
grows with a Community based organization.
If they say, oh, we've got, you know,folks who are interested in getting their
degree and it seems like a good fit, anorganization can say, yeah, and when we
(13:52):
close at five o'clock, the cohort canmeet in the, in our conference room.
Then it makes it easier for employees.
They don't have to go anywhere.
They just switch, they get some food,and they begin their evening for class.
So, we're in communityand we're of community.
And so what's interesting, there isno, you know, in traditional settings,
(14:14):
there's the town gown relationship.
The college and the community.
We know sometimes those relationshipscan be really contentious or it can
even be that the college has come in andswooped up land and some people would
say, Oh, they, um, developed an area.
(14:38):
Other people would say theygentrified an area and pushed
out folks in that community.
Uh, another college I worked at justbefore, um, College Unbound, beautiful
community, beautiful college, expandingcollege, right on the Boston Common.
(14:58):
Okay, that's great.
Yeah, you know, if you were 18 yearsold, wouldn't you want to go to a college
where your view is on the Boston Common?
But as the college spread back, italso displaced folks in Chinatown.
And so, That is often thestory of colleges, and College
Unbound, uh, intentionallyseeks to be in and of community.
(15:23):
If you go to, um, events in the City ofProvidence that are trying to create a
better city, a better lived experiencefor the residents of the Providence
area, you'll see on committees, inthe audience, um, leading discussions,
advocating for change, Just like a sea ofCollege Unbound students, whether they're
(15:47):
alums or previous students or folks whoare alums who now work in City Hall.
They are just in the community andshaping change in, in their circles
that seem to be ever expanding.
And so you're right, there is this, um,kind of magical, you know, You know,
stones in a pond, you know, you throw astone and the ripples just keep going.
(16:11):
So every cohort, 10 stones, uh, thatare creating change in the world.
It's amazing.
Cause I, I, I, I sometimes thinkthat, and in fact, these literal, I
mean, I don't know whether they'recompetitions or ranking or whatever,
you know, you call them really exist.
Most beautiful campusesin the United States.
(16:31):
Right.
And I, I, I can see how Um, enamoredone can be when you step foot on
a campus and it's got, you know,the grand, um, you know, campus.
And I, I don't want to name namesbecause they're really beautiful campus.
(16:52):
And you, you're like,wow, I belong to this,
this
space.
But at the same time, I don'tthink that, I think that it's.
Crazy that an institution is judgedby the square footage that they have.
Yeah.
Right.
As opposed to the impact thathave on that community itself.
Right.
So it's almost like this kind of idea ofownership of square footage or whatever.
(17:18):
At some point, I think it was,it was really for a real purpose.
You know, I, you know, we needa place to convene and whatnot.
But.
They became extremely permanent and thosethings drive one thing, drive another.
Now you have to hire peopleto do that, to maintain them.
And, and then there's the cost.
And when we think about sort ofproblems of higher education, I
(17:38):
think cost and affordability isdefinitely one of the things.
And like what you have just shownand proven to us that you can get an
actual better space, more convenientspace for those who actually are
attending this school, um, for.
A fraction of the cost.
By the way, there is cost to what you do.
(17:59):
Yeah.
Because you know what you do?
You spend money onproviding meals to them.
You spend money on providingchild care for those who
actually come to attend school.
You don't get to go to Dartmouthand come to class and say
like, here, here is my kid.
Can you drop him off for this?
You don't get to do that.
No.
And you should, given thatmoney that you're paying.
(18:21):
Um, and so I think that's, that's a, it's,it's, it's just really, really smart.
I think that you've really done so muchof that re imagining higher education that
it really, it's, it's, it's subtle in thesmallest details, kind of like what you're
saying, breaking bread isn't just to,yes, on one hand, we want to feed them.
(18:44):
We want them to have the energy to, to, tocarry on after a day of work and all that.
But it's also a pause and alsoa time to reflect and reset.
I just love all these really smart,in a way it seems simple, but like
amazing solutions often seem simpleonce you've come up with them.
And I think that that's, that'swhat you've done at College Unbound.
(19:09):
I think it's really amazing.
Um, can I talk a little bit more aboutthis sort of relationship building?
I think that there is a, um, one couldalso say, Hey, I attended a school.
I had great relationshipswith my classmates.
A lot of times they develop thatrelationship, maybe at a fraternity or
(19:30):
in a dorm room, or maybe through clubs,athletics, you know, what have you.
I actually have found that many ofthem, they do have relationships.
I don't want to say they don't, but therelationship is not very deep when it
comes to the academic side of the house.
(19:51):
So if you took a math class together orwriting class together, actually in many
places, and I, this is not the case inall, all places, in fact, we work with
a lot of schools at Digication, veryprivileged to do so where they, they do
a lot of sharing by the nature of theirwork, but in many traditional classrooms.
Actually, you don't evenknow what the next person is
(20:13):
writing in that writing class.
In fact, you're not allowed to share.
You're not encouraged to share.
Sometimes you're notallowed to share, right?
Because it's like, it's, it's likethe, you know, like this is my stuff.
This is your stuff.
So actually, No one ever, like, peopledon't get to learn from each other very
(20:36):
much, and I, I know that that's notthe case in all classrooms, you know,
I know that, you know, that's not thecase, you know, in fact, that's very
much what I try to help people do aswell, you know, using, you know, our, our
platform, but, but at College Unbound,when you talked about this cohort of
(20:58):
people, I want people to realize thatIn those, you said 16 weeks in the lab?
Mm hmm.
In those 16 weeks, Each person is comingup with these projects and their passion,
and they are telling each other everysingle week, what their progress is,
what their hurdles are, what's goingon, you know, what are the changes, you
(21:20):
know, if they had to change an idea andthen they all have each other's back by
giving each other feedback and responsesin, in a way that, and I, I love this
because You have 10 students in there.
They are not doing one project.
They're doing one of their ownproject and nine of the other
(21:44):
people's projects at the same time.
You get invested into them, right?
If someone is doing that afterschool program, you're not
doing the after school program.
Someone else is doing the afterschool program and you get to You
thought of something, you'd help them.
You
know someone in a school who mightbe a good point, a contact person
(22:06):
to start the absence school program.
You make the connections for them, right?
You become each other's support structure.
So when you're talking aboutrelationship is different from that
of People thinking, well, these aremy college buddies relationship.
Absolutely.
These are people that you went to doextraordinary work together and you
(22:28):
respect and understand each other, bothat an intellectual level, but also at
the, at a very deep, um, sort of thedeep respect to the people's core values.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's different in my mind than justsaying, you know, It's sort of like
your, you know, um, uh, uh, buddyfor going to football games together.
(22:53):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because the, um, the, the, the kind ofpersonal experience and the academic
experience are are connected, as opposedto, oh, my social and personal life
happens only outside of the classroom.
It's, it's, they're all, they're the same.
(23:14):
People aren't leaving themselves,part of themselves at the
door when they come into lab.
And they're in that lab for 16weeks of every semester that
they're enrolled at College Unbound.
So they're with those same folksthrough the whole experience.
And when they graduate.
(23:36):
It's, they talk about eachother as extended family.
They're no longer just a peer in a,in a, oh yeah, we went to college.
They are tight and when, you know,somebody from the cohort walks
across the stage at commencement,I don't know who's louder.
Is it the family in the back who'slouder or is it that cohort who's just
(23:57):
screaming their heart out and with tearsand high fives and hugs and it, it is.
The celebration of one.
is the celebration of the whole.
And so there's something really,really powerful in the relationships
that are formed in the lab.
They are, as you noted, supportingeach other, talking about each
(24:21):
other, giving each other feedback.
So there's all of the stuff that'srelated to the, the learning.
And then They're even kind of givinga hand up when something goes wrong.
So somebody's car breaks down andthey, they write to their cohort, uh,
you know, in Snapchat and say, I'mnot going to make it to class tonight.
My car is broken.
(24:43):
10 minutes later,somebody is like, hold on.
Nope, we're not doing that.
I'll come get you.
Give me your address.
And next thing you know,that student's in class.
Um, that's how theyhave each other's backs.
And there's some formal things thatwe do to, to also support that.
So, based on the project, every studentdevelops a personal learning network.
(25:05):
So, four or five people.
That they believe have wisdom,expertise, experience that's going
to help them with their project.
Somebody that they can, um,be in touch with informally or
formally to advance their project.
So every student has a personal learningnetwork that they've identified.
(25:27):
Which means the, you know,the value of relationships.
in CU's educational model isprobably the highest priority.
And it's so consistent with some of thevalues that we have around learning and
how learning happens, how it happens bestis always in, in the context of community.
(25:50):
And so we do a lot to cultivate, um,both spontaneous as well as intentional.
Moments for people to be inrelationship with one another.
And that's, that's where thebest learning comes from.
So, I mean, I think that at this point,if people are listening to this, at
(26:12):
this point, you're thinking, this isan amazing, beautiful, magical college.
It must cost a hundred-K,twenty-K to attend.
No,
Sylvia, what is, how much, howmuch does this whole thing cost?
I mean, it's high touch, small classes.
You're providing.
Food and childcare.
(26:35):
How, I mean, and then you were talkingabout this population of people who may
not, shouldn't have been able to affordcollege, how there's some, there's an
imbalance here, you know, like how, howmuch is this thing going to cost them?
Uh, it's, uh, about 10, 000 a year.
10, 000 a year and theyhave to do it for six years?
(26:56):
No, most students, it's two years.
Two years?
Maybe two and a half at the most.
To get a bachelor's
degree.
Yeah, because many of them have,they're coming with credits or they
have lived experience that is, um,valuable experience that can be
(27:16):
reviewed through portfolio for credit.
And so we take the experience if somebodywas a caregiver of an elderly parent and
as part of that process had to understandmedicines and all kinds of health
related activities and really can provideevidence of deep learning around health
(27:42):
and well being and, uh, all of that.
They, they may submit a portfolio thatreflects on that learning that provides
evidence of that learning and then theyactually can receive credit for learning.
So, you can't be somebody who'slived in the world and at your 35,
40 years old and you and not havelearned deep skills and knowledge
(28:04):
and so we value that, that knowledge.
And so somebody might come in and theymight have 20 credits from community
college, but they might do portfoliosand give themselves a bump and then
do the major and then do additionalcredits so that it's around two years.
Um, there have been a handfulof mighty people who have
(28:29):
done it in a year in a summer.
And got their bachelor's degree.
It's, it's amazing.
Just, just to describe to folks,these are people who traditional
college might have failed them.
The society, the community in whichthey live in may have failed them.
(28:50):
And that they are stuck in a space, in a,in, in, in a, in a, in a phase of their
lives where they literally are stuck.
They, they don't have away to go and get a degree.
If they could get a degree, theymight've gotten a better job.
(29:11):
You know, better pay or better outcomein, you know, the current, you know, the
job and a career, but they couldn't do it.
They couldn't, theycouldn't have the ability.
They don't have the abilityto go back to school to do it.
Now one could say, well, theycould go to community college
and do it and sort of part time.
And so there are actuallyother opportunities to do
things part time as well.
Right.
But these are schools that are notdesigned to help people like them.
(29:36):
Actually, that's most people, right?
They're not designed to helpmost people's real lives.
They're, you know, they'redesigned for people who are
willing to sacrifice so much.
Of what life really should be, shouldbe for them in order to get that degree.
The sacrifice, the sacrificingsometimes is too much.
Maybe it's in the, in the, in the,you know, um, um, for someone who's,
(30:03):
uh, who has young children, forexample, just couldn't do it, right?
So they're stuck in the part of theface of their life where there's no no
possible forward movement in betteringthemselves, or at least that's how it
is.
And that they can come to CollegeUnbound, first of all, is much,
(30:27):
much, much less expensive.
But second, is that they could do, theycould actually obtain an accredited
4 year bachelor's degree, what'straditionally a 4 year bachelor's degree.
In, in some cases, a year anda bit, but most of the time,
two, two and a half years.
(30:47):
That's incredible.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that degree is accessible becauseof how the, the curricular model
is delivered, that it's relevantto the work that they're doing.
So it's not like, Oh, I have to stopdoing what I'm doing to go to college.
It actually feeds into thework that they're doing.
(31:07):
So many people, even before theygraduate, will be recognized by their
employers and move into other roles.
Um, for some students, they graduateand, um, as soon as they can, show that
diploma, they're promoted, you know,a 15, 000 or 20, 000 bump is, is real.
(31:28):
That's something that can materiallychange the experience of, of students.
And if you can change the, the experienceof a mother who's raising kids on
her own, or a dad who's out therestruggling, or somebody who's in a multi
generational household, you can changethe trajectory of that entire family.
(31:49):
And so that's why CU is committedto removing barriers, um, and as
many barriers as we can so folkscan just do the work that they need
to do, um, to advance their livesand to make change in the world.
And I have to say, There are dayswhen it feels like a really magical
place, especially when you're hangingout with students and the work
(32:13):
behind the scenes to ensure thatwe don't unintentionally replicate
the stuff that's in higher ed.
The traditional things in higher ed isreal work, um, because all of us, whether
we've been higher ed professionalsor community, uh, worked in community
(32:36):
organizations, all of us as a staff andfaculty have been acculturated, socialized
into a different model of education.
Yeah,
and we're committed to learningfrom traditional higher
education, but not replicating it.
And so how we're always in theprocess of becoming, always in the
(33:01):
process of innovating, of askingourselves, why are we doing this?
Uh, is it going to build relationships?
Is it going to advance equity?
Is it, um, you know, replicationjust for the sake of replication?
Is it meeting the needs of our students?
Is the student voice actuallyfundamental to our decision making?
(33:26):
And if it's not, if we answer no to any ofthose things, then we need to take a pause
before we do anything because we don'twant to replicate or to become the very
thing that we're trying to work against.
That's amazing, Sylvia.
I, I was going to ask you, but I thinkyou actually pre answered that question,
which was, you know, if I was, if I'mlistening to this, I'm, I'm an admin,
(33:52):
I'm a dean and an administrator.
I'm someone with the power to change,to make significant impact in my
current institution that is not CU,and maybe we suffer from some of
the things that we had talked about.
Mm hmm.
Maybe I didn't even realizewe were suffering from it
until you talked about it.
(34:12):
We thought those are good things, butnow I realize, oh, hold on a minute.
Um, you know, I, I think thatyou gave people so much hope, but
also a practical real example, amodel, a roadmap to say, Hey, look,
acknowledge some of these thingsthat, that may not be, you know, we
(34:37):
sometimes have metrics in our lives,you know, that, that were given to
us that didn't have a good, theyweren't good metrics to begin with.
And yet, because they were the onesgiven to us, we take that as, you The
effect, and sometimes they're not,and we have to reexamine those things.
(35:00):
And I think all those things thatyou just talked about give people,
um, maybe a starting point, right?
Yeah.
You think, do you believe that,do you believe that there is.
What is your magic wand?
Not magic wand overnight.
(35:21):
I think magic wand overnight doesn't work.
I think that's just, you know, that's justsilly, but magic wand in 30 years, Sylvia,
a 30 year long magic wand, you get to,Do the wand, but it doesn't come true.
It's going to take small parts every dayfor the next 30 years for it to come true.
(35:41):
What does that magic wand lookslike for higher education for you?
Wow.
I love that question.
Um, I think it would look like, um, notthat colleges there'd be, um, more CUs or
colleges would look more like CU, but CU.
(36:02):
The model that CU uses would be, um,already a thing of the past because
we would have actually developed thenext level of innovation that, that,
um, that the basis of CU in, in 10years is in colleges already and that
(36:24):
colleges are creating the next iterationof what it means to meet the needs
of students because it's not static.
The needs of students will change.
Barriers will change and how do weensure that every college, every
community is actually dismantlingthe things that do not serve students
(36:46):
and building the things that do.
And so, I'm looking for what's the nextinnovation that springs out of CU and all
of the CU like institutions or all of theCU like communities of practice within
institutions that then actually have avery different landscape for higher ed.
(37:07):
That it all looks different.
And, um, things like Relationshipand relevance are embedded
fully in every college, everyinstitution across the country.
And that people actually haveaccess, that they're, that they
are more of community, uh, andless set aside on a hill somewhere.
(37:30):
What a beautiful, beautiful vision.
I can't think of a better time to, to endour conversation, but to leave everyone
here listening, think about that, ponder.
And maybe I don't, we don't usually dothis at these conversations, but I think
this is a point for people to think about,well, what, what are some things that
(37:52):
you can do in your community to, if youagree with what Sylvia is saying to, to,
to help that become a reality, becauseI think that is a beautiful, beautiful,
um, sounds like a magical place to be.
And I think that, you know,if people are willing to.
Put in some work intogoing towards that goal.
(38:14):
I think I, I really think that is it's,it's, it's a realistic goal, um, that
one could have, it's not magic wand inthat it's just potion and pixie dust.
I think it's.
I think that you are, you arestarting there and you are doing it.
And I think with, you know, withmore people knowing about this, um,
it could really be a reality andI'm so glad to be in the beginning
(38:39):
of these conversations with you.
Only 14 years in, in, in, in, inestablishment and, but, but the, but some
of the most amazing discoveries today.
I hope that everyone enjoyed this,um, this conversation with Sylvia.
Thank you, Sylvia, so much forbeing, um, sharing your insights.
I, I, I love this and I hope thatwe continue this conversation.
(39:02):
It's been a pleasure.
Take care, Sylvia.
You too.
Coming up next, we'll be chatting withMatthew Street, senior lecturer in
Spanish at the University of Virginia.
Here's a quick preview
and just encourage them to, to startcreating with the language, like you
mentioned, like you mentioned earlier.
(39:23):
You know, I want the studentsto, to be comfortable.
My job there is to kind of gentlypush students towards things and
encourage them to organize on their own.
Welcome to DigicationScholars Conversations.
I'm your host, Jeff Yan.
In this episode, you will hear part twoof my conversation with Sylvia Spears,
Provost and Vice President for LifelongLearning at College Unbound . More
links and information about today'sconversation can be found on Digication's
Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
For episodes of Digication ScholarsConversations, Can be found on
(00:24):
YouTube or your favorite podcast app.
I want people to understand whoare listening to this, right?
To understand that.
So, so what is in fact, you know,a gathering, a class, a meal?
What, what is that at CollegeUnbound comparing to other places?
(00:44):
Because I think that people still havethis idea that going to college looks
a lot like there's some like massivelecture hall and this professor deliver.
Really either, you know, if, ifyou're watching a movie, you know,
it's Sir Anthony Hopkins havingdelivered the greatest lecture, you
(01:07):
know, or Morgan Freeman having doneit, you know, or that it's something
that's like, okay, super boring.
It's just a bunch oflike PowerPoint slides.
It's someone just reading through.
Um, I, I think that people.
I wanted people to just paint apicture of what does that look like?
What's the, what, what is, what does itmean to come to a college unbound class?
(01:31):
How often do you come to this classand why is there a meal beforehand?
And how do you structure all of that?
Cause I know it's very different.
I've been through all these and it'sjust, it completely changed my mind.
It just blew my mind and changed mymind about higher education, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
All students.
(01:52):
As they come into College Unbound,come into a cohort, so a group
of no more than 10 students.
That class is called theLab, World and Workplace Lab.
And it is the place wherestudents meet once a week.
With a lab faculty member as afacilitator and a guide, and they,
(02:15):
um, most, the vast majority ofthose classes happen face to face.
So they come, um, we spendtime together in community.
There's announcements, there's brags,there's what's happening in the world.
Occasionally a student will get upand Say I'd like to share something
and they share a spoken word piece.
(02:36):
They share a song.
They share that they, their daughterjust graduated from, from high school.
Uh, so it's really community based time.
And that breaking bread is notjust, Oh, we have to feed people
because they're coming from work.
It's intentional because it sets the tonefor a particular way of being together.
(02:58):
It also means that peoplehave a time to pause.
before they transition into,um, into their lab class.
And so people pause, um, andlaugh and joke and, um, reconnect
with one another after a week.
And then they go into their, the lab.
And the lab is a place wherestudents make meaning of all of the
(03:22):
other classes that they're having.
And so a typical semester isa, um, uh, a lab for 16 weeks.
And then, um, What we call instructionalcourses are eight weeks in duration.
And so the instructional courses aredelivered synchronously or asynchronously
(03:42):
online, but the lab is the home base.
And in the lab, students arereally developing and cultivating
a project that they care about,a community based project.
And the projects can range fromsomebody who decides they want
to launch a mentoring programfor African American males.
(04:04):
Or they want to, um, create anafter school program, um, for
students with special needs.
Or they want to do advocacyaround housing at the Statehouse.
So the projects comefrom students interests.
And that is what's cultivated anddeveloped in the course of the lab over
(04:25):
the time that the students are at CU.
To make what the being in class feelslike I'll share a little bit about
a course I'm teaching right now.
There's, um, there's one major,Organizational Leadership and Change.
And every student is connected in thatmajor because they're drawn to CU not only
(04:48):
because they want a degree, but becausethey want to create change in the world.
So one of the requiredcourses is Reframing Failure.
We meet on Thursday evenings online.
It's synchronously, so I get tosee their faces, which is great.
And, um, it's very much problemposing, education, and inquiry based.
(05:14):
So, a recent assignment, as an example,was, or discussion, was asking students
to think about Biggest failure they thinkthey've had in their lives, and they, they
do, you know, some folks it was thingslike dropping out of school, you know,
(05:37):
at 16, or making a mistake that endedthem with a period of incarceration,
not intervening with a child thatthey have that was abusing drugs.
Um, you know, real, reallife stuff, hard stuff.
(05:59):
We don't ask them to say thosethings just because we want them
to be in the depth of despair.
We have that as part of the class sothat they can re evaluate why they
think those things were a failure.
Were they really a failure orwas it a set of circumstances?
(06:20):
And that some that they couldn't controland some that they couldn't control.
And then we start to unpack.
Where do the messages comefrom about what's a failure?
You know, someone wouldsay, I didn't go to college.
I could have gone to college and I didn't.
That's a failure.
And I'll say to them, You'rein college and you're going
(06:42):
to graduate in two semesters.
Is it still a failure?
And then on their own, they startto develop an understanding of the
many, many things they learned fromthat failure, the insights that they
gained, the person that they became.
And sometimes they evenrealize Wait a minute.
Yeah, there were some, um,things that they regret, but
(07:06):
maybe it wasn't a failure.
It was a step on the way tosomething that was better.
And so, that's just an exampleof a conversation in a course
called Reframing Failure.
Imagine courses around leadership andchange, around, um, organizational
studies and understandinghow organizations function.
(07:27):
It's designed to give them all ofthe skills, knowledge, and expertise,
um, to enact the kind of changethey want to see in the world.
It, it's, it's so amazing to hearabout these courses and experience.
These are the kind ofcourses that it feels like.
(07:48):
It feels like a, it feels likea very meaningful, fun, and
worthwhile learning experience.
It does not feel like the kind of thingswhere you go, Oh yeah, I got class.
Oh, I got a paper due tomorrow.
Oh, I got a final.
You know how it is, right?
Yeah.
I think these are the types ofthings that I can see your student,
(08:10):
and I have seen your students.
They don't just go in, Andthey're not going in thinking,
Oh, man, I have to do this.
It's more like, I get to do this.
It's a really different, it justcome from a really different place.
I also want to talk a little bitabout maybe a couple of things
(08:32):
that you had, you had said.
It's about doing the, you know, the labs,they're doing these projects together.
I want to talk about the roleof the institution for a moment.
And maybe even somewhat of a.
Well, it's by design, really, but it'salso a product of the institution,
the impact of an institution.
(08:53):
I think sometimes we don't talk about thata lot, and we can reframe that, you know,
we can look at it in every institution.
I've been involved inmany institutions as well.
What do the communities think of them?
Are they bringing in
knowledge, people, economy, youknow, are they bettering the,
(09:16):
the, the community in some ways?
And sometimes they're not.
You had mentioned very early on thatat least one of the institutions in
your home state sits on native land,
you know, there.
I'm not, I I, I don't think youwere even saying, well, whether the
(09:39):
institution is a good institution.
It's just a very fact that at some point.
A large group of people were displacedbecause of the institution, right?
But College Unbounddoesn't work like that.
In fact, in your very design, yourstudents, you said, we have cohorts, a
(09:59):
class of 10 ish, you know, students in, ineach of these groups, and there are many,
many groups, and each student developed,A project based on the passion that
does something to better the community.
So even, even if wetake one single cohort,
(10:21):
you would have done 10 things to yourcommunity to better that community.
Whether like you said, it's an afterschool program, whether it's a, I
talked to Jose Rodriguez who starteda free Haircut service for kids.
I talked to, um, one of your, one ofyour alum who I was so amazed by it.
(10:49):
She, she created a, um, swim lessfree swim lessons for, um, kids who.
don't typically get theprivilege to have swim lessons.
So they will lack a majorskill, literal survival skill.
(11:12):
Yeah.
Right.
Um, so your students are out there.
Not only are they learning andgaining, gaining skills, by the
way, in, I really, truly believe indeeper, faster, more impactful ways.
They really are better learners.
It's just, it's almost like saying.
Yeah.
It's the more efficient way tolearn through that experience.
(11:35):
It's, it beats themreading, you know, 10 books.
It just does because it, you know,they're not thinking about the
theories and what the hypotheticalsthey have to solve the problem.
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
Because there are real lives at stake thatthey have to figure out how to do this.
(11:55):
That's right.
And And, but they are making allthese difference in communities, just
as a, you can call it by product.
I think it's by design.
Yeah, it is of your institution, you know,and people are learning at the same time.
I mean, there is so many wins herethat I'm just looking at this.
I'm going.
(12:16):
Oh my god, we've, traditionally,we get some wins, but we
get mostly losses, you know?
Yeah, yeah, that's so true.
And the fact that you have tooccupy the city and the campus
and building, you know, buildingsfor classrooms and administration.
(12:38):
College Unbound doesn't do that.
Nope.
Right.
It's amazing.
And the fact that you can do thatallows you to be nimble and flexible.
You can go into communitiesand serve it as they need to.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And deliver the, the, the program, theeducation in the context of community.
So even now in Rhode Island, um, we makeuse of the, um, The Met School facilities
(13:05):
We don't have our facilities, whichmeans we don't have all of that overhead.
Our, um, dollars are spent on deliveryof the program to students and supporting
those students to be successful.
And we also have, um, Um, two cohortsof people, uh, in Central Falls in Rhode
(13:26):
Island, in Woonsocket in Rhode Island,in Newport in Rhode Island, um, in
Philadelphia, uh, in, uh, Camden, andso where a partnership or a relationship
grows with a Community based organization.
If they say, oh, we've got, you know,folks who are interested in getting their
degree and it seems like a good fit, anorganization can say, yeah, and when we
(13:52):
close at five o'clock, the cohort canmeet in the, in our conference room.
Then it makes it easier for employees.
They don't have to go anywhere.
They just switch, they get some food,and they begin their evening for class.
So, we're in communityand we're of community.
And so what's interesting, there isno, you know, in traditional settings,
(14:14):
there's the town gown relationship.
The college and the community.
We know sometimes those relationshipscan be really contentious or it can
even be that the college has come in andswooped up land and some people would
say, Oh, they, um, developed an area.
(14:38):
Other people would say theygentrified an area and pushed
out folks in that community.
Uh, another college I worked at justbefore, um, College Unbound, beautiful
community, beautiful college, expandingcollege, right on the Boston Common.
(14:58):
Okay, that's great.
Yeah, you know, if you were 18 yearsold, wouldn't you want to go to a college
where your view is on the Boston Common?
But as the college spread back, italso displaced folks in Chinatown.
And so, That is often thestory of colleges, and College
Unbound, uh, intentionallyseeks to be in and of community.
(15:23):
If you go to, um, events in the City ofProvidence that are trying to create a
better city, a better lived experiencefor the residents of the Providence
area, you'll see on committees, inthe audience, um, leading discussions,
advocating for change, Just like a sea ofCollege Unbound students, whether they're
(15:47):
alums or previous students or folks whoare alums who now work in City Hall.
They are just in the community andshaping change in, in their circles
that seem to be ever expanding.
And so you're right, there is this, um,kind of magical, you know, You know,
stones in a pond, you know, you throw astone and the ripples just keep going.
(16:11):
So every cohort, 10 stones, uh, thatare creating change in the world.
It's amazing.
Cause I, I, I, I sometimes thinkthat, and in fact, these literal, I
mean, I don't know whether they'recompetitions or ranking or whatever,
you know, you call them really exist.
Most beautiful campusesin the United States.
(16:31):
Right.
And I, I, I can see how Um, enamoredone can be when you step foot on
a campus and it's got, you know,the grand, um, you know, campus.
And I, I don't want to name namesbecause they're really beautiful campus.
(16:52):
And you, you're like,wow, I belong to this,
this
space.
But at the same time, I don'tthink that, I think that it's.
Crazy that an institution is judgedby the square footage that they have.
Yeah.
Right.
As opposed to the impact thathave on that community itself.
Right.
So it's almost like this kind of idea ofownership of square footage or whatever.
(17:18):
At some point, I think it was,it was really for a real purpose.
You know, I, you know, we needa place to convene and whatnot.
But.
They became extremely permanent and thosethings drive one thing, drive another.
Now you have to hire peopleto do that, to maintain them.
And, and then there's the cost.
And when we think about sort ofproblems of higher education, I
(17:38):
think cost and affordability isdefinitely one of the things.
And like what you have just shownand proven to us that you can get an
actual better space, more convenientspace for those who actually are
attending this school, um, for.
A fraction of the cost.
By the way, there is cost to what you do.
(17:59):
Yeah.
Because you know what you do?
You spend money onproviding meals to them.
You spend money on providingchild care for those who
actually come to attend school.
You don't get to go to Dartmouthand come to class and say
like, here, here is my kid.
Can you drop him off for this?
You don't get to do that.
No.
And you should, given thatmoney that you're paying.
(18:21):
Um, and so I think that's, that's a, it's,it's, it's just really, really smart.
I think that you've really done so muchof that re imagining higher education that
it really, it's, it's, it's subtle in thesmallest details, kind of like what you're
saying, breaking bread isn't just to,yes, on one hand, we want to feed them.
(18:44):
We want them to have the energy to, to, tocarry on after a day of work and all that.
But it's also a pause and alsoa time to reflect and reset.
I just love all these really smart,in a way it seems simple, but like
amazing solutions often seem simpleonce you've come up with them.
And I think that that's, that'swhat you've done at College Unbound.
(19:09):
I think it's really amazing.
Um, can I talk a little bit more aboutthis sort of relationship building?
I think that there is a, um, one couldalso say, Hey, I attended a school.
I had great relationshipswith my classmates.
A lot of times they develop thatrelationship, maybe at a fraternity or
(19:30):
in a dorm room, or maybe through clubs,athletics, you know, what have you.
I actually have found that many ofthem, they do have relationships.
I don't want to say they don't, but therelationship is not very deep when it
comes to the academic side of the house.
(19:51):
So if you took a math class together orwriting class together, actually in many
places, and I, this is not the case inall, all places, in fact, we work with
a lot of schools at Digication, veryprivileged to do so where they, they do
a lot of sharing by the nature of theirwork, but in many traditional classrooms.
Actually, you don't evenknow what the next person is
(20:13):
writing in that writing class.
In fact, you're not allowed to share.
You're not encouraged to share.
Sometimes you're notallowed to share, right?
Because it's like, it's, it's likethe, you know, like this is my stuff.
This is your stuff.
So actually, No one ever, like, peopledon't get to learn from each other very
(20:36):
much, and I, I know that that's notthe case in all classrooms, you know,
I know that, you know, that's not thecase, you know, in fact, that's very
much what I try to help people do aswell, you know, using, you know, our, our
platform, but, but at College Unbound,when you talked about this cohort of
(20:58):
people, I want people to realize thatIn those, you said 16 weeks in the lab?
Mm hmm.
In those 16 weeks, Each person is comingup with these projects and their passion,
and they are telling each other everysingle week, what their progress is,
what their hurdles are, what's goingon, you know, what are the changes, you
(21:20):
know, if they had to change an idea andthen they all have each other's back by
giving each other feedback and responsesin, in a way that, and I, I love this
because You have 10 students in there.
They are not doing one project.
They're doing one of their ownproject and nine of the other
(21:44):
people's projects at the same time.
You get invested into them, right?
If someone is doing that afterschool program, you're not
doing the after school program.
Someone else is doing the afterschool program and you get to You
thought of something, you'd help them.
You
know someone in a school who mightbe a good point, a contact person
(22:06):
to start the absence school program.
You make the connections for them, right?
You become each other's support structure.
So when you're talking aboutrelationship is different from that
of People thinking, well, these aremy college buddies relationship.
Absolutely.
These are people that you went to doextraordinary work together and you
(22:28):
respect and understand each other, bothat an intellectual level, but also at
the, at a very deep, um, sort of thedeep respect to the people's core values.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's different in my mind than justsaying, you know, It's sort of like
your, you know, um, uh, uh, buddyfor going to football games together.
(22:53):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because the, um, the, the, the kind ofpersonal experience and the academic
experience are are connected, as opposedto, oh, my social and personal life
happens only outside of the classroom.
It's, it's, they're all, they're the same.
(23:14):
People aren't leaving themselves,part of themselves at the
door when they come into lab.
And they're in that lab for 16weeks of every semester that
they're enrolled at College Unbound.
So they're with those same folksthrough the whole experience.
And when they graduate.
(23:36):
It's, they talk about eachother as extended family.
They're no longer just a peer in a,in a, oh yeah, we went to college.
They are tight and when, you know,somebody from the cohort walks
across the stage at commencement,I don't know who's louder.
Is it the family in the back who'slouder or is it that cohort who's just
(23:57):
screaming their heart out and with tearsand high fives and hugs and it, it is.
The celebration of one.
is the celebration of the whole.
And so there's something really,really powerful in the relationships
that are formed in the lab.
They are, as you noted, supportingeach other, talking about each
(24:21):
other, giving each other feedback.
So there's all of the stuff that'srelated to the, the learning.
And then They're even kind of givinga hand up when something goes wrong.
So somebody's car breaks down andthey, they write to their cohort, uh,
you know, in Snapchat and say, I'mnot going to make it to class tonight.
My car is broken.
(24:43):
10 minutes later,somebody is like, hold on.
Nope, we're not doing that.
I'll come get you.
Give me your address.
And next thing you know,that student's in class.
Um, that's how theyhave each other's backs.
And there's some formal things thatwe do to, to also support that.
So, based on the project, every studentdevelops a personal learning network.
(25:05):
So, four or five people.
That they believe have wisdom,expertise, experience that's going
to help them with their project.
Somebody that they can, um,be in touch with informally or
formally to advance their project.
So every student has a personal learningnetwork that they've identified.
(25:27):
Which means the, you know,the value of relationships.
in CU's educational model isprobably the highest priority.
And it's so consistent with some of thevalues that we have around learning and
how learning happens, how it happens bestis always in, in the context of community.
(25:50):
And so we do a lot to cultivate, um,both spontaneous as well as intentional.
Moments for people to be inrelationship with one another.
And that's, that's where thebest learning comes from.
So, I mean, I think that at this point,if people are listening to this, at
(26:12):
this point, you're thinking, this isan amazing, beautiful, magical college.
It must cost a hundred-K,twenty-K to attend.
No,
Sylvia, what is, how much, howmuch does this whole thing cost?
I mean, it's high touch, small classes.
You're providing.
Food and childcare.
(26:35):
How, I mean, and then you were talkingabout this population of people who may
not, shouldn't have been able to affordcollege, how there's some, there's an
imbalance here, you know, like how, howmuch is this thing going to cost them?
Uh, it's, uh, about 10, 000 a year.
10, 000 a year and theyhave to do it for six years?
(26:56):
No, most students, it's two years.
Two years?
Maybe two and a half at the most.
To get a bachelor's
degree.
Yeah, because many of them have,they're coming with credits or they
have lived experience that is, um,valuable experience that can be
(27:16):
reviewed through portfolio for credit.
And so we take the experience if somebodywas a caregiver of an elderly parent and
as part of that process had to understandmedicines and all kinds of health
related activities and really can provideevidence of deep learning around health
(27:42):
and well being and, uh, all of that.
They, they may submit a portfolio thatreflects on that learning that provides
evidence of that learning and then theyactually can receive credit for learning.
So, you can't be somebody who'slived in the world and at your 35,
40 years old and you and not havelearned deep skills and knowledge
(28:04):
and so we value that, that knowledge.
And so somebody might come in and theymight have 20 credits from community
college, but they might do portfoliosand give themselves a bump and then
do the major and then do additionalcredits so that it's around two years.
Um, there have been a handfulof mighty people who have
(28:29):
done it in a year in a summer.
And got their bachelor's degree.
It's, it's amazing.
Just, just to describe to folks,these are people who traditional
college might have failed them.
The society, the community in whichthey live in may have failed them.
(28:50):
And that they are stuck in a space, in a,in, in, in a, in a, in a phase of their
lives where they literally are stuck.
They, they don't have away to go and get a degree.
If they could get a degree, theymight've gotten a better job.
(29:11):
You know, better pay or better outcomein, you know, the current, you know, the
job and a career, but they couldn't do it.
They couldn't, theycouldn't have the ability.
They don't have the abilityto go back to school to do it.
Now one could say, well, theycould go to community college
and do it and sort of part time.
And so there are actuallyother opportunities to do
things part time as well.
Right.
But these are schools that are notdesigned to help people like them.
(29:36):
Actually, that's most people, right?
They're not designed to helpmost people's real lives.
They're, you know, they'redesigned for people who are
willing to sacrifice so much.
Of what life really should be, shouldbe for them in order to get that degree.
The sacrifice, the sacrificingsometimes is too much.
Maybe it's in the, in the, in the,you know, um, um, for someone who's,
(30:03):
uh, who has young children, forexample, just couldn't do it, right?
So they're stuck in the part of theface of their life where there's no no
possible forward movement in betteringthemselves, or at least that's how it
is.
And that they can come to CollegeUnbound, first of all, is much,
(30:27):
much, much less expensive.
But second, is that they could do, theycould actually obtain an accredited
4 year bachelor's degree, what'straditionally a 4 year bachelor's degree.
In, in some cases, a year anda bit, but most of the time,
two, two and a half years.
(30:47):
That's incredible.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that degree is accessible becauseof how the, the curricular model
is delivered, that it's relevantto the work that they're doing.
So it's not like, Oh, I have to stopdoing what I'm doing to go to college.
It actually feeds into thework that they're doing.
(31:07):
So many people, even before theygraduate, will be recognized by their
employers and move into other roles.
Um, for some students, they graduateand, um, as soon as they can, show that
diploma, they're promoted, you know,a 15, 000 or 20, 000 bump is, is real.
(31:28):
That's something that can materiallychange the experience of, of students.
And if you can change the, the experienceof a mother who's raising kids on
her own, or a dad who's out therestruggling, or somebody who's in a multi
generational household, you can changethe trajectory of that entire family.
(31:49):
And so that's why CU is committedto removing barriers, um, and as
many barriers as we can so folkscan just do the work that they need
to do, um, to advance their livesand to make change in the world.
And I have to say, There are dayswhen it feels like a really magical
place, especially when you're hangingout with students and the work
(32:13):
behind the scenes to ensure thatwe don't unintentionally replicate
the stuff that's in higher ed.
The traditional things in higher ed isreal work, um, because all of us, whether
we've been higher ed professionalsor community, uh, worked in community
(32:36):
organizations, all of us as a staff andfaculty have been acculturated, socialized
into a different model of education.
Yeah,
and we're committed to learningfrom traditional higher
education, but not replicating it.
And so how we're always in theprocess of becoming, always in the
(33:01):
process of innovating, of askingourselves, why are we doing this?
Uh, is it going to build relationships?
Is it going to advance equity?
Is it, um, you know, replicationjust for the sake of replication?
Is it meeting the needs of our students?
Is the student voice actuallyfundamental to our decision making?
(33:26):
And if it's not, if we answer no to any ofthose things, then we need to take a pause
before we do anything because we don'twant to replicate or to become the very
thing that we're trying to work against.
That's amazing, Sylvia.
I, I was going to ask you, but I thinkyou actually pre answered that question,
which was, you know, if I was, if I'mlistening to this, I'm, I'm an admin,
(33:52):
I'm a dean and an administrator.
I'm someone with the power to change,to make significant impact in my
current institution that is not CU,and maybe we suffer from some of
the things that we had talked about.
Mm hmm.
Maybe I didn't even realizewe were suffering from it
until you talked about it.
(34:12):
We thought those are good things, butnow I realize, oh, hold on a minute.
Um, you know, I, I think thatyou gave people so much hope, but
also a practical real example, amodel, a roadmap to say, Hey, look,
acknowledge some of these thingsthat, that may not be, you know, we
(34:37):
sometimes have metrics in our lives,you know, that, that were given to
us that didn't have a good, theyweren't good metrics to begin with.
And yet, because they were the onesgiven to us, we take that as, you The
effect, and sometimes they're not,and we have to reexamine those things.
(35:00):
And I think all those things thatyou just talked about give people,
um, maybe a starting point, right?
Yeah.
You think, do you believe that,do you believe that there is.
What is your magic wand?
Not magic wand overnight.
(35:21):
I think magic wand overnight doesn't work.
I think that's just, you know, that's justsilly, but magic wand in 30 years, Sylvia,
a 30 year long magic wand, you get to,Do the wand, but it doesn't come true.
It's going to take small parts every dayfor the next 30 years for it to come true.
(35:41):
What does that magic wand lookslike for higher education for you?
Wow.
I love that question.
Um, I think it would look like, um, notthat colleges there'd be, um, more CUs or
colleges would look more like CU, but CU.
(36:02):
The model that CU uses would be, um,already a thing of the past because
we would have actually developed thenext level of innovation that, that,
um, that the basis of CU in, in 10years is in colleges already and that
(36:24):
colleges are creating the next iterationof what it means to meet the needs
of students because it's not static.
The needs of students will change.
Barriers will change and how do weensure that every college, every
community is actually dismantlingthe things that do not serve students
(36:46):
and building the things that do.
And so, I'm looking for what's the nextinnovation that springs out of CU and all
of the CU like institutions or all of theCU like communities of practice within
institutions that then actually have avery different landscape for higher ed.
(37:07):
That it all looks different.
And, um, things like Relationshipand relevance are embedded
fully in every college, everyinstitution across the country.
And that people actually haveaccess, that they're, that they
are more of community, uh, andless set aside on a hill somewhere.
(37:30):
What a beautiful, beautiful vision.
I can't think of a better time to, to endour conversation, but to leave everyone
here listening, think about that, ponder.
And maybe I don't, we don't usually dothis at these conversations, but I think
this is a point for people to think about,well, what, what are some things that
(37:52):
you can do in your community to, if youagree with what Sylvia is saying to, to,
to help that become a reality, becauseI think that is a beautiful, beautiful,
um, sounds like a magical place to be.
And I think that, you know,if people are willing to.
Put in some work intogoing towards that goal.
(38:14):
I think I, I really think that is it's,it's, it's a realistic goal, um, that
one could have, it's not magic wand inthat it's just potion and pixie dust.
I think it's.
I think that you are, you arestarting there and you are doing it.
And I think with, you know, withmore people knowing about this, um,
it could really be a reality andI'm so glad to be in the beginning
(38:39):
of these conversations with you.
Only 14 years in, in, in, in, inestablishment and, but, but the, but some
of the most amazing discoveries today.
I hope that everyone enjoyed this,um, this conversation with Sylvia.
Thank you, Sylvia, so much forbeing, um, sharing your insights.
I, I, I love this and I hope thatwe continue this conversation.
(39:02):
It's been a pleasure.
Take care, Sylvia.
You too.
Coming up next, we'll be chatting withMatthew Street, senior lecturer in
Spanish at the University of Virginia.
Here's a quick preview
and just encourage them to, to startcreating with the language, like you
mentioned, like you mentioned earlier.
(39:23):
You know, I want the studentsto, to be comfortable.
My job there is to kind of gentlypush students towards things and
encourage them to organize on their own.
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