June 11, 2025 • 25 mins
In this episode, Caitlyn and Janet dive into what growing home improvement contractors should consider when choosing a digital marketing agency—especially if you're outgrowing that set-it-and-forget-it vendor relationship. If your business is scaling past the $5M mark and you're looking for a strategic partner (not just a task-taker), this episode will show you exactly what to look for.
They outline:
- The 3 qualities of a growth-focused agency: process, industry expertise, and strategic thinking
- Why you should demand transparency, ownership of outcomes, and shared dashboards
- The importance of advanced tactics like CRO, attribution modeling, and multi-channel campaigns
- What a true culture fit looks like (and why it matters for long-term growth)
- The must-ask questions to vet your next agency partner
They also introduce a free downloadable Agency Scorecard to help you compare potential vendors. This is a must-listen if you’re serious about scaling your business.
Want to find out how we can create a custom digital marketing game plan for your contractor business? Schedule a call with us at fatcatstrategies.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Caitlyn (00:01):
Welcome to Digital Marketing for Contractors.
This podcast is brought to youby Fat Cat Strategies, a
full-service digital marketingagency based in Raleigh, North
Carolina.
We specialize in helping homeimprovement contractors just
like you grow their businesses.
Janet (00:17):
Today, you're listening to a series called Build, Grow,
Dominate, marketing strategiesfor every stage of your home
improvement business.
Every Wednesday, we take a deepdive into the lessons that
we've learned from supportingsome amazing business owners.
in the home improvementindustry.
Caitlyn (00:34):
In part one, we'll cover the essentials from
startup to your first fivemillion.
In part two, we're shiftinggears to focus on what it takes
to scale your business to asuccessful exit and or how to
dominate your market.
Now let's get into it.
Welcome back to DigitalMarketing for Contractors.
I'm Caitlin.
And I am Janet.
(00:54):
So today, if you're a homeimprovement contractor and
you've outgrown that set it andforget it marketing vendor or
in-house marketing support, nowyou are looking for a strategic
partner that is trulyunderstanding where your
business is headed and how tohelp you get there faster.
That's what today's episode isabout.
(01:14):
Janet, remind us, recap us.
Janet (01:17):
Yeah, so in an earlier episode of this podcast where we
had a series of content allaimed at what we call that level
one contractor.
You're in the first earlyyears.
You're wearing a lot of hats.
You're kind of grassroots,bootstrapping everything.
You probably have, you know,you've got some vendors in place
(01:38):
there.
You've got some in-housepeople.
You might have somefreelancers.
They're helping you with yourdigital marketing.
Right.
Right.
If you're already past thatfirst $5 million, maybe you're
(02:12):
bumping up against 10, and youknow this.
If you're listening to this andyou've already hit those
revenue numbers, you know youcan't just set it and forget it,
and you know your vendorscan't.
If you are one of those leveltwo contractors where you have
solved all of those sort ofbasic foundational problems,
you've got some call centerpeople, you've probably got a
(02:35):
sales manager, you may or maynot have a showroom.
You've solved a bunch ofproblems.
problems already now whatyou're trying to do is you are
in that growth and scale phaseand you're trying to dial things
in a little bit and refine themtoday what we're talking about
is how to choose the rightdigital marketing agency for
(02:55):
where you are now not where youwere when you just started up
but where you are now yourbusiness is different and so
your agency needs to match whereyou are so Caitlin if we've got
listeners driving in theirtrucks.
I always like to picture peopledriving in their truck.
Pat yourself on the back.
You've done so much hard workto get here.
(03:17):
If you're thinking aboutswitching agencies or maybe
hiring one for the first time,maybe what you have now is a
combination of some localfreelancers, your sister's son.
You've been listening to maybesome of these episodes and
trying to do it yourself.
Your office manager's beendoing some stuff.
Or maybe you've got an agencypartner in place that It's
(03:39):
really low cost, but doesn'tspecialize in the home
improvement industry.
You've got something going onand you've gotten to where you
are now, but you need to shiftthings up to scale beyond.
So with that in mind, for ourlisteners, Caitlin, what should
they be looking for when they'relooking for an agency partner
(04:01):
to help them really scale?
Caitlyn (04:03):
Yeah, exactly.
So I think there's severalqualities that it's more than
just getting getting the leads.
It's about getting betterleads.
And I think a few of thosequalities, I guess that is the
word, that you should be lookingfor within an agency is process
is one of the first things.
They're growth-focusedagencies.
They have documented, provenprocess.
(04:25):
They're not just winging itevery time.
So they've got a proven processthat works.
They have proof that they'veworked with other contractors
just like yours, and they aregrowing those Can I
Janet (04:42):
jump in here?
that they've helped a homeimprovement agency really scale.
(05:04):
Exactly.
Because there's a lot ofcompanies out there that are
like, oh yeah, we work withroofers.
Exactly.
But have they really helpedthem scale to the point where
they can sell and exit?
And that's the proven
Caitlyn (05:16):
process there that, I mean, I think that's fantastic.
I know we surely share stats ofhow we've helped our home
improvement contractors scalewhen we, you know, are meeting
with prospects as well.
so of course that you've helpedthem scale in terms of the
process you have with theseplaybooks that work for the
(05:40):
second talking point is yourindustry.
So they are an expert in thisvertical.
They specialize in homeimprovement.
They know and understand thecustomer journey.
They understand seasonaltrends.
They understand regionaldynamics.
It's not just this one sizefits all methodology.
(06:01):
If you are in California,you've got a different strategy
than if you're trying to sellbaths in South Carolina.
And that agency knows how toadapt to that.
I think the last thing that youreally need to look for as
you're looking for an agencythat's trying to help you grow
is they're strategicallythinking.
(06:21):
They can challenge yourassumptions and they can help
you plan quarters ahead, notjust months ahead, not just
weeks ahead.
They don't just respond totasks.
They are truly building out along-term strategy and they know
what to expect.
It's just not a quick tweak.
Janet (06:41):
I love that.
I love when you're saying thatYes, yes.
Why would we buy, like, whywould we set ourselves up for
(07:19):
failure?
Exactly.
Right.
So I'm going to recap Caitlin'sadvice here.
So if you are, if you'relooking, you're already
successful and now you're reallytrying to hit that next level
and you're looking for adifferent agency partner, what
you need to look for.
Do they have a process?
Unknown (07:38):
Yeah.
Janet (07:38):
Can they explain to you what their process is?
Do they have expertise in yourvertical?
Are they really dialed into thehome improvement industry and
they know about the customerjourney, seasonal trends, et
cetera?
And are they strategic thinkersthat are going to challenge you
and maybe say no to yousometimes?
Like, no, that's not a goodidea.
And here's why we think it'snot a good idea, but here's
(07:58):
something else to think about.
So process, expertise, andstrategic.
That's what you need to belooking
Caitlyn (08:04):
for.
And I think it's safe to say,like, if you're not willing to
get that feedback from youragency and be challenged
Janet (08:13):
Then stick with the vendors that you have.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Because you'll save money andit'll be a shorter conversation
and they'll take less of yourtime.
And you probably won't grow.
And you know, you've gotten towhere you are now and you can
just keep maintaining.
Rinse and repeat what you'redoing now.
Caitlyn (08:29):
Yeah.
Janet (08:29):
Not to
Caitlyn (08:29):
be so sassy, but that is the truth.
I mean, like, it's hard and wedebate that too as account
managers.
Like, do we push back if aclient does not agree with what
we're thinking?
And I think you canrespectfully push back and let
them know, well, here's theopportunity you're going to
miss.
Right.
So,
Janet (08:46):
um, just a couple of things to think about.
Okay.
So those are characteristics ofan agency that you could look
for.
Caitlin, what are some otherkind of technical things that
business owners can be thinkingabout when they're, when they're
thinking about scaling?
What are like some, some KPIsfor them to track?
What are some buzzwords?
(09:07):
Yeah.
Caitlyn (09:07):
Buzzwords for sure.
And, and, you know, we'vetalked about this before.
You can get lost in thebuzzwords.
There are some agencies, allthey use are buzzwords.
I think there's benefit tothat, especially as you are
scaling.
So if you've listened to partone and you're like, wow, those
ladies are giving me whiplashwhen we're like, hey, buzzwords,
(09:28):
don't worry about buzzwords.
If you're a smaller businessright now, don't worry about the
buzzwords.
Just get SEO and PPC up andrunning.
Get your website made.
Get the basics in place.
But now that you're advanced,those buzzwords actually do
matter.
Things like conversion rateoptimization.
You may hear it's CRO.
(09:49):
You should be having conversionrate optimization conversations
for better lead quality andlower acquisition cost.
That sounds glorious.
Janet (09:59):
Yeah, that is very buzzy.
I'm going to translate it.
So conversion rate optimizationand better lead quality, what
that means is you're squeezingmore leads out of your existing
marketing spend and the leadsthat you're are pulling out of
them, either more or the actualnumber could go down, but the
quality could go up.
(10:20):
And we've seen that happen,where if you have higher quality
leads coming out of yourmarketing campaigns, you're
having better appointments andhigher closing sales for a
higher ticket price.
So conversion optimization,conversion rate optimization can
take a couple of differentflavors.
But you know, at this stage ofyour business, you're beyond the
(10:41):
basics.
Now you're looking to dialthings in.
And CRO is something you shouldbe thinking about and talking
about what What's the next one?
Caitlyn (10:48):
The next one, we'll call it multi-channel campaigns.
That's where you are takingmeta.
Google and email and you'rereally fully building out.
Or video pre-roll.
Video pre-roll and you'rereally building out a full
integrated campaign usingmultiple channels.
(11:09):
Google ads, meta ads, email.
I would add direct mail intothat.
Direct mail.
There's a lot of parts andpieces.
It's not just a let's turn onGoogle ads and move on.
You're throwing in multiple,multiple channels that you can
run multiple ads to And you'vegot a plan where you can follow
(11:29):
up with those leads as well.
Janet (11:30):
So I think the key word there is integration.
Integration.
overseeing all of that.
Caitlyn (11:44):
Absolutely.
Another thing that I think issuper important, our level ones,
we do encourage this, but it'snot necessary.
Level twos, it's a no-brainer.
You've got to have attributionmodels.
You have to be able to knowwhere your leads came from.
I know you want to know wherethey came from.
(12:06):
You want to know if Google adsare working.
You want to know if meta adsare working.
You want to know if yourwebsite is converting.
You've got to SEO in place, etcetera.
So you want attribution models.
You want to have that calltracking, which with the call
tracking, you can see wherethose leads are coming from.
And then the sugar on top, thecherry on top of all of that is
(12:28):
that that information is thenpumped into your CRM.
So you know that Mrs.
Jones came from a Google Adscampaign that you were running,
And this is the keyword that sheconverted on.
Um, and you've
Janet (12:45):
got all that information and the landing page she
converted on with, you know, aseasonal offer on it.
So now you've got data about apromotional offer, a campaign.
Yes.
All of that.
I always like to add this whenwe talk about attribution.
I know we were, this wholepodcast is about digital
marketing, but attribution canbe used with offline.
Caitlyn (13:06):
Yeah.
Janet (13:06):
If you have a wrapped truck, if you have, um, yard
signs or if you're doing flyersin a certain neighborhood if you
have you know you've sponsoredyour local baseball team and
your phone number is on the backof the jersey give your agency
Give your agency a heads upbecause they can give you a
(13:27):
vanity number that is tracked.
Exactly.
So if your phone number's onthe back of that baseball jersey
and you worked with your agencybefore you got the thing
printed and it's a trackednumber, you can see every single
phone call from that localmarketing effort.
So the attribution models,they're not just digital.
Caitlyn (13:51):
No.
No, that's a great point.
And it should integrate withthat word that we just are using
again, it should integrate withyour CRM.
You're getting more and moreinformation.
So a good growth-focused agencyis going to ask you things
along the lines of what yourclose rate is.
They're going to talk to youabout those customer acquisition
(14:15):
costs.
They're going to talk to youabout cost per lead.
They're going to report ontheir cost per lead.
And they're going to report onreturn on ad spend.
If they're not, you are notwith the right agent who is
helping you grow.
Janet, let's talk a little bitabout like transparency and
accountability and what thatlooks like with a growing, you
know, partnership.
Janet (14:36):
Yeah, I mean, what we've seen is if you're with the wrong
partner, maybe, you know, it'ssomebody that you connected with
in those early days and they Imean, to be fair, maybe they
just don't understand thecomplexities of a more
sophisticated organization.
They are going to be leaning onwhat we call this vanity
metrics.
They're going to send you acanned report, probably via
(14:59):
email, with a bunch of numberson them and a bunch of charts.
And at the end of the day,those numbers and charts really
don't mean that much to you.
They don't even explain to youwhat's in that.
Yeah, because they're trying tohide behind it.
So, you know, a good partner isgoing to be transparent about
they're going to be talking toyou about metrics like cost per
(15:22):
lead and how they compare acrossdifferent channels and what
some of your goals are to getyour cost per lead down to a
certain amount.
We end up talking to ourclients a lot about total
percent of revenue on marketing.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
It all comes back to that onenumber.
Of everything you sold...
(15:42):
how many pennies of each dollardid you end up having to spend
on marketing to generate thatlead, to generate that sale?
So all of these lower metricsend up getting rolled up into
that one uber metric that tellsyou whether or not you are on
track or not.
So if your agency is willing tohave those conversations with
(16:05):
you on your monthly strategycalls, where they're really
drilling into numbers that meansomething to you and what your
goals are, Wow.
Huge.
And they're doing that with 40other customers this month.
(16:47):
It's not personalized.
Yeah, it might be time for youto look for a partner that
really wants to drill into yourbusiness and personalize the
service.
And don't think that
Caitlyn (17:00):
that's going to take extra time.
I mean, because with the rightagency, I mean, sure, you're
probably sitting there like,okay, that email report, that's
great.
That's one less thing on mylist of things that I have to
do.
I may not even open that reportand look at it.
But if you can give your agencyan hour for a month, they're
going to give you Tenfold back,back in terms of the quality of
(17:26):
the leads, et cetera.
If you're sitting around withyour, like sitting on your
hands, okay, getting that emailreport and not doing anything,
not challenging them, notquestioning anything, your
business, I promise you has notgrown and will not grow.
Um, I think it's important tosay that a great agency is going
to bring you both the problemand the solution before you even
(17:48):
know it's an issue.
Yes.
You can't set aside time forthat.
I don't know.
I don't even know why you'rereally investing in an agency.
And that's just me, again,being as honest as I can be.
I mean, we're going through ourreports with our clients.
And not only have wehighlighted the bad, but we've
also highlighted the good.
And then we're going to tellyou what we're going to do about
(18:09):
it.
Right.
That is outlined in everyreport.
And I'm telling you, some ofthese meetings that we have with
our clients, like, sure, theycould be an hour.
And that's because it's atwo-way conversation.
It could be a 30-minutemeeting.
And the client is like, yep, aapproved, sounds good, thank
you.
Just give your agency the timeif you're gonna invest in them.
Janet (18:28):
Yeah, so another thing that you can think about if you
are shopping for a new agency isthe culture fit and a long-term
mindset.
So this may sound kind ofwoo-woo and candles and incense,
but culture does matter.
If they are willing to adapt tothe input that you give them,
(18:51):
do they have a growth mindset?
Do they have a culture of beingyour partner?
Or is their culture like...
you know, are they in somegigantic corporation that
they've got their own numbers tomeet and they, they can only
meet with you 15 minutes everytwo weeks and they've got a
rigid set of reports thatthey're going to go over and
(19:12):
there's no customization there.
I mean, that's sort of aculture and a style and a
transparency altogether, but youknow, looking for a good
culture fit, I think is part ofthe search.
Caitlyn (19:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I was on a call with aprospect a week or so ago and I
loved the this question.
I knew in my bones, the momenthe asked me this question, I was
like, okay, that's a good fitfor us because he asked me how
many new clients are you tryingto take on between now and the
end of the year?
(19:44):
Like he cared that he wasn'tjust going to be another number
in the system.
I just like, that's important.
And if that's important to you,ask questions
Janet (19:55):
like that.
Speaker 02 (19:56):
Um,
Janet (19:56):
you know what that question shows me as well is
that he is He's been around theblock.
And he's thinking biggerpicture.
He's not just thinking abouthimself, but he's thinking
about...
you know, our business or thebusiness of all of his vendors
and wants to know, like, am I,if I, if they take me on as a
client, are they alreadystretched to their limits or,
(20:21):
you know, are they desperate?
Yeah, you know, exactly.
And so either ends of thosespectrum is not good.
And I think the mark, the markof a really successful business
owner is, is you want yourvendors to be successful too
Caitlyn (20:36):
oh my gosh
Janet (20:36):
yeah because if it's win-win I mean I'm it's all it
sounds fairly obvious but it'sit literally is win for
everybody if you're winning butyour vendor is losing even if
you love that vendor they're notgoing to be in business very
long no if your vendor iswinning but you're losing you're
going to end up firing them ifit's a good business fit and a
(20:58):
good culture fit for both of youand you know you're getting
success and return on investmentout of it, and it's a good
business and culture fit foryour vendor, then that's a
relationship that's a verysustainable relationship that
can last for a long time.
Yes.
So Caitlin, what are some keyquestions that our listeners can
(21:21):
ask prospective agencies?
Caitlyn (21:23):
Yeah, exactly.
And we'll make sure, I mean,all of these podcasts have the
transcript, but we'll make surethese questions are in the show
notes as well.
So when you're vetting anagency, here are a few questions
to ask.
How do you tailor strategies togrowing companies like ours?
So how do you tailorstrategies?
Again, how do you make surethat your strategies that you're
(21:45):
presenting to us are going toalign with our growth goals
would be another way to askthat.
Can you show us successfulcampaigns for similar
businesses?
Duh, no brainer.
How do you measure successbeyond lead volume?
And then what tools are youusing to track and report?
(22:06):
I think that's prettyopen-ended, but it's super
critical to make sure you'reasking those.
Janet (22:13):
Yeah.
I love it.
Yeah.
Yeah, I
Caitlyn (22:45):
think that's a really important note.
And we're going to say itagain, and we're super
passionate about it.
You know, not to brag, but wehave, you know, taken a lot of
companies from starting $1million to $1 million.
Over 20, yeah.
Janet (23:31):
It's almost like you're in a car together, and you're
going on a journey together, andyour vendor is right there, and
you're having conversationsabout where are we going, how
are we going to get there.
But they got the map.
Caitlyn (23:41):
Yeah,
Janet (23:41):
and you're both kind of sharing the map.
Caitlyn (23:43):
Yeah, they got the map.
So super excited.
We have a free agency scorecardto give you guys.
It's going to be in our shownotes to download.
I would totally encourage youto check it out.
It's got a lot of the stats, Iguess– It's not stats, but the
tips, tricks.
Tips, tricks, questions to ask.
(24:04):
That we mentioned.
And you can compare threeagencies.
Because like our own, you know,your own prospects.
Yeah, they're usually gettingmultiple quotes.
Yeah, you're getting multiplequotes.
We know it.
We know it.
We know when
Janet (24:16):
you call us or you're talking to two other agencies.
So
Caitlyn (24:18):
use that free agency scorecard and get a quote from
us and then go get a quote fromtwo others.
And compare.
Pick the one that's best foryou.
Janet (24:25):
Come on
Caitlyn (24:25):
home.
Janet (24:26):
Okay, so next week we are talking about manufacturing.
I'm excited.
leads I think this one's hugeyeah so what they are why they
matter how to use them in yourstrategy for maximum impact it's
all about those leads that youget from the manufacturer that's
that's making the products thatyou're installing so if that's
(24:47):
next week so join us next weekif you enjoyed this episode
please don't forget to subscribeand leave us a review and we'd
love it if you'd tell one ofyour peers maybe a contractor on
the rise somebody just gettingtheir business off the ground
Thanks a lot.
Thanks, y'all.
Don (25:29):
Digital marketing for contractors is created by fat
cat strategies.
For more information, visitfatcatstrategies.com.
Welcome to Digital Marketing for Contractors.
This podcast is brought to youby Fat Cat Strategies, a
full-service digital marketingagency based in Raleigh, North
Carolina.
We specialize in helping homeimprovement contractors just
like you grow their businesses.
Janet (00:17):
Today, you're listening to a series called Build, Grow,
Dominate, marketing strategiesfor every stage of your home
improvement business.
Every Wednesday, we take a deepdive into the lessons that
we've learned from supportingsome amazing business owners.
in the home improvementindustry.
Caitlyn (00:34):
In part one, we'll cover the essentials from
startup to your first fivemillion.
In part two, we're shiftinggears to focus on what it takes
to scale your business to asuccessful exit and or how to
dominate your market.
Now let's get into it.
Welcome back to DigitalMarketing for Contractors.
I'm Caitlin.
And I am Janet.
(00:54):
So today, if you're a homeimprovement contractor and
you've outgrown that set it andforget it marketing vendor or
in-house marketing support, nowyou are looking for a strategic
partner that is trulyunderstanding where your
business is headed and how tohelp you get there faster.
That's what today's episode isabout.
(01:14):
Janet, remind us, recap us.
Janet (01:17):
Yeah, so in an earlier episode of this podcast where we
had a series of content allaimed at what we call that level
one contractor.
You're in the first earlyyears.
You're wearing a lot of hats.
You're kind of grassroots,bootstrapping everything.
You probably have, you know,you've got some vendors in place
(01:38):
there.
You've got some in-housepeople.
You might have somefreelancers.
They're helping you with yourdigital marketing.
Right.
Right.
If you're already past thatfirst $5 million, maybe you're
(02:12):
bumping up against 10, and youknow this.
If you're listening to this andyou've already hit those
revenue numbers, you know youcan't just set it and forget it,
and you know your vendorscan't.
If you are one of those leveltwo contractors where you have
solved all of those sort ofbasic foundational problems,
you've got some call centerpeople, you've probably got a
(02:35):
sales manager, you may or maynot have a showroom.
You've solved a bunch ofproblems.
problems already now whatyou're trying to do is you are
in that growth and scale phaseand you're trying to dial things
in a little bit and refine themtoday what we're talking about
is how to choose the rightdigital marketing agency for
(02:55):
where you are now not where youwere when you just started up
but where you are now yourbusiness is different and so
your agency needs to match whereyou are so Caitlin if we've got
listeners driving in theirtrucks.
I always like to picture peopledriving in their truck.
Pat yourself on the back.
You've done so much hard workto get here.
(03:17):
If you're thinking aboutswitching agencies or maybe
hiring one for the first time,maybe what you have now is a
combination of some localfreelancers, your sister's son.
You've been listening to maybesome of these episodes and
trying to do it yourself.
Your office manager's beendoing some stuff.
Or maybe you've got an agencypartner in place that It's
(03:39):
really low cost, but doesn'tspecialize in the home
improvement industry.
You've got something going onand you've gotten to where you
are now, but you need to shiftthings up to scale beyond.
So with that in mind, for ourlisteners, Caitlin, what should
they be looking for when they'relooking for an agency partner
(04:01):
to help them really scale?
Caitlyn (04:03):
Yeah, exactly.
So I think there's severalqualities that it's more than
just getting getting the leads.
It's about getting betterleads.
And I think a few of thosequalities, I guess that is the
word, that you should be lookingfor within an agency is process
is one of the first things.
They're growth-focusedagencies.
They have documented, provenprocess.
(04:25):
They're not just winging itevery time.
So they've got a proven processthat works.
They have proof that they'veworked with other contractors
just like yours, and they aregrowing those Can I
Janet (04:42):
jump in here?
that they've helped a homeimprovement agency really scale.
(05:04):
Exactly.
Because there's a lot ofcompanies out there that are
like, oh yeah, we work withroofers.
Exactly.
But have they really helpedthem scale to the point where
they can sell and exit?
And that's the proven
Caitlyn (05:16):
process there that, I mean, I think that's fantastic.
I know we surely share stats ofhow we've helped our home
improvement contractors scalewhen we, you know, are meeting
with prospects as well.
so of course that you've helpedthem scale in terms of the
process you have with theseplaybooks that work for the
(05:40):
second talking point is yourindustry.
So they are an expert in thisvertical.
They specialize in homeimprovement.
They know and understand thecustomer journey.
They understand seasonaltrends.
They understand regionaldynamics.
It's not just this one sizefits all methodology.
(06:01):
If you are in California,you've got a different strategy
than if you're trying to sellbaths in South Carolina.
And that agency knows how toadapt to that.
I think the last thing that youreally need to look for as
you're looking for an agencythat's trying to help you grow
is they're strategicallythinking.
(06:21):
They can challenge yourassumptions and they can help
you plan quarters ahead, notjust months ahead, not just
weeks ahead.
They don't just respond totasks.
They are truly building out along-term strategy and they know
what to expect.
It's just not a quick tweak.
Janet (06:41):
I love that.
I love when you're saying thatYes, yes.
Why would we buy, like, whywould we set ourselves up for
(07:19):
failure?
Exactly.
Right.
So I'm going to recap Caitlin'sadvice here.
So if you are, if you'relooking, you're already
successful and now you're reallytrying to hit that next level
and you're looking for adifferent agency partner, what
you need to look for.
Do they have a process?
Unknown (07:38):
Yeah.
Janet (07:38):
Can they explain to you what their process is?
Do they have expertise in yourvertical?
Are they really dialed into thehome improvement industry and
they know about the customerjourney, seasonal trends, et
cetera?
And are they strategic thinkersthat are going to challenge you
and maybe say no to yousometimes?
Like, no, that's not a goodidea.
And here's why we think it'snot a good idea, but here's
(07:58):
something else to think about.
So process, expertise, andstrategic.
That's what you need to belooking
Caitlyn (08:04):
for.
And I think it's safe to say,like, if you're not willing to
get that feedback from youragency and be challenged
Janet (08:13):
Then stick with the vendors that you have.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Because you'll save money andit'll be a shorter conversation
and they'll take less of yourtime.
And you probably won't grow.
And you know, you've gotten towhere you are now and you can
just keep maintaining.
Rinse and repeat what you'redoing now.
Caitlyn (08:29):
Yeah.
Janet (08:29):
Not to
Caitlyn (08:29):
be so sassy, but that is the truth.
I mean, like, it's hard and wedebate that too as account
managers.
Like, do we push back if aclient does not agree with what
we're thinking?
And I think you canrespectfully push back and let
them know, well, here's theopportunity you're going to
miss.
Right.
So,
Janet (08:46):
um, just a couple of things to think about.
Okay.
So those are characteristics ofan agency that you could look
for.
Caitlin, what are some otherkind of technical things that
business owners can be thinkingabout when they're, when they're
thinking about scaling?
What are like some, some KPIsfor them to track?
What are some buzzwords?
(09:07):
Yeah.
Caitlyn (09:07):
Buzzwords for sure.
And, and, you know, we'vetalked about this before.
You can get lost in thebuzzwords.
There are some agencies, allthey use are buzzwords.
I think there's benefit tothat, especially as you are
scaling.
So if you've listened to partone and you're like, wow, those
ladies are giving me whiplashwhen we're like, hey, buzzwords,
(09:28):
don't worry about buzzwords.
If you're a smaller businessright now, don't worry about the
buzzwords.
Just get SEO and PPC up andrunning.
Get your website made.
Get the basics in place.
But now that you're advanced,those buzzwords actually do
matter.
Things like conversion rateoptimization.
You may hear it's CRO.
(09:49):
You should be having conversionrate optimization conversations
for better lead quality andlower acquisition cost.
That sounds glorious.
Janet (09:59):
Yeah, that is very buzzy.
I'm going to translate it.
So conversion rate optimizationand better lead quality, what
that means is you're squeezingmore leads out of your existing
marketing spend and the leadsthat you're are pulling out of
them, either more or the actualnumber could go down, but the
quality could go up.
(10:20):
And we've seen that happen,where if you have higher quality
leads coming out of yourmarketing campaigns, you're
having better appointments andhigher closing sales for a
higher ticket price.
So conversion optimization,conversion rate optimization can
take a couple of differentflavors.
But you know, at this stage ofyour business, you're beyond the
(10:41):
basics.
Now you're looking to dialthings in.
And CRO is something you shouldbe thinking about and talking
about what What's the next one?
Caitlyn (10:48):
The next one, we'll call it multi-channel campaigns.
That's where you are takingmeta.
Google and email and you'rereally fully building out.
Or video pre-roll.
Video pre-roll and you'rereally building out a full
integrated campaign usingmultiple channels.
(11:09):
Google ads, meta ads, email.
I would add direct mail intothat.
Direct mail.
There's a lot of parts andpieces.
It's not just a let's turn onGoogle ads and move on.
You're throwing in multiple,multiple channels that you can
run multiple ads to And you'vegot a plan where you can follow
(11:29):
up with those leads as well.
Janet (11:30):
So I think the key word there is integration.
Integration.
overseeing all of that.
Caitlyn (11:44):
Absolutely.
Another thing that I think issuper important, our level ones,
we do encourage this, but it'snot necessary.
Level twos, it's a no-brainer.
You've got to have attributionmodels.
You have to be able to knowwhere your leads came from.
I know you want to know wherethey came from.
(12:06):
You want to know if Google adsare working.
You want to know if meta adsare working.
You want to know if yourwebsite is converting.
You've got to SEO in place, etcetera.
So you want attribution models.
You want to have that calltracking, which with the call
tracking, you can see wherethose leads are coming from.
And then the sugar on top, thecherry on top of all of that is
(12:28):
that that information is thenpumped into your CRM.
So you know that Mrs.
Jones came from a Google Adscampaign that you were running,
And this is the keyword that sheconverted on.
Um, and you've
Janet (12:45):
got all that information and the landing page she
converted on with, you know, aseasonal offer on it.
So now you've got data about apromotional offer, a campaign.
Yes.
All of that.
I always like to add this whenwe talk about attribution.
I know we were, this wholepodcast is about digital
marketing, but attribution canbe used with offline.
Caitlyn (13:06):
Yeah.
Janet (13:06):
If you have a wrapped truck, if you have, um, yard
signs or if you're doing flyersin a certain neighborhood if you
have you know you've sponsoredyour local baseball team and
your phone number is on the backof the jersey give your agency
Give your agency a heads upbecause they can give you a
(13:27):
vanity number that is tracked.
Exactly.
So if your phone number's onthe back of that baseball jersey
and you worked with your agencybefore you got the thing
printed and it's a trackednumber, you can see every single
phone call from that localmarketing effort.
So the attribution models,they're not just digital.
Caitlyn (13:51):
No.
No, that's a great point.
And it should integrate withthat word that we just are using
again, it should integrate withyour CRM.
You're getting more and moreinformation.
So a good growth-focused agencyis going to ask you things
along the lines of what yourclose rate is.
They're going to talk to youabout those customer acquisition
(14:15):
costs.
They're going to talk to youabout cost per lead.
They're going to report ontheir cost per lead.
And they're going to report onreturn on ad spend.
If they're not, you are notwith the right agent who is
helping you grow.
Janet, let's talk a little bitabout like transparency and
accountability and what thatlooks like with a growing, you
know, partnership.
Janet (14:36):
Yeah, I mean, what we've seen is if you're with the wrong
partner, maybe, you know, it'ssomebody that you connected with
in those early days and they Imean, to be fair, maybe they
just don't understand thecomplexities of a more
sophisticated organization.
They are going to be leaning onwhat we call this vanity
metrics.
They're going to send you acanned report, probably via
(14:59):
email, with a bunch of numberson them and a bunch of charts.
And at the end of the day,those numbers and charts really
don't mean that much to you.
They don't even explain to youwhat's in that.
Yeah, because they're trying tohide behind it.
So, you know, a good partner isgoing to be transparent about
they're going to be talking toyou about metrics like cost per
(15:22):
lead and how they compare acrossdifferent channels and what
some of your goals are to getyour cost per lead down to a
certain amount.
We end up talking to ourclients a lot about total
percent of revenue on marketing.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
It all comes back to that onenumber.
Of everything you sold...
(15:42):
how many pennies of each dollardid you end up having to spend
on marketing to generate thatlead, to generate that sale?
So all of these lower metricsend up getting rolled up into
that one uber metric that tellsyou whether or not you are on
track or not.
So if your agency is willing tohave those conversations with
(16:05):
you on your monthly strategycalls, where they're really
drilling into numbers that meansomething to you and what your
goals are, Wow.
Huge.
And they're doing that with 40other customers this month.
(16:47):
It's not personalized.
Yeah, it might be time for youto look for a partner that
really wants to drill into yourbusiness and personalize the
service.
And don't think that
Caitlyn (17:00):
that's going to take extra time.
I mean, because with the rightagency, I mean, sure, you're
probably sitting there like,okay, that email report, that's
great.
That's one less thing on mylist of things that I have to
do.
I may not even open that reportand look at it.
But if you can give your agencyan hour for a month, they're
going to give you Tenfold back,back in terms of the quality of
(17:26):
the leads, et cetera.
If you're sitting around withyour, like sitting on your
hands, okay, getting that emailreport and not doing anything,
not challenging them, notquestioning anything, your
business, I promise you has notgrown and will not grow.
Um, I think it's important tosay that a great agency is going
to bring you both the problemand the solution before you even
(17:48):
know it's an issue.
Yes.
You can't set aside time forthat.
I don't know.
I don't even know why you'rereally investing in an agency.
And that's just me, again,being as honest as I can be.
I mean, we're going through ourreports with our clients.
And not only have wehighlighted the bad, but we've
also highlighted the good.
And then we're going to tellyou what we're going to do about
(18:09):
it.
Right.
That is outlined in everyreport.
And I'm telling you, some ofthese meetings that we have with
our clients, like, sure, theycould be an hour.
And that's because it's atwo-way conversation.
It could be a 30-minutemeeting.
And the client is like, yep, aapproved, sounds good, thank
you.
Just give your agency the timeif you're gonna invest in them.
Janet (18:28):
Yeah, so another thing that you can think about if you
are shopping for a new agency isthe culture fit and a long-term
mindset.
So this may sound kind ofwoo-woo and candles and incense,
but culture does matter.
If they are willing to adapt tothe input that you give them,
(18:51):
do they have a growth mindset?
Do they have a culture of beingyour partner?
Or is their culture like...
you know, are they in somegigantic corporation that
they've got their own numbers tomeet and they, they can only
meet with you 15 minutes everytwo weeks and they've got a
rigid set of reports thatthey're going to go over and
(19:12):
there's no customization there.
I mean, that's sort of aculture and a style and a
transparency altogether, but youknow, looking for a good
culture fit, I think is part ofthe search.
Caitlyn (19:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I was on a call with aprospect a week or so ago and I
loved the this question.
I knew in my bones, the momenthe asked me this question, I was
like, okay, that's a good fitfor us because he asked me how
many new clients are you tryingto take on between now and the
end of the year?
(19:44):
Like he cared that he wasn'tjust going to be another number
in the system.
I just like, that's important.
And if that's important to you,ask questions
Janet (19:55):
like that.
Speaker 02 (19:56):
Um,
Janet (19:56):
you know what that question shows me as well is
that he is He's been around theblock.
And he's thinking biggerpicture.
He's not just thinking abouthimself, but he's thinking
about...
you know, our business or thebusiness of all of his vendors
and wants to know, like, am I,if I, if they take me on as a
client, are they alreadystretched to their limits or,
(20:21):
you know, are they desperate?
Yeah, you know, exactly.
And so either ends of thosespectrum is not good.
And I think the mark, the markof a really successful business
owner is, is you want yourvendors to be successful too
Caitlyn (20:36):
oh my gosh
Janet (20:36):
yeah because if it's win-win I mean I'm it's all it
sounds fairly obvious but it'sit literally is win for
everybody if you're winning butyour vendor is losing even if
you love that vendor they're notgoing to be in business very
long no if your vendor iswinning but you're losing you're
going to end up firing them ifit's a good business fit and a
(20:58):
good culture fit for both of youand you know you're getting
success and return on investmentout of it, and it's a good
business and culture fit foryour vendor, then that's a
relationship that's a verysustainable relationship that
can last for a long time.
Yes.
So Caitlin, what are some keyquestions that our listeners can
(21:21):
ask prospective agencies?
Caitlyn (21:23):
Yeah, exactly.
And we'll make sure, I mean,all of these podcasts have the
transcript, but we'll make surethese questions are in the show
notes as well.
So when you're vetting anagency, here are a few questions
to ask.
How do you tailor strategies togrowing companies like ours?
So how do you tailorstrategies?
Again, how do you make surethat your strategies that you're
(21:45):
presenting to us are going toalign with our growth goals
would be another way to askthat.
Can you show us successfulcampaigns for similar
businesses?
Duh, no brainer.
How do you measure successbeyond lead volume?
And then what tools are youusing to track and report?
(22:06):
I think that's prettyopen-ended, but it's super
critical to make sure you'reasking those.
Janet (22:13):
Yeah.
I love it.
Yeah.
Yeah, I
Caitlyn (22:45):
think that's a really important note.
And we're going to say itagain, and we're super
passionate about it.
You know, not to brag, but wehave, you know, taken a lot of
companies from starting $1million to $1 million.
Over 20, yeah.
Janet (23:31):
It's almost like you're in a car together, and you're
going on a journey together, andyour vendor is right there, and
you're having conversationsabout where are we going, how
are we going to get there.
But they got the map.
Caitlyn (23:41):
Yeah,
Janet (23:41):
and you're both kind of sharing the map.
Caitlyn (23:43):
Yeah, they got the map.
So super excited.
We have a free agency scorecardto give you guys.
It's going to be in our shownotes to download.
I would totally encourage youto check it out.
It's got a lot of the stats, Iguess– It's not stats, but the
tips, tricks.
Tips, tricks, questions to ask.
(24:04):
That we mentioned.
And you can compare threeagencies.
Because like our own, you know,your own prospects.
Yeah, they're usually gettingmultiple quotes.
Yeah, you're getting multiplequotes.
We know it.
We know it.
We know when
Janet (24:16):
you call us or you're talking to two other agencies.
So
Caitlyn (24:18):
use that free agency scorecard and get a quote from
us and then go get a quote fromtwo others.
And compare.
Pick the one that's best foryou.
Janet (24:25):
Come on
Caitlyn (24:25):
home.
Janet (24:26):
Okay, so next week we are talking about manufacturing.
I'm excited.
leads I think this one's hugeyeah so what they are why they
matter how to use them in yourstrategy for maximum impact it's
all about those leads that youget from the manufacturer that's
that's making the products thatyou're installing so if that's
(24:47):
next week so join us next weekif you enjoyed this episode
please don't forget to subscribeand leave us a review and we'd
love it if you'd tell one ofyour peers maybe a contractor on
the rise somebody just gettingtheir business off the ground
Thanks a lot.
Thanks, y'all.
Don (25:29):
Digital marketing for contractors is created by fat
cat strategies.
For more information, visitfatcatstrategies.com.
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