September 17, 2025 • 36 mins
In this special summer roundup episode, Janet and Caitlyn break down the latest news and research shaping the home improvement and remodeling industry. From builder confidence reports and Harvard’s remodeling forecasts to surveys from Qualified Remodeler, AIA, and Houzz, we connect the dots on what these shifts mean for your business. We also dive into the latest platform updates from Meta, Google, and AI-driven search—and how they’re already affecting contractors’ lead generation.
What you’ll learn in this episode:
- Why housing slowdowns may actually fuel remodeling demand
- Key takeaways from industry surveys, including the TOP 500 list and homeowner spending trends
- How Meta’s budget setting changes could affect your ad performance
- Why reviews (and fast responses!) matter more than ever for local SEO visibility
Want to find out how we can create a custom digital marketing game plan for your contractor business? Schedule a call with us at fatcatstrategies.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
🎵 🎵
Speaker 01 (00:11):
Welcome to Digital Marketing for Contractors, a
podcast for home improvementcontractors to help you crush
your lead goals and take yourbusiness to the next level.
Join us each episode as we giveyou powerful insights and
practical tips on the bestdigital marketing strategies to
help you grow your homeimprovement business.
Let's get started.
Janet (00:32):
Hello and welcome back.
I'm Janet.
I am the founder of Fat Cat andI've got, as always, or as
often with me here, Caitlin,co-owner of Fat Cat Strategies.
Say hey, Caitlin.
Caitlyn (00:43):
Hey, Caitlin here.
So what are we doing today?
We're doing something a littlebit different.
So as you know, this is ourDigital Marketing for
Contractors podcast.
We are going to today give aroundup of basically what's
going on in the industry.
Is there news?
Is there trends?
What's going on in the digitalmarketing side things and we're
going to try to do that in lessthan 30 minutes
Janet (01:05):
yeah so it's a little bit of a news roundup we've got
some some some surveys that havecome out some lists that have
come out so and
Caitlyn (01:13):
we'd love your feedback if this is not helpful let us
know but we're going to try todo it maybe monthly
Janet (01:17):
yeah we'll see
Caitlyn (01:18):
so a lot of news going on
Janet (01:19):
yeah there's news in the industry and we're just trying
to help you stay on top of allthe different things that we
read and see and the things thatcome across our desk during the
course of a day a lot of thingscome across our desk oh So many
Caitlyn (01:33):
things.
And so that being said, I mean,summer obviously just came to
an end.
Labor Day was last weekend.
Whenever you're listening tothis, I mean, we're wrapping
some things up.
There were some headlines thatare worth noting going into the
fall from a couple of reallycredible sources, industry
sources.
Janet's going to share whatthose headlines are, and then
(01:53):
we're going to talk a little bitabout those.
Janet (01:54):
Yeah.
So let's talk about the two bigheadlines that we've been
reading and talking about hereinside of Fat Cat.
And those two headlines comefrom two different sources.
Source number one is theNational Association of Home
Builders and source number twois the Harvard Joint Center for
Housing Studies.
So on one hand you've got theHome Builders Association that
(02:18):
has this actually honestly alittle bit gloomy headline
coming out of it.
It's not even a little bit it'sjust straight up gloomy.
So the National Association ofHome Builders said that July of
2025 marked the 16 consecutivemonths of a falling housing
market index.
(02:38):
So that means every month for16 months, the index that they
track and that kind of trackslike the health of the home
building industry, that index istrending down.
And we all know, even though Isaid a lot of words, if you're
looking at a chart, you want theline to go up to the right, not
down.
And so the home builders aresaying lines going down.
(03:01):
And in fact, 38% of builderswho were surveyed in July
reported that they are actuallycutting their prices.
And that's the highest percentof home builders reporting on
that since they started trackingit in 2022.
So that's on the kind of thenegative side of the coin.
(03:21):
Now let's talk about the flipside of that.
So that's the news coming outof the National Association of
Home Builders.
If we look at one of myfavorite sources, which is
Harvard has I don't even know ifit's called a department.
I kind of picture it like amagic building.
It's called the Joint Centerfor Housing Studies.
There's a whole website thatanybody can go and look at, and
(03:45):
this center does just a ton ofanalysis and really solid
writing, and they put outinfographics all about housing
in the United States.
And that looks at total housinginventory, who owns it,
demographics, trends, what'sbeing built.
(04:07):
Part of that Joint Center forHousing Studies includes some
really amazing analysis on theremodeling industry, which is
what you guys care about.
And in fact, they have, thiscenter has what they call LIRA,
L-I-R-A.
That is the Leading Indicatorof Remodeling Activity.
(04:27):
They look at a bunch ofnumbers, they crunch them, and
then they give us a forecast.
That forecast is predictingthat Q1 of 2026, we're going to
see an uptick in remodelingactivity.
Praise.
So if we put these two thoughtstogether, I'd love to get your
input on this, Caitlin.
(04:47):
It kind of makes sense to me.
If we're not building as manyhomes, people still want to live
and eat inside.
That means they're going to beremodeling more.
Right.
So to me, as a non-economist,non-math nerd.
Sure.
I just think it's totallylogical that if you see some
sort of crunch in housing,you're going to see an uptick in
(05:09):
remodeling.
Caitlyn (05:10):
Always.
Janet (05:10):
We've
Caitlyn (05:11):
been doing this for a long time, Janet.
I mean, it's going to ebb andflow, and that's what we've been
telling our clients, too, is,yeah, this year, if you're
listening to it, I mean, andyou're shaking your head, like,
this has not been the best yearin terms of lead generation, you
name it, for just digitalpresence.
A lot has been shaken both, youknow, out of our control, in
(05:31):
our control, And I think it'sfunny that these two headlines
do conflict.
But I also think that it'ssomething to look forward to and
something we're coaching aswe're preparing for 2026 is do
the legwork now.
We know prices have dropped.
We know things have sloweddown.
That means you cannot stopmarketing.
(05:52):
You cannot stop marketing yourbusiness.
You just you can't.
And I'm tying it, of course,selfishly back to what we do
here.
Right.
But it's easy to hold back andpull back when things are not
going well.
well.
We've seen many, many, manycompanies make that mistake.
This is not the time to dothat.
Harvard's telling us,
Janet (06:08):
yeah, there's going to be more interest in remodeling.
And in fact, I'm just going togo ahead and segue into the next
section and look at, there'ssome new lists that have come
out and a few surveys that Ithink sort of bolster our
argument here that even thoughthings may look a little gloomy
(06:29):
on the house building side,there's room to be hopeful on
the remodeling side so what'sthe first um what's the top of
the list here when we're movinginto looking at surveys and some
lists that have been published
Caitlyn (06:43):
yeah no totally and i'm reflecting back on um i didn't
talk about what i was going tosay in the last segment oh do it
now but yeah i'll go ahead anddo it so uh my husband works for
a fortune 500 company whichdoes help um segue into the next
conversation we're going tohave and they do all new builds
new home builds.
I don't want to go into toomany details.
(07:04):
They're all over the country,right?
They're all over the country,national company, huge company.
And they've only focused onbuilding homes.
And the insulation that goes isone of those things that they
do.
Yeah, they install
Janet (07:18):
insulation.
I know Janet can explain itbetter than what
Caitlyn (07:20):
I can.
They
Janet (07:20):
install, they're insulation installers, which is
really hard to say.
Caitlyn (07:24):
Yeah, no.
And so like to tie back tothese two headlines, they just
made an announcement that theyhave added on a remodeling
division to that portion oftheir company.
Because
Janet (07:38):
they saw their business with new home construction
Caitlyn (07:40):
slow down.
100%.
It has.
It's completely slowed down.
Again, I can't give away toomuch, but they've had to go
through a lot of differentchanges as well to adapt to this
slower period, which isabsolutely accurate.
But they're optimistic aboutwhat's going to come by adding
on this remodeling division.
So the
Janet (07:57):
conversations that you're having around your kitchen
table mirror what we're seeing.
100%.
100% that we're talking abouton this podcast and that we see
at work.
Yes,
Caitlyn (08:05):
yeah, and whether they're actually happening or
I'm just snooping.
So anyway, so back to thesurveys, and we talked about the
Fortune 500.
The Qualified Remodeler, ifyou're listening and don't know,
you should know, they come outwith a list of the top 500
companies in terms of what theyinstall, dollar volume, how many
(08:28):
years they've been in business,what associations they're
involved in, certifications,etc.
So it's a really, really solidlist of companies that ranks the
top remodelers every singleyear.
Janet (08:40):
Yeah, and that list just came out.
We love it when that list comesout.
Again, listener, if you're notaware of this list, it's a great
resource.
I think it's a great resourcefor smaller companies to aspire.
You know, you look at some ofthe bigger companies that maybe
you've never heard of.
Maybe they're six states awayfrom you.
And you can look at theirwebsite, look at what they're
(09:01):
doing Maybe learn from companieswho've blazed a trail ahead of
you that are, you know, maybethey're in the top 15 or 20 or
even top 100 of this top 500.
We just think it's such anamazing resource for this
industry.
We love it when this list comesout.
And if you're not aware of it,go check it out.
Go check it out.
(09:21):
Qualified Remodeler Top 500.
Top
Caitlyn (09:23):
500.
It comes out every year.
You obviously have to submitinformation that you have to be
willing to share with the world.
Yeah.
But it did report that therewere nearly 25 billion
remodeling sales.
I'm not even saying that theright way, but like there was
(09:43):
about...
$25
Janet (09:44):
billion in remodeling was spent in the United States
across 2.2 million completedjobs.
Correct,
Caitlyn (09:51):
correct.
So that's
Janet (09:52):
amazing.
That's a lot of remodelingactivity.
Caitlyn (09:54):
That's fantastic.
And that's coming just fromthose 500 companies who
submitted, you know, to be onthis list.
Correct.
So beyond numbers, one of thebiggest takeaways is how
companies are not just doingsingle services anymore.
If you go to that list, which Ihope you do, you're going to
see, I mean, I promise you thetop 15, maybe the top 50 are
(10:19):
offering multiple services likeroofing, siding, windows, baths.
It's not just one and done.
And this supports, Janet, acouple of other surveys that we
have to share.
Janet (10:30):
Well, it does.
It doesn't just support thesurveys.
It supports some of the trendsthat we've seen in terms of
search with the major platforms.
But before we get to that,let's wrap up some of the other
surveys.
That's a good point.
So we've got QualifiedRemodeler has published its new
list.
We've got two other headlinesthat we wanted to share.
(10:52):
The American Institute ofArchitects has recently
published a survey that they didwith their members.
62% of the architects surveyedreport an uptick in adu projects
so those are accessory dwellingunits yes which to me that kind
of goes back to this wholehousing thing it does you know
(11:14):
if if we're not building enoughhouses people got to live
somewhere and i think there's aninterest in folks building
these accessory dwelling unitsand renting them out having them
be mother-in-law suites correctso if you are a gc and you can
build one of these guys maybethere's an adu in your future
Caitlyn (11:31):
yeah so i think that's super important and like again
as an add-on project like as anadd-on service
Janet (11:38):
yes additions so the other survey i wanted to hit on
is house h-o-u-z-z the websitewe all know and love house
surveyed 22 000 homeownersthrough their website and 54 of
those surveyed reported thatthey did some sort of kitchen or
bath project in 2024 so that'sover half now That doesn't
(12:01):
surprise me because you'reasking people who are on house,
and they're probably on housebecause they're looking at
cabinet colors.
Caitlyn (12:07):
Yeah, you're on Pinterest because you're trying
to plan a wedding.
You're on house because you're
Janet (12:11):
planning a bathroom remodel.
Caitlyn (12:13):
Yes, but still.
So over half of those peoplestill renovated in 2024.
Janet (12:18):
Now, the one thing that also mirrors what we've seen is,
according to the surveyresults, the median budget for
those projects dropped about$4,000 compared to 2023 so more
than half of people areremodeling but they're spending
slightly less on the overallproject ties back to what the
Caitlyn (12:40):
hba was saying about builders having to cut their
prices yes so that goes hand inhand
Janet (12:46):
yes
Caitlyn (12:47):
um kitchens though remain the most popular
Janet (12:50):
yeah on on house even though you know the architects
are telling us that they'reseeing an uptick in adus when
people are surveyed on house thenumber one thing that they want
to remodel is their kitchen
Caitlyn (13:01):
Yep.
Followed by primary bathrooms.
So just a couple of things tonote, like in terms of, are you
offering those services?
Are you thinking about offeringthose services?
Is there, there's an interestin the market for you to offer
those?
There is definitely aninterest.
That's a great point.
So because we're digitalmarketers, we obviously love
these surveys.
(13:21):
We love these resources.
Most of them did come directlyfrom pro remodeler linked back
to those specific sources.
Anyways, we always recommendreference google search trends
um that's where we live andbreathe to make a lot of
decisions uh from your seo toyour pbc to what's working on
(13:41):
your website etc google searchtrends it's a free tool you can
use it um go find it what we sawuh diy kitchen and diy bathroom
searches so somebody whophysically goes to google and
searches on terms related todoing it themselves correct are
(14:02):
way down from COVID peaks.
Janet (14:05):
That doesn't surprise me.
It doesn't surprise me at all.
People were stuck
Caitlyn (14:08):
at home.
You were at home.
You
Janet (14:09):
were hating your bathroom.
You were hating your kitchen.
Yeah, I think to me the themehere with all of this, you know,
the news coming out of the homebuilders, the news coming out
of the Harvard Center for, youknow, looking at remodeling,
there's still projects to bedone.
Right.
But it is not the peak ofCOVID.
(14:31):
No.
Where, I mean, during the peakof COVID, we were all stuck at
home or so many people who hadmaybe never worked from home
before are suddenly working fromhome five days a week.
Caitlyn (14:41):
Hating their home.
Janet (14:42):
Hating their home.
Their kids are going to schoolfrom home.
If you're listening to this andyou were in business, then you
know it.
Yeah.
You know that you were as busyas you wanted to be.
Caitlyn (14:53):
That 2021 year was phenomenal.
Yes.
Yes.
Janet (14:57):
And we were kind of all riding that crest from 2021.
Really?
Until like mid-2024.
What
Caitlyn (15:03):
did it say?
Since 2022.
That was one of the years whenthe pricing started to decrease.
On new home builds.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
On new home builds.
Yeah, home builds, yes.
Sorry.
I'm talking about remodeling.
Yeah, sorry.
I thought it was...
Anyways.
Anyways.
Lots of numbers.
Lots of numbers.
Janet (15:17):
We got a little bit confused.
Huge interest.
Huge opportunity in the countryto make money doing remodeling.
That opportunity is stillthere.
But...
The leads are going to be alittle bit harder to come by.
Yes.
There's going to be morecompetition and your marketing
is going to have to be really onpoint.
(15:39):
But the good news is that notas many people are searching on
DIY anymore.
No.
If they're going to do aproject, they want to hire
somebody.
So that's kind of like where,you know, that's our read on the
pulse right now.
That there's stillopportunities, but, you know, I
(15:59):
mean, I'll just tell a personalstory in the middle of COVID it
was prices cutting on projectson projects I thought it was on
homes 38% of builders reportedcutting prices but those are on
new home builds just new homebuilds
Caitlyn (16:16):
yes It doesn't matter.
In our show notes, we'll havethe links to all of these
resources.
Janet (16:24):
I would love it for somebody to come on and argue
with us about numbers.
Caitlyn (16:28):
I was just reading this like, oh, we've just had to cut
prices.
But anyways, on new homebuilds.
On new home builds.
Janet's going to keep going.
We were talking about apersonal story about these
surveys and the
Janet (16:45):
headlines.
So, I mean, the way I relateto...
The opportunity and strongremodeling industry in COVID,
during the middle of COVID, Ipersonally did this more than
once.
Sitting at a stoplight, I see atruck with a brand on it, some
(17:12):
kind of remodeling service thatI need with a phone number.
I was taking pictures of truckson the highway and at
stoplights and honestly like ifI saw somebody in my
neighborhood I'd go marching myhappy ass up in the middle of
their driveway and trying todistract that contractor while
he's working on somebody else'sjob because I literally could
(17:33):
not get anybody to call me backyou know I had gutters that
needed to be replaced mydriveway needed to be repaved
there were things I wanted doneI was calling folks I was
filling out forms you werenobody was calling me back
listener that day is not todayhomeowners are not tracking you
down at a stoplight to get yourphone number so there are still
(17:56):
leads out there but you're goingto have to work harder to get
them you're going to have to bea better marketer you're going
to have to have an onlinepresence you're going to have to
have multiple lead sources andall news items that we're
looking at and industry analystsare showing that same thing
that there's still demand therebut it's not the rah-rah that it
(18:18):
was in 2020 21, 22, and evenlike really the most of 2023.
Yeah.
And so when we look at that top500 list, the companies that we
see performing the best arethose more mature companies that
might have multiple offerings.
Their marketing is on point.
(18:40):
They might be running TV ads.
They've got a canvassing game.
They've got a strong, they didnot
Caitlyn (18:45):
stop their marketing.
Janet (18:46):
They did not stop their marketing.
They've got a strong callcenter.
It's, where we see companiesstruggling the most are those
smaller companies that may nothave the ability to staff a call
center.
That's right.
They're not able to, you know,have that speed to lead reply.
They have seen the cost oftheir third party leads that
(19:10):
they're buying from like Angie'sList and Home Advisor.
They've seen the cost of thosego up and the quality go down.
All of those are indicators ofa slight cooling in remodeling,
but But it doesn't mean there'snot opportunity there.
There's still opportunity.
And some of these studies areindicating that first quarter
2026, it's going to be a littlebit on the uptick.
Caitlyn (19:30):
That's fantastic.
So hunker down, hang tight.
We'll let you guys know if anyof those stats change.
Janet (19:38):
Okay, so let's talk about platforms.
And what do we mean byplatforms?
Platforms are the big techcompanies.
Meta, which is Facebook andInstagram.
Google, we all know Google.
And then AI is not really aplatform.
It's technology and there's abunch of companies out there,
but there's news to share on theplatform.
On the digital marketing side
Caitlyn (19:57):
of the tools that we are using, that you're maybe
using.
Yeah, so Caitlin, what is upwith Meta?
Well, thank God I was onvacation, to be honest.
Yeah, it was super confusing.
I think I was it was the Fridayright before Labor Day, which
(20:17):
is just cruel.
And there was a bunch of alertsthat went out um through the
meta platform advertisingplatform alerting uh anybody who
was advertising like whoa whoawhoa you've got to start paying
up
Janet (20:29):
front for your ads which okay in 25 years what is how
long i've been doing it you'vebeen doing it say 15 years yeah
have you ever seen a digitalplatform ask for advertisers to
pay up front
Caitlyn (20:45):
god no i mean like i'm sitting here thinking of things
that i pay up front for it'scertainly not Facebook ads.
Janet (20:53):
No, I don't even know how that would work because digital
ads are based on the activity,whether you're clicking, whether
the ad was displayed tosomebody, whether the video was
shown.
So how do you bill in advancefor that?
Caitlyn (21:06):
So you can't, and Meta took that back, undid it, hit
the undo button.
Janet (21:13):
So they made this big stink the Friday before Labor
Day, and then come Tuesday, theywere like, Like, psych, we
didn't mean any of that.
Caitlyn (21:22):
This is hard.
And let's not do that.
We have other things to worryabout.
So that was a quick thing withmeta.
I think a takeaway there is,you know, whether it's you or
your agency in the platform andyou're getting alerted from any
of these resources that you arepaying a lot of money to use,
(21:42):
take a beat, pause.
A lot of it isn't as, I'mtrying to say this the best way
because it's, it's not a big ofa fire that you think it is.
Let the holiday weekend pass.
Janet (21:56):
Yeah.
Caitlyn (21:57):
If it gets shut down, it won't.
I'm just like, I want your
Janet (22:01):
money.
They're not going to shut downyour
Caitlyn (22:02):
account.
Right, right, right, right.
And many times you always seethis, this is like a tactic
that's just spam and it's justbad.
So always consult with youragency or somebody before you
click and commit to anythinglike giving Facebook money up
front because that's the lastthing Facebook needs.
Janet (22:19):
Just like you don't want to get scammed by fake people on
Facebook.
You don't want to get scammedby the actual Facebook
Caitlyn (22:26):
either.
Thank you.
Let's not.
Let's not.
Let's not.
Let's not.
Other things with Meta, just tolet you know whether you care
or you don't care, they shiftedfrom a min-max spend setting to
average spend limits.
So this is interesting.
I haven't been as close in theMeta advertising platform, like
(22:49):
on the back end, because there'sexperts that we have on our
team that do that.
But that being said, that'sinteresting because this is now
probably going to hurtperformance on peak days, like
after storms for roofingcontractors.
So instead of having thosemin-max spin settings to just
(23:10):
having average, yeah, I'm outhere processing out loud kind of
the repercussions.
I think what it means is
Janet (23:17):
you could have your ads stop showing on a day when you
really want them to show becauseit's being averaged out over
the month rather than allowingto have peaks and valleys
throughout the month.
Caitlyn (23:29):
Right, right.
You can't see my face, but I'mtrying to process why they would
do that.
Janet (23:34):
Yeah, we don't know.
Caitlyn (23:35):
So instead of optimizing for high engagement
days like Janet said, it couldactually cap spend which reaches
you at a limit.
So just keep an eye on that.
Yeah,
Janet (23:44):
your spend could get cut off.
Let's say by, I don't know, 3o'clock in the afternoon, when
your audience likes to come homeafter work and that's when you
have historically gotten moreengagement absolutely yeah so we
don't know what's what's upwith we don't know what the
hell's going on with meta butlike they made this weird
announcement last week and nowthey've got this shift from min
(24:07):
budget settings to average whichwe think could hurt i mean we
have roofers who tell us likehey look at the weather totally
if there's an ice storm comingoh yeah you know let's let's run
ads.
Let's, um,
Caitlyn (24:22):
I'll, I'll say this.
And I, I mean, we recommendmeta to clients with, it's, it,
it's not, it doesn't answereverything.
It's not the cure.
No, it's not going to be yourend all be all.
It's part of the wholesolution.
It's part of the wholesolution.
And so like, we're sayingwhat's up with meta.
If you're on the fence aboutmeta right now, I mean, I don't
(24:45):
think you're missing a lot.
Um, yeah, it's that, I guessthat's the headline.
So,
Janet (24:50):
Yeah.
I just, we like to followwhat's going on with the
platforms.
Yeah, totally.
And I kind of chuckled withthat whole, like.
Caitlyn (24:56):
That's insane.
Janet (24:57):
Let's make a big deal out of it, and then let's turn
around three days later and go,never mind.
Caitlyn (25:02):
I don't even mean it.
What time on Friday?
That's just terrible.
Janet (25:04):
Yeah, right before Labor Day weekend.
Caitlyn (25:06):
Okay, something else that's really fun, fun, quote
unquote fun, that we hear a tonfrom, and this is critical.
This is so, so, so, socritical.
Review management.
is dominating acrossindustries.
This isn't news.
You guys know this.
If you're, again, a remodelingcontractor and you don't have
(25:28):
reviews, I am quite unsure howyou're in business.
Not to just be...
Yeah, but
Janet (25:34):
I think the headline is the platforms, specifically
Google, are taking it even astep further.
Even more serious.
So we know that reviews havebeen critical to service
businesses for years.
Have to be.
But...
There's a new study coming outof Yext, Y-E-X-T, which is
another industry analyst that wefollow.
(25:56):
Yes.
This group studied 8.7 millionGoogle searches to see how local
business profiles, those Googlebusiness profiles, how they
show up across differentindustries.
And what they found is that ifyou are slow to respond to
(26:17):
reviews that can negativelyimpact whether or not your
business shows up in searches onmaps and for that Google local
business
Caitlyn (26:28):
profile.
while so I'm going to say thatagain because yes I went on a
riff about how important it isto get reviews but now not only
is it important to get thosereviews you have to respond to
those and quickly in a timelyfashion right like very fast
Janet (26:45):
so this what this what this study is telling us and
what's even weirder about it isit seems to vary by region yeah
by region so in the northeastlet's say you're a painter and
you're in Connecticut.
If you take two weeks torespond to somebody that leaves
you a review, that's not goingto have as big of an impact on
(27:09):
whether or not your paintingbusiness shows up when someone
searches for a painter.
It's not going to have as bigof an impact as if you were in
Atlanta.
So in the South and the West,if you are slow to respond to
reviews, that could make it sothat your Google business
profile just doesn't even showup.
when people are searching foryour services.
(27:31):
It's crazy.
And then in the Midwest, whatthe survey found is that even if
you get a review on the weekendand you're slow in responding,
it can hurt your onlinevisibility.
Yeah, that's insane.
So we'll put links to all thisstuff in the show notes.
I was frankly surprised atthis.
(27:51):
We've always known reviews arecritical.
We preach it to our clients,get reviews.
The news headline here is, Notonly get the reviews, but you
have to respond to them, boththe positive and the negatives,
and you have to do it licketysplit.
Caitlyn (28:06):
Lickety split.
I think the regional side ofthings and the industry side of
things is weird.
And I would take that with agrain of salt.
Because, I mean, this waspublished, I just looked, like
August 15th, 2025.
Google's going to do Google.
They're going to change whatthey're going to change.
But please, please, please,please respond to those reviews.
We at Fat Cat have severaltools that...
(28:27):
offer a solution to respond tothose quickly um but say you
take
Janet (28:32):
that task off your plate
Caitlyn (28:33):
yeah that totally can take that task off your plate um
so one reach out to your agencysee if they have a a tool that
to help you responding toreviews quickly because that's
so critical um if you don't workwith an agency you know it's
not in the budget right nowassign a dedicated responder
(28:54):
like i don't know how manyreviews you're getting a day but
just make sure you responses.
Janet (28:58):
Yeah, maybe it's your office manager, the person who
answers your phones, or even theperson that does your
bookkeeping.
Caitlyn (29:04):
I have the joy somehow of receiving an email every
single time one of our clientsgets a review.
So you can have a setting thatthat person also gets a review
or gets an email and they canjust click.
Janet (29:16):
Go ahead and have some templated responses that they
can copy and paste, make minoredits to because what this
search engine journal report istelling us is that the
timeliness in your responseimpacts your online visibility
yeah absolutely um
Caitlyn (29:37):
were we going to mention something about
Janet (29:39):
yeah well there was something else here i'm looking
at the show notes um you knowwhile we're doing this this
roundup the summer roundup oflike things that we've happened
seen happen with the platform sowe know that meta did the weird
thing with billing google isdoing something where they rank
you based on how quickly yourespond to reviews And then the
third thing that we were goingto mention is something kind of
(30:02):
interesting that we've seen withAI-driven search.
So this is either going onsomething like perplexity or
chat GPT where you say like,hey, what's a reputable exterior
remodeling contractor in theRaleigh, North Carolina area or
however you phrase that search.
(30:23):
Those AI-powered search enginesare now favoring companies that
have multiple solutions morethan they're favoring companies
that only do one thing orspecialize in one thing.
So for example, if you had aroofing company and the only
(30:45):
thing you do is roofing, youdon't do windows, you don't do
gutters, and that's what yourwebsite says, like everything on
your website is about roofingand about nothing else.
For a homeowner that's using anAI search engine your company
is not going to show up whenanother company that could be
newer, younger, not asreputable, not as established,
(31:07):
but they do window replacement,they build decks, they do siding
and roofing.
Because they offer moreservices, the AI bots are
recommending those companiesmore so than these one-solution
companies.
Caitlyn (31:22):
And let's bring that back home, and maybe I'll
reference the right stat here.
Isn't that what the survey wassaying?
That the companies that aredoing the best, I'm like making,
like summarizing everything,the companies that are
performing the best are offeringmultiple services.
Janet (31:40):
Yeah, that was one of the findings that came out of that
Harvard study.
Harvard study, yes.
Caitlyn (31:45):
So
Janet (31:45):
like that
Caitlyn (31:46):
tracks.
Yeah.
So not only is Googlepreferring you or any AI search.
The AI generated search.
AI meaning, like I was thinkingGemini AI.
Yes, okay.
OpenAI, Perplexity, whateveryou're using on search for AI.
Those AI
Janet (32:03):
summaries, wherever you're seeing them.
Caitlyn (32:05):
Your business is showing up if you have multiple
services offered.
But
Janet (32:09):
not showing up as strongly if you specialize in
one service.
It's so interesting.
I'm frankly kind of curiousabout...
I mean, we have had suchamazing relationships over the
past 10 years with companiesthat only do bathrooms.
Yeah.
They just do...
Caitlyn (32:28):
Yeah.
Janet (32:29):
I mean, in those companies, like we're still
seeing those companies performvery strongly right now.
So I'm just, I mean, it's alittle bit of a head scratcher.
Like how does that AIpreference for contractors that
offer multiple services, whatdoes that mean for one day
bathroom contractors?
I honestly don't have an answerto that.
(32:50):
Right.
Caitlyn (32:51):
And if you're looking, I mean, we, I mean, I guess the
thing we, I'm not going to rifftoo much on it, but I guess if
you are, are looking for abathroom remodeling company
through AI.
I would just be interested tosee what shows up.
Janet (33:09):
Yeah, I don't know.
Caitlyn (33:10):
I know.
That's what we're, like, Iknow.
Jane's looking at me like,let's, this is, yeah.
Janet (33:13):
Yeah, I mean, so my take on that is, again, so Caitlin,
what you warned people when wewere talking about meta-changing
their billing practice, if youget some random email, before
you freak out on any news itemrelated to the internet, please
take a beat.
Please take a beat.
It's changing so fast, and yes,we're seeing this kind of trend
(33:36):
with AI generated searchresults.
But at this moment, I don'tknow that those are the
predominant search results.
People are still using Googlethe quote unquote old way.
Yes.
So your Google business profileis still king for now.
Yes.
As of September the 3rd, 2025.
(33:57):
Yes.
But it's just something towatch.
Yeah.
It's something to watch andit's a rapidly evolving story.
so
Caitlyn (34:08):
bottom line for the fall I think this was a good
long episode lots of updateslots of opinions whether they're
right or wrong you know thereare opinions and
Janet (34:19):
yeah
Caitlyn (34:19):
digital marketing is going to change we're reading
the news and chatting about ityeah we're chatting about it I
think Janet already nailed ityou gotta make sure to work on
your review game no matter whatyou have to set up a system to
generate reviews and respond tothose same day if not faster
Janet (34:35):
yeah and you know if we're if we're looking at the
information coming out of umthat harvard center for joint
housing studies theprognostication is that
remodeling is due for an uptickand a stronger year-over-year
performance starting q1 nextyear yes which is what four
(34:57):
months away um so keep marketingkeep fighting for those jobs a
little bit of sunshine might beuh yeah come into remodeling it
will while home builders couldstill be struggling
Caitlyn (35:11):
yeah
Janet (35:11):
absolutely um well as always we're here um yeah we'd
love to hear feedback if youfound this episode helpful or if
you'd rather go back us to goback to talking about like one
tactic at a time this is sort ofa news roundup
Caitlyn (35:26):
news our first news roundup hopefully not the last
um but as always please sharethis with your friend in the
industry subscribe it's so easyto subscribe wherever you listen
to your podcast so you do getnotified I get a notification
every Wednesday morning on myphone that a new digital
marketing for contractorspodcast has released so you can
(35:49):
get that too if you subscribe tous and please speaking of
reviews leave us a review that'sall we have until next time
until next time y'all thank youthank you
Speaker 01 (36:00):
digital marketing for contractors is created by
fat cat strategies for moreinformation visit fat cat
strategies.com.
🎵 🎵
Speaker 01 (00:11):
Welcome to Digital Marketing for Contractors, a
podcast for home improvementcontractors to help you crush
your lead goals and take yourbusiness to the next level.
Join us each episode as we giveyou powerful insights and
practical tips on the bestdigital marketing strategies to
help you grow your homeimprovement business.
Let's get started.
Janet (00:32):
Hello and welcome back.
I'm Janet.
I am the founder of Fat Cat andI've got, as always, or as
often with me here, Caitlin,co-owner of Fat Cat Strategies.
Say hey, Caitlin.
Caitlyn (00:43):
Hey, Caitlin here.
So what are we doing today?
We're doing something a littlebit different.
So as you know, this is ourDigital Marketing for
Contractors podcast.
We are going to today give aroundup of basically what's
going on in the industry.
Is there news?
Is there trends?
What's going on in the digitalmarketing side things and we're
going to try to do that in lessthan 30 minutes
Janet (01:05):
yeah so it's a little bit of a news roundup we've got
some some some surveys that havecome out some lists that have
come out so and
Caitlyn (01:13):
we'd love your feedback if this is not helpful let us
know but we're going to try todo it maybe monthly
Janet (01:17):
yeah we'll see
Caitlyn (01:18):
so a lot of news going on
Janet (01:19):
yeah there's news in the industry and we're just trying
to help you stay on top of allthe different things that we
read and see and the things thatcome across our desk during the
course of a day a lot of thingscome across our desk oh So many
Caitlyn (01:33):
things.
And so that being said, I mean,summer obviously just came to
an end.
Labor Day was last weekend.
Whenever you're listening tothis, I mean, we're wrapping
some things up.
There were some headlines thatare worth noting going into the
fall from a couple of reallycredible sources, industry
sources.
Janet's going to share whatthose headlines are, and then
(01:53):
we're going to talk a little bitabout those.
Janet (01:54):
Yeah.
So let's talk about the two bigheadlines that we've been
reading and talking about hereinside of Fat Cat.
And those two headlines comefrom two different sources.
Source number one is theNational Association of Home
Builders and source number twois the Harvard Joint Center for
Housing Studies.
So on one hand you've got theHome Builders Association that
(02:18):
has this actually honestly alittle bit gloomy headline
coming out of it.
It's not even a little bit it'sjust straight up gloomy.
So the National Association ofHome Builders said that July of
2025 marked the 16 consecutivemonths of a falling housing
market index.
(02:38):
So that means every month for16 months, the index that they
track and that kind of trackslike the health of the home
building industry, that index istrending down.
And we all know, even though Isaid a lot of words, if you're
looking at a chart, you want theline to go up to the right, not
down.
And so the home builders aresaying lines going down.
(03:01):
And in fact, 38% of builderswho were surveyed in July
reported that they are actuallycutting their prices.
And that's the highest percentof home builders reporting on
that since they started trackingit in 2022.
So that's on the kind of thenegative side of the coin.
(03:21):
Now let's talk about the flipside of that.
So that's the news coming outof the National Association of
Home Builders.
If we look at one of myfavorite sources, which is
Harvard has I don't even know ifit's called a department.
I kind of picture it like amagic building.
It's called the Joint Centerfor Housing Studies.
There's a whole website thatanybody can go and look at, and
(03:45):
this center does just a ton ofanalysis and really solid
writing, and they put outinfographics all about housing
in the United States.
And that looks at total housinginventory, who owns it,
demographics, trends, what'sbeing built.
(04:07):
Part of that Joint Center forHousing Studies includes some
really amazing analysis on theremodeling industry, which is
what you guys care about.
And in fact, they have, thiscenter has what they call LIRA,
L-I-R-A.
That is the Leading Indicatorof Remodeling Activity.
(04:27):
They look at a bunch ofnumbers, they crunch them, and
then they give us a forecast.
That forecast is predictingthat Q1 of 2026, we're going to
see an uptick in remodelingactivity.
Praise.
So if we put these two thoughtstogether, I'd love to get your
input on this, Caitlin.
(04:47):
It kind of makes sense to me.
If we're not building as manyhomes, people still want to live
and eat inside.
That means they're going to beremodeling more.
Right.
So to me, as a non-economist,non-math nerd.
Sure.
I just think it's totallylogical that if you see some
sort of crunch in housing,you're going to see an uptick in
(05:09):
remodeling.
Caitlyn (05:10):
Always.
Janet (05:10):
We've
Caitlyn (05:11):
been doing this for a long time, Janet.
I mean, it's going to ebb andflow, and that's what we've been
telling our clients, too, is,yeah, this year, if you're
listening to it, I mean, andyou're shaking your head, like,
this has not been the best yearin terms of lead generation, you
name it, for just digitalpresence.
A lot has been shaken both, youknow, out of our control, in
(05:31):
our control, And I think it'sfunny that these two headlines
do conflict.
But I also think that it'ssomething to look forward to and
something we're coaching aswe're preparing for 2026 is do
the legwork now.
We know prices have dropped.
We know things have sloweddown.
That means you cannot stopmarketing.
(05:52):
You cannot stop marketing yourbusiness.
You just you can't.
And I'm tying it, of course,selfishly back to what we do
here.
Right.
But it's easy to hold back andpull back when things are not
going well.
well.
We've seen many, many, manycompanies make that mistake.
This is not the time to dothat.
Harvard's telling us,
Janet (06:08):
yeah, there's going to be more interest in remodeling.
And in fact, I'm just going togo ahead and segue into the next
section and look at, there'ssome new lists that have come
out and a few surveys that Ithink sort of bolster our
argument here that even thoughthings may look a little gloomy
(06:29):
on the house building side,there's room to be hopeful on
the remodeling side so what'sthe first um what's the top of
the list here when we're movinginto looking at surveys and some
lists that have been published
Caitlyn (06:43):
yeah no totally and i'm reflecting back on um i didn't
talk about what i was going tosay in the last segment oh do it
now but yeah i'll go ahead anddo it so uh my husband works for
a fortune 500 company whichdoes help um segue into the next
conversation we're going tohave and they do all new builds
new home builds.
I don't want to go into toomany details.
(07:04):
They're all over the country,right?
They're all over the country,national company, huge company.
And they've only focused onbuilding homes.
And the insulation that goes isone of those things that they
do.
Yeah, they install
Janet (07:18):
insulation.
I know Janet can explain itbetter than what
Caitlyn (07:20):
I can.
They
Janet (07:20):
install, they're insulation installers, which is
really hard to say.
Caitlyn (07:24):
Yeah, no.
And so like to tie back tothese two headlines, they just
made an announcement that theyhave added on a remodeling
division to that portion oftheir company.
Because
Janet (07:38):
they saw their business with new home construction
Caitlyn (07:40):
slow down.
100%.
It has.
It's completely slowed down.
Again, I can't give away toomuch, but they've had to go
through a lot of differentchanges as well to adapt to this
slower period, which isabsolutely accurate.
But they're optimistic aboutwhat's going to come by adding
on this remodeling division.
So the
Janet (07:57):
conversations that you're having around your kitchen
table mirror what we're seeing.
100%.
100% that we're talking abouton this podcast and that we see
at work.
Yes,
Caitlyn (08:05):
yeah, and whether they're actually happening or
I'm just snooping.
So anyway, so back to thesurveys, and we talked about the
Fortune 500.
The Qualified Remodeler, ifyou're listening and don't know,
you should know, they come outwith a list of the top 500
companies in terms of what theyinstall, dollar volume, how many
(08:28):
years they've been in business,what associations they're
involved in, certifications,etc.
So it's a really, really solidlist of companies that ranks the
top remodelers every singleyear.
Janet (08:40):
Yeah, and that list just came out.
We love it when that list comesout.
Again, listener, if you're notaware of this list, it's a great
resource.
I think it's a great resourcefor smaller companies to aspire.
You know, you look at some ofthe bigger companies that maybe
you've never heard of.
Maybe they're six states awayfrom you.
And you can look at theirwebsite, look at what they're
(09:01):
doing Maybe learn from companieswho've blazed a trail ahead of
you that are, you know, maybethey're in the top 15 or 20 or
even top 100 of this top 500.
We just think it's such anamazing resource for this
industry.
We love it when this list comesout.
And if you're not aware of it,go check it out.
Go check it out.
(09:21):
Qualified Remodeler Top 500.
Top
Caitlyn (09:23):
500.
It comes out every year.
You obviously have to submitinformation that you have to be
willing to share with the world.
Yeah.
But it did report that therewere nearly 25 billion
remodeling sales.
I'm not even saying that theright way, but like there was
(09:43):
about...
$25
Janet (09:44):
billion in remodeling was spent in the United States
across 2.2 million completedjobs.
Correct,
Caitlyn (09:51):
correct.
So that's
Janet (09:52):
amazing.
That's a lot of remodelingactivity.
Caitlyn (09:54):
That's fantastic.
And that's coming just fromthose 500 companies who
submitted, you know, to be onthis list.
Correct.
So beyond numbers, one of thebiggest takeaways is how
companies are not just doingsingle services anymore.
If you go to that list, which Ihope you do, you're going to
see, I mean, I promise you thetop 15, maybe the top 50 are
(10:19):
offering multiple services likeroofing, siding, windows, baths.
It's not just one and done.
And this supports, Janet, acouple of other surveys that we
have to share.
Janet (10:30):
Well, it does.
It doesn't just support thesurveys.
It supports some of the trendsthat we've seen in terms of
search with the major platforms.
But before we get to that,let's wrap up some of the other
surveys.
That's a good point.
So we've got QualifiedRemodeler has published its new
list.
We've got two other headlinesthat we wanted to share.
(10:52):
The American Institute ofArchitects has recently
published a survey that they didwith their members.
62% of the architects surveyedreport an uptick in adu projects
so those are accessory dwellingunits yes which to me that kind
of goes back to this wholehousing thing it does you know
(11:14):
if if we're not building enoughhouses people got to live
somewhere and i think there's aninterest in folks building
these accessory dwelling unitsand renting them out having them
be mother-in-law suites correctso if you are a gc and you can
build one of these guys maybethere's an adu in your future
Caitlyn (11:31):
yeah so i think that's super important and like again
as an add-on project like as anadd-on service
Janet (11:38):
yes additions so the other survey i wanted to hit on
is house h-o-u-z-z the websitewe all know and love house
surveyed 22 000 homeownersthrough their website and 54 of
those surveyed reported thatthey did some sort of kitchen or
bath project in 2024 so that'sover half now That doesn't
(12:01):
surprise me because you'reasking people who are on house,
and they're probably on housebecause they're looking at
cabinet colors.
Caitlyn (12:07):
Yeah, you're on Pinterest because you're trying
to plan a wedding.
You're on house because you're
Janet (12:11):
planning a bathroom remodel.
Caitlyn (12:13):
Yes, but still.
So over half of those peoplestill renovated in 2024.
Janet (12:18):
Now, the one thing that also mirrors what we've seen is,
according to the surveyresults, the median budget for
those projects dropped about$4,000 compared to 2023 so more
than half of people areremodeling but they're spending
slightly less on the overallproject ties back to what the
Caitlyn (12:40):
hba was saying about builders having to cut their
prices yes so that goes hand inhand
Janet (12:46):
yes
Caitlyn (12:47):
um kitchens though remain the most popular
Janet (12:50):
yeah on on house even though you know the architects
are telling us that they'reseeing an uptick in adus when
people are surveyed on house thenumber one thing that they want
to remodel is their kitchen
Caitlyn (13:01):
Yep.
Followed by primary bathrooms.
So just a couple of things tonote, like in terms of, are you
offering those services?
Are you thinking about offeringthose services?
Is there, there's an interestin the market for you to offer
those?
There is definitely aninterest.
That's a great point.
So because we're digitalmarketers, we obviously love
these surveys.
(13:21):
We love these resources.
Most of them did come directlyfrom pro remodeler linked back
to those specific sources.
Anyways, we always recommendreference google search trends
um that's where we live andbreathe to make a lot of
decisions uh from your seo toyour pbc to what's working on
(13:41):
your website etc google searchtrends it's a free tool you can
use it um go find it what we sawuh diy kitchen and diy bathroom
searches so somebody whophysically goes to google and
searches on terms related todoing it themselves correct are
(14:02):
way down from COVID peaks.
Janet (14:05):
That doesn't surprise me.
It doesn't surprise me at all.
People were stuck
Caitlyn (14:08):
at home.
You were at home.
You
Janet (14:09):
were hating your bathroom.
You were hating your kitchen.
Yeah, I think to me the themehere with all of this, you know,
the news coming out of the homebuilders, the news coming out
of the Harvard Center for, youknow, looking at remodeling,
there's still projects to bedone.
Right.
But it is not the peak ofCOVID.
(14:31):
No.
Where, I mean, during the peakof COVID, we were all stuck at
home or so many people who hadmaybe never worked from home
before are suddenly working fromhome five days a week.
Caitlyn (14:41):
Hating their home.
Janet (14:42):
Hating their home.
Their kids are going to schoolfrom home.
If you're listening to this andyou were in business, then you
know it.
Yeah.
You know that you were as busyas you wanted to be.
Caitlyn (14:53):
That 2021 year was phenomenal.
Yes.
Yes.
Janet (14:57):
And we were kind of all riding that crest from 2021.
Really?
Until like mid-2024.
What
Caitlyn (15:03):
did it say?
Since 2022.
That was one of the years whenthe pricing started to decrease.
On new home builds.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
On new home builds.
Yeah, home builds, yes.
Sorry.
I'm talking about remodeling.
Yeah, sorry.
I thought it was...
Anyways.
Anyways.
Lots of numbers.
Lots of numbers.
Janet (15:17):
We got a little bit confused.
Huge interest.
Huge opportunity in the countryto make money doing remodeling.
That opportunity is stillthere.
But...
The leads are going to be alittle bit harder to come by.
Yes.
There's going to be morecompetition and your marketing
is going to have to be really onpoint.
(15:39):
But the good news is that notas many people are searching on
DIY anymore.
No.
If they're going to do aproject, they want to hire
somebody.
So that's kind of like where,you know, that's our read on the
pulse right now.
That there's stillopportunities, but, you know, I
(15:59):
mean, I'll just tell a personalstory in the middle of COVID it
was prices cutting on projectson projects I thought it was on
homes 38% of builders reportedcutting prices but those are on
new home builds just new homebuilds
Caitlyn (16:16):
yes It doesn't matter.
In our show notes, we'll havethe links to all of these
resources.
Janet (16:24):
I would love it for somebody to come on and argue
with us about numbers.
Caitlyn (16:28):
I was just reading this like, oh, we've just had to cut
prices.
But anyways, on new homebuilds.
On new home builds.
Janet's going to keep going.
We were talking about apersonal story about these
surveys and the
Janet (16:45):
headlines.
So, I mean, the way I relateto...
The opportunity and strongremodeling industry in COVID,
during the middle of COVID, Ipersonally did this more than
once.
Sitting at a stoplight, I see atruck with a brand on it, some
(17:12):
kind of remodeling service thatI need with a phone number.
I was taking pictures of truckson the highway and at
stoplights and honestly like ifI saw somebody in my
neighborhood I'd go marching myhappy ass up in the middle of
their driveway and trying todistract that contractor while
he's working on somebody else'sjob because I literally could
(17:33):
not get anybody to call me backyou know I had gutters that
needed to be replaced mydriveway needed to be repaved
there were things I wanted doneI was calling folks I was
filling out forms you werenobody was calling me back
listener that day is not todayhomeowners are not tracking you
down at a stoplight to get yourphone number so there are still
(17:56):
leads out there but you're goingto have to work harder to get
them you're going to have to bea better marketer you're going
to have to have an onlinepresence you're going to have to
have multiple lead sources andall news items that we're
looking at and industry analystsare showing that same thing
that there's still demand therebut it's not the rah-rah that it
(18:18):
was in 2020 21, 22, and evenlike really the most of 2023.
Yeah.
And so when we look at that top500 list, the companies that we
see performing the best arethose more mature companies that
might have multiple offerings.
Their marketing is on point.
(18:40):
They might be running TV ads.
They've got a canvassing game.
They've got a strong, they didnot
Caitlyn (18:45):
stop their marketing.
Janet (18:46):
They did not stop their marketing.
They've got a strong callcenter.
It's, where we see companiesstruggling the most are those
smaller companies that may nothave the ability to staff a call
center.
That's right.
They're not able to, you know,have that speed to lead reply.
They have seen the cost oftheir third party leads that
(19:10):
they're buying from like Angie'sList and Home Advisor.
They've seen the cost of thosego up and the quality go down.
All of those are indicators ofa slight cooling in remodeling,
but But it doesn't mean there'snot opportunity there.
There's still opportunity.
And some of these studies areindicating that first quarter
2026, it's going to be a littlebit on the uptick.
Caitlyn (19:30):
That's fantastic.
So hunker down, hang tight.
We'll let you guys know if anyof those stats change.
Janet (19:38):
Okay, so let's talk about platforms.
And what do we mean byplatforms?
Platforms are the big techcompanies.
Meta, which is Facebook andInstagram.
Google, we all know Google.
And then AI is not really aplatform.
It's technology and there's abunch of companies out there,
but there's news to share on theplatform.
On the digital marketing side
Caitlyn (19:57):
of the tools that we are using, that you're maybe
using.
Yeah, so Caitlin, what is upwith Meta?
Well, thank God I was onvacation, to be honest.
Yeah, it was super confusing.
I think I was it was the Fridayright before Labor Day, which
(20:17):
is just cruel.
And there was a bunch of alertsthat went out um through the
meta platform advertisingplatform alerting uh anybody who
was advertising like whoa whoawhoa you've got to start paying
up
Janet (20:29):
front for your ads which okay in 25 years what is how
long i've been doing it you'vebeen doing it say 15 years yeah
have you ever seen a digitalplatform ask for advertisers to
pay up front
Caitlyn (20:45):
god no i mean like i'm sitting here thinking of things
that i pay up front for it'scertainly not Facebook ads.
Janet (20:53):
No, I don't even know how that would work because digital
ads are based on the activity,whether you're clicking, whether
the ad was displayed tosomebody, whether the video was
shown.
So how do you bill in advancefor that?
Caitlyn (21:06):
So you can't, and Meta took that back, undid it, hit
the undo button.
Janet (21:13):
So they made this big stink the Friday before Labor
Day, and then come Tuesday, theywere like, Like, psych, we
didn't mean any of that.
Caitlyn (21:22):
This is hard.
And let's not do that.
We have other things to worryabout.
So that was a quick thing withmeta.
I think a takeaway there is,you know, whether it's you or
your agency in the platform andyou're getting alerted from any
of these resources that you arepaying a lot of money to use,
(21:42):
take a beat, pause.
A lot of it isn't as, I'mtrying to say this the best way
because it's, it's not a big ofa fire that you think it is.
Let the holiday weekend pass.
Janet (21:56):
Yeah.
Caitlyn (21:57):
If it gets shut down, it won't.
I'm just like, I want your
Janet (22:01):
money.
They're not going to shut downyour
Caitlyn (22:02):
account.
Right, right, right, right.
And many times you always seethis, this is like a tactic
that's just spam and it's justbad.
So always consult with youragency or somebody before you
click and commit to anythinglike giving Facebook money up
front because that's the lastthing Facebook needs.
Janet (22:19):
Just like you don't want to get scammed by fake people on
Facebook.
You don't want to get scammedby the actual Facebook
Caitlyn (22:26):
either.
Thank you.
Let's not.
Let's not.
Let's not.
Let's not.
Other things with Meta, just tolet you know whether you care
or you don't care, they shiftedfrom a min-max spend setting to
average spend limits.
So this is interesting.
I haven't been as close in theMeta advertising platform, like
(22:49):
on the back end, because there'sexperts that we have on our
team that do that.
But that being said, that'sinteresting because this is now
probably going to hurtperformance on peak days, like
after storms for roofingcontractors.
So instead of having thosemin-max spin settings to just
(23:10):
having average, yeah, I'm outhere processing out loud kind of
the repercussions.
I think what it means is
Janet (23:17):
you could have your ads stop showing on a day when you
really want them to show becauseit's being averaged out over
the month rather than allowingto have peaks and valleys
throughout the month.
Caitlyn (23:29):
Right, right.
You can't see my face, but I'mtrying to process why they would
do that.
Janet (23:34):
Yeah, we don't know.
Caitlyn (23:35):
So instead of optimizing for high engagement
days like Janet said, it couldactually cap spend which reaches
you at a limit.
So just keep an eye on that.
Yeah,
Janet (23:44):
your spend could get cut off.
Let's say by, I don't know, 3o'clock in the afternoon, when
your audience likes to come homeafter work and that's when you
have historically gotten moreengagement absolutely yeah so we
don't know what's what's upwith we don't know what the
hell's going on with meta butlike they made this weird
announcement last week and nowthey've got this shift from min
(24:07):
budget settings to average whichwe think could hurt i mean we
have roofers who tell us likehey look at the weather totally
if there's an ice storm comingoh yeah you know let's let's run
ads.
Let's, um,
Caitlyn (24:22):
I'll, I'll say this.
And I, I mean, we recommendmeta to clients with, it's, it,
it's not, it doesn't answereverything.
It's not the cure.
No, it's not going to be yourend all be all.
It's part of the wholesolution.
It's part of the wholesolution.
And so like, we're sayingwhat's up with meta.
If you're on the fence aboutmeta right now, I mean, I don't
(24:45):
think you're missing a lot.
Um, yeah, it's that, I guessthat's the headline.
So,
Janet (24:50):
Yeah.
I just, we like to followwhat's going on with the
platforms.
Yeah, totally.
And I kind of chuckled withthat whole, like.
Caitlyn (24:56):
That's insane.
Janet (24:57):
Let's make a big deal out of it, and then let's turn
around three days later and go,never mind.
Caitlyn (25:02):
I don't even mean it.
What time on Friday?
That's just terrible.
Janet (25:04):
Yeah, right before Labor Day weekend.
Caitlyn (25:06):
Okay, something else that's really fun, fun, quote
unquote fun, that we hear a tonfrom, and this is critical.
This is so, so, so, socritical.
Review management.
is dominating acrossindustries.
This isn't news.
You guys know this.
If you're, again, a remodelingcontractor and you don't have
(25:28):
reviews, I am quite unsure howyou're in business.
Not to just be...
Yeah, but
Janet (25:34):
I think the headline is the platforms, specifically
Google, are taking it even astep further.
Even more serious.
So we know that reviews havebeen critical to service
businesses for years.
Have to be.
But...
There's a new study coming outof Yext, Y-E-X-T, which is
another industry analyst that wefollow.
(25:56):
Yes.
This group studied 8.7 millionGoogle searches to see how local
business profiles, those Googlebusiness profiles, how they
show up across differentindustries.
And what they found is that ifyou are slow to respond to
(26:17):
reviews that can negativelyimpact whether or not your
business shows up in searches onmaps and for that Google local
business
Caitlyn (26:28):
profile.
while so I'm going to say thatagain because yes I went on a
riff about how important it isto get reviews but now not only
is it important to get thosereviews you have to respond to
those and quickly in a timelyfashion right like very fast
Janet (26:45):
so this what this what this study is telling us and
what's even weirder about it isit seems to vary by region yeah
by region so in the northeastlet's say you're a painter and
you're in Connecticut.
If you take two weeks torespond to somebody that leaves
you a review, that's not goingto have as big of an impact on
(27:09):
whether or not your paintingbusiness shows up when someone
searches for a painter.
It's not going to have as bigof an impact as if you were in
Atlanta.
So in the South and the West,if you are slow to respond to
reviews, that could make it sothat your Google business
profile just doesn't even showup.
when people are searching foryour services.
(27:31):
It's crazy.
And then in the Midwest, whatthe survey found is that even if
you get a review on the weekendand you're slow in responding,
it can hurt your onlinevisibility.
Yeah, that's insane.
So we'll put links to all thisstuff in the show notes.
I was frankly surprised atthis.
(27:51):
We've always known reviews arecritical.
We preach it to our clients,get reviews.
The news headline here is, Notonly get the reviews, but you
have to respond to them, boththe positive and the negatives,
and you have to do it licketysplit.
Caitlyn (28:06):
Lickety split.
I think the regional side ofthings and the industry side of
things is weird.
And I would take that with agrain of salt.
Because, I mean, this waspublished, I just looked, like
August 15th, 2025.
Google's going to do Google.
They're going to change whatthey're going to change.
But please, please, please,please respond to those reviews.
We at Fat Cat have severaltools that...
(28:27):
offer a solution to respond tothose quickly um but say you
take
Janet (28:32):
that task off your plate
Caitlyn (28:33):
yeah that totally can take that task off your plate um
so one reach out to your agencysee if they have a a tool that
to help you responding toreviews quickly because that's
so critical um if you don't workwith an agency you know it's
not in the budget right nowassign a dedicated responder
(28:54):
like i don't know how manyreviews you're getting a day but
just make sure you responses.
Janet (28:58):
Yeah, maybe it's your office manager, the person who
answers your phones, or even theperson that does your
bookkeeping.
Caitlyn (29:04):
I have the joy somehow of receiving an email every
single time one of our clientsgets a review.
So you can have a setting thatthat person also gets a review
or gets an email and they canjust click.
Janet (29:16):
Go ahead and have some templated responses that they
can copy and paste, make minoredits to because what this
search engine journal report istelling us is that the
timeliness in your responseimpacts your online visibility
yeah absolutely um
Caitlyn (29:37):
were we going to mention something about
Janet (29:39):
yeah well there was something else here i'm looking
at the show notes um you knowwhile we're doing this this
roundup the summer roundup oflike things that we've happened
seen happen with the platform sowe know that meta did the weird
thing with billing google isdoing something where they rank
you based on how quickly yourespond to reviews And then the
third thing that we were goingto mention is something kind of
(30:02):
interesting that we've seen withAI-driven search.
So this is either going onsomething like perplexity or
chat GPT where you say like,hey, what's a reputable exterior
remodeling contractor in theRaleigh, North Carolina area or
however you phrase that search.
(30:23):
Those AI-powered search enginesare now favoring companies that
have multiple solutions morethan they're favoring companies
that only do one thing orspecialize in one thing.
So for example, if you had aroofing company and the only
(30:45):
thing you do is roofing, youdon't do windows, you don't do
gutters, and that's what yourwebsite says, like everything on
your website is about roofingand about nothing else.
For a homeowner that's using anAI search engine your company
is not going to show up whenanother company that could be
newer, younger, not asreputable, not as established,
(31:07):
but they do window replacement,they build decks, they do siding
and roofing.
Because they offer moreservices, the AI bots are
recommending those companiesmore so than these one-solution
companies.
Caitlyn (31:22):
And let's bring that back home, and maybe I'll
reference the right stat here.
Isn't that what the survey wassaying?
That the companies that aredoing the best, I'm like making,
like summarizing everything,the companies that are
performing the best are offeringmultiple services.
Janet (31:40):
Yeah, that was one of the findings that came out of that
Harvard study.
Harvard study, yes.
Caitlyn (31:45):
So
Janet (31:45):
like that
Caitlyn (31:46):
tracks.
Yeah.
So not only is Googlepreferring you or any AI search.
The AI generated search.
AI meaning, like I was thinkingGemini AI.
Yes, okay.
OpenAI, Perplexity, whateveryou're using on search for AI.
Those AI
Janet (32:03):
summaries, wherever you're seeing them.
Caitlyn (32:05):
Your business is showing up if you have multiple
services offered.
But
Janet (32:09):
not showing up as strongly if you specialize in
one service.
It's so interesting.
I'm frankly kind of curiousabout...
I mean, we have had suchamazing relationships over the
past 10 years with companiesthat only do bathrooms.
Yeah.
They just do...
Caitlyn (32:28):
Yeah.
Janet (32:29):
I mean, in those companies, like we're still
seeing those companies performvery strongly right now.
So I'm just, I mean, it's alittle bit of a head scratcher.
Like how does that AIpreference for contractors that
offer multiple services, whatdoes that mean for one day
bathroom contractors?
I honestly don't have an answerto that.
(32:50):
Right.
Caitlyn (32:51):
And if you're looking, I mean, we, I mean, I guess the
thing we, I'm not going to rifftoo much on it, but I guess if
you are, are looking for abathroom remodeling company
through AI.
I would just be interested tosee what shows up.
Janet (33:09):
Yeah, I don't know.
Caitlyn (33:10):
I know.
That's what we're, like, Iknow.
Jane's looking at me like,let's, this is, yeah.
Janet (33:13):
Yeah, I mean, so my take on that is, again, so Caitlin,
what you warned people when wewere talking about meta-changing
their billing practice, if youget some random email, before
you freak out on any news itemrelated to the internet, please
take a beat.
Please take a beat.
It's changing so fast, and yes,we're seeing this kind of trend
(33:36):
with AI generated searchresults.
But at this moment, I don'tknow that those are the
predominant search results.
People are still using Googlethe quote unquote old way.
Yes.
So your Google business profileis still king for now.
Yes.
As of September the 3rd, 2025.
(33:57):
Yes.
But it's just something towatch.
Yeah.
It's something to watch andit's a rapidly evolving story.
so
Caitlyn (34:08):
bottom line for the fall I think this was a good
long episode lots of updateslots of opinions whether they're
right or wrong you know thereare opinions and
Janet (34:19):
yeah
Caitlyn (34:19):
digital marketing is going to change we're reading
the news and chatting about ityeah we're chatting about it I
think Janet already nailed ityou gotta make sure to work on
your review game no matter whatyou have to set up a system to
generate reviews and respond tothose same day if not faster
Janet (34:35):
yeah and you know if we're if we're looking at the
information coming out of umthat harvard center for joint
housing studies theprognostication is that
remodeling is due for an uptickand a stronger year-over-year
performance starting q1 nextyear yes which is what four
(34:57):
months away um so keep marketingkeep fighting for those jobs a
little bit of sunshine might beuh yeah come into remodeling it
will while home builders couldstill be struggling
Caitlyn (35:11):
yeah
Janet (35:11):
absolutely um well as always we're here um yeah we'd
love to hear feedback if youfound this episode helpful or if
you'd rather go back us to goback to talking about like one
tactic at a time this is sort ofa news roundup
Caitlyn (35:26):
news our first news roundup hopefully not the last
um but as always please sharethis with your friend in the
industry subscribe it's so easyto subscribe wherever you listen
to your podcast so you do getnotified I get a notification
every Wednesday morning on myphone that a new digital
marketing for contractorspodcast has released so you can
(35:49):
get that too if you subscribe tous and please speaking of
reviews leave us a review that'sall we have until next time
until next time y'all thank youthank you
Speaker 01 (36:00):
digital marketing for contractors is created by
fat cat strategies for moreinformation visit fat cat
strategies.com.
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