February 1, 2024 • 33 mins
In this episode, we’re casting our minds back to 2004, when NASA landed the Spirit rover on Mars; the last episode of Friends aired; George W Bush was re-elected US president, and the number one hits were LMC’s Take Me To The Clouds Above in the UK and Hey Ya! By Outkast in the US.
Over at Harvard University, computer science student Mark Zuckerberg is coding in his dorm room. Lately, he’s been nurturing a reputation as a minor enfant terrible on campus after creating the shortlived site FaceMash, which allowed students to rate each other’s hotness.
Today, Wednesday, 4th February, he’s about to push “publish” on TheFacebook, which would later become simply Facebook.
So what does Facebook look like at 20, and what can we learn from this social networking phenomenon?
To help me answer this and more, I’m joined by Jason Mander, Chief Research Officer at leading global consumer research platform GWI, to dive into their vast research platform and take a deep dive on Facebook at 20.
Here are the key statistics Jason mentioned on the podcast, extracted from the GWI platform.
- 75% of people in the UK use Facebook monthly, 66% use it weekly, and 50% use it daily
- Boomer Facebook usage has increased 20% over the last decade, with around 66% of boomers currently using it
- Gen Z and student Facebook usage has decreased compared to 10-20 years ago, though around 66% of Gen Z still use it
- Half of 13-14 year olds are on Facebook, despite declining usage among younger generations
- TikTok, Instagram and Snapchat are the most popular platforms among children
- Meta owns Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp and Messenger – the top 4 platforms in the UK
- 15% of UK residents purchase secondhand items online weekly
- Around 50% of Brits use eBay for selling items, 25% use Facebook Marketplace, and smaller percentages use sites like Gumtree
- Three quarters of Millennials and Gen X in the UK use Facebook, with stable usage over the last 10 years
- Instagram ranks as the 4th most used social media platform in the UK, used by around 60% of people
- Facebook Messenger ranks 3rd for pure messaging platforms in the UK
- iMessage overtakes Messenger among younger Gen Z
- 96% of Gen Z in the UK use at least one Meta platform like Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp
- Boomers’ Facebook usage is up 20% in the last decade
More on Jason
Jason on LinkedIn
Jason on Twitter
You can listen to the episode with GWI Tom Smith here.
Thanks for listening to Digitally Curious. You can buy the book that showcases these episodes at curious.click/order
Your Host is Actionable Futurist® Andrew Grill
For more on Andrew - what he speaks about and recent talks, please visit ActionableFuturist.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In today's episode, we're casting our minds back to
2004, when Nessa landed theSpirit Rover on Mars.
The last episode of Friends, Ed.
George W Bush was re-elected USPresident and the number one
hits were LMC's Take Me to theClouds Above in the UK and hey
Ya by Outcast in the US.
Over at Harvard University,computer science student Mark
(00:22):
Zuckerberg is coding in his dormroom.
Lately he's been nurturing areputation as a minor un-fonte
terribile on campus aftercreating a short-lived site,
FaceMash, which allowed studentsto rate each other's hotness.
Today, Wednesday 4th February,he's about to push publish on
the Facebook, which would laterbecome simply Facebook.
So what does Facebook look likeat 20?
(00:44):
What can we learn from thissocial networking phenomenon?
To help me answer this and more, I'm joined today by Jason
Mander, Chief Research Officerat Leading Global Consumer
Research Platform, GWI, to diveinto their vast research
platform and take a deep dive onFacebook at 20.
(01:06):
Welcome, Jason.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Thank you, it's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Now back in Season 4, Episode 1, we actually had your
CEO, Tom Smith, on the showspeaking about the future of
market research.
But for those not familiar withGWI, could you give us an
overview of what you do?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah, absolutely so.
As you mentioned, gwi is aglobal consumer research
platform.
Each year, we're speaking tomillions of people across more
than 50 countries, asking them awide range of questions about
their digital lives andlifestyles so pertinent to today
.
What social media are you using?
What phones you have?
How are you interacting withbrands?
Which apps are in and out atthe moment?
(01:42):
We compile that together, usetechnology to serve it in a
platform to allow our clients toget a 360 view of how people
are feeling, what they're doingand what the opportunities are
for brands.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Now let's turn to Facebook.
At 20, you've been looking atthe social network for some time
now.
I know you've developed anumber of key takeaways using
your unique insights platform.
So let's look at thedemographics of Facebook.
If I look at my own use of theplatform, I'm a Gen X.
I'd say I'm mainly used to keepup with friends and family back
in Australia.
I know my parents, reggie, lookat my stories and posts.
(02:15):
Ironically, they're all postedvia Instagram, but it helps them
keep up with my activities inLondon.
So let's maybe look at how thedifferent generations have
changed over the last years andwhat groups of people use it
today.
So maybe, looking at yourresearch, you could tell us
what's changed over the lastfive, 10, 15, 20 years for
boomers, gen X, gen Y and Gen Z.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Not too much to cover .
Then let's start with someoverall pictures.
So in the UK at the moment,three quarters of us use
Facebook every month, which is,I think, quite an impressive
figure.
It's about two thirds of us useit on a weekly basis and about
half of us are using it daily.
So to set the record straight,facebook adoption is still very
(02:57):
strong.
It's still very popular.
Look within generations andthere are differences and
there's definitely beendifferent adoption curves over
the last two decades.
So the recent growth perhapsunsurprisingly has come from
boomers.
If we were to look at the lastdecade, their usage is up by
about 20%, so 20% more peopleusing it in that cohort than
(03:20):
before, and within that groupit's a very clear favorite.
As you go into youngergenerations, there's more of a
pack at the front competing witheach other In boomers.
Very much Facebook is theirgo-to place and there's still
more growth to come in thatgroup.
About two thirds of them areusing Facebook at the moment.
If you were to compare that to,let's say, instagram, about a
(03:41):
third of boomers.
Tiktok only about a tenth ofboomers.
So very much Facebook is aclear playground for boomers.
More growth to come.
At the other end of the spectrum.
There has been a decrease inGen Z or Z or students, using
the platform.
To be clear, a lot of them arestill on it.
Still about two thirds of themare on Facebook in some form,
(04:05):
but that does represent adecrease from what we would have
seen 10 or 20 years ago.
So what that tells us is thatGen Z haven't been adopting it
in quite the same way as thecohorts who went before them
have.
In the middle we have yourMillennials and your Gen Xs,
where, largely, adoption hasremained stable, certainly over
(04:25):
the last 10 years.
It's still a very popularplatform.
About three-quarters of both ofthose generations are using it.
We haven't seen the declinesthat we've seen in the younger
groups, but we have seen anarray of other platforms explode
onto the scene that now competewith Facebook.
So for those cohorts, probably,usage of Facebook has become
more specialized.
(04:46):
They're perhaps not using it asfrequently or intensively as
they once did, but they're stillvery much on it.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Now demographics, and social demographics is
something I'm really interestedin.
We've had a number of peopletalk about the different
generations, so we've talkedabout boomers, x, y, z and Z.
We've now got the alphas andthe beaters.
What are they doing withFacebook?
Do they even care aboutFacebook?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
They yeah, they do.
I mean, I've been working withthis type of data for about 15
years and pretty much every oneof those years especially in my
last decade you'll see headlinessaying Facebook is dead.
Facebook is dying.
People are deserting Facebookand really it doesn't stack up
and that is still true amongtoday's younger consumers, if we
(05:32):
talk specifically about 13 or15 or 15 year olds, because many
platforms still have a limitthat means you need to be 13 or
older.
Facebook and Facebook Messengerare not the most popular among
those groups, but still aroundhalf of that demographic are on
Facebook.
For a platform that's 20 yearsold, I'd say it's pretty
(05:53):
impressive to still have thatreach.
Very clearly, though, for thekids, it's a battle between
TikTok and Instagram, forTopspot and Snapchat is chasing
very, very closely on theirheels.
So those are the threeplatforms in favour with
children, but they still seevalue in Facebook.
Yes, you'll hear them talkabout it ironically.
(06:14):
Yes, you'll hear them probablymock older people for using
Facebook in certain ways, butthey're still on there.
They're still logging inlooking at what's going on.
So it's not dead.
It's just not as popular assome of the alternatives.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Now, many would know that Meta actually owns Facebook
as well as Instagram andWhatsApp, and someone argued
that their billion-dollarpurchase of Instagram in 2012,
and their $16 billion purchaseof WhatsApp in 2014 was quite
strategic.
Does your research support that?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Absolutely.
I think most people saw theInstagram acquisition coming and
it made a lot of sense.
The WhatsApp one was less knownabout in advance.
In fact, it happened in myfirst week at GWI and I was
rushed to go and talk about iton a TV channel because people
were just taken aback by it.
But in both cases they wereincredibly strategic moves.
(07:08):
If you look at the top fourplatforms in the UK today, they
are Facebook, facebook Messenger, instagram and WhatsApp.
So Facebook has got well, sorry, meta has got all of them.
Even more pertinent than Iwould say, nine in 10 Brits aged
16 to 64 are on at least one ofthose four platforms and among
(07:32):
GenZ it's 96% who are using oneof the Meta platforms.
So put 100 GenZs in a room, 96of them are going to be on one
of those four services.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Do those other four don't have a phone.
What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I know right, it does make you wonder.
There is still that hardcoredemographic that avoids social,
so that must be where they whataccounts for those four.
But yeah, it's hard to sayanything negative about those
decisions.
They were very, very smartmoves and Facebook has a very
strong track record of seeingwhat's growing in popularity and
(08:09):
either acquiring it ordeveloping features that are
going to compete with it.
So the fact that they acquiredthose two services meant they
could just enjoy the organicgrowth that was coming from them
and give both of those servicesthe investment, the support,
the infrastructure that comeswith being owned by Meta.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
So we know that it's not just about sharing photos
and stories and crazy cat videos.
It's about messaging as well.
So let's look at FacebookMessenger, which is obviously up
there.
There's a lot of daylightbetween the other messaging
platforms.
How does it compare withApple's iMessage?
It's under fire at the momentfor not being completely
compatible with non-iPhone, butwhere does where the other
messaging platforms fit in, withMessenger, for example?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah, messenger is an interesting one In terms of
just being a pure messagingplatform.
It's never quite competed withWhatsApp, and that's true in
most of the countries thatyou'll go to.
There are some exceptions.
Nevertheless, like I said,facebook Messenger is one of the
top four services.
It is pretty popular and itdoes outrank iMessage if you
(09:10):
stack them all up.
So Facebook Messenger in the UKwould come third.
Imessage stacks up around aboutseventh.
Actually, though, if you goyounger and look at Gen Z, that
flips and iMessage overtakesMessenger.
I think, especially for thoseyounger generations, but
actually for most of us, ifyou're looking for pure
messaging, you're probably gonnago with WhatsApp or something
(09:32):
else.
It's now the other uses ofFacebook Messenger that I think
have kept it relevant and keepit in that leading pack.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Now, what's amazing since I spoke with Tom back in
season four is you just haveamazing access to these stats.
It might be worth talking aboutthe methodology the statue
reeling off here.
You've clearly got fromsomewhere.
How do you capture this wealthof information and make sense of
it?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Sure.
So if we focus in on the UKeach year, we interview around
about 50,000 UK consumers everyquarter with a trending set of
questions that asks them, like Isaid at the outset, what social
media services are you using?
Which is your favorite?
Why are you using them?
How much time do you think youspend on them?
(10:12):
We can, because we ask the samequestions in the same way every
three months.
We can see how trends aregrowing, decreasing or staying
the same.
All the answers areself-reported, so people take
surveys.
They know what their idea isdisclosing and it's from their
perception.
So if we ask them roughly howlong do you think you spend on
(10:33):
Facebook per day?
It's their estimate.
We're not tracking them ormonitoring them.
Anyway, it's all self-reported,voluntarily disclosed data.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
I'm sure if I looked at my Apple screen time, it
would tell me exactly how long Ispend on these apps.
In fact, I actually have an appcalled Rescue Time and it's now
got smarter and smarter.
It can actually tell youexactly what you're working on,
whether it's positive ornegative, and when I look at it
it kind of scares me to thinkwell, how much time I'm spending
on social media.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I know, right, I mean .
What blows my mind is thatpeople estimate that they spend
about two hours per day onsocial, and that's almost
certainly underreported.
So what the actual true timewould be.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I think many of us wouldn't want to know, so
probably my favoritenon-business social network is
Instagram, and I'm a Gen X, sohow popular is Instagram and
what are the key demographicsthat use it?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Instagram very, very popular.
Overall in the UK it ranksfourth about six in 10.
People in the UK are using it,but pretty much the younger you
go, the higher up the rankingsit will go, and for Gen Z at the
moment in the UK it's my numberone platform.
It's also seen as veryculturally influencing, so it's
(11:41):
definitely seen as one of thetrend-setting platforms.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
And what can compete with that?
Because it's very image-based.
I mean Snapchat.
I don't know about that.
Where does Snapchat andInstagram?
Do they fight with each other,or is it just Instagram all the
way?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
It's a difficult one, isn't it?
Because generally, socialplatforms have become known for
not niches, but you migrate toone for certain things more than
the other.
Instagram, very closelyassociated with pictures, TikTok
, videos, Snapchat's sort of abit of everything.
But again, the younger you go,the more popular Snapchat is.
(12:17):
And actually, when we weretalking about acquisitions
earlier, you have to think thatmaybe meta regrets not managing
to get Snapchat when they weretrying to woo Evan Spiegel all
of those years ago, becauseSnapchat hasn't taken off so
much in the older demographicsbut in the youngest generations
and in today's teens as well,it's still a very, very popular
(12:39):
app.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
One thing that amazes me is the content.
So I know a lot of people.
I'm a bit of a purist.
I like filming things inlandscape, which is 16 by nine
television format.
A lot of people film it inportrait or vertical mode.
I read recently that creatorsare now favoring the 16 by nine
for TikTok.
Are you seeing any stats thatsupport video formats and what's
popular and why?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
We don't go down to the sort of dimension level, but
we do go to sort of category,and the preference for videos is
very, very clear If you look atwhich features are being used
most.
They all.
All the reporting data we getleans towards people favoring
videos.
It's just a more engaging wayto consume content and the fact
(13:24):
that people can pull in videosfrom all the types of genres
that they're looking for theycan watch sports and news and
comedy all within their socialfeeds.
It's like an aggregator service.
Bringing in the content theywant to consume just makes it
wildly popular.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
So TikTok's out there .
What would you say the biggestdemographic?
What would you say the biggestdemographics that use TikTok?
And is this cannibalizingInstagram and Snapchat over time
?
Speaker 2 (13:50):
At the moment, tiktok is definitely a younger
person's app, so Gen Z, genAlpha are the biggest consumers
of it, but you have to expectthat to broaden over time.
Most social platforms startlike this the earliest adopters
are the youngest generations,and then you see it broadening,
just like Facebook itself hasdone.
(14:11):
The fact that TikTok is soconcentrated on video means it
does have an obvious growthtrajectory throughout the older
generations, because allgenerations favor that.
So TikTok is definitely one towatch, but it's not necessarily
the case of as one rises,another one falls.
(14:33):
What we've always found in ourdata is that people are very
comfortable beingmulti-networkers, so, on average
, using seven, eight, maybe evennine different platforms
throughout the day or week,depending on what exact behavior
or actions they're looking todo.
So as TikTok grows, it mightcannibalize a little bit of the
(14:56):
video content that's going on inthe other platforms, but don't
expect them to stand still anddon't expect people to only go
to one place for a certain typeof thing.
We also have to remember thatwhen you're logging into these
platforms, you're notnecessarily choosing what you
see in your feed.
A lot of it's being served toyou.
So if a platform sees an areawhere they might feel a threat.
(15:17):
It's very easy for them to upthe curated content that's
coming to you to push you moreback that way.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
So we're sitting here in the UK.
Obviously, I'm Australian.
Facebook started in the US.
So let's look at thedifferences between Facebook in
the UK, us, eu, even Australia.
Where do you see thedifferences?
And is it regional?
Is it cultural?
Give us a view on where itdepends.
Give us a view on how itchanges as we look across
different countries.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Sure, so across those sets of countries, but actually
across far more countries thanthat, you tend to see very
similar patterns.
It only really gets disruptedin a handful of places where
there might be an importantlocal player or there might be
restrictions, which preventssome of the services we're
talking about operating.
So in Australia, uk, eu, us, inall of those countries, between
(16:09):
70 to 80% of the populationsare using it.
Australia does top the table, Ihave to say Correct 78%, but
none of the others areparticularly far behind, and
broadly.
I don't normally likegeneralizations like this, but
broadly it holds true.
What we would call the Westernmarkets or the most mature
economies all behave fairlysimilarly.
(16:31):
Sure, with some exceptions,like WhatsApp has never really
taken hold in the US, but theprofiles are broadly the same.
In your emerging economies,again, they all sort of cluster
together digital firstpopulation, so you'll actually
probably see higher adoptionrates among internet users there
.
Within the countries you askedme about, the overall adoption
(16:55):
might be the same, but some ofthe behaviors or features that
people are using are a littleregional specific.
So in Australia I looked at thestats before so I knew you were
going to ask me about thisThings like marketplace are more
popular than the others Groups,events.
Those types of things are moreused by Australians than the
others.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
So think about what's up in the US fascinates me A
lot of US friends and while theyuse the ones that are here use
what's up a lot, when they goback they'll say I know one uses
what's up.
Why is that?
And what is used in the USinstead?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Do you know?
I have never managed to get tothe bottom of this we have an
office in the US as well, so Ispeak to my colleagues in New
York all the time about it.
So, as international travellers, we'll all use what's up
whenever we're travellingtogether.
That's how we communicate, butfor communication inside the US
it still seems to be acombination of messenger or just
iMessage Text yeah, I'll textyou.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
So we know that Facebook relies on advertising
to survive.
Do you have any insights on howeffective Facebook advertising
in 2024 is compared to, say, 10years ago?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
It's a tricky one to answer because obviously
Facebook or Metta itself willhave an unrivaled view of how
it's doing.
What I would say is that timespent on social overall has
continued to trend upwards orremain very high and stable.
More and more time spent onlineis via a mobile, and, although
(18:20):
there were a couple of closedshaves a few years back, the
social networks have managed toovercome ad blockers and the
other things that might have hada real impact there.
So all the stats I see showthat advertising is working
there better than ever.
They're able to curate theirads better.
They're able to use all of thedata they hold to serve the most
(18:42):
relevant things.
Relatively few people opt outwhenever there's a new push for
privacy and actually, with theimpending death of the cookie,
it's been dying for years, butthis year may well be the year
that it finally gets fullykilled off you would have to
argue that the social networksare very well placed to
(19:02):
capitalise on that.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
It's all about first party data and if you're on a
social network, you're givingaway your first party data
Exactly, whether you know thator not, yeah, or if you know, it
is first party data, so yourresearch spans many years.
What's Facebook used for nowversus, say, 10 and 20 years ago
?
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, I mean, I do know what.
I was actually at Oxford whenFacebook first came to the UK.
It started over here in Oxfordand Cambridge, so I saw that
early wave of behaviour and itis now, in hindsight, bizarre to
think how people were using it.
People spent their days pokingeveryone, posting every photo
(19:40):
they'd ever taken in their life,inviting everyone they knew to
every event they could think of.
It was the place where youliterally went and seemed to
dump every bit of informationyou were holding in your head at
the time and for many yearsreally, that continued.
As Facebook itself has got older, I think its usage has matured
(20:01):
as well, and a lot of thebehaviour that we were pulling
out there for everyone to see isnow much more curated.
A lot of stuff is postedprivately via services like
WhatsApp.
We know why and how we're usingsocial networks, so we're a bit
more intelligent.
Ironically, you do see boomersbehaving a little bit like
(20:24):
millennials were back in the day, still maybe posting things
they might regret orover-sharing.
Really, I think overall, socialnetworking has become more
specialised.
We are smarter at it and weknow which services to go to,
for which types of things andwhen.
I log into Facebook.
(20:44):
Now I know the types of peoplethat will have posted and I know
what they will be posting about.
It's become much morepredictable and there are
patterns.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Some years ago, this tab appeared on my Facebook page
.
It said marketplace.
I wonder, what is that?
And your insights point to thefact that one of the secondary
uses of Facebook has becomecommerce, with Facebook
marketplace becoming quitepopular Now.
As an aside, I was speaking toa friend last night.
She's moved house, she's tryingto get rid of a desk.
She's using Facebookmarketplace.
She says it's a very badexperience.
(21:16):
Another one is to use a gumtree and eBay.
Now I had to think about thisand I'm interested in your
insights, but also your view onthis, because Facebook
marketplace doesn't seem to havea rating system.
No one cares, no one turns up,whereas gum tree and eBay we
rate each other.
So if you don't turn up, youdon't pay, you get penalised.
So first of all, you can maybelook at where Facebook
(21:37):
marketplace has evolved and whatyou see as differences between
those sorts of differentmarketplaces.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, I mean instantly.
I've been using gum tree thisweek and I'm not sure that
rating system works very well.
If you look at it from a purestats point of view, somewhere
like eBay is obviously the mostpopular to be selling things.
About 50% of Brits are usingthat.
About a quarter of us are usingFacebook marketplace.
Smaller percentages are usingthings like vintage gum tree,
(22:06):
but they're on the rise.
I think probably the mostsignificant stat is in our
ongoing research 15% in the UKsay that they purchase
secondhand items online on aweekly basis.
So there is a big market for itand Facebook marketplace.
Obviously it wasn't an accidentthat it evolved into this, but I
(22:27):
don't think it was one of theoriginal purposes.
It was probably anopportunistic reaction to what
was going on and the fact thatyou can connect with people in
your local area who are alreadysigned up to that gives you a
very big reach and there's somefamiliarity that goes with
selling within there.
I would say the unrealliability of marketplace is no
(22:51):
better or worse really than mostof the others, maybe with eBay
as the exception, but a lot ofthe others.
It's kind of much of a muchnessand you're listeners are
probably aware of the whispersthat are coming through that the
UK government is looking tocapitalise on the secondhand
(23:11):
selling thing, and actuallyFacebook is probably one of the
places that might benefit fromthat.
It's not been asked so far tosubmit records like some of the
others had, so actually it mightbecome even more popular for
secondhand selling, at least inthe short term.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Interesting insight there.
Let's turn that off.
Let's turn now to Connections.
Many of us use Facebook forConnections and connecting with
each other.
What has your research shown inthis area?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Again, it's different services for different things.
So one of the questions we askis like why do you go to, or
which platform do you go to ifyou're looking to do this type
of thing?
And one of the things we askabout is connect with friends or
family, and Facebook andFacebook Messenger are still
very central to that, I thinkbecause of the
cross-generational appeal ofFacebook.
(24:01):
If you're a younger person,chances are your relatives from
older generations that you wantto connect with are on Facebook.
Many of them may not be on theother services, but there's a
difference.
I think.
If you're talking aboutday-to-day communications with
your smaller network, you'reprobably going to WhatsApp or
texting.
Facebook, I think, is for thattier of people slightly more
(24:26):
removed, with whomcommunications is not so
frequent, but it is seen as avery important place to connect
with your family and keep intouch with them.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
As I said, my parents look at it.
My 88-year-old father replieson my stories.
I wake up and he's commentedonce again on the Albert Bridge,
so I know that they use it Now.
Interestingly, I didn't teachthem how to use Story or
Messenger, they just worked itout.
So the boomers actually canself-educate.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Some more success than other.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
based on my mother-in-law, I'd say but so 20
years is a long time for asocial network to exist in.
How has Facebook shaped socialmedia?
Speaker 2 (25:09):
I think it's hard to appreciate quite how much
Facebook has influenced things.
I mean for those who are around.
You'll remember it wasn't thefirst.
There were other things outthere.
God bless my space and FriendsReunited and the other names are
no longer with us.
Facebook could have gone thesame way, but it didn't.
(25:29):
It capitalized on our need tosort of consume more and see
beyond the network that wasdefined by our old school
friends or niche communities.
It really managed to pulleveryone in, from the younger
demographic and then, over time,has stayed relevant so that all
the older generations, oneafter the other, have come into
(25:50):
the fold as well.
It proved that a social networkcould be cross-generational and
it proved that it was anincredibly attractive place for
advertisers to come and speak topeople, which allowed all of
the other social networks reallyto follow in its wake.
There's a question that we'veasked in a recent wave about how
(26:10):
sort of influential andculturally important people
think various services are, and,my goodness, facebook is right
up there.
People do think Instagram'sslightly more influential, but
people think that they spendthat.
People in the UK generallyspend most time on Facebook and
(26:30):
if we ask people about theirconversations in the last week
that might have mentioned asocial network or been caused by
something they saw on a socialnetwork, facebook comes out as
the top one, so just hugelyinfluential and still more
pertinent over our day-to-daylives now than I think it's
given credit for.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
You mentioned there that Instagram is somewhat more
influential.
How do you measure thatinfluence?
Speaker 2 (26:55):
So this is where it comes to self-perceptions, right
.
This is what consumers acrossthe UK think when we ask them
about it, and it's kind ofself-perpetuating.
As soon as you hear thatsomething like Instagram is
considered influential, yousuddenly I think it's like
self-serving.
You then think, yes, of courseit is, and that sets the trends.
(27:15):
So I would say it also helps, Ithink, how often social feeds
and snippets are now shown inmedia stories and on the news.
So you're seeing Instagram andFacebook content break out of
its confines and influence mediamore widely.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
So, jason, I've got a sample size of 1.
N equals 1.
What is your most popularsocial media network and why For
me?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
personally, it's got to be Instagram.
Why is that?
I have to say I'm a lurker, nota poster.
I find it a very good way tokill a couple of minutes without
being too sucked in.
I think if you go to TikTok,the rabbit hole is a bit too
strong, whereas on Instagram Ifind it quite easy just to stop.
So I only spend as much timethere as I want to.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
You'll have to tell me how to stop scrolling on
Instagram.
I haven't quite mastered thatyet.
So we're here to talk about thefuture Facebook at 20,.
With an eye on the future, whatsocial media trends are you
seeing and who do you think willbe the dominant social network
in 2024 and beyond?
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Amazing question.
So I mean there are so manytrends that we need to keep an
eye on.
Who wins the video battle, orat least who continues emerging
as the winners, is going to bekey.
We know that many of theplatforms consider themselves to
be the leading place for videocontent, so there's going to be
more innovation and attention onthere.
(28:38):
Obviously, everyone is lookingat the metaverse to see what
happens.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Still, really 2024?
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Didn't that die last year?
Well, not according to somepeople, but I think it is a
classic case of the industry, orcertain people in the industry
think consumers are ready forsomething and want it, and
actually most consumers arelargely apathetic.
For sure, it has some very gooduse cases.
If you're a gamer, you're goingto be much more of a fan than
if you're someone like me whodoesn't spend any time gaming at
(29:08):
all.
But I think there's much morehype around it from media than
there is actual interest fromconsumers.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Are you asking questions in your survey now,
which calls out the minivers?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
We are and interestingly this year,
something like AI is a goodexample.
This year, for the first time,concerns about AI have overtaken
interest in AI and, I think,metaverse.
There is interest, but it's notbeen growing strongly enough
(29:41):
and almost like the other sideof apathy is starting to rise up
.
So unless people see quitequickly the real benefit or
enjoyment that can come from themetaverse, it's going to be a
bit of an uphill battle.
Other than that, interesting tosee how the battle between
TikTok, instagram and Snapchatplays out between the youngest
(30:04):
generations, because whateverthey go for will influence all
of us who keep an eye on thisand where brands want to hang
out.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Is there another network that's bubbling up, or
are the ones we mentioned today?
That's it.
No one's going to really winthe game anymore.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I'd say there's nothing as globally important as
something like a TikTok.
If you were to look at adoptionof Discord, it's going up very
strongly, but from quite a smallbase.
The way TikTok has explodedinto the leading pack does not
happen very often.
It was the same when Snapchatcame along.
It's once in a while that yousee something like that and of
(30:41):
course, we probably shouldmention X.
Sorry, what?
Speaker 1 (30:45):
I'm just throwing a list of it.
That's what we used to callTwitter, but most of us still
call Twitter Yep.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
To see what happens there.
I saw a news story last nightshowing that an influencer had
been tempted to post a video andmade a lot of money.
I suspect there might be somerowing back on the frosty words
that have been said aboutadvertisers, because I think
it's becoming clearer thatadvertising is the key part of
(31:11):
the funding for X slash.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Twitter, so we're almost out of time.
We're up to my favorite part ofthe show, the quick fire round
will be learned more about ourguests.
I'm going to throw some quickquestions at you.
Are you ready?
I think iPhone or Android,absolutely iPhone.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Window or aisle Looking by myself, window In the
room or in the middle of us,100% in the room.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
What's your biggest?
Oh, by the way, we're recordingthis in person, so that
probably proves that what's yourbiggest hope for this year and
next?
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Oh, my goodness, that I get better at using AI in my
daily life.
We talk about that off here.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
So my next question.
Thank you for the segue.
I wish that AI could do all ofmy you see, I think it could do
everything.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
I just haven't got the time or headspace yet to
actually make it do it.
Like my shopping lists and mytravel plans.
It could do all of that for me,but I'm not using it.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Just ask, chej APT.
Yeah, I need the time to dothat.
What's the app you use most onyour phone?
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Workphone Slack personal phone Instagram.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
Speaker 2 (32:18):
People want insights, not data.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
What are you reading at the moment?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
I should say something high-routed, shouldn't
I?
I'm actually reading this IsGonna Hurt by Adam Kay.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Who shall I invite next on to the podcast?
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Someone who can give us a definitive answer about the
post cookie landscape and whatit means.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Okay, if anyone there get in touch.
How do you want to beremembered?
Speaker 2 (32:46):
A good boss, a nice colleague and someone who was
all right at getting insightsout of data.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
So, as this is the actionable future, as podcast,
what three actionable thingsshould our audience do today to
prepare and better understandthe power of social networking?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
If you haven't tried one of the main apps, download
it for a day and at least have ago to understand what it's like
.
If you've never been down arabbit hole on TikTok, try going
down one just to see the powerof video and understand quite
how many different socialplatforms we're all using.
(33:27):
It's not winner takes all.
It's winner takes a share.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Jason, a fascinating discussion.
I love the stats.
I love your insights.
How can we find out more aboutyou and your work?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
So usual places on socials, you'll find GWI, or
check out our website, which isGWIcom.
Jason, thank you so much foryour time.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
And happy birthday Facebook.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Yes indeed.
In today's episode, we're casting our minds back to
2004, when Nessa landed theSpirit Rover on Mars.
The last episode of Friends, Ed.
George W Bush was re-elected USPresident and the number one
hits were LMC's Take Me to theClouds Above in the UK and hey
Ya by Outcast in the US.
Over at Harvard University,computer science student Mark
(00:22):
Zuckerberg is coding in his dormroom.
Lately he's been nurturing areputation as a minor un-fonte
terribile on campus aftercreating a short-lived site,
FaceMash, which allowed studentsto rate each other's hotness.
Today, Wednesday 4th February,he's about to push publish on
the Facebook, which would laterbecome simply Facebook.
So what does Facebook look likeat 20?
(00:44):
What can we learn from thissocial networking phenomenon?
To help me answer this and more, I'm joined today by Jason
Mander, Chief Research Officerat Leading Global Consumer
Research Platform, GWI, to diveinto their vast research
platform and take a deep dive onFacebook at 20.
(01:06):
Welcome, Jason.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Thank you, it's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Now back in Season 4, Episode 1, we actually had your
CEO, Tom Smith, on the showspeaking about the future of
market research.
But for those not familiar withGWI, could you give us an
overview of what you do?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah, absolutely so.
As you mentioned, gwi is aglobal consumer research
platform.
Each year, we're speaking tomillions of people across more
than 50 countries, asking them awide range of questions about
their digital lives andlifestyles so pertinent to today
.
What social media are you using?
What phones you have?
How are you interacting withbrands?
Which apps are in and out atthe moment?
(01:42):
We compile that together, usetechnology to serve it in a
platform to allow our clients toget a 360 view of how people
are feeling, what they're doingand what the opportunities are
for brands.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Now let's turn to Facebook.
At 20, you've been looking atthe social network for some time
now.
I know you've developed anumber of key takeaways using
your unique insights platform.
So let's look at thedemographics of Facebook.
If I look at my own use of theplatform, I'm a Gen X.
I'd say I'm mainly used to keepup with friends and family back
in Australia.
I know my parents, reggie, lookat my stories and posts.
(02:15):
Ironically, they're all postedvia Instagram, but it helps them
keep up with my activities inLondon.
So let's maybe look at how thedifferent generations have
changed over the last years andwhat groups of people use it
today.
So maybe, looking at yourresearch, you could tell us
what's changed over the lastfive, 10, 15, 20 years for
boomers, gen X, gen Y and Gen Z.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Not too much to cover .
Then let's start with someoverall pictures.
So in the UK at the moment,three quarters of us use
Facebook every month, which is,I think, quite an impressive
figure.
It's about two thirds of us useit on a weekly basis and about
half of us are using it daily.
So to set the record straight,facebook adoption is still very
(02:57):
strong.
It's still very popular.
Look within generations andthere are differences and
there's definitely beendifferent adoption curves over
the last two decades.
So the recent growth perhapsunsurprisingly has come from
boomers.
If we were to look at the lastdecade, their usage is up by
about 20%, so 20% more peopleusing it in that cohort than
(03:20):
before, and within that groupit's a very clear favorite.
As you go into youngergenerations, there's more of a
pack at the front competing witheach other In boomers.
Very much Facebook is theirgo-to place and there's still
more growth to come in thatgroup.
About two thirds of them areusing Facebook at the moment.
If you were to compare that to,let's say, instagram, about a
(03:41):
third of boomers.
Tiktok only about a tenth ofboomers.
So very much Facebook is aclear playground for boomers.
More growth to come.
At the other end of the spectrum.
There has been a decrease inGen Z or Z or students, using
the platform.
To be clear, a lot of them arestill on it.
Still about two thirds of themare on Facebook in some form,
(04:05):
but that does represent adecrease from what we would have
seen 10 or 20 years ago.
So what that tells us is thatGen Z haven't been adopting it
in quite the same way as thecohorts who went before them
have.
In the middle we have yourMillennials and your Gen Xs,
where, largely, adoption hasremained stable, certainly over
(04:25):
the last 10 years.
It's still a very popularplatform.
About three-quarters of both ofthose generations are using it.
We haven't seen the declinesthat we've seen in the younger
groups, but we have seen anarray of other platforms explode
onto the scene that now competewith Facebook.
So for those cohorts, probably,usage of Facebook has become
more specialized.
(04:46):
They're perhaps not using it asfrequently or intensively as
they once did, but they're stillvery much on it.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Now demographics, and social demographics is
something I'm really interestedin.
We've had a number of peopletalk about the different
generations, so we've talkedabout boomers, x, y, z and Z.
We've now got the alphas andthe beaters.
What are they doing withFacebook?
Do they even care aboutFacebook?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
They yeah, they do.
I mean, I've been working withthis type of data for about 15
years and pretty much every oneof those years especially in my
last decade you'll see headlinessaying Facebook is dead.
Facebook is dying.
People are deserting Facebookand really it doesn't stack up
and that is still true amongtoday's younger consumers, if we
(05:32):
talk specifically about 13 or15 or 15 year olds, because many
platforms still have a limitthat means you need to be 13 or
older.
Facebook and Facebook Messengerare not the most popular among
those groups, but still aroundhalf of that demographic are on
Facebook.
For a platform that's 20 yearsold, I'd say it's pretty
(05:53):
impressive to still have thatreach.
Very clearly, though, for thekids, it's a battle between
TikTok and Instagram, forTopspot and Snapchat is chasing
very, very closely on theirheels.
So those are the threeplatforms in favour with
children, but they still seevalue in Facebook.
Yes, you'll hear them talkabout it ironically.
(06:14):
Yes, you'll hear them probablymock older people for using
Facebook in certain ways, butthey're still on there.
They're still logging inlooking at what's going on.
So it's not dead.
It's just not as popular assome of the alternatives.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Now, many would know that Meta actually owns Facebook
as well as Instagram andWhatsApp, and someone argued
that their billion-dollarpurchase of Instagram in 2012,
and their $16 billion purchaseof WhatsApp in 2014 was quite
strategic.
Does your research support that?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Absolutely.
I think most people saw theInstagram acquisition coming and
it made a lot of sense.
The WhatsApp one was less knownabout in advance.
In fact, it happened in myfirst week at GWI and I was
rushed to go and talk about iton a TV channel because people
were just taken aback by it.
But in both cases they wereincredibly strategic moves.
(07:08):
If you look at the top fourplatforms in the UK today, they
are Facebook, facebook Messenger, instagram and WhatsApp.
So Facebook has got well, sorry, meta has got all of them.
Even more pertinent than Iwould say, nine in 10 Brits aged
16 to 64 are on at least one ofthose four platforms and among
(07:32):
GenZ it's 96% who are using oneof the Meta platforms.
So put 100 GenZs in a room, 96of them are going to be on one
of those four services.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Do those other four don't have a phone.
What are you doing?
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I know right, it does make you wonder.
There is still that hardcoredemographic that avoids social,
so that must be where they whataccounts for those four.
But yeah, it's hard to sayanything negative about those
decisions.
They were very, very smartmoves and Facebook has a very
strong track record of seeingwhat's growing in popularity and
(08:09):
either acquiring it ordeveloping features that are
going to compete with it.
So the fact that they acquiredthose two services meant they
could just enjoy the organicgrowth that was coming from them
and give both of those servicesthe investment, the support,
the infrastructure that comeswith being owned by Meta.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
So we know that it's not just about sharing photos
and stories and crazy cat videos.
It's about messaging as well.
So let's look at FacebookMessenger, which is obviously up
there.
There's a lot of daylightbetween the other messaging
platforms.
How does it compare withApple's iMessage?
It's under fire at the momentfor not being completely
compatible with non-iPhone, butwhere does where the other
messaging platforms fit in, withMessenger, for example?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yeah, messenger is an interesting one In terms of
just being a pure messagingplatform.
It's never quite competed withWhatsApp, and that's true in
most of the countries thatyou'll go to.
There are some exceptions.
Nevertheless, like I said,facebook Messenger is one of the
top four services.
It is pretty popular and itdoes outrank iMessage if you
(09:10):
stack them all up.
So Facebook Messenger in the UKwould come third.
Imessage stacks up around aboutseventh.
Actually, though, if you goyounger and look at Gen Z, that
flips and iMessage overtakesMessenger.
I think, especially for thoseyounger generations, but
actually for most of us, ifyou're looking for pure
messaging, you're probably gonnago with WhatsApp or something
(09:32):
else.
It's now the other uses ofFacebook Messenger that I think
have kept it relevant and keepit in that leading pack.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Now, what's amazing since I spoke with Tom back in
season four is you just haveamazing access to these stats.
It might be worth talking aboutthe methodology the statue
reeling off here.
You've clearly got fromsomewhere.
How do you capture this wealthof information and make sense of
it?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Sure.
So if we focus in on the UKeach year, we interview around
about 50,000 UK consumers everyquarter with a trending set of
questions that asks them, like Isaid at the outset, what social
media services are you using?
Which is your favorite?
Why are you using them?
How much time do you think youspend on them?
(10:12):
We can, because we ask the samequestions in the same way every
three months.
We can see how trends aregrowing, decreasing or staying
the same.
All the answers areself-reported, so people take
surveys.
They know what their idea isdisclosing and it's from their
perception.
So if we ask them roughly howlong do you think you spend on
(10:33):
Facebook per day?
It's their estimate.
We're not tracking them ormonitoring them.
Anyway, it's all self-reported,voluntarily disclosed data.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
I'm sure if I looked at my Apple screen time, it
would tell me exactly how long Ispend on these apps.
In fact, I actually have an appcalled Rescue Time and it's now
got smarter and smarter.
It can actually tell youexactly what you're working on,
whether it's positive ornegative, and when I look at it
it kind of scares me to thinkwell, how much time I'm spending
on social media.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I know, right, I mean .
What blows my mind is thatpeople estimate that they spend
about two hours per day onsocial, and that's almost
certainly underreported.
So what the actual true timewould be.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I think many of us wouldn't want to know, so
probably my favoritenon-business social network is
Instagram, and I'm a Gen X, sohow popular is Instagram and
what are the key demographicsthat use it?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Instagram very, very popular.
Overall in the UK it ranksfourth about six in 10.
People in the UK are using it,but pretty much the younger you
go, the higher up the rankingsit will go, and for Gen Z at the
moment in the UK it's my numberone platform.
It's also seen as veryculturally influencing, so it's
(11:41):
definitely seen as one of thetrend-setting platforms.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
And what can compete with that?
Because it's very image-based.
I mean Snapchat.
I don't know about that.
Where does Snapchat andInstagram?
Do they fight with each other,or is it just Instagram all the
way?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
It's a difficult one, isn't it?
Because generally, socialplatforms have become known for
not niches, but you migrate toone for certain things more than
the other.
Instagram, very closelyassociated with pictures, TikTok
, videos, Snapchat's sort of abit of everything.
But again, the younger you go,the more popular Snapchat is.
(12:17):
And actually, when we weretalking about acquisitions
earlier, you have to think thatmaybe meta regrets not managing
to get Snapchat when they weretrying to woo Evan Spiegel all
of those years ago, becauseSnapchat hasn't taken off so
much in the older demographicsbut in the youngest generations
and in today's teens as well,it's still a very, very popular
(12:39):
app.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
One thing that amazes me is the content.
So I know a lot of people.
I'm a bit of a purist.
I like filming things inlandscape, which is 16 by nine
television format.
A lot of people film it inportrait or vertical mode.
I read recently that creatorsare now favoring the 16 by nine
for TikTok.
Are you seeing any stats thatsupport video formats and what's
popular and why?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
We don't go down to the sort of dimension level, but
we do go to sort of category,and the preference for videos is
very, very clear If you look atwhich features are being used
most.
They all.
All the reporting data we getleans towards people favoring
videos.
It's just a more engaging wayto consume content and the fact
(13:24):
that people can pull in videosfrom all the types of genres
that they're looking for theycan watch sports and news and
comedy all within their socialfeeds.
It's like an aggregator service.
Bringing in the content theywant to consume just makes it
wildly popular.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
So TikTok's out there .
What would you say the biggestdemographic?
What would you say the biggestdemographics that use TikTok?
And is this cannibalizingInstagram and Snapchat over time
?
Speaker 2 (13:50):
At the moment, tiktok is definitely a younger
person's app, so Gen Z, genAlpha are the biggest consumers
of it, but you have to expectthat to broaden over time.
Most social platforms startlike this the earliest adopters
are the youngest generations,and then you see it broadening,
just like Facebook itself hasdone.
(14:11):
The fact that TikTok is soconcentrated on video means it
does have an obvious growthtrajectory throughout the older
generations, because allgenerations favor that.
So TikTok is definitely one towatch, but it's not necessarily
the case of as one rises,another one falls.
(14:33):
What we've always found in ourdata is that people are very
comfortable beingmulti-networkers, so, on average
, using seven, eight, maybe evennine different platforms
throughout the day or week,depending on what exact behavior
or actions they're looking todo.
So as TikTok grows, it mightcannibalize a little bit of the
(14:56):
video content that's going on inthe other platforms, but don't
expect them to stand still anddon't expect people to only go
to one place for a certain typeof thing.
We also have to remember thatwhen you're logging into these
platforms, you're notnecessarily choosing what you
see in your feed.
A lot of it's being served toyou.
So if a platform sees an areawhere they might feel a threat.
(15:17):
It's very easy for them to upthe curated content that's
coming to you to push you moreback that way.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
So we're sitting here in the UK.
Obviously, I'm Australian.
Facebook started in the US.
So let's look at thedifferences between Facebook in
the UK, us, eu, even Australia.
Where do you see thedifferences?
And is it regional?
Is it cultural?
Give us a view on where itdepends.
Give us a view on how itchanges as we look across
different countries.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Sure, so across those sets of countries, but actually
across far more countries thanthat, you tend to see very
similar patterns.
It only really gets disruptedin a handful of places where
there might be an importantlocal player or there might be
restrictions, which preventssome of the services we're
talking about operating.
So in Australia, uk, eu, us, inall of those countries, between
(16:09):
70 to 80% of the populationsare using it.
Australia does top the table, Ihave to say Correct 78%, but
none of the others areparticularly far behind, and
broadly.
I don't normally likegeneralizations like this, but
broadly it holds true.
What we would call the Westernmarkets or the most mature
economies all behave fairlysimilarly.
(16:31):
Sure, with some exceptions,like WhatsApp has never really
taken hold in the US, but theprofiles are broadly the same.
In your emerging economies,again, they all sort of cluster
together digital firstpopulation, so you'll actually
probably see higher adoptionrates among internet users there
.
Within the countries you askedme about, the overall adoption
(16:55):
might be the same, but some ofthe behaviors or features that
people are using are a littleregional specific.
So in Australia I looked at thestats before so I knew you were
going to ask me about thisThings like marketplace are more
popular than the others Groups,events.
Those types of things are moreused by Australians than the
others.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
So think about what's up in the US fascinates me A
lot of US friends and while theyuse the ones that are here use
what's up a lot, when they goback they'll say I know one uses
what's up.
Why is that?
And what is used in the USinstead?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Do you know?
I have never managed to get tothe bottom of this we have an
office in the US as well, so Ispeak to my colleagues in New
York all the time about it.
So, as international travellers, we'll all use what's up
whenever we're travellingtogether.
That's how we communicate, butfor communication inside the US
it still seems to be acombination of messenger or just
iMessage Text yeah, I'll textyou.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
So we know that Facebook relies on advertising
to survive.
Do you have any insights on howeffective Facebook advertising
in 2024 is compared to, say, 10years ago?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
It's a tricky one to answer because obviously
Facebook or Metta itself willhave an unrivaled view of how
it's doing.
What I would say is that timespent on social overall has
continued to trend upwards orremain very high and stable.
More and more time spent onlineis via a mobile, and, although
(18:20):
there were a couple of closedshaves a few years back, the
social networks have managed toovercome ad blockers and the
other things that might have hada real impact there.
So all the stats I see showthat advertising is working
there better than ever.
They're able to curate theirads better.
They're able to use all of thedata they hold to serve the most
(18:42):
relevant things.
Relatively few people opt outwhenever there's a new push for
privacy and actually, with theimpending death of the cookie,
it's been dying for years, butthis year may well be the year
that it finally gets fullykilled off you would have to
argue that the social networksare very well placed to
(19:02):
capitalise on that.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
It's all about first party data and if you're on a
social network, you're givingaway your first party data
Exactly, whether you know thator not, yeah, or if you know, it
is first party data, so yourresearch spans many years.
What's Facebook used for nowversus, say, 10 and 20 years ago
?
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, I mean, I do know what.
I was actually at Oxford whenFacebook first came to the UK.
It started over here in Oxfordand Cambridge, so I saw that
early wave of behaviour and itis now, in hindsight, bizarre to
think how people were using it.
People spent their days pokingeveryone, posting every photo
(19:40):
they'd ever taken in their life,inviting everyone they knew to
every event they could think of.
It was the place where youliterally went and seemed to
dump every bit of informationyou were holding in your head at
the time and for many yearsreally, that continued.
As Facebook itself has got older, I think its usage has matured
(20:01):
as well, and a lot of thebehaviour that we were pulling
out there for everyone to see isnow much more curated.
A lot of stuff is postedprivately via services like
WhatsApp.
We know why and how we're usingsocial networks, so we're a bit
more intelligent.
Ironically, you do see boomersbehaving a little bit like
(20:24):
millennials were back in the day, still maybe posting things
they might regret orover-sharing.
Really, I think overall, socialnetworking has become more
specialised.
We are smarter at it and weknow which services to go to,
for which types of things andwhen.
I log into Facebook.
(20:44):
Now I know the types of peoplethat will have posted and I know
what they will be posting about.
It's become much morepredictable and there are
patterns.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Some years ago, this tab appeared on my Facebook page
.
It said marketplace.
I wonder, what is that?
And your insights point to thefact that one of the secondary
uses of Facebook has becomecommerce, with Facebook
marketplace becoming quitepopular Now.
As an aside, I was speaking toa friend last night.
She's moved house, she's tryingto get rid of a desk.
She's using Facebookmarketplace.
She says it's a very badexperience.
(21:16):
Another one is to use a gumtree and eBay.
Now I had to think about thisand I'm interested in your
insights, but also your view onthis, because Facebook
marketplace doesn't seem to havea rating system.
No one cares, no one turns up,whereas gum tree and eBay we
rate each other.
So if you don't turn up, youdon't pay, you get penalised.
So first of all, you can maybelook at where Facebook
(21:37):
marketplace has evolved and whatyou see as differences between
those sorts of differentmarketplaces.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, I mean instantly.
I've been using gum tree thisweek and I'm not sure that
rating system works very well.
If you look at it from a purestats point of view, somewhere
like eBay is obviously the mostpopular to be selling things.
About 50% of Brits are usingthat.
About a quarter of us are usingFacebook marketplace.
Smaller percentages are usingthings like vintage gum tree,
(22:06):
but they're on the rise.
I think probably the mostsignificant stat is in our
ongoing research 15% in the UKsay that they purchase
secondhand items online on aweekly basis.
So there is a big market for itand Facebook marketplace.
Obviously it wasn't an accidentthat it evolved into this, but I
(22:27):
don't think it was one of theoriginal purposes.
It was probably anopportunistic reaction to what
was going on and the fact thatyou can connect with people in
your local area who are alreadysigned up to that gives you a
very big reach and there's somefamiliarity that goes with
selling within there.
I would say the unrealliability of marketplace is no
(22:51):
better or worse really than mostof the others, maybe with eBay
as the exception, but a lot ofthe others.
It's kind of much of a muchnessand you're listeners are
probably aware of the whispersthat are coming through that the
UK government is looking tocapitalise on the secondhand
(23:11):
selling thing, and actuallyFacebook is probably one of the
places that might benefit fromthat.
It's not been asked so far tosubmit records like some of the
others had, so actually it mightbecome even more popular for
secondhand selling, at least inthe short term.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Interesting insight there.
Let's turn that off.
Let's turn now to Connections.
Many of us use Facebook forConnections and connecting with
each other.
What has your research shown inthis area?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Again, it's different services for different things.
So one of the questions we askis like why do you go to, or
which platform do you go to ifyou're looking to do this type
of thing?
And one of the things we askabout is connect with friends or
family, and Facebook andFacebook Messenger are still
very central to that, I thinkbecause of the
cross-generational appeal ofFacebook.
(24:01):
If you're a younger person,chances are your relatives from
older generations that you wantto connect with are on Facebook.
Many of them may not be on theother services, but there's a
difference.
I think.
If you're talking aboutday-to-day communications with
your smaller network, you'reprobably going to WhatsApp or
texting.
Facebook, I think, is for thattier of people slightly more
(24:26):
removed, with whomcommunications is not so
frequent, but it is seen as avery important place to connect
with your family and keep intouch with them.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
As I said, my parents look at it.
My 88-year-old father replieson my stories.
I wake up and he's commentedonce again on the Albert Bridge,
so I know that they use it Now.
Interestingly, I didn't teachthem how to use Story or
Messenger, they just worked itout.
So the boomers actually canself-educate.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Some more success than other.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
based on my mother-in-law, I'd say but so 20
years is a long time for asocial network to exist in.
How has Facebook shaped socialmedia?
Speaker 2 (25:09):
I think it's hard to appreciate quite how much
Facebook has influenced things.
I mean for those who are around.
You'll remember it wasn't thefirst.
There were other things outthere.
God bless my space and FriendsReunited and the other names are
no longer with us.
Facebook could have gone thesame way, but it didn't.
(25:29):
It capitalized on our need tosort of consume more and see
beyond the network that wasdefined by our old school
friends or niche communities.
It really managed to pulleveryone in, from the younger
demographic and then, over time,has stayed relevant so that all
the older generations, oneafter the other, have come into
(25:50):
the fold as well.
It proved that a social networkcould be cross-generational and
it proved that it was anincredibly attractive place for
advertisers to come and speak topeople, which allowed all of
the other social networks reallyto follow in its wake.
There's a question that we'veasked in a recent wave about how
(26:10):
sort of influential andculturally important people
think various services are, and,my goodness, facebook is right
up there.
People do think Instagram'sslightly more influential, but
people think that they spendthat.
People in the UK generallyspend most time on Facebook and
(26:30):
if we ask people about theirconversations in the last week
that might have mentioned asocial network or been caused by
something they saw on a socialnetwork, facebook comes out as
the top one, so just hugelyinfluential and still more
pertinent over our day-to-daylives now than I think it's
given credit for.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
You mentioned there that Instagram is somewhat more
influential.
How do you measure thatinfluence?
Speaker 2 (26:55):
So this is where it comes to self-perceptions, right
.
This is what consumers acrossthe UK think when we ask them
about it, and it's kind ofself-perpetuating.
As soon as you hear thatsomething like Instagram is
considered influential, yousuddenly I think it's like
self-serving.
You then think, yes, of courseit is, and that sets the trends.
(27:15):
So I would say it also helps, Ithink, how often social feeds
and snippets are now shown inmedia stories and on the news.
So you're seeing Instagram andFacebook content break out of
its confines and influence mediamore widely.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
So, jason, I've got a sample size of 1.
N equals 1.
What is your most popularsocial media network and why For
me?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
personally, it's got to be Instagram.
Why is that?
I have to say I'm a lurker, nota poster.
I find it a very good way tokill a couple of minutes without
being too sucked in.
I think if you go to TikTok,the rabbit hole is a bit too
strong, whereas on Instagram Ifind it quite easy just to stop.
So I only spend as much timethere as I want to.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
You'll have to tell me how to stop scrolling on
Instagram.
I haven't quite mastered thatyet.
So we're here to talk about thefuture Facebook at 20,.
With an eye on the future, whatsocial media trends are you
seeing and who do you think willbe the dominant social network
in 2024 and beyond?
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Amazing question.
So I mean there are so manytrends that we need to keep an
eye on.
Who wins the video battle, orat least who continues emerging
as the winners, is going to bekey.
We know that many of theplatforms consider themselves to
be the leading place for videocontent, so there's going to be
more innovation and attention onthere.
(28:38):
Obviously, everyone is lookingat the metaverse to see what
happens.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Still, really 2024?
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Didn't that die last year?
Well, not according to somepeople, but I think it is a
classic case of the industry, orcertain people in the industry
think consumers are ready forsomething and want it, and
actually most consumers arelargely apathetic.
For sure, it has some very gooduse cases.
If you're a gamer, you're goingto be much more of a fan than
if you're someone like me whodoesn't spend any time gaming at
(29:08):
all.
But I think there's much morehype around it from media than
there is actual interest fromconsumers.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Are you asking questions in your survey now,
which calls out the minivers?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
We are and interestingly this year,
something like AI is a goodexample.
This year, for the first time,concerns about AI have overtaken
interest in AI and, I think,metaverse.
There is interest, but it's notbeen growing strongly enough
(29:41):
and almost like the other sideof apathy is starting to rise up
.
So unless people see quitequickly the real benefit or
enjoyment that can come from themetaverse, it's going to be a
bit of an uphill battle.
Other than that, interesting tosee how the battle between
TikTok, instagram and Snapchatplays out between the youngest
(30:04):
generations, because whateverthey go for will influence all
of us who keep an eye on thisand where brands want to hang
out.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Is there another network that's bubbling up, or
are the ones we mentioned today?
That's it.
No one's going to really winthe game anymore.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I'd say there's nothing as globally important as
something like a TikTok.
If you were to look at adoptionof Discord, it's going up very
strongly, but from quite a smallbase.
The way TikTok has explodedinto the leading pack does not
happen very often.
It was the same when Snapchatcame along.
It's once in a while that yousee something like that and of
(30:41):
course, we probably shouldmention X.
Sorry, what?
Speaker 1 (30:45):
I'm just throwing a list of it.
That's what we used to callTwitter, but most of us still
call Twitter Yep.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
To see what happens there.
I saw a news story last nightshowing that an influencer had
been tempted to post a video andmade a lot of money.
I suspect there might be somerowing back on the frosty words
that have been said aboutadvertisers, because I think
it's becoming clearer thatadvertising is the key part of
(31:11):
the funding for X slash.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Twitter, so we're almost out of time.
We're up to my favorite part ofthe show, the quick fire round
will be learned more about ourguests.
I'm going to throw some quickquestions at you.
Are you ready?
I think iPhone or Android,absolutely iPhone.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Window or aisle Looking by myself, window In the
room or in the middle of us,100% in the room.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
What's your biggest?
Oh, by the way, we're recordingthis in person, so that
probably proves that what's yourbiggest hope for this year and
next?
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Oh, my goodness, that I get better at using AI in my
daily life.
We talk about that off here.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
So my next question.
Thank you for the segue.
I wish that AI could do all ofmy you see, I think it could do
everything.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
I just haven't got the time or headspace yet to
actually make it do it.
Like my shopping lists and mytravel plans.
It could do all of that for me,but I'm not using it.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Just ask, chej APT.
Yeah, I need the time to dothat.
What's the app you use most onyour phone?
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Workphone Slack personal phone Instagram.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
Speaker 2 (32:18):
People want insights, not data.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
What are you reading at the moment?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
I should say something high-routed, shouldn't
I?
I'm actually reading this IsGonna Hurt by Adam Kay.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Who shall I invite next on to the podcast?
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Someone who can give us a definitive answer about the
post cookie landscape and whatit means.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Okay, if anyone there get in touch.
How do you want to beremembered?
Speaker 2 (32:46):
A good boss, a nice colleague and someone who was
all right at getting insightsout of data.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
So, as this is the actionable future, as podcast,
what three actionable thingsshould our audience do today to
prepare and better understandthe power of social networking?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
If you haven't tried one of the main apps, download
it for a day and at least have ago to understand what it's like
.
If you've never been down arabbit hole on TikTok, try going
down one just to see the powerof video and understand quite
how many different socialplatforms we're all using.
(33:27):
It's not winner takes all.
It's winner takes a share.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Jason, a fascinating discussion.
I love the stats.
I love your insights.
How can we find out more aboutyou and your work?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
So usual places on socials, you'll find GWI, or
check out our website, which isGWIcom.
Jason, thank you so much foryour time.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
And happy birthday Facebook.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Yes indeed.
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