How can emerging technologies and critical thinking shape the future of business? Join us on Digitally Curious as we sit down with Arvind Ravishunkar, General Manager of Think Tank and Tech Strategy at Wipro.
Arvind offers an inside look at the groundbreaking projects at Wipro's innovation lab, Lab45, and discusses how the lab is pioneering new business models and sustainable practices. Discover how their Think Tank's new podcast, Unpacked, aims to make complex technical topics accessible, and why understanding technology at a fundamental level is crucial for modern business leaders.
Imagine a workplace where debate and critical thinking are not only encouraged but essential. Arvind explains the transformative power of monthly debates within their think tank, designed to challenge team members to see all sides of an issue, backed by data and evidence.
These debates sharpen minds and foster adaptability, preparing the team to navigate an unpredictable business landscape. He shares how knowledge-sharing sessions and a culture open to change are vital for fostering innovation and staying ahead.
The future of AI is here, and it's reshaping industries at an unprecedented pace. Arvind delves into the implications of AI integration, from Apple's latest partnerships to the broader trends in AI adoption. He underscores the importance of data quality and strategy in successful AI projects and shares his journey towards cultivating digital curiosity in his team.
Explore the far-reaching impacts of AI on job markets, the evolving role of educational institutions, and the necessity for responsible AI practices. Tune in for an episode rich with insights into the evolving landscape of technology and business leadership.
More on Arvid
Arvind on LinkedIn
Lab45 Think Tank
Unpacked podcast
Thanks for listening to Digitally Curious. You can buy the book that showcases these episodes at curious.click/order
Your Host is Actionable Futurist® Andrew Grill
For more on Andrew - what he speaks about and recent talks, please visit ActionableFuturist.com
Andrew's Social Channels
Andrew on LinkedIn
@AndrewGrill on Twitter
@Andrew.Grill on Instagram
Keynote speeches here
Pre-order Andrew's upcoming book - Digitally Curious
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Digitally Curious, a podcast to help you
navigate the future of AI andbeyond.
Your host is world-renownedfuturist and author of Digitally
Curious, Andrew Grill.
Andrew's guests will help youbecome more curious about the
latest tech and what's justaround the corner.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Today's guest is Arvind Ravishankar, general
Manager Think Tank and TechStrategy at Wipro.
He joined Wipro at thebeginning of 2023 and has
founded and built the Think Tankat Lab45.
He works at the intersection ofbusiness technology, customers
and the environment,specialising in strategic vision
and planning.
Over the last decade, he'shelped C-suite executives and
(00:43):
business leaders of Fortune 500companies, start-ups and non and
nonprofits uncover theirstrategic vision.
Welcome, arvind.
Thank you, andrew.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
So good to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Now it's probably fitting to say that I have raced
across town from the AI SummitLondon to be with you here today
.
I heard some very interestingspeakers from large corporates.
Perhaps you could tell us alittle bit more about the think
tank and Lab45.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
corporates.
Perhaps you could tell us alittle bit more about the think
tank and Lab45.
So I'll start with Lab45, theparent organization.
So Lab45 is Wipro's innovationlab.
So think of it similar to likeLab126 at Amazon, where it has a
broad charter to look atemerging technologies, existing
technologies and think about newproducts, new services and new
ways for Wipro to add value inthe world.
(01:27):
Right, that's the broadercharter of Lab45.
And within Lab45, think Tankspecifically focuses on helping
our customers figure out whatthose emerging technologies are.
Where do you deploy it?
What sort of business models doyou have to drive you deploy it
?
What sort of business models doyou have to drive?
And to make this even more real, what we do in the think tank
(01:47):
is, along with those insightsand strategic recommendations,
we also have a startupaccelerator where we can pair
emerging startups in those newtechnology areas with our
customers or interested folks sothat these strategies now
become actionable immediately.
(02:08):
So quite excited about whatwe're doing here and thank you
for the opportunity to talkabout it.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Is there a specific vision you have for the think
tank, our?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
vision is to inspire, educate and enable change
leaders in enterprises.
So the reason why we chosechange leaders as our customer
is because we believe that inthe next decade, leadership is
going to drastically change, andthe type of leaders you're
(02:40):
going to see emerge are onesthat are deeply focused and
rooted in emerging tech, butalso have this broader,
altruistic view of society andthe planet, and so those are the
type of leaders we cater to,and so that's our vision.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
How would you describe a change leader, and
why do you think they'reimportant for humanity?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Wow, I love the second part of the question.
Why are they important forhumanity?
You know, andrew, I think youknow when you look at the
evolution of business andleaders in business.
Leaders in business have notjust matured in terms of
understanding of the businessmodels and how to make money,
(03:24):
but over a span of time, leadershave also matured in terms of
the importance they place oncustomers, the society and the
planet overall.
Right, and this has beengrowing.
So in the 1900s, even up to thelate 70s, being able to make a
lot of money was sort of thepinnacle of a business leader,
(03:46):
right.
And then after that, in the 80s, 90s, 2000 timeframe technology
started playing a reallyimportant role.
So a business leader wassomeone who was able to make
money using technology.
Right, and we know a lot ofthose business leaders today.
In the last decade, there's ahuge movement towards customer
(04:07):
experience, and so in the lastdecade, business leaders have
not just focused on making moneyusing technology, but they
focus a lot on customerexperience, and we believe that
in this next decade, businessleaders will have to equally
focus on sustainability.
So sustainability and theplanet cannot be an afterthought
in your decisions.
(04:28):
It's got to be in the forefrontof your decision making and if
you see leaders like Tim Cook,that's exactly what they're
doing right In decisions Apple'smaking.
Sustainability is front, centerand core.
So that's who we think changeleaders are people who have
evolved to have those fourdisciplines within their
decision-making process.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So part of the initiatives you've got at the
Think Tank is this new podcast,and one of the reasons we're
talking is that I appeared onone of your episodes of the
podcast you've called Unpacked.
First of all, why did you callit Unpacked and how does the
podcast fit into Wipro's broadervision?
Speaker 3 (05:03):
These change leaders we speak about.
One of the things we do believeand actually this is true for
every leader today is that ifyou have to succeed in today's
world, your understanding oftechnology has to be more than
surface level.
You need to understand it atfirst principles, because you're
going to be making reallyimportant decisions, and
especially in the world of AI,where the technology could at
(05:28):
some point have the ability tomake decisions for us.
Unlike other technologies, aicould be autonomous.
It could be something withagency, and so it's really
important for a business leaderto understand the technology.
It's really important for abusiness leader to understand
the technology, and so Unpackedis designed to unpack technical
topics, but in a businesscontext, right.
(05:51):
So we unpack it from itsfundamentals, but we elevate it
to why that's relevant for abusiness leader.
So that's why we think we're alittle different from other
podcasts out there, where it'snot about the technology purely
or the business, but it's theconnection between those
fundamentals of technology andwhat it means to business, and
that's why it's called Unpacked.
We unpack many different topicsand relate it back to business.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Now you said a phrase in that last section that
pricked my ears up firstprinciples.
You know where I'm going withthis.
We're both engineers.
We were both taught in ourfirst engineering session
probably Engineering 101, tothink from first principles.
Now, for our audience who arenot engineers, could you explain
what it means to think fromfirst principles, how you apply
in your business and what's thebenefit of being able to think
(06:38):
about things from the firstprinciples?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Even before my engineering degree.
I have to thank my parents forthis, because they're the ones
who instilled first principlesthinking in me.
Right, and that's where Ilearned the concept.
The way I was taught was thesame using first principles.
So first principles,essentially, is to go down to
the fundamentals of any topicand understand what the
(07:00):
assumptions and the facts areright.
In any given subject that youlearn, there are a set of facts
and there are a set ofassumptions.
And when you go down to firstprinciple and understand the
facts, you can then decide ifyou want to change the
assumptions right.
So, for example, if anytechnology today, when you apply
(07:24):
the technology in your business, there are a set of assumptions
which help you apply thetechnology.
Now, if you purely understandthe technology only at the
assumption level and try toreplicate how it's being applied
somewhere else into your ownbusiness, the odds are that
you're not going to be verysuccessful.
But if you understand thetechnology from its first
(07:44):
principles what is it capable of, what is it not capable of?
Why has this technology evolvedto be what it is Then you can
apply it anywhere in businessand make the right decisions,
and so we've been applying thisto most of our podcasts.
We take a particular topic andwe break it down to those first
(08:05):
principles of what are the facts, what are the myths, what are
the things you need tounderstand so that you can apply
it anywhere you want.
And you know I think to a largedegree, even if you ask me for
an example today, a relevantexample when you look at Elon
Musk and when you read his bio.
Look at Elon Musk and when youread his biography on SpaceX and
(08:27):
what he's done, you know helearned what a rocket is from
first principles.
That's how he learned that, hey, I can possibly redesign this
right and I can make reusablerockets.
If not for that firstprinciples learning, spacex
would not exist.
So I think it's a very powerfultool.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
You know you triggered a memory there.
I thought I had learned firstprinciples at university but
like you, it was my parents, myfather, ron.
I'll give you a quick example.
In fact I put it in my bookDigitally Curious.
We sat down one day I think Iwas six years old, and we got
some little lights, three voltlamps, in a screw.
You screw the lamps in and theyhad terminals on either side.
(09:08):
So we fixed the battery, weconnected them in parallel and
they glowed quite brightly.
Then we collected them inseries and they were dim and my
father said do you know why thatis?
And he explained why it was.
And I remember I had a littlelog book and I wrote down the
output of the experiment.
And they were in parallel.
They glowed brightly, seriesthey glowed less brightly and
explained why.
And at six years old I nowrealize that dad was training me
about first principles.
And so in later life an examplethat may be relevant to some of
(09:30):
our listeners the Wi-Fi is notworking.
I'm the one that always peopleturn to and they say, andrew,
why isn't the Wi-Fi working?
So I go back to firstprinciples.
Go back to the router.
Do we have internet coming in?
Can you access a web page?
All those sort of things thatyou and I take for granted but
in later life, applying them inbusiness.
Why are we selling as manythings as we did?
Well, let's go back to have welooked at customer demand.
(09:52):
Is the product ready for market?
Is it priced properly?
All those sorts of things Ithink you know.
My engineering training hashelped me get out some sticky
situations, but also, I think,has shaped the way.
I think A follow-up question doyou instill critical thinking
and first principles into yourstaff as well, people that you
work with?
Speaker 3 (10:12):
It's such a good question, andrew.
You can't develop a think tankfor the world if you're not
applying that yourself.
And I'll give you some examplesof how in our think tank.
Give you some examples of how,in our think tank, we encourage
all of our staff to go down tofirst principles.
We have a debate program in ourthink tank where once a month we
(10:34):
pick a topic and our teamdivides into two and both teams.
What they do is they prepare anargument for and against the
topic so that teaches them howto look at this from two
different perspectives.
And then at the debate they'retold on a coin toss which side
they're going to take.
(10:54):
And both teams have to debatethe topic for and against.
And we debate based on data, wedebate based on evidence, and
so the critical.
There's no better way tounderstand a subject than
explain it to someone else orconvince someone else of it, and
so this is one way in which wedo it.
We use a debate format.
But even if you look at all thereports we write and when you
(11:19):
look at all the podcasts we doany topic.
We tend to start from thefundamentals and then work our
way up.
It's just how our team isdesigned up on what the world
(11:41):
needs, what the assumptions are,and then we built the
accelerator based on somefundamentals.
So we use it everywhere in ourown team.
We use it everywhere in our ownteam.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
I'm glad you're teaching your people how to
debate.
I started debating at an earlyage as well, probably around 10
years old, and I've actuallydebated things that I don't
believe in.
I've debated the other side andit's such a critical skill.
I think why now I love publicspeaking, I'm so comfortable on
stage is that at that early ageI was putting an argument
forward.
In fact, I remember the firstdebate I was in I was in grade
(12:09):
five, so around 10 years of age.
We were debating grade sevens.
They were 12 years old, and ourtopic was that zoos were good
for society.
And the three of us I think itwas Sue and Ben and I went to
the zoo and basically did ourresearch and had all the
arguments there and we won.
We won against the grade sevensand gosh, that was a good
feeling, not that we just we won, but we could actually
articulate an argument.
(12:29):
And, as I said, I've had timeswhere I've actually debated
things I don't believe in.
And if you can actually putthat argument forward and have a
compelling case, even if it'swrong, I think that's such an
important skill and I think ouryounger generation should be
taught about debating andcritical thinking at an early
age.
Do you agree?
I?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
100% agree, and I think what it does is it does a
couple of things.
It also teaches you to somedegree on how to be passionate
about something, but also how tobe distant enough so that
you're not colored by your ownopinion.
Right, and you're using facts,because if you have to convince
someone else or something, youcan't convince them based on
(13:08):
your emotional outbursts.
You have to have facts, youhave to have data, and so I
think debate teaches you that.
It teaches you how to bepassionate but, at the same time
, rational.
And you know, there's anotherpractice we've instilled, Andrew
, which I think is important,which is we do knowledge sharing
(13:30):
sessions.
So once a week, one of ourauthors, one of the papers, one
of our teams picks up somethingthat they have learned or
they're working on and theyshare it with the entire team.
And the culture we have builtis where anybody can challenge
(13:50):
them.
Anybody can open up a debateand it will not get personal
right and we debate the idea.
We don't debate the individualright, and that's really
important, and so this has alsohelped these knowledge sharing
sessions and this open culture.
It also helps a person buildingtheir ideas, because to have
someone push back helps youthink more critically about that
(14:12):
particular idea.
So I think these things helpand I think this should be, in
fact.
I'll come back to your firstquestion.
I have to confess that the ideaof the debate and starting this
debate within our team, it cameto me by talking to a
10-year-old.
This is 10-year-old, really,really intelligent 10-year-old.
(14:35):
I really love him and he's myfriend's son and when we meet up
we chat, we almost chat liketwo friends, and he was telling
me about the debate club he's inat school and that got me
thinking right.
I'm like, wow, such a cool idea.
And I came in and we ran apilot in our think tank and it
(14:56):
worked out great and so it'sbeen amazing since then.
So, yes, kids can teach you andkids do need to learn how to
debate.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Now in the world at the moment there's so much
uncertainty.
We're not sure what's going on.
40% of the world are going tothe polls.
There could be change ofgovernment.
We've got AI here.
I think you and I are similar.
We actually embrace change, welike change, we like entropy, a
state of uncertainty.
Why do you think it's soimportant to embrace change in a
time of uncertainty?
Is that not counterproductive?
Speaker 3 (15:24):
The change itself is inevitable, right?
I don't think.
The interesting thing is that,as humans, I don't think we have
a choice about change.
The only choice we have is howwe respond to that change.
We really don't have a choiceabout the change itself.
And we know that change isgoing to come, and it's going to
(15:47):
come big in the next decade.
So we can choose to embrace itor we can choose to push back.
And you know there's a.
If you don't mind, I'm going totake a minute to go into
philosophy.
There's a philosopher who talksabout the difference between a
blade of grass and a large tree.
(16:09):
So when a huge gust of windblows, when it blows to the
blade of grass, it does nothingto the blade of grass because of
how flexible it is and how itmoves Versus if there's a large
gust of wind, the odds of a treefalling off are a lot higher
because it resists that wind.
Right Now, I think the forcesaround us in the world are
(16:33):
always larger than who we are asa single human being, and so
being adaptable and embracingchange, I think, is a
fundamental quality that's goingto be even more important.
So, yeah, if you don't embracechange, the odds that the wind
will uproot you is very, veryhigh.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Let's just go back to the podcast.
The first series of the podcastis concentrated on generative
AI.
So, with Apple's recent launchof Apple Intelligence this week,
do you see this as the catalystfor bringing AI to the masses
and driving adoption, which willalso make its way into the
minds of senior leaders?
Speaker 3 (17:05):
very similar to electricity and because it's a
general purpose technology, theodds of it proliferating into
(17:27):
all aspects of our life is veryhigh.
So I think that's why this issuch a big game changer compared
to all the previous AIinventions.
See, ai has been around for awhile, right, andrew?
But when you look at all theprevious breakthroughs in
artificial intelligence, it wasmore narrow right, where AI was
only suitable for oneapplication that has been
developed.
The big breakthrough withgenerative AI is that, for the
(17:49):
first time, you're seeingartificial intelligence that can
be deployed across multipleapplications, which is also why
they're saying that it is thefirst glimpse of AGI, right?
The whole holy grail of AI isartificial general intelligence,
but I don't think we're thereyet, right?
However, it is showing theearly proof that it could be a
(18:11):
general purpose technology.
So, yes, it will proliferate.
Compared to all other AIbreakthroughs in the past, this
one we're going to see a lotmore everywhere we go.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
On Tuesday they had the Worldwide Developer
Conference keynote and unveiledwhat had been leaked weeks
before that Apple were going tointegrate a deeper level of AI
within their devices and alsohave a partnership with OpenAI
for ChatGPT.
I have some reflection, in fact.
I was thrilled.
On Wednesday afternoon the BBCcalled me and said could was
thrilled on Wednesday afternoonthe BBC called me and said could
(18:41):
you appear on the show tonight,live to talk about the
announcement.
So I managed to get a short hiton BBC.
Your initial view of that.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I was thrilled to see the announcement.
I'm so happy to see Apple in theAI game Because one of the
things Apple does so well isApple knows how to make a
technology accessible to theconsumer.
They do that so well and theypay such close attention to user
experience that I'm quiteexcited to experience Apple's
(19:13):
way of bringing AI to the market, to the market right.
And actually, you know, on thatbroader topic, andrew, of AI
coming into our everyday lives,if you know, microsoft also has
released Copilot plus PC, right,they made the announcement and
I think you're going to see alot more of this.
You're going to see a lot moreof integration of artificial
(19:34):
intelligence into computers,into your mobile phone
everywhere, into computers, intoyour mobile phone everywhere,
and I think that's going to beour first usage of mainstream AI
in our everyday life.
The agents, the co-pilots,they're all going to become a
part of our everyday life andthe way it's going to happen is
through the devices we use everyday, whether it's the mobile
(19:56):
phone or the tablet or the PC,whatever those are right.
So not surprised that Applemade the announcement, whatever
those are right.
So not surprised that Applemade the announcement, and I'm
really glad they did, and Ithink, in general, people should
look out for Microsoft, apple,google, all the top providers,
right?
Amazon I'm sure you're going tosee another version of Alexa
pretty soon, right?
(20:16):
So all of these, I think, aregoing to play a pretty critical
role in making us more AIfriendly.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Well, I've been talking about the promise of AI
assistants, or AI agents, for along time and I've been waiting
for all the pieces to slowlycome together and I think on
Tuesday night we got a lotcloser to seeing that and I'll
give you my reflections on why.
So, the things that are goingto be baked in actually iOS 18,
I've now got the developerversion on my phone and my
(20:44):
tablet, so I've actually seen it, but the AI stuff hasn't been
enabled yet.
That's coming.
I think someone suggested betathree for developers.
It might come in, so I can'tplay with it yet, so I'm relying
on what they've said.
But the sort of things that arebuilt in voice transcription I
use Otter for that.
Correcting documents I useGrammarly for that.
Looking at when my flights aredue I use TripIt for that.
(21:07):
So what's going to happen isall these multiple apps that
I've had to log in and give myinformation away and are not
connected.
I'm now going to givepermission and I have to trust
Apple is not going to misusethat.
But it's going to come down tothe one area.
And if I look at my own littleresearch I do every time I do a
keynote I did one on Wednesday.
(21:27):
I get everyone to stand up andI say, oh, stand up if you use
chat GPT, and most people standup.
I then say, stay standing ifyou use it every day, and most
people sit down.
Now I thought, is this justbecause of the audience I was
talking to?
I've done this from CaymanIsland to Luxembourg and I get
the same response every time,and about three weeks ago,
(21:49):
Reuters Institute of Journalismand Oxford University released a
survey for about 14,000 peoplefrom six different countries,
and the US has the highest dailyuse of generative AI, at around
6% to 8%.
Where I am in the UK, 2% to 5%.
So my very unscientific surveywas right and this is why I
think this is a game changer.
People haven't worked out how touse these tools in their daily
(22:12):
life because they have to have apurpose to do that, I think,
whether it's Apple or Google orAmazon, and you bake it into
something you're using every day, that's in your hand and knows
everything about you, I'm withyou.
I think this is a watershedmoment, because the average
consumer actually won't knowthat they're using AI for these
things.
I tell my audience at themoment if you unlock your phone,
(22:32):
you're using AI.
But if you're able to and Ithink one of the presenters on
Tuesday did this they said do Ineed to book a car now to pick
up mum from the airport?
There's no context there,because the phone knew that mum
had sent an email and the flightnumber was there and it was
being tracked through someapplication.
So I think what we're going tosee is that AI is going to be
baked in AI inside, no matterwhat device you use, and
(22:56):
consumers start taking it forgranted, which I think is great,
because then the friction isremoved and then everyone will
be standing up saying I use AIevery day, and I know that I use
AI every day.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
No, andrew, I think you're spot on.
I'm 100% aligned with you onthis.
I do think that number one likeyou said once, it's in all the
devices.
People are going to start usingit a lot more.
But I also think that the OEMswhether it's Microsoft or Apple
or any of the OEMs I think thatthey need to educate consumers
(23:29):
on the different use cases.
I've always seen that people tosome degree, people need to be
told how to use something, right.
You just can't deploy thetechnology and say, hey, figure
it out yourself, you got to showpeople.
There are some.
We call them the early adopters.
Andrew, you were telling me inour last podcast that you took a
picture of your hotel room andyou were working with it on chat
(23:52):
, gpt, right, I can tell youthat that's like one percentile
of the population.
If consumers are educated onwhere you can use it, how you
can use it, people will jumponto it, right?
And then two things one,educate and then give them
access.
I think access is coming byintegrating it within all the
devices.
(24:12):
Next thing would be educationshow a bunch of use cases and,
man, this will take off.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Now, just looking at the podcast and season one,
you've had a variety of reallyinteresting guests.
Was there something that reallysurprised you about something
that the guests told you?
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Oh, almost every episode there was something that
came out that was supersurprising, right Almost every
episode, and I think to somedegree.
I want to say that it's ourmethodology which helps that,
where we unpack things fromfirst principles.
So let me give you an example.
We were doing an episode on AIstrategy with a professor from
(24:47):
UC Berkeley His name is GregLeBlanc, and it was one of the
early episodes we did.
So when we were doing thatepisode and we were unpacking
with him, we came to therealization that, while a lot of
customers are talking about AIstrategy, what they first need
is a data strategy.
That's the foundation, becausetrying to deploy AI in a company
(25:12):
where you don't have any goodaccess to data is like buying a
gasoline car with no access togasoline.
What are you going to do withthat car?
Are you going to push it?
(25:32):
So every company that is lookingto develop a really meaningful
AI strategy first needs to askitself what data do I have
access to, right?
Whether it's for the AI toprocess or for you yourself to
build AI, what data do you haveaccess to?
So even the most simplest usecases, right?
Simplest use cases in humanresources, marketing, finance,
all of it at some point.
(25:54):
If you have to scale the AI andif you have to make it tangible
for your organization, you haveto be able to give it access to
your data right within theorganization.
And if your data is not curated, if it's not in a format that's
easily accessible, then the usecases are still going to be
surface level or not scalablymeaningful.
(26:14):
So I think that kind of insightright we've had almost in every
episode and in every episode Iguess this surprised me In
everything from hallucinationsto grounding, to AI usage, to
how to go into production withAI right.
A lot of people use cases areimportant, but we learned that
(26:36):
85% of AI today is notsuccessful because the failures
are in production, not in thecoming up with use cases.
So, like this, you learn inevery episode and so it's been
amazing.
So I want to say every episodehas given us something new.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I'm glad you mentioned data, because I've
been on about data quality foryears, well before AI was on the
agenda, and everyone's nowsaying we need to do an AI
project and I kind of becauseI'm independent I go, I go oh,
hang on, hang on, here's somethings you need to think about.
And I actually I look at thedata question.
I ask them three things what'sthe data you have, what's the
data you need and what's thedata you want?
(27:11):
And you can see them thinkingand scratching.
I've actually run workshop.
We've actually worked out whatthey and then was like you mean,
we have to get our data inorder before we can possibly
train an AI system, you bet.
So data is always the decidingfactor and sometimes it really
has been a mind shift forclients to say we probably can't
(27:32):
do a project yet because ourdata is everywhere and we don't
know what we want or have whatwe have.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Paying very close attention to your data strategy
is extremely critical today, andalso making sure that your data
is not in silos, right Like asAI gets more and more integrated
.
If you want AI to work acrossyour organization, the data
silos in your organization alsohave to be broken up, so it's
not just access to data, butalso rethinking how data is
(27:58):
structured within yourorganization.
So there's a lot of work thatneeds to be done in this front
and I don't think companies havedone the work yet.
So I think, a lot of work upahead.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
So when you interviewed me on your Unpacked
podcast, what we unpacked wasthe notion that I talk about of
being digitally curious, so Imight throw it back to you how
would you define being digitallycurious and how do you
encourage others to staydigitally curious?
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I think, andrew, by staying digitally curious, you
reframe your mind fromuncertainty and fear to wonder,
right?
If you're curious, you wonderabout the potential of this
technology and the first thingit does for you is it reframed
your mind where you're notfearful of it anymore, but
(28:43):
you're curious about it, right?
The second thing it does foryou is it, to some degree,
curiosity hopefully kills allthe biases right.
Even today, when I talk topeople and I'm like what can we
do with AI in this team or inthis use case, immediately all
the legacy biases come up rightLike oh, this problem is going
(29:05):
to occur, that problem is goingto occur, we can't use it.
You know AI shouldn't be used aparticular way.
Even within our think tankthere's some debate right now on
whether AI should be used as aco-pilot in our own thinking.
But if you're curious, I thinkyou dispel all those myths and
you start thinking about hey,what can I actually do with this
(29:27):
technology that has come out,rather than think about past
legacy bias?
And so I think, first, dispelsfear.
Second is curiosity allows youto remove all biases, right.
And third is it gives you thepermission to fail.
You know, when you're curious,you can go in looking to explore
(29:48):
something without worryingabout the outcome, right, and
that is so liberating, right?
So liberating, it's okay, man.
Okay, I'm curious aboutsomething.
I want to apply it.
You know, do a quick pilot testit, right.
And as long as it's not whatthey call a one-way door and you
know, I think Jeff Bezos saysthat there aren't many one-way
(30:09):
doors, most of it are two-waydoors you can come back and
change your decision, right.
So for me, that's whatcuriosity is about.
It's about helping in all theseways.
And the fourth thing for me,curiosity is about is what you
brought out for me in yourpodcast.
It was so refreshing to hearyour approach, where curiosity
(30:29):
is about, along with the mindset, applying it and learning about
it.
Right, what are you doing todaywith the technology?
That's what curiosity is about,and I love that, and I hope
people listen to our podcastwith Andrew, because he talks
about curiosity not just being amindset, but you talk about it
(30:51):
being a habit, about how you useit, and I thought that was
super refreshing.
So that's my fourth.
Now, my fourth definition ofcuriosity is what you brought to
us.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Well, when people listen to the podcast which I
know they will, because it wasyou asked some fantastic
questions.
I shared with you the sixthings I asked my audience at
the beginning of my keynotes andyou said I'm a five out of six.
So I've got to ask you are youa six now?
Speaker 3 (31:15):
I'm not a full six yet, but all I've got to tell
you is I've started exploring.
I've started exploring digitalcurrency.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Fantastic, you're curious.
I don't even care, you haven'tdone it, you've actually.
That warms my heart because,yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
I sent a note.
My cousin has invested incryptocurrency, so I have sent a
note and, andrew, I think, yeah, if we do another podcast, I'm
sure there will be someinvestment somewhere in
cryptocurrency.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
With all my audiences .
I'm so thrilled.
The same thing happened onWednesday, having lunch after my
talk, and I was bombarded withquestions and I could feel that
I'd injected energy andpermission for them to try new
things.
And gosh, that's why I do whatI do.
I want to change people'smindsets.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
I want to tell you one more thing I did with my
team.
I sent a note to my team askingthem what they are doing in
their everyday life to actiontheir careers right in this
direction.
So it's now a movement, notjust for me but my team also.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
WePRO is a huge consulting company.
You are one of the leaders inthe space.
Maybe you could give us somepredictions about the future of
IT consulting and whether AIwill help or hinder the industry
.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
So I think AI is going to have a huge impact,
andrew, and, like you said, Ilike the word you used enhance.
I think that's what's going tohappen.
I think there's a lot of.
There is definitely some fearon if it'll disrupt, but I think
it's only going to enhance theconsulting industry.
I think what will happen is theoverall industry pie is going
(32:55):
to grow.
You're going to have new typesof services, new types of needs,
like we spoke about data, right, for example, all the
organizations that exist today,in order for them to effectively
use AI, in order for them tohave effective AI strategies,
they all need to rethink thedata and they have to make the
data accessible, break downsilos, bring it together, curate
(33:17):
it, clean it.
So much work needs to be done.
Who's going to do all that work, right?
So I think there's a huge,tremendous growth up ahead for
consulting overall Now, but I dobelieve the nature of
consulting is going to change.
You are going to see consultingwhere AI and humans are going to
be working together right insome form or fashion to help
(33:41):
clients.
It's not going to be purelyhuman deployed.
That, I do believe, will change.
You're going to see a lot moreAI integrated.
But for me it's a positive.
It's only a positive and it'san upside, and I'm really
excited to see how it's going toevolve and change.
And this is not just ITconsulting Everything strategy
consulting, financial consulting, consulting is a broad, broad
(34:04):
industry, and any form of evenactually, if you ask me to
really broaden this outhealthcare, medical field, is
also consulting, right.
What does a doctor do?
You consult a doctor.
So, anywhere in any business,in any use case of humanity
(34:25):
where a human being is helpinganother human being think about
something or work with something, ai is going to play a role,
right.
So that's as broad as you canget.
So it's not just about ITconsulting.
Anybody who's doing any form ofconsulting needs to start
thinking about how to use AI.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
So AI and the future of work.
This is a topic that consumes alot of my thinking.
I'm asked all the time you know, will AI take my job?
My one line response is that AIwon't take your job.
Someone who knows how to use AIwill take your job.
But I've been thinking morephilosophically lately and I've
asked the question I'm going toask you to a number of people.
In fact, I asked this questiontoday to a panel at the AI
(35:02):
Summit in London, and what I'mabout to ask you, I was told,
was a statement.
So let's see, malcolm Gladwellfamously said that you need
10,000 hours of practice andexpertise to become an expert.
So for young graduates, forpeople going through school now
and entering the workforce, ifthey're going to be using some
of these tools to do some of thework that traditionally was
(35:25):
done as part of those 10,000hours, what's going to happen to
them?
How are they going to get their10,000 hours up?
Or is this just not an issue?
Speaker 3 (35:32):
That's a deep question, especially because you
brought in graduates, notcurrent working professionals,
people who are studying.
How do they think about it?
I'll take some basic examplesand we'll see how it applies.
I'm going to brainstorm withyou a little bit.
Right, I don't have a thoughtthrough answer yet, or I don't,
I haven't formed an opinion onthis yet, but let's see if we
can form an opinion as we goalong, and I'm going to ask you
(35:54):
to help me form this opinion.
Calculators came out severaldecades ago and today students
use calculators a lot in theirwork, but I don't think it's
changed their ability to thinkor function.
It's just another tool they'vestarted learning to use.
I think AI is very similartoday.
In today's evolution of AI andgenerative AI, it is another
(36:15):
tool for someone to use, and ifyou can enhance your learning
and maybe the type of processingyou need to do in your mind is
no more reliant on knowing allthe facts right, ai can give you
all the facts Today.
You can ask AI anything andit'll give you the knowledge
right.
Ai can give you all the factsToday.
You can ask AI anything andit'll give you the knowledge
(36:35):
right.
It knows way more than anybodyknows, and so maybe the way you
learn changes, and so I thinkit's really important for
education systems to startlooking at how students can use
AI from grade one, because theway you learn will change and
(36:55):
unfortunately, education theteachers and the learning system
itself needs to figure this outas you go along.
It's like you are building theplane as it's taking off the
runway.
You don't have the time to sitin the shed and build a plane
and take it off right, so theeducation system and students
(37:17):
have to come together to figureout how to use AI.
And definitely students whograduate in 5-10 years from now,
the skills they need and theway they need to think and what
they have to do is going to bedifferent.
It's difficult to forecast itsitting here today, also because
AI itself is going to change.
(37:37):
I spoke about the current stateof AI.
Right, if AI gets more and moreintelligent, then what is the
role of a human versus an AI inthe workforce?
Nobody can predict that today.
It's very difficult to predictit, because the reason it's very
difficult also to predict it isbecause, as humans, what we do
(37:59):
is that, if you think about it,we don't discriminate who's
doing the work for us.
If someone is doing work for us,if the person is a human being
versus AI, if the work qualityis the same as a human being,
you're not going to discriminatewho's doing the work.
As long as someone's doing thework for you, you don't care.
(38:19):
And so that's where I thinkmost of the disruption will
start to happen.
Humans, who are consumers, aregoing to start using AI for
their jobs, and that's how jobswill get displaced.
It's not because companies areputting AI for their jobs, and
that's how jobs will getdisplaced.
It's not because companies areputting AI in the place.
It's because humans are goingto prefer the AI right.
So it's difficult it's reallydifficult to forecast it.
(38:42):
But to the broader point, Ithink that schools, universities
and students have to learn howto use the technology and adapt
with it.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Starting today, we're running out of time, so I'm not
going to give you my answerabout education.
I think there's a whole otherpodcast about how to fix
education and I have a couple ofthoughts, and I think what we
will do is we'll hold it over,we'll keep people dangling.
But just on something you saidat the AI conference today, we
had someone talking about musicand it was a very similar theme.
Would you mind if the music wascreated by a human or an AI?
(39:19):
And it doesn't really matter.
So I think that, gosh, we needto have a further discussion.
We're never going to put itinto this one.
I'm going to ask you my finalquestion before we go to
quickfire and I think we willpause the other stuff for
another podcast, either yours ormine what have you got in store
for season two of your Unpacked?
Speaker 3 (39:28):
podcast.
I'm super excited.
I think there's so manyimportant things to unpack in
season two.
The first thing that we need tounpack is who is going to make
money with AI and how are theygoing to make money?
Right Super important questionhow do you monetize?
Ai is going to be a huge topicand it's going to be a very
relevant topic becausebusinesses are starting to look
(39:49):
at use cases.
But the next question is how doyou make money?
This is what your investors aregoing to ask.
So that's the first thing we'regoing to unpack.
The second thing we're going tounpack in season two is
generative AI businessecosystems.
I strongly believe that to besuccessful in AI, you have to
work as an ecosystem.
You can't do everything on yourown as a company, and so how do
(40:13):
you work in this new world ofecosystems?
What type of ecosystems areavailable for you if you're
building AI products?
I think that's the second thingwe'll unpack, and the third one
I definitely think we're goingto unpack is the continuing
world of regulations andresponsible AI.
I think, world of regulationsand responsible AI.
(40:38):
I think, Andrew, the firstmajor lawsuits or AI issues have
not happened yet, right?
But the minute that happens,the world of regulations,
everything you know alwayshappens right the minute you
have the first major lawsuit orthe first major challenge.
That's when everybody wakes up,and so I think there's going to
be a lot of discussions onresponsible ai.
I I don't see that going awaybecause it's a problem unsolved,
and so season two, we're goingto tackle those three aspects
(41:04):
too.
So, yeah, super excited aboutseason two.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Can't wait for season two.
Okay, it's time for thequickfire round.
I'm going to run you through awhole bunch of questions and
you're going to ask them asquickly as you can.
Your biggest hope for this yearand next that people get
educated on AI.
I wish AI could do all of myContent writing the app you use
most on your phone YouTube.
The best advice you've everreceived.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
If you're faced with a tough situation, think about
what your oldest self willadvise you and do it.
What are you reading?
Speaker 2 (41:31):
at the moment A Thousand Brains.
Who should I invite next ontothe podcast?
Speaker 3 (41:35):
Gregory LeBlanc, uc Berkeley professor.
He has a podcast calledUnsiloed, not Unpacked, and he
would be the most fascinatingguest for you to have on your
podcast.
Next, how do you want to beremembered as someone who
touched a lot of lives in a verypositive manner?
Speaker 2 (41:53):
So, avinash, this is the Digitally Curious podcast.
What three things should ouraudience do today to be more
curious about generative AI?
Speaker 3 (42:01):
The first, one is make sure you spend 10 minutes
on chat GPT every day, tryingsomething new, and there are
thousands of ideas on theinternet.
If you don't have ideas on whatyou can do with it, go read up,
right.
There's thousands of ideas onthe internet.
Give it a shot.
Spend 10 minutes.
(42:21):
And when I say chat GPT, what Imean is any form of AI-based
product, right?
Whether it's chat GPT, davinciLama, it doesn't matter Google.
Spend 10 minutes withgenerative AI every day, right?
(42:43):
The second thing is do a littlebrainstorming with yourself and
genuinely answer the question ofwhat parts of your job possibly
could AI do in a year or two.
That's the second way, secondmost important thing for you to
do, because you need to beprepared for what's coming, and
you'd rather be prepared andevolve right?
And I want to say the thirdthing is just have fun, right.
(43:05):
Like you said, andrew, becurious, have fun, read up on
something AI.
It's okay to have some fun,right?
So, excuse me, read up onsomething AI related, have some
fun and look at the fun sides ofthe tool, right.
Draw with it, paint with it, dosomething with it and music.
Have some fun with it, right,have some fun with it.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
What a fascinating discussion.
We could talk all night.
We can't.
I think there are a whole lotof things for multiple podcasts
in the future.
I do hope we get to speak again, but, more importantly, how can
we find out more about you andyour work If you want to learn
more about our podcast, go toour Think Tank website,
lab45thinktankcom.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
You'll learn a lot about our podcast.
You'll also learn about ThinkTank and what we do.
And if you want to know a lotabout Lab 45, go to lab45.com.
You'll learn about Think Tankand what we do.
And if you want to know a lotabout Lab45, go to
lab45.wiprocom.
You'll learn about ourinnovation lab.
You'll learn about all theplatforms that are coming out.
If you're curious about AI,blockchain, if you're curious
about remote work, lab45 hassome amazing innovations in that
(44:06):
space.
And, of course, if you'recurious about IT consulting as a
whole, go down to webprocom andyou'll learn more.
So yeah, andrew, I'm excited.
I'm hoping people tune in andlisten more to our podcast.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
It's now available on all channels.
Thank you so much for your time.
I really enjoyed it, Thanks.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
Andrew, and I wish you the best.
It's amazing what you're doing.
Keep doing what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Thank you for listening to Digitally Curious.
Andrew's new book, DigitallyCurious your simple guide to
navigating the future of AI andbeyond, is available to
pre-order at digitallycuriousai.
Until next time, we invite youto stay digitally curious.
Welcome to Digitally Curious, a podcast to help you
navigate the future of AI andbeyond.
Your host is world-renownedfuturist and author of Digitally
Curious, Andrew Grill.
Andrew's guests will help youbecome more curious about the
latest tech and what's justaround the corner.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Today's guest is Arvind Ravishankar, general
Manager Think Tank and TechStrategy at Wipro.
He joined Wipro at thebeginning of 2023 and has
founded and built the Think Tankat Lab45.
He works at the intersection ofbusiness technology, customers
and the environment,specialising in strategic vision
and planning.
Over the last decade, he'shelped C-suite executives and
(00:43):
business leaders of Fortune 500companies, start-ups and non and
nonprofits uncover theirstrategic vision.
Welcome, arvind.
Thank you, andrew.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
So good to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Now it's probably fitting to say that I have raced
across town from the AI SummitLondon to be with you here today
.
I heard some very interestingspeakers from large corporates.
Perhaps you could tell us alittle bit more about the think
tank and Lab45.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
corporates.
Perhaps you could tell us alittle bit more about the think
tank and Lab45.
So I'll start with Lab45, theparent organization.
So Lab45 is Wipro's innovationlab.
So think of it similar to likeLab126 at Amazon, where it has a
broad charter to look atemerging technologies, existing
technologies and think about newproducts, new services and new
ways for Wipro to add value inthe world.
(01:27):
Right, that's the broadercharter of Lab45.
And within Lab45, think Tankspecifically focuses on helping
our customers figure out whatthose emerging technologies are.
Where do you deploy it?
What sort of business models doyou have to drive you deploy it
?
What sort of business models doyou have to drive?
And to make this even more real, what we do in the think tank
(01:47):
is, along with those insightsand strategic recommendations,
we also have a startupaccelerator where we can pair
emerging startups in those newtechnology areas with our
customers or interested folks sothat these strategies now
become actionable immediately.
(02:08):
So quite excited about whatwe're doing here and thank you
for the opportunity to talkabout it.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Is there a specific vision you have for the think
tank, our?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
vision is to inspire, educate and enable change
leaders in enterprises.
So the reason why we chosechange leaders as our customer
is because we believe that inthe next decade, leadership is
going to drastically change, andthe type of leaders you're
(02:40):
going to see emerge are onesthat are deeply focused and
rooted in emerging tech, butalso have this broader,
altruistic view of society andthe planet, and so those are the
type of leaders we cater to,and so that's our vision.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
How would you describe a change leader, and
why do you think they'reimportant for humanity?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Wow, I love the second part of the question.
Why are they important forhumanity?
You know, andrew, I think youknow when you look at the
evolution of business andleaders in business.
Leaders in business have notjust matured in terms of
understanding of the businessmodels and how to make money,
(03:24):
but over a span of time, leadershave also matured in terms of
the importance they place oncustomers, the society and the
planet overall.
Right, and this has beengrowing.
So in the 1900s, even up to thelate 70s, being able to make a
lot of money was sort of thepinnacle of a business leader,
(03:46):
right.
And then after that, in the 80s, 90s, 2000 timeframe technology
started playing a reallyimportant role.
So a business leader wassomeone who was able to make
money using technology.
Right, and we know a lot ofthose business leaders today.
In the last decade, there's ahuge movement towards customer
(04:07):
experience, and so in the lastdecade, business leaders have
not just focused on making moneyusing technology, but they
focus a lot on customerexperience, and we believe that
in this next decade, businessleaders will have to equally
focus on sustainability.
So sustainability and theplanet cannot be an afterthought
in your decisions.
(04:28):
It's got to be in the forefrontof your decision making and if
you see leaders like Tim Cook,that's exactly what they're
doing right In decisions Apple'smaking.
Sustainability is front, centerand core.
So that's who we think changeleaders are people who have
evolved to have those fourdisciplines within their
decision-making process.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So part of the initiatives you've got at the
Think Tank is this new podcast,and one of the reasons we're
talking is that I appeared onone of your episodes of the
podcast you've called Unpacked.
First of all, why did you callit Unpacked and how does the
podcast fit into Wipro's broadervision?
Speaker 3 (05:03):
These change leaders we speak about.
One of the things we do believeand actually this is true for
every leader today is that ifyou have to succeed in today's
world, your understanding oftechnology has to be more than
surface level.
You need to understand it atfirst principles, because you're
going to be making reallyimportant decisions, and
especially in the world of AI,where the technology could at
(05:28):
some point have the ability tomake decisions for us.
Unlike other technologies, aicould be autonomous.
It could be something withagency, and so it's really
important for a business leaderto understand the technology.
It's really important for abusiness leader to understand
the technology, and so Unpackedis designed to unpack technical
topics, but in a businesscontext, right.
(05:51):
So we unpack it from itsfundamentals, but we elevate it
to why that's relevant for abusiness leader.
So that's why we think we're alittle different from other
podcasts out there, where it'snot about the technology purely
or the business, but it's theconnection between those
fundamentals of technology andwhat it means to business, and
that's why it's called Unpacked.
We unpack many different topicsand relate it back to business.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Now you said a phrase in that last section that
pricked my ears up firstprinciples.
You know where I'm going withthis.
We're both engineers.
We were both taught in ourfirst engineering session
probably Engineering 101, tothink from first principles.
Now, for our audience who arenot engineers, could you explain
what it means to think fromfirst principles, how you apply
in your business and what's thebenefit of being able to think
(06:38):
about things from the firstprinciples?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Even before my engineering degree.
I have to thank my parents forthis, because they're the ones
who instilled first principlesthinking in me.
Right, and that's where Ilearned the concept.
The way I was taught was thesame using first principles.
So first principles,essentially, is to go down to
the fundamentals of any topicand understand what the
(07:00):
assumptions and the facts areright.
In any given subject that youlearn, there are a set of facts
and there are a set ofassumptions.
And when you go down to firstprinciple and understand the
facts, you can then decide ifyou want to change the
assumptions right.
So, for example, if anytechnology today, when you apply
(07:24):
the technology in your business, there are a set of assumptions
which help you apply thetechnology.
Now, if you purely understandthe technology only at the
assumption level and try toreplicate how it's being applied
somewhere else into your ownbusiness, the odds are that
you're not going to be verysuccessful.
But if you understand thetechnology from its first
(07:44):
principles what is it capable of, what is it not capable of?
Why has this technology evolvedto be what it is Then you can
apply it anywhere in businessand make the right decisions,
and so we've been applying thisto most of our podcasts.
We take a particular topic andwe break it down to those first
(08:05):
principles of what are the facts, what are the myths, what are
the things you need tounderstand so that you can apply
it anywhere you want.
And you know I think to a largedegree, even if you ask me for
an example today, a relevantexample when you look at Elon
Musk and when you read his bio.
Look at Elon Musk and when youread his biography on SpaceX and
(08:27):
what he's done, you know helearned what a rocket is from
first principles.
That's how he learned that, hey, I can possibly redesign this
right and I can make reusablerockets.
If not for that firstprinciples learning, spacex
would not exist.
So I think it's a very powerfultool.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
You know you triggered a memory there.
I thought I had learned firstprinciples at university but
like you, it was my parents, myfather, ron.
I'll give you a quick example.
In fact I put it in my bookDigitally Curious.
We sat down one day I think Iwas six years old, and we got
some little lights, three voltlamps, in a screw.
You screw the lamps in and theyhad terminals on either side.
(09:08):
So we fixed the battery, weconnected them in parallel and
they glowed quite brightly.
Then we collected them inseries and they were dim and my
father said do you know why thatis?
And he explained why it was.
And I remember I had a littlelog book and I wrote down the
output of the experiment.
And they were in parallel.
They glowed brightly, seriesthey glowed less brightly and
explained why.
And at six years old I nowrealize that dad was training me
about first principles.
And so in later life an examplethat may be relevant to some of
(09:30):
our listeners the Wi-Fi is notworking.
I'm the one that always peopleturn to and they say, andrew,
why isn't the Wi-Fi working?
So I go back to firstprinciples.
Go back to the router.
Do we have internet coming in?
Can you access a web page?
All those sort of things thatyou and I take for granted but
in later life, applying them inbusiness.
Why are we selling as manythings as we did?
Well, let's go back to have welooked at customer demand.
(09:52):
Is the product ready for market?
Is it priced properly?
All those sorts of things Ithink you know.
My engineering training hashelped me get out some sticky
situations, but also, I think,has shaped the way.
I think A follow-up question doyou instill critical thinking
and first principles into yourstaff as well, people that you
work with?
Speaker 3 (10:12):
It's such a good question, andrew.
You can't develop a think tankfor the world if you're not
applying that yourself.
And I'll give you some examplesof how in our think tank.
Give you some examples of how,in our think tank, we encourage
all of our staff to go down tofirst principles.
We have a debate program in ourthink tank where once a month we
(10:34):
pick a topic and our teamdivides into two and both teams.
What they do is they prepare anargument for and against the
topic so that teaches them howto look at this from two
different perspectives.
And then at the debate they'retold on a coin toss which side
they're going to take.
(10:54):
And both teams have to debatethe topic for and against.
And we debate based on data, wedebate based on evidence, and
so the critical.
There's no better way tounderstand a subject than
explain it to someone else orconvince someone else of it, and
so this is one way in which wedo it.
We use a debate format.
But even if you look at all thereports we write and when you
(11:19):
look at all the podcasts we doany topic.
We tend to start from thefundamentals and then work our
way up.
It's just how our team isdesigned up on what the world
(11:41):
needs, what the assumptions are,and then we built the
accelerator based on somefundamentals.
So we use it everywhere in ourown team.
We use it everywhere in our ownteam.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
I'm glad you're teaching your people how to
debate.
I started debating at an earlyage as well, probably around 10
years old, and I've actuallydebated things that I don't
believe in.
I've debated the other side andit's such a critical skill.
I think why now I love publicspeaking, I'm so comfortable on
stage is that at that early ageI was putting an argument
forward.
In fact, I remember the firstdebate I was in I was in grade
(12:09):
five, so around 10 years of age.
We were debating grade sevens.
They were 12 years old, and ourtopic was that zoos were good
for society.
And the three of us I think itwas Sue and Ben and I went to
the zoo and basically did ourresearch and had all the
arguments there and we won.
We won against the grade sevensand gosh, that was a good
feeling, not that we just we won, but we could actually
articulate an argument.
(12:29):
And, as I said, I've had timeswhere I've actually debated
things I don't believe in.
And if you can actually putthat argument forward and have a
compelling case, even if it'swrong, I think that's such an
important skill and I think ouryounger generation should be
taught about debating andcritical thinking at an early
age.
Do you agree?
I?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
100% agree, and I think what it does is it does a
couple of things.
It also teaches you to somedegree on how to be passionate
about something, but also how tobe distant enough so that
you're not colored by your ownopinion.
Right, and you're using facts,because if you have to convince
someone else or something, youcan't convince them based on
(13:08):
your emotional outbursts.
You have to have facts, youhave to have data, and so I
think debate teaches you that.
It teaches you how to bepassionate but, at the same time
, rational.
And you know, there's anotherpractice we've instilled, Andrew
, which I think is important,which is we do knowledge sharing
(13:30):
sessions.
So once a week, one of ourauthors, one of the papers, one
of our teams picks up somethingthat they have learned or
they're working on and theyshare it with the entire team.
And the culture we have builtis where anybody can challenge
(13:50):
them.
Anybody can open up a debateand it will not get personal
right and we debate the idea.
We don't debate the individualright, and that's really
important, and so this has alsohelped these knowledge sharing
sessions and this open culture.
It also helps a person buildingtheir ideas, because to have
someone push back helps youthink more critically about that
(14:12):
particular idea.
So I think these things helpand I think this should be, in
fact.
I'll come back to your firstquestion.
I have to confess that the ideaof the debate and starting this
debate within our team, it cameto me by talking to a
10-year-old.
This is 10-year-old, really,really intelligent 10-year-old.
(14:35):
I really love him and he's myfriend's son and when we meet up
we chat, we almost chat liketwo friends, and he was telling
me about the debate club he's inat school and that got me
thinking right.
I'm like, wow, such a cool idea.
And I came in and we ran apilot in our think tank and it
(14:56):
worked out great and so it'sbeen amazing since then.
So, yes, kids can teach you andkids do need to learn how to
debate.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Now in the world at the moment there's so much
uncertainty.
We're not sure what's going on.
40% of the world are going tothe polls.
There could be change ofgovernment.
We've got AI here.
I think you and I are similar.
We actually embrace change, welike change, we like entropy, a
state of uncertainty.
Why do you think it's soimportant to embrace change in a
time of uncertainty?
Is that not counterproductive?
Speaker 3 (15:24):
The change itself is inevitable, right?
I don't think.
The interesting thing is that,as humans, I don't think we have
a choice about change.
The only choice we have is howwe respond to that change.
We really don't have a choiceabout the change itself.
And we know that change isgoing to come, and it's going to
(15:47):
come big in the next decade.
So we can choose to embrace itor we can choose to push back.
And you know there's a.
If you don't mind, I'm going totake a minute to go into
philosophy.
There's a philosopher who talksabout the difference between a
blade of grass and a large tree.
(16:09):
So when a huge gust of windblows, when it blows to the
blade of grass, it does nothingto the blade of grass because of
how flexible it is and how itmoves Versus if there's a large
gust of wind, the odds of a treefalling off are a lot higher
because it resists that wind.
Right Now, I think the forcesaround us in the world are
(16:33):
always larger than who we are asa single human being, and so
being adaptable and embracingchange, I think, is a
fundamental quality that's goingto be even more important.
So, yeah, if you don't embracechange, the odds that the wind
will uproot you is very, veryhigh.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Let's just go back to the podcast.
The first series of the podcastis concentrated on generative
AI.
So, with Apple's recent launchof Apple Intelligence this week,
do you see this as the catalystfor bringing AI to the masses
and driving adoption, which willalso make its way into the
minds of senior leaders?
Speaker 3 (17:05):
very similar to electricity and because it's a
general purpose technology, theodds of it proliferating into
(17:27):
all aspects of our life is veryhigh.
So I think that's why this issuch a big game changer compared
to all the previous AIinventions.
See, ai has been around for awhile, right, andrew?
But when you look at all theprevious breakthroughs in
artificial intelligence, it wasmore narrow right, where AI was
only suitable for oneapplication that has been
developed.
The big breakthrough withgenerative AI is that, for the
(17:49):
first time, you're seeingartificial intelligence that can
be deployed across multipleapplications, which is also why
they're saying that it is thefirst glimpse of AGI, right?
The whole holy grail of AI isartificial general intelligence,
but I don't think we're thereyet, right?
However, it is showing theearly proof that it could be a
(18:11):
general purpose technology.
So, yes, it will proliferate.
Compared to all other AIbreakthroughs in the past, this
one we're going to see a lotmore everywhere we go.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
On Tuesday they had the Worldwide Developer
Conference keynote and unveiledwhat had been leaked weeks
before that Apple were going tointegrate a deeper level of AI
within their devices and alsohave a partnership with OpenAI
for ChatGPT.
I have some reflection, in fact.
I was thrilled.
On Wednesday afternoon the BBCcalled me and said could was
thrilled on Wednesday afternoonthe BBC called me and said could
(18:41):
you appear on the show tonight,live to talk about the
announcement.
So I managed to get a short hiton BBC.
Your initial view of that.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I was thrilled to see the announcement.
I'm so happy to see Apple in theAI game Because one of the
things Apple does so well isApple knows how to make a
technology accessible to theconsumer.
They do that so well and theypay such close attention to user
experience that I'm quiteexcited to experience Apple's
(19:13):
way of bringing AI to the market, to the market right.
And actually, you know, on thatbroader topic, andrew, of AI
coming into our everyday lives,if you know, microsoft also has
released Copilot plus PC, right,they made the announcement and
I think you're going to see alot more of this.
You're going to see a lot moreof integration of artificial
(19:34):
intelligence into computers,into your mobile phone
everywhere, into computers, intoyour mobile phone everywhere,
and I think that's going to beour first usage of mainstream AI
in our everyday life.
The agents, the co-pilots,they're all going to become a
part of our everyday life andthe way it's going to happen is
through the devices we use everyday, whether it's the mobile
(19:56):
phone or the tablet or the PC,whatever those are right.
So not surprised that Applemade the announcement, whatever
those are right.
So not surprised that Applemade the announcement, and I'm
really glad they did, and Ithink, in general, people should
look out for Microsoft, apple,google, all the top providers,
right?
Amazon I'm sure you're going tosee another version of Alexa
pretty soon, right?
(20:16):
So all of these, I think, aregoing to play a pretty critical
role in making us more AIfriendly.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Well, I've been talking about the promise of AI
assistants, or AI agents, for along time and I've been waiting
for all the pieces to slowlycome together and I think on
Tuesday night we got a lotcloser to seeing that and I'll
give you my reflections on why.
So, the things that are goingto be baked in actually iOS 18,
I've now got the developerversion on my phone and my
(20:44):
tablet, so I've actually seen it, but the AI stuff hasn't been
enabled yet.
That's coming.
I think someone suggested betathree for developers.
It might come in, so I can'tplay with it yet, so I'm relying
on what they've said.
But the sort of things that arebuilt in voice transcription I
use Otter for that.
Correcting documents I useGrammarly for that.
Looking at when my flights aredue I use TripIt for that.
(21:07):
So what's going to happen isall these multiple apps that
I've had to log in and give myinformation away and are not
connected.
I'm now going to givepermission and I have to trust
Apple is not going to misusethat.
But it's going to come down tothe one area.
And if I look at my own littleresearch I do every time I do a
keynote I did one on Wednesday.
(21:27):
I get everyone to stand up andI say, oh, stand up if you use
chat GPT, and most people standup.
I then say, stay standing ifyou use it every day, and most
people sit down.
Now I thought, is this justbecause of the audience I was
talking to?
I've done this from CaymanIsland to Luxembourg and I get
the same response every time,and about three weeks ago,
(21:49):
Reuters Institute of Journalismand Oxford University released a
survey for about 14,000 peoplefrom six different countries,
and the US has the highest dailyuse of generative AI, at around
6% to 8%.
Where I am in the UK, 2% to 5%.
So my very unscientific surveywas right and this is why I
think this is a game changer.
People haven't worked out how touse these tools in their daily
(22:12):
life because they have to have apurpose to do that, I think,
whether it's Apple or Google orAmazon, and you bake it into
something you're using every day, that's in your hand and knows
everything about you, I'm withyou.
I think this is a watershedmoment, because the average
consumer actually won't knowthat they're using AI for these
things.
I tell my audience at themoment if you unlock your phone,
(22:32):
you're using AI.
But if you're able to and Ithink one of the presenters on
Tuesday did this they said do Ineed to book a car now to pick
up mum from the airport?
There's no context there,because the phone knew that mum
had sent an email and the flightnumber was there and it was
being tracked through someapplication.
So I think what we're going tosee is that AI is going to be
baked in AI inside, no matterwhat device you use, and
(22:56):
consumers start taking it forgranted, which I think is great,
because then the friction isremoved and then everyone will
be standing up saying I use AIevery day, and I know that I use
AI every day.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
No, andrew, I think you're spot on.
I'm 100% aligned with you onthis.
I do think that number one likeyou said once, it's in all the
devices.
People are going to start usingit a lot more.
But I also think that the OEMswhether it's Microsoft or Apple
or any of the OEMs I think thatthey need to educate consumers
(23:29):
on the different use cases.
I've always seen that people tosome degree, people need to be
told how to use something, right.
You just can't deploy thetechnology and say, hey, figure
it out yourself, you got to showpeople.
There are some.
We call them the early adopters.
Andrew, you were telling me inour last podcast that you took a
picture of your hotel room andyou were working with it on chat
(23:52):
, gpt, right, I can tell youthat that's like one percentile
of the population.
If consumers are educated onwhere you can use it, how you
can use it, people will jumponto it, right?
And then two things one,educate and then give them
access.
I think access is coming byintegrating it within all the
devices.
(24:12):
Next thing would be educationshow a bunch of use cases and,
man, this will take off.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Now, just looking at the podcast and season one,
you've had a variety of reallyinteresting guests.
Was there something that reallysurprised you about something
that the guests told you?
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Oh, almost every episode there was something that
came out that was supersurprising, right Almost every
episode, and I think to somedegree.
I want to say that it's ourmethodology which helps that,
where we unpack things fromfirst principles.
So let me give you an example.
We were doing an episode on AIstrategy with a professor from
(24:47):
UC Berkeley His name is GregLeBlanc, and it was one of the
early episodes we did.
So when we were doing thatepisode and we were unpacking
with him, we came to therealization that, while a lot of
customers are talking about AIstrategy, what they first need
is a data strategy.
That's the foundation, becausetrying to deploy AI in a company
(25:12):
where you don't have any goodaccess to data is like buying a
gasoline car with no access togasoline.
What are you going to do withthat car?
Are you going to push it?
(25:32):
So every company that is lookingto develop a really meaningful
AI strategy first needs to askitself what data do I have
access to, right?
Whether it's for the AI toprocess or for you yourself to
build AI, what data do you haveaccess to?
So even the most simplest usecases, right?
Simplest use cases in humanresources, marketing, finance,
all of it at some point.
(25:54):
If you have to scale the AI andif you have to make it tangible
for your organization, you haveto be able to give it access to
your data right within theorganization.
And if your data is not curated, if it's not in a format that's
easily accessible, then the usecases are still going to be
surface level or not scalablymeaningful.
(26:14):
So I think that kind of insightright we've had almost in every
episode and in every episode Iguess this surprised me In
everything from hallucinationsto grounding, to AI usage, to
how to go into production withAI right.
A lot of people use cases areimportant, but we learned that
(26:36):
85% of AI today is notsuccessful because the failures
are in production, not in thecoming up with use cases.
So, like this, you learn inevery episode and so it's been
amazing.
So I want to say every episodehas given us something new.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I'm glad you mentioned data, because I've
been on about data quality foryears, well before AI was on the
agenda, and everyone's nowsaying we need to do an AI
project and I kind of becauseI'm independent I go, I go oh,
hang on, hang on, here's somethings you need to think about.
And I actually I look at thedata question.
I ask them three things what'sthe data you have, what's the
data you need and what's thedata you want?
(27:11):
And you can see them thinkingand scratching.
I've actually run workshop.
We've actually worked out whatthey and then was like you mean,
we have to get our data inorder before we can possibly
train an AI system, you bet.
So data is always the decidingfactor and sometimes it really
has been a mind shift forclients to say we probably can't
(27:32):
do a project yet because ourdata is everywhere and we don't
know what we want or have whatwe have.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Paying very close attention to your data strategy
is extremely critical today, andalso making sure that your data
is not in silos, right Like asAI gets more and more integrated
.
If you want AI to work acrossyour organization, the data
silos in your organization alsohave to be broken up, so it's
not just access to data, butalso rethinking how data is
(27:58):
structured within yourorganization.
So there's a lot of work thatneeds to be done in this front
and I don't think companies havedone the work yet.
So I think, a lot of work upahead.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
So when you interviewed me on your Unpacked
podcast, what we unpacked wasthe notion that I talk about of
being digitally curious, so Imight throw it back to you how
would you define being digitallycurious and how do you
encourage others to staydigitally curious?
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I think, andrew, by staying digitally curious, you
reframe your mind fromuncertainty and fear to wonder,
right?
If you're curious, you wonderabout the potential of this
technology and the first thingit does for you is it reframed
your mind where you're notfearful of it anymore, but
(28:43):
you're curious about it, right?
The second thing it does foryou is it, to some degree,
curiosity hopefully kills allthe biases right.
Even today, when I talk topeople and I'm like what can we
do with AI in this team or inthis use case, immediately all
the legacy biases come up rightLike oh, this problem is going
(29:05):
to occur, that problem is goingto occur, we can't use it.
You know AI shouldn't be used aparticular way.
Even within our think tankthere's some debate right now on
whether AI should be used as aco-pilot in our own thinking.
But if you're curious, I thinkyou dispel all those myths and
you start thinking about hey,what can I actually do with this
(29:27):
technology that has come out,rather than think about past
legacy bias?
And so I think, first, dispelsfear.
Second is curiosity allows youto remove all biases, right.
And third is it gives you thepermission to fail.
You know, when you're curious,you can go in looking to explore
(29:48):
something without worryingabout the outcome, right, and
that is so liberating, right?
So liberating, it's okay, man.
Okay, I'm curious aboutsomething.
I want to apply it.
You know, do a quick pilot testit, right.
And as long as it's not whatthey call a one-way door and you
know, I think Jeff Bezos saysthat there aren't many one-way
(30:09):
doors, most of it are two-waydoors you can come back and
change your decision, right.
So for me, that's whatcuriosity is about.
It's about helping in all theseways.
And the fourth thing for me,curiosity is about is what you
brought out for me in yourpodcast.
It was so refreshing to hearyour approach, where curiosity
(30:29):
is about, along with the mindset, applying it and learning about
it.
Right, what are you doing todaywith the technology?
That's what curiosity is about,and I love that, and I hope
people listen to our podcastwith Andrew, because he talks
about curiosity not just being amindset, but you talk about it
(30:51):
being a habit, about how you useit, and I thought that was
super refreshing.
So that's my fourth.
Now, my fourth definition ofcuriosity is what you brought to
us.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Well, when people listen to the podcast which I
know they will, because it wasyou asked some fantastic
questions.
I shared with you the sixthings I asked my audience at
the beginning of my keynotes andyou said I'm a five out of six.
So I've got to ask you are youa six now?
Speaker 3 (31:15):
I'm not a full six yet, but all I've got to tell
you is I've started exploring.
I've started exploring digitalcurrency.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Fantastic, you're curious.
I don't even care, you haven'tdone it, you've actually.
That warms my heart because,yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
I sent a note.
My cousin has invested incryptocurrency, so I have sent a
note and, andrew, I think, yeah, if we do another podcast, I'm
sure there will be someinvestment somewhere in
cryptocurrency.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
With all my audiences .
I'm so thrilled.
The same thing happened onWednesday, having lunch after my
talk, and I was bombarded withquestions and I could feel that
I'd injected energy andpermission for them to try new
things.
And gosh, that's why I do whatI do.
I want to change people'smindsets.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
I want to tell you one more thing I did with my
team.
I sent a note to my team askingthem what they are doing in
their everyday life to actiontheir careers right in this
direction.
So it's now a movement, notjust for me but my team also.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
WePRO is a huge consulting company.
You are one of the leaders inthe space.
Maybe you could give us somepredictions about the future of
IT consulting and whether AIwill help or hinder the industry
.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
So I think AI is going to have a huge impact,
andrew, and, like you said, Ilike the word you used enhance.
I think that's what's going tohappen.
I think there's a lot of.
There is definitely some fearon if it'll disrupt, but I think
it's only going to enhance theconsulting industry.
I think what will happen is theoverall industry pie is going
(32:55):
to grow.
You're going to have new typesof services, new types of needs,
like we spoke about data, right, for example, all the
organizations that exist today,in order for them to effectively
use AI, in order for them tohave effective AI strategies,
they all need to rethink thedata and they have to make the
data accessible, break downsilos, bring it together, curate
(33:17):
it, clean it.
So much work needs to be done.
Who's going to do all that work, right?
So I think there's a huge,tremendous growth up ahead for
consulting overall Now, but I dobelieve the nature of
consulting is going to change.
You are going to see consultingwhere AI and humans are going to
be working together right insome form or fashion to help
(33:41):
clients.
It's not going to be purelyhuman deployed.
That, I do believe, will change.
You're going to see a lot moreAI integrated.
But for me it's a positive.
It's only a positive and it'san upside, and I'm really
excited to see how it's going toevolve and change.
And this is not just ITconsulting Everything strategy
consulting, financial consulting, consulting is a broad, broad
(34:04):
industry, and any form of evenactually, if you ask me to
really broaden this outhealthcare, medical field, is
also consulting, right.
What does a doctor do?
You consult a doctor.
So, anywhere in any business,in any use case of humanity
(34:25):
where a human being is helpinganother human being think about
something or work with something, ai is going to play a role,
right.
So that's as broad as you canget.
So it's not just about ITconsulting.
Anybody who's doing any form ofconsulting needs to start
thinking about how to use AI.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
So AI and the future of work.
This is a topic that consumes alot of my thinking.
I'm asked all the time you know, will AI take my job?
My one line response is that AIwon't take your job.
Someone who knows how to use AIwill take your job.
But I've been thinking morephilosophically lately and I've
asked the question I'm going toask you to a number of people.
In fact, I asked this questiontoday to a panel at the AI
(35:02):
Summit in London, and what I'mabout to ask you, I was told,
was a statement.
So let's see, malcolm Gladwellfamously said that you need
10,000 hours of practice andexpertise to become an expert.
So for young graduates, forpeople going through school now
and entering the workforce, ifthey're going to be using some
of these tools to do some of thework that traditionally was
(35:25):
done as part of those 10,000hours, what's going to happen to
them?
How are they going to get their10,000 hours up?
Or is this just not an issue?
Speaker 3 (35:32):
That's a deep question, especially because you
brought in graduates, notcurrent working professionals,
people who are studying.
How do they think about it?
I'll take some basic examplesand we'll see how it applies.
I'm going to brainstorm withyou a little bit.
Right, I don't have a thoughtthrough answer yet, or I don't,
I haven't formed an opinion onthis yet, but let's see if we
can form an opinion as we goalong, and I'm going to ask you
(35:54):
to help me form this opinion.
Calculators came out severaldecades ago and today students
use calculators a lot in theirwork, but I don't think it's
changed their ability to thinkor function.
It's just another tool they'vestarted learning to use.
I think AI is very similartoday.
In today's evolution of AI andgenerative AI, it is another
(36:15):
tool for someone to use, and ifyou can enhance your learning
and maybe the type of processingyou need to do in your mind is
no more reliant on knowing allthe facts right, ai can give you
all the facts Today.
You can ask AI anything andit'll give you the knowledge
right.
Ai can give you all the factsToday.
You can ask AI anything andit'll give you the knowledge
(36:35):
right.
It knows way more than anybodyknows, and so maybe the way you
learn changes, and so I thinkit's really important for
education systems to startlooking at how students can use
AI from grade one, because theway you learn will change and
(36:55):
unfortunately, education theteachers and the learning system
itself needs to figure this outas you go along.
It's like you are building theplane as it's taking off the
runway.
You don't have the time to sitin the shed and build a plane
and take it off right, so theeducation system and students
(37:17):
have to come together to figureout how to use AI.
And definitely students whograduate in 5-10 years from now,
the skills they need and theway they need to think and what
they have to do is going to bedifferent.
It's difficult to forecast itsitting here today, also because
AI itself is going to change.
(37:37):
I spoke about the current stateof AI.
Right, if AI gets more and moreintelligent, then what is the
role of a human versus an AI inthe workforce?
Nobody can predict that today.
It's very difficult to predictit, because the reason it's very
difficult also to predict it isbecause, as humans, what we do
(37:59):
is that, if you think about it,we don't discriminate who's
doing the work for us.
If someone is doing work for us,if the person is a human being
versus AI, if the work qualityis the same as a human being,
you're not going to discriminatewho's doing the work.
As long as someone's doing thework for you, you don't care.
(38:19):
And so that's where I thinkmost of the disruption will
start to happen.
Humans, who are consumers, aregoing to start using AI for
their jobs, and that's how jobswill get displaced.
It's not because companies areputting AI for their jobs, and
that's how jobs will getdisplaced.
It's not because companies areputting AI in the place.
It's because humans are goingto prefer the AI right.
So it's difficult it's reallydifficult to forecast it.
(38:42):
But to the broader point, Ithink that schools, universities
and students have to learn howto use the technology and adapt
with it.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Starting today, we're running out of time, so I'm not
going to give you my answerabout education.
I think there's a whole otherpodcast about how to fix
education and I have a couple ofthoughts, and I think what we
will do is we'll hold it over,we'll keep people dangling.
But just on something you saidat the AI conference today, we
had someone talking about musicand it was a very similar theme.
Would you mind if the music wascreated by a human or an AI?
(39:19):
And it doesn't really matter.
So I think that, gosh, we needto have a further discussion.
We're never going to put itinto this one.
I'm going to ask you my finalquestion before we go to
quickfire and I think we willpause the other stuff for
another podcast, either yours ormine what have you got in store
for season two of your Unpacked?
Speaker 3 (39:28):
podcast.
I'm super excited.
I think there's so manyimportant things to unpack in
season two.
The first thing that we need tounpack is who is going to make
money with AI and how are theygoing to make money?
Right Super important questionhow do you monetize?
Ai is going to be a huge topicand it's going to be a very
relevant topic becausebusinesses are starting to look
(39:49):
at use cases.
But the next question is how doyou make money?
This is what your investors aregoing to ask.
So that's the first thing we'regoing to unpack.
The second thing we're going tounpack in season two is
generative AI businessecosystems.
I strongly believe that to besuccessful in AI, you have to
work as an ecosystem.
You can't do everything on yourown as a company, and so how do
(40:13):
you work in this new world ofecosystems?
What type of ecosystems areavailable for you if you're
building AI products?
I think that's the second thingwe'll unpack, and the third one
I definitely think we're goingto unpack is the continuing
world of regulations andresponsible AI.
I think, world of regulationsand responsible AI.
(40:38):
I think, Andrew, the firstmajor lawsuits or AI issues have
not happened yet, right?
But the minute that happens,the world of regulations,
everything you know alwayshappens right the minute you
have the first major lawsuit orthe first major challenge.
That's when everybody wakes up,and so I think there's going to
be a lot of discussions onresponsible ai.
I I don't see that going awaybecause it's a problem unsolved,
and so season two, we're goingto tackle those three aspects
(41:04):
too.
So, yeah, super excited aboutseason two.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Can't wait for season two.
Okay, it's time for thequickfire round.
I'm going to run you through awhole bunch of questions and
you're going to ask them asquickly as you can.
Your biggest hope for this yearand next that people get
educated on AI.
I wish AI could do all of myContent writing the app you use
most on your phone YouTube.
The best advice you've everreceived.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
If you're faced with a tough situation, think about
what your oldest self willadvise you and do it.
What are you reading?
Speaker 2 (41:31):
at the moment A Thousand Brains.
Who should I invite next ontothe podcast?
Speaker 3 (41:35):
Gregory LeBlanc, uc Berkeley professor.
He has a podcast calledUnsiloed, not Unpacked, and he
would be the most fascinatingguest for you to have on your
podcast.
Next, how do you want to beremembered as someone who
touched a lot of lives in a verypositive manner?
Speaker 2 (41:53):
So, avinash, this is the Digitally Curious podcast.
What three things should ouraudience do today to be more
curious about generative AI?
Speaker 3 (42:01):
The first, one is make sure you spend 10 minutes
on chat GPT every day, tryingsomething new, and there are
thousands of ideas on theinternet.
If you don't have ideas on whatyou can do with it, go read up,
right.
There's thousands of ideas onthe internet.
Give it a shot.
Spend 10 minutes.
(42:21):
And when I say chat GPT, what Imean is any form of AI-based
product, right?
Whether it's chat GPT, davinciLama, it doesn't matter Google.
Spend 10 minutes withgenerative AI every day, right?
(42:43):
The second thing is do a littlebrainstorming with yourself and
genuinely answer the question ofwhat parts of your job possibly
could AI do in a year or two.
That's the second way, secondmost important thing for you to
do, because you need to beprepared for what's coming, and
you'd rather be prepared andevolve right?
And I want to say the thirdthing is just have fun, right.
(43:05):
Like you said, andrew, becurious, have fun, read up on
something AI.
It's okay to have some fun,right?
So, excuse me, read up onsomething AI related, have some
fun and look at the fun sides ofthe tool, right.
Draw with it, paint with it, dosomething with it and music.
Have some fun with it, right,have some fun with it.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
What a fascinating discussion.
We could talk all night.
We can't.
I think there are a whole lotof things for multiple podcasts
in the future.
I do hope we get to speak again, but, more importantly, how can
we find out more about you andyour work If you want to learn
more about our podcast, go toour Think Tank website,
lab45thinktankcom.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
You'll learn a lot about our podcast.
You'll also learn about ThinkTank and what we do.
And if you want to know a lotabout Lab 45, go to lab45.com.
You'll learn about Think Tankand what we do.
And if you want to know a lotabout Lab45, go to
lab45.wiprocom.
You'll learn about ourinnovation lab.
You'll learn about all theplatforms that are coming out.
If you're curious about AI,blockchain, if you're curious
about remote work, lab45 hassome amazing innovations in that
(44:06):
space.
And, of course, if you'recurious about IT consulting as a
whole, go down to webprocom andyou'll learn more.
So yeah, andrew, I'm excited.
I'm hoping people tune in andlisten more to our podcast.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
It's now available on all channels.
Thank you so much for your time.
I really enjoyed it, Thanks.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
Andrew, and I wish you the best.
It's amazing what you're doing.
Keep doing what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Thank you for listening to Digitally Curious.
Andrew's new book, DigitallyCurious your simple guide to
navigating the future of AI andbeyond, is available to
pre-order at digitallycuriousai.
Until next time, we invite youto stay digitally curious.
Popular Podcasts
1. Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
2. Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
3. Crime Junkie
If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people.