July 17, 2025 • 23 mins
Longing for simpler times when fresh milk magically appeared on your doorstep? Join us on "Dairy Tales: The Hilarious History of the American Milkman," a brand-new episode of Dirt Nap City that delivers a hearty laugh along with a fascinating look at a bygone era.
In this episode, we uncork the surprising story of the American milkman, from his early 20th-century heyday to his eventual, almost complete disappearance. We'll explore the ingenious (and sometimes absurd) innovations that made daily milk delivery a household staple, delving into the charming quirks of milk bottles, the iconic milk carton, and the unique bond between customer and dairyman.
Discover why the milkman was once an indispensable part of American life. We'll uncover how these dedicated delivery heroes navigated everything from rutted paths on a horse carrying milk to the societal shifts of the post-war boom. Ever wondered about the rise of the "milk chute" or the ingenious ways milkmen kept your dairy products fresh in all weather? We've got the scoop, served with a splash of good humor.
But just as every good thing must come to an end, so too did the milkman's reign. What led to his decline? Was it the rise of the supermarket, the invention of longer-lasting milk cartons, or simply a shift in consumer habits? We'll explore the comedic (and sometimes tragic) factors that sealed the milkman's fate, leaving us with nostalgic memories and a few lingering questions.
This episode isn't just a history lesson; it's a rollicking journey through Americana, packed with amusing anecdotes, forgotten facts, and plenty of laughs. Whether you remember the clinking of glass bottles on your porch or you're simply curious about a peculiar slice of the past, this episode is udderly fantastic!
Drop us a quick text and we’ll reply in the next episode!
Dirt Nap City is the podcast about the most interesting dead people in history.
Subscribe and listen to learn about people you've heard of, but don't know much about.
Someday we'll all live in Dirt Nap City, so you should probably go ahead and meet the neighbors!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Alex, what do you do ifyou're thirsty? I
get something to drink. Yeah.
Where do you get it?
Well, I think you've asked methis before, and you wanted me
to say the drinking fountain.
Yeah. But if you're home, ifyou're home, like, let's say we
were just taking a little break,and you went to get something to
drink. Yeah, I go to therefrigerator. Refrigerator.
(00:27):
Okay, and what? What are youroptions? What do you got in
there?
Oh, probably water. Get somesoft drinks. Get some lemonade,
some beer. Is that all seemslike you're missing a few
options. Oh,pretty much covers it in my
house. Milk, yeah. What aboutmilk? I love a glass of milk. I
(00:49):
know you do. I know you do. Andyou know, back in the day, you
couldn't just go, as a matter offact, way back in the day, you'd
have to go out to the barn andsqueeze some teats to get that
milk right into the mouth. Surepeople. Did people do that? They
just lay down? Yeah. Did they?
Well, I don't know if they evenhave to lay down. You could just
(01:10):
bend it upward and just kind ofit squirts with a lot of
pressure. Okay, senior, have youever milked a cow? Not into my
mouth? Well, you're missing outyou have, yo, yeah, yeah, I've
milked the cow and tried the oldtry it right out, unpasteurized,
as they say. I'm not going to dothat, but it's nice that you've
(01:31):
done it. Well, I want to talkabout milk men, the guys that
brought us our milk back in theday, or brought guys their
milks, bring your milk and sleepwith your wife. I
thought that was the postman.
Well, your mileage may vary, Iguess. Well, the milkman was
(01:52):
kind of came up. You know, thething that caused the milkman is
also the thing that kind ofkilled the milkman, or
eliminated the milkman. Theoriginally, people had their own
cows. Most people had their owncows, or they lived somewhere
where a cow was right next door,you know, just down the road a
little ways, and people sharedtheir milk. And you could trade
(02:13):
some alfalfa for some milk, orsome some of your barley for
some milk. But in inin the days that people started
to become more urban, theystarted to need milk delivered,
because everybody drank milkback in the day.
Why is that?
Well, I think it was consideredto be healthy. I think it was
(02:38):
easily accessible. I think itwas healthy. It was kind of one
of the healthy choices. Therewasn't any Coke, there wasn't
any sprite, there wasn't, youknow, you couldn't just go to
the convenience store and get amountain dew or a Red Bull, but
it's easier to get milk thanever, and I'm the only person I
know that drinks it.
Well, let's go back. We'll talkabout modern times. But I first
(02:59):
of all wanted to run twopossible titles for this episode
by you and see what you think.
So this is a dirt nap city deadend about milk men. And if
you're not familiar with deadends, we talk about things that
used to exist but don't anymore,kind of in the in the fashion of
things that are dead, right,right? And milkman is dead.
(03:19):
Milkman is something you've beenfamiliar with for 40 years. Been
into them for a long time, butwe'll get to that as well. But
right now we're talking aboutthe title of this podcast. So
here's option, a got milk notanymore, the rise and fall of
the milkman? Oh, wow. Okay,okay. And here's number two.
(03:40):
What else you got? The utterlyridiculous, the utterly
ridiculous history of milkdelivery. What do you think? I
think the second one was writtenby chat GPT.
I'm trying to use more SEOfriendly titles. I don't know if
you've noticed this about ourpodcast, but I kind of did some
(04:01):
evaluations, and it wasrecommended by by the AI
overlords that we use moresearch friendly titles. So I
think I'm going with got milknot anymore, the rise and fall
of the milkman rather than whatwas. What were milkman.
Let's talk about back in the1700s
Now this was a time when peoplehad cows, you know, had cows
(04:26):
around, and could go get milk ifthey wanted to. But then this
industrialization started tohappen, and cows were less of a
common thing. Houses weregetting smaller and closer
together, and there wasn't landfor cows, and people didn't have
barns anymore. So around 1785that up in the northeast,
(04:48):
newly minted United States,there was people that started to
deliver milk in Vermont actuallyis where it all started. And
they.
Would deliver it in barrels.
Now, these milk men would drivearound on a horse drawn carriage
that had barrels full of milk,or maybe just one, and you
(05:09):
didn't even have a containerthat it came in. You basically
had to come out and dip yourcontainer into the man's milk to
get the milk. Oh, so they don't,you don't buy the barrel. No,
the barrel was for the wholetown or for their whole route.
You know, they might, they mightdeliver, they might deliver to
15 houses, and everybody gotjust a little bit of this
(05:32):
barrel. And it wasn't cold. Itwas not cold. No, there was no
way to keep it cold, really.
You got to drink it out. It outpretty soon, kale or your jug or
your jar, and you would dip itin and pull out the milk you
wanted for the day, and youbetter drink it pretty quick.
Yeah, it was not pasteurized.
But then a major thing happened,and that is the glass milk
(05:56):
bottle, which was invented. It'sactually called the Lester milk
jar, which was invented in 1879and this was a glass bottle. And
there's a lot of discussiononline. I kind of went deep into
this about the taste of milk outof a glass jar versus out of a
(06:16):
cardboard or plastic carton. Doyou have any opinion on that way
better out of a glass, out of acold glass? Yeah, do you think
that's it? The temperature?
No, I think the glass is asmoother. Goes down smoother
too. Yeah, for sure, doesn't,doesn't leave like you don't get
(06:37):
that sort of cardboard taste orwax taste that you might get.
No, just, just crisp. Yeah.
Well, that's glass jar wasinvented, you know, by it was
called the Lester milk jar, soI'm gonna assume it was a guy
named Lester that invented it.
But the problem was, it didn'thave a cap. So about five years
(06:57):
later, that seems like like, along time to go from the bottle
to the cap.
Yeah, yeah, this bottle. I mean,it took him a long time to
invent the bottle, right? Westarted in 1785 and it was
almost 100 years before theystarted doing bottles. So the
cap, the cap, was the next biginnovation. And this was a guy
(07:18):
named Thatcher, Henry Thatcherthat came up with the bottle
cap, and this meant that themilk men could be a lot more
flexible in their delivery. Itwas a lot easier to deliver a
whole bunch of small glassbottles than it was to deliver
in a giant jug, where you hadpeople coming out and dipping in
it, and it was more sterile too.
So what would happen is, youwould place your order with the
(07:41):
milkman. You know, you mightplace it for the week or the
month or however long, and themilkman would show up the next
day and bring it, and he mightcome up to your porch a lot of
times they would. And a lot ofhouses back then had little
boxes. Have you ever seen one ofthese boxes for milk
Yes, yes. I believe mygrandparents house had one of
(08:05):
those. Yeah, okay, was that inMichigan? Yeah, yeah. So these
would be little insulated boxeswhere he would leave the leave
the bottles, and then they wouldsometimes just leave cash on the
on the porch for the milkman.
Sometimes they had an accountwhere they would pay, you know,
weekly or monthly or whatever.
(08:27):
But then a really cool thinghappened, where the milk men
would start tocollect the bottles and
sterilize the bottles and thenreuse them. So this is, like the
original recycling that wasgoing on. Great idea. Yeah,
yeah. But you know, this kind ofwent on for quite a while, until
(08:48):
World War Two, ish, 1930s 1940sand can you guess some of the
things that started to get inthe way of milk, milk. Men
delivering their milk now, ofcourse, they also went with
technology. They had trucks now,or cars instead of, instead of
these carts that they used touse. So they were trying to
(09:09):
progress, but they couldn't keepup, because after World War Two,
a lot of things happened. Anyany thoughts, I'm guessing
people started living furtheraway from each other. So the you
had to you so you withoutrefrigeration. That seemed to be
a problem. I think you said partof it there refrigeration.
People could refrigerate things.
(09:30):
So instead of having to havefresh milk every day or every
two days, they could now getmilk once a week and put it in a
refrigerator. So that was, thatwas a big thing also, I guess,
to your point about them livingfurther away. People started
getting cars after World WarTwo, so they could now drive to
the general market, the grocerystore, and the grocery store had
(09:54):
refrigeration, so now they werekeeping their milk for a while,
and people were buying it fromthere. And so the.
World, milk men kind of gotsqueezed out. I would especially
in hotter climates, like likeHouston. I can't imagine how
long milk would last justsitting outside, outside before
you picked it up. You've heardthe term ice box, right? A lot
(10:15):
of times they would have theseice boxes where they would place
the ice in a box that wasinsulated a lot of times with
sawdust, and the milkman wouldleave it in there, and it would
stay. It would it would keep. Ifit was in the icebox, I would
imagine, you know, the ice wouldbegin to melt, but, but for some
reason, I've heard that sawdustis a really good insulator. Hmm,
(10:37):
wouldn't want to put that ice ina in a Shirley Temple or a gin
and tonic after Ted sawdust init? No, no. So, you know, things
like meat and milk and otherthings that had a shorter shelf
life became more popular becauseof the refrigeration that was
available to people, and alsobecause people could actually
(11:00):
drive to a supermarket and pickthese things up where it was
refrigerated, put it into a bagor an ice box, bring it home,
put it into their refrigeratorand keep it for a longer time.
But along with these otherthings, another thing that
changed was the glass bottles,so they started to
(11:22):
use waxed paper, these littlecardboard cartons, as they
called them. And you know whatthey called these things? The
they called them Gable boxes.
Never heard that term. Well, canyou imagine the shape of an old
milk carton, where it had thelittle point on top, and the
(11:44):
thing up on top that you wouldopen, it
looked like a gable of abuilding, right? Oh, yeah, I
guess it did. And then theopening where you would actually
pull the where youwould pull the two pieces of
cardboard apart, rip them andthen create that little spout
that was called a gable loop.
(12:07):
Was a big innovation, underrateddesign, yes, yes, very much. So,
I mean, it was self contained.
It was all one material, oncethey figured that out. I mean,
the gable loop was a was anindustry changer in the 1950s
and now today, you don't reallysee those as much now. No, do
you think the plastic think, ifyou give a kid a milk carton
(12:30):
today, they would know how toopen? Oh, that's a great
question, because yeah, I don'tknow that they would. I mean,
they probably have better chanceof dialing a phone than they do
opening a milk carton with agable. Yeah, nowadays,
although doesn't water come incardboard? Oh yeah, there are
some water companies that aredoing cardboard because it's
(12:54):
more sustainable and, you know,lighter weight and stuff like
that. But I don't know if thosehave Gable loops. Or if those
have a, like, a little foilpiece that you punch a straw
with, kind of like a Capri Sun,there's, there's lots of, I
mean, I'll say drink containertechnology is really a
fascinating subject,often overlooked, but when you
(13:14):
really think about it, yeah, howdo you get that out of there in
a sustainable way. But a gableloop with a milk carton is not
an obvious thing if you don'tknow how to do it. No. Usually
has a usually has an arrow thatsays, open here. But all you
have to do is teach a kid onceand they've mastered it. I find
opening those things verysatisfying, like that little,
(13:35):
that little spout that comes outof it. It It is very and it's
very, like you said, it's a veryinnovative design, because it
seals itself back up. It's veryhygienic. It makes it very easy
to pour, right? If you'repouring out of a milk carton
that has one of those triangularGable loops, yeah, I forgot
about the reseal part of it.
(13:57):
You're right, yeah, yeah. Theydidn't need caps anymore. As a
matter of fact, that's one ofthe problems with a lot of
modern milk cartons. Even thegable cartons that have the
gable, they'll have a plasticcap on the side, right? The milk
we get has that, yeah, it'slike, it's like, Why? Why did
you add this extra plastic? Itjust makes it harder to recycle.
(14:18):
It makes and those things canactually have you ever had one
that's like, really hard toopen. You have to get a pair of
pliers or something to open thetable one or the plastic the
plastic cap can sometimes bereally hard to twist. Oh no, I
haven't had that, but you'reright. Why would they go through
the trouble of a gable designonly to put us a spout on it or
(14:39):
a plastic cap, because peopledon't know how to use the gable
design the cable loop,we've dumbed down too much,
yeah, well, I got good news.
Like a lot of our dead ends,this one might make a comeback.
There is a milkman Renaissancegoing on. There's companies from
New York.
(15:00):
To California. Top of the Top ofthe morning farms, there's the
Manhattan milk companies, andwhat they do is they actually
contract dairy delivery fromseveral different dairy farms in
an area with trucks, and you paya premium. But would you do
that? I mean, as a milk fan,would you actually maybe have
(15:20):
fresh milk delivered. Um, youknow, I don't know how much I've
I don't know if I've ever hadfresh milk, so I don't know if,
how much better it would be.
See, here's the thing here,here's, here's the reason people
do it. A, they know where it'scoming from. B, they know how
long it's been out, becausethese companies tout that as
part of their service. As amatter of fact, with some of
(15:41):
these, they guarantee you teethto mouth in less than 24 hours.
I don't know if that'simportant, or maybe I should say
utter, utter to utter, them outbefore in less than 20 hours. I
don't know how important thatis, honestly. I mean, I'd have
to, I'd have to do a taste test.
I could probably be won over,yeah, if it tasted the same to
(16:02):
me, I don't know if there's anyvalue in that. Tea to mouth, 24
hours, utter to lips.
That sounds worse. Well, it'sit's also,
along with this milkmanRenaissance, there's also the
comeback of the glass milkbottles. People are starting to
realize that now we sometimesbuy fair life milk. Have you
(16:26):
ever had that? Yes, it's prettygood. And I think, I think you
can get that in a glasscontainer.
I don't know.
I mean, would you pay an extradollar for a gallon of milk for
a glass container? No, becauseone out of every 200 times I
would drop it and it wouldshatter and there would be glass
(16:47):
all over my phone. Okay, okay.
You like the unbreakability ofthe Yeah, we got rid of a lot of
glass of bottles back in theday, and we don't have to walk
around with glass on our feetanymore. But you're right. From
sustainability perspective, it'sprobably better than all the
plastic we have. Well, the lastthing I want to talk about on
this is the counter, counter tothe milkman. Do you know? Do you
(17:10):
know who the counter to themilkman is in history?
As soon as I say it, you'llyou'll realize, what do you mean
by counter? The the fair, thefair gender of milk man, because
it is milk. Man, right? Milkmen, milk made, milk maids,
right, right. Now you don't havemilk maid was, I don't they
(17:34):
actually didn't just deliver.
They milked the cows, theychurned the butter, they made
the cheese. They were just kindof Dairy Queens, if you will. So
I would pay for that for amilkmaid, absolutely. So a
milkmaid was a pretty commonsight back in the time of these
original dairy farms. But forsome reason, men kind of took
(17:57):
over. I guess part of it had todo with men being more
more likely to drive the horsesor more likely to drive the
motorized vehicle to deliver themilk. I don't know, but I want
to tell you about some famousmilk maids in the world. There
was Abigail Adams, who was thewife of John Adams, sure she was
(18:20):
actually a dairy farmer, livedon a dairy farm, grew up on a
dairy farm, and did all thosethings. She was, she was, she
was very comfortable around cowsand milk and cheese and butter
and all that stuff. I'm verycomfortable around milk and
cheese and butter. Well, maybeyou're a milkmaid.
(18:42):
There's goodness though. I like,I like the idea of bringing back
milk maids, yeah. I think thatwould be a great Halloween
costume. Yeah. I mean, men couldbe milk maids too. We can't
just, yeah, and women could bemilk men,
right? Women could be milkdelivery people.
MDPs, so there was ADA F Howey,who was famous for being one of
(19:07):
the first elected Wisconsinpeople, women, elected to the
Wisconsin State Board ofagriculture, and she was also a
dairy farmer in the late 1800sand she revolutionized dairy
practices by focusing oncleanliness. Back in the day,
they didn't realize thatdirtiness, cow poop and dirty
hands and whatever else spreaddisease. But yeah, out of how he
(19:30):
did, Clara Steele, she was asuccessful commercial dairy
farmer who built an empire ofcheese and butter,
establishing five dairies inCalifornia in the 1800s
you ever heard of her? No. Andthen there was Anna Baldwin, who
(19:51):
took the idea of hygienicmilking to the next level with
her hygienic glove milker, whichwas a.
A thing that I guess went overthe utter and made it cleaner.
I'm not exactly sure, but itbasically took hygiene to the
next level. And then there's awoman named Anna Burns who was a
(20:13):
novelist, a writer. Have youheard of her?
Maybe she wrote a she wrote abook called milkman, but the
milkman was actually a stalker.
Oh no, I've never heard of Ihaven't heard of that 1958 this
guy named Arthur raidbaugh, ormaybe radebaugh, I'm not sure.
R, A, D, E, B, A, U, G, H, RAIDBA. He had a comic strip, a
(20:34):
weekly comic strip called,closer than we think you ever
heard of that one? No, well,this was sort of a future,
future looking one, and heenvisioned robotic milk men
delivering milk,kind of going around with little
antennas sticking out of theirheads. And then he had another
(20:55):
one, where milk men woulddeliver the milk via jet pack.
Okay, that's not gonna happen.
Maybe drones, except, except.
Again, glass would be a terribleidea for that. Milk isn't that
hard to get anymore. We'retrying to solve a problem that
doesn't exist here. Well, again,if you want to know where it's
(21:15):
from, if you want to know howlong it's been around, like how
quickly it came from the cow.
You keep saying where it's from.
Where else could it be from?
Though? No, no. I mean local.
You want local milk. If you wantto support your local farmer and
your local dairy farm and putmoney back into your local
economy, you'd want it from yourarea, wouldn't you? Wouldn't you
(21:36):
like milk that was made in SugarLand, or milk that was made in
wherever the hell you live,Clear Lake I
don't live in, clearly Pearland,whatever, Houston area. Do you
want milk from New York City?
All I gotta say is, get a rope.
I don't really.
(21:59):
It's not like honey. Where it Imean, maybe it is, I don't know.
It could be, actually. And areyou talking about allergies?
How, if you, if you eat honeyfrom a region, you become immune
to the maybe it is, yeah, yeah,but it is. I mean, we do have
lactose intolerance these dayswhere we we probably always had
(22:19):
it. We didn't know that peoplethat was the problem. Well,
here's to here's to the themilkman and the milkmaids of
your We miss you, and we do hopeyou come back and bring back the
glasses, the glass containersand the
hillbilly punk rock that youused to play.
(22:40):
I ran over my neighbor fishingCamaro. Fishing Camaro down
there all got papers like, nofun, Neo fishing Camaro and no,
it starts to match. So if I haveto run you down, please don't
leave us scratch. I ran oversome old lady one night at the
county fair, and I didn't getarrested because my dad's a bear
fishing Camaro, fishing Camaro.
(23:03):
Donuts on your lawn, fishingCamaro, fishing
Camaro. Tony, Orlando and Dawn.
When I drive too fast to kids,they all spin and cuss because
I've got a pitching Camaro, andthey have to ride the bus. So
you better getout of my way when I'm going
through youryard, cause I've got a pitching
Camaro, an Exxon credit card,pitching Camaro. Pitching
(23:25):
Camaro. Amen, where you headed?
Kitchen Camaro. Kitchen Camaro.
Arm. Jump on. I'm ready. You.
Alex, what do you do ifyou're thirsty? I
get something to drink. Yeah.
Where do you get it?
Well, I think you've asked methis before, and you wanted me
to say the drinking fountain.
Yeah. But if you're home, ifyou're home, like, let's say we
were just taking a little break,and you went to get something to
drink. Yeah, I go to therefrigerator. Refrigerator.
(00:27):
Okay, and what? What are youroptions? What do you got in
there?
Oh, probably water. Get somesoft drinks. Get some lemonade,
some beer. Is that all seemslike you're missing a few
options. Oh,pretty much covers it in my
house. Milk, yeah. What aboutmilk? I love a glass of milk. I
(00:49):
know you do. I know you do. Andyou know, back in the day, you
couldn't just go, as a matter offact, way back in the day, you'd
have to go out to the barn andsqueeze some teats to get that
milk right into the mouth. Surepeople. Did people do that? They
just lay down? Yeah. Did they?
Well, I don't know if they evenhave to lay down. You could just
(01:10):
bend it upward and just kind ofit squirts with a lot of
pressure. Okay, senior, have youever milked a cow? Not into my
mouth? Well, you're missing outyou have, yo, yeah, yeah, I've
milked the cow and tried the oldtry it right out, unpasteurized,
as they say. I'm not going to dothat, but it's nice that you've
(01:31):
done it. Well, I want to talkabout milk men, the guys that
brought us our milk back in theday, or brought guys their
milks, bring your milk and sleepwith your wife. I
thought that was the postman.
Well, your mileage may vary, Iguess. Well, the milkman was
(01:52):
kind of came up. You know, thething that caused the milkman is
also the thing that kind ofkilled the milkman, or
eliminated the milkman. Theoriginally, people had their own
cows. Most people had their owncows, or they lived somewhere
where a cow was right next door,you know, just down the road a
little ways, and people sharedtheir milk. And you could trade
(02:13):
some alfalfa for some milk, orsome some of your barley for
some milk. But in inin the days that people started
to become more urban, theystarted to need milk delivered,
because everybody drank milkback in the day.
Why is that?
Well, I think it was consideredto be healthy. I think it was
(02:38):
easily accessible. I think itwas healthy. It was kind of one
of the healthy choices. Therewasn't any Coke, there wasn't
any sprite, there wasn't, youknow, you couldn't just go to
the convenience store and get amountain dew or a Red Bull, but
it's easier to get milk thanever, and I'm the only person I
know that drinks it.
Well, let's go back. We'll talkabout modern times. But I first
(02:59):
of all wanted to run twopossible titles for this episode
by you and see what you think.
So this is a dirt nap city deadend about milk men. And if
you're not familiar with deadends, we talk about things that
used to exist but don't anymore,kind of in the in the fashion of
things that are dead, right,right? And milkman is dead.
(03:19):
Milkman is something you've beenfamiliar with for 40 years. Been
into them for a long time, butwe'll get to that as well. But
right now we're talking aboutthe title of this podcast. So
here's option, a got milk notanymore, the rise and fall of
the milkman? Oh, wow. Okay,okay. And here's number two.
(03:40):
What else you got? The utterlyridiculous, the utterly
ridiculous history of milkdelivery. What do you think? I
think the second one was writtenby chat GPT.
I'm trying to use more SEOfriendly titles. I don't know if
you've noticed this about ourpodcast, but I kind of did some
(04:01):
evaluations, and it wasrecommended by by the AI
overlords that we use moresearch friendly titles. So I
think I'm going with got milknot anymore, the rise and fall
of the milkman rather than whatwas. What were milkman.
Let's talk about back in the1700s
Now this was a time when peoplehad cows, you know, had cows
(04:26):
around, and could go get milk ifthey wanted to. But then this
industrialization started tohappen, and cows were less of a
common thing. Houses weregetting smaller and closer
together, and there wasn't landfor cows, and people didn't have
barns anymore. So around 1785that up in the northeast,
(04:48):
newly minted United States,there was people that started to
deliver milk in Vermont actuallyis where it all started. And
they.
Would deliver it in barrels.
Now, these milk men would drivearound on a horse drawn carriage
that had barrels full of milk,or maybe just one, and you
(05:09):
didn't even have a containerthat it came in. You basically
had to come out and dip yourcontainer into the man's milk to
get the milk. Oh, so they don't,you don't buy the barrel. No,
the barrel was for the wholetown or for their whole route.
You know, they might, they mightdeliver, they might deliver to
15 houses, and everybody gotjust a little bit of this
(05:32):
barrel. And it wasn't cold. Itwas not cold. No, there was no
way to keep it cold, really.
You got to drink it out. It outpretty soon, kale or your jug or
your jar, and you would dip itin and pull out the milk you
wanted for the day, and youbetter drink it pretty quick.
Yeah, it was not pasteurized.
But then a major thing happened,and that is the glass milk
(05:56):
bottle, which was invented. It'sactually called the Lester milk
jar, which was invented in 1879and this was a glass bottle. And
there's a lot of discussiononline. I kind of went deep into
this about the taste of milk outof a glass jar versus out of a
(06:16):
cardboard or plastic carton. Doyou have any opinion on that way
better out of a glass, out of acold glass? Yeah, do you think
that's it? The temperature?
No, I think the glass is asmoother. Goes down smoother
too. Yeah, for sure, doesn't,doesn't leave like you don't get
(06:37):
that sort of cardboard taste orwax taste that you might get.
No, just, just crisp. Yeah.
Well, that's glass jar wasinvented, you know, by it was
called the Lester milk jar, soI'm gonna assume it was a guy
named Lester that invented it.
But the problem was, it didn'thave a cap. So about five years
(06:57):
later, that seems like like, along time to go from the bottle
to the cap.
Yeah, yeah, this bottle. I mean,it took him a long time to
invent the bottle, right? Westarted in 1785 and it was
almost 100 years before theystarted doing bottles. So the
cap, the cap, was the next biginnovation. And this was a guy
(07:18):
named Thatcher, Henry Thatcherthat came up with the bottle
cap, and this meant that themilk men could be a lot more
flexible in their delivery. Itwas a lot easier to deliver a
whole bunch of small glassbottles than it was to deliver
in a giant jug, where you hadpeople coming out and dipping in
it, and it was more sterile too.
So what would happen is, youwould place your order with the
(07:41):
milkman. You know, you mightplace it for the week or the
month or however long, and themilkman would show up the next
day and bring it, and he mightcome up to your porch a lot of
times they would. And a lot ofhouses back then had little
boxes. Have you ever seen one ofthese boxes for milk
Yes, yes. I believe mygrandparents house had one of
(08:05):
those. Yeah, okay, was that inMichigan? Yeah, yeah. So these
would be little insulated boxeswhere he would leave the leave
the bottles, and then they wouldsometimes just leave cash on the
on the porch for the milkman.
Sometimes they had an accountwhere they would pay, you know,
weekly or monthly or whatever.
(08:27):
But then a really cool thinghappened, where the milk men
would start tocollect the bottles and
sterilize the bottles and thenreuse them. So this is, like the
original recycling that wasgoing on. Great idea. Yeah,
yeah. But you know, this kind ofwent on for quite a while, until
(08:48):
World War Two, ish, 1930s 1940sand can you guess some of the
things that started to get inthe way of milk, milk. Men
delivering their milk now, ofcourse, they also went with
technology. They had trucks now,or cars instead of, instead of
these carts that they used touse. So they were trying to
(09:09):
progress, but they couldn't keepup, because after World War Two,
a lot of things happened. Anyany thoughts, I'm guessing
people started living furtheraway from each other. So the you
had to you so you withoutrefrigeration. That seemed to be
a problem. I think you said partof it there refrigeration.
People could refrigerate things.
(09:30):
So instead of having to havefresh milk every day or every
two days, they could now getmilk once a week and put it in a
refrigerator. So that was, thatwas a big thing also, I guess,
to your point about them livingfurther away. People started
getting cars after World WarTwo, so they could now drive to
the general market, the grocerystore, and the grocery store had
(09:54):
refrigeration, so now they werekeeping their milk for a while,
and people were buying it fromthere. And so the.
World, milk men kind of gotsqueezed out. I would especially
in hotter climates, like likeHouston. I can't imagine how
long milk would last justsitting outside, outside before
you picked it up. You've heardthe term ice box, right? A lot
(10:15):
of times they would have theseice boxes where they would place
the ice in a box that wasinsulated a lot of times with
sawdust, and the milkman wouldleave it in there, and it would
stay. It would it would keep. Ifit was in the icebox, I would
imagine, you know, the ice wouldbegin to melt, but, but for some
reason, I've heard that sawdustis a really good insulator. Hmm,
(10:37):
wouldn't want to put that ice ina in a Shirley Temple or a gin
and tonic after Ted sawdust init? No, no. So, you know, things
like meat and milk and otherthings that had a shorter shelf
life became more popular becauseof the refrigeration that was
available to people, and alsobecause people could actually
(11:00):
drive to a supermarket and pickthese things up where it was
refrigerated, put it into a bagor an ice box, bring it home,
put it into their refrigeratorand keep it for a longer time.
But along with these otherthings, another thing that
changed was the glass bottles,so they started to
(11:22):
use waxed paper, these littlecardboard cartons, as they
called them. And you know whatthey called these things? The
they called them Gable boxes.
Never heard that term. Well, canyou imagine the shape of an old
milk carton, where it had thelittle point on top, and the
(11:44):
thing up on top that you wouldopen, it
looked like a gable of abuilding, right? Oh, yeah, I
guess it did. And then theopening where you would actually
pull the where youwould pull the two pieces of
cardboard apart, rip them andthen create that little spout
that was called a gable loop.
(12:07):
Was a big innovation, underrateddesign, yes, yes, very much. So,
I mean, it was self contained.
It was all one material, oncethey figured that out. I mean,
the gable loop was a was anindustry changer in the 1950s
and now today, you don't reallysee those as much now. No, do
you think the plastic think, ifyou give a kid a milk carton
(12:30):
today, they would know how toopen? Oh, that's a great
question, because yeah, I don'tknow that they would. I mean,
they probably have better chanceof dialing a phone than they do
opening a milk carton with agable. Yeah, nowadays,
although doesn't water come incardboard? Oh yeah, there are
some water companies that aredoing cardboard because it's
(12:54):
more sustainable and, you know,lighter weight and stuff like
that. But I don't know if thosehave Gable loops. Or if those
have a, like, a little foilpiece that you punch a straw
with, kind of like a Capri Sun,there's, there's lots of, I
mean, I'll say drink containertechnology is really a
fascinating subject,often overlooked, but when you
(13:14):
really think about it, yeah, howdo you get that out of there in
a sustainable way. But a gableloop with a milk carton is not
an obvious thing if you don'tknow how to do it. No. Usually
has a usually has an arrow thatsays, open here. But all you
have to do is teach a kid onceand they've mastered it. I find
opening those things verysatisfying, like that little,
(13:35):
that little spout that comes outof it. It It is very and it's
very, like you said, it's a veryinnovative design, because it
seals itself back up. It's veryhygienic. It makes it very easy
to pour, right? If you'repouring out of a milk carton
that has one of those triangularGable loops, yeah, I forgot
about the reseal part of it.
(13:57):
You're right, yeah, yeah. Theydidn't need caps anymore. As a
matter of fact, that's one ofthe problems with a lot of
modern milk cartons. Even thegable cartons that have the
gable, they'll have a plasticcap on the side, right? The milk
we get has that, yeah, it'slike, it's like, Why? Why did
you add this extra plastic? Itjust makes it harder to recycle.
(14:18):
It makes and those things canactually have you ever had one
that's like, really hard toopen. You have to get a pair of
pliers or something to open thetable one or the plastic the
plastic cap can sometimes bereally hard to twist. Oh no, I
haven't had that, but you'reright. Why would they go through
the trouble of a gable designonly to put us a spout on it or
(14:39):
a plastic cap, because peopledon't know how to use the gable
design the cable loop,we've dumbed down too much,
yeah, well, I got good news.
Like a lot of our dead ends,this one might make a comeback.
There is a milkman Renaissancegoing on. There's companies from
New York.
(15:00):
To California. Top of the Top ofthe morning farms, there's the
Manhattan milk companies, andwhat they do is they actually
contract dairy delivery fromseveral different dairy farms in
an area with trucks, and you paya premium. But would you do
that? I mean, as a milk fan,would you actually maybe have
(15:20):
fresh milk delivered. Um, youknow, I don't know how much I've
I don't know if I've ever hadfresh milk, so I don't know if,
how much better it would be.
See, here's the thing here,here's, here's the reason people
do it. A, they know where it'scoming from. B, they know how
long it's been out, becausethese companies tout that as
part of their service. As amatter of fact, with some of
(15:41):
these, they guarantee you teethto mouth in less than 24 hours.
I don't know if that'simportant, or maybe I should say
utter, utter to utter, them outbefore in less than 20 hours. I
don't know how important thatis, honestly. I mean, I'd have
to, I'd have to do a taste test.
I could probably be won over,yeah, if it tasted the same to
(16:02):
me, I don't know if there's anyvalue in that. Tea to mouth, 24
hours, utter to lips.
That sounds worse. Well, it'sit's also,
along with this milkmanRenaissance, there's also the
comeback of the glass milkbottles. People are starting to
realize that now we sometimesbuy fair life milk. Have you
(16:26):
ever had that? Yes, it's prettygood. And I think, I think you
can get that in a glasscontainer.
I don't know.
I mean, would you pay an extradollar for a gallon of milk for
a glass container? No, becauseone out of every 200 times I
would drop it and it wouldshatter and there would be glass
(16:47):
all over my phone. Okay, okay.
You like the unbreakability ofthe Yeah, we got rid of a lot of
glass of bottles back in theday, and we don't have to walk
around with glass on our feetanymore. But you're right. From
sustainability perspective, it'sprobably better than all the
plastic we have. Well, the lastthing I want to talk about on
this is the counter, counter tothe milkman. Do you know? Do you
(17:10):
know who the counter to themilkman is in history?
As soon as I say it, you'llyou'll realize, what do you mean
by counter? The the fair, thefair gender of milk man, because
it is milk. Man, right? Milkmen, milk made, milk maids,
right, right. Now you don't havemilk maid was, I don't they
(17:34):
actually didn't just deliver.
They milked the cows, theychurned the butter, they made
the cheese. They were just kindof Dairy Queens, if you will. So
I would pay for that for amilkmaid, absolutely. So a
milkmaid was a pretty commonsight back in the time of these
original dairy farms. But forsome reason, men kind of took
(17:57):
over. I guess part of it had todo with men being more
more likely to drive the horsesor more likely to drive the
motorized vehicle to deliver themilk. I don't know, but I want
to tell you about some famousmilk maids in the world. There
was Abigail Adams, who was thewife of John Adams, sure she was
(18:20):
actually a dairy farmer, livedon a dairy farm, grew up on a
dairy farm, and did all thosethings. She was, she was, she
was very comfortable around cowsand milk and cheese and butter
and all that stuff. I'm verycomfortable around milk and
cheese and butter. Well, maybeyou're a milkmaid.
(18:42):
There's goodness though. I like,I like the idea of bringing back
milk maids, yeah. I think thatwould be a great Halloween
costume. Yeah. I mean, men couldbe milk maids too. We can't
just, yeah, and women could bemilk men,
right? Women could be milkdelivery people.
MDPs, so there was ADA F Howey,who was famous for being one of
(19:07):
the first elected Wisconsinpeople, women, elected to the
Wisconsin State Board ofagriculture, and she was also a
dairy farmer in the late 1800sand she revolutionized dairy
practices by focusing oncleanliness. Back in the day,
they didn't realize thatdirtiness, cow poop and dirty
hands and whatever else spreaddisease. But yeah, out of how he
(19:30):
did, Clara Steele, she was asuccessful commercial dairy
farmer who built an empire ofcheese and butter,
establishing five dairies inCalifornia in the 1800s
you ever heard of her? No. Andthen there was Anna Baldwin, who
(19:51):
took the idea of hygienicmilking to the next level with
her hygienic glove milker, whichwas a.
A thing that I guess went overthe utter and made it cleaner.
I'm not exactly sure, but itbasically took hygiene to the
next level. And then there's awoman named Anna Burns who was a
(20:13):
novelist, a writer. Have youheard of her?
Maybe she wrote a she wrote abook called milkman, but the
milkman was actually a stalker.
Oh no, I've never heard of Ihaven't heard of that 1958 this
guy named Arthur raidbaugh, ormaybe radebaugh, I'm not sure.
R, A, D, E, B, A, U, G, H, RAIDBA. He had a comic strip, a
(20:34):
weekly comic strip called,closer than we think you ever
heard of that one? No, well,this was sort of a future,
future looking one, and heenvisioned robotic milk men
delivering milk,kind of going around with little
antennas sticking out of theirheads. And then he had another
(20:55):
one, where milk men woulddeliver the milk via jet pack.
Okay, that's not gonna happen.
Maybe drones, except, except.
Again, glass would be a terribleidea for that. Milk isn't that
hard to get anymore. We'retrying to solve a problem that
doesn't exist here. Well, again,if you want to know where it's
(21:15):
from, if you want to know howlong it's been around, like how
quickly it came from the cow.
You keep saying where it's from.
Where else could it be from?
Though? No, no. I mean local.
You want local milk. If you wantto support your local farmer and
your local dairy farm and putmoney back into your local
economy, you'd want it from yourarea, wouldn't you? Wouldn't you
(21:36):
like milk that was made in SugarLand, or milk that was made in
wherever the hell you live,Clear Lake I
don't live in, clearly Pearland,whatever, Houston area. Do you
want milk from New York City?
All I gotta say is, get a rope.
I don't really.
(21:59):
It's not like honey. Where it Imean, maybe it is, I don't know.
It could be, actually. And areyou talking about allergies?
How, if you, if you eat honeyfrom a region, you become immune
to the maybe it is, yeah, yeah,but it is. I mean, we do have
lactose intolerance these dayswhere we we probably always had
(22:19):
it. We didn't know that peoplethat was the problem. Well,
here's to here's to the themilkman and the milkmaids of
your We miss you, and we do hopeyou come back and bring back the
glasses, the glass containersand the
hillbilly punk rock that youused to play.
(22:40):
I ran over my neighbor fishingCamaro. Fishing Camaro down
there all got papers like, nofun, Neo fishing Camaro and no,
it starts to match. So if I haveto run you down, please don't
leave us scratch. I ran oversome old lady one night at the
county fair, and I didn't getarrested because my dad's a bear
fishing Camaro, fishing Camaro.
(23:03):
Donuts on your lawn, fishingCamaro, fishing
Camaro. Tony, Orlando and Dawn.
When I drive too fast to kids,they all spin and cuss because
I've got a pitching Camaro, andthey have to ride the bus. So
you better getout of my way when I'm going
through youryard, cause I've got a pitching
Camaro, an Exxon credit card,pitching Camaro. Pitching
(23:25):
Camaro. Amen, where you headed?
Kitchen Camaro. Kitchen Camaro.
Arm. Jump on. I'm ready. You.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.